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Architecture Council/Meetings/September 9 2010
< Architecture Council | Meetings
Revision as of 12:43, 9 September 2010 by Mober.at+eclipse.gmail.com (Talk | contribs)
Meeting Title: | Architecture Council Monthly Meeting |
Date & Time: | Thursday September 9, 2010 at 1500 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin attention DST change HTML | iCal |
Dial-in: | NEW Canada 1-877-727-8553 toll free / 1-416-840-9801 caller paid NEW U.S. 1-866-394-4146 toll free / 1-480-629-1624 caller paid NEW passcode 428029063 |
Contents
Attendees
All AC Members are invited.
- PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
BIRT: | |
Gary Xue |
DTP: | Brian Payton | Linda Chan |
DSDP: | Martin Oberhuber | TBD (DSDP-PMC) |
Eclipse: | Mike Wilson | John Arthorne Boris Bokowski |
Modeling: | Ed Merks | Cédric Brun Sven Efftinge |
RT: | Jeff McAffer | Tom Watson |
STP: | Antoine Toulme | Oisin Hurley |
Technology: | Gunnar Wagenknecht | Wayne Beaton |
Tools: | Doug Schaefer | |
TPTP: | Jonathan West | |
WTP: | Tim deBoer | Dave Carver Neil Hauge |
- Regrets: Oliver Cole (standing conflict), Wenfeng Li (standing conflict), Mik Kersten
Agenda / Notes
- Feel free to edit, but not during the call!
Review of Last Meeting
- Architecture Council/Meetings/August 12 2010
- (old) Tim write up an initial wiki page with information for people to standardize on the tracing API
- Martin revise the AC Wiki to make it easier to find the New Member Process. More links on homepage. More usage of categories.
- Martin bug 315210 Make the AC mailing list open / moderated
- Antoine / Dave C bug 316642 Requirements Wiki for build systems
- Still open items moved to #Action Items
New Topics
- Findbugs day / Fixit challenge - Dave C
- Ed likes the idea... but how configurable is Findbugs to avoid false positives just due to style?
- Wayne: Producers of FindBugs have been using Eclipse as a test project
- Resolution follow up in a bug, key will be getting a good config to only show bugs but no stlye issues
- bug 324125 architecture diagrams - 2006 version - relationship to e4 ?
- Ed - nice to have, but who's going to produce them?
- Wayne - core question is, are these valuable? If yes, what is the smallest amount of work possible creating something useful?
- Jeff - Platform: Technical details like OSGi bundles etc are well covered... but what is the relationship between projects on top of the Platform ? What can be used together?
- From a Consumer point of view, always hard to find out how eg the Modeling projects work together
- Eg relationship RAP - EMF - Eclipselink ... how to put something together with Persistence + Web
- Martin - looks like interaction between projects would just be documenting what evolved ad-hoc
- Jeff - having no deliberate architecture sounds like failure of the AC in the past
- Michael - opposite is also true, avoiding dependencies
- How to sell this ... who is the target audience? Value to committers / adopters seems small
- Wayne: A PDE component can draw a dependency graph .. but what is the value?
- Jeff: RCP came about by having the community ask for removing dependencies
- Diagrams are a vehicle, not a means to an end.
- Looking at current architecture, it appears too "stacked"
- Wayne has a newer diagram for the Platform in a presentation somewhere ... rectifying the diagrams is not too much work
- Martin: Rectifying current diagrams + collecting statements might be helpful .. on a Wiki page
- To keep that from getting stale, would need to make it a recurring agenda item
- Ed: Dependency issues are likely best driven by Community ("what they want").
- Some dependencies are really annoying, but well-known and unlikely to change (eg EMF -> Resources, making it unusable in RCP)
- Truth is, we have ad-hoc dependencies, but it's unlikely to change
- Cleanup only happens with sufficient pressure / value to consumers.
- If we cannot effect change, we can just document things
- AI Wayne create an "Eclipse Platform Architecture" Wiki page with a diagram he already has as slideware. Continue discussion from there
- Helios API Usage report
- How much of an issue is it (related to e4)?
- Handling of provisional API ? E.g. o.e.debug.internal.ui.viewers.model.provisional.IChildrenCountUpdate
- promote usage of x-friends / startup extension (as per zx mail)
- Darin thinks that client of API should request producer of API to be a friend (and allow producer to say yes or no)
- Jeff: non-API usage is really a bug... but allow consumers to request being a friend
- Value of promoting friend-usage is diagram cleanup / reducing noise
- In order to promote the effort, could create some statistics of showing the biggest offenders
- Jeff would like no internal references in the release train ... exemption when a request exists asking for new API
- If we really think there should be no non-API use, we should walk the walk and enforce it
- We can promote the idea, but control resides with the PC
- Current report is user-based ... Darin wants a consumer-based report in Indigo bug 322571 on the PDE/Plan/3.7
- Build systems requirements - Antoine, Dave C
- News from the Board, EMO and Councils
e4 - current state of affairs
- PC / Release Train Relationship to Eclipse 4.0
Items for next meeting
Regular briefing on the status of e4.
Old Topics
We need to reduce our bug backlog, by actually coming to a common resolution on some. Here are the most recent ones:
- DaveC would like to discuss New Committer Guidelines; Scrum / Agile techniques
- bug 285074 - Dave Carver - Hudsonbuilder and write access to the cvs / svn repo
- bug 288393 - Denis - Bugzilla Best Practices
- AC Bugzilla backlog
- See also Architecture Council/Open Issues for overflow items that were not discussed
- News from the EMO and Councils ?
Action Items
- (old) Martin to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea
- (old) Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns, backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals
- While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse
- (old) Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
- (old) Tools and Tech PMC's to encourage incubating grandfathered projects find a mentor; mentorless projects due to AC members quitting or falling dormant
- (old) Martin to add Eclipsecon meeting notes onto the wiki
- (old) Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for Mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list
- (old) Dave C work with Wayne on a "handbook" for project criteria for becoming a committer (referencing committer guidelines)
- Martin - recently updated the Eclipse/Workspace/Committer_FAQ#Becoming_a_Committer with pretty strict criteria (committed contributions)
- (old) Dave C come up with a document how to save build resources
- (old) Dave C to try bugzilla UNCONFIRMED state
- (old) Wayne to ask Sonatype about Nexus test installation
- (old) Wayne to try doing a 3.6m2 API Report on Helios m2
- (old) Martin to file bug for asking Mik hyperlink Wikitext / crowdsourcing Docs handbook on the Architecture Council/Top Ten Project Development Practices page
- (old) Tom S Athena Common Builder Cookbook
- (old) Tim write up an initial wiki page with information for people to standardize on the tracing API
- Martin revise the AC Wiki to make it easier to find the New Member Process. More links on homepage. More usage of categories.
- Martin bug 315210 Make the AC mailing list open / moderated
- Antoine / Dave C bug 316642 Requirements Wiki for build systems