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= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
'''September 19, 2012''' - McQ, Martin, John, Andrew, Dani
 
* Martin: Juno patch feature for {{bug|381407}} and {{bug|383890}} ?
 
** This got fixed by a re-spin of RC4
 
* McQ: '''4.x Performance''', and Platform committers
 
** Team is working on issues... like [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/2012/09/17/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish/ Jochen Krause's blog]
 
** LTS going to improve things
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''Jun 11, 2014''' - Martin, McQ, Alex, John
'''September 12, 2012''' - Andrew, Dani, John, Martin
+
* John: Eclipse Theming: When switching the OS Theme to dark, Eclipse should be aware
* John: '''CBI Build''' - good progress with Thanh from EMO visiting Platform Team's offices this week
+
** Dark Theme is currently a tech preview
** Focus on Juno Stream because LTS builds need to get done
+
** Can produce an SDK but cannot produce many of the other artifacts (That's good enough for LTS which only needs a p2 repo)
+
** Can claim readiness only when binary bits are the same (p2 comparator tool from Olivier - which does byte code level compare of class files, and binary comparison of other files)
+
* John: '''4.x Performance''' - Several people on the team actively looking at issues, some problems identified, some not yet reproduced
+
** Some work started on re-enabling Performance tests
+
** start running on virtual machines to see whether dedicated machines are needed or not
+
** How to improve the process integrating people / resources / donations from companies (EMO pushes towards more contributions)
+
*** Need more committers for longer term, not only short-term patch contributors
+
* Andrew: '''FOSDEM''' Europe (Brussels) coming up - Ian Skerret going to reserve a room, asking for people to join, good conference, lots of cross-pollination
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 5, 2012''' - Andrew, Dani, Martin
+
'''Jun 4, 2014''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex
* Martin: '''Windows 8''' testing ? - Filed {{bug|388560}} to get "Windows 8" added to bugzilla
+
* Dani: '''RC4 Status''' looking good
** Dani: Initial testing by SWT team didn't reveal anything; Dani in favor of getting W8 deployed on Hudson once it is out officially
+
** 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
** Should consider adding to the Kepler plan; consider backports to Juno SR for issues found
+
** Rest of the team working on docs
* Martin: '''3.8 vs 4.2''' - posting on [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev/msg08123.html cross-project list]
+
** Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
** Need to look at stack traces in detail eg {{bug|385272}}. Watch how that E-Mail thread evolves.
+
* John: '''Went over the N&N''' ... number of things went in after M7 :)
* Dani: '''Go/No-Go''' decision process for RC's - to be discussed in the Arch call
+
** Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way
  
<hr/>
 
'''August 29, 2012:''' - John, Dani, Martin
 
* John: Bugzilla's new auto-duplicate-find ... Dani likes it but moved suggestions somewhere else with Greasemonkey to avoid interfering with typing
 
* Tom Watson: Big changes coming in Equinox for Java modularity - thought about Kepler but will wait for another year in a branch
 
** Java 8 also won't be in Kepler ... so will likely be kind of a Maintenance Release
 
* Dani: [[Version Numbering]] document is a bit unclear about upreving from a n.n.2
 
** RESOLUTION: desire is clarifying the next is n.n.100
 
* Dani: '''Delete files from CVS projects''' and add a README ?
 
** Yes if it can be done in an automated way .. to avoid confusion about outdated sources
 
*** eg README points to a Wiki page
 
*** John: Keep the .project in place such that jumping from version to version doesn't break a workspace
 
*** Martin: Acceptance criterion that importing from scmurl in MANIFEST.MF still works (when choosing the tag ... choosing HEAD should bring up the README)
 
* John: '''Plan Update upcoming'''
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 15, 2012:''' - John, Dani, Andrew
+
'''May 28, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
* Do we support removal of bugzilla CLOSED state? Resolved: yes we do
+
* Dani: '''EOL'ing the Delta Pack''' - announce now, remove during Mars - it's been obsoleted by p2 functionality
* Discussion of long term release plans beyond Kepler
+
** Alex: Some of the test suite relied on the delta pack, it caused issues, OK with removing (PDE tests would need to be cleaned up)
 +
* Dani: '''Copyright Updates''' - tool is very slow since not ported from CVS properly, can run for hours
 +
** John: Worth doing periodically but probably won't matter legally since copyright lasts for 7 years
 +
** The change is not without risk (Dani: Could schedule after the release)
 +
** McQ: Should consider updating the tool as part of that work
 +
** Alex: Has a new intern, could use this as an opportunity to join
 +
* Dani: '''RC3 status''' - last planned build - looking good, except for Platform UI, where the list of bugs is still long
 +
* McQ: Discussions about a new Eclipse.org Web-based Toplevel Project
  
<hr/>
 
'''August 8, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
 
* Dani: News from Jeff
 
* McQ vacation from August 13 to August 31
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 25, 2012:'''
+
'''May 14, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
* '''CBI Build'''
+
* Alex: SWT GTK3 and the Endgame Rules
** For SR1, the build can produce what the Release Train needs ... but not all the extra validation
+
* Dani: Luna Plan Update
** Need to run both builds for now ... until the CBI team's bytecode verifier produces the same output
+
* John: New Dashboard created by the EMO
** CBI team continues to look at the list of diffs and improve their builder
+
** Platform team would be OK dropping the legacy build once the bytecode validator has no diffs
+
** Platform team can't commit more resources to CBI now (Paul Webster already heavily involved)
+
* '''Losing Commits on the Orion git repo'''
+
** Dozen commits or so
+
** Might be a defect in the Orion git tools, but the server side should prevent that !!!
+
** DenyNonFastForward should have protected ... need an extra layer of protection ?
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 27, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
'''May 7, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, John, Martin
* Eclipse Demo Camps - none in Ottawa
+
* Martin {{bug|241957}} - GTK clipboard hang
* Going to skip the arch calls for all of July - leave the PMC slot in place.
+
** Alex: GTK guys recommended using the async API, but no time for more investigation
* Should keep an eye on the Community feedback for Eclipse 4
+
** McQ: Switching a sync API to async implementation underneath can be extremely messy (need to be aware of all possible events and event sources...)
 +
** McQ: If there is an idea canceling the clipboard wait ... given that the issue occurs only rarely, even a hacky solution is better than nothing
 +
* Dani: will do a plan update, hopefully this week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 13, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
'''April 30, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
 +
* McQ: '''WB4 perspective customization''' - has it caused any issues ?
 +
** Martin: Dealing with detached views works differently (dragging a window fails - must drag the tab inside the window)
 +
** Dani: Saved perspectives / windows are lost on an existing workspace when moving from 3.x to 4.x
 +
*** Martin/McQ: When crossing the major version boundary, it is OK to lose state - it's not nice but acceptable
 +
** Dani: The bigger problem is, that the whole "Perspective customization" dialog is still not working as expected
 +
*** Martin: Agree with the concern, but the Perspective customization dialog wasn't ever great
 +
*** McQ: If invest work here, rather make it good than bring back the previous status quo
 +
*** Martin: Most customization done via plugin.xml / Java , don't expect end users to do a lot of customization themselves
 +
* Dani: '''M7 status'''
 +
** Defect triage under control - some items deferred to 4.5
  
* Discussed the ECF rebuild request ({{bug|382206}}). Arguments in favor: it is a safe change, it reverts the situation to where it was in RC3 and earlier. Arguments against summarized in https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=382206#c20.
 
* We will need to tag the release but we can wait until we are officially done (week of June 25th).
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 6, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John, Andrew
+
'''April 23, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin
 
+
* Alex - GTK2 or GTK3 as default - GTK3 it is
* Discussion of how to handle test failures for final build. Most of the remaining failures are infrastructure issues related to our move to Hudson for tests. We will document the failures through bugs, and include a note on the build results page for the final build explaining the failures
+
** GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to
* Discussion of whether we need a 3.9 release. Unanimous conclusion was that we do not see a need for it. Reducing to one stream will greatly reduce our development overhead and encourage consolidation around the single stream.
+
*** xulrunner - latest version not supported by swt and latest distros don't even ship standalone xulrunner
* Discussion of how to handle the disappearance of org.eclipse.equinox.concurrent from our RC3 builds. This was never deliberately included in the platform, but was present due to a greedy optional dependency from ECF. By very close 3/2 decision PMC decided to leave it alone and document the disappearance in porting guide, readme file, release review material, and cross-project list.
+
*** webkitgtk - gtk2 version in maintenance mode, upstream consider dropping, really crashy See [https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-gtk/2014-March/001821.html]
 +
** GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
 +
** McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
 +
* Dani - '''Freeze Plan created'''
 +
* John - '''Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret'''
 +
*
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 
+
'''April 16, 2014''' - Dani, Alex
'''May 23, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
+
* no topics today
* McQ: '''CBI / Tycho builder''': Paul Webster driving Platform efforts (AI Martin notify about {{bug|359719}})
+
* Martin: {{bug|380984}} ant / Orbit respin? - Unclear for now
+
* McQ: Finally figured out some long-standing bug eg "Variables view sometimes empty"
+
** Dani: It's 2 issues: First-time switch to Perspective deferred to 4.2.1, but {{bug|379818}} is finally fixed
+
** The actual underlying defect had been in there for years
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 16, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
'''April 9, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
* Dani: '''Version Number''' in branding features gets auto-generated and 3.8 version is now higher than 4.2 (since 3.8 build runs after 3.8)
+
* Dani - '''Kepler SR2 and Java 8'''
** John thinks it's not a big deal
+
** Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
* John: '''CBI Patches''' - CBI has lots of patches downstream in their POM's ... RC2 is the last chance getting that in
+
** Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
** Auto-generating the POM.XML would be nice but that's not how things work today
+
** Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
 +
** Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
  
<hr/>
+
* John - '''Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions'''
'''May 9, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Dani
+
** Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
* John: Classic update can still be enabled via capabilities - should we remove it?
+
** Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
** Dani: in general "yes", but too late now
+
** Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
** McQ: too late, but make sure we do it for Kepler
+
** Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 2, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew, John
 
* John: '''Forking of SWT''' 3.8 and 4.2 are now separate Streams with CTabFolder implementation being the only difference
 
* Dani: '''Icons''' (not discussed)
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''April 2, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
'''April 18, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew, John
+
* Dani - new GTK3+ issues
* Martin: [[E4/Scripting]] initiative
+
** crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX ({{bug|431330}})
** McQ thinks the E4 Application Model should be exposed as a DOM to scripting .. anything other than utilizing the e4 DOM for hiding a view feels wrong
+
** problems with main menu ({{bug|419830}})
*** Martin: Approach is very pragmatic - don't see anybody investing into new Frameworks at this point but converging on what already exists
+
* Dani - '''Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work'''
*** If this goes towards macro recording, the recorder should utilize the e4 app model
+
** Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
** Signing up on the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-scripting-dev eclipse-scripting-dev] mailing list will keep people in the loop (expect low volume)
+
* Dani - need to '''approve API changes for Java 8 in M7'''
* Dani: '''API Approval Process''' Approval on Bug plus sent to eclipse-pmc list (like last year)
+
** No API changes, only additions
* John: '''PDE Committers''' - perception of not being open
+
** Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
** McQ would like to see a plan item for next year "actively promote more committers from outside"
+
** ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
* Martin: [[Asterisk]] - will need a dialin for Dani in Switzerland; '''AI Dani''' forward his dialin to Martin for the time being
+
** There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
 +
* John - '''SWT over JavaFX'''
 +
** EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
 +
** Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
 +
** Relationship to Tom Schindl's [http://www.eclipse.org/efxclipse/index.html e(fx)clipse project] ?
 +
*** e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
 +
*** Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
 +
*** Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in {{bug|426243}}
 +
*** Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
 +
**** It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
 +
**** John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
 +
*** Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX
  
<hr/>
 
'''April 11, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew, John
 
* Martin: '''LTS vs Quality/Fixes in Current Stream''' - Like John's reply making the link between the two
 
* McQ/John: '''Builds''' - Moving forward
 
* McQ: '''CBI Builds''' - Platform not going to take any ownership but will be a consumer like others - still shooting for Juno SR1
 
* Andrew: '''4.2 Builds in Fedora 17''' - Testing now
 
* McQ: '''IBM Ottawa Team moving to new building''' - expect delays during next couple days
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 4, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''March 26, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
* Dani: '''VM Requirements''' - Help no longer works on Java 5, this surprised some people... but Project Plan talks about a Java 6 req now
+
* John - '''EclipseCon Update'''
** Martin suggestion: on the "Required JVM" table in the Project Plan, add a 2nd column with closure of BREE including all pre-reqs (continue having 1st column the BREE of the bundle itself auto-generated)
+
** Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
* Dani: '''Jeff still mentioned as PMC member'''
+
** IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
** '''AI Dani''' send E-Mail
+
** Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
* Martin: '''Concern about Platform Quality''' - eg SWT Redraws on 3.7.x - Old-time committers moving away
+
** Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
** McQ: Platform team's focus will continue being maintenance, and new Platform support ... team's capacity is going down, but SWT is not affected mosted
+
** See also Blog Posts from [http://cdtdoug.ca/ Doug Schaefer] and [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/author/irbull/ Ian Bull] as well as [https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2014/news/top-5-ian-bull top 5 from Ian]
** Martin: Code contributions are easy, hi-quality triage and review are harder
+
* John - '''ARM port of GTK''' - any tracking items ?
** Martin: Re-think the idea of having committers paid by the Foundation and Member Companies paying their share
+
** Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
*** Example: Why would Pascal review p2 in his sparetime ... but if he gets paid per bug his experience can be extremely valuable
+
** IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
*** Be more creative on resourcing side
+
** Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
** McQ: In favor of putting more structure in place similar to LTS ("hire people for fixes") ... just continue with LTS ?
+
** Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
*** IBM will have a need for fixes for at least another 8 years .. but that's a very self-serving focus
+
*** Example: {{bug|430698}}, {{bug|429237}}, {{bug|415757}}; {{bug|419855}} talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
** [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''AI Martin''' send E-Mail to Mike to keep the ball rolling
+
*** Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
* Dani: {{bug|375292}} '''Reference to Marketplace in the SDK'''
+
*** Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
** Martin: "Classic" is a Building Block but "Packages" are for end users
+
**** Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
** McQ: The purity of the SDK in itself isn't relevant
+
**** Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
*** Martin: Why not just create a new package "Classic" which is at +3 and pulls in egit + marketplace ... the process for building is all in place, may just need a package reviewer
+
* Alex - '''Java 8 vs Java 7''' currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
*** [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''AI Martin''' mail Markus
+
** In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
 +
** ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is {{bug|390889}} and we'll try to fix it for M7.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 21, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Andrew, Martin
+
'''March 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
* McQ '''Oracle Java on Mac'''
+
* McQ - '''Congrats on Java 8 Release''' to coincide with the Oracle release
* Dani '''denyNonFastForward'''
+
* Dani - '''Windows 8 Support''' - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
* McQ '''JDT Team might see some losses'''
+
** McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
* Andrew '''Running OpenJDK tests now on ARM''' :)
+
** Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
 +
** Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 14, 2012:''' - McQ, Andrew, Dani, John
+
'''March 12, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, McQ, John
* Losing Eclipse project release engineer next week
+
* GTK - SWT team discussions
* David Williams is stepping in to help with our builds until Juno
+
* John - '''preparing for Java 8 release'''
* Most immediate issue is that our build needs elevated privileges to tag, sign, and promote builds
+
** kmoir was the only committer with sufficient privileges
+
** We either need to give another committer sufficient rights, or give build user access it needs
+
** Could use hooks to ensure build user isn't doing anything other than tagging
+
** All agreed the build user approach was the best option. John to open bug against foundation to carry it out
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 7, 2012:''' - McQ, Andrew, Martin, John
+
'''March 5, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
* John: '''API Deletions''' {{bug|370248}} - PMC agrees.
+
* Dani: '''How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit''' - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
* McQ: '''Common Build Infrastructure at the Foundation'''
+
* Dani: '''Windows 8 Support'''
** Shipping Platform Juno bits built by PDE ... but Foundation wants EPP packages built by Tycho; Platform can't support this
+
** Not listed in official plan
*** Reason might be that 4.2 is planned to be the start of LTS and VLTS .. ok for now if LTS bits are different since not publicly available
+
** No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
*** Plus, LTS really starts after Juno SR2 ... Platform might be in a better position for Tycho by then
+
** Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
*** In Linux, Fedora also builds by themselves ... but assumption is that people come to Fedora support first
+
** Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
** Martin, Andrew really concerned about fragmentation and duplication of effort ... eg what if the qualifiers don't match
+
** AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
** Should be treated as proof of concept but not publicly available until Juno SR2, in order to avoid fragmentation !
+
*** Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
 +
* Dani: '''State of GTK 3+'''
 +
** Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
 +
** Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
 +
** Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
 +
** Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
 +
** On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
 +
** Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
 +
* Alex: '''GTK 3 in Mars'''
 +
** Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
 +
** RHEL 5 would no longer work
 +
** Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 29, 2012:''' - Dani, McQ, John, Martin, Andrew
+
'''February 26, 2014''' - Alex, John, Martin, McQ
* John: Orion team received a box full of '''Black Ducks''' to honour their Black Duck Rookie of the Year award
+
* John: '''Orion Release''' this week
* Dani: '''Gerrit Move'''
+
** John: Important information needs to stay in Bugzilla ... don't pull from outside git exclusively
+
* Andrew: '''Platform Defect Contest'''
+
** McQ concern: Lots of duplicate bugs would take focus away from the team
+
** Martin: Could encourage triage as part of the contest, and only count good/new bugs
+
** John: Some low-hanging fruit bugs in Platform UI but not necessarily in 4.x ("helpwanted")
+
** John: Re-introduce the "greatbug" keyword ?
+
*** A greatbug is relevant, new, good description that helps understanding/finding the issue; ideally with a patch.
+
*** Resolution: '''AI John''' send note to Mike
+
* John: '''PDE API Moved'''
+
** Some internal, provisional API was migrated to full API in this release
+
** Someone from SAP (Dimitar Giormov) Asked adding back the provisional API such that they could support 2 versions of Eclipse with one codebase
+
** McQ: Would have helped them 4 years ago .. but at the moment don't have enough people
+
*** McQ: Question how pervasive their use of the old API is ... how much Reflection would they need to put int
+
*** One resolution could be OK but only if they provide all the patches
+
** This kind of duplication is error prone and adds a maintenance burden on the project
+
  
<hr/>
+
* Alex: '''Eclipse on ARM64'''
'''February 22, 2012:''' - Dani, McQ, John, Andrew
+
** Launcher and swt at first
* Repeat of PDE build discussion from last week. We decided to nominate John Arthorne as a committer so we at least have someone to accept community patches. We will revisit after Juno and perhaps do a larger restructuring
+
** Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
* Communication with eGit: We have written some patches for eGit that have been growing stale. Dani will review the patches, and then send an email to eGit lead asking if there is a particular reason for not accepting them. If there is no problem with the patches we will track down an eGit committer to release them.
+
** John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
* Andrew asked about process for approving CQs:
+
*** Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
** Any PMC member can feel free to approve CQs
+
*** At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
** New versions of existing third party libraries are a no-brainer, typically just +1 right away
+
** Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
** For new third party libraries we may need a PMC discussion about why the library is needed, what feature it will live in, etc
+
** For code contributions just make sure the legal process has been followed and then +1. We generally trust the judgement of the committer who will process the contribution.
+
  
<hr/>
+
* Dani: Update on '''GTK 3+ issue''' - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
'''February 15, 2012:''' - Dani, McQ, John
+
** Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
* Some discussion of what to do with PDE Build, which lacks committers. PDE as a whole has barely enough committers to be a functioning project, so maybe we should be looking at a larger restructuring after
+
** McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
Juno rather than one piece at a time. We lacked quorum to make a decision so we will defer discussion to another week.
+
*** If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
 +
*** Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
 +
*** Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it
  
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 8, 2012:''' - Dani, Martin, Andrew, McQ
+
'''February 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
* Andrew: Eclipse stand at '''FOSDEM in Brussles'''
+
* Dani: '''Silenio to work on GTK issue?'''
** Lots of people just dropped by to say hi and thanks
+
* John: '''GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation'''
** Mike Milinkovich was showing off Orion; Gunnar and Andrew did others (Web, EclipseRT, C/C++)
+
* John: '''e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools'''
* McQ: '''4.2 Quality''' ... current list of defects looks manageable to tick all off .. any messaging we want to do ?
+
** Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
 +
** Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
 +
** Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
 +
** John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
 +
** Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
 +
*** If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
 +
** Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 1, 2012:''' - Dani, Martin, John
+
'''February 5, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
* Dani: '''No UA Committers any more''' - move UA under Platform UI such that at least somebody can apply patches
+
* Dani: '''Confcall Numbers:''' Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
** AI John check with Wayne ... UA is a subcomponent now, may not even need a move review.
+
* Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
* Dani: {{bug|343150}} git '''DenyNonFastForward'''
+
* Alex: Testing on modern Linux
** Orion could eventually add tooling to support easy workflows in spite of deny on the repo ... but not in this release
+
** Ping on the bug again and proceed
+
* John: Decide when to switch 4.2 builds from re-using 3.x binary bundles vs full 4.x builds
+
** Today, the 4.x testsuite just tests 4.x specific stuff; things like JDT tests just run against 3.8 today
+
** Today, cannot generate Javadocs in 4.x today sine it needs the full source
+
** Today, nightlies are running 3.x only (could change to running 4.x nightlies only)
+
** Today, 3.x builds run at IBM and 4.x builds run at Eclipse.org
+
** Only few test failures left in the 4.x builds --&gt; ready to switch
+
** AI: '''Kim''' to send 4.x test results to the mailing list, consider switching right after M5
+
** '''Performance Tests:''' Not yet run on 4.x yet - should be able to run on Denis' vserver
+
*** IBM is going to lose the physical machines for performance tests in 2 weeks ! (Going to migrate to vserver too!)
+
*** Need a new baseline
+
** Andrew: at '''FOSSLC''' in Brussels this week, going to represent Eclipse with Mike Milinkovich, Gunnar Wagenknecht and others
+
* '''Gerrit''': Platform won't jump in as an early adopter this time, wait for other projects first
+
** Not all Platform Unittests can run on Hudson today (need at least some fingerprint tests to get value from Gerrit)
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 25, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew, Dani
+
'''January 22, 2014''' - John, Dani, Alex, Martin
* McQ: '''Note about 4.2 on Release Train'''
+
* John, Alex: '''New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora'''
* Andrew: '''Eclipse 4.2 for Fedora''' - Feature note written for Eclipse Juno led to some discussion at Eng.Steering Committee, but finally approved
+
** Alex been looking at Browser
* Dani: Team down by 1 but no impact (Dani is going to take over responsibilities)
+
** Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
* John: '''Build Failures in UA, Update, PDE, p2 yesterday''' after the move to Java 7... nobody watching these, need to find caretakers
+
** Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
** UA tests often fail due to a link validity checker, these can be caused by anyone
+
*** Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
** Certificate Validity issue (Jar signing)
+
*** Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
 
+
* Dani: '''M5 Status'''
 +
** Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 18, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew, Dani
+
'''January 15, 2014''' - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin
* McQ: '''4.2 quality''' and next steps
+
* Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
** More resources found to enable 4.2 as the LTS base - encouraging, although some items still missing
+
* Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion
** Fedora 17 think about shipping 4.2m6 (work ongoing) - that would be a large stack on top of 4.2
+
** John: '''Oracle Java 7 as Reference Platform''' now that the most severe issues are fixed (Java 6 EOL is June 2012 !) - that is Oracle, not OpenJDK
+
*** Not remove Java 6 for now
+
*** Fedora also does all tests on 7
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 11, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''January 8, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ
* McQ: '''State of Presentation API's'''
+
* Dani: '''API Freeze''' with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception
** Different API's in 4.2 and 3.x -- will need to deprecate API in 3.x
+
** Christian suggested deleting API that's not implemented in 4.x to get compile errors ... John thinks that binary compatibility is more important
+
*** Plugins will be "mostly OK", presentation API is cosmetic anyways
+
** McQ: get in touch with clients who use presentation API, telling them what's best to do ... often newer 4.x infrastructure is much better than trying to keep 3.x around forever
+
* Andrew: '''Cairo and GTK3'''
+
* John: '''4.2 compiling now'''
+
* Martin: '''Updated JSch-0.1.44 version''' - how to announce properly
+
** AI Martin Announce on eclipse-dev and cross-project
+
** Should also put into migrtion notes and README
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''January 4, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
* McQ: Pascal's note about p2 leadership .. not sure who could step in and make a commitment (may see the same fate as UA)
+
** Tom Watson looking for candidates, but looks like none in McQ's team
+
<hr/>
+
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Latest revision as of 23:55, 11 June 2014

Contents

[edit] Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

[edit] Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every wednesday at 10.30am EST.

[edit] Meeting Minutes

Jun 11, 2014 - Martin, McQ, Alex, John

  • John: Eclipse Theming: When switching the OS Theme to dark, Eclipse should be aware
    • Dark Theme is currently a tech preview

Jun 4, 2014 - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: RC4 Status looking good
    • 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
    • Rest of the team working on docs
    • Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
  • John: Went over the N&N ... number of things went in after M7 :)
    • Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way



May 28, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: EOL'ing the Delta Pack - announce now, remove during Mars - it's been obsoleted by p2 functionality
    • Alex: Some of the test suite relied on the delta pack, it caused issues, OK with removing (PDE tests would need to be cleaned up)
  • Dani: Copyright Updates - tool is very slow since not ported from CVS properly, can run for hours
    • John: Worth doing periodically but probably won't matter legally since copyright lasts for 7 years
    • The change is not without risk (Dani: Could schedule after the release)
    • McQ: Should consider updating the tool as part of that work
    • Alex: Has a new intern, could use this as an opportunity to join
  • Dani: RC3 status - last planned build - looking good, except for Platform UI, where the list of bugs is still long
  • McQ: Discussions about a new Eclipse.org Web-based Toplevel Project



May 14, 2014 - Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Alex: SWT GTK3 and the Endgame Rules
  • Dani: Luna Plan Update
  • John: New Dashboard created by the EMO

May 7, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Martin bug 241957 - GTK clipboard hang
    • Alex: GTK guys recommended using the async API, but no time for more investigation
    • McQ: Switching a sync API to async implementation underneath can be extremely messy (need to be aware of all possible events and event sources...)
    • McQ: If there is an idea canceling the clipboard wait ... given that the issue occurs only rarely, even a hacky solution is better than nothing
  • Dani: will do a plan update, hopefully this week

April 30, 2014 - Dani, Martin, McQ

  • McQ: WB4 perspective customization - has it caused any issues ?
    • Martin: Dealing with detached views works differently (dragging a window fails - must drag the tab inside the window)
    • Dani: Saved perspectives / windows are lost on an existing workspace when moving from 3.x to 4.x
      • Martin/McQ: When crossing the major version boundary, it is OK to lose state - it's not nice but acceptable
    • Dani: The bigger problem is, that the whole "Perspective customization" dialog is still not working as expected
      • Martin: Agree with the concern, but the Perspective customization dialog wasn't ever great
      • McQ: If invest work here, rather make it good than bring back the previous status quo
      • Martin: Most customization done via plugin.xml / Java , don't expect end users to do a lot of customization themselves
  • Dani: M7 status
    • Defect triage under control - some items deferred to 4.5



April 23, 2014 - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin

  • Alex - GTK2 or GTK3 as default - GTK3 it is
    • GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to
      • xulrunner - latest version not supported by swt and latest distros don't even ship standalone xulrunner
      • webkitgtk - gtk2 version in maintenance mode, upstream consider dropping, really crashy See [1]
    • GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
    • McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
  • Dani - Freeze Plan created
  • John - Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret

April 16, 2014 - Dani, Alex

  • no topics today

April 9, 2014 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani - Kepler SR2 and Java 8
    • Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
    • Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
    • Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
    • Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
  • John - Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions
    • Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
    • Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
    • Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
    • Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches

April 2, 2014 - Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Dani - new GTK3+ issues
    • crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX (bug 431330)
    • problems with main menu (bug 419830)
  • Dani - Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work
    • Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
  • Dani - need to approve API changes for Java 8 in M7
    • No API changes, only additions
    • Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
    • ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
    • There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
  • John - SWT over JavaFX
    • EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
    • Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
    • Relationship to Tom Schindl's e(fx)clipse project ?
      • e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
      • Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
      • Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in bug 426243
      • Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
        • It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
        • John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
      • Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX



March 26, 2014 - John, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • John - EclipseCon Update
    • Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
    • IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
    • Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
    • Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
    • See also Blog Posts from Doug Schaefer and Ian Bull as well as top 5 from Ian
  • John - ARM port of GTK - any tracking items ?
    • Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
    • IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
    • Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
    • Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
      • Example: bug 430698, bug 429237, bug 415757; bug 419855 talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
      • Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
      • Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
        • Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
        • Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
  • Alex - Java 8 vs Java 7 currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
    • In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
    • ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is bug 390889 and we'll try to fix it for M7.

March 19, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • McQ - Congrats on Java 8 Release to coincide with the Oracle release
  • Dani - Windows 8 Support - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
    • McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
    • Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
    • Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation

March 12, 2014 - Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • GTK - SWT team discussions
  • John - preparing for Java 8 release

March 5, 2014 - John, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
  • Dani: Windows 8 Support
    • Not listed in official plan
    • No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
    • Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
    • Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
    • AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
      • Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
  • Dani: State of GTK 3+
    • Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
    • Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
    • Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
    • Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
    • On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
    • Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
  • Alex: GTK 3 in Mars
    • Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
    • RHEL 5 would no longer work
    • Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI

February 26, 2014 - Alex, John, Martin, McQ

  • John: Orion Release this week
  • Alex: Eclipse on ARM64
    • Launcher and swt at first
    • Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
    • John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
      • Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
      • At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
    • Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
  • Dani: Update on GTK 3+ issue - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
    • Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
    • McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
      • If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
      • Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
      • Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it



February 19, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin, John

  • Dani: Silenio to work on GTK issue?
  • John: GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation
  • John: e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools
    • Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
    • Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
    • Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
    • John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
    • Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
      • If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
    • Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE

February 5, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Confcall Numbers: Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
  • Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
  • Alex: Testing on modern Linux

January 22, 2014 - John, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • John, Alex: New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora
    • Alex been looking at Browser
    • Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
    • Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
      • Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
      • Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
  • Dani: M5 Status
    • Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier

January 15, 2014 - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin

  • Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
  • Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion

January 8, 2014 - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ

  • Dani: API Freeze with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception

[edit] Archive