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Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every wednesday at 10.30am EST.

Meeting Minutes

May 27: - McQ, Martin, Steve

  • bug 277735 copyright tool - Martin would like to see it released. Discuss in Arch call.

May 20: - McQ, Martin

  • PC Lead: John A suggested to represent Eclipse
  • Linux: New Launchers built, didn't start on Linux ... I-build was broken, want to know why

May 13: - McQ, Martin, Jeff, Steve, Philippe

  • bug 273660 Common Navigator: Pipelining issues with JDT + CDT

May 6: - McQ, Martin, Jeff

  • McQ PDE Feature Request
    • New Target Platform came in late
    • PMC agrees with trying to fix this, but want to see the final patch before +1
  • McQ Testplan
    • People going to test their own because test plan is too complex
  • Jeff Splash Screen

Apr 29: - McQ, Martin, Steve

  • Martin: Java6 ref platform - anything between 6u3 and 6u10 (exclusive) was broken, anything after 6u10 (inclusive) has license issues in thirdpartylicensereadme.txt.
    • Suggestion: Dont update the plan document yet, but start running tests with 6u13 on Linux. AI McQ talk to Kim about this.
    • AI Martin make a final attempt to get more info out of Sun.
  • Steve: Solaris x86 - looks good but some problems with X server
  • McQ: API Deprecation Policy bug 261544 - AI McQ synthesise some summary and comment on the bug
  • M7: Testers found some interesting prolbems with launching Eclipse from Eclipse (depending on VM, BIDI chars in paths dont work)

Apr 22: - McQ, Martin, Steve, Philippe

  • Steve: Solaris x86 - got a Browser running, looking good,
  • Steve: Cocoa Sheets - new API - Dialogs associated with a Window: Dialog slides down from title bar
    • Clients need to opt in through new API because they need to specify a dialog as being adequate for sheet support
  • Martin: Maintenance builds post SR2
    • experience in the past has shown only very few, surgically isolated patches so the problem is probably smaller than anticipated
    • don't want anything produced to appear official -- anything that appears official MUST result in a test pass and this must be avoided
    • it makes sense to talk about this in the context of "Release Train" and not only "Eclipse Platform" -- Martin filed bug 273262 against the AC
  • Martin has some update on Sun Java 6 -- will update bug 261724

Apr 15: - McQ, Jeff, Martin, Steve

  • McQ: Solaris x86 - OK if we get the machine up and running until Friday, too late for swapping reference platform otherways
  • Polish List Polish3.5 - Some developers don't have time for polish items. For now, it's just a list such that we *know* what's coming up.
    • Martin wondering why we need a separate wiki page, bugzilla query should be enough?
    • Who owns the Polish list - Eclipse Project Committers. We capture items that we find "stupid" when using Eclipse ourselves.
  • Maintenance builds after 3.4
    • IBM will never consume any community builds: want the absolute minimum of required fixes
    • If a fix shows up in any IBM product, then it is on a bug somewhere
    • But fixes are never cumulative
    • Martin thinks that a first step would be well-defined markup of such "released-to-product" fixes.
    • Another next step is allowing Eclipse builds by the Community -- we can do anything that's not making Kim's life harder.
    • How to proceed with communications: open bugs, bugzilla discussions.

Apr 1: - McQ, Jeff, Martin, Steve, Philippe

  • McQ: Solaris x86 (recommend building since Sun helped at Eclipsecon), Perf results (not trustworthy on Windows?)
  • Martin: M-builds beyond 3.4.2
    • Two problems: (a) provide a build system that the community can use, and (b) provide a platform for accumulating fixes easily without risking version collisions etc
      • The risk of (b) is high that as a result we'd have some low-quality sea of incompatible fixes. We better don't go with this.
    • Other solution is allow to cherry-pick on source level - just provide a new target milestone in bugzilla, product builders cherry-pick patches they want to apply and do so locally.
  • Jeff: OSGi tooling; future plans around build
    • We need to run builds ourselves (see also above) - e.g. equinox sdk feature is in some internal repository
    • PDE build has stretched pretty far over time.. what to do with it
      • Needs to be one of the main plan items for 3.6, but don't want to wait that long
      • SAP perhaps to help out with staffing
  • Boris to host the arch call since Steve, McQ, Philippe all cannot join

Mar 18: - McQ, Steve, Martin

  • no arch next week due to EclipseCon
  • McQ found a performance test that is 8000% slower
    • teams are overwhelmed (but remind them to check performance tests)
  • Martin reminded us about use of Parallel IP for Mature Projects and JSch-0.1.41
    • need to identify uses on the download links (or also inside the downloads?)
    • EMO has not developed the policy yet
    • McQ: "Q: Should we just not use the mechanism?"
    • Downstream consumers may need to test against new lib features early. Just for test and experimentation, not for consumption: want parallel IP in I-builds
    • McQ: Milestones are a corner case -- some consumers use these in products!
    • Parallel IP is a tool for projects who want it. A clear policy is one thing. Guidelines for projects to adopt it or not is another thing -- may depend on the number and kind of consumers.
    • Result: Martin to Bring up that topic on the Architecture Council/Meetings/March 22 F2F EclipseCon 2009,
      • Example issues: can't put it in for I-build and remove for Milestone S-build

Mar 11: - McQ, Steve, Jeff, Martin

  • Martin - bug 227055 and late API additions
    • McQ: after m6 is too late if it has any downstream impact (changing behavior, deleting things, ...). Plain API additions may slip a week.
    • Steve: If new API has effect on performance and polish, may look more favorably.
    • If going in after M6, it needs to go through the process (e-mail and public discussion on eclipse-pmc list).
    • Strict API Tooling checks to be enabled next week
  • McQ - state of M6; some late UI things to review
    • Some low-risk polish Cocoa items for Eclipsecon (enablers)
    • Still changes in p2 (after m6), but stabilizing
  • Martin/Jeff - New Target Platform Page may require more tweaking - risk of breaking community workflows!
    • E.g. adding a directory to the target platform; Jeff uses target platforms a lot, so he's likely more exposed than most of the Community... 10 to 15 locations with hundreds of bundles...
    • Related to the bug 224145 p2 "extension location" problem which broke user workflows. Don't want to have such breakage again.
  • Jeff - Status on Galileo Must do's - deferred to next week
  • McQ - p2 OSGi OBR Repositories
    • Jeff: OSGi wants to foster bundle store / bundle repositories, and specify a repository standard (long-standing RFE112 never been ratified)
    • Similar to p2, but does have some potential issues
    • Ideally, Equinox would be the reference impl of whatever standard comes up... but got a staffing problem, how to get the solution standardized that we need.
      • Writing a p2 OBR repository adapter is not hard, but OBR repos won't be able to eat p2 metadata
    • p2 doesn't care about XML format whereas OBR specifies the XML. p2 got more sophisticated API model. Jeff doesn't have access to the latest spec.
  • Steve wants Eclipsecon demos to be done on Cocoa, will expedite any bugfixes (please do file them!). Jeff needs browser integration.

Mar 4: - McQ, Steve, Jeff, Philippe, Martin

  • Upgrade 3.4 -> 3.5
    • Will we be able to support this in p2?
      • Nope, needed hooks already in previous release (ie. needed them in 3.4 to be used by 3.5)
    • Problems include replacing the Eclipse .exe
    • Is this an important use case? There is no band width to solve this problem in 3.5
    • it's a good showcase for p2 technology
    • idea: put in the low level hooks for 3.5.1 and use them next time (ie. 3.5 -> 3.6)
    • Did Update Manager ever do this?
      • Jeff: It does not
  • Deprecating Mac carbon?
    • Apple claims Cocoa is the future
    • 3.5 will be the last version of Eclipse where Carbon is under active development
      • But will maintain for 3.6 and 3.7
    • Q: Has Apple officially deprecated carbon?
      • No but they have down played it (ie. no 64-bit support for carbon)
    • Should there be an official deprecation policy for platforms?

Feb 25: - McQ, Steve, Martin, Philippe

  • AC "committers should know" mail
    • Following external links McQ why not introduce some Javascript on the server that warns users automatically when they follow an external link?
    • Components to projects flattening (not on our plate at the time)
  • Steve Target milestones for Eclipse project
  • BZ patches to be flagged when they contain API
  • N-builds broken over the weekend (again) - 3 weekends in a row - no people currently who are willing to work during the weekend
    • Hudson might help eventually, for now using e4 builds as the guinea pig
  • UI Forms has no committers - opportunity for Community to become committer
    • migrate off (using internal browser instead)
    • no critical bugs, less than 125 interesting bugs
    • long-term future is e4 with css/styling and declarative ui
  • Performance: No news (not yet while closing down API)
    • Philippe thinks that the performance milestone must be earlier since performance might touch on API. We're losing memory because rebasing
    • McQ - this cycle we had a performance run in M2, this year we're in a better position than last year

Feb 18: - no meeting

Feb 11:

Feb 4:

Jan 28:

  • Java 6
    • move reference platform to Sun 6u11
      • problem(?): Sun added 3 new items added that are licensed LGPL or GPL
      • Ok green.gif Martin added comment to bug 261724 to identify this issue
  • ICU 4.0
    • we will stay with 4.0
  • Deprecation Policy
  • Use of internal provisional
    • seems to be some consensus about *not* requiring this, bug 261874
  • JDT co-leadership
    • what is the process?
      • Jeff: vote in community; then propose to the PMC
      • Would like to get Dani Meghert involved.
      • Philippe will check development process documents
  • Cocoa port
    • Looking good
    • Taking early access off and making it the "first" choice for Mac downloads
  • Milestone progress / 3.4.2
    • Need to discuss M5 in arch call (should have done this last week)
    • Should always remind the team in the arch call of upcoming deadlines
    • Performance issues that need API to fix have to happen by M6
      • Teams should understand performance results (will be discussed in a couple of weeks)
  • Re: Reference Platforms
    • Java6 on Solaris
      • Martin's company would like to support this
      • Ok green.gif filed bug 262907 to discuss process and practices around reference platforms

Jan 21:

  • How should we track meeting minutes topic - Wiki
  • Provisional API conventions - Jeff working on bug 261874 for discussion at the AC
    • should there be a tag in the Javadoc (ie. "experimental")?
    • Jeff wants to keep the concerns "conventions" vs "Javadoc" separate
    • Jeff, "... Javadoc should not be generated for provisional ..."
    • Martin disagrees, "... need feedback and discussion for new API ..."
  • What is the role of the PMC lead?
    • global view of components/processes
    • organize architecture call, ensure we are on track
    • spark conversations (ie. M5 is feature freeze)
  • Reference platforms
    • we should choose JDK1.6, "update 11" rather than "update 4"
    • around "RC time", solidify the reference platform (it is the one we are testing on)

Jan 14:

  • PMC component ownership x bugzilla pmc authorization

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