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= Documents =
 
= Documents =
 
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
  
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= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
'''October 16, 2013''' - John, Dani, Andrew, Martin
+
'''May 12, 2021''' - McQ, Tom
* Dani: '''Good progress on Java 8''' - {{bug|380190}} compiler work done - going to send something
+
* Meeting cut short
* Martin: {{bug|402509}} Context Menu Filtering : Paul set to 4.4 for discussion as part of UI review; Martin still interested, could help with some resources (testing, or even implementation when architectural guidance is given)
+
* Need to find a new time for PMC call
* '''IDE Working Group''' ([[IDE_Working_Group_Proposal]])
+
** regular conflicts for planning council and board meetings
** John: from PMC point of view, a good thing: sponsored contributors would be just like another group of contributors
+
 
** Some companies prefer making code contributions but for other companies this is very impractical and might work better with a [http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130603225716/leagueoflegends/images/6/66/Iffem_shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg shut up and take my money] model.
+
 
* Andrew: '''Krzystof Daniel for commit rights on p2'''
+
'''April 28, 2021''' - Tom, Alex
** It appears to be resolved already but we hope it doesn't have to come to this in the future.
+
* Mac M1 changes are in to move to aarch64
** Recent studies show that timely responses within 1 day (even "we'll respond in a month") will dramatically increase engagement
+
* Discussed progress on Jar signing issue for Java 16
 +
** Progress being made but will require some change in behavior of the Equinox SignedContent API
 +
** Will result in deprecation of at least one method
 +
** Working towards M3 solution.
 +
* Discussed move to PGP verification as alternative to signed JAR verification to p2
 +
** Progress being made there, hopefully get something for M3
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Mar 31, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars
 +
* Java 16 jar signing issue
 +
** Tom wants to replace equinox implementation with builtin Jar file implementation so changes don't have to be done in Equinox on each release
 +
* JSP/Jetty story in IDE
 +
** Do we still need same functionality?
 +
** Alex - get out of the business for help system. Dependencies (jetty, lucene) generate more releng work than we can handle.
 +
** McQ - url for plugin help would be simplest and open it in browser
 +
** Any change (e.g. JSP removal) has to go through standard deprecation period, announcements and etc.
 +
** Alex to initiate communication on longer term plan with Holger who works on improvements to help system lately
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Mar 31, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex
 +
 
 +
* PMC call time
 +
** Overlaps with Planning council call and both Tom and Alex can't make both
 +
-> Decision: Skip PMC call every first Wed of the month
 +
 
 +
* Webpage Hugo migration
 +
** Recommended by Eclipse Foundation and active contributor to do the conversion
 +
** Concerns about mixing old and new content are raised but they don't look severe
 +
** Supported by PMC
 +
-> Tom to handle initial communication on behalf of PMC
 +
 
 +
* Planning process relevance
 +
** the planning process is not providing the detailed and usable plans from the past
 +
** not a pain point as fewer people participate it but looks like useless exercise quite often
 +
** to be discussed....
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Mar 24, 2021''' - Tom, Alex, Lars
 +
 
 +
* Pack 200 - API removal in 2 years - 2023-06
 +
** Should we turn off all pack 200 features in one year, make it consistent across all Java versions.
 +
** 2022-06 - disable pack200 for all Java versions. Calling the deprecated API will be a no-op
 +
 
 +
* Pack 200 - When can we stop generating? Agreed on 2021-09 release.  We should set the precedence as early as possible to stop producing pack200 artifacts.
 +
 
 +
* split packages
 +
** Causing issues with mandatory directive and p2 {{bug|360659}} and with tycho.
 +
** Currently tycho requires some work arounds for usage of split packages
 +
** Can we work to get rid of split packages. We agreed to investigate the work and move to combine split packages if possible.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Mar 17, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars
 +
* SWT Chromium support
 +
** Still no recent version of Chromium with security patches
 +
** Will be dropped in M1 (if no recent version is provided in the next weeks or if no one steps up)
 +
 
 +
* Pack 2000 support
 +
** not supported anymore as of Java 14
 +
** will be deprecated and marked for removal
 +
 
 +
* Moving Eclipse repos to Github
 +
** Moving to Github might simplify and therefore increase contributions
 +
** Huge amount of work in releng
 +
** Potentially we should all subprojects at the same time
 +
** We check if the foundation plans to move everything to Gitlab
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Mar 10, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex
 +
* Moving to Jetty 10 for next release
 +
* platform-dev discussion about move to GitHub
 +
** conversation is useful, but would take a lot of planning
 +
** lots of current rel eng dependencies on Gerrit
 +
*** need more community help for rel eng issues
 +
** a massive amount of history in our Bugzilla
 +
* release record and proto-plan created for 4.20
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Febr 17, 2021''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* Looks good for 4.19 release
 +
* Mac ARM has to wait for the 4.20 release, as the team fights multiple issues
 +
* Top-level project page can currently only be edited by Tom, other PMC members also have access to it https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/eclipse/who
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Dec 15, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* 06. January 2021 is the next meeting
 +
* How can PMC increase the awareness of the project leads / committers?
 +
** Maybe invite the project leads once per month to the PMC meeting?
 +
** Discussion how we can increase the JDT community
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Dec 01, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* RC1 is out; final touches on RC2
 +
* How can we remove the confusion about "e4" project?
 +
** e4 has always been intended to be a sandbox project where people could try things that are experimental or are on a longer timeline
 +
** Should be renamed to make it clear this isn't about leftovers from the Eclipse 4.0 work (maybe "eNext"?)
 +
** Should clean up repos
 +
*** Remove repos that just hold code that has already moved to the platform
 +
*** Remove repos that are no longer getting any investment
 +
*** Work toward moving things that are active/useful into the platform (e.g. "spies" to PDE)
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 24, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* PMC is considering the potential of an SDK / IDE working group at the foundation
 +
 
 +
* Discussion Do we need the extra releng work to create p2 repositories for milestones?
 +
** Lot of extra work and sometimes goes wrong
 +
** All I-Builds are anyway available
 +
 
 +
-> PMC decided to drop the additional p2 repository
 +
-> Alex will be sending out an email about it to inform potential users of the special p2 repos
 +
 
 +
** Discussion about the purpose of the milestone week at all
 +
-> Decision not to change the process for now, as the additional testing and focus has also some benefits
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 17, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Release 4.18 winding down
 +
** SWT churn for Linux and Mac Big Sur
 +
** Does not appear the Foundation got the new Mac Hardware for testing
 +
* Planning Council discussion
 +
** Dani filled the Eclipse TLP representation role on the Council
 +
** Alex can take the lead to that role
 +
** Alex will look to find a replacement for the tools TLP representative
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 10, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Still dealing with the loss of Dani
 +
* Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
 +
* Stabilizing for M3
 +
* Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
 +
* Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 10, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Still dealing with the loss of Dani
 +
* Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
 +
* Stabilizing for M3
 +
* Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
 +
* Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 3, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Dani!
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Oct 27, 2020''' - Lars, Tom
 +
* Nothing to discuss
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Oct 20, 2020''' - Lars, Tom, McQ, Alex
 +
* EclipseCon is running virtual this week
 +
* Agreement that removal of API should only before M1 release
 +
* Proof of concept for using Java 11 http client instead of ECF should be done
 +
* if we remove ECF we should send out an announcement and keep it for at least one release
 +
* Decision to start using the @Deprecated(since = "x.y.z", forRemoval = true) for planned API removals if the bundle can use Java 11, wiki for API removal should be updated
 +
 
 +
'''Oct 6, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, McQ, Alex
 +
* M1 under control
 +
* Release train materials being worked
 +
* Moved to Jetty 9.4.32
 +
* ECF — need to simplify how we consume http client
 +
** could use Java11 http client instead, but this would require significant development effort
 +
** Tom/Alex to take an initial stab at understanding scope + open bugs
 +
* Proposal: remove API once a year
 +
** Given the already long time for consumers to respond to API deprecation, PMC decision was to continue to allow API removal in any release. It was felt that the incremental benefit was outweighed by the need to be able to move forward quickly.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Sep 15, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, Lars, Alex
 +
* M1
 +
** Next week M1 - Alex to send reminder note
 +
** Holiday in India on this Friday
 +
 
 +
* Y-Build for Java 16
 +
** Builds should be fixed and can continue to progress on Java 16
 +
 
 +
* SCR upgrade
 +
** Some issues with EBR maven plugin
 +
** causes versions to be incorrectly represented in p2 meta-data
 +
** Orbit needs a new lead, will end up impacting us if no replacement found
 +
 
 +
* Tycho being updated to be able to OSGi-fy JARs if they are not there yet.
 +
** How to use this for a feature?
 +
** Behaves much like Orbit to produce new versions of the artifact.
 +
** Could be the solution for Orbit needs.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Sep 22, 2020''' - no meeting
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Sep 15, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Lars, Tom, Alex
 +
* Dani: Java 15 released today
 +
** 4.17 release together with Marketplace for Java 15 support are ready
 +
** JDT Java 15 to be merged this week
 +
* Dani: Zoom call with password unless each of the PMC members can be added as meeting owner so can start the meeting
 +
* Alex: 4.18 stream opened and releng work calmed down
 +
* Lars: Cleanup of migration guides
 +
** Dani: this will break existing links, so existing content have to stay unless someone does all the work to fix our plans and other links that will break
 +
** McQ: help system needs work to focus on the latest stuff/release, what should we do to achieve it? How can we better shape the help system now that having all content ofline is not a requirement?
 +
** Alex: do not ship migration, n&n,etc. but rather point to website url from help system
 +
** Alex: this would also reduce manual work for releng (+1 by Dani)
 +
** ACTION ITEM: Alex to work on n&n in help system to use the website content directly as a proof of concept for further work
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Sep 01, 2020''' - Lars, Alex
 +
* RC1 is fine, no additional requests for RC2
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''August 25, 2020''' - Tom, Lars, Alex, Dani
 +
* Dani: sent out Endgame plan, RC1 this week, vacation starting on Friday
 +
* Alex informed about Red Hat's Releng participation
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''August 18, 2020''' - Tom, Lars, Dani
 +
* Dani to create and send out Endgame plan
 +
* Looking into Mac Big Sur launching issue ({{bug|565913}})
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''August 11, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, Tom, McQ
 +
* Eclipse Foundation is getting access to an Apple Silicon dev kit
 +
** Will make it available to SWT devs via cloud connectivity
 +
* M3 next week; RC1 following week
 +
* ARM64 port seems to be working fine, except for browser widget (still investigating)
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''August 4, 2020''' - Alex, Lars, Dani
 +
* no topics to discuss
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''July 28, 2020''' - Tom, McQ
 +
* no topics to discuss
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''July 21, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars
 +
* no topics to discuss
 +
* Alex on vacation next week
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''July 14, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars
 +
* Project status
 +
** M1 shipped last week
 +
** Draft Plan for 4.17 posted - additional fixes done after review
 +
** Release record created for 4.17
 +
* CQ process discussion - new clearly defined process
 +
** Note sent to Wayne to get clarifications on handbook, Wayne has made some edits in response.  We need to review latest handbook
 +
** Should simplify IP clearance for third party libraries
 +
*** If a bundle is approved by clearly defined it can be added with no CQ as long as the mavin URLs/coordinates are vetted by clearly defined
 +
*** Orbit should soon automate the linking to clearly defined approvals for bundles added.  Currently a work in progress by Roland at Orbit.
 +
*** The ratings system at clearly defined is not used.  Only the license check is used.
 +
** PMC needs to review latest handbook on the topic ... As of now we should move forward with the new process
 +
*** If concerns arise later we will need to take actions to correct
 +
* {{bug|565066}} - Needs some attention to the solution and testing
 +
** attempt to make incremental installation be consistent with resolution of a fresh install (or -clean).
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''June 23, 2020''' - no call
 +
 
 +
'''June 16, 2020''' - no call
 +
 
 +
'''June 9, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom
 +
* McQ: message to guide the community got no public reactions so far
 +
* Dani: bug reports needed for JDT, do we have PMC agreement?
 +
** Alex: For me that was approved after jdt-dev vote ended
 +
** AGREED
 +
* Dani: RC2 done, no major bug so far but still monitoriing for regressions
 +
* Alex: 4.17 stream open, not finished until 4.16 if final so all apichecks and etc. are in proper shape
 +
* Tom: OSGi R8 merge after stabilizing 4.17 stream
 +
* Tom: OSGi Move to Java 8 right after that
 +
* Dani: Switch to Java 11 as min version as it was already announced to happen in 4.17 stream shortly
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''June 2, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom
 +
* Inactive committer clean up for Eclipse project for the 4.16 release started via {{bug|563720}}
 +
* Infrastructure is really slow for RC2 release
 +
* RC2 bug queue is really low, one restart issue which is currently under investigated by Tom
 +
* Discussion about the JDT cleanup e-mails
 +
** Need to ensure community discussions are positive and respectful.
 +
** Expectations here should come from leadership
 +
*** LibreOffice did this in the past to great success.
 +
** Committers can vote against bugs but the tone of the discussion is important.
 +
** PMC will respond via the public mailing list within a week
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''May 26, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ
 +
* Closed all M3 bugs; RC1 looking good
 +
* Tips&tricks, new&noteworthy, contributions to the newsletter in progress
 +
* Chromium integration CQ approved -- https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21808
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''May 19, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex
 +
* Dani: Issues with the build infrastructure, might endanger M3, the team got a working build for testing
 +
* Dani: PowerPC hardware was donated so builds are starting again for it
 +
* Alex: CQ process might get simpler based on blog post from Wayne, Alex to test and validate with Wayne https://blogs.eclipse.org/post/wayne-beaton/revising-eclipse-ip-due-diligence-process-third-party-content
 +
* Lars: Question if we want to allow "EGit" commit style in Eclipse top-level project. Agreement was to allow it but not to recommend it or enforce it
 +
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''May 12, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex
'''October 9, 2013''' - John, Dani, Andrew, Martin
+
* Update to themes
* John: '''Builds''' - looks like things are under control
+
** Preference being added for choosing square vs round tabs
* John: '''Help System Security Bug''' - {{bug|418443}} only when help server is run on https, thus not an issue when run locally
+
** Intern from Alex's team is taking up the work
 +
** Update to Windows theme to be Windows 10
 +
* Alex brings up changes to CQ requirements.  Need to read up on Wayne's post about this and discuss in a future call if we can change how the project does CQs
 +
* Who is running dark theme?
 +
** Need someone to cover test of Dark Theme on Linux.  Lars indicated that he runs with Linux Dark Theme and can help in coverage
 +
** Dani described the various members of his team that cover the rest of the platforms
 +
* Request to contribute to article on what is new in the release for a June newsletter.  Lars to contribute improvements in the Dark theme.  General request to others to contribute anything else.
 +
* ppc64le build troubles
 +
** Been having ongoing issues with the university hosted ppc64le machine we use to build support for ppc64le
 +
** Currently the ppc64le build has been disabled
 +
** Need to find alternatives
 +
*** May be able to use something from IBM public cloud
 +
*** Other suggestions: McQ - look towards using emulation, Alex - could do cross-compilation
 +
** Need to plan if ppc 10 will supported in the future
  
<hr/>
 
'''October 2, 2013''' - McQ, John, Dani
 
* no discussion topics
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''May 5, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, Lars, McQ, Tom
'''September 25, 2013''' - McQ, Andrew, Martin, John
+
* Andrew: '''Commercial Support Thread''' - Directory of consultants to effect change when needed
+
** Foundation to employ developers to "do whatever is best for the Platform" : Who decides on features, and where does the funding come from ?
+
** There is precedent of Foundations employing developers... but don't think that "developers for hire" model could work
+
  
* Martin: '''ide-dev''' discussion
+
* M2 shipped on time
** A Platform team tries to come up with features and architecture that they think is valuable...
+
** Dark theme rebuild for M2 due to severe issue
** but there's not the same drive towards a product / UX that a commercial product has
+
* ICU4J removal note sent
** Because of the nature how we do things, it's harder to get to a polished UX
+
** Lars - 2 years notice period needed?
 +
** Agreement: it's needed as we expose it in API and still have usages in internals so we need time to clean up ourself
 +
** EPPs cleanup - some blocked by JDT still using it, some by WTP, Rust probably the first one to be icu4j clean
 +
* Roundes vs square ctabfolder
 +
** Number of themes to be reduced
 +
** Performance not being measurable
 +
** Agreement: add preference to switch the rounded vs
 +
** Agreement: when preference is available Square is default
 +
* Windows theme update -
 +
** Fix colors to match Windows 10
 +
** GTK looks way more sane as more effort has been invested to keep it current
 +
** Don't set colors but use the colors from the OS theme is the recipe
 +
** Ugly white line on windows dark theme needs bugzilla open
  
<hr/>
 
'''September 18, 2013''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
 
* Mozilla: Orion vs CodeMirror as Editor - Speed of progressing on Editor features, Community size ?
 
** CodeMirror addons can't be absorbed at Orion (licenses, provenance, etc.)
 
** Can we prove that the Orion editor is better ?
 
** What matters is our amount of commitment to "Development in the Cloud"
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''April 28, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, Lars
'''September 11, 2013''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
* John: '''RC4''' navigaton history fix ({{bug|416902}}) - review
+
* McQ: Focusing Ottawa on Orion
+
* Martin: '''[[E4/Scripting]]''' progress. Homepage has links onto Requirements, EclipseCon Europe talk and more
+
** McQ: Overlap with RAP when JavaScript is being used ?
+
* John: Krzystof Daniel of Red Hat for committer / component lead
+
  
<hr/>
+
* PMC decided that the OS specific themes should be removed, https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=562227
'''September 4, 2013''' - No meeting
+
* Windows light theme should become better https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=551462
 +
* Dani - This week is M2, no special freeze or testing but we will contribute our build from Friday to the simrel
 +
* Databinding analyis was done by Jens Lindstroem and it looks good for an API compliant solution
 +
* Alex will prepare the information for cross that we will drop ibm icu from the SDK build
  
'''August 28, 2013''' - Dani, John, Martin
 
* Dani: '''Stardust adding features to SR1''' - Planning Council exception - no objections
 
* John: '''language tooling on [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ide-dev/ ide-dev]''' - where to host the work ?
 
** Eclipse project/e4 proposed
 
** Dani: '''What's the goal?''' - make it easier adding new languages, or refactor existing projects ?
 
*** Martin interested in cross-language crossreferencing
 
**** Lua tooling / C bindings, Java/JNI, Python C bindings, TCF, CORBA generated stubs/proxies, ...
 
*** Easier to create tooling for JVM-based languages
 
*** Common support for refactoring
 
*** ...
 
** AC could be involved - makes sense for AC to be involved in a working group
 
*** In the end, it boils down to who steps up writing code
 
* Martin: short update on scripting-dev ... making progress, code has been provided, e4 proposed as a home, no feedback yet
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''April 21, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars
'''August 21, 2013''' - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin
+
* Q: How do we deal with ICU removal from data binding?
* Dani: '''Still need the links to the torrents?''' Can we measure usage of torrents ? "Eclipse SDK" traffic is low these days anyways, would make sense for EPP only if ever
+
** Need to follow standard API removal rules
* Martin: Some traffic these days on the [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-scripting-dev/ eclipse-scripting-dev] mailing list
+
*** Deprecate old API and offer new API
** John: Some UI would likely be simpler with e4 now ...
+
*** Remove deprecated API after 2 years
** e4 would be a possible initial place for the project (incubator), initial basic hooks could even be put into the Platform
+
** Can we put the old stuff in a fragment that could be removed?
* Luna M1 went pretty well
+
* Theming: rounded tabs versus square tabs ({{bug|562221}})
 +
** Should we offer it at all?
 +
** Alex: Don’t increase the number of themes or options
 +
** Lars: Square tabs are faster
 +
** If speed is significant, we should consider changing the default
  
<hr/>
 
'''August 14, 2013''' - Dani, Andrew
 
* Dani: no changes to release pace for Luna. For details see [[Planning_Council/August_7_2013]]
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''April 14, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars
'''August 7, 2013''' - Dani, Andrew, Martin, McQ
+
* Dani
* Dani - '''Moving to more frequent releases''' to be discussed at the PC today
+
** M1 shipped, no problems so far
** McQ believes that aggregating monthly releases into a train can't work given the size of the train, so the monthly release wouldn't be useful to anyone
+
** Using ECJ from M1 to build the SDK has some issues, there are people working on it
** Martin agrees that as a commercial adopter, stability (of the yearly train) is key: new features are interesting in one or two projects but not in the train
+
** 4.16 plan to be published this week
** Moving faster with the train can't be at the expense of no longer getting backports of bugfixes to those releases that I have chosen to adopt !
+
* Unanimous decision to continue to use Zoom as usual
** McQ: No more SR releases, but only converge the development streams every 4 months ? - Backports could be made but adopters would have to build themselves.
+
* What causes most grief when adopting a new Platform version ?
+
** Notifications have proven most problematic .. on either Resource / project system or XML / EMF models: subtle change of behavior can have a big impact when notifications trigger other notifications
+
*** Can it be fixed with a community effort ? [Not sure, most problems are in layers on top of the platform...]
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''July 31, 2013''' - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin
 
* ide-dev list : "Eclipse as an IDE" from a cross project / cross PMC point of view
 
** Tools + Equinox + Packages ...
 
* The "Uber Package..."
 
** Not recommendable. Better to improve Marketplace ... not all Train projects are on the Marketplace.
 
** Dani: As per the downloads page, it looks like the standard package doesn't have marketplace client ? - Martin: might be filtered; might be worth a bug if not visible.
 
*** filed {{bug|414305}}
 
* Looking forward to discussions on ide-dev.
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''April 7, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars
'''July 24, 2013''' - McQ, Dani, John
+
* Dani
* Brief planning discussion. Kepler SR1 end-game plan released. Luna M1 is August 9th.  
+
** Created [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_16.xml 4.16 plan]
* We will resume architecture team meetings on August 7th. John to remind team next week.
+
** Created [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=561643 release record for 4.16]. Corresponding bug is {{bug|561643}}
* John will be away Aug 1-16
+
** Sent note to add planning bugs for 4.16
 +
** '''Please review and provide feedback if any'''
 +
** After some infrastructure issues we have a good test build and currently things look good for M1 this week
 +
* Alex seconded the infrastructure issues and missing test results
 +
* ICU4J ({{bug|560312}}): we decided to remove it piece by piece from projects where possible and where someone is interested to do it. The ICU bundle itself will stay, and we will follow the API removal process when we are ready to remove it, i.e. no usage in the SDK anymore
  
'''July 17, 2013''' - McQ, Dani, John, Andrew
 
* Brief discussion of the "code smells" thread on cross-project list
 
* Overall positive discussion and we hope to see good things come out of it
 
  
'''June 26, 2013''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew, John
+
'''March 31, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, McQ, Tom, Lars
* Andrew: '''Orion Browser API Standardization'''
+
* Dani: Contacted the ICU4J owner. He updated {{bug|560312}}, PMC members will review the comment and we will discuss next week
* John: '''More process around Kepler Maintenance Stream''' - 1 reviewer, similar to RC1 ?
+
* Dani: Planning bugs are created slowly for 4.16. Will send a reminder to the list to submit more. Started to work on plan and release record.
  
<hr/>
 
'''June 19, 2013''' - John, Dani, Martin
 
* John/Dani: '''Kepler Retrospect'''
 
** JDT Versioning: Bundles and features at 3.10 for Luna, Marketing version at 4.4
 
** Freeze Plan: Worked fine for Platform, but others on the Train didn't quite play by the rules
 
*** Dani to replace John on the Planning Council (phone meeting once per month)
 
* '''Rules of Engagement for Maintenance Releases'''
 
** JDT is in the middle of a release cycle, since doing Java 8
 
* {{Bug|411132}} '''Security Advisory''' regarding raw Javadoc - Eclipse help system not vulnerable, suggest improving the docs around "Help" setting to disallow opening external links
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 24, 2020''' - Alex, McQ, Tom
'''June 12, 2013''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani, Andrew
+
* Dani: Regrets for the call (Eclipse Board call)
* John: '''EclipseCon France Report''' - 2 day board meeting was good: strategic planning for what the Foundation should focus on
+
* Alex: status updates
* Dani: 4.3 ramp-down looks good ... but other projects on the release train ship significant changes late ?!?
+
** JDT merged Java 14 in master
* Dani: Java 8 looking good
+
** Build instability due to infra status
* John: Planning - e4 vs compatibility layer
+
* Alex: OSGi R8 modules support - what is it?
** McQ: Because we want e4 to be a complete Platform, it makes sense to look at our own editors and see what it takes to have them run on pure e4
+
** Tom: ability to represent external content in the OSGi framework
** But that's on a case-by-case basis only
+
** Alex: Will it allow shipping eclipse plugins as JPMS modules to ease native library handling?
** There's still a lot of confusion around e4
+
** Tom: Haven't found any clear example how JPMS handles this, so good example is needed before could be looked further.
  
<hr/>
 
'''May 29, 2013''' - Dani, Andrew, Martin
 
* Dani: '''4.3 Release Update''' - looking good, some minor doc fixes only for RC4.
 
* Martin: '''4.3 Standard Package''' with egit and mpc - also looking good.
 
** Minor binary diffs traced down to an "encoding" flag in the JAR format which is not significant (see {{bug|408944}})
 
** Automated comparison of SDK against EPP are still possible when unzipping all Jar's and comparing the contents (actually listing contents with unzip -v is also fine)
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 17, 2020''' - Alex, McQ, Lars Tom, Dani
'''May 22, 2013''' - Dani, Martin, John, McQ
+
* ICU4J use still under discussion
* John: '''4.3 Update''' - still 100 bugs open with 4.3 target milestone, need a reminder
+
** Dani still to contact ICU4J owner
** There's still some [[Platform_UI/Plan/4.3 | Platform/UI 4.3 Backlog]] - some keybindings, activation, about dlg; need to make some decisions what's in or what's out
+
* Shipping Java 14 and 4.15 this week
** Don't work on the list until the last day ... for any 2 bugs fixed, there's probably 1 introduced so need to ramp down
+
* Java 14 work will be merged to master on Wednesday
** Release review: Docs, N&N looking good
+
* Google Android announcement - IntelliJ is well integrated and polished, but Eclipse has more plugins ... the 2 concepts are somewhat at odds
+
** Just one in the large ecosystem - but need to watch for a trend of others moving away
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''May 15, 2013''' - Dani, Martin, John, McQ
 
* John: Switching focus from Orion to Eclipse Platform for the endgame - will be away first week of June
 
* Mike Milinkovich did a demo on Orion in the Zurich lab and at the Eclipse Stammtisch Zurich
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 10, 2020''' - Lars, Tom
'''May 8, 2013''' - Dani, Martin, John, Andrew, McQ
+
* Dani: Regrets for the call (vacation)
* Dani: {{bug|403149}} '''Removing Tycho Dependency''' - AI John comment on the bug
+
* ICU4J use still under discussion
** Martin would like to see a simple Doc page somewhere that explains how to fix the versions
+
** if we can be confident that performance and language support are of *similar* quality, we should work towards removing icu4j because it reduces complexity for us, in addition allowing for smaller RCP apps
** Dani thinks that any serious build would update pom versions automatically as part of the build
+
** note that we already have mixed usage -- some components using icu4j and some not
* Martin: {{bug|402509}} context menu filtering - request gentle nudge
+
* to clarify approvals that require a project lead can be done by a project lead for any of the Eclipse Project subprojects
* John: Will '''switch to Asterisk''' for the PMC from next week on - '''AI McQ''' update the invite
+
** as usual, the project lead should take care to understand the change and its implications before approving
 +
* we will move to Jetty 10 (and thus to Java 11) for the fall release
 +
* RH will be leading releng for 4.16
  
<hr/>
 
'''May 1, 2013''' - John, Dani, Andrew, McQ
 
* John: LTS now running IBM Juno maintenance builds in LTS forge. Some small details still being worked out.
 
* Dani: Gerrit can be configured to deny non-fast-forward merges. We agreed to request that all Eclipse project Gerrit repositories be configured in this way. See {{bug|402791}} for details.
 
* Dani: Request for JUnit bundle to stop re-exporting Hamcrest bundle. Hamcrest was originally part of JUnit so this was done for compatibility reasons. We agreed that we will not do this because it breaks all users of JUnit bundle. See {{bug|403676}} for details.
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 3, 2020''' - no meeting
'''April 24, 2013''' - John, Dani, Martin
+
* Dani: '''Upload Freeze Plan'''
+
* Dani: '''Java 8 Update'''
+
* John: '''Pawel stepping down as Platform/Debug Lead'''
+
** Leaves Pin & Clone orphaned for next year. Working sets for expression view also not in Kepler.
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''April 17, 2013''' - John, Dani, Martin
 
* Martin: '''New Classic Package''' - Will commit SDK branding, and Egit Capability def
 
** CSS - Should inherit proper styling from Platform (most probably OK)
 
* John: '''API Baselines''' - remind teams to set API baselines
 
* Martin: {{bug|402509}} context menu filtering - request gentle nudge
 
* John: [[Platform_UI/Plan/4.3 |Triage of Platform UI issues to be addressed]]
 
  
 +
'''February 25, 2020''' - Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex
 +
* Dani: Created and sent Endgame plan
 +
* Dani: Submitted IP Log: https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21716
 +
* Alex: SWT on Linux in 4.16 to require Gtk 3.20 to simplify CSS machinery and prep for GTK4
 +
* Alex: ICU4J removal
 +
** Dani: ICU4J reacts faster to changes and supports more features (new Japanese era)
 +
** Alex: It might but Eclipse fails at keeping up so current version shipped with Eclipse misses features that the JVM supports (latest CLDR)
 +
** Dani: Asks for a proof that JVM is better that ICU
 +
** Alex: Which metrics to be measured?
 +
** Dani: Will check with ICU guy about that and whether it's still needed
  
<hr/>
 
'''April 3, 2013''' - McQ, Dani, John, Andrew
 
* John: Kepler draft plan update ready, please take a look and provide comments
 
* We discussed EclipseCon. It was a very good event for Eclipse project. On desktop community is moving forward on Eclipse 4. There was lots of good feedback, and very little grumbling. Orion was very well represented, lots of talks and demos from several companies adopting it.
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''February 18, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom
'''March 20, 2013''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
* Dani: need to work on IP Log, Release Review and Endgame Plan
* Dani: '''Java 8''' - jdt.core making very good progress - almost everything compiles in the editor
+
* Lars: ECF - will we update to the latest
* Dani: '''pom files update''' - to be discussed in the arch call
+
** Alex: is in the works. Scott needs to provide us with the update
* Martin: {{bug|402509}} '''Context Menus''' - no feedback, ping again
+
* Tom: Found an issue with JUnit 5 launching but not reproducible with latest I-build
* Martin: {{bug|145635}} '''Pin & Clone'''
+
** Dani: File a bug if you have steps or contact Noopur directly
** Dani - the feature itself is good and makes sense, would also like it in JDT
+
* Dani: Update on X-builds and tags
** '''The UI metaphor is new and would need some testing in the Field''' - McQ would like the patch in ASAP in a way that doesn't cause more swirl to start experimenting
+
** CDT would need to adopt it, upstream changes needed
+
** Current implementation showed quite a lot of ripples and bugs
+
*** Current impl breaks existing workflows, that's the big problem
+
** John: only 1 milestone left, if it appears in M7 and breaks any adopters they have little time to react;
+
*** Can loop-in JDT and CDT, but there might be others ...
+
*** Was PTP involved in any way ? They could also be broken, they have very special requirements
+
** McQ: Do we have ownership of this work ? - If we have a clear need and a clear owner working on it we could give it a try
+
** '''AI Martin''' (1) Clarify with CDT why they didn't like the feature and what are their plans; all the rest comes after that eg PTP, Pawel, can it be done in a non-breaking way
+
* John: {{bug|402912}} '''Significant Memory Leak in M6''' fixed this week: noticable if eclipse running for a long time
+
** Workaround for M6: Turn off Workbench Autosave feature by setting it to 0
+
** ''AI Post to cross-project'' - people doing demos at Eclipsecon might want to use the workaround
+
* Martin: {{bug|397896}} '''New Classic Package''' - initial package done but unusable while the SDK branding bundle's contents is not migrated
+
** Martin will continue pushing for this to happen - fallback would be not
+
** Not much risk in judging whether it's good or not, only binary diff needed
+
* John: {{bug|380325}} '''Java 7 filesystem fragment'''
+
** McQ do we know performance implications, could we get rid of the native bundles ?
+
** Martin would like to have the fragment in all builds, to make it easier to test performance etc implications
+
* Martin: {{bug|403589}} '''eclipse.inf'''
+
** Different binary bits depending on distribution channel is bad ... Tycho removed
+
** Defect in post-processing (why does it add eclipse.inf) or defect in bundle preparation (why isn't eclipse.inf in there) ?
+
** Maybe related to pack200 conditioning - Martin thinks that eclipse.inf was used in the past as a marker to know whether pack200 conditioning has happened ... now downstream aggregator conditions and adds eclipse.inf
+
** '''AI John investigate'''
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''March 13, 2013''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani
 
* Andrew: '''{{bug|397896}} final throughts on the EPP package'''
 
** Move forward with [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=397896#c17 ]
 
** Testing - could find someone if it's just "use during the test pass"
 
** Q: Can the EPP build be done frequently so it's available 1 week before the milestone for testing ?
 
* Martin: '''{{bug|402509}} context menu filtering'''
 
** Would like to get some advice from Platform on the approach; some trajectory of a solution moving forward
 
** Not a must-have for Kepler, but would like to see where this is heading
 
** '''AI McQ''' find Platform folk to discuss this
 
* John: '''Eclipse 4 API Status'''
 
** Publishing a "usable subset" of the former provisional API as final: model, core services; consume injection
 
** Allows building a real Eclipse 4 App now on API
 
*** Mostly clean-up, documentation; removing some bad stuff
 
*** Writing an App on Kepler E4 API might actually be able to run on Juno
 
** Some of the advanced stuff remains provisional for now, eg define injection
 
* John: '''Plan Update''' - No permission to update in the PMI
 
* McQ: '''CBI''' / Bad Launcher
 
** Have an idea that doing some little extra work after the CBI build might be good enough for now
 
** HP-UX CBI Build doesn't start out of the box (will likely stay a known issue for M6)
 
* Martin: '''{{bug|380325}} Java7 EFS Plugin''': Build ?
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''February 11, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom
'''March 6, 2013''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew
+
* Alex: Infrastructure is very instable, how can be complain to the foundation?
* Martin: '''{{bug|402509}} context menu filtering'''
+
** Alex: Eclipse foundation server team not responding to complains and seem unclear about the source of the issue
** AI Martin ask engineers document what we're doing today
+
** Discussion about makes a stronger statement to the foundation about the bad state of the infrastructure
* Martin: '''{{bug|397896}} EPP vs Classic''' - how to proceed
+
** McQ: Suggestion to send a note as PMC to the foundation
** Martin's recent findings on Marketplace
+
** Dani: First we should ask webmaster why this takes so long
*** There's p2, Marketplace, Packages in the Open but they are only parts of the solution
+
** Alex: Marketplace infrastructure is also in bad state
*** There's commercial installers from EclipseSource (Yoxos), Genuitec, IBM
+
*** Dead marketplace entries are not getting removed https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=550713
*** John: p2 simplified UI (eg Webtools Server Adaptors; Mylyn)
+
*** No clean contact person from the foundation
** What's missing ? David too booked ?
+
*** Marketplace is also not Open Source hence we cannot fix thing ourself.
* John: '''CBI Builds in Kepler''' - SDK in good shape but repo and Equinox downloadpage not quite right yet, some might take until M6
+
* John: '''Delete old Platform/UI Branches''' - any PMC Policy ? No, convert branches to tags
+
* John: '''API Freeze next week''' - some (modest) new Eclipse 4 API's
+
** McQ recommends going for a "complete, but minimal subset of what people will want to do", rather than too many convenience methods
+
** John: Some API has been provisional for 3 years - can't make wholesale changes now for the fun of it
+
*** May phase in some changes by adding @noreference rather than deleting stuff
+
*** In some cases there's pressure to use interfaces rather than classes, in order to be able and leverage Java 8 constructs
+
* Orion - anybody going to JSConf ?
+
  
<hr/>
+
-> Alex to contact Denis and to cc the other PMC members
'''February 27, 2013''' - John, Andrew, Dani
+
* Nothing noteworthy
+
  
<hr/>
+
'''February 4, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Tom
'''February 20, 2013''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
* OSGi Spec talk
* John: '''Orion Release Review''', please give feedback
+
** OSGi R8 Core will be done this year.
 +
** May be ready for 4.16, but no rush if it slips to 4.17
 +
** Will not put anything in master until spec is final which makes it more likely to be 4.17
  
<hr/>
 
'''February 13, 2013'''
 
* {{bug|156134}} re-exporting debug dependencies
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''January 28, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars
'''February 6, 2013''' - John, Dani, Martin
+
* Ongoing saga of the EPP packages
* John: '''M5a and SR2 RC4'''
+
** Markus did it last week
* John: Pawel and Platform / Debug work (Pin & Clone)
+
** PMC discussed possible futures here, but no conclusions
** Only adopt when it's really ready and satisfies all criteria, otherwise not into Kepler
+
** Discussion also happening at the board level
** Maybe pull out Debug plugins into a feature of their own ?
+
* M2 is this week
 +
* Pushing for JUnit updates for M2
  
<hr/>
 
'''January 30, 2013''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Andrew
 
* John: '''SR2 RC3''' looking good - want to know about any remaining issues
 
* Dani: '''Java 8 Update''' - Markus Keller will move from JDT UI to JDT Core, taking over JSR-308
 
* John: '''NODE Dependency in Orion (exempt pre-req)'''
 
** Not shipping NODE ourselves, pushing to NODE package manager instead (or clone from git)
 
** Andrew: Is it a workswith ?
 
** Martin: Is there any overlap with the Java portion ?
 
*** The server code is completely distinct from Java, but the same client can interact with both
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''January 21, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, Lars
'''January 24, 2013''' -  
+
* Dani: EPP builds still missing, Dani contacted Markus Knauer to update EPP for M1, release train is at risk if nobody steps up
* Martin: '''4.3 and 3.8 dual-stream''' - [http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=webtools#themes_and_priorities Webtools project plan]
+
* New test failures are investigated, action plan is to restart the test, if they still fails restart the machine and if the tests still fail, see if a revert fixes the test
** egit, mylyn, dtp have been doing both n + n-1 for a long time
+
** Technically, running on both should be possible if Platform API is used (except for the changes in Theming)
+
** The Eclipse Community needs to advance the latest (4.3)
+
** IBM product teams have been told not to forward at all if they can't forward to 4.x - shipping on 4.2
+
** John: Having '''wider ranges of tolerance''' is something we should be able to do (otherwise our plugin system is failing)
+
** John: Java8 will be the first killer feature in 4.x
+
* Dani: '''Java 8'''
+
** Will provide feature patches as soon as it makes sense - early draft, participating in expert group
+
** Want to have the compiler and editor ready when Java 8 goes GA - initial refactoring etc in SR1 - full feature set in the next release
+
* John: '''CBI update'''
+
** Consider switch after M5
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''January 17, 2013''' - McQ, John, Martin
 
* John: '''{{bug|397896}} EPP vs Classic'''
 
** Could volunteer to own the EPP package from Platform POV
 
** Then Wayne would own the decision of RCP/RAP vs Classic - what's the difference, keep both or unify
 
* John: '''Test Failures on I-Builds'''
 
** Move away tests that have been failing for 9 months
 
** Dani: Most tests are actually down to 0 failures
 
* John: '''CBI / Maven Builds'''
 
** Appears to be fragile at the moment - Maven .micro releases are breaking the build!
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''January 14, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom
'''January 10, 2013''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
* Dani: Switch to SUSE Enterprise 15, team is in favor to drop 12
* McQ: '''CBI''' - Switching Platform build to CBI for SR2 is not doable
+
* Dani: Plan updated to remove Windows 7
** Want to make CBI work for Juno since it's the LTS stream
+
* Alex: Felix Dependencies for SCR done
** CBI SDK builds are good at this point, it's only a couple of minor issues (shape of repos, download page, ...
+
** confirm fix for {{bug|544571}}
** When to switch to CBI in the Kepler Stream ? - Proposal do do it immediately
+
** releng disruptions during update, but recovered.  More disruptions expected as we update dependencies for March release.
* CBI patches waiting for Platform to pick up
+
** broken builds, need to get a list of issues. Seems to be more infrastructure issues. Need to report back to the foundation. Example, the signing issue that broken the respin.
 +
* Some discussion about gitlab option at foundation. {{bug|537913}}
 +
** What happens to gerrit work flow for review?
 +
** Would dropping bugzilla happen or can we migrate all issues?
 +
** Without migration it is a no-go for us
 +
** Currently no plans to move Eclipse project to gitlab at this time.
  
<hr/>
 
'''January 3, 2013''' - McQ, Andrew, John, Dani
 
* Andrew will recommend good conferences to promote Orion
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''January 7, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars
 +
* Dani: Created initial 4.15 plan - please have a look
 +
* Dani: Created release record for 4.15
 +
* Dani: Sent a note to teams to create their 4.15 plan items/bugs
 +
* Dani: Do we want to drop support for Windows 7 (remove from Target Environments only)
 +
** Unanimous decision: Yes
 +
* Dani: Discuss (again, see below) resolution for stale bugs
 +
** We want to ask the webmaster that stale bugs are directly closed. ACTION ITEM for Lars
 +
** We will only auto/mass close existing stale bugs with notification turned off
 +
* Change rules about x-internal exports ({{bug|553709}})
 +
** Decision:
 +
** - Newly added internal packages should not use x-internal exports unless there are very good reasons
 +
** - For existing packages the x-internal export can be removed with PMC approval
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2019 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2019]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2018 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2018]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2017 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2017]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Latest revision as of 10:43, 12 May 2021

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

May 12, 2021 - McQ, Tom

  • Meeting cut short
  • Need to find a new time for PMC call
    • regular conflicts for planning council and board meetings


April 28, 2021 - Tom, Alex

  • Mac M1 changes are in to move to aarch64
  • Discussed progress on Jar signing issue for Java 16
    • Progress being made but will require some change in behavior of the Equinox SignedContent API
    • Will result in deprecation of at least one method
    • Working towards M3 solution.
  • Discussed move to PGP verification as alternative to signed JAR verification to p2
    • Progress being made there, hopefully get something for M3


Mar 31, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars

  • Java 16 jar signing issue
    • Tom wants to replace equinox implementation with builtin Jar file implementation so changes don't have to be done in Equinox on each release
  • JSP/Jetty story in IDE
    • Do we still need same functionality?
    • Alex - get out of the business for help system. Dependencies (jetty, lucene) generate more releng work than we can handle.
    • McQ - url for plugin help would be simplest and open it in browser
    • Any change (e.g. JSP removal) has to go through standard deprecation period, announcements and etc.
    • Alex to initiate communication on longer term plan with Holger who works on improvements to help system lately


Mar 31, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex

  • PMC call time
    • Overlaps with Planning council call and both Tom and Alex can't make both

-> Decision: Skip PMC call every first Wed of the month

  • Webpage Hugo migration
    • Recommended by Eclipse Foundation and active contributor to do the conversion
    • Concerns about mixing old and new content are raised but they don't look severe
    • Supported by PMC

-> Tom to handle initial communication on behalf of PMC

  • Planning process relevance
    • the planning process is not providing the detailed and usable plans from the past
    • not a pain point as fewer people participate it but looks like useless exercise quite often
    • to be discussed....


Mar 24, 2021 - Tom, Alex, Lars

  • Pack 200 - API removal in 2 years - 2023-06
    • Should we turn off all pack 200 features in one year, make it consistent across all Java versions.
    • 2022-06 - disable pack200 for all Java versions. Calling the deprecated API will be a no-op
  • Pack 200 - When can we stop generating? Agreed on 2021-09 release. We should set the precedence as early as possible to stop producing pack200 artifacts.
  • split packages
    • Causing issues with mandatory directive and p2 bug 360659 and with tycho.
    • Currently tycho requires some work arounds for usage of split packages
    • Can we work to get rid of split packages. We agreed to investigate the work and move to combine split packages if possible.


Mar 17, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars

  • SWT Chromium support
    • Still no recent version of Chromium with security patches
    • Will be dropped in M1 (if no recent version is provided in the next weeks or if no one steps up)
  • Pack 2000 support
    • not supported anymore as of Java 14
    • will be deprecated and marked for removal
  • Moving Eclipse repos to Github
    • Moving to Github might simplify and therefore increase contributions
    • Huge amount of work in releng
    • Potentially we should all subprojects at the same time
    • We check if the foundation plans to move everything to Gitlab


Mar 10, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex

  • Moving to Jetty 10 for next release
  • platform-dev discussion about move to GitHub
    • conversation is useful, but would take a lot of planning
    • lots of current rel eng dependencies on Gerrit
      • need more community help for rel eng issues
    • a massive amount of history in our Bugzilla
  • release record and proto-plan created for 4.20


Febr 17, 2021 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • Looks good for 4.19 release
  • Mac ARM has to wait for the 4.20 release, as the team fights multiple issues
  • Top-level project page can currently only be edited by Tom, other PMC members also have access to it https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/eclipse/who


Dec 15, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • 06. January 2021 is the next meeting
  • How can PMC increase the awareness of the project leads / committers?
    • Maybe invite the project leads once per month to the PMC meeting?
    • Discussion how we can increase the JDT community


Dec 01, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • RC1 is out; final touches on RC2
  • How can we remove the confusion about "e4" project?
    • e4 has always been intended to be a sandbox project where people could try things that are experimental or are on a longer timeline
    • Should be renamed to make it clear this isn't about leftovers from the Eclipse 4.0 work (maybe "eNext"?)
    • Should clean up repos
      • Remove repos that just hold code that has already moved to the platform
      • Remove repos that are no longer getting any investment
      • Work toward moving things that are active/useful into the platform (e.g. "spies" to PDE)

Nov 24, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • PMC is considering the potential of an SDK / IDE working group at the foundation
  • Discussion Do we need the extra releng work to create p2 repositories for milestones?
    • Lot of extra work and sometimes goes wrong
    • All I-Builds are anyway available

-> PMC decided to drop the additional p2 repository -> Alex will be sending out an email about it to inform potential users of the special p2 repos

    • Discussion about the purpose of the milestone week at all

-> Decision not to change the process for now, as the additional testing and focus has also some benefits


Nov 17, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Release 4.18 winding down
    • SWT churn for Linux and Mac Big Sur
    • Does not appear the Foundation got the new Mac Hardware for testing
  • Planning Council discussion
    • Dani filled the Eclipse TLP representation role on the Council
    • Alex can take the lead to that role
    • Alex will look to find a replacement for the tools TLP representative


Nov 10, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Still dealing with the loss of Dani
  • Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
  • Stabilizing for M3
  • Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
  • Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency


Nov 10, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Still dealing with the loss of Dani
  • Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
  • Stabilizing for M3
  • Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
  • Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency


Nov 3, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Dani!


Oct 27, 2020 - Lars, Tom

  • Nothing to discuss


Oct 20, 2020 - Lars, Tom, McQ, Alex

  • EclipseCon is running virtual this week
  • Agreement that removal of API should only before M1 release
  • Proof of concept for using Java 11 http client instead of ECF should be done
  • if we remove ECF we should send out an announcement and keep it for at least one release
  • Decision to start using the @Deprecated(since = "x.y.z", forRemoval = true) for planned API removals if the bundle can use Java 11, wiki for API removal should be updated

Oct 6, 2020 - Dani, Tom, McQ, Alex

  • M1 under control
  • Release train materials being worked
  • Moved to Jetty 9.4.32
  • ECF — need to simplify how we consume http client
    • could use Java11 http client instead, but this would require significant development effort
    • Tom/Alex to take an initial stab at understanding scope + open bugs
  • Proposal: remove API once a year
    • Given the already long time for consumers to respond to API deprecation, PMC decision was to continue to allow API removal in any release. It was felt that the incremental benefit was outweighed by the need to be able to move forward quickly.


Sep 15, 2020 - Dani, Tom, Lars, Alex

  • M1
    • Next week M1 - Alex to send reminder note
    • Holiday in India on this Friday
  • Y-Build for Java 16
    • Builds should be fixed and can continue to progress on Java 16
  • SCR upgrade
    • Some issues with EBR maven plugin
    • causes versions to be incorrectly represented in p2 meta-data
    • Orbit needs a new lead, will end up impacting us if no replacement found
  • Tycho being updated to be able to OSGi-fy JARs if they are not there yet.
    • How to use this for a feature?
    • Behaves much like Orbit to produce new versions of the artifact.
    • Could be the solution for Orbit needs.


Sep 22, 2020 - no meeting


Sep 15, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Lars, Tom, Alex

  • Dani: Java 15 released today
    • 4.17 release together with Marketplace for Java 15 support are ready
    • JDT Java 15 to be merged this week
  • Dani: Zoom call with password unless each of the PMC members can be added as meeting owner so can start the meeting
  • Alex: 4.18 stream opened and releng work calmed down
  • Lars: Cleanup of migration guides
    • Dani: this will break existing links, so existing content have to stay unless someone does all the work to fix our plans and other links that will break
    • McQ: help system needs work to focus on the latest stuff/release, what should we do to achieve it? How can we better shape the help system now that having all content ofline is not a requirement?
    • Alex: do not ship migration, n&n,etc. but rather point to website url from help system
    • Alex: this would also reduce manual work for releng (+1 by Dani)
    • ACTION ITEM: Alex to work on n&n in help system to use the website content directly as a proof of concept for further work


Sep 01, 2020 - Lars, Alex

  • RC1 is fine, no additional requests for RC2


August 25, 2020 - Tom, Lars, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: sent out Endgame plan, RC1 this week, vacation starting on Friday
  • Alex informed about Red Hat's Releng participation


August 18, 2020 - Tom, Lars, Dani

  • Dani to create and send out Endgame plan
  • Looking into Mac Big Sur launching issue (bug 565913)


August 11, 2020 - Alex, Dani, Tom, McQ

  • Eclipse Foundation is getting access to an Apple Silicon dev kit
    • Will make it available to SWT devs via cloud connectivity
  • M3 next week; RC1 following week
  • ARM64 port seems to be working fine, except for browser widget (still investigating)


August 4, 2020 - Alex, Lars, Dani

  • no topics to discuss


July 28, 2020 - Tom, McQ

  • no topics to discuss


July 21, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars

  • no topics to discuss
  • Alex on vacation next week


July 14, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars

  • Project status
    • M1 shipped last week
    • Draft Plan for 4.17 posted - additional fixes done after review
    • Release record created for 4.17
  • CQ process discussion - new clearly defined process
    • Note sent to Wayne to get clarifications on handbook, Wayne has made some edits in response. We need to review latest handbook
    • Should simplify IP clearance for third party libraries
      • If a bundle is approved by clearly defined it can be added with no CQ as long as the mavin URLs/coordinates are vetted by clearly defined
      • Orbit should soon automate the linking to clearly defined approvals for bundles added. Currently a work in progress by Roland at Orbit.
      • The ratings system at clearly defined is not used. Only the license check is used.
    • PMC needs to review latest handbook on the topic ... As of now we should move forward with the new process
      • If concerns arise later we will need to take actions to correct
  • bug 565066 - Needs some attention to the solution and testing
    • attempt to make incremental installation be consistent with resolution of a fresh install (or -clean).


June 23, 2020 - no call

June 16, 2020 - no call

June 9, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom

  • McQ: message to guide the community got no public reactions so far
  • Dani: bug reports needed for JDT, do we have PMC agreement?
    • Alex: For me that was approved after jdt-dev vote ended
    • AGREED
  • Dani: RC2 done, no major bug so far but still monitoriing for regressions
  • Alex: 4.17 stream open, not finished until 4.16 if final so all apichecks and etc. are in proper shape
  • Tom: OSGi R8 merge after stabilizing 4.17 stream
  • Tom: OSGi Move to Java 8 right after that
  • Dani: Switch to Java 11 as min version as it was already announced to happen in 4.17 stream shortly


June 2, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom

  • Inactive committer clean up for Eclipse project for the 4.16 release started via bug 563720
  • Infrastructure is really slow for RC2 release
  • RC2 bug queue is really low, one restart issue which is currently under investigated by Tom
  • Discussion about the JDT cleanup e-mails
    • Need to ensure community discussions are positive and respectful.
    • Expectations here should come from leadership
      • LibreOffice did this in the past to great success.
    • Committers can vote against bugs but the tone of the discussion is important.
    • PMC will respond via the public mailing list within a week


May 26, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ


May 19, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Dani: Issues with the build infrastructure, might endanger M3, the team got a working build for testing
  • Dani: PowerPC hardware was donated so builds are starting again for it
  • Alex: CQ process might get simpler based on blog post from Wayne, Alex to test and validate with Wayne https://blogs.eclipse.org/post/wayne-beaton/revising-eclipse-ip-due-diligence-process-third-party-content
  • Lars: Question if we want to allow "EGit" commit style in Eclipse top-level project. Agreement was to allow it but not to recommend it or enforce it


May 12, 2020 - Tom, Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex

  • Update to themes
    • Preference being added for choosing square vs round tabs
    • Intern from Alex's team is taking up the work
    • Update to Windows theme to be Windows 10
  • Alex brings up changes to CQ requirements. Need to read up on Wayne's post about this and discuss in a future call if we can change how the project does CQs
  • Who is running dark theme?
    • Need someone to cover test of Dark Theme on Linux. Lars indicated that he runs with Linux Dark Theme and can help in coverage
    • Dani described the various members of his team that cover the rest of the platforms
  • Request to contribute to article on what is new in the release for a June newsletter. Lars to contribute improvements in the Dark theme. General request to others to contribute anything else.
  • ppc64le build troubles
    • Been having ongoing issues with the university hosted ppc64le machine we use to build support for ppc64le
    • Currently the ppc64le build has been disabled
    • Need to find alternatives
      • May be able to use something from IBM public cloud
      • Other suggestions: McQ - look towards using emulation, Alex - could do cross-compilation
    • Need to plan if ppc 10 will supported in the future


May 5, 2020 - Dani, Alex, Lars, McQ, Tom

  • M2 shipped on time
    • Dark theme rebuild for M2 due to severe issue
  • ICU4J removal note sent
    • Lars - 2 years notice period needed?
    • Agreement: it's needed as we expose it in API and still have usages in internals so we need time to clean up ourself
    • EPPs cleanup - some blocked by JDT still using it, some by WTP, Rust probably the first one to be icu4j clean
  • Roundes vs square ctabfolder
    • Number of themes to be reduced
    • Performance not being measurable
    • Agreement: add preference to switch the rounded vs
    • Agreement: when preference is available Square is default
  • Windows theme update -
    • Fix colors to match Windows 10
    • GTK looks way more sane as more effort has been invested to keep it current
    • Don't set colors but use the colors from the OS theme is the recipe
    • Ugly white line on windows dark theme needs bugzilla open


April 28, 2020 - Dani, Alex, Lars


April 21, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • Q: How do we deal with ICU removal from data binding?
    • Need to follow standard API removal rules
      • Deprecate old API and offer new API
      • Remove deprecated API after 2 years
    • Can we put the old stuff in a fragment that could be removed?
  • Theming: rounded tabs versus square tabs (bug 562221)
    • Should we offer it at all?
    • Alex: Don’t increase the number of themes or options
    • Lars: Square tabs are faster
    • If speed is significant, we should consider changing the default


April 14, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • Dani
    • M1 shipped, no problems so far
    • Using ECJ from M1 to build the SDK has some issues, there are people working on it
    • 4.16 plan to be published this week
  • Unanimous decision to continue to use Zoom as usual


April 7, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • Dani
    • Created 4.16 plan
    • Created release record for 4.16. Corresponding bug is bug 561643
    • Sent note to add planning bugs for 4.16
    • Please review and provide feedback if any
    • After some infrastructure issues we have a good test build and currently things look good for M1 this week
  • Alex seconded the infrastructure issues and missing test results
  • ICU4J (bug 560312): we decided to remove it piece by piece from projects where possible and where someone is interested to do it. The ICU bundle itself will stay, and we will follow the API removal process when we are ready to remove it, i.e. no usage in the SDK anymore


March 31, 2020 - Dani, Alex, McQ, Tom, Lars

  • Dani: Contacted the ICU4J owner. He updated bug 560312, PMC members will review the comment and we will discuss next week
  • Dani: Planning bugs are created slowly for 4.16. Will send a reminder to the list to submit more. Started to work on plan and release record.


March 24, 2020 - Alex, McQ, Tom

  • Dani: Regrets for the call (Eclipse Board call)
  • Alex: status updates
    • JDT merged Java 14 in master
    • Build instability due to infra status
  • Alex: OSGi R8 modules support - what is it?
    • Tom: ability to represent external content in the OSGi framework
    • Alex: Will it allow shipping eclipse plugins as JPMS modules to ease native library handling?
    • Tom: Haven't found any clear example how JPMS handles this, so good example is needed before could be looked further.


March 17, 2020 - Alex, McQ, Lars Tom, Dani

  • ICU4J use still under discussion
    • Dani still to contact ICU4J owner
  • Shipping Java 14 and 4.15 this week
  • Java 14 work will be merged to master on Wednesday


March 10, 2020 - Lars, Tom

  • Dani: Regrets for the call (vacation)
  • ICU4J use still under discussion
    • if we can be confident that performance and language support are of *similar* quality, we should work towards removing icu4j because it reduces complexity for us, in addition allowing for smaller RCP apps
    • note that we already have mixed usage -- some components using icu4j and some not
  • to clarify approvals that require a project lead can be done by a project lead for any of the Eclipse Project subprojects
    • as usual, the project lead should take care to understand the change and its implications before approving
  • we will move to Jetty 10 (and thus to Java 11) for the fall release
  • RH will be leading releng for 4.16


March 3, 2020 - no meeting


February 25, 2020 - Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex

  • Dani: Created and sent Endgame plan
  • Dani: Submitted IP Log: https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21716
  • Alex: SWT on Linux in 4.16 to require Gtk 3.20 to simplify CSS machinery and prep for GTK4
  • Alex: ICU4J removal
    • Dani: ICU4J reacts faster to changes and supports more features (new Japanese era)
    • Alex: It might but Eclipse fails at keeping up so current version shipped with Eclipse misses features that the JVM supports (latest CLDR)
    • Dani: Asks for a proof that JVM is better that ICU
    • Alex: Which metrics to be measured?
    • Dani: Will check with ICU guy about that and whether it's still needed


February 18, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom

  • Dani: need to work on IP Log, Release Review and Endgame Plan
  • Lars: ECF - will we update to the latest
    • Alex: is in the works. Scott needs to provide us with the update
  • Tom: Found an issue with JUnit 5 launching but not reproducible with latest I-build
    • Dani: File a bug if you have steps or contact Noopur directly
  • Dani: Update on X-builds and tags


February 11, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom

  • Alex: Infrastructure is very instable, how can be complain to the foundation?
    • Alex: Eclipse foundation server team not responding to complains and seem unclear about the source of the issue
    • Discussion about makes a stronger statement to the foundation about the bad state of the infrastructure
    • McQ: Suggestion to send a note as PMC to the foundation
    • Dani: First we should ask webmaster why this takes so long
    • Alex: Marketplace infrastructure is also in bad state

-> Alex to contact Denis and to cc the other PMC members

February 4, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Tom

  • OSGi Spec talk
    • OSGi R8 Core will be done this year.
    • May be ready for 4.16, but no rush if it slips to 4.17
    • Will not put anything in master until spec is final which makes it more likely to be 4.17


January 28, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars

  • Ongoing saga of the EPP packages
    • Markus did it last week
    • PMC discussed possible futures here, but no conclusions
    • Discussion also happening at the board level
  • M2 is this week
  • Pushing for JUnit updates for M2


January 21, 2020 - Dani, Tom, Lars

  • Dani: EPP builds still missing, Dani contacted Markus Knauer to update EPP for M1, release train is at risk if nobody steps up
  • New test failures are investigated, action plan is to restart the test, if they still fails restart the machine and if the tests still fail, see if a revert fixes the test


January 14, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom

  • Dani: Switch to SUSE Enterprise 15, team is in favor to drop 12
  • Dani: Plan updated to remove Windows 7
  • Alex: Felix Dependencies for SCR done
    • confirm fix for bug 544571
    • releng disruptions during update, but recovered. More disruptions expected as we update dependencies for March release.
    • broken builds, need to get a list of issues. Seems to be more infrastructure issues. Need to report back to the foundation. Example, the signing issue that broken the respin.
  • Some discussion about gitlab option at foundation. bug 537913
    • What happens to gerrit work flow for review?
    • Would dropping bugzilla happen or can we migrate all issues?
    • Without migration it is a no-go for us
    • Currently no plans to move Eclipse project to gitlab at this time.


January 7, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars

  • Dani: Created initial 4.15 plan - please have a look
  • Dani: Created release record for 4.15
  • Dani: Sent a note to teams to create their 4.15 plan items/bugs
  • Dani: Do we want to drop support for Windows 7 (remove from Target Environments only)
    • Unanimous decision: Yes
  • Dani: Discuss (again, see below) resolution for stale bugs
    • We want to ask the webmaster that stale bugs are directly closed. ACTION ITEM for Lars
    • We will only auto/mass close existing stale bugs with notification turned off
  • Change rules about x-internal exports (bug 553709)
    • Decision:
    • - Newly added internal packages should not use x-internal exports unless there are very good reasons
    • - For existing packages the x-internal export can be removed with PMC approval

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