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= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
'''October 16, 2013''' - John, Dani, Andrew, Martin
 
* Dani: '''Good progress on Java 8''' - {{bug|380190}} compiler work done - going to send something
 
* Martin: {{bug|402509}} Context Menu Filtering : Paul set to 4.4 for discussion as part of UI review; Martin still interested, could help with some resources (testing, or even implementation when architectural guidance is given)
 
* '''IDE Working Group''' ([[IDE Working Group Proposal]])
 
** John: from PMC point of view, a good thing: sponsored contributors would be just like another group of contributors
 
** Some companies prefer making code contributions but for other companies this is very impractical and might work better with a [http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130603225716/leagueoflegends/images/6/66/Iffem_shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg shut up and take my money] model.
 
* Andrew: '''Krzystof Daniel for commit rights on p2'''
 
** It appears to be resolved already but we hope it doesn't have to come to this in the future.
 
** Recent studies show that timely responses within 1 day (even "we'll respond in a month") will dramatically increase engagement
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''December 17, 2014''' - McQ, John, Dani
'''October 9, 2013''' - John, Dani, Andrew, Martin
+
* Platform UI leadership to be discussed in the next PMC call
* John: '''Builds''' - looks like things are under control
+
* no call on December 24 and December 31
* John: '''Help System Security Bug''' - {{bug|418443}} only when help server is run on https, thus not an issue when run locally
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''October 2, 2013''' - McQ, John, Dani
+
'''December 10, 2014''' - Alex, McQ, John, Dani, Martin
* no discussion topics
+
* Dani: {{bug|427768}} Mickael (Red Hat) - Nested Project support contribution to Common Navigator to better support Maven projects
 +
* Dani: Red Hat also will wants to contribute making the Import easier {{bug|421930}}. First in the e4 incubator.
 +
** Just import from a folder, and contribute project configurators via extension point (e.g. detect POM files, Makefiles, ...)
 +
** McQ: Many complexities ... different users may want very different things to happen
 +
*** McQ: Just point to a Git repo -- the Git repo has a little metadata file at the root which allows launching the apps that the repo had been intended for ... maybe just make the project tree(s) a little more self-describing
 +
*** Is there a growing list of repos which already have that? - John: In the Java world, pom.xml is getting that ...
 +
*** Alex: .doap getting this (at least for Apache and GNOME projects - specifies at least the languages used)
 +
* Web IDEs : McQ and others gone through a lot of analysis of Web IDE's
 +
** Cloud9 has a much larger set of starting points ; in terms of the underlying core structure, Orion (and also Jay) are more interesting
 +
** Orion has an extremely lightweight plug-in model: pieces coming from all over the world may look like all running on the server - nice infrastructure for building Community around it
 +
** Orion + Flux could be a rival for anything out there
 +
** Orion continues to push on the Core Coding experience - Orion Editor is on par or better than most desktop editors
 +
* Vision: See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-vision/msg00065.html Minutes on the platform-vision mailing list] ... Delivery will depend on people actually participating
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 25, 2013''' - McQ, Andrew, Martin, John
+
'''December 3, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, John (McQ travelling)
* Andrew: '''Commercial Support Thread''' - Directory of consultants to effect change when needed
+
* John: [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-vision/ Platform Vision] - How to turn that into actionable items, Wayne wants to present to the Board
** Foundation to employ developers to "do whatever is best for the Platform" : Who decides on features, and where does the funding come from ?
+
* John: '''Performance tests''' running again since a couple weeks, now the graphs are also back again :)
** There is precedent of Foundations employing developers... but don't think that "developers for hire" model could work
+
** See http://download.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/drops4/I20141202-0800/performance.php
 
+
** Results are there but fingerprints currently missing
* Martin: '''ide-dev''' discussion
+
** Baseline is 4.4.0 at the moment (consider comparing against 3.x at some point)
** A Platform team tries to come up with features and architecture that they think is valuable...  
+
** John: From experience, a single result isn't helpful, there's often weird anomalies from build to build ... need to look at trends over multiple builds, thus the graphs are really useful
** but there's not the same drive towards a product / UX that a commercial product has
+
** Because of the nature how we do things, it's harder to get to a polished UX
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 18, 2013''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''November 26, 2014''' - Alex, Dani
* Mozilla: Orion vs CodeMirror as Editor - Speed of progressing on Editor features, Community size ?
+
* No relevant topics / decisions
** CodeMirror addons can't be absorbed at Orion (licenses, provenance, etc.)
+
** Can we prove that the Orion editor is better ?
+
** What matters is our amount of commitment to "Development in the Cloud"
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 11, 2013''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
'''November 19, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, Dani (''McQ and John had issues dialing in'')
* John: '''RC4''' navigaton history fix ({{bug|416902}}) - review
+
* Dani: '''Jetty 9''' - Upgrade has been done, but new versions coming out ... will probably update from Jetty 9.2.3 to Jetty 9.2.5. Probably 9.3
* McQ: Focusing Ottawa on Orion
+
** WTP interested in newer Jetty version ... need to agree on a common version across the Release Train.
* Martin: '''[[E4/Scripting]]''' progress. Homepage has links onto Requirements, EclipseCon Europe talk and more
+
** Alex: New Jetty JSP compiler failing ... filed a bug, will want this fixed (Jetty working on it)
** McQ: Overlap with RAP when JavaScript is being used ?
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|179924}} Request for ssh-agent''' - patch against Team from YMNK (JSch Committer)
* John: Krzystof Daniel of Red Hat for committer / component lead
+
** egit would contribute the agent, but would make more sense putting it in Platform (+1 from Martin, no objection from Alex)
 +
* Equinox Declarative Services implementation - ProSyst stopped providing fixes, not responsive any more
 +
** New specificiation (R6) from OSGi adding lot of features, cannot risk staying behind
 +
** Suggestion to remove the ProSyst stuff and replace it with the Apache Felix implementation (used by IBM / WebSphere and others)
 +
** Martin: How mature / stable is the Felix code ? Can we influence it ?
 +
*** Dani: Very mature. Have more influence on Felix than on the Prosyst stuff ... through the IBM committers and others.
 +
*** Alex agrees. Using some parts of Felix already.
 +
* John (via Dani): '''Move e4 into Platform/UI''' - would like to start the review process next week.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 4, 2013''' - No meeting
+
'''November 5, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* Eclipse Foundation greatbugs initiative - call into PMC
 +
* Dani: EclipseCon Europe Report - met lot of people, best attended EclipseCon Europe ever :)
 +
** IOT; IDE in the Web; are people moving away from Eclipse before the transition to Web can be completed ?
 +
* Alex: Discussion with Christian Campo on scaling up
 +
** Should better go into SWT ... but SWT has a reputation that it's hard getting a change in -- people prefer re-doing things their own than contributing :(
 +
** Alex thinks this problem doesn't exist any more ... but how to fight this misconception ?
 +
** John: Getting a change in may now be hard due to other reasons, eg lack of experienced committers
 +
** Alex: Consider voting in new committers more easily if somebody is interested ?
 +
* Alex: Difference between Eclipse and the Linux Foundation
 +
** Linux Foundation doesn't provide anything that anybody can use directly (just a source tarball) --&gt; all users become "contributors" of some sort
 +
** This leads to different expectations and has a number advantages (eg issues are reported to and worked on by member companies only)
  
'''August 28, 2013''' - Dani, John, Martin
+
'''October 22, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, John
* Dani: '''Stardust adding features to SR1''' - Planning Council exception - no objections
+
* Platform plan update nearly done, will be released soon
* John: '''language tooling on [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ide-dev/ ide-dev]''' - where to host the work ?
+
* Orion release review is ongoing, release will be next week
** Eclipse project/e4 proposed
+
* Brief discussion of new bug reporting tool and related bug [https://dev.eclipse.org/recommenders/committers/dashboard/#/dashboard/temp/e6leTB3gQy-zUZI-73KtRQ dashboard]
** Dani: '''What's the goal?''' - make it easier adding new languages, or refactor existing projects ?
+
* PMC called '''canceled''' next week due to EclipseCon Europe
*** Martin interested in cross-language crossreferencing
+
 
**** Lua tooling / C bindings, Java/JNI, Python C bindings, TCF, CORBA generated stubs/proxies, ...
+
'''October 1, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ
*** Easier to create tooling for JVM-based languages
+
* Dani - In touch with Oracle regarding Solaris x86
*** Common support for refactoring
+
* McQ - '''Platform UI''' tension between making Platform UI as stable as possible, versus new features
*** ...
+
** Community forming for new contributions - that's great! - But takes committer's time; committers reduced to "productize and fix" is problematic
** AC could be involved - makes sense for AC to be involved in a working group
+
** how to get more contributions for bug fixes ?
*** In the end, it boils down to who steps up writing code
+
*** Alex: What about saying "This release we only accept bug fixes" ? Or for some milestone, eg after M4 only accept bug fixes ?
* Martin: short update on scripting-dev ... making progress, code has been provided, e4 proposed as a home, no feedback yet
+
*** Dani: Sounds great, but will the Community accept that ? - JDT BugBash did not work that well...
 +
*** Dani to prepare a draft message
 +
* Dani was in Bangalore - talked to Arun - good collaboration with Alex
 +
** Hard to get new SWT developers (Sami moving away on RH side)
 +
** Ideas to keep SWT relevant ... eg generate Browser based things
 +
*** GTK3 supports running in a browser now... (just one label for now, but an interesting approach)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 21, 2013''' - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin
+
'''September 24, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, John, Martin
* Dani: '''Still need the links to the torrents?''' Can we measure usage of torrents ? "Eclipse SDK" traffic is low these days anyways, would make sense for EPP only if ever
+
* John: '''SWT Binaries Repository''' has got too big
* Martin: Some traffic these days on the [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-scripting-dev/ eclipse-scripting-dev] mailing list
+
** Will prune old versions out of the git repository (which is only used internally) - "Release" drops will still be available from release builds.
** John: Some UI would likely be simpler with e4 now ...  
+
** '''DECISION:''' OK to prune.
** e4 would be a possible initial place for the project (incubator), initial basic hooks could even be put into the Platform
+
* '''SWT master still has sources for old Platforms''' like carbon and motif - cluttering up the source code
* Luna M1 went pretty well
+
** '''DECISION:''' OK to remove references - source would remain in git for old branches, but not be visible in master any more.
 +
* Dani: '''p2 and Equinox''' - no sign-off for M2, leaders stepping down ?
 +
** consider moving p2 back into Equinox, and probably Equinox back into the Eclipse project ?
 +
** John: Equinox committers not really knowledgeable about p2 ... still, with less than 3 active committers a threshold is reached (can't hold elections any more)
 +
** Still there's a couple of people contributing, so there are knowledgeable folk around
 +
** Dani: If there's committers committing code, they should also be responsible for sign-off
 +
* Dani: '''Java 7 and Jetty 9'''
 +
** Been using Jetty 8 for a while, now, there is Community Pressure upgrading to Jetty 9 but that requires Java 7
 +
** Java 6 no longer getting public updates since February 2013
 +
** John:Adoptions needed in the Help System when moving to Jetty 9 ?
 +
*** Alex don't think so - been shipping Jetty 9 for over a year already; only required changing some dependencies.
 +
*** '''ACTION ITEM: Alex offered to check this'''
 +
* Alex: '''Drop all the Java 6 Platforms from the list of Reference Platforms?'''
 +
** '''DECISION:''' Yes this needs to be done. Trying to support Java 6 won't buy any benefit at this point.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 14, 2013''' - Dani, Andrew
+
'''September 17, 2014''' - no meeting
* Dani: no changes to release pace for Luna. For details see [[Planning_Council/August_7_2013]]
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 7, 2013''' - Dani, Andrew, Martin, McQ
+
'''September 10, 2014''' - John, Martin, Alex, Dani
* Dani - '''Moving to more frequent releases''' to be discussed at the PC today
+
* John: Mars having some build hickups due to removing Mac 32-bit builds
** McQ believes that aggregating monthly releases into a train can't work given the size of the train, so the monthly release wouldn't be useful to anyone
+
* John: Luna SR1 - almost done, respinning for 2 bugs in Equinox
** Martin agrees that as a commercial adopter, stability (of the yearly train) is key: new features are interesting in one or two projects but not in the train
+
* John: Cloud TLP (for Orion and others) - still on track for announcing end October
** Moving faster with the train can't be at the expense of no longer getting backports of bugfixes to those releases that I have chosen to adopt !
+
* Alex: Been busy with other stuff recently, back on the GTK version support discussion this week
** McQ: No more SR releases, but only converge the development streams every 4 months ? - Backports could be made but adopters would have to build themselves.
+
** Martin: Many people will know what distro they have (or need), but not what GTK they have on there
* What causes most grief when adopting a new Platform version ?
+
*** John: Also running GTK on AIX, Solaris, Linux Power and other which are not moving up that fast...
** Notifications have proven most problematic .. on either Resource / project system or XML / EMF models: subtle change of behavior can have a big impact when notifications trigger other notifications
+
*** Martin: Examples: RHEL 5.8 was GTK 2.10.4-21 ; RHEL 4.5 was at GTK 2.4.13-22
*** Can it be fixed with a community effort ? [Not sure, most problems are in layers on top of the platform...]
+
*** Popular distros would be Ubuntu LTS, RHEL, OpenSUSE
 +
** Alex: Newer distros have up to 3 GTK versions installed, along with some means to switch between them, it's very confusing
 +
** Eclipse is the only project that dynamically loads DLL's and tries to support a broad range ... others typically compile against a specific version
 +
*** Most projects require GTK 2.24
 +
** John: GTK versions are not really predictable ... between 3.04 and 3.10 there was a breaking change
 +
** Alex: In every release there are small issues that we work around; and there's certain releases that are breaking stuff
 +
** '''NEXT ACTION: Send E-Mail'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 31, 2013''' - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin
+
'''September 3, 2014''' - John, Alex, Dani
* ide-dev list : "Eclipse as an IDE" from a cross project / cross PMC point of view
+
* Dani: away next week and on/off the next two weeks due to travel
** Tools + Equinox + Packages ...
+
* Dani: RC4 next week. PMC please watch the PMC mailing list
* The "Uber Package..."
+
** John: will be available and monitor the mailing list
** Not recommendable. Better to improve Marketplace ... not all Train projects are on the Marketplace.
+
* Dani: Oracle interested in providing access to a Solaris 64-bit machine {{bug|442266}}
** Dani: As per the downloads page, it looks like the standard package doesn't have marketplace client ? - Martin: might be filtered; might be worth a bug if not visible.
+
* John: How/where to graduate the e4 tools
*** filed {{bug|414305}}
+
** the community wants to graduate this out of incubation
* Looking forward to discussions on ide-dev.
+
** initially proposed to create a separate project, but feels like adding too much overhead
 +
** John: proposed PDE as home, then Dani suggested to use Platform UI
 +
** Alex, Dani and John agree to suggest Platform UI as home for the e4 tools.
 +
** John to send a note to Lars
 +
* Alex: Limit supported number of GTK+ versions
 +
** SWT currently has to support over 20 different version. This doesn't scale.
 +
** Proposal: Bump min supported version with one minor release each release. Aka Luna has Gtk 2.10 as min, Mars would have 2.12 as min. Can consider even two minor releases (Mars requires 2.14) as this would keep the amount of supported versions the same as GTK releases one minor release every 6 months.
 +
** Dani, John: this is too limiting. We tended to support the most possible. Newest versions might have too many bugs.
 +
** All agree: we'd like to limit the amount of supported versions
 +
** Alex to cast a poll via Eclipse Foundation, which versions are used by users and companies
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 24, 2013''' - McQ, Dani, John
 
* Brief planning discussion. Kepler SR1 end-game plan released. Luna M1 is August 9th.
 
* We will resume architecture team meetings on August 7th. John to remind team next week.
 
* John will be away Aug 1-16
 
  
'''July 17, 2013''' - McQ, Dani, John, Andrew
+
'''August 27, 2014''' - cancelled
* Brief discussion of the "code smells" thread on cross-project list
+
* Overall positive discussion and we hope to see good things come out of it
+
  
'''June 26, 2013''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew, John
+
<hr/>
* Andrew: '''Orion Browser API Standardization'''
+
 
* John: '''More process around Kepler Maintenance Stream''' - 1 reviewer, similar to RC1 ?
+
'''August 20, 2014''' - John, Alex, Dani
 +
* Dani: new platform PowerPC 64-bit LE {{bug|441358 }}
 +
** maintained by IBM
 +
** will be added to 4.4.1 as early access
 +
** Dani to send a note to cross-platform
 +
* Dani: individual made patches to support Solaris 64-bit {{bug|442266}}
 +
** we'd like to add it but don't have a machine to support it
 +
** important because our current 32-bit Solaris build will become obselete since there's no 32-bit JRE for Java 7 and beyond
 +
** Oracle should be interested since they provide both, Java and Solaris
 +
** Dani to ask Oracle
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 19, 2013''' - John, Dani, Martin
+
 
* John/Dani: '''Kepler Retrospect'''
+
'''August 13, 2014''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
** JDT Versioning: Bundles and features at 3.10 for Luna, Marketing version at 4.4
+
* Dani: Any feedback for the [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_5.xml Mars plan]?
** Freeze Plan: Worked fine for Platform, but others on the Train didn't quite play by the rules
+
** McQ:
*** Dani to replace John on the Planning Council (phone meeting once per month)
+
*** It does not cover Orion, but that is OK and like in previous release plans. Orion will most likely be moved to another top-level project soon.
* '''Rules of Engagement for Maintenance Releases'''
+
*** We want to remove Mac OS X Universal 32-bit (all agreed)
** JDT is in the middle of a release cycle, since doing Java 8
+
* Dani: How to deal with requests to push our bundles to repo.eclipse.org {{bug|441530}}
* {{Bug|411132}} '''Security Advisory''' regarding raw Javadoc - Eclipse help system not vulnerable, suggest improving the docs around "Help" setting to disallow opening external links
+
** Dani: OK for me but we won't do the work
 +
** Alex: Maven needs the dependencies in the pom.xml. We don't want copy them from the manifest into the pom.xml and then maintain this. The pom should be updated when publishing the file into the Maven repo. Ideally by an automated task.
 +
** Conclusion: all agree with this, i.e. we won't do the actual work and we won't "pollute" our pom files.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 12, 2013''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani, Andrew
+
'''August 6, 2014''' - McQ, Dani
* John: '''EclipseCon France Report''' - 2 day board meeting was good: strategic planning for what the Foundation should focus on
+
* Dani: Will provide initial Mars plan next week
* Dani: 4.3 ramp-down looks good ... but other projects on the release train ship significant changes late ?!?
+
 
* Dani: Java 8 looking good
+
* John: Planning - e4 vs compatibility layer
+
** McQ: Because we want e4 to be a complete Platform, it makes sense to look at our own editors and see what it takes to have them run on pure e4
+
** But that's on a case-by-case basis only
+
** There's still a lot of confusion around e4
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 29, 2013''' - Dani, Andrew, Martin
+
'''No meetings in July'''
* Dani: '''4.3 Release Update''' - looking good, some minor doc fixes only for RC4.
+
 
* Martin: '''4.3 Standard Package''' with egit and mpc - also looking good.
+
** Minor binary diffs traced down to an "encoding" flag in the JAR format which is not significant (see {{bug|408944}})
+
** Automated comparison of SDK against EPP are still possible when unzipping all Jar's and comparing the contents (actually listing contents with unzip -v is also fine)
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 22, 2013''' - Dani, Martin, John, McQ
+
'''Jun 4, 2014''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex
* John: '''4.3 Update''' - still 100 bugs open with 4.3 target milestone, need a reminder
+
* Dani: '''RC4 Status''' looking good
** There's still some [[Platform_UI/Plan/4.3 | Platform/UI 4.3 Backlog]] - some keybindings, activation, about dlg; need to make some decisions what's in or what's out
+
** 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
** Don't work on the list until the last day ... for any 2 bugs fixed, there's probably 1 introduced so need to ramp down
+
** Rest of the team working on docs
** Release review: Docs, N&N looking good
+
** Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
* Google Android announcement - IntelliJ is well integrated and polished, but Eclipse has more plugins ... the 2 concepts are somewhat at odds
+
* John: '''Went over the N&N''' ... number of things went in after M7 :)
** Just one in the large ecosystem - but need to watch for a trend of others moving away
+
** Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 15, 2013''' - Dani, Martin, John, McQ
+
'''Jun 11, 2014''' - Martin, McQ, Alex, John
* John: Switching focus from Orion to Eclipse Platform for the endgame - will be away first week of June
+
* John: Eclipse Theming: When switching the OS Theme to dark, Eclipse should be aware
* Mike Milinkovich did a demo on Orion in the Zurich lab and at the Eclipse Stammtisch Zurich
+
** Dark Theme is currently a tech preview
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 8, 2013''' - Dani, Martin, John, Andrew, McQ
+
'''Jun 4, 2014''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex
* Dani: {{bug|403149}} '''Removing Tycho Dependency''' - AI John comment on the bug
+
* Dani: '''RC4 Status''' looking good
** Martin would like to see a simple Doc page somewhere that explains how to fix the versions
+
** 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
** Dani thinks that any serious build would update pom versions automatically as part of the build
+
** Rest of the team working on docs
* Martin: {{bug|402509}} context menu filtering - request gentle nudge
+
** Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
* John: Will '''switch to Asterisk''' for the PMC from next week on - '''AI McQ''' update the invite
+
* John: '''Went over the N&N''' ... number of things went in after M7 :)
 +
** Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 1, 2013''' - John, Dani, Andrew, McQ
+
'''May 28, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
* John: LTS now running IBM Juno maintenance builds in LTS forge. Some small details still being worked out.
+
* Dani: '''EOL'ing the Delta Pack''' - announce now, remove during Mars - it's been obsoleted by p2 functionality
* Dani: Gerrit can be configured to deny non-fast-forward merges. We agreed to request that all Eclipse project Gerrit repositories be configured in this way. See {{bug|402791}} for details.
+
** Alex: Some of the test suite relied on the delta pack, it caused issues, OK with removing (PDE tests would need to be cleaned up)
* Dani: Request for JUnit bundle to stop re-exporting Hamcrest bundle. Hamcrest was originally part of JUnit so this was done for compatibility reasons. We agreed that we will not do this because it breaks all users of JUnit bundle. See {{bug|403676}} for details.
+
* Dani: '''Copyright Updates''' - tool is very slow since not ported from CVS properly, can run for hours
 +
** John: Worth doing periodically but probably won't matter legally since copyright lasts for 7 years
 +
** The change is not without risk (Dani: Could schedule after the release)
 +
** McQ: Should consider updating the tool as part of that work
 +
** Alex: Has a new intern, could use this as an opportunity to join
 +
* Dani: '''RC3 status''' - last planned build - looking good, except for Platform UI, where the list of bugs is still long
 +
* McQ: Discussions about a new Eclipse.org Web-based Toplevel Project
 +
 
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''May 14, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
 +
* Alex: SWT GTK3 and the Endgame Rules
 +
* Dani: Luna Plan Update
 +
* John: New Dashboard created by the EMO
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 24, 2013''' - John, Dani, Martin
+
'''May 7, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, John, Martin
* Dani: '''Upload Freeze Plan'''
+
* Martin {{bug|241957}} - GTK clipboard hang
* Dani: '''Java 8 Update'''
+
** Alex: GTK guys recommended using the async API, but no time for more investigation
* John: '''Pawel stepping down as Platform/Debug Lead'''
+
** McQ: Switching a sync API to async implementation underneath can be extremely messy (need to be aware of all possible events and event sources...)
** Leaves Pin & Clone orphaned for next year. Working sets for expression view also not in Kepler.
+
** McQ: If there is an idea canceling the clipboard wait ... given that the issue occurs only rarely, even a hacky solution is better than nothing
 +
* Dani: will do a plan update, hopefully this week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 17, 2013''' - John, Dani, Martin
+
'''April 30, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
* Martin: '''New Classic Package''' - Will commit SDK branding, and Egit Capability def
+
* McQ: '''WB4 perspective customization''' - has it caused any issues ?
** CSS - Should inherit proper styling from Platform (most probably OK)
+
** Martin: Dealing with detached views works differently (dragging a window fails - must drag the tab inside the window)
* John: '''API Baselines''' - remind teams to set API baselines
+
** Dani: Saved perspectives / windows are lost on an existing workspace when moving from 3.x to 4.x
* Martin: {{bug|402509}} context menu filtering - request gentle nudge
+
*** Martin/McQ: When crossing the major version boundary, it is OK to lose state - it's not nice but acceptable
* John: [[Platform_UI/Plan/4.3 |Triage of Platform UI issues to be addressed]]
+
** Dani: The bigger problem is, that the whole "Perspective customization" dialog is still not working as expected
 +
*** Martin: Agree with the concern, but the Perspective customization dialog wasn't ever great
 +
*** McQ: If invest work here, rather make it good than bring back the previous status quo
 +
*** Martin: Most customization done via plugin.xml / Java , don't expect end users to do a lot of customization themselves
 +
* Dani: '''M7 status'''
 +
** Defect triage under control - some items deferred to 4.5
  
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 3, 2013''' - McQ, Dani, John, Andrew
+
'''April 23, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin
* John: Kepler draft plan update ready, please take a look and provide comments
+
* Alex - GTK2 or GTK3 as default - GTK3 it is
* We discussed EclipseCon. It was a very good event for Eclipse project. On desktop community is moving forward on Eclipse 4. There was lots of good feedback, and very little grumbling. Orion was very well represented, lots of talks and demos from several companies adopting it.
+
** GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to
 +
*** xulrunner - latest version not supported by swt and latest distros don't even ship standalone xulrunner
 +
*** webkitgtk - gtk2 version in maintenance mode, upstream consider dropping, really crashy See [https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-gtk/2014-March/001821.html]
 +
** GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
 +
** McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
 +
* Dani - '''Freeze Plan created'''
 +
* John - '''Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret'''
 +
*
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 20, 2013''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''April 16, 2014''' - Dani, Alex
* Dani: '''Java 8''' - jdt.core making very good progress - almost everything compiles in the editor
+
* no topics today
* Dani: '''pom files update''' - to be discussed in the arch call
+
* Martin: {{bug|402509}} '''Context Menus''' - no feedback, ping again
+
* Martin: {{bug|145635}} '''Pin & Clone'''
+
** Dani - the feature itself is good and makes sense, would also like it in JDT
+
** '''The UI metaphor is new and would need some testing in the Field''' - McQ would like the patch in ASAP in a way that doesn't cause more swirl to start experimenting
+
** CDT would need to adopt it, upstream changes needed
+
** Current implementation showed quite a lot of ripples and bugs
+
*** Current impl breaks existing workflows, that's the big problem
+
** John: only 1 milestone left, if it appears in M7 and breaks any adopters they have little time to react;
+
*** Can loop-in JDT and CDT, but there might be others ...
+
*** Was PTP involved in any way ? They could also be broken, they have very special requirements
+
** McQ: Do we have ownership of this work ? - If we have a clear need and a clear owner working on it we could give it a try
+
** '''AI Martin''' (1) Clarify with CDT why they didn't like the feature and what are their plans; all the rest comes after that eg PTP, Pawel, can it be done in a non-breaking way
+
* John: {{bug|402912}} '''Significant Memory Leak in M6''' fixed this week: noticable if eclipse running for a long time
+
** Workaround for M6: Turn off Workbench Autosave feature by setting it to 0
+
** ''AI Post to cross-project'' - people doing demos at Eclipsecon might want to use the workaround
+
* Martin: {{bug|397896}} '''New Classic Package''' - initial package done but unusable while the SDK branding bundle's contents is not migrated
+
** Martin will continue pushing for this to happen - fallback would be not
+
** Not much risk in judging whether it's good or not, only binary diff needed
+
* John: {{bug|380325}} '''Java 7 filesystem fragment'''
+
** McQ do we know performance implications, could we get rid of the native bundles ?
+
** Martin would like to have the fragment in all builds, to make it easier to test performance etc implications
+
* Martin: {{bug|403589}} '''eclipse.inf'''
+
** Different binary bits depending on distribution channel is bad ... Tycho removed
+
** Defect in post-processing (why does it add eclipse.inf) or defect in bundle preparation (why isn't eclipse.inf in there) ?
+
** Maybe related to pack200 conditioning - Martin thinks that eclipse.inf was used in the past as a marker to know whether pack200 conditioning has happened ... now downstream aggregator conditions and adds eclipse.inf
+
** '''AI John investigate'''
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 13, 2013''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani
+
'''April 9, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
* Andrew: '''{{bug|397896}} final throughts on the EPP package'''
+
* Dani - '''Kepler SR2 and Java 8'''
** Move forward with [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=397896#c17 ]
+
** Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
** Testing - could find someone if it's just "use during the test pass"
+
** Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
** Q: Can the EPP build be done frequently so it's available 1 week before the milestone for testing ?
+
** Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
* Martin: '''{{bug|402509}} context menu filtering'''
+
** Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
** Would like to get some advice from Platform on the approach; some trajectory of a solution moving forward
+
 
** Not a must-have for Kepler, but would like to see where this is heading
+
* John - '''Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions'''
** '''AI McQ''' find Platform folk to discuss this
+
** Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
* John: '''Eclipse 4 API Status'''
+
** Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
** Publishing a "usable subset" of the former provisional API as final: model, core services; consume injection
+
** Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
** Allows building a real Eclipse 4 App now on API
+
** Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches
*** Mostly clean-up, documentation; removing some bad stuff
+
*** Writing an App on Kepler E4 API might actually be able to run on Juno
+
** Some of the advanced stuff remains provisional for now, eg define injection
+
* John: '''Plan Update''' - No permission to update in the PMI
+
* McQ: '''CBI''' / Bad Launcher
+
** Have an idea that doing some little extra work after the CBI build might be good enough for now
+
** HP-UX CBI Build doesn't start out of the box (will likely stay a known issue for M6)
+
* Martin: '''{{bug|380325}} Java7 EFS Plugin''': Build ?
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 6, 2013''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew
+
 
* Martin: '''{{bug|402509}} context menu filtering'''
+
'''April 2, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
** AI Martin ask engineers document what we're doing today
+
* Dani - new GTK3+ issues
* Martin: '''{{bug|397896}} EPP vs Classic''' - how to proceed
+
** crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX ({{bug|431330}})
** Martin's recent findings on Marketplace
+
** problems with main menu ({{bug|419830}})
*** There's p2, Marketplace, Packages in the Open but they are only parts of the solution
+
* Dani - '''Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work'''
*** There's commercial installers from EclipseSource (Yoxos), Genuitec, IBM
+
** Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
*** John: p2 simplified UI (eg Webtools Server Adaptors; Mylyn)  
+
* Dani - need to '''approve API changes for Java 8 in M7'''
** What's missing ? David too booked ?
+
** No API changes, only additions
* John: '''CBI Builds in Kepler''' - SDK in good shape but repo and Equinox downloadpage not quite right yet, some might take until M6
+
** Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
* John: '''Delete old Platform/UI Branches''' - any PMC Policy ? No, convert branches to tags
+
** ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
* John: '''API Freeze next week''' - some (modest) new Eclipse 4 API's
+
** There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
** McQ recommends going for a "complete, but minimal subset of what people will want to do", rather than too many convenience methods
+
* John - '''SWT over JavaFX'''
** John: Some API has been provisional for 3 years - can't make wholesale changes now for the fun of it
+
** EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
*** May phase in some changes by adding @noreference rather than deleting stuff
+
** Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
*** In some cases there's pressure to use interfaces rather than classes, in order to be able and leverage Java 8 constructs
+
** Relationship to Tom Schindl's [http://www.eclipse.org/efxclipse/index.html e(fx)clipse project] ?
* Orion - anybody going to JSConf ?
+
*** e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
 +
*** Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
 +
*** Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in {{bug|426243}}
 +
*** Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
 +
**** It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
 +
**** John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
 +
*** Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 27, 2013''' - John, Andrew, Dani
+
'''March 26, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
* Nothing noteworthy
+
* John - '''EclipseCon Update'''
 +
** Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
 +
** IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
 +
** Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
 +
** Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
 +
** See also Blog Posts from [http://cdtdoug.ca/ Doug Schaefer] and [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/author/irbull/ Ian Bull] as well as [https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2014/news/top-5-ian-bull top 5 from Ian]
 +
* John - '''ARM port of GTK''' - any tracking items ?
 +
** Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
 +
** IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
 +
** Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
 +
** Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
 +
*** Example: {{bug|430698}}, {{bug|429237}}, {{bug|415757}}; {{bug|419855}} talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
 +
*** Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
 +
*** Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
 +
**** Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
 +
**** Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
 +
* Alex - '''Java 8 vs Java 7''' currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
 +
** In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
 +
** ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is {{bug|390889}} and we'll try to fix it for M7.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 20, 2013''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''March 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
* John: '''Orion Release Review''', please give feedback
+
* McQ - '''Congrats on Java 8 Release''' to coincide with the Oracle release
 +
* Dani - '''Windows 8 Support''' - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
 +
** McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
 +
** Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
 +
** Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 13, 2013'''
+
'''March 12, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, McQ, John
* {{bug|156134}} re-exporting debug dependencies
+
* GTK - SWT team discussions
 +
* John - '''preparing for Java 8 release'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 6, 2013''' - John, Dani, Martin
+
'''March 5, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
* John: '''M5a and SR2 RC4'''
+
* Dani: '''How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit''' - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
* John: Pawel and Platform / Debug work (Pin & Clone)
+
* Dani: '''Windows 8 Support'''
** Only adopt when it's really ready and satisfies all criteria, otherwise not into Kepler
+
** Not listed in official plan
** Maybe pull out Debug plugins into a feature of their own ?
+
** No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
 +
** Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
 +
** Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
 +
** AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
 +
*** Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
 +
* Dani: '''State of GTK 3+'''
 +
** Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
 +
** Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
 +
** Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
 +
** Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
 +
** On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
 +
** Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
 +
* Alex: '''GTK 3 in Mars'''
 +
** Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
 +
** RHEL 5 would no longer work
 +
** Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 30, 2013''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''February 26, 2014''' - Alex, John, Martin, McQ
* John: '''SR2 RC3''' looking good - want to know about any remaining issues
+
* John: '''Orion Release''' this week
* Dani: '''Java 8 Update''' - Markus Keller will move from JDT UI to JDT Core, taking over JSR-308
+
 
* John: '''NODE Dependency in Orion (exempt pre-req)'''
+
* Alex: '''Eclipse on ARM64'''
** Not shipping NODE ourselves, pushing to NODE package manager instead (or clone from git)
+
** Launcher and swt at first
** Andrew: Is it a workswith ?
+
** Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
** Martin: Is there any overlap with the Java portion ?
+
** John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
*** The server code is completely distinct from Java, but the same client can interact with both
+
*** Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
 +
*** At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
 +
** Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
 +
 
 +
* Dani: Update on '''GTK 3+ issue''' - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
 +
** Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
 +
** McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
 +
*** If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
 +
*** Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
 +
*** Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 24, 2013''' -  
+
'''February 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
* Martin: '''4.3 and 3.8 dual-stream''' - [http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=webtools#themes_and_priorities Webtools project plan]
+
* Dani: '''Silenio to work on GTK issue?'''
** egit, mylyn, dtp have been doing both n + n-1 for a long time
+
* John: '''GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation'''
** Technically, running on both should be possible if Platform API is used (except for the changes in Theming)
+
* John: '''e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools'''
** The Eclipse Community needs to advance the latest (4.3)
+
** Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
** IBM product teams have been told not to forward at all if they can't forward to 4.x - shipping on 4.2
+
** Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
** John: Having '''wider ranges of tolerance''' is something we should be able to do (otherwise our plugin system is failing)
+
** Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
** John: Java8 will be the first killer feature in 4.x
+
** John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
* Dani: '''Java 8'''
+
** Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
** Will provide feature patches as soon as it makes sense - early draft, participating in expert group
+
*** If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
** Want to have the compiler and editor ready when Java 8 goes GA - initial refactoring etc in SR1 - full feature set in the next release
+
** Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE
* John: '''CBI update'''
+
** Consider switch after M5
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 17, 2013''' - McQ, John, Martin
+
'''February 5, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
* John: '''{{bug|397896}} EPP vs Classic'''
+
* Dani: '''Confcall Numbers:''' Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
** Could volunteer to own the EPP package from Platform POV
+
* Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
** Then Wayne would own the decision of RCP/RAP vs Classic - what's the difference, keep both or unify
+
* Alex: Testing on modern Linux
* John: '''Test Failures on I-Builds'''
+
** Move away tests that have been failing for 9 months
+
** Dani: Most tests are actually down to 0 failures
+
* John: '''CBI / Maven Builds'''
+
** Appears to be fragile at the moment - Maven .micro releases are breaking the build!
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 10, 2013''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
'''January 22, 2014''' - John, Dani, Alex, Martin
* McQ: '''CBI''' - Switching Platform build to CBI for SR2 is not doable
+
* John, Alex: '''New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora'''
** Want to make CBI work for Juno since it's the LTS stream
+
** Alex been looking at Browser
** CBI SDK builds are good at this point, it's only a couple of minor issues (shape of repos, download page, ...
+
** Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
** When to switch to CBI in the Kepler Stream ? - Proposal do do it immediately
+
** Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
* CBI patches waiting for Platform to pick up
+
*** Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
 +
*** Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
 +
* Dani: '''M5 Status'''
 +
** Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 3, 2013''' - McQ, Andrew, John, Dani
+
'''January 15, 2014''' - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin
* Andrew will recommend good conferences to promote Orion
+
* Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
 +
* Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''January 8, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ
 +
* Dani: '''API Freeze''' with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Latest revision as of 04:18, 18 December 2014

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every wednesday at 10.30am EST.

Meeting Minutes

December 17, 2014 - McQ, John, Dani

  • Platform UI leadership to be discussed in the next PMC call
  • no call on December 24 and December 31

December 10, 2014 - Alex, McQ, John, Dani, Martin

  • Dani: bug 427768 Mickael (Red Hat) - Nested Project support contribution to Common Navigator to better support Maven projects
  • Dani: Red Hat also will wants to contribute making the Import easier bug 421930. First in the e4 incubator.
    • Just import from a folder, and contribute project configurators via extension point (e.g. detect POM files, Makefiles, ...)
    • McQ: Many complexities ... different users may want very different things to happen
      • McQ: Just point to a Git repo -- the Git repo has a little metadata file at the root which allows launching the apps that the repo had been intended for ... maybe just make the project tree(s) a little more self-describing
      • Is there a growing list of repos which already have that? - John: In the Java world, pom.xml is getting that ...
      • Alex: .doap getting this (at least for Apache and GNOME projects - specifies at least the languages used)
  • Web IDEs : McQ and others gone through a lot of analysis of Web IDE's
    • Cloud9 has a much larger set of starting points ; in terms of the underlying core structure, Orion (and also Jay) are more interesting
    • Orion has an extremely lightweight plug-in model: pieces coming from all over the world may look like all running on the server - nice infrastructure for building Community around it
    • Orion + Flux could be a rival for anything out there
    • Orion continues to push on the Core Coding experience - Orion Editor is on par or better than most desktop editors
  • Vision: See Minutes on the platform-vision mailing list ... Delivery will depend on people actually participating

December 3, 2014 - Alex, Martin, Dani, John (McQ travelling)

  • John: Platform Vision - How to turn that into actionable items, Wayne wants to present to the Board
  • John: Performance tests running again since a couple weeks, now the graphs are also back again :)

November 26, 2014 - Alex, Dani

  • No relevant topics / decisions

November 19, 2014 - Alex, Martin, Dani (McQ and John had issues dialing in)

  • Dani: Jetty 9 - Upgrade has been done, but new versions coming out ... will probably update from Jetty 9.2.3 to Jetty 9.2.5. Probably 9.3
    • WTP interested in newer Jetty version ... need to agree on a common version across the Release Train.
    • Alex: New Jetty JSP compiler failing ... filed a bug, will want this fixed (Jetty working on it)
  • Dani: bug 179924 Request for ssh-agent - patch against Team from YMNK (JSch Committer)
    • egit would contribute the agent, but would make more sense putting it in Platform (+1 from Martin, no objection from Alex)
  • Equinox Declarative Services implementation - ProSyst stopped providing fixes, not responsive any more
    • New specificiation (R6) from OSGi adding lot of features, cannot risk staying behind
    • Suggestion to remove the ProSyst stuff and replace it with the Apache Felix implementation (used by IBM / WebSphere and others)
    • Martin: How mature / stable is the Felix code ? Can we influence it ?
      • Dani: Very mature. Have more influence on Felix than on the Prosyst stuff ... through the IBM committers and others.
      • Alex agrees. Using some parts of Felix already.
  • John (via Dani): Move e4 into Platform/UI - would like to start the review process next week.

November 5, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Eclipse Foundation greatbugs initiative - call into PMC
  • Dani: EclipseCon Europe Report - met lot of people, best attended EclipseCon Europe ever :)
    • IOT; IDE in the Web; are people moving away from Eclipse before the transition to Web can be completed ?
  • Alex: Discussion with Christian Campo on scaling up
    • Should better go into SWT ... but SWT has a reputation that it's hard getting a change in -- people prefer re-doing things their own than contributing :(
    • Alex thinks this problem doesn't exist any more ... but how to fight this misconception ?
    • John: Getting a change in may now be hard due to other reasons, eg lack of experienced committers
    • Alex: Consider voting in new committers more easily if somebody is interested ?
  • Alex: Difference between Eclipse and the Linux Foundation
    • Linux Foundation doesn't provide anything that anybody can use directly (just a source tarball) --> all users become "contributors" of some sort
    • This leads to different expectations and has a number advantages (eg issues are reported to and worked on by member companies only)

October 22, 2014 - Alex, Dani, McQ, John

  • Platform plan update nearly done, will be released soon
  • Orion release review is ongoing, release will be next week
  • Brief discussion of new bug reporting tool and related bug dashboard
  • PMC called canceled next week due to EclipseCon Europe

October 1, 2014 - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ

  • Dani - In touch with Oracle regarding Solaris x86
  • McQ - Platform UI tension between making Platform UI as stable as possible, versus new features
    • Community forming for new contributions - that's great! - But takes committer's time; committers reduced to "productize and fix" is problematic
    • how to get more contributions for bug fixes ?
      • Alex: What about saying "This release we only accept bug fixes" ? Or for some milestone, eg after M4 only accept bug fixes ?
      • Dani: Sounds great, but will the Community accept that ? - JDT BugBash did not work that well...
      • Dani to prepare a draft message
  • Dani was in Bangalore - talked to Arun - good collaboration with Alex
    • Hard to get new SWT developers (Sami moving away on RH side)
    • Ideas to keep SWT relevant ... eg generate Browser based things
      • GTK3 supports running in a browser now... (just one label for now, but an interesting approach)

September 24, 2014 - Alex, Dani, McQ, John, Martin

  • John: SWT Binaries Repository has got too big
    • Will prune old versions out of the git repository (which is only used internally) - "Release" drops will still be available from release builds.
    • DECISION: OK to prune.
  • SWT master still has sources for old Platforms like carbon and motif - cluttering up the source code
    • DECISION: OK to remove references - source would remain in git for old branches, but not be visible in master any more.
  • Dani: p2 and Equinox - no sign-off for M2, leaders stepping down ?
    • consider moving p2 back into Equinox, and probably Equinox back into the Eclipse project ?
    • John: Equinox committers not really knowledgeable about p2 ... still, with less than 3 active committers a threshold is reached (can't hold elections any more)
    • Still there's a couple of people contributing, so there are knowledgeable folk around
    • Dani: If there's committers committing code, they should also be responsible for sign-off
  • Dani: Java 7 and Jetty 9
    • Been using Jetty 8 for a while, now, there is Community Pressure upgrading to Jetty 9 but that requires Java 7
    • Java 6 no longer getting public updates since February 2013
    • John:Adoptions needed in the Help System when moving to Jetty 9 ?
      • Alex don't think so - been shipping Jetty 9 for over a year already; only required changing some dependencies.
      • ACTION ITEM: Alex offered to check this
  • Alex: Drop all the Java 6 Platforms from the list of Reference Platforms?
    • DECISION: Yes this needs to be done. Trying to support Java 6 won't buy any benefit at this point.

September 17, 2014 - no meeting


September 10, 2014 - John, Martin, Alex, Dani

  • John: Mars having some build hickups due to removing Mac 32-bit builds
  • John: Luna SR1 - almost done, respinning for 2 bugs in Equinox
  • John: Cloud TLP (for Orion and others) - still on track for announcing end October
  • Alex: Been busy with other stuff recently, back on the GTK version support discussion this week
    • Martin: Many people will know what distro they have (or need), but not what GTK they have on there
      • John: Also running GTK on AIX, Solaris, Linux Power and other which are not moving up that fast...
      • Martin: Examples: RHEL 5.8 was GTK 2.10.4-21 ; RHEL 4.5 was at GTK 2.4.13-22
      • Popular distros would be Ubuntu LTS, RHEL, OpenSUSE
    • Alex: Newer distros have up to 3 GTK versions installed, along with some means to switch between them, it's very confusing
    • Eclipse is the only project that dynamically loads DLL's and tries to support a broad range ... others typically compile against a specific version
      • Most projects require GTK 2.24
    • John: GTK versions are not really predictable ... between 3.04 and 3.10 there was a breaking change
    • Alex: In every release there are small issues that we work around; and there's certain releases that are breaking stuff
    • NEXT ACTION: Send E-Mail

September 3, 2014 - John, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: away next week and on/off the next two weeks due to travel
  • Dani: RC4 next week. PMC please watch the PMC mailing list
    • John: will be available and monitor the mailing list
  • Dani: Oracle interested in providing access to a Solaris 64-bit machine bug 442266
  • John: How/where to graduate the e4 tools
    • the community wants to graduate this out of incubation
    • initially proposed to create a separate project, but feels like adding too much overhead
    • John: proposed PDE as home, then Dani suggested to use Platform UI
    • Alex, Dani and John agree to suggest Platform UI as home for the e4 tools.
    • John to send a note to Lars
  • Alex: Limit supported number of GTK+ versions
    • SWT currently has to support over 20 different version. This doesn't scale.
    • Proposal: Bump min supported version with one minor release each release. Aka Luna has Gtk 2.10 as min, Mars would have 2.12 as min. Can consider even two minor releases (Mars requires 2.14) as this would keep the amount of supported versions the same as GTK releases one minor release every 6 months.
    • Dani, John: this is too limiting. We tended to support the most possible. Newest versions might have too many bugs.
    • All agree: we'd like to limit the amount of supported versions
    • Alex to cast a poll via Eclipse Foundation, which versions are used by users and companies

August 27, 2014 - cancelled


August 20, 2014 - John, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: new platform PowerPC 64-bit LE bug 441358
    • maintained by IBM
    • will be added to 4.4.1 as early access
    • Dani to send a note to cross-platform
  • Dani: individual made patches to support Solaris 64-bit bug 442266
    • we'd like to add it but don't have a machine to support it
    • important because our current 32-bit Solaris build will become obselete since there's no 32-bit JRE for Java 7 and beyond
    • Oracle should be interested since they provide both, Java and Solaris
    • Dani to ask Oracle

August 13, 2014 - McQ, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Any feedback for the Mars plan?
    • McQ:
      • It does not cover Orion, but that is OK and like in previous release plans. Orion will most likely be moved to another top-level project soon.
      • We want to remove Mac OS X Universal 32-bit (all agreed)
  • Dani: How to deal with requests to push our bundles to repo.eclipse.org bug 441530
    • Dani: OK for me but we won't do the work
    • Alex: Maven needs the dependencies in the pom.xml. We don't want copy them from the manifest into the pom.xml and then maintain this. The pom should be updated when publishing the file into the Maven repo. Ideally by an automated task.
    • Conclusion: all agree with this, i.e. we won't do the actual work and we won't "pollute" our pom files.

August 6, 2014 - McQ, Dani

  • Dani: Will provide initial Mars plan next week



No meetings in July



Jun 4, 2014 - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: RC4 Status looking good
    • 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
    • Rest of the team working on docs
    • Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
  • John: Went over the N&N ... number of things went in after M7 :)
    • Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way



Jun 11, 2014 - Martin, McQ, Alex, John

  • John: Eclipse Theming: When switching the OS Theme to dark, Eclipse should be aware
    • Dark Theme is currently a tech preview



Jun 4, 2014 - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: RC4 Status looking good
    • 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
    • Rest of the team working on docs
    • Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
  • John: Went over the N&N ... number of things went in after M7 :)
    • Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way



May 28, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: EOL'ing the Delta Pack - announce now, remove during Mars - it's been obsoleted by p2 functionality
    • Alex: Some of the test suite relied on the delta pack, it caused issues, OK with removing (PDE tests would need to be cleaned up)
  • Dani: Copyright Updates - tool is very slow since not ported from CVS properly, can run for hours
    • John: Worth doing periodically but probably won't matter legally since copyright lasts for 7 years
    • The change is not without risk (Dani: Could schedule after the release)
    • McQ: Should consider updating the tool as part of that work
    • Alex: Has a new intern, could use this as an opportunity to join
  • Dani: RC3 status - last planned build - looking good, except for Platform UI, where the list of bugs is still long
  • McQ: Discussions about a new Eclipse.org Web-based Toplevel Project



May 14, 2014 - Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Alex: SWT GTK3 and the Endgame Rules
  • Dani: Luna Plan Update
  • John: New Dashboard created by the EMO

May 7, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Martin bug 241957 - GTK clipboard hang
    • Alex: GTK guys recommended using the async API, but no time for more investigation
    • McQ: Switching a sync API to async implementation underneath can be extremely messy (need to be aware of all possible events and event sources...)
    • McQ: If there is an idea canceling the clipboard wait ... given that the issue occurs only rarely, even a hacky solution is better than nothing
  • Dani: will do a plan update, hopefully this week

April 30, 2014 - Dani, Martin, McQ

  • McQ: WB4 perspective customization - has it caused any issues ?
    • Martin: Dealing with detached views works differently (dragging a window fails - must drag the tab inside the window)
    • Dani: Saved perspectives / windows are lost on an existing workspace when moving from 3.x to 4.x
      • Martin/McQ: When crossing the major version boundary, it is OK to lose state - it's not nice but acceptable
    • Dani: The bigger problem is, that the whole "Perspective customization" dialog is still not working as expected
      • Martin: Agree with the concern, but the Perspective customization dialog wasn't ever great
      • McQ: If invest work here, rather make it good than bring back the previous status quo
      • Martin: Most customization done via plugin.xml / Java , don't expect end users to do a lot of customization themselves
  • Dani: M7 status
    • Defect triage under control - some items deferred to 4.5



April 23, 2014 - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin

  • Alex - GTK2 or GTK3 as default - GTK3 it is
    • GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to
      • xulrunner - latest version not supported by swt and latest distros don't even ship standalone xulrunner
      • webkitgtk - gtk2 version in maintenance mode, upstream consider dropping, really crashy See [1]
    • GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
    • McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
  • Dani - Freeze Plan created
  • John - Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret

April 16, 2014 - Dani, Alex

  • no topics today

April 9, 2014 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani - Kepler SR2 and Java 8
    • Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
    • Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
    • Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
    • Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
  • John - Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions
    • Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
    • Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
    • Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
    • Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches

April 2, 2014 - Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Dani - new GTK3+ issues
    • crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX (bug 431330)
    • problems with main menu (bug 419830)
  • Dani - Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work
    • Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
  • Dani - need to approve API changes for Java 8 in M7
    • No API changes, only additions
    • Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
    • ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
    • There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
  • John - SWT over JavaFX
    • EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
    • Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
    • Relationship to Tom Schindl's e(fx)clipse project ?
      • e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
      • Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
      • Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in bug 426243
      • Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
        • It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
        • John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
      • Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX



March 26, 2014 - John, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • John - EclipseCon Update
    • Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
    • IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
    • Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
    • Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
    • See also Blog Posts from Doug Schaefer and Ian Bull as well as top 5 from Ian
  • John - ARM port of GTK - any tracking items ?
    • Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
    • IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
    • Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
    • Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
      • Example: bug 430698, bug 429237, bug 415757; bug 419855 talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
      • Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
      • Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
        • Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
        • Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
  • Alex - Java 8 vs Java 7 currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
    • In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
    • ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is bug 390889 and we'll try to fix it for M7.

March 19, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • McQ - Congrats on Java 8 Release to coincide with the Oracle release
  • Dani - Windows 8 Support - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
    • McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
    • Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
    • Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation

March 12, 2014 - Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • GTK - SWT team discussions
  • John - preparing for Java 8 release

March 5, 2014 - John, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
  • Dani: Windows 8 Support
    • Not listed in official plan
    • No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
    • Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
    • Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
    • AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
      • Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
  • Dani: State of GTK 3+
    • Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
    • Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
    • Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
    • Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
    • On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
    • Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
  • Alex: GTK 3 in Mars
    • Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
    • RHEL 5 would no longer work
    • Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI

February 26, 2014 - Alex, John, Martin, McQ

  • John: Orion Release this week
  • Alex: Eclipse on ARM64
    • Launcher and swt at first
    • Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
    • John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
      • Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
      • At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
    • Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
  • Dani: Update on GTK 3+ issue - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
    • Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
    • McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
      • If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
      • Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
      • Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it



February 19, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin, John

  • Dani: Silenio to work on GTK issue?
  • John: GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation
  • John: e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools
    • Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
    • Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
    • Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
    • John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
    • Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
      • If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
    • Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE

February 5, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Confcall Numbers: Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
  • Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
  • Alex: Testing on modern Linux

January 22, 2014 - John, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • John, Alex: New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora
    • Alex been looking at Browser
    • Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
    • Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
      • Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
      • Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
  • Dani: M5 Status
    • Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier

January 15, 2014 - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin

  • Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
  • Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion

January 8, 2014 - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ

  • Dani: API Freeze with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception

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