Revision as of 11:09, 31 March 2021

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

Mar 31, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex

PMC call time
- Overlaps with Planning council call and both Tom and Alex can't make both

-> Decision: Skip PMC call every first Wed of the month

Webpage Hugo migration
- Recommended by Eclipse Foundation and active contributor to do the conversion
- Concerns about mixing old and new content are raised but they don't look severe
- Supported by PMC

-> Tom to handle initial communication on behalf of PMC

Planning process relevance
- the planning process is not providing the detailed and usable plans from the past
- not a pain point as fewer people participate it but looks like useless exercise quite often
- to be discussed....

Mar 24, 2021 - Tom, Alex, Lars

Pack 200 - API removal in 2 years - 2023-06
- Should we turn off all pack 200 features in one year, make it consistent across all Java versions.
- 2022-06 - disable pack200 for all Java versions. Calling the deprecated API will be a no-op

Pack 200 - When can we stop generating? Agreed on 2021-09 release. We should set the precedence as early as possible to stop producing pack200 artifacts.

split packages
- Causing issues with mandatory directive and p2 bug 360659 and with tycho.
- Currently tycho requires some work arounds for usage of split packages
- Can we work to get rid of split packages. We agreed to investigate the work and move to combine split packages if possible.

Mar 17, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars

SWT Chromium support
- Still no recent version of Chromium with security patches
- Will be dropped in M1 (if no recent version is provided in the next weeks or if no one steps up)

Pack 2000 support
- not supported anymore as of Java 14
- will be deprecated and marked for removal

Moving Eclipse repos to Github
- Moving to Github might simplify and therefore increase contributions
- Huge amount of work in releng
- Potentially we should all subprojects at the same time
- We check if the foundation plans to move everything to Gitlab

Mar 10, 2021 - McQ, Tom, Alex

Moving to Jetty 10 for next release
platform-dev discussion about move to GitHub
- conversation is useful, but would take a lot of planning
- lots of current rel eng dependencies on Gerrit
  - need more community help for rel eng issues
- a massive amount of history in our Bugzilla
release record and proto-plan created for 4.20

Febr 17, 2021 - Lars, Alex, McQ

Looks good for 4.19 release
Mac ARM has to wait for the 4.20 release, as the team fights multiple issues
Top-level project page can currently only be edited by Tom, other PMC members also have access to it https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/eclipse/who

Dec 15, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

06. January 2021 is the next meeting
How can PMC increase the awareness of the project leads / committers?
- Maybe invite the project leads once per month to the PMC meeting?
- Discussion how we can increase the JDT community

Dec 01, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

RC1 is out; final touches on RC2
How can we remove the confusion about "e4" project?
- e4 has always been intended to be a sandbox project where people could try things that are experimental or are on a longer timeline
- Should be renamed to make it clear this isn't about leftovers from the Eclipse 4.0 work (maybe "eNext"?)
- Should clean up repos
  - Remove repos that just hold code that has already moved to the platform
  - Remove repos that are no longer getting any investment
  - Work toward moving things that are active/useful into the platform (e.g. "spies" to PDE)

Nov 24, 2020 - Lars, Alex, McQ

PMC is considering the potential of an SDK / IDE working group at the foundation

Discussion Do we need the extra releng work to create p2 repositories for milestones?
- Lot of extra work and sometimes goes wrong
- All I-Builds are anyway available

-> PMC decided to drop the additional p2 repository -> Alex will be sending out an email about it to inform potential users of the special p2 repos

- Discussion about the purpose of the milestone week at all

-> Decision not to change the process for now, as the additional testing and focus has also some benefits

Nov 17, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

Release 4.18 winding down
- SWT churn for Linux and Mac Big Sur
- Does not appear the Foundation got the new Mac Hardware for testing
Planning Council discussion
- Dani filled the Eclipse TLP representation role on the Council
- Alex can take the lead to that role
- Alex will look to find a replacement for the tools TLP representative

Nov 10, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

Still dealing with the loss of Dani
Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
Stabilizing for M3
Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency

Nov 10, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

Still dealing with the loss of Dani
Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
Stabilizing for M3
Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency

Nov 3, 2020 - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ

Dani!

Oct 27, 2020 - Lars, Tom

Nothing to discuss

Oct 20, 2020 - Lars, Tom, McQ, Alex

EclipseCon is running virtual this week
Agreement that removal of API should only before M1 release
Proof of concept for using Java 11 http client instead of ECF should be done
if we remove ECF we should send out an announcement and keep it for at least one release
Decision to start using the @Deprecated(since = "x.y.z", forRemoval = true) for planned API removals if the bundle can use Java 11, wiki for API removal should be updated

Oct 6, 2020 - Dani, Tom, McQ, Alex

M1 under control
Release train materials being worked
Moved to Jetty 9.4.32
ECF — need to simplify how we consume http client
- could use Java11 http client instead, but this would require significant development effort
- Tom/Alex to take an initial stab at understanding scope + open bugs
Proposal: remove API once a year
- Given the already long time for consumers to respond to API deprecation, PMC decision was to continue to allow API removal in any release. It was felt that the incremental benefit was outweighed by the need to be able to move forward quickly.

Sep 15, 2020 - Dani, Tom, Lars, Alex

M1
- Next week M1 - Alex to send reminder note
- Holiday in India on this Friday

Y-Build for Java 16
- Builds should be fixed and can continue to progress on Java 16

SCR upgrade
- Some issues with EBR maven plugin
- causes versions to be incorrectly represented in p2 meta-data
- Orbit needs a new lead, will end up impacting us if no replacement found

Tycho being updated to be able to OSGi-fy JARs if they are not there yet.
- How to use this for a feature?
- Behaves much like Orbit to produce new versions of the artifact.
- Could be the solution for Orbit needs.

Sep 22, 2020 - no meeting

Sep 15, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Lars, Tom, Alex

Dani: Java 15 released today
- 4.17 release together with Marketplace for Java 15 support are ready
- JDT Java 15 to be merged this week
Dani: Zoom call with password unless each of the PMC members can be added as meeting owner so can start the meeting
Alex: 4.18 stream opened and releng work calmed down
Lars: Cleanup of migration guides
- Dani: this will break existing links, so existing content have to stay unless someone does all the work to fix our plans and other links that will break
- McQ: help system needs work to focus on the latest stuff/release, what should we do to achieve it? How can we better shape the help system now that having all content ofline is not a requirement?
- Alex: do not ship migration, n&n,etc. but rather point to website url from help system
- Alex: this would also reduce manual work for releng (+1 by Dani)
- ACTION ITEM: Alex to work on n&n in help system to use the website content directly as a proof of concept for further work

Sep 01, 2020 - Lars, Alex

RC1 is fine, no additional requests for RC2

August 25, 2020 - Tom, Lars, Alex, Dani

Dani: sent out Endgame plan, RC1 this week, vacation starting on Friday
Alex informed about Red Hat's Releng participation

August 18, 2020 - Tom, Lars, Dani

Dani to create and send out Endgame plan
Looking into Mac Big Sur launching issue (bug 565913)

August 11, 2020 - Alex, Dani, Tom, McQ

Eclipse Foundation is getting access to an Apple Silicon dev kit
- Will make it available to SWT devs via cloud connectivity
M3 next week; RC1 following week
ARM64 port seems to be working fine, except for browser widget (still investigating)

August 4, 2020 - Alex, Lars, Dani

no topics to discuss

July 28, 2020 - Tom, McQ

no topics to discuss

July 21, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars

no topics to discuss
Alex on vacation next week

July 14, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars

Project status
- M1 shipped last week
- Draft Plan for 4.17 posted - additional fixes done after review
- Release record created for 4.17
CQ process discussion - new clearly defined process
- Note sent to Wayne to get clarifications on handbook, Wayne has made some edits in response. We need to review latest handbook
- Should simplify IP clearance for third party libraries
  - If a bundle is approved by clearly defined it can be added with no CQ as long as the mavin URLs/coordinates are vetted by clearly defined
  - Orbit should soon automate the linking to clearly defined approvals for bundles added. Currently a work in progress by Roland at Orbit.
  - The ratings system at clearly defined is not used. Only the license check is used.
- PMC needs to review latest handbook on the topic ... As of now we should move forward with the new process
  - If concerns arise later we will need to take actions to correct
bug 565066 - Needs some attention to the solution and testing
- attempt to make incremental installation be consistent with resolution of a fresh install (or -clean).

June 23, 2020 - no call

June 16, 2020 - no call

June 9, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom

McQ: message to guide the community got no public reactions so far
Dani: bug reports needed for JDT, do we have PMC agreement?
- Alex: For me that was approved after jdt-dev vote ended
- AGREED
Dani: RC2 done, no major bug so far but still monitoriing for regressions
Alex: 4.17 stream open, not finished until 4.16 if final so all apichecks and etc. are in proper shape
Tom: OSGi R8 merge after stabilizing 4.17 stream
Tom: OSGi Move to Java 8 right after that
Dani: Switch to Java 11 as min version as it was already announced to happen in 4.17 stream shortly

June 2, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom

Inactive committer clean up for Eclipse project for the 4.16 release started via bug 563720
Infrastructure is really slow for RC2 release
RC2 bug queue is really low, one restart issue which is currently under investigated by Tom
Discussion about the JDT cleanup e-mails
- Need to ensure community discussions are positive and respectful.
- Expectations here should come from leadership
  - LibreOffice did this in the past to great success.
- Committers can vote against bugs but the tone of the discussion is important.
- PMC will respond via the public mailing list within a week

May 26, 2020 - Alex, Dani, McQ

Closed all M3 bugs; RC1 looking good
Tips&tricks, new&noteworthy, contributions to the newsletter in progress
Chromium integration CQ approved -- https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21808

May 19, 2020 - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex

Dani: Issues with the build infrastructure, might endanger M3, the team got a working build for testing
Dani: PowerPC hardware was donated so builds are starting again for it
Alex: CQ process might get simpler based on blog post from Wayne, Alex to test and validate with Wayne https://blogs.eclipse.org/post/wayne-beaton/revising-eclipse-ip-due-diligence-process-third-party-content
Lars: Question if we want to allow "EGit" commit style in Eclipse top-level project. Agreement was to allow it but not to recommend it or enforce it

May 12, 2020 - Tom, Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex

Update to themes
- Preference being added for choosing square vs round tabs
- Intern from Alex's team is taking up the work
- Update to Windows theme to be Windows 10
Alex brings up changes to CQ requirements. Need to read up on Wayne's post about this and discuss in a future call if we can change how the project does CQs
Who is running dark theme?
- Need someone to cover test of Dark Theme on Linux. Lars indicated that he runs with Linux Dark Theme and can help in coverage
- Dani described the various members of his team that cover the rest of the platforms
Request to contribute to article on what is new in the release for a June newsletter. Lars to contribute improvements in the Dark theme. General request to others to contribute anything else.
ppc64le build troubles
- Been having ongoing issues with the university hosted ppc64le machine we use to build support for ppc64le
- Currently the ppc64le build has been disabled
- Need to find alternatives
  - May be able to use something from IBM public cloud
  - Other suggestions: McQ - look towards using emulation, Alex - could do cross-compilation
- Need to plan if ppc 10 will supported in the future

May 5, 2020 - Dani, Alex, Lars, McQ, Tom

M2 shipped on time
- Dark theme rebuild for M2 due to severe issue
ICU4J removal note sent
- Lars - 2 years notice period needed?
- Agreement: it's needed as we expose it in API and still have usages in internals so we need time to clean up ourself
- EPPs cleanup - some blocked by JDT still using it, some by WTP, Rust probably the first one to be icu4j clean
Roundes vs square ctabfolder
- Number of themes to be reduced
- Performance not being measurable
- Agreement: add preference to switch the rounded vs
- Agreement: when preference is available Square is default
Windows theme update -
- Fix colors to match Windows 10
- GTK looks way more sane as more effort has been invested to keep it current
- Don't set colors but use the colors from the OS theme is the recipe
- Ugly white line on windows dark theme needs bugzilla open

April 28, 2020 - Dani, Alex, Lars

PMC decided that the OS specific themes should be removed, https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=562227
Windows light theme should become better https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=551462
Dani - This week is M2, no special freeze or testing but we will contribute our build from Friday to the simrel
Databinding analyis was done by Jens Lindstroem and it looks good for an API compliant solution
Alex will prepare the information for cross that we will drop ibm icu from the SDK build

April 21, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars

Q: How do we deal with ICU removal from data binding?
- Need to follow standard API removal rules
  - Deprecate old API and offer new API
  - Remove deprecated API after 2 years
- Can we put the old stuff in a fragment that could be removed?
Theming: rounded tabs versus square tabs (bug 562221)
- Should we offer it at all?
- Alex: Don’t increase the number of themes or options
- Lars: Square tabs are faster
- If speed is significant, we should consider changing the default

April 14, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars

Dani
- M1 shipped, no problems so far
- Using ECJ from M1 to build the SDK has some issues, there are people working on it
- 4.16 plan to be published this week
Unanimous decision to continue to use Zoom as usual

April 7, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars

Dani
- Created 4.16 plan
- Created release record for 4.16. Corresponding bug is bug 561643
- Sent note to add planning bugs for 4.16
- Please review and provide feedback if any
- After some infrastructure issues we have a good test build and currently things look good for M1 this week
Alex seconded the infrastructure issues and missing test results
ICU4J (bug 560312): we decided to remove it piece by piece from projects where possible and where someone is interested to do it. The ICU bundle itself will stay, and we will follow the API removal process when we are ready to remove it, i.e. no usage in the SDK anymore

March 31, 2020 - Dani, Alex, McQ, Tom, Lars

Dani: Contacted the ICU4J owner. He updated bug 560312, PMC members will review the comment and we will discuss next week
Dani: Planning bugs are created slowly for 4.16. Will send a reminder to the list to submit more. Started to work on plan and release record.

March 24, 2020 - Alex, McQ, Tom

Dani: Regrets for the call (Eclipse Board call)
Alex: status updates
- JDT merged Java 14 in master
- Build instability due to infra status
Alex: OSGi R8 modules support - what is it?
- Tom: ability to represent external content in the OSGi framework
- Alex: Will it allow shipping eclipse plugins as JPMS modules to ease native library handling?
- Tom: Haven't found any clear example how JPMS handles this, so good example is needed before could be looked further.

March 17, 2020 - Alex, McQ, Lars Tom, Dani

ICU4J use still under discussion
- Dani still to contact ICU4J owner
Shipping Java 14 and 4.15 this week
Java 14 work will be merged to master on Wednesday

March 10, 2020 - Lars, Tom

Dani: Regrets for the call (vacation)
ICU4J use still under discussion
- if we can be confident that performance and language support are of *similar* quality, we should work towards removing icu4j because it reduces complexity for us, in addition allowing for smaller RCP apps
- note that we already have mixed usage -- some components using icu4j and some not
to clarify approvals that require a project lead can be done by a project lead for any of the Eclipse Project subprojects
- as usual, the project lead should take care to understand the change and its implications before approving
we will move to Jetty 10 (and thus to Java 11) for the fall release
RH will be leading releng for 4.16

March 3, 2020 - no meeting

February 25, 2020 - Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex

Dani: Created and sent Endgame plan
Dani: Submitted IP Log: https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21716
Alex: SWT on Linux in 4.16 to require Gtk 3.20 to simplify CSS machinery and prep for GTK4
Alex: ICU4J removal
- Dani: ICU4J reacts faster to changes and supports more features (new Japanese era)
- Alex: It might but Eclipse fails at keeping up so current version shipped with Eclipse misses features that the JVM supports (latest CLDR)
- Dani: Asks for a proof that JVM is better that ICU
- Alex: Which metrics to be measured?
- Dani: Will check with ICU guy about that and whether it's still needed

February 18, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom

Dani: need to work on IP Log, Release Review and Endgame Plan
Lars: ECF - will we update to the latest
- Alex: is in the works. Scott needs to provide us with the update
Tom: Found an issue with JUnit 5 launching but not reproducible with latest I-build
- Dani: File a bug if you have steps or contact Noopur directly
Dani: Update on X-builds and tags

February 11, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom

Alex: Infrastructure is very instable, how can be complain to the foundation?
- Alex: Eclipse foundation server team not responding to complains and seem unclear about the source of the issue
- Discussion about makes a stronger statement to the foundation about the bad state of the infrastructure
- McQ: Suggestion to send a note as PMC to the foundation
- Dani: First we should ask webmaster why this takes so long
- Alex: Marketplace infrastructure is also in bad state
  - Dead marketplace entries are not getting removed https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=550713
  - No clean contact person from the foundation
  - Marketplace is also not Open Source hence we cannot fix thing ourself.

-> Alex to contact Denis and to cc the other PMC members

February 4, 2020 - McQ, Dani, Tom

OSGi Spec talk
- OSGi R8 Core will be done this year.
- May be ready for 4.16, but no rush if it slips to 4.17
- Will not put anything in master until spec is final which makes it more likely to be 4.17

January 28, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars

Ongoing saga of the EPP packages
- Markus did it last week
- PMC discussed possible futures here, but no conclusions
- Discussion also happening at the board level
M2 is this week
Pushing for JUnit updates for M2

January 21, 2020 - Dani, Tom, Lars

Dani: EPP builds still missing, Dani contacted Markus Knauer to update EPP for M1, release train is at risk if nobody steps up
New test failures are investigated, action plan is to restart the test, if they still fails restart the machine and if the tests still fail, see if a revert fixes the test

January 14, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom

Dani: Switch to SUSE Enterprise 15, team is in favor to drop 12
Dani: Plan updated to remove Windows 7
Alex: Felix Dependencies for SCR done
- confirm fix for bug 544571
- releng disruptions during update, but recovered. More disruptions expected as we update dependencies for March release.
- broken builds, need to get a list of issues. Seems to be more infrastructure issues. Need to report back to the foundation. Example, the signing issue that broken the respin.
Some discussion about gitlab option at foundation. bug 537913
- What happens to gerrit work flow for review?
- Would dropping bugzilla happen or can we migrate all issues?
- Without migration it is a no-go for us
- Currently no plans to move Eclipse project to gitlab at this time.

January 7, 2020 - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars

Dani: Created initial 4.15 plan - please have a look
Dani: Created release record for 4.15
Dani: Sent a note to teams to create their 4.15 plan items/bugs
Dani: Do we want to drop support for Windows 7 (remove from Target Environments only)
- Unanimous decision: Yes
Dani: Discuss (again, see below) resolution for stale bugs
- We want to ask the webmaster that stale bugs are directly closed. ACTION ITEM for Lars
- We will only auto/mass close existing stale bugs with notification turned off
Change rules about x-internal exports (bug 553709)
- Decision:
- - Newly added internal packages should not use x-internal exports unless there are very good reasons
- - For existing packages the x-internal export can be removed with PMC approval

Notice: this Wiki will be going read only early in 2024 and edits will no longer be possible. Please see: https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/wikis/Wiki-shutdown-plan for the plan.

Difference between revisions of "Eclipse/PMC"

Revision as of 11:09, 31 March 2021

Contents

Documents

Meeting Schedule

Meeting Minutes

Archive

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+= Documents =
+Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
+* [[E4/Graduation_4.0]]
+* [[Eclipse/PMC/Unix Groups]]
 = Meeting Schedule =
-The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
 = Meeting Minutes =
-'''Jan 27, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
-* Dani: Markus Keller taking over JDT UI
-* John: M6 Splashscreen for Eclipsecon: {{bug|297355}}
-* McQ: Removing Builds - SWT needs Linux-Motif, so only WPF about to be removed
-** In discussions with Microsoft, it turned out that WPF is not required to get full Windows 7 experience under Win32
-** XAML for styling was meant to be a cool idea but never got flying
-** Socialize people with this -- find whether people are inerested in contributing on this, if yes then we should support them
-* Still working the IBM approval process for travelling to Eclipsecon
-* Avoid merging major feature work after a milestone's Tuesday test pass
-<hr/>
+'''Mar 31, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex
-'''Jan 20, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
-* McQ: Contacted Steve N, still interested but unlikely to get more energy for investing into Eclipse
+* PMC call time
-* John: 3.5.2 test pass tomorrow, but yesterday's I-build been a mess
+** Overlaps with Planning council call and both Tom and Alex can't make both
-* McQ: Message about supporting Open JDK in a blog ... status should be "nice that it works but it's not a reference platform"
+-> Decision: Skip PMC call every first Wed of the month
+* Webpage Hugo migration
+** Recommended by Eclipse Foundation and active contributor to do the conversion
+** Concerns about mixing old and new content are raised but they don't look severe
+** Supported by PMC
+-> Tom to handle initial communication on behalf of PMC
+* Planning process relevance
+** the planning process is not providing the detailed and usable plans from the past
+** not a pain point as fewer people participate it but looks like useless exercise quite often
+** to be discussed....
+'''Mar 24, 2021''' - Tom, Alex, Lars
+* Pack 200 - API removal in 2 years - 2023-06
+** Should we turn off all pack 200 features in one year, make it consistent across all Java versions.
+** 2022-06 - disable pack200 for all Java versions. Calling the deprecated API will be a no-op
+* Pack 200 - When can we stop generating? Agreed on 2021-09 release.  We should set the precedence as early as possible to stop producing pack200 artifacts.
+* split packages
+** Causing issues with mandatory directive and p2 {{bug|360659}} and with tycho.
+** Currently tycho requires some work arounds for usage of split packages
+** Can we work to get rid of split packages. We agreed to investigate the work and move to combine split packages if possible.
+'''Mar 17, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex, Lars
+* SWT Chromium support
+** Still no recent version of Chromium with security patches
+** Will be dropped in M1 (if no recent version is provided in the next weeks or if no one steps up)
+* Pack 2000 support
+** not supported anymore as of Java 14
+** will be deprecated and marked for removal
+* Moving Eclipse repos to Github
+** Moving to Github might simplify and therefore increase contributions
+** Huge amount of work in releng
+** Potentially we should all subprojects at the same time
+** We check if the foundation plans to move everything to Gitlab
+'''Mar 10, 2021''' - McQ, Tom, Alex
+* Moving to Jetty 10 for next release
+* platform-dev discussion about move to GitHub
+** conversation is useful, but would take a lot of planning
+** lots of current rel eng dependencies on Gerrit
+*** need more community help for rel eng issues
+** a massive amount of history in our Bugzilla
+* release record and proto-plan created for 4.20
+'''Febr 17, 2021''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
+* Looks good for 4.19 release
+* Mac ARM has to wait for the 4.20 release, as the team fights multiple issues
+* Top-level project page can currently only be edited by Tom, other PMC members also have access to it https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/eclipse/who
+'''Dec 15, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
+* 06. January 2021 is the next meeting
+* How can PMC increase the awareness of the project leads / committers?
+** Maybe invite the project leads once per month to the PMC meeting?
+** Discussion how we can increase the JDT community
+'''Dec 01, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
+* RC1 is out; final touches on RC2
+* How can we remove the confusion about "e4" project?
+** e4 has always been intended to be a sandbox project where people could try things that are experimental or are on a longer timeline
+** Should be renamed to make it clear this isn't about leftovers from the Eclipse 4.0 work (maybe "eNext"?)
+** Should clean up repos
+*** Remove repos that just hold code that has already moved to the platform
+*** Remove repos that are no longer getting any investment
+*** Work toward moving things that are active/useful into the platform (e.g. "spies" to PDE)
+'''Nov 24, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, McQ
+* PMC is considering the potential of an SDK / IDE working group at the foundation
+* Discussion Do we need the extra releng work to create p2 repositories for milestones?
+** Lot of extra work and sometimes goes wrong
+** All I-Builds are anyway available
+-> PMC decided to drop the additional p2 repository
+-> Alex will be sending out an email about it to inform potential users of the special p2 repos
+** Discussion about the purpose of the milestone week at all
+-> Decision not to change the process for now, as the additional testing and focus has also some benefits
+'''Nov 17, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
+* Release 4.18 winding down
+** SWT churn for Linux and Mac Big Sur
+** Does not appear the Foundation got the new Mac Hardware for testing
+* Planning Council discussion
+** Dani filled the Eclipse TLP representation role on the Council
+** Alex can take the lead to that role
+** Alex will look to find a replacement for the tools TLP representative
+'''Nov 10, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
+* Still dealing with the loss of Dani
+* Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
+* Stabilizing for M3
+* Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
+* Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency
+'''Nov 10, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
+* Still dealing with the loss of Dani
+* Discussed representation of JDT on PMC
+* Stabilizing for M3
+* Some releng issues with Java 15 and 16
+* Tom began investigating p2 ECF httpclient dependency
+'''Nov 3, 2020''' - Lars, Alex, Tom, McQ
+* Dani!
+'''Oct 27, 2020''' - Lars, Tom
+* Nothing to discuss
+'''Oct 20, 2020''' - Lars, Tom, McQ, Alex
+* EclipseCon is running virtual this week
+* Agreement that removal of API should only before M1 release
+* Proof of concept for using Java 11 http client instead of ECF should be done
+* if we remove ECF we should send out an announcement and keep it for at least one release
+* Decision to start using the @Deprecated(since = "x.y.z", forRemoval = true) for planned API removals if the bundle can use Java 11, wiki for API removal should be updated
+'''Oct 6, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, McQ, Alex
+* M1 under control
+* Release train materials being worked
+* Moved to Jetty 9.4.32
+* ECF — need to simplify how we consume http client
+** could use Java11 http client instead, but this would require significant development effort
+** Tom/Alex to take an initial stab at understanding scope + open bugs
+* Proposal: remove API once a year
+** Given the already long time for consumers to respond to API deprecation, PMC decision was to continue to allow API removal in any release. It was felt that the incremental benefit was outweighed by the need to be able to move forward quickly.
+'''Sep 15, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, Lars, Alex
+* M1
+** Next week M1 - Alex to send reminder note
+** Holiday in India on this Friday
+* Y-Build for Java 16
+** Builds should be fixed and can continue to progress on Java 16
+* SCR upgrade
+** Some issues with EBR maven plugin
+** causes versions to be incorrectly represented in p2 meta-data
+** Orbit needs a new lead, will end up impacting us if no replacement found
+* Tycho being updated to be able to OSGi-fy JARs if they are not there yet.
+** How to use this for a feature?
+** Behaves much like Orbit to produce new versions of the artifact.
+** Could be the solution for Orbit needs.
+'''Sep 22, 2020''' - no meeting
+'''Sep 15, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Lars, Tom, Alex
+* Dani: Java 15 released today
+** 4.17 release together with Marketplace for Java 15 support are ready
+** JDT Java 15 to be merged this week
+* Dani: Zoom call with password unless each of the PMC members can be added as meeting owner so can start the meeting
+* Alex: 4.18 stream opened and releng work calmed down
+* Lars: Cleanup of migration guides
+** Dani: this will break existing links, so existing content have to stay unless someone does all the work to fix our plans and other links that will break
+** McQ: help system needs work to focus on the latest stuff/release, what should we do to achieve it? How can we better shape the help system now that having all content ofline is not a requirement?
+** Alex: do not ship migration, n&n,etc. but rather point to website url from help system
+** Alex: this would also reduce manual work for releng (+1 by Dani)
+** ACTION ITEM: Alex to work on n&n in help system to use the website content directly as a proof of concept for further work
+'''Sep 01, 2020''' - Lars, Alex
+* RC1 is fine, no additional requests for RC2
+'''August 25, 2020''' - Tom, Lars, Alex, Dani
+* Dani: sent out Endgame plan, RC1 this week, vacation starting on Friday
+* Alex informed about Red Hat's Releng participation
-<hr/>
+'''August 18, 2020''' - Tom, Lars, Dani
-'''Jan 13, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+* Dani to create and send out Endgame plan
-* McQ: U Manitoba students to help with technical communication (documentation, website, ...) for e4
+* Looking into Mac Big Sur launching issue ({{bug|565913}})
-* Dani: New way of contributing Capabilities for Helios... are we OK? - John: yes, Platform Capabilities are in the SDK feature
-** FYI: Incubating projects are
-* Martin: Documenting the Platforms we routinely test on
-** Unittest / Perftest machines are know. When John updated the Reference Platform doc, he made sure that he knows at least one committer on each platform
-** A poll to know what Platform(s) are actively used (by committers) on milestone granularity would be very helpful - John going to set that up
-<hr/>
-'''Jan 6, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Jeff
-* Agreed on 3.5.2 [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/freeze_plan_3_5_2.php freeze plan]
-** Note RC2 is a week earlier to avoid colliding with Helios M5 week
-* Discussed updates to Helios plan
-** Update Java 7 plan item to indicate only working on publicly available bits. Some progress made on getting access to specs but going slowly.
-** Update reference JRE's to latest version of each JRE
-* Jeff will be away for next six weeks (vacation)
-* McQ to contact Steve to see if he still wishes to remain on PMC
-<hr/>
+'''August 11, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, Tom, McQ
-'''Dec 9:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+* Eclipse Foundation is getting access to an Apple Silicon dev kit
-* Agree on the [[Eclipse/API Central/Deprecation Policy]]
+** Will make it available to SWT devs via cloud connectivity
+* M3 next week; RC1 following week
+* ARM64 port seems to be working fine, except for browser widget (still investigating)
-<hr/>
-'''Dec 2:''' - John, Dani, McQ
-* Some discussion about getting good talk coverage at EclipseCon
-* Need to revisit API deprecation policy when we have enough attendees
-<hr/>
+'''August 4, 2020''' - Alex, Lars, Dani
-'''Nov 25:''' - John, Dani, McQ
+* no topics to discuss
-* No interesting discussion due to lack of attendees
-<hr/>
-'''Nov 18:''' - John, Martin, Dani
-* John: Deadlocks / errors during JDT and CVS tests - deadlocks should be fixed, not sure about other failures.
-<hr/>
+'''July 28, 2020''' - Tom, McQ
-'''Nov 11:''' - Dani, Martin, John, Jeff
+* no topics to discuss
-* Nothing to discuss.
-<hr/>
-'''Nov 4:''' - Dani, Martin
-* Discussed speeding up builds along the lines of {{bug|293830}}.
-<hr/>
+'''July 21, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars
-'''Oct 28:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+* no topics to discuss
-* McQ - vacation for 2 weeks: Dani to do the calls, John to do the status messages
+* Alex on vacation next week
-* McQ, Dani - IntelliJ gone open source; but not making the J2EE part open source; GUI designer and XML tooling is open source; JUnit and TestNG integration; svn integration out of the box
-** Seems to be a very liberal license - pulling in the UI designer into the Eclipse world might be an option
-** We need more information
-** '''Pre-integration''' of stuff: Could we have a "Get more stuff into Eclipse" menu item that auomatically grabs the popular stuff, rather than offering the more complex repo choices we have today
-*** Or, lazy loading: E.g. click on a docs stub, open a dialog to install the docs
-*** Address the casual end users like "Hey I just want to edit some XML"
-** Martin: This is the "product" vs "framework" discussion which has come up before
-** McQ: perhaps it is just a question of level of indirection?
-** Martin: Yes but who is going to actually put resources on that?
-** McQ: must have a solution in the base (the Platform)
-** Martin: That would be great, then we can approach the AC with a much stronger background
-** McQ: want to be competitive. Will know more about resourcing by Nov 16.
-** John: Already have a plan for some groundwork for this in 3.6. Some Mylyn solution exists on top of p2.
-** '''AI Martin''' put the item on the AC agenda
-* Martin - Follow up on Oct 14 McQ '''Official Eclipse Platform Deprecation Policy'''
-** John - Concerned about putting semantics on "Marketing numbers" for the releases. Focus on the time ("2 years") rather than releases.
-** John - What about upstream projects? E.g. ECF had a major release
-*** McQ - cannot make decisions for other projects. If I can only move when everyone else moves, we get a deadlock. Would like to only commit to version ranges that are re-exported
-** '''AI''' continue discussion on the mailing list
-<hr/>
+'''July 14, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Alex, McQ, Lars
-'''Oct 21:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Jeff
+* Project status
-* McQ - '''backward compatibility''': struggling more with maintaining backward compatibility than hoped
+** M1 shipped last week
-** 12000 references to "internal" in IBM products (RAD) according to API - mostly due to verbatim copies of Platform code, will need better API tooling to get rid of these false positives -- e.g. by grouping together by "copied package"
+** Draft Plan for 4.17 posted - additional fixes done after review
-** IBM may need to keep the shape of internals alive when refactoring code
+** Release record created for 4.17
-** Keep 3.x in place as is. Do any larger API changes in e4.
+* CQ process discussion - new clearly defined process
-** Jeff - consumers need to understand that there is a lot of work being put into API, and it requires consumer's feedback / interaction
+** Note sent to Wayne to get clarifications on handbook, Wayne has made some edits in response.  We need to review latest handbook
-** If non-IBM committers need to break internals, they are allowed to do so. If IBM people need the internals, they will invest time to work around that again.
+** Should simplify IP clearance for third party libraries
-* Jeff - '''retention policies in the Galileo Repo'''
+*** If a bundle is approved by clearly defined it can be added with no CQ as long as the mavin URLs/coordinates are vetted by clearly defined
-** Just keep on everybody's radar. Getting this right is VERY important for the entire community.
+*** Orbit should soon automate the linking to clearly defined approvals for bundles added.  Currently a work in progress by Roland at Orbit.
-** We got some good stories in p2, but these don't mesh very well with mirroring (unless the entire repo is mirrored)
+*** The ratings system at clearly defined is not used.  Only the license check is used.
-** Martin - discussions in last EAC call: Maven has long history of keeping old versions alive, Andrew Overholt mentioned that making access to old versions too easy may also be a problem
+** PMC needs to review latest handbook on the topic ... As of now we should move forward with the new process
+*** If concerns arise later we will need to take actions to correct
+* {{bug|565066}} - Needs some attention to the solution and testing
+** attempt to make incremental installation be consistent with resolution of a fresh install (or -clean).
-<hr/>
+'''June 23, 2020''' - no call
-'''Oct 14:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
-* Dani '''Nightly Builds''': More builds broken. Need to take more care for the builds.
-* Martin '''e4 and the AC''': AC wants monthly e4 updates; Question about 4 competing declarative UI technologies
-** The switch between being in the "incubator" and being the "Eclipse SDK" needs to be "what are we using ourselves"?
-** Until we use e4 ourselves to develop, it's going to remain in the incubator. At the time we switch over, there will be one or more winning technologies.
-** McQ to join AC calls, Martin to remind timely.
-* Martin '''AC - API Deprecation Policy''' should be published, projects want to follow the Platform lead. '''AI McQ''' write something down
-<hr/>
+'''June 16, 2020''' - no call
-'''Oct 7:''' - John, Dani, Martin, Jeff
-* Martin: '''How to run the performance tests'''
-** John: See [http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.test.performance/doc/Performance%20Tests%20HowTo.html?view=co web doc]
-** Dani: Frederic working on a tool for displaying results, he's still the man to ask in case of questions.
-<hr/>
+'''June 9, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom
-'''Sep 30:''' -
+* McQ: message to guide the community got no public reactions so far
+* Dani: bug reports needed for JDT, do we have PMC agreement?
+** Alex: For me that was approved after jdt-dev vote ended
+** AGREED
+* Dani: RC2 done, no major bug so far but still monitoriing for regressions
+* Alex: 4.17 stream open, not finished until 4.16 if final so all apichecks and etc. are in proper shape
+* Tom: OSGi R8 merge after stabilizing 4.17 stream
+* Tom: OSGi Move to Java 8 right after that
+* Dani: Switch to Java 11 as min version as it was already announced to happen in 4.17 stream shortly
-<hr/>
-'''Sep 24:''' -
-<hr/>
+'''June 2, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, Lars, Tom
-'''Sep 17:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+* Inactive committer clean up for Eclipse project for the 4.16 release started via {{bug|563720}}
-* John: '''CQ Process''' - The PMC's +1 is not for reading the code but for verifying that "we want this" on a high level. Bring dubious ones to the PMC as a group.
+* Infrastructure is really slow for RC2 release
-* McQ: '''Java 5''' - there are few plugins which may want an earlier Execution Environment, but it makes sense to drop the 1.4 Reference Platforms (need to communicate this to IBM).
+* RC2 bug queue is really low, one restart issue which is currently under investigated by Tom
-* John: '''Component Milestone Plans''' - bring up in the arch call
+* Discussion about the JDT cleanup e-mails
-* Martin: '''AC Representation''' - McQ to lead, John to second
+** Need to ensure community discussions are positive and respectful.
-* Getting ready for M2, signing off for 3.5.1
+** Expectations here should come from leadership
+*** LibreOffice did this in the past to great success.
+** Committers can vote against bugs but the tone of the discussion is important.
+** PMC will respond via the public mailing list within a week
-<hr/>
-'''Sep 10:''' - McQ, John, Jeff
-* '''Java 5'''
-* Jeff: '''Apache Aerius'''
-* '''e4 progress'''
-<hr/>
+'''May 26, 2020''' - Alex, Dani, McQ
-'''Sep 3:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+* Closed all M3 bugs; RC1 looking good
-* John: '''New 3.6 plan''' - consider removing 1.4 as reference platform, talk to Runtime guys at IBM
+* Tips&tricks, new&noteworthy, contributions to the newsletter in progress
-* Dani: '''Doc Features'''
+* Chromium integration CQ approved -- https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21808
-<hr/>
-'''Aug 26:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff
-* '''New Sat4j version''' - RT PMC decided to take it out again, so not an issue
-* '''Separating docs from the code?''' - Dani to post respective bug on the pmc mailing list
-* '''e4 status updates''' - Jeff interested in regular e4 updates on the pmc
-<hr/>
+'''May 19, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex
-'''Aug 19:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff, John A
+* Dani: Issues with the build infrastructure, might endanger M3, the team got a working build for testing
-* '''Pruning inactive committers'''
+* Dani: PowerPC hardware was donated so builds are starting again for it
-** Martin: The EMO [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-project-leadership/msg00000.html recommends removing inactive committers] in order to keep the project vibrant and relevant. Why are there so many non-voters?
+* Alex: CQ process might get simpler based on blog post from Wayne, Alex to test and validate with Wayne https://blogs.eclipse.org/post/wayne-beaton/revising-eclipse-ip-due-diligence-process-third-party-content
-*** Dani: Component Granularity - Portal is still broken for JDT UI vs. JDT Core.
+* Lars: Question if we want to allow "EGit" commit style in Eclipse top-level project. Agreement was to allow it but not to recommend it or enforce it
-*** Martin: Yet there are likely some who really haven't been active for long -- but only component / project lead would know that
-** McQ: We are not actively searching to prune inactive committers. Committers are good, whether active or not. No interest in doing any work for this, but OK if others do.
-*** Jeff: sees some sense in pruning the list, and did so in the past for Equinox
-** Rights - what can we actually do in the Portal?
-*** Component leads can mark people active who appear inactive on the portal
-*** Only [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-project-leadership/msg00002.html The Project Lead can decommitterize], and can do so without PMC interaction
-**** Jeff - it's odd that this is not symmetrical to approving new committers
-** John: Once a committer is emeritus and decides to come back, can we make the process of re-making them a committer easier?
-*** Jeff thinks that the normal committer process is good in this case.
-** '''Consensus:'''
-*** We do not actively ask to remove inactive committers, but if a component / project lead wants to do so, they are welcome
-*** The process is to first send E-Mail to the potentially inactive committer and if they agree they are [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/equinox-dev/msg04309.html decommitterized] and optionally turned to [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/equinox-dev/msg04324.html committer emeritus]
-*** If the E-Mail doesn't work any more they can also be decommitterized immediately.
-* '''Reference Platforms'''
-** Going through the process of refreshing reference platform list for Helios
-** Currently considering: Switch to SLES 11 from SLES 10, add Windows 7, add Ubuntu LTS 9.04, add 64-bit Eclipse for Linux PPC-64 (possibly replacing 32-bit Eclipse for Linux PPC-64)
-** If you have additional platforms or upgrades to consider, send a note on eclipse-pmc or mention during a PMC call
-* '''Bugzilla: LATER / REMIND states'''
-** 4000 bugs affected. Need to discuss in the arch call how to proceed.
-** Dani Proposal: LATER --&gt; WONTFIX / REMIND --&gt; INVALID / and move back to the inbox since often assignees no longer active
-<hr/>
-'''Aug 12:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff, John A
-* '''Retrospective Actions''' -
-** Need to nominate a person to care for performance: Dani to try find somebody from JDT core for a bounded time (6 months or so)
-** Build issues
-** Bugzilla performance etc
-* '''Backward compatibility'''
-** Reporting tool - want a foundation database, that Members can report their API / non-API usage signatures into
-** Part of the member value-add
-** KNOWING the impact is the first important thing
-* '''Forward compatibility''' - from RT / Christian Campo
-** PDE never tried to ensure that somebody can use 3.4 to launch 3.5
-** The differences in launching 3.4 vs 3.5 are small... if we would have been aware, we could have made this possible
-<hr/>
+'''May 12, 2020''' - Tom, Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex
-'''Aug 5:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff, John A
+* Update to themes
-* '''Security proposal''' on eclipse-pmc list - agree that this should be closer to the target runtimes (wtp, ...)
+** Preference being added for choosing square vs round tabs
-* '''"Plugin" vs "Bundle"''' - Clarification: Proposal was only about PDE. Global replacement is out of reach.
+** Intern from Alex's team is taking up the work
-** McQ thinks that Plugin is a Bundle that makes use of the Eclipse extension registry (plugin.xml) - Jeff disagrees wrt declarative services
+** Update to Windows theme to be Windows 10
-** As a message to end users, does it help us if we talk about "plugins"?
+* Alex brings up changes to CQ requirements.  Need to read up on Wayne's post about this and discuss in a future call if we can change how the project does CQs
-** Is this an internal statement about tooling, or something we should do more globally?
+* Who is running dark theme?
-** Real problem is, that people should perceive PDE as tooling for bundles: Make Eclipse more adoptable in the OSGi community
+** Need someone to cover test of Dark Theme on Linux.  Lars indicated that he runs with Linux Dark Theme and can help in coverage
-** "Bundle" and "Plugin" have been used interchangeably for about 5 years... but still, a more pervasive change would require lots of docs changes that may be very painful for consumers
+** Dani described the various members of his team that cover the rest of the platforms
-** McQ wants a technical proposal what should be changed
+* Request to contribute to article on what is new in the release for a June newsletter.  Lars to contribute improvements in the Dark theme.  General request to others to contribute anything else.
-** Perhaps provide a '''separate''' tooling for bundles (with property files replaced)? EPP Package for Bundle Developers? - But a choice is not a good thing...
+* ppc64le build troubles
-** '''Jeff suggestion:''' Do PDE 3.6 that is "all bundles" plus add a compatibility bundle that gives you the word "plugin" back.
+** Been having ongoing issues with the university hosted ppc64le machine we use to build support for ppc64le
-* McQ: '''Backward Compatibility''' - consuming new versions of Eclipse is still too hard. IBM makes it the highest priority that '''everything''' that ran on 3.5 also runs on 3.6 - including internals - or the new version may not be consumable!
+** Currently the ppc64le build has been disabled
-** Do anything that may not be easily backwards compatible in the 4.0 stream rather than the 3.x stream.
+** Need to find alternatives
-** Jeff thinks this is going to be a hard sell because internals are made to be internal
+*** May be able to use something from IBM public cloud
-** Jeff: API Tooling that allows people to discover use of internals, see also {{bug|261544}}
+*** Other suggestions: McQ - look towards using emulation, Alex - could do cross-compilation
+** Need to plan if ppc 10 will supported in the future
-<hr/>
-'''Jul 29:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John A, Jeff
-* Dani will start to organize [[Eclipse/Galileo/Retrospective]] items
-* Too many broken builds recently
-* e4 shipping 0.9 this week
-* PDE project proposal coming to explore Eclipse build technology
-<hr/>
+'''May 5, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, Lars, McQ, Tom
-'''Jul 15:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John A, Jeff
-* Dani: What to do with the [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-dev/msg08660.html Galileo Retrospective] items? Which ones should become action items? E.g. Bugzilla Slowness?
-** John: Next PC meeting is Aug 3, should have items for the PC ready by then
-** Decision: PMC mailing list conversation, will review retrospective action in Jul 29 PMC meeting.
-* McQ to send out a note to formalize John as the PC representation
-* McQ wants status messages again for the arch call
-<hr/>
+* M2 shipped on time
-'''Jun 24:''' - McQ, Dani
+** Dark theme rebuild for M2 due to severe issue
-* Dani asked whether the PMC meeting notes are targeted for the public
+* ICU4J removal note sent
-** McQ: yes, they got announced on pmc mailing list
+** Lars - 2 years notice period needed?
-* no PMC call next week due to a holiday
+** Agreement: it's needed as we expose it in API and still have usages in internals so we need time to clean up ourself
+** EPPs cleanup - some blocked by JDT still using it, some by WTP, Rust probably the first one to be icu4j clean
+* Roundes vs square ctabfolder
+** Number of themes to be reduced
+** Performance not being measurable
+** Agreement: add preference to switch the rounded vs
+** Agreement: when preference is available Square is default
+* Windows theme update -
+** Fix colors to match Windows 10
+** GTK looks way more sane as more effort has been invested to keep it current
+** Don't set colors but use the colors from the OS theme is the recipe
+** Ugly white line on windows dark theme needs bugzilla open
-<hr/>
-'''Jun 17:''' - McQ, Dani, Jeff, John A, (Martin joined just as we were hanging up)
-* Dani asked whether the PMC had internal discussion of new committer votes
-** A: Generally the PMC member for the component gives +1, unless they feel the need to bring the discussion to the rest of the PMC
-* Jeff mentioned that we should remind the teams to do retrospectives
-<hr/>
+'''April 28, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, Lars
-'''Jun 10:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Steve, John A
-* Welcome to Dani, John agrees to be here as a listening member for a while
-* Sun Java 6u14 (May 25) broken for debugging because thread ID's are changed when garbage collector runs
-** Clearly a Sun bug (also happens in jdb) but not yet confirmed by Sun
-** Described in Readme, but readme will only be available when a rebuild occurs
-** Dani will send out a note tomorrow when they know more about other platforms
-<hr/>
+* PMC decided that the OS specific themes should be removed, https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=562227
-'''Jun 3:''' - McQ, Martin, Steve, Jeff
+* Windows light theme should become better https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=551462
-* McQ - asking Dani M to join the Eclipse PMC to represent JDT. PMC agrees. McQ will send a note to Mike Milinkovich / EMO.
+* Dani - This week is M2, no special freeze or testing but we will contribute our build from Friday to the simrel
-* McQ - asking John A to represent the Eclipse Project on Planning Council
+* Databinding analyis was done by Jens Lindstroem and it looks good for an API compliant solution
-** Jeff thinks that the PC rep should be a PMC member in order to have a strong bi-directional communication path.
+* Alex will prepare the information for cross that we will drop ibm icu from the SDK build
-** McQ proposes asking John to join the PMC calls for communication.
-** Martin agrees provided that John is OK with this delegate role.
-* Steve {{bug|277713}} critical bug, probably more critical bugs to triage - defer to arch call
-* Jeff Target Provisioning discussion
-<hr/>
-'''May 27:''' - McQ, Martin, Steve
-* {{bug|277735}} releng.tools copyright tool - Martin would like to see it released. Discuss in Arch call.
-<hr/>
+'''April 21, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars
-'''May 20:''' - McQ, Martin
+* Q: How do we deal with ICU removal from data binding?
-* PC Lead: John A suggested to represent Eclipse
+** Need to follow standard API removal rules
-* Linux: New Launchers built, didn't start on Linux ... I-build was broken, want to know why
+*** Deprecate old API and offer new API
+*** Remove deprecated API after 2 years
+** Can we put the old stuff in a fragment that could be removed?
+* Theming: rounded tabs versus square tabs ({{bug|562221}})
+** Should we offer it at all?
+** Alex: Don’t increase the number of themes or options
+** Lars: Square tabs are faster
+** If speed is significant, we should consider changing the default
-<hr/>
-'''May 13:''' - McQ, Martin, Jeff, Steve, Philippe
-* {{bug|273660}} Common Navigator: Pipelining issues with JDT + CDT
-<hr/>
+'''April 14, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars
-'''May 6:''' - McQ, Martin, Jeff
+* Dani
-* McQ PDE Feature Request
+** M1 shipped, no problems so far
-** New Target Platform came in late
+** Using ECJ from M1 to build the SDK has some issues, there are people working on it
-** PMC agrees with trying to fix this, but want to see the final patch before +1
+** 4.16 plan to be published this week
-* McQ Testplan
+* Unanimous decision to continue to use Zoom as usual
-** People going to test their own because test plan is too complex
-* Jeff Splash Screen
-<hr/>
+'''April 7, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Tom, Lars
-'''Apr 29:''' - McQ, Martin, Steve
+* Dani
-* Martin: Java6 ref platform - anything between 6u3 and 6u10 (exclusive) was broken, anything after 6u10 (inclusive) has license issues in [http://java.sun.com/javase/6/javase-6-thirdpartyreadme.txt thirdpartylicensereadme.txt].
+** Created [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_16.xml 4.16 plan]
-** Suggestion: Dont update the plan document yet, but start running tests with 6u13 on Linux. '''AI McQ''' talk to Kim about this.
+** Created [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=561643 release record for 4.16]. Corresponding bug is {{bug|561643}}
-** '''AI Martin''' make a final attempt to get more info out of Sun.
+** Sent note to add planning bugs for 4.16
-* Steve: Solaris x86 - looks good but some problems with X server
+** '''Please review and provide feedback if any'''
-* McQ: API Deprecation Policy {{bug|261544}} - '''AI McQ''' synthesise some summary and comment on the bug
+** After some infrastructure issues we have a good test build and currently things look good for M1 this week
-* M7: Testers found some interesting prolbems with launching Eclipse from Eclipse (depending on VM, BIDI chars in paths dont work)
+* Alex seconded the infrastructure issues and missing test results
+* ICU4J ({{bug|560312}}): we decided to remove it piece by piece from projects where possible and where someone is interested to do it. The ICU bundle itself will stay, and we will follow the API removal process when we are ready to remove it, i.e. no usage in the SDK anymore
-<hr/>
+'''March 31, 2020''' - Dani, Alex, McQ, Tom, Lars
-'''Apr 22:''' - McQ, Martin, Steve, Philippe
+* Dani: Contacted the ICU4J owner. He updated {{bug|560312}}, PMC members will review the comment and we will discuss next week
-* Steve: Solaris x86 - got a Browser running, looking good,
+* Dani: Planning bugs are created slowly for 4.16. Will send a reminder to the list to submit more. Started to work on plan and release record.
-* Steve: Cocoa Sheets - new API - Dialogs associated with a Window: Dialog slides down from title bar
-** Clients need to opt in through new API because they need to specify a dialog as being adequate for sheet support
-* Martin: Maintenance builds post SR2
-** experience in the past has shown only very few, surgically isolated patches so the problem is probably smaller than anticipated
-** don't want anything produced to appear official -- anything that appears official MUST result in a test pass and this must be avoided
-** it makes sense to talk about this in the context of "Release Train" and not only "Eclipse Platform" -- Martin filed {{bug|273262}} against the AC
-* Martin has some update on Sun Java 6 -- will update {{bug|261724}}
-<hr/>
+'''March 24, 2020''' - Alex, McQ, Tom
-'''Apr 15:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, Steve
+* Dani: Regrets for the call (Eclipse Board call)
-* McQ: '''Solaris x86''' - OK if we get the machine up and running until Friday, too late for swapping reference platform otherways
+* Alex: status updates
-* '''Polish List''' [[Polish3.5]] - Some developers don't have time for polish items. For now, it's just a list such that we *know* what's coming up.
+** JDT merged Java 14 in master
-** Martin wondering why we need a separate wiki page, bugzilla query should be enough?
+** Build instability due to infra status
-** Who owns the Polish list - Eclipse Project Committers. We capture items that we find "stupid" when using Eclipse ourselves.
+* Alex: OSGi R8 modules support - what is it?
-* '''Maintenance builds after 3.4'''
+** Tom: ability to represent external content in the OSGi framework
-** IBM will never consume any community builds: want the absolute minimum of required fixes
+** Alex: Will it allow shipping eclipse plugins as JPMS modules to ease native library handling?
-** If a fix shows up in any IBM product, then it is on a bug somewhere
+** Tom: Haven't found any clear example how JPMS handles this, so good example is needed before could be looked further.
-** But fixes are never cumulative
-** Martin thinks that a first step would be well-defined markup of such "released-to-product" fixes.
-** Another next step is allowing Eclipse builds by the Community -- we can do anything that's not making Kim's life harder.
-** How to proceed with communications: open bugs, bugzilla discussions.
-<hr/>
+'''March 17, 2020''' - Alex, McQ, Lars Tom, Dani
-'''Apr 1:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, Steve, Philippe
+* ICU4J use still under discussion
-* McQ: Solaris x86 (recommend building since Sun helped at Eclipsecon), Perf results (not trustworthy on Windows?)
+** Dani still to contact ICU4J owner
-* Martin: M-builds beyond 3.4.2
+* Shipping Java 14 and 4.15 this week
-** Two problems: (a) provide a build system that the community can use, and (b) provide a platform for accumulating fixes easily without risking version collisions etc
+* Java 14 work will be merged to master on Wednesday
-*** The risk of (b) is high that as a result we'd have some low-quality sea of incompatible fixes. We better don't go with this.
-** Other solution is allow to cherry-pick on source level - just provide a new target milestone in bugzilla, product builders cherry-pick patches they want to apply and do so locally.
-* Jeff: OSGi tooling; future plans around build
-** We need to run builds ourselves (see also above) - e.g. equinox sdk feature is in some internal repository
-** PDE build has stretched pretty far over time.. what to do with it
-*** Needs to be one of the main plan items for 3.6, but don't want to wait that long
-*** SAP perhaps to help out with staffing
-* Boris to host the arch call since Steve, McQ, Philippe all cannot join
-<hr/>
+'''March 10, 2020''' - Lars, Tom
-'''Mar 18:''' - McQ, Steve, Martin
+* Dani: Regrets for the call (vacation)
-* no arch next week due to EclipseCon
+* ICU4J use still under discussion
-* McQ found a performance test that is 8000% slower
+** if we can be confident that performance and language support are of *similar* quality, we should work towards removing icu4j because it reduces complexity for us, in addition allowing for smaller RCP apps
-** teams are overwhelmed (but remind them to check performance tests)
+** note that we already have mixed usage -- some components using icu4j and some not
-* Martin reminded us about use of [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg00575.html Parallel IP for Mature Projects] and JSch-0.1.41
+* to clarify approvals that require a project lead can be done by a project lead for any of the Eclipse Project subprojects
-** need to identify uses on the download links (or also inside the downloads?)
+** as usual, the project lead should take care to understand the change and its implications before approving
-** EMO has not developed the policy yet
+* we will move to Jetty 10 (and thus to Java 11) for the fall release
-** McQ: "Q: Should we just not use the mechanism?"
+* RH will be leading releng for 4.16
-** Downstream consumers may need to test against new lib features early. Just for test and experimentation, not for consumption: want parallel IP in I-builds
-** McQ: Milestones are a corner case -- some consumers use these in products!
-** Parallel IP is a tool for projects who want it. A clear policy is one thing. Guidelines for projects to adopt it or not is another thing -- may depend on the number and kind of consumers.
-** Result: Martin to Bring up that topic on the [[Architecture Council/Meetings/March 22 F2F EclipseCon 2009]],
-*** Example issues: can't put it in for I-build and remove for Milestone S-build
-<hr />
-'''Mar 11:''' - McQ, Steve, Jeff, Martin
+'''March 3, 2020''' - no meeting
-* Martin - '''{{bug|227055}} and late API additions'''
-** McQ: after m6 is too late if it has any downstream impact (changing behavior, deleting things, ...). Plain API additions may slip a week.
-** Steve: If new API has effect on performance and polish, may look more favorably.
-** If going in after M6, it needs to go through the process (e-mail and public discussion on eclipse-pmc list).
-** Strict API Tooling checks to be enabled next week
-* McQ - '''state of M6'''; some late UI things to review
-** Some low-risk polish Cocoa items for Eclipsecon (enablers)
-** Still changes in p2 (after m6), but stabilizing
-* Martin/Jeff - '''New Target Platform Page''' may require more tweaking - risk of breaking community workflows!
-** E.g. adding a directory to the target platform; Jeff uses target platforms a lot, so he's likely more exposed than most of the Community... 10 to 15 locations with hundreds of bundles...
-** Related to the {{bug|224145}} p2 "extension location" problem which broke user workflows. Don't want to have such breakage again.
-* Jeff - '''Status on Galileo Must do's''' - deferred to next week
-* McQ - '''p2 OSGi OBR Repositories'''
-** Jeff: OSGi wants to foster bundle store / bundle repositories, and specify a repository standard (long-standing RFE112 never been ratified)
-** Similar to p2, but does have some potential issues
-** Ideally, Equinox would be the reference impl of whatever standard comes up... but got a staffing problem, how to get the solution standardized that we need.
-*** Writing a p2 OBR repository adapter is not hard, but OBR repos won't be able to eat p2 metadata
-** p2 doesn't care about XML format whereas OBR specifies the XML. p2 got more sophisticated API model. Jeff doesn't have access to the latest spec.
-* Steve wants Eclipsecon demos to be done on '''Cocoa''', will expedite any bugfixes (please do file them!). Jeff needs browser integration.
-<hr/>
-'''Mar 4:''' - McQ, Steve, Jeff, Philippe, Martin
+'''February 25, 2020''' - Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex
+* Dani: Created and sent Endgame plan
+* Dani: Submitted IP Log: https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21716
+* Alex: SWT on Linux in 4.16 to require Gtk 3.20 to simplify CSS machinery and prep for GTK4
+* Alex: ICU4J removal
+** Dani: ICU4J reacts faster to changes and supports more features (new Japanese era)
+** Alex: It might but Eclipse fails at keeping up so current version shipped with Eclipse misses features that the JVM supports (latest CLDR)
+** Dani: Asks for a proof that JVM is better that ICU
+** Alex: Which metrics to be measured?
+** Dani: Will check with ICU guy about that and whether it's still needed
-* Upgrade 3.4 -> 3.5
-** Will we be able to support this in p2?
-*** Nope, needed hooks already in previous release (ie. needed them in 3.4 to be used by 3.5)
-** Problems include replacing the Eclipse .exe
-** Is this an important use case?  There is no band width to solve this problem in 3.5
-** it's a good showcase for p2 technology
-** idea: put in the low level hooks for 3.5.1 and use them next time (ie. 3.5 -> 3.6)
-** Did Update Manager ever do this?
-*** Jeff: It does not
-* Deprecating Mac carbon?
+'''February 18, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom
-** Apple claims Cocoa is the future
+* Dani: need to work on IP Log, Release Review and Endgame Plan
-** 3.5 will be the last version of Eclipse where Carbon is under active development
+* Lars: ECF - will we update to the latest
-*** But will maintain for 3.6 and 3.7
+** Alex: is in the works. Scott needs to provide us with the update
-** Q: Has Apple officially deprecated carbon?
+* Tom: Found an issue with JUnit 5 launching but not reproducible with latest I-build
-*** No but they have down played it (ie. no 64-bit support for carbon)
+** Dani: File a bug if you have steps or contact Noopur directly
-** Should there be an official deprecation policy for platforms?
+* Dani: Update on X-builds and tags
-<hr/>
-'''Feb 25:''' - McQ, Steve, Martin, Philippe
+'''February 11, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Lars, Tom
+* Alex: Infrastructure is very instable, how can be complain to the foundation?
+** Alex: Eclipse foundation server team not responding to complains and seem unclear about the source of the issue
+** Discussion about makes a stronger statement to the foundation about the bad state of the infrastructure
+** McQ: Suggestion to send a note as PMC to the foundation
+** Dani: First we should ask webmaster why this takes so long
+** Alex: Marketplace infrastructure is also in bad state
+*** Dead marketplace entries are not getting removed https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=550713
+*** No clean contact person from the foundation
+*** Marketplace is also not Open Source hence we cannot fix thing ourself.
-* AC "committers should know" mail
+-> Alex to contact Denis and to cc the other PMC members
-** '''Following external links''' McQ why not introduce some Javascript on the server that warns users automatically when they follow an external link?
-** Components to projects flattening (not on our plate at the time)
-* Steve Target milestones for Eclipse project
-* BZ patches to be flagged when they contain API
-* '''N-builds broken''' over the weekend (again) - 3 weekends in a row - no people currently who are willing to work during the weekend
-** Hudson might help eventually, for now using e4 builds as the guinea pig
-* '''UI Forms has no committers''' - opportunity for Community to become committer
-** migrate off (using internal browser instead)
-** no critical bugs, less than 125 interesting bugs
-** long-term future is e4 with css/styling and declarative ui
-* '''Performance:''' No news (not yet while closing down API)
-** Philippe thinks that the performance milestone must be earlier since performance might touch on API. We're losing memory because rebasing
-** McQ - this cycle we had a performance run in M2, this year we're in a better position than last year
-'''Feb 18:''' -  no meeting
+'''February 4, 2020''' - McQ, Dani, Tom
+* OSGi Spec talk
+** OSGi R8 Core will be done this year.
+** May be ready for 4.16, but no rush if it slips to 4.17
+** Will not put anything in master until spec is final which makes it more likely to be 4.17
-'''Feb 11:'''
-'''Feb 4:'''
+'''January 28, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars
+* Ongoing saga of the EPP packages
+** Markus did it last week
+** PMC discussed possible futures here, but no conclusions
+** Discussion also happening at the board level
+* M2 is this week
+* Pushing for JUnit updates for M2
-<hr/>
-'''Jan 28:'''
+'''January 21, 2020''' - Dani, Tom, Lars
+* Dani: EPP builds still missing, Dani contacted Markus Knauer to update EPP for M1, release train is at risk if nobody steps up
+* New test failures are investigated, action plan is to restart the test, if they still fails restart the machine and if the tests still fail, see if a revert fixes the test
-* Java 6
-** move reference platform to Sun 6u11
-*** problem(?): Sun added 3 new items added that are licensed LGPL or GPL
-*** [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] Martin added comment to {{bug|261724}} to identify this issue
-* ICU 4.0
-** we will stay with 4.0
-* Deprecation Policy
-** still under discussion, {{bug|261544}}
-* Use of internal provisional
-** seems to be some consensus about *not* requiring this, {{bug|261874}}
-* JDT co-leadership
-** what is the process?
-*** Jeff: vote in community; then propose to the PMC
-*** Would like to get Dani Meghert involved.
-*** Philippe will check development process documents
-* Cocoa port
-** Looking good
-** Taking early access off and making it the "first" choice for Mac downloads
-* Milestone progress / 3.4.2
-** Need to discuss M5 in arch call (should have done this last week)
-** Should always remind the team in the arch call of upcoming deadlines
-** Performance issues that need API to fix have to happen by M6
-*** Teams should understand performance results (will be discussed in a couple of weeks)
-* Re: Reference Platforms
-** Java6 on Solaris
-*** Martin's company would like to support this
-*** [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] filed {{bug|262907}} to discuss process and practices around reference platforms
-'''Jan 21:'''
+'''January 14, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom
+* Dani: Switch to SUSE Enterprise 15, team is in favor to drop 12
+* Dani: Plan updated to remove Windows 7
+* Alex: Felix Dependencies for SCR done
+** confirm fix for {{bug|544571}}
+** releng disruptions during update, but recovered.  More disruptions expected as we update dependencies for March release.
+** broken builds, need to get a list of issues.  Seems to be more infrastructure issues.  Need to report back to the foundation. Example, the signing issue that broken the respin.
+* Some discussion about gitlab option at foundation. {{bug|537913}}
+** What happens to gerrit work flow for review?
+** Would dropping bugzilla happen or can we migrate all issues?
+** Without migration it is a no-go for us
+** Currently no plans to move Eclipse project to gitlab at this time.
-* How should we track meeting minutes topic - Wiki
-* Provisional API conventions - Jeff working on {{bug|261874}} for discussion at the AC
-** should there be a tag in the Javadoc (ie. "experimental")?
-** Jeff wants to keep the concerns "conventions" vs "Javadoc" separate
-** Jeff, "... Javadoc should not be generated for provisional ..."
-** Martin disagrees, "... need feedback and discussion for new API ..."
-* What is the '''role of the PMC lead?'''
-** global view of components/processes
-** organize architecture call, ensure we are on track
-** spark conversations (ie. M5 is feature freeze)
-* '''Reference platforms'''
-** we should choose JDK1.6, "update 11" rather than "update 4"
-** around "RC time", solidify the reference platform (it is the one we are testing on)
-'''Jan 14:'''
+'''January 7, 2020''' - McQ, Alex, Dani, Tom, Lars
+* Dani: Created initial 4.15 plan - please have a look
+* Dani: Created release record for 4.15
+* Dani: Sent a note to teams to create their 4.15 plan items/bugs
+* Dani: Do we want to drop support for Windows 7 (remove from Target Environments only)
+** Unanimous decision: Yes
+* Dani: Discuss (again, see below) resolution for stale bugs
+** We want to ask the webmaster that stale bugs are directly closed. ACTION ITEM for Lars
+** We will only auto/mass close existing stale bugs with notification turned off
+* Change rules about x-internal exports ({{bug|553709}})
+** Decision:
+** - Newly added internal packages should not use x-internal exports unless there are very good reasons
+** - For existing packages the x-internal export can be removed with PMC approval
-* PMC component ownership x bugzilla pmc authorization
+= Archive =
+* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2019 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2019]]
+* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2018 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2018]]
+* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2017 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2017]]
+* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
+* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
+* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
+* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
+* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
+* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
+* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
+* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

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Contents

Documents

Meeting Schedule

Meeting Minutes

Archive