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Difference between revisions of "Architecture Council/Meetings/September 10 2015"
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| − | | Thursday [[ | + | | Thursday [[Sep 10, 2015]] at [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Eclipse+AC+Montly+Meeting&iso=20150910T11&p1=188&ah=1 1100 Ottawa] <br>[[Image:Html.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Canada/Toronto HTML] | [[Image:Ical.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics iCal] |
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| Dial-in: | | Dial-in: | ||
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| '''BIRT:''' | | '''BIRT:''' | ||
| − | | Wenfeng Li | + | | <strike>Wenfeng Li</strike> |
| − | | Wenbin He | + | | <strike>Wenbin He</strike> |
|- | |- | ||
| '''DTP:''' | | '''DTP:''' | ||
| Line 38: | Line 38: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| '''Eclipse:''' | | '''Eclipse:''' | ||
| − | | Mike Wilson | + | | <strike>Mike Wilson</strike> |
| − | | | + | | Dani Megert |
|- | |- | ||
| '''Modeling:''' | | '''Modeling:''' | ||
| − | | Ed Merks | + | | <strike>Ed Merks</strike> |
| − | + | | Eike Stepper | |
|- | |- | ||
| '''Mylyn:''' | | '''Mylyn:''' | ||
| Steffen Pingel | | Steffen Pingel | ||
| − | | Mik Kersten | + | | <strike>Mik Kersten</strike> |
|- | |- | ||
| '''RT:''' | | '''RT:''' | ||
| − | | Christian Campo | + | | <strike>Christian Campo</strike> |
| − | + | | Ian Bull | |
|- | |- | ||
| '''SOA:''' | | '''SOA:''' | ||
| − | | Adrian Mos | + | | <strike>Adrian Mos</strike> |
| − | | Marc Dutoo | + | | <strike>Marc Dutoo</strike> |
|- | |- | ||
| '''Technology:''' | | '''Technology:''' | ||
| − | | Gunnar Wagenknecht | + | | <strike>Gunnar Wagenknecht</strike> |
| Wayne Beaton | | Wayne Beaton | ||
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| Line 66: | Line 66: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| '''WTP:''' | | '''WTP:''' | ||
| − | | Chuck Bridgham | + | | <strike>Chuck Bridgham</strike> |
| − | | Neil Hauge | + | | <strike>Neil Hauge</strike> |
|} | |} | ||
===All Attendees=== | ===All Attendees=== | ||
| − | |||
| − | |||
<!-- | <!-- | ||
| Line 80: | Line 78: | ||
* '''No-Show:''' Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, Nick Boldt, Cédric Brun, Ian Bull, Christian Campo, Dave Carver, Doug Clarke, Kenn Hussey, Mik Kersten, Achim Lörke, Markus Knauer, Ed Merks, Mike Milinkovich, Kim Moir, Adrian Mos, Gunnar Wagenknecht, Bernd Kolb | * '''No-Show:''' Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, Nick Boldt, Cédric Brun, Ian Bull, Christian Campo, Dave Carver, Doug Clarke, Kenn Hussey, Mik Kersten, Achim Lörke, Markus Knauer, Ed Merks, Mike Milinkovich, Kim Moir, Adrian Mos, Gunnar Wagenknecht, Bernd Kolb | ||
--> | --> | ||
| + | |||
| + | * '''In attendance:''' Max Andersen, Wayne Beaton, Ian Bull, Jonas Helming, Maximilian Koegel, Konstantin Kommissarchik, Alex Kurtakov, Martin Lippert, Dani Megert, Martin O, Steffen Pingel, Doug Schaefer, Eike Stepper | ||
| + | |||
== Agenda / Notes == | == Agenda / Notes == | ||
| Line 87: | Line 88: | ||
=== Review of Last Meeting === | === Review of Last Meeting === | ||
| − | * [[Architecture Council/Meetings/ | + | * [[Architecture Council/Meetings/July 9 2015]] |
* Still open items moved to [[#Action_Items]] | * Still open items moved to [[#Action_Items]] | ||
| − | === | + | === Dani: '''Planning Council Update on Releasing more Frequently''' === |
| + | * 2 months ago, reached consensus renaming to "Mars.1" and "Mars.2". Thus made it more official to allow adding minor features in Update Releases | ||
| + | * Consensus for keeping the June release as the "major" one where API breakage is allowed | ||
| + | * Consensus for 3 additional "update" releases from Neon on: End Sept, Mid Dec, End March | ||
| + | ** Cannot opt-out of the release train on updates (but allowed to not contribute again) | ||
| + | ** Cannot break API on updates | ||
| + | ** Eike: For Release Reviews that coincide with the Release Train Update, there's a different deadline (material ready by RC1 -- EDP not yet updated to mention that) | ||
| + | ** Dani: Will need to add a "Feature Deadline" for Update releases moving forward, such that the IP team can plan ahead | ||
| + | |||
| + | |||
| + | === Max: '''How Update Sites Are Handled in the Release Train''' === | ||
| + | * JBoss Tools using Docker Tooling; Mirror the Eclipse site | ||
| + | ** Linuxtools and CDT have a p2.inf touchpoint pointing to their update site -- adding the "docker fixes" update site in that case | ||
| + | *** This helps users enabling "bugfix" updates for docker easily; underlying tools change quite rapidly, thus there is a need releasing bugfixes quickly | ||
| + | *** Make it easier for Release Train to work with latest valgrind, docker, ... | ||
| + | ** Workaround; Cut out that touchpoint when mirroring the site (to avoid p2 mirror downloading too much) | ||
| + | ** "Automatic Updates" should by default give something that's rock solid and works | ||
| + | |||
| + | * '''Q: What is the best way to deliver "important updates" to users easily?''' | ||
| + | ** Pointing Release Train to a "nightly" site sounds like a bug. | ||
| + | ** Plus p2 gets very slow when checking too many sites (Eike: Oomph Layer in packages includes cached repo, making it much faster) | ||
| + | ** Max Idea 1: Provide a '''"Mars Rolling"''' composite p2 repo which actually just points to project's update sites ? | ||
| + | ** Max Idea 2: Get Updates from '''Marketplace''' (at least for "optional features") | ||
| + | ** Kosta: Fundamental problem of the Eclipse Release Train - Other communities use multiple train streams eg "stable", "development" | ||
| + | ** Ian: Streams are great, but what's the default? - Bulk of the users will just download and expect it works | ||
| + | *** Max: Get "Mars" by default; allow people to add '''one''' site eg "Mars.Rolling" rather than a long list of sites | ||
| + | *** Alex: Could also be a single checkbox in the installer (make the decision upfront) | ||
| + | ** Martin: What do Users/Consumers say - do they complain about "too hard to get updates" ? | ||
| + | ** Wayne: Adding Marketplace Entries for simrel automatically turned out to be too complex | ||
| − | * | + | * Eike likes the idea of a "Mars.Rolling" stream to allow users "check for updates" on contributing repos |
| + | ** BUT projects would need some rules to contribute only "bugfix" repos to that stream | ||
| + | ** Kosta: Proposes a broader discussion around which streams may be needed ... ask user explicitly what stream he wants to be on | ||
| + | ** Doug: How to make that happen... | ||
| + | '''Summary:''' - It's a real problem today that users who "check for updates" only get access to the Simrel Stream (which publishes updates infrequently). | ||
| + | * Direct access to project update sites is unintuitive; how could we make it more intuitive to allow getting "project updates" more easily ? | ||
| + | * Doug agreed taking this discussion to the Planning Council. | ||
<!--- | <!--- | ||
| Line 113: | Line 148: | ||
== Next Meeting == | == Next Meeting == | ||
| − | * [[Architecture Council/Meetings/ | + | * [[Architecture Council/Meetings/October 8 2015]] |
[[Category:Architecture_Council_Meeting_Minutes]] | [[Category:Architecture_Council_Meeting_Minutes]] | ||
Latest revision as of 12:14, 10 September 2015
| Meeting Title: | Architecture Council Monthly Meeting |
| Date & Time: | Thursday Sep 10, 2015 at 1100 Ottawa  HTML |  iCal
|
| Dial-in: | Let's use the Foundation's Asterisk setup for this call:
Participant conference extension: 701 then enter pin: 51968
|
Contents
Attendees
All AC Members are invited.
- PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
| BIRT: | |
|
| DTP: | Brian Payton | Linda Chan |
| Eclipse: | |
Dani Megert |
| Modeling: | |
Eike Stepper |
| Mylyn: | Steffen Pingel | |
| RT: | |
Ian Bull |
| SOA: | |
|
| Technology: | |
Wayne Beaton |
| Tools: | Doug Schaefer | |
| WTP: | |
|
All Attendees
- In attendance: Max Andersen, Wayne Beaton, Ian Bull, Jonas Helming, Maximilian Koegel, Konstantin Kommissarchik, Alex Kurtakov, Martin Lippert, Dani Megert, Martin O, Steffen Pingel, Doug Schaefer, Eike Stepper
Agenda / Notes
- Feel free to edit, but not during the call!
Review of Last Meeting
- Architecture Council/Meetings/July 9 2015
- Still open items moved to #Action_Items
Dani: Planning Council Update on Releasing more Frequently
- 2 months ago, reached consensus renaming to "Mars.1" and "Mars.2". Thus made it more official to allow adding minor features in Update Releases
- Consensus for keeping the June release as the "major" one where API breakage is allowed
- Consensus for 3 additional "update" releases from Neon on: End Sept, Mid Dec, End March
- Cannot opt-out of the release train on updates (but allowed to not contribute again)
- Cannot break API on updates
- Eike: For Release Reviews that coincide with the Release Train Update, there's a different deadline (material ready by RC1 -- EDP not yet updated to mention that)
- Dani: Will need to add a "Feature Deadline" for Update releases moving forward, such that the IP team can plan ahead
Max: How Update Sites Are Handled in the Release Train
- JBoss Tools using Docker Tooling; Mirror the Eclipse site
- Linuxtools and CDT have a p2.inf touchpoint pointing to their update site -- adding the "docker fixes" update site in that case
- This helps users enabling "bugfix" updates for docker easily; underlying tools change quite rapidly, thus there is a need releasing bugfixes quickly
- Make it easier for Release Train to work with latest valgrind, docker, ...
- Workaround; Cut out that touchpoint when mirroring the site (to avoid p2 mirror downloading too much)
- "Automatic Updates" should by default give something that's rock solid and works
- Linuxtools and CDT have a p2.inf touchpoint pointing to their update site -- adding the "docker fixes" update site in that case
- Q: What is the best way to deliver "important updates" to users easily?
- Pointing Release Train to a "nightly" site sounds like a bug.
- Plus p2 gets very slow when checking too many sites (Eike: Oomph Layer in packages includes cached repo, making it much faster)
- Max Idea 1: Provide a "Mars Rolling" composite p2 repo which actually just points to project's update sites ?
- Max Idea 2: Get Updates from Marketplace (at least for "optional features")
- Kosta: Fundamental problem of the Eclipse Release Train - Other communities use multiple train streams eg "stable", "development"
- Ian: Streams are great, but what's the default? - Bulk of the users will just download and expect it works
- Max: Get "Mars" by default; allow people to add one site eg "Mars.Rolling" rather than a long list of sites
- Alex: Could also be a single checkbox in the installer (make the decision upfront)
- Martin: What do Users/Consumers say - do they complain about "too hard to get updates" ?
- Wayne: Adding Marketplace Entries for simrel automatically turned out to be too complex
- Eike likes the idea of a "Mars.Rolling" stream to allow users "check for updates" on contributing repos
- BUT projects would need some rules to contribute only "bugfix" repos to that stream
- Kosta: Proposes a broader discussion around which streams may be needed ... ask user explicitly what stream he wants to be on
- Doug: How to make that happen...
Summary: - It's a real problem today that users who "check for updates" only get access to the Simrel Stream (which publishes updates infrequently).
- Direct access to project update sites is unintuitive; how could we make it more intuitive to allow getting "project updates" more easily ?
- Doug agreed taking this discussion to the Planning Council.