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= Documents =
 
= Documents =
−
 
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
  
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= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
−
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 +
'''April 17, 2018''' - Dani, Alex, McQ
 +
* On Java 11...
 +
** We are actually shipping the javax annotation support
 +
** Java 11 is working in 4.8, but isn't in 4.7.x
 +
*** Tom Watson is investigating why it is not working 4.7.x
  
−
'''August 5, 2015''' - McQ, John, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
'''April 10, 2018''' - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex
−
* PC meeting later today (planning calendar, calling SR1/2 "Update 1/2" instead
+
* Discussed {{bug|533390}}: Eclipse does not launch with Java 11
−
** adding another release before Christmas might be a next step - even if Platform contributes identical bits
+
  
−
* Dani: '''[[Eclipse/Mars Retrospective]]'''
+
'''April 3, 2018''' - Tom, Dani, Mcq, Lars
−
** Move more components to Tycho build? (Would still need Ant to test against final build/bits)
+
* 4.7.3a update
−
** Contribution Review Dates: joined by some components but not all
+
** Delivered RC2 on Saturday, so we could fix some badness in handling Java 10 "var" support (tl;dr: rename appeared to allow you to affect "var" as if it were a type (but would not have modified the code))
−
** Error Reporter: Interesting to look at top ten but the sheer number is too big
+
** Currently think we're done
−
*** John - based on Orion experience with similar error reporting :
+
* Naming milestones
−
**** Looking at changes in reported issues is more interesting than looking at reports themselves
+
** As previously discussed, we will contribute the most recent I-build to the release train for the 3-week "M1".
−
**** Reports help getting contributions (But, Dani finds that "just adding a null check" is often not what's desired for Java .. though helpful for Javascript)
+
** We will call our first milestone (at the 6-week point) M2 so that it aligns with the release train naming.
  
−
* Dani: Foundation IP team doesn't require updating copyright notices per contribution any more (since that information is in git anyways)
+
'''March 27, 2018''' - Tom, Dani, Mcq, Lars, Alex
−
** The Project has to agree
+
* Java packages for configured Java in workspace
−
** Some contributors like to have their name in the source -- that's OK, no requirement to remove author information, but no requirement to add either
+
** Equinox no longer provides hard-coded information about execution environments.  In the past this information was used at runtime for describing the running execution environment within the OSGi Framework.  Other usecases outside the Framework started uses the Java profile data from Equinox.  Equinox no longer has any need for the hard-coded information so no longer provides it.
−
** Won't remove existing lists (they never claimed to be complete, since there always was the "...and others" copyright notice
+
** JDT and PDE have come to depend on the internal resources of the framework to get hard-coded information about execution environments
−
** Dani to sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02422.html request for voting]
+
** JDT and PDE need to have a common way to figure out the available packages for Java versions >= Java 9
 +
** See [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=531642 531642] [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=532773 532773]
 +
* SWT clean-up
 +
** Lars reviewed the removal of Windows XP.  Built binaries locally on Windows.
 +
** Found a form data issue deleted some code that was still used
 +
** Tom - Unit tests didn’t catch the issue.  Concerning?
  
−
* Dani: Switching to '''Jetty 9.3.x (which requires JRE 8)'''
+
--> Update from Lars after the call: Later testing did show that this is a bug already existing in Eclipse. 4.7 and master and not related to the patch
−
** JRE 8 from Oracle (and also from IBM) exists for all Reference Platforms
+
−
** Except Solaris, because we only support Solaris 32-bit and the JRE only exists as 64-bit
+
−
** But the Plan for Neon is to have 64-bit Solaris support
+
−
** New Language features in Java 8 are adopted, contributors would like to start using Java 8
+
−
** McQ: In the past, staying on older Java was desired to enable more widespread use ... today, this argument does not seem valid any more, in fact likely more contributions / community is enabled by moving to Java 8
+
−
** Dani: Only concern is some "non reference" Platforms like HP-UX might not have JREs initially; but that's OK as long as the reference platforms are good
+
−
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move to JRE 8 and allow projects to use Java 8 in their code.
+
  
−
* Dani: Looking for a contributor for SWT improvements for GTK3
+
** Lars did review and test
 +
** Dani - put all the code in the branch and produce a build and ask windows community to test it
 +
** Mcq - thinks it is a good idea
 +
** Dani - create an official build for testing, not out of master with normal builds
 +
** Lars - what is the risk of putting in master
 +
** Dani - can do the build right away pre-CQ review approval.  Allows for more quick testing.
 +
** Alex, no need for a branch, can be a developer build we publish.  Alex will ask Leo to do this.
 +
* Jetty version
 +
** Jetty added non-optional dependencies on service-loader
 +
** Dani - got reverted, but old versions still caused Gerrit build issue
 +
** We don’t need the service-loader for our usage of jetty
 +
** jetty may be making a hard requirement on an implementation of server-loader (Aries spi-fly)
 +
** Can we move help off jetty? Will be a major undertaking.  Should figure out what it would me to do so.  Currently no interested contributer has stepped up to do the work to figure out what this would mean.
 +
** Equinox will still need jetty for the http service implementation.  Perhaps things are more simple if this is an Equinox only dependency.  Only pull in jetty if the http service implementation is needed and then pull in all of jetty and its dependencies.
 +
** No current plans or interested contributors for providing our own service-loader implementation.
 +
** Our build should start resolving the capabilities are requirements which would catch issues like this early in the build.
 +
** Alex - can we move latest tycho to get the capability/requirements meta-data.  No objections?  Alex will move forward.
  
−
* Martin: '''libwebkitgtk-3 on Ubuntu 14''' not working ?
+
'''March 20, 2018''' - Dani, McQ, Tom, Lars, Alex
−
** Alex: Using libwebkitgtk-4 which is much more stable, but not implementing the full SWT API
+
* Dani: The IBM SWT team considers the Windows XP removal too risky and in addition has no capacity to look at that big change. Fine if someone else looks at the removal. The type changes will have to wait after Photon (too risky). Lars will ask Conrad and Alex will also look at the patches.
−
** Most distros don't ship libwebkit for gtk-2 any more since it's not supported upstream any more and has many security issues
+
* Databinding generification should be done early 4.9, too late for Photon.
 +
* Dani: Eclipse support for Java 10 will be merged to the official branches starting Wednesday. A Marketplace entry for 4.7.3 will be made available once 4.7.3 is released. The first official release with Java 10 support is 4.7.3a scheduled for April 11.
  
−
* Alex: '''Build SWT at the Foundation'''
+
'''March 13, 2018''' - Dani, McQ, Tom
−
** Work with the Foundation going well, expect to have REL machines deployed at the foundation next month
+
* Alex had troubles to join; Lars still in vacation
 +
* Dani: in the new release process we need to downgrade some milestones to "checkpoints" where we only deliver the bits
 +
** ACTION ITEM: Dani to start the discussion with the PMC via e-mail and then inform cross-project
  
 +
'''March 6, 2018''' - McQ, Tom, Alex
 +
* Short call without any interesting topics
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''February 27, 2018''' - Lars, Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex
 +
* JDT support for new Java releases
 +
** McQ: With current change rate and OpenJDK process we can not promise Zero day compatibility but rather release as soon as possible
 +
** Dani: effort to try convincing Oracle to tell the features a release earlier and get easier access to OpenJDK community
 +
* Dropping XP support
 +
** Dani: no objection to drop it, the question is whether to do it for Photon or delay it for next release
 +
** Mail to be posted to cross project by Dani to gather feedback
 +
** Alex: 1 week for gathering input on cross-project - '''AGREED'''
 +
** If noone speaks up with reasonable reason to keep support - preapproved by Dani, Lars and Alex
 +
** To be formally voted after the mail to cross-project
 +
* Release names
 +
** Version only, release names are irrelevant from Eclipse TLP side - '''AGREED'''
 +
* Inactive committers pruning
 +
** Lars: no access to committer emails so sending just to the mailing list
 +
** Wait 2 months for reply before action
 +
** McQ: ask foundation to send direct mails on behalf of the project, if foundation is not fine - remove committers directly
 +
** Alex: only public replies to the mailing list are accepted so people wanting to remain committers at least follow the mailing list
 +
* Tip of the day -
 +
** Lars: CQ approved, to be merged today/tomorrow
 +
** Alex: we should have it part of the build and part of the p2 repo for easy testing
 +
** Dani: unclear APIs to be removed and to be simplified so we don't end up maintaining useless parts
 +
* GTK 2 vs. 4
 +
** Alex: Gtk 4 release aiming at late 2018, it's big change in drawing so conflicts with Gtk 2 badly
 +
** Alex: Gtk 2 support to be removed in future one of the next 2 releases, whether Sep or Dec to be discussed later in the Photon release train
 +
** Alex: mail to cross project list around Photon M7 or RC when more information on both Gtk 4 release plans and SWT bugs will be known
 +
** McQ: what is our statement on supported Gtk version?
 +
** Alex: Statement should be: Once SWT switches to latest Gtk version as default, support for previous versions goes into deep maintenance mode but will kept until it starts hurting new development and support for the default version at which point to be removed.
 +
** To be discussed further.
  
−
'''July 15, 22 and 29, 2015''' -- no meeting
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''February 20, 2018''' - Lars, Dani, McQ, Tom
  
−
'''July 8, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Alex
+
* Dani: Update on 4.7 RC3
−
* John: '''Cross-Language Tooling Discussion''' on the eclipse.org-architecture-council and ide-dev mailing lists
+
* Lars: Can we drop Windows XP support?
−
* decided to cancel the upcoming July meetings
+
** Lars: Big contribution comes in (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=531097), dropping XP support might be a good motiviation to contribute more also to other people. Removing lots of code including the version checks will also result in a cleaner code base for maintenance and might improve performance.
 +
** Dani: IBM investigate if they officially drop XP
 +
** Tom: Do we need support XP with the latest Eclipse version?
 +
--> Pending on the answer of the IBM team, will be discussed in next weeks call
 +
* Tom: OSGI CQs updated and approved for OSGi Service Platform 7.0 version
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''July 1, 2015''' -- no meeting
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''February 6, 2018''' - Lars, Dani, McQ
−
'''June 24, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
+
* Lars: Can we mark MInput and MInputPart for deletion ({{bug|509868}})?
−
* Dani: '''Java 9''' - <a href="http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/eclipse-java%E2%84%A2-9-support-beta-mars">EAR Feature Patch</a> on the Marketplace NOW
+
** Dani: Before approving to mark them for deletion, someone has to investigate how much work needs to be done to do it. Both have over 50 references.
−
** No JARs any more - JRE is doing things internally using "jimage" format; updated search etc to create projects and work against them
+
*** McQ agrees
−
** If the Jimage filesystem provider isn't backported, one has to run the IDE on Java9 in order to code Java9
+
* Dani: [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ui-best-practices-working-group/msg00743.html Topic on ui-best-practices-working-group list]: Replace "..." with an ellipses Unicode character
−
** Modules are just a list of packages (and can refer to other modules) - no real JSR describing the plan yet - seems like just a replacement of "Profiles" (and JARs)
+
** Looks good on Mac and is actually used by Mac OS, but less good on Windows. No info regarding Linux at this time
 +
** McQ:
 +
*** Mac OS UI guidelines specify to use the ellipses character
 +
*** SWT could do the right thing depending on the platform
 +
* Lars: view menu, minimize and maximize buttons look bad to him. Would like to replace the view menu with ellipses
 +
** Dani: Would have to change all three together. View menu is always there and not indicating an overflow
 +
** McQ: Windows 10 also uses a triangle, but upwards. Current view menu is used and familiar to users for at least more than 10 years.
 +
** Lars to file a bug report and send the bug number to the PMC
 +
* McQ: Should discuss in one of the next meetings how JDT can handle the new release cadence for Java
 +
** Dani: We will see how it goes with Java 11 (18.3)
 +
* Dani: How will we name the milestones in our new new release scheme?
 +
** Consensus to start with M1 after each release.
 +
** Up to planning council to decide the release naming convention. Lars: Would prefer year/month
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''June 17, 2015''' - Dani, John, Martin, Alex
 
−
* John: '''Mars''' Platform in good shape for Mars - EPP respin for Error Reporting
 
−
* Dani: '''Crashes with Java 8''' - Potentially will add to the online README
 
−
** Happens in the JIT, with latest Oracle Java 8 (with 8 Cores and very specific circumstances)
 
−
** See {{Bug|465693}} - Probably https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8078262
 
−
* Alex: '''XDG Application''' - looks like Docker but a similar idea
 
−
** Environment description of the runtime - helps specifying the line-up of library versions that we test against and use
 
−
** Big part of GNOME / GTK already pushing for it, might make sense to consider alignment
 
−
** GNOME working towards compiling with a really old compiler, such that the physically identical bits can run against a large set of distros
 
−
** See https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps
 
−
** But if you want to try it out please read https://blogs.gnome.org/alexl/2015/06/17/testing-rawhide-apps-using-xdg-app/
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''January 30, 2018''' - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom
 +
* General Updates (Dani)
 +
** Shipped M5, still working some p2 issues
 +
** RC1 for Neon.3 next week, may need API changes after the freeze for junit 5 support updates
 +
** Discussion about the incubation for Java.  Ongoing thread in jdt-dev list https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/jdt-dev/msg00964.html.  The incubation features will be part of the release specification which implies they need to be implemented to be compliant.  Spend time putting them into a release only to pull out later if they don’t finalize.  Not clear there are tests added to the TCK.  Alex asks if this effects us for Java 10, no not for Java 10.  Java 10 only has local type reference, not huge delta of function from Java 9.  No incubation in Java 10.  But incubation may affect us for Java 11.
 +
* Info about infrastructure (Alex)
 +
** Foundation push to move to Jenkins.  Releng has moved, uncovered issues with rest API and token exchange … disabled for now for Jenkins.  Issue is being worked but only can be fixed once all is moved to Jenkins.
 +
** Platform HIPP moving to Jenkins tomorrow.  Will be some downtime, should be less than an hour or so.  May cause several issue.  Issues in non-standard jobs with multiple repos etc.  For Gerrit verifications should be fine.  Let Alex know if there are issues.  Alex to send a note when the migration occurs.
 +
** p2 issue is real.  Other issues are pressing (infrastucture/build).  Todor has a bug that he should be looking at.  Not something happening in the past, but now the capabilities are being resolved.  Issues happened with a hand crafted p2.inf file.  Hopefully will scope down the p2.inf files.  Alex to drive to determine if a respin is needed.
 +
** Need to monitor the p2 issue, determine how many are broken.  Cannot just break 100s of folks without serious consideration.  Why not revert?  Alex says it is not an option and we should do everything possible to fix.
 +
** Lars asks about nominating more committers, perhaps that were rejected in the past.  Now the Eclipse PMC can overlook the nomination process.  Work with existing contributors showing interest and look for opportunities to sponsor them for committership.
 +
* Tip of the day (Clippy)
 +
** See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-ui-dev/msg08006.html Tips Framework]
 +
** Tip of the Day or (Clippy) in coming contribution … looking for integration M6?
 +
** Lars thinks it is worth it.  Dani disables such things by default, and also Lars.  Alex find the function interesting.  Others are also reviewing the patch. 
 +
** Lars is moving forward with it.  If it is very easy to disable and is stable on all platforms then it should be good.
 +
** Is there a concern about a solution that requires network … it doesn’t appear to be a concern.
  
−
'''June 10, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
'''January 16, 2018''' - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom
−
* Dani: 4.5RC4 looking good, no more fixes planned
+
* Native builds at eclipse.org status (Lars):
−
* Dani: Working on Java 9 feature patch
+
** Dani: swt is done for some time already
−
* Alex: PC discussing a change in the release train
+
** Dani: launchers after M5 is released to prevent breakage
−
** Current common ground seems to be a request for more release points, and projects could decide whether they do features or maintenance
+
* GTK launcher changes (Alex):
−
** From Platform point of view, stability is key. Some key contributors not interested doing
+
** Changes to not rely on X11 atoms but on dbus ready for review
−
** Martin: How to also cater to contributors who want their contributions released soon ?
+
** Linux only as no other GTK platforms are currently built
−
*** Martin Idea: With Tycho, building the Platform is easier so ask contributors build themselves
+
* Equinox CQs (Tom):
−
*** Or, open up a new "experimental" stream ?
+
** P2 capabilities patch from Todor and felix.scr update
−
*** Dani Idea: Market milestone builds differently, as "fully consumable" would serve the same purpose
+
** Slow process risking M5
−
* Martin: Tested eclipse-installer (Oomph), looking really really good now
+
** Alex: Ping Sharon asking for speedup if possible
 +
* Updates from Dani:
 +
** Photon plan update - BREE to be part of the build info
 +
** End game - Oxygen.3 and M5 - send to the list
 +
** Running tests against Java 9
 +
* Java 10 eclipse release (Dani):
 +
** Oxygen.3a or marketplace feature only - Agreement for oxygen.3a
 +
** Dani: Local Variable type inference support in a branch
 +
** Future releases - to be aligned with JVM releases if they prove to release on time
 +
* BREE updates recomendations
 +
** Dani: There are reasons to stay on older BREE
 +
** Alex: ease of getting jvm is the main concern here - if a contributor can't get jvm at that version easily we can't call it supported
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''June 3, 2015''' - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
 
−
* Dani: '''Mars Endgame'''
 
−
* Dani: Please vote for release review
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''Januar 09, 2018''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
−
'''May 20, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
* Updates from Dani:
−
* Dani: '''Security Update''' - Platform work done, Orbit updated, reached out to Wayne and other affected projects.
+
** Ian Skerrett is leaving the Eclipse foundation
−
* Dani: '''RC2 Build''' - too many bugs assigned, Lars on Vacation, Dani will fill in
+
** Dani got nominated as committer representive
−
* McQ: '''Too Many Platforms Built?''' - Who's really hurt by "too many builds" ?
+
* Planning council update
−
** Will meet with Mike & Foundation tomorrow, Alex is also interested (Dani to check).
+
** Dani: low participation in the last calls
 +
** Dani will talk with Melanie about it
 +
** Input  required for the planning council for the API and feature freezes for the platform
 +
* API and feature freeze policy in platform
 +
*** Alex: API and feature freeze in platform should be RC1, except breaking API which should be done in milestone build
 +
*** everyone agrees to Alex suggestion-> agreed
 +
* Alex: SWT linux currently uses X-Windows specific API, which does not work on Wayland. This will be moved to a DBUS API to open file and open URL
 +
* Dani: Plan update, biggest change is for the component plan
 +
** Equinox plan has been added
 +
** Manual generated BREE list has been dropped from the plan. This list is still automatically generated for every I-Build
 +
* Launcher and natives build move from IBM to the foundation still in progress
 +
** ({{bug|528230}}) Build FileSystem native component on Eclipse Foundation Infra
 +
** ({{bug|528230}}) Build launcher on Eclipse Foundation Infra
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''December 12, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom
−
'''May 13, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Martin
+
* P2 capabilities work breaking Oomph and CBI ({{bug|528408}})
−
* John, Dani - Mars Endgame looking good
+
** Alex: Hidden bug due to adopters using internals.
−
* Alex - {{bug|465874}} Lucene 5 looking good, almost done - Ready to commit as soon as CQs are in and Mars+1 is open
+
** Alex: Code refactoring in p2 pushed to reduce the chance for such breakage.
−
* JDT for Java 9 - will need a wider discussion with EMO on make it easier to publish the work, e.g. in normal builds
+
** Alex: Oomph fixed its codebase to properly check instances so it works with p2 both prior and after adding capabilities.
 +
** McQ: What do we do with p2?
 +
** Alex: Open up the project as much as we can and recruit new committers by being really welcoming to people.
  
−
<hr/>
+
-> Conclusion to not respin M4 due to this bug as it's internal API which projects should not have used.
−
'''May 6, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
−
* Dani: '''Java 9 timing''' - slight delay
+
−
* Dani: RC1 preps
+
−
** 2-day test pass went fine - 2 severe issues found, will be addressed
+
−
** Request to watch PMC mailing list for API exceptions and defect approvals
+
−
* John: '''PC Discussion on Release Cycles'''
+
−
** Multiple releases per year PLUS maintenance streams seems like overkill
+
−
** Consider an approach like Orion that just moves constantly forward
+
−
** Especially for the Platform, being rock solid is most important. Still to attract new contributors we need to allow more frequent "feature updates".
+
−
*** A model where both "stable/maintenance" _and_ "features" are contributed to the train might be too much work/overhead.
+
−
*** Consider a model like Ubuntu, ... with some release numbers being "stable/LTS base" and others being "in-between feature releases" ?
+
−
*** Consider a model like LTS for maintenance fixes / aside mainstream just moving forward ?
+
  
 +
* Project plan update
 +
** Dani: No additional change came from anyone else in the PMC so update of executions environments and adding Java 9 are the only thing due.
 +
* Next meeting on January 9
  
−
'''April 15, 2015''' - Dani, John, McQ, Alex, Martin
+
'''December 05, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom
−
* Dani: '''Java 1.7 Changes'''
+
* Vacation: Dani will be in vacation end of week, so other PMC member need to cover for him if something comes up for M4.
−
** Some bundles have been moved to a 1.7 BREE by new committers, even after API freeze
+
−
** Rule has always been "we move up when there's a reason to move up". We won't move up without reason.
+
−
*** Dani: Moving the BREE may even cause API changes, so should only be done when incrementing the minor version (5% risk)
+
−
*** Alex: Such updates allow staying current and not get to "rewrite is needed" state (thus needed) but has to happen before M6 (API freeze)
+
−
** Alex suggest not accepting additional changes, but not reverting either (to avoid churn)
+
−
* Dani: '''Batik 1.6 update'''
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
* Discussion about adding EGit to the SDK? ({{bug|528004}})
−
'''April 8, 2015''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, John, McQ
+
** Dani using a shared installed to manage the EGit plug-in.
−
* Dani: '''Batik''' - Platform is good, Train may need to update, perhaps updating one bundle only would suffice. John will follow up.
+
** McQ explains that he thinks EGit is required for a full package but does not feel strong about.
−
* Alex: '''SWT for GTK 3 News'''
+
** Alex: It depends what "SDK" means: SDK to develop plug-ins or SDK to develop Eclipse Platform. We agreed on the former.
−
** GTK port finally decoupled from X11 - it renders on Wayland now, can switch the renderer to a pure HTML one
+
** Dani, Alex are against adding it because it adds maintaince burden and it is unclear which of the optional packages should be installed.
−
** This opens up opportunities (but depends on hosts that have GTK).
+
** Tom, Lars have no strong opinions
 +
** All agree that managing to install this is an easy task
  
 +
-> Conclusing to not include EGit in the SDK
  
−
<hr/>
+
* Impact of cross discussion from David about API changes in which David implied that the platform cannot do API breakages
−
'''April 1, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani (Regrets: John travelling)
+
** Dani clarified with David on the cross-mailing list, no changes for us for the process, as we only remove announced. See https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev/msg15032.html
−
* Alex: '''GTK 3.16''' seeing issues again - fixed some crashes, but scrolling is still entirely broken
+
−
** SWT uses a number of things that GTK declares as "implementation detail"
+
−
* PMC approval on piggyback CQ's (AC question forwarded by John)
+
−
** Dani sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02332.html our position] to John in order to update the AC
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
* URL handler registration of Eclipse with the OS
−
'''March 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
+
** SAP plans to contribute a way to register Eclipse to certain URLs. If the user clicks on such a URL, Eclipse would open and be able to show the file. This could be useful for installation of new items in the marketplacen client https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=527579. VSCode allows this already vscode:extension/eamodio.gitlens.
−
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - Bigger this year due to LocationTech (750 attendees)
+
** Redhat had similar requirements in the past
−
** Mark Reinhold keynote and "after-session" on Java 9
+
** Platform team expects that SAP will also maintain this contribution and take responsibility of it for future releases
−
** Much interest in Orion JS tooling / editor, also on desktop
+
** Dani (after meeting): I think extending the current file based mechanism is OK, but we won't register any (including URL) handler
−
** Public face of Eclipse Platform at the conference was much more diverse than in the past (Lars Vogel, Max Anderson, Google ...)
+
−
* Dani: {{bug|458730}} '''Mars Plan Update'''
+
−
* Dani: '''e4 project leadership''' approved by EMO
+
−
* Dani: Szymon Brandys resigned as Platform/Resources co-lead. Need to +1 on the mailing list
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
-> Conclusion to work on this enhancement together with SAP, Alex plans to dedicate some time for discussing the technical solution. SAP should open a new bug and link all related bugs to this top-level bug so that the technical details can be discussed
  
−
'''March 11, 2015 - no meeting (EclipseCon)'''
+
* Discussion of building natives
 +
** moved building of SWT binaries for the 3 primary platforms to the Eclipse Foundation
 +
** unfortunately after that the Mac went down - fixed now
 +
** M4 SWT natives will be built on the Eclipse Foundation hardware
 +
** Launcher still to be moved
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''November 28, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
 +
* Alex: Release Change announcement
 +
** Agreed that we won't mention the ramp-down process.
 +
** Agreed to add API removal details.
 +
** Still work in progress.
 +
* Dani: API Removal process for the new release model
 +
** Agreed to allow removal announcement in ever of the 4 releases. As a consequence every release can have API removals.
 +
** https://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse/API_Central/Deprecation_Policy already reflects this.
 +
* Dani: Meeting notes
 +
** McQ suggested that who joins last has to do it. Dani: not so good since it won't contain the notes for the discussions that happened before.
 +
** Will do it based on rotation and ability to actually write down the notes.
 +
** Dani to do it for this call.
 +
* Dani: Photon plan update
 +
** Will add Java 9 as supported VM.
 +
** Anything else? If so, send Dani a note or update {{bug|527964}}
 +
* McQ: Rename Eclipse Project to Eclipse SDK
 +
** We should only do it when forced by the Foundation and/or Board
 +
** We would need a plan before starting such an effort.
  
−
'''March 4, 2015''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, John
+
'''November 14, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Tom
−
* Dani: '''e4 leadership''' - Dani will volunteer to co-lead
+
* Dani:
−
* Dani: '''BREEs''' - documentation about how to pick the EE
+
** Presented our new release model to Planning Council. Was welcomed. No objections. But needs discussion what the Release Train will do.
−
** Recommending the "earliest generally supported JRE that provides the capabilities you need"
+
** RC1 went well, RC2 this week.
−
** Would like an URL on the page pointing to the most recent plan (talking to Wayne)
+
−
* John: '''greatfix contest'''
+
−
** Dani: Working well - some very small contributions but some also very large (eg Customize Perspective fixes)
+
−
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - numbers looking good; join Planning Council Breakfast as delegate for Dani
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''November 07, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars
−
'''February 25, 2015''' - Dani, Martin McQ
+
* For the 3 months releases, we have have a development freeze after RC1 until RC3. After RC3 master will be opened again for development. Development is possible until RC1, so this will result in a freeze period of approx. 2 weeks.
−
* No topics
+
* For releases versions of the platform we will use semantic versioning as before (4.8, 4.9, 4.10, ..)
 +
* Eclipse SDK will use versions not branding names unless the release train moves also the same cycle.
 +
* Splash will continue show the release year and month
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''October 31, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Alex,
−
'''February 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Tom: '''Bugzilla Landing Page''' - EMO said both PMCs need to be contacted
−
* Alex: '''Building Native Launchers'''
+
** Bug IDs, Equinox product and components remain in place, only the landing page will be updated
−
** Current way of building is kinda unpredictable - even if getting some agreement on versions to use, results are kinda unpredictable
+
* Dani: '''M3 Respin'''
−
** Pushing towards Hudson RHEL builders at least at the EF to get more transparency and automation - attempt to mimic the infrastructure at IBM
+
** Issue had been found by a team member, but got lost between different teams
−
** Looking at 3 primary architectures (at the EF) for Linux vs. secondary architectures (non-public builders potentially)
+
** Resolved and respun very fast, the fix is out now
−
* Dani: Great initiative, but other (non-EF) builders must not be broken
+
* Dani: '''Release Cycles and Java Alignment'''
−
** EF doesn't allow any commercial tools (but currently, e.g. Windows launchers are built with MSVS)
+
** Planning Council F2F meeting was at EclipseCon Europe; planning call will be on Thursday
−
* Alex is willing to spend time to get Linux builds running; but can't help with other architectures
+
** Initially, felt like aligning with Java 18.3 was a good idea, but for now the plan is keeping the Oxygen SR rhythm and releasing Oxygen.3a aligned with Java
−
** Martin: great approach - for Windows, using a cross-compiler on Linux might be interesting (after Linux native works)
+
** In case the Oracle release should slip, it will be most likely be named 18.4 (whatever month the release ends up in)
−
* Alex: This is just phase one - getting rid of the binaries in git repos might be phase 2 (since the checked-in binaries easily cause inconsistencies between Java and Native side)
+
* All: '''Platform Release Rhythm'''
−
** Martin: Checked-in binaries help consumers and contributors who just want to make a Java change
+
** At ECE, many people were surprised about changing release rhythm but the plan was generally appreciated
−
** Dani: Checked-in binaries are also used for comparing build results for expected vs accidental changes
+
** Should stick to the communicated Photon plan though and change only afterwards
 +
** Alex suggests promoting a Milestone build from master (properly marked up as such) aligned with the Java 18 release
 +
*** This would promote master as something that can be used
 +
*** After Photon, we will release 4 times from master - there won't be any maintenance builds any more
 +
*** For the release train, there will also be release candidates.
  
−
* Alex: '''{{bug|459399}} - Policy for recommended minimum execution environments for bundles'''
+
<strike>October 24, 2017 - cancelled due to ECE</strike>
−
** Dani: It works today
+
−
*** To run Eclipse, Java 8 or Java 9 can be used (minimum BREE has no impact)
+
−
*** To modify the source, a new JRE can be used but then the Execution Environment Descriptions need to be installed
+
−
** Policy as discussed in the past: Each project can increase the BREE if there is a real need (such as generifying) and no upstream clients are broken
+
−
*** But don't change the BREE without justification -- changing the BREE always has some effect, such as new warnings that would need to be addressed
+
−
*** Suggested BREE for new bundles has already been changed by Lars
+
−
* Alex: Even for bundles in "maintenance mode", old BREE causes issues for people who build from source (who have to change compilers etc)
+
−
* No conclusion so far (Alex and Dani disagree)
+
−
 
+
−
* Dani: '''e4 leadership'''
+
−
** Mature bits being moved to Eclipse - e4 remaining as an incubator to keep alive for experiments with low entry barrier
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''February 11, 2015''' - Dani, Alex
+
'''October 17, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars, Alex
−
* no topics
+
* '''Conf.system:''' Fallback to McQ's number is not a good solution (can't give out the moderator code)
 +
** Foundation (Denis) is aware of the problem, looking for a solution sooner than later
 +
** Skype group call, or zoom.us would work for Dani and McQ
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|526065}} Java 9 to Oxygen.1a beta update issue'''
 +
** Users who had the Java 9 beta installed and "update" to Oxygen.1a are broken
 +
** McQ: Updating from "beta" to "final" is not necessarily supposed to be working (Lars disagrees)
 +
** Not yet sure what's causing the issue .. p2 bug, or different groupID for Java9beta
 +
** Fix the issue if it looks like a real bug or easy to fix ... otherwise just post a message, preferredly on the Marketplace client (''Dani: that part is done already'')
 +
* Lars: '''Release Cycle Discussion'''
 +
** McQ still in favor of making every milestone a release
 +
*** Alex thinks we're not there yet in terms of releng, there's still too many manual steps. Would prefer slower cadence (eg 3 months) until more automation is there (updating pom.xml, version mgmt, ...)
 +
*** With 4 releases per year (like today) but no more maintenance branches/backports, there's potentially less work than today
 +
*** Try starting with a release every 2nd milestone; fix automation; then strive for releasing every milestone.
 +
*** Dani thinks the model shouldn't change in the middle of Photon; look for feedback then move to the new model next year
 +
** McQ: If we switch to the new model now (Oxygen.2), what do we lose?
 +
*** Martin: Any bigger feature that would need to move into a branch? - Dani: Advanced Source Lookup
 +
*** Dani: Also our rules about "no new features" and "PMC Approval" would need to change
 +
*** '''Continue discussion in 2 weeks''' (skip next week due to EclipseCon)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
 
+
'''October 10, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex, Martin
−
'''February 4, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Dani: '''Oxygen.1a respin'''
−
* Alex: With GTK-3.15.[345] , Eclipse is entirely unusable
+
** Primary reason for respin was, that people who have existing XText installed would be broken when updating the Platform
−
** Alex has some dirty workarounds to make it start, but still many issues like trees not painted, ...
+
** Opportunity to piggy-back JDT critical fixes was welcome
−
** Crash on startup identified to be GTK bug. Fix to be released in 3.15.6 https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=edec64cda3d4518b4e87d5ea5d287d4570ba9933
+
* Dani: '''Equinox Move''' - Review passed without objections, working on implementation now
−
* Dani: Working on Solaris 64-bit
+
** Expecting less trouble than with the Platform and JDT merges recently
 +
** Foundation want to keep Equinox as a brand, therefore will be a subproject (beside Platform, JDT, PDE)
 +
** So to increase the committer base, the fast track option will now apply; also, more alignment in terms of PMC.
 +
** Confirmed again that we will ask Tom to join our PMC. Approval can be found in [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg03166.html this thread].
 +
* Dani: '''Planning Council - Rolling Releases Update'''
 +
** Should remove some of the work maintaining 2 streams - simply release from master regularly
 +
** In the past, API breakage (migration guide) was allowed only once per year - how to deal with this moving forward
 +
** Handle with semantic versioning; how to give adopters sufficient time to adjust
 +
** There's usually 2 camps for every topic being discussed ... though practically, Platform sets the pace
 +
** Release Naming - New Name every quarter? Versioning scheme? (like 2017.4 or 17.04)
 +
** How to simplify processes (also in terms of IP), can the Foundation scale up? Perhaps not more work, but more deadlines
 +
*** In terms of the Release Review, only the N&N and the Migration Guide are relevant; need to satisfy small and big consumers
 +
* Martin: '''Reddeer Contribution'''
 +
** When we last discussed this, it was an important criterion that any contributor can run the tests easily
 +
** Alex: Looks good, essentially boils down to running "mvn clean verify" in the PDE repo (or right-click > Run as Reddeer from the IDE) - '''AI Alex''' will have a video sent to the PMC list
 +
* Alex: '''API Removal in Context of Rolling Releases'''
 +
** Which Rules to apply for allowing removal of API; Allow removal in any release?
 +
*** McQ: The real question is, how long it takes consumers to adopt to removal
 +
*** Dani: Is more conservative regarding deletion - the value removing something is often smaller than the ripple it causes
 +
*** McQ: If there is code in our codebase that significantly slows us down, it should be remove even if API
 +
** Martin: With more releases, there's less push to upgrade ; but will consumers know they are broken? - Semantic versioning should address that, but who really uses upper version ranges ... they have caused more pain than benefit in the past
 +
** Dani: In the past, with our 3-year deprecation plan, Major versions have not been updated even on announced removals...
 +
** McQ: If we are earnest about faster velocity, we '''have to''' fully adopt semantic versioning practices. If we as producers have done what we could, our job is done - consumers who don't use upper version ranges are on their own
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''October 3, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin
 +
* '''Conf system woes''' - Dani couldn't dial in, Denis restarted the bridge leaving Martin and Alex in a Zombie bridge
 +
** '''ACTION McQ''' will send out conf.details using IBM's bridge
 +
* {{bug|520720}} Mickael's question on Performance improvement
 +
** Dani: There is already an asynchronous RequestLayout API for clients, and APIs already suggest clients use the async one
 +
*** Therefore, changing the synchronous API to work asynchronously doesn't look right.
 +
** Alex: We seem to be mixing two aspects here -- agree regarding RequestLayout concerns, but why should the ProgressMonitor one be a problem?
 +
*** Dani: Agree that the ProgressMonitor approach makes sense, but a very careful review is needed - existing code already subclasses ProgressMonitor, need to make sure that expected methods are still called
 +
*** '''ACTION Dani''' will do a careful review of the ProgressMonitor part and deny the generic RequestLayout part
 +
* Dani: '''Equinox Restructuring''' request for the move is in, will work with Tom and Foundation forward
 +
* Dani: '''Oxygen.1a''' - RC2 is in for JUnit5 and Java9
 +
** Respin of Oxygen.1 for {{bug|520176}} Mac 10.13 High Sierra problem? - Not currently planned, there will be 1a instead
 +
** A feature patch is another option, providing patched SWT; and, there's the workarounds
 +
* Dani: '''Rolling Release''' - 2 topics: rolling release, and alignment with Java Update Releases
 +
** Some projects on the train have alignment goals with other projects outside Java; will discuss again in the Planning Council
 +
* Alex: '''{{bug|522733}} webkit crash''' - A workaround is available, in contact with webkit devs for a complete fix to keep Photon usable
 +
** Workaround would introduce a small memory leak, but only on the first instance of webkit created
  
−
'''January 28, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, John
 
−
* Dani: Switch Mac OS X 10.9 with 10.10 in Mars target environments
 
−
** No objections
 
−
* Alex: Looking for any Eclipse related activity @Fosdem
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
−
'''January 21, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
'''September 26, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin
−
* Alex: '''Process for allowing non-committers extended bugzilla privileges (for bug triage)?'''
+
* {{bug|520176}} '''MacOSX 10.13 (High Sierra) Menus Disabled'''
−
** Dani: Yes a process exists. Send bugzilla username to Dani.
+
** Only non-English Locales are affected
−
* Alex: '''New resource for helping with SWT'''
+
** For 4.7.1a and Photon, a fix is in
−
* Dani: '''Platform/UI co-lead'''
+
** Foundation [https://www.eclipse.org/org/press-release/20170925criticalbug.php Press Release (Newsletter)] is out with information how to work around
−
* Dani: Solaris: Java 8 will only support 64 bits on both Intel and SPARC --&gt; IBM SWT Team considering to invest in getting patches in for 64-bit Solaris
+
** Tweets are around as well -- keep spreading the message
 +
* '''Equinox Move Review''' - progressing
 +
* Alex: {{bug|522733}} '''GTK Crash on Close preventing IDE Restart''' - can it go into 4.7.1a ?
 +
** Seen with Fedora 27 (Webkitgtk 2.18)
 +
** Foundation wanted to keep Java9 stuff separate, so pushing it there might not even help
 +
** The issue is serious (hard crash preventing restart of the IDE), though fortunately not many people have that particular webkitgtk version yet
 +
** Investigate details and possible workarounds, then consider our options -- maybe a Foundation Newsletter similar to the OSX 10.13 issue
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''January 14, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''September 19, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars
−
* Dani: Update on Platform/UI Leadership: Daniel Rolka left IBM and for now has no time to contribute. He stepped down as co-lead and nominated Lars Vogel
+
* '''Async APIs request from the eclipse-pmc list''' (not discussed today)
−
* Dani: Solaris x86 64-bit support - patches exist, but no machine available. No luck to get one from Oracle or via Eclipse Foundation. We will not support Solaris x86 64-bit unless someone makes a machine available
+
* Lars: '''Java 6-month release cycles'''
−
<hr/>
+
** Alex likes the 6 month idea - less backporting
 +
** McQ would ideally like full releases every 3 months (except not releasing anything unfinished)
 +
** Dani: If Java really delivers every 6 months (will they?), Eclipse could consider rolling releases every milestone. There is a doc from the Planning Council (Mélanie Bats) in that regard.
 +
** Dani: Support for the public JDKs will be limited to the current release only (6mo)
 +
** Risk: Oracle Java may be working on big features "in the background", if there is very little time adopting new features (current license doesn't allow releasing stuff built on Beta's) it's hard for Eclipse to keep up
 +
** Lars: Some teams already moving to Kotlin...
 +
** Dani: More discusssions planned at ECE, AC etc
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to wait for now for (a) the Planning Council announcement and (b) how Java will actually implement and live up to their plans. Work towards faster release cycles (that's a good message to the consumers anyways).
 +
** Will need to work on details. If there's more releases, and each one needs a review, it's more work on release records and reviews. Already on a good path here, paperwork reduced to a matter of an hour.
 +
* Dani: Java 9 (Oxygen.1a) round the door. Plan is a full release.
 +
* McQ: {{bug|520176}} '''MacOS 10.13 menubar issue''' people at Apple are also looking at it. Biggest problem is that it's not 100% reproducible. Might end up with some System Properties to be set to resolve the problem.
  
−
'''January 7, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 
−
* Dani: '''Platform/UI Leadership'''
 
−
* John: '''Git security issue''' - pick up a patch for Jgit in the packages before SR2? - Mostly an EPP
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''September 12, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
 +
* Dani asked Alex to look into {{bug|517063}} with high prio. We need this for M2.
 +
* Dani: sub-project merge
 +
** McQ and Lars approved my message regarding sub-project. Will send out the note today.
 +
** Still an issue with IP log not being merged
 +
** Release engineers can no longer restart the HIPPs
 +
* Started to discuss [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg03116.html Advise for performance enhancement making API methods behave async]
 +
** We need more time to verify the fix and look at the patch. Will discuss and decide next week.
  
−
'''December 17, 2014''' - McQ, John, Dani
+
'''September 5, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Martin
−
* Platform UI leadership to be discussed in the next PMC call
+
* Alex: {{bug|521639}} '''Mac Signing Issues for Oxygen.1'''
−
* no call on December 24 and December 31
+
** 3 requests out of 5 failing, don't know yet why - webmasters assume hardware issues, trying to move to a different machine
 +
** RC4:
 +
*** Security fix in p2 ({{bug|518031}})
 +
*** Changes in Releng scripts to run tests on different Mac machine
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''December 10, 2014''' - Alex, McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
'''August 29, 2017''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
−
* Dani: {{bug|427768}} Mickael (Red Hat) - Nested Project support contribution to Common Navigator to better support Maven projects
+
* All: '''Conference System Woes''' - 3 tries for McQ (race conditions?), 2 tries for Martin (silence first), 10 tries for Dani
−
* Dani: Red Hat also will wants to contribute making the Import easier {{bug|421930}}. First in the e4 incubator.
+
* Dani: '''Subproject Merge''' done after some hiccups, no complaints since Fri
−
** Just import from a folder, and contribute project configurators via extension point (e.g. detect POM files, Makefiles, ...)
+
** Subprojects are now "archived" with a comment that they got merged into the parent project
−
** McQ: Many complexities ... different users may want very different things to happen
+
** '''AI Dani''' planning to send another notification to mailing lists:
−
*** McQ: Just point to a Git repo -- the Git repo has a little metadata file at the root which allows launching the apps that the repo had been intended for ... maybe just make the project tree(s) a little more self-describing
+
*** former PLs to become Repo Maintainers responsible for signoff and planning
−
*** Is there a growing list of repos which already have that? - John: In the Java world, pom.xml is getting that ...
+
*** Bugzilla remaining the same
−
*** Alex: .doap getting this (at least for Apache and GNOME projects - specifies at least the languages used)
+
*** Some former subproject leads already stepped up as combined project co-leads (Lars, Lakshmi, Sarika)
−
* Web IDEs : McQ and others gone through a lot of analysis of Web IDE's
+
** McQ: Move forward towards the new structure, but there's also need to push for responsibility among the subcomponents (finding go-to persons...)
−
** Cloud9 has a much larger set of starting points ; in terms of the underlying core structure, Orion (and also Jay) are more interesting
+
* Dani: '''StyledText improvement request on the ML''' (Pluggable selection model)
−
** Orion has an extremely lightweight plug-in model: pieces coming from all over the world may look like all running on the server - nice infrastructure for building Community around it
+
** point to the e4 incubator for experiments, encourage innovation though might be quite hard and pervasive
−
** Orion + Flux could be a rival for anything out there
+
* RC3 looking good (except for build issues on the Foundation side, no I-Build since Aug.22 - Mac DMG is at risk for RC3)
−
** Orion continues to push on the Core Coding experience - Orion Editor is on par or better than most desktop editors
+
* Dani away next week, please watch the list for approvals towards RC4 next week
−
* Vision: See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-vision/msg00065.html Minutes on the platform-vision mailing list] ... Delivery will depend on people actually participating
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''December 3, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, John (McQ travelling)
+
'''August 22, 2017''' - Alex, Dani, Martin
−
* John: [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-vision/ Platform Vision] - How to turn that into actionable items, Wayne wants to present to the Board
+
* All: '''Conference System Woes''' - Dani had 7 minutes trouble dialing in; Alex was kicked out
−
* John: '''Performance tests''' running again since a couple weeks, now the graphs are also back again :)
+
* Dani: '''Plan''' - '''AI Martin''' review
−
** See http://download.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/drops4/I20141202-0800/performance.php
+
** Target Platform reduced - removed too much? - and Subproject plans. Rest is copy-and-paste.
−
** Results are there but fingerprints currently missing
+
* Dani: '''Subproject Merge''' - Everything approved, waiting for implementation by EMO.
−
** Baseline is 4.4.0 at the moment (consider comparing against 3.x at some point)
+
* Dani: '''RC2 this week''' - Still many Platform/UI bugs, Dani will make a pass moving out since Lars is on vacation
−
** John: From experience, a single result isn't helpful, there's often weird anomalies from build to build ... need to look at trends over multiple builds, thus the graphs are really useful
+
* Martin: '''feature/bundle version issues'''
 +
** Dani: Checking versions is quite time consuming, there's no tooling solution for the workspace right now (but there are reports).
 +
** For branding bundles and features, rules are different than for others - Dani currently doing those, since few people have access
 +
** Currently we're looking good, but automation would be better than manual nagging
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''November 26, 2014''' - Alex, Dani
+
'''August 15, 2017''' - Alex, Dani
−
* No relevant topics / decisions
+
* Dani: '''subproject merge''' initiated - waiting for webmasters
 +
* Dani: Provided Photon (4.8) release record and plan - please provide comments
 +
* Alex and Dani discussed feature/bundle version issues - next builds should be better
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''November 19, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, Dani  (''McQ and John had issues dialing in'')
 
−
* Dani: '''Jetty 9''' - Upgrade has been done, but new versions coming out ... will probably update from Jetty 9.2.3 to Jetty 9.2.5. Probably 9.3
 
−
** WTP interested in newer Jetty version ... need to agree on a common version across the Release Train.
 
−
** Alex: New Jetty JSP compiler failing ... filed a bug, will want this fixed (Jetty working on it)
 
−
* Dani: '''{{bug|179924}} Request for ssh-agent''' - patch against Team from YMNK (JSch Committer)
 
−
** egit would contribute the agent, but would make more sense putting it in Platform (+1 from Martin, no objection from Alex)
 
−
* Equinox Declarative Services implementation - ProSyst stopped providing fixes, not responsive any more
 
−
** New specificiation (R6) from OSGi adding lot of features, cannot risk staying behind
 
−
** Suggestion to remove the ProSyst stuff and replace it with the Apache Felix implementation (used by IBM / WebSphere and others)
 
−
** Martin: How mature / stable is the Felix code ? Can we influence it ?
 
−
*** Dani: Very mature. Have more influence on Felix than on the Prosyst stuff ... through the IBM committers and others.
 
−
*** Alex agrees. Using some parts of Felix already.
 
−
* John (via Dani): '''Move e4 into Platform/UI''' - would like to start the review process next week.
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''August 8, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani
−
'''November 5, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Eclipse [[Asterisk]] system is not working reliably (again). It took Dani 6 minutes until he could dial in (using the Swiss number - US number failed repeatedly). McQ can't dial in until 10 min later.
−
* Eclipse Foundation greatbugs initiative - call into PMC
+
* Dani: starting the '''planning record for Photon''' to announce participation in M1
−
* Dani: EclipseCon Europe Report - met lot of people, best attended EclipseCon Europe ever :)
+
** Toplevel items: JUnit5, Java9. Subplans on the Wiki.
−
** IOT; IDE in the Web; are people moving away from Eclipse before the transition to Web can be completed ?
+
* Dani: '''subproject merge''' - wanted to wait for M1, but should be done this week
−
* Alex: Discussion with Christian Campo on scaling up
+
* Alex: '''ppc64be''' - Sravan is waiting on final decision whether it will be removed in Photon
−
** Should better go into SWT ... but SWT has a reputation that it's hard getting a change in -- people prefer re-doing things their own than contributing :(
+
** Dani: PMC decision was settled, so removed from Eclipse plan - IBM ''might'' still continue building it for internal use
−
** Alex thinks this problem doesn't exist any more ... but how to fight this misconception ?
+
−
** John: Getting a change in may now be hard due to other reasons, eg lack of experienced committers
+
−
** Alex: Consider voting in new committers more easily if somebody is interested ?
+
−
* Alex: Difference between Eclipse and the Linux Foundation
+
−
** Linux Foundation doesn't provide anything that anybody can use directly (just a source tarball) --&gt; all users become "contributors" of some sort
+
−
** This leads to different expectations and has a number advantages (eg issues are reported to and worked on by member companies only)
+
−
 
+
−
'''October 22, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, John
+
−
* Platform plan update nearly done, will be released soon
+
−
* Orion release review is ongoing, release will be next week
+
−
* Brief discussion of new bug reporting tool and related bug [https://dev.eclipse.org/recommenders/committers/dashboard/#/dashboard/temp/e6leTB3gQy-zUZI-73KtRQ dashboard]
+
−
* PMC called '''canceled''' next week due to EclipseCon Europe
+
−
 
+
−
'''October 1, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ
+
−
* Dani - In touch with Oracle regarding Solaris x86
+
−
* McQ - '''Platform UI''' tension between making Platform UI as stable as possible, versus new features
+
−
** Community forming for new contributions - that's great! - But takes committer's time; committers reduced to "productize and fix" is problematic
+
−
** how to get more contributions for bug fixes ?
+
−
*** Alex: What about saying "This release we only accept bug fixes" ? Or for some milestone, eg after M4 only accept bug fixes ?
+
−
*** Dani: Sounds great, but will the Community accept that ? - JDT BugBash did not work that well...
+
−
*** Dani to prepare a draft message
+
−
* Dani was in Bangalore - talked to Arun - good collaboration with Alex
+
−
** Hard to get new SWT developers (Sami moving away on RH side)
+
−
** Ideas to keep SWT relevant ... eg generate Browser based things
+
−
*** GTK3 supports running in a browser now... (just one label for now, but an interesting approach)
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''September 24, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, John, Martin
+
'''August 1, 2017''' - no call
−
* John: '''SWT Binaries Repository''' has got too big
+
−
** Will prune old versions out of the git repository (which is only used internally) - "Release" drops will still be available from release builds.
+
−
** '''DECISION:''' OK to prune.
+
−
* '''SWT master still has sources for old Platforms''' like carbon and motif - cluttering up the source code
+
−
** '''DECISION:''' OK to remove references - source would remain in git for old branches, but not be visible in master any more.
+
−
* Dani: '''p2 and Equinox''' - no sign-off for M2, leaders stepping down ?
+
−
** consider moving p2 back into Equinox, and probably Equinox back into the Eclipse project ?
+
−
** John: Equinox committers not really knowledgeable about p2 ... still, with less than 3 active committers a threshold is reached (can't hold elections any more)
+
−
** Still there's a couple of people contributing, so there are knowledgeable folk around
+
−
** Dani: If there's committers committing code, they should also be responsible for sign-off
+
−
* Dani: '''Java 7 and Jetty 9'''
+
−
** Been using Jetty 8 for a while, now, there is Community Pressure upgrading to Jetty 9 but that requires Java 7
+
−
** Java 6 no longer getting public updates since February 2013
+
−
** John:Adoptions needed in the Help System when moving to Jetty 9 ?
+
−
*** Alex don't think so - been shipping Jetty 9 for over a year already; only required changing some dependencies.
+
−
*** '''ACTION ITEM: Alex offered to check this'''
+
−
* Alex: '''Drop all the Java 6 Platforms from the list of Reference Platforms?'''
+
−
** '''DECISION:''' Yes this needs to be done. Trying to support Java 6 won't buy any benefit at this point.
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''July 25, 2017''' - Alex, Lars, Dani
−
'''September 17, 2014''' - no meeting
+
* project merge got go, Dani to implement it with webmaster and then send out the announcement this or next week. E-mail will also mention that existing project leads can become co-leads on Eclipse Platform
 +
* Discussion if CVS should be removed from the SDK build, Alex +1, Lars +1, Dani +1
 +
* Discussion if the remaining 2.0 compatibility layer can be removed, Dani: OK to remove but other plug-ins might still have dependencies to it, must the also updated, as well as the documentation
  
 +
'''July 18, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
 +
* project merge review awaiting go from Wayne - Dani pinged again in the bug report
 +
* Dani will kick off planning for Photon a bit earlier since he will be in Bangalore the next 12 days. Platform UI already started.
 +
* M1 on August 11
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''September 10, 2014''' - John, Martin, Alex, Dani
+
'''July 11, 2017''' - no meeting
−
* John: Mars having some build hickups due to removing Mac 32-bit builds
+
−
* John: Luna SR1 - almost done, respinning for 2 bugs in Equinox
+
−
* John: Cloud TLP (for Orion and others) - still on track for announcing end October
+
−
* Alex: Been busy with other stuff recently, back on the GTK version support discussion this week
+
−
** Martin: Many people will know what distro they have (or need), but not what GTK they have on there
+
−
*** John: Also running GTK on AIX, Solaris, Linux Power and other which are not moving up that fast...
+
−
*** Martin: Examples: RHEL 5.8 was GTK 2.10.4-21 ; RHEL 4.5 was at GTK 2.4.13-22
+
−
*** Popular distros would be Ubuntu LTS, RHEL, OpenSUSE
+
−
** Alex: Newer distros have up to 3 GTK versions installed, along with some means to switch between them, it's very confusing
+
−
** Eclipse is the only project that dynamically loads DLL's and tries to support a broad range ... others typically compile against a specific version
+
−
*** Most projects require GTK 2.24
+
−
** John: GTK versions are not really predictable ... between 3.04 and 3.10 there was a breaking change
+
−
** Alex: In every release there are small issues that we work around; and there's certain releases that are breaking stuff
+
−
** '''NEXT ACTION: Send E-Mail'''
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''July 4, 2017''' - no meeting
−
'''September 3, 2014''' - John, Alex, Dani
+
−
* Dani: away next week and on/off the next two weeks due to travel
+
−
* Dani: RC4 next week. PMC please watch the PMC mailing list
+
−
** John: will be available and monitor the mailing list
+
−
* Dani: Oracle interested in providing access to a Solaris 64-bit machine {{bug|442266}}
+
−
* John: How/where to graduate the e4 tools
+
−
** the community wants to graduate this out of incubation
+
−
** initially proposed to create a separate project, but feels like adding too much overhead
+
−
** John: proposed PDE as home, then Dani suggested to use Platform UI
+
−
** Alex, Dani and John agree to suggest Platform UI as home for the e4 tools.
+
−
** John to send a note to Lars
+
−
* Alex: Limit supported number of GTK+ versions
+
−
** SWT currently has to support over 20 different version. This doesn't scale.
+
−
** Proposal: Bump min supported version with one minor release each release. Aka Luna has Gtk 2.10 as min, Mars would have 2.12 as min. Can consider even two minor releases (Mars requires 2.14) as this would keep the amount of supported versions the same as GTK releases one minor release every 6 months.
+
−
** Dani, John: this is too limiting. We tended to support the most possible. Newest versions might have too many bugs.
+
−
** All agree: we'd like to limit the amount of supported versions
+
−
** Alex to cast a poll via Eclipse Foundation, which versions are used by users and companies
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
 
+
'''June 27, 2017''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
−
'''August 27, 2014''' - cancelled
+
* '''Equinox Merge to the Eclipse TLP'''
 +
** Keep Equinox as a separate Project, to allow independent Equinox releases without Platform (and keep Bugzilla simple)
 +
** The only argument for stronger integration would be getting more committers, but there is no strong need and we have the FastTrack process in place for that
 +
* '''Eclipse Merge of Component (Sub)Projects into Platform'''
 +
** Just 4 Projects: Platform, Equinox, JDT, PDE (plus the incubators for e4 and JDT)
 +
** Former (Sub)Project Leads to become "Component Leads", "Technology Owners" or "Repository Owners"
 +
*** Repository Ownership is appealing as the structure is very clear (+1 Dani,Alex,McQ)
 +
** Platform Lead initially Dani, more Co-Leads could step up if they want
 +
*** Main work is helping component leads if they can't come to a consensus - usually less work than PMC duties
 +
* Dani: '''JSR 376 Ballot'''
 +
** Public review reconsideration ballot got approved by all except Red Hat who abstained
 +
** Much progress in the past weeks, consensus except RH abstained
 +
** Looks like the OOBE of Java9 would tolerate reflection, currently looks like on track for a September Release
 +
* '''Vacations''' many people will be off next week, especially in the U.S.
 +
** PMC call will be skipped next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
 
+
'''June 20, 2017''' - MQ, Dani, Lars, Alex
−
'''August 20, 2014''' - John, Alex, Dani
+
* Attracting new contributors discussions - code cleanup and deletion of old paths needed
−
* Dani: new platform PowerPC 64-bit LE {{bug|441358 }}
+
** Alex: Big issue to get people working on codebase and considering many now irrelevant paths in the codebase
−
** maintained by IBM
+
** Dani: Cleanups should be done by the one starting them through the whole SDK
−
** will be added to 4.4.1 as early access
+
** Lars: Not feasible as some projects are slower pace moving and the change might require more effort than one can or is willing to spend in his free time
−
** Dani to send a note to cross-platform
+
** Alex: Great opportunity to have new people joining by doing simple tasks and grow them into full committers
−
* Dani: individual made patches to support Solaris 64-bit {{bug|442266}}
+
** McQ: We have to come up with list of items we would like to get cleaned and properly follow our deprecation policy even if the migration guide for Photon get really big with things we schedule for removal in the future.
−
** we'd like to add it but don't have a machine to support it
+
* Dani: Sub-projects merge
−
** important because our current 32-bit Solaris build will become obselete since there's no 32-bit JRE for Java 7 and beyond
+
** Name of the new project - McQ: Everyone refers to it as Platform so natural choice it is
−
** Oracle should be interested since they provide both, Java and Solaris
+
** JDT, PDE, Platform (subprojects) to become single project
−
** Dani to ask Oracle
+
** Person responsible for some code area in the merged project - to be further dicussed
 +
* Dani: Dropping Xulrunner support - PMC to approve it in the bug
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''Juni 13, 2017''' - MQ, Dani, Lars
 +
* Dani: Release review for 4.7 was successful
 +
* Dani: Rebuild for 4.7RCa required due to new EMF version and a fix for a critical bug which resulted in duplicated menu entries
  
−
'''August 13, 2014''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
+
* Merge of the sub-projects
−
* Dani: Any feedback for the [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_5.xml Mars plan]?
+
** Planned for M1, desired to be coordinated with the move of Equinox to Platform
−
** McQ:
+
** We prefer to keep the project pages and wikis so that all the information is kept
−
*** It does not cover Orion, but that is OK and like in previous release plans. Orion will most likely be moved to another top-level project soon.
+
** Preferable we want to have one committer list for Eclipse platform
−
*** We want to remove Mac OS X Universal 32-bit (all agreed)
+
** Dani to check with foundation how the merge can be done
−
* Dani: How to deal with requests to push our bundles to repo.eclipse.org {{bug|441530}}
+
−
** Dani: OK for me but we won't do the work
+
−
** Alex: Maven needs the dependencies in the pom.xml. We don't want copy them from the manifest into the pom.xml and then maintain this. The pom should be updated when publishing the file into the Maven repo. Ideally by an automated task.
+
−
** Conclusion: all agree with this, i.e. we won't do the actual work and we won't "pollute" our pom files.
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''August 6, 2014''' - McQ, Dani
+
−
* Dani: Will provide initial Mars plan next week
+
  
 +
'''May 30, 2017''' - Martin, Dani, Lars
 +
* Dani: Please approve or disapprove the release review
 +
* Dani: '''Starting the Debugger doesn't work always'''
 +
** Occurs for Lars, but isn't reproducible - one of the top 3 things to fix if steps to reproduce are found
 +
** Lars: Equinox replaced the DS implementation in 4.7, the issue is probably related
 +
** Failure is totally random: On a very slow Virtual Machine, it failed almost always (9 failures out of 10); on other machine it works most of the time; even after working fine 3 times, it may fail the 4th time; seems to occur more frequently on older machines than newer ones.
 +
** Martin: try with a reverse debugger like [http://chrononsystems.com/products/chronon-time-travelling-debugger/download Chronon] ?
 +
*** Should help by just collecting a log; and when the failure occurs, "play back" the log to understand under what condition the race condition occurs; the a reproducible case is available, and the log can also be sent around between different developers for investigation, potentiall also to Apache Felix upstream
 +
* Dani: '''Equinox Launcher Issues'''
 +
** During M7, a change was made to ignore certain command-line arguments
 +
** This caused 2 regressions - {{bug|517013}} and {{bug|516349}} MacOSX restart regression
 +
** Java 9 will probably change the parameters again, see {{bug|516911}} :(
 +
** It's getting too late to make any more changes to the Launcher. Re-compiling on different hardware has already caused {{bug|517013}}, it's possible that more issues (not yet known) might be caused by the rebuild. With Java 9 probably changing again, we don't win much by rebuilding to try and align with something that's not yet released.
 +
*** Option A: Put options into the eclipse.ini -- today it works for both Java 8 and Java 9
 +
*** Option B: Add the "probably proposed" new option to the launcher, will need to rebuild the launcher again
 +
*** Option C: Revert the launcher to what it was before (and well tested) back to M6 - for running with Java 9, the options have to be added manually
 +
** Users will have to read on a webpage what needs to be done for Java 9 launching; for Eclipse SDK, a single option is needed - some add-on components
 +
*** Additional complexity: Different JVMs need different options (IBM, Oracle...)
 +
*** Martin: {{bug|517452}} Introduce a fallback mechanism to the launcher, which reads the Java ID and loads 'eclipse-javaID.ini' with a fallback to 'eclipse.ini', but does not seem reasonable for Oxygen since too late
 +
*** Better to have a clean story: At IBM, the entire build environment changed ... reverting gets us back to a bullet-proof launcher that was tested for 7 milestones ... will work safely with Java 8, for Java 9 people will have to read the N&N or StackOverflow to find out about the right arguments - same as in Neon
 +
* '''AGREEMENT to revert the Launcher to the M6 version'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''No meetings in July'''
+
'''May 23, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ
−
 
+
* Dani: '''Apache Batik XXE Vulnerability'''
 +
** Alex: Moving to Batik 1.9 would be good, but there is so much UI breakage that it's not viable for Oxygen
 +
* Martin: '''Bugs discovered during RC test cycle'''
 +
** Surprised that some low-priority issues do get attention ({{bug|517108}}) while others get no response at all ({{bug|517013}}
 +
** Dani: Only interested in severe issues and regressions - send message to platform-releng-dev with severe regressions found
 +
** Dani: Please +1 the Gerrit for {{bug|517108}}
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 4, 2014''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex
+
'''May 16, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars
−
* Dani: '''RC4 Status''' looking good
+
* Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
−
** 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
+
** Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
−
** Rest of the team working on docs
+
* {{bug|509922}} Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
−
** Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
+
** Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
−
* John: '''Went over the N&N''' ... number of things went in after M7 :)
+
** Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
−
** Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way
+
* '''Test failures:''' Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
−
 
+
** Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
 +
** CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
 +
** UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
 +
* {{bug|516114}} Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
 +
** Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
 +
** The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
 +
** That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
 +
** Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
 +
*** The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
 +
** '''AGREEMENT:''' In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
 +
*** Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
 +
*** McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
 +
* Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
 +
* Alex: '''Project Structure'''
 +
** Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
 +
** Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
 +
** In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
 +
** Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
 +
** McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
 +
** Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move forward on this, with a ''Platform Leadership'' group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 11, 2014''' - Martin, McQ, Alex, John
+
'''May 9, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ
−
* John: Eclipse Theming: When switching the OS Theme to dark, Eclipse should be aware
+
* Dani: '''JSR376 Jigsaw''': 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
−
** Dark Theme is currently a tech preview
+
** From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
−
 
+
** JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
 +
** For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
 +
** JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
 +
* Dani: '''M7/RC0''' - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
 +
** When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
 +
**# Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
 +
**# Section forms layout
 +
* Dani: '''httpcore 4.4.1 -&gt; 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility'''
 +
** Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
 +
** People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
 +
** Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
 +
** Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
 +
** Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
 +
* Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
 +
* Dani: '''Release Review''', does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
 +
** All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
 +
** McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
 +
** Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
 +
** Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 4, 2014''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex
+
'''May 2, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
−
* Dani: '''RC4 Status''' looking good
+
* Lars: '''Regex Evaluator Plugin'''
−
** 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
+
** Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
−
** Rest of the team working on docs
+
** Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
−
** Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
+
** McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
−
* John: '''Went over the N&N''' ... number of things went in after M7 :)
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
−
** Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way
+
* Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
−
 
+
* Dani: '''JSR Jigsaw Ballot'''
 +
** Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 28, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
'''Apr 25, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* Dani: '''EOL'ing the Delta Pack''' - announce now, remove during Mars - it's been obsoleted by p2 functionality
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3a'''
−
** Alex: Some of the test suite relied on the delta pack, it caused issues, OK with removing (PDE tests would need to be cleaned up)
+
** Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
−
* Dani: '''Copyright Updates''' - tool is very slow since not ported from CVS properly, can run for hours
+
*** '''AI Alex''' tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
−
** John: Worth doing periodically but probably won't matter legally since copyright lasts for 7 years
+
*** Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem
−
** The change is not without risk (Dani: Could schedule after the release)
+
−
** McQ: Should consider updating the tool as part of that work
+
−
** Alex: Has a new intern, could use this as an opportunity to join
+
−
* Dani: '''RC3 status''' - last planned build - looking good, except for Platform UI, where the list of bugs is still long
+
−
* McQ: Discussions about a new Eclipse.org Web-based Toplevel Project
+
−
 
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 14, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
+
'''Apr 18, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
−
* Alex: SWT GTK3 and the Endgame Rules
+
* Dani: '''RH and Java9 Jigsaw'''
−
* Dani: Luna Plan Update
+
** Very good write-up linked from the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03385.html AC Mailinglist] - see also [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03389.html follow-up]
−
* John: New Dashboard created by the EMO
+
** Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
 +
* Dani: '''Neon.3 Respin'''
 +
** Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
 +
* Lars: '''[https://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/glance#group-details Glance] Migration''' to e4 and/or Platform
 +
** e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
 +
* Lars
 +
** JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 7, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, John, Martin
+
'''Apr 11, 2017''' - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani
−
* Martin {{bug|241957}} - GTK clipboard hang
+
* Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
−
** Alex: GTK guys recommended using the async API, but no time for more investigation
+
** There will be a special drop for Java 9 in July, but it has not yet been decided whether it will be a release where users automatically get the update, or a special p2 repository or Marketplace entry where the update can be done on demand.
−
** McQ: Switching a sync API to async implementation underneath can be extremely messy (need to be aware of all possible events and event sources...)
+
** Issues with Neon.3. A respin might be necessary. For details see https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/msg02741.html.
−
** McQ: If there is an idea canceling the clipboard wait ... given that the issue occurs only rarely, even a hacky solution is better than nothing
+
* Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.
−
* Dani: will do a plan update, hopefully this week
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''April 30, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
+
'''Apr 04, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* McQ: '''WB4 perspective customization''' - has it caused any issues ?
+
* Martin: {{bug|514257}} and [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev/msg14316.html cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue]
−
** Martin: Dealing with detached views works differently (dragging a window fails - must drag the tab inside the window)
+
** Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
−
** Dani: Saved perspectives / windows are lost on an existing workspace when moving from 3.x to 4.x
+
** Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
−
*** Martin/McQ: When crossing the major version boundary, it is OK to lose state - it's not nice but acceptable
+
** Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
−
** Dani: The bigger problem is, that the whole "Perspective customization" dialog is still not working as expected
+
*** Commons Logging is not a Singleton
−
*** Martin: Agree with the concern, but the Perspective customization dialog wasn't ever great
+
** Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
−
*** McQ: If invest work here, rather make it good than bring back the previous status quo
+
* Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
−
*** Martin: Most customization done via plugin.xml / Java , don't expect end users to do a lot of customization themselves
+
* Dani: '''PPC''' - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week
−
* Dani: '''M7 status'''
+
−
** Defect triage under control - some items deferred to 4.5
+
−
 
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''April 23, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin
+
'''Mar 28, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
−
* Alex - GTK2 or GTK3 as default - GTK3 it is
+
* Replacement for Sergey
−
** GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to
+
** let's wait and see how things go
−
*** xulrunner - latest version not supported by swt and latest distros don't even ship standalone xulrunner
+
** next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
−
*** webkitgtk - gtk2 version in maintenance mode, upstream consider dropping, really crashy See [https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-gtk/2014-March/001821.html]
+
* Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
−
** GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
+
** all agree
−
** McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
+
** McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
−
* Dani - '''Freeze Plan created'''
+
* Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
−
* John - '''Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret'''
+
* Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)
−
*
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''April 16, 2014''' - Dani, Alex
+
'''Mar 21, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* no topics today
+
* Dani: '''Dirk Fauth''' [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02891.html Requests on eclipse-pmc]
 +
** Alex agrees with Dani
 +
** Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
 +
** Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
 +
* Dani: '''Szymon Ptasiewicz'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''April 9, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
+
'''Mar 14, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* Dani - '''Kepler SR2 and Java 8'''
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 readiness''' - see [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev cross-project-issues-dev]
−
** Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
+
** Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
−
** Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
+
*** Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
−
** Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
+
** Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the [[Java 9 Readiness]] wiki can show violations
−
** Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
+
*** Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
−
 
+
*** Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
−
* John - '''Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions'''
+
** Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
−
** Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
+
** All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
−
** Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
+
*** This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
−
** Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
+
** Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
−
** Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches
+
* Dani: '''JUnit 5''' considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
 +
** Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
 +
* Dani: '''2 Platform Issues in M6'''
 +
** platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
 +
** major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
 +
*** In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
 +
*** In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
 +
* Alex: '''Generic Editor and Testing'''
 +
** Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
 +
** Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
 +
** Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
 +
** In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
 
+
'''Mar 7, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars
−
'''April 2, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
+
* Dani: '''4.6.3 Updates''' - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
−
* Dani - new GTK3+ issues
+
* Dani: '''4.7M7 Update''' - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
−
** crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX ({{bug|431330}})
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 / Planning Council Update''' - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
−
** problems with main menu ({{bug|419830}})
+
** See the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/ eclipse.org-planning-council archives]
−
* Dani - '''Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work'''
+
* Lars: '''Platform.Resources Leadership''' after Sergey Leaving
−
** Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
+
** Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
−
* Dani - need to '''approve API changes for Java 8 in M7'''
+
** Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
−
** No API changes, only additions
+
** Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
−
** Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
+
** Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
−
** ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
+
** Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept
−
** There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
+
−
* John - '''SWT over JavaFX'''
+
−
** EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
+
−
** Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
+
−
** Relationship to Tom Schindl's [http://www.eclipse.org/efxclipse/index.html e(fx)clipse project] ?
+
−
*** e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
+
−
*** Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
+
−
*** Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in {{bug|426243}}
+
−
*** Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
+
−
**** It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
+
−
**** John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
+
−
*** Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX
+
−
 
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''March 26, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
+
'''Feb 28, 2017''' - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ
−
* John - '''EclipseCon Update'''
+
* Alex: '''Short update on Neon.3'''
−
** Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
+
** 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
−
** IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
+
** PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
−
** Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
+
* Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
−
** Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
+
* Martin: '''RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing'''
−
** See also Blog Posts from [http://cdtdoug.ca/ Doug Schaefer] and [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/author/irbull/ Ian Bull] as well as [https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2014/news/top-5-ian-bull top 5 from Ian]
+
** Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
−
* John - '''ARM port of GTK''' - any tracking items ?
+
** Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
−
** Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
+
** Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
−
** IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
+
** '''AI Martin''' will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like {{bug|505826}} resolved ideally
−
** Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
+
*** See https://github.com/moberhuber/eclipse.platform.rcptt-tests
−
** Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
+
*** And https://github.com/eclipse-testing/eclipse-platform
−
*** Example: {{bug|430698}}, {{bug|429237}}, {{bug|415757}}; {{bug|419855}} talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
+
−
*** Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
+
−
*** Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
+
−
**** Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
+
−
**** Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
+
−
* Alex - '''Java 8 vs Java 7''' currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
+
−
** In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
+
−
** ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is {{bug|390889}} and we'll try to fix it for M7.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''March 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
'''Feb 21, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey
−
* McQ - '''Congrats on Java 8 Release''' to coincide with the Oracle release
+
* Lars: {{Bug|512273}} Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and {{Bug|512319}} allow rebase
−
* Dani - '''Windows 8 Support''' - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
+
** '''Agreement''' to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
−
** McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
+
** Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
−
** Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
+
** '''AI Lars''' follow up on the bug
−
** Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation
+
* Martin: '''UI Testing'''
 +
** [http://eclipse.org/rcptt RCPTT] is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
 +
** Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
 +
** When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
 +
** Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
 +
** Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
 +
*** Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
 +
** '''AI Martin''' follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
 +
** '''AI Alex''' share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
 +
** '''AI Lars''' play with the Reddeer API
 +
* Dani: '''Update on PPC''' drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs {{bug|512224}}
 +
** Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm '''AI Alex and Dani''' ask Denis
 +
* Dani: '''Neon.3 RC3''' please keep an eye on builds
 +
* Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''March 12, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''Feb 15, 2017'''
−
* GTK - SWT team discussions
+
−
* John - '''preparing for Java 8 release'''
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''March 5, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
+
'''Feb 8, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
−
* Dani: '''How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit''' - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|509412}}''' - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
−
* Dani: '''Windows 8 Support'''
+
** Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
−
** Not listed in official plan
+
** Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
−
** No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
+
** Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
−
** Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
+
** Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
−
** Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
+
* Dani: '''Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform'''
−
** AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
+
** Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
−
*** Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
+
** Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
−
* Dani: '''State of GTK 3+'''
+
* Dani: '''Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server'''
−
** Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
+
** Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
−
** Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
+
* Dani: '''Scenarios for UI Testing'''
−
** Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
+
** Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
−
** Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
+
* Dani: '''Sign Up for Security Rep'''
−
** On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
+
** See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/tools-pmc/msg03927.html Wayne's message to PMCs] requesting PMC attendance
−
** Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
+
** John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
−
* Alex: '''GTK 3 in Mars'''
+
** Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
−
** Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
+
** '''RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up''' since already following security issues
−
** RHEL 5 would no longer work
+
* Dani+Alex: '''libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC'''
−
** Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI
+
** Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
 +
** Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
 +
** Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
 +
** Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
 +
** Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
 +
** If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
 +
** '''AI Dani+McQ''' find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
 +
* Alex: '''Update on Reddeer Testing Framework'''
 +
** A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
 +
** Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
 +
** Martin has been looking at [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT] which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
 +
** (call had to be closed at this point)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''February 26, 2014''' - Alex, John, Martin, McQ
+
<strike>Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled</strike>
−
* John: '''Orion Release''' this week
+
−
 
+
−
* Alex: '''Eclipse on ARM64'''
+
−
** Launcher and swt at first
+
−
** Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
+
−
** John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
+
−
*** Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
+
−
*** At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
+
−
** Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
+
−
 
+
−
* Dani: Update on '''GTK 3+ issue''' - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
+
−
** Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
+
−
** McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
+
−
*** If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
+
−
*** Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
+
−
*** Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it
+
−
 
+
−
 
+
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''February 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
 
−
* Dani: '''Silenio to work on GTK issue?'''
 
−
* John: '''GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation'''
 
−
* John: '''e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools'''
 
−
** Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
 
−
** Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
 
−
** Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
 
−
** John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
 
−
** Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
 
−
*** If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
 
−
** Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''Jan 24, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
−
'''February 5, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
+
* Dani: '''New Jetty Version''' - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
−
* Dani: '''Confcall Numbers:''' Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
+
* Dani: '''javax.xml''' - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
−
* Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
+
** Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
−
* Alex: Testing on modern Linux
+
* Alex: '''[http://jboss-reddeer.github.io/reddeer/ Reddeer Testing Framework]'''
 +
** JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
 +
** Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
 +
*** Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
 +
*** API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
 +
** Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
 +
*** Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
 +
*** No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
 +
** Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT], it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
 +
** Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
 +
*** Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
 +
** Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
 +
** Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --&gt; Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
 +
*** Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
 +
*** '''AI Alex''' to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' to try installing Jubula until next week
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.
  
−
<hr/>
+
<hr>
−
'''January 22, 2014''' - John, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
'''Jan 17, 2017''' - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ
−
* John, Alex: '''New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora'''
+
* Sergey: '''Merging platform.resources with platform.ui'''
−
** Alex been looking at Browser
+
** Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
−
** Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
+
*** Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
−
** Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
+
** Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
−
*** Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
+
** Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
−
*** Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
+
** Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
−
* Dani: '''M5 Status'''
+
*** McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
−
** Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier
+
** Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
−
 
+
** Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even {{bug|509412}} was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
−
<hr/>
+
** Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
−
'''January 15, 2014''' - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin
+
** McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
−
* Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
+
* Lars: '''Removing javax.xml'''
−
* Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion
+
** Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
 +
** Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
 +
** Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
 +
** McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
 +
** Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
 +
**'''AI Lars''' send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
 +
* Dani: '''Project Updates'''
 +
** Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
 +
* McQ: '''UI Testing and Jubula'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''January 8, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ
+
'''Jan 10, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck
−
* Dani: '''API Freeze''' with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception
+
* Dani: '''Platform Bits on Maven Central''' - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
 +
* Dani: '''Board Committer Rep Elections''' opening
 +
* Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
 +
* Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
 +
* Lars: '''Equinox move to Platform''' - no updates - '''AI Dani''' talk to Tom again
 +
* McQ / AlexS: '''Jubula'''
 +
** In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
 +
** Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
 +
** Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
 +
** AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
 +
*** For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
 +
*** Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
 +
*** UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
 +
*** Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
 +
*** Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
 +
*** Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure ('''AI AlexS to check''')
 +
*** Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
 +
**** Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' send slides
 +
*** '''AI Dani + Lars''' propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]

Revision as of 11:36, 17 April 2018

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

April 17, 2018 - Dani, Alex, McQ

  • On Java 11...
    • We are actually shipping the javax annotation support
    • Java 11 is working in 4.8, but isn't in 4.7.x
      • Tom Watson is investigating why it is not working 4.7.x

April 10, 2018 - Tom, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Discussed bug 533390: Eclipse does not launch with Java 11

April 3, 2018 - Tom, Dani, Mcq, Lars

  • 4.7.3a update
    • Delivered RC2 on Saturday, so we could fix some badness in handling Java 10 "var" support (tl;dr: rename appeared to allow you to affect "var" as if it were a type (but would not have modified the code))
    • Currently think we're done
  • Naming milestones
    • As previously discussed, we will contribute the most recent I-build to the release train for the 3-week "M1".
    • We will call our first milestone (at the 6-week point) M2 so that it aligns with the release train naming.

March 27, 2018 - Tom, Dani, Mcq, Lars, Alex

  • Java packages for configured Java in workspace
    • Equinox no longer provides hard-coded information about execution environments. In the past this information was used at runtime for describing the running execution environment within the OSGi Framework. Other usecases outside the Framework started uses the Java profile data from Equinox. Equinox no longer has any need for the hard-coded information so no longer provides it.
    • JDT and PDE have come to depend on the internal resources of the framework to get hard-coded information about execution environments
    • JDT and PDE need to have a common way to figure out the available packages for Java versions >= Java 9
    • See 531642 532773
  • SWT clean-up
    • Lars reviewed the removal of Windows XP. Built binaries locally on Windows.
    • Found a form data issue deleted some code that was still used
    • Tom - Unit tests didn’t catch the issue. Concerning?

--> Update from Lars after the call: Later testing did show that this is a bug already existing in Eclipse. 4.7 and master and not related to the patch

    • Lars did review and test
    • Dani - put all the code in the branch and produce a build and ask windows community to test it
    • Mcq - thinks it is a good idea
    • Dani - create an official build for testing, not out of master with normal builds
    • Lars - what is the risk of putting in master
    • Dani - can do the build right away pre-CQ review approval. Allows for more quick testing.
    • Alex, no need for a branch, can be a developer build we publish. Alex will ask Leo to do this.
  • Jetty version
    • Jetty added non-optional dependencies on service-loader
    • Dani - got reverted, but old versions still caused Gerrit build issue
    • We don’t need the service-loader for our usage of jetty
    • jetty may be making a hard requirement on an implementation of server-loader (Aries spi-fly)
    • Can we move help off jetty? Will be a major undertaking. Should figure out what it would me to do so. Currently no interested contributer has stepped up to do the work to figure out what this would mean.
    • Equinox will still need jetty for the http service implementation. Perhaps things are more simple if this is an Equinox only dependency. Only pull in jetty if the http service implementation is needed and then pull in all of jetty and its dependencies.
    • No current plans or interested contributors for providing our own service-loader implementation.
    • Our build should start resolving the capabilities are requirements which would catch issues like this early in the build.
    • Alex - can we move latest tycho to get the capability/requirements meta-data. No objections? Alex will move forward.

March 20, 2018 - Dani, McQ, Tom, Lars, Alex

  • Dani: The IBM SWT team considers the Windows XP removal too risky and in addition has no capacity to look at that big change. Fine if someone else looks at the removal. The type changes will have to wait after Photon (too risky). Lars will ask Conrad and Alex will also look at the patches.
  • Databinding generification should be done early 4.9, too late for Photon.
  • Dani: Eclipse support for Java 10 will be merged to the official branches starting Wednesday. A Marketplace entry for 4.7.3 will be made available once 4.7.3 is released. The first official release with Java 10 support is 4.7.3a scheduled for April 11.

March 13, 2018 - Dani, McQ, Tom

  • Alex had troubles to join; Lars still in vacation
  • Dani: in the new release process we need to downgrade some milestones to "checkpoints" where we only deliver the bits
    • ACTION ITEM: Dani to start the discussion with the PMC via e-mail and then inform cross-project

March 6, 2018 - McQ, Tom, Alex

  • Short call without any interesting topics

February 27, 2018 - Lars, Dani, McQ, Tom, Alex

  • JDT support for new Java releases
    • McQ: With current change rate and OpenJDK process we can not promise Zero day compatibility but rather release as soon as possible
    • Dani: effort to try convincing Oracle to tell the features a release earlier and get easier access to OpenJDK community
  • Dropping XP support
    • Dani: no objection to drop it, the question is whether to do it for Photon or delay it for next release
    • Mail to be posted to cross project by Dani to gather feedback
    • Alex: 1 week for gathering input on cross-project - AGREED
    • If noone speaks up with reasonable reason to keep support - preapproved by Dani, Lars and Alex
    • To be formally voted after the mail to cross-project
  • Release names
    • Version only, release names are irrelevant from Eclipse TLP side - AGREED
  • Inactive committers pruning
    • Lars: no access to committer emails so sending just to the mailing list
    • Wait 2 months for reply before action
    • McQ: ask foundation to send direct mails on behalf of the project, if foundation is not fine - remove committers directly
    • Alex: only public replies to the mailing list are accepted so people wanting to remain committers at least follow the mailing list
  • Tip of the day -
    • Lars: CQ approved, to be merged today/tomorrow
    • Alex: we should have it part of the build and part of the p2 repo for easy testing
    • Dani: unclear APIs to be removed and to be simplified so we don't end up maintaining useless parts
  • GTK 2 vs. 4
    • Alex: Gtk 4 release aiming at late 2018, it's big change in drawing so conflicts with Gtk 2 badly
    • Alex: Gtk 2 support to be removed in future one of the next 2 releases, whether Sep or Dec to be discussed later in the Photon release train
    • Alex: mail to cross project list around Photon M7 or RC when more information on both Gtk 4 release plans and SWT bugs will be known
    • McQ: what is our statement on supported Gtk version?
    • Alex: Statement should be: Once SWT switches to latest Gtk version as default, support for previous versions goes into deep maintenance mode but will kept until it starts hurting new development and support for the default version at which point to be removed.
    • To be discussed further.


February 20, 2018 - Lars, Dani, McQ, Tom

  • Dani: Update on 4.7 RC3
  • Lars: Can we drop Windows XP support?
    • Lars: Big contribution comes in (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=531097), dropping XP support might be a good motiviation to contribute more also to other people. Removing lots of code including the version checks will also result in a cleaner code base for maintenance and might improve performance.
    • Dani: IBM investigate if they officially drop XP
    • Tom: Do we need support XP with the latest Eclipse version?

--> Pending on the answer of the IBM team, will be discussed in next weeks call

  • Tom: OSGI CQs updated and approved for OSGi Service Platform 7.0 version


February 6, 2018 - Lars, Dani, McQ

  • Lars: Can we mark MInput and MInputPart for deletion (bug 509868)?
    • Dani: Before approving to mark them for deletion, someone has to investigate how much work needs to be done to do it. Both have over 50 references.
      • McQ agrees
  • Dani: Topic on ui-best-practices-working-group list: Replace "..." with an ellipses Unicode character
    • Looks good on Mac and is actually used by Mac OS, but less good on Windows. No info regarding Linux at this time
    • McQ:
      • Mac OS UI guidelines specify to use the ellipses character
      • SWT could do the right thing depending on the platform
  • Lars: view menu, minimize and maximize buttons look bad to him. Would like to replace the view menu with ellipses
    • Dani: Would have to change all three together. View menu is always there and not indicating an overflow
    • McQ: Windows 10 also uses a triangle, but upwards. Current view menu is used and familiar to users for at least more than 10 years.
    • Lars to file a bug report and send the bug number to the PMC
  • McQ: Should discuss in one of the next meetings how JDT can handle the new release cadence for Java
    • Dani: We will see how it goes with Java 11 (18.3)
  • Dani: How will we name the milestones in our new new release scheme?
    • Consensus to start with M1 after each release.
    • Up to planning council to decide the release naming convention. Lars: Would prefer year/month


January 30, 2018 - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • General Updates (Dani)
    • Shipped M5, still working some p2 issues
    • RC1 for Neon.3 next week, may need API changes after the freeze for junit 5 support updates
    • Discussion about the incubation for Java. Ongoing thread in jdt-dev list https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/jdt-dev/msg00964.html. The incubation features will be part of the release specification which implies they need to be implemented to be compliant. Spend time putting them into a release only to pull out later if they don’t finalize. Not clear there are tests added to the TCK. Alex asks if this effects us for Java 10, no not for Java 10. Java 10 only has local type reference, not huge delta of function from Java 9. No incubation in Java 10. But incubation may affect us for Java 11.
  • Info about infrastructure (Alex)
    • Foundation push to move to Jenkins. Releng has moved, uncovered issues with rest API and token exchange … disabled for now for Jenkins. Issue is being worked but only can be fixed once all is moved to Jenkins.
    • Platform HIPP moving to Jenkins tomorrow. Will be some downtime, should be less than an hour or so. May cause several issue. Issues in non-standard jobs with multiple repos etc. For Gerrit verifications should be fine. Let Alex know if there are issues. Alex to send a note when the migration occurs.
    • p2 issue is real. Other issues are pressing (infrastucture/build). Todor has a bug that he should be looking at. Not something happening in the past, but now the capabilities are being resolved. Issues happened with a hand crafted p2.inf file. Hopefully will scope down the p2.inf files. Alex to drive to determine if a respin is needed.
    • Need to monitor the p2 issue, determine how many are broken. Cannot just break 100s of folks without serious consideration. Why not revert? Alex says it is not an option and we should do everything possible to fix.
    • Lars asks about nominating more committers, perhaps that were rejected in the past. Now the Eclipse PMC can overlook the nomination process. Work with existing contributors showing interest and look for opportunities to sponsor them for committership.
  • Tip of the day (Clippy)
    • See Tips Framework
    • Tip of the Day or (Clippy) in coming contribution … looking for integration M6?
    • Lars thinks it is worth it. Dani disables such things by default, and also Lars. Alex find the function interesting. Others are also reviewing the patch.
    • Lars is moving forward with it. If it is very easy to disable and is stable on all platforms then it should be good.
    • Is there a concern about a solution that requires network … it doesn’t appear to be a concern.

January 16, 2018 - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • Native builds at eclipse.org status (Lars):
    • Dani: swt is done for some time already
    • Dani: launchers after M5 is released to prevent breakage
  • GTK launcher changes (Alex):
    • Changes to not rely on X11 atoms but on dbus ready for review
    • Linux only as no other GTK platforms are currently built
  • Equinox CQs (Tom):
    • P2 capabilities patch from Todor and felix.scr update
    • Slow process risking M5
    • Alex: Ping Sharon asking for speedup if possible
  • Updates from Dani:
    • Photon plan update - BREE to be part of the build info
    • End game - Oxygen.3 and M5 - send to the list
    • Running tests against Java 9
  • Java 10 eclipse release (Dani):
    • Oxygen.3a or marketplace feature only - Agreement for oxygen.3a
    • Dani: Local Variable type inference support in a branch
    • Future releases - to be aligned with JVM releases if they prove to release on time
  • BREE updates recomendations
    • Dani: There are reasons to stay on older BREE
    • Alex: ease of getting jvm is the main concern here - if a contributor can't get jvm at that version easily we can't call it supported


Januar 09, 2018 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Updates from Dani:
    • Ian Skerrett is leaving the Eclipse foundation
    • Dani got nominated as committer representive
  • Planning council update
    • Dani: low participation in the last calls
    • Dani will talk with Melanie about it
    • Input required for the planning council for the API and feature freezes for the platform
  • API and feature freeze policy in platform
      • Alex: API and feature freeze in platform should be RC1, except breaking API which should be done in milestone build
      • everyone agrees to Alex suggestion-> agreed
  • Alex: SWT linux currently uses X-Windows specific API, which does not work on Wayland. This will be moved to a DBUS API to open file and open URL
  • Dani: Plan update, biggest change is for the component plan
    • Equinox plan has been added
    • Manual generated BREE list has been dropped from the plan. This list is still automatically generated for every I-Build
  • Launcher and natives build move from IBM to the foundation still in progress
    • (bug 528230) Build FileSystem native component on Eclipse Foundation Infra
    • (bug 528230) Build launcher on Eclipse Foundation Infra

December 12, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • P2 capabilities work breaking Oomph and CBI (bug 528408)
    • Alex: Hidden bug due to adopters using internals.
    • Alex: Code refactoring in p2 pushed to reduce the chance for such breakage.
    • Alex: Oomph fixed its codebase to properly check instances so it works with p2 both prior and after adding capabilities.
    • McQ: What do we do with p2?
    • Alex: Open up the project as much as we can and recruit new committers by being really welcoming to people.

-> Conclusion to not respin M4 due to this bug as it's internal API which projects should not have used.

  • Project plan update
    • Dani: No additional change came from anyone else in the PMC so update of executions environments and adding Java 9 are the only thing due.
  • Next meeting on January 9

December 05, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • Vacation: Dani will be in vacation end of week, so other PMC member need to cover for him if something comes up for M4.
  • Discussion about adding EGit to the SDK? (bug 528004)
    • Dani using a shared installed to manage the EGit plug-in.
    • McQ explains that he thinks EGit is required for a full package but does not feel strong about.
    • Alex: It depends what "SDK" means: SDK to develop plug-ins or SDK to develop Eclipse Platform. We agreed on the former.
    • Dani, Alex are against adding it because it adds maintaince burden and it is unclear which of the optional packages should be installed.
    • Tom, Lars have no strong opinions
    • All agree that managing to install this is an easy task

-> Conclusing to not include EGit in the SDK

  • URL handler registration of Eclipse with the OS
    • SAP plans to contribute a way to register Eclipse to certain URLs. If the user clicks on such a URL, Eclipse would open and be able to show the file. This could be useful for installation of new items in the marketplacen client https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=527579. VSCode allows this already vscode:extension/eamodio.gitlens.
    • Redhat had similar requirements in the past
    • Platform team expects that SAP will also maintain this contribution and take responsibility of it for future releases
    • Dani (after meeting): I think extending the current file based mechanism is OK, but we won't register any (including URL) handler

-> Conclusion to work on this enhancement together with SAP, Alex plans to dedicate some time for discussing the technical solution. SAP should open a new bug and link all related bugs to this top-level bug so that the technical details can be discussed

  • Discussion of building natives
    • moved building of SWT binaries for the 3 primary platforms to the Eclipse Foundation
    • unfortunately after that the Mac went down - fixed now
    • M4 SWT natives will be built on the Eclipse Foundation hardware
    • Launcher still to be moved

November 28, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Alex: Release Change announcement
    • Agreed that we won't mention the ramp-down process.
    • Agreed to add API removal details.
    • Still work in progress.
  • Dani: API Removal process for the new release model
  • Dani: Meeting notes
    • McQ suggested that who joins last has to do it. Dani: not so good since it won't contain the notes for the discussions that happened before.
    • Will do it based on rotation and ability to actually write down the notes.
    • Dani to do it for this call.
  • Dani: Photon plan update
    • Will add Java 9 as supported VM.
    • Anything else? If so, send Dani a note or update bug 527964
  • McQ: Rename Eclipse Project to Eclipse SDK
    • We should only do it when forced by the Foundation and/or Board
    • We would need a plan before starting such an effort.

November 14, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Tom

  • Dani:
    • Presented our new release model to Planning Council. Was welcomed. No objections. But needs discussion what the Release Train will do.
    • RC1 went well, RC2 this week.

November 07, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • For the 3 months releases, we have have a development freeze after RC1 until RC3. After RC3 master will be opened again for development. Development is possible until RC1, so this will result in a freeze period of approx. 2 weeks.
  • For releases versions of the platform we will use semantic versioning as before (4.8, 4.9, 4.10, ..)
  • Eclipse SDK will use versions not branding names unless the release train moves also the same cycle.
  • Splash will continue show the release year and month

October 31, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Martin, Alex,

  • Tom: Bugzilla Landing Page - EMO said both PMCs need to be contacted
    • Bug IDs, Equinox product and components remain in place, only the landing page will be updated
  • Dani: M3 Respin
    • Issue had been found by a team member, but got lost between different teams
    • Resolved and respun very fast, the fix is out now
  • Dani: Release Cycles and Java Alignment
    • Planning Council F2F meeting was at EclipseCon Europe; planning call will be on Thursday
    • Initially, felt like aligning with Java 18.3 was a good idea, but for now the plan is keeping the Oxygen SR rhythm and releasing Oxygen.3a aligned with Java
    • In case the Oracle release should slip, it will be most likely be named 18.4 (whatever month the release ends up in)
  • All: Platform Release Rhythm
    • At ECE, many people were surprised about changing release rhythm but the plan was generally appreciated
    • Should stick to the communicated Photon plan though and change only afterwards
    • Alex suggests promoting a Milestone build from master (properly marked up as such) aligned with the Java 18 release
      • This would promote master as something that can be used
      • After Photon, we will release 4 times from master - there won't be any maintenance builds any more
      • For the release train, there will also be release candidates.

October 24, 2017 - cancelled due to ECE

October 17, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars, Alex

  • Conf.system: Fallback to McQ's number is not a good solution (can't give out the moderator code)
    • Foundation (Denis) is aware of the problem, looking for a solution sooner than later
    • Skype group call, or zoom.us would work for Dani and McQ
  • Dani: bug 526065 Java 9 to Oxygen.1a beta update issue
    • Users who had the Java 9 beta installed and "update" to Oxygen.1a are broken
    • McQ: Updating from "beta" to "final" is not necessarily supposed to be working (Lars disagrees)
    • Not yet sure what's causing the issue .. p2 bug, or different groupID for Java9beta
    • Fix the issue if it looks like a real bug or easy to fix ... otherwise just post a message, preferredly on the Marketplace client (Dani: that part is done already)
  • Lars: Release Cycle Discussion
    • McQ still in favor of making every milestone a release
      • Alex thinks we're not there yet in terms of releng, there's still too many manual steps. Would prefer slower cadence (eg 3 months) until more automation is there (updating pom.xml, version mgmt, ...)
      • With 4 releases per year (like today) but no more maintenance branches/backports, there's potentially less work than today
      • Try starting with a release every 2nd milestone; fix automation; then strive for releasing every milestone.
      • Dani thinks the model shouldn't change in the middle of Photon; look for feedback then move to the new model next year
    • McQ: If we switch to the new model now (Oxygen.2), what do we lose?
      • Martin: Any bigger feature that would need to move into a branch? - Dani: Advanced Source Lookup
      • Dani: Also our rules about "no new features" and "PMC Approval" would need to change
      • Continue discussion in 2 weeks (skip next week due to EclipseCon)

October 10, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Oxygen.1a respin
    • Primary reason for respin was, that people who have existing XText installed would be broken when updating the Platform
    • Opportunity to piggy-back JDT critical fixes was welcome
  • Dani: Equinox Move - Review passed without objections, working on implementation now
    • Expecting less trouble than with the Platform and JDT merges recently
    • Foundation want to keep Equinox as a brand, therefore will be a subproject (beside Platform, JDT, PDE)
    • So to increase the committer base, the fast track option will now apply; also, more alignment in terms of PMC.
    • Confirmed again that we will ask Tom to join our PMC. Approval can be found in this thread.
  • Dani: Planning Council - Rolling Releases Update
    • Should remove some of the work maintaining 2 streams - simply release from master regularly
    • In the past, API breakage (migration guide) was allowed only once per year - how to deal with this moving forward
    • Handle with semantic versioning; how to give adopters sufficient time to adjust
    • There's usually 2 camps for every topic being discussed ... though practically, Platform sets the pace
    • Release Naming - New Name every quarter? Versioning scheme? (like 2017.4 or 17.04)
    • How to simplify processes (also in terms of IP), can the Foundation scale up? Perhaps not more work, but more deadlines
      • In terms of the Release Review, only the N&N and the Migration Guide are relevant; need to satisfy small and big consumers
  • Martin: Reddeer Contribution
    • When we last discussed this, it was an important criterion that any contributor can run the tests easily
    • Alex: Looks good, essentially boils down to running "mvn clean verify" in the PDE repo (or right-click > Run as Reddeer from the IDE) - AI Alex will have a video sent to the PMC list
  • Alex: API Removal in Context of Rolling Releases
    • Which Rules to apply for allowing removal of API; Allow removal in any release?
      • McQ: The real question is, how long it takes consumers to adopt to removal
      • Dani: Is more conservative regarding deletion - the value removing something is often smaller than the ripple it causes
      • McQ: If there is code in our codebase that significantly slows us down, it should be remove even if API
    • Martin: With more releases, there's less push to upgrade ; but will consumers know they are broken? - Semantic versioning should address that, but who really uses upper version ranges ... they have caused more pain than benefit in the past
    • Dani: In the past, with our 3-year deprecation plan, Major versions have not been updated even on announced removals...
    • McQ: If we are earnest about faster velocity, we have to fully adopt semantic versioning practices. If we as producers have done what we could, our job is done - consumers who don't use upper version ranges are on their own

October 3, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin

  • Conf system woes - Dani couldn't dial in, Denis restarted the bridge leaving Martin and Alex in a Zombie bridge
    • ACTION McQ will send out conf.details using IBM's bridge
  • bug 520720 Mickael's question on Performance improvement
    • Dani: There is already an asynchronous RequestLayout API for clients, and APIs already suggest clients use the async one
      • Therefore, changing the synchronous API to work asynchronously doesn't look right.
    • Alex: We seem to be mixing two aspects here -- agree regarding RequestLayout concerns, but why should the ProgressMonitor one be a problem?
      • Dani: Agree that the ProgressMonitor approach makes sense, but a very careful review is needed - existing code already subclasses ProgressMonitor, need to make sure that expected methods are still called
      • ACTION Dani will do a careful review of the ProgressMonitor part and deny the generic RequestLayout part
  • Dani: Equinox Restructuring request for the move is in, will work with Tom and Foundation forward
  • Dani: Oxygen.1a - RC2 is in for JUnit5 and Java9
    • Respin of Oxygen.1 for bug 520176 Mac 10.13 High Sierra problem? - Not currently planned, there will be 1a instead
    • A feature patch is another option, providing patched SWT; and, there's the workarounds
  • Dani: Rolling Release - 2 topics: rolling release, and alignment with Java Update Releases
    • Some projects on the train have alignment goals with other projects outside Java; will discuss again in the Planning Council
  • Alex: bug 522733 webkit crash - A workaround is available, in contact with webkit devs for a complete fix to keep Photon usable
    • Workaround would introduce a small memory leak, but only on the first instance of webkit created

September 26, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin

  • bug 520176 MacOSX 10.13 (High Sierra) Menus Disabled
    • Only non-English Locales are affected
    • For 4.7.1a and Photon, a fix is in
    • Foundation Press Release (Newsletter) is out with information how to work around
    • Tweets are around as well -- keep spreading the message
  • Equinox Move Review - progressing
  • Alex: bug 522733 GTK Crash on Close preventing IDE Restart - can it go into 4.7.1a ?
    • Seen with Fedora 27 (Webkitgtk 2.18)
    • Foundation wanted to keep Java9 stuff separate, so pushing it there might not even help
    • The issue is serious (hard crash preventing restart of the IDE), though fortunately not many people have that particular webkitgtk version yet
    • Investigate details and possible workarounds, then consider our options -- maybe a Foundation Newsletter similar to the OSX 10.13 issue

September 19, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Async APIs request from the eclipse-pmc list (not discussed today)
  • Lars: Java 6-month release cycles
    • Alex likes the 6 month idea - less backporting
    • McQ would ideally like full releases every 3 months (except not releasing anything unfinished)
    • Dani: If Java really delivers every 6 months (will they?), Eclipse could consider rolling releases every milestone. There is a doc from the Planning Council (Mélanie Bats) in that regard.
    • Dani: Support for the public JDKs will be limited to the current release only (6mo)
    • Risk: Oracle Java may be working on big features "in the background", if there is very little time adopting new features (current license doesn't allow releasing stuff built on Beta's) it's hard for Eclipse to keep up
    • Lars: Some teams already moving to Kotlin...
    • Dani: More discusssions planned at ECE, AC etc
    • AGREEMENT to wait for now for (a) the Planning Council announcement and (b) how Java will actually implement and live up to their plans. Work towards faster release cycles (that's a good message to the consumers anyways).
    • Will need to work on details. If there's more releases, and each one needs a review, it's more work on release records and reviews. Already on a good path here, paperwork reduced to a matter of an hour.
  • Dani: Java 9 (Oxygen.1a) round the door. Plan is a full release.
  • McQ: bug 520176 MacOS 10.13 menubar issue people at Apple are also looking at it. Biggest problem is that it's not 100% reproducible. Might end up with some System Properties to be set to resolve the problem.

September 12, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Dani

  • Dani asked Alex to look into bug 517063 with high prio. We need this for M2.
  • Dani: sub-project merge
    • McQ and Lars approved my message regarding sub-project. Will send out the note today.
    • Still an issue with IP log not being merged
    • Release engineers can no longer restart the HIPPs
  • Started to discuss Advise for performance enhancement making API methods behave async
    • We need more time to verify the fix and look at the patch. Will discuss and decide next week.

September 5, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Martin

  • Alex: bug 521639 Mac Signing Issues for Oxygen.1
    • 3 requests out of 5 failing, don't know yet why - webmasters assume hardware issues, trying to move to a different machine
    • RC4:
      • Security fix in p2 (bug 518031)
      • Changes in Releng scripts to run tests on different Mac machine

August 29, 2017 - McQ, Dani, Martin

  • All: Conference System Woes - 3 tries for McQ (race conditions?), 2 tries for Martin (silence first), 10 tries for Dani
  • Dani: Subproject Merge done after some hiccups, no complaints since Fri
    • Subprojects are now "archived" with a comment that they got merged into the parent project
    • AI Dani planning to send another notification to mailing lists:
      • former PLs to become Repo Maintainers responsible for signoff and planning
      • Bugzilla remaining the same
      • Some former subproject leads already stepped up as combined project co-leads (Lars, Lakshmi, Sarika)
    • McQ: Move forward towards the new structure, but there's also need to push for responsibility among the subcomponents (finding go-to persons...)
  • Dani: StyledText improvement request on the ML (Pluggable selection model)
    • point to the e4 incubator for experiments, encourage innovation though might be quite hard and pervasive
  • RC3 looking good (except for build issues on the Foundation side, no I-Build since Aug.22 - Mac DMG is at risk for RC3)
  • Dani away next week, please watch the list for approvals towards RC4 next week

August 22, 2017 - Alex, Dani, Martin

  • All: Conference System Woes - Dani had 7 minutes trouble dialing in; Alex was kicked out
  • Dani: Plan - AI Martin review
    • Target Platform reduced - removed too much? - and Subproject plans. Rest is copy-and-paste.
  • Dani: Subproject Merge - Everything approved, waiting for implementation by EMO.
  • Dani: RC2 this week - Still many Platform/UI bugs, Dani will make a pass moving out since Lars is on vacation
  • Martin: feature/bundle version issues
    • Dani: Checking versions is quite time consuming, there's no tooling solution for the workspace right now (but there are reports).
    • For branding bundles and features, rules are different than for others - Dani currently doing those, since few people have access
    • Currently we're looking good, but automation would be better than manual nagging

August 15, 2017 - Alex, Dani

  • Dani: subproject merge initiated - waiting for webmasters
  • Dani: Provided Photon (4.8) release record and plan - please provide comments
  • Alex and Dani discussed feature/bundle version issues - next builds should be better

August 8, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani

  • Eclipse Asterisk system is not working reliably (again). It took Dani 6 minutes until he could dial in (using the Swiss number - US number failed repeatedly). McQ can't dial in until 10 min later.
  • Dani: starting the planning record for Photon to announce participation in M1
    • Toplevel items: JUnit5, Java9. Subplans on the Wiki.
  • Dani: subproject merge - wanted to wait for M1, but should be done this week
  • Alex: ppc64be - Sravan is waiting on final decision whether it will be removed in Photon
    • Dani: PMC decision was settled, so removed from Eclipse plan - IBM might still continue building it for internal use

August 1, 2017 - no call

July 25, 2017 - Alex, Lars, Dani

  • project merge got go, Dani to implement it with webmaster and then send out the announcement this or next week. E-mail will also mention that existing project leads can become co-leads on Eclipse Platform
  • Discussion if CVS should be removed from the SDK build, Alex +1, Lars +1, Dani +1
  • Discussion if the remaining 2.0 compatibility layer can be removed, Dani: OK to remove but other plug-ins might still have dependencies to it, must the also updated, as well as the documentation

July 18, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • project merge review awaiting go from Wayne - Dani pinged again in the bug report
  • Dani will kick off planning for Photon a bit earlier since he will be in Bangalore the next 12 days. Platform UI already started.
  • M1 on August 11

July 11, 2017 - no meeting

July 4, 2017 - no meeting

June 27, 2017 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Equinox Merge to the Eclipse TLP
    • Keep Equinox as a separate Project, to allow independent Equinox releases without Platform (and keep Bugzilla simple)
    • The only argument for stronger integration would be getting more committers, but there is no strong need and we have the FastTrack process in place for that
  • Eclipse Merge of Component (Sub)Projects into Platform
    • Just 4 Projects: Platform, Equinox, JDT, PDE (plus the incubators for e4 and JDT)
    • Former (Sub)Project Leads to become "Component Leads", "Technology Owners" or "Repository Owners"
      • Repository Ownership is appealing as the structure is very clear (+1 Dani,Alex,McQ)
    • Platform Lead initially Dani, more Co-Leads could step up if they want
      • Main work is helping component leads if they can't come to a consensus - usually less work than PMC duties
  • Dani: JSR 376 Ballot
    • Public review reconsideration ballot got approved by all except Red Hat who abstained
    • Much progress in the past weeks, consensus except RH abstained
    • Looks like the OOBE of Java9 would tolerate reflection, currently looks like on track for a September Release
  • Vacations many people will be off next week, especially in the U.S.
    • PMC call will be skipped next week

June 20, 2017 - MQ, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Attracting new contributors discussions - code cleanup and deletion of old paths needed
    • Alex: Big issue to get people working on codebase and considering many now irrelevant paths in the codebase
    • Dani: Cleanups should be done by the one starting them through the whole SDK
    • Lars: Not feasible as some projects are slower pace moving and the change might require more effort than one can or is willing to spend in his free time
    • Alex: Great opportunity to have new people joining by doing simple tasks and grow them into full committers
    • McQ: We have to come up with list of items we would like to get cleaned and properly follow our deprecation policy even if the migration guide for Photon get really big with things we schedule for removal in the future.
  • Dani: Sub-projects merge
    • Name of the new project - McQ: Everyone refers to it as Platform so natural choice it is
    • JDT, PDE, Platform (subprojects) to become single project
    • Person responsible for some code area in the merged project - to be further dicussed
  • Dani: Dropping Xulrunner support - PMC to approve it in the bug

Juni 13, 2017 - MQ, Dani, Lars

  • Dani: Release review for 4.7 was successful
  • Dani: Rebuild for 4.7RCa required due to new EMF version and a fix for a critical bug which resulted in duplicated menu entries
  • Merge of the sub-projects
    • Planned for M1, desired to be coordinated with the move of Equinox to Platform
    • We prefer to keep the project pages and wikis so that all the information is kept
    • Preferable we want to have one committer list for Eclipse platform
    • Dani to check with foundation how the merge can be done

May 30, 2017 - Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Dani: Please approve or disapprove the release review
  • Dani: Starting the Debugger doesn't work always
    • Occurs for Lars, but isn't reproducible - one of the top 3 things to fix if steps to reproduce are found
    • Lars: Equinox replaced the DS implementation in 4.7, the issue is probably related
    • Failure is totally random: On a very slow Virtual Machine, it failed almost always (9 failures out of 10); on other machine it works most of the time; even after working fine 3 times, it may fail the 4th time; seems to occur more frequently on older machines than newer ones.
    • Martin: try with a reverse debugger like Chronon ?
      • Should help by just collecting a log; and when the failure occurs, "play back" the log to understand under what condition the race condition occurs; the a reproducible case is available, and the log can also be sent around between different developers for investigation, potentiall also to Apache Felix upstream
  • Dani: Equinox Launcher Issues
    • During M7, a change was made to ignore certain command-line arguments
    • This caused 2 regressions - bug 517013 and bug 516349 MacOSX restart regression
    • Java 9 will probably change the parameters again, see bug 516911 :(
    • It's getting too late to make any more changes to the Launcher. Re-compiling on different hardware has already caused bug 517013, it's possible that more issues (not yet known) might be caused by the rebuild. With Java 9 probably changing again, we don't win much by rebuilding to try and align with something that's not yet released.
      • Option A: Put options into the eclipse.ini -- today it works for both Java 8 and Java 9
      • Option B: Add the "probably proposed" new option to the launcher, will need to rebuild the launcher again
      • Option C: Revert the launcher to what it was before (and well tested) back to M6 - for running with Java 9, the options have to be added manually
    • Users will have to read on a webpage what needs to be done for Java 9 launching; for Eclipse SDK, a single option is needed - some add-on components
      • Additional complexity: Different JVMs need different options (IBM, Oracle...)
      • Martin: bug 517452 Introduce a fallback mechanism to the launcher, which reads the Java ID and loads 'eclipse-javaID.ini' with a fallback to 'eclipse.ini', but does not seem reasonable for Oxygen since too late
      • Better to have a clean story: At IBM, the entire build environment changed ... reverting gets us back to a bullet-proof launcher that was tested for 7 milestones ... will work safely with Java 8, for Java 9 people will have to read the N&N or StackOverflow to find out about the right arguments - same as in Neon
  • AGREEMENT to revert the Launcher to the M6 version

May 23, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: Apache Batik XXE Vulnerability
    • Alex: Moving to Batik 1.9 would be good, but there is so much UI breakage that it's not viable for Oxygen
  • Martin: Bugs discovered during RC test cycle
    • Surprised that some low-priority issues do get attention (bug 517108) while others get no response at all (bug 517013
    • Dani: Only interested in severe issues and regressions - send message to platform-releng-dev with severe regressions found
    • Dani: Please +1 the Gerrit for bug 517108

May 16, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
    • Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
  • bug 509922 Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
    • Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
    • Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
  • Test failures: Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
    • Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
    • CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
    • UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
  • bug 516114 Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
    • Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
    • The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
    • That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
    • Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
      • The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
    • AGREEMENT: In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
      • Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
      • McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
  • Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
  • Alex: Project Structure
    • Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
    • Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
    • In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
    • Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
    • McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
    • Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
    • AGREEMENT to move forward on this, with a Platform Leadership group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.

May 9, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: JSR376 Jigsaw: 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
    • From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
    • JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
    • For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
    • JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
  • Dani: M7/RC0 - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
    • When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
      1. Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
      2. Section forms layout
  • Dani: httpcore 4.4.1 -> 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility
    • Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
    • People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
    • Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
    • Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
    • Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
    • AGREEMENT to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
  • Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
  • Dani: Release Review, does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
    • All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
    • McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
    • Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
    • Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
    • AGREEMENT to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.

May 2, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Lars: Regex Evaluator Plugin
    • Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
    • Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
    • McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
    • AGREEMENT to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
  • Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
  • Dani: JSR Jigsaw Ballot
    • Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard

Apr 25, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Neon.3a
    • Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
      • AI Alex tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
      • Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem

Apr 18, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Dani: RH and Java9 Jigsaw
    • Very good write-up linked from the AC Mailinglist - see also follow-up
    • Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
  • Dani: Neon.3 Respin
    • Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
  • Lars: Glance Migration to e4 and/or Platform
    • e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
  • Lars
    • JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache

Apr 11, 2017 - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
  • Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.

Apr 04, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Martin: bug 514257 and cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue
    • Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
    • Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
    • Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
      • Commons Logging is not a Singleton
    • Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
  • Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
  • Dani: PPC - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week

Mar 28, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Replacement for Sergey
    • let's wait and see how things go
    • next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
  • Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
    • all agree
    • McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
  • Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
  • Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)

Mar 21, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Dirk Fauth Requests on eclipse-pmc
    • Alex agrees with Dani
    • Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
    • Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
  • Dani: Szymon Ptasiewicz

Mar 14, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Java 9 readiness - see cross-project-issues-dev
    • Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
      • Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
    • Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the Java 9 Readiness wiki can show violations
      • Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
      • Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
    • Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
    • All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
      • This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
    • Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
  • Dani: JUnit 5 considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
    • Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
  • Dani: 2 Platform Issues in M6
    • platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
    • major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
      • In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
      • In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
  • Alex: Generic Editor and Testing
    • Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
    • Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
    • Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
    • In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"

Mar 7, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars

  • Dani: 4.6.3 Updates - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
  • Dani: 4.7M7 Update - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
  • Dani: Java 9 / Planning Council Update - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
  • Lars: Platform.Resources Leadership after Sergey Leaving
    • Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
    • Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
    • Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
    • Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
    • Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept

Feb 28, 2017 - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Alex: Short update on Neon.3
    • 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
    • PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
  • Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
  • Martin: RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing

Feb 21, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey

  • Lars: bug 512273 Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and bug 512319 allow rebase
    • Agreement to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
    • Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
    • AI Lars follow up on the bug
  • Martin: UI Testing
    • RCPTT is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
    • Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
    • When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
    • Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
    • Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
      • Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
    • AI Martin follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
    • AI Alex share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
    • AI Lars play with the Reddeer API
  • Dani: Update on PPC drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs bug 512224
    • Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm AI Alex and Dani ask Denis
  • Dani: Neon.3 RC3 please keep an eye on builds
  • Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week

Feb 15, 2017

Feb 8, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: bug 509412 - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
    • Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
    • Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
    • Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
    • Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
  • Dani: Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform
    • Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
    • Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
  • Dani: Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server
    • Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
  • Dani: Scenarios for UI Testing
    • Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
  • Dani: Sign Up for Security Rep
    • See Wayne's message to PMCs requesting PMC attendance
    • John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
    • Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
    • RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up since already following security issues
  • Dani+Alex: libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC
    • Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
    • Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
    • Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
    • Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
    • Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
    • If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
    • AI Dani+McQ find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
  • Alex: Update on Reddeer Testing Framework
    • A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
    • Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
    • Martin has been looking at RCPTT which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
    • (call had to be closed at this point)

Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled

Jan 24, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: New Jetty Version - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
  • Dani: javax.xml - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
    • Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
  • Alex: Reddeer Testing Framework
    • JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
    • Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
      • Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
      • API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
    • Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
      • Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
      • No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
    • Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about RCPTT, it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
    • Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
      • Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
    • Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
    • Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --> Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
      • Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
      • AI Alex to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
      • AI Martin to try installing Jubula until next week
      • AI Martin ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.

Jan 17, 2017 - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ

  • Sergey: Merging platform.resources with platform.ui
    • Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
      • Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
    • Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
    • Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
    • Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
      • McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
    • Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
    • Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even bug 509412 was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
    • Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
    • McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
  • Lars: Removing javax.xml
    • Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
    • Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
    • Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
    • McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
    • Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
    • AI Lars send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
  • Dani: Project Updates
    • Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
  • McQ: UI Testing and Jubula

Jan 10, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck

  • Dani: Platform Bits on Maven Central - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
  • Dani: Board Committer Rep Elections opening
  • Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
  • Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
  • Lars: Equinox move to Platform - no updates - AI Dani talk to Tom again
  • McQ / AlexS: Jubula
    • In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
    • Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
    • Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
    • AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
      • For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
      • Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
      • UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
      • Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
      • Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
      • Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure (AI AlexS to check)
      • Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
        • Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
      • AI AlexS send slides
      • AI Dani + Lars propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
      • AI AlexS check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started

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