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Difference between revisions of "EMIWG/MembersCall-29-January-2009"

 
(15 intermediate revisions by the same user not shown)
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{{EclipseMobileIWG}}
 
{{EclipseMobileIWG}}
  
==Time==
+
= Meeting Logistics =
 +
 
 +
== Time ==
  
 
{| border="1"
 
{| border="1"
Line 8: Line 10:
 
| Helsinki (Finland) || 6:00:00 PM || UTC+2 hours  
 
| Helsinki (Finland) || 6:00:00 PM || UTC+2 hours  
 
|-
 
|-
| London (U.K.) || 4:00:00 PM || UTC+0 hour  
+
| London (UK) || 4:00:00 PM || UTC+0 hour  
 
|-
 
|-
| San Francisco (U.S.A. - California) || 8:00:00 AM || UTC-8 hours  
+
| San Francisco (USA. - California) || 8:00:00 AM || UTC-8 hours  
 
|-
 
|-
 
| Sao Paulo (Brazil - São Paulo) || 2:00:00 PM || UTC-2 hours
 
| Sao Paulo (Brazil - São Paulo) || 2:00:00 PM || UTC-2 hours
Line 21: Line 23:
 
Toll free:
 
Toll free:
  
* US: 1877 825 8522
+
* US & Canada: 1877 825 8522
 
* UK: 0808 234 7914
 
* UK: 0808 234 7914
 
* Brazil: 0800 891 6634
 
* Brazil: 0800 891 6634
 
* Finland: 0800 11 6433
 
* Finland: 0800 11 6433
 
* Sweden: 020 79 3867 or 020 088 4643
 
* Sweden: 020 79 3867 or 020 088 4643
 +
* More international call-in Numbers, see: [[EMIWG/InternationalDialInNumbers]]
  
 
International Toll Number: US: +1 702 495 1500
 
International Toll Number: US: +1 702 495 1500
Line 31: Line 34:
 
'''Passcode: 9190565826'''  (CHANGED from last meeting!!)
 
'''Passcode: 9190565826'''  (CHANGED from last meeting!!)
  
== Attendees (Tentative) ==
+
== Attendees (Actual) ==
  
* Eclipse Foundation (Ian Skerrett)
+
* Motorola (Dino Brusco, Christian Kurzke, Gustavo Paula, Eric Cloninger)
* Motorola (Dino Brusco, Christian Kurzke, Gustavo, Eric Cloninger)
+
* Nokia (Ronnie King (Carbide.c++), Gorkem Ercan )
* Nokia ([Rich Bartlett], Ronnie King (Carbide.c++) )
+
 
* Craig Setera
 
* Craig Setera
 
* RIM (Ken Wallis (eclipse team lead), Matt Whiteman, Adam Abramski, Cassidy Gentle)
 
* RIM (Ken Wallis (eclipse team lead), Matt Whiteman, Adam Abramski, Cassidy Gentle)
 
* Sony Ericsson (Thomas Westing)
 
* Sony Ericsson (Thomas Westing)
* Intel (Bob Spencer  (OSS technologies, MobLin architect)
+
* Genuitec (Wayne Parrott, Todd Williams) project Firefly
* Genuitec (Wayne Parrott, Maher Masri, Todd Williams) project Firefly
+
* Mark Rogalski (eRCP Project)
+
  
  
(Roll Call)
+
= Proposed Agenda =
  
== Proposed Agenda ==
+
== Roll Call and Review of the Agenda (5 Minutes)==
 
+
=== Review of the Agenda ===
+
 
(anyone have some last minute Agenda items)
 
(anyone have some last minute Agenda items)
  
=== Review of Work since last call ===
 
  
==== Mobile Tools for Java Device Support ====
+
== Dino: Brief Update from the Business Side (10 minutes) ==
 +
 
 +
Brief overview of proposed future Meeting Structure and '''Work Streams'''.
 +
 
 +
=== Clearer separation of topics ===
 +
* Technical work streams
 +
* Business topics
 +
 
 +
 
 +
=== Inclusiveness of non-Java mobile devices ===
 +
 
 +
How to better proceed with:
 +
* Native target development (TML, Tools for Linux, etc)
 +
* Web development
 +
 
 +
=== Member Benefits ===
 +
 
 +
Reminder of Member benefits for upcoming events:
 +
* Joint Marketing
 +
* Voting on
 +
** Deployment requirements and formats (topic discussed later)
 +
** Inclusion on the SDK download portal
 +
 
 +
=== EMIWG Branding ===
 +
 
 +
'''Call for Proposal''' for a "more recognizable" name for EMIWG and MADK.
 +
 
 +
== Review of Ongoing Technical Work Items (35 minutes total) ==
 +
 
 +
Note:
 +
Craig is only available for 1/2 hour, so topics that relate to his work and MTJ are moved to the beginning of the meeting.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
=== Christian/Craig/(Gustavo?): Mobile Tools for Java Device/SDK registration (5 minutes) ===
  
 
There is an ongoing discussion about "Extension Points to register devices", see:
 
There is an ongoing discussion about "Extension Points to register devices", see:
Line 59: Line 89:
  
 
How this relates to the MADK:
 
How this relates to the MADK:
  * The proposed "discovery and download" of vendor SDK's could use this mechanism to register devices which are supported by this SDK.
+
* The proposed "discovery and download" of vendor SDK's could use this mechanism to register devices which are supported by this SDK.
  * Without such a functionality, the MADK has no "official and documented" API to perform this functionality.
+
* Without such a functionality, the MADK has no "official and documented" API to perform this functionality.
  
 
Members of the EMIWG are encouraged to review and participate in this discussion on the MTJ mailing list.
 
Members of the EMIWG are encouraged to review and participate in this discussion on the MTJ mailing list.
 +
 +
Current "favourite" proposal is to use a mechanism similar to JDT JDK registration.
  
 
As a side-note:  This proposed Extension Point will modify the API of MTJ, and has possible impact on a 1.0 release schedule. There is a risk that with current resources in MTJ project this change cannot be included in Galileo train release.
 
As a side-note:  This proposed Extension Point will modify the API of MTJ, and has possible impact on a 1.0 release schedule. There is a risk that with current resources in MTJ project this change cannot be included in Galileo train release.
  
==== Evaluation of alternative Eclipse Packaging mechanisms ====
+
=== Craig Setera: Report on Device Fragmentation proposal (10 minutes) ===
 +
 
 +
Craig to go over his presentation of Device Fragmentation
 +
 
 +
Download slides HERE:  https://opensource.motorola.com/sf/go/doc1363?nav=1
 +
 
 +
Questions: 
 +
* Can this be applicable to "other than Java" developers?
 +
 
 +
 
 +
* Should we create a use/case and comparison matrix?
 +
* Do members have exprience with any of the existing solutions?
 +
** WURFL: http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/index.php
 +
** Mobile Distillery: http://www.mobile-distillery.com/home.htm
 +
** J2ME Polish
 +
 
 +
Mobile Distillery is also now shipping a plug-in to support Netbeans developers.
 +
Anyone has contacts there to see if there is interest to create an Eclipse version?
 +
 
 +
 
 +
 
 +
=== MADK SDK Packaging (15 minutes) ===
 +
 
 +
==== Evaluation of existing Eclipse Packaging mechanisms ====
  
 
Contacted Ian/Doug/Bjorn at the Foundation to find out details about the [http://www.eclipse.org/epp/ Eclipse Packaging Project].
 
Contacted Ian/Doug/Bjorn at the Foundation to find out details about the [http://www.eclipse.org/epp/ Eclipse Packaging Project].
Line 73: Line 128:
 
When further investigating, it seems the EPP project had a different focus, and would actually create packages '''OF''' Eclipse, not '''FOR''' Eclipse.
 
When further investigating, it seems the EPP project had a different focus, and would actually create packages '''OF''' Eclipse, not '''FOR''' Eclipse.
  
Most promising avenue is currently using straight P2 Mechanism, see more at:
+
Most promising avenue is currently using straight P2 Mechanism, see more about general P2 ideas at:
  * http://wiki.eclipse.org/Equinox_p2_UI_Use_Cases
+
* http://wiki.eclipse.org/Equinox_p2_UI_Use_Cases
  * http://wiki.eclipse.org/Equinox_p2_User_Interface  
+
* http://wiki.eclipse.org/Equinox_p2_User_Interface  
  
  
 +
''' Proposal to create a UI Workflow for MADK similar to: http://wiki.eclipse.org/Equinox_p2_UI_3.5_workflows'''
 +
''' Volunteers? '''
  
  
 +
==== Impact of Packaging and Distribution Mechanism on SDK vendors ====
  
=== Road Map Work Items ===
+
Create a list of pro/con of using P2 packaging to distribute SDK.
  
 +
Pro:
 +
* Easy, existing download mechanism and packaging format
 +
* Seamless integration into Eclipse
 +
* Benefit from automatic Update Manager mechanism
  
Evaluate Mobile Device fragmentation topics
+
Con:
 +
* Requires re-package of existing distribution format
 +
** Volunteers to evaluate impact
 +
* May require server side changes?
 +
** How to handle Authentication/log-in on SDK vendor server? (e.g. Motodev user login, Ericsson Developer World, Forum Nokia & others)
  
 +
==== Next Steps for Packaging ====
  
 +
Can we set a deadline for a
 +
* proposal (Packaging & Deployment)
 +
* review (2 weeks)
 +
* vote/decision (members?)
  
  
 +
=== Integration with WTK 3.0 (5 minutes )===
 +
 +
SUNs new WTK is tightly coupled with Netbeans Mobility Pack.
 +
 +
* How can we integrate WTK into MADK?
 +
* How do other vendors distribute their SDK's for inclusion into the WTK?
 +
** How can we minimize the effort for SDK vendors to support both, WTK and MADK
 +
 +
 +
== Business related work items (20 minutes) ==
 +
 +
=== Supported Platforms (5 minutes) ===
 +
 +
In the Q2 Timeframe, which platforms should we focus on?
 +
* Windows (Vista??)
 +
* MacOS 
 +
* Linux
 +
 +
Mac and Linux are currently not supported by Netbeans Mobility pack - Would be a good way to differentiate
 +
 +
 +
=== Native Development (10 minutes total) ===
 +
 +
How are we integrating to the TmL and Tools for Linux projects?
 +
 +
How can we support mobile Web development?
 +
 +
 +
=== Evaluation of Wireless Toolkit 3.0 (5 minutes) ===
 +
 +
Volunteers to create a competitive analysis of WTK3?
 +
 +
There is several possible impacts of WTK.
 +
* Tight integration of Emulator and Netbeans
 +
** "SDK" cannot be downloaded without a mini-version of Netbeans.
 +
* Not clear if it still supports UEI
 +
** Will we be able to "import" WTK 3 into MTJ?
 +
** Does WTK3 support the import of UEI SDKs? (e.g. for 3rd parties)
 +
 +
It is also not clear if UEI has been changed/extended by WTK3. There is no official specification update released.
  
 
=== Upcoming Events ===
 
=== Upcoming Events ===
  
  
== Next Steps, Action Items ==
+
= Next Steps (5 minutes) =
  
  
 
== Next Meeting ==
 
== Next Meeting ==
 +
 +
Review proposed date/time for Face to Face meeting: http://wiki.eclipse.org/EMIWG/Face2Face-EclipseCon2009
 +
 +
Propose next phone call (Business focused) for February 11th.
 +
 +
 +
== Action Items ==

Latest revision as of 20:54, 2 February 2009

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Meeting Logistics

Time

Berlin, Stockholm, Salzburg 5:00:00 PM UTC+1 hours
Helsinki (Finland) 6:00:00 PM UTC+2 hours
London (UK) 4:00:00 PM UTC+0 hour
San Francisco (USA. - California) 8:00:00 AM UTC-8 hours
Sao Paulo (Brazil - São Paulo) 2:00:00 PM UTC-2 hours

Click here for Complete Listing of World Clock Timezones.

Dial-in Info

Toll free:

  • US & Canada: 1877 825 8522
  • UK: 0808 234 7914
  • Brazil: 0800 891 6634
  • Finland: 0800 11 6433
  • Sweden: 020 79 3867 or 020 088 4643
  • More international call-in Numbers, see: EMIWG/InternationalDialInNumbers

International Toll Number: US: +1 702 495 1500

Passcode: 9190565826 (CHANGED from last meeting!!)

Attendees (Actual)

  • Motorola (Dino Brusco, Christian Kurzke, Gustavo Paula, Eric Cloninger)
  • Nokia (Ronnie King (Carbide.c++), Gorkem Ercan )
  • Craig Setera
  • RIM (Ken Wallis (eclipse team lead), Matt Whiteman, Adam Abramski, Cassidy Gentle)
  • Sony Ericsson (Thomas Westing)
  • Genuitec (Wayne Parrott, Todd Williams) project Firefly


Proposed Agenda

Roll Call and Review of the Agenda (5 Minutes)

(anyone have some last minute Agenda items)


Dino: Brief Update from the Business Side (10 minutes)

Brief overview of proposed future Meeting Structure and Work Streams.

Clearer separation of topics

  • Technical work streams
  • Business topics


Inclusiveness of non-Java mobile devices

How to better proceed with:

  • Native target development (TML, Tools for Linux, etc)
  • Web development

Member Benefits

Reminder of Member benefits for upcoming events:

  • Joint Marketing
  • Voting on
    • Deployment requirements and formats (topic discussed later)
    • Inclusion on the SDK download portal

EMIWG Branding

Call for Proposal for a "more recognizable" name for EMIWG and MADK.

Review of Ongoing Technical Work Items (35 minutes total)

Note: Craig is only available for 1/2 hour, so topics that relate to his work and MTJ are moved to the beginning of the meeting.


Christian/Craig/(Gustavo?): Mobile Tools for Java Device/SDK registration (5 minutes)

There is an ongoing discussion about "Extension Points to register devices", see: http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/dsdp-mtj-dev/threads.html#00788

How this relates to the MADK:

  • The proposed "discovery and download" of vendor SDK's could use this mechanism to register devices which are supported by this SDK.
  • Without such a functionality, the MADK has no "official and documented" API to perform this functionality.

Members of the EMIWG are encouraged to review and participate in this discussion on the MTJ mailing list.

Current "favourite" proposal is to use a mechanism similar to JDT JDK registration.

As a side-note: This proposed Extension Point will modify the API of MTJ, and has possible impact on a 1.0 release schedule. There is a risk that with current resources in MTJ project this change cannot be included in Galileo train release.

Craig Setera: Report on Device Fragmentation proposal (10 minutes)

Craig to go over his presentation of Device Fragmentation

Download slides HERE: https://opensource.motorola.com/sf/go/doc1363?nav=1

Questions:

  • Can this be applicable to "other than Java" developers?


Mobile Distillery is also now shipping a plug-in to support Netbeans developers. Anyone has contacts there to see if there is interest to create an Eclipse version?


MADK SDK Packaging (15 minutes)

Evaluation of existing Eclipse Packaging mechanisms

Contacted Ian/Doug/Bjorn at the Foundation to find out details about the Eclipse Packaging Project. According to Foundation, the code is currently not in active development. Plans to re-activate project in spring timeframe.

When further investigating, it seems the EPP project had a different focus, and would actually create packages OF Eclipse, not FOR Eclipse.

Most promising avenue is currently using straight P2 Mechanism, see more about general P2 ideas at:


Proposal to create a UI Workflow for MADK similar to: http://wiki.eclipse.org/Equinox_p2_UI_3.5_workflows Volunteers?


Impact of Packaging and Distribution Mechanism on SDK vendors

Create a list of pro/con of using P2 packaging to distribute SDK.

Pro:

  • Easy, existing download mechanism and packaging format
  • Seamless integration into Eclipse
  • Benefit from automatic Update Manager mechanism

Con:

  • Requires re-package of existing distribution format
    • Volunteers to evaluate impact
  • May require server side changes?
    • How to handle Authentication/log-in on SDK vendor server? (e.g. Motodev user login, Ericsson Developer World, Forum Nokia & others)

Next Steps for Packaging

Can we set a deadline for a

  • proposal (Packaging & Deployment)
  • review (2 weeks)
  • vote/decision (members?)


Integration with WTK 3.0 (5 minutes )

SUNs new WTK is tightly coupled with Netbeans Mobility Pack.

  • How can we integrate WTK into MADK?
  • How do other vendors distribute their SDK's for inclusion into the WTK?
    • How can we minimize the effort for SDK vendors to support both, WTK and MADK


Business related work items (20 minutes)

Supported Platforms (5 minutes)

In the Q2 Timeframe, which platforms should we focus on?

  • Windows (Vista??)
  • MacOS
  • Linux

Mac and Linux are currently not supported by Netbeans Mobility pack - Would be a good way to differentiate


Native Development (10 minutes total)

How are we integrating to the TmL and Tools for Linux projects?

How can we support mobile Web development?


Evaluation of Wireless Toolkit 3.0 (5 minutes)

Volunteers to create a competitive analysis of WTK3?

There is several possible impacts of WTK.

  • Tight integration of Emulator and Netbeans
    • "SDK" cannot be downloaded without a mini-version of Netbeans.
  • Not clear if it still supports UEI
    • Will we be able to "import" WTK 3 into MTJ?
    • Does WTK3 support the import of UEI SDKs? (e.g. for 3rd parties)

It is also not clear if UEI has been changed/extended by WTK3. There is no official specification update released.

Upcoming Events

Next Steps (5 minutes)

Next Meeting

Review proposed date/time for Face to Face meeting: http://wiki.eclipse.org/EMIWG/Face2Face-EclipseCon2009

Propose next phone call (Business focused) for February 11th.


Action Items

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