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Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013

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Revision as of 11:31, 8 January 2014 by (Talk | contribs) (Created page with "= Current Minutes = * Eclipse/PMC = 2013 Minutes = '''December 18, 2013''' - Dani, Martin, Andrew, McQ, John * Eclipse Logo discussion '''December 11, 2013''' - Dani, ...")

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Current Minutes

2013 Minutes

December 18, 2013 - Dani, Martin, Andrew, McQ, John

  • Eclipse Logo discussion

December 11, 2013 - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John

  • John: ide-dev discussion on settings
    • Some proposals had no discussion - line numbers default implemented already
    • Survey: people tend to like more warnings than less (learn about existence of warnings)
      • Dani: Some compiler warnings are incomplete or have issues ... epp can enable those, but JDT won't by default
  • John: bug 423734 Require Java 7 as minimum JRE to Launch EPP
  • John: Potential Eclipse Desktop / Orion integration project

(December 4, 2013 - canceled)

November 27, 2013 - Andrew, Dani, Martin

  • Dani: Standalone Eclipse Compiler for Java now requires Java 6 (target can be Java ME or older releases, but host must be Java 6)
    • Andrew will talk to OpenJDK people - might affect them for bootstrapping their compiler
  • Dani: bug 421321 - Change Eclipse-SourceReferences headers from 'git:' to 'http:'
    • Makes sense since easier for firewalls, but would require touching all bundles :(
    • AI Martin will comment on the bug -- handling this in the git CM provider makes more sense than converting all URI's
  • Andrew: Java 6 vs Java 7 - Platform provides Java 6, EPP requires Java 7
    • Project Plan / Reference Platforms: Should be testing on the latest publicly available JVM. Don't want to test on Previews.
    • Dani will switch the project plan to the "latest available" JVM updates.
  • McQ: New People Coming Online to work on SWT, JDT, PDE.
    • Andrew: Alex Kurtakov from Redhat also interested on Platform.

November 20, 2013 - McQ, Martin

  • McQ: Silenio stepping down as SWT Lead - Shift to Orion
    • Current work is well in hand

November 13, 2013 - Andrew, Dani, McQ, John, Martin

  • McQ: EclipseCon - 8 talks submitted. Ian looking for JavaScript talks.
  • John: Plan for Luna

November 6, 2013 - Andrew, Martin, Dani, McQ, John

  • Martin: Detached Views ? - what are people doing with them ? - Reach out to Eric Moffat / ask on UI-Dev mailing list
    • McQ: Main difference between 3.x detached views is that 3.x was just a view, in 4.x can define a layout in them
    • John: Always had the characteristic of being strongly coupled to a main window
    • McQ: In 4.x, there should be a way for doing any workflow you want
  • John: Discussion around Look and Feel in Eclipse 4
    • ide-dev BOF at ECE ; some of people's complaints look like low-hanging fruit (inactive tabs, color of drag boxes, ...)
    • Platform want to get out of the business defining the L&F of the EPP packages - should be a community effort
      • Dani: What Platform does should be usable
      • Martin: Diversity makes sense - consistency is important too, but you need to try things to know what can work. Today, community doesn't even know what is possible with the e4 styling, so moving forward and allowing more styles is a good thing now.
    • John: There's the Chrome theme on Marketplace which is quite popular ... Platform could just pick some Theming and ship it
  • McQ: Rumors on JDT - 11 active committers, 3 new in the past year - this is an Open Project
  • John ECE Hackathon went really well, 15 committers - lots of interest :)

October 30, 2013 - McQ, Dani, Andrew, Martin

  • Andrew: Excited by bug 379102 Kris Daniel patch for Shared Installs
  • Andrew: ECE Hackathon went well; "Let's make Eclipse Fun Again" BoF
  • McQ: Hackathon next week for BlueMax cloudfoundry (Orion)

October 16, 2013 - John, Dani, Andrew, Martin

  • Dani: Good progress on Java 8 - bug 380190 compiler work done - going to send something
  • Martin: bug 402509 Context Menu Filtering : Paul set to 4.4 for discussion as part of UI review; Martin still interested, could help with some resources (testing, or even implementation when architectural guidance is given)
  • IDE Working Group (IDE Working Group Proposal)
    • John: from PMC point of view, a good thing: sponsored contributors would be just like another group of contributors
    • Some companies prefer making code contributions but for other companies this is very impractical and might work better with a shut up and take my money model.
  • Andrew: Krzystof Daniel for commit rights on p2
    • It appears to be resolved already but we hope it doesn't have to come to this in the future.
    • Recent studies show that timely responses within 1 day (even "we'll respond in a month") will dramatically increase engagement

October 9, 2013 - John, Dani, Andrew, Martin

  • John: Builds - looks like things are under control
  • John: Help System Security Bug - bug 418443 only when help server is run on https, thus not an issue when run locally

October 2, 2013 - McQ, John, Dani

  • no discussion topics

September 25, 2013 - McQ, Andrew, Martin, John

  • Andrew: Commercial Support Thread - Directory of consultants to effect change when needed
    • Foundation to employ developers to "do whatever is best for the Platform" : Who decides on features, and where does the funding come from ?
    • There is precedent of Foundations employing developers... but don't think that "developers for hire" model could work
  • Martin: ide-dev discussion
    • A Platform team tries to come up with features and architecture that they think is valuable...
    • but there's not the same drive towards a product / UX that a commercial product has
    • Because of the nature how we do things, it's harder to get to a polished UX

September 18, 2013 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew

  • Mozilla: Orion vs CodeMirror as Editor - Speed of progressing on Editor features, Community size ?
    • CodeMirror addons can't be absorbed at Orion (licenses, provenance, etc.)
    • Can we prove that the Orion editor is better ?
    • What matters is our amount of commitment to "Development in the Cloud"

September 11, 2013 - McQ, John, Dani, Martin

  • John: RC4 navigaton history fix (bug 416902) - review
  • McQ: Focusing Ottawa on Orion
  • Martin: E4/Scripting progress. Homepage has links onto Requirements, EclipseCon Europe talk and more
    • McQ: Overlap with RAP when JavaScript is being used ?
  • John: Krzystof Daniel of Red Hat for committer / component lead

September 4, 2013 - No meeting

August 28, 2013 - Dani, John, Martin

  • Dani: Stardust adding features to SR1 - Planning Council exception - no objections
  • John: language tooling on ide-dev - where to host the work ?
    • Eclipse project/e4 proposed
    • Dani: What's the goal? - make it easier adding new languages, or refactor existing projects ?
      • Martin interested in cross-language crossreferencing
        • Lua tooling / C bindings, Java/JNI, Python C bindings, TCF, CORBA generated stubs/proxies, ...
      • Easier to create tooling for JVM-based languages
      • Common support for refactoring
      • ...
    • AC could be involved - makes sense for AC to be involved in a working group
      • In the end, it boils down to who steps up writing code
  • Martin: short update on scripting-dev ... making progress, code has been provided, e4 proposed as a home, no feedback yet

August 21, 2013 - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin

  • Dani: Still need the links to the torrents? Can we measure usage of torrents ? "Eclipse SDK" traffic is low these days anyways, would make sense for EPP only if ever
  • Martin: Some traffic these days on the eclipse-scripting-dev mailing list
    • John: Some UI would likely be simpler with e4 now ...
    • e4 would be a possible initial place for the project (incubator), initial basic hooks could even be put into the Platform
  • Luna M1 went pretty well

August 14, 2013 - Dani, Andrew

August 7, 2013 - Dani, Andrew, Martin, McQ

  • Dani - Moving to more frequent releases to be discussed at the PC today
    • McQ believes that aggregating monthly releases into a train can't work given the size of the train, so the monthly release wouldn't be useful to anyone
    • Martin agrees that as a commercial adopter, stability (of the yearly train) is key: new features are interesting in one or two projects but not in the train
    • Moving faster with the train can't be at the expense of no longer getting backports of bugfixes to those releases that I have chosen to adopt !
    • McQ: No more SR releases, but only converge the development streams every 4 months ? - Backports could be made but adopters would have to build themselves.
  • What causes most grief when adopting a new Platform version ?
    • Notifications have proven most problematic .. on either Resource / project system or XML / EMF models: subtle change of behavior can have a big impact when notifications trigger other notifications
      • Can it be fixed with a community effort ? [Not sure, most problems are in layers on top of the platform...]

July 31, 2013 - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin

  • ide-dev list : "Eclipse as an IDE" from a cross project / cross PMC point of view
    • Tools + Equinox + Packages ...
  • The "Uber Package..."
    • Not recommendable. Better to improve Marketplace ... not all Train projects are on the Marketplace.
    • Dani: As per the downloads page, it looks like the standard package doesn't have marketplace client ? - Martin: might be filtered; might be worth a bug if not visible.
  • Looking forward to discussions on ide-dev.

July 24, 2013 - McQ, Dani, John

  • Brief planning discussion. Kepler SR1 end-game plan released. Luna M1 is August 9th.
  • We will resume architecture team meetings on August 7th. John to remind team next week.
  • John will be away Aug 1-16

July 17, 2013 - McQ, Dani, John, Andrew

  • Brief discussion of the "code smells" thread on cross-project list
  • Overall positive discussion and we hope to see good things come out of it

June 26, 2013 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew, John

  • Andrew: Orion Browser API Standardization
  • John: More process around Kepler Maintenance Stream - 1 reviewer, similar to RC1 ?

June 19, 2013 - John, Dani, Martin

  • John/Dani: Kepler Retrospect
    • JDT Versioning: Bundles and features at 3.10 for Luna, Marketing version at 4.4
    • Freeze Plan: Worked fine for Platform, but others on the Train didn't quite play by the rules
      • Dani to replace John on the Planning Council (phone meeting once per month)
  • Rules of Engagement for Maintenance Releases
    • JDT is in the middle of a release cycle, since doing Java 8
  • bug 411132 Security Advisory regarding raw Javadoc - Eclipse help system not vulnerable, suggest improving the docs around "Help" setting to disallow opening external links

June 12, 2013 - McQ, John, Martin, Dani, Andrew

  • John: EclipseCon France Report - 2 day board meeting was good: strategic planning for what the Foundation should focus on
  • Dani: 4.3 ramp-down looks good ... but other projects on the release train ship significant changes late ?!?
  • Dani: Java 8 looking good
  • John: Planning - e4 vs compatibility layer
    • McQ: Because we want e4 to be a complete Platform, it makes sense to look at our own editors and see what it takes to have them run on pure e4
    • But that's on a case-by-case basis only
    • There's still a lot of confusion around e4

May 29, 2013 - Dani, Andrew, Martin

  • Dani: 4.3 Release Update - looking good, some minor doc fixes only for RC4.
  • Martin: 4.3 Standard Package with egit and mpc - also looking good.
    • Minor binary diffs traced down to an "encoding" flag in the JAR format which is not significant (see bug 408944)
    • Automated comparison of SDK against EPP are still possible when unzipping all Jar's and comparing the contents (actually listing contents with unzip -v is also fine)

May 22, 2013 - Dani, Martin, John, McQ

  • John: 4.3 Update - still 100 bugs open with 4.3 target milestone, need a reminder
    • There's still some Platform/UI 4.3 Backlog - some keybindings, activation, about dlg; need to make some decisions what's in or what's out
    • Don't work on the list until the last day ... for any 2 bugs fixed, there's probably 1 introduced so need to ramp down
    • Release review: Docs, N&N looking good
  • Google Android announcement - IntelliJ is well integrated and polished, but Eclipse has more plugins ... the 2 concepts are somewhat at odds
    • Just one in the large ecosystem - but need to watch for a trend of others moving away

May 15, 2013 - Dani, Martin, John, McQ

  • John: Switching focus from Orion to Eclipse Platform for the endgame - will be away first week of June
  • Mike Milinkovich did a demo on Orion in the Zurich lab and at the Eclipse Stammtisch Zurich

May 8, 2013 - Dani, Martin, John, Andrew, McQ

  • Dani: bug 403149 Removing Tycho Dependency - AI John comment on the bug
    • Martin would like to see a simple Doc page somewhere that explains how to fix the versions
    • Dani thinks that any serious build would update pom versions automatically as part of the build
  • Martin: bug 402509 context menu filtering - request gentle nudge
  • John: Will switch to Asterisk for the PMC from next week on - AI McQ update the invite

May 1, 2013 - John, Dani, Andrew, McQ

  • John: LTS now running IBM Juno maintenance builds in LTS forge. Some small details still being worked out.
  • Dani: Gerrit can be configured to deny non-fast-forward merges. We agreed to request that all Eclipse project Gerrit repositories be configured in this way. See bug 402791 for details.
  • Dani: Request for JUnit bundle to stop re-exporting Hamcrest bundle. Hamcrest was originally part of JUnit so this was done for compatibility reasons. We agreed that we will not do this because it breaks all users of JUnit bundle. See bug 403676 for details.

April 24, 2013 - John, Dani, Martin

  • Dani: Upload Freeze Plan
  • Dani: Java 8 Update
  • John: Pawel stepping down as Platform/Debug Lead
    • Leaves Pin & Clone orphaned for next year. Working sets for expression view also not in Kepler.

April 17, 2013 - John, Dani, Martin

  • Martin: New Classic Package - Will commit SDK branding, and Egit Capability def
    • CSS - Should inherit proper styling from Platform (most probably OK)
  • John: API Baselines - remind teams to set API baselines
  • Martin: bug 402509 context menu filtering - request gentle nudge
  • John: Triage of Platform UI issues to be addressed

April 3, 2013 - McQ, Dani, John, Andrew

  • John: Kepler draft plan update ready, please take a look and provide comments
  • We discussed EclipseCon. It was a very good event for Eclipse project. On desktop community is moving forward on Eclipse 4. There was lots of good feedback, and very little grumbling. Orion was very well represented, lots of talks and demos from several companies adopting it.

March 20, 2013 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew

  • Dani: Java 8 - jdt.core making very good progress - almost everything compiles in the editor
  • Dani: pom files update - to be discussed in the arch call
  • Martin: bug 402509 Context Menus - no feedback, ping again
  • Martin: bug 145635 Pin & Clone
    • Dani - the feature itself is good and makes sense, would also like it in JDT
    • The UI metaphor is new and would need some testing in the Field - McQ would like the patch in ASAP in a way that doesn't cause more swirl to start experimenting
    • CDT would need to adopt it, upstream changes needed
    • Current implementation showed quite a lot of ripples and bugs
      • Current impl breaks existing workflows, that's the big problem
    • John: only 1 milestone left, if it appears in M7 and breaks any adopters they have little time to react;
      • Can loop-in JDT and CDT, but there might be others ...
      • Was PTP involved in any way ? They could also be broken, they have very special requirements
    • McQ: Do we have ownership of this work ? - If we have a clear need and a clear owner working on it we could give it a try
    • AI Martin (1) Clarify with CDT why they didn't like the feature and what are their plans; all the rest comes after that eg PTP, Pawel, can it be done in a non-breaking way
  • John: bug 402912 Significant Memory Leak in M6 fixed this week: noticable if eclipse running for a long time
    • Workaround for M6: Turn off Workbench Autosave feature by setting it to 0
    • AI Post to cross-project - people doing demos at Eclipsecon might want to use the workaround
  • Martin: bug 397896 New Classic Package - initial package done but unusable while the SDK branding bundle's contents is not migrated
    • Martin will continue pushing for this to happen - fallback would be not
    • Not much risk in judging whether it's good or not, only binary diff needed
  • John: bug 380325 Java 7 filesystem fragment
    • McQ do we know performance implications, could we get rid of the native bundles ?
    • Martin would like to have the fragment in all builds, to make it easier to test performance etc implications
  • Martin: bug 403589 eclipse.inf
    • Different binary bits depending on distribution channel is bad ... Tycho removed
    • Defect in post-processing (why does it add eclipse.inf) or defect in bundle preparation (why isn't eclipse.inf in there) ?
    • Maybe related to pack200 conditioning - Martin thinks that eclipse.inf was used in the past as a marker to know whether pack200 conditioning has happened ... now downstream aggregator conditions and adds eclipse.inf
    • AI John investigate

March 13, 2013 - McQ, John, Martin, Dani

  • Andrew: bug 397896 final throughts on the EPP package
    • Move forward with [1]
    • Testing - could find someone if it's just "use during the test pass"
    • Q: Can the EPP build be done frequently so it's available 1 week before the milestone for testing ?
  • Martin: bug 402509 context menu filtering
    • Would like to get some advice from Platform on the approach; some trajectory of a solution moving forward
    • Not a must-have for Kepler, but would like to see where this is heading
    • AI McQ find Platform folk to discuss this
  • John: Eclipse 4 API Status
    • Publishing a "usable subset" of the former provisional API as final: model, core services; consume injection
    • Allows building a real Eclipse 4 App now on API
      • Mostly clean-up, documentation; removing some bad stuff
      • Writing an App on Kepler E4 API might actually be able to run on Juno
    • Some of the advanced stuff remains provisional for now, eg define injection
  • John: Plan Update - No permission to update in the PMI
  • McQ: CBI / Bad Launcher
    • Have an idea that doing some little extra work after the CBI build might be good enough for now
    • HP-UX CBI Build doesn't start out of the box (will likely stay a known issue for M6)
  • Martin: bug 380325 Java7 EFS Plugin: Build ?

March 6, 2013 - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew

  • Martin: bug 402509 context menu filtering
    • AI Martin ask engineers document what we're doing today
  • Martin: bug 397896 EPP vs Classic - how to proceed
    • Martin's recent findings on Marketplace
      • There's p2, Marketplace, Packages in the Open but they are only parts of the solution
      • There's commercial installers from EclipseSource (Yoxos), Genuitec, IBM
      • John: p2 simplified UI (eg Webtools Server Adaptors; Mylyn)
    • What's missing ? David too booked ?
  • John: CBI Builds in Kepler - SDK in good shape but repo and Equinox downloadpage not quite right yet, some might take until M6
  • John: Delete old Platform/UI Branches - any PMC Policy ? No, convert branches to tags
  • John: API Freeze next week - some (modest) new Eclipse 4 API's
    • McQ recommends going for a "complete, but minimal subset of what people will want to do", rather than too many convenience methods
    • John: Some API has been provisional for 3 years - can't make wholesale changes now for the fun of it
      • May phase in some changes by adding @noreference rather than deleting stuff
      • In some cases there's pressure to use interfaces rather than classes, in order to be able and leverage Java 8 constructs
  • Orion - anybody going to JSConf ?

February 27, 2013 - John, Andrew, Dani

  • Nothing noteworthy

February 20, 2013 - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Andrew

  • John: Orion Release Review, please give feedback

February 13, 2013

February 6, 2013 - John, Dani, Martin

  • John: M5a and SR2 RC4
  • John: Pawel and Platform / Debug work (Pin & Clone)
    • Only adopt when it's really ready and satisfies all criteria, otherwise not into Kepler
    • Maybe pull out Debug plugins into a feature of their own ?

January 30, 2013 - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Andrew

  • John: SR2 RC3 looking good - want to know about any remaining issues
  • Dani: Java 8 Update - Markus Keller will move from JDT UI to JDT Core, taking over JSR-308
  • John: NODE Dependency in Orion (exempt pre-req)
    • Not shipping NODE ourselves, pushing to NODE package manager instead (or clone from git)
    • Andrew: Is it a workswith ?
    • Martin: Is there any overlap with the Java portion ?
      • The server code is completely distinct from Java, but the same client can interact with both

January 24, 2013 -

  • Martin: 4.3 and 3.8 dual-stream - Webtools project plan
    • egit, mylyn, dtp have been doing both n + n-1 for a long time
    • Technically, running on both should be possible if Platform API is used (except for the changes in Theming)
    • The Eclipse Community needs to advance the latest (4.3)
    • IBM product teams have been told not to forward at all if they can't forward to 4.x - shipping on 4.2
    • John: Having wider ranges of tolerance is something we should be able to do (otherwise our plugin system is failing)
    • John: Java8 will be the first killer feature in 4.x
  • Dani: Java 8
    • Will provide feature patches as soon as it makes sense - early draft, participating in expert group
    • Want to have the compiler and editor ready when Java 8 goes GA - initial refactoring etc in SR1 - full feature set in the next release
  • John: CBI update
    • Consider switch after M5

January 17, 2013 - McQ, John, Martin

  • John: bug 397896 EPP vs Classic
    • Could volunteer to own the EPP package from Platform POV
    • Then Wayne would own the decision of RCP/RAP vs Classic - what's the difference, keep both or unify
  • John: Test Failures on I-Builds
    • Move away tests that have been failing for 9 months
    • Dani: Most tests are actually down to 0 failures
  • John: CBI / Maven Builds
    • Appears to be fragile at the moment - Maven .micro releases are breaking the build!

January 10, 2013 - McQ, John, Dani, Martin

  • McQ: CBI - Switching Platform build to CBI for SR2 is not doable
    • Want to make CBI work for Juno since it's the LTS stream
    • CBI SDK builds are good at this point, it's only a couple of minor issues (shape of repos, download page, ...
    • When to switch to CBI in the Kepler Stream ? - Proposal do do it immediately
  • CBI patches waiting for Platform to pick up

January 3, 2013 - McQ, Andrew, John, Dani

  • Andrew will recommend good conferences to promote Orion


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