Architecture Council/Meetings/September 8 2016
< Architecture Council | Meetings
|Meeting Title:||Architecture Council Monthly Meeting|
|Date & Time:|| Thursday September 8, 2016 at 1100 Ottawa |
HTML | iCal
|Dial-in:|| Let's use the Foundation's Asterisk setup for this call:
Participant conference extension: 701 then enter pin: 51968
Agenda / Notes
- Feel free to edit, but not during the call!
- Last meeting: Architecture Council/Meetings/August 11 2016 -- open actions see #Action_Items
Dani: UI Guidelines
- Bring the UI Working Group to life again, promote the UI Guidelines (came up recently on IDE-Dev)
- UI Working Group was very silent recently;
- User Interface Guidelines are still 70% valid, except maybe Theming and trend to flat UI
- Most Projects won't know the Guidelines at all
- Eike: Do we know about user complaints regarding UI inconsistencies ?
- Architectural issue: Some people had to redefine commands, since they were not define at the right layer --
- Example: Some JDT commands had to be redefined in CDT
- Martin: UI Guidelines talk about low-level details ... but user complaints are mostly about high-level: awkward workflows, complexity, over-loaded menus (eg 45 items in an editor context menu !)
- Hard to achieve in an Open Framework ... what do others think ?
- Exactly the same compmlaints from Science ... things feel clunky, unintuitive ... click count, click distance
- Martin: Extend the concepts of Theming and Capabilities, such that Product Builders have more control over workflows ?
- Jay: Exactly this is driving Design Thinking in Science ... moving away from the IDE and more towards RCPs ... desire to hide things, make workflows more natural, more web-like
- Eike: Tools like Thunderbird, MS Office, ... can customize the UI by dragging buttons etc, why isn't that possible in the Eclipse IDE ?
- Mickael: bug 477670 is open for making toolbar customization easier by right-click: one piece in the puzzle, but maybe a step in the right direction ... a patch was submitted but was not good enough
- Doug: Turns off many toolbar items on every new workspace, would be nice saving this as a global config - Dani: would be nice
- Martin: On a higher level - what to do with a UI Working Group, how to find resources for specific problem solutions, how to come up with an architecture to address the "big picture" problems
- Dani: Mike Milinkovich could hire a Designer for FEEP ... could consider looking over the current design and bring it up to date
- Doug: "Quality of the IDE" really needs to go into the culture of projects .. would like to see those kind of things reflected in the UI Guidelines
- Jay would be happy jumping in as a Chair of a "New UI Working Group"; Doug also interested in driving this
- Want this as a member group, or prefer industry leaders jump in ? Need to pick a path, to bootstrap it (via Bug ticket)
- Doug recommends starting as a committee on the AC (rather than an entire Working Group), start with phone calls, hangouts etc (that's also how the Science WG started out)
- AI Dani could send a note to the "old" UI mailing list, and ask Mike about funding for FEEP Design
- AI Doug to start with a note to the Mailing List, then schedule calls. Jay is OK since already driving one WG.
Jay: Web UI Strategies
- Where is Eclipse in terms of Web UIs - time for a Strategy around Che, RAP, Scout - is Eclipse as a whole missing the boat in terms of going to the Web ?
- There is pressure on Science projects going to the Web .. but without Guidance from the AC, projects are lost
- How many users use Scout, RAP, ... in the RCP space ?
- Any guidelines like ... if you use Virgo, look at React, if you have an RCP look at RAP ...
- Projects are going to migrate, how could we help
- Doug: There's so many web frameworks out there, why create another one ?
- Martin: Having a hard time thinking about "the guideline that fits everyone" ... probably rather a blog by somebody who went through the process evaluating options and writing that down ?
- AI Jay will put his thoughts on the Wiki as a start for discussion
Eike: F2F at EclipseCon
- AI Eike ask AI Wayne if he could organize some something (Eike, Dani, Doug at least).
- Done: Wayne will post infos to the mailing list...
Dani: PC Call yesteray
- Refer to David Williams's Notes
- Platform make a very big N&N, much more than other projects; will look at small updates for "dot." updates
- Talked about a new model for "Post Release / Starting New Train" - will keep existing projects to start and remove them later (note been sent on cross-platform)
Release vs. Product Naming
- Naming of Releases and IDE Product (Wayne has bug 493490 open on that)
- Q: is there any value changing from "Eclipse IDE" to anything else ?
- Maybe split the discussion into a couple separate bugs ?
- Is there still a need brainstorming, or should there just be a vote (or dictator)?
- Wayne: Perhaps what's missing is simply a product manager (Ian did a survey shortly before Neon, some terms are already out there). There is value in us talking about things in a consistent way.
- Need a leader to come
Wayne: Simplifying the Release Process
- bug many projects move quickly; require projects do a proper review "once in a while" eg yearly, but allow them release much quicker
All AC Members are invited.
- PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
|BIRT:||Wenfeng Li||Wenbin He|
|DTP:||Brian Payton||Linda Chan|
|Eclipse:||Dani Megert||Mike Wilson|
|Modeling:||Ed Merks|| Cédric Brun|
|Mylyn:||Steffen Pingel||Mik Kersten|
|RT:||Christian Campo|| Tom Watson|
|SOA:||Adrian Mos||Marc Dutoo|
|Technology:||Gunnar Wagenknecht||Wayne Beaton|
|Tools:||Doug Schaefer|| |
|WTP:||Chuck Bridgham||Neil Hauge|
- In attendance: Wayne Beaton, Jay Billings, Cedric Brun, Christian Campo, Mickael Istria, Alex Kurtakov, Marc-Andre Laperle, Dani Megert, Alexander Nyssen, Martin O, Doug Schaefer, Eike Stepper, Krum Tsvetkov
- Regrets: Jonas Helming, Martin Lippert, Adrian Mos, Denis Roy, Matthias Sohn, Gunnar Wagenknecht