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= Documents =
 
= Documents =
 
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
  
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= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 +
'''April 28, 2021''' - Tom, Alex
 +
* Mac M1 changes are in to move to aarch64
 +
* Discussed progress on Jar signing issue for Java 16
 +
** Progress being made but will require some change in behavior of the Equinox SignedContent API
 +
** Will result in deprecation of at least one method
 +
** Working towards M3 solution.
 +
* Discussed move to PGP verification as alternative to signed JAR verification to p2
 +
** Progress being made there, hopefully get something for M3
 +
 +
 +
'''Mar 31, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars
 +
* Java 16 jar signing issue
 +
** Tom wants to replace equinox implementation with builtin Jar file implementation so changes don't have to be done in Equinox on each release
 +
* JSP/Jetty story in IDE
 +
** Do we still need same functionality?
 +
** Alex - get out of the business for help system. Dependencies (jetty, lucene) generate more releng work than we can handle.
 +
** McQ - url for plugin help would be simplest and open it in browser
 +
** Any change (e.g. JSP removal) has to go through standard deprecation period, announcements and etc.
 +
** Alex to initiate communication on longer term plan with Holger who works on improvements to help system lately
 +
 +
 +
'''Mar 31, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex
 +
 +
* PMC call time
 +
** Overlaps with Planning council call and both Tom and Alex can't make both
 +
-> Decision: Skip PMC call every first Wed of the month
 +
 +
* Webpage Hugo migration
 +
** Recommended by Eclipse Foundation and active contributor to do the conversion
 +
** Concerns about mixing old and new content are raised but they don't look severe
 +
** Supported by PMC
 +
-> Tom to handle initial communication on behalf of PMC
 +
 +
* Planning process relevance
 +
** the planning process is not providing the detailed and usable plans from the past
 +
** not a pain point as fewer people participate it but looks like useless exercise quite often
 +
** to be discussed....
 +
 +
 +
'''Mar 24, 2021''' - Tom, Alex, Lars
 +
 +
* Pack 200 - API removal in 2 years - 2023-06
 +
** Should we turn off all pack 200 features in one year, make it consistent across all Java versions.
 +
** 2022-06 - disable pack200 for all Java versions. Calling the deprecated API will be a no-op
 +
 +
* Pack 200 - When can we stop generating? Agreed on 2021-09 release.  We should set the precedence as early as possible to stop producing pack200 artifacts.
 +
 +
* split packages
 +
** Causing issues with mandatory directive and p2 {{bug|360659}} and with tycho.
 +
** Currently tycho requires some work arounds for usage of split packages
 +
** Can we work to get rid of split packages. We agreed to investigate the work and move to combine split packages if possible.
 +
 +
 +
'''Mar 17, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars
 +
* SWT Chromium support
 +
** Still no recent version of Chromium with security patches
 +
** Will be dropped in M1 (if no recent version is provided in the next weeks or if no one steps up)
 +
 +
* Pack 2000 support
 +
** not supported anymore as of Java 14
 +
** will be deprecated and marked for removal
 +
 +
* Moving Eclipse repos to Github
 +
** Moving to Github might simplify and therefore increase contributions
 +
** Huge amount of work in releng
 +
** Potentially we should all subprojects at the same time
 +
** We check if the foundation plans to move everything to Gitlab
 +
 +
 +
'''Mar 10, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex
 +
* Moving to Jetty 10 for next release
 +
* platform-dev discussion about move to GitHub
 +
** conversation is useful, but would take a lot of planning
 +
** lots of current rel eng dependencies on Gerrit
 +
*** need more community help for rel eng issues
 +
** a massive amount of history in our Bugzilla
 +
* release record and proto-plan created for 4.20
 +
 +
 +
'''Febr 17, 2021''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* Looks good for 4.19 release
 +
* Mac ARM has to wait for the 4.20 release, as the team fights multiple issues
 +
* Top-level project page can currently only be edited by Tom, other PMC members also have access to it https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/eclipse/who
 +
 +
 +
'''Dec 15, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* 06. January 2021 is the next meeting
 +
* How can PMC increase the awareness of the project leads / committers?
 +
** Maybe invite the project leads once per month to the PMC meeting?
 +
** Discussion how we can increase the JDT community
 +
 +
 +
'''Dec 01, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* RC1 is out; final touches on RC2
 +
* How can we remove the confusion about "e4" project?
 +
** e4 has always been intended to be a sandbox project where people could try things that are experimental or are on a longer timeline
 +
** Should be renamed to make it clear this isn't about leftovers from the Eclipse 4.0 work (maybe "eNext"?)
 +
** Should clean up repos
 +
*** Remove repos that just hold code that has already moved to the platform
 +
*** Remove repos that are no longer getting any investment
 +
*** Work toward moving things that are active/useful into the platform (e.g. "spies" to PDE)
 +
 +
'''Nov 24, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* PMC is considering the potential of an SDK / IDE working group at the foundation
 +
 +
* Discussion Do we need the extra releng work to create p2 repositories for milestones?
 +
** Lot of extra work and sometimes goes wrong
 +
** All I-Builds are anyway available
 +
 +
-> PMC decided to drop the additional p2 repository
 +
-> Alex will be sending out an email about it to inform potential users of the special p2 repos
 +
 +
** Discussion about the purpose of the milestone week at all
 +
-> Decision not to change the process for now, as the additional testing and focus has also some benefits
 +
 +
 +
'''Nov 17, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Release 4.18 winding down
 +
** SWT churn for Linux and Mac Big Sur
 +
** Does not appear the Foundation got the new Mac Hardware for testing
 +
* Planning Council discussion
 +
** Dani filled the Eclipse TLP representation role on the Council
 +
** Alex can take the lead to that role
 +
** Alex will look to find a replacement for the tools TLP representative
 +
 +
 +
'''Nov 10, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Still dealing with the loss of Dani
 +
* Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
 +
* Stabilizing for M3
 +
* Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
 +
* Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency
 +
 +
 +
'''Nov 10, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Still dealing with the loss of Dani
 +
* Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
 +
* Stabilizing for M3
 +
* Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
 +
* Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency
 +
 +
 +
'''Nov 3, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Dani!
 +
 +
 +
'''Oct 27, 2020''' - Lars, Tom
 +
* Nothing to discuss
 +
 +
 +
'''Oct 20, 2020''' - Lars, Tom, McQ, Alex
 +
* EclipseCon is running virtual this week
 +
* Agreement that removal of API should only before M1 release
 +
* Proof of concept for using Java 11 http client instead of ECF should be done
 +
* if we remove ECF we should send out an announcement and keep it for at least one release
 +
* Decision to start using the @Deprecated(since = "x.y.z", forRemoval = true) for planned API removals if the bundle can use Java 11, wiki for API removal should be updated
 +
 +
'''Oct 6, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, McQ, Alex
 +
* M1 under control
 +
* Release train materials being worked
 +
* Moved to Jetty 9.4.32
 +
* ECF — need to simplify how we consume http client
 +
** could use Java11 http client instead, but this would require significant development effort
 +
** Tom/Alex to take an initial stab at understanding scope + open bugs
 +
* Proposal: remove API once a year
 +
** Given the already long time for consumers to respond to API deprecation, PMC decision was to continue to allow API removal in any release. It was felt that the incremental benefit was outweighed by the need to be able to move forward quickly.
 +
 +
 +
'''Sep 15, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, Lars, Alex
 +
* M1
 +
** Next week M1 - Alex to send reminder note
 +
** Holiday in India on this Friday
 +
 +
* Y-Build for Java 16
 +
** Builds should be fixed and can continue to progress on Java 16
 +
 +
* SCR upgrade
 +
** Some issues with EBR maven plugin
 +
** causes versions to be incorrectly represented in p2 meta-data
 +
** Orbit needs a new lead, will end up impacting us if no replacement found
 +
 +
* Tycho being updated to be able to OSGi-fy JARs if they are not there yet.
 +
** How to use this for a feature?
 +
** Behaves much like Orbit to produce new versions of the artifact.
 +
** Could be the solution for Orbit needs.
 +
 +
 +
'''Sep 22, 2020''' - no meeting
 +
 +
 +
'''Sep 15, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Lars, Tom, Alex
 +
* Dani: Java 15 released today
 +
** 4.17 release together with Marketplace for Java 15 support are ready
 +
** JDT Java 15 to be merged this week
 +
* Dani: Zoom call with password unless each of the PMC members can be added as meeting owner so can start the meeting
 +
* Alex: 4.18 stream opened and releng work calmed down
 +
* Lars: Cleanup of migration guides
 +
** Dani: this will break existing links, so existing content have to stay unless someone does all the work to fix our plans and other links that will break
 +
** McQ: help system needs work to focus on the latest stuff/release, what should we do to achieve it? How can we better shape the help system now that having all content ofline is not a requirement?
 +
** Alex: do not ship migration, n&n,etc. but rather point to website url from help system
 +
** Alex: this would also reduce manual work for releng (+1 by Dani)
 +
** ACTION ITEM: Alex to work on n&n in help system to use the website content directly as a proof of concept for further work
 +
 +
 +
'''Sep 01, 2020''' - Lars, Alex
 +
* RC1 is fine, no additional requests for RC2
 +
 +
 +
'''August 25, 2020''' - Tom, Lars, Alex, Dani
 +
* Dani: sent out Endgame plan, RC1 this week, vacation starting on Friday
 +
* Alex informed about Red Hat's Releng participation
 +
  
'''October 7, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani, Martin
+
'''August 18, 2020''' - Tom, Lars, Dani
* Dani: '''{{bug|108668}} Default Text Encoding UTF-8 ?'''
+
* Dani to create and send out Endgame plan
** On Linux and Mac, the Platform encoding is UTF-8 ; on Windows it's Cp1252 in most countries around the globe, even with Windows 10
+
* Looking into Mac Big Sur launching issue ({{bug|565913}})
** Using the Platform encoding ensures interoperability with all local tools (editors, compilers, ...)
+
*** '''Desire for UTF-8 only for Windows exchanging files with users on other systems'''
+
*** '''Changing the encoding of an existing workspace after the fact is a no go''' (risk of data corruption when loading/saving a file, some encodings are lossy)
+
*** '''Using an encoding different than the OS encoding is problematic too''' (risk of data corruption when importing or D&D files from the OS)
+
** Proposal 1: UTF-8 on new empty workspaces on Windows ? --> Might mean that external tools don't work as expected
+
** Proposal 2: Make users aware (Restore Oomph Welcome, which was disabled via {{bug|459486}}) ? --> But many users don't understand implications, other tools also don't do this
+
** Proposal 3: Ask for encoding when team-sharing since only team-shared projects cause issues (eg EGit hook) ? --> But on "push" it may be too late
+
** Martin: Encoding describes content, so should be managed with the content (as a project setting)
+
*** '''--> Proposal 4: Move to a model where we encourage setting the project-level encoding preference'''
+
**** When creating a project, set the workspace default on project level automatically --> ensures that projects remain sane over their lifetime
+
**** For projects lacking the project-level preference, introduce a Problem Marker (Warning) with quick fix to either UTF-8 or workspace default
+
** '''Decision:'''
+
*** '''We won't change the workspace default''' -- no use breaking existing users
+
*** '''We'll set the project encoding pro-actively'''
+
** Open questions:
+
*** Do we need tooling to convert project from encoding A to encoding B (if project preference was set incorrectly initially) ?
+
*** Shall we try setting source encoding on drag-and-drop, or shall the project dictate the policy ?
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''September 30, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
 
* Dani: will send a note to PMC list asking to approve new Debug leadership (Sarika)
 
* Dani: we should finalize our API removal discussion from last week
 
** agreed that APIs marked for removal have to be annotated with @noreference, @noextend and @noimplement
 
** agreed that components should be allowed to remove API but they have to provide good reasons
 
** agreed that we won't allow to delete APIs simply because they are deprecated
 
** agreed that the PMC will decide case by case i.e. there will be no general rule
 
** regarding version numbering we decided to also decide this case by case
 
** Dani to update the removal document and have it reviewed by the PMC
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''August 11, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, Tom, McQ
 +
* Eclipse Foundation is getting access to an Apple Silicon dev kit
 +
** Will make it available to SWT devs via cloud connectivity
 +
* M3 next week; RC1 following week
 +
* ARM64 port seems to be working fine, except for browser widget (still investigating)
  
'''September 23, 2015''' - Dani, John, Alex, Martin
 
* Dani: '''JDT Core''' - Co-lead going to step up
 
* Dani: '''API Removal Discussion'''
 
** Q1: When do we actually delete API? What's the benefit compared to the pain that we cause ?
 
*** Example of methods that don't do anything any more or do wrong things -- those should be removed
 
*** Example TableTreeViewer : Continue having the API doesn't hurt, there's no significant benefit removing it
 
**** Alex: TableTree was completely broken on GTK for 2-3 years ... keeping such components that don't work properly lowers the quality
 
**** Dani: Is there actual proof of bugs ? Or could it be working fine on Windows RCP ? If it's deprecated, people use it at own risk; do we really need to break them, if it provides value to some people on some Platforms ?
 
**** John: In TableTreeViewer case, EMF had some generic code (was unclear if the path was ever taken) and CDT could update easily
 
*** '''Summary''': scheduling for removal is OK with good arguments. Give Adopters a chance to respond before removal takes place.
 
  
** Q2: '''How to deal with the versions?'''
+
'''August 4, 2020''' - Alex, Lars, Dani
*** Dani: Updating the major causes major pain on everyone (adoption work), so this should be avoided
+
* no topics to discuss
**** Actively developed plugins will notice source breakage when recompiling anyways -- no need to update the major for them.
+
**** For dormant plugins (not recompiled), everyone will break when updating the major although only few may be affected - is it worth notifying those small percentage that might break ?
+
**** Plugins who don't care recompiling may have to live with ClassNotFoundException
+
**** Tooling exists: API Use Scan Tools can discover incorrect API references that are not announced by the versions
+
*** '''Summary:''' Handle the Major with care -- in most cases, the cost of updating the major is not justified by the benefit.
+
  
** John: '''Announcement''' When thinking about removing something, we should announce that far and wide and ask for feedback
 
*** Martin: But which channel is as effective as actually removing it ? There's always who don't actually listen...
 
*** John: Still, giving a possibility to listen is important. Agree that mentioning in the release docs is not enough.
 
*** Dani: When making a release, also send message with a link to the removals page (for all removals that are planned)
 
** John: Mechanisms for maintaining binary compatibility while only breaking source compatibility (but it's a lot of work!)
 
*** Dani: Agree, in this case better just leave it in there
 
  
** Alex: What to do next time, can we remove more stuff ?
+
'''July 28, 2020''' - Tom, McQ
*** Martin: Should be at the discretion of the committers. They do the work. If they see the need for removal, they should be allowed to do so (as long as they play by the rules, like early announcement). Need to define what the rules are.
+
* no topics to discuss
  
** John: There was an interesting discussion on cross-project, asking for well-known points in time where major breakage can occur
 
*** Eg release but without all the deprecated at certain well-known point in time eg every 3-5 years
 
*** '''AI''' ''continue that discussion on the Architecture Council''
 
  
** '''Summary:''' Essentially do what we did, plus more communication upfront, allow people to respond before deletion happens (to avoid churn)
+
'''July 21, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars
*** Committers still need to be able to delete stuff when they find it necessary.
+
* no topics to discuss
*** Updating the major (or not) to be decided case by case, but in many cases "breaking everyone" is not justified against "notifying few dormant plugins".
+
* Alex on vacation next week
  
* Alex: '''Bumping the minimum GTK version again''' (may cause issues on Platforms like AIX -- to be discussed when it's time)
 
  
 +
'''July 14, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars
 +
* Project status
 +
** M1 shipped last week
 +
** Draft Plan for 4.17 posted - additional fixes done after review
 +
** Release record created for 4.17
 +
* CQ process discussion - new clearly defined process
 +
** Note sent to Wayne to get clarifications on handbook, Wayne has made some edits in response.  We need to review latest handbook
 +
** Should simplify IP clearance for third party libraries
 +
*** If a bundle is approved by clearly defined it can be added with no CQ as long as the mavin URLs/coordinates are vetted by clearly defined
 +
*** Orbit should soon automate the linking to clearly defined approvals for bundles added.  Currently a work in progress by Roland at Orbit.
 +
*** The ratings system at clearly defined is not used.  Only the license check is used.
 +
** PMC needs to review latest handbook on the topic ... As of now we should move forward with the new process
 +
*** If concerns arise later we will need to take actions to correct
 +
* {{bug|565066}} - Needs some attention to the solution and testing
 +
** attempt to make incremental installation be consistent with resolution of a fresh install (or -clean).
  
<hr/>
 
'''September 16, 2015''' - John, Martin
 
* John: '''API Removal Discussion'''
 
** No urgency now -- changes have been reverted for now, and scheduled for 2017
 
** Updating the major of a bundle knowingly breaks everyone/most adopters
 
*** In the past, breaking changes have often been small enough to work without increasing the major
 
*** One can argue that removing TableTreeViewer is big enough to warrant updating the major
 
** Versioning packages has not been done in the past due to the huge upcoming maintenance effort when starting to do so
 
** "Release Version" is decoupled from "bundle versions" already (and may move to date-based versions eg "2016.1" with rolling updates moving forward
 
** --&gt; will have more discussion next week
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''June 23, 2020''' - no call
'''September 9, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John, McQ
+
* John: '''Planning Council Updates'''
+
** 4 planned releases (March, June, September, December -- essentially end of each quarter) with flexible contents
+
** Mid December rather than end to avoid churn, so this one is a little shorter
+
** Only June is "major" - allowing to drop off, or breaking changes; others are "minor"
+
** McQ want to reduce the number of simultaneous streams -- if "master" is more stable more often that's OK, but avoid too many "live" streams
+
  
* Software is getting more important - would be good to better support multicore
+
'''June 16, 2020''' - no call
  
* John: '''IntelliJ change in licensing / sales model'''
+
'''June 9, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom
** Many eclipse-positive comments on the announcement blog
+
* McQ: message to guide the community got no public reactions so far
** Possibility putting Money on Eclipse Development may become interesting for companies in this context
+
* Dani: bug reports needed for JDT, do we have PMC agreement?
 +
** Alex: For me that was approved after jdt-dev vote ended
 +
** AGREED
 +
* Dani: RC2 done, no major bug so far but still monitoriing for regressions
 +
* Alex: 4.17 stream open, not finished until 4.16 if final so all apichecks and etc. are in proper shape
 +
* Tom: OSGi R8 merge after stabilizing 4.17 stream
 +
* Tom: OSGi Move to Java 8 right after that
 +
* Dani: Switch to Java 11 as min version as it was already announced to happen in 4.17 stream shortly
  
<hr/>
 
'''September 2, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
 
* Dani: '''EclipseDay India''' on Saturday, 200 attendees wanted to join, hat to cut to 150
 
** Keynote by Mike Milinkovich - large Community
 
  
* Dani: '''Policy for and Mars.2'''
+
'''June 2, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom
** Do we want to stick to the "Service" model or allow feature updates ?
+
* Inactive committer clean up for Eclipse project for the 4.16 release started via {{bug|563720}}
** Mars.1 winding down -- sticking to "Critical Fixes Only" for that
+
* Infrastructure is really slow for RC2 release
** Too much in the maintenance stream causes risk of defocus ... are there relevant features that are worth the extra effort ?
+
* RC2 bug queue is really low, one restart issue which is currently under investigated by Tom
** Dani: Suggests to require PMC Approval for adding a feature in - example candidate: Improvements for HiDPI
+
* Discussion about the JDT cleanup e-mails
*** Also: What about version number (2nd digit version update), IP disclosures, Translations ... ?
+
** Need to ensure community discussions are positive and respectful.
*** Dani would suggest sticking to 3rd digit update only in the marketing release number; but a Release Review would be needed
+
** Expectations here should come from leadership
 +
*** LibreOffice did this in the past to great success.
 +
** Committers can vote against bugs but the tone of the discussion is important.
 +
** PMC will respond via the public mailing list within a week
  
'''August 26, 2015''' -
 
* Dani/Alex/Martin can't join (traveling)
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''May 26, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ
'''August 19, 2015''' - Alex, Dani
+
* Closed all M3 bugs; RC1 looking good
* nothing to discuss
+
* Tips&tricks, new&noteworthy, contributions to the newsletter in progress
 +
* Chromium integration CQ approved -- https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21808
  
<hr/>
 
'''August 12, 2015''' - John, Dani
 
* John asked whether we run on Windows 10
 
** Dani: yes, the team already tested on it a few weeks ago. Runs smoothly one bug so far. Browser widget works despite new browser (Edge)
 
** ''Martin (added after the meeting): A CDT update is needed to keep the Terminal from hanging (see {{bug|474327}}, will release with Mars.1). Got some duplicates already. Workaround is switch the Win10 Console to "Legacy Mode".''
 
* Dani would like to get plan feedback by Friday EOD
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''May 19, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex
'''August 5, 2015''' - McQ, John, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Dani: Issues with the build infrastructure, might endanger M3, the team got a working build for testing
* PC meeting later today (planning calendar, calling SR1/2 "Update 1/2" instead
+
* Dani: PowerPC hardware was donated so builds are starting again for it
** adding another release before Christmas might be a next step - even if Platform contributes identical bits
+
* Alex: CQ process might get simpler based on blog post from Wayne, Alex to test and validate with Wayne https://blogs.eclipse.org/post/wayne-beaton/revising-eclipse-ip-due-diligence-process-third-party-content
 +
* Lars: Question if we want to allow "EGit" commit style in Eclipse top-level project. Agreement was to allow it but not to recommend it or enforce it
  
* Dani: '''[[Eclipse/Mars Retrospective]]'''
 
** Move more components to Tycho build? (Would still need Ant to test against final build/bits)
 
** Contribution Review Dates: joined by some components but not all
 
** Error Reporter: Interesting to look at top ten but the sheer number is too big
 
*** John - based on Orion experience with similar error reporting :
 
**** Looking at changes in reported issues is more interesting than looking at reports themselves
 
**** Reports help getting contributions (But, Dani finds that "just adding a null check" is often not what's desired for Java .. though helpful for Javascript)
 
  
* Dani: Foundation IP team doesn't require updating copyright notices per contribution any more (since that information is in git anyways)
+
'''May 12, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex
** The Project has to agree
+
* Update to themes
** Some contributors like to have their name in the source -- that's OK, no requirement to remove author information, but no requirement to add either
+
** Preference being added for choosing square vs round tabs
** Won't remove existing lists (they never claimed to be complete, since there always was the "...and others" copyright notice
+
** Intern from Alex's team is taking up the work
** Dani to sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02422.html request for voting]
+
** Update to Windows theme to be Windows 10
 +
* Alex brings up changes to CQ requirements.  Need to read up on Wayne's post about this and discuss in a future call if we can change how the project does CQs
 +
* Who is running dark theme?
 +
** Need someone to cover test of Dark Theme on Linux. Lars indicated that he runs with Linux Dark Theme and can help in coverage
 +
** Dani described the various members of his team that cover the rest of the platforms
 +
* Request to contribute to article on what is new in the release for a June newsletter. Lars to contribute improvements in the Dark theme. General request to others to contribute anything else.
 +
* ppc64le build troubles
 +
** Been having ongoing issues with the university hosted ppc64le machine we use to build support for ppc64le
 +
** Currently the ppc64le build has been disabled
 +
** Need to find alternatives
 +
*** May be able to use something from IBM public cloud
 +
*** Other suggestions: McQ - look towards using emulation, Alex - could do cross-compilation
 +
** Need to plan if ppc 10 will supported in the future
  
* Dani: Switching to '''Jetty 9.3.x (which requires JRE 8)'''
 
** JRE 8 from Oracle (and also from IBM) exists for all Reference Platforms
 
** Except Solaris, because we only support Solaris 32-bit and the JRE only exists as 64-bit
 
** But the Plan for Neon is to have 64-bit Solaris support
 
** New Language features in Java 8 are adopted, contributors would like to start using Java 8
 
** McQ: In the past, staying on older Java was desired to enable more widespread use ... today, this argument does not seem valid any more, in fact likely more contributions / community is enabled by moving to Java 8
 
** Dani: Only concern is some "non reference" Platforms like HP-UX might not have JREs initially; but that's OK as long as the reference platforms are good
 
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move to JRE 8 and allow projects to use Java 8 in their code.
 
  
* Dani: Looking for a contributor for SWT improvements for GTK3
+
'''May 5, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, Lars, McQ, Tom
  
* Martin: '''libwebkitgtk-3 on Ubuntu 14 forcing GTK 2''' not working ?
+
* M2 shipped on time
** Alex: Using libwebkitgtk-4 which is much more stable, but not implementing the full SWT API
+
** Dark theme rebuild for M2 due to severe issue
** Most distros don't ship libwebkit for gtk-2 any more since it's not supported upstream any more and has many security issues
+
* ICU4J removal note sent
 +
** Lars - 2 years notice period needed?
 +
** Agreement: it's needed as we expose it in API and still have usages in internals so we need time to clean up ourself
 +
** EPPs cleanup - some blocked by JDT still using it, some by WTP, Rust probably the first one to be icu4j clean
 +
* Roundes vs square ctabfolder
 +
** Number of themes to be reduced
 +
** Performance not being measurable
 +
** Agreement: add preference to switch the rounded vs
 +
** Agreement: when preference is available Square is default
 +
* Windows theme update -
 +
** Fix colors to match Windows 10
 +
** GTK looks way more sane as more effort has been invested to keep it current
 +
** Don't set colors but use the colors from the OS theme is the recipe
 +
** Ugly white line on windows dark theme needs bugzilla open
  
* Alex: '''Build SWT at the Foundation'''
 
** Work with the Foundation going well, expect to have RHEL machines deployed at the foundation next month
 
  
 +
'''April 28, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, Lars
  
<hr/>
+
* PMC decided that the OS specific themes should be removed, https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=562227
'''July 15, 22 and 29, 2015''' -- no meeting
+
* Windows light theme should become better https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=551462
 +
* Dani - This week is M2, no special freeze or testing but we will contribute our build from Friday to the simrel
 +
* Databinding analyis was done by Jens Lindstroem and it looks good for an API compliant solution
 +
* Alex will prepare the information for cross that we will drop ibm icu from the SDK build
  
<hr/>
 
'''July 8, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Alex
 
* John: '''Cross-Language Tooling Discussion''' on the eclipse.org-architecture-council and ide-dev mailing lists
 
* decided to cancel the upcoming July meetings
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''April 21, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars
'''July 1, 2015''' -- no meeting
+
* Q: How do we deal with ICU removal from data binding?
 +
** Need to follow standard API removal rules
 +
*** Deprecate old API and offer new API
 +
*** Remove deprecated API after 2 years
 +
** Can we put the old stuff in a fragment that could be removed?
 +
* Theming: rounded tabs versus square tabs ({{bug|562221}})
 +
** Should we offer it at all?
 +
** Alex: Don’t increase the number of themes or options
 +
** Lars: Square tabs are faster
 +
** If speed is significant, we should consider changing the default
  
<hr/>
 
'''June 24, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
 
* Dani: '''Java 9''' - <a href="http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/eclipse-java%E2%84%A2-9-support-beta-mars">EAR Feature Patch</a> on the Marketplace NOW
 
** No JARs any more - JRE is doing things internally using "jimage" format; updated search etc to create projects and work against them
 
** If the Jimage filesystem provider isn't backported, one has to run the IDE on Java9 in order to code Java9
 
** Modules are just a list of packages (and can refer to other modules) - no real JSR describing the plan yet - seems like just a replacement of "Profiles" (and JARs)
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''April 14, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars
'''June 17, 2015''' - Dani, John, Martin, Alex
+
* Dani
* John: '''Mars''' Platform in good shape for Mars - EPP respin for Error Reporting
+
** M1 shipped, no problems so far
* Dani: '''Crashes with Java 8''' - Potentially will add to the online README
+
** Using ECJ from M1 to build the SDK has some issues, there are people working on it
** Happens in the JIT, with latest Oracle Java 8 (with 8 Cores and very specific circumstances)
+
** 4.16 plan to be published this week
** See {{Bug|465693}} - Probably https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8078262
+
* Unanimous decision to continue to use Zoom as usual
* Alex: '''XDG Application''' - looks like Docker but a similar idea
+
** Environment description of the runtime - helps specifying the line-up of library versions that we test against and use
+
** Big part of GNOME / GTK already pushing for it, might make sense to consider alignment
+
** GNOME working towards compiling with a really old compiler, such that the physically identical bits can run against a large set of distros
+
** See https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps
+
** But if you want to try it out please read https://blogs.gnome.org/alexl/2015/06/17/testing-rawhide-apps-using-xdg-app/
+
  
<hr/>
 
  
'''June 10, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
'''April 7, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars
* Dani: 4.5RC4 looking good, no more fixes planned
+
* Dani
* Dani: Working on Java 9 feature patch
+
** Created [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_16.xml 4.16 plan]
* Alex: PC discussing a change in the release train
+
** Created [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=561643 release record for 4.16]. Corresponding bug is {{bug|561643}}
** Current common ground seems to be a request for more release points, and projects could decide whether they do features or maintenance
+
** Sent note to add planning bugs for 4.16
** From Platform point of view, stability is key. Some key contributors not interested doing
+
** '''Please review and provide feedback if any'''
** Martin: How to also cater to contributors who want their contributions released soon ?
+
** After some infrastructure issues we have a good test build and currently things look good for M1 this week
*** Martin Idea: With Tycho, building the Platform is easier so ask contributors build themselves
+
* Alex seconded the infrastructure issues and missing test results
*** Or, open up a new "experimental" stream ?
+
* ICU4J ({{bug|560312}}): we decided to remove it piece by piece from projects where possible and where someone is interested to do it. The ICU bundle itself will stay, and we will follow the API removal process when we are ready to remove it, i.e. no usage in the SDK anymore
*** Dani Idea: Market milestone builds differently, as "fully consumable" would serve the same purpose
+
* Martin: Tested eclipse-installer (Oomph), looking really really good now
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''June 3, 2015''' - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
 
* Dani: '''Mars Endgame'''
 
* Dani: Please vote for release review
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 31, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, McQ, Tom, Lars
'''May 20, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
* Dani: Contacted the ICU4J owner. He updated {{bug|560312}}, PMC members will review the comment and we will discuss next week
* Dani: '''Security Update''' - Platform work done, Orbit updated, reached out to Wayne and other affected projects.
+
* Dani: Planning bugs are created slowly for 4.16. Will send a reminder to the list to submit more. Started to work on plan and release record.
* Dani: '''RC2 Build''' - too many bugs assigned, Lars on Vacation, Dani will fill in
+
* McQ: '''Too Many Platforms Built?''' - Who's really hurt by "too many builds" ?
+
** Will meet with Mike & Foundation tomorrow, Alex is also interested (Dani to check).
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''May 13, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Martin
 
* John, Dani - Mars Endgame looking good
 
* Alex - {{bug|465874}} Lucene 5 looking good, almost done - Ready to commit as soon as CQs are in and Mars+1 is open
 
* JDT for Java 9 - will need a wider discussion with EMO on make it easier to publish the work, e.g. in normal builds
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 24, 2020''' - Alex, McQ, Tom
'''May 6, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
* Dani: Regrets for the call (Eclipse Board call)
* Dani: '''Java 9 timing''' - slight delay
+
* Alex: status updates
* Dani: RC1 preps
+
** JDT merged Java 14 in master
** 2-day test pass went fine - 2 severe issues found, will be addressed
+
** Build instability due to infra status
** Request to watch PMC mailing list for API exceptions and defect approvals
+
* Alex: OSGi R8 modules support - what is it?
* John: '''PC Discussion on Release Cycles'''
+
** Tom: ability to represent external content in the OSGi framework
** Multiple releases per year PLUS maintenance streams seems like overkill
+
** Alex: Will it allow shipping eclipse plugins as JPMS modules to ease native library handling?
** Consider an approach like Orion that just moves constantly forward
+
** Tom: Haven't found any clear example how JPMS handles this, so good example is needed before could be looked further.
** Especially for the Platform, being rock solid is most important. Still to attract new contributors we need to allow more frequent "feature updates".
+
*** A model where both "stable/maintenance" _and_ "features" are contributed to the train might be too much work/overhead.
+
*** Consider a model like Ubuntu, ... with some release numbers being "stable/LTS base" and others being "in-between feature releases" ?
+
*** Consider a model like LTS for maintenance fixes / aside mainstream just moving forward ?
+
  
  
'''April 15, 2015''' - Dani, John, McQ, Alex, Martin
+
'''March 17, 2020''' - Alex, McQ, Lars Tom, Dani
* Dani: '''Java 1.7 Changes'''
+
* ICU4J use still under discussion
** Some bundles have been moved to a 1.7 BREE by new committers, even after API freeze
+
** Dani still to contact ICU4J owner
** Rule has always been "we move up when there's a reason to move up". We won't move up without reason.
+
* Shipping Java 14 and 4.15 this week
*** Dani: Moving the BREE may even cause API changes, so should only be done when incrementing the minor version (5% risk)
+
* Java 14 work will be merged to master on Wednesday
*** Alex: Such updates allow staying current and not get to "rewrite is needed" state (thus needed) but has to happen before M6 (API freeze)
+
** Alex suggest not accepting additional changes, but not reverting either (to avoid churn)
+
* Dani: '''Batik 1.6 update'''
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''April 8, 2015''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, John, McQ
 
* Dani: '''Batik''' - Platform is good, Train may need to update, perhaps updating one bundle only would suffice. John will follow up.
 
* Alex: '''SWT for GTK 3 News'''
 
** GTK port finally decoupled from X11 - it renders on Wayland now, can switch the renderer to a pure HTML one
 
** This opens up opportunities (but depends on hosts that have GTK).
 
  
 +
'''March 10, 2020''' - Lars, Tom
 +
* Dani: Regrets for the call (vacation)
 +
* ICU4J use still under discussion
 +
** if we can be confident that performance and language support are of *similar* quality, we should work towards removing icu4j because it reduces complexity for us, in addition allowing for smaller RCP apps
 +
** note that we already have mixed usage -- some components using icu4j and some not
 +
* to clarify approvals that require a project lead can be done by a project lead for any of the Eclipse Project subprojects
 +
** as usual, the project lead should take care to understand the change and its implications before approving
 +
* we will move to Jetty 10 (and thus to Java 11) for the fall release
 +
* RH will be leading releng for 4.16
  
<hr/>
 
'''April 1, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani (Regrets: John travelling)
 
* Alex: '''GTK 3.16''' seeing issues again - fixed some crashes, but scrolling is still entirely broken
 
** SWT uses a number of things that GTK declares as "implementation detail"
 
* PMC approval on piggyback CQ's (AC question forwarded by John)
 
** Dani sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02332.html our position] to John in order to update the AC
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 3, 2020''' - no meeting
'''March 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
+
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - Bigger this year due to LocationTech (750 attendees)
+
** Mark Reinhold keynote and "after-session" on Java 9
+
** Much interest in Orion JS tooling / editor, also on desktop
+
** Public face of Eclipse Platform at the conference was much more diverse than in the past (Lars Vogel, Max Anderson, Google ...)
+
* Dani: {{bug|458730}} '''Mars Plan Update'''
+
* Dani: '''e4 project leadership''' approved by EMO
+
* Dani: Szymon Brandys resigned as Platform/Resources co-lead. Need to +1 on the mailing list
+
  
<hr/>
 
  
'''March 11, 2015 - no meeting (EclipseCon)'''
+
'''February 25, 2020''' - Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex
 +
* Dani: Created and sent Endgame plan
 +
* Dani: Submitted IP Log: https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21716
 +
* Alex: SWT on Linux in 4.16 to require Gtk 3.20 to simplify CSS machinery and prep for GTK4
 +
* Alex: ICU4J removal
 +
** Dani: ICU4J reacts faster to changes and supports more features (new Japanese era)
 +
** Alex: It might but Eclipse fails at keeping up so current version shipped with Eclipse misses features that the JVM supports (latest CLDR)
 +
** Dani: Asks for a proof that JVM is better that ICU
 +
** Alex: Which metrics to be measured?
 +
** Dani: Will check with ICU guy about that and whether it's still needed
  
<hr/>
 
  
'''March 4, 2015''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, John
+
'''February 18, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom
* Dani: '''e4 leadership''' - Dani will volunteer to co-lead
+
* Dani: need to work on IP Log, Release Review and Endgame Plan
* Dani: '''BREEs''' - documentation about how to pick the EE
+
* Lars: ECF - will we update to the latest
** Recommending the "earliest generally supported JRE that provides the capabilities you need"
+
** Alex: is in the works. Scott needs to provide us with the update
** Would like an URL on the page pointing to the most recent plan (talking to Wayne)
+
* Tom: Found an issue with JUnit 5 launching but not reproducible with latest I-build
* John: '''greatfix contest'''
+
** Dani: File a bug if you have steps or contact Noopur directly
** Dani: Working well - some very small contributions but some also very large (eg Customize Perspective fixes)
+
* Dani: Update on X-builds and tags
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - numbers looking good; join Planning Council Breakfast as delegate for Dani
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''February 25, 2015''' - Dani, Martin McQ
 
* No topics
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''February 11, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom
'''February 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Alex: Infrastructure is very instable, how can be complain to the foundation?
* Alex: '''Building Native Launchers'''
+
** Alex: Eclipse foundation server team not responding to complains and seem unclear about the source of the issue
** Current way of building is kinda unpredictable - even if getting some agreement on versions to use, results are kinda unpredictable
+
** Discussion about makes a stronger statement to the foundation about the bad state of the infrastructure
** Pushing towards Hudson RHEL builders at least at the EF to get more transparency and automation - attempt to mimic the infrastructure at IBM
+
** McQ: Suggestion to send a note as PMC to the foundation
** Looking at 3 primary architectures (at the EF) for Linux vs. secondary architectures (non-public builders potentially)
+
** Dani: First we should ask webmaster why this takes so long
* Dani: Great initiative, but other (non-EF) builders must not be broken
+
** Alex: Marketplace infrastructure is also in bad state
** EF doesn't allow any commercial tools (but currently, e.g. Windows launchers are built with MSVS)
+
*** Dead marketplace entries are not getting removed https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=550713
* Alex is willing to spend time to get Linux builds running; but can't help with other architectures
+
*** No clean contact person from the foundation
** Martin: great approach - for Windows, using a cross-compiler on Linux might be interesting (after Linux native works)
+
*** Marketplace is also not Open Source hence we cannot fix thing ourself.
* Alex: This is just phase one - getting rid of the binaries in git repos might be phase 2 (since the checked-in binaries easily cause inconsistencies between Java and Native side)
+
** Martin: Checked-in binaries help consumers and contributors who just want to make a Java change
+
** Dani: Checked-in binaries are also used for comparing build results for expected vs accidental changes
+
  
* Alex: '''{{bug|459399}} - Policy for recommended minimum execution environments for bundles'''
+
-> Alex to contact Denis and to cc the other PMC members
** Dani: It works today
+
*** To run Eclipse, Java 8 or Java 9 can be used (minimum BREE has no impact)
+
*** To modify the source, a new JRE can be used but then the Execution Environment Descriptions need to be installed
+
** Policy as discussed in the past: Each project can increase the BREE if there is a real need (such as generifying) and no upstream clients are broken
+
*** But don't change the BREE without justification -- changing the BREE always has some effect, such as new warnings that would need to be addressed
+
*** Suggested BREE for new bundles has already been changed by Lars
+
* Alex: Even for bundles in "maintenance mode", old BREE causes issues for people who build from source (who have to change compilers etc)
+
* No conclusion so far (Alex and Dani disagree)
+
  
* Dani: '''e4 leadership'''
+
'''February 4, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Tom
** Mature bits being moved to Eclipse - e4 remaining as an incubator to keep alive for experiments with low entry barrier
+
* OSGi Spec talk
 +
** OSGi R8 Core will be done this year.
 +
** May be ready for 4.16, but no rush if it slips to 4.17
 +
** Will not put anything in master until spec is final which makes it more likely to be 4.17
  
<hr/>
 
'''February 11, 2015''' - Dani, Alex
 
* no topics
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''January 28, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars
 +
* Ongoing saga of the EPP packages
 +
** Markus did it last week
 +
** PMC discussed possible futures here, but no conclusions
 +
** Discussion also happening at the board level
 +
* M2 is this week
 +
* Pushing for JUnit updates for M2
  
'''February 4, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
 
* Alex: With GTK-3.15.[345] , Eclipse is entirely unusable
 
** Alex has some dirty workarounds to make it start, but still many issues like trees not painted, ...
 
** Crash on startup identified to be GTK bug. Fix to be released in 3.15.6 https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=edec64cda3d4518b4e87d5ea5d287d4570ba9933
 
* Dani: Working on Solaris 64-bit
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''January 21, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, Lars
 +
* Dani: EPP builds still missing, Dani contacted Markus Knauer to update EPP for M1, release train is at risk if nobody steps up
 +
* New test failures are investigated, action plan is to restart the test, if they still fails restart the machine and if the tests still fail, see if a revert fixes the test
  
'''January 28, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, John
 
* Dani: Switch Mac OS X 10.9 with 10.10 in Mars target environments
 
** No objections
 
* Alex: Looking for any Eclipse related activity @Fosdem
 
<hr/>
 
  
'''January 21, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
'''January 14, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom
* Alex: '''Process for allowing non-committers extended bugzilla privileges (for bug triage)?'''
+
* Dani: Switch to SUSE Enterprise 15, team is in favor to drop 12
** Dani: Yes a process exists. Send bugzilla username to Dani.
+
* Dani: Plan updated to remove Windows 7
* Alex: '''New resource for helping with SWT'''
+
* Alex: Felix Dependencies for SCR done
* Dani: '''Platform/UI co-lead'''
+
** confirm fix for {{bug|544571}}
* Dani: Solaris: Java 8 will only support 64 bits on both Intel and SPARC --&gt; IBM SWT Team considering to invest in getting patches in for 64-bit Solaris
+
** releng disruptions during update, but recovered.  More disruptions expected as we update dependencies for March release.
 +
** broken builds, need to get a list of issues. Seems to be more infrastructure issues.  Need to report back to the foundation. Example, the signing issue that broken the respin.
 +
* Some discussion about gitlab option at foundation. {{bug|537913}}
 +
** What happens to gerrit work flow for review?
 +
** Would dropping bugzilla happen or can we migrate all issues?
 +
** Without migration it is a no-go for us
 +
** Currently no plans to move Eclipse project to gitlab at this time.
  
<hr/>
 
'''January 14, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 
* Dani: Update on Platform/UI Leadership: Daniel Rolka left IBM and for now has no time to contribute. He stepped down as co-lead and nominated Lars Vogel
 
* Dani: Solaris x86 64-bit support - patches exist, but no machine available. No luck to get one from Oracle or via Eclipse Foundation. We will not support Solaris x86 64-bit unless someone makes a machine available
 
<hr/>
 
  
'''January 7, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''January 7, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars
* Dani: '''Platform/UI Leadership'''
+
* Dani: Created initial 4.15 plan - please have a look
* John: '''Git security issue''' - pick up a patch for Jgit in the packages before SR2? - Mostly an EPP
+
* Dani: Created release record for 4.15
<hr/>
+
* Dani: Sent a note to teams to create their 4.15 plan items/bugs
 +
* Dani: Do we want to drop support for Windows 7 (remove from Target Environments only)
 +
** Unanimous decision: Yes
 +
* Dani: Discuss (again, see below) resolution for stale bugs
 +
** We want to ask the webmaster that stale bugs are directly closed. ACTION ITEM for Lars
 +
** We will only auto/mass close existing stale bugs with notification turned off
 +
* Change rules about x-internal exports ({{bug|553709}})
 +
** Decision:
 +
** - Newly added internal packages should not use x-internal exports unless there are very good reasons
 +
** - For existing packages the x-internal export can be removed with PMC approval
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2019 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2019]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2018 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2018]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2017 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2017]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]

Latest revision as of 11:00, 28 April 2021

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

April 28, 2021 - Tom, Alex

  • Mac M1 changes are in to move to aarch64
  • Discussed progress on Jar signing issue for Java 16
    • Progress being made but will require some change in behavior of the Equinox SignedContent API
    • Will result in deprecation of at least one method
    • Working towards M3 solution.
  • Discussed move to PGP verification as alternative to signed JAR verification to p2
    • Progress being made there, hopefully get something for M3


Mar 31, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars

  • Java 16 jar signing issue
    • Tom wants to replace equinox implementation with builtin Jar file implementation so changes don't have to be done in Equinox on each release
  • JSP/Jetty story in IDE
    • Do we still need same functionality?
    • Alex - get out of the business for help system. Dependencies (jetty, lucene) generate more releng work than we can handle.
    • McQ - url for plugin help would be simplest and open it in browser
    • Any change (e.g. JSP removal) has to go through standard deprecation period, announcements and etc.
    • Alex to initiate communication on longer term plan with Holger who works on improvements to help system lately


Mar 31, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex

  • PMC call time
    • Overlaps with Planning council call and both Tom and Alex can't make both

-> Decision: Skip PMC call every first Wed of the month

  • Webpage Hugo migration
    • Recommended by Eclipse Foundation and active contributor to do the conversion
    • Concerns about mixing old and new content are raised but they don't look severe
    • Supported by PMC

-> Tom to handle initial communication on behalf of PMC

  • Planning process relevance
    • the planning process is not providing the detailed and usable plans from the past
    • not a pain point as fewer people participate it but looks like useless exercise quite often
    • to be discussed....


Mar 24, 2021 - Tom, Alex, Lars

  • Pack 200 - API removal in 2 years - 2023-06
    • Should we turn off all pack 200 features in one year, make it consistent across all Java versions.
    • 2022-06 - disable pack200 for all Java versions. Calling the deprecated API will be a no-op
  • Pack 200 - When can we stop generating? Agreed on 2021-09 release. We should set the precedence as early as possible to stop producing pack200 artifacts.
  • split packages
    • Causing issues with mandatory directive and p2 bug 360659 and with tycho.
    • Currently tycho requires some work arounds for usage of split packages
    • Can we work to get rid of split packages. We agreed to investigate the work and move to combine split packages if possible.


Mar 17, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars

  • SWT Chromium support
    • Still no recent version of Chromium with security patches
    • Will be dropped in M1 (if no recent version is provided in the next weeks or if no one steps up)
  • Pack 2000 support
    • not supported anymore as of Java 14
    • will be deprecated and marked for removal
  • Moving Eclipse repos to Github
    • Moving to Github might simplify and therefore increase contributions
    • Huge amount of work in releng
    • Potentially we should all subprojects at the same time
    • We check if the foundation plans to move everything to Gitlab


Mar 10, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex

  • Moving to Jetty 10 for next release
  • platform-dev discussion about move to GitHub
    • conversation is useful, but would take a lot of planning
    • lots of current rel eng dependencies on Gerrit
      • need more community help for rel eng issues
    • a massive amount of history in our Bugzilla
  • release record and proto-plan created for 4.20


Febr 17, 2021 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • Looks good for 4.19 release
  • Mac ARM has to wait for the 4.20 release, as the team fights multiple issues
  • Top-level project page can currently only be edited by Tom, other PMC members also have access to it https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/eclipse/who


Dec 15, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • 06. January 2021 is the next meeting
  • How can PMC increase the awareness of the project leads / committers?
    • Maybe invite the project leads once per month to the PMC meeting?
    • Discussion how we can increase the JDT community


Dec 01, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • RC1 is out; final touches on RC2
  • How can we remove the confusion about "e4" project?
    • e4 has always been intended to be a sandbox project where people could try things that are experimental or are on a longer timeline
    • Should be renamed to make it clear this isn't about leftovers from the Eclipse 4.0 work (maybe "eNext"?)
    • Should clean up repos
      • Remove repos that just hold code that has already moved to the platform
      • Remove repos that are no longer getting any investment
      • Work toward moving things that are active/useful into the platform (e.g. "spies" to PDE)

Nov 24, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • PMC is considering the potential of an SDK / IDE working group at the foundation
  • Discussion Do we need the extra releng work to create p2 repositories for milestones?
    • Lot of extra work and sometimes goes wrong
    • All I-Builds are anyway available

-> PMC decided to drop the additional p2 repository -> Alex will be sending out an email about it to inform potential users of the special p2 repos

    • Discussion about the purpose of the milestone week at all

-> Decision not to change the process for now, as the additional testing and focus has also some benefits


Nov 17, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Release 4.18 winding down
    • SWT churn for Linux and Mac Big Sur
    • Does not appear the Foundation got the new Mac Hardware for testing
  • Planning Council discussion
    • Dani filled the Eclipse TLP representation role on the Council
    • Alex can take the lead to that role
    • Alex will look to find a replacement for the tools TLP representative


Nov 10, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Still dealing with the loss of Dani
  • Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
  • Stabilizing for M3
  • Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
  • Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency


Nov 10, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Still dealing with the loss of Dani
  • Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
  • Stabilizing for M3
  • Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
  • Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency


Nov 3, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Dani!


Oct 27, 2020 - Lars, Tom

  • Nothing to discuss


Oct 20, 2020 - Lars, Tom, McQ, Alex

  • EclipseCon is running virtual this week
  • Agreement that removal of API should only before M1 release
  • Proof of concept for using Java 11 http client instead of ECF should be done
  • if we remove ECF we should send out an announcement and keep it for at least one release
  • Decision to start using the @Deprecated(since = "x.y.z", forRemoval = true) for planned API removals if the bundle can use Java 11, wiki for API removal should be updated

Oct 6, 2020 - Dani, Tom, McQ, Alex

  • M1 under control
  • Release train materials being worked
  • Moved to Jetty 9.4.32
  • ECF — need to simplify how we consume http client
    • could use Java11 http client instead, but this would require significant development effort
    • Tom/Alex to take an initial stab at understanding scope + open bugs
  • Proposal: remove API once a year
    • Given the already long time for consumers to respond to API deprecation, PMC decision was to continue to allow API removal in any release. It was felt that the incremental benefit was outweighed by the need to be able to move forward quickly.


Sep 15, 2020 - Dani, Tom, Lars, Alex

  • M1
    • Next week M1 - Alex to send reminder note
    • Holiday in India on this Friday
  • Y-Build for Java 16
    • Builds should be fixed and can continue to progress on Java 16
  • SCR upgrade
    • Some issues with EBR maven plugin
    • causes versions to be incorrectly represented in p2 meta-data
    • Orbit needs a new lead, will end up impacting us if no replacement found
  • Tycho being updated to be able to OSGi-fy JARs if they are not there yet.
    • How to use this for a feature?
    • Behaves much like Orbit to produce new versions of the artifact.
    • Could be the solution for Orbit needs.


Sep 22, 2020 - no meeting


Sep 15, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Lars, Tom, Alex

  • Dani: Java 15 released today
    • 4.17 release together with Marketplace for Java 15 support are ready
    • JDT Java 15 to be merged this week
  • Dani: Zoom call with password unless each of the PMC members can be added as meeting owner so can start the meeting
  • Alex: 4.18 stream opened and releng work calmed down
  • Lars: Cleanup of migration guides
    • Dani: this will break existing links, so existing content have to stay unless someone does all the work to fix our plans and other links that will break
    • McQ: help system needs work to focus on the latest stuff/release, what should we do to achieve it? How can we better shape the help system now that having all content ofline is not a requirement?
    • Alex: do not ship migration, n&n,etc. but rather point to website url from help system
    • Alex: this would also reduce manual work for releng (+1 by Dani)
    • ACTION ITEM: Alex to work on n&n in help system to use the website content directly as a proof of concept for further work


Sep 01, 2020 - Lars, Alex

  • RC1 is fine, no additional requests for RC2


August 25, 2020 - Tom, Lars, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: sent out Endgame plan, RC1 this week, vacation starting on Friday
  • Alex informed about Red Hat's Releng participation


August 18, 2020 - Tom, Lars, Dani

  • Dani to create and send out Endgame plan
  • Looking into Mac Big Sur launching issue (bug 565913)


August 11, 2020 - Alex, Dani, Tom, McQ

  • Eclipse Foundation is getting access to an Apple Silicon dev kit
    • Will make it available to SWT devs via cloud connectivity
  • M3 next week; RC1 following week
  • ARM64 port seems to be working fine, except for browser widget (still investigating)


August 4, 2020 - Alex, Lars, Dani

  • no topics to discuss


July 28, 2020 - Tom, McQ

  • no topics to discuss


July 21, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars

  • no topics to discuss
  • Alex on vacation next week


July 14, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars

  • Project status
    • M1 shipped last week
    • Draft Plan for 4.17 posted - additional fixes done after review
    • Release record created for 4.17
  • CQ process discussion - new clearly defined process
    • Note sent to Wayne to get clarifications on handbook, Wayne has made some edits in response. We need to review latest handbook
    • Should simplify IP clearance for third party libraries
      • If a bundle is approved by clearly defined it can be added with no CQ as long as the mavin URLs/coordinates are vetted by clearly defined
      • Orbit should soon automate the linking to clearly defined approvals for bundles added. Currently a work in progress by Roland at Orbit.
      • The ratings system at clearly defined is not used. Only the license check is used.
    • PMC needs to review latest handbook on the topic ... As of now we should move forward with the new process
      • If concerns arise later we will need to take actions to correct
  • bug 565066 - Needs some attention to the solution and testing
    • attempt to make incremental installation be consistent with resolution of a fresh install (or -clean).


June 23, 2020 - no call

June 16, 2020 - no call

June 9, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom

  • McQ: message to guide the community got no public reactions so far
  • Dani: bug reports needed for JDT, do we have PMC agreement?
    • Alex: For me that was approved after jdt-dev vote ended
    • AGREED
  • Dani: RC2 done, no major bug so far but still monitoriing for regressions
  • Alex: 4.17 stream open, not finished until 4.16 if final so all apichecks and etc. are in proper shape
  • Tom: OSGi R8 merge after stabilizing 4.17 stream
  • Tom: OSGi Move to Java 8 right after that
  • Dani: Switch to Java 11 as min version as it was already announced to happen in 4.17 stream shortly


June 2, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom

  • Inactive committer clean up for Eclipse project for the 4.16 release started via bug 563720
  • Infrastructure is really slow for RC2 release
  • RC2 bug queue is really low, one restart issue which is currently under investigated by Tom
  • Discussion about the JDT cleanup e-mails
    • Need to ensure community discussions are positive and respectful.
    • Expectations here should come from leadership
      • LibreOffice did this in the past to great success.
    • Committers can vote against bugs but the tone of the discussion is important.
    • PMC will respond via the public mailing list within a week


May 26, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ


May 19, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Dani: Issues with the build infrastructure, might endanger M3, the team got a working build for testing
  • Dani: PowerPC hardware was donated so builds are starting again for it
  • Alex: CQ process might get simpler based on blog post from Wayne, Alex to test and validate with Wayne https://blogs.eclipse.org/post/wayne-beaton/revising-eclipse-ip-due-diligence-process-third-party-content
  • Lars: Question if we want to allow "EGit" commit style in Eclipse top-level project. Agreement was to allow it but not to recommend it or enforce it


May 12, 2020 - Tom, Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex

  • Update to themes
    • Preference being added for choosing square vs round tabs
    • Intern from Alex's team is taking up the work
    • Update to Windows theme to be Windows 10
  • Alex brings up changes to CQ requirements. Need to read up on Wayne's post about this and discuss in a future call if we can change how the project does CQs
  • Who is running dark theme?
    • Need someone to cover test of Dark Theme on Linux. Lars indicated that he runs with Linux Dark Theme and can help in coverage
    • Dani described the various members of his team that cover the rest of the platforms
  • Request to contribute to article on what is new in the release for a June newsletter. Lars to contribute improvements in the Dark theme. General request to others to contribute anything else.
  • ppc64le build troubles
    • Been having ongoing issues with the university hosted ppc64le machine we use to build support for ppc64le
    • Currently the ppc64le build has been disabled
    • Need to find alternatives
      • May be able to use something from IBM public cloud
      • Other suggestions: McQ - look towards using emulation, Alex - could do cross-compilation
    • Need to plan if ppc 10 will supported in the future


May 5, 2020 - Dani, Alex, Lars, McQ, Tom

  • M2 shipped on time
    • Dark theme rebuild for M2 due to severe issue
  • ICU4J removal note sent
    • Lars - 2 years notice period needed?
    • Agreement: it's needed as we expose it in API and still have usages in internals so we need time to clean up ourself
    • EPPs cleanup - some blocked by JDT still using it, some by WTP, Rust probably the first one to be icu4j clean
  • Roundes vs square ctabfolder
    • Number of themes to be reduced
    • Performance not being measurable
    • Agreement: add preference to switch the rounded vs
    • Agreement: when preference is available Square is default
  • Windows theme update -
    • Fix colors to match Windows 10
    • GTK looks way more sane as more effort has been invested to keep it current
    • Don't set colors but use the colors from the OS theme is the recipe
    • Ugly white line on windows dark theme needs bugzilla open


April 28, 2020 - Dani, Alex, Lars


April 21, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • Q: How do we deal with ICU removal from data binding?
    • Need to follow standard API removal rules
      • Deprecate old API and offer new API
      • Remove deprecated API after 2 years
    • Can we put the old stuff in a fragment that could be removed?
  • Theming: rounded tabs versus square tabs (bug 562221)
    • Should we offer it at all?
    • Alex: Don’t increase the number of themes or options
    • Lars: Square tabs are faster
    • If speed is significant, we should consider changing the default


April 14, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • Dani
    • M1 shipped, no problems so far
    • Using ECJ from M1 to build the SDK has some issues, there are people working on it
    • 4.16 plan to be published this week
  • Unanimous decision to continue to use Zoom as usual


April 7, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • Dani
    • Created 4.16 plan
    • Created release record for 4.16. Corresponding bug is bug 561643
    • Sent note to add planning bugs for 4.16
    • Please review and provide feedback if any
    • After some infrastructure issues we have a good test build and currently things look good for M1 this week
  • Alex seconded the infrastructure issues and missing test results
  • ICU4J (bug 560312): we decided to remove it piece by piece from projects where possible and where someone is interested to do it. The ICU bundle itself will stay, and we will follow the API removal process when we are ready to remove it, i.e. no usage in the SDK anymore


March 31, 2020 - Dani, Alex, McQ, Tom, Lars

  • Dani: Contacted the ICU4J owner. He updated bug 560312, PMC members will review the comment and we will discuss next week
  • Dani: Planning bugs are created slowly for 4.16. Will send a reminder to the list to submit more. Started to work on plan and release record.


March 24, 2020 - Alex, McQ, Tom

  • Dani: Regrets for the call (Eclipse Board call)
  • Alex: status updates
    • JDT merged Java 14 in master
    • Build instability due to infra status
  • Alex: OSGi R8 modules support - what is it?
    • Tom: ability to represent external content in the OSGi framework
    • Alex: Will it allow shipping eclipse plugins as JPMS modules to ease native library handling?
    • Tom: Haven't found any clear example how JPMS handles this, so good example is needed before could be looked further.


March 17, 2020 - Alex, McQ, Lars Tom, Dani

  • ICU4J use still under discussion
    • Dani still to contact ICU4J owner
  • Shipping Java 14 and 4.15 this week
  • Java 14 work will be merged to master on Wednesday


March 10, 2020 - Lars, Tom

  • Dani: Regrets for the call (vacation)
  • ICU4J use still under discussion
    • if we can be confident that performance and language support are of *similar* quality, we should work towards removing icu4j because it reduces complexity for us, in addition allowing for smaller RCP apps
    • note that we already have mixed usage -- some components using icu4j and some not
  • to clarify approvals that require a project lead can be done by a project lead for any of the Eclipse Project subprojects
    • as usual, the project lead should take care to understand the change and its implications before approving
  • we will move to Jetty 10 (and thus to Java 11) for the fall release
  • RH will be leading releng for 4.16


March 3, 2020 - no meeting


February 25, 2020 - Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex

  • Dani: Created and sent Endgame plan
  • Dani: Submitted IP Log: https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21716
  • Alex: SWT on Linux in 4.16 to require Gtk 3.20 to simplify CSS machinery and prep for GTK4
  • Alex: ICU4J removal
    • Dani: ICU4J reacts faster to changes and supports more features (new Japanese era)
    • Alex: It might but Eclipse fails at keeping up so current version shipped with Eclipse misses features that the JVM supports (latest CLDR)
    • Dani: Asks for a proof that JVM is better that ICU
    • Alex: Which metrics to be measured?
    • Dani: Will check with ICU guy about that and whether it's still needed


February 18, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom

  • Dani: need to work on IP Log, Release Review and Endgame Plan
  • Lars: ECF - will we update to the latest
    • Alex: is in the works. Scott needs to provide us with the update
  • Tom: Found an issue with JUnit 5 launching but not reproducible with latest I-build
    • Dani: File a bug if you have steps or contact Noopur directly
  • Dani: Update on X-builds and tags


February 11, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom

  • Alex: Infrastructure is very instable, how can be complain to the foundation?
    • Alex: Eclipse foundation server team not responding to complains and seem unclear about the source of the issue
    • Discussion about makes a stronger statement to the foundation about the bad state of the infrastructure
    • McQ: Suggestion to send a note as PMC to the foundation
    • Dani: First we should ask webmaster why this takes so long
    • Alex: Marketplace infrastructure is also in bad state

-> Alex to contact Denis and to cc the other PMC members

February 4, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Tom

  • OSGi Spec talk
    • OSGi R8 Core will be done this year.
    • May be ready for 4.16, but no rush if it slips to 4.17
    • Will not put anything in master until spec is final which makes it more likely to be 4.17


January 28, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars

  • Ongoing saga of the EPP packages
    • Markus did it last week
    • PMC discussed possible futures here, but no conclusions
    • Discussion also happening at the board level
  • M2 is this week
  • Pushing for JUnit updates for M2


January 21, 2020 - Dani, Tom, Lars

  • Dani: EPP builds still missing, Dani contacted Markus Knauer to update EPP for M1, release train is at risk if nobody steps up
  • New test failures are investigated, action plan is to restart the test, if they still fails restart the machine and if the tests still fail, see if a revert fixes the test


January 14, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom

  • Dani: Switch to SUSE Enterprise 15, team is in favor to drop 12
  • Dani: Plan updated to remove Windows 7
  • Alex: Felix Dependencies for SCR done
    • confirm fix for bug 544571
    • releng disruptions during update, but recovered. More disruptions expected as we update dependencies for March release.
    • broken builds, need to get a list of issues. Seems to be more infrastructure issues. Need to report back to the foundation. Example, the signing issue that broken the respin.
  • Some discussion about gitlab option at foundation. bug 537913
    • What happens to gerrit work flow for review?
    • Would dropping bugzilla happen or can we migrate all issues?
    • Without migration it is a no-go for us
    • Currently no plans to move Eclipse project to gitlab at this time.


January 7, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars

  • Dani: Created initial 4.15 plan - please have a look
  • Dani: Created release record for 4.15
  • Dani: Sent a note to teams to create their 4.15 plan items/bugs
  • Dani: Do we want to drop support for Windows 7 (remove from Target Environments only)
    • Unanimous decision: Yes
  • Dani: Discuss (again, see below) resolution for stale bugs
    • We want to ask the webmaster that stale bugs are directly closed. ACTION ITEM for Lars
    • We will only auto/mass close existing stale bugs with notification turned off
  • Change rules about x-internal exports (bug 553709)
    • Decision:
    • - Newly added internal packages should not use x-internal exports unless there are very good reasons
    • - For existing packages the x-internal export can be removed with PMC approval

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