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Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2017

< Eclipse‎ | PMC

Current Minutes

2017 Minutes

December 12, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • P2 capabilities work breaking Oomph and CBI (bug 528408)
    • Alex: Hidden bug due to adopters using internals.
    • Alex: Code refactoring in p2 pushed to reduce the chance for such breakage.
    • Alex: Oomph fixed its codebase to properly check instances so it works with p2 both prior and after adding capabilities.
    • McQ: What do we do with p2?
    • Alex: Open up the project as much as we can and recruit new committers by being really welcoming to people.

-> Conclusion to not respin M4 due to this bug as it's internal API which projects should not have used.

  • Project plan update
    • Dani: No additional change came from anyone else in the PMC so update of executions environments and adding Java 9 are the only thing due.
  • Next meeting on January 9

December 05, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • Vacation: Dani will be in vacation end of week, so other PMC member need to cover for him if something comes up for M4.
  • Discussion about adding EGit to the SDK? (bug 528004)
    • Dani using a shared installed to manage the EGit plug-in.
    • McQ explains that he thinks EGit is required for a full package but does not feel strong about.
    • Alex: It depends what "SDK" means: SDK to develop plug-ins or SDK to develop Eclipse Platform. We agreed on the former.
    • Dani, Alex are against adding it because it adds maintaince burden and it is unclear which of the optional packages should be installed.
    • Tom, Lars have no strong opinions
    • All agree that managing to install this is an easy task

-> Conclusing to not include EGit in the SDK

  • URL handler registration of Eclipse with the OS
    • SAP plans to contribute a way to register Eclipse to certain URLs. If the user clicks on such a URL, Eclipse would open and be able to show the file. This could be useful for installation of new items in the marketplacen client VSCode allows this already vscode:extension/eamodio.gitlens.
    • Redhat had similar requirements in the past
    • Platform team expects that SAP will also maintain this contribution and take responsibility of it for future releases
    • Dani (after meeting): I think extending the current file based mechanism is OK, but we won't register any (including URL) handler

-> Conclusion to work on this enhancement together with SAP, Alex plans to dedicate some time for discussing the technical solution. SAP should open a new bug and link all related bugs to this top-level bug so that the technical details can be discussed

  • Discussion of building natives
    • moved building of SWT binaries for the 3 primary platforms to the Eclipse Foundation
    • unfortunately after that the Mac went down - fixed now
    • M4 SWT natives will be built on the Eclipse Foundation hardware
    • Launcher still to be moved

November 28, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Alex: Release Change announcement
    • Agreed that we won't mention the ramp-down process.
    • Agreed to add API removal details.
    • Still work in progress.
  • Dani: API Removal process for the new release model
  • Dani: Meeting notes
    • McQ suggested that who joins last has to do it. Dani: not so good since it won't contain the notes for the discussions that happened before.
    • Will do it based on rotation and ability to actually write down the notes.
    • Dani to do it for this call.
  • Dani: Photon plan update
    • Will add Java 9 as supported VM.
    • Anything else? If so, send Dani a note or update bug 527964
  • McQ: Rename Eclipse Project to Eclipse SDK
    • We should only do it when forced by the Foundation and/or Board
    • We would need a plan before starting such an effort.

November 14, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Tom

  • Dani:
    • Presented our new release model to Planning Council. Was welcomed. No objections. But needs discussion what the Release Train will do.
    • RC1 went well, RC2 this week.

November 07, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • For the 3 months releases, we have have a development freeze after RC1 until RC3. After RC3 master will be opened again for development. Development is possible until RC1, so this will result in a freeze period of approx. 2 weeks.
  • For releases versions of the platform we will use semantic versioning as before (4.8, 4.9, 4.10, ..)
  • Eclipse SDK will use versions not branding names unless the release train moves also the same cycle.
  • Splash will continue show the release year and month

October 31, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Martin, Alex,

  • Tom: Bugzilla Landing Page - EMO said both PMCs need to be contacted
    • Bug IDs, Equinox product and components remain in place, only the landing page will be updated
  • Dani: M3 Respin
    • Issue had been found by a team member, but got lost between different teams
    • Resolved and respun very fast, the fix is out now
  • Dani: Release Cycles and Java Alignment
    • Planning Council F2F meeting was at EclipseCon Europe; planning call will be on Thursday
    • Initially, felt like aligning with Java 18.3 was a good idea, but for now the plan is keeping the Oxygen SR rhythm and releasing Oxygen.3a aligned with Java
    • In case the Oracle release should slip, it will be most likely be named 18.4 (whatever month the release ends up in)
  • All: Platform Release Rhythm
    • At ECE, many people were surprised about changing release rhythm but the plan was generally appreciated
    • Should stick to the communicated Photon plan though and change only afterwards
    • Alex suggests promoting a Milestone build from master (properly marked up as such) aligned with the Java 18 release
      • This would promote master as something that can be used
      • After Photon, we will release 4 times from master - there won't be any maintenance builds any more
      • For the release train, there will also be release candidates.

October 24, 2017 - cancelled due to ECE

October 17, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars, Alex

  • Conf.system: Fallback to McQ's number is not a good solution (can't give out the moderator code)
    • Foundation (Denis) is aware of the problem, looking for a solution sooner than later
    • Skype group call, or would work for Dani and McQ
  • Dani: bug 526065 Java 9 to Oxygen.1a beta update issue
    • Users who had the Java 9 beta installed and "update" to Oxygen.1a are broken
    • McQ: Updating from "beta" to "final" is not necessarily supposed to be working (Lars disagrees)
    • Not yet sure what's causing the issue .. p2 bug, or different groupID for Java9beta
    • Fix the issue if it looks like a real bug or easy to fix ... otherwise just post a message, preferredly on the Marketplace client (Dani: that part is done already)
  • Lars: Release Cycle Discussion
    • McQ still in favor of making every milestone a release
      • Alex thinks we're not there yet in terms of releng, there's still too many manual steps. Would prefer slower cadence (eg 3 months) until more automation is there (updating pom.xml, version mgmt, ...)
      • With 4 releases per year (like today) but no more maintenance branches/backports, there's potentially less work than today
      • Try starting with a release every 2nd milestone; fix automation; then strive for releasing every milestone.
      • Dani thinks the model shouldn't change in the middle of Photon; look for feedback then move to the new model next year
    • McQ: If we switch to the new model now (Oxygen.2), what do we lose?
      • Martin: Any bigger feature that would need to move into a branch? - Dani: Advanced Source Lookup
      • Dani: Also our rules about "no new features" and "PMC Approval" would need to change
      • Continue discussion in 2 weeks (skip next week due to EclipseCon)

October 10, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Oxygen.1a respin
    • Primary reason for respin was, that people who have existing XText installed would be broken when updating the Platform
    • Opportunity to piggy-back JDT critical fixes was welcome
  • Dani: Equinox Move - Review passed without objections, working on implementation now
    • Expecting less trouble than with the Platform and JDT merges recently
    • Foundation want to keep Equinox as a brand, therefore will be a subproject (beside Platform, JDT, PDE)
    • So to increase the committer base, the fast track option will now apply; also, more alignment in terms of PMC.
    • Confirmed again that we will ask Tom to join our PMC. Approval can be found in this thread.
  • Dani: Planning Council - Rolling Releases Update
    • Should remove some of the work maintaining 2 streams - simply release from master regularly
    • In the past, API breakage (migration guide) was allowed only once per year - how to deal with this moving forward
    • Handle with semantic versioning; how to give adopters sufficient time to adjust
    • There's usually 2 camps for every topic being discussed ... though practically, Platform sets the pace
    • Release Naming - New Name every quarter? Versioning scheme? (like 2017.4 or 17.04)
    • How to simplify processes (also in terms of IP), can the Foundation scale up? Perhaps not more work, but more deadlines
      • In terms of the Release Review, only the N&N and the Migration Guide are relevant; need to satisfy small and big consumers
  • Martin: Reddeer Contribution
    • When we last discussed this, it was an important criterion that any contributor can run the tests easily
    • Alex: Looks good, essentially boils down to running "mvn clean verify" in the PDE repo (or right-click > Run as Reddeer from the IDE) - AI Alex will have a video sent to the PMC list
  • Alex: API Removal in Context of Rolling Releases
    • Which Rules to apply for allowing removal of API; Allow removal in any release?
      • McQ: The real question is, how long it takes consumers to adopt to removal
      • Dani: Is more conservative regarding deletion - the value removing something is often smaller than the ripple it causes
      • McQ: If there is code in our codebase that significantly slows us down, it should be remove even if API
    • Martin: With more releases, there's less push to upgrade ; but will consumers know they are broken? - Semantic versioning should address that, but who really uses upper version ranges ... they have caused more pain than benefit in the past
    • Dani: In the past, with our 3-year deprecation plan, Major versions have not been updated even on announced removals...
    • McQ: If we are earnest about faster velocity, we have to fully adopt semantic versioning practices. If we as producers have done what we could, our job is done - consumers who don't use upper version ranges are on their own

October 3, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin

  • Conf system woes - Dani couldn't dial in, Denis restarted the bridge leaving Martin and Alex in a Zombie bridge
    • ACTION McQ will send out conf.details using IBM's bridge
  • bug 520720 Mickael's question on Performance improvement
    • Dani: There is already an asynchronous RequestLayout API for clients, and APIs already suggest clients use the async one
      • Therefore, changing the synchronous API to work asynchronously doesn't look right.
    • Alex: We seem to be mixing two aspects here -- agree regarding RequestLayout concerns, but why should the ProgressMonitor one be a problem?
      • Dani: Agree that the ProgressMonitor approach makes sense, but a very careful review is needed - existing code already subclasses ProgressMonitor, need to make sure that expected methods are still called
      • ACTION Dani will do a careful review of the ProgressMonitor part and deny the generic RequestLayout part
  • Dani: Equinox Restructuring request for the move is in, will work with Tom and Foundation forward
  • Dani: Oxygen.1a - RC2 is in for JUnit5 and Java9
    • Respin of Oxygen.1 for bug 520176 Mac 10.13 High Sierra problem? - Not currently planned, there will be 1a instead
    • A feature patch is another option, providing patched SWT; and, there's the workarounds
  • Dani: Rolling Release - 2 topics: rolling release, and alignment with Java Update Releases
    • Some projects on the train have alignment goals with other projects outside Java; will discuss again in the Planning Council
  • Alex: bug 522733 webkit crash - A workaround is available, in contact with webkit devs for a complete fix to keep Photon usable
    • Workaround would introduce a small memory leak, but only on the first instance of webkit created

September 26, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin

  • bug 520176 MacOSX 10.13 (High Sierra) Menus Disabled
    • Only non-English Locales are affected
    • For 4.7.1a and Photon, a fix is in
    • Foundation Press Release (Newsletter) is out with information how to work around
    • Tweets are around as well -- keep spreading the message
  • Equinox Move Review - progressing
  • Alex: bug 522733 GTK Crash on Close preventing IDE Restart - can it go into 4.7.1a ?
    • Seen with Fedora 27 (Webkitgtk 2.18)
    • Foundation wanted to keep Java9 stuff separate, so pushing it there might not even help
    • The issue is serious (hard crash preventing restart of the IDE), though fortunately not many people have that particular webkitgtk version yet
    • Investigate details and possible workarounds, then consider our options -- maybe a Foundation Newsletter similar to the OSX 10.13 issue

September 19, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Async APIs request from the eclipse-pmc list (not discussed today)
  • Lars: Java 6-month release cycles
    • Alex likes the 6 month idea - less backporting
    • McQ would ideally like full releases every 3 months (except not releasing anything unfinished)
    • Dani: If Java really delivers every 6 months (will they?), Eclipse could consider rolling releases every milestone. There is a doc from the Planning Council (Mélanie Bats) in that regard.
    • Dani: Support for the public JDKs will be limited to the current release only (6mo)
    • Risk: Oracle Java may be working on big features "in the background", if there is very little time adopting new features (current license doesn't allow releasing stuff built on Beta's) it's hard for Eclipse to keep up
    • Lars: Some teams already moving to Kotlin...
    • Dani: More discusssions planned at ECE, AC etc
    • AGREEMENT to wait for now for (a) the Planning Council announcement and (b) how Java will actually implement and live up to their plans. Work towards faster release cycles (that's a good message to the consumers anyways).
    • Will need to work on details. If there's more releases, and each one needs a review, it's more work on release records and reviews. Already on a good path here, paperwork reduced to a matter of an hour.
  • Dani: Java 9 (Oxygen.1a) round the door. Plan is a full release.
  • McQ: bug 520176 MacOS 10.13 menubar issue people at Apple are also looking at it. Biggest problem is that it's not 100% reproducible. Might end up with some System Properties to be set to resolve the problem.

September 12, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Dani

  • Dani asked Alex to look into bug 517063 with high prio. We need this for M2.
  • Dani: sub-project merge
    • McQ and Lars approved my message regarding sub-project. Will send out the note today.
    • Still an issue with IP log not being merged
    • Release engineers can no longer restart the HIPPs
  • Started to discuss Advise for performance enhancement making API methods behave async
    • We need more time to verify the fix and look at the patch. Will discuss and decide next week.

September 5, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Martin

  • Alex: bug 521639 Mac Signing Issues for Oxygen.1
    • 3 requests out of 5 failing, don't know yet why - webmasters assume hardware issues, trying to move to a different machine
    • RC4:
      • Security fix in p2 (bug 518031)
      • Changes in Releng scripts to run tests on different Mac machine

August 29, 2017 - McQ, Dani, Martin

  • All: Conference System Woes - 3 tries for McQ (race conditions?), 2 tries for Martin (silence first), 10 tries for Dani
  • Dani: Subproject Merge done after some hiccups, no complaints since Fri
    • Subprojects are now "archived" with a comment that they got merged into the parent project
    • AI Dani planning to send another notification to mailing lists:
      • former PLs to become Repo Maintainers responsible for signoff and planning
      • Bugzilla remaining the same
      • Some former subproject leads already stepped up as combined project co-leads (Lars, Lakshmi, Sarika)
    • McQ: Move forward towards the new structure, but there's also need to push for responsibility among the subcomponents (finding go-to persons...)
  • Dani: StyledText improvement request on the ML (Pluggable selection model)
    • point to the e4 incubator for experiments, encourage innovation though might be quite hard and pervasive
  • RC3 looking good (except for build issues on the Foundation side, no I-Build since Aug.22 - Mac DMG is at risk for RC3)
  • Dani away next week, please watch the list for approvals towards RC4 next week

August 22, 2017 - Alex, Dani, Martin

  • All: Conference System Woes - Dani had 7 minutes trouble dialing in; Alex was kicked out
  • Dani: Plan - AI Martin review
    • Target Platform reduced - removed too much? - and Subproject plans. Rest is copy-and-paste.
  • Dani: Subproject Merge - Everything approved, waiting for implementation by EMO.
  • Dani: RC2 this week - Still many Platform/UI bugs, Dani will make a pass moving out since Lars is on vacation
  • Martin: feature/bundle version issues
    • Dani: Checking versions is quite time consuming, there's no tooling solution for the workspace right now (but there are reports).
    • For branding bundles and features, rules are different than for others - Dani currently doing those, since few people have access
    • Currently we're looking good, but automation would be better than manual nagging

August 15, 2017 - Alex, Dani

  • Dani: subproject merge initiated - waiting for webmasters
  • Dani: Provided Photon (4.8) release record and plan - please provide comments
  • Alex and Dani discussed feature/bundle version issues - next builds should be better

August 8, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani

  • Eclipse Asterisk system is not working reliably (again). It took Dani 6 minutes until he could dial in (using the Swiss number - US number failed repeatedly). McQ can't dial in until 10 min later.
  • Dani: starting the planning record for Photon to announce participation in M1
    • Toplevel items: JUnit5, Java9. Subplans on the Wiki.
  • Dani: subproject merge - wanted to wait for M1, but should be done this week
  • Alex: ppc64be - Sravan is waiting on final decision whether it will be removed in Photon
    • Dani: PMC decision was settled, so removed from Eclipse plan - IBM might still continue building it for internal use

August 1, 2017 - no call

July 25, 2017 - Alex, Lars, Dani

  • project merge got go, Dani to implement it with webmaster and then send out the announcement this or next week. E-mail will also mention that existing project leads can become co-leads on Eclipse Platform
  • Discussion if CVS should be removed from the SDK build, Alex +1, Lars +1, Dani +1
  • Discussion if the remaining 2.0 compatibility layer can be removed, Dani: OK to remove but other plug-ins might still have dependencies to it, must the also updated, as well as the documentation

July 18, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • project merge review awaiting go from Wayne - Dani pinged again in the bug report
  • Dani will kick off planning for Photon a bit earlier since he will be in Bangalore the next 12 days. Platform UI already started.
  • M1 on August 11

July 11, 2017 - no meeting

July 4, 2017 - no meeting

June 27, 2017 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Equinox Merge to the Eclipse TLP
    • Keep Equinox as a separate Project, to allow independent Equinox releases without Platform (and keep Bugzilla simple)
    • The only argument for stronger integration would be getting more committers, but there is no strong need and we have the FastTrack process in place for that
  • Eclipse Merge of Component (Sub)Projects into Platform
    • Just 4 Projects: Platform, Equinox, JDT, PDE (plus the incubators for e4 and JDT)
    • Former (Sub)Project Leads to become "Component Leads", "Technology Owners" or "Repository Owners"
      • Repository Ownership is appealing as the structure is very clear (+1 Dani,Alex,McQ)
    • Platform Lead initially Dani, more Co-Leads could step up if they want
      • Main work is helping component leads if they can't come to a consensus - usually less work than PMC duties
  • Dani: JSR 376 Ballot
    • Public review reconsideration ballot got approved by all except Red Hat who abstained
    • Much progress in the past weeks, consensus except RH abstained
    • Looks like the OOBE of Java9 would tolerate reflection, currently looks like on track for a September Release
  • Vacations many people will be off next week, especially in the U.S.
    • PMC call will be skipped next week

June 20, 2017 - MQ, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Attracting new contributors discussions - code cleanup and deletion of old paths needed
    • Alex: Big issue to get people working on codebase and considering many now irrelevant paths in the codebase
    • Dani: Cleanups should be done by the one starting them through the whole SDK
    • Lars: Not feasible as some projects are slower pace moving and the change might require more effort than one can or is willing to spend in his free time
    • Alex: Great opportunity to have new people joining by doing simple tasks and grow them into full committers
    • McQ: We have to come up with list of items we would like to get cleaned and properly follow our deprecation policy even if the migration guide for Photon get really big with things we schedule for removal in the future.
  • Dani: Sub-projects merge
    • Name of the new project - McQ: Everyone refers to it as Platform so natural choice it is
    • JDT, PDE, Platform (subprojects) to become single project
    • Person responsible for some code area in the merged project - to be further dicussed
  • Dani: Dropping Xulrunner support - PMC to approve it in the bug

Juni 13, 2017 - MQ, Dani, Lars

  • Dani: Release review for 4.7 was successful
  • Dani: Rebuild for 4.7RCa required due to new EMF version and a fix for a critical bug which resulted in duplicated menu entries
  • Merge of the sub-projects
    • Planned for M1, desired to be coordinated with the move of Equinox to Platform
    • We prefer to keep the project pages and wikis so that all the information is kept
    • Preferable we want to have one committer list for Eclipse platform
    • Dani to check with foundation how the merge can be done

May 30, 2017 - Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Dani: Please approve or disapprove the release review
  • Dani: Starting the Debugger doesn't work always
    • Occurs for Lars, but isn't reproducible - one of the top 3 things to fix if steps to reproduce are found
    • Lars: Equinox replaced the DS implementation in 4.7, the issue is probably related
    • Failure is totally random: On a very slow Virtual Machine, it failed almost always (9 failures out of 10); on other machine it works most of the time; even after working fine 3 times, it may fail the 4th time; seems to occur more frequently on older machines than newer ones.
    • Martin: try with a reverse debugger like Chronon ?
      • Should help by just collecting a log; and when the failure occurs, "play back" the log to understand under what condition the race condition occurs; the a reproducible case is available, and the log can also be sent around between different developers for investigation, potentiall also to Apache Felix upstream
  • Dani: Equinox Launcher Issues
    • During M7, a change was made to ignore certain command-line arguments
    • This caused 2 regressions - bug 517013 and bug 516349 MacOSX restart regression
    • Java 9 will probably change the parameters again, see bug 516911 :(
    • It's getting too late to make any more changes to the Launcher. Re-compiling on different hardware has already caused bug 517013, it's possible that more issues (not yet known) might be caused by the rebuild. With Java 9 probably changing again, we don't win much by rebuilding to try and align with something that's not yet released.
      • Option A: Put options into the eclipse.ini -- today it works for both Java 8 and Java 9
      • Option B: Add the "probably proposed" new option to the launcher, will need to rebuild the launcher again
      • Option C: Revert the launcher to what it was before (and well tested) back to M6 - for running with Java 9, the options have to be added manually
    • Users will have to read on a webpage what needs to be done for Java 9 launching; for Eclipse SDK, a single option is needed - some add-on components
      • Additional complexity: Different JVMs need different options (IBM, Oracle...)
      • Martin: bug 517452 Introduce a fallback mechanism to the launcher, which reads the Java ID and loads 'eclipse-javaID.ini' with a fallback to 'eclipse.ini', but does not seem reasonable for Oxygen since too late
      • Better to have a clean story: At IBM, the entire build environment changed ... reverting gets us back to a bullet-proof launcher that was tested for 7 milestones ... will work safely with Java 8, for Java 9 people will have to read the N&N or StackOverflow to find out about the right arguments - same as in Neon
  • AGREEMENT to revert the Launcher to the M6 version

May 23, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: Apache Batik XXE Vulnerability
    • Alex: Moving to Batik 1.9 would be good, but there is so much UI breakage that it's not viable for Oxygen
  • Martin: Bugs discovered during RC test cycle
    • Surprised that some low-priority issues do get attention (bug 517108) while others get no response at all (bug 517013
    • Dani: Only interested in severe issues and regressions - send message to platform-releng-dev with severe regressions found
    • Dani: Please +1 the Gerrit for bug 517108

May 16, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
    • Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
  • bug 509922 Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
    • Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
    • Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
  • Test failures: Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
    • Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
    • CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
    • UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
  • bug 516114 Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
    • Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
    • The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
    • That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
    • Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
      • The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
    • AGREEMENT: In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
      • Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
      • McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
  • Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
  • Alex: Project Structure
    • Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
    • Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
    • In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
    • Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
    • McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
    • Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
    • AGREEMENT to move forward on this, with a Platform Leadership group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.

May 9, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: JSR376 Jigsaw: 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
    • From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
    • JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
    • For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
    • JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
  • Dani: M7/RC0 - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
    • When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
      1. Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
      2. Section forms layout
  • Dani: httpcore 4.4.1 -> 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility
    • Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
    • People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
    • Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
    • Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
    • Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
    • AGREEMENT to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
  • Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
  • Dani: Release Review, does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
    • All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
    • McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
    • Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
    • Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
    • AGREEMENT to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.

May 2, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Lars: Regex Evaluator Plugin
    • Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
    • Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
    • McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
    • AGREEMENT to move code to (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at
  • Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
  • Dani: JSR Jigsaw Ballot
    • Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard

Apr 25, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Neon.3a
    • Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
      • AI Alex tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
      • Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem

Apr 18, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Dani: RH and Java9 Jigsaw
    • Very good write-up linked from the AC Mailinglist - see also follow-up
    • Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
  • Dani: Neon.3 Respin
    • Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
  • Lars: Glance Migration to e4 and/or Platform
    • e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
  • Lars
    • JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache

Apr 11, 2017 - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
  • Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.

Apr 04, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Martin: bug 514257 and cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue
    • Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
    • Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
    • Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
      • Commons Logging is not a Singleton
    • Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
  • Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
  • Dani: PPC - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week

Mar 28, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Replacement for Sergey
    • let's wait and see how things go
    • next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
  • Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
    • all agree
    • McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
  • Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
  • Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (

Mar 21, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Dirk Fauth Requests on eclipse-pmc
    • Alex agrees with Dani
    • Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
    • Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
  • Dani: Szymon Ptasiewicz

Mar 14, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Java 9 readiness - see cross-project-issues-dev
    • Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
      • Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
    • Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the Java 9 Readiness wiki can show violations
      • Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
      • Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
    • Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
    • All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
      • This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
    • Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
  • Dani: JUnit 5 considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
    • Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
  • Dani: 2 Platform Issues in M6
    • platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
    • major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
      • In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
      • In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
  • Alex: Generic Editor and Testing
    • Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
    • Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
    • Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
    • In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"

Mar 7, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars

  • Dani: 4.6.3 Updates - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
  • Dani: 4.7M7 Update - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
  • Dani: Java 9 / Planning Council Update - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
  • Lars: Platform.Resources Leadership after Sergey Leaving
    • Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
    • Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
    • Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
    • Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
    • Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept

Feb 28, 2017 - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Alex: Short update on Neon.3
    • 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
    • PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
  • Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
  • Martin: RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing

Feb 21, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey

  • Lars: bug 512273 Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and bug 512319 allow rebase
    • Agreement to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
    • Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
    • AI Lars follow up on the bug
  • Martin: UI Testing
    • RCPTT is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
    • Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
    • When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
    • Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
    • Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
      • Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
    • AI Martin follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
    • AI Alex share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
    • AI Lars play with the Reddeer API
  • Dani: Update on PPC drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs bug 512224
    • Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm AI Alex and Dani ask Denis
  • Dani: Neon.3 RC3 please keep an eye on builds
  • Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week

Feb 15, 2017

Feb 8, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: bug 509412 - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
    • Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
    • Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
    • Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
    • Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
  • Dani: Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform
    • Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
    • Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
  • Dani: Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server
    • Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
  • Dani: Scenarios for UI Testing
    • Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
  • Dani: Sign Up for Security Rep
    • See Wayne's message to PMCs requesting PMC attendance
    • John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
    • Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
    • RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up since already following security issues
  • Dani+Alex: libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC
    • Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
    • Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
    • Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
    • Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
    • Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
    • If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
    • AI Dani+McQ find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
  • Alex: Update on Reddeer Testing Framework
    • A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
    • Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
    • Martin has been looking at RCPTT which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
    • (call had to be closed at this point)

Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled

Jan 24, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: New Jetty Version - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
  • Dani: javax.xml - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
    • Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
  • Alex: Reddeer Testing Framework
    • JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
    • Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
      • Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
      • API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
    • Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
      • Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
      • No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
    • Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about RCPTT, it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
    • Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
      • Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
    • Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
    • Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --> Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
      • Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
      • AI Alex to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
      • AI Martin to try installing Jubula until next week
      • AI Martin ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.

Jan 17, 2017 - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ

  • Sergey: Merging platform.resources with platform.ui
    • Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
      • Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
    • Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
    • Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
    • Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
      • McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
    • Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
    • Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even bug 509412 was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
    • Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
    • McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
  • Lars: Removing javax.xml
    • Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
    • Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see
    • Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
    • McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
    • Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
    • AI Lars send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
  • Dani: Project Updates
    • Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
  • McQ: UI Testing and Jubula

Jan 10, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck

  • Dani: Platform Bits on Maven Central - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
  • Dani: Board Committer Rep Elections opening
  • Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
  • Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
  • Lars: Equinox move to Platform - no updates - AI Dani talk to Tom again
  • McQ / AlexS: Jubula
    • In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
    • Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
    • Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
    • AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
      • For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
      • Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
      • UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
      • Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
      • Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
      • Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure (AI AlexS to check)
      • Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
        • Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
      • AI AlexS send slides
      • AI Dani + Lars propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
      • AI AlexS check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started


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