Skip to main content

Notice: This Wiki is now read only and edits are no longer possible. Please see: for the plan.

Jump to: navigation, search

Architecture Council/Minutes December 16 2008

Meeting Title: Architecture Council Monthly Meeting
Date & Time: Tuesday December 16, 2008 at 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin
Html.gifHTML | Ical.gifiCal (schedule finding poll)
Dial-in: (+1) 613.287.8000 (Ottawa and international) or
866.362.7064 (toll-free North America)
passcode 464440#


BIRT: Wenfeng Li
DTP: Brian Fitzpatrick
DSDP: Doug Gaff Martin Oberhuber
Eclipse: Kevin Haaland
Modeling: Richard Gronback Ed Merks
RT: Jeff McAffer Jochen Krause
Technology: Gunnar Wagenknecht Wayne Beaton
Tools: John Duimovich
TPTP: Eugene Chan
  • Use the Doodle Attendance Tracking Poll to confirm attendance or send regrets for this meeting. See this message for how to use it. All AC Members are invited.
    • Signed-up: Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, David Carver, Bjorn Freeman-Benson, Markus Knauer, Andrew Overholt, Mary Ruddy, Michael Scharf, Doug Schaefer, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Mark Vandenbrink, Tom Watson, Gary Xue
    • Regrets: Boris Bokowski, Adrian Colyer, Naci Dai, Sven Efftinge, Neil Hauge, Oisin Hurley, Wenfeng Li, Georg Schmidt, Karsten Schmidt, Gunnar Wagenknecht, David Williams, Darin Wright
    • No-Show: Doug Clarke, John Graham, Mik Kersten, Mike Milinkovich, Jeff McAffer, Philippe Mulet, Mike Wilson

Agenda / Notes

  • Feel free to edit, but not during the call!

Review of Action Items


  • New Members: Linda Chan, Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member)
    • RESOLUTION - everybody in favor of appointing Linda. AI Martin ask mike to appoint.
  • New Dormant Members - see Architecture Council/Members and Mentors
  • AC Admin via the Portal
    • AI All Mentors Enter Mentorship data on the Portal - new AC component - will show up on the councils page as well as project homepages
    • bug 256318 - Need a page that lists projects and mentors for further processing (query for projects without mentors)
    • bug 258085 - councils page - hyperlink mentored projects against projects' home pages
    • bug 258096 - Request a "Biography URL" in the Portal
    • bug 255383 - councils page doesn't show company affiliation for PMC reps
    • bug 255385 - councils page doesn't show PMC reps for Modeling, Birt, Stp
    • Karl, Bjorn, Gabe (and sometimes Denis) working on the Portal
    • Should we retire the Architecture Council/Members and Mentors page? - Not entirely, 'cause the "dormant" status cannot be tracked in foundation DB, and mentorship for proposed projects won't show up; don't want to do double bookkeeping in the long run, but for now please update both pages
  • IP/Legal Discussions: Janet's E-Mail asking PMC's and AC to answer IP/Legal related questions:
    • IPZilla Infrastructure for "closed group" discussions should be completed soon. AI Mike inform all when it's in place.
  • AC Website Revamp needed to make the information that's already there more consumable
  • PMC Representation on the AC
    • Up to now, the AC meetings are totally voluntary, offline interaction is as good as direct interaction
    • Martin would like to ask PMC Reps either attend the meetings or send a designated delegate (might be another appointed member), in order to ensure full coverage
    • Create a table per PMC on the meeting notes (similar to the Board meetings)
    • BIRT, WTP, Tools currently don't have an active official rep - AI Dave Carver to ask Dave W
    • RESOLUTION everybody OK with requiring PMC attendance


  • bug 256220 Silverlight (SLDT), bug 256477 STEM
    • Bugs been open for some time, is our process good enough?
    • Wayne: Projects need to be interesting, so they should be able to attract a mentor...
    • Martin: AC should be responsive, each of us should feel responsible for answering requests timely.
    • RESOLUTION Wayne volunteers to be the be the initial contact (at least partly)
  • See Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors (or were grandfathered) - ACTF, Aperi, Apogee (Dave Carver), COSMOS, PDT - Wayne trying to encourage project find a mentor (by filing a bug.
    • Mass mailing likely won't help... at least as long as we don't have a pool of mentors just waiting to get mentors. So, for now, direct PMC interaction will likely help more.
    • AI Andrew Overholt: file bug asking for mentors for linux distros!
    • AI All PMC's encourage incubating grandfathered projects ask for a mentor
  • Oisin says: by the time this call happens, I'll be a mentor on the Faceted Framework project, which is Konstantin's move from WTP. It's a little odd, because he has a lot more experience of working in Eclipse than I do :) Would it be useful in some cases to have a rider on the mentorship requirement for old hands starting with new projects? Maybe reduce the mentor count to one? Discuss.
    • Martin thinks: In my understanding, the idea of mentorship is getting a "second pair of eyes" on some things, as well as to foster communications across PMC / Technology boundaries (by means of the AC). If Kosta is more experienced than yourself, this just means that he won't need you that much to answer questions, and you'll likely not have to monitor his efforts a lot. But it's good to have the cross-project exposure by means of the two-mentor-requirement.
    • Ed: Reducing mentor count basically comes down to self-mentoring
    • Mentors are not necessarily ahead in the domain... they should help with the Eclipse Development Process
    • Workload: mentoring is not necessarily that much work (Ed), demand varies (Rich)
    • RESOLUTION we agree to keep the 2-mentor requirement

News from the EMO & Councils

  • Don: StAC meeting at Eclipse World -- outcome?
    • SWOT analysis done -- Don going to post meeting minutes; Board approved an USD 20.000 budget for improving the Release Train
    • Don going to call in for a StAC telecon meeting in January (or early february) in order to prioritize items how the money should be spent -- might be for Galileo or probably next year's train
    • If successful, this might become a recurring thing every year
  • Board Meeting Update, based on Martin's AC update
    • Confidential until the Board Meeting minutes are posted on the Foundation Minutes page - navigated from Eclipse homepage by "About us" > "Foundation" > "Meeting Minutes"
    • Doug Gaff: Board been happy with AC revival, less happy with technical items. Doug wants to work on an official response from the Board to the AC report
    • Bjorn: It might take some time until minutes are posted, but as soon as they are, they now show up on the Projects What's New page and RSS Feed
    • Doug also going to blog the Board meeting

New Topics

  • Tom S: Project Proposals - What can be done to streamline project proposals even more ... we could provide Tooling for it. I started writing a little RCP-Application which defines an Ecore-Model of required information and provides a UI to enter the data and produce the Review Document

  • Tom S: Best practice for picking up I-builds - HTTP downloads are slow, installation cumbersome
    • Martin tried the Eclipse Project Update Sites with Equinox p2 Repository Mirroring and p2 Director scripts to update, but found bug 258865 (invalid 3.5-I-builds repository), bug 258680 (mirroring) and bug 258683 (install) - currently not usable
    • Using SSH / SCP with some scripts for installation from the ZIPs right now
    • Dave Carver using a script ("custom eclipse") on sourceforge - Custom Eclipse Builder
    • Andrew Overholt: As part of Common Builder (CBI), looking at how to best get the bits
    • Should the AC host a page with a recommended best practice?
    • RESOLUTION Wait until we have a best practice (by means of CBI, or p2, or a script)
  • Christian Kurzke (TmL project, DSDP PMC) asked:
    • How do other projects maintain an IP-clean repository? Does anybody perform regular Black Duck scans? Should the Eclipse Foundation do them?
      • Bjorn, Wayne: It seems like Foundation does occasionally scan the repository
    • TmL team does them based on previous Motorola use, but sees lots of effort in sorting out false positives
  • Martin: Duplication - m2eclipse and IAM for Maven
    • Bjorn: Current philosophy is that it's fine to propose multiple projects -- encourage people to work together, but don't enforce it. When a project matures, there should be only.
    • AI Martin follow up with Brett Porter and the m2eclipse / iam projects
  • Martin: Architecture Diagrams -
    • Eclipse is growing rapidly, and it's getting ever harder to understand what projects are available, how they are interrelated and where there is duplication.
    • It was the original AC charter to create an architecture plan
    • Can we auto-generate an architecture diagram? - Some ideas:
      • Scan the project's web pages and CVS Repository and build a semantic web
      • Analyze the MANIFEST.MF dependencies in each project's repository HEAD, generate a dependency graph out of it and use some graph layout / clustering algorithm (could we allow interactive zooming into clusters?)
      • Define some keywords, and ask each project use the Portal to pick keywords that are relevant for their project. Based on keyword association, have some graph auto-generated (clustered by keywords).
    • AI Martin ask on mailing list

Recent Discussions

Old items

Action Items

  • Ok green.gif Martin to inform Linda Chan about appointment, and ask Mike to appoint.
  • Ok green.gif Andrew Overholt filed bug 258966 asking for mentorship for Linux Distros
  • Ok green.gif Dave Carver to ask WTP PMC about council representation
  • All Mentors to enter their mentorship info into the Portal
  • All PMC's to encourage incubating grandfathered projects ask for a mentor (by filing an AC bug)
  • Ok green.gif Dave Carver to have a look at the Architecture Council Wiki page and visually improve it for users/consumers
    • David Carver - Added Catagories for the Architecture Council, and moved content to it's own separate page.
  • Ok green.gif Dave Carver, Chris to add links for Project Proposal Template and Pulling Eclipse Scripts into the meeting notes
  • Mike to inform everyone when the IPZilla Legal Closed Group is ready to use
  • Martin to follow up with the m2eclipse and IAM projects regarding duplication
  • Martin to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea
  • Everyone pick dates for the January Meeting on Doodle Poll

Next Meeting

  • Can pick through Doodle poll: Thursday Jan 8 (2nd Thurs), or Tuesday Jan 13, or Thursday Jan 15 (3rd Thursday in January)

Copyright © Eclipse Foundation, Inc. All Rights Reserved.