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Difference between revisions of "Architecture Council/Minutes January 15 2009"
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− | | | + | | Thursday [[January 15, 2009]] at [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2009&month=1&day=15&hour=16&min=0&sec=0 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin]<br>[[Image:Html.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Canada/Toronto HTML] | [[Image:Ical.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics iCal] |
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| Dial-in: | | Dial-in: | ||
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| '''DSDP:''' | | '''DSDP:''' | ||
− | | Doug Gaff | + | | <strike>Doug Gaff</strike> |
| Martin Oberhuber | | Martin Oberhuber | ||
|- | |- | ||
| '''Eclipse:''' | | '''Eclipse:''' | ||
− | | | + | | Philippe Mulet (drop off early) |
| Mike Wilson | | Mike Wilson | ||
|- | |- | ||
| '''Modeling:''' | | '''Modeling:''' | ||
| Richard Gronback | | Richard Gronback | ||
− | | Ed Merks | + | | <strike>Ed Merks</strike> |
|- | |- | ||
| '''RT:''' | | '''RT:''' | ||
| Jeff McAffer | | Jeff McAffer | ||
− | | Jochen Krause | + | | <strike>Jochen Krause</strike> |
|- | |- | ||
| '''STP:''' | | '''STP:''' | ||
− | | Oisin Hurley | + | | <strike>Oisin Hurley</strike> |
| <strike>Antoine Toulme</strike> | | <strike>Antoine Toulme</strike> | ||
|- | |- | ||
| '''Technology:''' | | '''Technology:''' | ||
− | | Gunnar Wagenknecht | + | | <strike>Gunnar Wagenknecht</strike> |
− | | Wayne Beaton | + | | <strike>Wayne Beaton</strike> |
|- | |- | ||
| '''Tools:''' | | '''Tools:''' | ||
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| '''TPTP:''' | | '''TPTP:''' | ||
| <strike>Eugene Chan</strike> | | <strike>Eugene Chan</strike> | ||
− | | <strike>Oliver Cole</strike> | + | | <strike>Oliver Cole</strike><br/>Joanna Kubasta |
|- | |- | ||
| '''WTP:''' | | '''WTP:''' | ||
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| Dave Carver | | Dave Carver | ||
|} | |} | ||
− | * '''Signed-up:''' John Arthorne, Boris Bokowski | + | * '''Signed-up:''' John Arthorne, Boris Bokowski, Sven Efftinge, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Bernd Kolb (to proxy Karsten Schmidt), Andrew Overholt, Doug Schaefer, Darin Swanson, Tom Watson, David Williams, Darin Wright, Gary Xue |
* '''Regrets:''' Eugene Chan, Doug Clarke, Oliver Cole, Adrian Colyer, John Graham, Wenfeng Li, Mike Milinkovich, Mary Ruddy, Georg Schmidt, Mark Vandenbrink | * '''Regrets:''' Eugene Chan, Doug Clarke, Oliver Cole, Adrian Colyer, John Graham, Wenfeng Li, Mike Milinkovich, Mary Ruddy, Georg Schmidt, Mark Vandenbrink | ||
− | + | * '''No-Show:''' Chris Aniszczyk, Bjorn Freeman-Benson, Naci Dai, Doug Gaff, Neil Hauge, Oisin Hurley, Jochen Krause, Ed Merks, Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Gunnar Wagenknecht | |
− | + | ||
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− | * '''No-Show:''' | + | |
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== Agenda / Notes == | == Agenda / Notes == | ||
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* Last meeting [[Architecture Council/Minutes December 16 2008#Action Items]] | * Last meeting [[Architecture Council/Minutes December 16 2008#Action Items]] | ||
* '''All Mentors''' to enter their mentorship info into the [http://portal.eclipse.org Portal] | * '''All Mentors''' to enter their mentorship info into the [http://portal.eclipse.org Portal] | ||
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* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave Carver''' to have a look at the [[Architecture Council]] Wiki page and visually improve it for users/consumers | * [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave Carver''' to have a look at the [[Architecture Council]] Wiki page and visually improve it for users/consumers | ||
+ | ** Concept was to organize wiki pages and add [[Category:Architecture Council]] categories: Allows us to tag other (non-AC) pages such that they show up under AC | ||
+ | ** Always visible on bottom of the page; want to move up and make it more prominent? - It's very prominent on the main Wiki homepage now | ||
+ | ** Better organize the AC homepage: collect feedback... '''AI Dave''' send links to other Wiki pages for review to check which ones we might want to emulate. | ||
+ | ** Everyone can make suggestions / create mock-up pages for review. | ||
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave Carver''', '''Chris''' to add links for ''Project Proposal Template'' and ''Pulling Eclipse Scripts'' into the meeting notes, see [[Architecture Council/Minutes December 16 2008#New Topics]] | * [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave Carver''', '''Chris''' to add links for ''Project Proposal Template'' and ''Pulling Eclipse Scripts'' into the meeting notes, see [[Architecture Council/Minutes December 16 2008#New Topics]] | ||
* Still open items moved to [[#Action Items]] | * Still open items moved to [[#Action Items]] | ||
=== Administrative === | === Administrative === | ||
− | * '''New Members''': Linda Chan (Actuate, Bay Area), Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member, itemis, northern Germany, TMF Lead) | + | * '''New Members''': Linda Chan (Actuate, Bay Area, DTP), Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member, itemis, northern Germany, TMF Lead) |
* New '''Dormant Members''' - see [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]] | * New '''Dormant Members''' - see [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]] | ||
* New [[Architecture Council/Templates]] | * New [[Architecture Council/Templates]] | ||
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** '''AI Everyone''' review the Wiki pages and change anything unclear. Feel free to edit the Wiki! | ** '''AI Everyone''' review the Wiki pages and change anything unclear. Feel free to edit the Wiki! | ||
** '''AI Andrew Overholt''' to chair next month's call (Feb 12) | ** '''AI Andrew Overholt''' to chair next month's call (Feb 12) | ||
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* '''IP/Legal Discussions:''' IPZilla closed group is up, pending {{bug|214133}} for accessing it through the Portal | * '''IP/Legal Discussions:''' IPZilla closed group is up, pending {{bug|214133}} for accessing it through the Portal | ||
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* '''PMC Representation''' on the AC - backup delegates, 1 attendee required | * '''PMC Representation''' on the AC - backup delegates, 1 attendee required | ||
* '''Efficient Communications''' | * '''Efficient Communications''' | ||
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*** It's interesting that some others (IBM'ers) have responded privately to Martin (John A, Darin S, Tom W, Dave W, Kevin H) | *** It's interesting that some others (IBM'ers) have responded privately to Martin (John A, Darin S, Tom W, Dave W, Kevin H) | ||
** Note the [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/maillist.rss RSS Feed for the AC Mailing List]: helpful for referencing previous postings | ** Note the [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/maillist.rss RSS Feed for the AC Mailing List]: helpful for referencing previous postings | ||
+ | ** <font color="green">'''RESOLUTION:'''</font> AC is happy with current communication patterns. | ||
=== News from the EMO & Councils === | === News from the EMO & Councils === | ||
− | * December Board Minutes | + | * December [http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/minutes.php Official Board Minutes] not yet done |
** Doug Gaff [http://eclipse-committer-reps.blogspot.com/2008/12/december-2008-board-meeting.html summarizes the december board meeting] on the Committer Reps Blog | ** Doug Gaff [http://eclipse-committer-reps.blogspot.com/2008/12/december-2008-board-meeting.html summarizes the december board meeting] on the Committer Reps Blog | ||
− | |||
* '''Mik: Are the EPP distributions "products"?''' Board says No. No clear actions out of that, but it should be reflected on the download pages. | * '''Mik: Are the EPP distributions "products"?''' Board says No. No clear actions out of that, but it should be reflected on the download pages. | ||
** McQ: It doesn't matter what we label the EPP packages as... users just treat them as such, especially wrt JDT | ** McQ: It doesn't matter what we label the EPP packages as... users just treat them as such, especially wrt JDT | ||
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* McQ - '''[http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg00556.html Eclipse Adoption] and API Deprecation Policy''' | * McQ - '''[http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg00556.html Eclipse Adoption] and API Deprecation Policy''' | ||
** Platform clients have problems updating to newer Eclipse versions, in spite of remaining binary API compatible. Do others see this too? | ** Platform clients have problems updating to newer Eclipse versions, in spite of remaining binary API compatible. Do others see this too? | ||
+ | ** How can inevitable migration effort (e.g. due to fixing semantic errors in API) be eased? | ||
+ | *** Tagging change / tools to detect change | ||
+ | ** How can we help clients become API-clean, and how can we help protect investment where API cleanliness is impossible? | ||
+ | *** Tools to report usage of non-API even in closed source | ||
+ | *** Allow clients to contribute unittests for code where they (have to) leverage internal non-API, in order to detect breakage early | ||
+ | ** How can we help clients detect usage of obsoleted features, and migrate to the new replacement feature more easily? | ||
+ | *** API Deprecation Policy / Soft deprecation tag | ||
** Is it reasonable to expect API-clean clients? | ** Is it reasonable to expect API-clean clients? | ||
** Dave Williams: Semantic differences are hard; in WTP, there are tools for scanning code and reporting back; would like to see PDE API Tools move into usage scanning as well | ** Dave Williams: Semantic differences are hard; in WTP, there are tools for scanning code and reporting back; would like to see PDE API Tools move into usage scanning as well | ||
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*** Jeff: Setup another call for the deprecation thing? Start up simple and start a scanner for all of Eclipse.org | *** Jeff: Setup another call for the deprecation thing? Start up simple and start a scanner for all of Eclipse.org | ||
*** Darin: API Tooling currently working on scanners to discover references between plugins, generating report or dumping into a DB | *** Darin: API Tooling currently working on scanners to discover references between plugins, generating report or dumping into a DB | ||
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=== Old items === | === Old items === | ||
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* (''old'') '''Mik''' to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list (committed until end January) | * (''old'') '''Mik''' to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list (committed until end January) | ||
* (''old'') '''Mike''' to inform everyone when the IPZilla Legal Closed Group is ready to use | * (''old'') '''Mike''' to inform everyone when the IPZilla Legal Closed Group is ready to use | ||
− | * '''Everyone''' review/edit the various [[Architecture Council]] wiki pages, particularly the FAQ and Links collection. Add questions to the FAQ. | + | * (''old'') '''All PMC's''' to encourage incubating grandfathered projects ask for a mentor (by [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community&component=Architecture%20Council filing an AC bug]) |
+ | * '''Dave Carver''' send links to Wiki pages which we might want to emulate for the AC Homepage | ||
+ | * '''Mik''' to propose a date for demoing the Mylyn "report a bug" feature | ||
+ | * '''Everyone''' review/edit the various [[Architecture Council]] wiki pages, particularly the [[Architecture Council/Ask the AC]] Panel/FAQ and [[Architecture Council/Links collection]]. Add questions to the FAQ. | ||
+ | * '''Martin''' to schedule [[Architecture Council/Minutes API Deprecation 20080122]] call | ||
+ | * '''Martin''' to schedule [[Architecture Council/F2F EclipseCon 2009]] - Sunday 5pm-6pm | ||
== Next Meeting == | == Next Meeting == | ||
+ | * [[Architecture Council/Minutes API Deprecation 20080122]] call on Thursday, Jan 22 | ||
* [[Architecture Council]] call on [[Architecture Council/Minutes February 12 2008|Thursday, February 12]] | * [[Architecture Council]] call on [[Architecture Council/Minutes February 12 2008|Thursday, February 12]] |
Revision as of 14:16, 15 January 2009
Meeting Title: | Architecture Council Monthly Meeting |
Date & Time: | Thursday January 15, 2009 at 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin HTML | iCal |
Dial-in: | (+1) 613.287.8000 (Ottawa and international) or 866.362.7064 (toll-free North America) passcode 464440# |
Contents
Attendees
- Use the Doodle Attendance Tracking Poll to confirm attendance or send regrets for this meeting. See this message for how to use it. All AC Members are invited.
- PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
BIRT: | |
Gary Xue |
DTP: | Brian Fitzpatrick | Linda Chan |
DSDP: | |
Martin Oberhuber |
Eclipse: | Philippe Mulet (drop off early) | Mike Wilson |
Modeling: | Richard Gronback | |
RT: | Jeff McAffer | |
STP: | |
|
Technology: | |
|
Tools: | |
|
TPTP: | |
Joanna Kubasta |
WTP: | Tim deBoer | Dave Carver |
- Signed-up: John Arthorne, Boris Bokowski, Sven Efftinge, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Bernd Kolb (to proxy Karsten Schmidt), Andrew Overholt, Doug Schaefer, Darin Swanson, Tom Watson, David Williams, Darin Wright, Gary Xue
- Regrets: Eugene Chan, Doug Clarke, Oliver Cole, Adrian Colyer, John Graham, Wenfeng Li, Mike Milinkovich, Mary Ruddy, Georg Schmidt, Mark Vandenbrink
- No-Show: Chris Aniszczyk, Bjorn Freeman-Benson, Naci Dai, Doug Gaff, Neil Hauge, Oisin Hurley, Jochen Krause, Ed Merks, Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Gunnar Wagenknecht
Agenda / Notes
- Feel free to edit, but not during the call!
Review of Action Items
- Last meeting Architecture Council/Minutes December 16 2008#Action Items
- All Mentors to enter their mentorship info into the Portal
- Dave Carver to have a look at the Architecture Council Wiki page and visually improve it for users/consumers
- Concept was to organize wiki pages and add categories: Allows us to tag other (non-AC) pages such that they show up under AC
- Always visible on bottom of the page; want to move up and make it more prominent? - It's very prominent on the main Wiki homepage now
- Better organize the AC homepage: collect feedback... AI Dave send links to other Wiki pages for review to check which ones we might want to emulate.
- Everyone can make suggestions / create mock-up pages for review.
- Dave Carver, Chris to add links for Project Proposal Template and Pulling Eclipse Scripts into the meeting notes, see Architecture Council/Minutes December 16 2008#New Topics
- Still open items moved to #Action Items
Administrative
- New Members: Linda Chan (Actuate, Bay Area, DTP), Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member, itemis, northern Germany, TMF Lead)
- New Dormant Members - see Architecture Council/Members and Mentors
- New Architecture Council/Templates
- AC Wiki pages are fairly complete now. Martin dumping his knowledge/E-Mail templates for others to use.
- AI Everyone review the Wiki pages and change anything unclear. Feel free to edit the Wiki!
- AI Andrew Overholt to chair next month's call (Feb 12)
- IP/Legal Discussions: IPZilla closed group is up, pending bug 214133 for accessing it through the Portal
- PMC Representation on the AC - backup delegates, 1 attendee required
- Efficient Communications
- Many AC members are involved in very many things. Need to communicate efficiently, with low "data to noise ratio"
- We already have: Bugzilla on creation/close only with opt-in; [URGENT] tag; Doodle for attendance tracking/voting; Wiki for discussions; anything else we could improve?
- Goal should be that it is easy to track what we are doing without getting spammed, and get notified of urgent matters.
- Avoid sending response to a meeting invitation / out-of-office back to the list (Mary, Mark, Eugene)
- It's interesting that some others (IBM'ers) have responded privately to Martin (John A, Darin S, Tom W, Dave W, Kevin H)
- Note the RSS Feed for the AC Mailing List: helpful for referencing previous postings
- RESOLUTION: AC is happy with current communication patterns.
News from the EMO & Councils
- December Official Board Minutes not yet done
- Doug Gaff summarizes the december board meeting on the Committer Reps Blog
- Mik: Are the EPP distributions "products"? Board says No. No clear actions out of that, but it should be reflected on the download pages.
- McQ: It doesn't matter what we label the EPP packages as... users just treat them as such, especially wrt JDT
- Much Platform/UI bug triage work goes into things that should really be associated with other projects: a large portion of bugs doesn't have value!
- Can we label stuff as "limited support" ?
- Can we do something like redhat (with RHEL / Fedora distros)
- Jeff: Better highlight that there are supported offerings? Make it clearer what the support level is?
- In Linux, are bugs reported against the distro or against upstream projects?
- Martin: "Report a bug" wizard?
- Boris: Why isn't there a "Services" company interested in creating a distro with a "report a bug" wizard and make money out of that?
- Jeff: Make it clear in a positive way that stuff is available FOR FREE... and some bugs may be closed "WONTFIX"
- Firefox and Openoffice are also treated as "products"...
- Martin: "Expectation" discussion (to be held at planning council?) vs. technical "Low quality bugs" discussion
- Mik: Help > Report this bug ... button in every distro that includes Mylyn been doing more harm than good so far
- Kevin McGuire wanted to get bug auto-reported against Distro rather than component?
- Boris: Platform UI tries to redirect bugs properly, not too big an issue for them
- Martin: Windows 7 "Report a enhancement request with THIS component"
- ... they set the expecatation like "We won't respond but your comment is valuable"
- Mik: new "report bug" wizard allows to select any feature that has UI
- Boris: "report bug" wizard could show a webpage with (paid) ads of companies for commercial support... commercial products could replace that by their commercial support page
- Mik: Mylyn has an extension point for registering commercial support
- AI Mik to propose a date for demoing the feature at EclipseCon
- StAC 090115 Minutes meeting for funding release train activities: following this meeting
- Based on StAC 081028 Minutes SWOT analysis
New Topics
- EclipseCon - AC meeting on Sunday before the conference (Mar 22) afternoon
- Proposed StAC meeting 3pm-5pm including the AC, PC and RC; but we have some topics (like mentorship) not so interesting for the other councils
- Official Architecture Council/F2F EclipseCon 2009 from 5pm-6pm, inofficial afterwards (Program Committee get-together after 6pm); want to have pizza dinner
- Architecture Council/Ask the AC Panel: many questions are important for ourselves to understand and answer consistently
- McQ - Eclipse Adoption and API Deprecation Policy
- Platform clients have problems updating to newer Eclipse versions, in spite of remaining binary API compatible. Do others see this too?
- How can inevitable migration effort (e.g. due to fixing semantic errors in API) be eased?
- Tagging change / tools to detect change
- How can we help clients become API-clean, and how can we help protect investment where API cleanliness is impossible?
- Tools to report usage of non-API even in closed source
- Allow clients to contribute unittests for code where they (have to) leverage internal non-API, in order to detect breakage early
- How can we help clients detect usage of obsoleted features, and migrate to the new replacement feature more easily?
- API Deprecation Policy / Soft deprecation tag
- Is it reasonable to expect API-clean clients?
- Dave Williams: Semantic differences are hard; in WTP, there are tools for scanning code and reporting back; would like to see PDE API Tools move into usage scanning as well
- McQ: Want scanners on beyond-bundle-granularity to report usage. Should we do that between projects? Setup a database for the information?
- Jeff: Low-fidelity / high-fidelity analyzers of usage
- Martin: are we softening the "You must be API clean" story?
- McQ: we should still be talking about "you must be API clean", but how can we live with reality? API does change. Take the low-level SWT event mechanism for instance. Can we tag non-API as "you're OK to use it"?
- DaveW: at this point, we should be collecting information and then decide on what to do with the information.
- Dave Carver: often, there is no way doing something without going "internal". How many people have actually requested something become API?
- Report will also be good to find out what non-API should be made API
- McQ: Formal deprecation policy?
- Jeff: Setup another call for the deprecation thing? Start up simple and start a scanner for all of Eclipse.org
- Darin: API Tooling currently working on scanners to discover references between plugins, generating report or dumping into a DB
Old items
- See also Architecture Council/Open Issues for overflow items that were not discussed
Action Items
- (old) Martin to follow up with the m2eclipse and IAM projects regarding duplication
- (old) Martin to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea
- (old) Martin to start a Wiki page explaining what's good about having a mentor
- (old) Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns, backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals
- While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse
- (old) Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
- (old) Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list (committed until end January)
- (old) Mike to inform everyone when the IPZilla Legal Closed Group is ready to use
- (old) All PMC's to encourage incubating grandfathered projects ask for a mentor (by filing an AC bug)
- Dave Carver send links to Wiki pages which we might want to emulate for the AC Homepage
- Mik to propose a date for demoing the Mylyn "report a bug" feature
- Everyone review/edit the various Architecture Council wiki pages, particularly the Architecture Council/Ask the AC Panel/FAQ and Architecture Council/Links collection. Add questions to the FAQ.
- Martin to schedule Architecture Council/Minutes API Deprecation 20080122 call
- Martin to schedule Architecture Council/F2F EclipseCon 2009 - Sunday 5pm-6pm
Next Meeting
- Architecture Council/Minutes API Deprecation 20080122 call on Thursday, Jan 22
- Architecture Council call on Thursday, February 12