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= Documents =
 +
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 +
 +
* [[E4/Graduation_4.0]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Unix Groups]]
 +
 
= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
'''Jun 30, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, John
 
* No negative response yet about switching to Java 6 reference platforms
 
** Components free to move up but not a free-for-all. Justify reasons for moving up on eclipse-pmc mailing list.
 
** In many cases there is little added benefit of Java 6 so Java 5 is more likely as a bundle execution environment
 
* 4.0 release and bundle/package naming
 
** Agreed that we will not migrate bundle/package namespaces at this time
 
** e4 API is not ready so the separation is helpful to divide it from the mature API
 
** It is not simply a package name issue, there are also class names containing "e4". Need to work through the process of merging the new API with the old, but this will take time
 
  
'''Jun 23, 2010:''' - Jeff, John
 
* No topics
 
  
'''Jun 16, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Jeff
+
'''Mar 31, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex
* McQ - '''Java 4 going away''' (was EOL since October 2008, Java 5 EOL since October 2009)
+
 
** Dani: Don't bump up any BREBump up to 1.5 only if needed
+
* PMC call time
** Jeff: If moving off 1.4, why not move up to 1.6 ?
+
** Overlaps with Planning council call and both Tom and Alex can't make both
*** Reality is that we want the tiny Foundatation-1.1 or the big wad, and 1.5 is no better than 1.6
+
-> Decision: Skip PMC call every first Wed of the month
*** Equinox may start using Generics and down-compile to 1.4 ... think about what's in ercp
+
 
** Start a cross-project discussion... question is whether everyone who depends on Platform has 1.6 VM Support
+
* Webpage Hugo migration
** Martin has no problem with 1.6, suggest asking on cross-project / some of the bigger players (e.g. Jetty, Modeling, ...)
+
** Recommended by Eclipse Foundation and active contributor to do the conversion
*** McQ to ask Boris bring up with the Board
+
** Concerns about mixing old and new content are raised but they don't look severe
* Martin, Jeff, Dani vacation next 2 weeks (likely not on the call).
+
** Supported by PMC
 +
-> Tom to handle initial communication on behalf of PMC
 +
 
 +
* Planning process relevance
 +
** the planning process is not providing the detailed and usable plans from the past
 +
** not a pain point as fewer people participate it but looks like useless exercise quite often
 +
** to be discussed....
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Mar 24, 2021''' - Tom, Alex, Lars
 +
 
 +
* Pack 200 - API removal in 2 years - 2023-06
 +
** Should we turn off all pack 200 features in one year, make it consistent across all Java versions.
 +
** 2022-06 - disable pack200 for all Java versions. Calling the deprecated API will be a no-op
 +
 
 +
* Pack 200 - When can we stop generating? Agreed on 2021-09 release.  We should set the precedence as early as possible to stop producing pack200 artifacts.
 +
 
 +
* split packages
 +
** Causing issues with mandatory directive and p2 {{bug|360659}} and with tycho.
 +
** Currently tycho requires some work arounds for usage of split packages
 +
** Can we work to get rid of split packages. We agreed to investigate the work and move to combine split packages if possible.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Mar 17, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars
 +
* SWT Chromium support
 +
** Still no recent version of Chromium with security patches
 +
** Will be dropped in M1 (if no recent version is provided in the next weeks or if no one steps up)
 +
 
 +
* Pack 2000 support
 +
** not supported anymore as of Java 14
 +
** will be deprecated and marked for removal
 +
 
 +
* Moving Eclipse repos to Github
 +
** Moving to Github might simplify and therefore increase contributions
 +
** Huge amount of work in releng
 +
** Potentially we should all subprojects at the same time
 +
** We check if the foundation plans to move everything to Gitlab
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Mar 10, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex
 +
* Moving to Jetty 10 for next release
 +
* platform-dev discussion about move to GitHub
 +
** conversation is useful, but would take a lot of planning
 +
** lots of current rel eng dependencies on Gerrit
 +
*** need more community help for rel eng issues
 +
** a massive amount of history in our Bugzilla
 +
* release record and proto-plan created for 4.20
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Febr 17, 2021''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* Looks good for 4.19 release
 +
* Mac ARM has to wait for the 4.20 release, as the team fights multiple issues
 +
* Top-level project page can currently only be edited by Tom, other PMC members also have access to it https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/eclipse/who
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Dec 15, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* 06. January 2021 is the next meeting
 +
* How can PMC increase the awareness of the project leads / committers?
 +
** Maybe invite the project leads once per month to the PMC meeting?
 +
** Discussion how we can increase the JDT community
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Dec 01, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* RC1 is out; final touches on RC2
 +
* How can we remove the confusion about "e4" project?
 +
** e4 has always been intended to be a sandbox project where people could try things that are experimental or are on a longer timeline
 +
** Should be renamed to make it clear this isn't about leftovers from the Eclipse 4.0 work (maybe "eNext"?)
 +
** Should clean up repos
 +
*** Remove repos that just hold code that has already moved to the platform
 +
*** Remove repos that are no longer getting any investment
 +
*** Work toward moving things that are active/useful into the platform (e.g. "spies" to PDE)
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 24, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* PMC is considering the potential of an SDK / IDE working group at the foundation
 +
 
 +
* Discussion Do we need the extra releng work to create p2 repositories for milestones?
 +
** Lot of extra work and sometimes goes wrong
 +
** All I-Builds are anyway available
 +
 
 +
-> PMC decided to drop the additional p2 repository
 +
-> Alex will be sending out an email about it to inform potential users of the special p2 repos
 +
 
 +
** Discussion about the purpose of the milestone week at all
 +
-> Decision not to change the process for now, as the additional testing and focus has also some benefits
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 17, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Release 4.18 winding down
 +
** SWT churn for Linux and Mac Big Sur
 +
** Does not appear the Foundation got the new Mac Hardware for testing
 +
* Planning Council discussion
 +
** Dani filled the Eclipse TLP representation role on the Council
 +
** Alex can take the lead to that role
 +
** Alex will look to find a replacement for the tools TLP representative
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 10, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Still dealing with the loss of Dani
 +
* Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
 +
* Stabilizing for M3
 +
* Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
 +
* Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 10, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Still dealing with the loss of Dani
 +
* Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
 +
* Stabilizing for M3
 +
* Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
 +
* Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 3, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Dani!
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Oct 27, 2020''' - Lars, Tom
 +
* Nothing to discuss
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Oct 20, 2020''' - Lars, Tom, McQ, Alex
 +
* EclipseCon is running virtual this week
 +
* Agreement that removal of API should only before M1 release
 +
* Proof of concept for using Java 11 http client instead of ECF should be done
 +
* if we remove ECF we should send out an announcement and keep it for at least one release
 +
* Decision to start using the @Deprecated(since = "x.y.z", forRemoval = true) for planned API removals if the bundle can use Java 11, wiki for API removal should be updated
 +
 
 +
'''Oct 6, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, McQ, Alex
 +
* M1 under control
 +
* Release train materials being worked
 +
* Moved to Jetty 9.4.32
 +
* ECF — need to simplify how we consume http client
 +
** could use Java11 http client instead, but this would require significant development effort
 +
** Tom/Alex to take an initial stab at understanding scope + open bugs
 +
* Proposal: remove API once a year
 +
** Given the already long time for consumers to respond to API deprecation, PMC decision was to continue to allow API removal in any release. It was felt that the incremental benefit was outweighed by the need to be able to move forward quickly.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Sep 15, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, Lars, Alex
 +
* M1
 +
** Next week M1 - Alex to send reminder note
 +
** Holiday in India on this Friday
 +
 
 +
* Y-Build for Java 16
 +
** Builds should be fixed and can continue to progress on Java 16
 +
 
 +
* SCR upgrade
 +
** Some issues with EBR maven plugin
 +
** causes versions to be incorrectly represented in p2 meta-data
 +
** Orbit needs a new lead, will end up impacting us if no replacement found
 +
 
 +
* Tycho being updated to be able to OSGi-fy JARs if they are not there yet.
 +
** How to use this for a feature?
 +
** Behaves much like Orbit to produce new versions of the artifact.
 +
** Could be the solution for Orbit needs.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Sep 22, 2020''' - no meeting
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Sep 15, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Lars, Tom, Alex
 +
* Dani: Java 15 released today
 +
** 4.17 release together with Marketplace for Java 15 support are ready
 +
** JDT Java 15 to be merged this week
 +
* Dani: Zoom call with password unless each of the PMC members can be added as meeting owner so can start the meeting
 +
* Alex: 4.18 stream opened and releng work calmed down
 +
* Lars: Cleanup of migration guides
 +
** Dani: this will break existing links, so existing content have to stay unless someone does all the work to fix our plans and other links that will break
 +
** McQ: help system needs work to focus on the latest stuff/release, what should we do to achieve it? How can we better shape the help system now that having all content ofline is not a requirement?
 +
** Alex: do not ship migration, n&n,etc. but rather point to website url from help system
 +
** Alex: this would also reduce manual work for releng (+1 by Dani)
 +
** ACTION ITEM: Alex to work on n&n in help system to use the website content directly as a proof of concept for further work
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Sep 01, 2020''' - Lars, Alex
 +
* RC1 is fine, no additional requests for RC2
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''August 25, 2020''' - Tom, Lars, Alex, Dani
 +
* Dani: sent out Endgame plan, RC1 this week, vacation starting on Friday
 +
* Alex informed about Red Hat's Releng participation
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''August 18, 2020''' - Tom, Lars, Dani
 +
* Dani to create and send out Endgame plan
 +
* Looking into Mac Big Sur launching issue ({{bug|565913}})
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''August 11, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, Tom, McQ
 +
* Eclipse Foundation is getting access to an Apple Silicon dev kit
 +
** Will make it available to SWT devs via cloud connectivity
 +
* M3 next week; RC1 following week
 +
* ARM64 port seems to be working fine, except for browser widget (still investigating)
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''August 4, 2020''' - Alex, Lars, Dani
 +
* no topics to discuss
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''July 28, 2020''' - Tom, McQ
 +
* no topics to discuss
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''July 21, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars
 +
* no topics to discuss
 +
* Alex on vacation next week
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''July 14, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars
 +
* Project status
 +
** M1 shipped last week
 +
** Draft Plan for 4.17 posted - additional fixes done after review
 +
** Release record created for 4.17
 +
* CQ process discussion - new clearly defined process
 +
** Note sent to Wayne to get clarifications on handbook, Wayne has made some edits in response.  We need to review latest handbook
 +
** Should simplify IP clearance for third party libraries
 +
*** If a bundle is approved by clearly defined it can be added with no CQ as long as the mavin URLs/coordinates are vetted by clearly defined
 +
*** Orbit should soon automate the linking to clearly defined approvals for bundles added.  Currently a work in progress by Roland at Orbit.
 +
*** The ratings system at clearly defined is not used.  Only the license check is used.
 +
** PMC needs to review latest handbook on the topic ... As of now we should move forward with the new process
 +
*** If concerns arise later we will need to take actions to correct
 +
* {{bug|565066}} - Needs some attention to the solution and testing
 +
** attempt to make incremental installation be consistent with resolution of a fresh install (or -clean).
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''June 23, 2020''' - no call
 +
 
 +
'''June 16, 2020''' - no call
 +
 
 +
'''June 9, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom
 +
* McQ: message to guide the community got no public reactions so far
 +
* Dani: bug reports needed for JDT, do we have PMC agreement?
 +
** Alex: For me that was approved after jdt-dev vote ended
 +
** AGREED
 +
* Dani: RC2 done, no major bug so far but still monitoriing for regressions
 +
* Alex: 4.17 stream open, not finished until 4.16 if final so all apichecks and etc. are in proper shape
 +
* Tom: OSGi R8 merge after stabilizing 4.17 stream
 +
* Tom: OSGi Move to Java 8 right after that
 +
* Dani: Switch to Java 11 as min version as it was already announced to happen in 4.17 stream shortly
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''June 2, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom
 +
* Inactive committer clean up for Eclipse project for the 4.16 release started via {{bug|563720}}
 +
* Infrastructure is really slow for RC2 release
 +
* RC2 bug queue is really low, one restart issue which is currently under investigated by Tom
 +
* Discussion about the JDT cleanup e-mails
 +
** Need to ensure community discussions are positive and respectful.
 +
** Expectations here should come from leadership
 +
*** LibreOffice did this in the past to great success.
 +
** Committers can vote against bugs but the tone of the discussion is important.
 +
** PMC will respond via the public mailing list within a week
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''May 26, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ
 +
* Closed all M3 bugs; RC1 looking good
 +
* Tips&tricks, new&noteworthy, contributions to the newsletter in progress
 +
* Chromium integration CQ approved -- https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21808
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''May 19, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex
 +
* Dani: Issues with the build infrastructure, might endanger M3, the team got a working build for testing
 +
* Dani: PowerPC hardware was donated so builds are starting again for it
 +
* Alex: CQ process might get simpler based on blog post from Wayne, Alex to test and validate with Wayne https://blogs.eclipse.org/post/wayne-beaton/revising-eclipse-ip-due-diligence-process-third-party-content
 +
* Lars: Question if we want to allow "EGit" commit style in Eclipse top-level project. Agreement was to allow it but not to recommend it or enforce it
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''May 12, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex
 +
* Update to themes
 +
** Preference being added for choosing square vs round tabs
 +
** Intern from Alex's team is taking up the work
 +
** Update to Windows theme to be Windows 10
 +
* Alex brings up changes to CQ requirements. Need to read up on Wayne's post about this and discuss in a future call if we can change how the project does CQs
 +
* Who is running dark theme?
 +
** Need someone to cover test of Dark Theme on Linux. Lars indicated that he runs with Linux Dark Theme and can help in coverage
 +
** Dani described the various members of his team that cover the rest of the platforms
 +
* Request to contribute to article on what is new in the release for a June newsletter. Lars to contribute improvements in the Dark theme.  General request to others to contribute anything else.
 +
* ppc64le build troubles
 +
** Been having ongoing issues with the university hosted ppc64le machine we use to build support for ppc64le
 +
** Currently the ppc64le build has been disabled
 +
** Need to find alternatives
 +
*** May be able to use something from IBM public cloud
 +
*** Other suggestions: McQ - look towards using emulation, Alex - could do cross-compilation
 +
** Need to plan if ppc 10 will supported in the future
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''May 5, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, Lars, McQ, Tom
 +
 
 +
* M2 shipped on time
 +
** Dark theme rebuild for M2 due to severe issue
 +
* ICU4J removal note sent
 +
** Lars - 2 years notice period needed?
 +
** Agreement: it's needed as we expose it in API and still have usages in internals so we need time to clean up ourself
 +
** EPPs cleanup - some blocked by JDT still using it, some by WTP, Rust probably the first one to be icu4j clean
 +
* Roundes vs square ctabfolder
 +
** Number of themes to be reduced
 +
** Performance not being measurable
 +
** Agreement: add preference to switch the rounded vs
 +
** Agreement: when preference is available Square is default
 +
* Windows theme update -
 +
** Fix colors to match Windows 10
 +
** GTK looks way more sane as more effort has been invested to keep it current
 +
** Don't set colors but use the colors from the OS theme is the recipe
 +
** Ugly white line on windows dark theme needs bugzilla open
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''April 28, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, Lars
 +
 
 +
* PMC decided that the OS specific themes should be removed, https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=562227
 +
* Windows light theme should become better https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=551462
 +
* Dani - This week is M2, no special freeze or testing but we will contribute our build from Friday to the simrel
 +
* Databinding analyis was done by Jens Lindstroem and it looks good for an API compliant solution
 +
* Alex will prepare the information for cross that we will drop ibm icu from the SDK build
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''April 21, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars
 +
* Q: How do we deal with ICU removal from data binding?
 +
** Need to follow standard API removal rules
 +
*** Deprecate old API and offer new API
 +
*** Remove deprecated API after 2 years
 +
** Can we put the old stuff in a fragment that could be removed?
 +
* Theming: rounded tabs versus square tabs ({{bug|562221}})
 +
** Should we offer it at all?
 +
** Alex: Don’t increase the number of themes or options
 +
** Lars: Square tabs are faster
 +
** If speed is significant, we should consider changing the default
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''April 14, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars
 +
* Dani
 +
** M1 shipped, no problems so far
 +
** Using ECJ from M1 to build the SDK has some issues, there are people working on it
 +
** 4.16 plan to be published this week
 +
* Unanimous decision to continue to use Zoom as usual
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''April 7, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars
 +
* Dani
 +
** Created [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_16.xml 4.16 plan]
 +
** Created [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=561643 release record for 4.16]. Corresponding bug is {{bug|561643}}
 +
** Sent note to add planning bugs for 4.16
 +
** '''Please review and provide feedback if any'''
 +
** After some infrastructure issues we have a good test build and currently things look good for M1 this week
 +
* Alex seconded the infrastructure issues and missing test results
 +
* ICU4J ({{bug|560312}}): we decided to remove it piece by piece from projects where possible and where someone is interested to do it. The ICU bundle itself will stay, and we will follow the API removal process when we are ready to remove it, i.e. no usage in the SDK anymore
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''March 31, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, McQ, Tom, Lars
 +
* Dani: Contacted the ICU4J owner. He updated {{bug|560312}}, PMC members will review the comment and we will discuss next week
 +
* Dani: Planning bugs are created slowly for 4.16. Will send a reminder to the list to submit more. Started to work on plan and release record.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''March 24, 2020''' - Alex, McQ, Tom
 +
* Dani: Regrets for the call (Eclipse Board call)
 +
* Alex: status updates
 +
** JDT merged Java 14 in master
 +
** Build instability due to infra status
 +
* Alex: OSGi R8 modules support - what is it?
 +
** Tom: ability to represent external content in the OSGi framework
 +
** Alex: Will it allow shipping eclipse plugins as JPMS modules to ease native library handling?
 +
** Tom: Haven't found any clear example how JPMS handles this, so good example is needed before could be looked further.
  
<hr/>
 
'''Jun 9, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, McQ, John
 
* Dani - '''Approval for Docs''' - flexibility around docs is good, but after RC4 is too late.
 
* Dani - '''Re-Opening HEAD''' - basically OK, to be discussed at the Arch call.
 
* McQ - '''Shutting down status messages''' for rest of the month except for really noteworthy things.
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 17, 2020''' - Alex, McQ, Lars Tom, Dani
'''Jun 2, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, McQ, John, McQ
+
* ICU4J use still under discussion
* Dani - '''ECF Issues''': Why does Eclipse have a process with Approvals while ECF does not. At the moment, there is a mutual dependency.
+
** Dani still to contact ICU4J owner
** Once we decided to consume them, we have no control over their rules.
+
* Shipping Java 14 and 4.15 this week
** Our only option is not consuming late changes from them (and thus burn the community and them).
+
* Java 14 work will be merged to master on Wednesday
** John - there are some cases where we could push back a bit more (without going to the limit of not consuming at all).
+
** Problems have been due to the build (and not due to quality issues in their code). But this doesn't change the fact that '''ANY''' late binding change is work and risk and should thus be pushed back if possible.
+
** McQ would like to be more flexible accepting changes .. are we becoming too stiff? ie. do what we can to mitigate risk, but live with taking risk .. that's part of the Eclipse Way.
+
* John - '''Builds after RC4'''
+
** Need PMC agreement. John going to discuss cross-project criteria.
+
** McQ doesn't want to tie our release to the winds of others (outside Eclipse) getting back to us or not. '''We should not be asking cross-project for approval.'''
+
** Each project is going to do what makes most sense to them (including us). In favor of having the conversation, but not asking for approval.
+
* John - '''When to start 3.7 and 3.6.1 builds''' - defer to next week.
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''May 26, 2010:''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Jeff, John
 
* Brief meeting. John just mentions that there's surprisingly many "Critical" bugs. Maybe just a triage problem. Will bring up in Arch call.
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 10, 2020''' - Lars, Tom
'''May 19, 2010:''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Jeff, John
+
* Dani: Regrets for the call (vacation)
* John - {{bug|27930}} '''Naming of Eclipse Classic'''
+
* ICU4J use still under discussion
** McQ - No other package on that page is the output of a single project, would want to see Eclipse SDK removed from packages page
+
** if we can be confident that performance and language support are of *similar* quality, we should work towards removing icu4j because it reduces complexity for us, in addition allowing for smaller RCP apps
** Jeff - "RCP/Plugin Developer" used to be direct replacements (SDK + Mylyn + XML Editor), but now also includes RAP (217MB)
+
** note that we already have mixed usage -- some components using icu4j and some not
** Dani - Some people go to downloads/ and then look for a milestone
+
* to clarify approvals that require a project lead can be done by a project lead for any of the Eclipse Project subprojects
** "Development Builds" tab provides access to milestones of packages; "Projects" tab provides access to direct project output.
+
** as usual, the project lead should take care to understand the change and its implications before approving
** '''Resolution:''' 650.000 people have downloaded classic (#2 download), even scrolling down - changing this is a waste.
+
* we will move to Jetty 10 (and thus to Java 11) for the fall release
* Dani - {{bug|313524}} '''Preference for new API Constant''' for the Formatter (also [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=59891#c45 bug 59891 comment 45] and onwards)
+
* RH will be leading releng for 4.16
** Some people don't like the new look (method wrapping) - currently no way to have the formatter behave the same in 3.5 and 3.6
+
** '''Resolution:''' pmc+ since little effort avoids lot of churn. Keeping the functionality without allowing to disable is a no-go.
+
* Martin - '''Feedback channel for removing API''' process (e.g. {{bug|311931}})
+
** '''Resolution:''' Add a suggestion to the [[Eclipse/API Central/API Removal Process]] page to start fresh for the feedback channel if there's a lot of discussion on the existing bug (by bugzilla clone)
+
* John - '''4.0 topics'''
+
** FYI: Ian created a draft of a [http://www.eclipse.org/helios/eclipse-sdk-4.0/ landing page]. Working on a [http://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse/Eclipse_SDK_4.0_FAQ release FAQ] page
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''May 12, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, John, Jeff, Dani
 
* Remaining work for Release - John: Checklist (Docs, collective N&N etc... IP Logs end May)
 
** [[Eclipse/Release checklist]], and [[Eclipse Doc Checklist]]. '''AI Dani''' has another one for Docs - will update for 3.6 and send offline
 
** [[Platform-releng-faq#Eclipse_Release_checklist]] also links to [[3.3 Release checklist]]
 
* IP Logs for subprojects - '''AI Jeff''' talk to Wayne to allow IP logs for container projects, also ask Boris (committer rep) - unsure if we have a committer rep on the IP Advisory committee, but we should have
 
* Eclipse SDK 4.0 Naming
 
** John - from Mailing List discussion, "Eclipse SDK 4.0 Early Adopter Release" seemed to be the favorite one
 
** Next year's release will be 4.1. Ian going to prepare a landing page to send the right message, working with Boris and John
 
* API Deletion - luceneSearchParticipant
 
** Deprecation should include a migration path (if it exists).
 
** Will document deletions in the migration guide (and probably also in the README)
 
** Martin: Add a Bugzilla Keyword for API Deletions, will make it very easy to create a query for all pending API deletions
 
** Jeff: Whatever we do, current deletions should be examplary.
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 3, 2020''' - no meeting
'''May 5, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, John, Dani
+
* Martin - {{bug|309059}} root cert validity? - Tom investigating, no new info
+
* Martin - How to mark issues for [[Polish3.6]] (UNC issues, Launcher vmargs {{bug|149994}}) - who sets the Bugzilla polish kwd?
+
** Martin to bring up again, and add to the Polish Wiki, and add the polish keyword on bz.
+
** Any Eclipse Platform committer is allowed to suggest items that bug him personally on the polish list (against any component).
+
* John - Helios Plan update
+
* John - API Removal
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''Apr 28, 2010:''' - Jeff, Martin, John, McQ, Dani
 
* Martin - '''[[Eclipse/UNC_Paths]]''' - testing for 3.6 ? Bugzilla: [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwords&short_desc=unc&classification=Eclipse&classification=RT&product=Equinox&product=Platform&product=JDT&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&product=PDE All open with UNC in the summary]
 
** Especially {{bug|289322}} and {{bug|262601}} are blocking for Martin, because these make it impossible to have Eclipse installed on an UNC path (common scenario in large organizations)
 
** Consensus: ''No concerted effort'', there are likely other more pressing issues; but ''investigate and prioritize what we find, and fix if possible''.
 
** <b><i>Running on UNC is considered a Polish item</i></b>.
 
* Jeff, McQ - '''Eclipse 4.0 Naming'''
 
** Suggestion: "Eclipse 4.0 Indigo Preview"
 
** McQ: Don't want to send a negative message - it ''is'' usable though add-on support may be missing
 
** John: This is a new release of the Platform, but not all of Eclipse Foundation technology... unsure how to phrase that into a release name
 
** Jeff: Based on this, putting Indigo into the name is a negative and may trigger false assumptions
 
** McQ: ''Eclipse SDK 4.0 Developer Release'' - sends the right message
 
** Jeff: '''Come up with 3 or 4 suggestions and bounce these around'''. Start a public discussion. Check with other OSS projects, e.g. Andrew Overholt
 
* McQ - '''1.5 BREE for Resources to support Unicode Characters'''
 
** Suggest everything on top of the base RCP move up to 1.5
 
** Jeff: "Move when you need to and not before" - when do we "need to"
 
* John - '''[[Eclipse/API Central/API Removal Process]]
 
** Just a compilation of things discussed before. '''Discuss on the Mailing List'''
 
* McQ - '''Pascal as the OBR spec lead'''
 
** From point of view of the Eclipse Project, can't imagine what value we'd get from participating in OBR spec. IBM might care.
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''February 25, 2020''' - Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex
'''Apr 21, 2010:''' - Jeff, Martin, John, Dani, McQ
+
* Dani: Created and sent Endgame plan
* John - extended '''2 day test pass''' for M7 on Mon and Tue
+
* Dani: Submitted IP Log: https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21716
* Jeff - '''Eclipse 4.0 naming'''
+
* Alex: SWT on Linux in 4.16 to require Gtk 3.20 to simplify CSS machinery and prep for GTK4
** McQ hopes that Eclipse 4.0 will be good enough for public consumption - whatever we call it, it needs to be what we call it
+
* Alex: ICU4J removal
** Jeff - the message should be that it's (a) new, (b) cool, (c) not quite done yet
+
** Dani: ICU4J reacts faster to changes and supports more features (new Japanese era)
** McQ - 4.0 won't be as performant as 3.x. Users will see the new cool presentation, but other than that it's like 3.6
+
** Alex: It might but Eclipse fails at keeping up so current version shipped with Eclipse misses features that the JVM supports (latest CLDR)
** Biggest problem will be people who don't follow the Community and just get 4.0 because they heard about it
+
** Dani: Asks for a proof that JVM is better that ICU
** Jeff - Comes down to setting expectations. Naming is one aspect of this, there's other aspects.
+
** Alex: Which metrics to be measured?
** John - Ian organized an e4-evangelist call.
+
** Dani: Will check with ICU guy about that and whether it's still needed
** McQ - Most people will just consume the release train (Helios) anyways, and will notice that 4.0 is "different".
+
* Martin - {{bug|306822}} '''IncrementalBuilder.getRule()''' API addition: Ask James whether CDT Helios can pick up the change
+
* Martin - '''James for committer''' - move to public policy of only considering committed contributions
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''Apr 14, 2010:''' - John, Dani, Martin, Jeff
 
* Martin - '''Startup Performance tests''': Cold start after reboot is 20% slower in 3.6m6 compared to 3.5.2 (while warm start is about the same)
 
** Manual test: Reboot a minimal WinXP system, then start into a fresh workspace with 1 JDT project (20 files) 1 open file in the editor.
 
** 28 sec in 3.5.2 but 36 sec in 3.6m6. Will file a bug tomorrow.
 
** John: There are 2 startup performance tests in the suite, but they are unreliable. In 3.6, changed the way tests are installed (director rather than dropins), thus baseline is not helpful.
 
** Jeff: Try have a look at {{Bug|308157}} Jarfile cache now limited to 100. Reason might just be cycling through more Jar's.
 
* John, Dani - '''Polish List'''
 
* John - '''e4 plan update'''. Waiting on McQ, wants an accurate list on what's graduating.
 
** Jeff - once something is in 4.0 you cannot remove in 4.x so better think twice before graduating.
 
** John - Eclipse SDK 4.0 has a minimal API exposed, most new stuff is under the covers so this is not so much of an issue.
 
** Jeff - More important to have Eclipse SDK 4.0 rock solid than have it feature complete. Do few things well rather than many things poorly.
 
** John - '''Self-hosting a day on Eclipse 4.0 without blocking issues!''' (But much to be polished, bugs, errors in the log etc).
 
* Jeff - '''Runtime SDK's vs "targets"''': The label SDK is ambiguous. Want to install tooling + target platform together, but cannot do that today.
 
** Today, we use "SDK" for (a) tools+source+docs, or (b) runtime+source+docs. None of both is really an SDK.
 
** Better call the target stuff just "targets".
 
** Developer docs as part of the tooling is wrong ... should be associated with targets instead.
 
** John: p2 does have the ability to install into multiple profiles (plan = multiple profiles)... might be (mis)used for this, is it a hack?
 
** Jeff: Much target provisioning was deferred off 3.6
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''February 18, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom
'''Apr 7, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff, John
+
* Dani: need to work on IP Log, Release Review and Endgame Plan
* Builds - short call
+
* Lars: ECF - will we update to the latest
 +
** Alex: is in the works. Scott needs to provide us with the update
 +
* Tom: Found an issue with JUnit 5 launching but not reproducible with latest I-build
 +
** Dani: File a bug if you have steps or contact Noopur directly
 +
* Dani: Update on X-builds and tags
  
<hr/>
 
'''Mar 31, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
 
* Martin - '''EclipseCon Report'''
 
** General industry trend pointing up (as perceived on the exhibition floor); e4 rover great success! other strong topics included build (b3, buckminster, maven / tycho / nexus, athena...)
 
** e4 message in general very well positioned and received; git / egit was another hot topic
 
** Modeling and RT projects in an up trend, other projects seem to go slightly down in terms of Community interest as well as commercial involvement
 
** API Tutorial very well received, Martin going to work on a "Wiki" version of checklists and guidance, will notify AC when done
 
* John - Eclipse 4.0: Timing for graduating e4 incubation material into the Eclipse proper
 
** We cannot ship an Eclipse SDK out of the e4 project
 
** Want a clear message what Eclipse 4.0 is... probably "includes incubating components" like some EPP packages
 
** '''AI John''' talk to Mike and Ian
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''February 11, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom
'''Mar 17, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
+
* Alex: Infrastructure is very instable, how can be complain to the foundation?
* McQ: '''git''' vs CVS: Should there be contributions by Platform on Egit?
+
** Alex: Eclipse foundation server team not responding to complains and seem unclear about the source of the issue
** Martin: Don't know how well egit proceeded recently, Boris might know more... important point is that the major workflows are perfect. Looks like the major workflows have been identified already.
+
** Discussion about makes a stronger statement to the foundation about the bad state of the infrastructure
* Martin: '''WebkitGTK / MiniBrowser''': In addition to the recent WebkitGTK discussion, perhaps work on a "Minibrowser" API that can live with published frozen Mozilla API only? Many apps may not need the full feature-richness of today's Browser.
+
** McQ: Suggestion to send a note as PMC to the foundation
** McQ unsure whether this is worthwile, since all industry trends go towards more web integration. '''AI Martin''' follow up with Grant
+
** Dani: First we should ask webmaster why this takes so long
* Dani: '''Performance and Polish''' passes
+
** Alex: Marketplace infrastructure is also in bad state
** All teams need to fix the issues that Frederic finds. M7 is the performance and polish pass. Prioritize items.
+
*** Dead marketplace entries are not getting removed https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=550713
* Dani: '''Freeze Plan'''
+
*** No clean contact person from the foundation
** Suggest a 2-day test pass (mon/tue) before the RC's, ie move 1 day from RC2 into M7
+
*** Marketplace is also not Open Source hence we cannot fix thing ourself.
  
<hr/>
+
-> Alex to contact Denis and to cc the other PMC members
'''Mar 10, 2010:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, John
+
* John: '''Provisional API guidelines''' (removing the requirement to have "internal" in the package name) - important for e4 which will have a lot of provisional API.
+
** See also {{bug|261874}} and Wiki [[Provisional API Guidelines Update Proposal]]
+
** "Old School" wanted to make provisional API deliberately painful. Migrating "provisional" to real without renaming will make breakage more subtle
+
** The game has changed: Adding x-internal, friends and API Tooling works much better than before, making it clear where API is provisional
+
** Martin: Much in favor of this, do we have any markup beyond x-internal for (a) making provisional API more explicitly visible or (b) work on a smaller granularity such as just a class?
+
*** McQ: granularity smaller than package makes it too easy to pollute API
+
*** Jeff: would like x-api-status:=provisional markup instead of x-internal:=true ... better do it right than half-baken. Could probably come to a fairly fast consensus on MANIFEST markup
+
** Resolution Lets agree now that x-internal is sufficient for provisional API, and discuss further approvements in parallel. '''AI John''' to search existing bugs about provisional API markup and initiate a discussion on the eclipse-pmc mailing list.
+
* Jeff: '''Target Provisioning and PDE:''' Target components in Galileo (which cannot be installed into the host) - came up with sort of a hack which still confuses users
+
** Want just a little bit help in PDE to make target provisioning just a little bit better .. a number of PDE bugs related to this, many been deferred .. there will be new bugs coming to capture what can be done in the short term
+
** Resolution: will mark up those new bugs where they request PMC involvement
+
* McQ: '''Build Quality:''' There is traditionally a drop in quality around this time of year (API Freeze and Eclipsecon), plus infrastructure problems. It's not really bad but we need to be careful now.
+
** John: Resist the urge to put in extra fixes. We are past the test pass. Quality over function, especially now.
+
  
<hr/>
+
'''February 4, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Tom
'''Mar 3, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
+
* OSGi Spec talk
* Martin: Remove org.eclipse.update.configurator and related bundles from SDK? As per {{bug|304505}} it makes Eclipse slow even when off.
+
** OSGi R8 Core will be done this year.
** Dani: Might be more than a packaging issue, somebody would have to invest
+
** May be ready for 4.16, but no rush if it slips to 4.17
** McQ: Should fix the Performance issue at any rate, regardless of other issues.
+
** Will not put anything in master until spec is final which makes it more likely to be 4.17
* John sick, Dani vacation next week.
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''Feb 24, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
 
* Dani: Remove Java 7 support as a plan item due to (a) legal reasons and (b) Java 7 not being finished when Eclipse 3.6 ships
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''January 28, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars
'''Feb 17, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, John
+
* Ongoing saga of the EPP packages
* Martin: {{bug|196337}} Pushing CDT Spawner into the Platform?
+
** Markus did it last week
** John, Dani: Platform could only accept it when there is use for it in the SDK. Otherwise it would just bloat the Platform
+
** PMC discussed possible futures here, but no conclusions
** Recommended best practice: Keep Spawner living in CDT, but put it into a separate bundle such that it can be used by others out of Helios or other p2 Repos
+
** Discussion also happening at the board level
** The [[Nexus Project]], which was once meant to collect such micro functionality to be shared between projects was never successful. Similar requests (e.g. faceted projects) are consumed as individual bundles through p2 today, no matter in which project they have their home where they are developed.
+
* M2 is this week
* Martin: {{bug|301563}} Fast project import from snapshot data - UI or not?
+
* Pushing for JUnit updates for M2
** John: Want some UI in the Platform in order to test it more easily, e.g. an export wizard
+
* John: Webkit
+
** Foundation is considering allowing LGPL for exempt prereqs, but not for works-with .. missing a policy for dealing with LGPL works-with
+
** John: Our original reason for marking works-with is that the SWT browser can use either Mozilla or WebKit. However our long term direction is WebKit-only due to brittleness of the Mozilla API which keeps breaking us. There is an increasing number of distros bundling these WebKit libraries so there is a reasonable chance going forward that the library will already be present on the user's machine.
+
** Martin: Exempt works-with (optional) prereq is perfectly fine for Webkit, since there is a chance it's already there on a Platform (similar to Mozilla)
+
** Classifying it as such makes most sense for Product builders, who look at the prereqs to understand what they need to bundle with their Eclipse based product.
+
** PMC agreed to reclassify these libraries as exempt pre-req.
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''Feb 10, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ
 
* We agreed to list WebKitGTK and libsoup 2.4 as works-with prerequisites
 
* We need to find consensus on {{bug|243582}} (embedding source info in binaries)
 
* Discussed moving Ubuntu version on the plan from 9.04 to 10.04. It is too early to make this decision because release candidates of 10.04 are not yet available, but we will continue to monitor it and make the decision to move up (or not) later in the 3.6 cycle
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''January 21, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, Lars
'''Feb 03, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin
+
* Dani: EPP builds still missing, Dani contacted Markus Knauer to update EPP for M1, release train is at risk if nobody steps up
* Dani: {{Bug|301563}} -  Fast project import from snapshot data
+
* New test failures are investigated, action plan is to restart the test, if they still fails restart the machine and if the tests still fail, see if a revert fixes the test
** Has the feature been verified to really return the expected performance gain? - Martin: Yes, Cisco reports 10 minute -> 5 seconds improvement by using the feature on project import on their view (65000 files)
+
** Is the feature valuable without Index contributions from JDT / CDT? - Martin: Yes, even "plain" projects benefit when there are linked resources pointing to web folders through RSE/EFS since they can be browsed immediately and refresh can be reduced to what's really needed. But most benefit is gained when there is also a shared index to be imported for immediate use.
+
** Dani proposed checkin into a branch for easier merge / review - Martin: Will start working with patches
+
** AI Martin: Contact Sharon regarding IP review (reserve a slot)
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''Jan 27, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
 
* Dani: Markus Keller taking over JDT UI
 
* John: M6 Splashscreen for Eclipsecon: {{bug|297355}}
 
* McQ: Removing Builds - SWT needs Linux-Motif, so only WPF about to be removed
 
** In discussions with Microsoft, it turned out that WPF is not required to get full Windows 7 experience under Win32
 
** XAML for styling was meant to be a cool idea but never got flying
 
** Socialize people with this -- find whether people are inerested in contributing on this, if yes then we should support them
 
* Still working the IBM approval process for travelling to Eclipsecon
 
* Avoid merging major feature work after a milestone's Tuesday test pass
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''January 14, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom
'''Jan 20, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
* Dani: Switch to SUSE Enterprise 15, team is in favor to drop 12
* McQ: Contacted Steve N, still interested but unlikely to get more energy for investing into Eclipse
+
* Dani: Plan updated to remove Windows 7
* John: 3.5.2 test pass tomorrow, but yesterday's I-build been a mess
+
* Alex: Felix Dependencies for SCR done
* McQ: Message about supporting Open JDK in a blog ... status should be "nice that it works but it's not a reference platform"
+
** confirm fix for {{bug|544571}}
 +
** releng disruptions during update, but recovered.  More disruptions expected as we update dependencies for March release.
 +
** broken builds, need to get a list of issues. Seems to be more infrastructure issues. Need to report back to the foundation. Example, the signing issue that broken the respin.
 +
* Some discussion about gitlab option at foundation. {{bug|537913}}
 +
** What happens to gerrit work flow for review?
 +
** Would dropping bugzilla happen or can we migrate all issues?
 +
** Without migration it is a no-go for us
 +
** Currently no plans to move Eclipse project to gitlab at this time.
  
<hr/>
 
'''Jan 13, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
 
* McQ: U Manitoba students to help with technical communication (documentation, website, ...) for e4
 
* Dani: New way of contributing Capabilities for Helios... are we OK? - John: yes, Platform Capabilities are in the SDK feature
 
** FYI: Incubating projects are
 
* Martin: Documenting the Platforms we routinely test on
 
** Unittest / Perftest machines are know. When John updated the Reference Platform doc, he made sure that he knows at least one committer on each platform
 
** A poll to know what Platform(s) are actively used (by committers) on milestone granularity would be very helpful - John going to set that up
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''January 7, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars
'''Jan 6, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Jeff
+
* Dani: Created initial 4.15 plan - please have a look
* Agreed on 3.5.2 [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/freeze_plan_3_5_2.php freeze plan]
+
* Dani: Created release record for 4.15
** Note RC2 is a week earlier to avoid colliding with Helios M5 week
+
* Dani: Sent a note to teams to create their 4.15 plan items/bugs
* Discussed Helios plan updates 2 {{bug|298200}}
+
* Dani: Do we want to drop support for Windows 7 (remove from Target Environments only)
** Update Java 7 plan item to indicate only working on publicly available bits. Some progress made on getting access to specs but going slowly.
+
** Unanimous decision: Yes
** Update reference JRE's to latest version of each JRE
+
* Dani: Discuss (again, see below) resolution for stale bugs
* Jeff will be away for next six weeks (vacation)
+
** We want to ask the webmaster that stale bugs are directly closed. ACTION ITEM for Lars
* McQ to contact Steve to see if he still wishes to remain on PMC
+
** We will only auto/mass close existing stale bugs with notification turned off
 +
* Change rules about x-internal exports ({{bug|553709}})
 +
** Decision:
 +
** - Newly added internal packages should not use x-internal exports unless there are very good reasons
 +
** - For existing packages the x-internal export can be removed with PMC approval
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2019 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2019]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2018 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2018]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2017 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2017]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Latest revision as of 11:09, 31 March 2021

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

Mar 31, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex

  • PMC call time
    • Overlaps with Planning council call and both Tom and Alex can't make both

-> Decision: Skip PMC call every first Wed of the month

  • Webpage Hugo migration
    • Recommended by Eclipse Foundation and active contributor to do the conversion
    • Concerns about mixing old and new content are raised but they don't look severe
    • Supported by PMC

-> Tom to handle initial communication on behalf of PMC

  • Planning process relevance
    • the planning process is not providing the detailed and usable plans from the past
    • not a pain point as fewer people participate it but looks like useless exercise quite often
    • to be discussed....


Mar 24, 2021 - Tom, Alex, Lars

  • Pack 200 - API removal in 2 years - 2023-06
    • Should we turn off all pack 200 features in one year, make it consistent across all Java versions.
    • 2022-06 - disable pack200 for all Java versions. Calling the deprecated API will be a no-op
  • Pack 200 - When can we stop generating? Agreed on 2021-09 release. We should set the precedence as early as possible to stop producing pack200 artifacts.
  • split packages
    • Causing issues with mandatory directive and p2 bug 360659 and with tycho.
    • Currently tycho requires some work arounds for usage of split packages
    • Can we work to get rid of split packages. We agreed to investigate the work and move to combine split packages if possible.


Mar 17, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars

  • SWT Chromium support
    • Still no recent version of Chromium with security patches
    • Will be dropped in M1 (if no recent version is provided in the next weeks or if no one steps up)
  • Pack 2000 support
    • not supported anymore as of Java 14
    • will be deprecated and marked for removal
  • Moving Eclipse repos to Github
    • Moving to Github might simplify and therefore increase contributions
    • Huge amount of work in releng
    • Potentially we should all subprojects at the same time
    • We check if the foundation plans to move everything to Gitlab


Mar 10, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex

  • Moving to Jetty 10 for next release
  • platform-dev discussion about move to GitHub
    • conversation is useful, but would take a lot of planning
    • lots of current rel eng dependencies on Gerrit
      • need more community help for rel eng issues
    • a massive amount of history in our Bugzilla
  • release record and proto-plan created for 4.20


Febr 17, 2021 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • Looks good for 4.19 release
  • Mac ARM has to wait for the 4.20 release, as the team fights multiple issues
  • Top-level project page can currently only be edited by Tom, other PMC members also have access to it https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/eclipse/who


Dec 15, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • 06. January 2021 is the next meeting
  • How can PMC increase the awareness of the project leads / committers?
    • Maybe invite the project leads once per month to the PMC meeting?
    • Discussion how we can increase the JDT community


Dec 01, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • RC1 is out; final touches on RC2
  • How can we remove the confusion about "e4" project?
    • e4 has always been intended to be a sandbox project where people could try things that are experimental or are on a longer timeline
    • Should be renamed to make it clear this isn't about leftovers from the Eclipse 4.0 work (maybe "eNext"?)
    • Should clean up repos
      • Remove repos that just hold code that has already moved to the platform
      • Remove repos that are no longer getting any investment
      • Work toward moving things that are active/useful into the platform (e.g. "spies" to PDE)

Nov 24, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • PMC is considering the potential of an SDK / IDE working group at the foundation
  • Discussion Do we need the extra releng work to create p2 repositories for milestones?
    • Lot of extra work and sometimes goes wrong
    • All I-Builds are anyway available

-> PMC decided to drop the additional p2 repository -> Alex will be sending out an email about it to inform potential users of the special p2 repos

    • Discussion about the purpose of the milestone week at all

-> Decision not to change the process for now, as the additional testing and focus has also some benefits


Nov 17, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Release 4.18 winding down
    • SWT churn for Linux and Mac Big Sur
    • Does not appear the Foundation got the new Mac Hardware for testing
  • Planning Council discussion
    • Dani filled the Eclipse TLP representation role on the Council
    • Alex can take the lead to that role
    • Alex will look to find a replacement for the tools TLP representative


Nov 10, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Still dealing with the loss of Dani
  • Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
  • Stabilizing for M3
  • Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
  • Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency


Nov 10, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Still dealing with the loss of Dani
  • Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
  • Stabilizing for M3
  • Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
  • Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency


Nov 3, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Dani!


Oct 27, 2020 - Lars, Tom

  • Nothing to discuss


Oct 20, 2020 - Lars, Tom, McQ, Alex

  • EclipseCon is running virtual this week
  • Agreement that removal of API should only before M1 release
  • Proof of concept for using Java 11 http client instead of ECF should be done
  • if we remove ECF we should send out an announcement and keep it for at least one release
  • Decision to start using the @Deprecated(since = "x.y.z", forRemoval = true) for planned API removals if the bundle can use Java 11, wiki for API removal should be updated

Oct 6, 2020 - Dani, Tom, McQ, Alex

  • M1 under control
  • Release train materials being worked
  • Moved to Jetty 9.4.32
  • ECF — need to simplify how we consume http client
    • could use Java11 http client instead, but this would require significant development effort
    • Tom/Alex to take an initial stab at understanding scope + open bugs
  • Proposal: remove API once a year
    • Given the already long time for consumers to respond to API deprecation, PMC decision was to continue to allow API removal in any release. It was felt that the incremental benefit was outweighed by the need to be able to move forward quickly.


Sep 15, 2020 - Dani, Tom, Lars, Alex

  • M1
    • Next week M1 - Alex to send reminder note
    • Holiday in India on this Friday
  • Y-Build for Java 16
    • Builds should be fixed and can continue to progress on Java 16
  • SCR upgrade
    • Some issues with EBR maven plugin
    • causes versions to be incorrectly represented in p2 meta-data
    • Orbit needs a new lead, will end up impacting us if no replacement found
  • Tycho being updated to be able to OSGi-fy JARs if they are not there yet.
    • How to use this for a feature?
    • Behaves much like Orbit to produce new versions of the artifact.
    • Could be the solution for Orbit needs.


Sep 22, 2020 - no meeting


Sep 15, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Lars, Tom, Alex

  • Dani: Java 15 released today
    • 4.17 release together with Marketplace for Java 15 support are ready
    • JDT Java 15 to be merged this week
  • Dani: Zoom call with password unless each of the PMC members can be added as meeting owner so can start the meeting
  • Alex: 4.18 stream opened and releng work calmed down
  • Lars: Cleanup of migration guides
    • Dani: this will break existing links, so existing content have to stay unless someone does all the work to fix our plans and other links that will break
    • McQ: help system needs work to focus on the latest stuff/release, what should we do to achieve it? How can we better shape the help system now that having all content ofline is not a requirement?
    • Alex: do not ship migration, n&n,etc. but rather point to website url from help system
    • Alex: this would also reduce manual work for releng (+1 by Dani)
    • ACTION ITEM: Alex to work on n&n in help system to use the website content directly as a proof of concept for further work


Sep 01, 2020 - Lars, Alex

  • RC1 is fine, no additional requests for RC2


August 25, 2020 - Tom, Lars, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: sent out Endgame plan, RC1 this week, vacation starting on Friday
  • Alex informed about Red Hat's Releng participation


August 18, 2020 - Tom, Lars, Dani

  • Dani to create and send out Endgame plan
  • Looking into Mac Big Sur launching issue (bug 565913)


August 11, 2020 - Alex, Dani, Tom, McQ

  • Eclipse Foundation is getting access to an Apple Silicon dev kit
    • Will make it available to SWT devs via cloud connectivity
  • M3 next week; RC1 following week
  • ARM64 port seems to be working fine, except for browser widget (still investigating)


August 4, 2020 - Alex, Lars, Dani

  • no topics to discuss


July 28, 2020 - Tom, McQ

  • no topics to discuss


July 21, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars

  • no topics to discuss
  • Alex on vacation next week


July 14, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars

  • Project status
    • M1 shipped last week
    • Draft Plan for 4.17 posted - additional fixes done after review
    • Release record created for 4.17
  • CQ process discussion - new clearly defined process
    • Note sent to Wayne to get clarifications on handbook, Wayne has made some edits in response. We need to review latest handbook
    • Should simplify IP clearance for third party libraries
      • If a bundle is approved by clearly defined it can be added with no CQ as long as the mavin URLs/coordinates are vetted by clearly defined
      • Orbit should soon automate the linking to clearly defined approvals for bundles added. Currently a work in progress by Roland at Orbit.
      • The ratings system at clearly defined is not used. Only the license check is used.
    • PMC needs to review latest handbook on the topic ... As of now we should move forward with the new process
      • If concerns arise later we will need to take actions to correct
  • bug 565066 - Needs some attention to the solution and testing
    • attempt to make incremental installation be consistent with resolution of a fresh install (or -clean).


June 23, 2020 - no call

June 16, 2020 - no call

June 9, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom

  • McQ: message to guide the community got no public reactions so far
  • Dani: bug reports needed for JDT, do we have PMC agreement?
    • Alex: For me that was approved after jdt-dev vote ended
    • AGREED
  • Dani: RC2 done, no major bug so far but still monitoriing for regressions
  • Alex: 4.17 stream open, not finished until 4.16 if final so all apichecks and etc. are in proper shape
  • Tom: OSGi R8 merge after stabilizing 4.17 stream
  • Tom: OSGi Move to Java 8 right after that
  • Dani: Switch to Java 11 as min version as it was already announced to happen in 4.17 stream shortly


June 2, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom

  • Inactive committer clean up for Eclipse project for the 4.16 release started via bug 563720
  • Infrastructure is really slow for RC2 release
  • RC2 bug queue is really low, one restart issue which is currently under investigated by Tom
  • Discussion about the JDT cleanup e-mails
    • Need to ensure community discussions are positive and respectful.
    • Expectations here should come from leadership
      • LibreOffice did this in the past to great success.
    • Committers can vote against bugs but the tone of the discussion is important.
    • PMC will respond via the public mailing list within a week


May 26, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ


May 19, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Dani: Issues with the build infrastructure, might endanger M3, the team got a working build for testing
  • Dani: PowerPC hardware was donated so builds are starting again for it
  • Alex: CQ process might get simpler based on blog post from Wayne, Alex to test and validate with Wayne https://blogs.eclipse.org/post/wayne-beaton/revising-eclipse-ip-due-diligence-process-third-party-content
  • Lars: Question if we want to allow "EGit" commit style in Eclipse top-level project. Agreement was to allow it but not to recommend it or enforce it


May 12, 2020 - Tom, Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex

  • Update to themes
    • Preference being added for choosing square vs round tabs
    • Intern from Alex's team is taking up the work
    • Update to Windows theme to be Windows 10
  • Alex brings up changes to CQ requirements. Need to read up on Wayne's post about this and discuss in a future call if we can change how the project does CQs
  • Who is running dark theme?
    • Need someone to cover test of Dark Theme on Linux. Lars indicated that he runs with Linux Dark Theme and can help in coverage
    • Dani described the various members of his team that cover the rest of the platforms
  • Request to contribute to article on what is new in the release for a June newsletter. Lars to contribute improvements in the Dark theme. General request to others to contribute anything else.
  • ppc64le build troubles
    • Been having ongoing issues with the university hosted ppc64le machine we use to build support for ppc64le
    • Currently the ppc64le build has been disabled
    • Need to find alternatives
      • May be able to use something from IBM public cloud
      • Other suggestions: McQ - look towards using emulation, Alex - could do cross-compilation
    • Need to plan if ppc 10 will supported in the future


May 5, 2020 - Dani, Alex, Lars, McQ, Tom

  • M2 shipped on time
    • Dark theme rebuild for M2 due to severe issue
  • ICU4J removal note sent
    • Lars - 2 years notice period needed?
    • Agreement: it's needed as we expose it in API and still have usages in internals so we need time to clean up ourself
    • EPPs cleanup - some blocked by JDT still using it, some by WTP, Rust probably the first one to be icu4j clean
  • Roundes vs square ctabfolder
    • Number of themes to be reduced
    • Performance not being measurable
    • Agreement: add preference to switch the rounded vs
    • Agreement: when preference is available Square is default
  • Windows theme update -
    • Fix colors to match Windows 10
    • GTK looks way more sane as more effort has been invested to keep it current
    • Don't set colors but use the colors from the OS theme is the recipe
    • Ugly white line on windows dark theme needs bugzilla open


April 28, 2020 - Dani, Alex, Lars


April 21, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • Q: How do we deal with ICU removal from data binding?
    • Need to follow standard API removal rules
      • Deprecate old API and offer new API
      • Remove deprecated API after 2 years
    • Can we put the old stuff in a fragment that could be removed?
  • Theming: rounded tabs versus square tabs (bug 562221)
    • Should we offer it at all?
    • Alex: Don’t increase the number of themes or options
    • Lars: Square tabs are faster
    • If speed is significant, we should consider changing the default


April 14, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • Dani
    • M1 shipped, no problems so far
    • Using ECJ from M1 to build the SDK has some issues, there are people working on it
    • 4.16 plan to be published this week
  • Unanimous decision to continue to use Zoom as usual


April 7, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • Dani
    • Created 4.16 plan
    • Created release record for 4.16. Corresponding bug is bug 561643
    • Sent note to add planning bugs for 4.16
    • Please review and provide feedback if any
    • After some infrastructure issues we have a good test build and currently things look good for M1 this week
  • Alex seconded the infrastructure issues and missing test results
  • ICU4J (bug 560312): we decided to remove it piece by piece from projects where possible and where someone is interested to do it. The ICU bundle itself will stay, and we will follow the API removal process when we are ready to remove it, i.e. no usage in the SDK anymore


March 31, 2020 - Dani, Alex, McQ, Tom, Lars

  • Dani: Contacted the ICU4J owner. He updated bug 560312, PMC members will review the comment and we will discuss next week
  • Dani: Planning bugs are created slowly for 4.16. Will send a reminder to the list to submit more. Started to work on plan and release record.


March 24, 2020 - Alex, McQ, Tom

  • Dani: Regrets for the call (Eclipse Board call)
  • Alex: status updates
    • JDT merged Java 14 in master
    • Build instability due to infra status
  • Alex: OSGi R8 modules support - what is it?
    • Tom: ability to represent external content in the OSGi framework
    • Alex: Will it allow shipping eclipse plugins as JPMS modules to ease native library handling?
    • Tom: Haven't found any clear example how JPMS handles this, so good example is needed before could be looked further.


March 17, 2020 - Alex, McQ, Lars Tom, Dani

  • ICU4J use still under discussion
    • Dani still to contact ICU4J owner
  • Shipping Java 14 and 4.15 this week
  • Java 14 work will be merged to master on Wednesday


March 10, 2020 - Lars, Tom

  • Dani: Regrets for the call (vacation)
  • ICU4J use still under discussion
    • if we can be confident that performance and language support are of *similar* quality, we should work towards removing icu4j because it reduces complexity for us, in addition allowing for smaller RCP apps
    • note that we already have mixed usage -- some components using icu4j and some not
  • to clarify approvals that require a project lead can be done by a project lead for any of the Eclipse Project subprojects
    • as usual, the project lead should take care to understand the change and its implications before approving
  • we will move to Jetty 10 (and thus to Java 11) for the fall release
  • RH will be leading releng for 4.16


March 3, 2020 - no meeting


February 25, 2020 - Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex

  • Dani: Created and sent Endgame plan
  • Dani: Submitted IP Log: https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21716
  • Alex: SWT on Linux in 4.16 to require Gtk 3.20 to simplify CSS machinery and prep for GTK4
  • Alex: ICU4J removal
    • Dani: ICU4J reacts faster to changes and supports more features (new Japanese era)
    • Alex: It might but Eclipse fails at keeping up so current version shipped with Eclipse misses features that the JVM supports (latest CLDR)
    • Dani: Asks for a proof that JVM is better that ICU
    • Alex: Which metrics to be measured?
    • Dani: Will check with ICU guy about that and whether it's still needed


February 18, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom

  • Dani: need to work on IP Log, Release Review and Endgame Plan
  • Lars: ECF - will we update to the latest
    • Alex: is in the works. Scott needs to provide us with the update
  • Tom: Found an issue with JUnit 5 launching but not reproducible with latest I-build
    • Dani: File a bug if you have steps or contact Noopur directly
  • Dani: Update on X-builds and tags


February 11, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom

  • Alex: Infrastructure is very instable, how can be complain to the foundation?
    • Alex: Eclipse foundation server team not responding to complains and seem unclear about the source of the issue
    • Discussion about makes a stronger statement to the foundation about the bad state of the infrastructure
    • McQ: Suggestion to send a note as PMC to the foundation
    • Dani: First we should ask webmaster why this takes so long
    • Alex: Marketplace infrastructure is also in bad state

-> Alex to contact Denis and to cc the other PMC members

February 4, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Tom

  • OSGi Spec talk
    • OSGi R8 Core will be done this year.
    • May be ready for 4.16, but no rush if it slips to 4.17
    • Will not put anything in master until spec is final which makes it more likely to be 4.17


January 28, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars

  • Ongoing saga of the EPP packages
    • Markus did it last week
    • PMC discussed possible futures here, but no conclusions
    • Discussion also happening at the board level
  • M2 is this week
  • Pushing for JUnit updates for M2


January 21, 2020 - Dani, Tom, Lars

  • Dani: EPP builds still missing, Dani contacted Markus Knauer to update EPP for M1, release train is at risk if nobody steps up
  • New test failures are investigated, action plan is to restart the test, if they still fails restart the machine and if the tests still fail, see if a revert fixes the test


January 14, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom

  • Dani: Switch to SUSE Enterprise 15, team is in favor to drop 12
  • Dani: Plan updated to remove Windows 7
  • Alex: Felix Dependencies for SCR done
    • confirm fix for bug 544571
    • releng disruptions during update, but recovered. More disruptions expected as we update dependencies for March release.
    • broken builds, need to get a list of issues. Seems to be more infrastructure issues. Need to report back to the foundation. Example, the signing issue that broken the respin.
  • Some discussion about gitlab option at foundation. bug 537913
    • What happens to gerrit work flow for review?
    • Would dropping bugzilla happen or can we migrate all issues?
    • Without migration it is a no-go for us
    • Currently no plans to move Eclipse project to gitlab at this time.


January 7, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars

  • Dani: Created initial 4.15 plan - please have a look
  • Dani: Created release record for 4.15
  • Dani: Sent a note to teams to create their 4.15 plan items/bugs
  • Dani: Do we want to drop support for Windows 7 (remove from Target Environments only)
    • Unanimous decision: Yes
  • Dani: Discuss (again, see below) resolution for stale bugs
    • We want to ask the webmaster that stale bugs are directly closed. ACTION ITEM for Lars
    • We will only auto/mass close existing stale bugs with notification turned off
  • Change rules about x-internal exports (bug 553709)
    • Decision:
    • - Newly added internal packages should not use x-internal exports unless there are very good reasons
    • - For existing packages the x-internal export can be removed with PMC approval

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