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= Documents =
 
= Documents =
−
 
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
  
Line 11: Line 10:
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 +
'''April 17, 2018''' - Dani, Alex, McQ
 +
* On Java 11...
 +
** We are actually shipping the javax annotation support
 +
** Java 11 is working in 4.8, but isn't in 4.7.x
 +
*** Tom Watson is investigating why it is not working 4.7.x
  
−
'''July 5, 2016''' - Lars, McQ, Alex, Dani, Martin
+
'''April 10, 2018''' - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex
−
* Lars: SWT move to Java 8
+
* Discussed {{bug|533390}}: Eclipse does not launch with Java 11
−
* Alex: Initial builds of GTK 2.24 for AIX - planning to bump minimum GTK version to 2.24
+
−
** Will remove non-cairo drawing, this is where most of the breakage happens
+
−
** Ubuntu 12.04: 2.24.10 / 3.4.5
+
−
** RHEL 6: 2.24.23-6
+
−
** AIX, HP-UX, Solaris ? -- Oxygen will only focus on Linux, Windows, Mac
+
−
** Secondary Platforms: Not built on EF Hardware, but interested parties can contribute binaries
+
−
** Trying to support Platforms which can't move up to modern GTK at a similar pace as Linux is hard
+
−
** '''AI Alex''' write up a message to the Community
+
−
* Lars: {{bug|486961}} extending the Eclipse Text Editor
+
−
** Dani: Text Editor must remain unchanged, but feel free to provide a new different code editor
+
−
** https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=496114#c7
+
−
** Not against adding extension points ... but having the standard text editor adopt those is a no-go
+
−
* Dani: Build, and Hackathon
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''April 3, 2018''' - Tom, Dani, Mcq, Lars
−
'''June 28, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Alex
+
* 4.7.3a update
−
* Discussion about Language Server Protocol
+
** Delivered RC2 on Saturday, so we could fix some badness in handling Java 10 "var" support (tl;dr: rename appeared to allow you to affect "var" as if it were a type (but would not have modified the code))
−
** MS sponsoring hackathon in Zurich, Dani expected to go there
+
** Currently think we're done
−
** The protocol has an Open Source license, but there is no Open Source Governance ... who owns the specification?
+
* Naming milestones
 +
** As previously discussed, we will contribute the most recent I-build to the release train for the 3-week "M1".
 +
** We will call our first milestone (at the 6-week point) M2 so that it aligns with the release train naming.
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''March 27, 2018''' - Tom, Dani, Mcq, Lars, Alex
−
'''June 21, 2016''' -  
+
* Java packages for configured Java in workspace
−
*  
+
** Equinox no longer provides hard-coded information about execution environments.  In the past this information was used at runtime for describing the running execution environment within the OSGi Framework.  Other usecases outside the Framework started uses the Java profile data from Equinox.  Equinox no longer has any need for the hard-coded information so no longer provides it.
 +
** JDT and PDE have come to depend on the internal resources of the framework to get hard-coded information about execution environments
 +
** JDT and PDE need to have a common way to figure out the available packages for Java versions >= Java 9
 +
** See [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=531642 531642] [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=532773 532773]
 +
* SWT clean-up
 +
** Lars reviewed the removal of Windows XP.  Built binaries locally on Windows.
 +
** Found a form data issue deleted some code that was still used
 +
** Tom - Unit tests didn’t catch the issue.  Concerning?
  
−
<hr/>
+
--> Update from Lars after the call: Later testing did show that this is a bug already existing in Eclipse. 4.7 and master and not related to the patch
−
'''June 14, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars
+
−
* McQ: '''Mattermost / Slack''' for communication
+
−
** not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
+
−
* Lars: '''Master is Open'''
+
−
** Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
+
−
** Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
+
−
** Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes ({{bug|360703}}) is open to improve that)
+
−
** We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
+
−
* Lars: '''Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ?''' - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
+
−
* McQ: '''Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che''' (from [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ide-dev/ ide-dev] mailing list and {{bug|496114}})
+
−
** The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
+
−
** The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
+
−
*** People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
+
−
** The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
+
−
** How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
+
−
*** At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
+
−
*** But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
+
−
* Dani: '''What goes into the Neon Update Releases'''
+
−
** as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
+
−
** '''AI: Dani''' will prepare a note
+
−
* Dani: '''Using Sound in Eclipse'''
+
−
** Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see {{bug|496003}})
+
−
** Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
+
−
** Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
+
−
** McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so '''that''' should really be leveraged
+
−
** Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
+
−
** Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
+
−
** Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.
+
  
−
'''June 7, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex
+
** Lars did review and test
−
* no topics
+
** Dani - put all the code in the branch and produce a build and ask windows community to test it
 +
** Mcq - thinks it is a good idea
 +
** Dani - create an official build for testing, not out of master with normal builds
 +
** Lars - what is the risk of putting in master
 +
** Dani - can do the build right away pre-CQ review approval.  Allows for more quick testing.
 +
** Alex, no need for a branch, can be a developer build we publish.  Alex will ask Leo to do this.
 +
* Jetty version
 +
** Jetty added non-optional dependencies on service-loader
 +
** Dani - got reverted, but old versions still caused Gerrit build issue
 +
** We don’t need the service-loader for our usage of jetty
 +
** jetty may be making a hard requirement on an implementation of server-loader (Aries spi-fly)
 +
** Can we move help off jetty? Will be a major undertaking.  Should figure out what it would me to do so.  Currently no interested contributer has stepped up to do the work to figure out what this would mean.
 +
** Equinox will still need jetty for the http service implementation.  Perhaps things are more simple if this is an Equinox only dependency.  Only pull in jetty if the http service implementation is needed and then pull in all of jetty and its dependencies.
 +
** No current plans or interested contributors for providing our own service-loader implementation.
 +
** Our build should start resolving the capabilities are requirements which would catch issues like this early in the build.
 +
** Alex - can we move latest tycho to get the capability/requirements meta-data.  No objections?  Alex will move forward.
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''March 20, 2018''' - Dani, McQ, Tom, Lars, Alex
−
'''May 31, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex
+
* Dani: The IBM SWT team considers the Windows XP removal too risky and in addition has no capacity to look at that big change. Fine if someone else looks at the removal. The type changes will have to wait after Photon (too risky). Lars will ask Conrad and Alex will also look at the patches.
−
* Dani: '''IP Log'''
+
* Databinding generification should be done early 4.9, too late for Photon.
−
** The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
+
* Dani: Eclipse support for Java 10 will be merged to the official branches starting Wednesday. A Marketplace entry for 4.7.3 will be made available once 4.7.3 is released. The first official release with Java 10 support is 4.7.3a scheduled for April 11.
−
** In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
+
−
* Dani: '''Release Review'''
+
−
** Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
+
−
* Dani: '''Update Jetty to 3.9.3'''
+
−
** Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
+
−
* Dani: '''RC4 Status Update'''
+
−
** Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''March 13, 2018''' - Dani, McQ, Tom
−
'''May 24, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin
+
* Alex had troubles to join; Lars still in vacation
−
* Dani: '''IP Log Generator''' - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
+
* Dani: in the new release process we need to downgrade some milestones to "checkpoints" where we only deliver the bits
−
* Dani: '''Release Review''' - Deadline next week (June 2)
+
** ACTION ITEM: Dani to start the discussion with the PMC via e-mail and then inform cross-project
−
* Dani: '''Deprecation Request from Brian'''
+
−
** Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
+
−
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date'''
+
−
** '''AGREEMENT''' to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
+
−
** Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
+
−
** Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
+
−
** This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
+
−
* Dani: '''Neon Status'''
+
−
** Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''March 6, 2018''' - McQ, Tom, Alex
−
'''May 17, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
+
* Short call without any interesting topics
−
* Dani: '''{{Bug|475184}} Neon Plan Update 2'''
+
−
** Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
+
−
** SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
+
−
*** Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
+
−
**** Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
+
−
*** Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
+
−
** Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
+
−
** '''AI Dani''' to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
+
−
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date''' - EMO: To be decided per project
+
−
** IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
+
−
** Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
+
−
*** gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
+
−
** Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
+
−
* Dani: '''Policy for Neon.Update Releases''' - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
+
−
** Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
+
−
** Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
+
−
** Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - '''decision''': discuss feature by feature at PMC
+
−
** Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
+
−
** In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
+
−
* Dani: '''Neon RC2 Builds Update'''
+
−
** Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
+
−
** Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
+
−
** GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
+
−
** Lars: {{bug|493477}} detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''February 27, 2018''' - Lars, Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex
−
'''May 10, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
+
* JDT support for new Java releases
−
* Dani: '''Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases'''
+
** McQ: With current change rate and OpenJDK process we can not promise Zero day compatibility but rather release as soon as possible
−
** Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
+
** Dani: effort to try convincing Oracle to tell the features a release earlier and get easier access to OpenJDK community
−
* Martin: '''RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2'''
+
* Dropping XP support
−
** GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
+
** Dani: no objection to drop it, the question is whether to do it for Photon or delay it for next release
−
*** Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
+
** Mail to be posted to cross project by Dani to gather feedback
−
** Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
+
** Alex: 1 week for gathering input on cross-project - '''AGREED'''
−
*** Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
+
** If noone speaks up with reasonable reason to keep support - preapproved by Dani, Lars and Alex
−
*** There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
+
** To be formally voted after the mail to cross-project
−
*** Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
+
* Release names
−
** Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
+
** Version only, release names are irrelevant from Eclipse TLP side - '''AGREED'''
−
*** Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
+
* Inactive committers pruning
−
*** Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)
+
** Lars: no access to committer emails so sending just to the mailing list
 +
** Wait 2 months for reply before action
 +
** McQ: ask foundation to send direct mails on behalf of the project, if foundation is not fine - remove committers directly
 +
** Alex: only public replies to the mailing list are accepted so people wanting to remain committers at least follow the mailing list
 +
* Tip of the day -
 +
** Lars: CQ approved, to be merged today/tomorrow
 +
** Alex: we should have it part of the build and part of the p2 repo for easy testing
 +
** Dani: unclear APIs to be removed and to be simplified so we don't end up maintaining useless parts
 +
* GTK 2 vs. 4
 +
** Alex: Gtk 4 release aiming at late 2018, it's big change in drawing so conflicts with Gtk 2 badly
 +
** Alex: Gtk 2 support to be removed in future one of the next 2 releases, whether Sep or Dec to be discussed later in the Photon release train
 +
** Alex: mail to cross project list around Photon M7 or RC when more information on both Gtk 4 release plans and SWT bugs will be known
 +
** McQ: what is our statement on supported Gtk version?
 +
** Alex: Statement should be: Once SWT switches to latest Gtk version as default, support for previous versions goes into deep maintenance mode but will kept until it starts hurting new development and support for the default version at which point to be removed.
 +
** To be discussed further.
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''May 3, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
 
−
* [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02598.html Brian's request on the PMC list]
 
−
** McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
 
−
** Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
 
−
** Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...
 
−
** McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
 
−
** Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
 
−
** '''ACTION''' McQ to -1 and argue why.
 
  
−
* Alex: '''Update on Accessibility'''
+
'''February 20, 2018''' - Lars, Dani, McQ, Tom
−
** broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
+
−
** due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
+
−
** Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
+
−
*** and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
+
−
** Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
* Dani: Update on 4.7 RC3
−
'''April 26, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
* Lars: Can we drop Windows XP support?
−
* Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
+
** Lars: Big contribution comes in (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=531097), dropping XP support might be a good motiviation to contribute more also to other people. Removing lots of code including the version checks will also result in a cleaner code base for maintenance and might improve performance.
−
* Alex: '''Accessibility''' - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
+
** Dani: IBM investigate if they officially drop XP
−
** Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
+
** Tom: Do we need support XP with the latest Eclipse version?
−
** McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
+
--> Pending on the answer of the IBM team, will be discussed in next weeks call
−
* Alex: '''Platform.ui generification of project'''
+
* Tom: OSGI CQs updated and approved for OSGi Service Platform 7.0 version
−
** Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
+
−
** McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
+
−
** Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
+
−
** Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
+
−
** '''ACTION Alex''' to prepare a message for review and then send that.
+
−
* Lars: '''Copyright discussion'''
+
−
** Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
+
−
** The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
+
−
* Dani: '''Update on FEEP'''
+
−
** Paul not reached out yet
+
−
** A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
+
−
* Dani: '''Update on M7'''
+
−
** Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
+
−
** Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full
+
  
−
<br/>
 
−
'''April 19, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)
 
−
* Dani: '''IP Stuff''' on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
 
−
* Dani: '''FEEP''' discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
 
−
** General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
 
−
** Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
 
−
** Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
 
−
* Dani: '''All PMC please review and +1 API requests''' when you find time
 
−
** McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
 
−
** '''AGREEMENT''' on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
 
−
* '''Reviews vs. Features'''
 
−
** Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora
 
  
−
<br/>
+
'''February 6, 2018''' - Lars, Dani, McQ
−
'''April 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex
+
* Lars: Can we mark MInput and MInputPart for deletion ({{bug|509868}})?
−
* Lars: '''Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement'''
+
** Dani: Before approving to mark them for deletion, someone has to investigate how much work needs to be done to do it. Both have over 50 references.
−
** [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=485257#c13 bug 485257_c13] EMO: All information is in the git repos
+
*** McQ agrees
−
** McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
+
* Dani: [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ui-best-practices-working-group/msg00743.html Topic on ui-best-practices-working-group list]: Replace "..." with an ellipses Unicode character
−
** Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
+
** Looks good on Mac and is actually used by Mac OS, but less good on Windows. No info regarding Linux at this time
−
** '''ACTION''' McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
+
** McQ:
 +
*** Mac OS UI guidelines specify to use the ellipses character
 +
*** SWT could do the right thing depending on the platform
 +
* Lars: view menu, minimize and maximize buttons look bad to him. Would like to replace the view menu with ellipses
 +
** Dani: Would have to change all three together. View menu is always there and not indicating an overflow
 +
** McQ: Windows 10 also uses a triangle, but upwards. Current view menu is used and familiar to users for at least more than 10 years.
 +
** Lars to file a bug report and send the bug number to the PMC
 +
* McQ: Should discuss in one of the next meetings how JDT can handle the new release cadence for Java
 +
** Dani: We will see how it goes with Java 11 (18.3)
 +
* Dani: How will we name the milestones in our new new release scheme?
 +
** Consensus to start with M1 after each release.
 +
** Up to planning council to decide the release naming convention. Lars: Would prefer year/month
  
−
* Lars: '''{{bug|490012}} Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE'''
 
−
** Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
 
−
** Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
 
−
** Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
 
−
** '''DECISION''' to get rid of the strict error per project.
 
  
−
* Dani: '''{{bug|475934}} API Change on model processing order'''
+
'''January 30, 2018''' - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom
−
** Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
+
* General Updates (Dani)
−
** McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
+
** Shipped M5, still working some p2 issues
−
** McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
+
** RC1 for Neon.3 next week, may need API changes after the freeze for junit 5 support updates
−
*** Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
+
** Discussion about the incubation for Java.  Ongoing thread in jdt-dev list https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/jdt-dev/msg00964.html.  The incubation features will be part of the release specification which implies they need to be implemented to be compliant.  Spend time putting them into a release only to pull out later if they don’t finalize.  Not clear there are tests added to the TCK.  Alex asks if this effects us for Java 10, no not for Java 10.  Java 10 only has local type reference, not huge delta of function from Java 9.  No incubation in Java 10.  But incubation may affect us for Java 11.
−
*** Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
+
* Info about infrastructure (Alex)
−
*** Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
+
** Foundation push to move to Jenkins.  Releng has moved, uncovered issues with rest API and token exchange … disabled for now for Jenkins.  Issue is being worked but only can be fixed once all is moved to Jenkins.
−
** Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
+
** Platform HIPP moving to Jenkins tomorrow.  Will be some downtime, should be less than an hour or so.  May cause several issue.  Issues in non-standard jobs with multiple repos etc.  For Gerrit verifications should be fine.  Let Alex know if there are issues.  Alex to send a note when the migration occurs.
−
** '''DECISION''' to allow making the change and announce widely.
+
** p2 issue is real.  Other issues are pressing (infrastucture/build).  Todor has a bug that he should be looking at.  Not something happening in the past, but now the capabilities are being resolved.  Issues happened with a hand crafted p2.inf file.  Hopefully will scope down the p2.inf files.  Alex to drive to determine if a respin is needed.
 +
** Need to monitor the p2 issue, determine how many are broken.  Cannot just break 100s of folks without serious consideration.  Why not revert?  Alex says it is not an option and we should do everything possible to fix.
 +
** Lars asks about nominating more committers, perhaps that were rejected in the past.  Now the Eclipse PMC can overlook the nomination process.  Work with existing contributors showing interest and look for opportunities to sponsor them for committership.
 +
* Tip of the day (Clippy)
 +
** See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-ui-dev/msg08006.html Tips Framework]
 +
** Tip of the Day or (Clippy) in coming contribution … looking for integration M6?
 +
** Lars thinks it is worth it.  Dani disables such things by default, and also Lars.  Alex find the function interesting.  Others are also reviewing the patch. 
 +
** Lars is moving forward with it.  If it is very easy to disable and is stable on all platforms then it should be good.
 +
** Is there a concern about a solution that requires network … it doesn’t appear to be a concern.
  
−
* Dani: '''FEEP and EMO Hiring Update'''
+
'''January 16, 2018''' - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom
−
** EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
+
* Native builds at eclipse.org status (Lars):
−
** Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
+
** Dani: swt is done for some time already
−
** Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
+
** Dani: launchers after M5 is released to prevent breakage
 +
* GTK launcher changes (Alex):
 +
** Changes to not rely on X11 atoms but on dbus ready for review
 +
** Linux only as no other GTK platforms are currently built
 +
* Equinox CQs (Tom):
 +
** P2 capabilities patch from Todor and felix.scr update
 +
** Slow process risking M5
 +
** Alex: Ping Sharon asking for speedup if possible
 +
* Updates from Dani:
 +
** Photon plan update - BREE to be part of the build info
 +
** End game - Oxygen.3 and M5 - send to the list
 +
** Running tests against Java 9
 +
* Java 10 eclipse release (Dani):
 +
** Oxygen.3a or marketplace feature only - Agreement for oxygen.3a
 +
** Dani: Local Variable type inference support in a branch
 +
** Future releases - to be aligned with JVM releases if they prove to release on time
 +
* BREE updates recomendations
 +
** Dani: There are reasons to stay on older BREE
 +
** Alex: ease of getting jvm is the main concern here - if a contributor can't get jvm at that version easily we can't call it supported
  
−
* Dani: '''IDE-dev proposal'''
 
−
** People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
 
−
** Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
 
−
*** McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
 
−
*** OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''Januar 09, 2018''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
−
'''April 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
+
* Updates from Dani:
−
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
+
** Ian Skerrett is leaving the Eclipse foundation
−
** Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
+
** Dani got nominated as committer representive
−
** Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
+
* Planning council update
−
** Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
+
** Dani: low participation in the last calls
−
* Dani: '''Solaris 32-bit'''
+
** Dani will talk with Melanie about it
−
** Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
+
** Input  required for the planning council for the API and feature freezes for the platform
−
** Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
+
* API and feature freeze policy in platform
−
*** Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
+
*** Alex: API and feature freeze in platform should be RC1, except breaking API which should be done in milestone build
−
** McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
+
*** everyone agrees to Alex suggestion-> agreed
−
* Dani: '''New Solstice Welcome'''
+
* Alex: SWT linux currently uses X-Windows specific API, which does not work on Wayland. This will be moved to a DBUS API to open file and open URL
−
** Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
+
* Dani: Plan update, biggest change is for the component plan
−
** Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
+
** Equinox plan has been added
−
** McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
+
** Manual generated BREE list has been dropped from the plan. This list is still automatically generated for every I-Build
−
* Alex: '''FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)'''
+
* Launcher and natives build move from IBM to the foundation still in progress
−
** "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
+
** ({{bug|528230}}) Build FileSystem native component on Eclipse Foundation Infra
−
*** Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
+
** ({{bug|528230}}) Build launcher on Eclipse Foundation Infra
−
*** It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
+
−
*** McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
+
−
** Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
+
−
*** '''AI Dani''' send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
+
−
*** '''AI Martin''' compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
+
−
** Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
+
−
** Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
+
−
*** McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
+
−
*** Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
+
−
*** McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal '''Transparency''' on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
+
−
*** McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
+
−
**** Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: '''THIS''' is what the FEEP should have adressed !
+
−
** Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
+
−
** Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
+
−
*** McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
+
−
** Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
+
−
* Lars '''Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy'''
+
−
** Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''December 12, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom
−
'''March 29, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex
+
* P2 capabilities work breaking Oomph and CBI ({{bug|528408}})
−
* Lars: '''PDE Build in Maintenance''' - Officially state this ?
+
** Alex: Hidden bug due to adopters using internals.
−
** PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
+
** Alex: Code refactoring in p2 pushed to reduce the chance for such breakage.
−
** Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
+
** Alex: Oomph fixed its codebase to properly check instances so it works with p2 both prior and after adding capabilities.
−
** McQ: '''DECISION''' Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
+
** McQ: What do we do with p2?
−
* Lars: '''Integrate more projects into Platform UI?'''
+
** Alex: Open up the project as much as we can and recruit new committers by being really welcoming to people.
−
** Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
+
−
** Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
+
−
** Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
+
−
** '''DECISION''' to not merge projects at this time.
+
−
* Lars: '''Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list'''
+
−
** McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
+
−
** Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
+
−
** Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. '''AI Dani''' notify mailing list.
+
−
* Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
+
−
** Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
-> Conclusion to not respin M4 due to this bug as it's internal API which projects should not have used.
−
'''March 22, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
−
* Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
+
−
* Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
+
−
* Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
+
−
* Discussion about Che
+
−
** McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
+
−
** Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
+
−
** McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
* Project plan update
−
'''March 15, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
** Dani: No additional change came from anyone else in the PMC so update of executions environments and adding Java 9 are the only thing due.
−
* Dani: '''Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)'''
+
* Next meeting on January 9
−
* Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
+
−
* McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
+
−
* Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
+
−
* Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
+
−
** Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
+
−
** Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
+
−
** Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
+
−
* VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
+
−
** Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
+
−
** Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)
+
  
−
'''March 8, 2016''' - No call
+
'''December 05, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom
 +
* Vacation: Dani will be in vacation end of week, so other PMC member need to cover for him if something comes up for M4.
  
−
<hr/>
+
* Discussion about adding EGit to the SDK? ({{bug|528004}})
−
'''March 1, 2016''' - Dani, Martin
+
** Dani using a shared installed to manage the EGit plug-in.
−
* Dani OOO next week
+
** McQ explains that he thinks EGit is required for a full package but does not feel strong about.
−
* Alex: '''{{bug|179924}} SSH-agent authentication''' 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
+
** Alex: It depends what "SDK" means: SDK to develop plug-ins or SDK to develop Eclipse Platform. We agreed on the former.
−
** Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
+
** Dani, Alex are against adding it because it adds maintaince burden and it is unclear which of the optional packages should be installed.  
−
** Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
+
** Tom, Lars have no strong opinions
−
* EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.
+
** All agree that managing to install this is an easy task
  
−
<hr/>
+
-> Conclusing to not include EGit in the SDK
−
'''February 23, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex
+
−
* Dani: '''Mars.2 is on track'''
+
−
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
+
−
** EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
+
−
* Dani: '''Update on Welcome'''
+
−
** Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
+
−
* McQ: '''Scrollbars on Windows''' and their appearance
+
−
** Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
+
−
** Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
+
−
** McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
+
−
** Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
+
−
** Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
+
−
** Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
* Impact of cross discussion from David about API changes in which David implied that the platform cannot do API breakages
 +
** Dani clarified with David on the cross-mailing list, no changes for us for the process, as we only remove announced. See https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev/msg15032.html
  
−
'''February 16, 2016''' - Alex, Dani, Martin
+
* URL handler registration of Eclipse with the OS
−
* no topics
+
** SAP plans to contribute a way to register Eclipse to certain URLs. If the user clicks on such a URL, Eclipse would open and be able to show the file. This could be useful for installation of new items in the marketplacen client https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=527579. VSCode allows this already vscode:extension/eamodio.gitlens.
 +
** Redhat had similar requirements in the past
 +
** Platform team expects that SAP will also maintain this contribution and take responsibility of it for future releases
 +
** Dani (after meeting): I think extending the current file based mechanism is OK, but we won't register any (including URL) handler
  
−
<hr/>
+
-> Conclusion to work on this enhancement together with SAP, Alex plans to dedicate some time for discussing the technical solution. SAP should open a new bug and link all related bugs to this top-level bug so that the technical details can be discussed
  
−
'''February 9, 2016''' - Alex, McQ, Dani
+
* Discussion of building natives
−
* Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
+
** moved building of SWT binaries for the 3 primary platforms to the Eclipse Foundation
−
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|466370}} Welcome Screen redesign
+
** unfortunately after that the Mac went down - fixed now
−
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|472614}} Smart Project Importer
+
** M4 SWT natives will be built on the Eclipse Foundation hardware
 +
** Launcher still to be moved
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''November 28, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
 +
* Alex: Release Change announcement
 +
** Agreed that we won't mention the ramp-down process.
 +
** Agreed to add API removal details.
 +
** Still work in progress.
 +
* Dani: API Removal process for the new release model
 +
** Agreed to allow removal announcement in ever of the 4 releases. As a consequence every release can have API removals.
 +
** https://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse/API_Central/Deprecation_Policy already reflects this.
 +
* Dani: Meeting notes
 +
** McQ suggested that who joins last has to do it. Dani: not so good since it won't contain the notes for the discussions that happened before.
 +
** Will do it based on rotation and ability to actually write down the notes.
 +
** Dani to do it for this call.
 +
* Dani: Photon plan update
 +
** Will add Java 9 as supported VM.
 +
** Anything else? If so, send Dani a note or update {{bug|527964}}
 +
* McQ: Rename Eclipse Project to Eclipse SDK
 +
** We should only do it when forced by the Foundation and/or Board
 +
** We would need a plan before starting such an effort.
  
−
'''February 2, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
'''November 14, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Tom
−
* Dani: '''Foundation Hires''' - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
+
* Dani:
−
* Dani: '''Neon M5''' went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
+
** Presented our new release model to Planning Council. Was welcomed. No objections. But needs discussion what the Release Train will do.
−
* Dani: '''CQ Deadline''' on Feb.12 for Neon
+
** RC1 went well, RC2 this week.
−
* Dani: {{bug|486647}} for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
+
−
** With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
+
−
** Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
+
−
*** Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
+
−
*** We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
+
−
*** Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
+
−
** Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''November 07, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars
−
'''January 26, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars
+
* For the 3 months releases, we have have a development freeze after RC1 until RC3. After RC3 master will be opened again for development. Development is possible until RC1, so this will result in a freeze period of approx. 2 weeks.
−
* Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
+
* For releases versions of the platform we will use semantic versioning as before (4.8, 4.9, 4.10, ..)
−
* Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
+
* Eclipse SDK will use versions not branding names unless the release train moves also the same cycle.
−
* Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track
+
* Splash will continue show the release year and month
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''October 31, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Alex,
−
'''January 19, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Tom: '''Bugzilla Landing Page''' - EMO said both PMCs need to be contacted
−
* Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
+
** Bug IDs, Equinox product and components remain in place, only the landing page will be updated
−
* Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
+
* Dani: '''M3 Respin'''
−
** Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
+
** Issue had been found by a team member, but got lost between different teams
−
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''PDE Build''' - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
+
** Resolved and respun very fast, the fix is out now
−
** Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement '''in the Platform'''
+
* Dani: '''Release Cycles and Java Alignment'''
−
** Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
+
** Planning Council F2F meeting was at EclipseCon Europe; planning call will be on Thursday
−
** Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
+
** Initially, felt like aligning with Java 18.3 was a good idea, but for now the plan is keeping the Oxygen SR rhythm and releasing Oxygen.3a aligned with Java
−
** Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
+
** In case the Oracle release should slip, it will be most likely be named 18.4 (whatever month the release ends up in)
−
* Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
+
* All: '''Platform Release Rhythm'''
−
** Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
+
** At ECE, many people were surprised about changing release rhythm but the plan was generally appreciated
−
* SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
+
** Should stick to the communicated Photon plan though and change only afterwards
−
* Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
+
** Alex suggests promoting a Milestone build from master (properly marked up as such) aligned with the Java 18 release
−
** Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
+
*** This would promote master as something that can be used
−
* Martin: '''Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?'''
+
*** After Photon, we will release 4 times from master - there won't be any maintenance builds any more
−
** Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
+
*** For the release train, there will also be release candidates.
−
** Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
+
−
*** Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
+
−
** Debian or SuSE should be OK;
+
−
** Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
<strike>October 24, 2017 - cancelled due to ECE</strike>
−
'''January 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
−
* Dani: '''Upstaffing the PMC'''
+
−
** Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
+
−
* Dani: '''Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng''' - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
+
−
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''Remove PDE Build from our drops?'''
+
−
** Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
+
−
** McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
+
−
** Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
+
−
* Dani: {{bug|485257}} '''Copyright Policy Change''' - waiting on EMO/Legal input
+
−
* Alex: '''Updating SWT to Java7'''
+
−
* McQ: '''Travel for EclipseCon'''
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''January 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani
+
'''October 17, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars, Alex
−
* Dani: '''PMC Membership'''
+
* '''Conf.system:''' Fallback to McQ's number is not a good solution (can't give out the moderator code)
 +
** Foundation (Denis) is aware of the problem, looking for a solution sooner than later
 +
** Skype group call, or zoom.us would work for Dani and McQ
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|526065}} Java 9 to Oxygen.1a beta update issue'''
 +
** Users who had the Java 9 beta installed and "update" to Oxygen.1a are broken
 +
** McQ: Updating from "beta" to "final" is not necessarily supposed to be working (Lars disagrees)
 +
** Not yet sure what's causing the issue .. p2 bug, or different groupID for Java9beta
 +
** Fix the issue if it looks like a real bug or easy to fix ... otherwise just post a message, preferredly on the Marketplace client (''Dani: that part is done already'')
 +
* Lars: '''Release Cycle Discussion'''
 +
** McQ still in favor of making every milestone a release
 +
*** Alex thinks we're not there yet in terms of releng, there's still too many manual steps. Would prefer slower cadence (eg 3 months) until more automation is there (updating pom.xml, version mgmt, ...)
 +
*** With 4 releases per year (like today) but no more maintenance branches/backports, there's potentially less work than today
 +
*** Try starting with a release every 2nd milestone; fix automation; then strive for releasing every milestone.
 +
*** Dani thinks the model shouldn't change in the middle of Photon; look for feedback then move to the new model next year
 +
** McQ: If we switch to the new model now (Oxygen.2), what do we lose?
 +
*** Martin: Any bigger feature that would need to move into a branch? - Dani: Advanced Source Lookup
 +
*** Dani: Also our rules about "no new features" and "PMC Approval" would need to change
 +
*** '''Continue discussion in 2 weeks''' (skip next week due to EclipseCon)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''December 15, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
+
'''October 10, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex, Martin
−
* No calls until Jan.5
+
* Dani: '''Oxygen.1a respin'''
−
* Looking for a new PMC member
+
** Primary reason for respin was, that people who have existing XText installed would be broken when updating the Platform
 +
** Opportunity to piggy-back JDT critical fixes was welcome
 +
* Dani: '''Equinox Move''' - Review passed without objections, working on implementation now
 +
** Expecting less trouble than with the Platform and JDT merges recently
 +
** Foundation want to keep Equinox as a brand, therefore will be a subproject (beside Platform, JDT, PDE)
 +
** So to increase the committer base, the fast track option will now apply; also, more alignment in terms of PMC.
 +
** Confirmed again that we will ask Tom to join our PMC. Approval can be found in [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg03166.html this thread].
 +
* Dani: '''Planning Council - Rolling Releases Update'''
 +
** Should remove some of the work maintaining 2 streams - simply release from master regularly
 +
** In the past, API breakage (migration guide) was allowed only once per year - how to deal with this moving forward
 +
** Handle with semantic versioning; how to give adopters sufficient time to adjust
 +
** There's usually 2 camps for every topic being discussed ... though practically, Platform sets the pace
 +
** Release Naming - New Name every quarter? Versioning scheme? (like 2017.4 or 17.04)
 +
** How to simplify processes (also in terms of IP), can the Foundation scale up? Perhaps not more work, but more deadlines
 +
*** In terms of the Release Review, only the N&N and the Migration Guide are relevant; need to satisfy small and big consumers
 +
* Martin: '''Reddeer Contribution'''
 +
** When we last discussed this, it was an important criterion that any contributor can run the tests easily
 +
** Alex: Looks good, essentially boils down to running "mvn clean verify" in the PDE repo (or right-click > Run as Reddeer from the IDE) - '''AI Alex''' will have a video sent to the PMC list
 +
* Alex: '''API Removal in Context of Rolling Releases'''
 +
** Which Rules to apply for allowing removal of API; Allow removal in any release?
 +
*** McQ: The real question is, how long it takes consumers to adopt to removal
 +
*** Dani: Is more conservative regarding deletion - the value removing something is often smaller than the ripple it causes
 +
*** McQ: If there is code in our codebase that significantly slows us down, it should be remove even if API
 +
** Martin: With more releases, there's less push to upgrade ; but will consumers know they are broken? - Semantic versioning should address that, but who really uses upper version ranges ... they have caused more pain than benefit in the past
 +
** Dani: In the past, with our 3-year deprecation plan, Major versions have not been updated even on announced removals...
 +
** McQ: If we are earnest about faster velocity, we '''have to''' fully adopt semantic versioning practices. If we as producers have done what we could, our job is done - consumers who don't use upper version ranges are on their own
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''December 8, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, John, Dani
+
'''October 3, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin
−
* Discussed {{bug|483803}} regarding the BREE for org.eclipse.core.jobs.
+
* '''Conf system woes''' - Dani couldn't dial in, Denis restarted the bridge leaving Martin and Alex in a Zombie bridge
−
** PMC decided to move it back to JavaSE-1.7 but keep databinding on JavaSE-1.8
+
** '''ACTION McQ''' will send out conf.details using IBM's bridge
−
* Dani: Reminder: {{bug|475185}} Plan Update 1 - Due with Neon M4 next week
+
* {{bug|520720}} Mickael's question on Performance improvement
 +
** Dani: There is already an asynchronous RequestLayout API for clients, and APIs already suggest clients use the async one
 +
*** Therefore, changing the synchronous API to work asynchronously doesn't look right.
 +
** Alex: We seem to be mixing two aspects here -- agree regarding RequestLayout concerns, but why should the ProgressMonitor one be a problem?
 +
*** Dani: Agree that the ProgressMonitor approach makes sense, but a very careful review is needed - existing code already subclasses ProgressMonitor, need to make sure that expected methods are still called
 +
*** '''ACTION Dani''' will do a careful review of the ProgressMonitor part and deny the generic RequestLayout part
 +
* Dani: '''Equinox Restructuring''' request for the move is in, will work with Tom and Foundation forward
 +
* Dani: '''Oxygen.1a''' - RC2 is in for JUnit5 and Java9
 +
** Respin of Oxygen.1 for {{bug|520176}} Mac 10.13 High Sierra problem? - Not currently planned, there will be 1a instead
 +
** A feature patch is another option, providing patched SWT; and, there's the workarounds
 +
* Dani: '''Rolling Release''' - 2 topics: rolling release, and alignment with Java Update Releases
 +
** Some projects on the train have alignment goals with other projects outside Java; will discuss again in the Planning Council
 +
* Alex: '''{{bug|522733}} webkit crash''' - A workaround is available, in contact with webkit devs for a complete fix to keep Photon usable
 +
** Workaround would introduce a small memory leak, but only on the first instance of webkit created
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''December 1, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani
 
−
* McQ: The new 5-Dollar Raspberry Pi and Orion (Java server works just fine on the Pi2).
 
−
** Node server is a bit smaller but single-user and no git - nice for developing node apps though
 
−
* Dani: '''Mars.2 Endgame Plan sent'''
 
−
* Dani: {{bug|475185}} Plan Update 1 - Due with Neon M4 next week
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''September 26, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin
−
'''November 25, 2015''' - McQ, Martin, Alex
+
* {{bug|520176}} '''MacOSX 10.13 (High Sierra) Menus Disabled'''
−
* Alex: '''Bumping SWT to Java8'''
+
** Only non-English Locales are affected
−
** Lars wants to use Lambdas {{bug|481195}}; Markus keller wants static helper methods;
+
** For 4.7.1a and Photon, a fix is in
−
** Stephan Herrmann - University Research for Thread safety through typed annotations
+
** Foundation [https://www.eclipse.org/org/press-release/20170925criticalbug.php Press Release (Newsletter)] is out with information how to work around
−
*** Are they ready to contribute? - Probably yes, needs to be clarified; having better dev support for Thread Safety will be a huge help
+
** Tweets are around as well -- keep spreading the message
−
*** Dani: Thinks that going to Java8 feels a bit early for SWT, which is at the bottom of the technology stack ... would prefer 1 year later
+
* '''Equinox Move Review''' - progressing
−
*** John: Lambda support doesn't necessarily require SWT to be Java 8 itself (it could just be more lambda friendly)
+
* Alex: {{bug|522733}} '''GTK Crash on Close preventing IDE Restart''' - can it go into 4.7.1a ?
−
**** Won't help with base listeners, but probably with mouse events and related .. follow up in the bugreport
+
** Seen with Fedora 27 (Webkitgtk 2.18)
−
**** Labdas are more than syntactic sugar, it's more efficient ... still there is more value in Thread safety annotations
+
** Foundation wanted to keep Java9 stuff separate, so pushing it there might not even help
−
*** McQ: Assumes there would be an extensive discussion on cross-project anyways ... but there is evidence now we could get value from doing this.
+
** The issue is serious (hard crash preventing restart of the IDE), though fortunately not many people have that particular webkitgtk version yet
−
* Dani: '''Update on Move of platform.text'''
+
** Investigate details and possible workarounds, then consider our options -- maybe a Foundation Newsletter similar to the OSX 10.13 issue
−
** Approval from IP, will soon move to platform.ui - will keep platform.text bugzilla.
+
−
* John: '''FEEP'''
+
−
** As discussed on the [[Architecture Council]]
+
−
* McQ: '''Platform Support'''
+
−
** Many Platforms are not really active - IBM keeps alive some of them, for example RHEL4
+
−
** Recent mailinglist asking for Mac 32bit, have we done enough on announcements ?
+
−
** '''Agreement''' there's no case for catering more to people who don't read announcements and follow the project. Having a mailinglist ask once in a while is OK.
+
−
** Dani: Planning Update for Neon / M4 - please comment on the bug.  
+
−
*** John: Plan document is not really exhaustive on the oldest working Platform - RHEL4 surely won't work in Neon.
+
−
** Alex: Consider a "Build your Own" approach for the more obscure Platforms? - Frees us from keeping older binaries in sync
+
−
*** Did that for ARM32 and ARM64 in master - can build by just calling maven
+
−
*** McQ: Who would ever validate that scripts are still valid... (Linux community: provides no binaries at all, who validates?)
+
−
*** Alex: Providing scripts is a lot less work than providing stable and widely compatible binaries (about 1/3 of the work)
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''November 18, 2015''' - Alex, John, Dani
+
'''September 19, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars
−
* Dani: EclipseCon NA 2016 submission from our team:
+
* '''Async APIs request from the eclipse-pmc list''' (not discussed today)
−
** https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2016/session/scaling-eclipse-high-dpi-dots-inch-monitors-challenges-and-solutions
+
* Lars: '''Java 6-month release cycles'''
−
** https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2016/session/java-9-support-eclipse
+
** Alex likes the 6 month idea - less backporting
−
* John: mentioned FEEP
+
** McQ would ideally like full releases every 3 months (except not releasing anything unfinished)
−
** Alex has concerns that there's not an equal opportunity for everyone
+
** Dani: If Java really delivers every 6 months (will they?), Eclipse could consider rolling releases every milestone. There is a doc from the Planning Council (Mélanie Bats) in that regard.
−
* Alex: new Lucene version: would like to put it in
+
** Dani: Support for the public JDKs will be limited to the current release only (6mo)
−
** cross-projects has already been asked and we got no negative vote
+
** Risk: Oracle Java may be working on big features "in the background", if there is very little time adopting new features (current license doesn't allow releasing stuff built on Beta's) it's hard for Eclipse to keep up
−
** CQs are approved
+
** Lars: Some teams already moving to Kotlin...
−
** seems to be blocked by Orbit
+
** Dani: More discusssions planned at ECE, AC etc
−
** ==> Alex to find out why and report back next week in the PMC call
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' to wait for now for (a) the Planning Council announcement and (b) how Java will actually implement and live up to their plans. Work towards faster release cycles (that's a good message to the consumers anyways).
 +
** Will need to work on details. If there's more releases, and each one needs a review, it's more work on release records and reviews. Already on a good path here, paperwork reduced to a matter of an hour.
 +
* Dani: Java 9 (Oxygen.1a) round the door. Plan is a full release.
 +
* McQ: {{bug|520176}} '''MacOS 10.13 menubar issue''' people at Apple are also looking at it. Biggest problem is that it's not 100% reproducible. Might end up with some System Properties to be set to resolve the problem.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''September 12, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
 +
* Dani asked Alex to look into {{bug|517063}} with high prio. We need this for M2.
 +
* Dani: sub-project merge
 +
** McQ and Lars approved my message regarding sub-project. Will send out the note today.
 +
** Still an issue with IP log not being merged
 +
** Release engineers can no longer restart the HIPPs
 +
* Started to discuss [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg03116.html Advise for performance enhancement making API methods behave async]
 +
** We need more time to verify the fix and look at the patch. Will discuss and decide next week.
  
−
'''November 11, 2015''' - McQ, John, Dani
+
'''September 5, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Martin
−
* Discussed new meeting time that works for Martin
+
* Alex: {{bug|521639}} '''Mac Signing Issues for Oxygen.1'''
−
** John to send a note that proposes Tuesday, 11:00 EST / 17:00 CET (starting in two weeks)
+
** 3 requests out of 5 failing, don't know yet why - webmasters assume hardware issues, trying to move to a different machine
−
* John: Alex mentioned at EclipseCon that there's no one in SWT team overlooking cross-platform, e.g. to craft new APIs
+
** RC4:
−
** owning one platform is a full-time job
+
*** Security fix in p2 ({{bug|518031}})
−
** would need another person in SWT
+
*** Changes in Releng scripts to run tests on different Mac machine
−
** for now one of the two co-leads needs to own that task - Dani to talk to Pradeep and the co-leads
+
−
* John to Dani: how was EclipseCon
+
−
** Dani: Great! Lots of talking to people; spent quite some time at the Hackathon; only saw 4 talks
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
 
+
'''August 29, 2017''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
−
'''October 28, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
+
* All: '''Conference System Woes''' - 3 tries for McQ (race conditions?), 2 tries for Martin (silence first), 10 tries for Dani
−
* Dani: Discuss new meeting time that works for Martin
+
* Dani: '''Subproject Merge''' done after some hiccups, no complaints since Fri
−
** decided that John will send out a doodle poll
+
** Subprojects are now "archived" with a comment that they got merged into the parent project
−
* Dani: Discuss our position regarding the removal of committer emeritus ({{bug|480670}})
+
** '''AI Dani''' planning to send another notification to mailing lists:
−
** everyone agreed that we would like to keep this for the following reasons:
+
*** former PLs to become Repo Maintainers responsible for signoff and planning
−
*** it is a good way reward those committers who invested lots of their time and made significant contributions to a project
+
*** Bugzilla remaining the same
−
*** it makes no sense to remove something that currently works and ask projects to maintain this on their website
+
*** Some former subproject leads already stepped up as combined project co-leads (Lars, Lakshmi, Sarika)
−
** we have to make sure that the emeritus list doesn't get stale
+
** McQ: Move forward towards the new structure, but there's also need to push for responsibility among the subcomponents (finding go-to persons...)
 +
* Dani: '''StyledText improvement request on the ML''' (Pluggable selection model)
 +
** point to the e4 incubator for experiments, encourage innovation though might be quite hard and pervasive
 +
* RC3 looking good (except for build issues on the Foundation side, no I-Build since Aug.22 - Mac DMG is at risk for RC3)
 +
* Dani away next week, please watch the list for approvals towards RC4 next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
 
+
'''August 22, 2017''' - Alex, Dani, Martin
−
'''October 21, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
+
* All: '''Conference System Woes''' - Dani had 7 minutes trouble dialing in; Alex was kicked out
−
* Dani: so far no negative vote in the vote to move platform.text into platform.ui
+
* Dani: '''Plan''' - '''AI Martin''' review
−
* McQ: Martin can no longer join, McQ would like to move the meeting
+
** Target Platform reduced - removed too much? - and Subproject plans. Rest is copy-and-paste.
−
** detailed several alternatives but no fit yet
+
* Dani: '''Subproject Merge''' - Everything approved, waiting for implementation by EMO.
−
** decided to continue the discussion in our next meeting
+
* Dani: '''RC2 this week''' - Still many Platform/UI bugs, Dani will make a pass moving out since Lars is on vacation
 +
* Martin: '''feature/bundle version issues'''
 +
** Dani: Checking versions is quite time consuming, there's no tooling solution for the workspace right now (but there are reports).
 +
** For branding bundles and features, rules are different than for others - Dani currently doing those, since few people have access
 +
** Currently we're looking good, but automation would be better than manual nagging
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
 
+
'''August 15, 2017''' - Alex, Dani
−
'''October 14, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
+
* Dani: '''subproject merge''' initiated - waiting for webmasters
−
* Dani: Community asked to move platform.text into platform.ui (see [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-text-dev/msg00484.html https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-text-dev/msg00484.html])
+
* Dani: Provided Photon (4.8) release record and plan - please provide comments
−
** 3 solutions:
+
* Alex and Dani discussed feature/bundle version issues - next builds should be better
−
*** make the move
+
−
*** make a more radical move to merge everything into 'Platform'
+
−
*** leave things as is and let new people join platform.text
+
−
** McQ: merging everything together is not an option. Skills are too different. Resources, Debug and SWT need to be kept separate.
+
−
** Dani: fine with the move as long as it does not serve as argument to merge everything into one pot
+
−
** Alex: committers need to accept the move
+
−
** PMC decision: OK with the move but Dani to ask the platform.text and platform.ui committers whether they are both OK with it. Dani to become co-lead of Platform UI
+
−
 
+
−
* John from Board Meeting: Eclipse Foundation wants to change perception that Eclipse is just an IDE. Therefore they would like to change the name of our project ("Eclipse").
+
−
** McQ:
+
−
*** this will not be for free. The name is used at many places (code, webpage, Help) and also by companies in their marketing
+
−
*** maybe we just have to accept we made a mistake in the beginning and now live with it
+
−
*** can't think of a good name - which indicates we shouldn't change it ("Platform" is not good and "Eclipse SDK" or "Eclipse IDE" hide that it is the base for "RCP" apps)
+
−
** decided to talk about this again in the next call
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
−
'''October 7, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani, Martin
+
'''August 8, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani
−
* Dani: '''{{bug|108668}} Default Text Encoding UTF-8 ?'''
+
* Eclipse [[Asterisk]] system is not working reliably (again). It took Dani 6 minutes until he could dial in (using the Swiss number - US number failed repeatedly). McQ can't dial in until 10 min later.
−
** On Linux and Mac, the Platform encoding is UTF-8 ; on Windows it's Cp1252 in most countries around the globe, even with Windows 10
+
* Dani: starting the '''planning record for Photon''' to announce participation in M1
−
** Using the Platform encoding ensures interoperability with all local tools (editors, compilers, ...)
+
** Toplevel items: JUnit5, Java9. Subplans on the Wiki.
−
*** '''Desire for UTF-8 only for Windows exchanging files with users on other systems'''
+
* Dani: '''subproject merge''' - wanted to wait for M1, but should be done this week
−
*** '''Changing the encoding of an existing workspace after the fact is a no go''' (risk of data corruption when loading/saving a file, some encodings are lossy)
+
* Alex: '''ppc64be''' - Sravan is waiting on final decision whether it will be removed in Photon
−
*** '''Using an encoding different than the OS encoding is problematic too''' (risk of data corruption when importing or D&D files from the OS)
+
** Dani: PMC decision was settled, so removed from Eclipse plan - IBM ''might'' still continue building it for internal use
−
** Proposal 1: UTF-8 on new empty workspaces on Windows ? --&gt; Might mean that external tools don't work as expected
+
−
** Proposal 2: Make users aware (Restore Oomph Welcome, which was disabled via {{bug|459486}}) ? --&gt; But many users don't understand implications, other tools also don't do this
+
−
** Proposal 3: Ask for encoding when team-sharing since only team-shared projects cause issues (eg EGit hook) ? --&gt; But on "push" it may be too late
+
−
** Martin: Encoding describes content, so should be managed with the content (as a project setting)
+
−
*** '''--&gt; Proposal 4: Move to a model where we encourage setting the project-level encoding preference'''
+
−
**** When creating a project, set the workspace default on project level automatically --&gt; ensures that projects remain sane over their lifetime
+
−
**** For projects lacking the project-level preference, introduce a Problem Marker (Warning) with quick fix to either UTF-8 or workspace default
+
−
** '''Decision:'''
+
−
*** '''We won't change the workspace default''' -- no use breaking existing users
+
−
*** '''We'll set the project encoding pro-actively'''
+
−
** Open questions:
+
−
*** Do we need tooling to convert project from encoding A to encoding B (if project preference was set incorrectly initially) ?
+
−
*** Shall we try setting source encoding on drag-and-drop, or shall the project dictate the policy ?
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''September 30, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
+
'''August 1, 2017''' - no call
−
* Dani: will send a note to PMC list asking to approve new Debug leadership (Sarika)
+
−
* Dani: we should finalize our API removal discussion from last week
+
−
** agreed that APIs marked for removal have to be annotated with @noreference, @noextend and @noimplement
+
−
** agreed that components should be allowed to remove API but they have to provide good reasons
+
−
** agreed that we won't allow to delete APIs simply because they are deprecated
+
−
** agreed that the PMC will decide case by case i.e. there will be no general rule
+
−
** regarding version numbering we decided to also decide this case by case
+
−
** Dani to update the removal document and have it reviewed by the PMC
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
 
+
−
'''September 23, 2015''' - Dani, John, Alex, Martin
+
−
* Dani: '''JDT Core''' - Co-lead going to step up
+
−
* Dani: '''API Removal Discussion'''
+
−
** Q1: When do we actually delete API? What's the benefit compared to the pain that we cause ?
+
−
*** Example of methods that don't do anything any more or do wrong things -- those should be removed
+
−
*** Example TableTreeViewer : Continue having the API doesn't hurt, there's no significant benefit removing it
+
−
**** Alex: TableTree was completely broken on GTK for 2-3 years ... keeping such components that don't work properly lowers the quality
+
−
**** Dani: Is there actual proof of bugs ? Or could it be working fine on Windows RCP ? If it's deprecated, people use it at own risk; do we really need to break them, if it provides value to some people on some Platforms ?
+
−
**** John: In TableTreeViewer case, EMF had some generic code (was unclear if the path was ever taken) and CDT could update easily
+
−
*** '''Summary''': scheduling for removal is OK with good arguments. Give Adopters a chance to respond before removal takes place.
+
−
 
+
−
** Q2: '''How to deal with the versions?'''
+
−
*** Dani: Updating the major causes major pain on everyone (adoption work), so this should be avoided
+
−
**** Actively developed plugins will notice source breakage when recompiling anyways -- no need to update the major for them.
+
−
**** For dormant plugins (not recompiled), everyone will break when updating the major although only few may be affected - is it worth notifying those small percentage that might break ?
+
−
**** Plugins who don't care recompiling may have to live with ClassNotFoundException
+
−
**** Tooling exists: API Use Scan Tools can discover incorrect API references that are not announced by the versions
+
−
*** '''Summary:''' Handle the Major with care -- in most cases, the cost of updating the major is not justified by the benefit.
+
−
 
+
−
** John: '''Announcement''' When thinking about removing something, we should announce that far and wide and ask for feedback
+
−
*** Martin: But which channel is as effective as actually removing it ? There's always who don't actually listen...
+
−
*** John: Still, giving a possibility to listen is important. Agree that mentioning in the release docs is not enough.
+
−
*** Dani: When making a release, also send message with a link to the removals page (for all removals that are planned)
+
−
** John: Mechanisms for maintaining binary compatibility while only breaking source compatibility (but it's a lot of work!)
+
−
*** Dani: Agree, in this case better just leave it in there
+
−
 
+
−
** Alex: What to do next time, can we remove more stuff ?
+
−
*** Martin: Should be at the discretion of the committers. They do the work. If they see the need for removal, they should be allowed to do so (as long as they play by the rules, like early announcement). Need to define what the rules are.
+
−
 
+
−
** John: There was an interesting discussion on cross-project, asking for well-known points in time where major breakage can occur
+
−
*** Eg release but without all the deprecated at certain well-known point in time eg every 3-5 years
+
−
*** '''AI''' ''continue that discussion on the Architecture Council''
+
−
 
+
−
** '''Summary:''' Essentially do what we did, plus more communication upfront, allow people to respond before deletion happens (to avoid churn)
+
−
*** Committers still need to be able to delete stuff when they find it necessary.
+
−
*** Updating the major (or not) to be decided case by case, but in many cases "breaking everyone" is not justified against "notifying few dormant plugins".
+
−
 
+
−
* Alex: '''Bumping the minimum GTK version again''' (may cause issues on Platforms like AIX -- to be discussed when it's time)
+
  
 +
'''July 25, 2017''' - Alex, Lars, Dani
 +
* project merge got go, Dani to implement it with webmaster and then send out the announcement this or next week. E-mail will also mention that existing project leads can become co-leads on Eclipse Platform
 +
* Discussion if CVS should be removed from the SDK build, Alex +1, Lars +1, Dani +1
 +
* Discussion if the remaining 2.0 compatibility layer can be removed, Dani: OK to remove but other plug-ins might still have dependencies to it, must the also updated, as well as the documentation
  
 +
'''July 18, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
 +
* project merge review awaiting go from Wayne - Dani pinged again in the bug report
 +
* Dani will kick off planning for Photon a bit earlier since he will be in Bangalore the next 12 days. Platform UI already started.
 +
* M1 on August 11
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''September 16, 2015''' - John, Martin
+
'''July 11, 2017''' - no meeting
−
* John: '''API Removal Discussion'''
+
−
** No urgency now -- changes have been reverted for now, and scheduled for 2017
+
−
** Updating the major of a bundle knowingly breaks everyone/most adopters
+
−
*** In the past, breaking changes have often been small enough to work without increasing the major
+
−
*** One can argue that removing TableTreeViewer is big enough to warrant updating the major
+
−
** Versioning packages has not been done in the past due to the huge upcoming maintenance effort when starting to do so
+
−
** "Release Version" is decoupled from "bundle versions" already (and may move to date-based versions eg "2016.1" with rolling updates moving forward
+
−
** --&gt; will have more discussion next week
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''July 4, 2017''' - no meeting
−
'''September 9, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John, McQ
+
−
* John: '''Planning Council Updates'''
+
−
** 4 planned releases (March, June, September, December -- essentially end of each quarter) with flexible contents
+
−
** Mid December rather than end to avoid churn, so this one is a little shorter
+
−
** Only June is "major" - allowing to drop off, or breaking changes; others are "minor"
+
−
** McQ want to reduce the number of simultaneous streams -- if "master" is more stable more often that's OK, but avoid too many "live" streams
+
−
 
+
−
* Software is getting more important - would be good to better support multicore
+
−
 
+
−
* John: '''IntelliJ change in licensing / sales model'''
+
−
** Many eclipse-positive comments on the announcement blog
+
−
** Possibility putting Money on Eclipse Development may become interesting for companies in this context
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''September 2, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
+
'''June 27, 2017''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* Dani: '''EclipseDay India''' on Saturday, 200 attendees wanted to join, hat to cut to 150
+
* '''Equinox Merge to the Eclipse TLP'''
−
** Keynote by Mike Milinkovich - large Community
+
** Keep Equinox as a separate Project, to allow independent Equinox releases without Platform (and keep Bugzilla simple)
−
 
+
** The only argument for stronger integration would be getting more committers, but there is no strong need and we have the FastTrack process in place for that
−
* Dani: '''Policy for and Mars.2'''
+
* '''Eclipse Merge of Component (Sub)Projects into Platform'''
−
** Do we want to stick to the "Service" model or allow feature updates ?
+
** Just 4 Projects: Platform, Equinox, JDT, PDE (plus the incubators for e4 and JDT)
−
** Mars.1 winding down -- sticking to "Critical Fixes Only" for that
+
** Former (Sub)Project Leads to become "Component Leads", "Technology Owners" or "Repository Owners"
−
** Too much in the maintenance stream causes risk of defocus ... are there relevant features that are worth the extra effort ?
+
*** Repository Ownership is appealing as the structure is very clear (+1 Dani,Alex,McQ)
−
** Dani: Suggests to require PMC Approval for adding a feature in - example candidate: Improvements for HiDPI
+
** Platform Lead initially Dani, more Co-Leads could step up if they want
−
*** Also: What about version number (2nd digit version update), IP disclosures, Translations ... ?
+
*** Main work is helping component leads if they can't come to a consensus - usually less work than PMC duties
−
*** Dani would suggest sticking to 3rd digit update only in the marketing release number; but a Release Review would be needed
+
* Dani: '''JSR 376 Ballot'''
−
 
+
** Public review reconsideration ballot got approved by all except Red Hat who abstained
−
'''August 26, 2015''' -
+
** Much progress in the past weeks, consensus except RH abstained
−
* Dani/Alex/Martin can't join (traveling)
+
** Looks like the OOBE of Java9 would tolerate reflection, currently looks like on track for a September Release
 +
* '''Vacations''' many people will be off next week, especially in the U.S.
 +
** PMC call will be skipped next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''August 19, 2015''' - Alex, Dani
+
'''June 20, 2017''' - MQ, Dani, Lars, Alex
−
* nothing to discuss
+
* Attracting new contributors discussions - code cleanup and deletion of old paths needed
 +
** Alex: Big issue to get people working on codebase and considering many now irrelevant paths in the codebase
 +
** Dani: Cleanups should be done by the one starting them through the whole SDK
 +
** Lars: Not feasible as some projects are slower pace moving and the change might require more effort than one can or is willing to spend in his free time
 +
** Alex: Great opportunity to have new people joining by doing simple tasks and grow them into full committers
 +
** McQ: We have to come up with list of items we would like to get cleaned and properly follow our deprecation policy even if the migration guide for Photon get really big with things we schedule for removal in the future.
 +
* Dani: Sub-projects merge
 +
** Name of the new project - McQ: Everyone refers to it as Platform so natural choice it is
 +
** JDT, PDE, Platform (subprojects) to become single project
 +
** Person responsible for some code area in the merged project - to be further dicussed
 +
* Dani: Dropping Xulrunner support - PMC to approve it in the bug
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''August 12, 2015''' - John, Dani
+
'''Juni 13, 2017''' - MQ, Dani, Lars
−
* John asked whether we run on Windows 10
+
* Dani: Release review for 4.7 was successful
−
** Dani: yes, the team already tested on it a few weeks ago. Runs smoothly one bug so far. Browser widget works despite new browser (Edge)
+
* Dani: Rebuild for 4.7RCa required due to new EMF version and a fix for a critical bug which resulted in duplicated menu entries
−
** ''Martin (added after the meeting): A CDT update is needed to keep the Terminal from hanging (see {{bug|474327}}, will release with Mars.1). Got some duplicates already. Workaround is switch the Win10 Console to "Legacy Mode".''
+
−
* Dani would like to get plan feedback by Friday EOD
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''August 5, 2015''' - McQ, John, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
−
* PC meeting later today (planning calendar, calling SR1/2 "Update 1/2" instead
+
−
** adding another release before Christmas might be a next step - even if Platform contributes identical bits
+
−
 
+
−
* Dani: '''[[Eclipse/Mars Retrospective]]'''
+
−
** Move more components to Tycho build? (Would still need Ant to test against final build/bits)
+
−
** Contribution Review Dates: joined by some components but not all
+
−
** Error Reporter: Interesting to look at top ten but the sheer number is too big
+
−
*** John - based on Orion experience with similar error reporting :
+
−
**** Looking at changes in reported issues is more interesting than looking at reports themselves
+
−
**** Reports help getting contributions (But, Dani finds that "just adding a null check" is often not what's desired for Java .. though helpful for Javascript)
+
−
 
+
−
* Dani: Foundation IP team doesn't require updating copyright notices per contribution any more (since that information is in git anyways)
+
−
** The Project has to agree
+
−
** Some contributors like to have their name in the source -- that's OK, no requirement to remove author information, but no requirement to add either
+
−
** Won't remove existing lists (they never claimed to be complete, since there always was the "...and others" copyright notice
+
−
** Dani to sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02422.html request for voting]
+
−
 
+
−
* Dani: Switching to '''Jetty 9.3.x (which requires JRE 8)'''
+
−
** JRE 8 from Oracle (and also from IBM) exists for all Reference Platforms
+
−
** Except Solaris, because we only support Solaris 32-bit and the JRE only exists as 64-bit
+
−
** But the Plan for Neon is to have 64-bit Solaris support
+
−
** New Language features in Java 8 are adopted, contributors would like to start using Java 8
+
−
** McQ: In the past, staying on older Java was desired to enable more widespread use ... today, this argument does not seem valid any more, in fact likely more contributions / community is enabled by moving to Java 8
+
−
** Dani: Only concern is some "non reference" Platforms like HP-UX might not have JREs initially; but that's OK as long as the reference platforms are good
+
−
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move to JRE 8 and allow projects to use Java 8 in their code.
+
−
 
+
−
* Dani: Looking for a contributor for SWT improvements for GTK3
+
−
 
+
−
* Martin: '''libwebkitgtk-3 on Ubuntu 14 forcing GTK 2''' not working ?
+
−
** Alex: Using libwebkitgtk-4 which is much more stable, but not implementing the full SWT API
+
−
** Most distros don't ship libwebkit for gtk-2 any more since it's not supported upstream any more and has many security issues
+
  
−
* Alex: '''Build SWT at the Foundation'''
+
* Merge of the sub-projects
−
** Work with the Foundation going well, expect to have RHEL machines deployed at the foundation next month
+
** Planned for M1, desired to be coordinated with the move of Equinox to Platform
 +
** We prefer to keep the project pages and wikis so that all the information is kept
 +
** Preferable we want to have one committer list for Eclipse platform
 +
** Dani to check with foundation how the merge can be done
  
 +
'''May 30, 2017''' - Martin, Dani, Lars
 +
* Dani: Please approve or disapprove the release review
 +
* Dani: '''Starting the Debugger doesn't work always'''
 +
** Occurs for Lars, but isn't reproducible - one of the top 3 things to fix if steps to reproduce are found
 +
** Lars: Equinox replaced the DS implementation in 4.7, the issue is probably related
 +
** Failure is totally random: On a very slow Virtual Machine, it failed almost always (9 failures out of 10); on other machine it works most of the time; even after working fine 3 times, it may fail the 4th time; seems to occur more frequently on older machines than newer ones.
 +
** Martin: try with a reverse debugger like [http://chrononsystems.com/products/chronon-time-travelling-debugger/download Chronon] ?
 +
*** Should help by just collecting a log; and when the failure occurs, "play back" the log to understand under what condition the race condition occurs; the a reproducible case is available, and the log can also be sent around between different developers for investigation, potentiall also to Apache Felix upstream
 +
* Dani: '''Equinox Launcher Issues'''
 +
** During M7, a change was made to ignore certain command-line arguments
 +
** This caused 2 regressions - {{bug|517013}} and {{bug|516349}} MacOSX restart regression
 +
** Java 9 will probably change the parameters again, see {{bug|516911}} :(
 +
** It's getting too late to make any more changes to the Launcher. Re-compiling on different hardware has already caused {{bug|517013}}, it's possible that more issues (not yet known) might be caused by the rebuild. With Java 9 probably changing again, we don't win much by rebuilding to try and align with something that's not yet released.
 +
*** Option A: Put options into the eclipse.ini -- today it works for both Java 8 and Java 9
 +
*** Option B: Add the "probably proposed" new option to the launcher, will need to rebuild the launcher again
 +
*** Option C: Revert the launcher to what it was before (and well tested) back to M6 - for running with Java 9, the options have to be added manually
 +
** Users will have to read on a webpage what needs to be done for Java 9 launching; for Eclipse SDK, a single option is needed - some add-on components
 +
*** Additional complexity: Different JVMs need different options (IBM, Oracle...)
 +
*** Martin: {{bug|517452}} Introduce a fallback mechanism to the launcher, which reads the Java ID and loads 'eclipse-javaID.ini' with a fallback to 'eclipse.ini', but does not seem reasonable for Oxygen since too late
 +
*** Better to have a clean story: At IBM, the entire build environment changed ... reverting gets us back to a bullet-proof launcher that was tested for 7 milestones ... will work safely with Java 8, for Java 9 people will have to read the N&N or StackOverflow to find out about the right arguments - same as in Neon
 +
* '''AGREEMENT to revert the Launcher to the M6 version'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''July 15, 22 and 29, 2015''' -- no meeting
+
'''May 23, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ
 +
* Dani: '''Apache Batik XXE Vulnerability'''
 +
** Alex: Moving to Batik 1.9 would be good, but there is so much UI breakage that it's not viable for Oxygen
 +
* Martin: '''Bugs discovered during RC test cycle'''
 +
** Surprised that some low-priority issues do get attention ({{bug|517108}}) while others get no response at all ({{bug|517013}}
 +
** Dani: Only interested in severe issues and regressions - send message to platform-releng-dev with severe regressions found
 +
** Dani: Please +1 the Gerrit for {{bug|517108}}
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''July 8, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Alex
+
'''May 16, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars
−
* John: '''Cross-Language Tooling Discussion''' on the eclipse.org-architecture-council and ide-dev mailing lists
+
* Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
−
* decided to cancel the upcoming July meetings
+
** Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
 +
* {{bug|509922}} Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
 +
** Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
 +
** Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
 +
* '''Test failures:''' Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
 +
** Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
 +
** CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
 +
** UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
 +
* {{bug|516114}} Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
 +
** Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
 +
** The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
 +
** That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
 +
** Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
 +
*** The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
 +
** '''AGREEMENT:''' In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
 +
*** Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
 +
*** McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
 +
* Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
 +
* Alex: '''Project Structure'''
 +
** Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
 +
** Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
 +
** In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
 +
** Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
 +
** McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
 +
** Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move forward on this, with a ''Platform Leadership'' group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''July 1, 2015''' -- no meeting
+
'''May 9, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ
 +
* Dani: '''JSR376 Jigsaw''': 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
 +
** From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
 +
** JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
 +
** For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
 +
** JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
 +
* Dani: '''M7/RC0''' - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
 +
** When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
 +
**# Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
 +
**# Section forms layout
 +
* Dani: '''httpcore 4.4.1 -&gt; 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility'''
 +
** Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
 +
** People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
 +
** Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
 +
** Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
 +
** Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
 +
* Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
 +
* Dani: '''Release Review''', does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
 +
** All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
 +
** McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
 +
** Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
 +
** Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''June 24, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
+
'''May 2, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
−
* Dani: '''Java 9''' - <a href="http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/eclipse-java%E2%84%A2-9-support-beta-mars">EAR Feature Patch</a> on the Marketplace NOW
+
* Lars: '''Regex Evaluator Plugin'''
−
** No JARs any more - JRE is doing things internally using "jimage" format; updated search etc to create projects and work against them
+
** Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
−
** If the Jimage filesystem provider isn't backported, one has to run the IDE on Java9 in order to code Java9
+
** Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
−
** Modules are just a list of packages (and can refer to other modules) - no real JSR describing the plan yet - seems like just a replacement of "Profiles" (and JARs)
+
** McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
 +
* Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
 +
* Dani: '''JSR Jigsaw Ballot'''
 +
** Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''June 17, 2015''' - Dani, John, Martin, Alex
+
'''Apr 25, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* John: '''Mars''' Platform in good shape for Mars - EPP respin for Error Reporting
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3a'''
−
* Dani: '''Crashes with Java 8''' - Potentially will add to the online README
+
** Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
−
** Happens in the JIT, with latest Oracle Java 8 (with 8 Cores and very specific circumstances)
+
*** '''AI Alex''' tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
−
** See {{Bug|465693}} - Probably https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8078262
+
*** Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem
−
* Alex: '''XDG Application''' - looks like Docker but a similar idea
+
−
** Environment description of the runtime - helps specifying the line-up of library versions that we test against and use
+
−
** Big part of GNOME / GTK already pushing for it, might make sense to consider alignment
+
−
** GNOME working towards compiling with a really old compiler, such that the physically identical bits can run against a large set of distros
+
−
** See https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps
+
−
** But if you want to try it out please read https://blogs.gnome.org/alexl/2015/06/17/testing-rawhide-apps-using-xdg-app/
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
 
+
'''Apr 18, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
−
'''June 10, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Dani: '''RH and Java9 Jigsaw'''
−
* Dani: 4.5RC4 looking good, no more fixes planned
+
** Very good write-up linked from the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03385.html AC Mailinglist] - see also [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03389.html follow-up]
−
* Dani: Working on Java 9 feature patch
+
** Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
−
* Alex: PC discussing a change in the release train
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3 Respin'''
−
** Current common ground seems to be a request for more release points, and projects could decide whether they do features or maintenance
+
** Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
−
** From Platform point of view, stability is key. Some key contributors not interested doing
+
* Lars: '''[https://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/glance#group-details Glance] Migration''' to e4 and/or Platform
−
** Martin: How to also cater to contributors who want their contributions released soon ?
+
** e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
−
*** Martin Idea: With Tycho, building the Platform is easier so ask contributors build themselves
+
* Lars
−
*** Or, open up a new "experimental" stream ?
+
** JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache
−
*** Dani Idea: Market milestone builds differently, as "fully consumable" would serve the same purpose
+
−
* Martin: Tested eclipse-installer (Oomph), looking really really good now
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''June 3, 2015''' - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''Apr 11, 2017''' - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani
−
* Dani: '''Mars Endgame'''
+
* Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
−
* Dani: Please vote for release review
+
** There will be a special drop for Java 9 in July, but it has not yet been decided whether it will be a release where users automatically get the update, or a special p2 repository or Marketplace entry where the update can be done on demand.
 +
** Issues with Neon.3. A respin might be necessary. For details see https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/msg02741.html.
 +
* Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 20, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
'''Apr 04, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* Dani: '''Security Update''' - Platform work done, Orbit updated, reached out to Wayne and other affected projects.
+
* Martin: {{bug|514257}} and [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev/msg14316.html cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue]
−
* Dani: '''RC2 Build''' - too many bugs assigned, Lars on Vacation, Dani will fill in
+
** Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
−
* McQ: '''Too Many Platforms Built?''' - Who's really hurt by "too many builds" ?
+
** Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
−
** Will meet with Mike & Foundation tomorrow, Alex is also interested (Dani to check).
+
** Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
 +
*** Commons Logging is not a Singleton
 +
** Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
 +
* Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
 +
* Dani: '''PPC''' - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 13, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Martin
+
'''Mar 28, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
−
* John, Dani - Mars Endgame looking good
+
* Replacement for Sergey
−
* Alex - {{bug|465874}} Lucene 5 looking good, almost done - Ready to commit as soon as CQs are in and Mars+1 is open
+
** let's wait and see how things go
−
* JDT for Java 9 - will need a wider discussion with EMO on make it easier to publish the work, e.g. in normal builds
+
** next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
 +
* Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
 +
** all agree
 +
** McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
 +
* Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
 +
* Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 6, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
'''Mar 21, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* Dani: '''Java 9 timing''' - slight delay
+
* Dani: '''Dirk Fauth''' [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02891.html Requests on eclipse-pmc]
−
* Dani: RC1 preps
+
** Alex agrees with Dani
−
** 2-day test pass went fine - 2 severe issues found, will be addressed
+
** Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
−
** Request to watch PMC mailing list for API exceptions and defect approvals
+
** Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
−
* John: '''PC Discussion on Release Cycles'''
+
* Dani: '''Szymon Ptasiewicz'''
−
** Multiple releases per year PLUS maintenance streams seems like overkill
+
−
** Consider an approach like Orion that just moves constantly forward
+
−
** Especially for the Platform, being rock solid is most important. Still to attract new contributors we need to allow more frequent "feature updates".
+
−
*** A model where both "stable/maintenance" _and_ "features" are contributed to the train might be too much work/overhead.
+
−
*** Consider a model like Ubuntu, ... with some release numbers being "stable/LTS base" and others being "in-between feature releases" ?
+
−
*** Consider a model like LTS for maintenance fixes / aside mainstream just moving forward ?
+
−
 
+
−
 
+
−
'''April 15, 2015''' - Dani, John, McQ, Alex, Martin
+
−
* Dani: '''Java 1.7 Changes'''
+
−
** Some bundles have been moved to a 1.7 BREE by new committers, even after API freeze
+
−
** Rule has always been "we move up when there's a reason to move up". We won't move up without reason.
+
−
*** Dani: Moving the BREE may even cause API changes, so should only be done when incrementing the minor version (5% risk)
+
−
*** Alex: Such updates allow staying current and not get to "rewrite is needed" state (thus needed) but has to happen before M6 (API freeze)
+
−
** Alex suggest not accepting additional changes, but not reverting either (to avoid churn)
+
−
* Dani: '''Batik 1.6 update'''
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''April 8, 2015''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, John, McQ
+
'''Mar 14, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* Dani: '''Batik''' - Platform is good, Train may need to update, perhaps updating one bundle only would suffice. John will follow up.
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 readiness''' - see [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev cross-project-issues-dev]
−
* Alex: '''SWT for GTK 3 News'''
+
** Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
−
** GTK port finally decoupled from X11 - it renders on Wayland now, can switch the renderer to a pure HTML one
+
*** Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
−
** This opens up opportunities (but depends on hosts that have GTK).
+
** Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the [[Java 9 Readiness]] wiki can show violations
−
 
+
*** Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
 +
*** Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
 +
** Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
 +
** All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
 +
*** This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
 +
** Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
 +
* Dani: '''JUnit 5''' considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
 +
** Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
 +
* Dani: '''2 Platform Issues in M6'''
 +
** platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
 +
** major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
 +
*** In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
 +
*** In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
 +
* Alex: '''Generic Editor and Testing'''
 +
** Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
 +
** Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
 +
** Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
 +
** In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''April 1, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani (Regrets: John travelling)
+
'''Mar 7, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars
−
* Alex: '''GTK 3.16''' seeing issues again - fixed some crashes, but scrolling is still entirely broken
+
* Dani: '''4.6.3 Updates''' - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
−
** SWT uses a number of things that GTK declares as "implementation detail"
+
* Dani: '''4.7M7 Update''' - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
−
* PMC approval on piggyback CQ's (AC question forwarded by John)
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 / Planning Council Update''' - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
−
** Dani sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02332.html our position] to John in order to update the AC
+
** See the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/ eclipse.org-planning-council archives]
 +
* Lars: '''Platform.Resources Leadership''' after Sergey Leaving
 +
** Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
 +
** Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
 +
** Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
 +
** Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
 +
** Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''March 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''Feb 28, 2017''' - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ
−
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - Bigger this year due to LocationTech (750 attendees)
+
* Alex: '''Short update on Neon.3'''
−
** Mark Reinhold keynote and "after-session" on Java 9
+
** 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
−
** Much interest in Orion JS tooling / editor, also on desktop
+
** PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
−
** Public face of Eclipse Platform at the conference was much more diverse than in the past (Lars Vogel, Max Anderson, Google ...)
+
* Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
−
* Dani: {{bug|458730}} '''Mars Plan Update'''
+
* Martin: '''RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing'''
−
* Dani: '''e4 project leadership''' approved by EMO
+
** Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
−
* Dani: Szymon Brandys resigned as Platform/Resources co-lead. Need to +1 on the mailing list
+
** Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
 +
** Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
 +
** '''AI Martin''' will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like {{bug|505826}} resolved ideally
 +
*** See https://github.com/moberhuber/eclipse.platform.rcptt-tests
 +
*** And https://github.com/eclipse-testing/eclipse-platform
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
 
+
'''Feb 21, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey
−
'''March 11, 2015 - no meeting (EclipseCon)'''
+
* Lars: {{Bug|512273}} Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and {{Bug|512319}} allow rebase
 +
** '''Agreement''' to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
 +
** Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
 +
** '''AI Lars''' follow up on the bug
 +
* Martin: '''UI Testing'''
 +
** [http://eclipse.org/rcptt RCPTT] is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
 +
** Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
 +
** When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
 +
** Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
 +
** Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
 +
*** Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
 +
** '''AI Martin''' follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
 +
** '''AI Alex''' share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
 +
** '''AI Lars''' play with the Reddeer API
 +
* Dani: '''Update on PPC''' drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs {{bug|512224}}
 +
** Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm '''AI Alex and Dani''' ask Denis
 +
* Dani: '''Neon.3 RC3''' please keep an eye on builds
 +
* Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
 
+
'''Feb 15, 2017'''
−
'''March 4, 2015''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, John
+
−
* Dani: '''e4 leadership''' - Dani will volunteer to co-lead
+
−
* Dani: '''BREEs''' - documentation about how to pick the EE
+
−
** Recommending the "earliest generally supported JRE that provides the capabilities you need"
+
−
** Would like an URL on the page pointing to the most recent plan (talking to Wayne)
+
−
* John: '''greatfix contest'''
+
−
** Dani: Working well - some very small contributions but some also very large (eg Customize Perspective fixes)
+
−
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - numbers looking good; join Planning Council Breakfast as delegate for Dani
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''February 25, 2015''' - Dani, Martin McQ
+
'''Feb 8, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
−
* No topics
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|509412}}''' - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
 +
** Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
 +
** Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
 +
** Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
 +
** Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
 +
* Dani: '''Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform'''
 +
** Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
 +
** Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
 +
* Dani: '''Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server'''
 +
** Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
 +
* Dani: '''Scenarios for UI Testing'''
 +
** Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
 +
* Dani: '''Sign Up for Security Rep'''
 +
** See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/tools-pmc/msg03927.html Wayne's message to PMCs] requesting PMC attendance
 +
** John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
 +
** Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
 +
** '''RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up''' since already following security issues
 +
* Dani+Alex: '''libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC'''
 +
** Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
 +
** Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
 +
** Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
 +
** Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
 +
** Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
 +
** If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
 +
** '''AI Dani+McQ''' find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
 +
* Alex: '''Update on Reddeer Testing Framework'''
 +
** A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
 +
** Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
 +
** Martin has been looking at [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT] which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
 +
** (call had to be closed at this point)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''February 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
<strike>Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled</strike>
−
* Alex: '''Building Native Launchers'''
+
−
** Current way of building is kinda unpredictable - even if getting some agreement on versions to use, results are kinda unpredictable
+
−
** Pushing towards Hudson RHEL builders at least at the EF to get more transparency and automation - attempt to mimic the infrastructure at IBM
+
−
** Looking at 3 primary architectures (at the EF) for Linux vs. secondary architectures (non-public builders potentially)
+
−
* Dani: Great initiative, but other (non-EF) builders must not be broken
+
−
** EF doesn't allow any commercial tools (but currently, e.g. Windows launchers are built with MSVS)
+
−
* Alex is willing to spend time to get Linux builds running; but can't help with other architectures
+
−
** Martin: great approach - for Windows, using a cross-compiler on Linux might be interesting (after Linux native works)
+
−
* Alex: This is just phase one - getting rid of the binaries in git repos might be phase 2 (since the checked-in binaries easily cause inconsistencies between Java and Native side)
+
−
** Martin: Checked-in binaries help consumers and contributors who just want to make a Java change
+
−
** Dani: Checked-in binaries are also used for comparing build results for expected vs accidental changes
+
−
 
+
−
* Alex: '''{{bug|459399}} - Policy for recommended minimum execution environments for bundles'''
+
−
** Dani: It works today
+
−
*** To run Eclipse, Java 8 or Java 9 can be used (minimum BREE has no impact)
+
−
*** To modify the source, a new JRE can be used but then the Execution Environment Descriptions need to be installed
+
−
** Policy as discussed in the past: Each project can increase the BREE if there is a real need (such as generifying) and no upstream clients are broken
+
−
*** But don't change the BREE without justification -- changing the BREE always has some effect, such as new warnings that would need to be addressed
+
−
*** Suggested BREE for new bundles has already been changed by Lars
+
−
* Alex: Even for bundles in "maintenance mode", old BREE causes issues for people who build from source (who have to change compilers etc)
+
−
* No conclusion so far (Alex and Dani disagree)
+
−
 
+
−
* Dani: '''e4 leadership'''
+
−
** Mature bits being moved to Eclipse - e4 remaining as an incubator to keep alive for experiments with low entry barrier
+
−
 
+
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''February 11, 2015''' - Dani, Alex
 
−
* no topics
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''Jan 24, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''New Jetty Version''' - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
 +
* Dani: '''javax.xml''' - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
 +
** Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
 +
* Alex: '''[http://jboss-reddeer.github.io/reddeer/ Reddeer Testing Framework]'''
 +
** JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
 +
** Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
 +
*** Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
 +
*** API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
 +
** Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
 +
*** Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
 +
*** No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
 +
** Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT], it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
 +
** Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
 +
*** Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
 +
** Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
 +
** Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --&gt; Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
 +
*** Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
 +
*** '''AI Alex''' to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' to try installing Jubula until next week
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.
  
−
'''February 4, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
<hr>
−
* Alex: With GTK-3.15.[345] , Eclipse is entirely unusable
+
'''Jan 17, 2017''' - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ
−
** Alex has some dirty workarounds to make it start, but still many issues like trees not painted, ...
+
* Sergey: '''Merging platform.resources with platform.ui'''
−
** Crash on startup identified to be GTK bug. Fix to be released in 3.15.6 https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=edec64cda3d4518b4e87d5ea5d287d4570ba9933
+
** Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
−
* Dani: Working on Solaris 64-bit
+
*** Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
−
 
+
** Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
−
<hr/>
+
** Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
−
 
+
** Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
−
'''January 28, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, John
+
*** McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
−
* Dani: Switch Mac OS X 10.9 with 10.10 in Mars target environments
+
** Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
−
** No objections
+
** Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even {{bug|509412}} was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
−
* Alex: Looking for any Eclipse related activity @Fosdem
+
** Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
−
<hr/>
+
** McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
−
 
+
* Lars: '''Removing javax.xml'''
−
'''January 21, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
** Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
−
* Alex: '''Process for allowing non-committers extended bugzilla privileges (for bug triage)?'''
+
** Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
−
** Dani: Yes a process exists. Send bugzilla username to Dani.
+
** Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
−
* Alex: '''New resource for helping with SWT'''
+
** McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
−
* Dani: '''Platform/UI co-lead'''
+
** Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
−
* Dani: Solaris: Java 8 will only support 64 bits on both Intel and SPARC --&gt; IBM SWT Team considering to invest in getting patches in for 64-bit Solaris
+
**'''AI Lars''' send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
−
 
+
* Dani: '''Project Updates'''
−
<hr/>
+
** Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
−
'''January 14, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
+
* McQ: '''UI Testing and Jubula'''
−
* Dani: Update on Platform/UI Leadership: Daniel Rolka left IBM and for now has no time to contribute. He stepped down as co-lead and nominated Lars Vogel
+
−
* Dani: Solaris x86 64-bit support - patches exist, but no machine available. No luck to get one from Oracle or via Eclipse Foundation. We will not support Solaris x86 64-bit unless someone makes a machine available
+
−
<hr/>
+
  
−
'''January 7, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 
−
* Dani: '''Platform/UI Leadership'''
 
−
* John: '''Git security issue''' - pick up a patch for Jgit in the packages before SR2? - Mostly an EPP
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''Jan 10, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck
 +
* Dani: '''Platform Bits on Maven Central''' - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
 +
* Dani: '''Board Committer Rep Elections''' opening
 +
* Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
 +
* Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
 +
* Lars: '''Equinox move to Platform''' - no updates - '''AI Dani''' talk to Tom again
 +
* McQ / AlexS: '''Jubula'''
 +
** In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
 +
** Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
 +
** Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
 +
** AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
 +
*** For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
 +
*** Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
 +
*** UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
 +
*** Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
 +
*** Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
 +
*** Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure ('''AI AlexS to check''')
 +
*** Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
 +
**** Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' send slides
 +
*** '''AI Dani + Lars''' propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]

Revision as of 11:36, 17 April 2018

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

April 17, 2018 - Dani, Alex, McQ

  • On Java 11...
    • We are actually shipping the javax annotation support
    • Java 11 is working in 4.8, but isn't in 4.7.x
      • Tom Watson is investigating why it is not working 4.7.x

April 10, 2018 - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Discussed bug 533390: Eclipse does not launch with Java 11

April 3, 2018 - Tom, Dani, Mcq, Lars

  • 4.7.3a update
    • Delivered RC2 on Saturday, so we could fix some badness in handling Java 10 "var" support (tl;dr: rename appeared to allow you to affect "var" as if it were a type (but would not have modified the code))
    • Currently think we're done
  • Naming milestones
    • As previously discussed, we will contribute the most recent I-build to the release train for the 3-week "M1".
    • We will call our first milestone (at the 6-week point) M2 so that it aligns with the release train naming.

March 27, 2018 - Tom, Dani, Mcq, Lars, Alex

  • Java packages for configured Java in workspace
    • Equinox no longer provides hard-coded information about execution environments. In the past this information was used at runtime for describing the running execution environment within the OSGi Framework. Other usecases outside the Framework started uses the Java profile data from Equinox. Equinox no longer has any need for the hard-coded information so no longer provides it.
    • JDT and PDE have come to depend on the internal resources of the framework to get hard-coded information about execution environments
    • JDT and PDE need to have a common way to figure out the available packages for Java versions >= Java 9
    • See 531642 532773
  • SWT clean-up
    • Lars reviewed the removal of Windows XP. Built binaries locally on Windows.
    • Found a form data issue deleted some code that was still used
    • Tom - Unit tests didn’t catch the issue. Concerning?

--> Update from Lars after the call: Later testing did show that this is a bug already existing in Eclipse. 4.7 and master and not related to the patch

    • Lars did review and test
    • Dani - put all the code in the branch and produce a build and ask windows community to test it
    • Mcq - thinks it is a good idea
    • Dani - create an official build for testing, not out of master with normal builds
    • Lars - what is the risk of putting in master
    • Dani - can do the build right away pre-CQ review approval. Allows for more quick testing.
    • Alex, no need for a branch, can be a developer build we publish. Alex will ask Leo to do this.
  • Jetty version
    • Jetty added non-optional dependencies on service-loader
    • Dani - got reverted, but old versions still caused Gerrit build issue
    • We don’t need the service-loader for our usage of jetty
    • jetty may be making a hard requirement on an implementation of server-loader (Aries spi-fly)
    • Can we move help off jetty? Will be a major undertaking. Should figure out what it would me to do so. Currently no interested contributer has stepped up to do the work to figure out what this would mean.
    • Equinox will still need jetty for the http service implementation. Perhaps things are more simple if this is an Equinox only dependency. Only pull in jetty if the http service implementation is needed and then pull in all of jetty and its dependencies.
    • No current plans or interested contributors for providing our own service-loader implementation.
    • Our build should start resolving the capabilities are requirements which would catch issues like this early in the build.
    • Alex - can we move latest tycho to get the capability/requirements meta-data. No objections? Alex will move forward.

March 20, 2018 - Dani, McQ, Tom, Lars, Alex

  • Dani: The IBM SWT team considers the Windows XP removal too risky and in addition has no capacity to look at that big change. Fine if someone else looks at the removal. The type changes will have to wait after Photon (too risky). Lars will ask Conrad and Alex will also look at the patches.
  • Databinding generification should be done early 4.9, too late for Photon.
  • Dani: Eclipse support for Java 10 will be merged to the official branches starting Wednesday. A Marketplace entry for 4.7.3 will be made available once 4.7.3 is released. The first official release with Java 10 support is 4.7.3a scheduled for April 11.

March 13, 2018 - Dani, McQ, Tom

  • Alex had troubles to join; Lars still in vacation
  • Dani: in the new release process we need to downgrade some milestones to "checkpoints" where we only deliver the bits
    • ACTION ITEM: Dani to start the discussion with the PMC via e-mail and then inform cross-project

March 6, 2018 - McQ, Tom, Alex

  • Short call without any interesting topics

February 27, 2018 - Lars, Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex

  • JDT support for new Java releases
    • McQ: With current change rate and OpenJDK process we can not promise Zero day compatibility but rather release as soon as possible
    • Dani: effort to try convincing Oracle to tell the features a release earlier and get easier access to OpenJDK community
  • Dropping XP support
    • Dani: no objection to drop it, the question is whether to do it for Photon or delay it for next release
    • Mail to be posted to cross project by Dani to gather feedback
    • Alex: 1 week for gathering input on cross-project - AGREED
    • If noone speaks up with reasonable reason to keep support - preapproved by Dani, Lars and Alex
    • To be formally voted after the mail to cross-project
  • Release names
    • Version only, release names are irrelevant from Eclipse TLP side - AGREED
  • Inactive committers pruning
    • Lars: no access to committer emails so sending just to the mailing list
    • Wait 2 months for reply before action
    • McQ: ask foundation to send direct mails on behalf of the project, if foundation is not fine - remove committers directly
    • Alex: only public replies to the mailing list are accepted so people wanting to remain committers at least follow the mailing list
  • Tip of the day -
    • Lars: CQ approved, to be merged today/tomorrow
    • Alex: we should have it part of the build and part of the p2 repo for easy testing
    • Dani: unclear APIs to be removed and to be simplified so we don't end up maintaining useless parts
  • GTK 2 vs. 4
    • Alex: Gtk 4 release aiming at late 2018, it's big change in drawing so conflicts with Gtk 2 badly
    • Alex: Gtk 2 support to be removed in future one of the next 2 releases, whether Sep or Dec to be discussed later in the Photon release train
    • Alex: mail to cross project list around Photon M7 or RC when more information on both Gtk 4 release plans and SWT bugs will be known
    • McQ: what is our statement on supported Gtk version?
    • Alex: Statement should be: Once SWT switches to latest Gtk version as default, support for previous versions goes into deep maintenance mode but will kept until it starts hurting new development and support for the default version at which point to be removed.
    • To be discussed further.


February 20, 2018 - Lars, Dani, McQ, Tom

  • Dani: Update on 4.7 RC3
  • Lars: Can we drop Windows XP support?
    • Lars: Big contribution comes in (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=531097), dropping XP support might be a good motiviation to contribute more also to other people. Removing lots of code including the version checks will also result in a cleaner code base for maintenance and might improve performance.
    • Dani: IBM investigate if they officially drop XP
    • Tom: Do we need support XP with the latest Eclipse version?

--> Pending on the answer of the IBM team, will be discussed in next weeks call

  • Tom: OSGI CQs updated and approved for OSGi Service Platform 7.0 version


February 6, 2018 - Lars, Dani, McQ

  • Lars: Can we mark MInput and MInputPart for deletion (bug 509868)?
    • Dani: Before approving to mark them for deletion, someone has to investigate how much work needs to be done to do it. Both have over 50 references.
      • McQ agrees
  • Dani: Topic on ui-best-practices-working-group list: Replace "..." with an ellipses Unicode character
    • Looks good on Mac and is actually used by Mac OS, but less good on Windows. No info regarding Linux at this time
    • McQ:
      • Mac OS UI guidelines specify to use the ellipses character
      • SWT could do the right thing depending on the platform
  • Lars: view menu, minimize and maximize buttons look bad to him. Would like to replace the view menu with ellipses
    • Dani: Would have to change all three together. View menu is always there and not indicating an overflow
    • McQ: Windows 10 also uses a triangle, but upwards. Current view menu is used and familiar to users for at least more than 10 years.
    • Lars to file a bug report and send the bug number to the PMC
  • McQ: Should discuss in one of the next meetings how JDT can handle the new release cadence for Java
    • Dani: We will see how it goes with Java 11 (18.3)
  • Dani: How will we name the milestones in our new new release scheme?
    • Consensus to start with M1 after each release.
    • Up to planning council to decide the release naming convention. Lars: Would prefer year/month


January 30, 2018 - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • General Updates (Dani)
    • Shipped M5, still working some p2 issues
    • RC1 for Neon.3 next week, may need API changes after the freeze for junit 5 support updates
    • Discussion about the incubation for Java. Ongoing thread in jdt-dev list https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/jdt-dev/msg00964.html. The incubation features will be part of the release specification which implies they need to be implemented to be compliant. Spend time putting them into a release only to pull out later if they don’t finalize. Not clear there are tests added to the TCK. Alex asks if this effects us for Java 10, no not for Java 10. Java 10 only has local type reference, not huge delta of function from Java 9. No incubation in Java 10. But incubation may affect us for Java 11.
  • Info about infrastructure (Alex)
    • Foundation push to move to Jenkins. Releng has moved, uncovered issues with rest API and token exchange … disabled for now for Jenkins. Issue is being worked but only can be fixed once all is moved to Jenkins.
    • Platform HIPP moving to Jenkins tomorrow. Will be some downtime, should be less than an hour or so. May cause several issue. Issues in non-standard jobs with multiple repos etc. For Gerrit verifications should be fine. Let Alex know if there are issues. Alex to send a note when the migration occurs.
    • p2 issue is real. Other issues are pressing (infrastucture/build). Todor has a bug that he should be looking at. Not something happening in the past, but now the capabilities are being resolved. Issues happened with a hand crafted p2.inf file. Hopefully will scope down the p2.inf files. Alex to drive to determine if a respin is needed.
    • Need to monitor the p2 issue, determine how many are broken. Cannot just break 100s of folks without serious consideration. Why not revert? Alex says it is not an option and we should do everything possible to fix.
    • Lars asks about nominating more committers, perhaps that were rejected in the past. Now the Eclipse PMC can overlook the nomination process. Work with existing contributors showing interest and look for opportunities to sponsor them for committership.
  • Tip of the day (Clippy)
    • See Tips Framework
    • Tip of the Day or (Clippy) in coming contribution … looking for integration M6?
    • Lars thinks it is worth it. Dani disables such things by default, and also Lars. Alex find the function interesting. Others are also reviewing the patch.
    • Lars is moving forward with it. If it is very easy to disable and is stable on all platforms then it should be good.
    • Is there a concern about a solution that requires network … it doesn’t appear to be a concern.

January 16, 2018 - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • Native builds at eclipse.org status (Lars):
    • Dani: swt is done for some time already
    • Dani: launchers after M5 is released to prevent breakage
  • GTK launcher changes (Alex):
    • Changes to not rely on X11 atoms but on dbus ready for review
    • Linux only as no other GTK platforms are currently built
  • Equinox CQs (Tom):
    • P2 capabilities patch from Todor and felix.scr update
    • Slow process risking M5
    • Alex: Ping Sharon asking for speedup if possible
  • Updates from Dani:
    • Photon plan update - BREE to be part of the build info
    • End game - Oxygen.3 and M5 - send to the list
    • Running tests against Java 9
  • Java 10 eclipse release (Dani):
    • Oxygen.3a or marketplace feature only - Agreement for oxygen.3a
    • Dani: Local Variable type inference support in a branch
    • Future releases - to be aligned with JVM releases if they prove to release on time
  • BREE updates recomendations
    • Dani: There are reasons to stay on older BREE
    • Alex: ease of getting jvm is the main concern here - if a contributor can't get jvm at that version easily we can't call it supported


Januar 09, 2018 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Updates from Dani:
    • Ian Skerrett is leaving the Eclipse foundation
    • Dani got nominated as committer representive
  • Planning council update
    • Dani: low participation in the last calls
    • Dani will talk with Melanie about it
    • Input required for the planning council for the API and feature freezes for the platform
  • API and feature freeze policy in platform
      • Alex: API and feature freeze in platform should be RC1, except breaking API which should be done in milestone build
      • everyone agrees to Alex suggestion-> agreed
  • Alex: SWT linux currently uses X-Windows specific API, which does not work on Wayland. This will be moved to a DBUS API to open file and open URL
  • Dani: Plan update, biggest change is for the component plan
    • Equinox plan has been added
    • Manual generated BREE list has been dropped from the plan. This list is still automatically generated for every I-Build
  • Launcher and natives build move from IBM to the foundation still in progress
    • (bug 528230) Build FileSystem native component on Eclipse Foundation Infra
    • (bug 528230) Build launcher on Eclipse Foundation Infra

December 12, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • P2 capabilities work breaking Oomph and CBI (bug 528408)
    • Alex: Hidden bug due to adopters using internals.
    • Alex: Code refactoring in p2 pushed to reduce the chance for such breakage.
    • Alex: Oomph fixed its codebase to properly check instances so it works with p2 both prior and after adding capabilities.
    • McQ: What do we do with p2?
    • Alex: Open up the project as much as we can and recruit new committers by being really welcoming to people.

-> Conclusion to not respin M4 due to this bug as it's internal API which projects should not have used.

  • Project plan update
    • Dani: No additional change came from anyone else in the PMC so update of executions environments and adding Java 9 are the only thing due.
  • Next meeting on January 9

December 05, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • Vacation: Dani will be in vacation end of week, so other PMC member need to cover for him if something comes up for M4.
  • Discussion about adding EGit to the SDK? (bug 528004)
    • Dani using a shared installed to manage the EGit plug-in.
    • McQ explains that he thinks EGit is required for a full package but does not feel strong about.
    • Alex: It depends what "SDK" means: SDK to develop plug-ins or SDK to develop Eclipse Platform. We agreed on the former.
    • Dani, Alex are against adding it because it adds maintaince burden and it is unclear which of the optional packages should be installed.
    • Tom, Lars have no strong opinions
    • All agree that managing to install this is an easy task

-> Conclusing to not include EGit in the SDK

  • URL handler registration of Eclipse with the OS
    • SAP plans to contribute a way to register Eclipse to certain URLs. If the user clicks on such a URL, Eclipse would open and be able to show the file. This could be useful for installation of new items in the marketplacen client https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=527579. VSCode allows this already vscode:extension/eamodio.gitlens.
    • Redhat had similar requirements in the past
    • Platform team expects that SAP will also maintain this contribution and take responsibility of it for future releases
    • Dani (after meeting): I think extending the current file based mechanism is OK, but we won't register any (including URL) handler

-> Conclusion to work on this enhancement together with SAP, Alex plans to dedicate some time for discussing the technical solution. SAP should open a new bug and link all related bugs to this top-level bug so that the technical details can be discussed

  • Discussion of building natives
    • moved building of SWT binaries for the 3 primary platforms to the Eclipse Foundation
    • unfortunately after that the Mac went down - fixed now
    • M4 SWT natives will be built on the Eclipse Foundation hardware
    • Launcher still to be moved

November 28, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Alex: Release Change announcement
    • Agreed that we won't mention the ramp-down process.
    • Agreed to add API removal details.
    • Still work in progress.
  • Dani: API Removal process for the new release model
  • Dani: Meeting notes
    • McQ suggested that who joins last has to do it. Dani: not so good since it won't contain the notes for the discussions that happened before.
    • Will do it based on rotation and ability to actually write down the notes.
    • Dani to do it for this call.
  • Dani: Photon plan update
    • Will add Java 9 as supported VM.
    • Anything else? If so, send Dani a note or update bug 527964
  • McQ: Rename Eclipse Project to Eclipse SDK
    • We should only do it when forced by the Foundation and/or Board
    • We would need a plan before starting such an effort.

November 14, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Tom

  • Dani:
    • Presented our new release model to Planning Council. Was welcomed. No objections. But needs discussion what the Release Train will do.
    • RC1 went well, RC2 this week.

November 07, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • For the 3 months releases, we have have a development freeze after RC1 until RC3. After RC3 master will be opened again for development. Development is possible until RC1, so this will result in a freeze period of approx. 2 weeks.
  • For releases versions of the platform we will use semantic versioning as before (4.8, 4.9, 4.10, ..)
  • Eclipse SDK will use versions not branding names unless the release train moves also the same cycle.
  • Splash will continue show the release year and month

October 31, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Martin, Alex,

  • Tom: Bugzilla Landing Page - EMO said both PMCs need to be contacted
    • Bug IDs, Equinox product and components remain in place, only the landing page will be updated
  • Dani: M3 Respin
    • Issue had been found by a team member, but got lost between different teams
    • Resolved and respun very fast, the fix is out now
  • Dani: Release Cycles and Java Alignment
    • Planning Council F2F meeting was at EclipseCon Europe; planning call will be on Thursday
    • Initially, felt like aligning with Java 18.3 was a good idea, but for now the plan is keeping the Oxygen SR rhythm and releasing Oxygen.3a aligned with Java
    • In case the Oracle release should slip, it will be most likely be named 18.4 (whatever month the release ends up in)
  • All: Platform Release Rhythm
    • At ECE, many people were surprised about changing release rhythm but the plan was generally appreciated
    • Should stick to the communicated Photon plan though and change only afterwards
    • Alex suggests promoting a Milestone build from master (properly marked up as such) aligned with the Java 18 release
      • This would promote master as something that can be used
      • After Photon, we will release 4 times from master - there won't be any maintenance builds any more
      • For the release train, there will also be release candidates.

October 24, 2017 - cancelled due to ECE

October 17, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars, Alex

  • Conf.system: Fallback to McQ's number is not a good solution (can't give out the moderator code)
    • Foundation (Denis) is aware of the problem, looking for a solution sooner than later
    • Skype group call, or zoom.us would work for Dani and McQ
  • Dani: bug 526065 Java 9 to Oxygen.1a beta update issue
    • Users who had the Java 9 beta installed and "update" to Oxygen.1a are broken
    • McQ: Updating from "beta" to "final" is not necessarily supposed to be working (Lars disagrees)
    • Not yet sure what's causing the issue .. p2 bug, or different groupID for Java9beta
    • Fix the issue if it looks like a real bug or easy to fix ... otherwise just post a message, preferredly on the Marketplace client (Dani: that part is done already)
  • Lars: Release Cycle Discussion
    • McQ still in favor of making every milestone a release
      • Alex thinks we're not there yet in terms of releng, there's still too many manual steps. Would prefer slower cadence (eg 3 months) until more automation is there (updating pom.xml, version mgmt, ...)
      • With 4 releases per year (like today) but no more maintenance branches/backports, there's potentially less work than today
      • Try starting with a release every 2nd milestone; fix automation; then strive for releasing every milestone.
      • Dani thinks the model shouldn't change in the middle of Photon; look for feedback then move to the new model next year
    • McQ: If we switch to the new model now (Oxygen.2), what do we lose?
      • Martin: Any bigger feature that would need to move into a branch? - Dani: Advanced Source Lookup
      • Dani: Also our rules about "no new features" and "PMC Approval" would need to change
      • Continue discussion in 2 weeks (skip next week due to EclipseCon)

October 10, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Oxygen.1a respin
    • Primary reason for respin was, that people who have existing XText installed would be broken when updating the Platform
    • Opportunity to piggy-back JDT critical fixes was welcome
  • Dani: Equinox Move - Review passed without objections, working on implementation now
    • Expecting less trouble than with the Platform and JDT merges recently
    • Foundation want to keep Equinox as a brand, therefore will be a subproject (beside Platform, JDT, PDE)
    • So to increase the committer base, the fast track option will now apply; also, more alignment in terms of PMC.
    • Confirmed again that we will ask Tom to join our PMC. Approval can be found in this thread.
  • Dani: Planning Council - Rolling Releases Update
    • Should remove some of the work maintaining 2 streams - simply release from master regularly
    • In the past, API breakage (migration guide) was allowed only once per year - how to deal with this moving forward
    • Handle with semantic versioning; how to give adopters sufficient time to adjust
    • There's usually 2 camps for every topic being discussed ... though practically, Platform sets the pace
    • Release Naming - New Name every quarter? Versioning scheme? (like 2017.4 or 17.04)
    • How to simplify processes (also in terms of IP), can the Foundation scale up? Perhaps not more work, but more deadlines
      • In terms of the Release Review, only the N&N and the Migration Guide are relevant; need to satisfy small and big consumers
  • Martin: Reddeer Contribution
    • When we last discussed this, it was an important criterion that any contributor can run the tests easily
    • Alex: Looks good, essentially boils down to running "mvn clean verify" in the PDE repo (or right-click > Run as Reddeer from the IDE) - AI Alex will have a video sent to the PMC list
  • Alex: API Removal in Context of Rolling Releases
    • Which Rules to apply for allowing removal of API; Allow removal in any release?
      • McQ: The real question is, how long it takes consumers to adopt to removal
      • Dani: Is more conservative regarding deletion - the value removing something is often smaller than the ripple it causes
      • McQ: If there is code in our codebase that significantly slows us down, it should be remove even if API
    • Martin: With more releases, there's less push to upgrade ; but will consumers know they are broken? - Semantic versioning should address that, but who really uses upper version ranges ... they have caused more pain than benefit in the past
    • Dani: In the past, with our 3-year deprecation plan, Major versions have not been updated even on announced removals...
    • McQ: If we are earnest about faster velocity, we have to fully adopt semantic versioning practices. If we as producers have done what we could, our job is done - consumers who don't use upper version ranges are on their own

October 3, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin

  • Conf system woes - Dani couldn't dial in, Denis restarted the bridge leaving Martin and Alex in a Zombie bridge
    • ACTION McQ will send out conf.details using IBM's bridge
  • bug 520720 Mickael's question on Performance improvement
    • Dani: There is already an asynchronous RequestLayout API for clients, and APIs already suggest clients use the async one
      • Therefore, changing the synchronous API to work asynchronously doesn't look right.
    • Alex: We seem to be mixing two aspects here -- agree regarding RequestLayout concerns, but why should the ProgressMonitor one be a problem?
      • Dani: Agree that the ProgressMonitor approach makes sense, but a very careful review is needed - existing code already subclasses ProgressMonitor, need to make sure that expected methods are still called
      • ACTION Dani will do a careful review of the ProgressMonitor part and deny the generic RequestLayout part
  • Dani: Equinox Restructuring request for the move is in, will work with Tom and Foundation forward
  • Dani: Oxygen.1a - RC2 is in for JUnit5 and Java9
    • Respin of Oxygen.1 for bug 520176 Mac 10.13 High Sierra problem? - Not currently planned, there will be 1a instead
    • A feature patch is another option, providing patched SWT; and, there's the workarounds
  • Dani: Rolling Release - 2 topics: rolling release, and alignment with Java Update Releases
    • Some projects on the train have alignment goals with other projects outside Java; will discuss again in the Planning Council
  • Alex: bug 522733 webkit crash - A workaround is available, in contact with webkit devs for a complete fix to keep Photon usable
    • Workaround would introduce a small memory leak, but only on the first instance of webkit created

September 26, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin

  • bug 520176 MacOSX 10.13 (High Sierra) Menus Disabled
    • Only non-English Locales are affected
    • For 4.7.1a and Photon, a fix is in
    • Foundation Press Release (Newsletter) is out with information how to work around
    • Tweets are around as well -- keep spreading the message
  • Equinox Move Review - progressing
  • Alex: bug 522733 GTK Crash on Close preventing IDE Restart - can it go into 4.7.1a ?
    • Seen with Fedora 27 (Webkitgtk 2.18)
    • Foundation wanted to keep Java9 stuff separate, so pushing it there might not even help
    • The issue is serious (hard crash preventing restart of the IDE), though fortunately not many people have that particular webkitgtk version yet
    • Investigate details and possible workarounds, then consider our options -- maybe a Foundation Newsletter similar to the OSX 10.13 issue

September 19, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Async APIs request from the eclipse-pmc list (not discussed today)
  • Lars: Java 6-month release cycles
    • Alex likes the 6 month idea - less backporting
    • McQ would ideally like full releases every 3 months (except not releasing anything unfinished)
    • Dani: If Java really delivers every 6 months (will they?), Eclipse could consider rolling releases every milestone. There is a doc from the Planning Council (Mélanie Bats) in that regard.
    • Dani: Support for the public JDKs will be limited to the current release only (6mo)
    • Risk: Oracle Java may be working on big features "in the background", if there is very little time adopting new features (current license doesn't allow releasing stuff built on Beta's) it's hard for Eclipse to keep up
    • Lars: Some teams already moving to Kotlin...
    • Dani: More discusssions planned at ECE, AC etc
    • AGREEMENT to wait for now for (a) the Planning Council announcement and (b) how Java will actually implement and live up to their plans. Work towards faster release cycles (that's a good message to the consumers anyways).
    • Will need to work on details. If there's more releases, and each one needs a review, it's more work on release records and reviews. Already on a good path here, paperwork reduced to a matter of an hour.
  • Dani: Java 9 (Oxygen.1a) round the door. Plan is a full release.
  • McQ: bug 520176 MacOS 10.13 menubar issue people at Apple are also looking at it. Biggest problem is that it's not 100% reproducible. Might end up with some System Properties to be set to resolve the problem.

September 12, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Dani

  • Dani asked Alex to look into bug 517063 with high prio. We need this for M2.
  • Dani: sub-project merge
    • McQ and Lars approved my message regarding sub-project. Will send out the note today.
    • Still an issue with IP log not being merged
    • Release engineers can no longer restart the HIPPs
  • Started to discuss Advise for performance enhancement making API methods behave async
    • We need more time to verify the fix and look at the patch. Will discuss and decide next week.

September 5, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Martin

  • Alex: bug 521639 Mac Signing Issues for Oxygen.1
    • 3 requests out of 5 failing, don't know yet why - webmasters assume hardware issues, trying to move to a different machine
    • RC4:
      • Security fix in p2 (bug 518031)
      • Changes in Releng scripts to run tests on different Mac machine

August 29, 2017 - McQ, Dani, Martin

  • All: Conference System Woes - 3 tries for McQ (race conditions?), 2 tries for Martin (silence first), 10 tries for Dani
  • Dani: Subproject Merge done after some hiccups, no complaints since Fri
    • Subprojects are now "archived" with a comment that they got merged into the parent project
    • AI Dani planning to send another notification to mailing lists:
      • former PLs to become Repo Maintainers responsible for signoff and planning
      • Bugzilla remaining the same
      • Some former subproject leads already stepped up as combined project co-leads (Lars, Lakshmi, Sarika)
    • McQ: Move forward towards the new structure, but there's also need to push for responsibility among the subcomponents (finding go-to persons...)
  • Dani: StyledText improvement request on the ML (Pluggable selection model)
    • point to the e4 incubator for experiments, encourage innovation though might be quite hard and pervasive
  • RC3 looking good (except for build issues on the Foundation side, no I-Build since Aug.22 - Mac DMG is at risk for RC3)
  • Dani away next week, please watch the list for approvals towards RC4 next week

August 22, 2017 - Alex, Dani, Martin

  • All: Conference System Woes - Dani had 7 minutes trouble dialing in; Alex was kicked out
  • Dani: Plan - AI Martin review
    • Target Platform reduced - removed too much? - and Subproject plans. Rest is copy-and-paste.
  • Dani: Subproject Merge - Everything approved, waiting for implementation by EMO.
  • Dani: RC2 this week - Still many Platform/UI bugs, Dani will make a pass moving out since Lars is on vacation
  • Martin: feature/bundle version issues
    • Dani: Checking versions is quite time consuming, there's no tooling solution for the workspace right now (but there are reports).
    • For branding bundles and features, rules are different than for others - Dani currently doing those, since few people have access
    • Currently we're looking good, but automation would be better than manual nagging

August 15, 2017 - Alex, Dani

  • Dani: subproject merge initiated - waiting for webmasters
  • Dani: Provided Photon (4.8) release record and plan - please provide comments
  • Alex and Dani discussed feature/bundle version issues - next builds should be better

August 8, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani

  • Eclipse Asterisk system is not working reliably (again). It took Dani 6 minutes until he could dial in (using the Swiss number - US number failed repeatedly). McQ can't dial in until 10 min later.
  • Dani: starting the planning record for Photon to announce participation in M1
    • Toplevel items: JUnit5, Java9. Subplans on the Wiki.
  • Dani: subproject merge - wanted to wait for M1, but should be done this week
  • Alex: ppc64be - Sravan is waiting on final decision whether it will be removed in Photon
    • Dani: PMC decision was settled, so removed from Eclipse plan - IBM might still continue building it for internal use

August 1, 2017 - no call

July 25, 2017 - Alex, Lars, Dani

  • project merge got go, Dani to implement it with webmaster and then send out the announcement this or next week. E-mail will also mention that existing project leads can become co-leads on Eclipse Platform
  • Discussion if CVS should be removed from the SDK build, Alex +1, Lars +1, Dani +1
  • Discussion if the remaining 2.0 compatibility layer can be removed, Dani: OK to remove but other plug-ins might still have dependencies to it, must the also updated, as well as the documentation

July 18, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • project merge review awaiting go from Wayne - Dani pinged again in the bug report
  • Dani will kick off planning for Photon a bit earlier since he will be in Bangalore the next 12 days. Platform UI already started.
  • M1 on August 11

July 11, 2017 - no meeting

July 4, 2017 - no meeting

June 27, 2017 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Equinox Merge to the Eclipse TLP
    • Keep Equinox as a separate Project, to allow independent Equinox releases without Platform (and keep Bugzilla simple)
    • The only argument for stronger integration would be getting more committers, but there is no strong need and we have the FastTrack process in place for that
  • Eclipse Merge of Component (Sub)Projects into Platform
    • Just 4 Projects: Platform, Equinox, JDT, PDE (plus the incubators for e4 and JDT)
    • Former (Sub)Project Leads to become "Component Leads", "Technology Owners" or "Repository Owners"
      • Repository Ownership is appealing as the structure is very clear (+1 Dani,Alex,McQ)
    • Platform Lead initially Dani, more Co-Leads could step up if they want
      • Main work is helping component leads if they can't come to a consensus - usually less work than PMC duties
  • Dani: JSR 376 Ballot
    • Public review reconsideration ballot got approved by all except Red Hat who abstained
    • Much progress in the past weeks, consensus except RH abstained
    • Looks like the OOBE of Java9 would tolerate reflection, currently looks like on track for a September Release
  • Vacations many people will be off next week, especially in the U.S.
    • PMC call will be skipped next week

June 20, 2017 - MQ, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Attracting new contributors discussions - code cleanup and deletion of old paths needed
    • Alex: Big issue to get people working on codebase and considering many now irrelevant paths in the codebase
    • Dani: Cleanups should be done by the one starting them through the whole SDK
    • Lars: Not feasible as some projects are slower pace moving and the change might require more effort than one can or is willing to spend in his free time
    • Alex: Great opportunity to have new people joining by doing simple tasks and grow them into full committers
    • McQ: We have to come up with list of items we would like to get cleaned and properly follow our deprecation policy even if the migration guide for Photon get really big with things we schedule for removal in the future.
  • Dani: Sub-projects merge
    • Name of the new project - McQ: Everyone refers to it as Platform so natural choice it is
    • JDT, PDE, Platform (subprojects) to become single project
    • Person responsible for some code area in the merged project - to be further dicussed
  • Dani: Dropping Xulrunner support - PMC to approve it in the bug

Juni 13, 2017 - MQ, Dani, Lars

  • Dani: Release review for 4.7 was successful
  • Dani: Rebuild for 4.7RCa required due to new EMF version and a fix for a critical bug which resulted in duplicated menu entries
  • Merge of the sub-projects
    • Planned for M1, desired to be coordinated with the move of Equinox to Platform
    • We prefer to keep the project pages and wikis so that all the information is kept
    • Preferable we want to have one committer list for Eclipse platform
    • Dani to check with foundation how the merge can be done

May 30, 2017 - Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Dani: Please approve or disapprove the release review
  • Dani: Starting the Debugger doesn't work always
    • Occurs for Lars, but isn't reproducible - one of the top 3 things to fix if steps to reproduce are found
    • Lars: Equinox replaced the DS implementation in 4.7, the issue is probably related
    • Failure is totally random: On a very slow Virtual Machine, it failed almost always (9 failures out of 10); on other machine it works most of the time; even after working fine 3 times, it may fail the 4th time; seems to occur more frequently on older machines than newer ones.
    • Martin: try with a reverse debugger like Chronon ?
      • Should help by just collecting a log; and when the failure occurs, "play back" the log to understand under what condition the race condition occurs; the a reproducible case is available, and the log can also be sent around between different developers for investigation, potentiall also to Apache Felix upstream
  • Dani: Equinox Launcher Issues
    • During M7, a change was made to ignore certain command-line arguments
    • This caused 2 regressions - bug 517013 and bug 516349 MacOSX restart regression
    • Java 9 will probably change the parameters again, see bug 516911 :(
    • It's getting too late to make any more changes to the Launcher. Re-compiling on different hardware has already caused bug 517013, it's possible that more issues (not yet known) might be caused by the rebuild. With Java 9 probably changing again, we don't win much by rebuilding to try and align with something that's not yet released.
      • Option A: Put options into the eclipse.ini -- today it works for both Java 8 and Java 9
      • Option B: Add the "probably proposed" new option to the launcher, will need to rebuild the launcher again
      • Option C: Revert the launcher to what it was before (and well tested) back to M6 - for running with Java 9, the options have to be added manually
    • Users will have to read on a webpage what needs to be done for Java 9 launching; for Eclipse SDK, a single option is needed - some add-on components
      • Additional complexity: Different JVMs need different options (IBM, Oracle...)
      • Martin: bug 517452 Introduce a fallback mechanism to the launcher, which reads the Java ID and loads 'eclipse-javaID.ini' with a fallback to 'eclipse.ini', but does not seem reasonable for Oxygen since too late
      • Better to have a clean story: At IBM, the entire build environment changed ... reverting gets us back to a bullet-proof launcher that was tested for 7 milestones ... will work safely with Java 8, for Java 9 people will have to read the N&N or StackOverflow to find out about the right arguments - same as in Neon
  • AGREEMENT to revert the Launcher to the M6 version

May 23, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: Apache Batik XXE Vulnerability
    • Alex: Moving to Batik 1.9 would be good, but there is so much UI breakage that it's not viable for Oxygen
  • Martin: Bugs discovered during RC test cycle
    • Surprised that some low-priority issues do get attention (bug 517108) while others get no response at all (bug 517013
    • Dani: Only interested in severe issues and regressions - send message to platform-releng-dev with severe regressions found
    • Dani: Please +1 the Gerrit for bug 517108

May 16, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
    • Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
  • bug 509922 Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
    • Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
    • Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
  • Test failures: Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
    • Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
    • CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
    • UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
  • bug 516114 Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
    • Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
    • The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
    • That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
    • Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
      • The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
    • AGREEMENT: In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
      • Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
      • McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
  • Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
  • Alex: Project Structure
    • Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
    • Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
    • In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
    • Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
    • McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
    • Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
    • AGREEMENT to move forward on this, with a Platform Leadership group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.

May 9, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: JSR376 Jigsaw: 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
    • From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
    • JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
    • For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
    • JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
  • Dani: M7/RC0 - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
    • When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
      1. Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
      2. Section forms layout
  • Dani: httpcore 4.4.1 -> 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility
    • Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
    • People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
    • Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
    • Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
    • Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
    • AGREEMENT to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
  • Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
  • Dani: Release Review, does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
    • All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
    • McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
    • Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
    • Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
    • AGREEMENT to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.

May 2, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Lars: Regex Evaluator Plugin
    • Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
    • Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
    • McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
    • AGREEMENT to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
  • Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
  • Dani: JSR Jigsaw Ballot
    • Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard

Apr 25, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Neon.3a
    • Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
      • AI Alex tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
      • Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem

Apr 18, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Dani: RH and Java9 Jigsaw
    • Very good write-up linked from the AC Mailinglist - see also follow-up
    • Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
  • Dani: Neon.3 Respin
    • Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
  • Lars: Glance Migration to e4 and/or Platform
    • e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
  • Lars
    • JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache

Apr 11, 2017 - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
  • Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.

Apr 04, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Martin: bug 514257 and cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue
    • Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
    • Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
    • Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
      • Commons Logging is not a Singleton
    • Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
  • Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
  • Dani: PPC - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week

Mar 28, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Replacement for Sergey
    • let's wait and see how things go
    • next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
  • Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
    • all agree
    • McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
  • Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
  • Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)

Mar 21, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Dirk Fauth Requests on eclipse-pmc
    • Alex agrees with Dani
    • Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
    • Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
  • Dani: Szymon Ptasiewicz

Mar 14, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Java 9 readiness - see cross-project-issues-dev
    • Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
      • Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
    • Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the Java 9 Readiness wiki can show violations
      • Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
      • Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
    • Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
    • All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
      • This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
    • Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
  • Dani: JUnit 5 considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
    • Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
  • Dani: 2 Platform Issues in M6
    • platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
    • major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
      • In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
      • In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
  • Alex: Generic Editor and Testing
    • Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
    • Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
    • Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
    • In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"

Mar 7, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars

  • Dani: 4.6.3 Updates - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
  • Dani: 4.7M7 Update - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
  • Dani: Java 9 / Planning Council Update - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
  • Lars: Platform.Resources Leadership after Sergey Leaving
    • Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
    • Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
    • Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
    • Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
    • Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept

Feb 28, 2017 - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Alex: Short update on Neon.3
    • 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
    • PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
  • Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
  • Martin: RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing

Feb 21, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey

  • Lars: bug 512273 Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and bug 512319 allow rebase
    • Agreement to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
    • Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
    • AI Lars follow up on the bug
  • Martin: UI Testing
    • RCPTT is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
    • Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
    • When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
    • Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
    • Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
      • Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
    • AI Martin follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
    • AI Alex share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
    • AI Lars play with the Reddeer API
  • Dani: Update on PPC drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs bug 512224
    • Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm AI Alex and Dani ask Denis
  • Dani: Neon.3 RC3 please keep an eye on builds
  • Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week

Feb 15, 2017

Feb 8, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: bug 509412 - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
    • Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
    • Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
    • Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
    • Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
  • Dani: Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform
    • Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
    • Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
  • Dani: Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server
    • Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
  • Dani: Scenarios for UI Testing
    • Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
  • Dani: Sign Up for Security Rep
    • See Wayne's message to PMCs requesting PMC attendance
    • John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
    • Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
    • RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up since already following security issues
  • Dani+Alex: libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC
    • Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
    • Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
    • Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
    • Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
    • Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
    • If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
    • AI Dani+McQ find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
  • Alex: Update on Reddeer Testing Framework
    • A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
    • Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
    • Martin has been looking at RCPTT which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
    • (call had to be closed at this point)

Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled

Jan 24, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: New Jetty Version - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
  • Dani: javax.xml - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
    • Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
  • Alex: Reddeer Testing Framework
    • JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
    • Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
      • Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
      • API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
    • Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
      • Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
      • No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
    • Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about RCPTT, it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
    • Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
      • Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
    • Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
    • Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --> Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
      • Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
      • AI Alex to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
      • AI Martin to try installing Jubula until next week
      • AI Martin ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.

Jan 17, 2017 - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ

  • Sergey: Merging platform.resources with platform.ui
    • Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
      • Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
    • Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
    • Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
    • Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
      • McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
    • Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
    • Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even bug 509412 was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
    • Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
    • McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
  • Lars: Removing javax.xml
    • Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
    • Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
    • Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
    • McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
    • Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
    • AI Lars send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
  • Dani: Project Updates
    • Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
  • McQ: UI Testing and Jubula

Jan 10, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck

  • Dani: Platform Bits on Maven Central - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
  • Dani: Board Committer Rep Elections opening
  • Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
  • Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
  • Lars: Equinox move to Platform - no updates - AI Dani talk to Tom again
  • McQ / AlexS: Jubula
    • In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
    • Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
    • Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
    • AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
      • For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
      • Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
      • UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
      • Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
      • Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
      • Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure (AI AlexS to check)
      • Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
        • Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
      • AI AlexS send slides
      • AI Dani + Lars propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
      • AI AlexS check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started

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