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Difference between revisions of "Platform/summitece2017"

(Merge edit by Sebastian.monochromata.de)
(Added the minutes of the meeting.)
Line 1: Line 1:
 +
'''UPDATE''' : Thanks everyone for attending. Here are the minutes of the meeting.
 +
 +
- Java and Eclipse faster releases
 +
  - discussed about Java release story: name scheme and frequency changes
 +
  - notable feature in March Java release: Local Variable Type (var X = 5), March Java release means April for eclipse (would it be a 3a release?)
 +
  - Opinion from Planning Council is to make Platfrom releases every three months
 +
  - API breakage issues need to be considered if there are faster releases
 +
  - more quality expected per-patch as RC phase might be very short
 +
  - infrastructure problems if we release every three months were considered
 +
        - EF is there to help
 +
  - Sravan's work not effected for 3 months releases. It would be effected if we go to faster releases.
 +
  - Naming scheme not defined yet for faster releases.
 +
  - Decision? Agreement that we want them. Nothing definitely decided yet.
 +
  - Apparent consensus on quarterly releases
 +
  - 4.8 would be the first release to apply the 3 month release.
 +
  - No more backporting. All in master.
 +
  - Currently this is the plan, not yet a fact.
 +
  - Most 'leaf' projects already do it but rely on the fact that platform is stable.
 +
  - For that to go out public, first PMC has to agree on it.
 +
      - Decision by end of November is probable, end of December at the latest.
 +
  - Will there be one month of freeze for 3 month releases? NO.
 +
  - CQ work needs to be considered in the faster releases context
 +
- SWT Builds
 +
  - SWT builds which are on IBM machnies to move to EF machines
 +
  - Mickael Barbero has successfully built win deliverables arlready.
 +
  - Problem on IBM machine is that if build fails, no outside person has a chance to look at it.
 +
  - There's a dependency of main build to binary build.
 +
  - once it goes on EF it should not be a problem to interconnect them
 +
  - Can we have the build 'integrated'? i.e. one after another?
 +
        - platform dependency of native builds is an issue. Qualifiers not in sync.
 +
        - PPCs builds future was considered
 +
- What kind of automation we are missing in testing/releng?
 +
        - like just-merged automated failing on missing version bumps
 +
            - works for JDT?
 +
            -JDT.core NOT due to AP bundles
 +
        - tests in UI layer. Reorganize tests. Compare/UI have their tests misplaced.
 +
            - should be useful to fix these issues *** (emphasis requested)
 +
        - people are pushing without waiting for gerrits to succeed, even if there is failing tests/builds
 +
            - because of unstable tests and are considered as false positives.
 +
            - gerrit and main builds running both GTK3 show different results
 +
            - configuration of test runners, tests are run differently
 +
            - giant hacks to run main build tests from maven surefire
 +
            - why can not tycho do this as the code is the same?
 +
                - every test bundle would need an ant xml
 +
            - considerable effort : per-testbundle fixes.
 +
            - it needs to be considered how well it would work on contributor's machine
 +
        - Tests stability needs to be improved. Better disable tests that are making builds unstable, so people don't pick  up bad habbits with ignoring tests.
 +
        - e.g. BindingTests could be disabled
 +
        - Does it makes sense to use assume vs assert? It would hide the problem, test would be green but it's still dead.
 +
        - JUnit 5 migration was discussed.
 +
- How do you run maven builds on windows?
 +
        - Main build is run differently
 +
        - Have automated way to run SWT tests on windows/mac/linux
 +
        - Can we use win/mac to run Gerrits?
 +
              - From, EF side win machines should be easier to setup. Could be used for SWT.
 +
- Chromium integration inside SWT/Platform
 +
        - it is being tried to add chromium
 +
        - funds are there
 +
        - where do we put the project? Nebula?
 +
        - people have a PoC, will be sent on swt-dev
 +
        - is it targeted for 4.8? Needs to be discussed with SWT people before it becomes a reality.
 +
        - could be added to swt
 +
        - it brings CEF (Chromium Embedded Framework) which causes 80-100MB of additional size.
 +
        - How come there is RUST? Can we just use java/c?
 +
              - CEF is pretty agile so RUST needs to be there
 +
        - legal/license issues?
 +
              - compatible to be put under EF
 +
        - CEF needs to be in the users machine, so we don't pull the MBs -> IP and Size is not problem
 +
        - Post SWT-DEV
 +
        - Ready to get it? It needs more details.
 +
        - Not many people will have CEF by default.
 +
        - They release a couple of times per year
 +
        - Size is 80 MBs for all platforms
 +
- Anybody working on removing CVS?
 +
        - There's a bug on it
 +
        - There's a release engineer working on it now
 +
 +
At this point we did a round table of the attendees and their areas of focus/interest were mentioned as below:
 +
 +
- Accessibility support for GTK3
 +
        - being worked on, major effort
 +
        - Eclipse only IDE to care about it
 +
        - context menu UI glitches
 +
- Webkit integration work.
 +
        - almost done
 +
        - in a couple of months will webkit 2 will be default.
 +
        - after that remaining the black and white issues/hover issues
 +
        - Wayland windowing system
 +
        - GTK 4 is coming
 +
- flatpak support
 +
        - some swt changes could be needed
 +
        - benefits: a fixed GTK version, zip file is worse UX compared to flatpak, theming improvements also (by default no crazy theme)
 +
        - flatpak to unify rpm, deb
 +
        - flatpak builder has to be on builds machines at EF, maybe centOS or SUSE
 +
- Platform clean-up/test stabilization/
 +
- HiDPI issues on browser on linux has problems.
 +
- Stability of tests and builds is quite important
 +
- RED DEERs test are coming
 +
          - hard to use for SWT
 +
          - PDE has started to use it.
 +
- Java 9 and 18.3 is going to be targeted for Photon.
 +
          - source lookup
 +
          - debug protocol was discussed
 +
- Simplified user experience on SWT
 +
- Code cleanup is an ongoing effort
 +
- JUnit 4 migration needs to be revived
 +
- Dark theme is a hit
 +
- Tip of the Day needs to be revived
 +
- Improve JUnit 5. Java 9 needs improvements. Compatibility JU5/Java 9 support. Junit 5.1 is planned in couple of months.  Will have some major new features. Declarative test suites, java 9 support.  Do we have some kind of support for jconsole?  No.
 +
- Infra side: try to keep it up. Help on simrel side for releng. If there hard failures there's nothing we can do. Working on taking work load from the Canada people.
 +
- Code Caterpillar was mentioned as a gamification for people to learn Eclipse skills.
 +
- Discussion on browserinformationcontrol outside editors. Not huge interest. If someone wants to work on it, fine.
 +
- Native notifications.
 +
          - not feasible
 +
          - easy for simple display strings
 +
          - hard to have interactions, actions etc.
 +
- There is interest to make it possible not to persist an Eclipse 4 model element
 +
          - bug 378815
 +
- A freshening up the SWT documentation/project pages is needed
 +
 +
'''END UPDATE'''
 +
 
== Description ==
 
== Description ==
  

Revision as of 08:52, 1 November 2017

UPDATE : Thanks everyone for attending. Here are the minutes of the meeting. 

- Java and Eclipse faster releases
  - discussed about Java release story: name scheme and frequency changes
  - notable feature in March Java release: Local Variable Type (var X = 5), March Java release means April for eclipse (would it be a 3a release?)
  - Opinion from Planning Council is to make Platfrom releases every three months
  - API breakage issues need to be considered if there are faster releases
  - more quality expected per-patch as RC phase might be very short
  - infrastructure problems if we release every three months were considered
        - EF is there to help
  - Sravan's work not effected for 3 months releases. It would be effected if we go to faster releases.
  - Naming scheme not defined yet for faster releases.
  - Decision? Agreement that we want them. Nothing definitely decided yet.
  - Apparent consensus on quarterly releases
  - 4.8 would be the first release to apply the 3 month release.
  - No more backporting. All in master.
  - Currently this is the plan, not yet a fact.
  - Most 'leaf' projects already do it but rely on the fact that platform is stable.
  - For that to go out public, first PMC has to agree on it.
     - Decision by end of November is probable, end of December at the latest.
  - Will there be one month of freeze for 3 month releases? NO.
  - CQ work needs to be considered in the faster releases context
- SWT Builds
  - SWT builds which are on IBM machnies to move to EF machines
  - Mickael Barbero has successfully built win deliverables arlready.
  - Problem on IBM machine is that if build fails, no outside person has a chance to look at it. 
  - There's a dependency of main build to binary build. 
  - once it goes on EF it should not be a problem to interconnect them
  - Can we have the build 'integrated'? i.e. one after another?
       - platform dependency of native builds is an issue. Qualifiers not in sync. 
       - PPCs builds future was considered
- What kind of automation we are missing in testing/releng?
       - like just-merged automated failing on missing version bumps
           - works for JDT?
           	-JDT.core NOT due to AP bundles
       - tests in UI layer. Reorganize tests. Compare/UI have their tests misplaced.
           - should be useful to fix these issues *** (emphasis requested)
       - people are pushing without waiting for gerrits to succeed, even if there is failing tests/builds
           - because of unstable tests and are considered as false positives.
           - gerrit and main builds running both GTK3 show different results
           - configuration of test runners, tests are run differently
           - giant hacks to run main build tests from maven surefire
           - why can not tycho do this as the code is the same?
                - every test bundle would need an ant xml
           - considerable effort : per-testbundle fixes.
           - it needs to be considered how well it would work on contributor's machine
        - Tests stability needs to be improved. Better disable tests that are making builds unstable, so people don't pick   up bad habbits with ignoring tests.
        - e.g. BindingTests could be disabled
        - Does it makes sense to use assume vs assert? It would hide the problem, test would be green but it's still dead.
        - JUnit 5 migration was discussed.
- How do you run maven builds on windows?
        - Main build is run differently
        - Have automated way to run SWT tests on windows/mac/linux
        - Can we use win/mac to run Gerrits?
              - From, EF side win machines should be easier to setup. Could be used for SWT.
- Chromium integration inside SWT/Platform
        - it is being tried to add chromium
        - funds are there
        - where do we put the project? Nebula?
        - people have a PoC, will be sent on swt-dev
        - is it targeted for 4.8? Needs to be discussed with SWT people before it becomes a reality.
        - could be added to swt
        - it brings CEF (Chromium Embedded Framework) which causes 80-100MB of additional size.
        - How come there is RUST? Can we just use java/c?
             - CEF is pretty agile so RUST needs to be there
        - legal/license issues?
             - compatible to be put under EF
        - CEF needs to be in the users machine, so we don't pull the MBs -> IP and Size is not problem
        - Post SWT-DEV
        - Ready to get it? It needs more details.
        - Not many people will have CEF by default.
        - They release a couple of times per year
        - Size is 80 MBs for all platforms
- Anybody working on removing CVS?
        - There's a bug on it
        - There's a release engineer working on it now

At this point we did a round table of the attendees and their areas of focus/interest were mentioned as below: 

- Accessibility support for GTK3
        - being worked on, major effort
        - Eclipse only IDE to care about it
        - context menu UI glitches
- Webkit integration work.
        - almost done
        - in a couple of months will webkit 2 will be default.
        - after that remaining the black and white issues/hover issues
        - Wayland windowing system
        - GTK 4 is coming
- flatpak support
        - some swt changes could be needed
        - benefits: a fixed GTK version, zip file is worse UX compared to flatpak, theming improvements also (by default no crazy theme)
        - flatpak to unify rpm, deb
        - flatpak builder has to be on builds machines at EF, maybe centOS or SUSE
- Platform clean-up/test stabilization/
- HiDPI issues on browser on linux has problems. 
- Stability of tests and builds is quite important
- RED DEERs test are coming
         - hard to use for SWT
         - PDE has started to use it.
- Java 9 and 18.3 is going to be targeted for Photon.
         - source lookup
         - debug protocol was discussed
- Simplified user experience on SWT
- Code cleanup is an ongoing effort
- JUnit 4 migration needs to be revived
- Dark theme is a hit
- Tip of the Day needs to be revived
- Improve JUnit 5. Java 9 needs improvements. Compatibility JU5/Java 9 support. Junit 5.1 is planned in couple of months.   Will have some major new features. Declarative test suites, java 9 support.  Do we have some kind of support for jconsole?  No.
- Infra side: try to keep it up. Help on simrel side for releng. If there hard failures there's nothing we can do. Working on taking work load from the Canada people.
- Code Caterpillar was mentioned as a gamification for people to learn Eclipse skills.
- Discussion on browserinformationcontrol outside editors. Not huge interest. If someone wants to work on it, fine.
- Native notifications.
          - not feasible
          - easy for simple display strings
          - hard to have interactions, actions etc.
- There is interest to make it possible not to persist an Eclipse 4 model element
          - bug 378815
- A freshening up the SWT documentation/project pages is needed

END UPDATE

Description

Webpage: https://www.eclipsecon.org/europe2017/schedule_item/eclipse-platform-summit

The Eclipse Platform Summit at EclipseCon Europe 2017 is a one-day Eclipse Platform & Related Tools Summit that will be held at before the main conference. This is a chance for Eclipse Platform users and extenders, old and new, to get together to collaborate and drive the future direction of the Eclipse platform project.

The goal of this day is to exchange information, get a global vision of what we would like to have, and to open the relevant bugs to work on. We will have discussions around the Eclipse Platform architecture and possible enhancements we could do for the next release. Of course this group is also the place to be for Eclipse platform committers, to meet with each other and to share ideas. Watch this space for other related Platform activities at EclipseCon Europe (BOFs, hackathons, etc).

General info

Time/Location Monday October 23rd 2016, Ludwigsburg, Germany, located at EclipseCon Europe, Forum am Schlosspark

From 9:00 to 12:30, Seminarraum 5

Registration Attendees please add your name to the list below and register for the Unconference: https://www.eclipsecon.org/europe2017/registration

If you are registering for the full conference, choose the Unconference as an additional item when you register. If you are attending the Unconference by itself, choose "Unconference only" when registering.

Attendees List

  • Mikael Barbero (Eclipse Foundation)
  • Dani Megert (IBM Research GmbH)
  • Alexander Kurtakov (Red Hat Inc.)
  • Leo Ufimtsev (Red Hat Inc.)
  • Eric Williams (Red Hat Inc.)
  • Andrey Loskutov (Advantest Europe GmbH)
  • Lakshmi Shanmugam (IBM)
  • Noopur Gupta (IBM)
  • Sarika Sinha (IBM)
  • Frederic Gurr (Eclipse Foundation)
  • Sebastian Lohmeier

Proposed Agenda

Retrieved from "https://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php?title=Platform/summitece2017&oldid=420257"

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