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= Documents =
 +
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 +
 +
* [[E4/Graduation_4.0]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Unix Groups]]
 +
 
= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
'''May 27:''' - McQ, Martin, Steve
+
'''September 22''' - McQ, Tom, Lars, Alex, Jay
* {{bug|277735}} releng.tools copyright tool - Martin would like to see it released. Discuss in Arch call.
+
 
 +
* {{bug|565913}} - Should the provisional APIs be allowed or rejected?
 +
** McQ: Is this on the path to becoming an API?
 +
** Tom: The package being discussed - Is this clearly isolated or are there other stuff in there. If latter, they probably shouldn't be promoted as API.
 +
** Jay: The packages, even if provisional for now, should not change in future if they are to become API.
 +
--> Resolution: Fine to have it as provitional API but we should work on the correct set of packages
 +
* Mass Cleanup changes after M1 in JDT?
 +
** Jay: Depends on how "mass clean up change" is defined. Any tool driven change should definitely be restricted to M1 but open to taking up other reasonably small hand-made changes post M1.
 +
* Github move proposal - All to go over Alex's doc and provide feedback.
 +
* CVS - Still waiting for feedback from all quarters. There may be an interest in keeping it alive.
 +
** Alex: Whoever interested, we can make him/her the owner of the component and entrust with the ownership.
 +
* Eclipse 20 year anniversary!
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''September 15''' - Tom, Lars, Alex, Jay
 +
 
 +
* Java 17 is released in master. Marketplace is available for installing on  4.21 GA.
 +
* Java LTS will come out every 2 years, a proposal at the moment.  Shouldn’t be much impact because we already dealing with 6 month releases.
 +
* Security Manager deprecation
 +
** Much discussion about the impact of removal of AccessController
 +
** A need for feedback from Eclipse to the JEP to voice our concerns that removing the doPriv methods will be very disruptive for the community
 +
* Windows 11 testing
 +
** Foundation says if we want additional Windows machine we need to find additional sponsors.
 +
** Windows 11 is initially auto-upgrade for small set and then go up from there.
 +
** We anticipate testing Windows 11 in our build in one year from now.
 +
* Github move - Will wait for all of us all to go though the doc Alex sent us.
 +
* CVS - will we take it with us to GitHub.  December release is the last one we provide CVS support?  (Alex sent a note on this)
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''June 16, 2021''' - Alex, Lars, Tom
 +
* JDT Java 11
 +
** From PMC perspective - Project should be free to only support the latest version of most any dependency without requiring PMC approval.
 +
** The group of committers available on the project is not enough to continue to maintain old versions of dependencies indefinitely.
 +
** Announcement from the project leadership to the community should be done to solicit feedback and additional support from new contributors/committers if the community wants to maintain support for old stuff.  If nobody shows up to help then we have no choice but to drop support for old versions of dependencies.
 +
* Continued discussion for need of a new PMC member
 +
** Still feeling the void after losing Dani
 +
** Additional leadership is needed to drive concerns in the JDT project
 +
* Ongoing discussion about behavior needed to grow the community [Edits by McQ]
 +
** Need to focus on improving process so contributions are merged in a timely fashion
 +
** Need to make sure that there are clear and reasonable requirements for contributions, and that the community is aware of them.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''May 19, 2021''' - Alex, Lars, McQ, Tom
 +
* Using built in Java JAR signing support now
 +
* Yearly process initiated for retiring inactive committers
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''May 12, 2021''' - McQ, Tom
 +
* Meeting cut short
 +
* Need to find a new time for PMC call
 +
** regular conflicts for planning council and board meetings
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''April 28, 2021''' - Tom, Alex
 +
* Mac M1 changes are in to move to aarch64
 +
* Discussed progress on Jar signing issue for Java 16
 +
** Progress being made but will require some change in behavior of the Equinox SignedContent API
 +
** Will result in deprecation of at least one method
 +
** Working towards M3 solution.
 +
* Discussed move to PGP verification as alternative to signed JAR verification to p2
 +
** Progress being made there, hopefully get something for M3
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Mar 31, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars
 +
* Java 16 jar signing issue
 +
** Tom wants to replace equinox implementation with builtin Jar file implementation so changes don't have to be done in Equinox on each release
 +
* JSP/Jetty story in IDE
 +
** Do we still need same functionality?
 +
** Alex - get out of the business for help system. Dependencies (jetty, lucene) generate more releng work than we can handle.
 +
** McQ - url for plugin help would be simplest and open it in browser
 +
** Any change (e.g. JSP removal) has to go through standard deprecation period, announcements and etc.
 +
** Alex to initiate communication on longer term plan with Holger who works on improvements to help system lately
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Mar 31, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex
 +
 
 +
* PMC call time
 +
** Overlaps with Planning council call and both Tom and Alex can't make both
 +
-> Decision: Skip PMC call every first Wed of the month
 +
 
 +
* Webpage Hugo migration
 +
** Recommended by Eclipse Foundation and active contributor to do the conversion
 +
** Concerns about mixing old and new content are raised but they don't look severe
 +
** Supported by PMC
 +
-> Tom to handle initial communication on behalf of PMC
 +
 
 +
* Planning process relevance
 +
** the planning process is not providing the detailed and usable plans from the past
 +
** not a pain point as fewer people participate it but looks like useless exercise quite often
 +
** to be discussed....
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Mar 24, 2021''' - Tom, Alex, Lars
 +
 
 +
* Pack 200 - API removal in 2 years - 2023-06
 +
** Should we turn off all pack 200 features in one year, make it consistent across all Java versions.
 +
** 2022-06 - disable pack200 for all Java versions. Calling the deprecated API will be a no-op
 +
 
 +
* Pack 200 - When can we stop generating? Agreed on 2021-09 release.  We should set the precedence as early as possible to stop producing pack200 artifacts.
 +
 
 +
* split packages
 +
** Causing issues with mandatory directive and p2 {{bug|360659}} and with tycho.
 +
** Currently tycho requires some work arounds for usage of split packages
 +
** Can we work to get rid of split packages. We agreed to investigate the work and move to combine split packages if possible.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Mar 17, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars
 +
* SWT Chromium support
 +
** Still no recent version of Chromium with security patches
 +
** Will be dropped in M1 (if no recent version is provided in the next weeks or if no one steps up)
 +
 
 +
* Pack 2000 support
 +
** not supported anymore as of Java 14
 +
** will be deprecated and marked for removal
 +
 
 +
* Moving Eclipse repos to Github
 +
** Moving to Github might simplify and therefore increase contributions
 +
** Huge amount of work in releng
 +
** Potentially we should all subprojects at the same time
 +
** We check if the foundation plans to move everything to Gitlab
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Mar 10, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex
 +
* Moving to Jetty 10 for next release
 +
* platform-dev discussion about move to GitHub
 +
** conversation is useful, but would take a lot of planning
 +
** lots of current rel eng dependencies on Gerrit
 +
*** need more community help for rel eng issues
 +
** a massive amount of history in our Bugzilla
 +
* release record and proto-plan created for 4.20
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Febr 17, 2021''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* Looks good for 4.19 release
 +
* Mac ARM has to wait for the 4.20 release, as the team fights multiple issues
 +
* Top-level project page can currently only be edited by Tom, other PMC members also have access to it https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/eclipse/who
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Dec 15, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* 06. January 2021 is the next meeting
 +
* How can PMC increase the awareness of the project leads / committers?
 +
** Maybe invite the project leads once per month to the PMC meeting?
 +
** Discussion how we can increase the JDT community
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Dec 01, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* RC1 is out; final touches on RC2
 +
* How can we remove the confusion about "e4" project?
 +
** e4 has always been intended to be a sandbox project where people could try things that are experimental or are on a longer timeline
 +
** Should be renamed to make it clear this isn't about leftovers from the Eclipse 4.0 work (maybe "eNext"?)
 +
** Should clean up repos
 +
*** Remove repos that just hold code that has already moved to the platform
 +
*** Remove repos that are no longer getting any investment
 +
*** Work toward moving things that are active/useful into the platform (e.g. "spies" to PDE)
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 24, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* PMC is considering the potential of an SDK / IDE working group at the foundation
 +
 
 +
* Discussion Do we need the extra releng work to create p2 repositories for milestones?
 +
** Lot of extra work and sometimes goes wrong
 +
** All I-Builds are anyway available
 +
 
 +
-> PMC decided to drop the additional p2 repository
 +
-> Alex will be sending out an email about it to inform potential users of the special p2 repos
 +
 
 +
** Discussion about the purpose of the milestone week at all
 +
-> Decision not to change the process for now, as the additional testing and focus has also some benefits
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 17, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Release 4.18 winding down
 +
** SWT churn for Linux and Mac Big Sur
 +
** Does not appear the Foundation got the new Mac Hardware for testing
 +
* Planning Council discussion
 +
** Dani filled the Eclipse TLP representation role on the Council
 +
** Alex can take the lead to that role
 +
** Alex will look to find a replacement for the tools TLP representative
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 10, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Still dealing with the loss of Dani
 +
* Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
 +
* Stabilizing for M3
 +
* Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
 +
* Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 10, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Still dealing with the loss of Dani
 +
* Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
 +
* Stabilizing for M3
 +
* Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
 +
* Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 3, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Dani!
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Oct 27, 2020''' - Lars, Tom
 +
* Nothing to discuss
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Oct 20, 2020''' - Lars, Tom, McQ, Alex
 +
* EclipseCon is running virtual this week
 +
* Agreement that removal of API should only before M1 release
 +
* Proof of concept for using Java 11 http client instead of ECF should be done
 +
* if we remove ECF we should send out an announcement and keep it for at least one release
 +
* Decision to start using the @Deprecated(since = "x.y.z", forRemoval = true) for planned API removals if the bundle can use Java 11, wiki for API removal should be updated
 +
 
 +
'''Oct 6, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, McQ, Alex
 +
* M1 under control
 +
* Release train materials being worked
 +
* Moved to Jetty 9.4.32
 +
* ECF — need to simplify how we consume http client
 +
** could use Java11 http client instead, but this would require significant development effort
 +
** Tom/Alex to take an initial stab at understanding scope + open bugs
 +
* Proposal: remove API once a year
 +
** Given the already long time for consumers to respond to API deprecation, PMC decision was to continue to allow API removal in any release. It was felt that the incremental benefit was outweighed by the need to be able to move forward quickly.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Sep 15, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, Lars, Alex
 +
* M1
 +
** Next week M1 - Alex to send reminder note
 +
** Holiday in India on this Friday
 +
 
 +
* Y-Build for Java 16
 +
** Builds should be fixed and can continue to progress on Java 16
 +
 
 +
* SCR upgrade
 +
** Some issues with EBR maven plugin
 +
** causes versions to be incorrectly represented in p2 meta-data
 +
** Orbit needs a new lead, will end up impacting us if no replacement found
 +
 
 +
* Tycho being updated to be able to OSGi-fy JARs if they are not there yet.
 +
** How to use this for a feature?
 +
** Behaves much like Orbit to produce new versions of the artifact.
 +
** Could be the solution for Orbit needs.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Sep 22, 2020''' - no meeting
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Sep 15, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Lars, Tom, Alex
 +
* Dani: Java 15 released today
 +
** 4.17 release together with Marketplace for Java 15 support are ready
 +
** JDT Java 15 to be merged this week
 +
* Dani: Zoom call with password unless each of the PMC members can be added as meeting owner so can start the meeting
 +
* Alex: 4.18 stream opened and releng work calmed down
 +
* Lars: Cleanup of migration guides
 +
** Dani: this will break existing links, so existing content have to stay unless someone does all the work to fix our plans and other links that will break
 +
** McQ: help system needs work to focus on the latest stuff/release, what should we do to achieve it? How can we better shape the help system now that having all content ofline is not a requirement?
 +
** Alex: do not ship migration, n&n,etc. but rather point to website url from help system
 +
** Alex: this would also reduce manual work for releng (+1 by Dani)
 +
** ACTION ITEM: Alex to work on n&n in help system to use the website content directly as a proof of concept for further work
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Sep 01, 2020''' - Lars, Alex
 +
* RC1 is fine, no additional requests for RC2
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''August 25, 2020''' - Tom, Lars, Alex, Dani
 +
* Dani: sent out Endgame plan, RC1 this week, vacation starting on Friday
 +
* Alex informed about Red Hat's Releng participation
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''August 18, 2020''' - Tom, Lars, Dani
 +
* Dani to create and send out Endgame plan
 +
* Looking into Mac Big Sur launching issue ({{bug|565913}})
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''August 11, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, Tom, McQ
 +
* Eclipse Foundation is getting access to an Apple Silicon dev kit
 +
** Will make it available to SWT devs via cloud connectivity
 +
* M3 next week; RC1 following week
 +
* ARM64 port seems to be working fine, except for browser widget (still investigating)
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''August 4, 2020''' - Alex, Lars, Dani
 +
* no topics to discuss
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''July 28, 2020''' - Tom, McQ
 +
* no topics to discuss
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''July 21, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars
 +
* no topics to discuss
 +
* Alex on vacation next week
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''July 14, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars
 +
* Project status
 +
** M1 shipped last week
 +
** Draft Plan for 4.17 posted - additional fixes done after review
 +
** Release record created for 4.17
 +
* CQ process discussion - new clearly defined process
 +
** Note sent to Wayne to get clarifications on handbook, Wayne has made some edits in response.  We need to review latest handbook
 +
** Should simplify IP clearance for third party libraries
 +
*** If a bundle is approved by clearly defined it can be added with no CQ as long as the mavin URLs/coordinates are vetted by clearly defined
 +
*** Orbit should soon automate the linking to clearly defined approvals for bundles added.  Currently a work in progress by Roland at Orbit.
 +
*** The ratings system at clearly defined is not used.  Only the license check is used.
 +
** PMC needs to review latest handbook on the topic ... As of now we should move forward with the new process
 +
*** If concerns arise later we will need to take actions to correct
 +
* {{bug|565066}} - Needs some attention to the solution and testing
 +
** attempt to make incremental installation be consistent with resolution of a fresh install (or -clean).
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''June 23, 2020''' - no call
 +
 
 +
'''June 16, 2020''' - no call
 +
 
 +
'''June 9, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom
 +
* McQ: message to guide the community got no public reactions so far
 +
* Dani: bug reports needed for JDT, do we have PMC agreement?
 +
** Alex: For me that was approved after jdt-dev vote ended
 +
** AGREED
 +
* Dani: RC2 done, no major bug so far but still monitoriing for regressions
 +
* Alex: 4.17 stream open, not finished until 4.16 if final so all apichecks and etc. are in proper shape
 +
* Tom: OSGi R8 merge after stabilizing 4.17 stream
 +
* Tom: OSGi Move to Java 8 right after that
 +
* Dani: Switch to Java 11 as min version as it was already announced to happen in 4.17 stream shortly
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''June 2, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom
 +
* Inactive committer clean up for Eclipse project for the 4.16 release started via {{bug|563720}}
 +
* Infrastructure is really slow for RC2 release
 +
* RC2 bug queue is really low, one restart issue which is currently under investigated by Tom
 +
* Discussion about the JDT cleanup e-mails
 +
** Need to ensure community discussions are positive and respectful.
 +
** Expectations here should come from leadership
 +
*** LibreOffice did this in the past to great success.
 +
** Committers can vote against bugs but the tone of the discussion is important.
 +
** PMC will respond via the public mailing list within a week
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''May 26, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ
 +
* Closed all M3 bugs; RC1 looking good
 +
* Tips&tricks, new&noteworthy, contributions to the newsletter in progress
 +
* Chromium integration CQ approved -- https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21808
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''May 19, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex
 +
* Dani: Issues with the build infrastructure, might endanger M3, the team got a working build for testing
 +
* Dani: PowerPC hardware was donated so builds are starting again for it
 +
* Alex: CQ process might get simpler based on blog post from Wayne, Alex to test and validate with Wayne https://blogs.eclipse.org/post/wayne-beaton/revising-eclipse-ip-due-diligence-process-third-party-content
 +
* Lars: Question if we want to allow "EGit" commit style in Eclipse top-level project. Agreement was to allow it but not to recommend it or enforce it
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''May 12, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex
 +
* Update to themes
 +
** Preference being added for choosing square vs round tabs
 +
** Intern from Alex's team is taking up the work
 +
** Update to Windows theme to be Windows 10
 +
* Alex brings up changes to CQ requirements.  Need to read up on Wayne's post about this and discuss in a future call if we can change how the project does CQs
 +
* Who is running dark theme?
 +
** Need someone to cover test of Dark Theme on Linux.  Lars indicated that he runs with Linux Dark Theme and can help in coverage
 +
** Dani described the various members of his team that cover the rest of the platforms
 +
* Request to contribute to article on what is new in the release for a June newsletter.  Lars to contribute improvements in the Dark theme.  General request to others to contribute anything else.
 +
* ppc64le build troubles
 +
** Been having ongoing issues with the university hosted ppc64le machine we use to build support for ppc64le
 +
** Currently the ppc64le build has been disabled
 +
** Need to find alternatives
 +
*** May be able to use something from IBM public cloud
 +
*** Other suggestions: McQ - look towards using emulation, Alex - could do cross-compilation
 +
** Need to plan if ppc 10 will supported in the future
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''May 5, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, Lars, McQ, Tom
 +
 
 +
* M2 shipped on time
 +
** Dark theme rebuild for M2 due to severe issue
 +
* ICU4J removal note sent
 +
** Lars - 2 years notice period needed?
 +
** Agreement: it's needed as we expose it in API and still have usages in internals so we need time to clean up ourself
 +
** EPPs cleanup - some blocked by JDT still using it, some by WTP, Rust probably the first one to be icu4j clean
 +
* Roundes vs square ctabfolder
 +
** Number of themes to be reduced
 +
** Performance not being measurable
 +
** Agreement: add preference to switch the rounded vs
 +
** Agreement: when preference is available Square is default
 +
* Windows theme update -
 +
** Fix colors to match Windows 10
 +
** GTK looks way more sane as more effort has been invested to keep it current
 +
** Don't set colors but use the colors from the OS theme is the recipe
 +
** Ugly white line on windows dark theme needs bugzilla open
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''April 28, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, Lars
 +
 
 +
* PMC decided that the OS specific themes should be removed, https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=562227
 +
* Windows light theme should become better https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=551462
 +
* Dani - This week is M2, no special freeze or testing but we will contribute our build from Friday to the simrel
 +
* Databinding analyis was done by Jens Lindstroem and it looks good for an API compliant solution
 +
* Alex will prepare the information for cross that we will drop ibm icu from the SDK build
 +
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''April 21, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars
'''May 20:''' - McQ, Martin
+
* Q: How do we deal with ICU removal from data binding?
* PC Lead: John A suggested to represent Eclipse
+
** Need to follow standard API removal rules
* Linux: New Launchers built, didn't start on Linux ... I-build was broken, want to know why
+
*** Deprecate old API and offer new API
 +
*** Remove deprecated API after 2 years
 +
** Can we put the old stuff in a fragment that could be removed?
 +
* Theming: rounded tabs versus square tabs ({{bug|562221}})
 +
** Should we offer it at all?
 +
** Alex: Don’t increase the number of themes or options
 +
** Lars: Square tabs are faster
 +
** If speed is significant, we should consider changing the default
  
<hr/>
 
'''May 13:''' - McQ, Martin, Jeff, Steve, Philippe
 
* {{bug|273660}} Common Navigator: Pipelining issues with JDT + CDT
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''April 14, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars
'''May 6:''' - McQ, Martin, Jeff
+
* Dani
* McQ PDE Feature Request
+
** M1 shipped, no problems so far
** New Target Platform came in late
+
** Using ECJ from M1 to build the SDK has some issues, there are people working on it
** PMC agrees with trying to fix this, but want to see the final patch before +1
+
** 4.16 plan to be published this week
* McQ Testplan
+
* Unanimous decision to continue to use Zoom as usual
** People going to test their own because test plan is too complex
+
* Jeff Splash Screen
+
  
  
<hr/>
+
'''April 7, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars
'''Apr 29:''' - McQ, Martin, Steve
+
* Dani
* Martin: Java6 ref platform - anything between 6u3 and 6u10 (exclusive) was broken, anything after 6u10 (inclusive) has license issues in [http://java.sun.com/javase/6/javase-6-thirdpartyreadme.txt thirdpartylicensereadme.txt].
+
** Created [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_16.xml 4.16 plan]
** Suggestion: Dont update the plan document yet, but start running tests with 6u13 on Linux. '''AI McQ''' talk to Kim about this.
+
** Created [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=561643 release record for 4.16]. Corresponding bug is {{bug|561643}}
** '''AI Martin''' make a final attempt to get more info out of Sun.
+
** Sent note to add planning bugs for 4.16
* Steve: Solaris x86 - looks good but some problems with X server
+
** '''Please review and provide feedback if any'''
* McQ: API Deprecation Policy {{bug|261544}} - '''AI McQ''' synthesise some summary and comment on the bug
+
** After some infrastructure issues we have a good test build and currently things look good for M1 this week
* M7: Testers found some interesting prolbems with launching Eclipse from Eclipse (depending on VM, BIDI chars in paths dont work)
+
* Alex seconded the infrastructure issues and missing test results
 +
* ICU4J ({{bug|560312}}): we decided to remove it piece by piece from projects where possible and where someone is interested to do it. The ICU bundle itself will stay, and we will follow the API removal process when we are ready to remove it, i.e. no usage in the SDK anymore
  
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 31, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, McQ, Tom, Lars
'''Apr 22:''' - McQ, Martin, Steve, Philippe
+
* Dani: Contacted the ICU4J owner. He updated {{bug|560312}}, PMC members will review the comment and we will discuss next week
* Steve: Solaris x86 - got a Browser running, looking good,  
+
* Dani: Planning bugs are created slowly for 4.16. Will send a reminder to the list to submit more. Started to work on plan and release record.
* Steve: Cocoa Sheets - new API - Dialogs associated with a Window: Dialog slides down from title bar
+
** Clients need to opt in through new API because they need to specify a dialog as being adequate for sheet support
+
* Martin: Maintenance builds post SR2
+
** experience in the past has shown only very few, surgically isolated patches so the problem is probably smaller than anticipated
+
** don't want anything produced to appear official -- anything that appears official MUST result in a test pass and this must be avoided
+
** it makes sense to talk about this in the context of "Release Train" and not only "Eclipse Platform" -- Martin filed {{bug|273262}} against the AC
+
* Martin has some update on Sun Java 6 -- will update {{bug|261724}}
+
  
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 24, 2020''' - Alex, McQ, Tom
'''Apr 15:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, Steve
+
* Dani: Regrets for the call (Eclipse Board call)
* McQ: '''Solaris x86''' - OK if we get the machine up and running until Friday, too late for swapping reference platform otherways
+
* Alex: status updates
* '''Polish List''' [[Polish3.5]] - Some developers don't have time for polish items. For now, it's just a list such that we *know* what's coming up.
+
** JDT merged Java 14 in master
** Martin wondering why we need a separate wiki page, bugzilla query should be enough?
+
** Build instability due to infra status
** Who owns the Polish list - Eclipse Project Committers. We capture items that we find "stupid" when using Eclipse ourselves.
+
* Alex: OSGi R8 modules support - what is it?
* '''Maintenance builds after 3.4'''
+
** Tom: ability to represent external content in the OSGi framework
** IBM will never consume any community builds: want the absolute minimum of required fixes
+
** Alex: Will it allow shipping eclipse plugins as JPMS modules to ease native library handling?
** If a fix shows up in any IBM product, then it is on a bug somewhere
+
** Tom: Haven't found any clear example how JPMS handles this, so good example is needed before could be looked further.
** But fixes are never cumulative
+
** Martin thinks that a first step would be well-defined markup of such "released-to-product" fixes.
+
** Another next step is allowing Eclipse builds by the Community -- we can do anything that's not making Kim's life harder.
+
** How to proceed with communications: open bugs, bugzilla discussions.
+
  
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 17, 2020''' - Alex, McQ, Lars Tom, Dani
'''Apr 1:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, Steve, Philippe
+
* ICU4J use still under discussion
* McQ: Solaris x86 (recommend building since Sun helped at Eclipsecon), Perf results (not trustworthy on Windows?)
+
** Dani still to contact ICU4J owner
* Martin: M-builds beyond 3.4.2
+
* Shipping Java 14 and 4.15 this week
** Two problems: (a) provide a build system that the community can use, and (b) provide a platform for accumulating fixes easily without risking version collisions etc
+
* Java 14 work will be merged to master on Wednesday
*** The risk of (b) is high that as a result we'd have some low-quality sea of incompatible fixes. We better don't go with this.
+
** Other solution is allow to cherry-pick on source level - just provide a new target milestone in bugzilla, product builders cherry-pick patches they want to apply and do so locally.
+
* Jeff: OSGi tooling; future plans around build
+
** We need to run builds ourselves (see also above) - e.g. equinox sdk feature is in some internal repository
+
** PDE build has stretched pretty far over time.. what to do with it
+
*** Needs to be one of the main plan items for 3.6, but don't want to wait that long
+
*** SAP perhaps to help out with staffing
+
* Boris to host the arch call since Steve, McQ, Philippe all cannot join
+
  
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 10, 2020''' - Lars, Tom
'''Mar 18:''' - McQ, Steve, Martin
+
* Dani: Regrets for the call (vacation)
* no arch next week due to EclipseCon
+
* ICU4J use still under discussion
* McQ found a performance test that is 8000% slower
+
** if we can be confident that performance and language support are of *similar* quality, we should work towards removing icu4j because it reduces complexity for us, in addition allowing for smaller RCP apps
** teams are overwhelmed (but remind them to check performance tests)
+
** note that we already have mixed usage -- some components using icu4j and some not
* Martin reminded us about use of [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg00575.html Parallel IP for Mature Projects] and JSch-0.1.41
+
* to clarify approvals that require a project lead can be done by a project lead for any of the Eclipse Project subprojects
** need to identify uses on the download links (or also inside the downloads?)
+
** as usual, the project lead should take care to understand the change and its implications before approving
** EMO has not developed the policy yet
+
* we will move to Jetty 10 (and thus to Java 11) for the fall release
** McQ: "Q: Should we just not use the mechanism?"
+
* RH will be leading releng for 4.16
** Downstream consumers may need to test against new lib features early. Just for test and experimentation, not for consumption: want parallel IP in I-builds
+
** McQ: Milestones are a corner case -- some consumers use these in products!
+
** Parallel IP is a tool for projects who want it. A clear policy is one thing. Guidelines for projects to adopt it or not is another thing -- may depend on the number and kind of consumers.
+
** Result: Martin to Bring up that topic on the [[Architecture Council/Meetings/March 22 F2F EclipseCon 2009]],
+
*** Example issues: can't put it in for I-build and remove for Milestone S-build
+
  
<hr />
 
  
'''Mar 11:''' - McQ, Steve, Jeff, Martin
+
'''March 3, 2020''' - no meeting
* Martin - '''{{bug|227055}} and late API additions'''
+
** McQ: after m6 is too late if it has any downstream impact (changing behavior, deleting things, ...). Plain API additions may slip a week.
+
** Steve: If new API has effect on performance and polish, may look more favorably.
+
** If going in after M6, it needs to go through the process (e-mail and public discussion on eclipse-pmc list).
+
** Strict API Tooling checks to be enabled next week
+
* McQ - '''state of M6'''; some late UI things to review
+
** Some low-risk polish Cocoa items for Eclipsecon (enablers)
+
** Still changes in p2 (after m6), but stabilizing
+
* Martin/Jeff - '''New Target Platform Page''' may require more tweaking - risk of breaking community workflows!
+
** E.g. adding a directory to the target platform; Jeff uses target platforms a lot, so he's likely more exposed than most of the Community... 10 to 15 locations with hundreds of bundles...
+
** Related to the {{bug|224145}} p2 "extension location" problem which broke user workflows. Don't want to have such breakage again.
+
* Jeff - '''Status on Galileo Must do's''' - deferred to next week
+
* McQ - '''p2 OSGi OBR Repositories'''
+
** Jeff: OSGi wants to foster bundle store / bundle repositories, and specify a repository standard (long-standing RFE112 never been ratified)
+
** Similar to p2, but does have some potential issues
+
** Ideally, Equinox would be the reference impl of whatever standard comes up... but got a staffing problem, how to get the solution standardized that we need.
+
*** Writing a p2 OBR repository adapter is not hard, but OBR repos won't be able to eat p2 metadata
+
** p2 doesn't care about XML format whereas OBR specifies the XML. p2 got more sophisticated API model. Jeff doesn't have access to the latest spec.
+
* Steve wants Eclipsecon demos to be done on '''Cocoa''', will expedite any bugfixes (please do file them!). Jeff needs browser integration.
+
  
<hr/>
 
  
'''Mar 4:''' - McQ, Steve, Jeff, Philippe, Martin
+
'''February 25, 2020''' - Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex
 +
* Dani: Created and sent Endgame plan
 +
* Dani: Submitted IP Log: https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21716
 +
* Alex: SWT on Linux in 4.16 to require Gtk 3.20 to simplify CSS machinery and prep for GTK4
 +
* Alex: ICU4J removal
 +
** Dani: ICU4J reacts faster to changes and supports more features (new Japanese era)
 +
** Alex: It might but Eclipse fails at keeping up so current version shipped with Eclipse misses features that the JVM supports (latest CLDR)
 +
** Dani: Asks for a proof that JVM is better that ICU
 +
** Alex: Which metrics to be measured?
 +
** Dani: Will check with ICU guy about that and whether it's still needed
  
* Upgrade 3.4 -> 3.5
 
** Will we be able to support this in p2?
 
*** Nope, needed hooks already in previous release (ie. needed them in 3.4 to be used by 3.5)
 
** Problems include replacing the Eclipse .exe
 
** Is this an important use case?  There is no band width to solve this problem in 3.5
 
** it's a good showcase for p2 technology
 
** idea: put in the low level hooks for 3.5.1 and use them next time (ie. 3.5 -> 3.6)
 
** Did Update Manager ever do this?
 
*** Jeff: It does not
 
  
* Deprecating Mac carbon?
+
'''February 18, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom
** Apple claims Cocoa is the future
+
* Dani: need to work on IP Log, Release Review and Endgame Plan
** 3.5 will be the last version of Eclipse where Carbon is under active development
+
* Lars: ECF - will we update to the latest
*** But will maintain for 3.6 and 3.7
+
** Alex: is in the works. Scott needs to provide us with the update
** Q: Has Apple officially deprecated carbon?
+
* Tom: Found an issue with JUnit 5 launching but not reproducible with latest I-build
*** No but they have down played it (ie. no 64-bit support for carbon)
+
** Dani: File a bug if you have steps or contact Noopur directly
** Should there be an official deprecation policy for platforms?
+
* Dani: Update on X-builds and tags
  
<hr/>
 
  
'''Feb 25:''' - McQ, Steve, Martin, Philippe
+
'''February 11, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom
 +
* Alex: Infrastructure is very instable, how can be complain to the foundation?
 +
** Alex: Eclipse foundation server team not responding to complains and seem unclear about the source of the issue
 +
** Discussion about makes a stronger statement to the foundation about the bad state of the infrastructure
 +
** McQ: Suggestion to send a note as PMC to the foundation
 +
** Dani: First we should ask webmaster why this takes so long
 +
** Alex: Marketplace infrastructure is also in bad state
 +
*** Dead marketplace entries are not getting removed https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=550713
 +
*** No clean contact person from the foundation
 +
*** Marketplace is also not Open Source hence we cannot fix thing ourself.
  
* AC "committers should know" mail
+
-> Alex to contact Denis and to cc the other PMC members
** '''Following external links''' McQ why not introduce some Javascript on the server that warns users automatically when they follow an external link?
+
** Components to projects flattening (not on our plate at the time)
+
* Steve Target milestones for Eclipse project
+
* BZ patches to be flagged when they contain API
+
* '''N-builds broken''' over the weekend (again) - 3 weekends in a row - no people currently who are willing to work during the weekend
+
** Hudson might help eventually, for now using e4 builds as the guinea pig
+
* '''UI Forms has no committers''' - opportunity for Community to become committer
+
** migrate off (using internal browser instead)
+
** no critical bugs, less than 125 interesting bugs
+
** long-term future is e4 with css/styling and declarative ui
+
* '''Performance:''' No news (not yet while closing down API)
+
** Philippe thinks that the performance milestone must be earlier since performance might touch on API. We're losing memory because rebasing
+
** McQ - this cycle we had a performance run in M2, this year we're in a better position than last year
+
  
'''Feb 18:''' - no meeting
+
'''February 4, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Tom
 +
* OSGi Spec talk
 +
** OSGi R8 Core will be done this year.
 +
** May be ready for 4.16, but no rush if it slips to 4.17
 +
** Will not put anything in master until spec is final which makes it more likely to be 4.17
  
'''Feb 11:'''
 
  
'''Feb 4:'''
+
'''January 28, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars
 +
* Ongoing saga of the EPP packages
 +
** Markus did it last week
 +
** PMC discussed possible futures here, but no conclusions
 +
** Discussion also happening at the board level
 +
* M2 is this week
 +
* Pushing for JUnit updates for M2
  
<hr/>
 
  
'''Jan 28:'''
+
'''January 21, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, Lars
 +
* Dani: EPP builds still missing, Dani contacted Markus Knauer to update EPP for M1, release train is at risk if nobody steps up
 +
* New test failures are investigated, action plan is to restart the test, if they still fails restart the machine and if the tests still fail, see if a revert fixes the test
  
* Java 6
 
** move reference platform to Sun 6u11
 
*** problem(?): Sun added 3 new items added that are licensed LGPL or GPL
 
*** [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] Martin added comment to {{bug|261724}} to identify this issue
 
* ICU 4.0
 
** we will stay with 4.0
 
* Deprecation Policy
 
** still under discussion, {{bug|261544}}
 
* Use of internal provisional
 
** seems to be some consensus about *not* requiring this, {{bug|261874}}
 
* JDT co-leadership
 
** what is the process?
 
*** Jeff: vote in community; then propose to the PMC
 
*** Would like to get Dani Meghert involved.
 
*** Philippe will check development process documents
 
* Cocoa port
 
** Looking good
 
** Taking early access off and making it the "first" choice for Mac downloads
 
* Milestone progress / 3.4.2
 
** Need to discuss M5 in arch call (should have done this last week)
 
** Should always remind the team in the arch call of upcoming deadlines
 
** Performance issues that need API to fix have to happen by M6
 
*** Teams should understand performance results (will be discussed in a couple of weeks)
 
* Re: Reference Platforms
 
** Java6 on Solaris
 
*** Martin's company would like to support this
 
*** [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] filed {{bug|262907}} to discuss process and practices around reference platforms
 
  
'''Jan 21:'''
+
'''January 14, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom
 +
* Dani: Switch to SUSE Enterprise 15, team is in favor to drop 12
 +
* Dani: Plan updated to remove Windows 7
 +
* Alex: Felix Dependencies for SCR done
 +
** confirm fix for {{bug|544571}}
 +
** releng disruptions during update, but recovered.  More disruptions expected as we update dependencies for March release.
 +
** broken builds, need to get a list of issues.  Seems to be more infrastructure issues.  Need to report back to the foundation. Example, the signing issue that broken the respin.
 +
* Some discussion about gitlab option at foundation. {{bug|537913}}
 +
** What happens to gerrit work flow for review?
 +
** Would dropping bugzilla happen or can we migrate all issues?
 +
** Without migration it is a no-go for us
 +
** Currently no plans to move Eclipse project to gitlab at this time.
  
* How should we track meeting minutes topic - Wiki
 
* Provisional API conventions - Jeff working on {{bug|261874}} for discussion at the AC
 
** should there be a tag in the Javadoc (ie. "experimental")?
 
** Jeff wants to keep the concerns "conventions" vs "Javadoc" separate
 
** Jeff, "... Javadoc should not be generated for provisional ..."
 
** Martin disagrees, "... need feedback and discussion for new API ..."
 
* What is the '''role of the PMC lead?'''
 
** global view of components/processes
 
** organize architecture call, ensure we are on track
 
** spark conversations (ie. M5 is feature freeze)
 
* '''Reference platforms'''
 
** we should choose JDK1.6, "update 11" rather than "update 4"
 
** around "RC time", solidify the reference platform (it is the one we are testing on)
 
  
'''Jan 14:'''
+
'''January 7, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars
 +
* Dani: Created initial 4.15 plan - please have a look
 +
* Dani: Created release record for 4.15
 +
* Dani: Sent a note to teams to create their 4.15 plan items/bugs
 +
* Dani: Do we want to drop support for Windows 7 (remove from Target Environments only)
 +
** Unanimous decision: Yes
 +
* Dani: Discuss (again, see below) resolution for stale bugs
 +
** We want to ask the webmaster that stale bugs are directly closed. ACTION ITEM for Lars
 +
** We will only auto/mass close existing stale bugs with notification turned off
 +
* Change rules about x-internal exports ({{bug|553709}})
 +
** Decision:
 +
** - Newly added internal packages should not use x-internal exports unless there are very good reasons
 +
** - For existing packages the x-internal export can be removed with PMC approval
  
* PMC component ownership x bugzilla pmc authorization
+
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2019 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2019]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2018 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2018]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2017 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2017]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Latest revision as of 07:37, 23 September 2021

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

September 22 - McQ, Tom, Lars, Alex, Jay

  • bug 565913 - Should the provisional APIs be allowed or rejected?
    • McQ: Is this on the path to becoming an API?
    • Tom: The package being discussed - Is this clearly isolated or are there other stuff in there. If latter, they probably shouldn't be promoted as API.
    • Jay: The packages, even if provisional for now, should not change in future if they are to become API.

--> Resolution: Fine to have it as provitional API but we should work on the correct set of packages

  • Mass Cleanup changes after M1 in JDT?
    • Jay: Depends on how "mass clean up change" is defined. Any tool driven change should definitely be restricted to M1 but open to taking up other reasonably small hand-made changes post M1.
  • Github move proposal - All to go over Alex's doc and provide feedback.
  • CVS - Still waiting for feedback from all quarters. There may be an interest in keeping it alive.
    • Alex: Whoever interested, we can make him/her the owner of the component and entrust with the ownership.
  • Eclipse 20 year anniversary!


September 15 - Tom, Lars, Alex, Jay

  • Java 17 is released in master. Marketplace is available for installing on 4.21 GA.
  • Java LTS will come out every 2 years, a proposal at the moment. Shouldn’t be much impact because we already dealing with 6 month releases.
  • Security Manager deprecation
    • Much discussion about the impact of removal of AccessController
    • A need for feedback from Eclipse to the JEP to voice our concerns that removing the doPriv methods will be very disruptive for the community
  • Windows 11 testing
    • Foundation says if we want additional Windows machine we need to find additional sponsors.
    • Windows 11 is initially auto-upgrade for small set and then go up from there.
    • We anticipate testing Windows 11 in our build in one year from now.
  • Github move - Will wait for all of us all to go though the doc Alex sent us.
  • CVS - will we take it with us to GitHub. December release is the last one we provide CVS support? (Alex sent a note on this)


June 16, 2021 - Alex, Lars, Tom

  • JDT Java 11
    • From PMC perspective - Project should be free to only support the latest version of most any dependency without requiring PMC approval.
    • The group of committers available on the project is not enough to continue to maintain old versions of dependencies indefinitely.
    • Announcement from the project leadership to the community should be done to solicit feedback and additional support from new contributors/committers if the community wants to maintain support for old stuff. If nobody shows up to help then we have no choice but to drop support for old versions of dependencies.
  • Continued discussion for need of a new PMC member
    • Still feeling the void after losing Dani
    • Additional leadership is needed to drive concerns in the JDT project
  • Ongoing discussion about behavior needed to grow the community [Edits by McQ]
    • Need to focus on improving process so contributions are merged in a timely fashion
    • Need to make sure that there are clear and reasonable requirements for contributions, and that the community is aware of them.


May 19, 2021 - Alex, Lars, McQ, Tom

  • Using built in Java JAR signing support now
  • Yearly process initiated for retiring inactive committers


May 12, 2021 - McQ, Tom

  • Meeting cut short
  • Need to find a new time for PMC call
    • regular conflicts for planning council and board meetings


April 28, 2021 - Tom, Alex

  • Mac M1 changes are in to move to aarch64
  • Discussed progress on Jar signing issue for Java 16
    • Progress being made but will require some change in behavior of the Equinox SignedContent API
    • Will result in deprecation of at least one method
    • Working towards M3 solution.
  • Discussed move to PGP verification as alternative to signed JAR verification to p2
    • Progress being made there, hopefully get something for M3


Mar 31, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars

  • Java 16 jar signing issue
    • Tom wants to replace equinox implementation with builtin Jar file implementation so changes don't have to be done in Equinox on each release
  • JSP/Jetty story in IDE
    • Do we still need same functionality?
    • Alex - get out of the business for help system. Dependencies (jetty, lucene) generate more releng work than we can handle.
    • McQ - url for plugin help would be simplest and open it in browser
    • Any change (e.g. JSP removal) has to go through standard deprecation period, announcements and etc.
    • Alex to initiate communication on longer term plan with Holger who works on improvements to help system lately


Mar 31, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex

  • PMC call time
    • Overlaps with Planning council call and both Tom and Alex can't make both

-> Decision: Skip PMC call every first Wed of the month

  • Webpage Hugo migration
    • Recommended by Eclipse Foundation and active contributor to do the conversion
    • Concerns about mixing old and new content are raised but they don't look severe
    • Supported by PMC

-> Tom to handle initial communication on behalf of PMC

  • Planning process relevance
    • the planning process is not providing the detailed and usable plans from the past
    • not a pain point as fewer people participate it but looks like useless exercise quite often
    • to be discussed....


Mar 24, 2021 - Tom, Alex, Lars

  • Pack 200 - API removal in 2 years - 2023-06
    • Should we turn off all pack 200 features in one year, make it consistent across all Java versions.
    • 2022-06 - disable pack200 for all Java versions. Calling the deprecated API will be a no-op
  • Pack 200 - When can we stop generating? Agreed on 2021-09 release. We should set the precedence as early as possible to stop producing pack200 artifacts.
  • split packages
    • Causing issues with mandatory directive and p2 bug 360659 and with tycho.
    • Currently tycho requires some work arounds for usage of split packages
    • Can we work to get rid of split packages. We agreed to investigate the work and move to combine split packages if possible.


Mar 17, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars

  • SWT Chromium support
    • Still no recent version of Chromium with security patches
    • Will be dropped in M1 (if no recent version is provided in the next weeks or if no one steps up)
  • Pack 2000 support
    • not supported anymore as of Java 14
    • will be deprecated and marked for removal
  • Moving Eclipse repos to Github
    • Moving to Github might simplify and therefore increase contributions
    • Huge amount of work in releng
    • Potentially we should all subprojects at the same time
    • We check if the foundation plans to move everything to Gitlab


Mar 10, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex

  • Moving to Jetty 10 for next release
  • platform-dev discussion about move to GitHub
    • conversation is useful, but would take a lot of planning
    • lots of current rel eng dependencies on Gerrit
      • need more community help for rel eng issues
    • a massive amount of history in our Bugzilla
  • release record and proto-plan created for 4.20


Febr 17, 2021 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • Looks good for 4.19 release
  • Mac ARM has to wait for the 4.20 release, as the team fights multiple issues
  • Top-level project page can currently only be edited by Tom, other PMC members also have access to it https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/eclipse/who


Dec 15, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • 06. January 2021 is the next meeting
  • How can PMC increase the awareness of the project leads / committers?
    • Maybe invite the project leads once per month to the PMC meeting?
    • Discussion how we can increase the JDT community


Dec 01, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • RC1 is out; final touches on RC2
  • How can we remove the confusion about "e4" project?
    • e4 has always been intended to be a sandbox project where people could try things that are experimental or are on a longer timeline
    • Should be renamed to make it clear this isn't about leftovers from the Eclipse 4.0 work (maybe "eNext"?)
    • Should clean up repos
      • Remove repos that just hold code that has already moved to the platform
      • Remove repos that are no longer getting any investment
      • Work toward moving things that are active/useful into the platform (e.g. "spies" to PDE)

Nov 24, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • PMC is considering the potential of an SDK / IDE working group at the foundation
  • Discussion Do we need the extra releng work to create p2 repositories for milestones?
    • Lot of extra work and sometimes goes wrong
    • All I-Builds are anyway available

-> PMC decided to drop the additional p2 repository -> Alex will be sending out an email about it to inform potential users of the special p2 repos

    • Discussion about the purpose of the milestone week at all

-> Decision not to change the process for now, as the additional testing and focus has also some benefits


Nov 17, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Release 4.18 winding down
    • SWT churn for Linux and Mac Big Sur
    • Does not appear the Foundation got the new Mac Hardware for testing
  • Planning Council discussion
    • Dani filled the Eclipse TLP representation role on the Council
    • Alex can take the lead to that role
    • Alex will look to find a replacement for the tools TLP representative


Nov 10, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Still dealing with the loss of Dani
  • Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
  • Stabilizing for M3
  • Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
  • Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency


Nov 10, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Still dealing with the loss of Dani
  • Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
  • Stabilizing for M3
  • Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
  • Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency


Nov 3, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Dani!


Oct 27, 2020 - Lars, Tom

  • Nothing to discuss


Oct 20, 2020 - Lars, Tom, McQ, Alex

  • EclipseCon is running virtual this week
  • Agreement that removal of API should only before M1 release
  • Proof of concept for using Java 11 http client instead of ECF should be done
  • if we remove ECF we should send out an announcement and keep it for at least one release
  • Decision to start using the @Deprecated(since = "x.y.z", forRemoval = true) for planned API removals if the bundle can use Java 11, wiki for API removal should be updated

Oct 6, 2020 - Dani, Tom, McQ, Alex

  • M1 under control
  • Release train materials being worked
  • Moved to Jetty 9.4.32
  • ECF — need to simplify how we consume http client
    • could use Java11 http client instead, but this would require significant development effort
    • Tom/Alex to take an initial stab at understanding scope + open bugs
  • Proposal: remove API once a year
    • Given the already long time for consumers to respond to API deprecation, PMC decision was to continue to allow API removal in any release. It was felt that the incremental benefit was outweighed by the need to be able to move forward quickly.


Sep 15, 2020 - Dani, Tom, Lars, Alex

  • M1
    • Next week M1 - Alex to send reminder note
    • Holiday in India on this Friday
  • Y-Build for Java 16
    • Builds should be fixed and can continue to progress on Java 16
  • SCR upgrade
    • Some issues with EBR maven plugin
    • causes versions to be incorrectly represented in p2 meta-data
    • Orbit needs a new lead, will end up impacting us if no replacement found
  • Tycho being updated to be able to OSGi-fy JARs if they are not there yet.
    • How to use this for a feature?
    • Behaves much like Orbit to produce new versions of the artifact.
    • Could be the solution for Orbit needs.


Sep 22, 2020 - no meeting


Sep 15, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Lars, Tom, Alex

  • Dani: Java 15 released today
    • 4.17 release together with Marketplace for Java 15 support are ready
    • JDT Java 15 to be merged this week
  • Dani: Zoom call with password unless each of the PMC members can be added as meeting owner so can start the meeting
  • Alex: 4.18 stream opened and releng work calmed down
  • Lars: Cleanup of migration guides
    • Dani: this will break existing links, so existing content have to stay unless someone does all the work to fix our plans and other links that will break
    • McQ: help system needs work to focus on the latest stuff/release, what should we do to achieve it? How can we better shape the help system now that having all content ofline is not a requirement?
    • Alex: do not ship migration, n&n,etc. but rather point to website url from help system
    • Alex: this would also reduce manual work for releng (+1 by Dani)
    • ACTION ITEM: Alex to work on n&n in help system to use the website content directly as a proof of concept for further work


Sep 01, 2020 - Lars, Alex

  • RC1 is fine, no additional requests for RC2


August 25, 2020 - Tom, Lars, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: sent out Endgame plan, RC1 this week, vacation starting on Friday
  • Alex informed about Red Hat's Releng participation


August 18, 2020 - Tom, Lars, Dani

  • Dani to create and send out Endgame plan
  • Looking into Mac Big Sur launching issue (bug 565913)


August 11, 2020 - Alex, Dani, Tom, McQ

  • Eclipse Foundation is getting access to an Apple Silicon dev kit
    • Will make it available to SWT devs via cloud connectivity
  • M3 next week; RC1 following week
  • ARM64 port seems to be working fine, except for browser widget (still investigating)


August 4, 2020 - Alex, Lars, Dani

  • no topics to discuss


July 28, 2020 - Tom, McQ

  • no topics to discuss


July 21, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars

  • no topics to discuss
  • Alex on vacation next week


July 14, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars

  • Project status
    • M1 shipped last week
    • Draft Plan for 4.17 posted - additional fixes done after review
    • Release record created for 4.17
  • CQ process discussion - new clearly defined process
    • Note sent to Wayne to get clarifications on handbook, Wayne has made some edits in response. We need to review latest handbook
    • Should simplify IP clearance for third party libraries
      • If a bundle is approved by clearly defined it can be added with no CQ as long as the mavin URLs/coordinates are vetted by clearly defined
      • Orbit should soon automate the linking to clearly defined approvals for bundles added. Currently a work in progress by Roland at Orbit.
      • The ratings system at clearly defined is not used. Only the license check is used.
    • PMC needs to review latest handbook on the topic ... As of now we should move forward with the new process
      • If concerns arise later we will need to take actions to correct
  • bug 565066 - Needs some attention to the solution and testing
    • attempt to make incremental installation be consistent with resolution of a fresh install (or -clean).


June 23, 2020 - no call

June 16, 2020 - no call

June 9, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom

  • McQ: message to guide the community got no public reactions so far
  • Dani: bug reports needed for JDT, do we have PMC agreement?
    • Alex: For me that was approved after jdt-dev vote ended
    • AGREED
  • Dani: RC2 done, no major bug so far but still monitoriing for regressions
  • Alex: 4.17 stream open, not finished until 4.16 if final so all apichecks and etc. are in proper shape
  • Tom: OSGi R8 merge after stabilizing 4.17 stream
  • Tom: OSGi Move to Java 8 right after that
  • Dani: Switch to Java 11 as min version as it was already announced to happen in 4.17 stream shortly


June 2, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom

  • Inactive committer clean up for Eclipse project for the 4.16 release started via bug 563720
  • Infrastructure is really slow for RC2 release
  • RC2 bug queue is really low, one restart issue which is currently under investigated by Tom
  • Discussion about the JDT cleanup e-mails
    • Need to ensure community discussions are positive and respectful.
    • Expectations here should come from leadership
      • LibreOffice did this in the past to great success.
    • Committers can vote against bugs but the tone of the discussion is important.
    • PMC will respond via the public mailing list within a week


May 26, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ


May 19, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Dani: Issues with the build infrastructure, might endanger M3, the team got a working build for testing
  • Dani: PowerPC hardware was donated so builds are starting again for it
  • Alex: CQ process might get simpler based on blog post from Wayne, Alex to test and validate with Wayne https://blogs.eclipse.org/post/wayne-beaton/revising-eclipse-ip-due-diligence-process-third-party-content
  • Lars: Question if we want to allow "EGit" commit style in Eclipse top-level project. Agreement was to allow it but not to recommend it or enforce it


May 12, 2020 - Tom, Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex

  • Update to themes
    • Preference being added for choosing square vs round tabs
    • Intern from Alex's team is taking up the work
    • Update to Windows theme to be Windows 10
  • Alex brings up changes to CQ requirements. Need to read up on Wayne's post about this and discuss in a future call if we can change how the project does CQs
  • Who is running dark theme?
    • Need someone to cover test of Dark Theme on Linux. Lars indicated that he runs with Linux Dark Theme and can help in coverage
    • Dani described the various members of his team that cover the rest of the platforms
  • Request to contribute to article on what is new in the release for a June newsletter. Lars to contribute improvements in the Dark theme. General request to others to contribute anything else.
  • ppc64le build troubles
    • Been having ongoing issues with the university hosted ppc64le machine we use to build support for ppc64le
    • Currently the ppc64le build has been disabled
    • Need to find alternatives
      • May be able to use something from IBM public cloud
      • Other suggestions: McQ - look towards using emulation, Alex - could do cross-compilation
    • Need to plan if ppc 10 will supported in the future


May 5, 2020 - Dani, Alex, Lars, McQ, Tom

  • M2 shipped on time
    • Dark theme rebuild for M2 due to severe issue
  • ICU4J removal note sent
    • Lars - 2 years notice period needed?
    • Agreement: it's needed as we expose it in API and still have usages in internals so we need time to clean up ourself
    • EPPs cleanup - some blocked by JDT still using it, some by WTP, Rust probably the first one to be icu4j clean
  • Roundes vs square ctabfolder
    • Number of themes to be reduced
    • Performance not being measurable
    • Agreement: add preference to switch the rounded vs
    • Agreement: when preference is available Square is default
  • Windows theme update -
    • Fix colors to match Windows 10
    • GTK looks way more sane as more effort has been invested to keep it current
    • Don't set colors but use the colors from the OS theme is the recipe
    • Ugly white line on windows dark theme needs bugzilla open


April 28, 2020 - Dani, Alex, Lars


April 21, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • Q: How do we deal with ICU removal from data binding?
    • Need to follow standard API removal rules
      • Deprecate old API and offer new API
      • Remove deprecated API after 2 years
    • Can we put the old stuff in a fragment that could be removed?
  • Theming: rounded tabs versus square tabs (bug 562221)
    • Should we offer it at all?
    • Alex: Don’t increase the number of themes or options
    • Lars: Square tabs are faster
    • If speed is significant, we should consider changing the default


April 14, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • Dani
    • M1 shipped, no problems so far
    • Using ECJ from M1 to build the SDK has some issues, there are people working on it
    • 4.16 plan to be published this week
  • Unanimous decision to continue to use Zoom as usual


April 7, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • Dani
    • Created 4.16 plan
    • Created release record for 4.16. Corresponding bug is bug 561643
    • Sent note to add planning bugs for 4.16
    • Please review and provide feedback if any
    • After some infrastructure issues we have a good test build and currently things look good for M1 this week
  • Alex seconded the infrastructure issues and missing test results
  • ICU4J (bug 560312): we decided to remove it piece by piece from projects where possible and where someone is interested to do it. The ICU bundle itself will stay, and we will follow the API removal process when we are ready to remove it, i.e. no usage in the SDK anymore


March 31, 2020 - Dani, Alex, McQ, Tom, Lars

  • Dani: Contacted the ICU4J owner. He updated bug 560312, PMC members will review the comment and we will discuss next week
  • Dani: Planning bugs are created slowly for 4.16. Will send a reminder to the list to submit more. Started to work on plan and release record.


March 24, 2020 - Alex, McQ, Tom

  • Dani: Regrets for the call (Eclipse Board call)
  • Alex: status updates
    • JDT merged Java 14 in master
    • Build instability due to infra status
  • Alex: OSGi R8 modules support - what is it?
    • Tom: ability to represent external content in the OSGi framework
    • Alex: Will it allow shipping eclipse plugins as JPMS modules to ease native library handling?
    • Tom: Haven't found any clear example how JPMS handles this, so good example is needed before could be looked further.


March 17, 2020 - Alex, McQ, Lars Tom, Dani

  • ICU4J use still under discussion
    • Dani still to contact ICU4J owner
  • Shipping Java 14 and 4.15 this week
  • Java 14 work will be merged to master on Wednesday


March 10, 2020 - Lars, Tom

  • Dani: Regrets for the call (vacation)
  • ICU4J use still under discussion
    • if we can be confident that performance and language support are of *similar* quality, we should work towards removing icu4j because it reduces complexity for us, in addition allowing for smaller RCP apps
    • note that we already have mixed usage -- some components using icu4j and some not
  • to clarify approvals that require a project lead can be done by a project lead for any of the Eclipse Project subprojects
    • as usual, the project lead should take care to understand the change and its implications before approving
  • we will move to Jetty 10 (and thus to Java 11) for the fall release
  • RH will be leading releng for 4.16


March 3, 2020 - no meeting


February 25, 2020 - Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex

  • Dani: Created and sent Endgame plan
  • Dani: Submitted IP Log: https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21716
  • Alex: SWT on Linux in 4.16 to require Gtk 3.20 to simplify CSS machinery and prep for GTK4
  • Alex: ICU4J removal
    • Dani: ICU4J reacts faster to changes and supports more features (new Japanese era)
    • Alex: It might but Eclipse fails at keeping up so current version shipped with Eclipse misses features that the JVM supports (latest CLDR)
    • Dani: Asks for a proof that JVM is better that ICU
    • Alex: Which metrics to be measured?
    • Dani: Will check with ICU guy about that and whether it's still needed


February 18, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom

  • Dani: need to work on IP Log, Release Review and Endgame Plan
  • Lars: ECF - will we update to the latest
    • Alex: is in the works. Scott needs to provide us with the update
  • Tom: Found an issue with JUnit 5 launching but not reproducible with latest I-build
    • Dani: File a bug if you have steps or contact Noopur directly
  • Dani: Update on X-builds and tags


February 11, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom

  • Alex: Infrastructure is very instable, how can be complain to the foundation?
    • Alex: Eclipse foundation server team not responding to complains and seem unclear about the source of the issue
    • Discussion about makes a stronger statement to the foundation about the bad state of the infrastructure
    • McQ: Suggestion to send a note as PMC to the foundation
    • Dani: First we should ask webmaster why this takes so long
    • Alex: Marketplace infrastructure is also in bad state

-> Alex to contact Denis and to cc the other PMC members

February 4, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Tom

  • OSGi Spec talk
    • OSGi R8 Core will be done this year.
    • May be ready for 4.16, but no rush if it slips to 4.17
    • Will not put anything in master until spec is final which makes it more likely to be 4.17


January 28, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars

  • Ongoing saga of the EPP packages
    • Markus did it last week
    • PMC discussed possible futures here, but no conclusions
    • Discussion also happening at the board level
  • M2 is this week
  • Pushing for JUnit updates for M2


January 21, 2020 - Dani, Tom, Lars

  • Dani: EPP builds still missing, Dani contacted Markus Knauer to update EPP for M1, release train is at risk if nobody steps up
  • New test failures are investigated, action plan is to restart the test, if they still fails restart the machine and if the tests still fail, see if a revert fixes the test


January 14, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom

  • Dani: Switch to SUSE Enterprise 15, team is in favor to drop 12
  • Dani: Plan updated to remove Windows 7
  • Alex: Felix Dependencies for SCR done
    • confirm fix for bug 544571
    • releng disruptions during update, but recovered. More disruptions expected as we update dependencies for March release.
    • broken builds, need to get a list of issues. Seems to be more infrastructure issues. Need to report back to the foundation. Example, the signing issue that broken the respin.
  • Some discussion about gitlab option at foundation. bug 537913
    • What happens to gerrit work flow for review?
    • Would dropping bugzilla happen or can we migrate all issues?
    • Without migration it is a no-go for us
    • Currently no plans to move Eclipse project to gitlab at this time.


January 7, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars

  • Dani: Created initial 4.15 plan - please have a look
  • Dani: Created release record for 4.15
  • Dani: Sent a note to teams to create their 4.15 plan items/bugs
  • Dani: Do we want to drop support for Windows 7 (remove from Target Environments only)
    • Unanimous decision: Yes
  • Dani: Discuss (again, see below) resolution for stale bugs
    • We want to ask the webmaster that stale bugs are directly closed. ACTION ITEM for Lars
    • We will only auto/mass close existing stale bugs with notification turned off
  • Change rules about x-internal exports (bug 553709)
    • Decision:
    • - Newly added internal packages should not use x-internal exports unless there are very good reasons
    • - For existing packages the x-internal export can be removed with PMC approval

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