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Architecture Council/Meetings/October 8 2009

Meeting Title: Architecture Council Monthly Meeting
Date & Time: Thursday October 8, 2009 at 1500 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin
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All AC Members are invited.

  • PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
BIRT: Wenfeng Li Gary Xue
DTP: Brian Payton Linda Chan
DSDP: Doug Gaff Martin Oberhuber
Eclipse: Mike Wilson John Arthorne
Martin Oberhuber
Modeling: Ed Merks Cédric Brun
RT: Jeff McAffer Jochen Krause
Tom Watson
STP: Oisin Hurley Antoine Toulme
Technology: Gunnar Wagenknecht Wayne Beaton
Tools: Doug Schaefer
TPTP: Eugene Chan Oliver Cole
Joanna Kubasta
WTP: Tim deBoer Dave Carver
  • Signed-up: Wayne Beaton, Boris Bokowski (late), Cedric Brun, Eugene Chan, Tim deBoer, Neil Hauge, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Ed Merks, Andrew Overholt, Brian Payton, Doug Schaefer, Tom Watson, Darin Wright, Gary Xue,
  • Regrets: John Arthorne, Dave Carver, Linda Chan, Doug Gaff, Jeff McAffer
  • No-Show: Chris Aniszczyk, Adrian Colyer, Sven Efftinge, Oisin Hurley, Bernd Kolb, Wenfeng Li, Mike Milinkovich, Mary Ruddy, Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Antoine Toulme, Sebastian Voigt, Gunnar Wagenknecht, David Williams, Mike Wilson, Oliver Wolf

Agenda / Notes

  • Feel free to edit, but not during the call!

Review of Last Meeting

New Topics

  • Welcome Brian Payton (IBM San Jose since 25 years), DTP PMC Lead - replacing in Brian Fitzpatrick who moved from Sybase to Redhat
  • Nick Boldt - an incredible 28 +1s out of 40 active Architecture Council/Members and Mentors !!! That's 73% including the nominator. I cannot remember any politician ever achieving such a tremendous vote of respect and affirmation!
    • AI Martin recommend to Mike
    • Please nominate more candidates now!
    • End of term of service for some next year -- a "checkpoint" for members themselves to see whether they want to continue serve
  • Pruning inactive members (dormant status)
  • Mik: How many new members do we want? 3 or 10?
    • Martin - Being an AC member should be an honor not given lightly. Should consider our Architecture Council/Membership Guidelines when nominating people.
    • There likely won't be more than 10 people meeting these criteria who are also willing to do some work
    • But we certainly need fresh motivated people to join! -
    • If we nominate people because of their continued work and time given to the community, they are likely going to be active members on the AC as well.

Project Plans

  • Wayne: Project plans are important - awsome feedback, but a little behind schedule
    • Most projects have a plan right now - not all have milestones. Please add milestones and themes
    • Mentors please check with your mentored projects whether they have a useful project plan that contains future milestones

bug 283734 Crowdsourcing Docs / WikiText

  • Some projects (including Mylyn) use Eclipsepedia as their main source for docs
  • Using headless version of WikiText to translate that into Eclipse Help / PDF
  • Should be an option for project, not required -- need easy instructions, linked from AC Best Practices, AI Martin file a bug for that

bug 261544 API Deprecation Policies

  • Eclipse Platform adding API Tooling support: API Usage Reports since 3.6m2 (via "External Tools", see the 3.6m2 N&N for details)
  • Revive discussion on the bug
  • Mik: Eclipse Platform to inform the AC when the Platform Policy has been finalized, such that projects can decide to follow
  • Darin: Bug for the foundation to publish results of API scan -- Darin would be happy to do that
  • Wayne: Should we expose the API Scanner through a Webinar?
  • Mik: Could we perform an API Scan on all of Helios?
    • Darin: Focus on references to org.eclipse.* only -- not interested in Orbit, org.apache etc
    • Has been discussed on the PC as well
    • AI Wayne to look into doing the Report
    • AI Martin bring it up on the Eclipse PMC (publishing the actual policy)

e4 and UI technologies

  • Brian Payton: e4 -- 3 or 4 new UI technologies, which one is recommended?
  • Martin: Ask the e4 mailing list
  • Doug S: e4 team to present their progress to the AC - AI Martin bring forward to the Eclipse PMC - standing agenda item for e4

bug 283745 - Maven Repository at Eclipse

  • Wayne: Talked with Mike M to Sonatype folks about possible options
  • Could have a single Repo that can be accessed as p2, OBR and Maven...
    • sounds very interesting, but only supported by their Nexus commercial product, dont want to sacrifice vendor neutrality although Sonatype would be willing to give for no money
    • Open Source version of Nexus just supports Maven - no decisions been made so far
  • Only 5-10 people really expressed interest in Maven, but EF haven't get some quantitative number how many (thousands) people would actually benefit
    • Ed: Henrik Lindberg proposed a Maven "converter", people should be happy with that...
    • Mik: Could we try out a Nexus p2 facade somewhere else, e.g. at Sonatype? - AI Wayne ask that question
    • Ed: Cloudsmith (Henrik) were also interested - AI Ed make them aware of the bug
    • Andrew: With Maven, he saw many projects leveraging Maven for build not care about API changes and get stuck with some older version of a dependency (because it's so easy to use the old version of the dependency) -- caused much pain for Fedora sine they want to ship only ONE version of things. Don't want to see Eclipse getting into that nightmare
    • Mik: assess the momentum behind Maven? - not everybody using Maven uses OSGi
  • Nexus commercial: How important is vendor neutrality?
    • Mik: Need concrete evidence of benefit
  • Wayne: Would we add more responsibilities to projects in order to support Maven (add pom.xml, add an entry on the portal, ...?)
    • How much do people want this, how much are projects willing to do to support this
    • Will it increase our coolness factor!
      • Andrew: The question is really: is our coolness hampered by having strict API guidelines, and would Maven make it easier to work around that?
      • Why would people want to use Maven? Is it because PDE build is too complex? - Don't impose anything on the projects (auto-generate pom.xml)
      • Wayne: some Eclipse projects (including Jetty) who are not on OSGi are building from Maven
    • Wayne: It should be opt-in.
    • What Eclipse bundles are in today? - AJDT, Core, CVS, GEF, EMF, Equinox, Mylar, Mylyn, Search, SWT, Tomcat, WTP, ...

b3 - State of the art

  • Ed: Want to extract the better aspects of PDE Build and Buckminster into some more model based, declarative structure -- DESCRIBING what a build should do
    • Much of this design is in Manifests, build.xml, etc today... want to extract all of this into a high-level model
    • Henrik and Thomas very actively working on this, newsgroup with models, asking for feedback, Symposion at ESE ... rapid generation of interest

Bugzilla Best Practices

  • Tim: what is the current state?
    • bug 288393 - Denis - Bugzilla Best Practices
    • Martin: Denis was concerned about workload due to creating artificial inboxes
      • We've been exploring alternatives, but don't have an official best practice yet that everybody can commit to
      • Dave C had an action item to explore bugzilla UNCONFIRMED state. More discussion is on the bug.

Items for next meeting

Action Items

  • (old) Martin to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea
  • (old) Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns, backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals
    • While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse
  • (old) Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
  • (old) Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for Mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list
  • (old) Tools and Tech PMC's to encourage incubating grandfathered projects find a mentor; mentorless projects due to AC members quitting or falling dormant
  • (old) Martin to add Eclipsecon meeting notes onto the wiki
  • (old) Dave C work with Wayne on a "handbook" for project criteria for becoming a committer (referencing committer guidelines)
  • (old) Dave C come up with a document how to save build resources
  • (old) Dave C to try bugzilla UNCONFIRMED state
  • Martin to recommend Nick Boldt to Mike for nomination
  • Martin to talk to Eclipse PMC regarding e4 representation, API deprecation
  • Martin to file bug for asking Mik hyperlink Wikitext / crowdsourcing Docs handbook on the Architecture Council/Top Ten Project Development Practices page
  • Wayne to ask Sonatype about Nexus test installation
  • Wayne to try doing a 3.6m2 API Report on Helios m2
  • 'Ed to tell Cloudsmith about bug 283745 Maven

Next Meeting

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