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= Documents =
 
= Documents =
−
 
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
  
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= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
  
−
'''Feb 21, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey
+
'''Mar 31, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars
−
* Lars: {{Bug|512273}} Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and {{Bug|512319}} allow rebase
+
* Java 16 jar signing issue
−
** '''Agreement''' to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
+
** Tom wants to replace equinox implementation with builtin Jar file implementation so changes don't have to be done in Equinox on each release
−
** Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
+
* JSP/Jetty story in IDE
−
** '''AI Lars''' follow up on the bug
+
** Do we still need same functionality?
−
* Martin: '''UI Testing'''
+
** Alex - get out of the business for help system. Dependencies (jetty, lucene) generate more releng work than we can handle.
−
** [http://eclipse.org/rcptt RCPTT] is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
+
** McQ - url for plugin help would be simplest and open it in browser
−
** Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
+
** Any change (e.g. JSP removal) has to go through standard deprecation period, announcements and etc.
−
** When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
+
** Alex to initiate communication on longer term plan with Holger who works on improvements to help system lately
−
** Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
+
 
−
** Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
+
 
−
*** Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
+
'''Mar 31, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex
−
** '''AI Martin''' follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
+
 
−
** '''AI Alex''' share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
+
* PMC call time
−
** '''AI Lars''' play with the Reddeer API
+
** Overlaps with Planning council call and both Tom and Alex can't make both
−
* Dani: '''Update on PPC''' drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs {{bug|512224}}
+
-> Decision: Skip PMC call every first Wed of the month
−
** Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm '''AI Alex and Dani''' ask Denis
+
 
−
* Dani: '''Neon.3 RC3''' please keep an eye on builds
+
* Webpage Hugo migration
 +
** Recommended by Eclipse Foundation and active contributor to do the conversion
 +
** Concerns about mixing old and new content are raised but they don't look severe
 +
** Supported by PMC
 +
-> Tom to handle initial communication on behalf of PMC
 +
 
 +
* Planning process relevance
 +
** the planning process is not providing the detailed and usable plans from the past
 +
** not a pain point as fewer people participate it but looks like useless exercise quite often
 +
** to be discussed....
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Mar 24, 2021''' - Tom, Alex, Lars
 +
 
 +
* Pack 200 - API removal in 2 years - 2023-06
 +
** Should we turn off all pack 200 features in one year, make it consistent across all Java versions.
 +
** 2022-06 - disable pack200 for all Java versions. Calling the deprecated API will be a no-op
 +
 
 +
* Pack 200 - When can we stop generating? Agreed on 2021-09 release.  We should set the precedence as early as possible to stop producing pack200 artifacts.
 +
 
 +
* split packages
 +
** Causing issues with mandatory directive and p2 {{bug|360659}} and with tycho.
 +
** Currently tycho requires some work arounds for usage of split packages
 +
** Can we work to get rid of split packages. We agreed to investigate the work and move to combine split packages if possible.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Mar 17, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars
 +
* SWT Chromium support
 +
** Still no recent version of Chromium with security patches
 +
** Will be dropped in M1 (if no recent version is provided in the next weeks or if no one steps up)
 +
 
 +
* Pack 2000 support
 +
** not supported anymore as of Java 14
 +
** will be deprecated and marked for removal
 +
 
 +
* Moving Eclipse repos to Github
 +
** Moving to Github might simplify and therefore increase contributions
 +
** Huge amount of work in releng
 +
** Potentially we should all subprojects at the same time
 +
** We check if the foundation plans to move everything to Gitlab
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Mar 10, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex
 +
* Moving to Jetty 10 for next release
 +
* platform-dev discussion about move to GitHub
 +
** conversation is useful, but would take a lot of planning
 +
** lots of current rel eng dependencies on Gerrit
 +
*** need more community help for rel eng issues
 +
** a massive amount of history in our Bugzilla
 +
* release record and proto-plan created for 4.20
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Febr 17, 2021''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* Looks good for 4.19 release
 +
* Mac ARM has to wait for the 4.20 release, as the team fights multiple issues
 +
* Top-level project page can currently only be edited by Tom, other PMC members also have access to it https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/eclipse/who
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Dec 15, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* 06. January 2021 is the next meeting
 +
* How can PMC increase the awareness of the project leads / committers?
 +
** Maybe invite the project leads once per month to the PMC meeting?
 +
** Discussion how we can increase the JDT community
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Dec 01, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* RC1 is out; final touches on RC2
 +
* How can we remove the confusion about "e4" project?
 +
** e4 has always been intended to be a sandbox project where people could try things that are experimental or are on a longer timeline
 +
** Should be renamed to make it clear this isn't about leftovers from the Eclipse 4.0 work (maybe "eNext"?)
 +
** Should clean up repos
 +
*** Remove repos that just hold code that has already moved to the platform
 +
*** Remove repos that are no longer getting any investment
 +
*** Work toward moving things that are active/useful into the platform (e.g. "spies" to PDE)
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 24, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
 +
* PMC is considering the potential of an SDK / IDE working group at the foundation
 +
 
 +
* Discussion Do we need the extra releng work to create p2 repositories for milestones?
 +
** Lot of extra work and sometimes goes wrong
 +
** All I-Builds are anyway available
 +
 
 +
-> PMC decided to drop the additional p2 repository
 +
-> Alex will be sending out an email about it to inform potential users of the special p2 repos
 +
 
 +
** Discussion about the purpose of the milestone week at all
 +
-> Decision not to change the process for now, as the additional testing and focus has also some benefits
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 17, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Release 4.18 winding down
 +
** SWT churn for Linux and Mac Big Sur
 +
** Does not appear the Foundation got the new Mac Hardware for testing
 +
* Planning Council discussion
 +
** Dani filled the Eclipse TLP representation role on the Council
 +
** Alex can take the lead to that role
 +
** Alex will look to find a replacement for the tools TLP representative
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 10, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Still dealing with the loss of Dani
 +
* Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
 +
* Stabilizing for M3
 +
* Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
 +
* Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 10, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Still dealing with the loss of Dani
 +
* Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
 +
* Stabilizing for M3
 +
* Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
 +
* Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Nov 3, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* Dani!
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Oct 27, 2020''' - Lars, Tom
 +
* Nothing to discuss
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Oct 20, 2020''' - Lars, Tom, McQ, Alex
 +
* EclipseCon is running virtual this week
 +
* Agreement that removal of API should only before M1 release
 +
* Proof of concept for using Java 11 http client instead of ECF should be done
 +
* if we remove ECF we should send out an announcement and keep it for at least one release
 +
* Decision to start using the @Deprecated(since = "x.y.z", forRemoval = true) for planned API removals if the bundle can use Java 11, wiki for API removal should be updated
 +
 
 +
'''Oct 6, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, McQ, Alex
 +
* M1 under control
 +
* Release train materials being worked
 +
* Moved to Jetty 9.4.32
 +
* ECF — need to simplify how we consume http client
 +
** could use Java11 http client instead, but this would require significant development effort
 +
** Tom/Alex to take an initial stab at understanding scope + open bugs
 +
* Proposal: remove API once a year
 +
** Given the already long time for consumers to respond to API deprecation, PMC decision was to continue to allow API removal in any release. It was felt that the incremental benefit was outweighed by the need to be able to move forward quickly.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
'''Sep 15, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, Lars, Alex
 +
* M1
 +
** Next week M1 - Alex to send reminder note
 +
** Holiday in India on this Friday
 +
 
 +
* Y-Build for Java 16
 +
** Builds should be fixed and can continue to progress on Java 16
 +
 
 +
* SCR upgrade
 +
** Some issues with EBR maven plugin
 +
** causes versions to be incorrectly represented in p2 meta-data
 +
** Orbit needs a new lead, will end up impacting us if no replacement found
 +
 
 +
* Tycho being updated to be able to OSGi-fy JARs if they are not there yet.
 +
** How to use this for a feature?
 +
** Behaves much like Orbit to produce new versions of the artifact.
 +
** Could be the solution for Orbit needs.
  
−
'''Feb 15, 2017'''
 
  
−
'''Feb 8, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
+
'''Sep 22, 2020''' - no meeting
−
* Dani: '''{{bug|509412}}''' - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
+
−
** Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
+
−
** Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
+
−
** Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
+
−
** Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
+
−
* Dani: '''Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform'''
+
−
** Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
+
−
** Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
+
−
* Dani: '''Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server'''
+
−
** Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
+
−
* Dani: '''Scenarios for UI Testing'''
+
−
** Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
+
−
* Dani: '''Sign Up for Security Rep'''
+
−
** See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/tools-pmc/msg03927.html Wayne's message to PMCs] requesting PMC attendance
+
−
** John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
+
−
** Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
+
−
** '''RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up''' since already following security issues
+
−
* Dani+Alex: '''libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC'''
+
−
** Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
+
−
** Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
+
−
** Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
+
−
** Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
+
−
** Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
+
−
** If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
+
−
** '''AI Dani+McQ''' find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
+
−
* Alex: '''Update on Reddeer Testing Framework'''
+
−
** A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
+
−
** Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
+
−
** Martin has been looking at [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT] which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
+
−
** (call had to be closed at this point)
+
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
<strike>Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled</strike>
 
−
<hr/>
 
  
−
'''Jan 24, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
+
'''Sep 15, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Lars, Tom, Alex
−
* Dani: '''New Jetty Version''' - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
+
* Dani: Java 15 released today
−
* Dani: '''javax.xml''' - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
+
** 4.17 release together with Marketplace for Java 15 support are ready
−
** Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
+
** JDT Java 15 to be merged this week
−
* Alex: '''[http://jboss-reddeer.github.io/reddeer/ Reddeer Testing Framework]'''
+
* Dani: Zoom call with password unless each of the PMC members can be added as meeting owner so can start the meeting
−
** JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
+
* Alex: 4.18 stream opened and releng work calmed down
−
** Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
+
* Lars: Cleanup of migration guides
−
*** Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
+
** Dani: this will break existing links, so existing content have to stay unless someone does all the work to fix our plans and other links that will break
−
*** API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
+
** McQ: help system needs work to focus on the latest stuff/release, what should we do to achieve it? How can we better shape the help system now that having all content ofline is not a requirement?
−
** Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
+
** Alex: do not ship migration, n&n,etc. but rather point to website url from help system
−
*** Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
+
** Alex: this would also reduce manual work for releng (+1 by Dani)
−
*** No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
+
** ACTION ITEM: Alex to work on n&n in help system to use the website content directly as a proof of concept for further work
−
** Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT], it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
+
−
** Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
+
−
*** Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
+
−
** Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
+
−
** Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --&gt; Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
+
−
*** Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
+
−
*** '''AI Alex''' to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
+
−
*** '''AI Martin''' to try installing Jubula until next week
+
−
*** '''AI Martin''' ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.
+
  
−
<hr>
 
−
'''Jan 17, 2017''' - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ
 
−
* Sergey: '''Merging platform.resources with platform.ui'''
 
−
** Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
 
−
*** Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
 
−
** Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
 
−
** Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
 
−
** Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
 
−
*** McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
 
−
** Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
 
−
** Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even {{bug|509412}} was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
 
−
** Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
 
−
** McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
 
−
* Lars: '''Removing javax.xml'''
 
−
** Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
 
−
** Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
 
−
** Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
 
−
** McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
 
−
** Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
 
−
**'''AI Lars''' send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
 
−
* Dani: '''Project Updates'''
 
−
** Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
 
−
* McQ: '''UI Testing and Jubula'''
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''Sep 01, 2020''' - Lars, Alex
−
'''Jan 10, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck
+
* RC1 is fine, no additional requests for RC2
−
* Dani: '''Platform Bits on Maven Central''' - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
+
−
* Dani: '''Board Committer Rep Elections''' opening
+
−
* Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
+
−
* Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
+
−
* Lars: '''Equinox move to Platform''' - no updates - '''AI Dani''' talk to Tom again
+
−
* McQ / AlexS: '''Jubula'''
+
−
** In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
+
−
** Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
+
−
** Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
+
−
** AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
+
−
*** For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
+
−
*** Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
+
−
*** UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
+
−
*** Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
+
−
*** Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
+
−
*** Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure ('''AI AlexS to check''')
+
−
*** Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
+
−
**** Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
+
−
*** '''AI AlexS''' send slides
+
−
*** '''AI Dani + Lars''' propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
+
−
*** '''AI AlexS''' check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started
+
  
−
== 2016 Minutes ==
 
  
−
'''Dec 20, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, Sergey
+
'''August 25, 2020''' - Tom, Lars, Alex, Dani
−
* Dani: '''{{bug|499768}} Oxygen Plan Update''' - Ubuntu 14.04 removed as a reference platform. CQ deadline added.
+
* Dani: sent out Endgame plan, RC1 this week, vacation starting on Friday
−
* Dani: '''SWTBot Status'''
+
* Alex informed about Red Hat's Releng participation
−
** Worked well until Eclipse.org HIPPs were updated - now, with icewm there are focus issues, causing random recognition errors. There is {{bug|506995}} open to provide a better alternative.
+
−
** CDT has been affected as per {{bug|509248}} - Dani also in contact with egit
+
−
** Until then, we have to wait to look into SWTBot
+
−
* Sergey: '''Neon.2''' - GA tomorrow, branch is open already
+
−
* Alex: '''Webkit 2 Update''' - Javascript integration is working; plugins running out-of-process is a huge benefit
+
−
** BrowserFunctions not working yet (callbacks like "onClick" in Browser Widgets) - OK to still make Webkit2 the default ?
+
−
** Should test Javadoc hovers; Help system navigation to Javadoc; Intro pages; expect to be done by M6, probably even M5
+
−
** Martin doesn't want to block downstream adopters; enable fallback by environment variable and announce on cross-project
+
−
** Alex will look at enabling at least onClick(), that's perhaps the 80% case, and do some more testing before switching
+
−
* Dani: '''Eclipse.org Infrastructure Updates'''
+
−
** {{bug|499399}} being discussed on the board level now; especially VNC on the HIPPs, and {{bug|508658}} repo.eclipse.org
+
−
** VNC may be non-trivial to get fixed since SLES is almost entirely targeting back-end services
+
−
** Would need a reasonably recent UI stack - anything like CentOS, Fedora, Mandriva
+
−
** '''Goal would be having the test "close to what end users use"'''
+
−
** Enterprise users tend to use "older" distributions (CentOS, Ubuntu LTS)
+
−
*** Statistics like https://www.linuxcounter.net/statistics/distributions might be misleading since enterprise users typically don't count there
+
−
*** On the other hand, enterprise customers typically also don't use the very latest Eclipse; and have their own support channels to report issues. So for active development, newer distros may be desirable.
+
−
* Will cancel the Dec.27 and Jan.3 PMC calls
+
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''Dec 13, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Alex, Martin, Dani, Sergey
 
−
* McQ: '''Rebuild for M4''' due to 3 bugs, e.g. {{bug|508717}} - Could testing be improved ?
 
−
** Probably no 1:1 relation, but need a modern story for getting confidence in what we provide to the Community. A massive 7-hours API testing as done today doesn't hurt but isn't the solution
 
−
*** Lars: Test Suite is currently inactive for Quick Access - activation is on the roadmap
 
−
*** Would like some end-to-end scenario testing from the UI
 
−
** Platform UI would like to start using SWTbot - most lightweight - at least some initial tests as examples
 
−
*** '''AI Dani''' talk to Mickael to understand what was blocking from adding it
 
−
** UI tests are good for stable things, problematic for work-in-progress UIs
 
−
** GUIdancer / Jubula looked very impressive - but seems to require a database, so hard to run locally
 
−
** Martin: Reach out to projects on top of the Platform and ask them run on an I-build, at least occasionally?
 
−
*** Sergey thinks that we need to run tests ourselves.
 
−
*** Alex: Linuxtools could easily run tests against I-Builds; Heavy usage of SWTbot in place but it's unreliable - tests are very fragile, even smallest changes break the tests easily, tests were rewritten very often, making this quite expensive
 
−
*** Would only verify SuSE 12 if running on HIPP, but that doesn't tell much about other Platforms
 
−
** McQ would like a "sanity-level check" on commits, to get some level of confidence on the builds ... a quick test which actually checks how people are using Eclipse today
 
−
** Alex thinks that the current test suites are not in a good shape: many tests fail when run locally, even though good on Foundation hardware - cleaning this up is a lot of effort
 
−
** McQ: Interested in the "top 10 ways of working with Eclipse" - could we test the top 10 scenarios ? Can we even find them ... and make those small "top 10" set stable so it can run anywhere ?
 
−
* Lars: '''Push Maven Artifacts to Central'''
 
−
** What should be the group ID ?
 
−
*** Dani thinks we cannot use org.eclipse (too generic) - maybe o.e.platform / o.e.jdt / o.e.pde (Q: Also split out o.e.swt / o.e.ui ?)
 
−
*** Martin wouldn't split out o.e.ui -- would prefer more grouped together in Platform
 
−
*** '''AGREEMENT''' to group by project name: o.e.platform / o.e.jdt / o.e.pde
 
−
** Maven has only 3-part-versions : what to do with the qualifier ?
 
−
*** Alex: Sometime we don't bump the version for Beta releases - cannot override
 
−
**** Dani: releasing with a new qualifier but without a new version is a bug and should be found by reports and fixed
 
−
*** Dani: Using n.n.n-BUILDID is perhaps an issue since it's not treated as a release any more (but a snapshot)
 
−
*** '''AGREEMENT''' to use 3-part versions.
 
−
*** '''AGREEMENT''' to Stefan's proposal only releasing Neon.2 for now.
 
−
*** '''AI Dani''' respond to Stefan.
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''August 18, 2020''' - Tom, Lars, Dani
−
'''Dec 6, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Dani to create and send out Endgame plan
−
* McQ talked to Tom Watson about Equinox moving to Platform - Tom wants to discuss with the RT PMC
+
* Looking into Mac Big Sur launching issue ({{bug|565913}})
−
* Alex: '''Update on Wayland'''
+
−
** Fedora 25 shipping with Wayland by default
+
−
** Wayland back-end for SWT is a patch in progress, some events not delivered, others incorrectly
+
−
** Hoping to be in good shape by M5.
+
−
** Until then, Gnome can be started on X11 with additional packages installed.
+
−
** If Wayland is needed, the XWayland compatibility layer does work although slow (some drawing can be seen)
+
−
** Some rewrite in the Launcher will be needed due to the security model - each window is isolated
+
−
* Dani: '''How we test milestones''' - people putting in features sometimes don't seem to participate in the milestone week
+
−
** McQ: Agrees that a good deal of manual testing is needed to cover flows that developers actually use
+
−
** Alex: If milestone week overlaps with other duties (outside Platform) those other duties often take precedence
+
−
** Test automation doesn't help for new features that add UI
+
−
** Sergey distributes I-Builds so regressions are often found early - but there's no firm data on quality. Alex also distributes / uses I-Builds.
+
−
** McQ thinks that some confidence in quality is needed, before I-builds are given out
+
−
** Dani: Dogfooding helps a lot more than test plans.
+
−
** ''To be discussed next week when there are more people on the call''
+
−
* 4.6.2 looking good; M4 test pass today for releasing on Friday
+
−
* Oxygen plan hasn't seen comments, so will only put Java 9 updates in there
+
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''Nov 29, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin
 
−
* Sergey: '''[http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-dev/msg10305.html Understaffed Projects Announcement]''' - should it be sent to a wider audience?
 
−
** Was sent to eclipse-dev with cc: eclipse-pmc, see http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-dev/msg10305.html
 
−
** Dani suggest checking the mailing list archives or via RSS eg [https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-dev eclipse-dev mailing list home]
 
−
** '''AI Dani''': send Sergey some links
 
−
* Martin: Is it clear enough what contributors could do if they feel not being heard?
 
−
** There is a forum and developer mailing lists, so for the Eclipse project we are probably good
 
−
** Dani: The README.txt on top of the repo looks like a very good place for such kind of information
 
−
** '''AI Martin''' review a couple READMEs and then make suggestions on the eclipse-pmc mailing list
 
−
* Dani: RC4 - no build currently planned will push RC3. There's also Oxygen M4 next week.
 
−
** Need to move out some planned bugzilla's targeted M4 (platform.ui: Lars to help, core: Sergey)
 
−
** JDT UI is tight since Noopur is on vacation and Markus is very busy with Java 9 and HiDPI work
 
−
* New process in place for the IP Log, IP log for Neon Update 2 (4.6.2) got approved today; Review is scheduled and ends on Dec.21
 
−
* JDT Language Server: Still some blockers on the IP Work (hackathon contributions)
 
−
* '''AI All''' Plan Update for Oxygen M4 {{bug|499768}}; Dani will update the Java 9 info
 
−
* Lars: '''Approvals for Equinox'''
 
−
** RT PMC don't have meetings or a process in place for approvals
 
−
** They think that the Eclipse PMC is in a better position to approve Equinox
 
−
** But why is Equinox on the RT PMC after all, does that still make sense? After all builds are done by Eclipse.
 
−
** '''AI Dani''' discuss with Tom
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''August 11, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, Tom, McQ
−
'''Nov 22, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Sergey, Alex, McQ (Regrets: Lars - travelling)
+
* Eclipse Foundation is getting access to an Apple Silicon dev kit
−
* McQ: Simplify adding committers to understaffed projects
+
** Will make it available to SWT devs via cloud connectivity
−
** '''AI Sergey''' final Polish on Lars' proposal + suggestions as discussed
+
* M3 next week; RC1 following week
−
* Martin: {{bug|498116}} download servers are hosed every Tuesday
+
* ARM64 port seems to be working fine, except for browser widget (still investigating)
−
** PMC agrees to trying a fix for Neon.2 - this kind of issues is important (Android also ran into this kind of issue 2 years ago)
+
−
** Dani: we can encourage them to fix it, but EPP and Equinox are not governed by our PMC
+
−
* Dani: '''Neon.3 Planning'''
+
−
* Dani: '''FEEP Discussions''' on the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-feep-stakeholders eclipse.org-feep-stakeholders] mailing list
+
−
** Voting will be more open this time
+
−
* Dani: '''IP Log for Neon.2''' - Endgame looking good, no planned fixes known at this time, but if there's a fix for {{bug|498116}}, we will consume it
+
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''Nov 15, 2016''' - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Martin, Lars, McQ
 
−
* Dani: Neon.2 Release Review went out, IP Log will come early Dec.
 
−
* Dani: RC2 build tomorrow + test pass on Wed - last build before PMC approval is required
 
−
* Dani: Bugzilla 4.6.3 milestone created - currently too many bugs targeted 4.6.2, suggest moving out except if there's a patch attached
 
−
* Alex: '''Lucene''' - Using Lucene 6 for Platform.UI Indexing, prebuilt indexes of doc bundles need updating
 
−
** Prebuilt indexes of older versions will not be used, the impact is just a slowdown on first startup of help
 
−
** Old-version prebuilt indexes will trigger an entry in the errorlog, so projects will know
 
−
** Q: How much should we push for having a single Lucene in the Release Train? (In Mars we had two)
 
−
*** Problem: Moving to Lucene 6 is real porting effort, and it is not possible to be backward compatible
 
−
*** EGit or XText, who want to support multiple Eclipse versions, may be allowed to bind against other Lucene by exception; but Planning Council message should be to favor the latest by default
 
−
** Martin: Help Search Result Quality -- Was often critisized due to bad analyzers -- has it improved ?
 
−
*** Alex: Lucene 6 has apparently improved things, but team has not explicitly tested these cases
 
−
* All: '''Understaffed Projects Discussion'''
 
−
** Dani: Would like to send the message in a positive way: As a tool for interested parties to gain access to the code, and a tool for understaffed projects to bring in committers
 
−
** Alex: Would like to send the message, that Eclipse is open to contributions
 
−
*** McQ: Yes, but not at the cost of making existing committers feel bad
 
−
*** '''Lars''' to draft a new note (next week)
 
−
* Lars: '''Mylyn Notification API'''
 
−
** Still on Dani's list of items
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''August 4, 2020''' - Alex, Lars, Dani
−
'''Nov 8, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Sergey, Lars, Dani, Alex
+
* no topics to discuss
−
* Dani: '''Update on N-Builds'''
+
−
** Releng team will drop N-builds - will also reduce work on the Releng team
+
−
** Retention policies will need to be updated on I-Builds (keep weekly I-Builds)
+
−
** Provide a Hudson job which can mark an I-Build as unstable in case it isn't good
+
−
* Dani: '''Neon.2'''
+
−
** Feature Freeze today - Release Review just listing the N&N
+
−
** There was some new API, but it was backported mostly for bug fixes ... nothing relevant for the N&N
+
−
** Agreement that release reviews should be minimal effort - there was never community feedback on the reviews.
+
−
* Lars: '''Code Reviews on Understaffed Projects'''
+
−
** Make it easier for known, good people to get access to the code base for reviewing patches
+
−
** We'd still need to know the people - don't offer commit rights to random people
+
−
** Refactorings: Valuable if done by committers, but reviewing patches that are produced by refactorings is too hard
+
−
** Making someone a committer is preferred if there is some commitment to doing work moving forward
+
−
** Sergey: There's too many unreviewed patches against Platform in some areas - we need more committers.
+
−
** Proposal: '''Offer a shortcut for committers on one component who express interest in another component.'''
+
−
*** Criteria: Provided contributions in the past, and shows interest moving forward.
+
−
*** Don't offer commit rights just for one contribution.
+
−
*** Consider merging components if a component has become so small that it's unnecessarily hard to contribute
+
−
**** On a case by case basis, only if we think that merging components would solve more problems than creating new ones.
+
−
** Dani: Who makes the decision on shortcuts - existing committers, or PMC ?
+
−
*** In most cases, committers should have the say - but PMC may interfere if a project looks dysfunctional.
+
−
*** '''AI Alex''' will write up proposed statement
+
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''Nov 1, 2016''' - McQ, Sergey, Lars, Dani, Alex
 
  
−
We agreed on the following changes:
+
'''July 28, 2020''' - Tom, McQ
 +
* no topics to discuss
  
−
* Create maintenance branch immediately after RC1 instead of after the release. Use the maintenance branch to produce the upcoming release.
 
−
* Eliminate all code freezes on the main branch for RC releases, except for 1-2 days after RC1 before the maintenance branch is created. Freezes to allow test for milestone builds will still be applied (milestone freezes).
 
−
* We decided that we will only have ‘I’-like builds, using always signing.
 
−
* We decided to revisit the decision to always ship from master, but that's a longer discussion and won't happen soon.
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''July 21, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars
−
'''Oct 18, 2016''' - McQ, Sergey, Martin, Dani, Alex
+
* no topics to discuss
−
* Dani: '''PMC Approval for Sergey co-lead on Resources''' (Done)
+
* Alex on vacation next week
−
* Alex: '''Lucene Update'''
+
−
** Looking at updating to 6.x in Oxygen - CQs ongoing for Orbit - hoping to make M4
+
−
** Others like Mylyn, Pydev, ... use Lucene 5.x at this time; others consume the Platform
+
−
** There is some potential breaking things but should be fine since multiple Lucene's in parallel can work.
+
−
** If an old pre-built help index can not be read, a new one is generated (Performance hit on the first run)
+
−
** Dani: No issue, will also update Jetty in M4
+
−
* Dani: Would like to open '''eclipse.jdt''' repository and corresponding sub-project to all JDT committers (currently only used for the JDT feature)
+
−
** The project is almost dead with only 2 active committers, since new JDT leads were not voted in
+
−
** Changes to feature will be rare, and Dani agrees to review
+
−
** Allows to put the Oomph setup file into a shared place where all JDT committers have access
+
−
** PROPOSAL AGREED by all.
+
−
* EclipseCon Europe next week - Dani, Lars and Alex will be there - will '''cancel next week's meeting'''
+
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''Oct 11, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex, Sergey
 
−
* Dani: '''Neon Update 2 Endgame Plan sent''' - thanks for the feedback
 
−
* Sergey: We should talk about our release process.
 
−
** McQ asked Sergey to start the discussion via e-mail
 
−
* McQ: What do you think about Devoxx and Eclipse Converge
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''July 14, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars
−
'''Oct 4, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex, Sergey
+
* Project status
−
* Dani: '''Neon Update 2 Endgame Plan''' - working on it
+
** M1 shipped last week
−
* Dani: '''Release Review'''
+
** Draft Plan for 4.17 posted - additional fixes done after review
−
** In the past, features were not announced - now for 4.6.2, features + release review must be in by RC1
+
** Release record created for 4.17
−
** Will do the minimum necessary / required by EMO, for Update Releases.
+
* CQ process discussion - new clearly defined process
−
* Lars: '''p2 merge into Equinox status''' -  
+
** Note sent to Wayne to get clarifications on handbook, Wayne has made some edits in response.  We need to review latest handbook
−
* Sergey: '''Logistics of dealing with Service Releases'''
+
** Should simplify IP clearance for third party libraries
−
** Managing version increments is very fragile and error-prone
+
*** If a bundle is approved by clearly defined it can be added with no CQ as long as the mavin URLs/coordinates are vetted by clearly defined
−
*** Discussion already happened, see {{bug|499164}} -- we'll not increment minor versions on backports even if API is added
+
*** Orbit should soon automate the linking to clearly defined approvals for bundles added.  Currently a work in progress by Roland at Orbit.
−
*** '''AI Dani''' send a note out to eclipse-dev again
+
*** The ratings system at clearly defined is not used.  Only the license check is used.
−
** '''New & Noteworthy / Features for Update Releases:'''
+
** PMC needs to review latest handbook on the topic ... As of now we should move forward with the new process
−
*** If there's new features, there must be a New&Noteworthy for users (everyone agrees)
+
*** If concerns arise later we will need to take actions to correct
−
*** What about doing two feature releases per year with one service release each ?
+
* {{bug|565066}} - Needs some attention to the solution and testing
−
**** Dani: Not having features in "some" releases would defeat what the Community wanted
+
** attempt to make incremental installation be consistent with resolution of a fresh install (or -clean).
−
**** Alex thinks that allowing features every 6 months would calm down most demand for new features
+
−
**** PMC Review of feature backports worked fine so far
+
−
**** '''RESOLUTION''' Will not change the process before having it settle a bit
+
−
***** McQ would love to see a single development stream all the time ...
+
−
*** Would the Generic Editor be acceptable in a release before June 2017 ?
+
−
**** Tentatively yes, it's a separate bundle not affecting other code, it matters to the Community, so why not...
+
−
**** Martin: OK, but what about newly introduced API ... would it be declared "provisional" initially ?
+
−
**** Dani: There's no such thing as "provisional API". Teams who decide on backporting must also decide on API.
+
−
**** Sergey: CDT has done full feature release every quarter for some time now and hasn't screwed up API...
+
−
**** Martin,Lars,Sergey: What about marking "fresh" API as "@noreference under construction" until it's hardened...
+
−
***** McQ: Then declare APIs as official only once a year ?
+
−
***** Wouldn't want to tie to a yearly cycle again ... but then we're back to the Version Numbering discussion...
+
−
***** '''AI All''' continue discussion on mailing list or next week.
+
  
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''June 23, 2020''' - no call
−
'''Sep 27, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex + Sergey Prigogin (guest)
+
−
* Discussion about PMC upstaffing
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''June 16, 2020''' - no call
−
'''Sep 20, 2016''' - Martin, McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex
+
−
* Resources Leadership - '''AI Dani''' reach out to Szymon
+
−
* PMC upstaffing: Focus on large installs; UI Freeze monitor, code cleanup, solid solutions, focus on code reviews
+
−
* Dani: '''Java 9 Moved to July 2017''' - AI Dani talk to the Planning Council, proposing an "Update 1" in July
+
−
** Better for consumers, available via "just update", though little bit extra work (CQ + Release Review)
+
−
** Schedule looks still aggressive when looking at specifications; need to keep the team motivated
+
−
* Dani: '''SelectionListener SWT Change''' - reverted for M2 since more clients were affected than expected
+
−
** Proposed change turned out to be source-incompatible - will look at a different approach
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''June 9, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom
−
'''Sep 13, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Lars
+
* McQ: message to guide the community got no public reactions so far
−
* Upstaffing the PMC
+
* Dani: bug reports needed for JDT, do we have PMC agreement?
−
* Build failures due to an SWT Change
+
** Alex: For me that was approved after jdt-dev vote ended
 +
** AGREED
 +
* Dani: RC2 done, no major bug so far but still monitoriing for regressions
 +
* Alex: 4.17 stream open, not finished until 4.16 if final so all apichecks and etc. are in proper shape
 +
* Tom: OSGi R8 merge after stabilizing 4.17 stream
 +
* Tom: OSGi Move to Java 8 right after that
 +
* Dani: Switch to Java 11 as min version as it was already announced to happen in 4.17 stream shortly
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''Sep 6, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin
 
−
* Dani: Thanks for approving Noopur
 
−
* Dani: Java Language Server Proposal - at the Foundation, will be called "JDT Language Server"
 
−
* Dani: RC4 - Fix for an Equinox p2 issue, only known issue being fixed, looking good
 
−
* Dani: Looking at the generic code editor, would prefer moving some things to M3 (talking to Sopot and Mickael)
 
−
* LTS: Market for paid fixes on old versions not quite as good as expected
 
−
* Release Reviews: When is a feature considered an "important feature" ?
 
−
** Important Features require a full release review thus lots of effort, avoided for Neon.1
 
−
** '''AI Dani''' discuss in Planning Council call tomorrow
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''June 2, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom
−
<strike>Aug 30, 2016 - No topics</strike>
+
* Inactive committer clean up for Eclipse project for the 4.16 release started via {{bug|563720}}
 +
* Infrastructure is really slow for RC2 release
 +
* RC2 bug queue is really low, one restart issue which is currently under investigated by Tom
 +
* Discussion about the JDT cleanup e-mails
 +
** Need to ensure community discussions are positive and respectful.
 +
** Expectations here should come from leadership
 +
*** LibreOffice did this in the past to great success.
 +
** Committers can vote against bugs but the tone of the discussion is important.
 +
** PMC will respond via the public mailing list within a week
  
−
<strike>Aug 23, 2016 - No topics</strike>
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''May 26, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ
−
'''Aug 16, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars
+
* Closed all M3 bugs; RC1 looking good
−
* Dani will not always be available next two weeks (Eclipse Summit India and IBM Bangalore team visit)
+
* Tips&tricks, new&noteworthy, contributions to the newsletter in progress
−
** Please split the load on +1'ing backport/API requests - please do review the code and set the pmc+1 flag
+
* Chromium integration CQ approved -- https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21808
−
* Dani: '''{{bug|498106}} Oxygen Plan'''
+
−
** Agreed by all so far, including removal of REL6 as a reference platform
+
−
** Individual subproject Wikis look pretty consistent now
+
−
** UNIX Platforms (Solaris,AIX,HP-UX) have been removed for M1
+
−
*** PPC-Linux Releng was also removed but accidentally (due to a hardware failure), will be restored for M2.
+
−
** No consensus on Ubuntu yet - will keep 14.04 in for now, consider taking out on the next update
+
−
* Dani: '''{{bug|499164}} Version Numbering for Neon.1'''
+
−
** The original "+5" or "+10" proposal showed some issues:
+
−
** Update with skipping would propagate to features; no tooling; no real benefit of semantic versioning
+
−
** '''AGREEMENT''' to keeping using the status quo for now ("allow small updates even with micro uprev only")
+
−
* Lars: '''p2 pending patches'''
+
−
** '''AI Dani''' send E-Mail to Tom - suggest reviews or merger p2 back to Platform
+
−
* Dani: '''{{bug|499399}} Eclipse Infrastructure Stability'''
+
−
** Denis is looking at it - maybe too many requests coming in ?
+
−
* Lars: '''e4 spy and wizard migration to PDE'''
+
−
** Dani: Are wizards e4 specific, or could they be used with JFace ?
+
−
** New SWT Layout Spy should go to SWT, rather then keeping in PDE's Build
+
−
** Some spies usable also in RCP Apps - for example the e4 model spy - 6 independent projects, dependency on emf.edit
+
−
*** Looks like a big extension to PDE -- consider some consolidation and cleanup (tests, String externalization, ...)
+
−
*** '''AI Lars''' to check if contributors would be willing to clean up as discussed, then moving into pde.ui would be fine.
+
−
<hr/>
+
  
−
'''Aug 09, 2016''' - Dani
 
−
* no one joined - had private conversation with McQ later
 
−
** '''guys, please announce when you can't join. I can make better use of my time than waiting for you in the call ;-) - thanks.'''
 
−
<hr/>
 
  
−
'''Aug 02, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
+
'''May 19, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex
−
* Dani: New [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_7_draft.xml Oxygen Plan Format]
+
* Dani: Issues with the build infrastructure, might endanger M3, the team got a working build for testing
−
** '''AI Dani''' ask Denis about aggregating the Sub Wiki's into the master page
+
* Dani: PowerPC hardware was donated so builds are starting again for it
−
* Alex: SWT Fragments for ARM64 etc
+
* Alex: CQ process might get simpler based on blog post from Wayne, Alex to test and validate with Wayne https://blogs.eclipse.org/post/wayne-beaton/revising-eclipse-ip-due-diligence-process-third-party-content
−
** Tycho doesn't support auto-selecting fragments - in contact with Jan and Tobias
+
* Lars: Question if we want to allow "EGit" commit style in Eclipse top-level project. Agreement was to allow it but not to recommend it or enforce it
−
** Dani: Would like to revert changes - don't want to punish people who are not interested in fragments
+
−
** Not really an SWT problem, so editing .target files would be a clean solution
+
−
** Will probably go with empty (dummy) fragments without natives, as that's the simplest solution
+
−
* Dani: SWT team - Lakshmi going to Sweden, will not be available until end 2016
+
−
** Arun is mostly back, Sravan is now on Releng
+
−
** Need to push further on building at the Foundation!!
+
−
** Alex: Getting CentOS for building ... but test machines are on SLES11, which is too old, will need at least SLES12
+
−
*** Dani: Will need an owner at the Eclipse Foundation to ensure this proceeds ! Alex agreed to further drive this.
+
−
* Target Env: Dropping REL6 -- reference platform for testing will only be REL7 (though will continue to run on REL6)
+
−
** Reducing support level this year, in order to prepare for only supporting GTK3 next year
+
  
−
<hr/>
 
  
−
'''July 26, 2016''' - no meeting
+
'''May 12, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex
 +
* Update to themes
 +
** Preference being added for choosing square vs round tabs
 +
** Intern from Alex's team is taking up the work
 +
** Update to Windows theme to be Windows 10
 +
* Alex brings up changes to CQ requirements.  Need to read up on Wayne's post about this and discuss in a future call if we can change how the project does CQs
 +
* Who is running dark theme?
 +
** Need someone to cover test of Dark Theme on Linux.  Lars indicated that he runs with Linux Dark Theme and can help in coverage
 +
** Dani described the various members of his team that cover the rest of the platforms
 +
* Request to contribute to article on what is new in the release for a June newsletter.  Lars to contribute improvements in the Dark theme.  General request to others to contribute anything else.
 +
* ppc64le build troubles
 +
** Been having ongoing issues with the university hosted ppc64le machine we use to build support for ppc64le
 +
** Currently the ppc64le build has been disabled
 +
** Need to find alternatives
 +
*** May be able to use something from IBM public cloud
 +
*** Other suggestions: McQ - look towards using emulation, Alex - could do cross-compilation
 +
** Need to plan if ppc 10 will supported in the future
  
−
'''July 19, 2016''' - no meeting
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''May 5, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, Lars, McQ, Tom
−
'''July 12, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Alex
+
−
* Dani: Hackathon summary
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
* M2 shipped on time
−
'''July 5, 2016''' - Lars, McQ, Alex, Dani, Martin
+
** Dark theme rebuild for M2 due to severe issue
−
* Lars: SWT move to Java 8
+
* ICU4J removal note sent
−
* Alex: Initial builds of GTK 2.24 for AIX - planning to bump minimum GTK version to 2.24
+
** Lars - 2 years notice period needed?
−
** Will remove non-cairo drawing, this is where most of the breakage happens
+
** Agreement: it's needed as we expose it in API and still have usages in internals so we need time to clean up ourself
−
** Ubuntu 12.04: 2.24.10 / 3.4.5
+
** EPPs cleanup - some blocked by JDT still using it, some by WTP, Rust probably the first one to be icu4j clean
−
** RHEL 6: 2.24.23-6
+
* Roundes vs square ctabfolder
−
** AIX, HP-UX, Solaris ? -- Oxygen will only focus on Linux, Windows, Mac
+
** Number of themes to be reduced
−
** Secondary Platforms: Not built on EF Hardware, but interested parties can contribute binaries
+
** Performance not being measurable
−
** Trying to support Platforms which can't move up to modern GTK at a similar pace as Linux is hard
+
** Agreement: add preference to switch the rounded vs
−
** '''AI Alex''' write up a message to the Community
+
** Agreement: when preference is available Square is default
−
* Lars: {{bug|486961}} extending the Eclipse Text Editor
+
* Windows theme update -
−
** Dani: Text Editor must remain unchanged, but feel free to provide a new different code editor
+
** Fix colors to match Windows 10
−
** https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=496114#c7
+
** GTK looks way more sane as more effort has been invested to keep it current
−
** Not against adding extension points ... but having the standard text editor adopt those is a no-go
+
** Don't set colors but use the colors from the OS theme is the recipe
−
* Dani: Build, and Hackathon
+
** Ugly white line on windows dark theme needs bugzilla open
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''June 28, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Alex
 
−
* Discussion about Language Server Protocol
 
−
** MS sponsoring hackathon in Zurich, Dani expected to go there
 
−
** The protocol has an Open Source license, but there is no Open Source Governance ... who owns the specification?
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''April 28, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, Lars
−
'''June 21, 2016''' -  
+
−
*
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
* PMC decided that the OS specific themes should be removed, https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=562227
−
'''June 14, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars
+
* Windows light theme should become better https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=551462
−
* McQ: '''Mattermost / Slack''' for communication
+
* Dani - This week is M2, no special freeze or testing but we will contribute our build from Friday to the simrel
−
** not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
+
* Databinding analyis was done by Jens Lindstroem and it looks good for an API compliant solution
−
* Lars: '''Master is Open'''
+
* Alex will prepare the information for cross that we will drop ibm icu from the SDK build
−
** Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
+
−
** Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
+
−
** Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes ({{bug|360703}}) is open to improve that)
+
−
** We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
+
−
* Lars: '''Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ?''' - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
+
−
* McQ: '''Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che''' (from [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ide-dev/ ide-dev] mailing list and {{bug|496114}})
+
−
** The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
+
−
** The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
+
−
*** People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
+
−
** The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
+
−
** How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
+
−
*** At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
+
−
*** But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
+
−
* Dani: '''What goes into the Neon Update Releases'''
+
−
** as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
+
−
** '''AI: Dani''' will prepare a note
+
−
* Dani: '''Using Sound in Eclipse'''
+
−
** Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see {{bug|496003}})
+
−
** Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
+
−
** Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
+
−
** McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so '''that''' should really be leveraged
+
−
** Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
+
−
** Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
+
−
** Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.
+
  
−
'''June 7, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex
 
−
* no topics
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''April 21, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars
−
'''May 31, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex
+
* Q: How do we deal with ICU removal from data binding?
−
* Dani: '''IP Log'''
+
** Need to follow standard API removal rules
−
** The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
+
*** Deprecate old API and offer new API
−
** In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
+
*** Remove deprecated API after 2 years
−
* Dani: '''Release Review'''
+
** Can we put the old stuff in a fragment that could be removed?
−
** Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
+
* Theming: rounded tabs versus square tabs ({{bug|562221}})
−
* Dani: '''Update Jetty to 3.9.3'''
+
** Should we offer it at all?
−
** Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
+
** Alex: Don’t increase the number of themes or options
−
* Dani: '''RC4 Status Update'''
+
** Lars: Square tabs are faster
−
** Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command
+
** If speed is significant, we should consider changing the default
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''May 24, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin
 
−
* Dani: '''IP Log Generator''' - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
 
−
* Dani: '''Release Review''' - Deadline next week (June 2)
 
−
* Dani: '''Deprecation Request from Brian'''
 
−
** Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
 
−
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date'''
 
−
** '''AGREEMENT''' to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
 
−
** Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
 
−
** Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
 
−
** This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
 
−
* Dani: '''Neon Status'''
 
−
** Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''April 14, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars
−
'''May 17, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
+
* Dani
−
* Dani: '''{{Bug|475184}} Neon Plan Update 2'''
+
** M1 shipped, no problems so far
−
** Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
+
** Using ECJ from M1 to build the SDK has some issues, there are people working on it
−
** SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
+
** 4.16 plan to be published this week
−
*** Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
+
* Unanimous decision to continue to use Zoom as usual
−
**** Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
+
−
*** Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
+
−
** Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
+
−
** '''AI Dani''' to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
+
−
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date''' - EMO: To be decided per project
+
−
** IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
+
−
** Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
+
−
*** gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
+
−
** Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
+
−
* Dani: '''Policy for Neon.Update Releases''' - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
+
−
** Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
+
−
** Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
+
−
** Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - '''decision''': discuss feature by feature at PMC
+
−
** Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
+
−
** In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
+
−
* Dani: '''Neon RC2 Builds Update'''
+
−
** Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
+
−
** Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
+
−
** GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
+
−
** Lars: {{bug|493477}} detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC
+
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''May 10, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
 
−
* Dani: '''Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases'''
 
−
** Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
 
−
* Martin: '''RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2'''
 
−
** GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
 
−
*** Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
 
−
** Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
 
−
*** Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
 
−
*** There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
 
−
*** Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
 
−
** Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
 
−
*** Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
 
−
*** Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''April 7, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars
−
'''May 3, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
+
* Dani
−
* [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02598.html Brian's request on the PMC list]
+
** Created [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_16.xml 4.16 plan]
−
** McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
+
** Created [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=561643 release record for 4.16]. Corresponding bug is {{bug|561643}}
−
** Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
+
** Sent note to add planning bugs for 4.16
−
** Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...  
+
** '''Please review and provide feedback if any'''
−
** McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
+
** After some infrastructure issues we have a good test build and currently things look good for M1 this week
−
** Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
+
* Alex seconded the infrastructure issues and missing test results
−
** '''ACTION''' McQ to -1 and argue why.
+
* ICU4J ({{bug|560312}}): we decided to remove it piece by piece from projects where possible and where someone is interested to do it. The ICU bundle itself will stay, and we will follow the API removal process when we are ready to remove it, i.e. no usage in the SDK anymore
  
−
* Alex: '''Update on Accessibility'''
 
−
** broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
 
−
** due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
 
−
** Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
 
−
*** and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
 
−
** Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''March 31, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, McQ, Tom, Lars
−
'''April 26, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
* Dani: Contacted the ICU4J owner. He updated {{bug|560312}}, PMC members will review the comment and we will discuss next week
−
* Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
+
* Dani: Planning bugs are created slowly for 4.16. Will send a reminder to the list to submit more. Started to work on plan and release record.
−
* Alex: '''Accessibility''' - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
+
−
** Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
+
−
** McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
+
−
* Alex: '''Platform.ui generification of project'''
+
−
** Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
+
−
** McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
+
−
** Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
+
−
** Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
+
−
** '''ACTION Alex''' to prepare a message for review and then send that.
+
−
* Lars: '''Copyright discussion'''
+
−
** Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
+
−
** The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
+
−
* Dani: '''Update on FEEP'''
+
−
** Paul not reached out yet
+
−
** A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
+
−
* Dani: '''Update on M7'''
+
−
** Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
+
−
** Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full
+
  
−
<br/>
 
−
'''April 19, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)
 
−
* Dani: '''IP Stuff''' on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
 
−
* Dani: '''FEEP''' discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
 
−
** General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
 
−
** Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
 
−
** Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
 
−
* Dani: '''All PMC please review and +1 API requests''' when you find time
 
−
** McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
 
−
** '''AGREEMENT''' on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
 
−
* '''Reviews vs. Features'''
 
−
** Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora
 
  
−
<br/>
+
'''March 24, 2020''' - Alex, McQ, Tom
−
'''April 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex
+
* Dani: Regrets for the call (Eclipse Board call)
−
* Lars: '''Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement'''
+
* Alex: status updates
−
** [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=485257#c13 bug 485257_c13] EMO: All information is in the git repos
+
** JDT merged Java 14 in master
−
** McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
+
** Build instability due to infra status
−
** Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
+
* Alex: OSGi R8 modules support - what is it?
−
** '''ACTION''' McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
+
** Tom: ability to represent external content in the OSGi framework
 +
** Alex: Will it allow shipping eclipse plugins as JPMS modules to ease native library handling?
 +
** Tom: Haven't found any clear example how JPMS handles this, so good example is needed before could be looked further.
  
−
* Lars: '''{{bug|490012}} Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE'''
 
−
** Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
 
−
** Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
 
−
** Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
 
−
** '''DECISION''' to get rid of the strict error per project.
 
  
−
* Dani: '''{{bug|475934}} API Change on model processing order'''
+
'''March 17, 2020''' - Alex, McQ, Lars Tom, Dani
−
** Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
+
* ICU4J use still under discussion
−
** McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
+
** Dani still to contact ICU4J owner
−
** McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
+
* Shipping Java 14 and 4.15 this week
−
*** Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
+
* Java 14 work will be merged to master on Wednesday
−
*** Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
+
−
*** Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
+
−
** Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
+
−
** '''DECISION''' to allow making the change and announce widely.
+
  
−
* Dani: '''FEEP and EMO Hiring Update'''
 
−
** EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
 
−
** Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
 
−
** Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
 
  
−
* Dani: '''IDE-dev proposal'''
+
'''March 10, 2020''' - Lars, Tom
−
** People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
+
* Dani: Regrets for the call (vacation)
−
** Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
+
* ICU4J use still under discussion
−
*** McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
+
** if we can be confident that performance and language support are of *similar* quality, we should work towards removing icu4j because it reduces complexity for us, in addition allowing for smaller RCP apps
−
*** OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.
+
** note that we already have mixed usage -- some components using icu4j and some not
 +
* to clarify approvals that require a project lead can be done by a project lead for any of the Eclipse Project subprojects
 +
** as usual, the project lead should take care to understand the change and its implications before approving
 +
* we will move to Jetty 10 (and thus to Java 11) for the fall release
 +
* RH will be leading releng for 4.16
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''April 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
 
−
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
 
−
** Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
 
−
** Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
 
−
** Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
 
−
* Dani: '''Solaris 32-bit'''
 
−
** Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
 
−
** Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
 
−
*** Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
 
−
** McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
 
−
* Dani: '''New Solstice Welcome'''
 
−
** Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
 
−
** Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
 
−
** McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
 
−
* Alex: '''FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)'''
 
−
** "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
 
−
*** Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
 
−
*** It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
 
−
*** McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
 
−
** Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
 
−
*** '''AI Dani''' send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
 
−
*** '''AI Martin''' compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
 
−
** Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
 
−
** Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
 
−
*** McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
 
−
*** Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
 
−
*** McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal '''Transparency''' on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
 
−
*** McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
 
−
**** Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: '''THIS''' is what the FEEP should have adressed !
 
−
** Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
 
−
** Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
 
−
*** McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
 
−
** Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
 
−
* Lars '''Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy'''
 
−
** Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''March 3, 2020''' - no meeting
−
'''March 29, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex
+
−
* Lars: '''PDE Build in Maintenance''' - Officially state this ?
+
−
** PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
+
−
** Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
+
−
** McQ: '''DECISION''' Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
+
−
* Lars: '''Integrate more projects into Platform UI?'''
+
−
** Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
+
−
** Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
+
−
** Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
+
−
** '''DECISION''' to not merge projects at this time.
+
−
* Lars: '''Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list'''
+
−
** McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
+
−
** Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
+
−
** Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. '''AI Dani''' notify mailing list.
+
−
* Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
+
−
** Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"
+
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''March 22, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
 
−
* Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
 
−
* Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
 
−
* Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
 
−
* Discussion about Che
 
−
** McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
 
−
** Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
 
−
** McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''February 25, 2020''' - Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex
−
'''March 15, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Dani: Created and sent Endgame plan
−
* Dani: '''Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)'''
+
* Dani: Submitted IP Log: https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21716
−
* Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
+
* Alex: SWT on Linux in 4.16 to require Gtk 3.20 to simplify CSS machinery and prep for GTK4
−
* McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
+
* Alex: ICU4J removal
−
* Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
+
** Dani: ICU4J reacts faster to changes and supports more features (new Japanese era)
−
* Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
+
** Alex: It might but Eclipse fails at keeping up so current version shipped with Eclipse misses features that the JVM supports (latest CLDR)
−
** Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
+
** Dani: Asks for a proof that JVM is better that ICU
−
** Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
+
** Alex: Which metrics to be measured?
−
** Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
+
** Dani: Will check with ICU guy about that and whether it's still needed
−
* VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
+
−
** Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
+
−
** Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)
+
  
−
'''March 8, 2016''' - No call
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''February 18, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom
−
'''March 1, 2016''' - Dani, Martin
+
* Dani: need to work on IP Log, Release Review and Endgame Plan
−
* Dani OOO next week
+
* Lars: ECF - will we update to the latest
−
* Alex: '''{{bug|179924}} SSH-agent authentication''' 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
+
** Alex: is in the works. Scott needs to provide us with the update
−
** Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
+
* Tom: Found an issue with JUnit 5 launching but not reproducible with latest I-build
−
** Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
+
** Dani: File a bug if you have steps or contact Noopur directly
−
* EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.
+
* Dani: Update on X-builds and tags
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''February 23, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex
 
−
* Dani: '''Mars.2 is on track'''
 
−
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
 
−
** EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
 
−
* Dani: '''Update on Welcome'''
 
−
** Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
 
−
* McQ: '''Scrollbars on Windows''' and their appearance
 
−
** Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
 
−
** Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
 
−
** McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
 
−
** Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
 
−
** Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
 
−
** Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''February 11, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom
 +
* Alex: Infrastructure is very instable, how can be complain to the foundation?
 +
** Alex: Eclipse foundation server team not responding to complains and seem unclear about the source of the issue
 +
** Discussion about makes a stronger statement to the foundation about the bad state of the infrastructure
 +
** McQ: Suggestion to send a note as PMC to the foundation
 +
** Dani: First we should ask webmaster why this takes so long
 +
** Alex: Marketplace infrastructure is also in bad state
 +
*** Dead marketplace entries are not getting removed https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=550713
 +
*** No clean contact person from the foundation
 +
*** Marketplace is also not Open Source hence we cannot fix thing ourself.
  
−
'''February 16, 2016''' - Alex, Dani, Martin
+
-> Alex to contact Denis and to cc the other PMC members
−
* no topics
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''February 4, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Tom
 +
* OSGi Spec talk
 +
** OSGi R8 Core will be done this year.
 +
** May be ready for 4.16, but no rush if it slips to 4.17
 +
** Will not put anything in master until spec is final which makes it more likely to be 4.17
  
−
'''February 9, 2016''' - Alex, McQ, Dani
 
−
* Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
 
−
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|466370}} Welcome Screen redesign
 
−
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|472614}} Smart Project Importer
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''January 28, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars
 +
* Ongoing saga of the EPP packages
 +
** Markus did it last week
 +
** PMC discussed possible futures here, but no conclusions
 +
** Discussion also happening at the board level
 +
* M2 is this week
 +
* Pushing for JUnit updates for M2
  
−
'''February 2, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
 
−
* Dani: '''Foundation Hires''' - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
 
−
* Dani: '''Neon M5''' went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
 
−
* Dani: '''CQ Deadline''' on Feb.12 for Neon
 
−
* Dani: {{bug|486647}} for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
 
−
** With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
 
−
** Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
 
−
*** Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
 
−
*** We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
 
−
*** Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
 
−
** Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''January 21, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, Lars
−
'''January 26, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars
+
* Dani: EPP builds still missing, Dani contacted Markus Knauer to update EPP for M1, release train is at risk if nobody steps up
−
* Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
+
* New test failures are investigated, action plan is to restart the test, if they still fails restart the machine and if the tests still fail, see if a revert fixes the test
−
* Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
+
−
* Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track
+
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''January 19, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
 
−
* Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
 
−
* Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
 
−
** Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
 
−
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''PDE Build''' - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
 
−
** Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement '''in the Platform'''
 
−
** Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
 
−
** Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
 
−
** Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
 
−
* Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
 
−
** Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
 
−
* SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
 
−
* Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
 
−
** Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
 
−
* Martin: '''Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?'''
 
−
** Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
 
−
** Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
 
−
*** Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
 
−
** Debian or SuSE should be OK;
 
−
** Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''January 14, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom
−
'''January 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Dani: Switch to SUSE Enterprise 15, team is in favor to drop 12
−
* Dani: '''Upstaffing the PMC'''
+
* Dani: Plan updated to remove Windows 7
−
** Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
+
* Alex: Felix Dependencies for SCR done
−
* Dani: '''Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng''' - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
+
** confirm fix for {{bug|544571}}
−
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''Remove PDE Build from our drops?'''
+
** releng disruptions during update, but recovered.  More disruptions expected as we update dependencies for March release.
−
** Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
+
** broken builds, need to get a list of issues.  Seems to be more infrastructure issues.  Need to report back to the foundation. Example, the signing issue that broken the respin.
−
** McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
+
* Some discussion about gitlab option at foundation. {{bug|537913}}
−
** Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
+
** What happens to gerrit work flow for review?
−
* Dani: {{bug|485257}} '''Copyright Policy Change''' - waiting on EMO/Legal input
+
** Would dropping bugzilla happen or can we migrate all issues?
−
* Alex: '''Updating SWT to Java7'''
+
** Without migration it is a no-go for us
−
* McQ: '''Travel for EclipseCon'''
+
** Currently no plans to move Eclipse project to gitlab at this time.
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''January 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani
 
−
* Dani: '''PMC Membership'''
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''January 7, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars
 +
* Dani: Created initial 4.15 plan - please have a look
 +
* Dani: Created release record for 4.15
 +
* Dani: Sent a note to teams to create their 4.15 plan items/bugs
 +
* Dani: Do we want to drop support for Windows 7 (remove from Target Environments only)
 +
** Unanimous decision: Yes
 +
* Dani: Discuss (again, see below) resolution for stale bugs
 +
** We want to ask the webmaster that stale bugs are directly closed. ACTION ITEM for Lars
 +
** We will only auto/mass close existing stale bugs with notification turned off
 +
* Change rules about x-internal exports ({{bug|553709}})
 +
** Decision:
 +
** - Newly added internal packages should not use x-internal exports unless there are very good reasons
 +
** - For existing packages the x-internal export can be removed with PMC approval
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2019 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2019]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2018 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2018]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2017 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2017]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]

Revision as of 11:09, 21 April 2021

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

Mar 31, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars

  • Java 16 jar signing issue
    • Tom wants to replace equinox implementation with builtin Jar file implementation so changes don't have to be done in Equinox on each release
  • JSP/Jetty story in IDE
    • Do we still need same functionality?
    • Alex - get out of the business for help system. Dependencies (jetty, lucene) generate more releng work than we can handle.
    • McQ - url for plugin help would be simplest and open it in browser
    • Any change (e.g. JSP removal) has to go through standard deprecation period, announcements and etc.
    • Alex to initiate communication on longer term plan with Holger who works on improvements to help system lately


Mar 31, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex

  • PMC call time
    • Overlaps with Planning council call and both Tom and Alex can't make both

-> Decision: Skip PMC call every first Wed of the month

  • Webpage Hugo migration
    • Recommended by Eclipse Foundation and active contributor to do the conversion
    • Concerns about mixing old and new content are raised but they don't look severe
    • Supported by PMC

-> Tom to handle initial communication on behalf of PMC

  • Planning process relevance
    • the planning process is not providing the detailed and usable plans from the past
    • not a pain point as fewer people participate it but looks like useless exercise quite often
    • to be discussed....


Mar 24, 2021 - Tom, Alex, Lars

  • Pack 200 - API removal in 2 years - 2023-06
    • Should we turn off all pack 200 features in one year, make it consistent across all Java versions.
    • 2022-06 - disable pack200 for all Java versions. Calling the deprecated API will be a no-op
  • Pack 200 - When can we stop generating? Agreed on 2021-09 release. We should set the precedence as early as possible to stop producing pack200 artifacts.
  • split packages
    • Causing issues with mandatory directive and p2 bug 360659 and with tycho.
    • Currently tycho requires some work arounds for usage of split packages
    • Can we work to get rid of split packages. We agreed to investigate the work and move to combine split packages if possible.


Mar 17, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars

  • SWT Chromium support
    • Still no recent version of Chromium with security patches
    • Will be dropped in M1 (if no recent version is provided in the next weeks or if no one steps up)
  • Pack 2000 support
    • not supported anymore as of Java 14
    • will be deprecated and marked for removal
  • Moving Eclipse repos to Github
    • Moving to Github might simplify and therefore increase contributions
    • Huge amount of work in releng
    • Potentially we should all subprojects at the same time
    • We check if the foundation plans to move everything to Gitlab


Mar 10, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex

  • Moving to Jetty 10 for next release
  • platform-dev discussion about move to GitHub
    • conversation is useful, but would take a lot of planning
    • lots of current rel eng dependencies on Gerrit
      • need more community help for rel eng issues
    • a massive amount of history in our Bugzilla
  • release record and proto-plan created for 4.20


Febr 17, 2021 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • Looks good for 4.19 release
  • Mac ARM has to wait for the 4.20 release, as the team fights multiple issues
  • Top-level project page can currently only be edited by Tom, other PMC members also have access to it https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/eclipse/who


Dec 15, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • 06. January 2021 is the next meeting
  • How can PMC increase the awareness of the project leads / committers?
    • Maybe invite the project leads once per month to the PMC meeting?
    • Discussion how we can increase the JDT community


Dec 01, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • RC1 is out; final touches on RC2
  • How can we remove the confusion about "e4" project?
    • e4 has always been intended to be a sandbox project where people could try things that are experimental or are on a longer timeline
    • Should be renamed to make it clear this isn't about leftovers from the Eclipse 4.0 work (maybe "eNext"?)
    • Should clean up repos
      • Remove repos that just hold code that has already moved to the platform
      • Remove repos that are no longer getting any investment
      • Work toward moving things that are active/useful into the platform (e.g. "spies" to PDE)

Nov 24, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

  • PMC is considering the potential of an SDK / IDE working group at the foundation
  • Discussion Do we need the extra releng work to create p2 repositories for milestones?
    • Lot of extra work and sometimes goes wrong
    • All I-Builds are anyway available

-> PMC decided to drop the additional p2 repository -> Alex will be sending out an email about it to inform potential users of the special p2 repos

    • Discussion about the purpose of the milestone week at all

-> Decision not to change the process for now, as the additional testing and focus has also some benefits


Nov 17, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Release 4.18 winding down
    • SWT churn for Linux and Mac Big Sur
    • Does not appear the Foundation got the new Mac Hardware for testing
  • Planning Council discussion
    • Dani filled the Eclipse TLP representation role on the Council
    • Alex can take the lead to that role
    • Alex will look to find a replacement for the tools TLP representative


Nov 10, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Still dealing with the loss of Dani
  • Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
  • Stabilizing for M3
  • Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
  • Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency


Nov 10, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Still dealing with the loss of Dani
  • Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
  • Stabilizing for M3
  • Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
  • Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency


Nov 3, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • Dani!


Oct 27, 2020 - Lars, Tom

  • Nothing to discuss


Oct 20, 2020 - Lars, Tom, McQ, Alex

  • EclipseCon is running virtual this week
  • Agreement that removal of API should only before M1 release
  • Proof of concept for using Java 11 http client instead of ECF should be done
  • if we remove ECF we should send out an announcement and keep it for at least one release
  • Decision to start using the @Deprecated(since = "x.y.z", forRemoval = true) for planned API removals if the bundle can use Java 11, wiki for API removal should be updated

Oct 6, 2020 - Dani, Tom, McQ, Alex

  • M1 under control
  • Release train materials being worked
  • Moved to Jetty 9.4.32
  • ECF — need to simplify how we consume http client
    • could use Java11 http client instead, but this would require significant development effort
    • Tom/Alex to take an initial stab at understanding scope + open bugs
  • Proposal: remove API once a year
    • Given the already long time for consumers to respond to API deprecation, PMC decision was to continue to allow API removal in any release. It was felt that the incremental benefit was outweighed by the need to be able to move forward quickly.


Sep 15, 2020 - Dani, Tom, Lars, Alex

  • M1
    • Next week M1 - Alex to send reminder note
    • Holiday in India on this Friday
  • Y-Build for Java 16
    • Builds should be fixed and can continue to progress on Java 16
  • SCR upgrade
    • Some issues with EBR maven plugin
    • causes versions to be incorrectly represented in p2 meta-data
    • Orbit needs a new lead, will end up impacting us if no replacement found
  • Tycho being updated to be able to OSGi-fy JARs if they are not there yet.
    • How to use this for a feature?
    • Behaves much like Orbit to produce new versions of the artifact.
    • Could be the solution for Orbit needs.


Sep 22, 2020 - no meeting


Sep 15, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Lars, Tom, Alex

  • Dani: Java 15 released today
    • 4.17 release together with Marketplace for Java 15 support are ready
    • JDT Java 15 to be merged this week
  • Dani: Zoom call with password unless each of the PMC members can be added as meeting owner so can start the meeting
  • Alex: 4.18 stream opened and releng work calmed down
  • Lars: Cleanup of migration guides
    • Dani: this will break existing links, so existing content have to stay unless someone does all the work to fix our plans and other links that will break
    • McQ: help system needs work to focus on the latest stuff/release, what should we do to achieve it? How can we better shape the help system now that having all content ofline is not a requirement?
    • Alex: do not ship migration, n&n,etc. but rather point to website url from help system
    • Alex: this would also reduce manual work for releng (+1 by Dani)
    • ACTION ITEM: Alex to work on n&n in help system to use the website content directly as a proof of concept for further work


Sep 01, 2020 - Lars, Alex

  • RC1 is fine, no additional requests for RC2


August 25, 2020 - Tom, Lars, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: sent out Endgame plan, RC1 this week, vacation starting on Friday
  • Alex informed about Red Hat's Releng participation


August 18, 2020 - Tom, Lars, Dani

  • Dani to create and send out Endgame plan
  • Looking into Mac Big Sur launching issue (bug 565913)


August 11, 2020 - Alex, Dani, Tom, McQ

  • Eclipse Foundation is getting access to an Apple Silicon dev kit
    • Will make it available to SWT devs via cloud connectivity
  • M3 next week; RC1 following week
  • ARM64 port seems to be working fine, except for browser widget (still investigating)


August 4, 2020 - Alex, Lars, Dani

  • no topics to discuss


July 28, 2020 - Tom, McQ

  • no topics to discuss


July 21, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars

  • no topics to discuss
  • Alex on vacation next week


July 14, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars

  • Project status
    • M1 shipped last week
    • Draft Plan for 4.17 posted - additional fixes done after review
    • Release record created for 4.17
  • CQ process discussion - new clearly defined process
    • Note sent to Wayne to get clarifications on handbook, Wayne has made some edits in response. We need to review latest handbook
    • Should simplify IP clearance for third party libraries
      • If a bundle is approved by clearly defined it can be added with no CQ as long as the mavin URLs/coordinates are vetted by clearly defined
      • Orbit should soon automate the linking to clearly defined approvals for bundles added. Currently a work in progress by Roland at Orbit.
      • The ratings system at clearly defined is not used. Only the license check is used.
    • PMC needs to review latest handbook on the topic ... As of now we should move forward with the new process
      • If concerns arise later we will need to take actions to correct
  • bug 565066 - Needs some attention to the solution and testing
    • attempt to make incremental installation be consistent with resolution of a fresh install (or -clean).


June 23, 2020 - no call

June 16, 2020 - no call

June 9, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom

  • McQ: message to guide the community got no public reactions so far
  • Dani: bug reports needed for JDT, do we have PMC agreement?
    • Alex: For me that was approved after jdt-dev vote ended
    • AGREED
  • Dani: RC2 done, no major bug so far but still monitoriing for regressions
  • Alex: 4.17 stream open, not finished until 4.16 if final so all apichecks and etc. are in proper shape
  • Tom: OSGi R8 merge after stabilizing 4.17 stream
  • Tom: OSGi Move to Java 8 right after that
  • Dani: Switch to Java 11 as min version as it was already announced to happen in 4.17 stream shortly


June 2, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom

  • Inactive committer clean up for Eclipse project for the 4.16 release started via bug 563720
  • Infrastructure is really slow for RC2 release
  • RC2 bug queue is really low, one restart issue which is currently under investigated by Tom
  • Discussion about the JDT cleanup e-mails
    • Need to ensure community discussions are positive and respectful.
    • Expectations here should come from leadership
      • LibreOffice did this in the past to great success.
    • Committers can vote against bugs but the tone of the discussion is important.
    • PMC will respond via the public mailing list within a week


May 26, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ


May 19, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Dani: Issues with the build infrastructure, might endanger M3, the team got a working build for testing
  • Dani: PowerPC hardware was donated so builds are starting again for it
  • Alex: CQ process might get simpler based on blog post from Wayne, Alex to test and validate with Wayne https://blogs.eclipse.org/post/wayne-beaton/revising-eclipse-ip-due-diligence-process-third-party-content
  • Lars: Question if we want to allow "EGit" commit style in Eclipse top-level project. Agreement was to allow it but not to recommend it or enforce it


May 12, 2020 - Tom, Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex

  • Update to themes
    • Preference being added for choosing square vs round tabs
    • Intern from Alex's team is taking up the work
    • Update to Windows theme to be Windows 10
  • Alex brings up changes to CQ requirements. Need to read up on Wayne's post about this and discuss in a future call if we can change how the project does CQs
  • Who is running dark theme?
    • Need someone to cover test of Dark Theme on Linux. Lars indicated that he runs with Linux Dark Theme and can help in coverage
    • Dani described the various members of his team that cover the rest of the platforms
  • Request to contribute to article on what is new in the release for a June newsletter. Lars to contribute improvements in the Dark theme. General request to others to contribute anything else.
  • ppc64le build troubles
    • Been having ongoing issues with the university hosted ppc64le machine we use to build support for ppc64le
    • Currently the ppc64le build has been disabled
    • Need to find alternatives
      • May be able to use something from IBM public cloud
      • Other suggestions: McQ - look towards using emulation, Alex - could do cross-compilation
    • Need to plan if ppc 10 will supported in the future


May 5, 2020 - Dani, Alex, Lars, McQ, Tom

  • M2 shipped on time
    • Dark theme rebuild for M2 due to severe issue
  • ICU4J removal note sent
    • Lars - 2 years notice period needed?
    • Agreement: it's needed as we expose it in API and still have usages in internals so we need time to clean up ourself
    • EPPs cleanup - some blocked by JDT still using it, some by WTP, Rust probably the first one to be icu4j clean
  • Roundes vs square ctabfolder
    • Number of themes to be reduced
    • Performance not being measurable
    • Agreement: add preference to switch the rounded vs
    • Agreement: when preference is available Square is default
  • Windows theme update -
    • Fix colors to match Windows 10
    • GTK looks way more sane as more effort has been invested to keep it current
    • Don't set colors but use the colors from the OS theme is the recipe
    • Ugly white line on windows dark theme needs bugzilla open


April 28, 2020 - Dani, Alex, Lars


April 21, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • Q: How do we deal with ICU removal from data binding?
    • Need to follow standard API removal rules
      • Deprecate old API and offer new API
      • Remove deprecated API after 2 years
    • Can we put the old stuff in a fragment that could be removed?
  • Theming: rounded tabs versus square tabs (bug 562221)
    • Should we offer it at all?
    • Alex: Don’t increase the number of themes or options
    • Lars: Square tabs are faster
    • If speed is significant, we should consider changing the default


April 14, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • Dani
    • M1 shipped, no problems so far
    • Using ECJ from M1 to build the SDK has some issues, there are people working on it
    • 4.16 plan to be published this week
  • Unanimous decision to continue to use Zoom as usual


April 7, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • Dani
    • Created 4.16 plan
    • Created release record for 4.16. Corresponding bug is bug 561643
    • Sent note to add planning bugs for 4.16
    • Please review and provide feedback if any
    • After some infrastructure issues we have a good test build and currently things look good for M1 this week
  • Alex seconded the infrastructure issues and missing test results
  • ICU4J (bug 560312): we decided to remove it piece by piece from projects where possible and where someone is interested to do it. The ICU bundle itself will stay, and we will follow the API removal process when we are ready to remove it, i.e. no usage in the SDK anymore


March 31, 2020 - Dani, Alex, McQ, Tom, Lars

  • Dani: Contacted the ICU4J owner. He updated bug 560312, PMC members will review the comment and we will discuss next week
  • Dani: Planning bugs are created slowly for 4.16. Will send a reminder to the list to submit more. Started to work on plan and release record.


March 24, 2020 - Alex, McQ, Tom

  • Dani: Regrets for the call (Eclipse Board call)
  • Alex: status updates
    • JDT merged Java 14 in master
    • Build instability due to infra status
  • Alex: OSGi R8 modules support - what is it?
    • Tom: ability to represent external content in the OSGi framework
    • Alex: Will it allow shipping eclipse plugins as JPMS modules to ease native library handling?
    • Tom: Haven't found any clear example how JPMS handles this, so good example is needed before could be looked further.


March 17, 2020 - Alex, McQ, Lars Tom, Dani

  • ICU4J use still under discussion
    • Dani still to contact ICU4J owner
  • Shipping Java 14 and 4.15 this week
  • Java 14 work will be merged to master on Wednesday


March 10, 2020 - Lars, Tom

  • Dani: Regrets for the call (vacation)
  • ICU4J use still under discussion
    • if we can be confident that performance and language support are of *similar* quality, we should work towards removing icu4j because it reduces complexity for us, in addition allowing for smaller RCP apps
    • note that we already have mixed usage -- some components using icu4j and some not
  • to clarify approvals that require a project lead can be done by a project lead for any of the Eclipse Project subprojects
    • as usual, the project lead should take care to understand the change and its implications before approving
  • we will move to Jetty 10 (and thus to Java 11) for the fall release
  • RH will be leading releng for 4.16


March 3, 2020 - no meeting


February 25, 2020 - Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex

  • Dani: Created and sent Endgame plan
  • Dani: Submitted IP Log: https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21716
  • Alex: SWT on Linux in 4.16 to require Gtk 3.20 to simplify CSS machinery and prep for GTK4
  • Alex: ICU4J removal
    • Dani: ICU4J reacts faster to changes and supports more features (new Japanese era)
    • Alex: It might but Eclipse fails at keeping up so current version shipped with Eclipse misses features that the JVM supports (latest CLDR)
    • Dani: Asks for a proof that JVM is better that ICU
    • Alex: Which metrics to be measured?
    • Dani: Will check with ICU guy about that and whether it's still needed


February 18, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom

  • Dani: need to work on IP Log, Release Review and Endgame Plan
  • Lars: ECF - will we update to the latest
    • Alex: is in the works. Scott needs to provide us with the update
  • Tom: Found an issue with JUnit 5 launching but not reproducible with latest I-build
    • Dani: File a bug if you have steps or contact Noopur directly
  • Dani: Update on X-builds and tags


February 11, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom

  • Alex: Infrastructure is very instable, how can be complain to the foundation?
    • Alex: Eclipse foundation server team not responding to complains and seem unclear about the source of the issue
    • Discussion about makes a stronger statement to the foundation about the bad state of the infrastructure
    • McQ: Suggestion to send a note as PMC to the foundation
    • Dani: First we should ask webmaster why this takes so long
    • Alex: Marketplace infrastructure is also in bad state

-> Alex to contact Denis and to cc the other PMC members

February 4, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Tom

  • OSGi Spec talk
    • OSGi R8 Core will be done this year.
    • May be ready for 4.16, but no rush if it slips to 4.17
    • Will not put anything in master until spec is final which makes it more likely to be 4.17


January 28, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars

  • Ongoing saga of the EPP packages
    • Markus did it last week
    • PMC discussed possible futures here, but no conclusions
    • Discussion also happening at the board level
  • M2 is this week
  • Pushing for JUnit updates for M2


January 21, 2020 - Dani, Tom, Lars

  • Dani: EPP builds still missing, Dani contacted Markus Knauer to update EPP for M1, release train is at risk if nobody steps up
  • New test failures are investigated, action plan is to restart the test, if they still fails restart the machine and if the tests still fail, see if a revert fixes the test


January 14, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom

  • Dani: Switch to SUSE Enterprise 15, team is in favor to drop 12
  • Dani: Plan updated to remove Windows 7
  • Alex: Felix Dependencies for SCR done
    • confirm fix for bug 544571
    • releng disruptions during update, but recovered. More disruptions expected as we update dependencies for March release.
    • broken builds, need to get a list of issues. Seems to be more infrastructure issues. Need to report back to the foundation. Example, the signing issue that broken the respin.
  • Some discussion about gitlab option at foundation. bug 537913
    • What happens to gerrit work flow for review?
    • Would dropping bugzilla happen or can we migrate all issues?
    • Without migration it is a no-go for us
    • Currently no plans to move Eclipse project to gitlab at this time.


January 7, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars

  • Dani: Created initial 4.15 plan - please have a look
  • Dani: Created release record for 4.15
  • Dani: Sent a note to teams to create their 4.15 plan items/bugs
  • Dani: Do we want to drop support for Windows 7 (remove from Target Environments only)
    • Unanimous decision: Yes
  • Dani: Discuss (again, see below) resolution for stale bugs
    • We want to ask the webmaster that stale bugs are directly closed. ACTION ITEM for Lars
    • We will only auto/mass close existing stale bugs with notification turned off
  • Change rules about x-internal exports (bug 553709)
    • Decision:
    • - Newly added internal packages should not use x-internal exports unless there are very good reasons
    • - For existing packages the x-internal export can be removed with PMC approval

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