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Architecture Council/Meetings/September 9 2010

Meeting Title: Architecture Council Monthly Meeting
Date & Time: Thursday September 9, 2010 at 1500 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin attention DST change
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All AC Members are invited.

  • PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
BIRT: Wenfeng Li Gary Xue
DTP: Brian Payton Linda Chan
DSDP: Martin Oberhuber TBD (DSDP-PMC)
Eclipse: Mike Wilson John Arthorne
Boris Bokowski
Modeling: Ed Merks Cédric Brun
Sven Efftinge
RT: Jeff McAffer Tom Watson
STP: Antoine Toulme Oisin Hurley
Technology: Gunnar Wagenknecht Wayne Beaton
Tools: Doug Schaefer
TPTP: Jonathan West
WTP: Tim deBoer Dave Carver
Neil Hauge
  • Signed-up: Wayne Beaton, Neil Hauge, Kenn Hussey, Jeff McAffer, Ed Merks, Kim Moir, Martin O, Brian Payton, Doug Schaefer, Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Darin Wright, Gary Xue
  • Regrets: Oliver Cole (standing conflict), Wenfeng Li (standing conflict), Andrew Overholt (sabbatical), Mik Kersten
  • No-Show: Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, Nick Boldt, Boris Bokowski, Cédric Brun, Linda Chan, Dave Carver, Eugene Chan, Doug Clarke, Tim deBoer, Oisin Hurley, Markus Knauer, Bernd Kolb, Mike Milinkovich, Mary Ruddy, Darin Swanson, Antoine Toulme, Gunnar Wagenknecht, Tom Watson, Jonathan West, Dave Williams, Mike Wilson, Oliver Wolf

Agenda / Notes

  • Feel free to edit, but not during the call!

Review of Last Meeting

  • Architecture Council/Meetings/August 12 2010
  • (old) Tim write up an initial wiki page with information for people to standardize on the tracing API
  • Martin revise the AC Wiki to make it easier to find the New Member Process. More links on homepage. More usage of categories.
  • Martin bug 315210 Make the AC mailing list open / moderated
  • Antoine / Dave C bug 316642 Requirements Wiki for build systems
  • Still open items moved to #Action Items

New Topics

  • Findbugs day / Fixit challenge - Dave C
    • Ed likes the idea... but how configurable is Findbugs to avoid false positives just due to style?
    • Wayne: Producers of FindBugs have been using Eclipse as a test project
    • Resolution follow up in a bug, key will be getting a good config to only show bugs but no stlye issues

  • bug 324125 architecture diagrams - 2006 version - relationship to e4 ?
    • Ed - nice to have, but who's going to produce them?
    • Wayne - core question is, are these valuable? If yes, what is the smallest amount of work possible creating something useful?
    • Jeff - Platform: Technical details like OSGi bundles etc are well covered... but what is the relationship between projects on top of the Platform ? What can be used together?
      • From a Consumer point of view, always hard to find out how eg the Modeling projects work together
      • Eg relationship RAP - EMF - Eclipselink ... how to put something together with Persistence + Web
    • Martin - looks like interaction between projects would just be documenting what evolved ad-hoc
    • Jeff - having no deliberate architecture sounds like failure of the AC in the past
    • Michael - opposite is also true, avoiding dependencies
    • How to sell this ... who is the target audience? Value to committers / adopters seems small
    • Wayne: A PDE component can draw a dependency graph .. but what is the value?
      • Jeff: RCP came about by having the community ask for removing dependencies
  • Diagrams are a vehicle, not a means to an end.
    • Looking at current architecture, it appears too "stacked"
  • Wayne has a newer diagram for the Platform in a presentation somewhere ... rectifying the diagrams is not too much work
    • Martin: Rectifying current diagrams + collecting statements might be helpful .. on a Wiki page
    • To keep that from getting stale, would need to make it a recurring agenda item
  • Ed: Dependency issues are likely best driven by Community ("what they want").
    • Some dependencies are really annoying, but well-known and unlikely to change (eg EMF -> Resources, making it unusable in RCP)
  • Truth is, we have ad-hoc dependencies, but it's unlikely to change
    • Cleanup only happens with sufficient pressure / value to consumers.
    • If we cannot effect change, we can just document things
  • AI Wayne create an "Eclipse Platform Architecture" Wiki page with a diagram he already has as slideware. Continue discussion from there

  • Helios API Usage report
    • How much of an issue is it (related to e4)?
    • Handling of provisional API ? E.g. o.e.debug.internal.ui.viewers.model.provisional.IChildrenCountUpdate
    • promote usage of x-friends / startup extension (as per zx mail)
    • Darin thinks that client of API should request producer of API to be a friend (and allow producer to say yes or no)
    • Jeff: non-API usage is really a bug... but allow consumers to request being a friend
      • Value of promoting friend-usage is diagram cleanup / reducing noise
      • In order to promote the effort, could create some statistics of showing the biggest offenders
    • Jeff would like no internal references in the release train ... exemption when a request exists asking for new API
      • If we really think there should be no non-API use, we should walk the walk and enforce it
      • We can promote the idea, but control resides with the PC
    • Current report is user-based ... Darin wants a consumer-based report in Indigo bug 322571 on the PDE/Plan/3.7

  • Build systems requirements - Antoine, Dave C
  • News from the Board, EMO and Councils

e4 - current state of affairs

  • PC / Release Train Relationship to Eclipse 4.0

Items for next meeting

Regular briefing on the status of e4.

Old Topics

We need to reduce our bug backlog, by actually coming to a common resolution on some. Here are the most recent ones:

  • DaveC would like to discuss New Committer Guidelines; Scrum / Agile techniques
  • bug 285074 - Dave Carver - Hudsonbuilder and write access to the cvs / svn repo
  • bug 288393 - Denis - Bugzilla Best Practices

Action Items

  • (old) Martin to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea
  • (old) Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns, backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals
    • While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse
  • (old) Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
  • (old) Tools and Tech PMC's to encourage incubating grandfathered projects find a mentor; mentorless projects due to AC members quitting or falling dormant
  • (old) Martin to add Eclipsecon meeting notes onto the wiki
  • (old) Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for Mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list
  • (old) Dave C work with Wayne on a "handbook" for project criteria for becoming a committer (referencing committer guidelines)
  • (old) Dave C come up with a document how to save build resources
  • (old) Dave C to try bugzilla UNCONFIRMED state
  • (old) Wayne to ask Sonatype about Nexus test installation
  • (old) Wayne to try doing a 3.6m2 API Report on Helios m2
  • (old) Martin to file bug for asking Mik hyperlink Wikitext / crowdsourcing Docs handbook on the Architecture Council/Top Ten Project Development Practices page
  • (old) Tom S Athena Common Builder Cookbook
  • (old) Tim write up an initial wiki page with information for people to standardize on the tracing API
  • Martin revise the AC Wiki to make it easier to find the New Member Process. More links on homepage. More usage of categories.
  • Martin bug 315210 Make the AC mailing list open / moderated
  • Antoine / Dave C bug 316642 Requirements Wiki for build systems

Next Meeting

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