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= Documents =
 
= Documents =
 
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
  
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= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
'''June 13, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
 
  
* Discussed the ECF rebuild request ({{bug|382206}}). Arguments in favor: it is a safe change, it reverts the situation to where it was in RC3 and earlier. Arguments against summarized in https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=382206#c20.
+
'''August 8, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani
* We will need to tag the release but we can wait until we are officially done (week of June 25th).
+
* Eclipse [[Asterisk]] system is not working reliably (again). It took Dani 6 minutes until he could dial in (using the Swiss number - US number failed repeatedly). McQ can't dial in until 10 min later.
 +
* Dani: starting the '''planning record for Photon''' to announce participation in M1
 +
** Toplevel items: JUnit5, Java9. Subplans on the Wiki.
 +
* Dani: '''subproject merge''' - wanted to wait for M1, but should be done this week
 +
* Alex: '''ppc64be''' - Sravan is waiting on final decision whether it will be removed in Photon
 +
** Dani: PMC decision was settled, so removed from Eclipse plan - IBM ''might'' still continue building it for internal use
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''August 1, 2017''' - no call
  
'''June 6, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John, Andrew
+
'''July 25, 2017''' - Alex, Lars, Dani
 
+
* project merge got go, Dani to implement it with webmaster and then send out the announcement this or next week. E-mail will also mention that existing project leads can become co-leads on Eclipse Platform
* Discussion of how to handle test failures for final build. Most of the remaining failures are infrastructure issues related to our move to Hudson for tests. We will document the failures through bugs, and include a note on the build results page for the final build explaining the failures
+
* Discussion if CVS should be removed from the SDK build, Alex +1, Lars +1, Dani +1
* Discussion of whether we need a 3.9 release. Unanimous conclusion was that we do not see a need for it. Reducing to one stream will greatly reduce our development overhead and encourage consolidation around the single stream.
+
* Discussion if the remaining 2.0 compatibility layer can be removed, Dani: OK to remove but other plug-ins might still have dependencies to it, must the also updated, as well as the documentation
* Discussion of how to handle the disappearance of org.eclipse.equinox.concurrent from our RC3 builds. This was never deliberately included in the platform, but was present due to a greedy optional dependency from ECF. By very close 3/2 decision PMC decided to leave it alone and document the disappearance in porting guide, readme file, release review material, and cross-project list.
+
  
 +
'''July 18, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
 +
* project merge review awaiting go from Wayne - Dani pinged again in the bug report
 +
* Dani will kick off planning for Photon a bit earlier since he will be in Bangalore the next 12 days. Platform UI already started.
 +
* M1 on August 11
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''July 11, 2017''' - no meeting
  
'''May 23, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
+
'''July 4, 2017''' - no meeting
* McQ: '''CBI / Tycho builder''': Paul Webster driving Platform efforts (AI Martin notify about {{bug|359719}})
+
* Martin: {{bug|380984}} ant / Orbit respin? - Unclear for now
+
* McQ: Finally figured out some long-standing bug eg "Variables view sometimes empty"
+
** Dani: It's 2 issues: First-time switch to Perspective deferred to 4.2.1, but {{bug|379818}} is finally fixed
+
** The actual underlying defect had been in there for years
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 16, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
'''June 27, 2017''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
* Dani: '''Version Number''' in branding features gets auto-generated and 3.8 version is now higher than 4.2 (since 3.8 build runs after 3.8)
+
* '''Equinox Merge to the Eclipse TLP'''
** John thinks it's not a big deal
+
** Keep Equinox as a separate Project, to allow independent Equinox releases without Platform (and keep Bugzilla simple)
* John: '''CBI Patches''' - CBI has lots of patches downstream in their POM's ... RC2 is the last chance getting that in
+
** The only argument for stronger integration would be getting more committers, but there is no strong need and we have the FastTrack process in place for that
** Auto-generating the POM.XML would be nice but that's not how things work today
+
* '''Eclipse Merge of Component (Sub)Projects into Platform'''
 +
** Just 4 Projects: Platform, Equinox, JDT, PDE (plus the incubators for e4 and JDT)
 +
** Former (Sub)Project Leads to become "Component Leads", "Technology Owners" or "Repository Owners"
 +
*** Repository Ownership is appealing as the structure is very clear (+1 Dani,Alex,McQ)
 +
** Platform Lead initially Dani, more Co-Leads could step up if they want
 +
*** Main work is helping component leads if they can't come to a consensus - usually less work than PMC duties
 +
* Dani: '''JSR 376 Ballot'''
 +
** Public review reconsideration ballot got approved by all except Red Hat who abstained
 +
** Much progress in the past weeks, consensus except RH abstained
 +
** Looks like the OOBE of Java9 would tolerate reflection, currently looks like on track for a September Release
 +
* '''Vacations''' many people will be off next week, especially in the U.S.
 +
** PMC call will be skipped next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 9, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Dani
+
'''June 20, 2017''' - MQ, Dani, Lars, Alex
* John: Classic update can still be enabled via capabilities - should we remove it?
+
* Attracting new contributors discussions - code cleanup and deletion of old paths needed
** Dani: in general "yes", but too late now
+
** Alex: Big issue to get people working on codebase and considering many now irrelevant paths in the codebase
** McQ: too late, but make sure we do it for Kepler
+
** Dani: Cleanups should be done by the one starting them through the whole SDK
 +
** Lars: Not feasible as some projects are slower pace moving and the change might require more effort than one can or is willing to spend in his free time
 +
** Alex: Great opportunity to have new people joining by doing simple tasks and grow them into full committers
 +
** McQ: We have to come up with list of items we would like to get cleaned and properly follow our deprecation policy even if the migration guide for Photon get really big with things we schedule for removal in the future.
 +
* Dani: Sub-projects merge
 +
** Name of the new project - McQ: Everyone refers to it as Platform so natural choice it is
 +
** JDT, PDE, Platform (subprojects) to become single project
 +
** Person responsible for some code area in the merged project - to be further dicussed
 +
* Dani: Dropping Xulrunner support - PMC to approve it in the bug
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 2, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew, John
+
'''Juni 13, 2017''' - MQ, Dani, Lars
* John: '''Forking of SWT''' 3.8 and 4.2 are now separate Streams with CTabFolder implementation being the only difference
+
* Dani: Release review for 4.7 was successful
* Dani: '''Icons''' (not discussed)
+
* Dani: Rebuild for 4.7RCa required due to new EMF version and a fix for a critical bug which resulted in duplicated menu entries
 +
 
 +
* Merge of the sub-projects
 +
** Planned for M1, desired to be coordinated with the move of Equinox to Platform
 +
** We prefer to keep the project pages and wikis so that all the information is kept
 +
** Preferable we want to have one committer list for Eclipse platform
 +
** Dani to check with foundation how the merge can be done
 +
 
 +
'''May 30, 2017''' - Martin, Dani, Lars
 +
* Dani: Please approve or disapprove the release review
 +
* Dani: '''Starting the Debugger doesn't work always'''
 +
** Occurs for Lars, but isn't reproducible - one of the top 3 things to fix if steps to reproduce are found
 +
** Lars: Equinox replaced the DS implementation in 4.7, the issue is probably related
 +
** Failure is totally random: On a very slow Virtual Machine, it failed almost always (9 failures out of 10); on other machine it works most of the time; even after working fine 3 times, it may fail the 4th time; seems to occur more frequently on older machines than newer ones.
 +
** Martin: try with a reverse debugger like [http://chrononsystems.com/products/chronon-time-travelling-debugger/download Chronon] ?
 +
*** Should help by just collecting a log; and when the failure occurs, "play back" the log to understand under what condition the race condition occurs; the a reproducible case is available, and the log can also be sent around between different developers for investigation, potentiall also to Apache Felix upstream
 +
* Dani: '''Equinox Launcher Issues'''
 +
** During M7, a change was made to ignore certain command-line arguments
 +
** This caused 2 regressions - {{bug|517013}} and {{bug|516349}} MacOSX restart regression
 +
** Java 9 will probably change the parameters again, see {{bug|516911}} :(
 +
** It's getting too late to make any more changes to the Launcher. Re-compiling on different hardware has already caused {{bug|517013}}, it's possible that more issues (not yet known) might be caused by the rebuild. With Java 9 probably changing again, we don't win much by rebuilding to try and align with something that's not yet released.
 +
*** Option A: Put options into the eclipse.ini -- today it works for both Java 8 and Java 9
 +
*** Option B: Add the "probably proposed" new option to the launcher, will need to rebuild the launcher again
 +
*** Option C: Revert the launcher to what it was before (and well tested) back to M6 - for running with Java 9, the options have to be added manually
 +
** Users will have to read on a webpage what needs to be done for Java 9 launching; for Eclipse SDK, a single option is needed - some add-on components
 +
*** Additional complexity: Different JVMs need different options (IBM, Oracle...)
 +
*** Martin: {{bug|517452}} Introduce a fallback mechanism to the launcher, which reads the Java ID and loads 'eclipse-javaID.ini' with a fallback to 'eclipse.ini', but does not seem reasonable for Oxygen since too late
 +
*** Better to have a clean story: At IBM, the entire build environment changed ... reverting gets us back to a bullet-proof launcher that was tested for 7 milestones ... will work safely with Java 8, for Java 9 people will have to read the N&N or StackOverflow to find out about the right arguments - same as in Neon
 +
* '''AGREEMENT to revert the Launcher to the M6 version'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 18, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew, John
+
'''May 23, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ
* Martin: [[E4/Scripting]] initiative
+
* Dani: '''Apache Batik XXE Vulnerability'''
** McQ thinks the E4 Application Model should be exposed as a DOM to scripting .. anything other than utilizing the e4 DOM for hiding a view feels wrong
+
** Alex: Moving to Batik 1.9 would be good, but there is so much UI breakage that it's not viable for Oxygen
*** Martin: Approach is very pragmatic - don't see anybody investing into new Frameworks at this point but converging on what already exists
+
* Martin: '''Bugs discovered during RC test cycle'''
*** If this goes towards macro recording, the recorder should utilize the e4 app model
+
** Surprised that some low-priority issues do get attention ({{bug|517108}}) while others get no response at all ({{bug|517013}}
** Signing up on the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-scripting-dev eclipse-scripting-dev] mailing list will keep people in the loop (expect low volume)
+
** Dani: Only interested in severe issues and regressions - send message to platform-releng-dev with severe regressions found
* Dani: '''API Approval Process''' Approval on Bug plus sent to eclipse-pmc list (like last year)
+
** Dani: Please +1 the Gerrit for {{bug|517108}}
* John: '''PDE Committers''' - perception of not being open
+
** McQ would like to see a plan item for next year "actively promote more committers from outside"
+
* Martin: [[Asterisk]] - will need a dialin for Dani in Switzerland; '''AI Dani''' forward his dialin to Martin for the time being
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 11, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew, John
+
'''May 16, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars
* Martin: '''LTS vs Quality/Fixes in Current Stream''' - Like John's reply making the link between the two
+
* Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
* McQ/John: '''Builds''' - Moving forward
+
** Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
* McQ: '''CBI Builds''' - Platform not going to take any ownership but will be a consumer like others - still shooting for Juno SR1
+
* {{bug|509922}} Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
* Andrew: '''4.2 Builds in Fedora 17''' - Testing now
+
** Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
* McQ: '''IBM Ottawa Team moving to new building''' - expect delays during next couple days
+
** Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
 +
* '''Test failures:''' Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
 +
** Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
 +
** CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
 +
** UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
 +
* {{bug|516114}} Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
 +
** Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
 +
** The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
 +
** That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
 +
** Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
 +
*** The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
 +
** '''AGREEMENT:''' In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
 +
*** Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
 +
*** McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
 +
* Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
 +
* Alex: '''Project Structure'''
 +
** Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
 +
** Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
 +
** In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
 +
** Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
 +
** McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
 +
** Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move forward on this, with a ''Platform Leadership'' group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 4, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''May 9, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ
* Dani: '''VM Requirements''' - Help no longer works on Java 5, this surprised some people... but Project Plan talks about a Java 6 req now
+
* Dani: '''JSR376 Jigsaw''': 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
** Martin suggestion: on the "Required JVM" table in the Project Plan, add a 2nd column with closure of BREE including all pre-reqs (continue having 1st column the BREE of the bundle itself auto-generated)
+
** From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
* Dani: '''Jeff still mentioned as PMC member'''
+
** JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
** '''AI Dani''' send E-Mail
+
** For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
* Martin: '''Concern about Platform Quality''' - eg SWT Redraws on 3.7.x - Old-time committers moving away
+
** JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
** McQ: Platform team's focus will continue being maintenance, and new Platform support ... team's capacity is going down, but SWT is not affected mosted
+
* Dani: '''M7/RC0''' - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
** Martin: Code contributions are easy, hi-quality triage and review are harder
+
** When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
** Martin: Re-think the idea of having committers paid by the Foundation and Member Companies paying their share
+
**# Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
*** Example: Why would Pascal review p2 in his sparetime ... but if he gets paid per bug his experience can be extremely valuable
+
**# Section forms layout
*** Be more creative on resourcing side
+
* Dani: '''httpcore 4.4.1 -&gt; 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility'''
** McQ: In favor of putting more structure in place similar to LTS ("hire people for fixes") ... just continue with LTS ?
+
** Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
*** IBM will have a need for fixes for at least another 8 years .. but that's a very self-serving focus
+
** People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
** [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''AI Martin''' send E-Mail to Mike to keep the ball rolling
+
** Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
* Dani: {{bug|375292}} '''Reference to Marketplace in the SDK'''
+
** Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
** Martin: "Classic" is a Building Block but "Packages" are for end users
+
** Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
** McQ: The purity of the SDK in itself isn't relevant
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
*** Martin: Why not just create a new package "Classic" which is at +3 and pulls in egit + marketplace ... the process for building is all in place, may just need a package reviewer
+
* Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
*** [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''AI Martin''' mail Markus
+
* Dani: '''Release Review''', does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
 +
** All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
 +
** McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
 +
** Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
 +
** Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 21, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Andrew, Martin
+
'''May 2, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
* McQ '''Oracle Java on Mac'''
+
* Lars: '''Regex Evaluator Plugin'''
* Dani '''denyNonFastForward'''
+
** Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
* McQ '''JDT Team might see some losses'''
+
** Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
* Andrew '''Running OpenJDK tests now on ARM''' :)
+
** McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
 +
* Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
 +
* Dani: '''JSR Jigsaw Ballot'''
 +
** Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 14, 2012:''' - McQ, Andrew, Dani, John
+
'''Apr 25, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
* Losing Eclipse project release engineer next week
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3a'''
* David Williams is stepping in to help with our builds until Juno
+
** Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
* Most immediate issue is that our build needs elevated privileges to tag, sign, and promote builds
+
*** '''AI Alex''' tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
** kmoir was the only committer with sufficient privileges
+
*** Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem
** We either need to give another committer sufficient rights, or give build user access it needs
+
** Could use hooks to ensure build user isn't doing anything other than tagging
+
** All agreed the build user approach was the best option. John to open bug against foundation to carry it out
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 7, 2012:''' - McQ, Andrew, Martin, John
+
'''Apr 18, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
* John: '''API Deletions''' {{bug|370248}} - PMC agrees.
+
* Dani: '''RH and Java9 Jigsaw'''
* McQ: '''Common Build Infrastructure at the Foundation'''
+
** Very good write-up linked from the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03385.html AC Mailinglist] - see also [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03389.html follow-up]
** Shipping Platform Juno bits built by PDE ... but Foundation wants EPP packages built by Tycho; Platform can't support this
+
** Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
*** Reason might be that 4.2 is planned to be the start of LTS and VLTS .. ok for now if LTS bits are different since not publicly available
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3 Respin'''
*** Plus, LTS really starts after Juno SR2 ... Platform might be in a better position for Tycho by then
+
** Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
*** In Linux, Fedora also builds by themselves ... but assumption is that people come to Fedora support first
+
* Lars: '''[https://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/glance#group-details Glance] Migration''' to e4 and/or Platform
** Martin, Andrew really concerned about fragmentation and duplication of effort ... eg what if the qualifiers don't match
+
** e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
** Should be treated as proof of concept but not publicly available until Juno SR2, in order to avoid fragmentation !
+
* Lars
 +
** JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 29, 2012:''' - Dani, McQ, John, Martin, Andrew
+
'''Apr 11, 2017''' - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani
* John: Orion team received a box full of '''Black Ducks''' to honour their Black Duck Rookie of the Year award
+
* Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
* Dani: '''Gerrit Move'''
+
** There will be a special drop for Java 9 in July, but it has not yet been decided whether it will be a release where users automatically get the update, or a special p2 repository or Marketplace entry where the update can be done on demand.
** John: Important information needs to stay in Bugzilla ... don't pull from outside git exclusively
+
** Issues with Neon.3. A respin might be necessary. For details see https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/msg02741.html.
* Andrew: '''Platform Defect Contest'''
+
* Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.
** McQ concern: Lots of duplicate bugs would take focus away from the team
+
** Martin: Could encourage triage as part of the contest, and only count good/new bugs
+
** John: Some low-hanging fruit bugs in Platform UI but not necessarily in 4.x ("helpwanted")
+
** John: Re-introduce the "greatbug" keyword ?
+
*** A greatbug is relevant, new, good description that helps understanding/finding the issue; ideally with a patch.
+
*** Resolution: '''AI John''' send note to Mike
+
* John: '''PDE API Moved'''
+
** Some internal, provisional API was migrated to full API in this release
+
** Someone from SAP (Dimitar Giormov) Asked adding back the provisional API such that they could support 2 versions of Eclipse with one codebase
+
** McQ: Would have helped them 4 years ago .. but at the moment don't have enough people
+
*** McQ: Question how pervasive their use of the old API is ... how much Reflection would they need to put int
+
*** One resolution could be OK but only if they provide all the patches
+
** This kind of duplication is error prone and adds a maintenance burden on the project
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 22, 2012:''' - Dani, McQ, John, Andrew
+
'''Apr 04, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
* Repeat of PDE build discussion from last week. We decided to nominate John Arthorne as a committer so we at least have someone to accept community patches. We will revisit after Juno and perhaps do a larger restructuring
+
* Martin: {{bug|514257}} and [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev/msg14316.html cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue]
* Communication with eGit: We have written some patches for eGit that have been growing stale. Dani will review the patches, and then send an email to eGit lead asking if there is a particular reason for not accepting them. If there is no problem with the patches we will track down an eGit committer to release them.
+
** Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
* Andrew asked about process for approving CQs:
+
** Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
** Any PMC member can feel free to approve CQs
+
** Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
** New versions of existing third party libraries are a no-brainer, typically just +1 right away
+
*** Commons Logging is not a Singleton
** For new third party libraries we may need a PMC discussion about why the library is needed, what feature it will live in, etc
+
** Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
** For code contributions just make sure the legal process has been followed and then +1. We generally trust the judgement of the committer who will process the contribution.
+
* Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
 +
* Dani: '''PPC''' - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 15, 2012:''' - Dani, McQ, John
+
'''Mar 28, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
* Some discussion of what to do with PDE Build, which lacks committers. PDE as a whole has barely enough committers to be a functioning project, so maybe we should be looking at a larger restructuring after
+
* Replacement for Sergey
Juno rather than one piece at a time. We lacked quorum to make a decision so we will defer discussion to another week.
+
** let's wait and see how things go
 +
** next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
 +
* Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
 +
** all agree
 +
** McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
 +
* Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
 +
* Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)
  
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''Mar 21, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''Dirk Fauth''' [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02891.html Requests on eclipse-pmc]
 +
** Alex agrees with Dani
 +
** Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
 +
** Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
 +
* Dani: '''Szymon Ptasiewicz'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 8, 2012:''' - Dani, Martin, Andrew, McQ
+
'''Mar 14, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
* Andrew: Eclipse stand at '''FOSDEM in Brussles'''
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 readiness''' - see [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev cross-project-issues-dev]
** Lots of people just dropped by to say hi and thanks
+
** Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
** Mike Milinkovich was showing off Orion; Gunnar and Andrew did others (Web, EclipseRT, C/C++)
+
*** Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
* McQ: '''4.2 Quality''' ... current list of defects looks manageable to tick all off .. any messaging we want to do ?
+
** Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the [[Java 9 Readiness]] wiki can show violations
 +
*** Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
 +
*** Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
 +
** Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
 +
** All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
 +
*** This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
 +
** Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
 +
* Dani: '''JUnit 5''' considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
 +
** Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
 +
* Dani: '''2 Platform Issues in M6'''
 +
** platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
 +
** major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
 +
*** In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
 +
*** In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
 +
* Alex: '''Generic Editor and Testing'''
 +
** Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
 +
** Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
 +
** Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
 +
** In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 1, 2012:''' - Dani, Martin, John
+
'''Mar 7, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars
* Dani: '''No UA Committers any more''' - move UA under Platform UI such that at least somebody can apply patches
+
* Dani: '''4.6.3 Updates''' - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
** AI John check with Wayne ... UA is a subcomponent now, may not even need a move review.
+
* Dani: '''4.7M7 Update''' - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
* Dani: {{bug|343150}} git '''DenyNonFastForward'''
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 / Planning Council Update''' - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
** Orion could eventually add tooling to support easy workflows in spite of deny on the repo ... but not in this release
+
** See the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/ eclipse.org-planning-council archives]
** Ping on the bug again and proceed
+
* Lars: '''Platform.Resources Leadership''' after Sergey Leaving
* John: Decide when to switch 4.2 builds from re-using 3.x binary bundles vs full 4.x builds
+
** Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
** Today, the 4.x testsuite just tests 4.x specific stuff; things like JDT tests just run against 3.8 today
+
** Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
** Today, cannot generate Javadocs in 4.x today sine it needs the full source
+
** Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
** Today, nightlies are running 3.x only (could change to running 4.x nightlies only)
+
** Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
** Today, 3.x builds run at IBM and 4.x builds run at Eclipse.org
+
** Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept
** Only few test failures left in the 4.x builds --&gt; ready to switch
+
** AI: '''Kim''' to send 4.x test results to the mailing list, consider switching right after M5
+
** '''Performance Tests:''' Not yet run on 4.x yet - should be able to run on Denis' vserver
+
*** IBM is going to lose the physical machines for performance tests in 2 weeks ! (Going to migrate to vserver too!)
+
*** Need a new baseline
+
** Andrew: at '''FOSSLC''' in Brussels this week, going to represent Eclipse with Mike Milinkovich, Gunnar Wagenknecht and others
+
* '''Gerrit''': Platform won't jump in as an early adopter this time, wait for other projects first
+
** Not all Platform Unittests can run on Hudson today (need at least some fingerprint tests to get value from Gerrit)
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 25, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew, Dani
+
'''Feb 28, 2017''' - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ
* McQ: '''Note about 4.2 on Release Train'''
+
* Alex: '''Short update on Neon.3'''
* Andrew: '''Eclipse 4.2 for Fedora''' - Feature note written for Eclipse Juno led to some discussion at Eng.Steering Committee, but finally approved
+
** 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
* Dani: Team down by 1 but no impact (Dani is going to take over responsibilities)
+
** PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
* John: '''Build Failures in UA, Update, PDE, p2 yesterday''' after the move to Java 7... nobody watching these, need to find caretakers
+
* Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
** UA tests often fail due to a link validity checker, these can be caused by anyone
+
* Martin: '''RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing'''
** Certificate Validity issue (Jar signing)
+
** Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
 +
** Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
 +
** Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
 +
** '''AI Martin''' will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like {{bug|505826}} resolved ideally
 +
* McQ will be out next 2 weeks
  
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''Feb 21, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey
 +
* Lars: {{Bug|512273}} Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and {{Bug|512319}} allow rebase
 +
** '''Agreement''' to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
 +
** Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
 +
** '''AI Lars''' follow up on the bug
 +
* Martin: '''UI Testing'''
 +
** [http://eclipse.org/rcptt RCPTT] is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
 +
** Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
 +
** When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
 +
** Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
 +
** Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
 +
*** Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
 +
** '''AI Martin''' follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
 +
** '''AI Alex''' share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
 +
** '''AI Lars''' play with the Reddeer API
 +
* Dani: '''Update on PPC''' drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs {{bug|512224}}
 +
** Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm '''AI Alex and Dani''' ask Denis
 +
* Dani: '''Neon.3 RC3''' please keep an eye on builds
 +
* Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 18, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew, Dani
+
'''Feb 15, 2017'''
* McQ: '''4.2 quality''' and next steps
+
** More resources found to enable 4.2 as the LTS base - encouraging, although some items still missing
+
** Fedora 17 think about shipping 4.2m6 (work ongoing) - that would be a large stack on top of 4.2
+
** John: '''Oracle Java 7 as Reference Platform''' now that the most severe issues are fixed (Java 6 EOL is June 2012 !) - that is Oracle, not OpenJDK
+
*** Not remove Java 6 for now
+
*** Fedora also does all tests on 7
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 11, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''Feb 8, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
* McQ: '''State of Presentation API's'''
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|509412}}''' - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
** Different API's in 4.2 and 3.x -- will need to deprecate API in 3.x
+
** Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
** Christian suggested deleting API that's not implemented in 4.x to get compile errors ... John thinks that binary compatibility is more important
+
** Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
*** Plugins will be "mostly OK", presentation API is cosmetic anyways
+
** Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
** McQ: get in touch with clients who use presentation API, telling them what's best to do ... often newer 4.x infrastructure is much better than trying to keep 3.x around forever
+
** Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
* Andrew: '''Cairo and GTK3'''
+
* Dani: '''Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform'''
* John: '''4.2 compiling now'''
+
** Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
* Martin: '''Updated JSch-0.1.44 version''' - how to announce properly
+
** Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
** AI Martin Announce on eclipse-dev and cross-project
+
* Dani: '''Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server'''
** Should also put into migrtion notes and README
+
** Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
 +
* Dani: '''Scenarios for UI Testing'''
 +
** Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
 +
* Dani: '''Sign Up for Security Rep'''
 +
** See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/tools-pmc/msg03927.html Wayne's message to PMCs] requesting PMC attendance
 +
** John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
 +
** Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
 +
** '''RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up''' since already following security issues
 +
* Dani+Alex: '''libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC'''
 +
** Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
 +
** Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
 +
** Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
 +
** Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
 +
** Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
 +
** If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
 +
** '''AI Dani+McQ''' find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
 +
* Alex: '''Update on Reddeer Testing Framework'''
 +
** A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
 +
** Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
 +
** Martin has been looking at [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT] which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
 +
** (call had to be closed at this point)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 4, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
<strike>Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled</strike>
* McQ: Pascal's note about p2 leadership .. not sure who could step in and make a commitment (may see the same fate as UA)
+
<hr/>
** Tom Watson looking for candidates, but looks like none in McQ's team
+
 
 +
'''Jan 24, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''New Jetty Version''' - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
 +
* Dani: '''javax.xml''' - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
 +
** Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
 +
* Alex: '''[http://jboss-reddeer.github.io/reddeer/ Reddeer Testing Framework]'''
 +
** JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
 +
** Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
 +
*** Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
 +
*** API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
 +
** Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
 +
*** Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
 +
*** No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
 +
** Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT], it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
 +
** Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
 +
*** Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
 +
** Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
 +
** Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --&gt; Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
 +
*** Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
 +
*** '''AI Alex''' to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' to try installing Jubula until next week
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.
 +
 
 +
<hr>
 +
'''Jan 17, 2017''' - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ
 +
* Sergey: '''Merging platform.resources with platform.ui'''
 +
** Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
 +
*** Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
 +
** Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
 +
** Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
 +
** Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
 +
*** McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
 +
** Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
 +
** Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even {{bug|509412}} was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
 +
** Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
 +
** McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
 +
* Lars: '''Removing javax.xml'''
 +
** Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
 +
** Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
 +
** Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
 +
** McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
 +
** Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
 +
**'''AI Lars''' send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
 +
* Dani: '''Project Updates'''
 +
** Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
 +
* McQ: '''UI Testing and Jubula'''
 +
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''Jan 10, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck
 +
* Dani: '''Platform Bits on Maven Central''' - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
 +
* Dani: '''Board Committer Rep Elections''' opening
 +
* Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
 +
* Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
 +
* Lars: '''Equinox move to Platform''' - no updates - '''AI Dani''' talk to Tom again
 +
* McQ / AlexS: '''Jubula'''
 +
** In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
 +
** Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
 +
** Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
 +
** AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
 +
*** For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
 +
*** Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
 +
*** UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
 +
*** Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
 +
*** Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
 +
*** Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure ('''AI AlexS to check''')
 +
*** Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
 +
**** Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' send slides
 +
*** '''AI Dani + Lars''' propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Latest revision as of 11:15, 8 August 2017

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

August 8, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani

  • Eclipse Asterisk system is not working reliably (again). It took Dani 6 minutes until he could dial in (using the Swiss number - US number failed repeatedly). McQ can't dial in until 10 min later.
  • Dani: starting the planning record for Photon to announce participation in M1
    • Toplevel items: JUnit5, Java9. Subplans on the Wiki.
  • Dani: subproject merge - wanted to wait for M1, but should be done this week
  • Alex: ppc64be - Sravan is waiting on final decision whether it will be removed in Photon
    • Dani: PMC decision was settled, so removed from Eclipse plan - IBM might still continue building it for internal use

August 1, 2017 - no call

July 25, 2017 - Alex, Lars, Dani

  • project merge got go, Dani to implement it with webmaster and then send out the announcement this or next week. E-mail will also mention that existing project leads can become co-leads on Eclipse Platform
  • Discussion if CVS should be removed from the SDK build, Alex +1, Lars +1, Dani +1
  • Discussion if the remaining 2.0 compatibility layer can be removed, Dani: OK to remove but other plug-ins might still have dependencies to it, must the also updated, as well as the documentation

July 18, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • project merge review awaiting go from Wayne - Dani pinged again in the bug report
  • Dani will kick off planning for Photon a bit earlier since he will be in Bangalore the next 12 days. Platform UI already started.
  • M1 on August 11

July 11, 2017 - no meeting

July 4, 2017 - no meeting


June 27, 2017 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Equinox Merge to the Eclipse TLP
    • Keep Equinox as a separate Project, to allow independent Equinox releases without Platform (and keep Bugzilla simple)
    • The only argument for stronger integration would be getting more committers, but there is no strong need and we have the FastTrack process in place for that
  • Eclipse Merge of Component (Sub)Projects into Platform
    • Just 4 Projects: Platform, Equinox, JDT, PDE (plus the incubators for e4 and JDT)
    • Former (Sub)Project Leads to become "Component Leads", "Technology Owners" or "Repository Owners"
      • Repository Ownership is appealing as the structure is very clear (+1 Dani,Alex,McQ)
    • Platform Lead initially Dani, more Co-Leads could step up if they want
      • Main work is helping component leads if they can't come to a consensus - usually less work than PMC duties
  • Dani: JSR 376 Ballot
    • Public review reconsideration ballot got approved by all except Red Hat who abstained
    • Much progress in the past weeks, consensus except RH abstained
    • Looks like the OOBE of Java9 would tolerate reflection, currently looks like on track for a September Release
  • Vacations many people will be off next week, especially in the U.S.
    • PMC call will be skipped next week

June 20, 2017 - MQ, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Attracting new contributors discussions - code cleanup and deletion of old paths needed
    • Alex: Big issue to get people working on codebase and considering many now irrelevant paths in the codebase
    • Dani: Cleanups should be done by the one starting them through the whole SDK
    • Lars: Not feasible as some projects are slower pace moving and the change might require more effort than one can or is willing to spend in his free time
    • Alex: Great opportunity to have new people joining by doing simple tasks and grow them into full committers
    • McQ: We have to come up with list of items we would like to get cleaned and properly follow our deprecation policy even if the migration guide for Photon get really big with things we schedule for removal in the future.
  • Dani: Sub-projects merge
    • Name of the new project - McQ: Everyone refers to it as Platform so natural choice it is
    • JDT, PDE, Platform (subprojects) to become single project
    • Person responsible for some code area in the merged project - to be further dicussed
  • Dani: Dropping Xulrunner support - PMC to approve it in the bug

Juni 13, 2017 - MQ, Dani, Lars

  • Dani: Release review for 4.7 was successful
  • Dani: Rebuild for 4.7RCa required due to new EMF version and a fix for a critical bug which resulted in duplicated menu entries
  • Merge of the sub-projects
    • Planned for M1, desired to be coordinated with the move of Equinox to Platform
    • We prefer to keep the project pages and wikis so that all the information is kept
    • Preferable we want to have one committer list for Eclipse platform
    • Dani to check with foundation how the merge can be done

May 30, 2017 - Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Dani: Please approve or disapprove the release review
  • Dani: Starting the Debugger doesn't work always
    • Occurs for Lars, but isn't reproducible - one of the top 3 things to fix if steps to reproduce are found
    • Lars: Equinox replaced the DS implementation in 4.7, the issue is probably related
    • Failure is totally random: On a very slow Virtual Machine, it failed almost always (9 failures out of 10); on other machine it works most of the time; even after working fine 3 times, it may fail the 4th time; seems to occur more frequently on older machines than newer ones.
    • Martin: try with a reverse debugger like Chronon ?
      • Should help by just collecting a log; and when the failure occurs, "play back" the log to understand under what condition the race condition occurs; the a reproducible case is available, and the log can also be sent around between different developers for investigation, potentiall also to Apache Felix upstream
  • Dani: Equinox Launcher Issues
    • During M7, a change was made to ignore certain command-line arguments
    • This caused 2 regressions - bug 517013 and bug 516349 MacOSX restart regression
    • Java 9 will probably change the parameters again, see bug 516911 :(
    • It's getting too late to make any more changes to the Launcher. Re-compiling on different hardware has already caused bug 517013, it's possible that more issues (not yet known) might be caused by the rebuild. With Java 9 probably changing again, we don't win much by rebuilding to try and align with something that's not yet released.
      • Option A: Put options into the eclipse.ini -- today it works for both Java 8 and Java 9
      • Option B: Add the "probably proposed" new option to the launcher, will need to rebuild the launcher again
      • Option C: Revert the launcher to what it was before (and well tested) back to M6 - for running with Java 9, the options have to be added manually
    • Users will have to read on a webpage what needs to be done for Java 9 launching; for Eclipse SDK, a single option is needed - some add-on components
      • Additional complexity: Different JVMs need different options (IBM, Oracle...)
      • Martin: bug 517452 Introduce a fallback mechanism to the launcher, which reads the Java ID and loads 'eclipse-javaID.ini' with a fallback to 'eclipse.ini', but does not seem reasonable for Oxygen since too late
      • Better to have a clean story: At IBM, the entire build environment changed ... reverting gets us back to a bullet-proof launcher that was tested for 7 milestones ... will work safely with Java 8, for Java 9 people will have to read the N&N or StackOverflow to find out about the right arguments - same as in Neon
  • AGREEMENT to revert the Launcher to the M6 version

May 23, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: Apache Batik XXE Vulnerability
    • Alex: Moving to Batik 1.9 would be good, but there is so much UI breakage that it's not viable for Oxygen
  • Martin: Bugs discovered during RC test cycle
    • Surprised that some low-priority issues do get attention (bug 517108) while others get no response at all (bug 517013
    • Dani: Only interested in severe issues and regressions - send message to platform-releng-dev with severe regressions found
    • Dani: Please +1 the Gerrit for bug 517108

May 16, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
    • Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
  • bug 509922 Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
    • Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
    • Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
  • Test failures: Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
    • Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
    • CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
    • UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
  • bug 516114 Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
    • Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
    • The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
    • That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
    • Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
      • The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
    • AGREEMENT: In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
      • Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
      • McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
  • Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
  • Alex: Project Structure
    • Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
    • Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
    • In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
    • Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
    • McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
    • Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
    • AGREEMENT to move forward on this, with a Platform Leadership group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.

May 9, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: JSR376 Jigsaw: 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
    • From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
    • JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
    • For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
    • JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
  • Dani: M7/RC0 - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
    • When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
      1. Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
      2. Section forms layout
  • Dani: httpcore 4.4.1 -> 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility
    • Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
    • People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
    • Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
    • Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
    • Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
    • AGREEMENT to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
  • Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
  • Dani: Release Review, does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
    • All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
    • McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
    • Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
    • Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
    • AGREEMENT to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.

May 2, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Lars: Regex Evaluator Plugin
    • Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
    • Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
    • McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
    • AGREEMENT to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
  • Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
  • Dani: JSR Jigsaw Ballot
    • Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard

Apr 25, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Neon.3a
    • Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
      • AI Alex tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
      • Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem

Apr 18, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Dani: RH and Java9 Jigsaw
    • Very good write-up linked from the AC Mailinglist - see also follow-up
    • Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
  • Dani: Neon.3 Respin
    • Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
  • Lars: Glance Migration to e4 and/or Platform
    • e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
  • Lars
    • JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache

Apr 11, 2017 - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
  • Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.

Apr 04, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Martin: bug 514257 and cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue
    • Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
    • Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
    • Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
      • Commons Logging is not a Singleton
    • Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
  • Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
  • Dani: PPC - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week

Mar 28, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Replacement for Sergey
    • let's wait and see how things go
    • next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
  • Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
    • all agree
    • McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
  • Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
  • Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)

Mar 21, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Dirk Fauth Requests on eclipse-pmc
    • Alex agrees with Dani
    • Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
    • Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
  • Dani: Szymon Ptasiewicz

Mar 14, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Java 9 readiness - see cross-project-issues-dev
    • Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
      • Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
    • Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the Java 9 Readiness wiki can show violations
      • Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
      • Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
    • Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
    • All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
      • This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
    • Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
  • Dani: JUnit 5 considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
    • Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
  • Dani: 2 Platform Issues in M6
    • platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
    • major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
      • In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
      • In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
  • Alex: Generic Editor and Testing
    • Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
    • Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
    • Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
    • In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"

Mar 7, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars

  • Dani: 4.6.3 Updates - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
  • Dani: 4.7M7 Update - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
  • Dani: Java 9 / Planning Council Update - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
  • Lars: Platform.Resources Leadership after Sergey Leaving
    • Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
    • Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
    • Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
    • Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
    • Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept

Feb 28, 2017 - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Alex: Short update on Neon.3
    • 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
    • PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
  • Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
  • Martin: RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing
    • Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
    • Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
    • Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
    • AI Martin will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like bug 505826 resolved ideally
  • McQ will be out next 2 weeks

Feb 21, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey

  • Lars: bug 512273 Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and bug 512319 allow rebase
    • Agreement to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
    • Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
    • AI Lars follow up on the bug
  • Martin: UI Testing
    • RCPTT is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
    • Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
    • When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
    • Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
    • Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
      • Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
    • AI Martin follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
    • AI Alex share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
    • AI Lars play with the Reddeer API
  • Dani: Update on PPC drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs bug 512224
    • Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm AI Alex and Dani ask Denis
  • Dani: Neon.3 RC3 please keep an eye on builds
  • Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week

Feb 15, 2017


Feb 8, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: bug 509412 - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
    • Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
    • Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
    • Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
    • Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
  • Dani: Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform
    • Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
    • Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
  • Dani: Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server
    • Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
  • Dani: Scenarios for UI Testing
    • Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
  • Dani: Sign Up for Security Rep
    • See Wayne's message to PMCs requesting PMC attendance
    • John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
    • Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
    • RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up since already following security issues
  • Dani+Alex: libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC
    • Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
    • Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
    • Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
    • Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
    • Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
    • If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
    • AI Dani+McQ find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
  • Alex: Update on Reddeer Testing Framework
    • A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
    • Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
    • Martin has been looking at RCPTT which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
    • (call had to be closed at this point)

Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled


Jan 24, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: New Jetty Version - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
  • Dani: javax.xml - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
    • Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
  • Alex: Reddeer Testing Framework
    • JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
    • Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
      • Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
      • API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
    • Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
      • Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
      • No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
    • Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about RCPTT, it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
    • Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
      • Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
    • Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
    • Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --> Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
      • Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
      • AI Alex to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
      • AI Martin to try installing Jubula until next week
      • AI Martin ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.

Jan 17, 2017 - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ

  • Sergey: Merging platform.resources with platform.ui
    • Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
      • Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
    • Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
    • Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
    • Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
      • McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
    • Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
    • Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even bug 509412 was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
    • Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
    • McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
  • Lars: Removing javax.xml
    • Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
    • Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
    • Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
    • McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
    • Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
    • AI Lars send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
  • Dani: Project Updates
    • Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
  • McQ: UI Testing and Jubula

Jan 10, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck

  • Dani: Platform Bits on Maven Central - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
  • Dani: Board Committer Rep Elections opening
  • Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
  • Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
  • Lars: Equinox move to Platform - no updates - AI Dani talk to Tom again
  • McQ / AlexS: Jubula
    • In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
    • Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
    • Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
    • AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
      • For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
      • Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
      • UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
      • Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
      • Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
      • Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure (AI AlexS to check)
      • Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
        • Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
      • AI AlexS send slides
      • AI Dani + Lars propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
      • AI AlexS check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started

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