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= Documents =
 
= Documents =
−
 
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
  
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= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
−
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 +
'''February 20, 2018''' - Lars, Dani, McQ, Tom
  
−
'''Sep 29, 2010:''' - Dani, John, Martin, Jeff
+
* Dani: Update on 4.7 RC3
−
* John: UNIX groups - ongoing, now with Webmaster
+
* Lars: Can we drop Windows XP support?
−
* John: Parts of e4 project now moving to git - may pave the way for more git on Eclipse later on
+
** Lars: Big contribution comes in (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=531097), dropping XP support might be a good motiviation to contribute more also to other people. Removing lots of code including the version checks will also result in a cleaner code base for maintenance and might improve performance.
−
** PDE Build Fetch factory for git currently exists as a patch on a bug, should live in egit
+
** Dani: IBM investigate if they officially drop XP
−
* Jeff: Download page - Cluttered and hard to navigate - {{bug|326444}} for Equinox: too many columns, too much text
+
** Tom: Do we need support XP with the latest Eclipse version?
−
** Make it easier to find "the latest"; update the look to be more consistent with main web pages
+
--> Pending on the answer of the IBM team, will be discussed in next weeks call
−
** Most people just get the SDK, or the SWT downloads
+
* Tom: OSGI CQs updated and approved for OSGi Service Platform 7.0 version
−
** '''AI''' File bug for discussion
+
  
−
'''Sep 22, 2010:''' - Dani, Jeff, Martin, John
 
−
* John: 3.7 -> 4.1 EPP upgrade - idea is to just upgrade the Platform (not a long-term, but interim idea)
 
−
** Goal is increasing the usage of 4.1, without further producing full EPP's
 
−
* Dani: How to move forward with UNIX group restructuring
 
−
** Wait for the build.e.o problems to get resolved, then John to follow up with Denis (via the discussion bug), once there is a concrete suggestion of what is desired in terms of ACL's
 
−
* John: M2a rebuild - anything we can do to reduce the chance of getting such bugs in the future?
 
−
** No-Reference analysis warnings were turned off in the past since there were too many false positives
 
−
** Dani - Bytecode are independent of warnings, there's really 2 issues:
 
−
*** (a) compiler only changed every 6 weeks, earlier compiler adoption would have found this earlier
 
−
*** (b) bytecode comparison after builds ?
 
−
*** John: using the new p2 every week turned out to be too volatile (but compiler may be more stable)
 
−
**** Goal of updating basebuilder more often would be adding "compile Eclipse" as a big testcase for the compiler
 
−
** '''AI John''' to discuss with Kim
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''February 6, 2018''' - Lars, Dani, McQ
−
'''Sep 15, 2010:''' - Dani, Jeff, McQ, John
+
* Lars: Can we mark MInput and MInputPart for deletion ({{bug|509868}})?
−
* Moving up to ICU4J 4.6 which requires Java 5
+
** Dani: Before approving to mark them for deletion, someone has to investigate how much work needs to be done to do it. Both have over 50 references.
−
** We are stuck on old version of ICU4J unless we can move to Java 5
+
*** McQ agrees
−
** We previously agreed moving to Java 5 is ok - no complaints here
+
* Dani: [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ui-best-practices-working-group/msg00743.html Topic on ui-best-practices-working-group list]: Replace "..." with an ellipses Unicode character
−
** Need to document the steps for someone running RCP on Foundation 1.1 - have to switch to older version of ICU4J
+
** Looks good on Mac and is actually used by Mac OS, but less good on Windows. No info regarding Linux at this time
−
** This will enable us to consume future ICU4J versions that may be able to split large timezone data into a separately consumable piece.
+
** McQ:
−
* Unix groups
+
*** Mac OS UI guidelines specify to use the ellipses character
−
** Preference is to avoid multiple votes
+
*** SWT could do the right thing depending on the platform
−
** Try to use ACLs to enable multiple groups for some directories
+
* Lars: view menu, minimize and maximize buttons look bad to him. Would like to replace the view menu with ellipses
−
** If this is too complex, then have two groups but not expose two votes. I.e., when a committer is approved, we need to tell webmasters to add "common" along with whatever component they are being added to.
+
** Dani: Would have to change all three together. View menu is always there and not indicating an overflow
−
* Release train and 3.7/4.1 split
+
** McQ: Windows 10 also uses a triangle, but upwards. Current view menu is used and familiar to users for at least more than 10 years.
−
** Planning council working out how to handle 3.7/4.1 split
+
** Lars to file a bug report and send the bug number to the PMC
−
** Some argued that having 4.1 EPP packages would greatly improve adoption
+
* McQ: Should discuss in one of the next meetings how JDT can handle the new release cadence for Java
−
** Being able to "one click" upgrade from 3.7->4.1 EPP not too bad and greatly reduces dis/mirror footprint (for example a link in welcome page)
+
** Dani: We will see how it goes with Java 11 (18.3)
 +
* Dani: How will we name the milestones in our new new release scheme?
 +
** Consensus to start with M1 after each release.
 +
** Up to planning council to decide the release naming convention. Lars: Would prefer year/month
  
−
<hr/>
 
  
−
'''Sep 8, 2010:''' - John, Jeff, McQ
+
'''January 30, 2018''' - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom
−
* Discussed reception of 4.0 release.
+
* General Updates (Dani)
−
** We probably overdid the caution and it appears to be getting very little use
+
** Shipped M5, still working some p2 issues
−
** Will encourage Eclipse project developers to use 4.1 builds to help find and iron out bugs
+
** RC1 for Neon.3 next week, may need API changes after the freeze for junit 5 support updates
−
* Discussed [[Eclipse/PMC/Unix Groups]] again
+
** Discussion about the incubation for Java.  Ongoing thread in jdt-dev list https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/jdt-dev/msg00964.html.  The incubation features will be part of the release specification which implies they need to be implemented to be compliant. Spend time putting them into a release only to pull out later if they don’t finalize.  Not clear there are tests added to the TCK.  Alex asks if this effects us for Java 10, no not for Java 10.  Java 10 only has local type reference, not huge delta of function from Java 9.  No incubation in Java 10.  But incubation may affect us for Java 11.
−
** Need to resolve with webmasters how to handle "common" things. Entered {{bug|324772}} to iron out details with web master
+
* Info about infrastructure (Alex)
−
* John asked for input on draft Indigo plan
+
** Foundation push to move to Jenkins. Releng has moved, uncovered issues with rest API and token exchange … disabled for now for Jenkins.  Issue is being worked but only can be fixed once all is moved to Jenkins.
−
* Discussed how to better handle ECF contributions
+
** Platform HIPP moving to Jenkins tomorrow.  Will be some downtime, should be less than an hour or so.  May cause several issue.  Issues in non-standard jobs with multiple repos etc.  For Gerrit verifications should be fine.  Let Alex know if there are issues.  Alex to send a note when the migration occurs.
−
** Either ECF needs to be done earlier, or we have to live with our dates slipping
+
** p2 issue is real.  Other issues are pressing (infrastucture/build).  Todor has a bug that he should be looking at.  Not something happening in the past, but now the capabilities are being resolved.  Issues happened with a hand crafted p2.inf file.  Hopefully will scope down the p2.inf files.  Alex to drive to determine if a respin is needed.
−
** Need to work together to see if we can improve contribution process
+
** Need to monitor the p2 issue, determine how many are broken.  Cannot just break 100s of folks without serious consideration.  Why not revert?  Alex says it is not an option and we should do everything possible to fix.
−
** We need to at least make sure they are in the loop on our build and end-game schedules
+
** Lars asks about nominating more committers, perhaps that were rejected in the past.  Now the Eclipse PMC can overlook the nomination process.  Work with existing contributors showing interest and look for opportunities to sponsor them for committership.
−
* Jeff mentioned target platform management in PDE has a few holes. Will have a follow-up call to dive into details with PDE committers.
+
* Tip of the day (Clippy)
 +
** See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-ui-dev/msg08006.html Tips Framework]
 +
** Tip of the Day or (Clippy) in coming contribution … looking for integration M6?
 +
** Lars thinks it is worth it. Dani disables such things by default, and also Lars.  Alex find the function interesting.  Others are also reviewing the patch. 
 +
** Lars is moving forward with it.  If it is very easy to disable and is stable on all platforms then it should be good.
 +
** Is there a concern about a solution that requires network … it doesn’t appear to be a concern.
  
 +
'''January 16, 2018''' - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom
 +
* Native builds at eclipse.org status (Lars):
 +
** Dani: swt is done for some time already
 +
** Dani: launchers after M5 is released to prevent breakage
 +
* GTK launcher changes (Alex):
 +
** Changes to not rely on X11 atoms but on dbus ready for review
 +
** Linux only as no other GTK platforms are currently built
 +
* Equinox CQs (Tom):
 +
** P2 capabilities patch from Todor and felix.scr update
 +
** Slow process risking M5
 +
** Alex: Ping Sharon asking for speedup if possible
 +
* Updates from Dani:
 +
** Photon plan update - BREE to be part of the build info
 +
** End game - Oxygen.3 and M5 - send to the list
 +
** Running tests against Java 9
 +
* Java 10 eclipse release (Dani):
 +
** Oxygen.3a or marketplace feature only - Agreement for oxygen.3a
 +
** Dani: Local Variable type inference support in a branch
 +
** Future releases - to be aligned with JVM releases if they prove to release on time
 +
* BREE updates recomendations
 +
** Dani: There are reasons to stay on older BREE
 +
** Alex: ease of getting jvm is the main concern here - if a contributor can't get jvm at that version easily we can't call it supported
  
−
<hr/>
 
  
−
'''Sep 1, 2010:''' - John, Jeff, Dani
+
'''Januar 09, 2018''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
−
* Discussed [[Eclipse/PMC/Unix Groups]]
+
* Updates from Dani:
−
** Agreed with general direction about greatly reducing number of groups
+
** Ian Skerrett is leaving the Eclipse foundation
−
** Dani proposed some changes to text and search components, which have since been incorporated into the doc
+
** Dani got nominated as committer representive
 +
* Planning council update
 +
** Dani: low participation in the last calls
 +
** Dani will talk with Melanie about it
 +
** Input  required for the planning council for the API and feature freezes for the platform
 +
* API and feature freeze policy in platform
 +
*** Alex: API and feature freeze in platform should be RC1, except breaking API which should be done in milestone build
 +
*** everyone agrees to Alex suggestion-> agreed
 +
* Alex: SWT linux currently uses X-Windows specific API, which does not work on Wayland. This will be moved to a DBUS API to open file and open URL
 +
* Dani: Plan update, biggest change is for the component plan
 +
** Equinox plan has been added
 +
** Manual generated BREE list has been dropped from the plan. This list is still automatically generated for every I-Build
 +
* Launcher and natives build move from IBM to the foundation still in progress
 +
** ({{bug|528230}}) Build FileSystem native component on Eclipse Foundation Infra
 +
** ({{bug|528230}}) Build launcher on Eclipse Foundation Infra
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''December 12, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom
 +
* P2 capabilities work breaking Oomph and CBI ({{bug|528408}})
 +
** Alex: Hidden bug due to adopters using internals.
 +
** Alex: Code refactoring in p2 pushed to reduce the chance for such breakage.
 +
** Alex: Oomph fixed its codebase to properly check instances so it works with p2 both prior and after adding capabilities.
 +
** McQ: What do we do with p2?
 +
** Alex: Open up the project as much as we can and recruit new committers by being really welcoming to people.
 +
 
 +
-> Conclusion to not respin M4 due to this bug as it's internal API which projects should not have used.
 +
 
 +
* Project plan update
 +
** Dani: No additional change came from anyone else in the PMC so update of executions environments and adding Java 9 are the only thing due.
 +
* Next meeting on January 9
 +
 
 +
'''December 05, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom
 +
* Vacation: Dani will be in vacation end of week, so other PMC member need to cover for him if something comes up for M4.
 +
 
 +
* Discussion about adding EGit to the SDK? ({{bug|528004}})
 +
** Dani using a shared installed to manage the EGit plug-in.
 +
** McQ explains that he thinks EGit is required for a full package but does not feel strong about.
 +
** Alex: It depends what "SDK" means: SDK to develop plug-ins or SDK to develop Eclipse Platform. We agreed on the former.
 +
** Dani, Alex are against adding it because it adds maintaince burden and it is unclear which of the optional packages should be installed.
 +
** Tom, Lars have no strong opinions
 +
** All agree that managing to install this is an easy task
 +
 
 +
-> Conclusing to not include EGit in the SDK
 +
 
 +
* Impact of cross discussion from David about API changes in which David implied that the platform cannot do API breakages
 +
** Dani clarified with David on the cross-mailing list, no changes for us for the process, as we only remove announced. See https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev/msg15032.html
 +
 
 +
* URL handler registration of Eclipse with the OS
 +
** SAP plans to contribute a way to register Eclipse to certain URLs. If the user clicks on such a URL, Eclipse would open and be able to show the file. This could be useful for installation of new items in the marketplacen client https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=527579. VSCode allows this already vscode:extension/eamodio.gitlens.
 +
** Redhat had similar requirements in the past
 +
** Platform team expects that SAP will also maintain this contribution and take responsibility of it for future releases
 +
** Dani (after meeting): I think extending the current file based mechanism is OK, but we won't register any (including URL) handler
 +
 
 +
-> Conclusion to work on this enhancement together with SAP, Alex plans to dedicate some time for discussing the technical solution. SAP should open a new bug and link all related bugs to this top-level bug so that the technical details can be discussed
 +
 
 +
* Discussion of building natives
 +
** moved building of SWT binaries for the 3 primary platforms to the Eclipse Foundation
 +
** unfortunately after that the Mac went down - fixed now
 +
** M4 SWT natives will be built on the Eclipse Foundation hardware
 +
** Launcher still to be moved
 +
 
 +
'''November 28, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
 +
* Alex: Release Change announcement
 +
** Agreed that we won't mention the ramp-down process.
 +
** Agreed to add API removal details.
 +
** Still work in progress.
 +
* Dani: API Removal process for the new release model
 +
** Agreed to allow removal announcement in ever of the 4 releases. As a consequence every release can have API removals.
 +
** https://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse/API_Central/Deprecation_Policy already reflects this.
 +
* Dani: Meeting notes
 +
** McQ suggested that who joins last has to do it. Dani: not so good since it won't contain the notes for the discussions that happened before.
 +
** Will do it based on rotation and ability to actually write down the notes.
 +
** Dani to do it for this call.
 +
* Dani: Photon plan update
 +
** Will add Java 9 as supported VM.
 +
** Anything else? If so, send Dani a note or update {{bug|527964}}
 +
* McQ: Rename Eclipse Project to Eclipse SDK
 +
** We should only do it when forced by the Foundation and/or Board
 +
** We would need a plan before starting such an effort.
 +
 
 +
'''November 14, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Tom
 +
* Dani:
 +
** Presented our new release model to Planning Council. Was welcomed. No objections. But needs discussion what the Release Train will do.
 +
** RC1 went well, RC2 this week.
 +
 
 +
'''November 07, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars
 +
* For the 3 months releases, we have have a development freeze after RC1 until RC3. After RC3 master will be opened again for development. Development is possible until RC1, so this will result in a freeze period of approx. 2 weeks.
 +
* For releases versions of the platform we will use semantic versioning as before (4.8, 4.9, 4.10, ..)
 +
* Eclipse SDK will use versions not branding names unless the release train moves also the same cycle.
 +
* Splash will continue show the release year and month
 +
 
 +
'''October 31, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Alex,
 +
* Tom: '''Bugzilla Landing Page''' - EMO said both PMCs need to be contacted
 +
** Bug IDs, Equinox product and components remain in place, only the landing page will be updated
 +
* Dani: '''M3 Respin'''
 +
** Issue had been found by a team member, but got lost between different teams
 +
** Resolved and respun very fast, the fix is out now
 +
* Dani: '''Release Cycles and Java Alignment'''
 +
** Planning Council F2F meeting was at EclipseCon Europe; planning call will be on Thursday
 +
** Initially, felt like aligning with Java 18.3 was a good idea, but for now the plan is keeping the Oxygen SR rhythm and releasing Oxygen.3a aligned with Java
 +
** In case the Oracle release should slip, it will be most likely be named 18.4 (whatever month the release ends up in)
 +
* All: '''Platform Release Rhythm'''
 +
** At ECE, many people were surprised about changing release rhythm but the plan was generally appreciated
 +
** Should stick to the communicated Photon plan though and change only afterwards
 +
** Alex suggests promoting a Milestone build from master (properly marked up as such) aligned with the Java 18 release
 +
*** This would promote master as something that can be used
 +
*** After Photon, we will release 4 times from master - there won't be any maintenance builds any more
 +
*** For the release train, there will also be release candidates.
  
−
'''Aug 25, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin
+
<strike>October 24, 2017 - cancelled due to ECE</strike>
−
* Dani - 3.6.1 looks ok - no other topics
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Aug 18, 2010:''' - Dani, John, Martin
+
'''October 17, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars, Alex
−
* John - '''Eclipse 3.x and 4.0''' and the Release Train
+
* '''Conf.system:''' Fallback to McQ's number is not a good solution (can't give out the moderator code)
−
** Early feedback from 4.0 adopters is that most stuff actually works when dropping in binaries (talking binary compatibility, not source compatibility)
+
** Foundation (Denis) is aware of the problem, looking for a solution sooner than later
−
** Martin is concerned that dropping binaries built against 3.x into 4.0 will fail late at runtime only, due to use of internals
+
** Skype group call, or zoom.us would work for Dani and McQ
−
** John suggests API usage scan to understand issues early
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|526065}} Java 9 to Oxygen.1a beta update issue'''
−
** Martin is more interested in source compatibility (build against 4.0) - can this be made super simple?
+
** Users who had the Java 9 beta installed and "update" to Oxygen.1a are broken
 +
** McQ: Updating from "beta" to "final" is not necessarily supposed to be working (Lars disagrees)
 +
** Not yet sure what's causing the issue .. p2 bug, or different groupID for Java9beta
 +
** Fix the issue if it looks like a real bug or easy to fix ... otherwise just post a message, preferredly on the Marketplace client (''Dani: that part is done already'')
 +
* Lars: '''Release Cycle Discussion'''
 +
** McQ still in favor of making every milestone a release
 +
*** Alex thinks we're not there yet in terms of releng, there's still too many manual steps. Would prefer slower cadence (eg 3 months) until more automation is there (updating pom.xml, version mgmt, ...)
 +
*** With 4 releases per year (like today) but no more maintenance branches/backports, there's potentially less work than today
 +
*** Try starting with a release every 2nd milestone; fix automation; then strive for releasing every milestone.
 +
*** Dani thinks the model shouldn't change in the middle of Photon; look for feedback then move to the new model next year
 +
** McQ: If we switch to the new model now (Oxygen.2), what do we lose?
 +
*** Martin: Any bigger feature that would need to move into a branch? - Dani: Advanced Source Lookup
 +
*** Dani: Also our rules about "no new features" and "PMC Approval" would need to change
 +
*** '''Continue discussion in 2 weeks''' (skip next week due to EclipseCon)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Aug 11, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani
+
'''October 10, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex, Martin
−
* McQ - '''3.7 Planning Process''' - input requested from all committers about plan items
+
* Dani: '''Oxygen.1a respin'''
−
* '''Eclipse 4.0 Feedback''' - not too much seen, neither good nor bad
+
** Primary reason for respin was, that people who have existing XText installed would be broken when updating the Platform
 +
** Opportunity to piggy-back JDT critical fixes was welcome
 +
* Dani: '''Equinox Move''' - Review passed without objections, working on implementation now
 +
** Expecting less trouble than with the Platform and JDT merges recently
 +
** Foundation want to keep Equinox as a brand, therefore will be a subproject (beside Platform, JDT, PDE)
 +
** So to increase the committer base, the fast track option will now apply; also, more alignment in terms of PMC.
 +
** Confirmed again that we will ask Tom to join our PMC. Approval can be found in [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg03166.html this thread].
 +
* Dani: '''Planning Council - Rolling Releases Update'''
 +
** Should remove some of the work maintaining 2 streams - simply release from master regularly
 +
** In the past, API breakage (migration guide) was allowed only once per year - how to deal with this moving forward
 +
** Handle with semantic versioning; how to give adopters sufficient time to adjust
 +
** There's usually 2 camps for every topic being discussed ... though practically, Platform sets the pace
 +
** Release Naming - New Name every quarter? Versioning scheme? (like 2017.4 or 17.04)
 +
** How to simplify processes (also in terms of IP), can the Foundation scale up? Perhaps not more work, but more deadlines
 +
*** In terms of the Release Review, only the N&N and the Migration Guide are relevant; need to satisfy small and big consumers
 +
* Martin: '''Reddeer Contribution'''
 +
** When we last discussed this, it was an important criterion that any contributor can run the tests easily
 +
** Alex: Looks good, essentially boils down to running "mvn clean verify" in the PDE repo (or right-click > Run as Reddeer from the IDE) - '''AI Alex''' will have a video sent to the PMC list
 +
* Alex: '''API Removal in Context of Rolling Releases'''
 +
** Which Rules to apply for allowing removal of API; Allow removal in any release?
 +
*** McQ: The real question is, how long it takes consumers to adopt to removal
 +
*** Dani: Is more conservative regarding deletion - the value removing something is often smaller than the ripple it causes
 +
*** McQ: If there is code in our codebase that significantly slows us down, it should be remove even if API
 +
** Martin: With more releases, there's less push to upgrade ; but will consumers know they are broken? - Semantic versioning should address that, but who really uses upper version ranges ... they have caused more pain than benefit in the past
 +
** Dani: In the past, with our 3-year deprecation plan, Major versions have not been updated even on announced removals...
 +
** McQ: If we are earnest about faster velocity, we '''have to''' fully adopt semantic versioning practices. If we as producers have done what we could, our job is done - consumers who don't use upper version ranges are on their own
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Aug 4, 2010:''' - meeting cancelled
+
'''October 3, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin
 +
* '''Conf system woes''' - Dani couldn't dial in, Denis restarted the bridge leaving Martin and Alex in a Zombie bridge
 +
** '''ACTION McQ''' will send out conf.details using IBM's bridge
 +
* {{bug|520720}} Mickael's question on Performance improvement
 +
** Dani: There is already an asynchronous RequestLayout API for clients, and APIs already suggest clients use the async one
 +
*** Therefore, changing the synchronous API to work asynchronously doesn't look right.
 +
** Alex: We seem to be mixing two aspects here -- agree regarding RequestLayout concerns, but why should the ProgressMonitor one be a problem?
 +
*** Dani: Agree that the ProgressMonitor approach makes sense, but a very careful review is needed - existing code already subclasses ProgressMonitor, need to make sure that expected methods are still called
 +
*** '''ACTION Dani''' will do a careful review of the ProgressMonitor part and deny the generic RequestLayout part
 +
* Dani: '''Equinox Restructuring''' request for the move is in, will work with Tom and Foundation forward
 +
* Dani: '''Oxygen.1a''' - RC2 is in for JUnit5 and Java9
 +
** Respin of Oxygen.1 for {{bug|520176}} Mac 10.13 High Sierra problem? - Not currently planned, there will be 1a instead
 +
** A feature patch is another option, providing patched SWT; and, there's the workarounds
 +
* Dani: '''Rolling Release''' - 2 topics: rolling release, and alignment with Java Update Releases
 +
** Some projects on the train have alignment goals with other projects outside Java; will discuss again in the Planning Council
 +
* Alex: '''{{bug|522733}} webkit crash''' - A workaround is available, in contact with webkit devs for a complete fix to keep Photon usable
 +
** Workaround would introduce a small memory leak, but only on the first instance of webkit created
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 28, 2010:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani, Jeff
+
 
−
* Discussed process for handling security patches
+
'''September 26, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin
−
** If patches had metadata that would allow them to be flagged as security or "critical" patches, then p2 could automatically apply them on startup
+
* {{bug|520176}} '''MacOSX 10.13 (High Sierra) Menus Disabled'''
−
** Deluxe solution would use out of process installer to be able to repair corrupt install that can't even start
+
** Only non-English Locales are affected
−
** Simple solution is to put patches in the eclipse/updates/3.6 repository and users need to apply them manually
+
** For 4.7.1a and Photon, a fix is in
−
* McQ gave a summary of the state of the Eclipse SDK 4.0 release (see his later [http://dev.eclipse.org/blogs/mcqjustmcq/2010/07/28/growing-the-future/ blog post]).
+
** Foundation [https://www.eclipse.org/org/press-release/20170925criticalbug.php Press Release (Newsletter)] is out with information how to work around
−
* Discussed possibility of facet work moving to e4
+
** Tweets are around as well -- keep spreading the message
−
** Need to be clear on what would be required to migrate it to the platform
+
* '''Equinox Move Review''' - progressing
−
** Have separate call with Konstantin to discuss
+
* Alex: {{bug|522733}} '''GTK Crash on Close preventing IDE Restart''' - can it go into 4.7.1a ?
−
* Discussed state of builds moving to Foundation infrastructure
+
** Seen with Fedora 27 (Webkitgtk 2.18)
−
** Could explore migrating build to different build technology such as Buckminster or Tycho if it provides any benefit
+
** Foundation wanted to keep Java9 stuff separate, so pushing it there might not even help
−
** Concern about the build/test machines becoming a bottleneck as more projects move to it
+
** The issue is serious (hard crash preventing restart of the IDE), though fortunately not many people have that particular webkitgtk version yet
−
** Still need to run performance tests on IBM hardware for now because virtualized machine is not consistent enough
+
** Investigate details and possible workarounds, then consider our options -- maybe a Foundation Newsletter similar to the OSX 10.13 issue
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 21, 2010:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani
+
'''September 19, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars
−
* McQ - '''State of Eclipse 4.0'''
+
* '''Async APIs request from the eclipse-pmc list''' (not discussed today)
−
** Not where we'd like us to be, but converging fast and there seem no issues blocking shipping
+
* Lars: '''Java 6-month release cycles'''
−
** Not slowing down people any more, and get some new capabilities (view tear-off etc)
+
** Alex likes the 6 month idea - less backporting
−
** Should we have 3.7 and 4.1 release trains? allow projects to choose? - Discussions ongoing with PC, Foundation (enough resources to support this?)
+
** McQ would ideally like full releases every 3 months (except not releasing anything unfinished)
−
* John - '''Eclipse 4.0 Release Review'''
+
** Dani: If Java really delivers every 6 months (will they?), Eclipse could consider rolling releases every milestone. There is a doc from the Planning Council (Mélanie Bats) in that regard.
−
** Need to go public now to have 1-week review period
+
** Dani: Support for the public JDKs will be limited to the current release only (6mo)
−
* Dani - need to start publishing the '''3.6.1 freeze plan'''
+
** Risk: Oracle Java may be working on big features "in the background", if there is very little time adopting new features (current license doesn't allow releasing stuff built on Beta's) it's hard for Eclipse to keep up
−
* Dani - '''separate groups for resources and runtime'''
+
** Lars: Some teams already moving to Kotlin...
−
** Too small micro-components make operation harder
+
** Dani: More discusssions planned at ECE, AC etc
−
** McQ 0, Martin 0, Dani +1, John +1 (but strive for more simplicity on other areas)
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' to wait for now for (a) the Planning Council announcement and (b) how Java will actually implement and live up to their plans. Work towards faster release cycles (that's a good message to the consumers anyways).
−
* Vacations - McQ 2 weeks off starting Aug 16
+
** Will need to work on details. If there's more releases, and each one needs a review, it's more work on release records and reviews. Already on a good path here, paperwork reduced to a matter of an hour.
 +
* Dani: Java 9 (Oxygen.1a) round the door. Plan is a full release.
 +
* McQ: {{bug|520176}} '''MacOS 10.13 menubar issue''' people at Apple are also looking at it. Biggest problem is that it's not 100% reproducible. Might end up with some System Properties to be set to resolve the problem.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 14, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani
+
'''September 12, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
−
* Dani - '''Problem launching Oracle/Sun jre6u21 on Windows'''
+
* Dani asked Alex to look into {{bug|517063}} with high prio. We need this for M2.
−
** {{bug|319514}} Quickly runs out of Permgen space, because the vendor name has changed and so the -XXPermGen flag is not appended
+
* Dani: sub-project merge
−
** Put in a quick workaround for 3.6.1, patch ahead of time (some people wanted a 3.6a but we don't think that's worth the ripple)
+
** McQ and Lars approved my message regarding sub-project. Will send out the note today.
−
** Most commercial products ship a VM, so likely not as bad as thought
+
** Still an issue with IP log not being merged
−
*** Very natural that failure can happen when we don't control the VMs and the VM has custom arguments
+
** Release engineers can no longer restart the HIPPs
−
** Only a windows issue for now (Linux parses version and looks for "hotspot")
+
* Started to discuss [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg03116.html Advise for performance enhancement making API methods behave async]
−
** Martin: Placing a .hotspotrc file somewhere is another possible workaround
+
** We need more time to verify the fix and look at the patch. Will discuss and decide next week.
−
** Dani and Martin propose updating the FAQ, adding a Readme section, circulating the information about workarounds should be sufficient.
+
 
 +
'''September 5, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Martin
 +
* Alex: {{bug|521639}} '''Mac Signing Issues for Oxygen.1'''
 +
** 3 requests out of 5 failing, don't know yet why - webmasters assume hardware issues, trying to move to a different machine
 +
** RC4:
 +
*** Security fix in p2 ({{bug|518031}})
 +
*** Changes in Releng scripts to run tests on different Mac machine
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 7, 2010:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, John, Dani
+
'''August 29, 2017''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
−
* McQ - '''Graduating e4 without changing the name'''
+
* All: '''Conference System Woes''' - 3 tries for McQ (race conditions?), 2 tries for Martin (silence first), 10 tries for Dani
−
** Jeff - a little effort upfront on messaging may pay off really big in the longer run ... picking up 4.0 without proper messaging may end up in lot negative press
+
* Dani: '''Subproject Merge''' done after some hiccups, no complaints since Fri
−
** eg messages about the state of Performance, BIDI, ... cf Eclipse 4.0 "Early Adopter Release"
+
** Subprojects are now "archived" with a comment that they got merged into the parent project
−
* Dani - '''BREE to 1.5 for JDT-UI''', what is the process?
+
** '''AI Dani''' planning to send another notification to mailing lists:
−
** '''approved''', all in favor, eat our own dogfood, 1.6 does not provide much benefit
+
*** former PLs to become Repo Maintainers responsible for signoff and planning
−
* Dani - '''Checkin Policies for 3.6.1 Maintenance Stream'''
+
*** Bugzilla remaining the same
−
** We should have more control over what goes into M-builds .. what's the least intrusive way doing so?
+
*** Some former subproject leads already stepped up as combined project co-leads (Lars, Lakshmi, Sarika)
−
** McQ suggests M7-ish policies + endgame . Dani suggests mandatory 1-committer code review. Martin requires fix verification.
+
** McQ: Move forward towards the new structure, but there's also need to push for responsibility among the subcomponents (finding go-to persons...)
−
** Bring up the topic on Arch call, since committers are affected .. the goal is keeping quality high and having change control.
+
* Dani: '''StyledText improvement request on the ML''' (Pluggable selection model)
 +
** point to the e4 incubator for experiments, encourage innovation though might be quite hard and pervasive
 +
* RC3 looking good (except for build issues on the Foundation side, no I-Build since Aug.22 - Mac DMG is at risk for RC3)
 +
* Dani away next week, please watch the list for approvals towards RC4 next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 30, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, John
+
'''August 22, 2017''' - Alex, Dani, Martin
−
* No negative response yet about switching to Java 6 reference platforms
+
* All: '''Conference System Woes''' - Dani had 7 minutes trouble dialing in; Alex was kicked out
−
** Components free to move up but not a free-for-all. Justify reasons for moving up on eclipse-pmc mailing list.
+
* Dani: '''Plan''' - '''AI Martin''' review
−
** In many cases there is little added benefit of Java 6 so Java 5 is more likely as a bundle execution environment
+
** Target Platform reduced - removed too much? - and Subproject plans. Rest is copy-and-paste.
−
* 4.0 release and bundle/package naming
+
* Dani: '''Subproject Merge''' - Everything approved, waiting for implementation by EMO.
−
** Agreed that we will not migrate bundle/package namespaces at this time
+
* Dani: '''RC2 this week''' - Still many Platform/UI bugs, Dani will make a pass moving out since Lars is on vacation
−
** e4 API is not ready so the separation is helpful to divide it from the mature API
+
* Martin: '''feature/bundle version issues'''
−
** It is not simply a package name issue, there are also class names containing "e4". Need to work through the process of merging the new API with the old, but this will take time
+
** Dani: Checking versions is quite time consuming, there's no tooling solution for the workspace right now (but there are reports).
 +
** For branding bundles and features, rules are different than for others - Dani currently doing those, since few people have access
 +
** Currently we're looking good, but automation would be better than manual nagging
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 23, 2010:''' - Jeff, John
+
'''August 15, 2017''' - Alex, Dani
−
* No topics
+
* Dani: '''subproject merge''' initiated - waiting for webmasters
 +
* Dani: Provided Photon (4.8) release record and plan - please provide comments
 +
* Alex and Dani discussed feature/bundle version issues - next builds should be better
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 16, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Jeff
+
 
−
* McQ - '''Java 4 going away''' (was EOL since October 2008, Java 5 EOL since October 2009)
+
'''August 8, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani
−
** Dani: Don't bump up any BREBump up to 1.5 only if needed
+
* Eclipse [[Asterisk]] system is not working reliably (again). It took Dani 6 minutes until he could dial in (using the Swiss number - US number failed repeatedly). McQ can't dial in until 10 min later.
−
** Jeff: If moving off 1.4, why not move up to 1.6 ?
+
* Dani: starting the '''planning record for Photon''' to announce participation in M1
−
*** Reality is that we want the tiny Foundatation-1.1 or the big wad, and 1.5 is no better than 1.6
+
** Toplevel items: JUnit5, Java9. Subplans on the Wiki.
−
*** Equinox may start using Generics and down-compile to 1.4 ... think about what's in ercp
+
* Dani: '''subproject merge''' - wanted to wait for M1, but should be done this week
−
** Start a cross-project discussion... question is whether everyone who depends on Platform has 1.6 VM Support
+
* Alex: '''ppc64be''' - Sravan is waiting on final decision whether it will be removed in Photon
−
** Martin has no problem with 1.6, suggest asking on cross-project / some of the bigger players (e.g. Jetty, Modeling, ...)
+
** Dani: PMC decision was settled, so removed from Eclipse plan - IBM ''might'' still continue building it for internal use
−
*** McQ to ask Boris bring up with the Board
+
−
* Martin, Jeff, Dani vacation next 2 weeks (likely not on the call).
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 9, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, McQ, John
+
'''August 1, 2017''' - no call
−
* Dani - '''Approval for Docs''' - flexibility around docs is good, but after RC4 is too late.
+
−
* Dani - '''Re-Opening HEAD''' - basically OK, to be discussed at the Arch call.
+
−
* McQ - '''Shutting down status messages''' for rest of the month except for really noteworthy things.
+
  
 +
'''July 25, 2017''' - Alex, Lars, Dani
 +
* project merge got go, Dani to implement it with webmaster and then send out the announcement this or next week. E-mail will also mention that existing project leads can become co-leads on Eclipse Platform
 +
* Discussion if CVS should be removed from the SDK build, Alex +1, Lars +1, Dani +1
 +
* Discussion if the remaining 2.0 compatibility layer can be removed, Dani: OK to remove but other plug-ins might still have dependencies to it, must the also updated, as well as the documentation
 +
 +
'''July 18, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
 +
* project merge review awaiting go from Wayne - Dani pinged again in the bug report
 +
* Dani will kick off planning for Photon a bit earlier since he will be in Bangalore the next 12 days. Platform UI already started.
 +
* M1 on August 11
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 2, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, McQ, John, McQ
+
'''July 11, 2017''' - no meeting
−
* Dani - '''ECF Issues''': Why does Eclipse have a process with Approvals while ECF does not. At the moment, there is a mutual dependency.
+
 
−
** Once we decided to consume them, we have no control over their rules.
+
'''July 4, 2017''' - no meeting
−
** Our only option is not consuming late changes from them (and thus burn the community and them).
+
−
** John - there are some cases where we could push back a bit more (without going to the limit of not consuming at all).
+
−
** Problems have been due to the build (and not due to quality issues in their code). But this doesn't change the fact that '''ANY''' late binding change is work and risk and should thus be pushed back if possible.
+
−
** McQ would like to be more flexible accepting changes .. are we becoming too stiff? ie. do what we can to mitigate risk, but live with taking risk .. that's part of the Eclipse Way.
+
−
* John - '''Builds after RC4'''
+
−
** Need PMC agreement. John going to discuss cross-project criteria.
+
−
** McQ doesn't want to tie our release to the winds of others (outside Eclipse) getting back to us or not. '''We should not be asking cross-project for approval.'''
+
−
** Each project is going to do what makes most sense to them (including us). In favor of having the conversation, but not asking for approval.
+
−
* John - '''When to start 3.7 and 3.6.1 builds''' - defer to next week.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 26, 2010:''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Jeff, John
+
'''June 27, 2017''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* Brief meeting. John just mentions that there's surprisingly many "Critical" bugs. Maybe just a triage problem. Will bring up in Arch call.
+
* '''Equinox Merge to the Eclipse TLP'''
 +
** Keep Equinox as a separate Project, to allow independent Equinox releases without Platform (and keep Bugzilla simple)
 +
** The only argument for stronger integration would be getting more committers, but there is no strong need and we have the FastTrack process in place for that
 +
* '''Eclipse Merge of Component (Sub)Projects into Platform'''
 +
** Just 4 Projects: Platform, Equinox, JDT, PDE (plus the incubators for e4 and JDT)
 +
** Former (Sub)Project Leads to become "Component Leads", "Technology Owners" or "Repository Owners"
 +
*** Repository Ownership is appealing as the structure is very clear (+1 Dani,Alex,McQ)
 +
** Platform Lead initially Dani, more Co-Leads could step up if they want
 +
*** Main work is helping component leads if they can't come to a consensus - usually less work than PMC duties
 +
* Dani: '''JSR 376 Ballot'''
 +
** Public review reconsideration ballot got approved by all except Red Hat who abstained
 +
** Much progress in the past weeks, consensus except RH abstained
 +
** Looks like the OOBE of Java9 would tolerate reflection, currently looks like on track for a September Release
 +
* '''Vacations''' many people will be off next week, especially in the U.S.
 +
** PMC call will be skipped next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 19, 2010:''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Jeff, John
+
'''June 20, 2017''' - MQ, Dani, Lars, Alex
−
* John - {{bug|27930}} '''Naming of Eclipse Classic'''
+
* Attracting new contributors discussions - code cleanup and deletion of old paths needed
−
** McQ - No other package on that page is the output of a single project, would want to see Eclipse SDK removed from packages page
+
** Alex: Big issue to get people working on codebase and considering many now irrelevant paths in the codebase
−
** Jeff - "RCP/Plugin Developer" used to be direct replacements (SDK + Mylyn + XML Editor), but now also includes RAP (217MB)
+
** Dani: Cleanups should be done by the one starting them through the whole SDK  
−
** Dani - Some people go to downloads/ and then look for a milestone
+
** Lars: Not feasible as some projects are slower pace moving and the change might require more effort than one can or is willing to spend in his free time
−
** "Development Builds" tab provides access to milestones of packages; "Projects" tab provides access to direct project output.
+
** Alex: Great opportunity to have new people joining by doing simple tasks and grow them into full committers
−
** '''Resolution:''' 650.000 people have downloaded classic (#2 download), even scrolling down - changing this is a waste.
+
** McQ: We have to come up with list of items we would like to get cleaned and properly follow our deprecation policy even if the migration guide for Photon get really big with things we schedule for removal in the future.
−
* Dani - {{bug|313524}} '''Preference for new API Constant''' for the Formatter (also [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=59891#c45 bug 59891 comment 45] and onwards)
+
* Dani: Sub-projects merge
−
** Some people don't like the new look (method wrapping) - currently no way to have the formatter behave the same in 3.5 and 3.6
+
** Name of the new project - McQ: Everyone refers to it as Platform so natural choice it is
−
** '''Resolution:''' pmc+ since little effort avoids lot of churn. Keeping the functionality without allowing to disable is a no-go.
+
** JDT, PDE, Platform (subprojects) to become single project
−
* Martin - '''Feedback channel for removing API''' process (e.g. {{bug|311931}})
+
** Person responsible for some code area in the merged project - to be further dicussed
−
** '''Resolution:''' Add a suggestion to the [[Eclipse/API Central/API Removal Process]] page to start fresh for the feedback channel if there's a lot of discussion on the existing bug (by bugzilla clone)
+
* Dani: Dropping Xulrunner support - PMC to approve it in the bug
−
* John - '''4.0 topics'''
+
−
** FYI: Ian created a draft of a [http://www.eclipse.org/helios/eclipse-sdk-4.0/ landing page]. Working on a [http://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse/Eclipse_SDK_4.0_FAQ release FAQ] page
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 12, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, John, Jeff, Dani
+
'''Juni 13, 2017''' - MQ, Dani, Lars
−
* Remaining work for Release - John: Checklist (Docs, collective N&N etc... IP Logs end May)
+
* Dani: Release review for 4.7 was successful
−
** [[Eclipse/Release checklist]], and [[Eclipse Doc Checklist]]. '''AI Dani''' has another one for Docs - will update for 3.6 and send offline
+
* Dani: Rebuild for 4.7RCa required due to new EMF version and a fix for a critical bug which resulted in duplicated menu entries
−
** [[Platform-releng-faq#Eclipse_Release_checklist]] also links to [[3.3 Release checklist]]
+
 
−
* IP Logs for subprojects - '''AI Jeff''' talk to Wayne to allow IP logs for container projects, also ask Boris (committer rep) - unsure if we have a committer rep on the IP Advisory committee, but we should have
+
* Merge of the sub-projects
−
* Eclipse SDK 4.0 Naming
+
** Planned for M1, desired to be coordinated with the move of Equinox to Platform
−
** John - from Mailing List discussion, "Eclipse SDK 4.0 Early Adopter Release" seemed to be the favorite one
+
** We prefer to keep the project pages and wikis so that all the information is kept
−
** Next year's release will be 4.1. Ian going to prepare a landing page to send the right message, working with Boris and John
+
** Preferable we want to have one committer list for Eclipse platform
−
* API Deletion - luceneSearchParticipant
+
** Dani to check with foundation how the merge can be done
−
** Deprecation should include a migration path (if it exists).
+
 
−
** Will document deletions in the migration guide (and probably also in the README)
+
'''May 30, 2017''' - Martin, Dani, Lars
−
** Martin: Add a Bugzilla Keyword for API Deletions, will make it very easy to create a query for all pending API deletions
+
* Dani: Please approve or disapprove the release review
−
** Jeff: Whatever we do, current deletions should be examplary.
+
* Dani: '''Starting the Debugger doesn't work always'''
 +
** Occurs for Lars, but isn't reproducible - one of the top 3 things to fix if steps to reproduce are found
 +
** Lars: Equinox replaced the DS implementation in 4.7, the issue is probably related
 +
** Failure is totally random: On a very slow Virtual Machine, it failed almost always (9 failures out of 10); on other machine it works most of the time; even after working fine 3 times, it may fail the 4th time; seems to occur more frequently on older machines than newer ones.
 +
** Martin: try with a reverse debugger like [http://chrononsystems.com/products/chronon-time-travelling-debugger/download Chronon] ?
 +
*** Should help by just collecting a log; and when the failure occurs, "play back" the log to understand under what condition the race condition occurs; the a reproducible case is available, and the log can also be sent around between different developers for investigation, potentiall also to Apache Felix upstream
 +
* Dani: '''Equinox Launcher Issues'''
 +
** During M7, a change was made to ignore certain command-line arguments
 +
** This caused 2 regressions - {{bug|517013}} and {{bug|516349}} MacOSX restart regression
 +
** Java 9 will probably change the parameters again, see {{bug|516911}} :(
 +
** It's getting too late to make any more changes to the Launcher. Re-compiling on different hardware has already caused {{bug|517013}}, it's possible that more issues (not yet known) might be caused by the rebuild. With Java 9 probably changing again, we don't win much by rebuilding to try and align with something that's not yet released.
 +
*** Option A: Put options into the eclipse.ini -- today it works for both Java 8 and Java 9
 +
*** Option B: Add the "probably proposed" new option to the launcher, will need to rebuild the launcher again
 +
*** Option C: Revert the launcher to what it was before (and well tested) back to M6 - for running with Java 9, the options have to be added manually
 +
** Users will have to read on a webpage what needs to be done for Java 9 launching; for Eclipse SDK, a single option is needed - some add-on components
 +
*** Additional complexity: Different JVMs need different options (IBM, Oracle...)
 +
*** Martin: {{bug|517452}} Introduce a fallback mechanism to the launcher, which reads the Java ID and loads 'eclipse-javaID.ini' with a fallback to 'eclipse.ini', but does not seem reasonable for Oxygen since too late
 +
*** Better to have a clean story: At IBM, the entire build environment changed ... reverting gets us back to a bullet-proof launcher that was tested for 7 milestones ... will work safely with Java 8, for Java 9 people will have to read the N&N or StackOverflow to find out about the right arguments - same as in Neon
 +
* '''AGREEMENT to revert the Launcher to the M6 version'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 5, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, John, Dani
+
'''May 23, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ
−
* Martin - {{bug|309059}} root cert validity? - Tom investigating, no new info
+
* Dani: '''Apache Batik XXE Vulnerability'''
−
* Martin - How to mark issues for [[Polish3.6]] (UNC issues, Launcher vmargs {{bug|149994}}) - who sets the Bugzilla polish kwd?
+
** Alex: Moving to Batik 1.9 would be good, but there is so much UI breakage that it's not viable for Oxygen
−
** Martin to bring up again, and add to the Polish Wiki, and add the polish keyword on bz.
+
* Martin: '''Bugs discovered during RC test cycle'''
−
** Any Eclipse Platform committer is allowed to suggest items that bug him personally on the polish list (against any component).
+
** Surprised that some low-priority issues do get attention ({{bug|517108}}) while others get no response at all ({{bug|517013}}
−
* John - Helios Plan update
+
** Dani: Only interested in severe issues and regressions - send message to platform-releng-dev with severe regressions found
−
* John - API Removal
+
** Dani: Please +1 the Gerrit for {{bug|517108}}
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 28, 2010:''' - Jeff, Martin, John, McQ, Dani
+
'''May 16, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars
−
* Martin - '''[[Eclipse/UNC_Paths]]''' - testing for 3.6 ? Bugzilla: [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwords&short_desc=unc&classification=Eclipse&classification=RT&product=Equinox&product=Platform&product=JDT&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&product=PDE All open with UNC in the summary]
+
* Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
−
** Especially {{bug|289322}} and {{bug|262601}} are blocking for Martin, because these make it impossible to have Eclipse installed on an UNC path (common scenario in large organizations)
+
** Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
−
** Consensus: ''No concerted effort'', there are likely other more pressing issues; but ''investigate and prioritize what we find, and fix if possible''.
+
* {{bug|509922}} Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
−
** <b><i>Running on UNC is considered a Polish item</i></b>.
+
** Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
−
* Jeff, McQ - '''Eclipse 4.0 Naming'''
+
** Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
−
** Suggestion: "Eclipse 4.0 Indigo Preview"
+
* '''Test failures:''' Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
−
** McQ: Don't want to send a negative message - it ''is'' usable though add-on support may be missing
+
** Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
−
** John: This is a new release of the Platform, but not all of Eclipse Foundation technology... unsure how to phrase that into a release name
+
** CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
−
** Jeff: Based on this, putting Indigo into the name is a negative and may trigger false assumptions
+
** UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
−
** McQ: ''Eclipse SDK 4.0 Developer Release'' - sends the right message
+
* {{bug|516114}} Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
−
** Jeff: '''Come up with 3 or 4 suggestions and bounce these around'''. Start a public discussion. Check with other OSS projects, e.g. Andrew Overholt
+
** Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
−
* McQ - '''1.5 BREE for Resources to support Unicode Characters'''
+
** The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
−
** Suggest everything on top of the base RCP move up to 1.5
+
** That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
−
** Jeff: "Move when you need to and not before" - when do we "need to"
+
** Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
−
* John - '''[[Eclipse/API Central/API Removal Process]]
+
*** The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
−
** Just a compilation of things discussed before. '''Discuss on the Mailing List'''
+
** '''AGREEMENT:''' In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
−
* McQ - '''Pascal as the OBR spec lead'''
+
*** Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
−
** From point of view of the Eclipse Project, can't imagine what value we'd get from participating in OBR spec. IBM might care.
+
*** McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
 +
* Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
 +
* Alex: '''Project Structure'''
 +
** Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
 +
** Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
 +
** In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
 +
** Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
 +
** McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
 +
** Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move forward on this, with a ''Platform Leadership'' group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 21, 2010:''' - Jeff, Martin, John, Dani, McQ
+
'''May 9, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ
−
* John - extended '''2 day test pass''' for M7 on Mon and Tue
+
* Dani: '''JSR376 Jigsaw''': 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
−
* Jeff - '''Eclipse 4.0 naming'''
+
** From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
−
** McQ hopes that Eclipse 4.0 will be good enough for public consumption - whatever we call it, it needs to be what we call it
+
** JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
−
** Jeff - the message should be that it's (a) new, (b) cool, (c) not quite done yet
+
** For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
−
** McQ - 4.0 won't be as performant as 3.x. Users will see the new cool presentation, but other than that it's like 3.6
+
** JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
−
** Biggest problem will be people who don't follow the Community and just get 4.0 because they heard about it
+
* Dani: '''M7/RC0''' - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
−
** Jeff - Comes down to setting expectations. Naming is one aspect of this, there's other aspects.
+
** When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
−
** John - Ian organized an e4-evangelist call.
+
**# Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
−
** McQ - Most people will just consume the release train (Helios) anyways, and will notice that 4.0 is "different".
+
**# Section forms layout
−
* Martin - {{bug|306822}} '''IncrementalBuilder.getRule()''' API addition: Ask James whether CDT Helios can pick up the change
+
* Dani: '''httpcore 4.4.1 -&gt; 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility'''
−
* Martin - '''James for committer''' - move to public policy of only considering committed contributions
+
** Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
 +
** People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
 +
** Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
 +
** Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
 +
** Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
 +
* Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
 +
* Dani: '''Release Review''', does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
 +
** All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
 +
** McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
 +
** Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
 +
** Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 14, 2010:''' - John, Dani, Martin, Jeff
+
'''May 2, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
−
* Martin - '''Startup Performance tests''': Cold start after reboot is 20% slower in 3.6m6 compared to 3.5.2 (while warm start is about the same)
+
* Lars: '''Regex Evaluator Plugin'''
−
** Manual test: Reboot a minimal WinXP system, then start into a fresh workspace with 1 JDT project (20 files) 1 open file in the editor.
+
** Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
−
** 28 sec in 3.5.2 but 36 sec in 3.6m6. Will file a bug tomorrow.
+
** Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
−
** John: There are 2 startup performance tests in the suite, but they are unreliable. In 3.6, changed the way tests are installed (director rather than dropins), thus baseline is not helpful.
+
** McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
−
** Jeff: Try have a look at {{Bug|308157}} Jarfile cache now limited to 100. Reason might just be cycling through more Jar's.
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
−
* John, Dani - '''Polish List'''
+
* Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
−
* John - '''e4 plan update'''. Waiting on McQ, wants an accurate list on what's graduating.
+
* Dani: '''JSR Jigsaw Ballot'''
−
** Jeff - once something is in 4.0 you cannot remove in 4.x so better think twice before graduating.
+
** Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard
−
** John - Eclipse SDK 4.0 has a minimal API exposed, most new stuff is under the covers so this is not so much of an issue.
+
−
** Jeff - More important to have Eclipse SDK 4.0 rock solid than have it feature complete. Do few things well rather than many things poorly.
+
−
** John - '''Self-hosting a day on Eclipse 4.0 without blocking issues!''' (But much to be polished, bugs, errors in the log etc).
+
−
* Jeff - '''Runtime SDK's vs "targets"''': The label SDK is ambiguous. Want to install tooling + target platform together, but cannot do that today.
+
−
** Today, we use "SDK" for (a) tools+source+docs, or (b) runtime+source+docs. None of both is really an SDK.
+
−
** Better call the target stuff just "targets".
+
−
** Developer docs as part of the tooling is wrong ... should be associated with targets instead.
+
−
** John: p2 does have the ability to install into multiple profiles (plan = multiple profiles)... might be (mis)used for this, is it a hack?
+
−
** Jeff: Much target provisioning was deferred off 3.6
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 7, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff, John
+
'''Apr 25, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* Builds - short call
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3a'''
 +
** Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
 +
*** '''AI Alex''' tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
 +
*** Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Mar 31, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
'''Apr 18, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
−
* Martin - '''EclipseCon Report'''
+
* Dani: '''RH and Java9 Jigsaw'''
−
** General industry trend pointing up (as perceived on the exhibition floor); e4 rover great success! other strong topics included build (b3, buckminster, maven / tycho / nexus, athena...)
+
** Very good write-up linked from the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03385.html AC Mailinglist] - see also [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03389.html follow-up]
−
** e4 message in general very well positioned and received; git / egit was another hot topic
+
** Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
−
** Modeling and RT projects in an up trend, other projects seem to go slightly down in terms of Community interest as well as commercial involvement
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3 Respin'''
−
** API Tutorial very well received, Martin going to work on a "Wiki" version of checklists and guidance, will notify AC when done
+
** Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
−
* John - Eclipse 4.0: Timing for graduating e4 incubation material into the Eclipse proper
+
* Lars: '''[https://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/glance#group-details Glance] Migration''' to e4 and/or Platform
−
** We cannot ship an Eclipse SDK out of the e4 project
+
** e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
−
** Want a clear message what Eclipse 4.0 is... probably "includes incubating components" like some EPP packages
+
* Lars
−
** '''AI John''' talk to Mike and Ian
+
** JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Mar 17, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
+
'''Apr 11, 2017''' - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani
−
* McQ: '''git''' vs CVS: Should there be contributions by Platform on Egit?
+
* Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
−
** Martin: Don't know how well egit proceeded recently, Boris might know more... important point is that the major workflows are perfect. Looks like the major workflows have been identified already.
+
** There will be a special drop for Java 9 in July, but it has not yet been decided whether it will be a release where users automatically get the update, or a special p2 repository or Marketplace entry where the update can be done on demand.
−
* Martin: '''WebkitGTK / MiniBrowser''': In addition to the recent WebkitGTK discussion, perhaps work on a "Minibrowser" API that can live with published frozen Mozilla API only? Many apps may not need the full feature-richness of today's Browser.
+
** Issues with Neon.3. A respin might be necessary. For details see https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/msg02741.html.
−
** McQ unsure whether this is worthwile, since all industry trends go towards more web integration. '''AI Martin''' follow up with Grant
+
* Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.
−
* Dani: '''Performance and Polish''' passes
+
−
** All teams need to fix the issues that Frederic finds. M7 is the performance and polish pass. Prioritize items.
+
−
* Dani: '''Freeze Plan'''
+
−
** Suggest a 2-day test pass (mon/tue) before the RC's, ie move 1 day from RC2 into M7
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Mar 10, 2010:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, John
+
'''Apr 04, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* John: '''Provisional API guidelines''' (removing the requirement to have "internal" in the package name) - important for e4 which will have a lot of provisional API.
+
* Martin: {{bug|514257}} and [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev/msg14316.html cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue]
−
** See also {{bug|261874}} and Wiki [[Provisional API Guidelines Update Proposal]]
+
** Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
−
** "Old School" wanted to make provisional API deliberately painful. Migrating "provisional" to real without renaming will make breakage more subtle
+
** Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
−
** The game has changed: Adding x-internal, friends and API Tooling works much better than before, making it clear where API is provisional
+
** Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
−
** Martin: Much in favor of this, do we have any markup beyond x-internal for (a) making provisional API more explicitly visible or (b) work on a smaller granularity such as just a class?
+
*** Commons Logging is not a Singleton
−
*** McQ: granularity smaller than package makes it too easy to pollute API
+
** Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
−
*** Jeff: would like x-api-status:=provisional markup instead of x-internal:=true ... better do it right than half-baken. Could probably come to a fairly fast consensus on MANIFEST markup
+
* Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
−
** Resolution Lets agree now that x-internal is sufficient for provisional API, and discuss further approvements in parallel. '''AI John''' to search existing bugs about provisional API markup and initiate a discussion on the eclipse-pmc mailing list.
+
* Dani: '''PPC''' - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week
−
* Jeff: '''Target Provisioning and PDE:''' Target components in Galileo (which cannot be installed into the host) - came up with sort of a hack which still confuses users
+
−
** Want just a little bit help in PDE to make target provisioning just a little bit better .. a number of PDE bugs related to this, many been deferred .. there will be new bugs coming to capture what can be done in the short term
+
−
** Resolution: will mark up those new bugs where they request PMC involvement
+
−
* McQ: '''Build Quality:''' There is traditionally a drop in quality around this time of year (API Freeze and Eclipsecon), plus infrastructure problems. It's not really bad but we need to be careful now.
+
−
** John: Resist the urge to put in extra fixes. We are past the test pass. Quality over function, especially now.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Mar 3, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
+
'''Mar 28, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
−
* Martin: Remove org.eclipse.update.configurator and related bundles from SDK? As per {{bug|304505}} it makes Eclipse slow even when off.
+
* Replacement for Sergey
−
** Dani: Might be more than a packaging issue, somebody would have to invest
+
** let's wait and see how things go
−
** McQ: Should fix the Performance issue at any rate, regardless of other issues.
+
** next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
−
* John sick, Dani vacation next week.
+
* Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
 +
** all agree
 +
** McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
 +
* Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
 +
* Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Feb 24, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
+
'''Mar 21, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* Dani: Remove Java 7 support as a plan item due to (a) legal reasons and (b) Java 7 not being finished when Eclipse 3.6 ships
+
* Dani: '''Dirk Fauth''' [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02891.html Requests on eclipse-pmc]
 +
** Alex agrees with Dani
 +
** Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
 +
** Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
 +
* Dani: '''Szymon Ptasiewicz'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Feb 17, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, John
+
'''Mar 14, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* Martin: {{bug|196337}} Pushing CDT Spawner into the Platform?
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 readiness''' - see [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev cross-project-issues-dev]
−
** John, Dani: Platform could only accept it when there is use for it in the SDK. Otherwise it would just bloat the Platform
+
** Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
−
** Recommended best practice: Keep Spawner living in CDT, but put it into a separate bundle such that it can be used by others out of Helios or other p2 Repos
+
*** Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
−
** The [[Nexus Project]], which was once meant to collect such micro functionality to be shared between projects was never successful. Similar requests (e.g. faceted projects) are consumed as individual bundles through p2 today, no matter in which project they have their home where they are developed.
+
** Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the [[Java 9 Readiness]] wiki can show violations
−
* Martin: {{bug|301563}} Fast project import from snapshot data - UI or not?
+
*** Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
−
** John: Want some UI in the Platform in order to test it more easily, e.g. an export wizard
+
*** Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
−
* John: Webkit
+
** Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
−
** Foundation is considering allowing LGPL for exempt prereqs, but not for works-with .. missing a policy for dealing with LGPL works-with
+
** All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
−
** John: Our original reason for marking works-with is that the SWT browser can use either Mozilla or WebKit. However our long term direction is WebKit-only due to brittleness of the Mozilla API which keeps breaking us. There is an increasing number of distros bundling these WebKit libraries so there is a reasonable chance going forward that the library will already be present on the user's machine.
+
*** This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
−
** Martin: Exempt works-with (optional) prereq is perfectly fine for Webkit, since there is a chance it's already there on a Platform (similar to Mozilla)
+
** Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
−
** Classifying it as such makes most sense for Product builders, who look at the prereqs to understand what they need to bundle with their Eclipse based product.
+
* Dani: '''JUnit 5''' considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
−
** PMC agreed to reclassify these libraries as exempt pre-req.
+
** Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
 +
* Dani: '''2 Platform Issues in M6'''
 +
** platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
 +
** major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
 +
*** In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
 +
*** In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
 +
* Alex: '''Generic Editor and Testing'''
 +
** Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
 +
** Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
 +
** Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
 +
** In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Feb 10, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ
+
'''Mar 7, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars
−
* We agreed to list WebKitGTK and libsoup 2.4 as works-with prerequisites
+
* Dani: '''4.6.3 Updates''' - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
−
* We need to find consensus on {{bug|243582}} (embedding source info in binaries)
+
* Dani: '''4.7M7 Update''' - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
−
* Discussed moving Ubuntu version on the plan from 9.04 to 10.04. It is too early to make this decision because release candidates of 10.04 are not yet available, but we will continue to monitor it and make the decision to move up (or not) later in the 3.6 cycle
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 / Planning Council Update''' - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
 +
** See the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/ eclipse.org-planning-council archives]
 +
* Lars: '''Platform.Resources Leadership''' after Sergey Leaving
 +
** Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
 +
** Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
 +
** Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
 +
** Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
 +
** Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Feb 03, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin
+
'''Feb 28, 2017''' - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ
−
* Dani: {{Bug|301563}} -  Fast project import from snapshot data
+
* Alex: '''Short update on Neon.3'''
−
** Has the feature been verified to really return the expected performance gain? - Martin: Yes, Cisco reports 10 minute -> 5 seconds improvement by using the feature on project import on their view (65000 files)
+
** 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
−
** Is the feature valuable without Index contributions from JDT / CDT? - Martin: Yes, even "plain" projects benefit when there are linked resources pointing to web folders through RSE/EFS since they can be browsed immediately and refresh can be reduced to what's really needed. But most benefit is gained when there is also a shared index to be imported for immediate use.
+
** PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
−
** Dani proposed checkin into a branch for easier merge / review - Martin: Will start working with patches
+
* Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
−
** AI Martin: Contact Sharon regarding IP review (reserve a slot)
+
* Martin: '''RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing'''
 +
** Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
 +
** Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
 +
** Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
 +
** '''AI Martin''' will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like {{bug|505826}} resolved ideally
 +
*** See https://github.com/moberhuber/eclipse.platform.rcptt-tests
 +
*** And https://github.com/eclipse-testing/eclipse-platform
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 27, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
'''Feb 21, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey
−
* Dani: Markus Keller taking over JDT UI
+
* Lars: {{Bug|512273}} Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and {{Bug|512319}} allow rebase
−
* John: M6 Splashscreen for Eclipsecon: {{bug|297355}}
+
** '''Agreement''' to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
−
* McQ: Removing Builds - SWT needs Linux-Motif, so only WPF about to be removed
+
** Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
−
** In discussions with Microsoft, it turned out that WPF is not required to get full Windows 7 experience under Win32
+
** '''AI Lars''' follow up on the bug
−
** XAML for styling was meant to be a cool idea but never got flying
+
* Martin: '''UI Testing'''
−
** Socialize people with this -- find whether people are inerested in contributing on this, if yes then we should support them
+
** [http://eclipse.org/rcptt RCPTT] is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
−
* Still working the IBM approval process for travelling to Eclipsecon
+
** Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
−
* Avoid merging major feature work after a milestone's Tuesday test pass
+
** When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
 +
** Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
 +
** Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
 +
*** Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
 +
** '''AI Martin''' follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
 +
** '''AI Alex''' share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
 +
** '''AI Lars''' play with the Reddeer API
 +
* Dani: '''Update on PPC''' drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs {{bug|512224}}
 +
** Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm '''AI Alex and Dani''' ask Denis
 +
* Dani: '''Neon.3 RC3''' please keep an eye on builds
 +
* Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 20, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
'''Feb 15, 2017'''
−
* McQ: Contacted Steve N, still interested but unlikely to get more energy for investing into Eclipse
+
−
* John: 3.5.2 test pass tomorrow, but yesterday's I-build been a mess
+
−
* McQ: Message about supporting Open JDK in a blog ... status should be "nice that it works but it's not a reference platform"
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 13, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
'''Feb 8, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
−
* McQ: U Manitoba students to help with technical communication (documentation, website, ...) for e4
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|509412}}''' - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
−
* Dani: New way of contributing Capabilities for Helios... are we OK? - John: yes, Platform Capabilities are in the SDK feature
+
** Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
−
** FYI: Incubating projects are
+
** Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
−
* Martin: Documenting the Platforms we routinely test on
+
** Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
−
** Unittest / Perftest machines are know. When John updated the Reference Platform doc, he made sure that he knows at least one committer on each platform
+
** Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
−
** A poll to know what Platform(s) are actively used (by committers) on milestone granularity would be very helpful - John going to set that up
+
* Dani: '''Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform'''
 +
** Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
 +
** Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
 +
* Dani: '''Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server'''
 +
** Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
 +
* Dani: '''Scenarios for UI Testing'''
 +
** Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
 +
* Dani: '''Sign Up for Security Rep'''
 +
** See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/tools-pmc/msg03927.html Wayne's message to PMCs] requesting PMC attendance
 +
** John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
 +
** Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
 +
** '''RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up''' since already following security issues
 +
* Dani+Alex: '''libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC'''
 +
** Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
 +
** Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
 +
** Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
 +
** Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
 +
** Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
 +
** If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
 +
** '''AI Dani+McQ''' find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
 +
* Alex: '''Update on Reddeer Testing Framework'''
 +
** A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
 +
** Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
 +
** Martin has been looking at [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT] which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
 +
** (call had to be closed at this point)
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
<strike>Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled</strike>
 +
<hr/>
 +
 
 +
'''Jan 24, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''New Jetty Version''' - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
 +
* Dani: '''javax.xml''' - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
 +
** Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
 +
* Alex: '''[http://jboss-reddeer.github.io/reddeer/ Reddeer Testing Framework]'''
 +
** JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
 +
** Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
 +
*** Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
 +
*** API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
 +
** Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
 +
*** Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
 +
*** No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
 +
** Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT], it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
 +
** Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
 +
*** Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
 +
** Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
 +
** Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --&gt; Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
 +
*** Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
 +
*** '''AI Alex''' to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' to try installing Jubula until next week
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.
 +
 
 +
<hr>
 +
'''Jan 17, 2017''' - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ
 +
* Sergey: '''Merging platform.resources with platform.ui'''
 +
** Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
 +
*** Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
 +
** Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
 +
** Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
 +
** Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
 +
*** McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
 +
** Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
 +
** Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even {{bug|509412}} was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
 +
** Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
 +
** McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
 +
* Lars: '''Removing javax.xml'''
 +
** Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
 +
** Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
 +
** Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
 +
** McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
 +
** Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
 +
**'''AI Lars''' send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
 +
* Dani: '''Project Updates'''
 +
** Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
 +
* McQ: '''UI Testing and Jubula'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 6, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Jeff
+
'''Jan 10, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck
−
* Agreed on 3.5.2 [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/freeze_plan_3_5_2.php freeze plan]
+
* Dani: '''Platform Bits on Maven Central''' - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
−
** Note RC2 is a week earlier to avoid colliding with Helios M5 week
+
* Dani: '''Board Committer Rep Elections''' opening
−
* Discussed Helios plan updates 2 {{bug|298200}}
+
* Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
−
** Update Java 7 plan item to indicate only working on publicly available bits. Some progress made on getting access to specs but going slowly.
+
* Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
−
** Update reference JRE's to latest version of each JRE
+
* Lars: '''Equinox move to Platform''' - no updates - '''AI Dani''' talk to Tom again
−
* Jeff will be away for next six weeks (vacation)
+
* McQ / AlexS: '''Jubula'''
−
* McQ to contact Steve to see if he still wishes to remain on PMC
+
** In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
 +
** Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
 +
** Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
 +
** AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
 +
*** For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
 +
*** Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
 +
*** UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
 +
*** Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
 +
*** Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
 +
*** Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure ('''AI AlexS to check''')
 +
*** Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
 +
**** Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' send slides
 +
*** '''AI Dani + Lars''' propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Revision as of 12:23, 20 February 2018

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

February 20, 2018 - Lars, Dani, McQ, Tom

  • Dani: Update on 4.7 RC3
  • Lars: Can we drop Windows XP support?
    • Lars: Big contribution comes in (https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=531097), dropping XP support might be a good motiviation to contribute more also to other people. Removing lots of code including the version checks will also result in a cleaner code base for maintenance and might improve performance.
    • Dani: IBM investigate if they officially drop XP
    • Tom: Do we need support XP with the latest Eclipse version?

--> Pending on the answer of the IBM team, will be discussed in next weeks call

  • Tom: OSGI CQs updated and approved for OSGi Service Platform 7.0 version


February 6, 2018 - Lars, Dani, McQ

  • Lars: Can we mark MInput and MInputPart for deletion (bug 509868)?
    • Dani: Before approving to mark them for deletion, someone has to investigate how much work needs to be done to do it. Both have over 50 references.
      • McQ agrees
  • Dani: Topic on ui-best-practices-working-group list: Replace "..." with an ellipses Unicode character
    • Looks good on Mac and is actually used by Mac OS, but less good on Windows. No info regarding Linux at this time
    • McQ:
      • Mac OS UI guidelines specify to use the ellipses character
      • SWT could do the right thing depending on the platform
  • Lars: view menu, minimize and maximize buttons look bad to him. Would like to replace the view menu with ellipses
    • Dani: Would have to change all three together. View menu is always there and not indicating an overflow
    • McQ: Windows 10 also uses a triangle, but upwards. Current view menu is used and familiar to users for at least more than 10 years.
    • Lars to file a bug report and send the bug number to the PMC
  • McQ: Should discuss in one of the next meetings how JDT can handle the new release cadence for Java
    • Dani: We will see how it goes with Java 11 (18.3)
  • Dani: How will we name the milestones in our new new release scheme?
    • Consensus to start with M1 after each release.
    • Up to planning council to decide the release naming convention. Lars: Would prefer year/month


January 30, 2018 - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • General Updates (Dani)
    • Shipped M5, still working some p2 issues
    • RC1 for Neon.3 next week, may need API changes after the freeze for junit 5 support updates
    • Discussion about the incubation for Java. Ongoing thread in jdt-dev list https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/jdt-dev/msg00964.html. The incubation features will be part of the release specification which implies they need to be implemented to be compliant. Spend time putting them into a release only to pull out later if they don’t finalize. Not clear there are tests added to the TCK. Alex asks if this effects us for Java 10, no not for Java 10. Java 10 only has local type reference, not huge delta of function from Java 9. No incubation in Java 10. But incubation may affect us for Java 11.
  • Info about infrastructure (Alex)
    • Foundation push to move to Jenkins. Releng has moved, uncovered issues with rest API and token exchange … disabled for now for Jenkins. Issue is being worked but only can be fixed once all is moved to Jenkins.
    • Platform HIPP moving to Jenkins tomorrow. Will be some downtime, should be less than an hour or so. May cause several issue. Issues in non-standard jobs with multiple repos etc. For Gerrit verifications should be fine. Let Alex know if there are issues. Alex to send a note when the migration occurs.
    • p2 issue is real. Other issues are pressing (infrastucture/build). Todor has a bug that he should be looking at. Not something happening in the past, but now the capabilities are being resolved. Issues happened with a hand crafted p2.inf file. Hopefully will scope down the p2.inf files. Alex to drive to determine if a respin is needed.
    • Need to monitor the p2 issue, determine how many are broken. Cannot just break 100s of folks without serious consideration. Why not revert? Alex says it is not an option and we should do everything possible to fix.
    • Lars asks about nominating more committers, perhaps that were rejected in the past. Now the Eclipse PMC can overlook the nomination process. Work with existing contributors showing interest and look for opportunities to sponsor them for committership.
  • Tip of the day (Clippy)
    • See Tips Framework
    • Tip of the Day or (Clippy) in coming contribution … looking for integration M6?
    • Lars thinks it is worth it. Dani disables such things by default, and also Lars. Alex find the function interesting. Others are also reviewing the patch.
    • Lars is moving forward with it. If it is very easy to disable and is stable on all platforms then it should be good.
    • Is there a concern about a solution that requires network … it doesn’t appear to be a concern.

January 16, 2018 - Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • Native builds at eclipse.org status (Lars):
    • Dani: swt is done for some time already
    • Dani: launchers after M5 is released to prevent breakage
  • GTK launcher changes (Alex):
    • Changes to not rely on X11 atoms but on dbus ready for review
    • Linux only as no other GTK platforms are currently built
  • Equinox CQs (Tom):
    • P2 capabilities patch from Todor and felix.scr update
    • Slow process risking M5
    • Alex: Ping Sharon asking for speedup if possible
  • Updates from Dani:
    • Photon plan update - BREE to be part of the build info
    • End game - Oxygen.3 and M5 - send to the list
    • Running tests against Java 9
  • Java 10 eclipse release (Dani):
    • Oxygen.3a or marketplace feature only - Agreement for oxygen.3a
    • Dani: Local Variable type inference support in a branch
    • Future releases - to be aligned with JVM releases if they prove to release on time
  • BREE updates recomendations
    • Dani: There are reasons to stay on older BREE
    • Alex: ease of getting jvm is the main concern here - if a contributor can't get jvm at that version easily we can't call it supported


Januar 09, 2018 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Updates from Dani:
    • Ian Skerrett is leaving the Eclipse foundation
    • Dani got nominated as committer representive
  • Planning council update
    • Dani: low participation in the last calls
    • Dani will talk with Melanie about it
    • Input required for the planning council for the API and feature freezes for the platform
  • API and feature freeze policy in platform
      • Alex: API and feature freeze in platform should be RC1, except breaking API which should be done in milestone build
      • everyone agrees to Alex suggestion-> agreed
  • Alex: SWT linux currently uses X-Windows specific API, which does not work on Wayland. This will be moved to a DBUS API to open file and open URL
  • Dani: Plan update, biggest change is for the component plan
    • Equinox plan has been added
    • Manual generated BREE list has been dropped from the plan. This list is still automatically generated for every I-Build
  • Launcher and natives build move from IBM to the foundation still in progress
    • (bug 528230) Build FileSystem native component on Eclipse Foundation Infra
    • (bug 528230) Build launcher on Eclipse Foundation Infra

December 12, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • P2 capabilities work breaking Oomph and CBI (bug 528408)
    • Alex: Hidden bug due to adopters using internals.
    • Alex: Code refactoring in p2 pushed to reduce the chance for such breakage.
    • Alex: Oomph fixed its codebase to properly check instances so it works with p2 both prior and after adding capabilities.
    • McQ: What do we do with p2?
    • Alex: Open up the project as much as we can and recruit new committers by being really welcoming to people.

-> Conclusion to not respin M4 due to this bug as it's internal API which projects should not have used.

  • Project plan update
    • Dani: No additional change came from anyone else in the PMC so update of executions environments and adding Java 9 are the only thing due.
  • Next meeting on January 9

December 05, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • Vacation: Dani will be in vacation end of week, so other PMC member need to cover for him if something comes up for M4.
  • Discussion about adding EGit to the SDK? (bug 528004)
    • Dani using a shared installed to manage the EGit plug-in.
    • McQ explains that he thinks EGit is required for a full package but does not feel strong about.
    • Alex: It depends what "SDK" means: SDK to develop plug-ins or SDK to develop Eclipse Platform. We agreed on the former.
    • Dani, Alex are against adding it because it adds maintaince burden and it is unclear which of the optional packages should be installed.
    • Tom, Lars have no strong opinions
    • All agree that managing to install this is an easy task

-> Conclusing to not include EGit in the SDK

  • URL handler registration of Eclipse with the OS
    • SAP plans to contribute a way to register Eclipse to certain URLs. If the user clicks on such a URL, Eclipse would open and be able to show the file. This could be useful for installation of new items in the marketplacen client https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=527579. VSCode allows this already vscode:extension/eamodio.gitlens.
    • Redhat had similar requirements in the past
    • Platform team expects that SAP will also maintain this contribution and take responsibility of it for future releases
    • Dani (after meeting): I think extending the current file based mechanism is OK, but we won't register any (including URL) handler

-> Conclusion to work on this enhancement together with SAP, Alex plans to dedicate some time for discussing the technical solution. SAP should open a new bug and link all related bugs to this top-level bug so that the technical details can be discussed

  • Discussion of building natives
    • moved building of SWT binaries for the 3 primary platforms to the Eclipse Foundation
    • unfortunately after that the Mac went down - fixed now
    • M4 SWT natives will be built on the Eclipse Foundation hardware
    • Launcher still to be moved

November 28, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Alex: Release Change announcement
    • Agreed that we won't mention the ramp-down process.
    • Agreed to add API removal details.
    • Still work in progress.
  • Dani: API Removal process for the new release model
  • Dani: Meeting notes
    • McQ suggested that who joins last has to do it. Dani: not so good since it won't contain the notes for the discussions that happened before.
    • Will do it based on rotation and ability to actually write down the notes.
    • Dani to do it for this call.
  • Dani: Photon plan update
    • Will add Java 9 as supported VM.
    • Anything else? If so, send Dani a note or update bug 527964
  • McQ: Rename Eclipse Project to Eclipse SDK
    • We should only do it when forced by the Foundation and/or Board
    • We would need a plan before starting such an effort.

November 14, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Tom

  • Dani:
    • Presented our new release model to Planning Council. Was welcomed. No objections. But needs discussion what the Release Train will do.
    • RC1 went well, RC2 this week.

November 07, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • For the 3 months releases, we have have a development freeze after RC1 until RC3. After RC3 master will be opened again for development. Development is possible until RC1, so this will result in a freeze period of approx. 2 weeks.
  • For releases versions of the platform we will use semantic versioning as before (4.8, 4.9, 4.10, ..)
  • Eclipse SDK will use versions not branding names unless the release train moves also the same cycle.
  • Splash will continue show the release year and month

October 31, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Martin, Alex,

  • Tom: Bugzilla Landing Page - EMO said both PMCs need to be contacted
    • Bug IDs, Equinox product and components remain in place, only the landing page will be updated
  • Dani: M3 Respin
    • Issue had been found by a team member, but got lost between different teams
    • Resolved and respun very fast, the fix is out now
  • Dani: Release Cycles and Java Alignment
    • Planning Council F2F meeting was at EclipseCon Europe; planning call will be on Thursday
    • Initially, felt like aligning with Java 18.3 was a good idea, but for now the plan is keeping the Oxygen SR rhythm and releasing Oxygen.3a aligned with Java
    • In case the Oracle release should slip, it will be most likely be named 18.4 (whatever month the release ends up in)
  • All: Platform Release Rhythm
    • At ECE, many people were surprised about changing release rhythm but the plan was generally appreciated
    • Should stick to the communicated Photon plan though and change only afterwards
    • Alex suggests promoting a Milestone build from master (properly marked up as such) aligned with the Java 18 release
      • This would promote master as something that can be used
      • After Photon, we will release 4 times from master - there won't be any maintenance builds any more
      • For the release train, there will also be release candidates.

October 24, 2017 - cancelled due to ECE

October 17, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars, Alex

  • Conf.system: Fallback to McQ's number is not a good solution (can't give out the moderator code)
    • Foundation (Denis) is aware of the problem, looking for a solution sooner than later
    • Skype group call, or zoom.us would work for Dani and McQ
  • Dani: bug 526065 Java 9 to Oxygen.1a beta update issue
    • Users who had the Java 9 beta installed and "update" to Oxygen.1a are broken
    • McQ: Updating from "beta" to "final" is not necessarily supposed to be working (Lars disagrees)
    • Not yet sure what's causing the issue .. p2 bug, or different groupID for Java9beta
    • Fix the issue if it looks like a real bug or easy to fix ... otherwise just post a message, preferredly on the Marketplace client (Dani: that part is done already)
  • Lars: Release Cycle Discussion
    • McQ still in favor of making every milestone a release
      • Alex thinks we're not there yet in terms of releng, there's still too many manual steps. Would prefer slower cadence (eg 3 months) until more automation is there (updating pom.xml, version mgmt, ...)
      • With 4 releases per year (like today) but no more maintenance branches/backports, there's potentially less work than today
      • Try starting with a release every 2nd milestone; fix automation; then strive for releasing every milestone.
      • Dani thinks the model shouldn't change in the middle of Photon; look for feedback then move to the new model next year
    • McQ: If we switch to the new model now (Oxygen.2), what do we lose?
      • Martin: Any bigger feature that would need to move into a branch? - Dani: Advanced Source Lookup
      • Dani: Also our rules about "no new features" and "PMC Approval" would need to change
      • Continue discussion in 2 weeks (skip next week due to EclipseCon)

October 10, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Oxygen.1a respin
    • Primary reason for respin was, that people who have existing XText installed would be broken when updating the Platform
    • Opportunity to piggy-back JDT critical fixes was welcome
  • Dani: Equinox Move - Review passed without objections, working on implementation now
    • Expecting less trouble than with the Platform and JDT merges recently
    • Foundation want to keep Equinox as a brand, therefore will be a subproject (beside Platform, JDT, PDE)
    • So to increase the committer base, the fast track option will now apply; also, more alignment in terms of PMC.
    • Confirmed again that we will ask Tom to join our PMC. Approval can be found in this thread.
  • Dani: Planning Council - Rolling Releases Update
    • Should remove some of the work maintaining 2 streams - simply release from master regularly
    • In the past, API breakage (migration guide) was allowed only once per year - how to deal with this moving forward
    • Handle with semantic versioning; how to give adopters sufficient time to adjust
    • There's usually 2 camps for every topic being discussed ... though practically, Platform sets the pace
    • Release Naming - New Name every quarter? Versioning scheme? (like 2017.4 or 17.04)
    • How to simplify processes (also in terms of IP), can the Foundation scale up? Perhaps not more work, but more deadlines
      • In terms of the Release Review, only the N&N and the Migration Guide are relevant; need to satisfy small and big consumers
  • Martin: Reddeer Contribution
    • When we last discussed this, it was an important criterion that any contributor can run the tests easily
    • Alex: Looks good, essentially boils down to running "mvn clean verify" in the PDE repo (or right-click > Run as Reddeer from the IDE) - AI Alex will have a video sent to the PMC list
  • Alex: API Removal in Context of Rolling Releases
    • Which Rules to apply for allowing removal of API; Allow removal in any release?
      • McQ: The real question is, how long it takes consumers to adopt to removal
      • Dani: Is more conservative regarding deletion - the value removing something is often smaller than the ripple it causes
      • McQ: If there is code in our codebase that significantly slows us down, it should be remove even if API
    • Martin: With more releases, there's less push to upgrade ; but will consumers know they are broken? - Semantic versioning should address that, but who really uses upper version ranges ... they have caused more pain than benefit in the past
    • Dani: In the past, with our 3-year deprecation plan, Major versions have not been updated even on announced removals...
    • McQ: If we are earnest about faster velocity, we have to fully adopt semantic versioning practices. If we as producers have done what we could, our job is done - consumers who don't use upper version ranges are on their own

October 3, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin

  • Conf system woes - Dani couldn't dial in, Denis restarted the bridge leaving Martin and Alex in a Zombie bridge
    • ACTION McQ will send out conf.details using IBM's bridge
  • bug 520720 Mickael's question on Performance improvement
    • Dani: There is already an asynchronous RequestLayout API for clients, and APIs already suggest clients use the async one
      • Therefore, changing the synchronous API to work asynchronously doesn't look right.
    • Alex: We seem to be mixing two aspects here -- agree regarding RequestLayout concerns, but why should the ProgressMonitor one be a problem?
      • Dani: Agree that the ProgressMonitor approach makes sense, but a very careful review is needed - existing code already subclasses ProgressMonitor, need to make sure that expected methods are still called
      • ACTION Dani will do a careful review of the ProgressMonitor part and deny the generic RequestLayout part
  • Dani: Equinox Restructuring request for the move is in, will work with Tom and Foundation forward
  • Dani: Oxygen.1a - RC2 is in for JUnit5 and Java9
    • Respin of Oxygen.1 for bug 520176 Mac 10.13 High Sierra problem? - Not currently planned, there will be 1a instead
    • A feature patch is another option, providing patched SWT; and, there's the workarounds
  • Dani: Rolling Release - 2 topics: rolling release, and alignment with Java Update Releases
    • Some projects on the train have alignment goals with other projects outside Java; will discuss again in the Planning Council
  • Alex: bug 522733 webkit crash - A workaround is available, in contact with webkit devs for a complete fix to keep Photon usable
    • Workaround would introduce a small memory leak, but only on the first instance of webkit created

September 26, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin

  • bug 520176 MacOSX 10.13 (High Sierra) Menus Disabled
    • Only non-English Locales are affected
    • For 4.7.1a and Photon, a fix is in
    • Foundation Press Release (Newsletter) is out with information how to work around
    • Tweets are around as well -- keep spreading the message
  • Equinox Move Review - progressing
  • Alex: bug 522733 GTK Crash on Close preventing IDE Restart - can it go into 4.7.1a ?
    • Seen with Fedora 27 (Webkitgtk 2.18)
    • Foundation wanted to keep Java9 stuff separate, so pushing it there might not even help
    • The issue is serious (hard crash preventing restart of the IDE), though fortunately not many people have that particular webkitgtk version yet
    • Investigate details and possible workarounds, then consider our options -- maybe a Foundation Newsletter similar to the OSX 10.13 issue

September 19, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Async APIs request from the eclipse-pmc list (not discussed today)
  • Lars: Java 6-month release cycles
    • Alex likes the 6 month idea - less backporting
    • McQ would ideally like full releases every 3 months (except not releasing anything unfinished)
    • Dani: If Java really delivers every 6 months (will they?), Eclipse could consider rolling releases every milestone. There is a doc from the Planning Council (Mélanie Bats) in that regard.
    • Dani: Support for the public JDKs will be limited to the current release only (6mo)
    • Risk: Oracle Java may be working on big features "in the background", if there is very little time adopting new features (current license doesn't allow releasing stuff built on Beta's) it's hard for Eclipse to keep up
    • Lars: Some teams already moving to Kotlin...
    • Dani: More discusssions planned at ECE, AC etc
    • AGREEMENT to wait for now for (a) the Planning Council announcement and (b) how Java will actually implement and live up to their plans. Work towards faster release cycles (that's a good message to the consumers anyways).
    • Will need to work on details. If there's more releases, and each one needs a review, it's more work on release records and reviews. Already on a good path here, paperwork reduced to a matter of an hour.
  • Dani: Java 9 (Oxygen.1a) round the door. Plan is a full release.
  • McQ: bug 520176 MacOS 10.13 menubar issue people at Apple are also looking at it. Biggest problem is that it's not 100% reproducible. Might end up with some System Properties to be set to resolve the problem.

September 12, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Dani

  • Dani asked Alex to look into bug 517063 with high prio. We need this for M2.
  • Dani: sub-project merge
    • McQ and Lars approved my message regarding sub-project. Will send out the note today.
    • Still an issue with IP log not being merged
    • Release engineers can no longer restart the HIPPs
  • Started to discuss Advise for performance enhancement making API methods behave async
    • We need more time to verify the fix and look at the patch. Will discuss and decide next week.

September 5, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Martin

  • Alex: bug 521639 Mac Signing Issues for Oxygen.1
    • 3 requests out of 5 failing, don't know yet why - webmasters assume hardware issues, trying to move to a different machine
    • RC4:
      • Security fix in p2 (bug 518031)
      • Changes in Releng scripts to run tests on different Mac machine

August 29, 2017 - McQ, Dani, Martin

  • All: Conference System Woes - 3 tries for McQ (race conditions?), 2 tries for Martin (silence first), 10 tries for Dani
  • Dani: Subproject Merge done after some hiccups, no complaints since Fri
    • Subprojects are now "archived" with a comment that they got merged into the parent project
    • AI Dani planning to send another notification to mailing lists:
      • former PLs to become Repo Maintainers responsible for signoff and planning
      • Bugzilla remaining the same
      • Some former subproject leads already stepped up as combined project co-leads (Lars, Lakshmi, Sarika)
    • McQ: Move forward towards the new structure, but there's also need to push for responsibility among the subcomponents (finding go-to persons...)
  • Dani: StyledText improvement request on the ML (Pluggable selection model)
    • point to the e4 incubator for experiments, encourage innovation though might be quite hard and pervasive
  • RC3 looking good (except for build issues on the Foundation side, no I-Build since Aug.22 - Mac DMG is at risk for RC3)
  • Dani away next week, please watch the list for approvals towards RC4 next week

August 22, 2017 - Alex, Dani, Martin

  • All: Conference System Woes - Dani had 7 minutes trouble dialing in; Alex was kicked out
  • Dani: Plan - AI Martin review
    • Target Platform reduced - removed too much? - and Subproject plans. Rest is copy-and-paste.
  • Dani: Subproject Merge - Everything approved, waiting for implementation by EMO.
  • Dani: RC2 this week - Still many Platform/UI bugs, Dani will make a pass moving out since Lars is on vacation
  • Martin: feature/bundle version issues
    • Dani: Checking versions is quite time consuming, there's no tooling solution for the workspace right now (but there are reports).
    • For branding bundles and features, rules are different than for others - Dani currently doing those, since few people have access
    • Currently we're looking good, but automation would be better than manual nagging

August 15, 2017 - Alex, Dani

  • Dani: subproject merge initiated - waiting for webmasters
  • Dani: Provided Photon (4.8) release record and plan - please provide comments
  • Alex and Dani discussed feature/bundle version issues - next builds should be better

August 8, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani

  • Eclipse Asterisk system is not working reliably (again). It took Dani 6 minutes until he could dial in (using the Swiss number - US number failed repeatedly). McQ can't dial in until 10 min later.
  • Dani: starting the planning record for Photon to announce participation in M1
    • Toplevel items: JUnit5, Java9. Subplans on the Wiki.
  • Dani: subproject merge - wanted to wait for M1, but should be done this week
  • Alex: ppc64be - Sravan is waiting on final decision whether it will be removed in Photon
    • Dani: PMC decision was settled, so removed from Eclipse plan - IBM might still continue building it for internal use

August 1, 2017 - no call

July 25, 2017 - Alex, Lars, Dani

  • project merge got go, Dani to implement it with webmaster and then send out the announcement this or next week. E-mail will also mention that existing project leads can become co-leads on Eclipse Platform
  • Discussion if CVS should be removed from the SDK build, Alex +1, Lars +1, Dani +1
  • Discussion if the remaining 2.0 compatibility layer can be removed, Dani: OK to remove but other plug-ins might still have dependencies to it, must the also updated, as well as the documentation

July 18, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • project merge review awaiting go from Wayne - Dani pinged again in the bug report
  • Dani will kick off planning for Photon a bit earlier since he will be in Bangalore the next 12 days. Platform UI already started.
  • M1 on August 11

July 11, 2017 - no meeting

July 4, 2017 - no meeting

June 27, 2017 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Equinox Merge to the Eclipse TLP
    • Keep Equinox as a separate Project, to allow independent Equinox releases without Platform (and keep Bugzilla simple)
    • The only argument for stronger integration would be getting more committers, but there is no strong need and we have the FastTrack process in place for that
  • Eclipse Merge of Component (Sub)Projects into Platform
    • Just 4 Projects: Platform, Equinox, JDT, PDE (plus the incubators for e4 and JDT)
    • Former (Sub)Project Leads to become "Component Leads", "Technology Owners" or "Repository Owners"
      • Repository Ownership is appealing as the structure is very clear (+1 Dani,Alex,McQ)
    • Platform Lead initially Dani, more Co-Leads could step up if they want
      • Main work is helping component leads if they can't come to a consensus - usually less work than PMC duties
  • Dani: JSR 376 Ballot
    • Public review reconsideration ballot got approved by all except Red Hat who abstained
    • Much progress in the past weeks, consensus except RH abstained
    • Looks like the OOBE of Java9 would tolerate reflection, currently looks like on track for a September Release
  • Vacations many people will be off next week, especially in the U.S.
    • PMC call will be skipped next week

June 20, 2017 - MQ, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Attracting new contributors discussions - code cleanup and deletion of old paths needed
    • Alex: Big issue to get people working on codebase and considering many now irrelevant paths in the codebase
    • Dani: Cleanups should be done by the one starting them through the whole SDK
    • Lars: Not feasible as some projects are slower pace moving and the change might require more effort than one can or is willing to spend in his free time
    • Alex: Great opportunity to have new people joining by doing simple tasks and grow them into full committers
    • McQ: We have to come up with list of items we would like to get cleaned and properly follow our deprecation policy even if the migration guide for Photon get really big with things we schedule for removal in the future.
  • Dani: Sub-projects merge
    • Name of the new project - McQ: Everyone refers to it as Platform so natural choice it is
    • JDT, PDE, Platform (subprojects) to become single project
    • Person responsible for some code area in the merged project - to be further dicussed
  • Dani: Dropping Xulrunner support - PMC to approve it in the bug

Juni 13, 2017 - MQ, Dani, Lars

  • Dani: Release review for 4.7 was successful
  • Dani: Rebuild for 4.7RCa required due to new EMF version and a fix for a critical bug which resulted in duplicated menu entries
  • Merge of the sub-projects
    • Planned for M1, desired to be coordinated with the move of Equinox to Platform
    • We prefer to keep the project pages and wikis so that all the information is kept
    • Preferable we want to have one committer list for Eclipse platform
    • Dani to check with foundation how the merge can be done

May 30, 2017 - Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Dani: Please approve or disapprove the release review
  • Dani: Starting the Debugger doesn't work always
    • Occurs for Lars, but isn't reproducible - one of the top 3 things to fix if steps to reproduce are found
    • Lars: Equinox replaced the DS implementation in 4.7, the issue is probably related
    • Failure is totally random: On a very slow Virtual Machine, it failed almost always (9 failures out of 10); on other machine it works most of the time; even after working fine 3 times, it may fail the 4th time; seems to occur more frequently on older machines than newer ones.
    • Martin: try with a reverse debugger like Chronon ?
      • Should help by just collecting a log; and when the failure occurs, "play back" the log to understand under what condition the race condition occurs; the a reproducible case is available, and the log can also be sent around between different developers for investigation, potentiall also to Apache Felix upstream
  • Dani: Equinox Launcher Issues
    • During M7, a change was made to ignore certain command-line arguments
    • This caused 2 regressions - bug 517013 and bug 516349 MacOSX restart regression
    • Java 9 will probably change the parameters again, see bug 516911 :(
    • It's getting too late to make any more changes to the Launcher. Re-compiling on different hardware has already caused bug 517013, it's possible that more issues (not yet known) might be caused by the rebuild. With Java 9 probably changing again, we don't win much by rebuilding to try and align with something that's not yet released.
      • Option A: Put options into the eclipse.ini -- today it works for both Java 8 and Java 9
      • Option B: Add the "probably proposed" new option to the launcher, will need to rebuild the launcher again
      • Option C: Revert the launcher to what it was before (and well tested) back to M6 - for running with Java 9, the options have to be added manually
    • Users will have to read on a webpage what needs to be done for Java 9 launching; for Eclipse SDK, a single option is needed - some add-on components
      • Additional complexity: Different JVMs need different options (IBM, Oracle...)
      • Martin: bug 517452 Introduce a fallback mechanism to the launcher, which reads the Java ID and loads 'eclipse-javaID.ini' with a fallback to 'eclipse.ini', but does not seem reasonable for Oxygen since too late
      • Better to have a clean story: At IBM, the entire build environment changed ... reverting gets us back to a bullet-proof launcher that was tested for 7 milestones ... will work safely with Java 8, for Java 9 people will have to read the N&N or StackOverflow to find out about the right arguments - same as in Neon
  • AGREEMENT to revert the Launcher to the M6 version

May 23, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: Apache Batik XXE Vulnerability
    • Alex: Moving to Batik 1.9 would be good, but there is so much UI breakage that it's not viable for Oxygen
  • Martin: Bugs discovered during RC test cycle
    • Surprised that some low-priority issues do get attention (bug 517108) while others get no response at all (bug 517013
    • Dani: Only interested in severe issues and regressions - send message to platform-releng-dev with severe regressions found
    • Dani: Please +1 the Gerrit for bug 517108

May 16, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
    • Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
  • bug 509922 Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
    • Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
    • Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
  • Test failures: Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
    • Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
    • CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
    • UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
  • bug 516114 Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
    • Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
    • The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
    • That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
    • Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
      • The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
    • AGREEMENT: In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
      • Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
      • McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
  • Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
  • Alex: Project Structure
    • Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
    • Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
    • In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
    • Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
    • McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
    • Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
    • AGREEMENT to move forward on this, with a Platform Leadership group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.

May 9, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: JSR376 Jigsaw: 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
    • From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
    • JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
    • For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
    • JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
  • Dani: M7/RC0 - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
    • When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
      1. Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
      2. Section forms layout
  • Dani: httpcore 4.4.1 -> 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility
    • Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
    • People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
    • Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
    • Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
    • Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
    • AGREEMENT to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
  • Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
  • Dani: Release Review, does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
    • All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
    • McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
    • Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
    • Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
    • AGREEMENT to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.

May 2, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Lars: Regex Evaluator Plugin
    • Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
    • Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
    • McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
    • AGREEMENT to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
  • Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
  • Dani: JSR Jigsaw Ballot
    • Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard

Apr 25, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Neon.3a
    • Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
      • AI Alex tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
      • Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem

Apr 18, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Dani: RH and Java9 Jigsaw
    • Very good write-up linked from the AC Mailinglist - see also follow-up
    • Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
  • Dani: Neon.3 Respin
    • Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
  • Lars: Glance Migration to e4 and/or Platform
    • e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
  • Lars
    • JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache

Apr 11, 2017 - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
  • Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.

Apr 04, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Martin: bug 514257 and cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue
    • Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
    • Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
    • Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
      • Commons Logging is not a Singleton
    • Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
  • Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
  • Dani: PPC - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week

Mar 28, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Replacement for Sergey
    • let's wait and see how things go
    • next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
  • Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
    • all agree
    • McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
  • Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
  • Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)

Mar 21, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Dirk Fauth Requests on eclipse-pmc
    • Alex agrees with Dani
    • Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
    • Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
  • Dani: Szymon Ptasiewicz

Mar 14, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Java 9 readiness - see cross-project-issues-dev
    • Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
      • Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
    • Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the Java 9 Readiness wiki can show violations
      • Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
      • Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
    • Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
    • All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
      • This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
    • Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
  • Dani: JUnit 5 considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
    • Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
  • Dani: 2 Platform Issues in M6
    • platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
    • major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
      • In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
      • In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
  • Alex: Generic Editor and Testing
    • Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
    • Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
    • Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
    • In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"

Mar 7, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars

  • Dani: 4.6.3 Updates - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
  • Dani: 4.7M7 Update - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
  • Dani: Java 9 / Planning Council Update - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
  • Lars: Platform.Resources Leadership after Sergey Leaving
    • Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
    • Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
    • Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
    • Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
    • Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept

Feb 28, 2017 - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Alex: Short update on Neon.3
    • 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
    • PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
  • Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
  • Martin: RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing

Feb 21, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey

  • Lars: bug 512273 Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and bug 512319 allow rebase
    • Agreement to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
    • Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
    • AI Lars follow up on the bug
  • Martin: UI Testing
    • RCPTT is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
    • Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
    • When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
    • Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
    • Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
      • Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
    • AI Martin follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
    • AI Alex share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
    • AI Lars play with the Reddeer API
  • Dani: Update on PPC drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs bug 512224
    • Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm AI Alex and Dani ask Denis
  • Dani: Neon.3 RC3 please keep an eye on builds
  • Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week

Feb 15, 2017

Feb 8, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: bug 509412 - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
    • Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
    • Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
    • Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
    • Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
  • Dani: Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform
    • Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
    • Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
  • Dani: Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server
    • Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
  • Dani: Scenarios for UI Testing
    • Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
  • Dani: Sign Up for Security Rep
    • See Wayne's message to PMCs requesting PMC attendance
    • John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
    • Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
    • RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up since already following security issues
  • Dani+Alex: libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC
    • Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
    • Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
    • Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
    • Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
    • Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
    • If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
    • AI Dani+McQ find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
  • Alex: Update on Reddeer Testing Framework
    • A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
    • Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
    • Martin has been looking at RCPTT which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
    • (call had to be closed at this point)

Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled

Jan 24, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: New Jetty Version - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
  • Dani: javax.xml - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
    • Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
  • Alex: Reddeer Testing Framework
    • JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
    • Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
      • Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
      • API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
    • Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
      • Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
      • No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
    • Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about RCPTT, it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
    • Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
      • Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
    • Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
    • Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --> Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
      • Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
      • AI Alex to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
      • AI Martin to try installing Jubula until next week
      • AI Martin ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.

Jan 17, 2017 - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ

  • Sergey: Merging platform.resources with platform.ui
    • Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
      • Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
    • Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
    • Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
    • Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
      • McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
    • Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
    • Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even bug 509412 was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
    • Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
    • McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
  • Lars: Removing javax.xml
    • Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
    • Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
    • Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
    • McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
    • Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
    • AI Lars send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
  • Dani: Project Updates
    • Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
  • McQ: UI Testing and Jubula

Jan 10, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck

  • Dani: Platform Bits on Maven Central - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
  • Dani: Board Committer Rep Elections opening
  • Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
  • Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
  • Lars: Equinox move to Platform - no updates - AI Dani talk to Tom again
  • McQ / AlexS: Jubula
    • In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
    • Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
    • Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
    • AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
      • For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
      • Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
      • UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
      • Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
      • Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
      • Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure (AI AlexS to check)
      • Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
        • Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
      • AI AlexS send slides
      • AI Dani + Lars propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
      • AI AlexS check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started

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