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Revision as of 21:14, 21 November 2007 by (Talk | contribs) (New page: == Attending == Paul, Harm, Alex, Chris, Alex, Alan Haggarty oliver, Joanna, mikhail voronin == Logistics == * No updates to last weeks minutes * Any crisis items to move to early in Age...)

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Paul, Harm, Alex, Chris, Alex, Alan Haggarty oliver, Joanna, mikhail voronin


  • No updates to last weeks minutes
  • Any crisis items to move to early in Agenda?
    • no

Ganymede milestone delivery

Oliver asks about delivery from the 14th went fine yes? What were issues with delivery from 14th?

  • There remain some outstanding test results that need to be checked in
    • Automated GUI tests, Paul working with Joanna
      • No one had run them since June
    • Oliver notes we are going to have weekly milestones covering test and asks if this will help
      • Thought is that yes; we need to track it around test pass time.

On Weekly Milestones

Weekly schedules (TPTP_45_Weekly_Schedule)

Monitoring seems to have filled it pretty well.

  • Kudos to Alex
  • Alex notes there is lot going on in monitoring; many things happening
  • A few items slipped this week because
    • Just got a bunch of defects on logging that were unexpected.
      • Oliver asks is team working efficiently? Yes. In these cases, slips may be appropriate
    • It is also possible to update the milestone list when these changes become necessary.

Harm suggests that when we move an item from bucket to bucket that we grey or strikethru or annotate items as we move them so that we can track history.

  • Alex noted how he was doing it and there was general agreement to use this termininology.
    • Each item should be annotated "slipped" or "complete" after they are done

Discussion regarding Test project

  • Not a bunch of defects updated yet.
  • Thanksgiving break delayed work by one of the US engineers
  • Test automation initiative work in process but not in table yet.
    • Paul will put it in here.
    • Paul had intended to put "% of bugs" for each week rather than the specific defect numbers then fill in specific defect numbers about a week or so in advance.

To be clear, Oliver wanted milestone sheet fully fleshed out by all projects TODAY.

There was a question if the weekly milestone line items should indicate when work should start or when work should end.

  • Items marked with 28th of november are items for week of 21st-28th.

There was a question that if work on an item continues for multiple weeks if it should be annotated weekly with "continue" wording.

  • This is optional
  • Definately need to annotate start and end.

Discussion on Platform project

  • JSSE JNI implementation
    • Architectural issue that Sampson is looking at.
    • If design not done this week will start to worry about 441
  • Eclipse UI menu change called AGR tests probe editor/probekit to not run
    • Paul fixed one and other is in process
  • Joanna will get updates to milestone sheet in by next week.

Discussion on Trace Project

  • No items being developed _in_ Trace for 4.5 right now
    • Profiling enhancements and effort is actually under Platform.
  • Harm noted Trace project has 13 defects a number of which are targeted that should be tracked in Trace project
    • Ones targeted for 4.5 should appear along with annotation that most are delayed until Jan when replacement head at IBM should happen.
      • Harm noted that the "TBD head" will be Eugene coming back to the project

Team launched into discussion regarding where in milestone page work should be tracked. Examples:

  • Only enhancement under trace component is BTM related
    • Currently being tracked in monitoring
  • Enhancements for profiling are officially part of Platform Project

Harm suggests

  • that bugs are filed against components
  • components are contained in projects
  • projects are tracked
    • There items that each project commits to get done

Harm also suggests if we do not believe a component should be part of a project that we should talk about it and potentially move it to another project

PMC did NOT close on an official PMC position on where items must be tracked.

4.5 Defect and Tests Discussion

Oliver went thru this really quickly effectively giving each lead to state if they are not yet done with their ARs to clean up defect lists and test suites from previous meetings.

Oliver asks if each project know exactly what defects are to be targeted for 4.5?

  • Anyone NOT know what will be done in 4.5?
    • Nobody has disagreement
      • Assumption is that the bugzilla is cleaned up and we are ready to have queries used as per ARs from previous meetings.

Oliver asks if each project know exactly what tests will be run for each milestone and updated test criteria?

  • No stupid tests remain?
    • Nobody had disagreement
      • Assumption is that leads will not come up with missing or unwanted tests in future milestones test passes...

Test Automation Progress

Test automation estimation.

  • Paul has not yet gotten an estimate from different projects
    • Oliver is going to go talk to the board about value of the community
      • Get quality "testing' from the community for free.
      • Get Lead users of Ganymede as our test users to really flesh out and tune the release.
      • This data about overhead of porting to test automation and the long term benefits will form one of the value statements to the board.
  • AI to all leads to do this by next week.

Bugzilla and plan queries for 4.5

4.5 question: When will we get information on the web to reflect committed plan?

  • Paul updating 4.4 plan with 4.5 approved items
  • Paul will put his rendering on website.
    • Harm asks why this is not cleanly reflected bugzilla content. Reports are not readable today.
      • Looking at all projects, there are enhancements requests that are P4 that we have been talking about as going to be done.

Oliver thought everyone had decided what was in and out of 4.5

  • Harm notes that folks might have decided but fixed up bugzilla to fully reflect it.

Rules of thumb:

  • Plan keyword = item to be discussed for planning purposes
  • P1 setting = prioritized upward and project committed to provide it in the targeted release
  • P1 Items with Plan keyword are truely committed

See action item for all leads TPTP-PMC-20071031 (section 5 "4.5 bugzilla cleanup")

AI Paul will send out AG approved enhancements AI Paul will fix queries (not currently looking against all 4.5 milestones) AI Paul will finish a pass at HTML form of 4.5 doc for web page

-- On web site updates --- Basic stuff needs -- make sure that it is not misleading people. Hard to navigate

Profiler and Test Out of box initiatives

Oliver talked about launching discussion with potential lead uesrs.

  • Wait a week because Alex will be on vacation.
  • We will require users to use Ganymede Milestone drops

We discussed a bit about making profiler elegible for inclusion as a package in Java and/or J2EE bundles.

  • Mikhail noted a Comment he received at Eclipse world TPTP talk.
    • Package needed for standard profiling was "quite big"
  • One problem we have is Update manager pulls generic code (which requires all platforms).
    • Update manager needs changes to allow platform specificity.
  • We should be thinking of the % we are increasing the size (e.g., 6MB out of a 140MB download).

Oliver asked when to approach board on test initiative

  • After we have more internal data from TPTP project consumption.


Question on Trace coverage for next test pass (for items where IBM resource will come onboard next year)

  • For now Joe Toomey covering ARM
  • Eugene will be back to cover other committed areas

Jolt awards

  • Unfortunately, we missed deadline

EclipseCon submissions

  • Paul interested in feedback
  • 14 long talk submissions for 4 slots.

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