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= Documents =
 
= Documents =
 
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
  
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= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
'''September 19, 2012''' - McQ, Martin, John, Andrew, Dani
 
* Martin: Juno patch feature for {{bug|381407}} and {{bug|383890}} ?
 
** This got fixed by a re-spin of RC4
 
* McQ: '''4.x Performance''', and Platform committers
 
** Team is working on issues... like [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/2012/09/17/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish/ Jochen Krause's blog]
 
** LTS going to improve things
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''May 23, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ
'''September 12, 2012''' - Andrew, Dani, John, Martin
+
* Dani: '''Apache Batik XXE Vulnerability'''
* John: '''CBI Build''' - good progress with Thanh from EMO visiting Platform Team's offices this week
+
** Alex: Moving to Batik 1.9 would be good, but there is so much UI breakage that it's not viable for Oxygen
** Focus on Juno Stream because LTS builds need to get done
+
* Martin: '''Bugs discovered during RC test cycle'''
** Can produce an SDK but cannot produce many of the other artifacts (That's good enough for LTS which only needs a p2 repo)
+
** Surprised that some low-priority issues do get attention ({{bug|517108}}) while others get no response at all ({{bug|517013}}
** Can claim readiness only when binary bits are the same (p2 comparator tool from Olivier - which does byte code level compare of class files, and binary comparison of other files)
+
** Dani: Only interested in severe issues and regressions - send message to platform-releng-dev with severe regressions found
* John: '''4.x Performance''' - Several people on the team actively looking at issues, some problems identified, some not yet reproduced
+
** Dani: Please +1 the Gerrit for {{bug|517108}}
** Some work started on re-enabling Performance tests
+
** start running on virtual machines to see whether dedicated machines are needed or not
+
** How to improve the process integrating people / resources / donations from companies (EMO pushes towards more contributions)
+
*** Need more committers for longer term, not only short-term patch contributors
+
* Andrew: '''FOSDEM''' Europe (Brussels) coming up - Ian Skerret going to reserve a room, asking for people to join, good conference, lots of cross-pollination
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 5, 2012''' - Andrew, Dani, Martin
+
'''May 16, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars
* Martin: '''Windows 8''' testing ? - Filed {{bug|388560}} to get "Windows 8" added to bugzilla
+
* Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
** Dani: Initial testing by SWT team didn't reveal anything; Dani in favor of getting W8 deployed on Hudson once it is out officially
+
** Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
** Should consider adding to the Kepler plan; consider backports to Juno SR for issues found
+
* {{bug|509922}} Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
* Martin: '''3.8 vs 4.2''' - posting on [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev/msg08123.html cross-project list]
+
** Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
** Need to look at stack traces in detail eg {{bug|385272}}. Watch how that E-Mail thread evolves.
+
** Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
* Dani: '''Go/No-Go''' decision process for RC's - to be discussed in the Arch call
+
* '''Test failures:''' Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
 +
** Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
 +
** CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
 +
** UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
 +
* {{bug|516114}} Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
 +
** Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
 +
** The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
 +
** That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
 +
** Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
 +
*** The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
 +
** '''AGREEMENT:''' In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
 +
*** Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
 +
*** McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
 +
* Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
 +
* Alex: '''Project Structure'''
 +
** Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
 +
** Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
 +
** In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
 +
** Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
 +
** McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
 +
** Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move forward on this, with a ''Platform Leadership'' group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 29, 2012:''' - John, Dani, Martin
+
'''May 9, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ
* John: Bugzilla's new auto-duplicate-find ... Dani likes it but moved suggestions somewhere else with Greasemonkey to avoid interfering with typing
+
* Dani: '''JSR376 Jigsaw''': 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
* Tom Watson: Big changes coming in Equinox for Java modularity - thought about Kepler but will wait for another year in a branch
+
** From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
** Java 8 also won't be in Kepler ... so will likely be kind of a Maintenance Release
+
** JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
* Dani: [[Version Numbering]] document is a bit unclear about upreving from a n.n.2
+
** For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
** RESOLUTION: desire is clarifying the next is n.n.100
+
** JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
* Dani: '''Delete files from CVS projects''' and add a README ?
+
* Dani: '''M7/RC0''' - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
** Yes if it can be done in an automated way .. to avoid confusion about outdated sources
+
** When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
*** eg README points to a Wiki page
+
**# Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
*** John: Keep the .project in place such that jumping from version to version doesn't break a workspace
+
**# Section forms layout
*** Martin: Acceptance criterion that importing from scmurl in MANIFEST.MF still works (when choosing the tag ... choosing HEAD should bring up the README)
+
* Dani: '''httpcore 4.4.1 -&gt; 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility'''
* John: '''Plan Update upcoming'''
+
** Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
 +
** People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
 +
** Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
 +
** Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
 +
** Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
 +
* Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
 +
* Dani: '''Release Review''', does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
 +
** All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
 +
** McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
 +
** Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
 +
** Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 15, 2012:''' - John, Dani, Andrew
+
'''May 2, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
* Do we support removal of bugzilla CLOSED state? Resolved: yes we do
+
* Lars: '''Regex Evaluator Plugin'''
* Discussion of long term release plans beyond Kepler
+
** Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
 +
** Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
 +
** McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
 +
* Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
 +
* Dani: '''JSR Jigsaw Ballot'''
 +
** Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 8, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''Apr 25, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
* Dani: News from Jeff
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3a'''
* McQ vacation from August 13 to August 31
+
** Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
 +
*** '''AI Alex''' tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
 +
*** Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 25, 2012:'''
+
'''Apr 18, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
* '''CBI Build'''
+
* Dani: '''RH and Java9 Jigsaw'''
** For SR1, the build can produce what the Release Train needs ... but not all the extra validation
+
** Very good write-up linked from the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03385.html AC Mailinglist] - see also [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03389.html follow-up]
** Need to run both builds for now ... until the CBI team's bytecode verifier produces the same output
+
** Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
** CBI team continues to look at the list of diffs and improve their builder
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3 Respin'''
** Platform team would be OK dropping the legacy build once the bytecode validator has no diffs
+
** Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
** Platform team can't commit more resources to CBI now (Paul Webster already heavily involved)
+
* Lars: '''[https://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/glance#group-details Glance] Migration''' to e4 and/or Platform
* '''Losing Commits on the Orion git repo'''
+
** e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
** Dozen commits or so
+
* Lars
** Might be a defect in the Orion git tools, but the server side should prevent that !!!
+
** JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache
** DenyNonFastForward should have protected ... need an extra layer of protection ?
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 27, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
'''Apr 11, 2017''' - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani
* Eclipse Demo Camps - none in Ottawa
+
* Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
* Going to skip the arch calls for all of July - leave the PMC slot in place.
+
** There will be a special drop for Java 9 in July, but it has not yet been decided whether it will be a release where users automatically get the update, or a special p2 repository or Marketplace entry where the update can be done on demand.
* Should keep an eye on the Community feedback for Eclipse 4
+
** Issues with Neon.3. A respin might be necessary. For details see https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/msg02741.html.
 +
* Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 13, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
'''Apr 04, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
 
+
* Martin: {{bug|514257}} and [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev/msg14316.html cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue]
* Discussed the ECF rebuild request ({{bug|382206}}). Arguments in favor: it is a safe change, it reverts the situation to where it was in RC3 and earlier. Arguments against summarized in https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=382206#c20.
+
** Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
* We will need to tag the release but we can wait until we are officially done (week of June 25th).
+
** Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
 +
** Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
 +
*** Commons Logging is not a Singleton
 +
** Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
 +
* Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
 +
* Dani: '''PPC''' - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 6, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John, Andrew
+
'''Mar 28, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
 
+
* Replacement for Sergey
* Discussion of how to handle test failures for final build. Most of the remaining failures are infrastructure issues related to our move to Hudson for tests. We will document the failures through bugs, and include a note on the build results page for the final build explaining the failures
+
** let's wait and see how things go
* Discussion of whether we need a 3.9 release. Unanimous conclusion was that we do not see a need for it. Reducing to one stream will greatly reduce our development overhead and encourage consolidation around the single stream.
+
** next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
* Discussion of how to handle the disappearance of org.eclipse.equinox.concurrent from our RC3 builds. This was never deliberately included in the platform, but was present due to a greedy optional dependency from ECF. By very close 3/2 decision PMC decided to leave it alone and document the disappearance in porting guide, readme file, release review material, and cross-project list.
+
* Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
 +
** all agree
 +
** McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
 +
* Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
 +
* Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 
+
'''Mar 21, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
'''May 23, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
+
* Dani: '''Dirk Fauth''' [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02891.html Requests on eclipse-pmc]
* McQ: '''CBI / Tycho builder''': Paul Webster driving Platform efforts (AI Martin notify about {{bug|359719}})
+
** Alex agrees with Dani
* Martin: {{bug|380984}} ant / Orbit respin? - Unclear for now
+
** Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
* McQ: Finally figured out some long-standing bug eg "Variables view sometimes empty"
+
** Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
** Dani: It's 2 issues: First-time switch to Perspective deferred to 4.2.1, but {{bug|379818}} is finally fixed
+
* Dani: '''Szymon Ptasiewicz'''
** The actual underlying defect had been in there for years
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 16, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
'''Mar 14, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
* Dani: '''Version Number''' in branding features gets auto-generated and 3.8 version is now higher than 4.2 (since 3.8 build runs after 3.8)
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 readiness''' - see [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev cross-project-issues-dev]
** John thinks it's not a big deal
+
** Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
* John: '''CBI Patches''' - CBI has lots of patches downstream in their POM's ... RC2 is the last chance getting that in
+
*** Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
** Auto-generating the POM.XML would be nice but that's not how things work today
+
** Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the [[Java 9 Readiness]] wiki can show violations
 +
*** Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
 +
*** Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
 +
** Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
 +
** All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
 +
*** This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
 +
** Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
 +
* Dani: '''JUnit 5''' considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
 +
** Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
 +
* Dani: '''2 Platform Issues in M6'''
 +
** platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
 +
** major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
 +
*** In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
 +
*** In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
 +
* Alex: '''Generic Editor and Testing'''
 +
** Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
 +
** Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
 +
** Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
 +
** In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 9, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Dani
+
'''Mar 7, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars
* John: Classic update can still be enabled via capabilities - should we remove it?
+
* Dani: '''4.6.3 Updates''' - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
** Dani: in general "yes", but too late now
+
* Dani: '''4.7M7 Update''' - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
** McQ: too late, but make sure we do it for Kepler
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 / Planning Council Update''' - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
 +
** See the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/ eclipse.org-planning-council archives]
 +
* Lars: '''Platform.Resources Leadership''' after Sergey Leaving
 +
** Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
 +
** Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
 +
** Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
 +
** Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
 +
** Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 2, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew, John
+
'''Feb 28, 2017''' - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ
* John: '''Forking of SWT''' 3.8 and 4.2 are now separate Streams with CTabFolder implementation being the only difference
+
* Alex: '''Short update on Neon.3'''
* Dani: '''Icons''' (not discussed)
+
** 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
 +
** PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
 +
* Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
 +
* Martin: '''RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing'''
 +
** Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
 +
** Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
 +
** Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
 +
** '''AI Martin''' will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like {{bug|505826}} resolved ideally
 +
* McQ will be out next 2 weeks
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 18, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew, John
+
'''Feb 21, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey
* Martin: [[E4/Scripting]] initiative
+
* Lars: {{Bug|512273}} Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and {{Bug|512319}} allow rebase
** McQ thinks the E4 Application Model should be exposed as a DOM to scripting .. anything other than utilizing the e4 DOM for hiding a view feels wrong
+
** '''Agreement''' to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
*** Martin: Approach is very pragmatic - don't see anybody investing into new Frameworks at this point but converging on what already exists
+
** Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
*** If this goes towards macro recording, the recorder should utilize the e4 app model
+
** '''AI Lars''' follow up on the bug
** Signing up on the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-scripting-dev eclipse-scripting-dev] mailing list will keep people in the loop (expect low volume)
+
* Martin: '''UI Testing'''
* Dani: '''API Approval Process''' Approval on Bug plus sent to eclipse-pmc list (like last year)
+
** [http://eclipse.org/rcptt RCPTT] is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
* John: '''PDE Committers''' - perception of not being open
+
** Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
** McQ would like to see a plan item for next year "actively promote more committers from outside"
+
** When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
* Martin: [[Asterisk]] - will need a dialin for Dani in Switzerland; '''AI Dani''' forward his dialin to Martin for the time being
+
** Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
 +
** Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
 +
*** Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
 +
** '''AI Martin''' follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
 +
** '''AI Alex''' share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
 +
** '''AI Lars''' play with the Reddeer API
 +
* Dani: '''Update on PPC''' drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs {{bug|512224}}
 +
** Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm '''AI Alex and Dani''' ask Denis
 +
* Dani: '''Neon.3 RC3''' please keep an eye on builds
 +
* Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 11, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew, John
+
'''Feb 15, 2017'''
* Martin: '''LTS vs Quality/Fixes in Current Stream''' - Like John's reply making the link between the two
+
* McQ/John: '''Builds''' - Moving forward
+
* McQ: '''CBI Builds''' - Platform not going to take any ownership but will be a consumer like others - still shooting for Juno SR1
+
* Andrew: '''4.2 Builds in Fedora 17''' - Testing now
+
* McQ: '''IBM Ottawa Team moving to new building''' - expect delays during next couple days
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 4, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''Feb 8, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
* Dani: '''VM Requirements''' - Help no longer works on Java 5, this surprised some people... but Project Plan talks about a Java 6 req now
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|509412}}''' - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
** Martin suggestion: on the "Required JVM" table in the Project Plan, add a 2nd column with closure of BREE including all pre-reqs (continue having 1st column the BREE of the bundle itself auto-generated)
+
** Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
* Dani: '''Jeff still mentioned as PMC member'''
+
** Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
** '''AI Dani''' send E-Mail
+
** Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
* Martin: '''Concern about Platform Quality''' - eg SWT Redraws on 3.7.x - Old-time committers moving away
+
** Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
** McQ: Platform team's focus will continue being maintenance, and new Platform support ... team's capacity is going down, but SWT is not affected mosted
+
* Dani: '''Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform'''
** Martin: Code contributions are easy, hi-quality triage and review are harder
+
** Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
** Martin: Re-think the idea of having committers paid by the Foundation and Member Companies paying their share
+
** Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
*** Example: Why would Pascal review p2 in his sparetime ... but if he gets paid per bug his experience can be extremely valuable
+
* Dani: '''Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server'''
*** Be more creative on resourcing side
+
** Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
** McQ: In favor of putting more structure in place similar to LTS ("hire people for fixes") ... just continue with LTS ?
+
* Dani: '''Scenarios for UI Testing'''
*** IBM will have a need for fixes for at least another 8 years .. but that's a very self-serving focus
+
** Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
** [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''AI Martin''' send E-Mail to Mike to keep the ball rolling
+
* Dani: '''Sign Up for Security Rep'''
* Dani: {{bug|375292}} '''Reference to Marketplace in the SDK'''
+
** See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/tools-pmc/msg03927.html Wayne's message to PMCs] requesting PMC attendance
** Martin: "Classic" is a Building Block but "Packages" are for end users
+
** John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
** McQ: The purity of the SDK in itself isn't relevant
+
** Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
*** Martin: Why not just create a new package "Classic" which is at +3 and pulls in egit + marketplace ... the process for building is all in place, may just need a package reviewer
+
** '''RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up''' since already following security issues
*** [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''AI Martin''' mail Markus
+
* Dani+Alex: '''libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC'''
 +
** Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
 +
** Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
 +
** Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
 +
** Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
 +
** Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
 +
** If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
 +
** '''AI Dani+McQ''' find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
 +
* Alex: '''Update on Reddeer Testing Framework'''
 +
** A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
 +
** Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
 +
** Martin has been looking at [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT] which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
 +
** (call had to be closed at this point)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 21, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Andrew, Martin
+
<strike>Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled</strike>
* McQ '''Oracle Java on Mac'''
+
* Dani '''denyNonFastForward'''
+
* McQ '''JDT Team might see some losses'''
+
* Andrew '''Running OpenJDK tests now on ARM''' :)
+
 
+
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 14, 2012:''' - McQ, Andrew, Dani, John
 
* Losing Eclipse project release engineer next week
 
* David Williams is stepping in to help with our builds until Juno
 
* Most immediate issue is that our build needs elevated privileges to tag, sign, and promote builds
 
** kmoir was the only committer with sufficient privileges
 
** We either need to give another committer sufficient rights, or give build user access it needs
 
** Could use hooks to ensure build user isn't doing anything other than tagging
 
** All agreed the build user approach was the best option. John to open bug against foundation to carry it out
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''Jan 24, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
'''March 7, 2012:''' - McQ, Andrew, Martin, John
+
* Dani: '''New Jetty Version''' - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
* John: '''API Deletions''' {{bug|370248}} - PMC agrees.
+
* Dani: '''javax.xml''' - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
* McQ: '''Common Build Infrastructure at the Foundation'''
+
** Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
** Shipping Platform Juno bits built by PDE ... but Foundation wants EPP packages built by Tycho; Platform can't support this
+
* Alex: '''[http://jboss-reddeer.github.io/reddeer/ Reddeer Testing Framework]'''
*** Reason might be that 4.2 is planned to be the start of LTS and VLTS .. ok for now if LTS bits are different since not publicly available
+
** JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
*** Plus, LTS really starts after Juno SR2 ... Platform might be in a better position for Tycho by then
+
** Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
*** In Linux, Fedora also builds by themselves ... but assumption is that people come to Fedora support first
+
*** Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
** Martin, Andrew really concerned about fragmentation and duplication of effort ... eg what if the qualifiers don't match
+
*** API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
** Should be treated as proof of concept but not publicly available until Juno SR2, in order to avoid fragmentation !
+
** Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
 +
*** Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
 +
*** No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
 +
** Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT], it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
 +
** Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
 +
*** Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
 +
** Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
 +
** Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --&gt; Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
 +
*** Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
 +
*** '''AI Alex''' to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' to try installing Jubula until next week
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.
  
<hr/>
+
<hr>
'''February 29, 2012:''' - Dani, McQ, John, Martin, Andrew
+
'''Jan 17, 2017''' - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ
* John: Orion team received a box full of '''Black Ducks''' to honour their Black Duck Rookie of the Year award
+
* Sergey: '''Merging platform.resources with platform.ui'''
* Dani: '''Gerrit Move'''
+
** Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
** John: Important information needs to stay in Bugzilla ... don't pull from outside git exclusively
+
*** Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
* Andrew: '''Platform Defect Contest'''
+
** Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
** McQ concern: Lots of duplicate bugs would take focus away from the team
+
** Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
** Martin: Could encourage triage as part of the contest, and only count good/new bugs
+
** Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
** John: Some low-hanging fruit bugs in Platform UI but not necessarily in 4.x ("helpwanted")
+
*** McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
** John: Re-introduce the "greatbug" keyword ?
+
** Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
*** A greatbug is relevant, new, good description that helps understanding/finding the issue; ideally with a patch.
+
** Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even {{bug|509412}} was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
*** Resolution: '''AI John''' send note to Mike
+
** Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
* John: '''PDE API Moved'''
+
** McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
** Some internal, provisional API was migrated to full API in this release
+
* Lars: '''Removing javax.xml'''
** Someone from SAP (Dimitar Giormov) Asked adding back the provisional API such that they could support 2 versions of Eclipse with one codebase
+
** Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
** McQ: Would have helped them 4 years ago .. but at the moment don't have enough people
+
** Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
*** McQ: Question how pervasive their use of the old API is ... how much Reflection would they need to put int
+
** Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
*** One resolution could be OK but only if they provide all the patches
+
** McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
** This kind of duplication is error prone and adds a maintenance burden on the project
+
** Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
 +
**'''AI Lars''' send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
 +
* Dani: '''Project Updates'''
 +
** Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
 +
* McQ: '''UI Testing and Jubula'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 22, 2012:''' - Dani, McQ, John, Andrew
+
'''Jan 10, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck
* Repeat of PDE build discussion from last week. We decided to nominate John Arthorne as a committer so we at least have someone to accept community patches. We will revisit after Juno and perhaps do a larger restructuring
+
* Dani: '''Platform Bits on Maven Central''' - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
* Communication with eGit: We have written some patches for eGit that have been growing stale. Dani will review the patches, and then send an email to eGit lead asking if there is a particular reason for not accepting them. If there is no problem with the patches we will track down an eGit committer to release them.
+
* Dani: '''Board Committer Rep Elections''' opening
* Andrew asked about process for approving CQs:
+
* Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
** Any PMC member can feel free to approve CQs
+
* Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
** New versions of existing third party libraries are a no-brainer, typically just +1 right away
+
* Lars: '''Equinox move to Platform''' - no updates - '''AI Dani''' talk to Tom again
** For new third party libraries we may need a PMC discussion about why the library is needed, what feature it will live in, etc
+
* McQ / AlexS: '''Jubula'''
** For code contributions just make sure the legal process has been followed and then +1. We generally trust the judgement of the committer who will process the contribution.
+
** In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
 
+
** Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
<hr/>
+
** Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
'''February 15, 2012:''' - Dani, McQ, John
+
** AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
* Some discussion of what to do with PDE Build, which lacks committers. PDE as a whole has barely enough committers to be a functioning project, so maybe we should be looking at a larger restructuring after
+
*** For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
Juno rather than one piece at a time. We lacked quorum to make a decision so we will defer discussion to another week.
+
*** Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
 
+
*** UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
 
+
*** Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
<hr/>
+
*** Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
'''February 8, 2012:''' - Dani, Martin, Andrew, McQ
+
*** Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure ('''AI AlexS to check''')
* Andrew: Eclipse stand at '''FOSDEM in Brussles'''
+
*** Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
** Lots of people just dropped by to say hi and thanks
+
**** Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
** Mike Milinkovich was showing off Orion; Gunnar and Andrew did others (Web, EclipseRT, C/C++)
+
*** '''AI AlexS''' send slides
* McQ: '''4.2 Quality''' ... current list of defects looks manageable to tick all off .. any messaging we want to do ?
+
*** '''AI Dani + Lars''' propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
 
+
*** '''AI AlexS''' check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started
<hr/>
+
'''February 1, 2012:''' - Dani, Martin, John
+
* Dani: '''No UA Committers any more''' - move UA under Platform UI such that at least somebody can apply patches
+
** AI John check with Wayne ... UA is a subcomponent now, may not even need a move review.
+
* Dani: {{bug|343150}} git '''DenyNonFastForward'''
+
** Orion could eventually add tooling to support easy workflows in spite of deny on the repo ... but not in this release
+
** Ping on the bug again and proceed
+
* John: Decide when to switch 4.2 builds from re-using 3.x binary bundles vs full 4.x builds
+
** Today, the 4.x testsuite just tests 4.x specific stuff; things like JDT tests just run against 3.8 today
+
** Today, cannot generate Javadocs in 4.x today sine it needs the full source
+
** Today, nightlies are running 3.x only (could change to running 4.x nightlies only)
+
** Today, 3.x builds run at IBM and 4.x builds run at Eclipse.org
+
** Only few test failures left in the 4.x builds --&gt; ready to switch
+
** AI: '''Kim''' to send 4.x test results to the mailing list, consider switching right after M5
+
** '''Performance Tests:''' Not yet run on 4.x yet - should be able to run on Denis' vserver
+
*** IBM is going to lose the physical machines for performance tests in 2 weeks ! (Going to migrate to vserver too!)
+
*** Need a new baseline
+
** Andrew: at '''FOSSLC''' in Brussels this week, going to represent Eclipse with Mike Milinkovich, Gunnar Wagenknecht and others
+
* '''Gerrit''': Platform won't jump in as an early adopter this time, wait for other projects first
+
** Not all Platform Unittests can run on Hudson today (need at least some fingerprint tests to get value from Gerrit)
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''January 25, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew, Dani
+
* McQ: '''Note about 4.2 on Release Train'''
+
* Andrew: '''Eclipse 4.2 for Fedora''' - Feature note written for Eclipse Juno led to some discussion at Eng.Steering Committee, but finally approved
+
* Dani: Team down by 1 but no impact (Dani is going to take over responsibilities)
+
* John: '''Build Failures in UA, Update, PDE, p2 yesterday''' after the move to Java 7... nobody watching these, need to find caretakers
+
** UA tests often fail due to a link validity checker, these can be caused by anyone
+
** Certificate Validity issue (Jar signing)
+
 
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''January 18, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew, Dani
+
* McQ: '''4.2 quality''' and next steps
+
** More resources found to enable 4.2 as the LTS base - encouraging, although some items still missing
+
** Fedora 17 think about shipping 4.2m6 (work ongoing) - that would be a large stack on top of 4.2
+
** John: '''Oracle Java 7 as Reference Platform''' now that the most severe issues are fixed (Java 6 EOL is June 2012 !) - that is Oracle, not OpenJDK
+
*** Not remove Java 6 for now
+
*** Fedora also does all tests on 7
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''January 11, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
* McQ: '''State of Presentation API's'''
+
** Different API's in 4.2 and 3.x -- will need to deprecate API in 3.x
+
** Christian suggested deleting API that's not implemented in 4.x to get compile errors ... John thinks that binary compatibility is more important
+
*** Plugins will be "mostly OK", presentation API is cosmetic anyways
+
** McQ: get in touch with clients who use presentation API, telling them what's best to do ... often newer 4.x infrastructure is much better than trying to keep 3.x around forever
+
* Andrew: '''Cairo and GTK3'''
+
* John: '''4.2 compiling now'''
+
* Martin: '''Updated JSch-0.1.44 version''' - how to announce properly
+
** AI Martin Announce on eclipse-dev and cross-project
+
** Should also put into migrtion notes and README
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''January 4, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
* McQ: Pascal's note about p2 leadership .. not sure who could step in and make a commitment (may see the same fate as UA)
+
** Tom Watson looking for candidates, but looks like none in McQ's team
+
<hr/>
+
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Latest revision as of 11:15, 23 May 2017

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

May 23, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: Apache Batik XXE Vulnerability
    • Alex: Moving to Batik 1.9 would be good, but there is so much UI breakage that it's not viable for Oxygen
  • Martin: Bugs discovered during RC test cycle
    • Surprised that some low-priority issues do get attention (bug 517108) while others get no response at all (bug 517013
    • Dani: Only interested in severe issues and regressions - send message to platform-releng-dev with severe regressions found
    • Dani: Please +1 the Gerrit for bug 517108

May 16, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
    • Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
  • bug 509922 Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
    • Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
    • Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
  • Test failures: Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
    • Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
    • CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
    • UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
  • bug 516114 Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
    • Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
    • The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
    • That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
    • Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
      • The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
    • AGREEMENT: In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
      • Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
      • McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
  • Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
  • Alex: Project Structure
    • Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
    • Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
    • In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
    • Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
    • McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
    • Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
    • AGREEMENT to move forward on this, with a Platform Leadership group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.

May 9, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: JSR376 Jigsaw: 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
    • From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
    • JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
    • For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
    • JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
  • Dani: M7/RC0 - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
    • When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
      1. Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
      2. Section forms layout
  • Dani: httpcore 4.4.1 -> 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility
    • Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
    • People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
    • Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
    • Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
    • Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
    • AGREEMENT to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
  • Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
  • Dani: Release Review, does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
    • All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
    • McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
    • Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
    • Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
    • AGREEMENT to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.

May 2, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Lars: Regex Evaluator Plugin
    • Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
    • Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
    • McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
    • AGREEMENT to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
  • Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
  • Dani: JSR Jigsaw Ballot
    • Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard

Apr 25, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Neon.3a
    • Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
      • AI Alex tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
      • Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem

Apr 18, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Dani: RH and Java9 Jigsaw
    • Very good write-up linked from the AC Mailinglist - see also follow-up
    • Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
  • Dani: Neon.3 Respin
    • Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
  • Lars: Glance Migration to e4 and/or Platform
    • e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
  • Lars
    • JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache

Apr 11, 2017 - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
  • Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.

Apr 04, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Martin: bug 514257 and cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue
    • Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
    • Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
    • Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
      • Commons Logging is not a Singleton
    • Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
  • Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
  • Dani: PPC - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week

Mar 28, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Replacement for Sergey
    • let's wait and see how things go
    • next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
  • Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
    • all agree
    • McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
  • Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
  • Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)

Mar 21, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Dirk Fauth Requests on eclipse-pmc
    • Alex agrees with Dani
    • Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
    • Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
  • Dani: Szymon Ptasiewicz

Mar 14, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Java 9 readiness - see cross-project-issues-dev
    • Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
      • Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
    • Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the Java 9 Readiness wiki can show violations
      • Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
      • Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
    • Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
    • All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
      • This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
    • Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
  • Dani: JUnit 5 considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
    • Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
  • Dani: 2 Platform Issues in M6
    • platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
    • major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
      • In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
      • In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
  • Alex: Generic Editor and Testing
    • Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
    • Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
    • Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
    • In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"

Mar 7, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars

  • Dani: 4.6.3 Updates - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
  • Dani: 4.7M7 Update - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
  • Dani: Java 9 / Planning Council Update - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
  • Lars: Platform.Resources Leadership after Sergey Leaving
    • Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
    • Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
    • Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
    • Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
    • Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept

Feb 28, 2017 - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Alex: Short update on Neon.3
    • 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
    • PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
  • Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
  • Martin: RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing
    • Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
    • Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
    • Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
    • AI Martin will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like bug 505826 resolved ideally
  • McQ will be out next 2 weeks

Feb 21, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey

  • Lars: bug 512273 Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and bug 512319 allow rebase
    • Agreement to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
    • Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
    • AI Lars follow up on the bug
  • Martin: UI Testing
    • RCPTT is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
    • Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
    • When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
    • Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
    • Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
      • Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
    • AI Martin follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
    • AI Alex share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
    • AI Lars play with the Reddeer API
  • Dani: Update on PPC drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs bug 512224
    • Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm AI Alex and Dani ask Denis
  • Dani: Neon.3 RC3 please keep an eye on builds
  • Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week

Feb 15, 2017


Feb 8, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: bug 509412 - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
    • Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
    • Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
    • Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
    • Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
  • Dani: Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform
    • Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
    • Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
  • Dani: Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server
    • Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
  • Dani: Scenarios for UI Testing
    • Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
  • Dani: Sign Up for Security Rep
    • See Wayne's message to PMCs requesting PMC attendance
    • John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
    • Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
    • RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up since already following security issues
  • Dani+Alex: libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC
    • Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
    • Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
    • Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
    • Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
    • Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
    • If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
    • AI Dani+McQ find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
  • Alex: Update on Reddeer Testing Framework
    • A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
    • Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
    • Martin has been looking at RCPTT which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
    • (call had to be closed at this point)

Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled


Jan 24, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: New Jetty Version - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
  • Dani: javax.xml - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
    • Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
  • Alex: Reddeer Testing Framework
    • JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
    • Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
      • Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
      • API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
    • Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
      • Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
      • No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
    • Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about RCPTT, it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
    • Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
      • Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
    • Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
    • Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --> Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
      • Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
      • AI Alex to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
      • AI Martin to try installing Jubula until next week
      • AI Martin ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.

Jan 17, 2017 - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ

  • Sergey: Merging platform.resources with platform.ui
    • Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
      • Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
    • Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
    • Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
    • Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
      • McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
    • Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
    • Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even bug 509412 was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
    • Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
    • McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
  • Lars: Removing javax.xml
    • Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
    • Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
    • Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
    • McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
    • Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
    • AI Lars send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
  • Dani: Project Updates
    • Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
  • McQ: UI Testing and Jubula

Jan 10, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck

  • Dani: Platform Bits on Maven Central - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
  • Dani: Board Committer Rep Elections opening
  • Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
  • Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
  • Lars: Equinox move to Platform - no updates - AI Dani talk to Tom again
  • McQ / AlexS: Jubula
    • In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
    • Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
    • Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
    • AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
      • For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
      • Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
      • UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
      • Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
      • Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
      • Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure (AI AlexS to check)
      • Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
        • Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
      • AI AlexS send slides
      • AI Dani + Lars propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
      • AI AlexS check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started

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