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Difference between revisions of "Eclipse/PMC"

(June 12 meeting notes)
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= Documents =
 
= Documents =
−
 
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
  
Line 12: Line 11:
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
  
−
'''Aug 02, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
+
'''June 12, 2018''' - McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars
−
* Dani: New [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_7_draft.xml Oxygen Plan Format]
+
* RC4a looks good; hidpi fix is in place
−
** '''AI Dani''' ask Denis about aggregating the Sub Wiki's into the master page
+
** no plans for further builds at this point
−
* Alex: SWT Fragments for ARM64 etc
+
−
** Tycho doesn't support auto-selecting fragments - in contact with Jan and Tobias
+
−
** Dani: Would like to revert changes - don't want to punish people who are not interested in fragments
+
−
** Not really an SWT problem, so editing .target files would be a clean solution
+
−
** Will probably go with empty (dummy) fragments without natives, as that's the simplest solution
+
−
* Dani: SWT team - Lakshmi going to Sweden, will not be available until end 2016
+
−
** Arun is mostly back, Sravan is now on Releng
+
−
** Need to push further on building at the Foundation!!
+
−
** Alex: Getting CentOS for building ... but test machines are on SLES11, which is too old, will need at least SLES12
+
−
*** Dani: Will need an owner at the Eclipse Foundation to ensure this proceeds ! Alex agreed to further drive this.
+
−
* Target Env: Dropping REL6 -- reference platform for testing will only be REL7 (though will continue to run on REL6)
+
−
** Reducing support level this year, in order to prepare for only supporting GTK3 next year
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''June 05, 2018''' - McQ, Alex, Tom, Dani, Lars
 +
* Dani:
 +
** Image limit for help should be increased? -> Not covered in the call
 +
** Will most likely not be able to join the next call
 +
* Alex:
 +
** Support only last LTS version of Linux?
 +
*** Agreement to drop old LTS versions for 4.9 but not to change the target environment for 4.8
 +
** Dropping big Endian -> we all agreed to drop it, MQ found the email to cross, so we can remove it
 +
* Lars:
 +
** Update to EPL 2.0?
 +
*** change of about.html is trivial
 +
*** requires version updates of MANIFEST.MF and pom.xml
 +
*** Script for source update look good, Lars checked manually lots of files
 +
*** Coordindate with Jay or Noopur for the JDT UI update
 +
*** Dani suggested to announce such work via the mailing list so that everyone is aware of the work
 +
 +
** Only one N&N per release? -> Agreed to have one document per release
 +
** Do we get a name for Photon+1 -> Dani: Our SDK is called 4.9, splash screen will only be month year, planning counsil still discussing
 +
** Include Tips and Tricks in the SDK -> Not covered in the call
  
−
'''July 26, 2016''' - no meeting
 
−
'''July 19, 2016''' - no meeting
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''May 29, 2018''' - Alex, Tom, Dani
−
'''July 12, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Alex
+
* Dani:
−
* Dani: Hackathon summary
+
** Uploaded IP log
 +
** Working on issue with IP log: looks like a CQ is missing for com.google.code.atinject.tck
 +
** Finalized Photon plan
 +
** Sent Release Review material for approval to PMC mailing list
 +
** RC3 looks good so far
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''July 5, 2016''' - Lars, McQ, Alex, Dani, Martin
 
−
* Lars: SWT move to Java 8
 
−
* Alex: Initial builds of GTK 2.24 for AIX - planning to bump minimum GTK version to 2.24
 
−
** Will remove non-cairo drawing, this is where most of the breakage happens
 
−
** Ubuntu 12.04: 2.24.10 / 3.4.5
 
−
** RHEL 6: 2.24.23-6
 
−
** AIX, HP-UX, Solaris ? -- Oxygen will only focus on Linux, Windows, Mac
 
−
** Secondary Platforms: Not built on EF Hardware, but interested parties can contribute binaries
 
−
** Trying to support Platforms which can't move up to modern GTK at a similar pace as Linux is hard
 
−
** '''AI Alex''' write up a message to the Community
 
−
* Lars: {{bug|486961}} extending the Eclipse Text Editor
 
−
** Dani: Text Editor must remain unchanged, but feel free to provide a new different code editor
 
−
** https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=496114#c7
 
−
** Not against adding extension points ... but having the standard text editor adopt those is a no-go
 
−
* Dani: Build, and Hackathon
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''May 22, 2018''' - Alex, Tom, McQ, Dani
−
'''June 28, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Alex
+
* EPL 2.0
−
* Discussion about Language Server Protocol
+
** Still working with foundation on whether we can gradually move to 2.0
−
** MS sponsoring hackathon in Zurich, Dani expected to go there
+
* Will we be supporting updates from release to release in the new 3 month release cycle?
−
** The protocol has an Open Source license, but there is no Open Source Governance ... who owns the specification?
+
** Yes, unless we explicitly indicate otherwise.
 +
** To simplify this, we should have a "latest" update site
 +
** We need to make this simpler for users, but not get in the way of the EPP, OOMF, etc.
 +
** Alex to write this up in more detail
 +
** Dani reminded us that there had been a previous discussion in the planning council
 +
* Project leads have updated Photon plans
 +
** Dani will be updating the overall plan; PMC to comment on bug 529640
 +
* Dani also working on release review and IP log
 +
** PMC members to approve once it's ready
 +
* As previously discussed our first milestone will be called "M2"
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''June 21, 2016''' -
 
−
*
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''May 15, 2018''' - Alex, Tom, McQ, Lars, Dani
−
'''June 14, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars
+
* GDPR
−
* McQ: '''Mattermost / Slack''' for communication
+
** audit did not report any issues on our project pages
−
** not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
+
* Opening development for 4.9
−
* Lars: '''Master is Open'''
+
** Will branch RC2 and update master with required Releng work
−
** Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
+
** master will be open after RC3
−
** Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
+
* EPL 2.0
−
** Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes ({{bug|360703}}) is open to improve that)
+
** No plans to do anything for 4.8
−
** We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
+
** Lars will look into it
−
* Lars: '''Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ?''' - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
+
** Ideally we gradually move to 2.0
−
* McQ: '''Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che''' (from [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ide-dev/ ide-dev] mailing list and {{bug|496114}})
+
−
** The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
+
−
** The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
+
−
*** People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
+
−
** The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
+
−
** How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
+
−
*** At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
+
−
*** But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
+
−
* Dani: '''What goes into the Neon Update Releases'''
+
−
** as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
+
−
** '''AI: Dani''' will prepare a note
+
−
* Dani: '''Using Sound in Eclipse'''
+
−
** Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see {{bug|496003}})
+
−
** Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
+
−
** Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
+
−
** McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so '''that''' should really be leveraged
+
−
** Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
+
−
** Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
+
−
** Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.
+
  
−
'''June 7, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex
 
−
* no topics
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''May 8, 2018''' - Dani, Alex, Tom, McQ
−
'''May 31, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex
+
* GDPR
−
* Dani: '''IP Log'''
+
** Eclipse Project collects no information from the users on the project websites
−
** The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
+
** The Error Reporting tool, might be impacted
−
** In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
+
** Also possibly bugzilla <-- Do we need to delete bugs older than some retention period?
−
* Dani: '''Release Review'''
+
** Impossible to remove emails from all git repos (because of cloning)
−
** Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
+
** We need to be sure to respond to requests from the foundation
−
* Dani: '''Update Jetty to 3.9.3'''
+
* Jetty  
−
** Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
+
** 9.4.10 is in latest build, and help system is working
−
* Dani: '''RC4 Status Update'''
+
** they made the dependencies that were problematic optional
−
** Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command
+
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''May 24, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin
 
−
* Dani: '''IP Log Generator''' - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
 
−
* Dani: '''Release Review''' - Deadline next week (June 2)
 
−
* Dani: '''Deprecation Request from Brian'''
 
−
** Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
 
−
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date'''
 
−
** '''AGREEMENT''' to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
 
−
** Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
 
−
** Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
 
−
** This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
 
−
* Dani: '''Neon Status'''
 
−
** Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''May 1, 2018''' - cancelled due to public holiday in most Europe
−
'''May 17, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
+
−
* Dani: '''{{Bug|475184}} Neon Plan Update 2'''
+
−
** Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
+
−
** SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
+
−
*** Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
+
−
**** Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
+
−
*** Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
+
−
** Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
+
−
** '''AI Dani''' to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
+
−
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date''' - EMO: To be decided per project
+
−
** IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
+
−
** Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
+
−
*** gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
+
−
** Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
+
−
* Dani: '''Policy for Neon.Update Releases''' - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
+
−
** Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
+
−
** Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
+
−
** Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - '''decision''': discuss feature by feature at PMC
+
−
** Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
+
−
** In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
+
−
* Dani: '''Neon RC2 Builds Update'''
+
−
** Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
+
−
** Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
+
−
** GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
+
−
** Lars: {{bug|493477}} detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC
+
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''May 10, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
 
−
* Dani: '''Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases'''
 
−
** Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
 
−
* Martin: '''RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2'''
 
−
** GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
 
−
*** Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
 
−
** Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
 
−
*** Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
 
−
*** There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
 
−
*** Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
 
−
** Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
 
−
*** Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
 
−
*** Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''April 24, 2018''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Tom
−
'''May 3, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
+
* Target environments
−
* [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02598.html Brian's request on the PMC list]
+
** We will keep Java 8 and 10 and remove java 9 from the list
−
** McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
+
** remove JVMs as soon as they run out of support from target environments  - AGREED
−
** Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
+
* javax.annotation
−
** Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...
+
** Version  shipped is quite old, should we update it to newer version
−
** McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
+
** Update to latest standalone release to be tried
−
** Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
+
** Alex to try to drive this through
−
** '''ACTION''' McQ to -1 and argue why.
+
* Notify cross project about removal of ee modules from the JVM
 +
** People don't follow Java 11 work so will probably be surprised when things start to fail so we better try to spread the information
 +
** Dani will send a link to the JEP containing detailed information
 +
* Contribution guidelines
 +
** Do not open bugs for simple changes and cleanups
 +
** Actual bug fixes to be split from cleanups in separate patches so the bug commit is straight on the topic
 +
** Dani will update the wiki
 +
* Cancel May 1st call - public holiday in Europe
  
−
* Alex: '''Update on Accessibility'''
 
−
** broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
 
−
** due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
 
−
** Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
 
−
*** and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
 
−
** Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''April 17, 2018''' - Dani, Alex, McQ
−
'''April 26, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
* On Java 11...
−
* Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
+
** We are actually shipping the javax annotation support
−
* Alex: '''Accessibility''' - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
+
** Java 11 is working in 4.8, but isn't in 4.7.x
−
** Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
+
*** Tom Watson is investigating why it is not working 4.7.x
−
** McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
+
−
* Alex: '''Platform.ui generification of project'''
+
−
** Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
+
−
** McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
+
−
** Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
+
−
** Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
+
−
** '''ACTION Alex''' to prepare a message for review and then send that.
+
−
* Lars: '''Copyright discussion'''
+
−
** Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
+
−
** The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
+
−
* Dani: '''Update on FEEP'''
+
−
** Paul not reached out yet
+
−
** A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
+
−
* Dani: '''Update on M7'''
+
−
** Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
+
−
** Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full
+
  
−
<br/>
 
−
'''April 19, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)
 
−
* Dani: '''IP Stuff''' on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
 
−
* Dani: '''FEEP''' discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
 
−
** General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
 
−
** Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
 
−
** Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
 
−
* Dani: '''All PMC please review and +1 API requests''' when you find time
 
−
** McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
 
−
** '''AGREEMENT''' on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
 
−
* '''Reviews vs. Features'''
 
−
** Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora
 
  
−
<br/>
+
'''April 10, 2018''' - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex
−
'''April 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex
+
* Discussed {{bug|533390}}: Eclipse does not launch with Java 11
−
* Lars: '''Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement'''
+
−
** [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=485257#c13 bug 485257_c13] EMO: All information is in the git repos
+
−
** McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
+
−
** Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
+
−
** '''ACTION''' McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
+
  
−
* Lars: '''{{bug|490012}} Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE'''
 
−
** Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
 
−
** Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
 
−
** Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
 
−
** '''DECISION''' to get rid of the strict error per project.
 
  
−
* Dani: '''{{bug|475934}} API Change on model processing order'''
+
'''April 3, 2018''' - Tom, Dani, Mcq, Lars
−
** Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
+
* 4.7.3a update
−
** McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
+
** Delivered RC2 on Saturday, so we could fix some badness in handling Java 10 "var" support (tl;dr: rename appeared to allow you to affect "var" as if it were a type (but would not have modified the code))
−
** McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
+
** Currently think we're done
−
*** Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
+
* Naming milestones
−
*** Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
+
** As previously discussed, we will contribute the most recent I-build to the release train for the 3-week "M1".
−
*** Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
+
** We will call our first milestone (at the 6-week point) M2 so that it aligns with the release train naming.
−
** Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
+
−
** '''DECISION''' to allow making the change and announce widely.
+
  
−
* Dani: '''FEEP and EMO Hiring Update'''
 
−
** EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
 
−
** Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
 
−
** Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
 
  
−
* Dani: '''IDE-dev proposal'''
+
'''March 27, 2018''' - Tom, Dani, Mcq, Lars, Alex
−
** People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
+
* Java packages for configured Java in workspace
−
** Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
+
** Equinox no longer provides hard-coded information about execution environments.  In the past this information was used at runtime for describing the running execution environment within the OSGi Framework.  Other usecases outside the Framework started uses the Java profile data from Equinox.  Equinox no longer has any need for the hard-coded information so no longer provides it.
−
*** McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
+
** JDT and PDE have come to depend on the internal resources of the framework to get hard-coded information about execution environments
−
*** OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.
+
** JDT and PDE need to have a common way to figure out the available packages for Java versions >= Java 9
 +
** See [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=531642 531642] [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=532773 532773]
 +
* SWT clean-up
 +
** Lars reviewed the removal of Windows XP.  Built binaries locally on Windows.
 +
** Found a form data issue deleted some code that was still used
 +
** Tom - Unit tests didn’t catch the issue. Concerning?
  
−
<hr/>
+
--> Update from Lars after the call: Later testing did show that this is a bug already existing in Eclipse. 4.7 and master and not related to the patch
−
'''April 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
+
−
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
+
−
** Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
+
−
** Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
+
−
** Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
+
−
* Dani: '''Solaris 32-bit'''
+
−
** Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
+
−
** Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
+
−
*** Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
+
−
** McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
+
−
* Dani: '''New Solstice Welcome'''
+
−
** Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
+
−
** Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
+
−
** McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
+
−
* Alex: '''FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)'''
+
−
** "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
+
−
*** Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
+
−
*** It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
+
−
*** McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
+
−
** Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
+
−
*** '''AI Dani''' send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
+
−
*** '''AI Martin''' compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
+
−
** Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
+
−
** Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
+
−
*** McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
+
−
*** Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
+
−
*** McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal '''Transparency''' on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
+
−
*** McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
+
−
**** Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: '''THIS''' is what the FEEP should have adressed !
+
−
** Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
+
−
** Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
+
−
*** McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
+
−
** Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
+
−
* Lars '''Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy'''
+
−
** Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
** Lars did review and test
−
'''March 29, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex
+
** Dani - put all the code in the branch and produce a build and ask windows community to test it
−
* Lars: '''PDE Build in Maintenance''' - Officially state this ?
+
** Mcq - thinks it is a good idea
−
** PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
+
** Dani - create an official build for testing, not out of master with normal builds
−
** Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
+
** Lars - what is the risk of putting in master
−
** McQ: '''DECISION''' Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
+
** Dani - can do the build right away pre-CQ review approval. Allows for more quick testing.
−
* Lars: '''Integrate more projects into Platform UI?'''
+
** Alex, no need for a branch, can be a developer build we publish. Alex will ask Leo to do this.
−
** Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
+
* Jetty version
−
** Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
+
** Jetty added non-optional dependencies on service-loader
−
** Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
+
** Dani - got reverted, but old versions still caused Gerrit build issue
−
** '''DECISION''' to not merge projects at this time.
+
** We don’t need the service-loader for our usage of jetty
−
* Lars: '''Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list'''
+
** jetty may be making a hard requirement on an implementation of server-loader (Aries spi-fly)
−
** McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
+
** Can we move help off jetty? Will be a major undertaking.  Should figure out what it would me to do so.  Currently no interested contributer has stepped up to do the work to figure out what this would mean.
−
** Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
+
** Equinox will still need jetty for the http service implementation.  Perhaps things are more simple if this is an Equinox only dependency. Only pull in jetty if the http service implementation is needed and then pull in all of jetty and its dependencies.
−
** Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. '''AI Dani''' notify mailing list.
+
** No current plans or interested contributors for providing our own service-loader implementation.
−
* Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
+
** Our build should start resolving the capabilities are requirements which would catch issues like this early in the build.
−
** Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"
+
** Alex - can we move latest tycho to get the capability/requirements meta-data.  No objections?  Alex will move forward.
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''March 22, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
 
−
* Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
 
−
* Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
 
−
* Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
 
−
* Discussion about Che
 
−
** McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
 
−
** Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
 
−
** McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''March 20, 2018''' - Dani, McQ, Tom, Lars, Alex
−
'''March 15, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Dani: The IBM SWT team considers the Windows XP removal too risky and in addition has no capacity to look at that big change. Fine if someone else looks at the removal. The type changes will have to wait after Photon (too risky). Lars will ask Conrad and Alex will also look at the patches.
−
* Dani: '''Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)'''
+
* Databinding generification should be done early 4.9, too late for Photon.
−
* Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
+
* Dani: Eclipse support for Java 10 will be merged to the official branches starting Wednesday. A Marketplace entry for 4.7.3 will be made available once 4.7.3 is released. The first official release with Java 10 support is 4.7.3a scheduled for April 11.
−
* McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
+
−
* Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
+
−
* Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
+
−
** Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
+
−
** Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
+
−
** Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
+
−
* VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
+
−
** Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
+
−
** Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)
+
  
−
'''March 8, 2016''' - No call
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''March 13, 2018''' - Dani, McQ, Tom
−
'''March 1, 2016''' - Dani, Martin
+
* Alex had troubles to join; Lars still in vacation
−
* Dani OOO next week
+
* Dani: in the new release process we need to downgrade some milestones to "checkpoints" where we only deliver the bits
−
* Alex: '''{{bug|179924}} SSH-agent authentication''' 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
+
** ACTION ITEM: Dani to start the discussion with the PMC via e-mail and then inform cross-project
−
** Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
+
−
** Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
+
−
* EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.
+
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''February 23, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex
 
−
* Dani: '''Mars.2 is on track'''
 
−
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
 
−
** EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
 
−
* Dani: '''Update on Welcome'''
 
−
** Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
 
−
* McQ: '''Scrollbars on Windows''' and their appearance
 
−
** Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
 
−
** Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
 
−
** McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
 
−
** Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
 
−
** Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
 
−
** Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''March 6, 2018''' - McQ, Tom, Alex
 +
* Short call without any interesting topics
  
−
'''February 16, 2016''' - Alex, Dani, Martin
 
−
* no topics
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''February 27, 2018''' - Lars, Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex
 +
* JDT support for new Java releases
 +
** McQ: With current change rate and OpenJDK process we can not promise Zero day compatibility but rather release as soon as possible
 +
** Dani: effort to try convincing Oracle to tell the features a release earlier and get easier access to OpenJDK community
 +
* Dropping XP support
 +
** Dani: no objection to drop it, the question is whether to do it for Photon or delay it for next release
 +
** Mail to be posted to cross project by Dani to gather feedback
 +
** Alex: 1 week for gathering input on cross-project - '''AGREED'''
 +
** If noone speaks up with reasonable reason to keep support - preapproved by Dani, Lars and Alex
 +
** To be formally voted after the mail to cross-project
 +
* Release names
 +
** Version only, release names are irrelevant from Eclipse TLP side - '''AGREED'''
 +
* Inactive committers pruning
 +
** Lars: no access to committer emails so sending just to the mailing list
 +
** Wait 2 months for reply before action
 +
** McQ: ask foundation to send direct mails on behalf of the project, if foundation is not fine - remove committers directly
 +
** Alex: only public replies to the mailing list are accepted so people wanting to remain committers at least follow the mailing list
 +
* Tip of the day -
 +
** Lars: CQ approved, to be merged today/tomorrow
 +
** Alex: we should have it part of the build and part of the p2 repo for easy testing
 +
** Dani: unclear APIs to be removed and to be simplified so we don't end up maintaining useless parts
 +
* GTK 2 vs. 4
 +
** Alex: Gtk 4 release aiming at late 2018, it's big change in drawing so conflicts with Gtk 2 badly
 +
** Alex: Gtk 2 support to be removed in future one of the next 2 releases, whether Sep or Dec to be discussed later in the Photon release train
 +
** Alex: mail to cross project list around Photon M7 or RC when more information on both Gtk 4 release plans and SWT bugs will be known
 +
** McQ: what is our statement on supported Gtk version?
 +
** Alex: Statement should be: Once SWT switches to latest Gtk version as default, support for previous versions goes into deep maintenance mode but will kept until it starts hurting new development and support for the default version at which point to be removed.
 +
** To be discussed further.
  
−
'''February 9, 2016''' - Alex, McQ, Dani
 
−
* Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
 
−
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|466370}} Welcome Screen redesign
 
−
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|472614}} Smart Project Importer
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''February 20, 2018''' - Lars, Dani, McQ, Tom
  
−
'''February 2, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
* Dani: Update on 4.7 RC3
−
* Dani: '''Foundation Hires''' - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
+
* Lars: Can we drop Windows XP support?
−
* Dani: '''Neon M5''' went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
+
** Lars: Big contribution comes in (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=531097), dropping XP support might be a good motiviation to contribute more also to other people. Removing lots of code including the version checks will also result in a cleaner code base for maintenance and might improve performance.
−
* Dani: '''CQ Deadline''' on Feb.12 for Neon
+
** Dani: IBM investigate if they officially drop XP
−
* Dani: {{bug|486647}} for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
+
** Tom: Do we need support XP with the latest Eclipse version?
−
** With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
+
--> Pending on the answer of the IBM team, will be discussed in next weeks call
−
** Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
+
* Tom: OSGI CQs updated and approved for OSGi Service Platform 7.0 version
−
*** Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
+
−
*** We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
+
−
*** Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
+
−
** Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default
+
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''January 26, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars
 
−
* Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
 
−
* Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
 
−
* Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''February 6, 2018''' - Lars, Dani, McQ
−
'''January 19, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Lars: Can we mark MInput and MInputPart for deletion ({{bug|509868}})?
−
* Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
+
** Dani: Before approving to mark them for deletion, someone has to investigate how much work needs to be done to do it. Both have over 50 references.
−
* Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
+
*** McQ agrees
−
** Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
+
* Dani: [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ui-best-practices-working-group/msg00743.html Topic on ui-best-practices-working-group list]: Replace "..." with an ellipses Unicode character
−
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''PDE Build''' - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
+
** Looks good on Mac and is actually used by Mac OS, but less good on Windows. No info regarding Linux at this time
−
** Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement '''in the Platform'''
+
−
** Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
+
−
** Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
+
−
** Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
+
−
* Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
+
−
** Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
+
−
* SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
+
−
* Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
+
−
** Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
+
−
* Martin: '''Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?'''
+
−
** Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
+
−
** Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
+
−
*** Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
+
−
** Debian or SuSE should be OK;
+
−
** Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''January 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
−
* Dani: '''Upstaffing the PMC'''
+
−
** Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
+
−
* Dani: '''Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng''' - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
+
−
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''Remove PDE Build from our drops?'''
+
−
** Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
+
−
** McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
+
−
** Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
+
−
* Dani: {{bug|485257}} '''Copyright Policy Change''' - waiting on EMO/Legal input
+
−
* Alex: '''Updating SWT to Java7'''
+
−
* McQ: '''Travel for EclipseCon'''
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''January 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani
+
−
* Dani: '''PMC Membership'''
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''December 15, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
+
−
* No calls until Jan.5
+
−
* Looking for a new PMC member
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''December 8, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, John, Dani
+
−
* Discussed {{bug|483803}} regarding the BREE for org.eclipse.core.jobs.
+
−
** PMC decided to move it back to JavaSE-1.7 but keep databinding on JavaSE-1.8
+
−
* Dani: Reminder: {{bug|475185}} Plan Update 1 - Due with Neon M4 next week
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''December 1, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani
+
−
* McQ: The new 5-Dollar Raspberry Pi and Orion (Java server works just fine on the Pi2).
+
−
** Node server is a bit smaller but single-user and no git - nice for developing node apps though
+
−
* Dani: '''Mars.2 Endgame Plan sent'''
+
−
* Dani: {{bug|475185}} Plan Update 1 - Due with Neon M4 next week
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''November 25, 2015''' - McQ, Martin, Alex
+
−
* Alex: '''Bumping SWT to Java8'''
+
−
** Lars wants to use Lambdas {{bug|481195}}; Markus keller wants static helper methods;
+
−
** Stephan Herrmann - University Research for Thread safety through typed annotations
+
−
*** Are they ready to contribute? - Probably yes, needs to be clarified; having better dev support for Thread Safety will be a huge help
+
−
*** Dani: Thinks that going to Java8 feels a bit early for SWT, which is at the bottom of the technology stack ... would prefer 1 year later
+
−
*** John: Lambda support doesn't necessarily require SWT to be Java 8 itself (it could just be more lambda friendly)
+
−
**** Won't help with base listeners, but probably with mouse events and related .. follow up in the bugreport
+
−
**** Labdas are more than syntactic sugar, it's more efficient ... still there is more value in Thread safety annotations
+
−
*** McQ: Assumes there would be an extensive discussion on cross-project anyways ... but there is evidence now we could get value from doing this.
+
−
* Dani: '''Update on Move of platform.text'''
+
−
** Approval from IP, will soon move to platform.ui - will keep platform.text bugzilla.
+
−
* John: '''FEEP'''
+
−
** As discussed on the [[Architecture Council]]
+
−
* McQ: '''Platform Support'''
+
−
** Many Platforms are not really active - IBM keeps alive some of them, for example RHEL4
+
−
** Recent mailinglist asking for Mac 32bit, have we done enough on announcements ?
+
−
** '''Agreement''' there's no case for catering more to people who don't read announcements and follow the project. Having a mailinglist ask once in a while is OK.
+
−
** Dani: Planning Update for Neon / M4 - please comment on the bug.
+
−
*** John: Plan document is not really exhaustive on the oldest working Platform - RHEL4 surely won't work in Neon.
+
−
** Alex: Consider a "Build your Own" approach for the more obscure Platforms? - Frees us from keeping older binaries in sync
+
−
*** Did that for ARM32 and ARM64 in master - can build by just calling maven
+
−
*** McQ: Who would ever validate that scripts are still valid... (Linux community: provides no binaries at all, who validates?)
+
−
*** Alex: Providing scripts is a lot less work than providing stable and widely compatible binaries (about 1/3 of the work)
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''November 18, 2015''' - Alex, John, Dani
+
−
* Dani: EclipseCon NA 2016 submission from our team:
+
−
** https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2016/session/scaling-eclipse-high-dpi-dots-inch-monitors-challenges-and-solutions
+
−
** https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2016/session/java-9-support-eclipse
+
−
* John: mentioned FEEP
+
−
** Alex has concerns that there's not an equal opportunity for everyone
+
−
* Alex: new Lucene version: would like to put it in
+
−
** cross-projects has already been asked and we got no negative vote
+
−
** CQs are approved
+
−
** seems to be blocked by Orbit
+
−
** ==> Alex to find out why and report back next week in the PMC call
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
 
+
−
'''November 11, 2015''' - McQ, John, Dani
+
−
* Discussed new meeting time that works for Martin
+
−
** John to send a note that proposes Tuesday, 11:00 EST / 17:00 CET (starting in two weeks)
+
−
* John: Alex mentioned at EclipseCon that there's no one in SWT team overlooking cross-platform, e.g. to craft new APIs
+
−
** owning one platform is a full-time job
+
−
** would need another person in SWT
+
−
** for now one of the two co-leads needs to own that task - Dani to talk to Pradeep and the co-leads
+
−
* John to Dani: how was EclipseCon
+
−
** Dani: Great! Lots of talking to people; spent quite some time at the Hackathon; only saw 4 talks
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
 
+
−
'''October 28, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
+
−
* Dani: Discuss new meeting time that works for Martin
+
−
** decided that John will send out a doodle poll
+
−
* Dani: Discuss our position regarding the removal of committer emeritus ({{bug|480670}})
+
−
** everyone agreed that we would like to keep this for the following reasons:
+
−
*** it is a good way reward those committers who invested lots of their time and made significant contributions to a project
+
−
*** it makes no sense to remove something that currently works and ask projects to maintain this on their website
+
−
** we have to make sure that the emeritus list doesn't get stale
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
 
+
−
'''October 21, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
+
−
* Dani: so far no negative vote in the vote to move platform.text into platform.ui
+
−
* McQ: Martin can no longer join, McQ would like to move the meeting
+
−
** detailed several alternatives but no fit yet
+
−
** decided to continue the discussion in our next meeting
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
 
+
−
'''October 14, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
+
−
* Dani: Community asked to move platform.text into platform.ui (see [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-text-dev/msg00484.html https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-text-dev/msg00484.html])
+
−
** 3 solutions:
+
−
*** make the move
+
−
*** make a more radical move to merge everything into 'Platform'
+
−
*** leave things as is and let new people join platform.text
+
−
** McQ: merging everything together is not an option. Skills are too different. Resources, Debug and SWT need to be kept separate.
+
−
** Dani: fine with the move as long as it does not serve as argument to merge everything into one pot
+
−
** Alex: committers need to accept the move
+
−
** PMC decision: OK with the move but Dani to ask the platform.text and platform.ui committers whether they are both OK with it. Dani to become co-lead of Platform UI
+
−
 
+
−
* John from Board Meeting: Eclipse Foundation wants to change perception that Eclipse is just an IDE. Therefore they would like to change the name of our project ("Eclipse").
+
 
** McQ:
 
** McQ:
−
*** this will not be for free. The name is used at many places (code, webpage, Help) and also by companies in their marketing
+
*** Mac OS UI guidelines specify to use the ellipses character
−
*** maybe we just have to accept we made a mistake in the beginning and now live with it
+
*** SWT could do the right thing depending on the platform
−
*** can't think of a good name - which indicates we shouldn't change it ("Platform" is not good and "Eclipse SDK" or "Eclipse IDE" hide that it is the base for "RCP" apps)
+
* Lars: view menu, minimize and maximize buttons look bad to him. Would like to replace the view menu with ellipses
−
** decided to talk about this again in the next call
+
** Dani: Would have to change all three together. View menu is always there and not indicating an overflow
−
 
+
** McQ: Windows 10 also uses a triangle, but upwards. Current view menu is used and familiar to users for at least more than 10 years.
−
<hr/>
+
** Lars to file a bug report and send the bug number to the PMC
−
 
+
* McQ: Should discuss in one of the next meetings how JDT can handle the new release cadence for Java
−
'''October 7, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani, Martin
+
** Dani: We will see how it goes with Java 11 (18.3)
−
* Dani: '''{{bug|108668}} Default Text Encoding UTF-8 ?'''
+
* Dani: How will we name the milestones in our new new release scheme?
−
** On Linux and Mac, the Platform encoding is UTF-8 ; on Windows it's Cp1252 in most countries around the globe, even with Windows 10
+
** Consensus to start with M1 after each release.
−
** Using the Platform encoding ensures interoperability with all local tools (editors, compilers, ...)
+
** Up to planning council to decide the release naming convention. Lars: Would prefer year/month
−
*** '''Desire for UTF-8 only for Windows exchanging files with users on other systems'''
+
−
*** '''Changing the encoding of an existing workspace after the fact is a no go''' (risk of data corruption when loading/saving a file, some encodings are lossy)
+
−
*** '''Using an encoding different than the OS encoding is problematic too''' (risk of data corruption when importing or D&D files from the OS)
+
−
** Proposal 1: UTF-8 on new empty workspaces on Windows ? --&gt; Might mean that external tools don't work as expected
+
−
** Proposal 2: Make users aware (Restore Oomph Welcome, which was disabled via {{bug|459486}}) ? --&gt; But many users don't understand implications, other tools also don't do this
+
−
** Proposal 3: Ask for encoding when team-sharing since only team-shared projects cause issues (eg EGit hook) ? --&gt; But on "push" it may be too late
+
−
** Martin: Encoding describes content, so should be managed with the content (as a project setting)
+
−
*** '''--&gt; Proposal 4: Move to a model where we encourage setting the project-level encoding preference'''
+
−
**** When creating a project, set the workspace default on project level automatically --&gt; ensures that projects remain sane over their lifetime
+
−
**** For projects lacking the project-level preference, introduce a Problem Marker (Warning) with quick fix to either UTF-8 or workspace default
+
−
** '''Decision:'''
+
−
*** '''We won't change the workspace default''' -- no use breaking existing users
+
−
*** '''We'll set the project encoding pro-actively'''
+
−
** Open questions:
+
−
*** Do we need tooling to convert project from encoding A to encoding B (if project preference was set incorrectly initially) ?
+
−
*** Shall we try setting source encoding on drag-and-drop, or shall the project dictate the policy ?
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''September 30, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
+
−
* Dani: will send a note to PMC list asking to approve new Debug leadership (Sarika)
+
−
* Dani: we should finalize our API removal discussion from last week
+
−
** agreed that APIs marked for removal have to be annotated with @noreference, @noextend and @noimplement
+
−
** agreed that components should be allowed to remove API but they have to provide good reasons
+
−
** agreed that we won't allow to delete APIs simply because they are deprecated
+
−
** agreed that the PMC will decide case by case i.e. there will be no general rule
+
−
** regarding version numbering we decided to also decide this case by case
+
−
** Dani to update the removal document and have it reviewed by the PMC
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
 
+
−
'''September 23, 2015''' - Dani, John, Alex, Martin
+
−
* Dani: '''JDT Core''' - Co-lead going to step up
+
−
* Dani: '''API Removal Discussion'''
+
−
** Q1: When do we actually delete API? What's the benefit compared to the pain that we cause ?
+
−
*** Example of methods that don't do anything any more or do wrong things -- those should be removed
+
−
*** Example TableTreeViewer : Continue having the API doesn't hurt, there's no significant benefit removing it
+
−
**** Alex: TableTree was completely broken on GTK for 2-3 years ... keeping such components that don't work properly lowers the quality
+
−
**** Dani: Is there actual proof of bugs ? Or could it be working fine on Windows RCP ? If it's deprecated, people use it at own risk; do we really need to break them, if it provides value to some people on some Platforms ?
+
−
**** John: In TableTreeViewer case, EMF had some generic code (was unclear if the path was ever taken) and CDT could update easily
+
−
*** '''Summary''': scheduling for removal is OK with good arguments. Give Adopters a chance to respond before removal takes place.
+
−
 
+
−
** Q2: '''How to deal with the versions?'''
+
−
*** Dani: Updating the major causes major pain on everyone (adoption work), so this should be avoided
+
−
**** Actively developed plugins will notice source breakage when recompiling anyways -- no need to update the major for them.
+
−
**** For dormant plugins (not recompiled), everyone will break when updating the major although only few may be affected - is it worth notifying those small percentage that might break ?
+
−
**** Plugins who don't care recompiling may have to live with ClassNotFoundException
+
−
**** Tooling exists: API Use Scan Tools can discover incorrect API references that are not announced by the versions
+
−
*** '''Summary:''' Handle the Major with care -- in most cases, the cost of updating the major is not justified by the benefit.
+
−
 
+
−
** John: '''Announcement''' When thinking about removing something, we should announce that far and wide and ask for feedback
+
−
*** Martin: But which channel is as effective as actually removing it ? There's always who don't actually listen...
+
−
*** John: Still, giving a possibility to listen is important. Agree that mentioning in the release docs is not enough.
+
−
*** Dani: When making a release, also send message with a link to the removals page (for all removals that are planned)
+
−
** John: Mechanisms for maintaining binary compatibility while only breaking source compatibility (but it's a lot of work!)
+
−
*** Dani: Agree, in this case better just leave it in there
+
−
 
+
−
** Alex: What to do next time, can we remove more stuff ?
+
−
*** Martin: Should be at the discretion of the committers. They do the work. If they see the need for removal, they should be allowed to do so (as long as they play by the rules, like early announcement). Need to define what the rules are.
+
−
 
+
−
** John: There was an interesting discussion on cross-project, asking for well-known points in time where major breakage can occur
+
−
*** Eg release but without all the deprecated at certain well-known point in time eg every 3-5 years
+
−
*** '''AI''' ''continue that discussion on the Architecture Council''
+
−
 
+
−
** '''Summary:''' Essentially do what we did, plus more communication upfront, allow people to respond before deletion happens (to avoid churn)
+
−
*** Committers still need to be able to delete stuff when they find it necessary.  
+
−
*** Updating the major (or not) to be decided case by case, but in many cases "breaking everyone" is not justified against "notifying few dormant plugins".
+
−
 
+
−
* Alex: '''Bumping the minimum GTK version again''' (may cause issues on Platforms like AIX -- to be discussed when it's time)
+
−
 
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''September 16, 2015''' - John, Martin
+
−
* John: '''API Removal Discussion'''
+
−
** No urgency now -- changes have been reverted for now, and scheduled for 2017
+
−
** Updating the major of a bundle knowingly breaks everyone/most adopters
+
−
*** In the past, breaking changes have often been small enough to work without increasing the major
+
−
*** One can argue that removing TableTreeViewer is big enough to warrant updating the major
+
−
** Versioning packages has not been done in the past due to the huge upcoming maintenance effort when starting to do so
+
−
** "Release Version" is decoupled from "bundle versions" already (and may move to date-based versions eg "2016.1" with rolling updates moving forward
+
−
** --&gt; will have more discussion next week
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''September 9, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John, McQ
+
−
* John: '''Planning Council Updates'''
+
−
** 4 planned releases (March, June, September, December -- essentially end of each quarter) with flexible contents
+
−
** Mid December rather than end to avoid churn, so this one is a little shorter
+
−
** Only June is "major" - allowing to drop off, or breaking changes; others are "minor"
+
−
** McQ want to reduce the number of simultaneous streams -- if "master" is more stable more often that's OK, but avoid too many "live" streams
+
−
 
+
−
* Software is getting more important - would be good to better support multicore
+
−
 
+
−
* John: '''IntelliJ change in licensing / sales model'''
+
−
** Many eclipse-positive comments on the announcement blog
+
−
** Possibility putting Money on Eclipse Development may become interesting for companies in this context
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''September 2, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
+
−
* Dani: '''EclipseDay India''' on Saturday, 200 attendees wanted to join, hat to cut to 150
+
−
** Keynote by Mike Milinkovich - large Community
+
−
 
+
−
* Dani: '''Policy for and Mars.2'''
+
−
** Do we want to stick to the "Service" model or allow feature updates ?
+
−
** Mars.1 winding down -- sticking to "Critical Fixes Only" for that
+
−
** Too much in the maintenance stream causes risk of defocus ... are there relevant features that are worth the extra effort ?
+
−
** Dani: Suggests to require PMC Approval for adding a feature in - example candidate: Improvements for HiDPI
+
−
*** Also: What about version number (2nd digit version update), IP disclosures, Translations ... ?
+
−
*** Dani would suggest sticking to 3rd digit update only in the marketing release number; but a Release Review would be needed
+
−
 
+
−
'''August 26, 2015''' -
+
−
* Dani/Alex/Martin can't join (traveling)
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''August 19, 2015''' - Alex, Dani
+
−
* nothing to discuss
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''August 12, 2015''' - John, Dani
+
−
* John asked whether we run on Windows 10
+
−
** Dani: yes, the team already tested on it a few weeks ago. Runs smoothly one bug so far. Browser widget works despite new browser (Edge)
+
−
** ''Martin (added after the meeting): A CDT update is needed to keep the Terminal from hanging (see {{bug|474327}}, will release with Mars.1). Got some duplicates already. Workaround is switch the Win10 Console to "Legacy Mode".''
+
−
* Dani would like to get plan feedback by Friday EOD
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''August 5, 2015''' - McQ, John, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
−
* PC meeting later today (planning calendar, calling SR1/2 "Update 1/2" instead
+
−
** adding another release before Christmas might be a next step - even if Platform contributes identical bits
+
−
 
+
−
* Dani: '''[[Eclipse/Mars Retrospective]]'''
+
−
** Move more components to Tycho build? (Would still need Ant to test against final build/bits)
+
−
** Contribution Review Dates: joined by some components but not all
+
−
** Error Reporter: Interesting to look at top ten but the sheer number is too big
+
−
*** John - based on Orion experience with similar error reporting :
+
−
**** Looking at changes in reported issues is more interesting than looking at reports themselves
+
−
**** Reports help getting contributions (But, Dani finds that "just adding a null check" is often not what's desired for Java .. though helpful for Javascript)
+
−
 
+
−
* Dani: Foundation IP team doesn't require updating copyright notices per contribution any more (since that information is in git anyways)
+
−
** The Project has to agree
+
−
** Some contributors like to have their name in the source -- that's OK, no requirement to remove author information, but no requirement to add either
+
−
** Won't remove existing lists (they never claimed to be complete, since there always was the "...and others" copyright notice
+
−
** Dani to sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02422.html request for voting]
+
−
 
+
−
* Dani: Switching to '''Jetty 9.3.x (which requires JRE 8)'''
+
−
** JRE 8 from Oracle (and also from IBM) exists for all Reference Platforms
+
−
** Except Solaris, because we only support Solaris 32-bit and the JRE only exists as 64-bit
+
−
** But the Plan for Neon is to have 64-bit Solaris support
+
−
** New Language features in Java 8 are adopted, contributors would like to start using Java 8
+
−
** McQ: In the past, staying on older Java was desired to enable more widespread use ... today, this argument does not seem valid any more, in fact likely more contributions / community is enabled by moving to Java 8
+
−
** Dani: Only concern is some "non reference" Platforms like HP-UX might not have JREs initially; but that's OK as long as the reference platforms are good
+
−
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move to JRE 8 and allow projects to use Java 8 in their code.
+
−
 
+
−
* Dani: Looking for a contributor for SWT improvements for GTK3
+
−
 
+
−
* Martin: '''libwebkitgtk-3 on Ubuntu 14 forcing GTK 2''' not working ?
+
−
** Alex: Using libwebkitgtk-4 which is much more stable, but not implementing the full SWT API
+
−
** Most distros don't ship libwebkit for gtk-2 any more since it's not supported upstream any more and has many security issues
+
−
 
+
−
* Alex: '''Build SWT at the Foundation'''
+
−
** Work with the Foundation going well, expect to have RHEL machines deployed at the foundation next month
+
−
 
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''July 15, 22 and 29, 2015''' -- no meeting
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''July 8, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Alex
+
−
* John: '''Cross-Language Tooling Discussion''' on the eclipse.org-architecture-council and ide-dev mailing lists
+
−
* decided to cancel the upcoming July meetings
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''July 1, 2015''' -- no meeting
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''June 24, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
+
−
* Dani: '''Java 9''' - <a href="http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/eclipse-java%E2%84%A2-9-support-beta-mars">EAR Feature Patch</a> on the Marketplace NOW
+
−
** No JARs any more - JRE is doing things internally using "jimage" format; updated search etc to create projects and work against them
+
−
** If the Jimage filesystem provider isn't backported, one has to run the IDE on Java9 in order to code Java9
+
−
** Modules are just a list of packages (and can refer to other modules) - no real JSR describing the plan yet - seems like just a replacement of "Profiles" (and JARs)
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''June 17, 2015''' - Dani, John, Martin, Alex
+
−
* John: '''Mars''' Platform in good shape for Mars - EPP respin for Error Reporting
+
−
* Dani: '''Crashes with Java 8''' - Potentially will add to the online README
+
−
** Happens in the JIT, with latest Oracle Java 8 (with 8 Cores and very specific circumstances)
+
−
** See {{Bug|465693}} - Probably https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8078262
+
−
* Alex: '''XDG Application''' - looks like Docker but a similar idea
+
−
** Environment description of the runtime - helps specifying the line-up of library versions that we test against and use
+
−
** Big part of GNOME / GTK already pushing for it, might make sense to consider alignment
+
−
** GNOME working towards compiling with a really old compiler, such that the physically identical bits can run against a large set of distros
+
−
** See https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps
+
−
** But if you want to try it out please read https://blogs.gnome.org/alexl/2015/06/17/testing-rawhide-apps-using-xdg-app/
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
 
+
−
'''June 10, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
−
* Dani: 4.5RC4 looking good, no more fixes planned
+
−
* Dani: Working on Java 9 feature patch
+
−
* Alex: PC discussing a change in the release train
+
−
** Current common ground seems to be a request for more release points, and projects could decide whether they do features or maintenance
+
−
** From Platform point of view, stability is key. Some key contributors not interested doing
+
−
** Martin: How to also cater to contributors who want their contributions released soon ?
+
−
*** Martin Idea: With Tycho, building the Platform is easier so ask contributors build themselves
+
−
*** Or, open up a new "experimental" stream ?
+
−
*** Dani Idea: Market milestone builds differently, as "fully consumable" would serve the same purpose
+
−
* Martin: Tested eclipse-installer (Oomph), looking really really good now
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''June 3, 2015''' - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
−
* Dani: '''Mars Endgame'''
+
−
* Dani: Please vote for release review
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''May 20, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
−
* Dani: '''Security Update''' - Platform work done, Orbit updated, reached out to Wayne and other affected projects.
+
−
* Dani: '''RC2 Build''' - too many bugs assigned, Lars on Vacation, Dani will fill in
+
−
* McQ: '''Too Many Platforms Built?''' - Who's really hurt by "too many builds" ?
+
−
** Will meet with Mike & Foundation tomorrow, Alex is also interested (Dani to check).
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''May 13, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Martin
+
−
* John, Dani - Mars Endgame looking good
+
−
* Alex - {{bug|465874}} Lucene 5 looking good, almost done - Ready to commit as soon as CQs are in and Mars+1 is open
+
−
* JDT for Java 9 - will need a wider discussion with EMO on make it easier to publish the work, e.g. in normal builds
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''May 6, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
−
* Dani: '''Java 9 timing''' - slight delay
+
−
* Dani: RC1 preps
+
−
** 2-day test pass went fine - 2 severe issues found, will be addressed
+
−
** Request to watch PMC mailing list for API exceptions and defect approvals
+
−
* John: '''PC Discussion on Release Cycles'''
+
−
** Multiple releases per year PLUS maintenance streams seems like overkill
+
−
** Consider an approach like Orion that just moves constantly forward
+
−
** Especially for the Platform, being rock solid is most important. Still to attract new contributors we need to allow more frequent "feature updates".
+
−
*** A model where both "stable/maintenance" _and_ "features" are contributed to the train might be too much work/overhead.
+
−
*** Consider a model like Ubuntu, ... with some release numbers being "stable/LTS base" and others being "in-between feature releases" ?
+
−
*** Consider a model like LTS for maintenance fixes / aside mainstream just moving forward ?
+
−
 
+
−
 
+
−
'''April 15, 2015''' - Dani, John, McQ, Alex, Martin
+
−
* Dani: '''Java 1.7 Changes'''
+
−
** Some bundles have been moved to a 1.7 BREE by new committers, even after API freeze
+
−
** Rule has always been "we move up when there's a reason to move up". We won't move up without reason.
+
−
*** Dani: Moving the BREE may even cause API changes, so should only be done when incrementing the minor version (5% risk)
+
−
*** Alex: Such updates allow staying current and not get to "rewrite is needed" state (thus needed) but has to happen before M6 (API freeze)
+
−
** Alex suggest not accepting additional changes, but not reverting either (to avoid churn)
+
−
* Dani: '''Batik 1.6 update'''
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''April 8, 2015''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, John, McQ
+
−
* Dani: '''Batik''' - Platform is good, Train may need to update, perhaps updating one bundle only would suffice. John will follow up.
+
−
* Alex: '''SWT for GTK 3 News'''
+
−
** GTK port finally decoupled from X11 - it renders on Wayland now, can switch the renderer to a pure HTML one
+
−
** This opens up opportunities (but depends on hosts that have GTK).
+
−
 
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''April 1, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani (Regrets: John travelling)
+
−
* Alex: '''GTK 3.16''' seeing issues again - fixed some crashes, but scrolling is still entirely broken
+
−
** SWT uses a number of things that GTK declares as "implementation detail"
+
−
* PMC approval on piggyback CQ's (AC question forwarded by John)
+
−
** Dani sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02332.html our position] to John in order to update the AC
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''March 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
+
−
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - Bigger this year due to LocationTech (750 attendees)
+
−
** Mark Reinhold keynote and "after-session" on Java 9
+
−
** Much interest in Orion JS tooling / editor, also on desktop
+
−
** Public face of Eclipse Platform at the conference was much more diverse than in the past (Lars Vogel, Max Anderson, Google ...)
+
−
* Dani: {{bug|458730}} '''Mars Plan Update'''
+
−
* Dani: '''e4 project leadership''' approved by EMO
+
−
* Dani: Szymon Brandys resigned as Platform/Resources co-lead. Need to +1 on the mailing list
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
 
+
−
'''March 11, 2015 - no meeting (EclipseCon)'''
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
 
+
−
'''March 4, 2015''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, John
+
−
* Dani: '''e4 leadership''' - Dani will volunteer to co-lead
+
−
* Dani: '''BREEs''' - documentation about how to pick the EE
+
−
** Recommending the "earliest generally supported JRE that provides the capabilities you need"
+
−
** Would like an URL on the page pointing to the most recent plan (talking to Wayne)
+
−
* John: '''greatfix contest'''
+
−
** Dani: Working well - some very small contributions but some also very large (eg Customize Perspective fixes)
+
−
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - numbers looking good; join Planning Council Breakfast as delegate for Dani
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''February 25, 2015''' - Dani, Martin McQ
+
−
* No topics
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''February 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
−
* Alex: '''Building Native Launchers'''
+
−
** Current way of building is kinda unpredictable - even if getting some agreement on versions to use, results are kinda unpredictable
+
−
** Pushing towards Hudson RHEL builders at least at the EF to get more transparency and automation - attempt to mimic the infrastructure at IBM
+
−
** Looking at 3 primary architectures (at the EF) for Linux vs. secondary architectures (non-public builders potentially)
+
−
* Dani: Great initiative, but other (non-EF) builders must not be broken
+
−
** EF doesn't allow any commercial tools (but currently, e.g. Windows launchers are built with MSVS)
+
−
* Alex is willing to spend time to get Linux builds running; but can't help with other architectures
+
−
** Martin: great approach - for Windows, using a cross-compiler on Linux might be interesting (after Linux native works)
+
−
* Alex: This is just phase one - getting rid of the binaries in git repos might be phase 2 (since the checked-in binaries easily cause inconsistencies between Java and Native side)
+
−
** Martin: Checked-in binaries help consumers and contributors who just want to make a Java change
+
−
** Dani: Checked-in binaries are also used for comparing build results for expected vs accidental changes
+
−
 
+
−
* Alex: '''{{bug|459399}} - Policy for recommended minimum execution environments for bundles'''
+
−
** Dani: It works today
+
−
*** To run Eclipse, Java 8 or Java 9 can be used (minimum BREE has no impact)
+
−
*** To modify the source, a new JRE can be used but then the Execution Environment Descriptions need to be installed
+
−
** Policy as discussed in the past: Each project can increase the BREE if there is a real need (such as generifying) and no upstream clients are broken
+
−
*** But don't change the BREE without justification -- changing the BREE always has some effect, such as new warnings that would need to be addressed
+
−
*** Suggested BREE for new bundles has already been changed by Lars
+
−
* Alex: Even for bundles in "maintenance mode", old BREE causes issues for people who build from source (who have to change compilers etc)
+
−
* No conclusion so far (Alex and Dani disagree)
+
−
 
+
−
* Dani: '''e4 leadership'''
+
−
** Mature bits being moved to Eclipse - e4 remaining as an incubator to keep alive for experiments with low entry barrier
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''February 11, 2015''' - Dani, Alex
+
−
* no topics
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
  
−
'''February 4, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
 
−
* Alex: With GTK-3.15.[345] , Eclipse is entirely unusable
 
−
** Alex has some dirty workarounds to make it start, but still many issues like trees not painted, ...
 
−
** Crash on startup identified to be GTK bug. Fix to be released in 3.15.6 https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=edec64cda3d4518b4e87d5ea5d287d4570ba9933
 
−
* Dani: Working on Solaris 64-bit
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''January 30, 2018''' - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom
 +
* General Updates (Dani)
 +
** Shipped M5, still working some p2 issues
 +
** RC1 for Neon.3 next week, may need API changes after the freeze for junit 5 support updates
 +
** Discussion about the incubation for Java.  Ongoing thread in jdt-dev list https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/jdt-dev/msg00964.html.  The incubation features will be part of the release specification which implies they need to be implemented to be compliant.  Spend time putting them into a release only to pull out later if they don’t finalize.  Not clear there are tests added to the TCK.  Alex asks if this effects us for Java 10, no not for Java 10.  Java 10 only has local type reference, not huge delta of function from Java 9.  No incubation in Java 10.  But incubation may affect us for Java 11.
 +
* Info about infrastructure (Alex)
 +
** Foundation push to move to Jenkins.  Releng has moved, uncovered issues with rest API and token exchange … disabled for now for Jenkins.  Issue is being worked but only can be fixed once all is moved to Jenkins.
 +
** Platform HIPP moving to Jenkins tomorrow.  Will be some downtime, should be less than an hour or so.  May cause several issue.  Issues in non-standard jobs with multiple repos etc.  For Gerrit verifications should be fine.  Let Alex know if there are issues.  Alex to send a note when the migration occurs.
 +
** p2 issue is real.  Other issues are pressing (infrastucture/build).  Todor has a bug that he should be looking at.  Not something happening in the past, but now the capabilities are being resolved.  Issues happened with a hand crafted p2.inf file.  Hopefully will scope down the p2.inf files.  Alex to drive to determine if a respin is needed.
 +
** Need to monitor the p2 issue, determine how many are broken.  Cannot just break 100s of folks without serious consideration.  Why not revert?  Alex says it is not an option and we should do everything possible to fix.
 +
** Lars asks about nominating more committers, perhaps that were rejected in the past.  Now the Eclipse PMC can overlook the nomination process.  Work with existing contributors showing interest and look for opportunities to sponsor them for committership.
 +
* Tip of the day (Clippy)
 +
** See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-ui-dev/msg08006.html Tips Framework]
 +
** Tip of the Day or (Clippy) in coming contribution … looking for integration M6?
 +
** Lars thinks it is worth it.  Dani disables such things by default, and also Lars.  Alex find the function interesting.  Others are also reviewing the patch. 
 +
** Lars is moving forward with it.  If it is very easy to disable and is stable on all platforms then it should be good.
 +
** Is there a concern about a solution that requires network … it doesn’t appear to be a concern.
  
−
'''January 28, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, John
 
−
* Dani: Switch Mac OS X 10.9 with 10.10 in Mars target environments
 
−
** No objections
 
−
* Alex: Looking for any Eclipse related activity @Fosdem
 
−
<hr/>
 
  
−
'''January 21, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
'''January 16, 2018''' - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom
−
* Alex: '''Process for allowing non-committers extended bugzilla privileges (for bug triage)?'''
+
* Native builds at eclipse.org status (Lars):
−
** Dani: Yes a process exists. Send bugzilla username to Dani.
+
** Dani: swt is done for some time already
−
* Alex: '''New resource for helping with SWT'''
+
** Dani: launchers after M5 is released to prevent breakage
−
* Dani: '''Platform/UI co-lead'''
+
* GTK launcher changes (Alex):
−
* Dani: Solaris: Java 8 will only support 64 bits on both Intel and SPARC --&gt; IBM SWT Team considering to invest in getting patches in for 64-bit Solaris
+
** Changes to not rely on X11 atoms but on dbus ready for review
 +
** Linux only as no other GTK platforms are currently built
 +
* Equinox CQs (Tom):
 +
** P2 capabilities patch from Todor and felix.scr update
 +
** Slow process risking M5
 +
** Alex: Ping Sharon asking for speedup if possible
 +
* Updates from Dani:
 +
** Photon plan update - BREE to be part of the build info
 +
** End game - Oxygen.3 and M5 - send to the list
 +
** Running tests against Java 9
 +
* Java 10 eclipse release (Dani):
 +
** Oxygen.3a or marketplace feature only - Agreement for oxygen.3a
 +
** Dani: Local Variable type inference support in a branch
 +
** Future releases - to be aligned with JVM releases if they prove to release on time
 +
* BREE updates recomendations
 +
** Dani: There are reasons to stay on older BREE
 +
** Alex: ease of getting jvm is the main concern here - if a contributor can't get jvm at that version easily we can't call it supported
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''January 14, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 
−
* Dani: Update on Platform/UI Leadership: Daniel Rolka left IBM and for now has no time to contribute. He stepped down as co-lead and nominated Lars Vogel
 
−
* Dani: Solaris x86 64-bit support - patches exist, but no machine available. No luck to get one from Oracle or via Eclipse Foundation. We will not support Solaris x86 64-bit unless someone makes a machine available
 
−
<hr/>
 
  
−
'''January 7, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''Januar 09, 2018''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
−
* Dani: '''Platform/UI Leadership'''
+
* Updates from Dani:
−
* John: '''Git security issue''' - pick up a patch for Jgit in the packages before SR2? - Mostly an EPP
+
** Ian Skerrett is leaving the Eclipse foundation
−
<hr/>
+
** Dani got nominated as committer representive
 +
* Planning council update
 +
** Dani: low participation in the last calls
 +
** Dani will talk with Melanie about it
 +
** Input  required for the planning council for the API and feature freezes for the platform
 +
* API and feature freeze policy in platform
 +
*** Alex: API and feature freeze in platform should be RC1, except breaking API which should be done in milestone build
 +
*** everyone agrees to Alex suggestion-> agreed
 +
* Alex: SWT linux currently uses X-Windows specific API, which does not work on Wayland. This will be moved to a DBUS API to open file and open URL
 +
* Dani: Plan update, biggest change is for the component plan
 +
** Equinox plan has been added
 +
** Manual generated BREE list has been dropped from the plan. This list is still automatically generated for every I-Build
 +
* Launcher and natives build move from IBM to the foundation still in progress
 +
** ({{bug|528230}}) Build FileSystem native component on Eclipse Foundation Infra
 +
** ({{bug|528230}}) Build launcher on Eclipse Foundation Infra
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2017 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2017]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]

Revision as of 11:15, 12 June 2018

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

June 12, 2018 - McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • RC4a looks good; hidpi fix is in place
    • no plans for further builds at this point

June 05, 2018 - McQ, Alex, Tom, Dani, Lars

  • Dani:
    • Image limit for help should be increased? -> Not covered in the call
    • Will most likely not be able to join the next call
  • Alex:
    • Support only last LTS version of Linux?
      • Agreement to drop old LTS versions for 4.9 but not to change the target environment for 4.8
    • Dropping big Endian -> we all agreed to drop it, MQ found the email to cross, so we can remove it
  • Lars:
    • Update to EPL 2.0?
      • change of about.html is trivial
      • requires version updates of MANIFEST.MF and pom.xml
      • Script for source update look good, Lars checked manually lots of files
      • Coordindate with Jay or Noopur for the JDT UI update
      • Dani suggested to announce such work via the mailing list so that everyone is aware of the work
    • Only one N&N per release? -> Agreed to have one document per release
    • Do we get a name for Photon+1 -> Dani: Our SDK is called 4.9, splash screen will only be month year, planning counsil still discussing
    • Include Tips and Tricks in the SDK -> Not covered in the call


May 29, 2018 - Alex, Tom, Dani

  • Dani:
    • Uploaded IP log
    • Working on issue with IP log: looks like a CQ is missing for com.google.code.atinject.tck
    • Finalized Photon plan
    • Sent Release Review material for approval to PMC mailing list
    • RC3 looks good so far


May 22, 2018 - Alex, Tom, McQ, Dani

  • EPL 2.0
    • Still working with foundation on whether we can gradually move to 2.0
  • Will we be supporting updates from release to release in the new 3 month release cycle?
    • Yes, unless we explicitly indicate otherwise.
    • To simplify this, we should have a "latest" update site
    • We need to make this simpler for users, but not get in the way of the EPP, OOMF, etc.
    • Alex to write this up in more detail
    • Dani reminded us that there had been a previous discussion in the planning council
  • Project leads have updated Photon plans
    • Dani will be updating the overall plan; PMC to comment on bug 529640
  • Dani also working on release review and IP log
    • PMC members to approve once it's ready
  • As previously discussed our first milestone will be called "M2"


May 15, 2018 - Alex, Tom, McQ, Lars, Dani

  • GDPR
    • audit did not report any issues on our project pages
  • Opening development for 4.9
    • Will branch RC2 and update master with required Releng work
    • master will be open after RC3
  • EPL 2.0
    • No plans to do anything for 4.8
    • Lars will look into it
    • Ideally we gradually move to 2.0


May 8, 2018 - Dani, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • GDPR
    • Eclipse Project collects no information from the users on the project websites
    • The Error Reporting tool, might be impacted
    • Also possibly bugzilla <-- Do we need to delete bugs older than some retention period?
    • Impossible to remove emails from all git repos (because of cloning)
    • We need to be sure to respond to requests from the foundation
  • Jetty
    • 9.4.10 is in latest build, and help system is working
    • they made the dependencies that were problematic optional


May 1, 2018 - cancelled due to public holiday in most Europe


April 24, 2018 - Dani, Lars, Alex, Tom

  • Target environments
    • We will keep Java 8 and 10 and remove java 9 from the list
    • remove JVMs as soon as they run out of support from target environments - AGREED
  • javax.annotation
    • Version shipped is quite old, should we update it to newer version
    • Update to latest standalone release to be tried
    • Alex to try to drive this through
  • Notify cross project about removal of ee modules from the JVM
    • People don't follow Java 11 work so will probably be surprised when things start to fail so we better try to spread the information
    • Dani will send a link to the JEP containing detailed information
  • Contribution guidelines
    • Do not open bugs for simple changes and cleanups
    • Actual bug fixes to be split from cleanups in separate patches so the bug commit is straight on the topic
    • Dani will update the wiki
  • Cancel May 1st call - public holiday in Europe


April 17, 2018 - Dani, Alex, McQ

  • On Java 11...
    • We are actually shipping the javax annotation support
    • Java 11 is working in 4.8, but isn't in 4.7.x
      • Tom Watson is investigating why it is not working 4.7.x


April 10, 2018 - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Discussed bug 533390: Eclipse does not launch with Java 11


April 3, 2018 - Tom, Dani, Mcq, Lars

  • 4.7.3a update
    • Delivered RC2 on Saturday, so we could fix some badness in handling Java 10 "var" support (tl;dr: rename appeared to allow you to affect "var" as if it were a type (but would not have modified the code))
    • Currently think we're done
  • Naming milestones
    • As previously discussed, we will contribute the most recent I-build to the release train for the 3-week "M1".
    • We will call our first milestone (at the 6-week point) M2 so that it aligns with the release train naming.


March 27, 2018 - Tom, Dani, Mcq, Lars, Alex

  • Java packages for configured Java in workspace
    • Equinox no longer provides hard-coded information about execution environments. In the past this information was used at runtime for describing the running execution environment within the OSGi Framework. Other usecases outside the Framework started uses the Java profile data from Equinox. Equinox no longer has any need for the hard-coded information so no longer provides it.
    • JDT and PDE have come to depend on the internal resources of the framework to get hard-coded information about execution environments
    • JDT and PDE need to have a common way to figure out the available packages for Java versions >= Java 9
    • See 531642 532773
  • SWT clean-up
    • Lars reviewed the removal of Windows XP. Built binaries locally on Windows.
    • Found a form data issue deleted some code that was still used
    • Tom - Unit tests didn’t catch the issue. Concerning?

--> Update from Lars after the call: Later testing did show that this is a bug already existing in Eclipse. 4.7 and master and not related to the patch

    • Lars did review and test
    • Dani - put all the code in the branch and produce a build and ask windows community to test it
    • Mcq - thinks it is a good idea
    • Dani - create an official build for testing, not out of master with normal builds
    • Lars - what is the risk of putting in master
    • Dani - can do the build right away pre-CQ review approval. Allows for more quick testing.
    • Alex, no need for a branch, can be a developer build we publish. Alex will ask Leo to do this.
  • Jetty version
    • Jetty added non-optional dependencies on service-loader
    • Dani - got reverted, but old versions still caused Gerrit build issue
    • We don’t need the service-loader for our usage of jetty
    • jetty may be making a hard requirement on an implementation of server-loader (Aries spi-fly)
    • Can we move help off jetty? Will be a major undertaking. Should figure out what it would me to do so. Currently no interested contributer has stepped up to do the work to figure out what this would mean.
    • Equinox will still need jetty for the http service implementation. Perhaps things are more simple if this is an Equinox only dependency. Only pull in jetty if the http service implementation is needed and then pull in all of jetty and its dependencies.
    • No current plans or interested contributors for providing our own service-loader implementation.
    • Our build should start resolving the capabilities are requirements which would catch issues like this early in the build.
    • Alex - can we move latest tycho to get the capability/requirements meta-data. No objections? Alex will move forward.


March 20, 2018 - Dani, McQ, Tom, Lars, Alex

  • Dani: The IBM SWT team considers the Windows XP removal too risky and in addition has no capacity to look at that big change. Fine if someone else looks at the removal. The type changes will have to wait after Photon (too risky). Lars will ask Conrad and Alex will also look at the patches.
  • Databinding generification should be done early 4.9, too late for Photon.
  • Dani: Eclipse support for Java 10 will be merged to the official branches starting Wednesday. A Marketplace entry for 4.7.3 will be made available once 4.7.3 is released. The first official release with Java 10 support is 4.7.3a scheduled for April 11.


March 13, 2018 - Dani, McQ, Tom

  • Alex had troubles to join; Lars still in vacation
  • Dani: in the new release process we need to downgrade some milestones to "checkpoints" where we only deliver the bits
    • ACTION ITEM: Dani to start the discussion with the PMC via e-mail and then inform cross-project


March 6, 2018 - McQ, Tom, Alex

  • Short call without any interesting topics


February 27, 2018 - Lars, Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex

  • JDT support for new Java releases
    • McQ: With current change rate and OpenJDK process we can not promise Zero day compatibility but rather release as soon as possible
    • Dani: effort to try convincing Oracle to tell the features a release earlier and get easier access to OpenJDK community
  • Dropping XP support
    • Dani: no objection to drop it, the question is whether to do it for Photon or delay it for next release
    • Mail to be posted to cross project by Dani to gather feedback
    • Alex: 1 week for gathering input on cross-project - AGREED
    • If noone speaks up with reasonable reason to keep support - preapproved by Dani, Lars and Alex
    • To be formally voted after the mail to cross-project
  • Release names
    • Version only, release names are irrelevant from Eclipse TLP side - AGREED
  • Inactive committers pruning
    • Lars: no access to committer emails so sending just to the mailing list
    • Wait 2 months for reply before action
    • McQ: ask foundation to send direct mails on behalf of the project, if foundation is not fine - remove committers directly
    • Alex: only public replies to the mailing list are accepted so people wanting to remain committers at least follow the mailing list
  • Tip of the day -
    • Lars: CQ approved, to be merged today/tomorrow
    • Alex: we should have it part of the build and part of the p2 repo for easy testing
    • Dani: unclear APIs to be removed and to be simplified so we don't end up maintaining useless parts
  • GTK 2 vs. 4
    • Alex: Gtk 4 release aiming at late 2018, it's big change in drawing so conflicts with Gtk 2 badly
    • Alex: Gtk 2 support to be removed in future one of the next 2 releases, whether Sep or Dec to be discussed later in the Photon release train
    • Alex: mail to cross project list around Photon M7 or RC when more information on both Gtk 4 release plans and SWT bugs will be known
    • McQ: what is our statement on supported Gtk version?
    • Alex: Statement should be: Once SWT switches to latest Gtk version as default, support for previous versions goes into deep maintenance mode but will kept until it starts hurting new development and support for the default version at which point to be removed.
    • To be discussed further.


February 20, 2018 - Lars, Dani, McQ, Tom

  • Dani: Update on 4.7 RC3
  • Lars: Can we drop Windows XP support?
    • Lars: Big contribution comes in (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=531097), dropping XP support might be a good motiviation to contribute more also to other people. Removing lots of code including the version checks will also result in a cleaner code base for maintenance and might improve performance.
    • Dani: IBM investigate if they officially drop XP
    • Tom: Do we need support XP with the latest Eclipse version?

--> Pending on the answer of the IBM team, will be discussed in next weeks call

  • Tom: OSGI CQs updated and approved for OSGi Service Platform 7.0 version


February 6, 2018 - Lars, Dani, McQ

  • Lars: Can we mark MInput and MInputPart for deletion (bug 509868)?
    • Dani: Before approving to mark them for deletion, someone has to investigate how much work needs to be done to do it. Both have over 50 references.
      • McQ agrees
  • Dani: Topic on ui-best-practices-working-group list: Replace "..." with an ellipses Unicode character
    • Looks good on Mac and is actually used by Mac OS, but less good on Windows. No info regarding Linux at this time
    • McQ:
      • Mac OS UI guidelines specify to use the ellipses character
      • SWT could do the right thing depending on the platform
  • Lars: view menu, minimize and maximize buttons look bad to him. Would like to replace the view menu with ellipses
    • Dani: Would have to change all three together. View menu is always there and not indicating an overflow
    • McQ: Windows 10 also uses a triangle, but upwards. Current view menu is used and familiar to users for at least more than 10 years.
    • Lars to file a bug report and send the bug number to the PMC
  • McQ: Should discuss in one of the next meetings how JDT can handle the new release cadence for Java
    • Dani: We will see how it goes with Java 11 (18.3)
  • Dani: How will we name the milestones in our new new release scheme?
    • Consensus to start with M1 after each release.
    • Up to planning council to decide the release naming convention. Lars: Would prefer year/month


January 30, 2018 - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • General Updates (Dani)
    • Shipped M5, still working some p2 issues
    • RC1 for Neon.3 next week, may need API changes after the freeze for junit 5 support updates
    • Discussion about the incubation for Java. Ongoing thread in jdt-dev list https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/jdt-dev/msg00964.html. The incubation features will be part of the release specification which implies they need to be implemented to be compliant. Spend time putting them into a release only to pull out later if they don’t finalize. Not clear there are tests added to the TCK. Alex asks if this effects us for Java 10, no not for Java 10. Java 10 only has local type reference, not huge delta of function from Java 9. No incubation in Java 10. But incubation may affect us for Java 11.
  • Info about infrastructure (Alex)
    • Foundation push to move to Jenkins. Releng has moved, uncovered issues with rest API and token exchange … disabled for now for Jenkins. Issue is being worked but only can be fixed once all is moved to Jenkins.
    • Platform HIPP moving to Jenkins tomorrow. Will be some downtime, should be less than an hour or so. May cause several issue. Issues in non-standard jobs with multiple repos etc. For Gerrit verifications should be fine. Let Alex know if there are issues. Alex to send a note when the migration occurs.
    • p2 issue is real. Other issues are pressing (infrastucture/build). Todor has a bug that he should be looking at. Not something happening in the past, but now the capabilities are being resolved. Issues happened with a hand crafted p2.inf file. Hopefully will scope down the p2.inf files. Alex to drive to determine if a respin is needed.
    • Need to monitor the p2 issue, determine how many are broken. Cannot just break 100s of folks without serious consideration. Why not revert? Alex says it is not an option and we should do everything possible to fix.
    • Lars asks about nominating more committers, perhaps that were rejected in the past. Now the Eclipse PMC can overlook the nomination process. Work with existing contributors showing interest and look for opportunities to sponsor them for committership.
  • Tip of the day (Clippy)
    • See Tips Framework
    • Tip of the Day or (Clippy) in coming contribution … looking for integration M6?
    • Lars thinks it is worth it. Dani disables such things by default, and also Lars. Alex find the function interesting. Others are also reviewing the patch.
    • Lars is moving forward with it. If it is very easy to disable and is stable on all platforms then it should be good.
    • Is there a concern about a solution that requires network … it doesn’t appear to be a concern.


January 16, 2018 - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • Native builds at eclipse.org status (Lars):
    • Dani: swt is done for some time already
    • Dani: launchers after M5 is released to prevent breakage
  • GTK launcher changes (Alex):
    • Changes to not rely on X11 atoms but on dbus ready for review
    • Linux only as no other GTK platforms are currently built
  • Equinox CQs (Tom):
    • P2 capabilities patch from Todor and felix.scr update
    • Slow process risking M5
    • Alex: Ping Sharon asking for speedup if possible
  • Updates from Dani:
    • Photon plan update - BREE to be part of the build info
    • End game - Oxygen.3 and M5 - send to the list
    • Running tests against Java 9
  • Java 10 eclipse release (Dani):
    • Oxygen.3a or marketplace feature only - Agreement for oxygen.3a
    • Dani: Local Variable type inference support in a branch
    • Future releases - to be aligned with JVM releases if they prove to release on time
  • BREE updates recomendations
    • Dani: There are reasons to stay on older BREE
    • Alex: ease of getting jvm is the main concern here - if a contributor can't get jvm at that version easily we can't call it supported


Januar 09, 2018 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Updates from Dani:
    • Ian Skerrett is leaving the Eclipse foundation
    • Dani got nominated as committer representive
  • Planning council update
    • Dani: low participation in the last calls
    • Dani will talk with Melanie about it
    • Input required for the planning council for the API and feature freezes for the platform
  • API and feature freeze policy in platform
      • Alex: API and feature freeze in platform should be RC1, except breaking API which should be done in milestone build
      • everyone agrees to Alex suggestion-> agreed
  • Alex: SWT linux currently uses X-Windows specific API, which does not work on Wayland. This will be moved to a DBUS API to open file and open URL
  • Dani: Plan update, biggest change is for the component plan
    • Equinox plan has been added
    • Manual generated BREE list has been dropped from the plan. This list is still automatically generated for every I-Build
  • Launcher and natives build move from IBM to the foundation still in progress
    • (bug 528230) Build FileSystem native component on Eclipse Foundation Infra
    • (bug 528230) Build launcher on Eclipse Foundation Infra

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