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Difference between revisions of "Architecture Council/Meetings/July 9 2009"
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{|border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=1 | {|border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=1 | ||
| '''BIRT:''' | | '''BIRT:''' | ||
− | | Wenfeng Li | + | | <strike>Wenfeng Li</strike> |
− | | Gary Xue | + | | <strike>Gary Xue</strike> |
|- | |- | ||
| '''DTP:''' | | '''DTP:''' | ||
− | | Brian Fitzpatrick | + | | <strike>Brian Fitzpatrick</strike> |
| Linda Chan | | Linda Chan | ||
|- | |- | ||
| '''DSDP:''' | | '''DSDP:''' | ||
− | | Doug Gaff | + | | <strike>Doug Gaff</strike> |
| Martin Oberhuber | | Martin Oberhuber | ||
|- | |- | ||
| '''Eclipse:''' | | '''Eclipse:''' | ||
− | | Philippe Mulet | + | | <strike>Philippe Mulet</strike> |
| Mike Wilson | | Mike Wilson | ||
|- | |- | ||
| '''Modeling:''' | | '''Modeling:''' | ||
− | | Richard Gronback | + | | <strike>Richard Gronback</strike> |
− | | Ed Merks<br/>Cédric Brun | + | | Ed Merks<br/><strike>Cédric Brun</strike> |
|- | |- | ||
| '''RT:''' | | '''RT:''' | ||
− | | Jeff McAffer | + | | <strike>Jeff McAffer</strike> |
− | | Jochen Krause<br/>Tom Watson | + | | <strike>Jochen Krause</strike><br/><strike>Tom Watson</strike> |
|- | |- | ||
| '''STP:''' | | '''STP:''' | ||
− | | Oisin Hurley | + | | <strike>Oisin Hurley</strike> |
− | | Antoine Toulme | + | | <strike>Antoine Toulme</strike> |
|- | |- | ||
| '''Technology:''' | | '''Technology:''' | ||
− | | Gunnar Wagenknecht | + | | <strike>Gunnar Wagenknecht</strike> |
− | | Wayne Beaton | + | | <strike>Wayne Beaton</strike> |
|- | |- | ||
| '''Tools:''' | | '''Tools:''' | ||
Line 53: | Line 53: | ||
| '''TPTP:''' | | '''TPTP:''' | ||
| Eugene Chan | | Eugene Chan | ||
− | | Oliver Cole<br/>Joanna Kubasta | + | | <strike>Oliver Cole</strike><br/><strike>Joanna Kubasta</strike> |
|- | |- | ||
| '''WTP:''' | | '''WTP:''' | ||
− | | Tim deBoer | + | | <strike>Tim deBoer</strike> |
| Dave Carver | | Dave Carver | ||
|} | |} | ||
− | * '''Signed-up:''' | + | * '''Signed-up:''' Chris Aniszczyk, Dave Carver, Eugene Chan, Linda Chan, Adrian Colyer, Sven Efftinge, Neil Hauge, Bernd Kolb, Ed Merks, Martin Oberhuber, Doug Schaefer, Mike Wilson |
− | * '''Regrets:''' Mik Kersten (traveling), David Williams (conflict) | + | * '''Regrets:''' Doug Gaff (conflict), Oisin Hurley, Mik Kersten (traveling), Andrew Overholt (travelling), Mary Ruddy (travelling), Mark Vandenbrink, David Williams (conflict) |
− | * '''No-Show:''' | + | * '''No-Show:''' |
<!-- | <!-- | ||
Line 79: | Line 79: | ||
=== New Topics === | === New Topics === | ||
+ | ==== Release Naming ==== | ||
* '''[http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg00961.html Release Naming]''' | * '''[http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg00961.html Release Naming]''' | ||
+ | * Martin: This is just another incarnation of the "cross-project consistency vs. project individualism" | ||
+ | * Dave C: Alphabetical naming is more a marketing aspect... not in bundles or features, just on website etc | ||
+ | * Ed: Where do the names show up (only on web pages etc) e.g. "The Galileo Version of EMF" ... some bundles could even remain unchanged between releases | ||
+ | ** Putting release name into the qualifier is problematic | ||
+ | |||
+ | * '''What are the problems we are trying to solve?''' | ||
+ | ** Chris: Ensure that '''version numbers are always technical numbers''' (bundle, feature level) | ||
+ | *** Ed: That's a lot of work for EMF | ||
+ | *** Chris: It's easier than most people think | ||
+ | *** '''Agree: Promote using API tooling on bundle and feature level''' | ||
+ | *** '''AI Chris''' put together a quick howto, to promote things | ||
+ | *** Martin: most important thing to understand about technical versions is that it's always only about the deltas | ||
+ | |||
+ | * Sven: Add a common place for putting in the '''marketing version number''' (release level) | ||
+ | ** People get stuff from multiple places and want to know whether they are on the latest | ||
+ | ** Users only care about marketing number (in the about dialog) and never care about technical numbers | ||
+ | *** Martin: Make technical numbers less prominent in the about dialog; use the "Build ID" for the marketing number - advantage of build ID (in about.ini) is that it can be changed by a simple re-build without changing any code, and it is prominent in the about dialog | ||
+ | *** DougS: This is a good idea | ||
+ | *** Never mix marketing version(s) with technical version(s) | ||
+ | ** Sven: What about a new Manifest Entry (e.g. "Code Name") in the Bundles | ||
+ | *** We have to educate people how to put the marketing version number in, and Manifest Editor is more logical than the build ID in about.ini | ||
+ | *** Ed: changing code just for changing the version is painful | ||
+ | ** Would we allow bumping the major at the release level even without API breakage? | ||
+ | ** E.g. AspectJ: Adding new language features is a major new functionality even if API is not changed | ||
+ | ** ''Agree that marketing number (release version) is at the project's discretion'' | ||
+ | |||
+ | * Chris: How to talk to people about releases | ||
+ | ** Talk about train names: e.g. "Release n.n for Eclipse Ganymede" | ||
+ | ** What to do about multiple releases in one train cycle? | ||
+ | ** What to do with multiple Platform Streams in 1 year? -- McQ: Platform will make a decision which Stream (3.6 or 4.0 will show up in the train) -- so the train is an interesting distinguisher! - ''don't solve tomorrow's problems today'' | ||
+ | ** Could be multiple train names e.g. "AJDT version n.n for Eclipse Ganymede and Helios" | ||
+ | *** Most people know the platform version numbers better than the train code names | ||
+ | ** McQ: Picking up e4 or not will likely be a very organic process... | ||
+ | |||
+ | * '''AI Martin create bugzilla bug for continuing the discussion''' | ||
+ | |||
+ | ==== Maven ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | * Ed: Maven stuff for EMF, Maven Repositories for the Platform etc? | ||
+ | ** Bernd: Big discussion at SAP... | ||
+ | ** Should we have an official Maven Repo at Eclipse? | ||
+ | ** Just a structured file system (at S3 for instance) | ||
+ | ** Just talk to the Maven projects - '''AI Martin''' create a bug for the discussion | ||
+ | |||
+ | ==== Others ==== | ||
+ | |||
* '''[[Architecture Council/Open Issues|AC Bugzilla]]''' backlog | * '''[[Architecture Council/Open Issues|AC Bugzilla]]''' backlog | ||
− | * | + | ** Martin will look through the backlog and comment... request everyone else to look through the backlog too |
* '''Dave C''' AC should look at other Agile Principles can be employed (in addition to the Bugzilla practices) | * '''Dave C''' AC should look at other Agile Principles can be employed (in addition to the Bugzilla practices) | ||
+ | ** Defer to a future call, need Wayne on the call | ||
+ | * '''Follow-up on [[Architecture Council/Bugzilla Best Practices]] - how to move on?''' | ||
=== Old items === | === Old items === |
Revision as of 12:10, 9 July 2009
Meeting Title: | Architecture Council Monthly Meeting |
Date & Time: | Thursday July 9, 2009 at 1500 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin HTML | iCal |
Dial-in: | (+1) 613.287.8000 (Ottawa and international) or 866.362.7064 (toll-free North America) passcode 464440# |
Contents
Attendees
All AC Members are invited.
- PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
BIRT: | |
|
DTP: | |
Linda Chan |
DSDP: | |
Martin Oberhuber |
Eclipse: | |
Mike Wilson |
Modeling: | |
Ed Merks |
RT: | |
|
STP: | |
|
Technology: | |
|
Tools: | Doug Schaefer | |
TPTP: | Eugene Chan | |
WTP: | |
Dave Carver |
- Signed-up: Chris Aniszczyk, Dave Carver, Eugene Chan, Linda Chan, Adrian Colyer, Sven Efftinge, Neil Hauge, Bernd Kolb, Ed Merks, Martin Oberhuber, Doug Schaefer, Mike Wilson
- Regrets: Doug Gaff (conflict), Oisin Hurley, Mik Kersten (traveling), Andrew Overholt (travelling), Mary Ruddy (travelling), Mark Vandenbrink, David Williams (conflict)
- No-Show:
Agenda / Notes
- Feel free to edit, but not during the call!
Review of Last Meeting
- Architecture Council/Meetings/June 11 2009
- Still open items moved to #Action Items
New Topics
Release Naming
- Release Naming
- Martin: This is just another incarnation of the "cross-project consistency vs. project individualism"
- Dave C: Alphabetical naming is more a marketing aspect... not in bundles or features, just on website etc
- Ed: Where do the names show up (only on web pages etc) e.g. "The Galileo Version of EMF" ... some bundles could even remain unchanged between releases
- Putting release name into the qualifier is problematic
- What are the problems we are trying to solve?
- Chris: Ensure that version numbers are always technical numbers (bundle, feature level)
- Ed: That's a lot of work for EMF
- Chris: It's easier than most people think
- Agree: Promote using API tooling on bundle and feature level
- AI Chris put together a quick howto, to promote things
- Martin: most important thing to understand about technical versions is that it's always only about the deltas
- Chris: Ensure that version numbers are always technical numbers (bundle, feature level)
- Sven: Add a common place for putting in the marketing version number (release level)
- People get stuff from multiple places and want to know whether they are on the latest
- Users only care about marketing number (in the about dialog) and never care about technical numbers
- Martin: Make technical numbers less prominent in the about dialog; use the "Build ID" for the marketing number - advantage of build ID (in about.ini) is that it can be changed by a simple re-build without changing any code, and it is prominent in the about dialog
- DougS: This is a good idea
- Never mix marketing version(s) with technical version(s)
- Sven: What about a new Manifest Entry (e.g. "Code Name") in the Bundles
- We have to educate people how to put the marketing version number in, and Manifest Editor is more logical than the build ID in about.ini
- Ed: changing code just for changing the version is painful
- Would we allow bumping the major at the release level even without API breakage?
- E.g. AspectJ: Adding new language features is a major new functionality even if API is not changed
- Agree that marketing number (release version) is at the project's discretion
- Chris: How to talk to people about releases
- Talk about train names: e.g. "Release n.n for Eclipse Ganymede"
- What to do about multiple releases in one train cycle?
- What to do with multiple Platform Streams in 1 year? -- McQ: Platform will make a decision which Stream (3.6 or 4.0 will show up in the train) -- so the train is an interesting distinguisher! - don't solve tomorrow's problems today
- Could be multiple train names e.g. "AJDT version n.n for Eclipse Ganymede and Helios"
- Most people know the platform version numbers better than the train code names
- McQ: Picking up e4 or not will likely be a very organic process...
- AI Martin create bugzilla bug for continuing the discussion
Maven
- Ed: Maven stuff for EMF, Maven Repositories for the Platform etc?
- Bernd: Big discussion at SAP...
- Should we have an official Maven Repo at Eclipse?
- Just a structured file system (at S3 for instance)
- Just talk to the Maven projects - AI Martin create a bug for the discussion
Others
- AC Bugzilla backlog
- Martin will look through the backlog and comment... request everyone else to look through the backlog too
- Dave C AC should look at other Agile Principles can be employed (in addition to the Bugzilla practices)
- Defer to a future call, need Wayne on the call
- Follow-up on Architecture Council/Bugzilla Best Practices - how to move on?
Old items
- See also Architecture Council/Open Issues for overflow items that were not discussed
- News from the EMO and Councils ?
Action Items
- (old) Martin to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea
- (old) Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns, backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals
- While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse
- (old) Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
- (old) Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for Mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list
- (old) Tools and Tech PMC's to encourage incubating grandfathered projects find a mentor
- (old) Cedric, Tom talk to their PMCs about making AC representation official (can be 2 backup reps)
- (old) Martin to add Eclipsecon meeting notes onto the wiki
- Dave Carver to blog about bugzilla best practices
- Wayne to E-mail e.o-committers after that