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= Documents =
 
= Documents =
 
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
  
Line 11: Line 10:
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 +
'''April 28, 2021''' - Tom, Alex
 +
* Mac M1 changes are in to move to aarch64
 +
* Discussed progress on Jar signing issue for Java 16
 +
** Progress being made but will require some change in behavior of the Equinox SignedContent API
 +
** Will result in deprecation of at least one method
 +
** Working towards M3 solution.
 +
* Discussed move to PGP verification as alternative to signed JAR verification to p2
 +
** Progress being made there, hopefully get something for M3
 +
 +
 +
'''Mar 31, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars
 +
* Java 16 jar signing issue
 +
** Tom wants to replace equinox implementation with builtin Jar file implementation so changes don't have to be done in Equinox on each release
 +
* JSP/Jetty story in IDE
 +
** Do we still need same functionality?
 +
** Alex - get out of the business for help system. Dependencies (jetty, lucene) generate more releng work than we can handle.
 +
** McQ - url for plugin help would be simplest and open it in browser
 +
** Any change (e.g. JSP removal) has to go through standard deprecation period, announcements and etc.
 +
** Alex to initiate communication on longer term plan with Holger who works on improvements to help system lately
 +
 +
 +
'''Mar 31, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex
 +
 +
* PMC call time
 +
** Overlaps with Planning council call and both Tom and Alex can't make both
 +
-> Decision: Skip PMC call every first Wed of the month
 +
 +
* Webpage Hugo migration
 +
** Recommended by Eclipse Foundation and active contributor to do the conversion
 +
** Concerns about mixing old and new content are raised but they don't look severe
 +
** Supported by PMC
 +
-> Tom to handle initial communication on behalf of PMC
 +
 +
* Planning process relevance
 +
** the planning process is not providing the detailed and usable plans from the past
 +
** not a pain point as fewer people participate it but looks like useless exercise quite often
 +
** to be discussed....
 +
  
'''June 14, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars
+
'''Mar 24, 2021''' - Tom, Alex, Lars
* McQ: '''Mattermost / Slack''' for communication
+
** not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
+
* Lars: '''Master is Open'''
+
** Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
+
** Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
+
** Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes ({{bug|360703}}) is open to improve that)
+
** We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
+
* Lars: '''Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ?''' - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
+
* McQ: '''Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che''' (from [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ide-dev/ ide-dev] mailing list and {{bug|496114}})
+
** The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
+
** The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
+
*** People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
+
** The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
+
** How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
+
*** At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
+
*** But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
+
* Dani: '''What goes into the Neon Update Releases'''
+
** as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
+
** '''AI: Dani''' will prepare a note
+
* Dani: '''Using Sound in Eclipse'''
+
** Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see {{bug|496003}})
+
** Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
+
** Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
+
** McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so '''that''' should really be leveraged
+
** Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
+
** Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
+
** Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.
+
  
'''June 7, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex
+
* Pack 200 - API removal in 2 years - 2023-06
* no topics
+
** Should we turn off all pack 200 features in one year, make it consistent across all Java versions.
 +
** 2022-06 - disable pack200 for all Java versions. Calling the deprecated API will be a no-op
  
'''May 31, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex
+
* Pack 200 - When can we stop generating? Agreed on 2021-09 release.  We should set the precedence as early as possible to stop producing pack200 artifacts.
* Dani: '''IP Log'''
+
** The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
+
** In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
+
* Dani: '''Release Review'''
+
** Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
+
* Dani: '''Update Jetty to 3.9.3'''
+
** Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
+
* Dani: '''RC4 Status Update'''
+
** Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command
+
  
'''May 24, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin
+
* split packages
* Dani: '''IP Log Generator''' - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
+
** Causing issues with mandatory directive and p2 {{bug|360659}} and with tycho.
* Dani: '''Release Review''' - Deadline next week (June 2)
+
** Currently tycho requires some work arounds for usage of split packages
* Dani: '''Deprecation Request from Brian'''
+
** Can we work to get rid of split packages. We agreed to investigate the work and move to combine split packages if possible.
** Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
+
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date'''
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
+
** Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
+
** Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
+
** This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
+
* Dani: '''Neon Status'''
+
** Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''May 17, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
 
* Dani: '''{{Bug|475184}} Neon Plan Update 2'''
 
** Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
 
** SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
 
*** Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
 
**** Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
 
*** Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
 
** Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
 
** '''AI Dani''' to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
 
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date''' - EMO: To be decided per project
 
** IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
 
** Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
 
*** gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
 
** Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
 
* Dani: '''Policy for Neon.Update Releases''' - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
 
** Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
 
** Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
 
** Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - '''decision''': discuss feature by feature at PMC
 
** Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
 
** In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
 
* Dani: '''Neon RC2 Builds Update'''
 
** Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
 
** Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
 
** GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
 
** Lars: {{bug|493477}} detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''Mar 17, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars
'''May 10, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
+
* SWT Chromium support
* Dani: '''Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases'''
+
** Still no recent version of Chromium with security patches
** Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
+
** Will be dropped in M1 (if no recent version is provided in the next weeks or if no one steps up)
* Martin: '''RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2'''
+
** GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
+
*** Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
+
** Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
+
*** Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
+
*** There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
+
*** Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
+
** Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
+
*** Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
+
*** Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)
+
  
<hr/>
+
* Pack 2000 support
'''May 3, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
+
** not supported anymore as of Java 14
* [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02598.html Brian's request on the PMC list]
+
** will be deprecated and marked for removal
** McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
+
** Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
+
** Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...
+
** McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
+
** Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
+
** '''ACTION''' McQ to -1 and argue why.
+
  
* Alex: '''Update on Accessibility'''
+
* Moving Eclipse repos to Github
** broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
+
** Moving to Github might simplify and therefore increase contributions
** due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
+
** Huge amount of work in releng
** Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
+
** Potentially we should all subprojects at the same time
*** and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
+
** We check if the foundation plans to move everything to Gitlab
** Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''April 26, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ
 
* Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
 
* Alex: '''Accessibility''' - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
 
** Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
 
** McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
 
* Alex: '''Platform.ui generification of project'''
 
** Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
 
** McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
 
** Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
 
** Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
 
** '''ACTION Alex''' to prepare a message for review and then send that.
 
* Lars: '''Copyright discussion'''
 
** Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
 
** The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
 
* Dani: '''Update on FEEP'''
 
** Paul not reached out yet
 
** A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
 
* Dani: '''Update on M7'''
 
** Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
 
** Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full
 
  
<br/>
+
'''Mar 10, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex
'''April 19, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)
+
* Moving to Jetty 10 for next release
* Dani: '''IP Stuff''' on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
+
* platform-dev discussion about move to GitHub
* Dani: '''FEEP''' discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
+
** conversation is useful, but would take a lot of planning
** General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
+
** lots of current rel eng dependencies on Gerrit
** Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
+
*** need more community help for rel eng issues
** Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
+
** a massive amount of history in our Bugzilla
* Dani: '''All PMC please review and +1 API requests''' when you find time
+
* release record and proto-plan created for 4.20
** McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
+
* '''Reviews vs. Features'''
+
** Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora
+
  
<br/>
 
'''April 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex
 
* Lars: '''Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement'''
 
** [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=485257#c13 bug 485257_c13] EMO: All information is in the git repos
 
** McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
 
** Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
 
** '''ACTION''' McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
 
  
* Lars: '''{{bug|490012}} Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE'''
+
'''Febr 17, 2021''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
** Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
+
* Looks good for 4.19 release
** Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
+
* Mac ARM has to wait for the 4.20 release, as the team fights multiple issues
** Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
+
* Top-level project page can currently only be edited by Tom, other PMC members also have access to it https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/eclipse/who
** '''DECISION''' to get rid of the strict error per project.
+
  
* Dani: '''{{bug|475934}} API Change on model processing order'''
 
** Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
 
** McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
 
** McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
 
*** Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
 
*** Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
 
*** Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
 
** Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
 
** '''DECISION''' to allow making the change and announce widely.
 
  
* Dani: '''FEEP and EMO Hiring Update'''
+
'''Dec 15, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
** EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
+
* 06. January 2021 is the next meeting
** Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
+
* How can PMC increase the awareness of the project leads / committers?
** Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
+
** Maybe invite the project leads once per month to the PMC meeting?
 +
** Discussion how we can increase the JDT community
  
* Dani: '''IDE-dev proposal'''
 
** People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
 
** Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
 
*** McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
 
*** OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''Dec 01, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
'''April 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
+
* RC1 is out; final touches on RC2
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
+
* How can we remove the confusion about "e4" project?
** Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
+
** e4 has always been intended to be a sandbox project where people could try things that are experimental or are on a longer timeline
** Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
+
** Should be renamed to make it clear this isn't about leftovers from the Eclipse 4.0 work (maybe "eNext"?)
** Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
+
** Should clean up repos
* Dani: '''Solaris 32-bit'''
+
*** Remove repos that just hold code that has already moved to the platform
** Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
+
*** Remove repos that are no longer getting any investment
** Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
+
*** Work toward moving things that are active/useful into the platform (e.g. "spies" to PDE)
*** Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
+
** McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
+
* Dani: '''New Solstice Welcome'''
+
** Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
+
** Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
+
** McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
+
* Alex: '''FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)'''
+
** "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
+
*** Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
+
*** It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
+
*** McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
+
** Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
+
*** '''AI Dani''' send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
+
*** '''AI Martin''' compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
+
** Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
+
** Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
+
*** McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
+
*** Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
+
*** McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal '''Transparency''' on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
+
*** McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
+
**** Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: '''THIS''' is what the FEEP should have adressed !
+
** Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
+
** Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
+
*** McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
+
** Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
+
* Lars '''Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy'''
+
** Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).
+
  
<hr/>
+
'''Nov 24, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
'''March 29, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex
+
* PMC is considering the potential of an SDK / IDE working group at the foundation
* Lars: '''PDE Build in Maintenance''' - Officially state this ?
+
** PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
+
** Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
+
** McQ: '''DECISION''' Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
+
* Lars: '''Integrate more projects into Platform UI?'''
+
** Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
+
** Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
+
** Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
+
** '''DECISION''' to not merge projects at this time.
+
* Lars: '''Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list'''
+
** McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
+
** Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
+
** Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. '''AI Dani''' notify mailing list.
+
* Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
+
** Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"
+
  
<hr/>
+
* Discussion Do we need the extra releng work to create p2 repositories for milestones?
'''March 22, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
** Lot of extra work and sometimes goes wrong
* Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
+
** All I-Builds are anyway available
* Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
+
* Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
+
* Discussion about Che
+
** McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
+
** Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
+
** McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?
+
  
<hr/>
+
-> PMC decided to drop the additional p2 repository
'''March 15, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
-> Alex will be sending out an email about it to inform potential users of the special p2 repos
* Dani: '''Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)'''
+
* Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
+
* McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
+
* Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
+
* Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
+
** Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
+
** Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
+
** Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
+
* VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
+
** Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
+
** Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)
+
  
'''March 8, 2016''' - No call
+
** Discussion about the purpose of the milestone week at all
 +
-> Decision not to change the process for now, as the additional testing and focus has also some benefits
  
<hr/>
 
'''March 1, 2016''' - Dani, Martin
 
* Dani OOO next week
 
* Alex: '''{{bug|179924}} SSH-agent authentication''' 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
 
** Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
 
** Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
 
* EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''Nov 17, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
'''February 23, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex
+
* Release 4.18 winding down
* Dani: '''Mars.2 is on track'''
+
** SWT churn for Linux and Mac Big Sur
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
+
** Does not appear the Foundation got the new Mac Hardware for testing
** EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
+
* Planning Council discussion
* Dani: '''Update on Welcome'''
+
** Dani filled the Eclipse TLP representation role on the Council
** Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
+
** Alex can take the lead to that role
* McQ: '''Scrollbars on Windows''' and their appearance
+
** Alex will look to find a replacement for the tools TLP representative
** Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
+
** Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
+
** McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
+
** Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
+
** Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
+
** Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).
+
  
<hr/>
 
  
'''February 16, 2016''' - Alex, Dani, Martin
+
'''Nov 10, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
* no topics
+
* Still dealing with the loss of Dani
 +
* Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
 +
* Stabilizing for M3
 +
* Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
 +
* Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency
  
<hr/>
 
  
'''February 9, 2016''' - Alex, McQ, Dani
+
'''Nov 10, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
* Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
+
* Still dealing with the loss of Dani
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|466370}} Welcome Screen redesign
+
* Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|472614}} Smart Project Importer
+
* Stabilizing for M3
 +
* Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
 +
* Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency
  
<hr/>
 
  
'''February 2, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
'''Nov 3, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
* Dani: '''Foundation Hires''' - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
+
* Dani!
* Dani: '''Neon M5''' went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
+
* Dani: '''CQ Deadline''' on Feb.12 for Neon
+
* Dani: {{bug|486647}} for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
+
** With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
+
** Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
+
*** Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
+
*** We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
+
*** Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
+
** Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''January 26, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars
 
* Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
 
* Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
 
* Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''Oct 27, 2020''' - Lars, Tom
'''January 19, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Nothing to discuss
* Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
+
* Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
+
** Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
+
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''PDE Build''' - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
+
** Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement '''in the Platform'''
+
** Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
+
** Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
+
** Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
+
* Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
+
** Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
+
* SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
+
* Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
+
** Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
+
* Martin: '''Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?'''
+
** Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
+
** Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
+
*** Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
+
** Debian or SuSE should be OK;
+
** Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''January 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
 
* Dani: '''Upstaffing the PMC'''
 
** Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
 
* Dani: '''Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng''' - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
 
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''Remove PDE Build from our drops?'''
 
** Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
 
** McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
 
** Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
 
* Dani: {{bug|485257}} '''Copyright Policy Change''' - waiting on EMO/Legal input
 
* Alex: '''Updating SWT to Java7'''
 
* McQ: '''Travel for EclipseCon'''
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''Oct 20, 2020''' - Lars, Tom, McQ, Alex
'''January 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani
+
* EclipseCon is running virtual this week
* Dani: '''PMC Membership'''
+
* Agreement that removal of API should only before M1 release
 +
* Proof of concept for using Java 11 http client instead of ECF should be done
 +
* if we remove ECF we should send out an announcement and keep it for at least one release
 +
* Decision to start using the @Deprecated(since = "x.y.z", forRemoval = true) for planned API removals if the bundle can use Java 11, wiki for API removal should be updated
  
<hr/>
+
'''Oct 6, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, McQ, Alex
'''December 15, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
+
* M1 under control
* No calls until Jan.5
+
* Release train materials being worked
* Looking for a new PMC member
+
* Moved to Jetty 9.4.32
 +
* ECF — need to simplify how we consume http client
 +
** could use Java11 http client instead, but this would require significant development effort
 +
** Tom/Alex to take an initial stab at understanding scope + open bugs
 +
* Proposal: remove API once a year
 +
** Given the already long time for consumers to respond to API deprecation, PMC decision was to continue to allow API removal in any release. It was felt that the incremental benefit was outweighed by the need to be able to move forward quickly.
  
<hr/>
 
'''December 8, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, John, Dani
 
* Discussed {{bug|483803}} regarding the BREE for org.eclipse.core.jobs.
 
** PMC decided to move it back to JavaSE-1.7 but keep databinding on JavaSE-1.8
 
* Dani: Reminder: {{bug|475185}} Plan Update 1 - Due with Neon M4 next week
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''Sep 15, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, Lars, Alex
'''December 1, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani
+
* M1
* McQ: The new 5-Dollar Raspberry Pi and Orion (Java server works just fine on the Pi2).
+
** Next week M1 - Alex to send reminder note
** Node server is a bit smaller but single-user and no git - nice for developing node apps though
+
** Holiday in India on this Friday
* Dani: '''Mars.2 Endgame Plan sent'''
+
* Dani: {{bug|475185}} Plan Update 1 - Due with Neon M4 next week
+
  
<hr/>
+
* Y-Build for Java 16
'''November 25, 2015''' - McQ, Martin, Alex
+
** Builds should be fixed and can continue to progress on Java 16
* Alex: '''Bumping SWT to Java8'''
+
** Lars wants to use Lambdas {{bug|481195}}; Markus keller wants static helper methods;
+
** Stephan Herrmann - University Research for Thread safety through typed annotations
+
*** Are they ready to contribute? - Probably yes, needs to be clarified; having better dev support for Thread Safety will be a huge help
+
*** Dani: Thinks that going to Java8 feels a bit early for SWT, which is at the bottom of the technology stack ... would prefer 1 year later
+
*** John: Lambda support doesn't necessarily require SWT to be Java 8 itself (it could just be more lambda friendly)
+
**** Won't help with base listeners, but probably with mouse events and related .. follow up in the bugreport
+
**** Labdas are more than syntactic sugar, it's more efficient ... still there is more value in Thread safety annotations
+
*** McQ: Assumes there would be an extensive discussion on cross-project anyways ... but there is evidence now we could get value from doing this.
+
* Dani: '''Update on Move of platform.text'''
+
** Approval from IP, will soon move to platform.ui - will keep platform.text bugzilla.
+
* John: '''FEEP'''
+
** As discussed on the [[Architecture Council]]
+
* McQ: '''Platform Support'''
+
** Many Platforms are not really active - IBM keeps alive some of them, for example RHEL4
+
** Recent mailinglist asking for Mac 32bit, have we done enough on announcements ?
+
** '''Agreement''' there's no case for catering more to people who don't read announcements and follow the project. Having a mailinglist ask once in a while is OK.
+
** Dani: Planning Update for Neon / M4 - please comment on the bug.
+
*** John: Plan document is not really exhaustive on the oldest working Platform - RHEL4 surely won't work in Neon.
+
** Alex: Consider a "Build your Own" approach for the more obscure Platforms? - Frees us from keeping older binaries in sync
+
*** Did that for ARM32 and ARM64 in master - can build by just calling maven
+
*** McQ: Who would ever validate that scripts are still valid... (Linux community: provides no binaries at all, who validates?)
+
*** Alex: Providing scripts is a lot less work than providing stable and widely compatible binaries (about 1/3 of the work)
+
  
<hr/>
+
* SCR upgrade
'''November 18, 2015''' - Alex, John, Dani
+
** Some issues with EBR maven plugin
* Dani: EclipseCon NA 2016 submission from our team:
+
** causes versions to be incorrectly represented in p2 meta-data
** https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2016/session/scaling-eclipse-high-dpi-dots-inch-monitors-challenges-and-solutions
+
** Orbit needs a new lead, will end up impacting us if no replacement found
** https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2016/session/java-9-support-eclipse
+
* John: mentioned FEEP
+
** Alex has concerns that there's not an equal opportunity for everyone
+
* Alex: new Lucene version: would like to put it in
+
** cross-projects has already been asked and we got no negative vote
+
** CQs are approved
+
** seems to be blocked by Orbit
+
** ==> Alex to find out why and report back next week in the PMC call
+
  
<hr/>
+
* Tycho being updated to be able to OSGi-fy JARs if they are not there yet.
 +
** How to use this for a feature?
 +
** Behaves much like Orbit to produce new versions of the artifact.
 +
** Could be the solution for Orbit needs.
  
'''November 11, 2015''' - McQ, John, Dani
 
* Discussed new meeting time that works for Martin
 
** John to send a note that proposes Tuesday, 11:00 EST / 17:00 CET (starting in two weeks)
 
* John: Alex mentioned at EclipseCon that there's no one in SWT team overlooking cross-platform, e.g. to craft new APIs
 
** owning one platform is a full-time job
 
** would need another person in SWT
 
** for now one of the two co-leads needs to own that task - Dani to talk to Pradeep and the co-leads
 
* John to Dani: how was EclipseCon
 
** Dani: Great! Lots of talking to people; spent quite some time at the Hackathon; only saw 4 talks
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''Sep 22, 2020''' - no meeting
  
'''October 28, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
 
* Dani: Discuss new meeting time that works for Martin
 
** decided that John will send out a doodle poll
 
* Dani: Discuss our position regarding the removal of committer emeritus ({{bug|480670}})
 
** everyone agreed that we would like to keep this for the following reasons:
 
*** it is a good way reward those committers who invested lots of their time and made significant contributions to a project
 
*** it makes no sense to remove something that currently works and ask projects to maintain this on their website
 
** we have to make sure that the emeritus list doesn't get stale
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''Sep 15, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Lars, Tom, Alex
 +
* Dani: Java 15 released today
 +
** 4.17 release together with Marketplace for Java 15 support are ready
 +
** JDT Java 15 to be merged this week
 +
* Dani: Zoom call with password unless each of the PMC members can be added as meeting owner so can start the meeting
 +
* Alex: 4.18 stream opened and releng work calmed down
 +
* Lars: Cleanup of migration guides
 +
** Dani: this will break existing links, so existing content have to stay unless someone does all the work to fix our plans and other links that will break
 +
** McQ: help system needs work to focus on the latest stuff/release, what should we do to achieve it? How can we better shape the help system now that having all content ofline is not a requirement?
 +
** Alex: do not ship migration, n&n,etc. but rather point to website url from help system
 +
** Alex: this would also reduce manual work for releng (+1 by Dani)
 +
** ACTION ITEM: Alex to work on n&n in help system to use the website content directly as a proof of concept for further work
  
'''October 21, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
 
* Dani: so far no negative vote in the vote to move platform.text into platform.ui
 
* McQ: Martin can no longer join, McQ would like to move the meeting
 
** detailed several alternatives but no fit yet
 
** decided to continue the discussion in our next meeting
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''Sep 01, 2020''' - Lars, Alex
 +
* RC1 is fine, no additional requests for RC2
  
'''October 14, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
 
* Dani: Community asked to move platform.text into platform.ui (see [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-text-dev/msg00484.html https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-text-dev/msg00484.html])
 
** 3 solutions:
 
*** make the move
 
*** make a more radical move to merge everything into 'Platform'
 
*** leave things as is and let new people join platform.text
 
** McQ: merging everything together is not an option. Skills are too different. Resources, Debug and SWT need to be kept separate.
 
** Dani: fine with the move as long as it does not serve as argument to merge everything into one pot
 
** Alex: committers need to accept the move
 
** PMC decision: OK with the move but Dani to ask the platform.text and platform.ui committers whether they are both OK with it. Dani to become co-lead of Platform UI
 
  
* John from Board Meeting: Eclipse Foundation wants to change perception that Eclipse is just an IDE. Therefore they would like to change the name of our project ("Eclipse").
+
'''August 25, 2020''' - Tom, Lars, Alex, Dani
** McQ:
+
* Dani: sent out Endgame plan, RC1 this week, vacation starting on Friday
*** this will not be for free. The name is used at many places (code, webpage, Help) and also by companies in their marketing
+
* Alex informed about Red Hat's Releng participation
*** maybe we just have to accept we made a mistake in the beginning and now live with it
+
*** can't think of a good name - which indicates we shouldn't change it ("Platform" is not good and "Eclipse SDK" or "Eclipse IDE" hide that it is the base for "RCP" apps)
+
** decided to talk about this again in the next call
+
  
<hr/>
 
  
'''October 7, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani, Martin
+
'''August 18, 2020''' - Tom, Lars, Dani
* Dani: '''{{bug|108668}} Default Text Encoding UTF-8 ?'''
+
* Dani to create and send out Endgame plan
** On Linux and Mac, the Platform encoding is UTF-8 ; on Windows it's Cp1252 in most countries around the globe, even with Windows 10
+
* Looking into Mac Big Sur launching issue ({{bug|565913}})
** Using the Platform encoding ensures interoperability with all local tools (editors, compilers, ...)
+
*** '''Desire for UTF-8 only for Windows exchanging files with users on other systems'''
+
*** '''Changing the encoding of an existing workspace after the fact is a no go''' (risk of data corruption when loading/saving a file, some encodings are lossy)
+
*** '''Using an encoding different than the OS encoding is problematic too''' (risk of data corruption when importing or D&D files from the OS)
+
** Proposal 1: UTF-8 on new empty workspaces on Windows ? --&gt; Might mean that external tools don't work as expected
+
** Proposal 2: Make users aware (Restore Oomph Welcome, which was disabled via {{bug|459486}}) ? --&gt; But many users don't understand implications, other tools also don't do this
+
** Proposal 3: Ask for encoding when team-sharing since only team-shared projects cause issues (eg EGit hook) ? --&gt; But on "push" it may be too late
+
** Martin: Encoding describes content, so should be managed with the content (as a project setting)
+
*** '''--&gt; Proposal 4: Move to a model where we encourage setting the project-level encoding preference'''
+
**** When creating a project, set the workspace default on project level automatically --&gt; ensures that projects remain sane over their lifetime
+
**** For projects lacking the project-level preference, introduce a Problem Marker (Warning) with quick fix to either UTF-8 or workspace default
+
** '''Decision:'''
+
*** '''We won't change the workspace default''' -- no use breaking existing users
+
*** '''We'll set the project encoding pro-actively'''
+
** Open questions:
+
*** Do we need tooling to convert project from encoding A to encoding B (if project preference was set incorrectly initially) ?
+
*** Shall we try setting source encoding on drag-and-drop, or shall the project dictate the policy ?
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''September 30, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
 
* Dani: will send a note to PMC list asking to approve new Debug leadership (Sarika)
 
* Dani: we should finalize our API removal discussion from last week
 
** agreed that APIs marked for removal have to be annotated with @noreference, @noextend and @noimplement
 
** agreed that components should be allowed to remove API but they have to provide good reasons
 
** agreed that we won't allow to delete APIs simply because they are deprecated
 
** agreed that the PMC will decide case by case i.e. there will be no general rule
 
** regarding version numbering we decided to also decide this case by case
 
** Dani to update the removal document and have it reviewed by the PMC
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''August 11, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, Tom, McQ
 +
* Eclipse Foundation is getting access to an Apple Silicon dev kit
 +
** Will make it available to SWT devs via cloud connectivity
 +
* M3 next week; RC1 following week
 +
* ARM64 port seems to be working fine, except for browser widget (still investigating)
  
'''September 23, 2015''' - Dani, John, Alex, Martin
 
* Dani: '''JDT Core''' - Co-lead going to step up
 
* Dani: '''API Removal Discussion'''
 
** Q1: When do we actually delete API? What's the benefit compared to the pain that we cause ?
 
*** Example of methods that don't do anything any more or do wrong things -- those should be removed
 
*** Example TableTreeViewer : Continue having the API doesn't hurt, there's no significant benefit removing it
 
**** Alex: TableTree was completely broken on GTK for 2-3 years ... keeping such components that don't work properly lowers the quality
 
**** Dani: Is there actual proof of bugs ? Or could it be working fine on Windows RCP ? If it's deprecated, people use it at own risk; do we really need to break them, if it provides value to some people on some Platforms ?
 
**** John: In TableTreeViewer case, EMF had some generic code (was unclear if the path was ever taken) and CDT could update easily
 
*** '''Summary''': scheduling for removal is OK with good arguments. Give Adopters a chance to respond before removal takes place.
 
  
** Q2: '''How to deal with the versions?'''
+
'''August 4, 2020''' - Alex, Lars, Dani
*** Dani: Updating the major causes major pain on everyone (adoption work), so this should be avoided
+
* no topics to discuss
**** Actively developed plugins will notice source breakage when recompiling anyways -- no need to update the major for them.
+
**** For dormant plugins (not recompiled), everyone will break when updating the major although only few may be affected - is it worth notifying those small percentage that might break ?
+
**** Plugins who don't care recompiling may have to live with ClassNotFoundException
+
**** Tooling exists: API Use Scan Tools can discover incorrect API references that are not announced by the versions
+
*** '''Summary:''' Handle the Major with care -- in most cases, the cost of updating the major is not justified by the benefit.
+
  
** John: '''Announcement''' When thinking about removing something, we should announce that far and wide and ask for feedback
 
*** Martin: But which channel is as effective as actually removing it ? There's always who don't actually listen...
 
*** John: Still, giving a possibility to listen is important. Agree that mentioning in the release docs is not enough.
 
*** Dani: When making a release, also send message with a link to the removals page (for all removals that are planned)
 
** John: Mechanisms for maintaining binary compatibility while only breaking source compatibility (but it's a lot of work!)
 
*** Dani: Agree, in this case better just leave it in there
 
  
** Alex: What to do next time, can we remove more stuff ?
+
'''July 28, 2020''' - Tom, McQ
*** Martin: Should be at the discretion of the committers. They do the work. If they see the need for removal, they should be allowed to do so (as long as they play by the rules, like early announcement). Need to define what the rules are.
+
* no topics to discuss
  
** John: There was an interesting discussion on cross-project, asking for well-known points in time where major breakage can occur
 
*** Eg release but without all the deprecated at certain well-known point in time eg every 3-5 years
 
*** '''AI''' ''continue that discussion on the Architecture Council''
 
  
** '''Summary:''' Essentially do what we did, plus more communication upfront, allow people to respond before deletion happens (to avoid churn)
+
'''July 21, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars
*** Committers still need to be able to delete stuff when they find it necessary.
+
* no topics to discuss
*** Updating the major (or not) to be decided case by case, but in many cases "breaking everyone" is not justified against "notifying few dormant plugins".
+
* Alex on vacation next week
  
* Alex: '''Bumping the minimum GTK version again''' (may cause issues on Platforms like AIX -- to be discussed when it's time)
 
  
 +
'''July 14, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars
 +
* Project status
 +
** M1 shipped last week
 +
** Draft Plan for 4.17 posted - additional fixes done after review
 +
** Release record created for 4.17
 +
* CQ process discussion - new clearly defined process
 +
** Note sent to Wayne to get clarifications on handbook, Wayne has made some edits in response.  We need to review latest handbook
 +
** Should simplify IP clearance for third party libraries
 +
*** If a bundle is approved by clearly defined it can be added with no CQ as long as the mavin URLs/coordinates are vetted by clearly defined
 +
*** Orbit should soon automate the linking to clearly defined approvals for bundles added.  Currently a work in progress by Roland at Orbit.
 +
*** The ratings system at clearly defined is not used.  Only the license check is used.
 +
** PMC needs to review latest handbook on the topic ... As of now we should move forward with the new process
 +
*** If concerns arise later we will need to take actions to correct
 +
* {{bug|565066}} - Needs some attention to the solution and testing
 +
** attempt to make incremental installation be consistent with resolution of a fresh install (or -clean).
  
<hr/>
 
'''September 16, 2015''' - John, Martin
 
* John: '''API Removal Discussion'''
 
** No urgency now -- changes have been reverted for now, and scheduled for 2017
 
** Updating the major of a bundle knowingly breaks everyone/most adopters
 
*** In the past, breaking changes have often been small enough to work without increasing the major
 
*** One can argue that removing TableTreeViewer is big enough to warrant updating the major
 
** Versioning packages has not been done in the past due to the huge upcoming maintenance effort when starting to do so
 
** "Release Version" is decoupled from "bundle versions" already (and may move to date-based versions eg "2016.1" with rolling updates moving forward
 
** --&gt; will have more discussion next week
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''June 23, 2020''' - no call
'''September 9, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John, McQ
+
* John: '''Planning Council Updates'''
+
** 4 planned releases (March, June, September, December -- essentially end of each quarter) with flexible contents
+
** Mid December rather than end to avoid churn, so this one is a little shorter
+
** Only June is "major" - allowing to drop off, or breaking changes; others are "minor"
+
** McQ want to reduce the number of simultaneous streams -- if "master" is more stable more often that's OK, but avoid too many "live" streams
+
  
* Software is getting more important - would be good to better support multicore
+
'''June 16, 2020''' - no call
  
* John: '''IntelliJ change in licensing / sales model'''
+
'''June 9, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom
** Many eclipse-positive comments on the announcement blog
+
* McQ: message to guide the community got no public reactions so far
** Possibility putting Money on Eclipse Development may become interesting for companies in this context
+
* Dani: bug reports needed for JDT, do we have PMC agreement?
 +
** Alex: For me that was approved after jdt-dev vote ended
 +
** AGREED
 +
* Dani: RC2 done, no major bug so far but still monitoriing for regressions
 +
* Alex: 4.17 stream open, not finished until 4.16 if final so all apichecks and etc. are in proper shape
 +
* Tom: OSGi R8 merge after stabilizing 4.17 stream
 +
* Tom: OSGi Move to Java 8 right after that
 +
* Dani: Switch to Java 11 as min version as it was already announced to happen in 4.17 stream shortly
  
<hr/>
 
'''September 2, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
 
* Dani: '''EclipseDay India''' on Saturday, 200 attendees wanted to join, hat to cut to 150
 
** Keynote by Mike Milinkovich - large Community
 
  
* Dani: '''Policy for and Mars.2'''
+
'''June 2, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom
** Do we want to stick to the "Service" model or allow feature updates ?
+
* Inactive committer clean up for Eclipse project for the 4.16 release started via {{bug|563720}}
** Mars.1 winding down -- sticking to "Critical Fixes Only" for that
+
* Infrastructure is really slow for RC2 release
** Too much in the maintenance stream causes risk of defocus ... are there relevant features that are worth the extra effort ?
+
* RC2 bug queue is really low, one restart issue which is currently under investigated by Tom
** Dani: Suggests to require PMC Approval for adding a feature in - example candidate: Improvements for HiDPI
+
* Discussion about the JDT cleanup e-mails
*** Also: What about version number (2nd digit version update), IP disclosures, Translations ... ?
+
** Need to ensure community discussions are positive and respectful.
*** Dani would suggest sticking to 3rd digit update only in the marketing release number; but a Release Review would be needed
+
** Expectations here should come from leadership
 +
*** LibreOffice did this in the past to great success.
 +
** Committers can vote against bugs but the tone of the discussion is important.
 +
** PMC will respond via the public mailing list within a week
  
'''August 26, 2015''' -
 
* Dani/Alex/Martin can't join (traveling)
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''May 26, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ
'''August 19, 2015''' - Alex, Dani
+
* Closed all M3 bugs; RC1 looking good
* nothing to discuss
+
* Tips&tricks, new&noteworthy, contributions to the newsletter in progress
 +
* Chromium integration CQ approved -- https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21808
  
<hr/>
 
'''August 12, 2015''' - John, Dani
 
* John asked whether we run on Windows 10
 
** Dani: yes, the team already tested on it a few weeks ago. Runs smoothly one bug so far. Browser widget works despite new browser (Edge)
 
** ''Martin (added after the meeting): A CDT update is needed to keep the Terminal from hanging (see {{bug|474327}}, will release with Mars.1). Got some duplicates already. Workaround is switch the Win10 Console to "Legacy Mode".''
 
* Dani would like to get plan feedback by Friday EOD
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''May 19, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex
'''August 5, 2015''' - McQ, John, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Dani: Issues with the build infrastructure, might endanger M3, the team got a working build for testing
* PC meeting later today (planning calendar, calling SR1/2 "Update 1/2" instead
+
* Dani: PowerPC hardware was donated so builds are starting again for it
** adding another release before Christmas might be a next step - even if Platform contributes identical bits
+
* Alex: CQ process might get simpler based on blog post from Wayne, Alex to test and validate with Wayne https://blogs.eclipse.org/post/wayne-beaton/revising-eclipse-ip-due-diligence-process-third-party-content
 +
* Lars: Question if we want to allow "EGit" commit style in Eclipse top-level project. Agreement was to allow it but not to recommend it or enforce it
  
* Dani: '''[[Eclipse/Mars Retrospective]]'''
 
** Move more components to Tycho build? (Would still need Ant to test against final build/bits)
 
** Contribution Review Dates: joined by some components but not all
 
** Error Reporter: Interesting to look at top ten but the sheer number is too big
 
*** John - based on Orion experience with similar error reporting :
 
**** Looking at changes in reported issues is more interesting than looking at reports themselves
 
**** Reports help getting contributions (But, Dani finds that "just adding a null check" is often not what's desired for Java .. though helpful for Javascript)
 
  
* Dani: Foundation IP team doesn't require updating copyright notices per contribution any more (since that information is in git anyways)
+
'''May 12, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex
** The Project has to agree
+
* Update to themes
** Some contributors like to have their name in the source -- that's OK, no requirement to remove author information, but no requirement to add either
+
** Preference being added for choosing square vs round tabs
** Won't remove existing lists (they never claimed to be complete, since there always was the "...and others" copyright notice
+
** Intern from Alex's team is taking up the work
** Dani to sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02422.html request for voting]
+
** Update to Windows theme to be Windows 10
 +
* Alex brings up changes to CQ requirements.  Need to read up on Wayne's post about this and discuss in a future call if we can change how the project does CQs
 +
* Who is running dark theme?
 +
** Need someone to cover test of Dark Theme on Linux. Lars indicated that he runs with Linux Dark Theme and can help in coverage
 +
** Dani described the various members of his team that cover the rest of the platforms
 +
* Request to contribute to article on what is new in the release for a June newsletter. Lars to contribute improvements in the Dark theme. General request to others to contribute anything else.
 +
* ppc64le build troubles
 +
** Been having ongoing issues with the university hosted ppc64le machine we use to build support for ppc64le
 +
** Currently the ppc64le build has been disabled
 +
** Need to find alternatives
 +
*** May be able to use something from IBM public cloud
 +
*** Other suggestions: McQ - look towards using emulation, Alex - could do cross-compilation
 +
** Need to plan if ppc 10 will supported in the future
  
* Dani: Switching to '''Jetty 9.3.x (which requires JRE 8)'''
 
** JRE 8 from Oracle (and also from IBM) exists for all Reference Platforms
 
** Except Solaris, because we only support Solaris 32-bit and the JRE only exists as 64-bit
 
** But the Plan for Neon is to have 64-bit Solaris support
 
** New Language features in Java 8 are adopted, contributors would like to start using Java 8
 
** McQ: In the past, staying on older Java was desired to enable more widespread use ... today, this argument does not seem valid any more, in fact likely more contributions / community is enabled by moving to Java 8
 
** Dani: Only concern is some "non reference" Platforms like HP-UX might not have JREs initially; but that's OK as long as the reference platforms are good
 
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move to JRE 8 and allow projects to use Java 8 in their code.
 
  
* Dani: Looking for a contributor for SWT improvements for GTK3
+
'''May 5, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, Lars, McQ, Tom
  
* Martin: '''libwebkitgtk-3 on Ubuntu 14 forcing GTK 2''' not working ?
+
* M2 shipped on time
** Alex: Using libwebkitgtk-4 which is much more stable, but not implementing the full SWT API
+
** Dark theme rebuild for M2 due to severe issue
** Most distros don't ship libwebkit for gtk-2 any more since it's not supported upstream any more and has many security issues
+
* ICU4J removal note sent
 +
** Lars - 2 years notice period needed?
 +
** Agreement: it's needed as we expose it in API and still have usages in internals so we need time to clean up ourself
 +
** EPPs cleanup - some blocked by JDT still using it, some by WTP, Rust probably the first one to be icu4j clean
 +
* Roundes vs square ctabfolder
 +
** Number of themes to be reduced
 +
** Performance not being measurable
 +
** Agreement: add preference to switch the rounded vs
 +
** Agreement: when preference is available Square is default
 +
* Windows theme update -
 +
** Fix colors to match Windows 10
 +
** GTK looks way more sane as more effort has been invested to keep it current
 +
** Don't set colors but use the colors from the OS theme is the recipe
 +
** Ugly white line on windows dark theme needs bugzilla open
  
* Alex: '''Build SWT at the Foundation'''
 
** Work with the Foundation going well, expect to have RHEL machines deployed at the foundation next month
 
  
 +
'''April 28, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, Lars
  
<hr/>
+
* PMC decided that the OS specific themes should be removed, https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=562227
'''July 15, 22 and 29, 2015''' -- no meeting
+
* Windows light theme should become better https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=551462
 +
* Dani - This week is M2, no special freeze or testing but we will contribute our build from Friday to the simrel
 +
* Databinding analyis was done by Jens Lindstroem and it looks good for an API compliant solution
 +
* Alex will prepare the information for cross that we will drop ibm icu from the SDK build
  
<hr/>
 
'''July 8, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Alex
 
* John: '''Cross-Language Tooling Discussion''' on the eclipse.org-architecture-council and ide-dev mailing lists
 
* decided to cancel the upcoming July meetings
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''April 21, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars
'''July 1, 2015''' -- no meeting
+
* Q: How do we deal with ICU removal from data binding?
 +
** Need to follow standard API removal rules
 +
*** Deprecate old API and offer new API
 +
*** Remove deprecated API after 2 years
 +
** Can we put the old stuff in a fragment that could be removed?
 +
* Theming: rounded tabs versus square tabs ({{bug|562221}})
 +
** Should we offer it at all?
 +
** Alex: Don’t increase the number of themes or options
 +
** Lars: Square tabs are faster
 +
** If speed is significant, we should consider changing the default
  
<hr/>
 
'''June 24, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
 
* Dani: '''Java 9''' - <a href="http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/eclipse-java%E2%84%A2-9-support-beta-mars">EAR Feature Patch</a> on the Marketplace NOW
 
** No JARs any more - JRE is doing things internally using "jimage" format; updated search etc to create projects and work against them
 
** If the Jimage filesystem provider isn't backported, one has to run the IDE on Java9 in order to code Java9
 
** Modules are just a list of packages (and can refer to other modules) - no real JSR describing the plan yet - seems like just a replacement of "Profiles" (and JARs)
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''April 14, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars
'''June 17, 2015''' - Dani, John, Martin, Alex
+
* Dani
* John: '''Mars''' Platform in good shape for Mars - EPP respin for Error Reporting
+
** M1 shipped, no problems so far
* Dani: '''Crashes with Java 8''' - Potentially will add to the online README
+
** Using ECJ from M1 to build the SDK has some issues, there are people working on it
** Happens in the JIT, with latest Oracle Java 8 (with 8 Cores and very specific circumstances)
+
** 4.16 plan to be published this week
** See {{Bug|465693}} - Probably https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8078262
+
* Unanimous decision to continue to use Zoom as usual
* Alex: '''XDG Application''' - looks like Docker but a similar idea
+
** Environment description of the runtime - helps specifying the line-up of library versions that we test against and use
+
** Big part of GNOME / GTK already pushing for it, might make sense to consider alignment
+
** GNOME working towards compiling with a really old compiler, such that the physically identical bits can run against a large set of distros
+
** See https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps
+
** But if you want to try it out please read https://blogs.gnome.org/alexl/2015/06/17/testing-rawhide-apps-using-xdg-app/
+
  
<hr/>
 
  
'''June 10, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
'''April 7, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars
* Dani: 4.5RC4 looking good, no more fixes planned
+
* Dani
* Dani: Working on Java 9 feature patch
+
** Created [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_16.xml 4.16 plan]
* Alex: PC discussing a change in the release train
+
** Created [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=561643 release record for 4.16]. Corresponding bug is {{bug|561643}}
** Current common ground seems to be a request for more release points, and projects could decide whether they do features or maintenance
+
** Sent note to add planning bugs for 4.16
** From Platform point of view, stability is key. Some key contributors not interested doing
+
** '''Please review and provide feedback if any'''
** Martin: How to also cater to contributors who want their contributions released soon ?
+
** After some infrastructure issues we have a good test build and currently things look good for M1 this week
*** Martin Idea: With Tycho, building the Platform is easier so ask contributors build themselves
+
* Alex seconded the infrastructure issues and missing test results
*** Or, open up a new "experimental" stream ?
+
* ICU4J ({{bug|560312}}): we decided to remove it piece by piece from projects where possible and where someone is interested to do it. The ICU bundle itself will stay, and we will follow the API removal process when we are ready to remove it, i.e. no usage in the SDK anymore
*** Dani Idea: Market milestone builds differently, as "fully consumable" would serve the same purpose
+
* Martin: Tested eclipse-installer (Oomph), looking really really good now
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''June 3, 2015''' - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
 
* Dani: '''Mars Endgame'''
 
* Dani: Please vote for release review
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 31, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, McQ, Tom, Lars
'''May 20, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
* Dani: Contacted the ICU4J owner. He updated {{bug|560312}}, PMC members will review the comment and we will discuss next week
* Dani: '''Security Update''' - Platform work done, Orbit updated, reached out to Wayne and other affected projects.
+
* Dani: Planning bugs are created slowly for 4.16. Will send a reminder to the list to submit more. Started to work on plan and release record.
* Dani: '''RC2 Build''' - too many bugs assigned, Lars on Vacation, Dani will fill in
+
* McQ: '''Too Many Platforms Built?''' - Who's really hurt by "too many builds" ?
+
** Will meet with Mike & Foundation tomorrow, Alex is also interested (Dani to check).
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''May 13, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Martin
 
* John, Dani - Mars Endgame looking good
 
* Alex - {{bug|465874}} Lucene 5 looking good, almost done - Ready to commit as soon as CQs are in and Mars+1 is open
 
* JDT for Java 9 - will need a wider discussion with EMO on make it easier to publish the work, e.g. in normal builds
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 24, 2020''' - Alex, McQ, Tom
'''May 6, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
* Dani: Regrets for the call (Eclipse Board call)
* Dani: '''Java 9 timing''' - slight delay
+
* Alex: status updates
* Dani: RC1 preps
+
** JDT merged Java 14 in master
** 2-day test pass went fine - 2 severe issues found, will be addressed
+
** Build instability due to infra status
** Request to watch PMC mailing list for API exceptions and defect approvals
+
* Alex: OSGi R8 modules support - what is it?
* John: '''PC Discussion on Release Cycles'''
+
** Tom: ability to represent external content in the OSGi framework
** Multiple releases per year PLUS maintenance streams seems like overkill
+
** Alex: Will it allow shipping eclipse plugins as JPMS modules to ease native library handling?
** Consider an approach like Orion that just moves constantly forward
+
** Tom: Haven't found any clear example how JPMS handles this, so good example is needed before could be looked further.
** Especially for the Platform, being rock solid is most important. Still to attract new contributors we need to allow more frequent "feature updates".
+
*** A model where both "stable/maintenance" _and_ "features" are contributed to the train might be too much work/overhead.
+
*** Consider a model like Ubuntu, ... with some release numbers being "stable/LTS base" and others being "in-between feature releases" ?
+
*** Consider a model like LTS for maintenance fixes / aside mainstream just moving forward ?
+
  
  
'''April 15, 2015''' - Dani, John, McQ, Alex, Martin
+
'''March 17, 2020''' - Alex, McQ, Lars Tom, Dani
* Dani: '''Java 1.7 Changes'''
+
* ICU4J use still under discussion
** Some bundles have been moved to a 1.7 BREE by new committers, even after API freeze
+
** Dani still to contact ICU4J owner
** Rule has always been "we move up when there's a reason to move up". We won't move up without reason.
+
* Shipping Java 14 and 4.15 this week
*** Dani: Moving the BREE may even cause API changes, so should only be done when incrementing the minor version (5% risk)
+
* Java 14 work will be merged to master on Wednesday
*** Alex: Such updates allow staying current and not get to "rewrite is needed" state (thus needed) but has to happen before M6 (API freeze)
+
** Alex suggest not accepting additional changes, but not reverting either (to avoid churn)
+
* Dani: '''Batik 1.6 update'''
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''April 8, 2015''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, John, McQ
 
* Dani: '''Batik''' - Platform is good, Train may need to update, perhaps updating one bundle only would suffice. John will follow up.
 
* Alex: '''SWT for GTK 3 News'''
 
** GTK port finally decoupled from X11 - it renders on Wayland now, can switch the renderer to a pure HTML one
 
** This opens up opportunities (but depends on hosts that have GTK).
 
  
 +
'''March 10, 2020''' - Lars, Tom
 +
* Dani: Regrets for the call (vacation)
 +
* ICU4J use still under discussion
 +
** if we can be confident that performance and language support are of *similar* quality, we should work towards removing icu4j because it reduces complexity for us, in addition allowing for smaller RCP apps
 +
** note that we already have mixed usage -- some components using icu4j and some not
 +
* to clarify approvals that require a project lead can be done by a project lead for any of the Eclipse Project subprojects
 +
** as usual, the project lead should take care to understand the change and its implications before approving
 +
* we will move to Jetty 10 (and thus to Java 11) for the fall release
 +
* RH will be leading releng for 4.16
  
<hr/>
 
'''April 1, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani (Regrets: John travelling)
 
* Alex: '''GTK 3.16''' seeing issues again - fixed some crashes, but scrolling is still entirely broken
 
** SWT uses a number of things that GTK declares as "implementation detail"
 
* PMC approval on piggyback CQ's (AC question forwarded by John)
 
** Dani sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02332.html our position] to John in order to update the AC
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 3, 2020''' - no meeting
'''March 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
+
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - Bigger this year due to LocationTech (750 attendees)
+
** Mark Reinhold keynote and "after-session" on Java 9
+
** Much interest in Orion JS tooling / editor, also on desktop
+
** Public face of Eclipse Platform at the conference was much more diverse than in the past (Lars Vogel, Max Anderson, Google ...)
+
* Dani: {{bug|458730}} '''Mars Plan Update'''
+
* Dani: '''e4 project leadership''' approved by EMO
+
* Dani: Szymon Brandys resigned as Platform/Resources co-lead. Need to +1 on the mailing list
+
  
<hr/>
 
  
'''March 11, 2015 - no meeting (EclipseCon)'''
+
'''February 25, 2020''' - Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex
 +
* Dani: Created and sent Endgame plan
 +
* Dani: Submitted IP Log: https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21716
 +
* Alex: SWT on Linux in 4.16 to require Gtk 3.20 to simplify CSS machinery and prep for GTK4
 +
* Alex: ICU4J removal
 +
** Dani: ICU4J reacts faster to changes and supports more features (new Japanese era)
 +
** Alex: It might but Eclipse fails at keeping up so current version shipped with Eclipse misses features that the JVM supports (latest CLDR)
 +
** Dani: Asks for a proof that JVM is better that ICU
 +
** Alex: Which metrics to be measured?
 +
** Dani: Will check with ICU guy about that and whether it's still needed
  
<hr/>
 
  
'''March 4, 2015''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, John
+
'''February 18, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom
* Dani: '''e4 leadership''' - Dani will volunteer to co-lead
+
* Dani: need to work on IP Log, Release Review and Endgame Plan
* Dani: '''BREEs''' - documentation about how to pick the EE
+
* Lars: ECF - will we update to the latest
** Recommending the "earliest generally supported JRE that provides the capabilities you need"
+
** Alex: is in the works. Scott needs to provide us with the update
** Would like an URL on the page pointing to the most recent plan (talking to Wayne)
+
* Tom: Found an issue with JUnit 5 launching but not reproducible with latest I-build
* John: '''greatfix contest'''
+
** Dani: File a bug if you have steps or contact Noopur directly
** Dani: Working well - some very small contributions but some also very large (eg Customize Perspective fixes)
+
* Dani: Update on X-builds and tags
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - numbers looking good; join Planning Council Breakfast as delegate for Dani
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''February 25, 2015''' - Dani, Martin McQ
 
* No topics
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''February 11, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom
'''February 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Alex: Infrastructure is very instable, how can be complain to the foundation?
* Alex: '''Building Native Launchers'''
+
** Alex: Eclipse foundation server team not responding to complains and seem unclear about the source of the issue
** Current way of building is kinda unpredictable - even if getting some agreement on versions to use, results are kinda unpredictable
+
** Discussion about makes a stronger statement to the foundation about the bad state of the infrastructure
** Pushing towards Hudson RHEL builders at least at the EF to get more transparency and automation - attempt to mimic the infrastructure at IBM
+
** McQ: Suggestion to send a note as PMC to the foundation
** Looking at 3 primary architectures (at the EF) for Linux vs. secondary architectures (non-public builders potentially)
+
** Dani: First we should ask webmaster why this takes so long
* Dani: Great initiative, but other (non-EF) builders must not be broken
+
** Alex: Marketplace infrastructure is also in bad state
** EF doesn't allow any commercial tools (but currently, e.g. Windows launchers are built with MSVS)
+
*** Dead marketplace entries are not getting removed https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=550713
* Alex is willing to spend time to get Linux builds running; but can't help with other architectures
+
*** No clean contact person from the foundation
** Martin: great approach - for Windows, using a cross-compiler on Linux might be interesting (after Linux native works)
+
*** Marketplace is also not Open Source hence we cannot fix thing ourself.
* Alex: This is just phase one - getting rid of the binaries in git repos might be phase 2 (since the checked-in binaries easily cause inconsistencies between Java and Native side)
+
** Martin: Checked-in binaries help consumers and contributors who just want to make a Java change
+
** Dani: Checked-in binaries are also used for comparing build results for expected vs accidental changes
+
  
* Alex: '''{{bug|459399}} - Policy for recommended minimum execution environments for bundles'''
+
-> Alex to contact Denis and to cc the other PMC members
** Dani: It works today
+
*** To run Eclipse, Java 8 or Java 9 can be used (minimum BREE has no impact)
+
*** To modify the source, a new JRE can be used but then the Execution Environment Descriptions need to be installed
+
** Policy as discussed in the past: Each project can increase the BREE if there is a real need (such as generifying) and no upstream clients are broken
+
*** But don't change the BREE without justification -- changing the BREE always has some effect, such as new warnings that would need to be addressed
+
*** Suggested BREE for new bundles has already been changed by Lars
+
* Alex: Even for bundles in "maintenance mode", old BREE causes issues for people who build from source (who have to change compilers etc)
+
* No conclusion so far (Alex and Dani disagree)
+
  
* Dani: '''e4 leadership'''
+
'''February 4, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Tom
** Mature bits being moved to Eclipse - e4 remaining as an incubator to keep alive for experiments with low entry barrier
+
* OSGi Spec talk
 +
** OSGi R8 Core will be done this year.
 +
** May be ready for 4.16, but no rush if it slips to 4.17
 +
** Will not put anything in master until spec is final which makes it more likely to be 4.17
  
<hr/>
 
'''February 11, 2015''' - Dani, Alex
 
* no topics
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''January 28, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars
 +
* Ongoing saga of the EPP packages
 +
** Markus did it last week
 +
** PMC discussed possible futures here, but no conclusions
 +
** Discussion also happening at the board level
 +
* M2 is this week
 +
* Pushing for JUnit updates for M2
  
'''February 4, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
 
* Alex: With GTK-3.15.[345] , Eclipse is entirely unusable
 
** Alex has some dirty workarounds to make it start, but still many issues like trees not painted, ...
 
** Crash on startup identified to be GTK bug. Fix to be released in 3.15.6 https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=edec64cda3d4518b4e87d5ea5d287d4570ba9933
 
* Dani: Working on Solaris 64-bit
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''January 21, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, Lars
 +
* Dani: EPP builds still missing, Dani contacted Markus Knauer to update EPP for M1, release train is at risk if nobody steps up
 +
* New test failures are investigated, action plan is to restart the test, if they still fails restart the machine and if the tests still fail, see if a revert fixes the test
  
'''January 28, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, John
 
* Dani: Switch Mac OS X 10.9 with 10.10 in Mars target environments
 
** No objections
 
* Alex: Looking for any Eclipse related activity @Fosdem
 
<hr/>
 
  
'''January 21, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
'''January 14, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom
* Alex: '''Process for allowing non-committers extended bugzilla privileges (for bug triage)?'''
+
* Dani: Switch to SUSE Enterprise 15, team is in favor to drop 12
** Dani: Yes a process exists. Send bugzilla username to Dani.
+
* Dani: Plan updated to remove Windows 7
* Alex: '''New resource for helping with SWT'''
+
* Alex: Felix Dependencies for SCR done
* Dani: '''Platform/UI co-lead'''
+
** confirm fix for {{bug|544571}}
* Dani: Solaris: Java 8 will only support 64 bits on both Intel and SPARC --&gt; IBM SWT Team considering to invest in getting patches in for 64-bit Solaris
+
** releng disruptions during update, but recovered.  More disruptions expected as we update dependencies for March release.
 +
** broken builds, need to get a list of issues. Seems to be more infrastructure issues.  Need to report back to the foundation. Example, the signing issue that broken the respin.
 +
* Some discussion about gitlab option at foundation. {{bug|537913}}
 +
** What happens to gerrit work flow for review?
 +
** Would dropping bugzilla happen or can we migrate all issues?
 +
** Without migration it is a no-go for us
 +
** Currently no plans to move Eclipse project to gitlab at this time.
  
<hr/>
 
'''January 14, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 
* Dani: Update on Platform/UI Leadership: Daniel Rolka left IBM and for now has no time to contribute. He stepped down as co-lead and nominated Lars Vogel
 
* Dani: Solaris x86 64-bit support - patches exist, but no machine available. No luck to get one from Oracle or via Eclipse Foundation. We will not support Solaris x86 64-bit unless someone makes a machine available
 
<hr/>
 
  
'''January 7, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''January 7, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars
* Dani: '''Platform/UI Leadership'''
+
* Dani: Created initial 4.15 plan - please have a look
* John: '''Git security issue''' - pick up a patch for Jgit in the packages before SR2? - Mostly an EPP
+
* Dani: Created release record for 4.15
<hr/>
+
* Dani: Sent a note to teams to create their 4.15 plan items/bugs
 +
* Dani: Do we want to drop support for Windows 7 (remove from Target Environments only)
 +
** Unanimous decision: Yes
 +
* Dani: Discuss (again, see below) resolution for stale bugs
 +
** We want to ask the webmaster that stale bugs are directly closed. ACTION ITEM for Lars
 +
** We will only auto/mass close existing stale bugs with notification turned off
 +
* Change rules about x-internal exports ({{bug|553709}})
 +
** Decision:
 +
** - Newly added internal packages should not use x-internal exports unless there are very good reasons
 +
** - For existing packages the x-internal export can be removed with PMC approval
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2019 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2019]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2018 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2018]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2017 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2017]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]

Latest revision as of 11:00, 28 April 2021

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

April 28, 2021 - Tom, Alex

  • Mac M1 changes are in to move to aarch64
  • Discussed progress on Jar signing issue for Java 16
    • Progress being made but will require some change in behavior of the Equinox SignedContent API
    • Will result in deprecation of at least one method
    • Working towards M3 solution.
  • Discussed move to PGP verification as alternative to signed JAR verification to p2
    • Progress being made there, hopefully get something for M3


Mar 31, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars

  • Java 16 jar signing issue
    • Tom wants to replace equinox implementation with builtin Jar file implementation so changes don't have to be done in Equinox on each release
  • JSP/Jetty story in IDE
    • Do we still need same functionality?
    • Alex - get out of the business for help system. Dependencies (jetty, lucene) generate more releng work than we can handle.
    • McQ - url for plugin help would be simplest and open it in browser
    • Any change (e.g. JSP removal) has to go through standard deprecation period, announcements and etc.
    • Alex to initiate communication on longer term plan with Holger who works on improvements to help system lately


Mar 31, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex

  • PMC call time
    • Overlaps with Planning council call and both Tom and Alex can't make both

-> Decision: Skip PMC call every first Wed of the month

  • Webpage Hugo migration
    • Recommended by Eclipse Foundation and active contributor to do the conversion
    • Concerns about mixing old and new content are raised but they don't look severe
    • Supported by PMC

-> Tom to handle initial communication on behalf of PMC

  • Planning process relevance
    • the planning process is not providing the detailed and usable plans from the past
    • not a pain point as fewer people participate it but looks like useless exercise quite often
    • to be discussed....


Mar 24, 2021 - Tom, Alex, Lars

  • Pack 200 - API removal in 2 years - 2023-06
    • Should we turn off all pack 200 features in one year, make it consistent across all Java versions.
    • 2022-06 - disable pack200 for all Java versions. Calling the deprecated API will be a no-op
  • Pack 200 - When can we stop generating? Agreed on 2021-09 release. We should set the precedence as early as possible to stop producing pack200 artifacts.
  • split packages
    • Causing issues with mandatory directive and p2 bug 360659 and with tycho.
    • Currently tycho requires some work arounds for usage of split packages
    • Can we work to get rid of split packages. We agreed to investigate the work and move to combine split packages if possible.


Mar 17, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars

  • SWT Chromium support
    • Still no recent version of Chromium with security patches
    • Will be dropped in M1 (if no recent version is provided in the next weeks or if no one steps up)
  • Pack 2000 support
    • not supported anymore as of Java 14
    • will be deprecated and marked for removal
  • Moving Eclipse repos to Github
    • Moving to Github might simplify and therefore increase contributions
    • Huge amount of work in releng
    • Potentially we should all subprojects at the same time
    • We check if the foundation plans to move everything to Gitlab


Mar 10, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex

  • Moving to Jetty 10 for next release
  • platform-dev discussion about move to GitHub
    • conversation is useful, but would take a lot of planning
    • lots of current rel eng dependencies on Gerrit
      • need more community help for rel eng issues
    • a massive amount of history in our Bugzilla
  • release record and proto-plan created for 4.20


Febr 17, 2021 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • Looks good for 4.19 release
  • Mac ARM has to wait for the 4.20 release, as the team fights multiple issues
  • Top-level project page can currently only be edited by Tom, other PMC members also have access to it https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/eclipse/who


Dec 15, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • 06. January 2021 is the next meeting
  • How can PMC increase the awareness of the project leads / committers?
    • Maybe invite the project leads once per month to the PMC meeting?
    • Discussion how we can increase the JDT community


Dec 01, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • RC1 is out; final touches on RC2
  • How can we remove the confusion about "e4" project?
    • e4 has always been intended to be a sandbox project where people could try things that are experimental or are on a longer timeline
    • Should be renamed to make it clear this isn't about leftovers from the Eclipse 4.0 work (maybe "eNext"?)
    • Should clean up repos
      • Remove repos that just hold code that has already moved to the platform
      • Remove repos that are no longer getting any investment
      • Work toward moving things that are active/useful into the platform (e.g. "spies" to PDE)

Nov 24, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • PMC is considering the potential of an SDK / IDE working group at the foundation
  • Discussion Do we need the extra releng work to create p2 repositories for milestones?
    • Lot of extra work and sometimes goes wrong
    • All I-Builds are anyway available

-> PMC decided to drop the additional p2 repository -> Alex will be sending out an email about it to inform potential users of the special p2 repos

    • Discussion about the purpose of the milestone week at all

-> Decision not to change the process for now, as the additional testing and focus has also some benefits


Nov 17, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Release 4.18 winding down
    • SWT churn for Linux and Mac Big Sur
    • Does not appear the Foundation got the new Mac Hardware for testing
  • Planning Council discussion
    • Dani filled the Eclipse TLP representation role on the Council
    • Alex can take the lead to that role
    • Alex will look to find a replacement for the tools TLP representative


Nov 10, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Still dealing with the loss of Dani
  • Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
  • Stabilizing for M3
  • Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
  • Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency


Nov 10, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Still dealing with the loss of Dani
  • Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
  • Stabilizing for M3
  • Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
  • Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency


Nov 3, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Dani!


Oct 27, 2020 - Lars, Tom

  • Nothing to discuss


Oct 20, 2020 - Lars, Tom, McQ, Alex

  • EclipseCon is running virtual this week
  • Agreement that removal of API should only before M1 release
  • Proof of concept for using Java 11 http client instead of ECF should be done
  • if we remove ECF we should send out an announcement and keep it for at least one release
  • Decision to start using the @Deprecated(since = "x.y.z", forRemoval = true) for planned API removals if the bundle can use Java 11, wiki for API removal should be updated

Oct 6, 2020 - Dani, Tom, McQ, Alex

  • M1 under control
  • Release train materials being worked
  • Moved to Jetty 9.4.32
  • ECF — need to simplify how we consume http client
    • could use Java11 http client instead, but this would require significant development effort
    • Tom/Alex to take an initial stab at understanding scope + open bugs
  • Proposal: remove API once a year
    • Given the already long time for consumers to respond to API deprecation, PMC decision was to continue to allow API removal in any release. It was felt that the incremental benefit was outweighed by the need to be able to move forward quickly.


Sep 15, 2020 - Dani, Tom, Lars, Alex

  • M1
    • Next week M1 - Alex to send reminder note
    • Holiday in India on this Friday
  • Y-Build for Java 16
    • Builds should be fixed and can continue to progress on Java 16
  • SCR upgrade
    • Some issues with EBR maven plugin
    • causes versions to be incorrectly represented in p2 meta-data
    • Orbit needs a new lead, will end up impacting us if no replacement found
  • Tycho being updated to be able to OSGi-fy JARs if they are not there yet.
    • How to use this for a feature?
    • Behaves much like Orbit to produce new versions of the artifact.
    • Could be the solution for Orbit needs.


Sep 22, 2020 - no meeting


Sep 15, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Lars, Tom, Alex

  • Dani: Java 15 released today
    • 4.17 release together with Marketplace for Java 15 support are ready
    • JDT Java 15 to be merged this week
  • Dani: Zoom call with password unless each of the PMC members can be added as meeting owner so can start the meeting
  • Alex: 4.18 stream opened and releng work calmed down
  • Lars: Cleanup of migration guides
    • Dani: this will break existing links, so existing content have to stay unless someone does all the work to fix our plans and other links that will break
    • McQ: help system needs work to focus on the latest stuff/release, what should we do to achieve it? How can we better shape the help system now that having all content ofline is not a requirement?
    • Alex: do not ship migration, n&n,etc. but rather point to website url from help system
    • Alex: this would also reduce manual work for releng (+1 by Dani)
    • ACTION ITEM: Alex to work on n&n in help system to use the website content directly as a proof of concept for further work


Sep 01, 2020 - Lars, Alex

  • RC1 is fine, no additional requests for RC2


August 25, 2020 - Tom, Lars, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: sent out Endgame plan, RC1 this week, vacation starting on Friday
  • Alex informed about Red Hat's Releng participation


August 18, 2020 - Tom, Lars, Dani

  • Dani to create and send out Endgame plan
  • Looking into Mac Big Sur launching issue (bug 565913)


August 11, 2020 - Alex, Dani, Tom, McQ

  • Eclipse Foundation is getting access to an Apple Silicon dev kit
    • Will make it available to SWT devs via cloud connectivity
  • M3 next week; RC1 following week
  • ARM64 port seems to be working fine, except for browser widget (still investigating)


August 4, 2020 - Alex, Lars, Dani

  • no topics to discuss


July 28, 2020 - Tom, McQ

  • no topics to discuss


July 21, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars

  • no topics to discuss
  • Alex on vacation next week


July 14, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars

  • Project status
    • M1 shipped last week
    • Draft Plan for 4.17 posted - additional fixes done after review
    • Release record created for 4.17
  • CQ process discussion - new clearly defined process
    • Note sent to Wayne to get clarifications on handbook, Wayne has made some edits in response. We need to review latest handbook
    • Should simplify IP clearance for third party libraries
      • If a bundle is approved by clearly defined it can be added with no CQ as long as the mavin URLs/coordinates are vetted by clearly defined
      • Orbit should soon automate the linking to clearly defined approvals for bundles added. Currently a work in progress by Roland at Orbit.
      • The ratings system at clearly defined is not used. Only the license check is used.
    • PMC needs to review latest handbook on the topic ... As of now we should move forward with the new process
      • If concerns arise later we will need to take actions to correct
  • bug 565066 - Needs some attention to the solution and testing
    • attempt to make incremental installation be consistent with resolution of a fresh install (or -clean).


June 23, 2020 - no call

June 16, 2020 - no call

June 9, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom

  • McQ: message to guide the community got no public reactions so far
  • Dani: bug reports needed for JDT, do we have PMC agreement?
    • Alex: For me that was approved after jdt-dev vote ended
    • AGREED
  • Dani: RC2 done, no major bug so far but still monitoriing for regressions
  • Alex: 4.17 stream open, not finished until 4.16 if final so all apichecks and etc. are in proper shape
  • Tom: OSGi R8 merge after stabilizing 4.17 stream
  • Tom: OSGi Move to Java 8 right after that
  • Dani: Switch to Java 11 as min version as it was already announced to happen in 4.17 stream shortly


June 2, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom

  • Inactive committer clean up for Eclipse project for the 4.16 release started via bug 563720
  • Infrastructure is really slow for RC2 release
  • RC2 bug queue is really low, one restart issue which is currently under investigated by Tom
  • Discussion about the JDT cleanup e-mails
    • Need to ensure community discussions are positive and respectful.
    • Expectations here should come from leadership
      • LibreOffice did this in the past to great success.
    • Committers can vote against bugs but the tone of the discussion is important.
    • PMC will respond via the public mailing list within a week


May 26, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ


May 19, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Dani: Issues with the build infrastructure, might endanger M3, the team got a working build for testing
  • Dani: PowerPC hardware was donated so builds are starting again for it
  • Alex: CQ process might get simpler based on blog post from Wayne, Alex to test and validate with Wayne https://blogs.eclipse.org/post/wayne-beaton/revising-eclipse-ip-due-diligence-process-third-party-content
  • Lars: Question if we want to allow "EGit" commit style in Eclipse top-level project. Agreement was to allow it but not to recommend it or enforce it


May 12, 2020 - Tom, Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex

  • Update to themes
    • Preference being added for choosing square vs round tabs
    • Intern from Alex's team is taking up the work
    • Update to Windows theme to be Windows 10
  • Alex brings up changes to CQ requirements. Need to read up on Wayne's post about this and discuss in a future call if we can change how the project does CQs
  • Who is running dark theme?
    • Need someone to cover test of Dark Theme on Linux. Lars indicated that he runs with Linux Dark Theme and can help in coverage
    • Dani described the various members of his team that cover the rest of the platforms
  • Request to contribute to article on what is new in the release for a June newsletter. Lars to contribute improvements in the Dark theme. General request to others to contribute anything else.
  • ppc64le build troubles
    • Been having ongoing issues with the university hosted ppc64le machine we use to build support for ppc64le
    • Currently the ppc64le build has been disabled
    • Need to find alternatives
      • May be able to use something from IBM public cloud
      • Other suggestions: McQ - look towards using emulation, Alex - could do cross-compilation
    • Need to plan if ppc 10 will supported in the future


May 5, 2020 - Dani, Alex, Lars, McQ, Tom

  • M2 shipped on time
    • Dark theme rebuild for M2 due to severe issue
  • ICU4J removal note sent
    • Lars - 2 years notice period needed?
    • Agreement: it's needed as we expose it in API and still have usages in internals so we need time to clean up ourself
    • EPPs cleanup - some blocked by JDT still using it, some by WTP, Rust probably the first one to be icu4j clean
  • Roundes vs square ctabfolder
    • Number of themes to be reduced
    • Performance not being measurable
    • Agreement: add preference to switch the rounded vs
    • Agreement: when preference is available Square is default
  • Windows theme update -
    • Fix colors to match Windows 10
    • GTK looks way more sane as more effort has been invested to keep it current
    • Don't set colors but use the colors from the OS theme is the recipe
    • Ugly white line on windows dark theme needs bugzilla open


April 28, 2020 - Dani, Alex, Lars


April 21, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • Q: How do we deal with ICU removal from data binding?
    • Need to follow standard API removal rules
      • Deprecate old API and offer new API
      • Remove deprecated API after 2 years
    • Can we put the old stuff in a fragment that could be removed?
  • Theming: rounded tabs versus square tabs (bug 562221)
    • Should we offer it at all?
    • Alex: Don’t increase the number of themes or options
    • Lars: Square tabs are faster
    • If speed is significant, we should consider changing the default


April 14, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • Dani
    • M1 shipped, no problems so far
    • Using ECJ from M1 to build the SDK has some issues, there are people working on it
    • 4.16 plan to be published this week
  • Unanimous decision to continue to use Zoom as usual


April 7, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • Dani
    • Created 4.16 plan
    • Created release record for 4.16. Corresponding bug is bug 561643
    • Sent note to add planning bugs for 4.16
    • Please review and provide feedback if any
    • After some infrastructure issues we have a good test build and currently things look good for M1 this week
  • Alex seconded the infrastructure issues and missing test results
  • ICU4J (bug 560312): we decided to remove it piece by piece from projects where possible and where someone is interested to do it. The ICU bundle itself will stay, and we will follow the API removal process when we are ready to remove it, i.e. no usage in the SDK anymore


March 31, 2020 - Dani, Alex, McQ, Tom, Lars

  • Dani: Contacted the ICU4J owner. He updated bug 560312, PMC members will review the comment and we will discuss next week
  • Dani: Planning bugs are created slowly for 4.16. Will send a reminder to the list to submit more. Started to work on plan and release record.


March 24, 2020 - Alex, McQ, Tom

  • Dani: Regrets for the call (Eclipse Board call)
  • Alex: status updates
    • JDT merged Java 14 in master
    • Build instability due to infra status
  • Alex: OSGi R8 modules support - what is it?
    • Tom: ability to represent external content in the OSGi framework
    • Alex: Will it allow shipping eclipse plugins as JPMS modules to ease native library handling?
    • Tom: Haven't found any clear example how JPMS handles this, so good example is needed before could be looked further.


March 17, 2020 - Alex, McQ, Lars Tom, Dani

  • ICU4J use still under discussion
    • Dani still to contact ICU4J owner
  • Shipping Java 14 and 4.15 this week
  • Java 14 work will be merged to master on Wednesday


March 10, 2020 - Lars, Tom

  • Dani: Regrets for the call (vacation)
  • ICU4J use still under discussion
    • if we can be confident that performance and language support are of *similar* quality, we should work towards removing icu4j because it reduces complexity for us, in addition allowing for smaller RCP apps
    • note that we already have mixed usage -- some components using icu4j and some not
  • to clarify approvals that require a project lead can be done by a project lead for any of the Eclipse Project subprojects
    • as usual, the project lead should take care to understand the change and its implications before approving
  • we will move to Jetty 10 (and thus to Java 11) for the fall release
  • RH will be leading releng for 4.16


March 3, 2020 - no meeting


February 25, 2020 - Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex

  • Dani: Created and sent Endgame plan
  • Dani: Submitted IP Log: https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21716
  • Alex: SWT on Linux in 4.16 to require Gtk 3.20 to simplify CSS machinery and prep for GTK4
  • Alex: ICU4J removal
    • Dani: ICU4J reacts faster to changes and supports more features (new Japanese era)
    • Alex: It might but Eclipse fails at keeping up so current version shipped with Eclipse misses features that the JVM supports (latest CLDR)
    • Dani: Asks for a proof that JVM is better that ICU
    • Alex: Which metrics to be measured?
    • Dani: Will check with ICU guy about that and whether it's still needed


February 18, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom

  • Dani: need to work on IP Log, Release Review and Endgame Plan
  • Lars: ECF - will we update to the latest
    • Alex: is in the works. Scott needs to provide us with the update
  • Tom: Found an issue with JUnit 5 launching but not reproducible with latest I-build
    • Dani: File a bug if you have steps or contact Noopur directly
  • Dani: Update on X-builds and tags


February 11, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom

  • Alex: Infrastructure is very instable, how can be complain to the foundation?
    • Alex: Eclipse foundation server team not responding to complains and seem unclear about the source of the issue
    • Discussion about makes a stronger statement to the foundation about the bad state of the infrastructure
    • McQ: Suggestion to send a note as PMC to the foundation
    • Dani: First we should ask webmaster why this takes so long
    • Alex: Marketplace infrastructure is also in bad state

-> Alex to contact Denis and to cc the other PMC members

February 4, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Tom

  • OSGi Spec talk
    • OSGi R8 Core will be done this year.
    • May be ready for 4.16, but no rush if it slips to 4.17
    • Will not put anything in master until spec is final which makes it more likely to be 4.17


January 28, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars

  • Ongoing saga of the EPP packages
    • Markus did it last week
    • PMC discussed possible futures here, but no conclusions
    • Discussion also happening at the board level
  • M2 is this week
  • Pushing for JUnit updates for M2


January 21, 2020 - Dani, Tom, Lars

  • Dani: EPP builds still missing, Dani contacted Markus Knauer to update EPP for M1, release train is at risk if nobody steps up
  • New test failures are investigated, action plan is to restart the test, if they still fails restart the machine and if the tests still fail, see if a revert fixes the test


January 14, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom

  • Dani: Switch to SUSE Enterprise 15, team is in favor to drop 12
  • Dani: Plan updated to remove Windows 7
  • Alex: Felix Dependencies for SCR done
    • confirm fix for bug 544571
    • releng disruptions during update, but recovered. More disruptions expected as we update dependencies for March release.
    • broken builds, need to get a list of issues. Seems to be more infrastructure issues. Need to report back to the foundation. Example, the signing issue that broken the respin.
  • Some discussion about gitlab option at foundation. bug 537913
    • What happens to gerrit work flow for review?
    • Would dropping bugzilla happen or can we migrate all issues?
    • Without migration it is a no-go for us
    • Currently no plans to move Eclipse project to gitlab at this time.


January 7, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars

  • Dani: Created initial 4.15 plan - please have a look
  • Dani: Created release record for 4.15
  • Dani: Sent a note to teams to create their 4.15 plan items/bugs
  • Dani: Do we want to drop support for Windows 7 (remove from Target Environments only)
    • Unanimous decision: Yes
  • Dani: Discuss (again, see below) resolution for stale bugs
    • We want to ask the webmaster that stale bugs are directly closed. ACTION ITEM for Lars
    • We will only auto/mass close existing stale bugs with notification turned off
  • Change rules about x-internal exports (bug 553709)
    • Decision:
    • - Newly added internal packages should not use x-internal exports unless there are very good reasons
    • - For existing packages the x-internal export can be removed with PMC approval

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