Skip to main content

Notice: this Wiki will be going read only early in 2024 and edits will no longer be possible. Please see: https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/wikis/Wiki-shutdown-plan for the plan.

Jump to: navigation, search

Difference between revisions of "Eclipse/PMC"

(Meeting Minutes)
(June 12 meeting notes)
(578 intermediate revisions by 14 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
 
= Documents =
 
= Documents =
 
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
  
Line 8: Line 7:
 
= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
  
'''Sep 29, 2010:''' - Dani, John, Martin, Jeff
+
'''June 12, 2018''' - McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars
* John: UNIX groups - ongoing, now with Webmaster
+
* RC4a looks good; hidpi fix is in place
* John: Parts of e4 project now moving to git - may pave the way for more git on Eclipse later on
+
** no plans for further builds at this point
** PDE Build Fetch factory for git currently exists as a patch on a bug, should live in egit - {{bug|289838}}
+
 
* Jeff: Download page - Cluttered and hard to navigate - {{bug|326444}} for Equinox: too many columns, too much text
+
'''June 05, 2018''' - McQ, Alex, Tom, Dani, Lars
** Make it easier to find "the latest"; update the look to be more consistent with main web pages
+
* Dani:
** Most people just get the SDK, or the SWT downloads
+
** Image limit for help should be increased? -> Not covered in the call
** '''AI''' File bug for discussion
+
** Will most likely not be able to join the next call
 +
* Alex:
 +
** Support only last LTS version of Linux?
 +
*** Agreement to drop old LTS versions for 4.9 but not to change the target environment for 4.8
 +
** Dropping big Endian -> we all agreed to drop it, MQ found the email to cross, so we can remove it
 +
* Lars:
 +
** Update to EPL 2.0?
 +
*** change of about.html is trivial
 +
*** requires version updates of MANIFEST.MF and pom.xml
 +
*** Script for source update look good, Lars checked manually lots of files
 +
*** Coordindate with Jay or Noopur for the JDT UI update
 +
*** Dani suggested to announce such work via the mailing list so that everyone is aware of the work
 +
 +
** Only one N&N per release? -> Agreed to have one document per release
 +
** Do we get a name for Photon+1 -> Dani: Our SDK is called 4.9, splash screen will only be month year, planning counsil still discussing
 +
** Include Tips and Tricks in the SDK -> Not covered in the call
  
<hr/>
 
'''Sep 22, 2010:''' - Dani, Jeff, Martin, John
 
* John: 3.7 -> 4.1 EPP upgrade - idea is to just upgrade the Platform (not a long-term, but interim idea)
 
** Goal is increasing the usage of 4.1, without further producing full EPP's
 
* Dani: How to move forward with UNIX group restructuring
 
** Wait for the build.e.o problems to get resolved, then John to follow up with Denis (via the discussion bug), once there is a concrete suggestion of what is desired in terms of ACL's
 
* John: M2a rebuild - anything we can do to reduce the chance of getting such bugs in the future?
 
** No-Reference analysis warnings were turned off in the past since there were too many false positives
 
** Dani - Bytecode are independent of warnings, there's really 2 issues:
 
*** (a) compiler only changed every 6 weeks, earlier compiler adoption would have found this earlier
 
*** (b) bytecode comparison after builds ?
 
*** John: using the new p2 every week turned out to be too volatile (but compiler may be more stable)
 
**** Goal of updating basebuilder more often would be adding "compile Eclipse" as a big testcase for the compiler
 
** '''AI John''' to discuss with Kim
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''May 29, 2018''' - Alex, Tom, Dani
'''Sep 15, 2010:''' - Dani, Jeff, McQ, John
+
* Dani:
* Moving up to ICU4J 4.6 which requires Java 5
+
** Uploaded IP log
** We are stuck on old version of ICU4J unless we can move to Java 5
+
** Working on issue with IP log: looks like a CQ is missing for com.google.code.atinject.tck
** We previously agreed moving to Java 5 is ok - no complaints here
+
** Finalized Photon plan
** Need to document the steps for someone running RCP on Foundation 1.1 - have to switch to older version of ICU4J
+
** Sent Release Review material for approval to PMC mailing list
** This will enable us to consume future ICU4J versions that may be able to split large timezone data into a separately consumable piece.
+
** RC3 looks good so far
* Unix groups
+
** Preference is to avoid multiple votes
+
** Try to use ACLs to enable multiple groups for some directories
+
** If this is too complex, then have two groups but not expose two votes. I.e., when a committer is approved, we need to tell webmasters to add "common" along with whatever component they are being added to.
+
* Release train and 3.7/4.1 split
+
** Planning council working out how to handle 3.7/4.1 split
+
** Some argued that having 4.1 EPP packages would greatly improve adoption
+
** Being able to "one click" upgrade from 3.7->4.1 EPP not too bad and greatly reduces dis/mirror footprint (for example a link in welcome page)
+
  
<hr/>
 
  
'''Sep 8, 2010:''' - John, Jeff, McQ
+
'''May 22, 2018''' - Alex, Tom, McQ, Dani
* Discussed reception of 4.0 release.
+
* EPL 2.0
** We probably overdid the caution and it appears to be getting very little use
+
** Still working with foundation on whether we can gradually move to 2.0
** Will encourage Eclipse project developers to use 4.1 builds to help find and iron out bugs
+
* Will we be supporting updates from release to release in the new 3 month release cycle?
* Discussed [[Eclipse/PMC/Unix Groups]] again
+
** Yes, unless we explicitly indicate otherwise.
** Need to resolve with webmasters how to handle "common" things. Entered {{bug|324772}} to iron out details with web master
+
** To simplify this, we should have a "latest" update site
* John asked for input on draft Indigo plan
+
** We need to make this simpler for users, but not get in the way of the EPP, OOMF, etc.
* Discussed how to better handle ECF contributions
+
** Alex to write this up in more detail
** Either ECF needs to be done earlier, or we have to live with our dates slipping
+
** Dani reminded us that there had been a previous discussion in the planning council
** Need to work together to see if we can improve contribution process
+
* Project leads have updated Photon plans
** We need to at least make sure they are in the loop on our build and end-game schedules
+
** Dani will be updating the overall plan; PMC to comment on bug 529640
* Jeff mentioned target platform management in PDE has a few holes. Will have a follow-up call to dive into details with PDE committers.
+
* Dani also working on release review and IP log
 +
** PMC members to approve once it's ready
 +
* As previously discussed our first milestone will be called "M2"
  
  
<hr/>
+
'''May 15, 2018''' - Alex, Tom, McQ, Lars, Dani
 +
* GDPR
 +
** audit did not report any issues on our project pages
 +
* Opening development for 4.9
 +
** Will branch RC2 and update master with required Releng work
 +
** master will be open after RC3
 +
* EPL 2.0
 +
** No plans to do anything for 4.8
 +
** Lars will look into it
 +
** Ideally we gradually move to 2.0
  
'''Sep 1, 2010:''' - John, Jeff, Dani
 
* Discussed [[Eclipse/PMC/Unix Groups]]
 
** Agreed with general direction about greatly reducing number of groups
 
** Dani proposed some changes to text and search components, which have since been incorporated into the doc
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''May 8, 2018''' - Dani, Alex, Tom, McQ
 +
* GDPR
 +
** Eclipse Project collects no information from the users on the project websites
 +
** The Error Reporting tool, might be impacted
 +
** Also possibly bugzilla <-- Do we need to delete bugs older than some retention period?
 +
** Impossible to remove emails from all git repos (because of cloning)
 +
** We need to be sure to respond to requests from the foundation
 +
* Jetty
 +
** 9.4.10 is in latest build, and help system is working
 +
** they made the dependencies that were problematic optional
  
'''Aug 25, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin
 
* Dani - 3.6.1 looks ok - no other topics
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''May 1, 2018''' - cancelled due to public holiday in most Europe
'''Aug 18, 2010:''' - Dani, John, Martin
+
* John - '''Eclipse 3.x and 4.0''' and the Release Train
+
** Early feedback from 4.0 adopters is that most stuff actually works when dropping in binaries (talking binary compatibility, not source compatibility)
+
** Martin is concerned that dropping binaries built against 3.x into 4.0 will fail late at runtime only, due to use of internals
+
** John suggests API usage scan to understand issues early
+
** Martin is more interested in source compatibility (build against 4.0) - can this be made super simple?
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''Aug 11, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani
 
* McQ - '''3.7 Planning Process''' - input requested from all committers about plan items
 
* '''Eclipse 4.0 Feedback''' - not too much seen, neither good nor bad
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''April 24, 2018''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Tom
'''Aug 4, 2010:''' - meeting cancelled
+
* Target environments
 +
** We will keep Java 8 and 10 and remove java 9 from the list
 +
** remove JVMs as soon as they run out of support from target environments  - AGREED
 +
* javax.annotation
 +
** Version  shipped is quite old, should we update it to newer version
 +
** Update to latest standalone release to be tried
 +
** Alex to try to drive this through
 +
* Notify cross project about removal of ee modules from the JVM
 +
** People don't follow Java 11 work so will probably be surprised when things start to fail so we better try to spread the information
 +
** Dani will send a link to the JEP containing detailed information
 +
* Contribution guidelines
 +
** Do not open bugs for simple changes and cleanups
 +
** Actual bug fixes to be split from cleanups in separate patches so the bug commit is straight on the topic
 +
** Dani will update the wiki
 +
* Cancel May 1st call - public holiday in Europe
  
<hr/>
 
'''Jul 28, 2010:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani, Jeff
 
* Discussed process for handling security patches
 
** If patches had metadata that would allow them to be flagged as security or "critical" patches, then p2 could automatically apply them on startup
 
** Deluxe solution would use out of process installer to be able to repair corrupt install that can't even start
 
** Simple solution is to put patches in the eclipse/updates/3.6 repository and users need to apply them manually
 
* McQ gave a summary of the state of the Eclipse SDK 4.0 release (see his later [http://dev.eclipse.org/blogs/mcqjustmcq/2010/07/28/growing-the-future/ blog post]).
 
* Discussed possibility of facet work moving to e4
 
** Need to be clear on what would be required to migrate it to the platform
 
** Have separate call with Konstantin to discuss
 
* Discussed state of builds moving to Foundation infrastructure
 
** Could explore migrating build to different build technology such as Buckminster or Tycho if it provides any benefit
 
** Concern about the build/test machines becoming a bottleneck as more projects move to it
 
** Still need to run performance tests on IBM hardware for now because virtualized machine is not consistent enough
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''April 17, 2018''' - Dani, Alex, McQ
'''Jul 21, 2010:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani
+
* On Java 11...
* McQ - '''State of Eclipse 4.0'''
+
** We are actually shipping the javax annotation support
** Not where we'd like us to be, but converging fast and there seem no issues blocking shipping
+
** Java 11 is working in 4.8, but isn't in 4.7.x
** Not slowing down people any more, and get some new capabilities (view tear-off etc)
+
*** Tom Watson is investigating why it is not working 4.7.x
** Should we have 3.7 and 4.1 release trains? allow projects to choose? - Discussions ongoing with PC, Foundation (enough resources to support this?)
+
* John - '''Eclipse 4.0 Release Review'''
+
** Need to go public now to have 1-week review period
+
* Dani - need to start publishing the '''3.6.1 freeze plan'''
+
* Dani - '''separate groups for resources and runtime'''
+
** Too small micro-components make operation harder
+
** McQ 0, Martin 0, Dani +1, John +1 (but strive for more simplicity on other areas)
+
* Vacations - McQ 2 weeks off starting Aug 16
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''Jul 14, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani
 
* Dani - '''Problem launching Oracle/Sun jre6u21 on Windows'''
 
** {{bug|319514}} Quickly runs out of Permgen space, because the vendor name has changed and so the -XXPermGen flag is not appended
 
** Put in a quick workaround for 3.6.1, patch ahead of time (some people wanted a 3.6a but we don't think that's worth the ripple)
 
** Most commercial products ship a VM, so likely not as bad as thought
 
*** Very natural that failure can happen when we don't control the VMs and the VM has custom arguments
 
** Only a windows issue for now (Linux parses version and looks for "hotspot")
 
** Martin: Placing a .hotspotrc file somewhere is another possible workaround
 
** Dani and Martin propose updating the FAQ, adding a Readme section, circulating the information about workarounds should be sufficient.
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''April 10, 2018''' - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex
'''Jul 7, 2010:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, John, Dani
+
* Discussed {{bug|533390}}: Eclipse does not launch with Java 11
* McQ - '''Graduating e4 without changing the name'''
+
** Jeff - a little effort upfront on messaging may pay off really big in the longer run ... picking up 4.0 without proper messaging may end up in lot negative press
+
** eg messages about the state of Performance, BIDI, ... cf Eclipse 4.0 "Early Adopter Release"
+
* Dani - '''BREE to 1.5 for JDT-UI''', what is the process?
+
** '''approved''', all in favor, eat our own dogfood, 1.6 does not provide much benefit
+
* Dani - '''Checkin Policies for 3.6.1 Maintenance Stream'''
+
** We should have more control over what goes into M-builds .. what's the least intrusive way doing so?
+
** McQ suggests M7-ish policies + endgame . Dani suggests mandatory 1-committer code review. Martin requires fix verification.
+
** Bring up the topic on Arch call, since committers are affected .. the goal is keeping quality high and having change control.
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''Jun 30, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, John
 
* No negative response yet about switching to Java 6 reference platforms
 
** Components free to move up but not a free-for-all. Justify reasons for moving up on eclipse-pmc mailing list.
 
** In many cases there is little added benefit of Java 6 so Java 5 is more likely as a bundle execution environment
 
* 4.0 release and bundle/package naming
 
** Agreed that we will not migrate bundle/package namespaces at this time
 
** e4 API is not ready so the separation is helpful to divide it from the mature API
 
** It is not simply a package name issue, there are also class names containing "e4". Need to work through the process of merging the new API with the old, but this will take time
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''April 3, 2018''' - Tom, Dani, Mcq, Lars
'''Jun 23, 2010:''' - Jeff, John
+
* 4.7.3a update
* No topics
+
** Delivered RC2 on Saturday, so we could fix some badness in handling Java 10 "var" support (tl;dr: rename appeared to allow you to affect "var" as if it were a type (but would not have modified the code))
 +
** Currently think we're done
 +
* Naming milestones
 +
** As previously discussed, we will contribute the most recent I-build to the release train for the 3-week "M1".
 +
** We will call our first milestone (at the 6-week point) M2 so that it aligns with the release train naming.
  
<hr/>
 
'''Jun 16, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Jeff
 
* McQ - '''Java 4 going away''' (was EOL since October 2008, Java 5 EOL since October 2009)
 
** Dani: Don't bump up any BREBump up to 1.5 only if needed
 
** Jeff: If moving off 1.4, why not move up to 1.6 ?
 
*** Reality is that we want the tiny Foundatation-1.1 or the big wad, and 1.5 is no better than 1.6
 
*** Equinox may start using Generics and down-compile to 1.4 ... think about what's in ercp
 
** Start a cross-project discussion... question is whether everyone who depends on Platform has 1.6 VM Support
 
** Martin has no problem with 1.6, suggest asking on cross-project / some of the bigger players (e.g. Jetty, Modeling, ...)
 
*** McQ to ask Boris bring up with the Board
 
* Martin, Jeff, Dani vacation next 2 weeks (likely not on the call).
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 27, 2018''' - Tom, Dani, Mcq, Lars, Alex
'''Jun 9, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, McQ, John
+
* Java packages for configured Java in workspace
* Dani - '''Approval for Docs''' - flexibility around docs is good, but after RC4 is too late.
+
** Equinox no longer provides hard-coded information about execution environments.  In the past this information was used at runtime for describing the running execution environment within the OSGi Framework.  Other usecases outside the Framework started uses the Java profile data from Equinox.  Equinox no longer has any need for the hard-coded information so no longer provides it.
* Dani - '''Re-Opening HEAD''' - basically OK, to be discussed at the Arch call.
+
** JDT and PDE have come to depend on the internal resources of the framework to get hard-coded information about execution environments
* McQ - '''Shutting down status messages''' for rest of the month except for really noteworthy things.
+
** JDT and PDE need to have a common way to figure out the available packages for Java versions >= Java 9
 +
** See [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=531642 531642] [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=532773 532773]
 +
* SWT clean-up
 +
** Lars reviewed the removal of Windows XP.  Built binaries locally on Windows.
 +
** Found a form data issue deleted some code that was still used
 +
** Tom - Unit tests didn’t catch the issue. Concerning?
  
<hr/>
+
--> Update from Lars after the call: Later testing did show that this is a bug already existing in Eclipse. 4.7 and master and not related to the patch
'''Jun 2, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, McQ, John, McQ
+
* Dani - '''ECF Issues''': Why does Eclipse have a process with Approvals while ECF does not. At the moment, there is a mutual dependency.
+
** Once we decided to consume them, we have no control over their rules.
+
** Our only option is not consuming late changes from them (and thus burn the community and them).
+
** John - there are some cases where we could push back a bit more (without going to the limit of not consuming at all).
+
** Problems have been due to the build (and not due to quality issues in their code). But this doesn't change the fact that '''ANY''' late binding change is work and risk and should thus be pushed back if possible.
+
** McQ would like to be more flexible accepting changes .. are we becoming too stiff? ie. do what we can to mitigate risk, but live with taking risk .. that's part of the Eclipse Way.
+
* John - '''Builds after RC4'''
+
** Need PMC agreement. John going to discuss cross-project criteria.
+
** McQ doesn't want to tie our release to the winds of others (outside Eclipse) getting back to us or not. '''We should not be asking cross-project for approval.'''
+
** Each project is going to do what makes most sense to them (including us). In favor of having the conversation, but not asking for approval.
+
* John - '''When to start 3.7 and 3.6.1 builds''' - defer to next week.
+
  
<hr/>
+
** Lars did review and test
'''May 26, 2010:''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Jeff, John
+
** Dani - put all the code in the branch and produce a build and ask windows community to test it
* Brief meeting. John just mentions that there's surprisingly many "Critical" bugs. Maybe just a triage problem. Will bring up in Arch call.
+
** Mcq - thinks it is a good idea
 +
** Dani - create an official build for testing, not out of master with normal builds
 +
** Lars - what is the risk of putting in master
 +
** Dani - can do the build right away pre-CQ review approval. Allows for more quick testing.
 +
** Alex, no need for a branch, can be a developer build we publish. Alex will ask Leo to do this.
 +
* Jetty version
 +
** Jetty added non-optional dependencies on service-loader
 +
** Dani - got reverted, but old versions still caused Gerrit build issue
 +
** We don’t need the service-loader for our usage of jetty
 +
** jetty may be making a hard requirement on an implementation of server-loader (Aries spi-fly)
 +
** Can we move help off jetty? Will be a major undertaking.  Should figure out what it would me to do so.  Currently no interested contributer has stepped up to do the work to figure out what this would mean.
 +
** Equinox will still need jetty for the http service implementation.  Perhaps things are more simple if this is an Equinox only dependency.  Only pull in jetty if the http service implementation is needed and then pull in all of jetty and its dependencies.
 +
** No current plans or interested contributors for providing our own service-loader implementation.
 +
** Our build should start resolving the capabilities are requirements which would catch issues like this early in the build.
 +
** Alex - can we move latest tycho to get the capability/requirements meta-data.  No objections?  Alex will move forward.
  
<hr/>
 
'''May 19, 2010:''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Jeff, John
 
* John - {{bug|27930}} '''Naming of Eclipse Classic'''
 
** McQ - No other package on that page is the output of a single project, would want to see Eclipse SDK removed from packages page
 
** Jeff - "RCP/Plugin Developer" used to be direct replacements (SDK + Mylyn + XML Editor), but now also includes RAP (217MB)
 
** Dani - Some people go to downloads/ and then look for a milestone
 
** "Development Builds" tab provides access to milestones of packages; "Projects" tab provides access to direct project output.
 
** '''Resolution:''' 650.000 people have downloaded classic (#2 download), even scrolling down - changing this is a waste.
 
* Dani - {{bug|313524}} '''Preference for new API Constant''' for the Formatter (also [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=59891#c45 bug 59891 comment 45] and onwards)
 
** Some people don't like the new look (method wrapping) - currently no way to have the formatter behave the same in 3.5 and 3.6
 
** '''Resolution:''' pmc+ since little effort avoids lot of churn. Keeping the functionality without allowing to disable is a no-go.
 
* Martin - '''Feedback channel for removing API''' process (e.g. {{bug|311931}})
 
** '''Resolution:''' Add a suggestion to the [[Eclipse/API Central/API Removal Process]] page to start fresh for the feedback channel if there's a lot of discussion on the existing bug (by bugzilla clone)
 
* John - '''4.0 topics'''
 
** FYI: Ian created a draft of a [http://www.eclipse.org/helios/eclipse-sdk-4.0/ landing page]. Working on a [http://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse/Eclipse_SDK_4.0_FAQ release FAQ] page
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 20, 2018''' - Dani, McQ, Tom, Lars, Alex
'''May 12, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, John, Jeff, Dani
+
* Dani: The IBM SWT team considers the Windows XP removal too risky and in addition has no capacity to look at that big change. Fine if someone else looks at the removal. The type changes will have to wait after Photon (too risky). Lars will ask Conrad and Alex will also look at the patches.
* Remaining work for Release - John: Checklist (Docs, collective N&N etc... IP Logs end May)
+
* Databinding generification should be done early 4.9, too late for Photon.
** [[Eclipse/Release checklist]], and [[Eclipse Doc Checklist]]. '''AI Dani''' has another one for Docs - will update for 3.6 and send offline
+
* Dani: Eclipse support for Java 10 will be merged to the official branches starting Wednesday. A Marketplace entry for 4.7.3 will be made available once 4.7.3 is released. The first official release with Java 10 support is 4.7.3a scheduled for April 11.
** [[Platform-releng-faq#Eclipse_Release_checklist]] also links to [[3.3 Release checklist]]
+
* IP Logs for subprojects - '''AI Jeff''' talk to Wayne to allow IP logs for container projects, also ask Boris (committer rep) - unsure if we have a committer rep on the IP Advisory committee, but we should have
+
* Eclipse SDK 4.0 Naming
+
** John - from Mailing List discussion, "Eclipse SDK 4.0 Early Adopter Release" seemed to be the favorite one
+
** Next year's release will be 4.1. Ian going to prepare a landing page to send the right message, working with Boris and John
+
* API Deletion - luceneSearchParticipant
+
** Deprecation should include a migration path (if it exists).
+
** Will document deletions in the migration guide (and probably also in the README)
+
** Martin: Add a Bugzilla Keyword for API Deletions, will make it very easy to create a query for all pending API deletions
+
** Jeff: Whatever we do, current deletions should be examplary.
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''May 5, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, John, Dani
 
* Martin - {{bug|309059}} root cert validity? - Tom investigating, no new info
 
* Martin - How to mark issues for [[Polish3.6]] (UNC issues, Launcher vmargs {{bug|149994}}) - who sets the Bugzilla polish kwd?
 
** Martin to bring up again, and add to the Polish Wiki, and add the polish keyword on bz.
 
** Any Eclipse Platform committer is allowed to suggest items that bug him personally on the polish list (against any component).
 
* John - Helios Plan update
 
* John - API Removal
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 13, 2018''' - Dani, McQ, Tom
'''Apr 28, 2010:''' - Jeff, Martin, John, McQ, Dani
+
* Alex had troubles to join; Lars still in vacation
* Martin - '''[[Eclipse/UNC_Paths]]''' - testing for 3.6 ? Bugzilla: [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwords&short_desc=unc&classification=Eclipse&classification=RT&product=Equinox&product=Platform&product=JDT&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&product=PDE All open with UNC in the summary]
+
* Dani: in the new release process we need to downgrade some milestones to "checkpoints" where we only deliver the bits
** Especially {{bug|289322}} and {{bug|262601}} are blocking for Martin, because these make it impossible to have Eclipse installed on an UNC path (common scenario in large organizations)
+
** ACTION ITEM: Dani to start the discussion with the PMC via e-mail and then inform cross-project
** Consensus: ''No concerted effort'', there are likely other more pressing issues; but ''investigate and prioritize what we find, and fix if possible''.
+
** <b><i>Running on UNC is considered a Polish item</i></b>.
+
* Jeff, McQ - '''Eclipse 4.0 Naming'''
+
** Suggestion: "Eclipse 4.0 Indigo Preview"
+
** McQ: Don't want to send a negative message - it ''is'' usable though add-on support may be missing
+
** John: This is a new release of the Platform, but not all of Eclipse Foundation technology... unsure how to phrase that into a release name
+
** Jeff: Based on this, putting Indigo into the name is a negative and may trigger false assumptions
+
** McQ: ''Eclipse SDK 4.0 Developer Release'' - sends the right message
+
** Jeff: '''Come up with 3 or 4 suggestions and bounce these around'''. Start a public discussion. Check with other OSS projects, e.g. Andrew Overholt
+
* McQ - '''1.5 BREE for Resources to support Unicode Characters'''
+
** Suggest everything on top of the base RCP move up to 1.5
+
** Jeff: "Move when you need to and not before" - when do we "need to"
+
* John - '''[[Eclipse/API Central/API Removal Process]]
+
** Just a compilation of things discussed before. '''Discuss on the Mailing List'''
+
* McQ - '''Pascal as the OBR spec lead'''
+
** From point of view of the Eclipse Project, can't imagine what value we'd get from participating in OBR spec. IBM might care.
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''Apr 21, 2010:''' - Jeff, Martin, John, Dani, McQ
 
* John - extended '''2 day test pass''' for M7 on Mon and Tue
 
* Jeff - '''Eclipse 4.0 naming'''
 
** McQ hopes that Eclipse 4.0 will be good enough for public consumption - whatever we call it, it needs to be what we call it
 
** Jeff - the message should be that it's (a) new, (b) cool, (c) not quite done yet
 
** McQ - 4.0 won't be as performant as 3.x. Users will see the new cool presentation, but other than that it's like 3.6
 
** Biggest problem will be people who don't follow the Community and just get 4.0 because they heard about it
 
** Jeff - Comes down to setting expectations. Naming is one aspect of this, there's other aspects.
 
** John - Ian organized an e4-evangelist call.
 
** McQ - Most people will just consume the release train (Helios) anyways, and will notice that 4.0 is "different".
 
* Martin - {{bug|306822}} '''IncrementalBuilder.getRule()''' API addition: Ask James whether CDT Helios can pick up the change
 
* Martin - '''James for committer''' - move to public policy of only considering committed contributions
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 6, 2018''' - McQ, Tom, Alex
'''Apr 14, 2010:''' - John, Dani, Martin, Jeff
+
* Short call without any interesting topics
* Martin - '''Startup Performance tests''': Cold start after reboot is 20% slower in 3.6m6 compared to 3.5.2 (while warm start is about the same)
+
** Manual test: Reboot a minimal WinXP system, then start into a fresh workspace with 1 JDT project (20 files) 1 open file in the editor.
+
** 28 sec in 3.5.2 but 36 sec in 3.6m6. Will file a bug tomorrow.
+
** John: There are 2 startup performance tests in the suite, but they are unreliable. In 3.6, changed the way tests are installed (director rather than dropins), thus baseline is not helpful.
+
** Jeff: Try have a look at {{Bug|308157}} Jarfile cache now limited to 100. Reason might just be cycling through more Jar's.
+
* John, Dani - '''Polish List'''
+
* John - '''e4 plan update'''. Waiting on McQ, wants an accurate list on what's graduating.
+
** Jeff - once something is in 4.0 you cannot remove in 4.x so better think twice before graduating.
+
** John - Eclipse SDK 4.0 has a minimal API exposed, most new stuff is under the covers so this is not so much of an issue.
+
** Jeff - More important to have Eclipse SDK 4.0 rock solid than have it feature complete. Do few things well rather than many things poorly.
+
** John - '''Self-hosting a day on Eclipse 4.0 without blocking issues!''' (But much to be polished, bugs, errors in the log etc).
+
* Jeff - '''Runtime SDK's vs "targets"''': The label SDK is ambiguous. Want to install tooling + target platform together, but cannot do that today.
+
** Today, we use "SDK" for (a) tools+source+docs, or (b) runtime+source+docs. None of both is really an SDK.
+
** Better call the target stuff just "targets".
+
** Developer docs as part of the tooling is wrong ... should be associated with targets instead.
+
** John: p2 does have the ability to install into multiple profiles (plan = multiple profiles)... might be (mis)used for this, is it a hack?
+
** Jeff: Much target provisioning was deferred off 3.6
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''Apr 7, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff, John
 
* Builds - short call
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''February 27, 2018''' - Lars, Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex
'''Mar 31, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
* JDT support for new Java releases
* Martin - '''EclipseCon Report'''
+
** McQ: With current change rate and OpenJDK process we can not promise Zero day compatibility but rather release as soon as possible
** General industry trend pointing up (as perceived on the exhibition floor); e4 rover great success! other strong topics included build (b3, buckminster, maven / tycho / nexus, athena...)
+
** Dani: effort to try convincing Oracle to tell the features a release earlier and get easier access to OpenJDK community
** e4 message in general very well positioned and received; git / egit was another hot topic
+
* Dropping XP support
** Modeling and RT projects in an up trend, other projects seem to go slightly down in terms of Community interest as well as commercial involvement
+
** Dani: no objection to drop it, the question is whether to do it for Photon or delay it for next release
** API Tutorial very well received, Martin going to work on a "Wiki" version of checklists and guidance, will notify AC when done
+
** Mail to be posted to cross project by Dani to gather feedback
* John - Eclipse 4.0: Timing for graduating e4 incubation material into the Eclipse proper
+
** Alex: 1 week for gathering input on cross-project - '''AGREED'''
** We cannot ship an Eclipse SDK out of the e4 project
+
** If noone speaks up with reasonable reason to keep support - preapproved by Dani, Lars and Alex
** Want a clear message what Eclipse 4.0 is... probably "includes incubating components" like some EPP packages
+
** To be formally voted after the mail to cross-project
** '''AI John''' talk to Mike and Ian
+
* Release names
 +
** Version only, release names are irrelevant from Eclipse TLP side - '''AGREED'''
 +
* Inactive committers pruning
 +
** Lars: no access to committer emails so sending just to the mailing list
 +
** Wait 2 months for reply before action
 +
** McQ: ask foundation to send direct mails on behalf of the project, if foundation is not fine - remove committers directly
 +
** Alex: only public replies to the mailing list are accepted so people wanting to remain committers at least follow the mailing list
 +
* Tip of the day -
 +
** Lars: CQ approved, to be merged today/tomorrow
 +
** Alex: we should have it part of the build and part of the p2 repo for easy testing
 +
** Dani: unclear APIs to be removed and to be simplified so we don't end up maintaining useless parts
 +
* GTK 2 vs. 4
 +
** Alex: Gtk 4 release aiming at late 2018, it's big change in drawing so conflicts with Gtk 2 badly
 +
** Alex: Gtk 2 support to be removed in future one of the next 2 releases, whether Sep or Dec to be discussed later in the Photon release train
 +
** Alex: mail to cross project list around Photon M7 or RC when more information on both Gtk 4 release plans and SWT bugs will be known
 +
** McQ: what is our statement on supported Gtk version?
 +
** Alex: Statement should be: Once SWT switches to latest Gtk version as default, support for previous versions goes into deep maintenance mode but will kept until it starts hurting new development and support for the default version at which point to be removed.
 +
** To be discussed further.
  
<hr/>
 
'''Mar 17, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
 
* McQ: '''git''' vs CVS: Should there be contributions by Platform on Egit?
 
** Martin: Don't know how well egit proceeded recently, Boris might know more... important point is that the major workflows are perfect. Looks like the major workflows have been identified already.
 
* Martin: '''WebkitGTK / MiniBrowser''': In addition to the recent WebkitGTK discussion, perhaps work on a "Minibrowser" API that can live with published frozen Mozilla API only? Many apps may not need the full feature-richness of today's Browser.
 
** McQ unsure whether this is worthwile, since all industry trends go towards more web integration. '''AI Martin''' follow up with Grant
 
* Dani: '''Performance and Polish''' passes
 
** All teams need to fix the issues that Frederic finds. M7 is the performance and polish pass. Prioritize items.
 
* Dani: '''Freeze Plan'''
 
** Suggest a 2-day test pass (mon/tue) before the RC's, ie move 1 day from RC2 into M7
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''February 20, 2018''' - Lars, Dani, McQ, Tom
'''Mar 10, 2010:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, John
+
* John: '''Provisional API guidelines''' (removing the requirement to have "internal" in the package name) - important for e4 which will have a lot of provisional API.
+
** See also {{bug|261874}} and Wiki [[Provisional API Guidelines Update Proposal]]
+
** "Old School" wanted to make provisional API deliberately painful. Migrating "provisional" to real without renaming will make breakage more subtle
+
** The game has changed: Adding x-internal, friends and API Tooling works much better than before, making it clear where API is provisional
+
** Martin: Much in favor of this, do we have any markup beyond x-internal for (a) making provisional API more explicitly visible or (b) work on a smaller granularity such as just a class?
+
*** McQ: granularity smaller than package makes it too easy to pollute API
+
*** Jeff: would like x-api-status:=provisional markup instead of x-internal:=true ... better do it right than half-baken. Could probably come to a fairly fast consensus on MANIFEST markup
+
** Resolution Lets agree now that x-internal is sufficient for provisional API, and discuss further approvements in parallel. '''AI John''' to search existing bugs about provisional API markup and initiate a discussion on the eclipse-pmc mailing list.
+
* Jeff: '''Target Provisioning and PDE:''' Target components in Galileo (which cannot be installed into the host) - came up with sort of a hack which still confuses users
+
** Want just a little bit help in PDE to make target provisioning just a little bit better .. a number of PDE bugs related to this, many been deferred .. there will be new bugs coming to capture what can be done in the short term
+
** Resolution: will mark up those new bugs where they request PMC involvement
+
* McQ: '''Build Quality:''' There is traditionally a drop in quality around this time of year (API Freeze and Eclipsecon), plus infrastructure problems. It's not really bad but we need to be careful now.
+
** John: Resist the urge to put in extra fixes. We are past the test pass. Quality over function, especially now.
+
  
<hr/>
+
* Dani: Update on 4.7 RC3
'''Mar 3, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
+
* Lars: Can we drop Windows XP support?
* Martin: Remove org.eclipse.update.configurator and related bundles from SDK? As per {{bug|304505}} it makes Eclipse slow even when off.
+
** Lars: Big contribution comes in (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=531097), dropping XP support might be a good motiviation to contribute more also to other people. Removing lots of code including the version checks will also result in a cleaner code base for maintenance and might improve performance.
** Dani: Might be more than a packaging issue, somebody would have to invest
+
** Dani: IBM investigate if they officially drop XP
** McQ: Should fix the Performance issue at any rate, regardless of other issues.
+
** Tom: Do we need support XP with the latest Eclipse version?
* John sick, Dani vacation next week.
+
--> Pending on the answer of the IBM team, will be discussed in next weeks call
 +
* Tom: OSGI CQs updated and approved for OSGi Service Platform 7.0 version
  
<hr/>
 
'''Feb 24, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
 
* Dani: Remove Java 7 support as a plan item due to (a) legal reasons and (b) Java 7 not being finished when Eclipse 3.6 ships
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''February 6, 2018''' - Lars, Dani, McQ
'''Feb 17, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, John
+
* Lars: Can we mark MInput and MInputPart for deletion ({{bug|509868}})?
* Martin: {{bug|196337}} Pushing CDT Spawner into the Platform?
+
** Dani: Before approving to mark them for deletion, someone has to investigate how much work needs to be done to do it. Both have over 50 references.
** John, Dani: Platform could only accept it when there is use for it in the SDK. Otherwise it would just bloat the Platform
+
*** McQ agrees
** Recommended best practice: Keep Spawner living in CDT, but put it into a separate bundle such that it can be used by others out of Helios or other p2 Repos
+
* Dani: [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ui-best-practices-working-group/msg00743.html Topic on ui-best-practices-working-group list]: Replace "..." with an ellipses Unicode character
** The [[Nexus Project]], which was once meant to collect such micro functionality to be shared between projects was never successful. Similar requests (e.g. faceted projects) are consumed as individual bundles through p2 today, no matter in which project they have their home where they are developed.
+
** Looks good on Mac and is actually used by Mac OS, but less good on Windows. No info regarding Linux at this time
* Martin: {{bug|301563}} Fast project import from snapshot data - UI or not?
+
** McQ:
** John: Want some UI in the Platform in order to test it more easily, e.g. an export wizard
+
*** Mac OS UI guidelines specify to use the ellipses character
* John: Webkit
+
*** SWT could do the right thing depending on the platform
** Foundation is considering allowing LGPL for exempt prereqs, but not for works-with .. missing a policy for dealing with LGPL works-with
+
* Lars: view menu, minimize and maximize buttons look bad to him. Would like to replace the view menu with ellipses
** John: Our original reason for marking works-with is that the SWT browser can use either Mozilla or WebKit. However our long term direction is WebKit-only due to brittleness of the Mozilla API which keeps breaking us. There is an increasing number of distros bundling these WebKit libraries so there is a reasonable chance going forward that the library will already be present on the user's machine.
+
** Dani: Would have to change all three together. View menu is always there and not indicating an overflow
** Martin: Exempt works-with (optional) prereq is perfectly fine for Webkit, since there is a chance it's already there on a Platform (similar to Mozilla)
+
** McQ: Windows 10 also uses a triangle, but upwards. Current view menu is used and familiar to users for at least more than 10 years.
** Classifying it as such makes most sense for Product builders, who look at the prereqs to understand what they need to bundle with their Eclipse based product.
+
** Lars to file a bug report and send the bug number to the PMC
** PMC agreed to reclassify these libraries as exempt pre-req.
+
* McQ: Should discuss in one of the next meetings how JDT can handle the new release cadence for Java
 +
** Dani: We will see how it goes with Java 11 (18.3)
 +
* Dani: How will we name the milestones in our new new release scheme?
 +
** Consensus to start with M1 after each release.
 +
** Up to planning council to decide the release naming convention. Lars: Would prefer year/month
  
<hr/>
 
'''Feb 10, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ
 
* We agreed to list WebKitGTK and libsoup 2.4 as works-with prerequisites
 
* We need to find consensus on {{bug|243582}} (embedding source info in binaries)
 
* Discussed moving Ubuntu version on the plan from 9.04 to 10.04. It is too early to make this decision because release candidates of 10.04 are not yet available, but we will continue to monitor it and make the decision to move up (or not) later in the 3.6 cycle
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''January 30, 2018''' - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom
'''Feb 03, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin
+
* General Updates (Dani)
* Dani: {{Bug|301563}} -  Fast project import from snapshot data
+
** Shipped M5, still working some p2 issues
** Has the feature been verified to really return the expected performance gain? - Martin: Yes, Cisco reports 10 minute -> 5 seconds improvement by using the feature on project import on their view (65000 files)
+
** RC1 for Neon.3 next week, may need API changes after the freeze for junit 5 support updates
** Is the feature valuable without Index contributions from JDT / CDT? - Martin: Yes, even "plain" projects benefit when there are linked resources pointing to web folders through RSE/EFS since they can be browsed immediately and refresh can be reduced to what's really needed. But most benefit is gained when there is also a shared index to be imported for immediate use.
+
** Discussion about the incubation for Java.  Ongoing thread in jdt-dev list https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/jdt-dev/msg00964.html.  The incubation features will be part of the release specification which implies they need to be implemented to be compliant.  Spend time putting them into a release only to pull out later if they don’t finalize.  Not clear there are tests added to the TCK.  Alex asks if this effects us for Java 10, no not for Java 10.  Java 10 only has local type reference, not huge delta of function from Java 9.  No incubation in Java 10.  But incubation may affect us for Java 11.
** Dani proposed checkin into a branch for easier merge / review - Martin: Will start working with patches
+
* Info about infrastructure (Alex)
** AI Martin: Contact Sharon regarding IP review (reserve a slot)
+
** Foundation push to move to Jenkins.  Releng has moved, uncovered issues with rest API and token exchange … disabled for now for Jenkins.  Issue is being worked but only can be fixed once all is moved to Jenkins.
 +
** Platform HIPP moving to Jenkins tomorrow.  Will be some downtime, should be less than an hour or so.  May cause several issue.  Issues in non-standard jobs with multiple repos etc.  For Gerrit verifications should be fine.  Let Alex know if there are issues.  Alex to send a note when the migration occurs.
 +
** p2 issue is real.  Other issues are pressing (infrastucture/build).  Todor has a bug that he should be looking at.  Not something happening in the past, but now the capabilities are being resolved.  Issues happened with a hand crafted p2.inf file.  Hopefully will scope down the p2.inf files.  Alex to drive to determine if a respin is needed.
 +
** Need to monitor the p2 issue, determine how many are broken.  Cannot just break 100s of folks without serious consideration.  Why not revert?  Alex says it is not an option and we should do everything possible to fix.
 +
** Lars asks about nominating more committers, perhaps that were rejected in the past.  Now the Eclipse PMC can overlook the nomination process.  Work with existing contributors showing interest and look for opportunities to sponsor them for committership.
 +
* Tip of the day (Clippy)
 +
** See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-ui-dev/msg08006.html Tips Framework]
 +
** Tip of the Day or (Clippy) in coming contribution … looking for integration M6?
 +
** Lars thinks it is worth it.  Dani disables such things by default, and also Lars.  Alex find the function interesting.  Others are also reviewing the patch. 
 +
** Lars is moving forward with it.  If it is very easy to disable and is stable on all platforms then it should be good.
 +
** Is there a concern about a solution that requires network … it doesn’t appear to be a concern.
  
<hr/>
 
'''Jan 27, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
 
* Dani: Markus Keller taking over JDT UI
 
* John: M6 Splashscreen for Eclipsecon: {{bug|297355}}
 
* McQ: Removing Builds - SWT needs Linux-Motif, so only WPF about to be removed
 
** In discussions with Microsoft, it turned out that WPF is not required to get full Windows 7 experience under Win32
 
** XAML for styling was meant to be a cool idea but never got flying
 
** Socialize people with this -- find whether people are inerested in contributing on this, if yes then we should support them
 
* Still working the IBM approval process for travelling to Eclipsecon
 
* Avoid merging major feature work after a milestone's Tuesday test pass
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''January 16, 2018''' - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom
'''Jan 20, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
* Native builds at eclipse.org status (Lars):
* McQ: Contacted Steve N, still interested but unlikely to get more energy for investing into Eclipse
+
** Dani: swt is done for some time already
* John: 3.5.2 test pass tomorrow, but yesterday's I-build been a mess
+
** Dani: launchers after M5 is released to prevent breakage
* McQ: Message about supporting Open JDK in a blog ... status should be "nice that it works but it's not a reference platform"
+
* GTK launcher changes (Alex):
 +
** Changes to not rely on X11 atoms but on dbus ready for review
 +
** Linux only as no other GTK platforms are currently built
 +
* Equinox CQs (Tom):
 +
** P2 capabilities patch from Todor and felix.scr update
 +
** Slow process risking M5
 +
** Alex: Ping Sharon asking for speedup if possible
 +
* Updates from Dani:
 +
** Photon plan update - BREE to be part of the build info
 +
** End game - Oxygen.3 and M5 - send to the list
 +
** Running tests against Java 9
 +
* Java 10 eclipse release (Dani):
 +
** Oxygen.3a or marketplace feature only - Agreement for oxygen.3a
 +
** Dani: Local Variable type inference support in a branch
 +
** Future releases - to be aligned with JVM releases if they prove to release on time
 +
* BREE updates recomendations
 +
** Dani: There are reasons to stay on older BREE
 +
** Alex: ease of getting jvm is the main concern here - if a contributor can't get jvm at that version easily we can't call it supported
  
<hr/>
 
'''Jan 13, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
 
* McQ: U Manitoba students to help with technical communication (documentation, website, ...) for e4
 
* Dani: New way of contributing Capabilities for Helios... are we OK? - John: yes, Platform Capabilities are in the SDK feature
 
** FYI: Incubating projects are
 
* Martin: Documenting the Platforms we routinely test on
 
** Unittest / Perftest machines are know. When John updated the Reference Platform doc, he made sure that he knows at least one committer on each platform
 
** A poll to know what Platform(s) are actively used (by committers) on milestone granularity would be very helpful - John going to set that up
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''Januar 09, 2018''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
'''Jan 6, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Jeff
+
* Updates from Dani:
* Agreed on 3.5.2 [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/freeze_plan_3_5_2.php freeze plan]
+
** Ian Skerrett is leaving the Eclipse foundation
** Note RC2 is a week earlier to avoid colliding with Helios M5 week
+
** Dani got nominated as committer representive
* Discussed Helios plan updates 2 {{bug|298200}}
+
* Planning council update
** Update Java 7 plan item to indicate only working on publicly available bits. Some progress made on getting access to specs but going slowly.
+
** Dani: low participation in the last calls
** Update reference JRE's to latest version of each JRE
+
** Dani will talk with Melanie about it
* Jeff will be away for next six weeks (vacation)
+
** Input  required for the planning council for the API and feature freezes for the platform
* McQ to contact Steve to see if he still wishes to remain on PMC
+
* API and feature freeze policy in platform
 +
*** Alex: API and feature freeze in platform should be RC1, except breaking API which should be done in milestone build
 +
*** everyone agrees to Alex suggestion-> agreed
 +
* Alex: SWT linux currently uses X-Windows specific API, which does not work on Wayland. This will be moved to a DBUS API to open file and open URL
 +
* Dani: Plan update, biggest change is for the component plan
 +
** Equinox plan has been added
 +
** Manual generated BREE list has been dropped from the plan. This list is still automatically generated for every I-Build
 +
* Launcher and natives build move from IBM to the foundation still in progress
 +
** ({{bug|528230}}) Build FileSystem native component on Eclipse Foundation Infra
 +
** ({{bug|528230}}) Build launcher on Eclipse Foundation Infra
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2017 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2017]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Revision as of 11:15, 12 June 2018

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

June 12, 2018 - McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • RC4a looks good; hidpi fix is in place
    • no plans for further builds at this point

June 05, 2018 - McQ, Alex, Tom, Dani, Lars

  • Dani:
    • Image limit for help should be increased? -> Not covered in the call
    • Will most likely not be able to join the next call
  • Alex:
    • Support only last LTS version of Linux?
      • Agreement to drop old LTS versions for 4.9 but not to change the target environment for 4.8
    • Dropping big Endian -> we all agreed to drop it, MQ found the email to cross, so we can remove it
  • Lars:
    • Update to EPL 2.0?
      • change of about.html is trivial
      • requires version updates of MANIFEST.MF and pom.xml
      • Script for source update look good, Lars checked manually lots of files
      • Coordindate with Jay or Noopur for the JDT UI update
      • Dani suggested to announce such work via the mailing list so that everyone is aware of the work
    • Only one N&N per release? -> Agreed to have one document per release
    • Do we get a name for Photon+1 -> Dani: Our SDK is called 4.9, splash screen will only be month year, planning counsil still discussing
    • Include Tips and Tricks in the SDK -> Not covered in the call


May 29, 2018 - Alex, Tom, Dani

  • Dani:
    • Uploaded IP log
    • Working on issue with IP log: looks like a CQ is missing for com.google.code.atinject.tck
    • Finalized Photon plan
    • Sent Release Review material for approval to PMC mailing list
    • RC3 looks good so far


May 22, 2018 - Alex, Tom, McQ, Dani

  • EPL 2.0
    • Still working with foundation on whether we can gradually move to 2.0
  • Will we be supporting updates from release to release in the new 3 month release cycle?
    • Yes, unless we explicitly indicate otherwise.
    • To simplify this, we should have a "latest" update site
    • We need to make this simpler for users, but not get in the way of the EPP, OOMF, etc.
    • Alex to write this up in more detail
    • Dani reminded us that there had been a previous discussion in the planning council
  • Project leads have updated Photon plans
    • Dani will be updating the overall plan; PMC to comment on bug 529640
  • Dani also working on release review and IP log
    • PMC members to approve once it's ready
  • As previously discussed our first milestone will be called "M2"


May 15, 2018 - Alex, Tom, McQ, Lars, Dani

  • GDPR
    • audit did not report any issues on our project pages
  • Opening development for 4.9
    • Will branch RC2 and update master with required Releng work
    • master will be open after RC3
  • EPL 2.0
    • No plans to do anything for 4.8
    • Lars will look into it
    • Ideally we gradually move to 2.0


May 8, 2018 - Dani, Alex, Tom, McQ

  • GDPR
    • Eclipse Project collects no information from the users on the project websites
    • The Error Reporting tool, might be impacted
    • Also possibly bugzilla <-- Do we need to delete bugs older than some retention period?
    • Impossible to remove emails from all git repos (because of cloning)
    • We need to be sure to respond to requests from the foundation
  • Jetty
    • 9.4.10 is in latest build, and help system is working
    • they made the dependencies that were problematic optional


May 1, 2018 - cancelled due to public holiday in most Europe


April 24, 2018 - Dani, Lars, Alex, Tom

  • Target environments
    • We will keep Java 8 and 10 and remove java 9 from the list
    • remove JVMs as soon as they run out of support from target environments - AGREED
  • javax.annotation
    • Version shipped is quite old, should we update it to newer version
    • Update to latest standalone release to be tried
    • Alex to try to drive this through
  • Notify cross project about removal of ee modules from the JVM
    • People don't follow Java 11 work so will probably be surprised when things start to fail so we better try to spread the information
    • Dani will send a link to the JEP containing detailed information
  • Contribution guidelines
    • Do not open bugs for simple changes and cleanups
    • Actual bug fixes to be split from cleanups in separate patches so the bug commit is straight on the topic
    • Dani will update the wiki
  • Cancel May 1st call - public holiday in Europe


April 17, 2018 - Dani, Alex, McQ

  • On Java 11...
    • We are actually shipping the javax annotation support
    • Java 11 is working in 4.8, but isn't in 4.7.x
      • Tom Watson is investigating why it is not working 4.7.x


April 10, 2018 - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Discussed bug 533390: Eclipse does not launch with Java 11


April 3, 2018 - Tom, Dani, Mcq, Lars

  • 4.7.3a update
    • Delivered RC2 on Saturday, so we could fix some badness in handling Java 10 "var" support (tl;dr: rename appeared to allow you to affect "var" as if it were a type (but would not have modified the code))
    • Currently think we're done
  • Naming milestones
    • As previously discussed, we will contribute the most recent I-build to the release train for the 3-week "M1".
    • We will call our first milestone (at the 6-week point) M2 so that it aligns with the release train naming.


March 27, 2018 - Tom, Dani, Mcq, Lars, Alex

  • Java packages for configured Java in workspace
    • Equinox no longer provides hard-coded information about execution environments. In the past this information was used at runtime for describing the running execution environment within the OSGi Framework. Other usecases outside the Framework started uses the Java profile data from Equinox. Equinox no longer has any need for the hard-coded information so no longer provides it.
    • JDT and PDE have come to depend on the internal resources of the framework to get hard-coded information about execution environments
    • JDT and PDE need to have a common way to figure out the available packages for Java versions >= Java 9
    • See 531642 532773
  • SWT clean-up
    • Lars reviewed the removal of Windows XP. Built binaries locally on Windows.
    • Found a form data issue deleted some code that was still used
    • Tom - Unit tests didn’t catch the issue. Concerning?

--> Update from Lars after the call: Later testing did show that this is a bug already existing in Eclipse. 4.7 and master and not related to the patch

    • Lars did review and test
    • Dani - put all the code in the branch and produce a build and ask windows community to test it
    • Mcq - thinks it is a good idea
    • Dani - create an official build for testing, not out of master with normal builds
    • Lars - what is the risk of putting in master
    • Dani - can do the build right away pre-CQ review approval. Allows for more quick testing.
    • Alex, no need for a branch, can be a developer build we publish. Alex will ask Leo to do this.
  • Jetty version
    • Jetty added non-optional dependencies on service-loader
    • Dani - got reverted, but old versions still caused Gerrit build issue
    • We don’t need the service-loader for our usage of jetty
    • jetty may be making a hard requirement on an implementation of server-loader (Aries spi-fly)
    • Can we move help off jetty? Will be a major undertaking. Should figure out what it would me to do so. Currently no interested contributer has stepped up to do the work to figure out what this would mean.
    • Equinox will still need jetty for the http service implementation. Perhaps things are more simple if this is an Equinox only dependency. Only pull in jetty if the http service implementation is needed and then pull in all of jetty and its dependencies.
    • No current plans or interested contributors for providing our own service-loader implementation.
    • Our build should start resolving the capabilities are requirements which would catch issues like this early in the build.
    • Alex - can we move latest tycho to get the capability/requirements meta-data. No objections? Alex will move forward.


March 20, 2018 - Dani, McQ, Tom, Lars, Alex

  • Dani: The IBM SWT team considers the Windows XP removal too risky and in addition has no capacity to look at that big change. Fine if someone else looks at the removal. The type changes will have to wait after Photon (too risky). Lars will ask Conrad and Alex will also look at the patches.
  • Databinding generification should be done early 4.9, too late for Photon.
  • Dani: Eclipse support for Java 10 will be merged to the official branches starting Wednesday. A Marketplace entry for 4.7.3 will be made available once 4.7.3 is released. The first official release with Java 10 support is 4.7.3a scheduled for April 11.


March 13, 2018 - Dani, McQ, Tom

  • Alex had troubles to join; Lars still in vacation
  • Dani: in the new release process we need to downgrade some milestones to "checkpoints" where we only deliver the bits
    • ACTION ITEM: Dani to start the discussion with the PMC via e-mail and then inform cross-project


March 6, 2018 - McQ, Tom, Alex

  • Short call without any interesting topics


February 27, 2018 - Lars, Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex

  • JDT support for new Java releases
    • McQ: With current change rate and OpenJDK process we can not promise Zero day compatibility but rather release as soon as possible
    • Dani: effort to try convincing Oracle to tell the features a release earlier and get easier access to OpenJDK community
  • Dropping XP support
    • Dani: no objection to drop it, the question is whether to do it for Photon or delay it for next release
    • Mail to be posted to cross project by Dani to gather feedback
    • Alex: 1 week for gathering input on cross-project - AGREED
    • If noone speaks up with reasonable reason to keep support - preapproved by Dani, Lars and Alex
    • To be formally voted after the mail to cross-project
  • Release names
    • Version only, release names are irrelevant from Eclipse TLP side - AGREED
  • Inactive committers pruning
    • Lars: no access to committer emails so sending just to the mailing list
    • Wait 2 months for reply before action
    • McQ: ask foundation to send direct mails on behalf of the project, if foundation is not fine - remove committers directly
    • Alex: only public replies to the mailing list are accepted so people wanting to remain committers at least follow the mailing list
  • Tip of the day -
    • Lars: CQ approved, to be merged today/tomorrow
    • Alex: we should have it part of the build and part of the p2 repo for easy testing
    • Dani: unclear APIs to be removed and to be simplified so we don't end up maintaining useless parts
  • GTK 2 vs. 4
    • Alex: Gtk 4 release aiming at late 2018, it's big change in drawing so conflicts with Gtk 2 badly
    • Alex: Gtk 2 support to be removed in future one of the next 2 releases, whether Sep or Dec to be discussed later in the Photon release train
    • Alex: mail to cross project list around Photon M7 or RC when more information on both Gtk 4 release plans and SWT bugs will be known
    • McQ: what is our statement on supported Gtk version?
    • Alex: Statement should be: Once SWT switches to latest Gtk version as default, support for previous versions goes into deep maintenance mode but will kept until it starts hurting new development and support for the default version at which point to be removed.
    • To be discussed further.


February 20, 2018 - Lars, Dani, McQ, Tom

  • Dani: Update on 4.7 RC3
  • Lars: Can we drop Windows XP support?
    • Lars: Big contribution comes in (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=531097), dropping XP support might be a good motiviation to contribute more also to other people. Removing lots of code including the version checks will also result in a cleaner code base for maintenance and might improve performance.
    • Dani: IBM investigate if they officially drop XP
    • Tom: Do we need support XP with the latest Eclipse version?

--> Pending on the answer of the IBM team, will be discussed in next weeks call

  • Tom: OSGI CQs updated and approved for OSGi Service Platform 7.0 version


February 6, 2018 - Lars, Dani, McQ

  • Lars: Can we mark MInput and MInputPart for deletion (bug 509868)?
    • Dani: Before approving to mark them for deletion, someone has to investigate how much work needs to be done to do it. Both have over 50 references.
      • McQ agrees
  • Dani: Topic on ui-best-practices-working-group list: Replace "..." with an ellipses Unicode character
    • Looks good on Mac and is actually used by Mac OS, but less good on Windows. No info regarding Linux at this time
    • McQ:
      • Mac OS UI guidelines specify to use the ellipses character
      • SWT could do the right thing depending on the platform
  • Lars: view menu, minimize and maximize buttons look bad to him. Would like to replace the view menu with ellipses
    • Dani: Would have to change all three together. View menu is always there and not indicating an overflow
    • McQ: Windows 10 also uses a triangle, but upwards. Current view menu is used and familiar to users for at least more than 10 years.
    • Lars to file a bug report and send the bug number to the PMC
  • McQ: Should discuss in one of the next meetings how JDT can handle the new release cadence for Java
    • Dani: We will see how it goes with Java 11 (18.3)
  • Dani: How will we name the milestones in our new new release scheme?
    • Consensus to start with M1 after each release.
    • Up to planning council to decide the release naming convention. Lars: Would prefer year/month


January 30, 2018 - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • General Updates (Dani)
    • Shipped M5, still working some p2 issues
    • RC1 for Neon.3 next week, may need API changes after the freeze for junit 5 support updates
    • Discussion about the incubation for Java. Ongoing thread in jdt-dev list https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/jdt-dev/msg00964.html. The incubation features will be part of the release specification which implies they need to be implemented to be compliant. Spend time putting them into a release only to pull out later if they don’t finalize. Not clear there are tests added to the TCK. Alex asks if this effects us for Java 10, no not for Java 10. Java 10 only has local type reference, not huge delta of function from Java 9. No incubation in Java 10. But incubation may affect us for Java 11.
  • Info about infrastructure (Alex)
    • Foundation push to move to Jenkins. Releng has moved, uncovered issues with rest API and token exchange … disabled for now for Jenkins. Issue is being worked but only can be fixed once all is moved to Jenkins.
    • Platform HIPP moving to Jenkins tomorrow. Will be some downtime, should be less than an hour or so. May cause several issue. Issues in non-standard jobs with multiple repos etc. For Gerrit verifications should be fine. Let Alex know if there are issues. Alex to send a note when the migration occurs.
    • p2 issue is real. Other issues are pressing (infrastucture/build). Todor has a bug that he should be looking at. Not something happening in the past, but now the capabilities are being resolved. Issues happened with a hand crafted p2.inf file. Hopefully will scope down the p2.inf files. Alex to drive to determine if a respin is needed.
    • Need to monitor the p2 issue, determine how many are broken. Cannot just break 100s of folks without serious consideration. Why not revert? Alex says it is not an option and we should do everything possible to fix.
    • Lars asks about nominating more committers, perhaps that were rejected in the past. Now the Eclipse PMC can overlook the nomination process. Work with existing contributors showing interest and look for opportunities to sponsor them for committership.
  • Tip of the day (Clippy)
    • See Tips Framework
    • Tip of the Day or (Clippy) in coming contribution … looking for integration M6?
    • Lars thinks it is worth it. Dani disables such things by default, and also Lars. Alex find the function interesting. Others are also reviewing the patch.
    • Lars is moving forward with it. If it is very easy to disable and is stable on all platforms then it should be good.
    • Is there a concern about a solution that requires network … it doesn’t appear to be a concern.


January 16, 2018 - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • Native builds at eclipse.org status (Lars):
    • Dani: swt is done for some time already
    • Dani: launchers after M5 is released to prevent breakage
  • GTK launcher changes (Alex):
    • Changes to not rely on X11 atoms but on dbus ready for review
    • Linux only as no other GTK platforms are currently built
  • Equinox CQs (Tom):
    • P2 capabilities patch from Todor and felix.scr update
    • Slow process risking M5
    • Alex: Ping Sharon asking for speedup if possible
  • Updates from Dani:
    • Photon plan update - BREE to be part of the build info
    • End game - Oxygen.3 and M5 - send to the list
    • Running tests against Java 9
  • Java 10 eclipse release (Dani):
    • Oxygen.3a or marketplace feature only - Agreement for oxygen.3a
    • Dani: Local Variable type inference support in a branch
    • Future releases - to be aligned with JVM releases if they prove to release on time
  • BREE updates recomendations
    • Dani: There are reasons to stay on older BREE
    • Alex: ease of getting jvm is the main concern here - if a contributor can't get jvm at that version easily we can't call it supported


Januar 09, 2018 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Updates from Dani:
    • Ian Skerrett is leaving the Eclipse foundation
    • Dani got nominated as committer representive
  • Planning council update
    • Dani: low participation in the last calls
    • Dani will talk with Melanie about it
    • Input required for the planning council for the API and feature freezes for the platform
  • API and feature freeze policy in platform
      • Alex: API and feature freeze in platform should be RC1, except breaking API which should be done in milestone build
      • everyone agrees to Alex suggestion-> agreed
  • Alex: SWT linux currently uses X-Windows specific API, which does not work on Wayland. This will be moved to a DBUS API to open file and open URL
  • Dani: Plan update, biggest change is for the component plan
    • Equinox plan has been added
    • Manual generated BREE list has been dropped from the plan. This list is still automatically generated for every I-Build
  • Launcher and natives build move from IBM to the foundation still in progress
    • (bug 528230) Build FileSystem native component on Eclipse Foundation Infra
    • (bug 528230) Build launcher on Eclipse Foundation Infra

Archive

Back to the top