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= Documents =
 
= Documents =
 
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
  
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= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 +
'''December 12, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom
 +
* P2 capabilities work breaking Oomph and CBI ({{bug|528408}})
 +
** Alex: Hidden bug due to adopters using internals.
 +
** Alex: Code refactoring in p2 pushed to reduce the chance for such breakage.
 +
** Alex: Oomph fixed its codebase to properly check instances so it works with p2 both prior and after adding capabilities.
 +
** McQ: What do we do with p2?
 +
** Alex: Open up the project as much as we can and recruit new committers by being really welcoming to people.
  
'''May 24, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin
+
-> Conclusion to not respin M4 due to this bug as it's internal API which projects should not have used.
* Dani: '''IP Log Generator''' - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
+
* Dani: '''Release Review''' - Deadline next week (June 2)
+
* Dani: '''Deprecation Request from Brian'''
+
** Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
+
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date'''
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
+
** Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
+
** Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
+
** This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
+
* Dani: '''Neon Status'''
+
** Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time
+
  
<hr/>
+
* Project plan update
'''May 17, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
+
** Dani: No additional change came from anyone else in the PMC so update of executions environments and adding Java 9 are the only thing due.
* Dani: '''{{Bug|475184}} Neon Plan Update 2'''
+
* Next meeting on January 9
** Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
+
** SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
+
*** Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
+
**** Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
+
*** Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
+
** Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
+
** '''AI Dani''' to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
+
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date''' - EMO: To be decided per project
+
** IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
+
** Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
+
*** gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
+
** Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
+
* Dani: '''Policy for Neon.Update Releases''' - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
+
** Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
+
** Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
+
** Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - '''decision''': discuss feature by feature at PMC
+
** Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
+
** In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
+
* Dani: '''Neon RC2 Builds Update'''
+
** Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
+
** Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
+
** GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
+
** Lars: {{bug|493477}} detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC
+
  
<hr/>
+
'''December 05, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom
'''May 10, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
+
* Vacation: Dani will be in vacation end of week, so other PMC member need to cover for him if something comes up for M4.
* Dani: '''Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases'''
+
** Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
+
* Martin: '''RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2'''
+
** GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
+
*** Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
+
** Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
+
*** Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
+
*** There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
+
*** Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
+
** Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
+
*** Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
+
*** Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)
+
  
<hr/>
+
* Discussion about adding EGit to the SDK? ({{bug|528004}})
'''May 3, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
+
** Dani using a shared installed to manage the EGit plug-in.
* [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02598.html Brian's request on the PMC list]
+
** McQ explains that he thinks EGit is required for a full package but does not feel strong about.
** McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
+
** Alex: It depends what "SDK" means: SDK to develop plug-ins or SDK to develop Eclipse Platform. We agreed on the former.
** Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
+
** Dani, Alex are against adding it because it adds maintaince burden and it is unclear which of the optional packages should be installed.
** Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...  
+
** Tom, Lars have no strong opinions
** McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
+
** All agree that managing to install this is an easy task
** Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
+
** '''ACTION''' McQ to -1 and argue why.
+
  
* Alex: '''Update on Accessibility'''
+
-> Conclusing to not include EGit in the SDK
** broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
+
** due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
+
** Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
+
*** and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
+
** Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !
+
  
<hr/>
+
* Impact of cross discussion from David about API changes in which David implied that the platform cannot do API breakages
'''April 26, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
** Dani clarified with David on the cross-mailing list, no changes for us for the process, as we only remove announced. See https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev/msg15032.html
* Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
+
* Alex: '''Accessibility''' - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
+
** Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
+
** McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
+
* Alex: '''Platform.ui generification of project'''
+
** Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
+
** McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
+
** Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
+
** Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
+
** '''ACTION Alex''' to prepare a message for review and then send that.
+
* Lars: '''Copyright discussion'''
+
** Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
+
** The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
+
* Dani: '''Update on FEEP'''
+
** Paul not reached out yet
+
** A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
+
* Dani: '''Update on M7'''
+
** Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
+
** Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full
+
  
<br/>
+
* URL handler registration of Eclipse with the OS
'''April 19, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)
+
** SAP plans to contribute a way to register Eclipse to certain URLs. If the user clicks on such a URL, Eclipse would open and be able to show the file. This could be useful for installation of new items in the marketplacen client https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=527579. VSCode allows this already vscode:extension/eamodio.gitlens.
* Dani: '''IP Stuff''' on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
+
** Redhat had similar requirements in the past
* Dani: '''FEEP''' discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
+
** Platform team expects that SAP will also maintain this contribution and take responsibility of it for future releases
** General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
+
** Dani (after meeting): I think extending the current file based mechanism is OK, but we won't register any (including URL) handler
** Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
+
** Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
+
* Dani: '''All PMC please review and +1 API requests''' when you find time
+
** McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
+
* '''Reviews vs. Features'''
+
** Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora
+
  
<br/>
+
-> Conclusion to work on this enhancement together with SAP, Alex plans to dedicate some time for discussing the technical solution. SAP should open a new bug and link all related bugs to this top-level bug so that the technical details can be discussed
'''April 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex
+
* Lars: '''Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement'''
+
** [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=485257#c13 bug 485257_c13] EMO: All information is in the git repos
+
** McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
+
** Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
+
** '''ACTION''' McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
+
  
* Lars: '''{{bug|490012}} Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE'''
+
* Discussion of building natives
** Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
+
** moved building of SWT binaries for the 3 primary platforms to the Eclipse Foundation
** Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
+
** unfortunately after that the Mac went down - fixed now
** Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
+
** M4 SWT natives will be built on the Eclipse Foundation hardware
** '''DECISION''' to get rid of the strict error per project.
+
** Launcher still to be moved
  
* Dani: '''{{bug|475934}} API Change on model processing order'''
+
'''November 28, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
** Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
+
* Alex: Release Change announcement
** McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
+
** Agreed that we won't mention the ramp-down process.
** McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
+
** Agreed to add API removal details.
*** Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
+
** Still work in progress.
*** Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
+
* Dani: API Removal process for the new release model
*** Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
+
** Agreed to allow removal announcement in ever of the 4 releases. As a consequence every release can have API removals.
** Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
+
** https://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse/API_Central/Deprecation_Policy already reflects this.
** '''DECISION''' to allow making the change and announce widely.
+
* Dani: Meeting notes
 +
** McQ suggested that who joins last has to do it. Dani: not so good since it won't contain the notes for the discussions that happened before.
 +
** Will do it based on rotation and ability to actually write down the notes.
 +
** Dani to do it for this call.
 +
* Dani: Photon plan update
 +
** Will add Java 9 as supported VM.
 +
** Anything else? If so, send Dani a note or update {{bug|527964}}
 +
* McQ: Rename Eclipse Project to Eclipse SDK
 +
** We should only do it when forced by the Foundation and/or Board
 +
** We would need a plan before starting such an effort.
  
* Dani: '''FEEP and EMO Hiring Update'''
+
'''November 14, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Tom
** EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
+
* Dani:
** Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
+
** Presented our new release model to Planning Council. Was welcomed. No objections. But needs discussion what the Release Train will do.
** Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
+
** RC1 went well, RC2 this week.
  
* Dani: '''IDE-dev proposal'''
+
'''November 07, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars
** People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
+
* For the 3 months releases, we have have a development freeze after RC1 until RC3. After RC3 master will be opened again for development. Development is possible until RC1, so this will result in a freeze period of approx. 2 weeks.
** Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
+
* For releases versions of the platform we will use semantic versioning as before (4.8, 4.9, 4.10, ..)
*** McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
+
* Eclipse SDK will use versions not branding names unless the release train moves also the same cycle.
*** OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.
+
* Splash will continue show the release year and month
  
<hr/>
+
'''October 31, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Alex,
'''April 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
+
* Tom: '''Bugzilla Landing Page''' - EMO said both PMCs need to be contacted
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
+
** Bug IDs, Equinox product and components remain in place, only the landing page will be updated
** Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
+
* Dani: '''M3 Respin'''
** Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
+
** Issue had been found by a team member, but got lost between different teams
** Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
+
** Resolved and respun very fast, the fix is out now
* Dani: '''Solaris 32-bit'''
+
* Dani: '''Release Cycles and Java Alignment'''
** Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
+
** Planning Council F2F meeting was at EclipseCon Europe; planning call will be on Thursday
** Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
+
** Initially, felt like aligning with Java 18.3 was a good idea, but for now the plan is keeping the Oxygen SR rhythm and releasing Oxygen.3a aligned with Java
*** Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
+
** In case the Oracle release should slip, it will be most likely be named 18.4 (whatever month the release ends up in)
** McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
+
* All: '''Platform Release Rhythm'''
* Dani: '''New Solstice Welcome'''
+
** At ECE, many people were surprised about changing release rhythm but the plan was generally appreciated
** Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
+
** Should stick to the communicated Photon plan though and change only afterwards
** Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
+
** Alex suggests promoting a Milestone build from master (properly marked up as such) aligned with the Java 18 release
** McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
+
*** This would promote master as something that can be used
* Alex: '''FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)'''
+
*** After Photon, we will release 4 times from master - there won't be any maintenance builds any more
** "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
+
*** For the release train, there will also be release candidates.
*** Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
+
*** It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
+
*** McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
+
** Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
+
*** '''AI Dani''' send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
+
*** '''AI Martin''' compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
+
** Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
+
** Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
+
*** McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
+
*** Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
+
*** McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal '''Transparency''' on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
+
*** McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
+
**** Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: '''THIS''' is what the FEEP should have adressed !
+
** Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
+
** Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
+
*** McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
+
** Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
+
* Lars '''Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy'''
+
** Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).
+
  
<hr/>
+
<strike>October 24, 2017 - cancelled due to ECE</strike>
'''March 29, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex
+
* Lars: '''PDE Build in Maintenance''' - Officially state this ?
+
** PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
+
** Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
+
** McQ: '''DECISION''' Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
+
* Lars: '''Integrate more projects into Platform UI?'''
+
** Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
+
** Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
+
** Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
+
** '''DECISION''' to not merge projects at this time.
+
* Lars: '''Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list'''
+
** McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
+
** Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
+
** Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. '''AI Dani''' notify mailing list.
+
* Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
+
** Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 22, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
'''October 17, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars, Alex
* Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
+
* '''Conf.system:''' Fallback to McQ's number is not a good solution (can't give out the moderator code)
* Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
+
** Foundation (Denis) is aware of the problem, looking for a solution sooner than later
* Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
+
** Skype group call, or zoom.us would work for Dani and McQ
* Discussion about Che
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|526065}} Java 9 to Oxygen.1a beta update issue'''
** McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
+
** Users who had the Java 9 beta installed and "update" to Oxygen.1a are broken
** Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
+
** McQ: Updating from "beta" to "final" is not necessarily supposed to be working (Lars disagrees)
** McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?
+
** Not yet sure what's causing the issue .. p2 bug, or different groupID for Java9beta
 +
** Fix the issue if it looks like a real bug or easy to fix ... otherwise just post a message, preferredly on the Marketplace client (''Dani: that part is done already'')
 +
* Lars: '''Release Cycle Discussion'''
 +
** McQ still in favor of making every milestone a release
 +
*** Alex thinks we're not there yet in terms of releng, there's still too many manual steps. Would prefer slower cadence (eg 3 months) until more automation is there (updating pom.xml, version mgmt, ...)
 +
*** With 4 releases per year (like today) but no more maintenance branches/backports, there's potentially less work than today
 +
*** Try starting with a release every 2nd milestone; fix automation; then strive for releasing every milestone.
 +
*** Dani thinks the model shouldn't change in the middle of Photon; look for feedback then move to the new model next year
 +
** McQ: If we switch to the new model now (Oxygen.2), what do we lose?
 +
*** Martin: Any bigger feature that would need to move into a branch? - Dani: Advanced Source Lookup
 +
*** Dani: Also our rules about "no new features" and "PMC Approval" would need to change
 +
*** '''Continue discussion in 2 weeks''' (skip next week due to EclipseCon)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 15, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
'''October 10, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex, Martin
* Dani: '''Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)'''
+
* Dani: '''Oxygen.1a respin'''
* Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
+
** Primary reason for respin was, that people who have existing XText installed would be broken when updating the Platform
* McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
+
** Opportunity to piggy-back JDT critical fixes was welcome
* Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
+
* Dani: '''Equinox Move''' - Review passed without objections, working on implementation now
* Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
+
** Expecting less trouble than with the Platform and JDT merges recently
** Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
+
** Foundation want to keep Equinox as a brand, therefore will be a subproject (beside Platform, JDT, PDE)
** Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
+
** So to increase the committer base, the fast track option will now apply; also, more alignment in terms of PMC.
** Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
+
** Confirmed again that we will ask Tom to join our PMC. Approval can be found in [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg03166.html this thread].
* VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
+
* Dani: '''Planning Council - Rolling Releases Update'''
** Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
+
** Should remove some of the work maintaining 2 streams - simply release from master regularly
** Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)
+
** In the past, API breakage (migration guide) was allowed only once per year - how to deal with this moving forward
 
+
** Handle with semantic versioning; how to give adopters sufficient time to adjust
'''March 8, 2016''' - No call
+
** There's usually 2 camps for every topic being discussed ... though practically, Platform sets the pace
 +
** Release Naming - New Name every quarter? Versioning scheme? (like 2017.4 or 17.04)
 +
** How to simplify processes (also in terms of IP), can the Foundation scale up? Perhaps not more work, but more deadlines
 +
*** In terms of the Release Review, only the N&N and the Migration Guide are relevant; need to satisfy small and big consumers
 +
* Martin: '''Reddeer Contribution'''
 +
** When we last discussed this, it was an important criterion that any contributor can run the tests easily
 +
** Alex: Looks good, essentially boils down to running "mvn clean verify" in the PDE repo (or right-click > Run as Reddeer from the IDE) - '''AI Alex''' will have a video sent to the PMC list
 +
* Alex: '''API Removal in Context of Rolling Releases'''
 +
** Which Rules to apply for allowing removal of API; Allow removal in any release?
 +
*** McQ: The real question is, how long it takes consumers to adopt to removal
 +
*** Dani: Is more conservative regarding deletion - the value removing something is often smaller than the ripple it causes
 +
*** McQ: If there is code in our codebase that significantly slows us down, it should be remove even if API
 +
** Martin: With more releases, there's less push to upgrade ; but will consumers know they are broken? - Semantic versioning should address that, but who really uses upper version ranges ... they have caused more pain than benefit in the past
 +
** Dani: In the past, with our 3-year deprecation plan, Major versions have not been updated even on announced removals...
 +
** McQ: If we are earnest about faster velocity, we '''have to''' fully adopt semantic versioning practices. If we as producers have done what we could, our job is done - consumers who don't use upper version ranges are on their own
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 1, 2016''' - Dani, Martin
+
'''October 3, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin
* Dani OOO next week
+
* '''Conf system woes''' - Dani couldn't dial in, Denis restarted the bridge leaving Martin and Alex in a Zombie bridge
* Alex: '''{{bug|179924}} SSH-agent authentication''' 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
+
** '''ACTION McQ''' will send out conf.details using IBM's bridge
** Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
+
* {{bug|520720}} Mickael's question on Performance improvement
** Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
+
** Dani: There is already an asynchronous RequestLayout API for clients, and APIs already suggest clients use the async one
* EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.
+
*** Therefore, changing the synchronous API to work asynchronously doesn't look right.
 +
** Alex: We seem to be mixing two aspects here -- agree regarding RequestLayout concerns, but why should the ProgressMonitor one be a problem?
 +
*** Dani: Agree that the ProgressMonitor approach makes sense, but a very careful review is needed - existing code already subclasses ProgressMonitor, need to make sure that expected methods are still called
 +
*** '''ACTION Dani''' will do a careful review of the ProgressMonitor part and deny the generic RequestLayout part
 +
* Dani: '''Equinox Restructuring''' request for the move is in, will work with Tom and Foundation forward
 +
* Dani: '''Oxygen.1a''' - RC2 is in for JUnit5 and Java9
 +
** Respin of Oxygen.1 for {{bug|520176}} Mac 10.13 High Sierra problem? - Not currently planned, there will be 1a instead
 +
** A feature patch is another option, providing patched SWT; and, there's the workarounds
 +
* Dani: '''Rolling Release''' - 2 topics: rolling release, and alignment with Java Update Releases
 +
** Some projects on the train have alignment goals with other projects outside Java; will discuss again in the Planning Council
 +
* Alex: '''{{bug|522733}} webkit crash''' - A workaround is available, in contact with webkit devs for a complete fix to keep Photon usable
 +
** Workaround would introduce a small memory leak, but only on the first instance of webkit created
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 23, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex
 
* Dani: '''Mars.2 is on track'''
 
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
 
** EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
 
* Dani: '''Update on Welcome'''
 
** Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
 
* McQ: '''Scrollbars on Windows''' and their appearance
 
** Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
 
** Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
 
** McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
 
** Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
 
** Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
 
** Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''September 26, 2017''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin
 
+
* {{bug|520176}} '''MacOSX 10.13 (High Sierra) Menus Disabled'''
'''February 16, 2016''' - Alex, Dani, Martin
+
** Only non-English Locales are affected
* no topics
+
** For 4.7.1a and Photon, a fix is in
 +
** Foundation [https://www.eclipse.org/org/press-release/20170925criticalbug.php Press Release (Newsletter)] is out with information how to work around
 +
** Tweets are around as well -- keep spreading the message
 +
* '''Equinox Move Review''' - progressing
 +
* Alex: {{bug|522733}} '''GTK Crash on Close preventing IDE Restart''' - can it go into 4.7.1a ?
 +
** Seen with Fedora 27 (Webkitgtk 2.18)
 +
** Foundation wanted to keep Java9 stuff separate, so pushing it there might not even help
 +
** The issue is serious (hard crash preventing restart of the IDE), though fortunately not many people have that particular webkitgtk version yet
 +
** Investigate details and possible workarounds, then consider our options -- maybe a Foundation Newsletter similar to the OSX 10.13 issue
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 
+
'''September 19, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars
'''February 9, 2016''' - Alex, McQ, Dani
+
* '''Async APIs request from the eclipse-pmc list''' (not discussed today)
* Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
+
* Lars: '''Java 6-month release cycles'''
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|466370}} Welcome Screen redesign
+
** Alex likes the 6 month idea - less backporting
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|472614}} Smart Project Importer
+
** McQ would ideally like full releases every 3 months (except not releasing anything unfinished)
 +
** Dani: If Java really delivers every 6 months (will they?), Eclipse could consider rolling releases every milestone. There is a doc from the Planning Council (Mélanie Bats) in that regard.
 +
** Dani: Support for the public JDKs will be limited to the current release only (6mo)
 +
** Risk: Oracle Java may be working on big features "in the background", if there is very little time adopting new features (current license doesn't allow releasing stuff built on Beta's) it's hard for Eclipse to keep up
 +
** Lars: Some teams already moving to Kotlin...
 +
** Dani: More discusssions planned at ECE, AC etc
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to wait for now for (a) the Planning Council announcement and (b) how Java will actually implement and live up to their plans. Work towards faster release cycles (that's a good message to the consumers anyways).
 +
** Will need to work on details. If there's more releases, and each one needs a review, it's more work on release records and reviews. Already on a good path here, paperwork reduced to a matter of an hour.
 +
* Dani: Java 9 (Oxygen.1a) round the door. Plan is a full release.
 +
* McQ: {{bug|520176}} '''MacOS 10.13 menubar issue''' people at Apple are also looking at it. Biggest problem is that it's not 100% reproducible. Might end up with some System Properties to be set to resolve the problem.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''September 12, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
 +
* Dani asked Alex to look into {{bug|517063}} with high prio. We need this for M2.
 +
* Dani: sub-project merge
 +
** McQ and Lars approved my message regarding sub-project. Will send out the note today.
 +
** Still an issue with IP log not being merged
 +
** Release engineers can no longer restart the HIPPs
 +
* Started to discuss [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg03116.html Advise for performance enhancement making API methods behave async]
 +
** We need more time to verify the fix and look at the patch. Will discuss and decide next week.
  
'''February 2, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
'''September 5, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Martin
* Dani: '''Foundation Hires''' - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
+
* Alex: {{bug|521639}} '''Mac Signing Issues for Oxygen.1'''
* Dani: '''Neon M5''' went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
+
** 3 requests out of 5 failing, don't know yet why - webmasters assume hardware issues, trying to move to a different machine
* Dani: '''CQ Deadline''' on Feb.12 for Neon
+
** RC4:
* Dani: {{bug|486647}} for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
+
*** Security fix in p2 ({{bug|518031}})
** With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
+
*** Changes in Releng scripts to run tests on different Mac machine
** Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
+
*** Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
+
*** We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
+
*** Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
+
** Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 26, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars
+
'''August 29, 2017''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
* Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
+
* All: '''Conference System Woes''' - 3 tries for McQ (race conditions?), 2 tries for Martin (silence first), 10 tries for Dani
* Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
+
* Dani: '''Subproject Merge''' done after some hiccups, no complaints since Fri
* Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track
+
** Subprojects are now "archived" with a comment that they got merged into the parent project
 +
** '''AI Dani''' planning to send another notification to mailing lists:
 +
*** former PLs to become Repo Maintainers responsible for signoff and planning
 +
*** Bugzilla remaining the same
 +
*** Some former subproject leads already stepped up as combined project co-leads (Lars, Lakshmi, Sarika)
 +
** McQ: Move forward towards the new structure, but there's also need to push for responsibility among the subcomponents (finding go-to persons...)
 +
* Dani: '''StyledText improvement request on the ML''' (Pluggable selection model)
 +
** point to the e4 incubator for experiments, encourage innovation though might be quite hard and pervasive
 +
* RC3 looking good (except for build issues on the Foundation side, no I-Build since Aug.22 - Mac DMG is at risk for RC3)
 +
* Dani away next week, please watch the list for approvals towards RC4 next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 19, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
'''August 22, 2017''' - Alex, Dani, Martin
* Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
+
* All: '''Conference System Woes''' - Dani had 7 minutes trouble dialing in; Alex was kicked out
* Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
+
* Dani: '''Plan''' - '''AI Martin''' review
** Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
+
** Target Platform reduced - removed too much? - and Subproject plans. Rest is copy-and-paste.
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''PDE Build''' - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
+
* Dani: '''Subproject Merge''' - Everything approved, waiting for implementation by EMO.
** Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement '''in the Platform'''
+
* Dani: '''RC2 this week''' - Still many Platform/UI bugs, Dani will make a pass moving out since Lars is on vacation
** Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
+
* Martin: '''feature/bundle version issues'''
** Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
+
** Dani: Checking versions is quite time consuming, there's no tooling solution for the workspace right now (but there are reports).
** Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
+
** For branding bundles and features, rules are different than for others - Dani currently doing those, since few people have access
* Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
+
** Currently we're looking good, but automation would be better than manual nagging
** Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
+
* SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
+
* Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
+
** Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
+
* Martin: '''Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?'''
+
** Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
+
** Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
+
*** Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
+
** Debian or SuSE should be OK;
+
** Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
'''August 15, 2017''' - Alex, Dani
* Dani: '''Upstaffing the PMC'''
+
* Dani: '''subproject merge''' initiated - waiting for webmasters
** Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
+
* Dani: Provided Photon (4.8) release record and plan - please provide comments
* Dani: '''Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng''' - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
+
* Alex and Dani discussed feature/bundle version issues - next builds should be better
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''Remove PDE Build from our drops?'''
+
** Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
+
** McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
+
** Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
+
* Dani: {{bug|485257}} '''Copyright Policy Change''' - waiting on EMO/Legal input
+
* Alex: '''Updating SWT to Java7'''
+
* McQ: '''Travel for EclipseCon'''
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani
 
* Dani: '''PMC Membership'''
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''August 8, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani
'''December 15, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
+
* Eclipse [[Asterisk]] system is not working reliably (again). It took Dani 6 minutes until he could dial in (using the Swiss number - US number failed repeatedly). McQ can't dial in until 10 min later.
* No calls until Jan.5
+
* Dani: starting the '''planning record for Photon''' to announce participation in M1
* Looking for a new PMC member
+
** Toplevel items: JUnit5, Java9. Subplans on the Wiki.
 +
* Dani: '''subproject merge''' - wanted to wait for M1, but should be done this week
 +
* Alex: '''ppc64be''' - Sravan is waiting on final decision whether it will be removed in Photon
 +
** Dani: PMC decision was settled, so removed from Eclipse plan - IBM ''might'' still continue building it for internal use
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''December 8, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, John, Dani
+
'''August 1, 2017''' - no call
* Discussed {{bug|483803}} regarding the BREE for org.eclipse.core.jobs.
+
** PMC decided to move it back to JavaSE-1.7 but keep databinding on JavaSE-1.8
+
* Dani: Reminder: {{bug|475185}} Plan Update 1 - Due with Neon M4 next week
+
  
<hr/>
+
'''July 25, 2017''' - Alex, Lars, Dani
'''December 1, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani
+
* project merge got go, Dani to implement it with webmaster and then send out the announcement this or next week. E-mail will also mention that existing project leads can become co-leads on Eclipse Platform
* McQ: The new 5-Dollar Raspberry Pi and Orion (Java server works just fine on the Pi2).  
+
* Discussion if CVS should be removed from the SDK build, Alex +1, Lars +1, Dani +1
** Node server is a bit smaller but single-user and no git - nice for developing node apps though
+
* Discussion if the remaining 2.0 compatibility layer can be removed, Dani: OK to remove but other plug-ins might still have dependencies to it, must the also updated, as well as the documentation
* Dani: '''Mars.2 Endgame Plan sent'''
+
* Dani: {{bug|475185}} Plan Update 1 - Due with Neon M4 next week
+
  
 +
'''July 18, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
 +
* project merge review awaiting go from Wayne - Dani pinged again in the bug report
 +
* Dani will kick off planning for Photon a bit earlier since he will be in Bangalore the next 12 days. Platform UI already started.
 +
* M1 on August 11
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''November 25, 2015''' - McQ, Martin, Alex
+
'''July 11, 2017''' - no meeting
* Alex: '''Bumping SWT to Java8'''
+
** Lars wants to use Lambdas {{bug|481195}}; Markus keller wants static helper methods;
+
** Stephan Herrmann - University Research for Thread safety through typed annotations
+
*** Are they ready to contribute? - Probably yes, needs to be clarified; having better dev support for Thread Safety will be a huge help
+
*** Dani: Thinks that going to Java8 feels a bit early for SWT, which is at the bottom of the technology stack ... would prefer 1 year later
+
*** John: Lambda support doesn't necessarily require SWT to be Java 8 itself (it could just be more lambda friendly)
+
**** Won't help with base listeners, but probably with mouse events and related .. follow up in the bugreport
+
**** Labdas are more than syntactic sugar, it's more efficient ... still there is more value in Thread safety annotations
+
*** McQ: Assumes there would be an extensive discussion on cross-project anyways ... but there is evidence now we could get value from doing this.
+
* Dani: '''Update on Move of platform.text'''
+
** Approval from IP, will soon move to platform.ui - will keep platform.text bugzilla.
+
* John: '''FEEP'''
+
** As discussed on the [[Architecture Council]]
+
* McQ: '''Platform Support'''
+
** Many Platforms are not really active - IBM keeps alive some of them, for example RHEL4
+
** Recent mailinglist asking for Mac 32bit, have we done enough on announcements ?
+
** '''Agreement''' there's no case for catering more to people who don't read announcements and follow the project. Having a mailinglist ask once in a while is OK.
+
** Dani: Planning Update for Neon / M4 - please comment on the bug.
+
*** John: Plan document is not really exhaustive on the oldest working Platform - RHEL4 surely won't work in Neon.
+
** Alex: Consider a "Build your Own" approach for the more obscure Platforms? - Frees us from keeping older binaries in sync
+
*** Did that for ARM32 and ARM64 in master - can build by just calling maven
+
*** McQ: Who would ever validate that scripts are still valid... (Linux community: provides no binaries at all, who validates?)
+
*** Alex: Providing scripts is a lot less work than providing stable and widely compatible binaries (about 1/3 of the work)
+
  
<hr/>
+
'''July 4, 2017''' - no meeting
'''November 18, 2015''' - Alex, John, Dani
+
* Dani: EclipseCon NA 2016 submission from our team:
+
** https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2016/session/scaling-eclipse-high-dpi-dots-inch-monitors-challenges-and-solutions
+
** https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2016/session/java-9-support-eclipse
+
* John: mentioned FEEP
+
** Alex has concerns that there's not an equal opportunity for everyone
+
* Alex: new Lucene version: would like to put it in
+
** cross-projects has already been asked and we got no negative vote
+
** CQs are approved
+
** seems to be blocked by Orbit
+
** ==> Alex to find out why and report back next week in the PMC call
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 
+
'''June 27, 2017''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
'''November 11, 2015''' - McQ, John, Dani
+
* '''Equinox Merge to the Eclipse TLP'''
* Discussed new meeting time that works for Martin
+
** Keep Equinox as a separate Project, to allow independent Equinox releases without Platform (and keep Bugzilla simple)
** John to send a note that proposes Tuesday, 11:00 EST / 17:00 CET (starting in two weeks)
+
** The only argument for stronger integration would be getting more committers, but there is no strong need and we have the FastTrack process in place for that
* John: Alex mentioned at EclipseCon that there's no one in SWT team overlooking cross-platform, e.g. to craft new APIs
+
* '''Eclipse Merge of Component (Sub)Projects into Platform'''
** owning one platform is a full-time job
+
** Just 4 Projects: Platform, Equinox, JDT, PDE (plus the incubators for e4 and JDT)
** would need another person in SWT
+
** Former (Sub)Project Leads to become "Component Leads", "Technology Owners" or "Repository Owners"
** for now one of the two co-leads needs to own that task - Dani to talk to Pradeep and the co-leads
+
*** Repository Ownership is appealing as the structure is very clear (+1 Dani,Alex,McQ)
* John to Dani: how was EclipseCon
+
** Platform Lead initially Dani, more Co-Leads could step up if they want
** Dani: Great! Lots of talking to people; spent quite some time at the Hackathon; only saw 4 talks
+
*** Main work is helping component leads if they can't come to a consensus - usually less work than PMC duties
 +
* Dani: '''JSR 376 Ballot'''
 +
** Public review reconsideration ballot got approved by all except Red Hat who abstained
 +
** Much progress in the past weeks, consensus except RH abstained
 +
** Looks like the OOBE of Java9 would tolerate reflection, currently looks like on track for a September Release
 +
* '''Vacations''' many people will be off next week, especially in the U.S.
 +
** PMC call will be skipped next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 
+
'''June 20, 2017''' - MQ, Dani, Lars, Alex
'''October 28, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
+
* Attracting new contributors discussions - code cleanup and deletion of old paths needed
* Dani: Discuss new meeting time that works for Martin
+
** Alex: Big issue to get people working on codebase and considering many now irrelevant paths in the codebase
** decided that John will send out a doodle poll
+
** Dani: Cleanups should be done by the one starting them through the whole SDK
* Dani: Discuss our position regarding the removal of committer emeritus ({{bug|480670}})
+
** Lars: Not feasible as some projects are slower pace moving and the change might require more effort than one can or is willing to spend in his free time
** everyone agreed that we would like to keep this for the following reasons:
+
** Alex: Great opportunity to have new people joining by doing simple tasks and grow them into full committers
*** it is a good way reward those committers who invested lots of their time and made significant contributions to a project
+
** McQ: We have to come up with list of items we would like to get cleaned and properly follow our deprecation policy even if the migration guide for Photon get really big with things we schedule for removal in the future.
*** it makes no sense to remove something that currently works and ask projects to maintain this on their website
+
* Dani: Sub-projects merge
** we have to make sure that the emeritus list doesn't get stale
+
** Name of the new project - McQ: Everyone refers to it as Platform so natural choice it is
 +
** JDT, PDE, Platform (subprojects) to become single project  
 +
** Person responsible for some code area in the merged project - to be further dicussed
 +
* Dani: Dropping Xulrunner support - PMC to approve it in the bug
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''Juni 13, 2017''' - MQ, Dani, Lars
 +
* Dani: Release review for 4.7 was successful
 +
* Dani: Rebuild for 4.7RCa required due to new EMF version and a fix for a critical bug which resulted in duplicated menu entries
  
'''October 21, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
+
* Merge of the sub-projects
* Dani: so far no negative vote in the vote to move platform.text into platform.ui
+
** Planned for M1, desired to be coordinated with the move of Equinox to Platform
* McQ: Martin can no longer join, McQ would like to move the meeting
+
** We prefer to keep the project pages and wikis so that all the information is kept
** detailed several alternatives but no fit yet
+
** Preferable we want to have one committer list for Eclipse platform
** decided to continue the discussion in our next meeting
+
** Dani to check with foundation how the merge can be done
  
<hr/>
+
'''May 30, 2017''' - Martin, Dani, Lars
 
+
* Dani: Please approve or disapprove the release review
'''October 14, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
+
* Dani: '''Starting the Debugger doesn't work always'''
* Dani: Community asked to move platform.text into platform.ui (see [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-text-dev/msg00484.html https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-text-dev/msg00484.html])
+
** Occurs for Lars, but isn't reproducible - one of the top 3 things to fix if steps to reproduce are found
** 3 solutions:
+
** Lars: Equinox replaced the DS implementation in 4.7, the issue is probably related
*** make the move
+
** Failure is totally random: On a very slow Virtual Machine, it failed almost always (9 failures out of 10); on other machine it works most of the time; even after working fine 3 times, it may fail the 4th time; seems to occur more frequently on older machines than newer ones.
*** make a more radical move to merge everything into 'Platform'
+
** Martin: try with a reverse debugger like [http://chrononsystems.com/products/chronon-time-travelling-debugger/download Chronon] ?
*** leave things as is and let new people join platform.text
+
*** Should help by just collecting a log; and when the failure occurs, "play back" the log to understand under what condition the race condition occurs; the a reproducible case is available, and the log can also be sent around between different developers for investigation, potentiall also to Apache Felix upstream
** McQ: merging everything together is not an option. Skills are too different. Resources, Debug and SWT need to be kept separate.
+
* Dani: '''Equinox Launcher Issues'''
** Dani: fine with the move as long as it does not serve as argument to merge everything into one pot
+
** During M7, a change was made to ignore certain command-line arguments
** Alex: committers need to accept the move
+
** This caused 2 regressions - {{bug|517013}} and {{bug|516349}} MacOSX restart regression
** PMC decision: OK with the move but Dani to ask the platform.text and platform.ui committers whether they are both OK with it. Dani to become co-lead of Platform UI
+
** Java 9 will probably change the parameters again, see {{bug|516911}} :(
 
+
** It's getting too late to make any more changes to the Launcher. Re-compiling on different hardware has already caused {{bug|517013}}, it's possible that more issues (not yet known) might be caused by the rebuild. With Java 9 probably changing again, we don't win much by rebuilding to try and align with something that's not yet released.
* John from Board Meeting: Eclipse Foundation wants to change perception that Eclipse is just an IDE. Therefore they would like to change the name of our project ("Eclipse").
+
*** Option A: Put options into the eclipse.ini -- today it works for both Java 8 and Java 9
** McQ:
+
*** Option B: Add the "probably proposed" new option to the launcher, will need to rebuild the launcher again
*** this will not be for free. The name is used at many places (code, webpage, Help) and also by companies in their marketing
+
*** Option C: Revert the launcher to what it was before (and well tested) back to M6 - for running with Java 9, the options have to be added manually
*** maybe we just have to accept we made a mistake in the beginning and now live with it
+
** Users will have to read on a webpage what needs to be done for Java 9 launching; for Eclipse SDK, a single option is needed - some add-on components
*** can't think of a good name - which indicates we shouldn't change it ("Platform" is not good and "Eclipse SDK" or "Eclipse IDE" hide that it is the base for "RCP" apps)
+
*** Additional complexity: Different JVMs need different options (IBM, Oracle...)
** decided to talk about this again in the next call
+
*** Martin: {{bug|517452}} Introduce a fallback mechanism to the launcher, which reads the Java ID and loads 'eclipse-javaID.ini' with a fallback to 'eclipse.ini', but does not seem reasonable for Oxygen since too late
 +
*** Better to have a clean story: At IBM, the entire build environment changed ... reverting gets us back to a bullet-proof launcher that was tested for 7 milestones ... will work safely with Java 8, for Java 9 people will have to read the N&N or StackOverflow to find out about the right arguments - same as in Neon
 +
* '''AGREEMENT to revert the Launcher to the M6 version'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 
+
'''May 23, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ
'''October 7, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani, Martin
+
* Dani: '''Apache Batik XXE Vulnerability'''
* Dani: '''{{bug|108668}} Default Text Encoding UTF-8 ?'''
+
** Alex: Moving to Batik 1.9 would be good, but there is so much UI breakage that it's not viable for Oxygen
** On Linux and Mac, the Platform encoding is UTF-8 ; on Windows it's Cp1252 in most countries around the globe, even with Windows 10
+
* Martin: '''Bugs discovered during RC test cycle'''
** Using the Platform encoding ensures interoperability with all local tools (editors, compilers, ...)
+
** Surprised that some low-priority issues do get attention ({{bug|517108}}) while others get no response at all ({{bug|517013}}
*** '''Desire for UTF-8 only for Windows exchanging files with users on other systems'''
+
** Dani: Only interested in severe issues and regressions - send message to platform-releng-dev with severe regressions found
*** '''Changing the encoding of an existing workspace after the fact is a no go''' (risk of data corruption when loading/saving a file, some encodings are lossy)
+
** Dani: Please +1 the Gerrit for {{bug|517108}}
*** '''Using an encoding different than the OS encoding is problematic too''' (risk of data corruption when importing or D&D files from the OS)
+
** Proposal 1: UTF-8 on new empty workspaces on Windows ? --&gt; Might mean that external tools don't work as expected
+
** Proposal 2: Make users aware (Restore Oomph Welcome, which was disabled via {{bug|459486}}) ? --&gt; But many users don't understand implications, other tools also don't do this
+
** Proposal 3: Ask for encoding when team-sharing since only team-shared projects cause issues (eg EGit hook) ? --&gt; But on "push" it may be too late
+
** Martin: Encoding describes content, so should be managed with the content (as a project setting)
+
*** '''--&gt; Proposal 4: Move to a model where we encourage setting the project-level encoding preference'''
+
**** When creating a project, set the workspace default on project level automatically --&gt; ensures that projects remain sane over their lifetime
+
**** For projects lacking the project-level preference, introduce a Problem Marker (Warning) with quick fix to either UTF-8 or workspace default
+
** '''Decision:'''
+
*** '''We won't change the workspace default''' -- no use breaking existing users
+
*** '''We'll set the project encoding pro-actively'''
+
** Open questions:
+
*** Do we need tooling to convert project from encoding A to encoding B (if project preference was set incorrectly initially) ?
+
*** Shall we try setting source encoding on drag-and-drop, or shall the project dictate the policy ?
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 30, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
+
'''May 16, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars
* Dani: will send a note to PMC list asking to approve new Debug leadership (Sarika)
+
* Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
* Dani: we should finalize our API removal discussion from last week
+
** Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
** agreed that APIs marked for removal have to be annotated with @noreference, @noextend and @noimplement
+
* {{bug|509922}} Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
** agreed that components should be allowed to remove API but they have to provide good reasons
+
** Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
** agreed that we won't allow to delete APIs simply because they are deprecated
+
** Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
** agreed that the PMC will decide case by case i.e. there will be no general rule
+
* '''Test failures:''' Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
** regarding version numbering we decided to also decide this case by case
+
** Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
** Dani to update the removal document and have it reviewed by the PMC
+
** CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
 +
** UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
 +
* {{bug|516114}} Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
 +
** Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
 +
** The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
 +
** That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
 +
** Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
 +
*** The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
 +
** '''AGREEMENT:''' In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
 +
*** Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
 +
*** McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
 +
* Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
 +
* Alex: '''Project Structure'''
 +
** Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
 +
** Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
 +
** In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
 +
** Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
 +
** McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
 +
** Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move forward on this, with a ''Platform Leadership'' group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 
+
'''May 9, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ
'''September 23, 2015''' - Dani, John, Alex, Martin
+
* Dani: '''JSR376 Jigsaw''': 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
* Dani: '''JDT Core''' - Co-lead going to step up
+
** From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
* Dani: '''API Removal Discussion'''
+
** JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
** Q1: When do we actually delete API? What's the benefit compared to the pain that we cause ?
+
** For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
*** Example of methods that don't do anything any more or do wrong things -- those should be removed
+
** JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
*** Example TableTreeViewer : Continue having the API doesn't hurt, there's no significant benefit removing it
+
* Dani: '''M7/RC0''' - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
**** Alex: TableTree was completely broken on GTK for 2-3 years ... keeping such components that don't work properly lowers the quality
+
** When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
**** Dani: Is there actual proof of bugs ? Or could it be working fine on Windows RCP ? If it's deprecated, people use it at own risk; do we really need to break them, if it provides value to some people on some Platforms ?
+
**# Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
**** John: In TableTreeViewer case, EMF had some generic code (was unclear if the path was ever taken) and CDT could update easily
+
**# Section forms layout
*** '''Summary''': scheduling for removal is OK with good arguments. Give Adopters a chance to respond before removal takes place.
+
* Dani: '''httpcore 4.4.1 -&gt; 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility'''
 
+
** Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
** Q2: '''How to deal with the versions?'''
+
** People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
*** Dani: Updating the major causes major pain on everyone (adoption work), so this should be avoided
+
** Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
**** Actively developed plugins will notice source breakage when recompiling anyways -- no need to update the major for them.
+
** Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
**** For dormant plugins (not recompiled), everyone will break when updating the major although only few may be affected - is it worth notifying those small percentage that might break ?
+
** Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
**** Plugins who don't care recompiling may have to live with ClassNotFoundException
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
**** Tooling exists: API Use Scan Tools can discover incorrect API references that are not announced by the versions
+
* Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
*** '''Summary:''' Handle the Major with care -- in most cases, the cost of updating the major is not justified by the benefit.
+
* Dani: '''Release Review''', does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
 
+
** All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
** John: '''Announcement''' When thinking about removing something, we should announce that far and wide and ask for feedback
+
** McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
*** Martin: But which channel is as effective as actually removing it ? There's always who don't actually listen...
+
** Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
*** John: Still, giving a possibility to listen is important. Agree that mentioning in the release docs is not enough.
+
** Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
*** Dani: When making a release, also send message with a link to the removals page (for all removals that are planned)
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.
** John: Mechanisms for maintaining binary compatibility while only breaking source compatibility (but it's a lot of work!)
+
*** Dani: Agree, in this case better just leave it in there
+
 
+
** Alex: What to do next time, can we remove more stuff ?
+
*** Martin: Should be at the discretion of the committers. They do the work. If they see the need for removal, they should be allowed to do so (as long as they play by the rules, like early announcement). Need to define what the rules are.
+
 
+
** John: There was an interesting discussion on cross-project, asking for well-known points in time where major breakage can occur
+
*** Eg release but without all the deprecated at certain well-known point in time eg every 3-5 years
+
*** '''AI''' ''continue that discussion on the Architecture Council''
+
 
+
** '''Summary:''' Essentially do what we did, plus more communication upfront, allow people to respond before deletion happens (to avoid churn)
+
*** Committers still need to be able to delete stuff when they find it necessary.
+
*** Updating the major (or not) to be decided case by case, but in many cases "breaking everyone" is not justified against "notifying few dormant plugins".
+
 
+
* Alex: '''Bumping the minimum GTK version again''' (may cause issues on Platforms like AIX -- to be discussed when it's time)
+
 
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 16, 2015''' - John, Martin
+
'''May 2, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
* John: '''API Removal Discussion'''
+
* Lars: '''Regex Evaluator Plugin'''
** No urgency now -- changes have been reverted for now, and scheduled for 2017
+
** Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
** Updating the major of a bundle knowingly breaks everyone/most adopters
+
** Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
*** In the past, breaking changes have often been small enough to work without increasing the major
+
** McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
*** One can argue that removing TableTreeViewer is big enough to warrant updating the major
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
** Versioning packages has not been done in the past due to the huge upcoming maintenance effort when starting to do so
+
* Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
** "Release Version" is decoupled from "bundle versions" already (and may move to date-based versions eg "2016.1" with rolling updates moving forward
+
* Dani: '''JSR Jigsaw Ballot'''
** --&gt; will have more discussion next week
+
** Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 9, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John, McQ
+
'''Apr 25, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
* John: '''Planning Council Updates'''
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3a'''
** 4 planned releases (March, June, September, December -- essentially end of each quarter) with flexible contents
+
** Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
** Mid December rather than end to avoid churn, so this one is a little shorter
+
*** '''AI Alex''' tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
** Only June is "major" - allowing to drop off, or breaking changes; others are "minor"
+
*** Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem
** McQ want to reduce the number of simultaneous streams -- if "master" is more stable more often that's OK, but avoid too many "live" streams
+
 
+
* Software is getting more important - would be good to better support multicore
+
 
+
* John: '''IntelliJ change in licensing / sales model'''
+
** Many eclipse-positive comments on the announcement blog
+
** Possibility putting Money on Eclipse Development may become interesting for companies in this context
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 2, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
+
'''Apr 18, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
* Dani: '''EclipseDay India''' on Saturday, 200 attendees wanted to join, hat to cut to 150
+
* Dani: '''RH and Java9 Jigsaw'''
** Keynote by Mike Milinkovich - large Community
+
** Very good write-up linked from the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03385.html AC Mailinglist] - see also [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03389.html follow-up]
 
+
** Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
* Dani: '''Policy for and Mars.2'''
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3 Respin'''
** Do we want to stick to the "Service" model or allow feature updates ?
+
** Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
** Mars.1 winding down -- sticking to "Critical Fixes Only" for that
+
* Lars: '''[https://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/glance#group-details Glance] Migration''' to e4 and/or Platform
** Too much in the maintenance stream causes risk of defocus ... are there relevant features that are worth the extra effort ?
+
** e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
** Dani: Suggests to require PMC Approval for adding a feature in - example candidate: Improvements for HiDPI
+
* Lars
*** Also: What about version number (2nd digit version update), IP disclosures, Translations ... ?
+
** JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache
*** Dani would suggest sticking to 3rd digit update only in the marketing release number; but a Release Review would be needed
+
 
+
'''August 26, 2015''' -  
+
* Dani/Alex/Martin can't join (traveling)
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 19, 2015''' - Alex, Dani
+
'''Apr 11, 2017''' - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani
* nothing to discuss
+
* Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
 +
** There will be a special drop for Java 9 in July, but it has not yet been decided whether it will be a release where users automatically get the update, or a special p2 repository or Marketplace entry where the update can be done on demand.
 +
** Issues with Neon.3. A respin might be necessary. For details see https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/msg02741.html.
 +
* Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 12, 2015''' - John, Dani
+
'''Apr 04, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
* John asked whether we run on Windows 10
+
* Martin: {{bug|514257}} and [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev/msg14316.html cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue]
** Dani: yes, the team already tested on it a few weeks ago. Runs smoothly one bug so far. Browser widget works despite new browser (Edge)
+
** Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
** ''Martin (added after the meeting): A CDT update is needed to keep the Terminal from hanging (see {{bug|474327}}, will release with Mars.1). Got some duplicates already. Workaround is switch the Win10 Console to "Legacy Mode".''
+
** Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
* Dani would like to get plan feedback by Friday EOD
+
** Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
 +
*** Commons Logging is not a Singleton
 +
** Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
 +
* Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
 +
* Dani: '''PPC''' - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 5, 2015''' - McQ, John, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
'''Mar 28, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
* PC meeting later today (planning calendar, calling SR1/2 "Update 1/2" instead
+
* Replacement for Sergey
** adding another release before Christmas might be a next step - even if Platform contributes identical bits
+
** let's wait and see how things go
 
+
** next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
* Dani: '''[[Eclipse/Mars Retrospective]]'''
+
* Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
** Move more components to Tycho build? (Would still need Ant to test against final build/bits)
+
** all agree
** Contribution Review Dates: joined by some components but not all
+
** McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
** Error Reporter: Interesting to look at top ten but the sheer number is too big
+
* Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
*** John - based on Orion experience with similar error reporting :
+
* Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)
**** Looking at changes in reported issues is more interesting than looking at reports themselves
+
**** Reports help getting contributions (But, Dani finds that "just adding a null check" is often not what's desired for Java .. though helpful for Javascript)
+
 
+
* Dani: Foundation IP team doesn't require updating copyright notices per contribution any more (since that information is in git anyways)
+
** The Project has to agree
+
** Some contributors like to have their name in the source -- that's OK, no requirement to remove author information, but no requirement to add either
+
** Won't remove existing lists (they never claimed to be complete, since there always was the "...and others" copyright notice
+
** Dani to sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02422.html request for voting]
+
 
+
* Dani: Switching to '''Jetty 9.3.x (which requires JRE 8)'''
+
** JRE 8 from Oracle (and also from IBM) exists for all Reference Platforms
+
** Except Solaris, because we only support Solaris 32-bit and the JRE only exists as 64-bit
+
** But the Plan for Neon is to have 64-bit Solaris support
+
** New Language features in Java 8 are adopted, contributors would like to start using Java 8
+
** McQ: In the past, staying on older Java was desired to enable more widespread use ... today, this argument does not seem valid any more, in fact likely more contributions / community is enabled by moving to Java 8
+
** Dani: Only concern is some "non reference" Platforms like HP-UX might not have JREs initially; but that's OK as long as the reference platforms are good
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move to JRE 8 and allow projects to use Java 8 in their code.
+
 
+
* Dani: Looking for a contributor for SWT improvements for GTK3
+
 
+
* Martin: '''libwebkitgtk-3 on Ubuntu 14 forcing GTK 2''' not working ?
+
** Alex: Using libwebkitgtk-4 which is much more stable, but not implementing the full SWT API
+
** Most distros don't ship libwebkit for gtk-2 any more since it's not supported upstream any more and has many security issues
+
 
+
* Alex: '''Build SWT at the Foundation'''
+
** Work with the Foundation going well, expect to have RHEL machines deployed at the foundation next month
+
 
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 15, 22 and 29, 2015''' -- no meeting
+
'''Mar 21, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''Dirk Fauth''' [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02891.html Requests on eclipse-pmc]
 +
** Alex agrees with Dani
 +
** Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
 +
** Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
 +
* Dani: '''Szymon Ptasiewicz'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 8, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Alex
+
'''Mar 14, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
* John: '''Cross-Language Tooling Discussion''' on the eclipse.org-architecture-council and ide-dev mailing lists
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 readiness''' - see [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev cross-project-issues-dev]
* decided to cancel the upcoming July meetings
+
** Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
 +
*** Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
 +
** Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the [[Java 9 Readiness]] wiki can show violations
 +
*** Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
 +
*** Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
 +
** Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
 +
** All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
 +
*** This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
 +
** Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
 +
* Dani: '''JUnit 5''' considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
 +
** Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
 +
* Dani: '''2 Platform Issues in M6'''
 +
** platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
 +
** major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
 +
*** In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
 +
*** In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
 +
* Alex: '''Generic Editor and Testing'''
 +
** Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
 +
** Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
 +
** Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
 +
** In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 1, 2015''' -- no meeting
+
'''Mar 7, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars
 +
* Dani: '''4.6.3 Updates''' - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
 +
* Dani: '''4.7M7 Update''' - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
 +
* Dani: '''Java 9 / Planning Council Update''' - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
 +
** See the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/ eclipse.org-planning-council archives]
 +
* Lars: '''Platform.Resources Leadership''' after Sergey Leaving
 +
** Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
 +
** Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
 +
** Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
 +
** Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
 +
** Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 24, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
+
'''Feb 28, 2017''' - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ
* Dani: '''Java 9''' - <a href="http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/eclipse-java%E2%84%A2-9-support-beta-mars">EAR Feature Patch</a> on the Marketplace NOW
+
* Alex: '''Short update on Neon.3'''
** No JARs any more - JRE is doing things internally using "jimage" format; updated search etc to create projects and work against them
+
** 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
** If the Jimage filesystem provider isn't backported, one has to run the IDE on Java9 in order to code Java9
+
** PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
** Modules are just a list of packages (and can refer to other modules) - no real JSR describing the plan yet - seems like just a replacement of "Profiles" (and JARs)
+
* Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
 +
* Martin: '''RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing'''
 +
** Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
 +
** Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
 +
** Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
 +
** '''AI Martin''' will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like {{bug|505826}} resolved ideally
 +
*** See https://github.com/moberhuber/eclipse.platform.rcptt-tests
 +
*** And https://github.com/eclipse-testing/eclipse-platform
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 17, 2015''' - Dani, John, Martin, Alex
+
'''Feb 21, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey
* John: '''Mars''' Platform in good shape for Mars - EPP respin for Error Reporting
+
* Lars: {{Bug|512273}} Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and {{Bug|512319}} allow rebase
* Dani: '''Crashes with Java 8''' - Potentially will add to the online README
+
** '''Agreement''' to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
** Happens in the JIT, with latest Oracle Java 8 (with 8 Cores and very specific circumstances)
+
** Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
** See {{Bug|465693}} - Probably https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8078262
+
** '''AI Lars''' follow up on the bug
* Alex: '''XDG Application''' - looks like Docker but a similar idea
+
* Martin: '''UI Testing'''
** Environment description of the runtime - helps specifying the line-up of library versions that we test against and use
+
** [http://eclipse.org/rcptt RCPTT] is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
** Big part of GNOME / GTK already pushing for it, might make sense to consider alignment
+
** Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
** GNOME working towards compiling with a really old compiler, such that the physically identical bits can run against a large set of distros
+
** When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
** See https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps
+
** Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
** But if you want to try it out please read https://blogs.gnome.org/alexl/2015/06/17/testing-rawhide-apps-using-xdg-app/
+
** Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
 +
*** Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
 +
** '''AI Martin''' follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
 +
** '''AI Alex''' share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
 +
** '''AI Lars''' play with the Reddeer API
 +
* Dani: '''Update on PPC''' drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs {{bug|512224}}
 +
** Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm '''AI Alex and Dani''' ask Denis
 +
* Dani: '''Neon.3 RC3''' please keep an eye on builds
 +
* Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 
+
'''Feb 15, 2017'''
'''June 10, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Dani: 4.5RC4 looking good, no more fixes planned
+
* Dani: Working on Java 9 feature patch
+
* Alex: PC discussing a change in the release train
+
** Current common ground seems to be a request for more release points, and projects could decide whether they do features or maintenance
+
** From Platform point of view, stability is key. Some key contributors not interested doing
+
** Martin: How to also cater to contributors who want their contributions released soon ?
+
*** Martin Idea: With Tycho, building the Platform is easier so ask contributors build themselves
+
*** Or, open up a new "experimental" stream ?
+
*** Dani Idea: Market milestone builds differently, as "fully consumable" would serve the same purpose
+
* Martin: Tested eclipse-installer (Oomph), looking really really good now
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 3, 2015''' - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''Feb 8, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
* Dani: '''Mars Endgame'''
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|509412}}''' - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
* Dani: Please vote for release review
+
** Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
 +
** Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
 +
** Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
 +
** Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
 +
* Dani: '''Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform'''
 +
** Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
 +
** Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
 +
* Dani: '''Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server'''
 +
** Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
 +
* Dani: '''Scenarios for UI Testing'''
 +
** Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
 +
* Dani: '''Sign Up for Security Rep'''
 +
** See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/tools-pmc/msg03927.html Wayne's message to PMCs] requesting PMC attendance
 +
** John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
 +
** Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
 +
** '''RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up''' since already following security issues
 +
* Dani+Alex: '''libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC'''
 +
** Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
 +
** Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
 +
** Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
 +
** Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
 +
** Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
 +
** If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
 +
** '''AI Dani+McQ''' find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
 +
* Alex: '''Update on Reddeer Testing Framework'''
 +
** A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
 +
** Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
 +
** Martin has been looking at [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT] which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
 +
** (call had to be closed at this point)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 20, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
<strike>Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled</strike>
* Dani: '''Security Update''' - Platform work done, Orbit updated, reached out to Wayne and other affected projects.
+
* Dani: '''RC2 Build''' - too many bugs assigned, Lars on Vacation, Dani will fill in
+
* McQ: '''Too Many Platforms Built?''' - Who's really hurt by "too many builds" ?
+
** Will meet with Mike & Foundation tomorrow, Alex is also interested (Dani to check).
+
 
+
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 13, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Martin
 
* John, Dani - Mars Endgame looking good
 
* Alex - {{bug|465874}} Lucene 5 looking good, almost done - Ready to commit as soon as CQs are in and Mars+1 is open
 
* JDT for Java 9 - will need a wider discussion with EMO on make it easier to publish the work, e.g. in normal builds
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''Jan 24, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
'''May 6, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
* Dani: '''New Jetty Version''' - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
* Dani: '''Java 9 timing''' - slight delay
+
* Dani: '''javax.xml''' - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
* Dani: RC1 preps
+
** Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
** 2-day test pass went fine - 2 severe issues found, will be addressed
+
* Alex: '''[http://jboss-reddeer.github.io/reddeer/ Reddeer Testing Framework]'''  
** Request to watch PMC mailing list for API exceptions and defect approvals
+
** JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
* John: '''PC Discussion on Release Cycles'''
+
** Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
** Multiple releases per year PLUS maintenance streams seems like overkill
+
*** Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
** Consider an approach like Orion that just moves constantly forward
+
*** API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
** Especially for the Platform, being rock solid is most important. Still to attract new contributors we need to allow more frequent "feature updates".
+
** Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
*** A model where both "stable/maintenance" _and_ "features" are contributed to the train might be too much work/overhead.
+
*** Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
*** Consider a model like Ubuntu, ... with some release numbers being "stable/LTS base" and others being "in-between feature releases" ?
+
*** No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
*** Consider a model like LTS for maintenance fixes / aside mainstream just moving forward ?
+
** Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT], it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
 +
** Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
 +
*** Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
 +
** Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
 +
** Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --&gt; Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
 +
*** Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
 +
*** '''AI Alex''' to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' to try installing Jubula until next week
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.
  
 +
<hr>
 +
'''Jan 17, 2017''' - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ
 +
* Sergey: '''Merging platform.resources with platform.ui'''
 +
** Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
 +
*** Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
 +
** Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
 +
** Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
 +
** Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
 +
*** McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
 +
** Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
 +
** Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even {{bug|509412}} was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
 +
** Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
 +
** McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
 +
* Lars: '''Removing javax.xml'''
 +
** Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
 +
** Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
 +
** Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
 +
** McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
 +
** Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
 +
**'''AI Lars''' send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
 +
* Dani: '''Project Updates'''
 +
** Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
 +
* McQ: '''UI Testing and Jubula'''
  
'''April 15, 2015''' - Dani, John, McQ, Alex, Martin
 
* Dani: '''Java 1.7 Changes'''
 
** Some bundles have been moved to a 1.7 BREE by new committers, even after API freeze
 
** Rule has always been "we move up when there's a reason to move up". We won't move up without reason.
 
*** Dani: Moving the BREE may even cause API changes, so should only be done when incrementing the minor version (5% risk)
 
*** Alex: Such updates allow staying current and not get to "rewrite is needed" state (thus needed) but has to happen before M6 (API freeze)
 
** Alex suggest not accepting additional changes, but not reverting either (to avoid churn)
 
* Dani: '''Batik 1.6 update'''
 
 
<hr/>
 
'''April 8, 2015''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, John, McQ
 
* Dani: '''Batik''' - Platform is good, Train may need to update, perhaps updating one bundle only would suffice. John will follow up.
 
* Alex: '''SWT for GTK 3 News'''
 
** GTK port finally decoupled from X11 - it renders on Wayland now, can switch the renderer to a pure HTML one
 
** This opens up opportunities (but depends on hosts that have GTK).
 
 
 
<hr/>
 
'''April 1, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani (Regrets: John travelling)
 
* Alex: '''GTK 3.16''' seeing issues again - fixed some crashes, but scrolling is still entirely broken
 
** SWT uses a number of things that GTK declares as "implementation detail"
 
* PMC approval on piggyback CQ's (AC question forwarded by John)
 
** Dani sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02332.html our position] to John in order to update the AC
 
 
<hr/>
 
'''March 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - Bigger this year due to LocationTech (750 attendees)
 
** Mark Reinhold keynote and "after-session" on Java 9
 
** Much interest in Orion JS tooling / editor, also on desktop
 
** Public face of Eclipse Platform at the conference was much more diverse than in the past (Lars Vogel, Max Anderson, Google ...)
 
* Dani: {{bug|458730}} '''Mars Plan Update'''
 
* Dani: '''e4 project leadership''' approved by EMO
 
* Dani: Szymon Brandys resigned as Platform/Resources co-lead. Need to +1 on the mailing list
 
 
<hr/>
 
 
'''March 11, 2015 - no meeting (EclipseCon)'''
 
 
<hr/>
 
 
'''March 4, 2015''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, John
 
* Dani: '''e4 leadership''' - Dani will volunteer to co-lead
 
* Dani: '''BREEs''' - documentation about how to pick the EE
 
** Recommending the "earliest generally supported JRE that provides the capabilities you need"
 
** Would like an URL on the page pointing to the most recent plan (talking to Wayne)
 
* John: '''greatfix contest'''
 
** Dani: Working well - some very small contributions but some also very large (eg Customize Perspective fixes)
 
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - numbers looking good; join Planning Council Breakfast as delegate for Dani
 
 
<hr/>
 
'''February 25, 2015''' - Dani, Martin McQ
 
* No topics
 
 
<hr/>
 
'''February 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
 
* Alex: '''Building Native Launchers'''
 
** Current way of building is kinda unpredictable - even if getting some agreement on versions to use, results are kinda unpredictable
 
** Pushing towards Hudson RHEL builders at least at the EF to get more transparency and automation - attempt to mimic the infrastructure at IBM
 
** Looking at 3 primary architectures (at the EF) for Linux vs. secondary architectures (non-public builders potentially)
 
* Dani: Great initiative, but other (non-EF) builders must not be broken
 
** EF doesn't allow any commercial tools (but currently, e.g. Windows launchers are built with MSVS)
 
* Alex is willing to spend time to get Linux builds running; but can't help with other architectures
 
** Martin: great approach - for Windows, using a cross-compiler on Linux might be interesting (after Linux native works)
 
* Alex: This is just phase one - getting rid of the binaries in git repos might be phase 2 (since the checked-in binaries easily cause inconsistencies between Java and Native side)
 
** Martin: Checked-in binaries help consumers and contributors who just want to make a Java change
 
** Dani: Checked-in binaries are also used for comparing build results for expected vs accidental changes
 
 
* Alex: '''{{bug|459399}} - Policy for recommended minimum execution environments for bundles'''
 
** Dani: It works today
 
*** To run Eclipse, Java 8 or Java 9 can be used (minimum BREE has no impact)
 
*** To modify the source, a new JRE can be used but then the Execution Environment Descriptions need to be installed
 
** Policy as discussed in the past: Each project can increase the BREE if there is a real need (such as generifying) and no upstream clients are broken
 
*** But don't change the BREE without justification -- changing the BREE always has some effect, such as new warnings that would need to be addressed
 
*** Suggested BREE for new bundles has already been changed by Lars
 
* Alex: Even for bundles in "maintenance mode", old BREE causes issues for people who build from source (who have to change compilers etc)
 
* No conclusion so far (Alex and Dani disagree)
 
 
* Dani: '''e4 leadership'''
 
** Mature bits being moved to Eclipse - e4 remaining as an incubator to keep alive for experiments with low entry barrier
 
 
<hr/>
 
'''February 11, 2015''' - Dani, Alex
 
* no topics
 
 
<hr/>
 
 
'''February 4, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
 
* Alex: With GTK-3.15.[345] , Eclipse is entirely unusable
 
** Alex has some dirty workarounds to make it start, but still many issues like trees not painted, ...
 
** Crash on startup identified to be GTK bug. Fix to be released in 3.15.6 https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=edec64cda3d4518b4e87d5ea5d287d4570ba9933
 
* Dani: Working on Solaris 64-bit
 
 
<hr/>
 
 
'''January 28, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, John
 
* Dani: Switch Mac OS X 10.9 with 10.10 in Mars target environments
 
** No objections
 
* Alex: Looking for any Eclipse related activity @Fosdem
 
<hr/>
 
 
'''January 21, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
 
* Alex: '''Process for allowing non-committers extended bugzilla privileges (for bug triage)?'''
 
** Dani: Yes a process exists. Send bugzilla username to Dani.
 
* Alex: '''New resource for helping with SWT'''
 
* Dani: '''Platform/UI co-lead'''
 
* Dani: Solaris: Java 8 will only support 64 bits on both Intel and SPARC --&gt; IBM SWT Team considering to invest in getting patches in for 64-bit Solaris
 
 
<hr/>
 
'''January 14, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 
* Dani: Update on Platform/UI Leadership: Daniel Rolka left IBM and for now has no time to contribute. He stepped down as co-lead and nominated Lars Vogel
 
* Dani: Solaris x86 64-bit support - patches exist, but no machine available. No luck to get one from Oracle or via Eclipse Foundation. We will not support Solaris x86 64-bit unless someone makes a machine available
 
<hr/>
 
 
'''January 7, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 
* Dani: '''Platform/UI Leadership'''
 
* John: '''Git security issue''' - pick up a patch for Jgit in the packages before SR2? - Mostly an EPP
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''Jan 10, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck
 +
* Dani: '''Platform Bits on Maven Central''' - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
 +
* Dani: '''Board Committer Rep Elections''' opening
 +
* Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
 +
* Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
 +
* Lars: '''Equinox move to Platform''' - no updates - '''AI Dani''' talk to Tom again
 +
* McQ / AlexS: '''Jubula'''
 +
** In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
 +
** Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
 +
** Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
 +
** AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
 +
*** For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
 +
*** Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
 +
*** UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
 +
*** Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
 +
*** Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
 +
*** Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure ('''AI AlexS to check''')
 +
*** Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
 +
**** Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' send slides
 +
*** '''AI Dani + Lars''' propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]

Revision as of 10:56, 13 December 2017

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

December 12, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • P2 capabilities work breaking Oomph and CBI (bug 528408)
    • Alex: Hidden bug due to adopters using internals.
    • Alex: Code refactoring in p2 pushed to reduce the chance for such breakage.
    • Alex: Oomph fixed its codebase to properly check instances so it works with p2 both prior and after adding capabilities.
    • McQ: What do we do with p2?
    • Alex: Open up the project as much as we can and recruit new committers by being really welcoming to people.

-> Conclusion to not respin M4 due to this bug as it's internal API which projects should not have used.

  • Project plan update
    • Dani: No additional change came from anyone else in the PMC so update of executions environments and adding Java 9 are the only thing due.
  • Next meeting on January 9

December 05, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani, Tom

  • Vacation: Dani will be in vacation end of week, so other PMC member need to cover for him if something comes up for M4.
  • Discussion about adding EGit to the SDK? (bug 528004)
    • Dani using a shared installed to manage the EGit plug-in.
    • McQ explains that he thinks EGit is required for a full package but does not feel strong about.
    • Alex: It depends what "SDK" means: SDK to develop plug-ins or SDK to develop Eclipse Platform. We agreed on the former.
    • Dani, Alex are against adding it because it adds maintaince burden and it is unclear which of the optional packages should be installed.
    • Tom, Lars have no strong opinions
    • All agree that managing to install this is an easy task

-> Conclusing to not include EGit in the SDK

  • URL handler registration of Eclipse with the OS
    • SAP plans to contribute a way to register Eclipse to certain URLs. If the user clicks on such a URL, Eclipse would open and be able to show the file. This could be useful for installation of new items in the marketplacen client https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=527579. VSCode allows this already vscode:extension/eamodio.gitlens.
    • Redhat had similar requirements in the past
    • Platform team expects that SAP will also maintain this contribution and take responsibility of it for future releases
    • Dani (after meeting): I think extending the current file based mechanism is OK, but we won't register any (including URL) handler

-> Conclusion to work on this enhancement together with SAP, Alex plans to dedicate some time for discussing the technical solution. SAP should open a new bug and link all related bugs to this top-level bug so that the technical details can be discussed

  • Discussion of building natives
    • moved building of SWT binaries for the 3 primary platforms to the Eclipse Foundation
    • unfortunately after that the Mac went down - fixed now
    • M4 SWT natives will be built on the Eclipse Foundation hardware
    • Launcher still to be moved

November 28, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Alex: Release Change announcement
    • Agreed that we won't mention the ramp-down process.
    • Agreed to add API removal details.
    • Still work in progress.
  • Dani: API Removal process for the new release model
  • Dani: Meeting notes
    • McQ suggested that who joins last has to do it. Dani: not so good since it won't contain the notes for the discussions that happened before.
    • Will do it based on rotation and ability to actually write down the notes.
    • Dani to do it for this call.
  • Dani: Photon plan update
    • Will add Java 9 as supported VM.
    • Anything else? If so, send Dani a note or update bug 527964
  • McQ: Rename Eclipse Project to Eclipse SDK
    • We should only do it when forced by the Foundation and/or Board
    • We would need a plan before starting such an effort.

November 14, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Tom

  • Dani:
    • Presented our new release model to Planning Council. Was welcomed. No objections. But needs discussion what the Release Train will do.
    • RC1 went well, RC2 this week.

November 07, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Tom, Lars

  • For the 3 months releases, we have have a development freeze after RC1 until RC3. After RC3 master will be opened again for development. Development is possible until RC1, so this will result in a freeze period of approx. 2 weeks.
  • For releases versions of the platform we will use semantic versioning as before (4.8, 4.9, 4.10, ..)
  • Eclipse SDK will use versions not branding names unless the release train moves also the same cycle.
  • Splash will continue show the release year and month

October 31, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Martin, Alex,

  • Tom: Bugzilla Landing Page - EMO said both PMCs need to be contacted
    • Bug IDs, Equinox product and components remain in place, only the landing page will be updated
  • Dani: M3 Respin
    • Issue had been found by a team member, but got lost between different teams
    • Resolved and respun very fast, the fix is out now
  • Dani: Release Cycles and Java Alignment
    • Planning Council F2F meeting was at EclipseCon Europe; planning call will be on Thursday
    • Initially, felt like aligning with Java 18.3 was a good idea, but for now the plan is keeping the Oxygen SR rhythm and releasing Oxygen.3a aligned with Java
    • In case the Oracle release should slip, it will be most likely be named 18.4 (whatever month the release ends up in)
  • All: Platform Release Rhythm
    • At ECE, many people were surprised about changing release rhythm but the plan was generally appreciated
    • Should stick to the communicated Photon plan though and change only afterwards
    • Alex suggests promoting a Milestone build from master (properly marked up as such) aligned with the Java 18 release
      • This would promote master as something that can be used
      • After Photon, we will release 4 times from master - there won't be any maintenance builds any more
      • For the release train, there will also be release candidates.

October 24, 2017 - cancelled due to ECE


October 17, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars, Alex

  • Conf.system: Fallback to McQ's number is not a good solution (can't give out the moderator code)
    • Foundation (Denis) is aware of the problem, looking for a solution sooner than later
    • Skype group call, or zoom.us would work for Dani and McQ
  • Dani: bug 526065 Java 9 to Oxygen.1a beta update issue
    • Users who had the Java 9 beta installed and "update" to Oxygen.1a are broken
    • McQ: Updating from "beta" to "final" is not necessarily supposed to be working (Lars disagrees)
    • Not yet sure what's causing the issue .. p2 bug, or different groupID for Java9beta
    • Fix the issue if it looks like a real bug or easy to fix ... otherwise just post a message, preferredly on the Marketplace client (Dani: that part is done already)
  • Lars: Release Cycle Discussion
    • McQ still in favor of making every milestone a release
      • Alex thinks we're not there yet in terms of releng, there's still too many manual steps. Would prefer slower cadence (eg 3 months) until more automation is there (updating pom.xml, version mgmt, ...)
      • With 4 releases per year (like today) but no more maintenance branches/backports, there's potentially less work than today
      • Try starting with a release every 2nd milestone; fix automation; then strive for releasing every milestone.
      • Dani thinks the model shouldn't change in the middle of Photon; look for feedback then move to the new model next year
    • McQ: If we switch to the new model now (Oxygen.2), what do we lose?
      • Martin: Any bigger feature that would need to move into a branch? - Dani: Advanced Source Lookup
      • Dani: Also our rules about "no new features" and "PMC Approval" would need to change
      • Continue discussion in 2 weeks (skip next week due to EclipseCon)

October 10, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Lars, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Oxygen.1a respin
    • Primary reason for respin was, that people who have existing XText installed would be broken when updating the Platform
    • Opportunity to piggy-back JDT critical fixes was welcome
  • Dani: Equinox Move - Review passed without objections, working on implementation now
    • Expecting less trouble than with the Platform and JDT merges recently
    • Foundation want to keep Equinox as a brand, therefore will be a subproject (beside Platform, JDT, PDE)
    • So to increase the committer base, the fast track option will now apply; also, more alignment in terms of PMC.
    • Confirmed again that we will ask Tom to join our PMC. Approval can be found in this thread.
  • Dani: Planning Council - Rolling Releases Update
    • Should remove some of the work maintaining 2 streams - simply release from master regularly
    • In the past, API breakage (migration guide) was allowed only once per year - how to deal with this moving forward
    • Handle with semantic versioning; how to give adopters sufficient time to adjust
    • There's usually 2 camps for every topic being discussed ... though practically, Platform sets the pace
    • Release Naming - New Name every quarter? Versioning scheme? (like 2017.4 or 17.04)
    • How to simplify processes (also in terms of IP), can the Foundation scale up? Perhaps not more work, but more deadlines
      • In terms of the Release Review, only the N&N and the Migration Guide are relevant; need to satisfy small and big consumers
  • Martin: Reddeer Contribution
    • When we last discussed this, it was an important criterion that any contributor can run the tests easily
    • Alex: Looks good, essentially boils down to running "mvn clean verify" in the PDE repo (or right-click > Run as Reddeer from the IDE) - AI Alex will have a video sent to the PMC list
  • Alex: API Removal in Context of Rolling Releases
    • Which Rules to apply for allowing removal of API; Allow removal in any release?
      • McQ: The real question is, how long it takes consumers to adopt to removal
      • Dani: Is more conservative regarding deletion - the value removing something is often smaller than the ripple it causes
      • McQ: If there is code in our codebase that significantly slows us down, it should be remove even if API
    • Martin: With more releases, there's less push to upgrade ; but will consumers know they are broken? - Semantic versioning should address that, but who really uses upper version ranges ... they have caused more pain than benefit in the past
    • Dani: In the past, with our 3-year deprecation plan, Major versions have not been updated even on announced removals...
    • McQ: If we are earnest about faster velocity, we have to fully adopt semantic versioning practices. If we as producers have done what we could, our job is done - consumers who don't use upper version ranges are on their own

October 3, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin

  • Conf system woes - Dani couldn't dial in, Denis restarted the bridge leaving Martin and Alex in a Zombie bridge
    • ACTION McQ will send out conf.details using IBM's bridge
  • bug 520720 Mickael's question on Performance improvement
    • Dani: There is already an asynchronous RequestLayout API for clients, and APIs already suggest clients use the async one
      • Therefore, changing the synchronous API to work asynchronously doesn't look right.
    • Alex: We seem to be mixing two aspects here -- agree regarding RequestLayout concerns, but why should the ProgressMonitor one be a problem?
      • Dani: Agree that the ProgressMonitor approach makes sense, but a very careful review is needed - existing code already subclasses ProgressMonitor, need to make sure that expected methods are still called
      • ACTION Dani will do a careful review of the ProgressMonitor part and deny the generic RequestLayout part
  • Dani: Equinox Restructuring request for the move is in, will work with Tom and Foundation forward
  • Dani: Oxygen.1a - RC2 is in for JUnit5 and Java9
    • Respin of Oxygen.1 for bug 520176 Mac 10.13 High Sierra problem? - Not currently planned, there will be 1a instead
    • A feature patch is another option, providing patched SWT; and, there's the workarounds
  • Dani: Rolling Release - 2 topics: rolling release, and alignment with Java Update Releases
    • Some projects on the train have alignment goals with other projects outside Java; will discuss again in the Planning Council
  • Alex: bug 522733 webkit crash - A workaround is available, in contact with webkit devs for a complete fix to keep Photon usable
    • Workaround would introduce a small memory leak, but only on the first instance of webkit created

September 26, 2017 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin

  • bug 520176 MacOSX 10.13 (High Sierra) Menus Disabled
    • Only non-English Locales are affected
    • For 4.7.1a and Photon, a fix is in
    • Foundation Press Release (Newsletter) is out with information how to work around
    • Tweets are around as well -- keep spreading the message
  • Equinox Move Review - progressing
  • Alex: bug 522733 GTK Crash on Close preventing IDE Restart - can it go into 4.7.1a ?
    • Seen with Fedora 27 (Webkitgtk 2.18)
    • Foundation wanted to keep Java9 stuff separate, so pushing it there might not even help
    • The issue is serious (hard crash preventing restart of the IDE), though fortunately not many people have that particular webkitgtk version yet
    • Investigate details and possible workarounds, then consider our options -- maybe a Foundation Newsletter similar to the OSX 10.13 issue

September 19, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Async APIs request from the eclipse-pmc list (not discussed today)
  • Lars: Java 6-month release cycles
    • Alex likes the 6 month idea - less backporting
    • McQ would ideally like full releases every 3 months (except not releasing anything unfinished)
    • Dani: If Java really delivers every 6 months (will they?), Eclipse could consider rolling releases every milestone. There is a doc from the Planning Council (Mélanie Bats) in that regard.
    • Dani: Support for the public JDKs will be limited to the current release only (6mo)
    • Risk: Oracle Java may be working on big features "in the background", if there is very little time adopting new features (current license doesn't allow releasing stuff built on Beta's) it's hard for Eclipse to keep up
    • Lars: Some teams already moving to Kotlin...
    • Dani: More discusssions planned at ECE, AC etc
    • AGREEMENT to wait for now for (a) the Planning Council announcement and (b) how Java will actually implement and live up to their plans. Work towards faster release cycles (that's a good message to the consumers anyways).
    • Will need to work on details. If there's more releases, and each one needs a review, it's more work on release records and reviews. Already on a good path here, paperwork reduced to a matter of an hour.
  • Dani: Java 9 (Oxygen.1a) round the door. Plan is a full release.
  • McQ: bug 520176 MacOS 10.13 menubar issue people at Apple are also looking at it. Biggest problem is that it's not 100% reproducible. Might end up with some System Properties to be set to resolve the problem.

September 12, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Dani

  • Dani asked Alex to look into bug 517063 with high prio. We need this for M2.
  • Dani: sub-project merge
    • McQ and Lars approved my message regarding sub-project. Will send out the note today.
    • Still an issue with IP log not being merged
    • Release engineers can no longer restart the HIPPs
  • Started to discuss Advise for performance enhancement making API methods behave async
    • We need more time to verify the fix and look at the patch. Will discuss and decide next week.

September 5, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Martin

  • Alex: bug 521639 Mac Signing Issues for Oxygen.1
    • 3 requests out of 5 failing, don't know yet why - webmasters assume hardware issues, trying to move to a different machine
    • RC4:
      • Security fix in p2 (bug 518031)
      • Changes in Releng scripts to run tests on different Mac machine

August 29, 2017 - McQ, Dani, Martin

  • All: Conference System Woes - 3 tries for McQ (race conditions?), 2 tries for Martin (silence first), 10 tries for Dani
  • Dani: Subproject Merge done after some hiccups, no complaints since Fri
    • Subprojects are now "archived" with a comment that they got merged into the parent project
    • AI Dani planning to send another notification to mailing lists:
      • former PLs to become Repo Maintainers responsible for signoff and planning
      • Bugzilla remaining the same
      • Some former subproject leads already stepped up as combined project co-leads (Lars, Lakshmi, Sarika)
    • McQ: Move forward towards the new structure, but there's also need to push for responsibility among the subcomponents (finding go-to persons...)
  • Dani: StyledText improvement request on the ML (Pluggable selection model)
    • point to the e4 incubator for experiments, encourage innovation though might be quite hard and pervasive
  • RC3 looking good (except for build issues on the Foundation side, no I-Build since Aug.22 - Mac DMG is at risk for RC3)
  • Dani away next week, please watch the list for approvals towards RC4 next week

August 22, 2017 - Alex, Dani, Martin

  • All: Conference System Woes - Dani had 7 minutes trouble dialing in; Alex was kicked out
  • Dani: Plan - AI Martin review
    • Target Platform reduced - removed too much? - and Subproject plans. Rest is copy-and-paste.
  • Dani: Subproject Merge - Everything approved, waiting for implementation by EMO.
  • Dani: RC2 this week - Still many Platform/UI bugs, Dani will make a pass moving out since Lars is on vacation
  • Martin: feature/bundle version issues
    • Dani: Checking versions is quite time consuming, there's no tooling solution for the workspace right now (but there are reports).
    • For branding bundles and features, rules are different than for others - Dani currently doing those, since few people have access
    • Currently we're looking good, but automation would be better than manual nagging

August 15, 2017 - Alex, Dani

  • Dani: subproject merge initiated - waiting for webmasters
  • Dani: Provided Photon (4.8) release record and plan - please provide comments
  • Alex and Dani discussed feature/bundle version issues - next builds should be better

August 8, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani

  • Eclipse Asterisk system is not working reliably (again). It took Dani 6 minutes until he could dial in (using the Swiss number - US number failed repeatedly). McQ can't dial in until 10 min later.
  • Dani: starting the planning record for Photon to announce participation in M1
    • Toplevel items: JUnit5, Java9. Subplans on the Wiki.
  • Dani: subproject merge - wanted to wait for M1, but should be done this week
  • Alex: ppc64be - Sravan is waiting on final decision whether it will be removed in Photon
    • Dani: PMC decision was settled, so removed from Eclipse plan - IBM might still continue building it for internal use

August 1, 2017 - no call

July 25, 2017 - Alex, Lars, Dani

  • project merge got go, Dani to implement it with webmaster and then send out the announcement this or next week. E-mail will also mention that existing project leads can become co-leads on Eclipse Platform
  • Discussion if CVS should be removed from the SDK build, Alex +1, Lars +1, Dani +1
  • Discussion if the remaining 2.0 compatibility layer can be removed, Dani: OK to remove but other plug-ins might still have dependencies to it, must the also updated, as well as the documentation

July 18, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • project merge review awaiting go from Wayne - Dani pinged again in the bug report
  • Dani will kick off planning for Photon a bit earlier since he will be in Bangalore the next 12 days. Platform UI already started.
  • M1 on August 11

July 11, 2017 - no meeting

July 4, 2017 - no meeting


June 27, 2017 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Equinox Merge to the Eclipse TLP
    • Keep Equinox as a separate Project, to allow independent Equinox releases without Platform (and keep Bugzilla simple)
    • The only argument for stronger integration would be getting more committers, but there is no strong need and we have the FastTrack process in place for that
  • Eclipse Merge of Component (Sub)Projects into Platform
    • Just 4 Projects: Platform, Equinox, JDT, PDE (plus the incubators for e4 and JDT)
    • Former (Sub)Project Leads to become "Component Leads", "Technology Owners" or "Repository Owners"
      • Repository Ownership is appealing as the structure is very clear (+1 Dani,Alex,McQ)
    • Platform Lead initially Dani, more Co-Leads could step up if they want
      • Main work is helping component leads if they can't come to a consensus - usually less work than PMC duties
  • Dani: JSR 376 Ballot
    • Public review reconsideration ballot got approved by all except Red Hat who abstained
    • Much progress in the past weeks, consensus except RH abstained
    • Looks like the OOBE of Java9 would tolerate reflection, currently looks like on track for a September Release
  • Vacations many people will be off next week, especially in the U.S.
    • PMC call will be skipped next week

June 20, 2017 - MQ, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Attracting new contributors discussions - code cleanup and deletion of old paths needed
    • Alex: Big issue to get people working on codebase and considering many now irrelevant paths in the codebase
    • Dani: Cleanups should be done by the one starting them through the whole SDK
    • Lars: Not feasible as some projects are slower pace moving and the change might require more effort than one can or is willing to spend in his free time
    • Alex: Great opportunity to have new people joining by doing simple tasks and grow them into full committers
    • McQ: We have to come up with list of items we would like to get cleaned and properly follow our deprecation policy even if the migration guide for Photon get really big with things we schedule for removal in the future.
  • Dani: Sub-projects merge
    • Name of the new project - McQ: Everyone refers to it as Platform so natural choice it is
    • JDT, PDE, Platform (subprojects) to become single project
    • Person responsible for some code area in the merged project - to be further dicussed
  • Dani: Dropping Xulrunner support - PMC to approve it in the bug

Juni 13, 2017 - MQ, Dani, Lars

  • Dani: Release review for 4.7 was successful
  • Dani: Rebuild for 4.7RCa required due to new EMF version and a fix for a critical bug which resulted in duplicated menu entries
  • Merge of the sub-projects
    • Planned for M1, desired to be coordinated with the move of Equinox to Platform
    • We prefer to keep the project pages and wikis so that all the information is kept
    • Preferable we want to have one committer list for Eclipse platform
    • Dani to check with foundation how the merge can be done

May 30, 2017 - Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Dani: Please approve or disapprove the release review
  • Dani: Starting the Debugger doesn't work always
    • Occurs for Lars, but isn't reproducible - one of the top 3 things to fix if steps to reproduce are found
    • Lars: Equinox replaced the DS implementation in 4.7, the issue is probably related
    • Failure is totally random: On a very slow Virtual Machine, it failed almost always (9 failures out of 10); on other machine it works most of the time; even after working fine 3 times, it may fail the 4th time; seems to occur more frequently on older machines than newer ones.
    • Martin: try with a reverse debugger like Chronon ?
      • Should help by just collecting a log; and when the failure occurs, "play back" the log to understand under what condition the race condition occurs; the a reproducible case is available, and the log can also be sent around between different developers for investigation, potentiall also to Apache Felix upstream
  • Dani: Equinox Launcher Issues
    • During M7, a change was made to ignore certain command-line arguments
    • This caused 2 regressions - bug 517013 and bug 516349 MacOSX restart regression
    • Java 9 will probably change the parameters again, see bug 516911 :(
    • It's getting too late to make any more changes to the Launcher. Re-compiling on different hardware has already caused bug 517013, it's possible that more issues (not yet known) might be caused by the rebuild. With Java 9 probably changing again, we don't win much by rebuilding to try and align with something that's not yet released.
      • Option A: Put options into the eclipse.ini -- today it works for both Java 8 and Java 9
      • Option B: Add the "probably proposed" new option to the launcher, will need to rebuild the launcher again
      • Option C: Revert the launcher to what it was before (and well tested) back to M6 - for running with Java 9, the options have to be added manually
    • Users will have to read on a webpage what needs to be done for Java 9 launching; for Eclipse SDK, a single option is needed - some add-on components
      • Additional complexity: Different JVMs need different options (IBM, Oracle...)
      • Martin: bug 517452 Introduce a fallback mechanism to the launcher, which reads the Java ID and loads 'eclipse-javaID.ini' with a fallback to 'eclipse.ini', but does not seem reasonable for Oxygen since too late
      • Better to have a clean story: At IBM, the entire build environment changed ... reverting gets us back to a bullet-proof launcher that was tested for 7 milestones ... will work safely with Java 8, for Java 9 people will have to read the N&N or StackOverflow to find out about the right arguments - same as in Neon
  • AGREEMENT to revert the Launcher to the M6 version

May 23, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: Apache Batik XXE Vulnerability
    • Alex: Moving to Batik 1.9 would be good, but there is so much UI breakage that it's not viable for Oxygen
  • Martin: Bugs discovered during RC test cycle
    • Surprised that some low-priority issues do get attention (bug 517108) while others get no response at all (bug 517013
    • Dani: Only interested in severe issues and regressions - send message to platform-releng-dev with severe regressions found
    • Dani: Please +1 the Gerrit for bug 517108

May 16, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
    • Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
  • bug 509922 Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
    • Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
    • Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
  • Test failures: Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
    • Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
    • CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
    • UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
  • bug 516114 Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
    • Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
    • The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
    • That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
    • Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
      • The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
    • AGREEMENT: In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
      • Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
      • McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
  • Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
  • Alex: Project Structure
    • Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
    • Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
    • In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
    • Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
    • McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
    • Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
    • AGREEMENT to move forward on this, with a Platform Leadership group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.

May 9, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: JSR376 Jigsaw: 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
    • From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
    • JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
    • For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
    • JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
  • Dani: M7/RC0 - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
    • When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
      1. Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
      2. Section forms layout
  • Dani: httpcore 4.4.1 -> 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility
    • Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
    • People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
    • Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
    • Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
    • Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
    • AGREEMENT to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
  • Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
  • Dani: Release Review, does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
    • All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
    • McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
    • Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
    • Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
    • AGREEMENT to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.

May 2, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Lars: Regex Evaluator Plugin
    • Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
    • Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
    • McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
    • AGREEMENT to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
  • Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
  • Dani: JSR Jigsaw Ballot
    • Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard

Apr 25, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Neon.3a
    • Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
      • AI Alex tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
      • Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem

Apr 18, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Dani: RH and Java9 Jigsaw
    • Very good write-up linked from the AC Mailinglist - see also follow-up
    • Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
  • Dani: Neon.3 Respin
    • Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
  • Lars: Glance Migration to e4 and/or Platform
    • e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
  • Lars
    • JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache

Apr 11, 2017 - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
  • Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.

Apr 04, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Martin: bug 514257 and cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue
    • Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
    • Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
    • Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
      • Commons Logging is not a Singleton
    • Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
  • Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
  • Dani: PPC - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week

Mar 28, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Replacement for Sergey
    • let's wait and see how things go
    • next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
  • Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
    • all agree
    • McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
  • Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
  • Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)

Mar 21, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Dirk Fauth Requests on eclipse-pmc
    • Alex agrees with Dani
    • Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
    • Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
  • Dani: Szymon Ptasiewicz

Mar 14, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Java 9 readiness - see cross-project-issues-dev
    • Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
      • Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
    • Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the Java 9 Readiness wiki can show violations
      • Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
      • Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
    • Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
    • All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
      • This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
    • Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
  • Dani: JUnit 5 considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
    • Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
  • Dani: 2 Platform Issues in M6
    • platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
    • major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
      • In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
      • In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
  • Alex: Generic Editor and Testing
    • Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
    • Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
    • Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
    • In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"

Mar 7, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars

  • Dani: 4.6.3 Updates - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
  • Dani: 4.7M7 Update - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
  • Dani: Java 9 / Planning Council Update - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
  • Lars: Platform.Resources Leadership after Sergey Leaving
    • Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
    • Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
    • Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
    • Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
    • Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept

Feb 28, 2017 - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Alex: Short update on Neon.3
    • 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
    • PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
  • Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
  • Martin: RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing

Feb 21, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey

  • Lars: bug 512273 Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and bug 512319 allow rebase
    • Agreement to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
    • Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
    • AI Lars follow up on the bug
  • Martin: UI Testing
    • RCPTT is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
    • Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
    • When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
    • Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
    • Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
      • Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
    • AI Martin follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
    • AI Alex share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
    • AI Lars play with the Reddeer API
  • Dani: Update on PPC drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs bug 512224
    • Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm AI Alex and Dani ask Denis
  • Dani: Neon.3 RC3 please keep an eye on builds
  • Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week

Feb 15, 2017


Feb 8, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: bug 509412 - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
    • Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
    • Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
    • Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
    • Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
  • Dani: Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform
    • Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
    • Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
  • Dani: Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server
    • Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
  • Dani: Scenarios for UI Testing
    • Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
  • Dani: Sign Up for Security Rep
    • See Wayne's message to PMCs requesting PMC attendance
    • John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
    • Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
    • RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up since already following security issues
  • Dani+Alex: libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC
    • Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
    • Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
    • Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
    • Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
    • Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
    • If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
    • AI Dani+McQ find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
  • Alex: Update on Reddeer Testing Framework
    • A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
    • Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
    • Martin has been looking at RCPTT which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
    • (call had to be closed at this point)

Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled


Jan 24, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: New Jetty Version - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
  • Dani: javax.xml - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
    • Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
  • Alex: Reddeer Testing Framework
    • JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
    • Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
      • Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
      • API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
    • Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
      • Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
      • No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
    • Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about RCPTT, it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
    • Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
      • Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
    • Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
    • Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --> Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
      • Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
      • AI Alex to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
      • AI Martin to try installing Jubula until next week
      • AI Martin ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.

Jan 17, 2017 - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ

  • Sergey: Merging platform.resources with platform.ui
    • Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
      • Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
    • Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
    • Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
    • Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
      • McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
    • Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
    • Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even bug 509412 was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
    • Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
    • McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
  • Lars: Removing javax.xml
    • Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
    • Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
    • Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
    • McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
    • Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
    • AI Lars send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
  • Dani: Project Updates
    • Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
  • McQ: UI Testing and Jubula

Jan 10, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck

  • Dani: Platform Bits on Maven Central - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
  • Dani: Board Committer Rep Elections opening
  • Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
  • Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
  • Lars: Equinox move to Platform - no updates - AI Dani talk to Tom again
  • McQ / AlexS: Jubula
    • In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
    • Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
    • Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
    • AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
      • For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
      • Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
      • UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
      • Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
      • Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
      • Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure (AI AlexS to check)
      • Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
        • Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
      • AI AlexS send slides
      • AI Dani + Lars propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
      • AI AlexS check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started

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