Architecture Council/Meetings/July 9 2015
|Meeting Title:||Architecture Council Monthly Meeting|
|Date & Time:|| Thursday July 9, 2015 at 1500 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin attention DST change|
HTML | iCal
|Dial-in:|| Let's use the Foundation's Asterisk setup for this call:
Participant conference extension: 701 then enter pin: 51968
All AC Members are invited.
- PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
|BIRT:||Wenfeng Li||Wenbin He|
|DTP:||Brian Payton||Linda Chan|
|Eclipse:||Mike Wilson||John Arthorne|
|Modeling:||Ed Merks|| Cédric Brun|
|Mylyn:||Steffen Pingel||Mik Kersten|
|RT:||Christian Campo|| Tom Watson|
|SOA:||Adrian Mos||Marc Dutoo|
|Technology:||Gunnar Wagenknecht||Wayne Beaton|
|Tools:||Doug Schaefer|| |
|WTP:||Chuck Bridgham||Neil Hauge|
- Max Andersen, Wayne Beaton, Alex Kurtakov, Dani Megert, Martin O, Brian Payton, Michael Scharf, Eike Stepper
- Regrets: Marcel Bruch, Markus Knauer, Maximilian Kögel, Martin Lippert, Pascal Rapicault, Lars Vogel,
Agenda / Notes
- Feel free to edit, but not during the call!
Review of Last Meeting
- Feel free to fill in, but not during the meeting :)
- Wayne: Development Funding
- Funding stuff that's common and critical for the IDE - So far: p2, Marketplace, ...
- Looking for Process to do this
- Wayne: Blocker bug 463857 - please look at the bug and give feedback, are we targeting the right things ?
- Some runtime work seems unnecessarily hindered by the EDP; simplify project creation, release reviews, continuous integration
- Would like a complete rewrite - much effort but probably doable
- Need a final form by mid October
- Wayne would write the draft, but need direction first and input after the draft (and help writing sections would be appreciated)
- HOWTO docs are too big currently ... hopefully trimming the EDP will trim the HOWTO as well
- Max: Would like to encourage (or at least allow) faster release cadence - what's the minimum necessary that needs to be done for release ?
Hackathon Concept - Development Area
- Wayne: bug 471463 looking for a list of bugs that could be resolved in 2-3 hours
- Want to get back to a habit of marking bugs bugday or similar
- Focus people on what we need them to do ... turn more people into contributors
- Perhaps there's many bugs that stay unadressed since we feel we'd need to get together in a room
- For example, have LaunchBar and Docker work totether
- AC to identify 4 "hard problems" that we'd plan addressing during EclipseCon as a "development experience"
- Encourage the right set of people to come to the conference and participate
- Benjamin, Michael, Wayne from the Foundation would oversee the area
- Eike: Suggest Oomph setups for projects to participate (such that contributors get up to speed faster)
- Wayne - absolutely, code area could also be used for getting projects equipped with Oomph setups
- Also IP team F2F ... SWTbot testing ... manual testing ("hammer on the package") and similar
- Max: Good to identify things to try and do ... but be open for anything, depends much on who can be there
- Wayne: Have seen people who just "come and want to do something" thus having a list of desired items is good
- Dani: Still using bugday for Platform, currently have 200 of them
- Wayne: Continue using bugday, but might want another keyword for f2fbug or hackathon or similar
- Platform still does (virtual) bugdays on IRC, but not during release rampdown ... Wayne has some interest from Universities
- Eike: p2 improvements - working on some analysis tooling to better understand what's going on
- Looking for a very simple process to nominate bugs (eg plain message to mailing list) - not much ceremony needed
- AI All nominate issues
Feedback on Mars
- Denis: New and Noteworthy would be desired right in the IDE
- Wayne has done the global N&N as an ASCII doc .. might work with Packaging Project on integrating that into the IDE
- Eike: Revamp of Welcome might be a candidate for funding...
- Martin: Downloaded Offline Welcome versus "online only" welcome ?
- Wayne: Might not have to decide upfront ... seen online welcome with JBoss Tools for example
- Might want to re-think how welcome is done (today just shown at certain times ... many other apps have Welcome in the Editor Area)
- Wayne - Anecdotal: To improve the perception of Eclipse, we seem to be on the right trajectory
- Unfortunately, it's hard to trump the negative impact caused by the Google Announcement to drop ADK
- Generally, User Experience still very important
- Michael - Usability - Jetbrains Experience
- Install experience very important: notification about updates, getting a plugin should just work
- Eg suggest installing an editor based on file types in the Project Explorer
- Eike: Would be a great add-on for Oomph (probably add to the list of projects worth funding)
- Wayne: In the past, the EMO had to remain absolutely neutral ... now with the Board focus on UX, we have slightly more power to recommend things
- Example: Just look into a file
- Observing Coworkers - 50% using Emacs or Sublime, 50% using an IDE
- Download a file from Github and just look into the file ... hard with Eclipse !
- Martin: In many cases, just Syntax Highlighting might be sufficient
- Consider <a href="http://www.liclipse.com/">Liclipse</A> and <a href="http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/wfe-wordfile-editor">Wordfile Editor</a> as "simple editor plugins" that exist today
- Eclipse default behavior of "open in System Editor" is extremely annoying in many cases
- Consider Erich Gamma's talk on the Visual Studio Code Editor
- Dotfiles can be used if they exist, but they are not compulsory
- Or Tom's Editor ...
- Martin: Could the Orion solution (using Tern) maybe re-used ?
- Dani: Re-using Orion in a Browser might be an option
- Integrating Tern with JSDT would be interesting ... but resourcing (probably one option for EMO to sponsor)
- Is anybody actually using web-based tools in real life?
- Web-based is good for small projects ... for large projects, fast search, refactoring ... an IDE is still a better choice
- Commandline plus local editor are still popular (will probably continue for the next 5 years)
- Eike: Looking for Marcel to discuss a "bundles.info" file issue with mysterious NoSuchMethodError issues