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= Documents =
 
= Documents =
−
 
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
  
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= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
−
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
−
'''Nov 3, 2010:''' - Jeff, McQ, Martin, Dani, John
 
−
* {{bug|329191}} - Eclipse 4.x, EMF and version ranges
 
−
** Have been talking about line-ups with p2 for years: Platform "product" as a line-up of pieces
 
−
* John: '''Commit Rights''' and group cleanup
 
−
** How to inform affected committers?
 
−
** We cannot have commit rights just disappear without making all reasonable efforts contacting them (use Foundation DB to get E-Mail addresses)
 
−
 
−
'''Oct 27, 2010:''' - Jeff, McQ, Dani, Martin, John
 
−
* Jeff: '''Security Issue with Jetty in IDE Help''' - returning JSP source code rather than content in some cases (very hard to reproduce)
 
−
* '''Build Times and Eclipse QoS for Builds''' - build times vary between 1 and 4 hours
 
−
** Mike M: Does the team have any idea for how to re-implement the build? - Stick with PDE Build + Hudson for now
 
−
** Jeff: Tycho/Maven might be viable if Sonatype showed up to help - Buckminster is more about orchestration than build
 
−
** Martin: What's the motivation for asking a change? - Long term support strategy...
 
  
 +
'''August 22, 2017''' - Alex, Dani, Martin
 +
* All: '''Conference System Woes''' - Dani had 7 minutes trouble dialing in; Alex was kicked out
 +
* Dani: '''Plan''' - '''AI Martin''' review
 +
** Target Platform reduced - removed too much? - and Subproject plans. Rest is copy-and-paste.
 +
* Dani: '''Subproject Merge''' - Everything approved, waiting for implementation by EMO.
 +
* Dani: '''RC2 this week''' - Still many Platform/UI bugs, Dani will make a pass moving out since Lars is on vacation
 +
* Martin: '''feature/bundle version issues'''
 +
** Dani: Checking versions is quite time consuming, there's no tooling solution for the workspace right now (but there are reports).
 +
** For branding bundles and features, rules are different than for others - Dani currently doing those, since few people have access
 +
** Currently we're looking good, but automation would be better than manual nagging
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Oct 20, 2010:''' - Jeff, McQ, Dani
+
'''August 15, 2017''' - Alex, Dani
−
* Eclipse foundation needs to help us get access to JSRs for Java 7
+
* Dani: '''subproject merge''' initiated - waiting for webmasters
 +
* Dani: Provided Photon (4.8) release record and plan - please provide comments
 +
* Alex and Dani discussed feature/bundle version issues - next builds should be better
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Oct 13, 2010:''' - John, Jeff, Martin, McQ, Dani
 
−
* Martin: '''Hard to get a complete list of all applicable license texts''' - neither IP log helps here, nor mining all the about.html's (hard to find duplicates)
 
−
** Jeff: Wayne is writing a tool to validate IP logs - might be related
 
−
** Jeff: Some work in p2 to collect / characterize license data, but only for feature license (umbrella thing). p2 metadata allows having multiple licenses, but that's not currently
 
−
** Conclusion: License info is not in a machine-readable form today. If this turns out being a problem for consumers, we may want to improve the situation.
 
−
* Martin: '''Obsolete 3rd party libs in the IP Log'''
 
−
** When removing IP, add the "obsolete" keyword on ipzilla. How to deal with this while handling multiple Streams ?
 
−
** Hard to associate any IP Log entry with actual license / code. Would be interesting to be able and link any Ipzilla against actual about.html online in viewcvs/viewsvn etc
 
−
** '''AI Martin''' open an IP Discussion for this
 
−
* John: '''Remove "early adopter" from the 4.1 builds'''
 
−
** McQ is in favor, no disagreement - '''AI John/Paul''' make the change
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''August 8, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani
−
'''Oct 6, 2010:''' - Dani, John, Jeff, Martin
+
* Eclipse [[Asterisk]] system is not working reliably (again). It took Dani 6 minutes until he could dial in (using the Swiss number - US number failed repeatedly). McQ can't dial in until 10 min later.
−
* Feature ranges
+
* Dani: starting the '''planning record for Photon''' to announce participation in M1
−
** Some projects using a buckminster capability to convert feature includes to wider ranges
+
** Toplevel items: JUnit5, Java9. Subplans on the Wiki.
−
** This makes it hard to reproduce builds and installs
+
* Dani: '''subproject merge''' - wanted to wait for M1, but should be done this week
−
** No longer able to install SR0 once SR1 is available
+
* Alex: '''ppc64be''' - Sravan is waiting on final decision whether it will be removed in Photon
−
* Web pages
+
** Dani: PMC decision was settled, so removed from Eclipse plan - IBM ''might'' still continue building it for internal use
−
** Jeff working with Kim and DJ to improve appearance of download pages, introduce Nova theme
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Sep 29, 2010:''' - Dani, John, Martin, Jeff
+
'''August 1, 2017''' - no call
−
* John: UNIX groups - ongoing, now with Webmaster
+
−
* John: Parts of e4 project now moving to git - may pave the way for more git on Eclipse later on
+
−
** PDE Build Fetch factory for git currently exists as a patch on a bug, should live in egit - {{bug|289838}}
+
−
* Jeff: Download page - Cluttered and hard to navigate - {{bug|326444}} for Equinox: too many columns, too much text
+
−
** Make it easier to find "the latest"; update the look to be more consistent with main web pages
+
−
** Most people just get the SDK, or the SWT downloads
+
−
** '''AI''' File bug for discussion
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''July 25, 2017''' - Alex, Lars, Dani
−
'''Sep 22, 2010:''' - Dani, Jeff, Martin, John
+
* project merge got go, Dani to implement it with webmaster and then send out the announcement this or next week. E-mail will also mention that existing project leads can become co-leads on Eclipse Platform
−
* John: 3.7 -> 4.1 EPP upgrade - idea is to just upgrade the Platform (not a long-term, but interim idea)
+
* Discussion if CVS should be removed from the SDK build, Alex +1, Lars +1, Dani +1
−
** Goal is increasing the usage of 4.1, without further producing full EPP's
+
* Discussion if the remaining 2.0 compatibility layer can be removed, Dani: OK to remove but other plug-ins might still have dependencies to it, must the also updated, as well as the documentation
−
* Dani: How to move forward with UNIX group restructuring
+
−
** Wait for the build.e.o problems to get resolved, then John to follow up with Denis (via the discussion bug), once there is a concrete suggestion of what is desired in terms of ACL's
+
−
* John: M2a rebuild - anything we can do to reduce the chance of getting such bugs in the future?
+
−
** No-Reference analysis warnings were turned off in the past since there were too many false positives
+
−
** Dani - Bytecode are independent of warnings, there's really 2 issues:
+
−
*** (a) compiler only changed every 6 weeks, earlier compiler adoption would have found this earlier
+
−
*** (b) bytecode comparison after builds ?
+
−
*** John: using the new p2 every week turned out to be too volatile (but compiler may be more stable)
+
−
**** Goal of updating basebuilder more often would be adding "compile Eclipse" as a big testcase for the compiler
+
−
** '''AI John''' to discuss with Kim
+
  
 +
'''July 18, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
 +
* project merge review awaiting go from Wayne - Dani pinged again in the bug report
 +
* Dani will kick off planning for Photon a bit earlier since he will be in Bangalore the next 12 days. Platform UI already started.
 +
* M1 on August 11
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Sep 15, 2010:''' - Dani, Jeff, McQ, John
+
'''July 11, 2017''' - no meeting
−
* Moving up to ICU4J 4.6 which requires Java 5
+
−
** We are stuck on old version of ICU4J unless we can move to Java 5
+
−
** We previously agreed moving to Java 5 is ok - no complaints here
+
−
** Need to document the steps for someone running RCP on Foundation 1.1 - have to switch to older version of ICU4J
+
−
** This will enable us to consume future ICU4J versions that may be able to split large timezone data into a separately consumable piece.
+
−
* Unix groups
+
−
** Preference is to avoid multiple votes
+
−
** Try to use ACLs to enable multiple groups for some directories
+
−
** If this is too complex, then have two groups but not expose two votes. I.e., when a committer is approved, we need to tell webmasters to add "common" along with whatever component they are being added to.
+
−
* Release train and 3.7/4.1 split
+
−
** Planning council working out how to handle 3.7/4.1 split
+
−
** Some argued that having 4.1 EPP packages would greatly improve adoption
+
−
** Being able to "one click" upgrade from 3.7->4.1 EPP not too bad and greatly reduces dis/mirror footprint (for example a link in welcome page)
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
 
+
−
'''Sep 8, 2010:''' - John, Jeff, McQ
+
−
* Discussed reception of 4.0 release.
+
−
** We probably overdid the caution and it appears to be getting very little use
+
−
** Will encourage Eclipse project developers to use 4.1 builds to help find and iron out bugs
+
−
* Discussed [[Eclipse/PMC/Unix Groups]] again
+
−
** Need to resolve with webmasters how to handle "common" things. Entered {{bug|324772}} to iron out details with web master
+
−
* John asked for input on draft Indigo plan
+
−
* Discussed how to better handle ECF contributions
+
−
** Either ECF needs to be done earlier, or we have to live with our dates slipping
+
−
** Need to work together to see if we can improve contribution process
+
−
** We need to at least make sure they are in the loop on our build and end-game schedules
+
−
* Jeff mentioned target platform management in PDE has a few holes. Will have a follow-up call to dive into details with PDE committers.
+
  
 +
'''July 4, 2017''' - no meeting
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
 
+
'''June 27, 2017''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
−
'''Sep 1, 2010:''' - John, Jeff, Dani
+
* '''Equinox Merge to the Eclipse TLP'''
−
* Discussed [[Eclipse/PMC/Unix Groups]]
+
** Keep Equinox as a separate Project, to allow independent Equinox releases without Platform (and keep Bugzilla simple)
−
** Agreed with general direction about greatly reducing number of groups
+
** The only argument for stronger integration would be getting more committers, but there is no strong need and we have the FastTrack process in place for that
−
** Dani proposed some changes to text and search components, which have since been incorporated into the doc
+
* '''Eclipse Merge of Component (Sub)Projects into Platform'''
 +
** Just 4 Projects: Platform, Equinox, JDT, PDE (plus the incubators for e4 and JDT)
 +
** Former (Sub)Project Leads to become "Component Leads", "Technology Owners" or "Repository Owners"
 +
*** Repository Ownership is appealing as the structure is very clear (+1 Dani,Alex,McQ)
 +
** Platform Lead initially Dani, more Co-Leads could step up if they want
 +
*** Main work is helping component leads if they can't come to a consensus - usually less work than PMC duties
 +
* Dani: '''JSR 376 Ballot'''
 +
** Public review reconsideration ballot got approved by all except Red Hat who abstained
 +
** Much progress in the past weeks, consensus except RH abstained
 +
** Looks like the OOBE of Java9 would tolerate reflection, currently looks like on track for a September Release
 +
* '''Vacations''' many people will be off next week, especially in the U.S.
 +
** PMC call will be skipped next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
 
+
'''June 20, 2017''' - MQ, Dani, Lars, Alex
−
'''Aug 25, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin
+
* Attracting new contributors discussions - code cleanup and deletion of old paths needed
−
* Dani - 3.6.1 looks ok - no other topics
+
** Alex: Big issue to get people working on codebase and considering many now irrelevant paths in the codebase
 +
** Dani: Cleanups should be done by the one starting them through the whole SDK
 +
** Lars: Not feasible as some projects are slower pace moving and the change might require more effort than one can or is willing to spend in his free time
 +
** Alex: Great opportunity to have new people joining by doing simple tasks and grow them into full committers
 +
** McQ: We have to come up with list of items we would like to get cleaned and properly follow our deprecation policy even if the migration guide for Photon get really big with things we schedule for removal in the future.
 +
* Dani: Sub-projects merge
 +
** Name of the new project - McQ: Everyone refers to it as Platform so natural choice it is
 +
** JDT, PDE, Platform (subprojects) to become single project
 +
** Person responsible for some code area in the merged project - to be further dicussed
 +
* Dani: Dropping Xulrunner support - PMC to approve it in the bug
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Aug 18, 2010:''' - Dani, John, Martin
+
'''Juni 13, 2017''' - MQ, Dani, Lars
−
* John - '''Eclipse 3.x and 4.0''' and the Release Train
+
* Dani: Release review for 4.7 was successful
−
** Early feedback from 4.0 adopters is that most stuff actually works when dropping in binaries (talking binary compatibility, not source compatibility)
+
* Dani: Rebuild for 4.7RCa required due to new EMF version and a fix for a critical bug which resulted in duplicated menu entries
−
** Martin is concerned that dropping binaries built against 3.x into 4.0 will fail late at runtime only, due to use of internals
+
−
** John suggests API usage scan to understand issues early
+
−
** Martin is more interested in source compatibility (build against 4.0) - can this be made super simple?
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
* Merge of the sub-projects
−
'''Aug 11, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani
+
** Planned for M1, desired to be coordinated with the move of Equinox to Platform
−
* McQ - '''3.7 Planning Process''' - input requested from all committers about plan items
+
** We prefer to keep the project pages and wikis so that all the information is kept
−
* '''Eclipse 4.0 Feedback''' - not too much seen, neither good nor bad
+
** Preferable we want to have one committer list for Eclipse platform
 +
** Dani to check with foundation how the merge can be done
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''May 30, 2017''' - Martin, Dani, Lars
−
'''Aug 4, 2010:''' - meeting cancelled
+
* Dani: Please approve or disapprove the release review
 +
* Dani: '''Starting the Debugger doesn't work always'''
 +
** Occurs for Lars, but isn't reproducible - one of the top 3 things to fix if steps to reproduce are found
 +
** Lars: Equinox replaced the DS implementation in 4.7, the issue is probably related
 +
** Failure is totally random: On a very slow Virtual Machine, it failed almost always (9 failures out of 10); on other machine it works most of the time; even after working fine 3 times, it may fail the 4th time; seems to occur more frequently on older machines than newer ones.
 +
** Martin: try with a reverse debugger like [http://chrononsystems.com/products/chronon-time-travelling-debugger/download Chronon] ?
 +
*** Should help by just collecting a log; and when the failure occurs, "play back" the log to understand under what condition the race condition occurs; the a reproducible case is available, and the log can also be sent around between different developers for investigation, potentiall also to Apache Felix upstream
 +
* Dani: '''Equinox Launcher Issues'''
 +
** During M7, a change was made to ignore certain command-line arguments
 +
** This caused 2 regressions - {{bug|517013}} and {{bug|516349}} MacOSX restart regression
 +
** Java 9 will probably change the parameters again, see {{bug|516911}} :(
 +
** It's getting too late to make any more changes to the Launcher. Re-compiling on different hardware has already caused {{bug|517013}}, it's possible that more issues (not yet known) might be caused by the rebuild. With Java 9 probably changing again, we don't win much by rebuilding to try and align with something that's not yet released.
 +
*** Option A: Put options into the eclipse.ini -- today it works for both Java 8 and Java 9
 +
*** Option B: Add the "probably proposed" new option to the launcher, will need to rebuild the launcher again
 +
*** Option C: Revert the launcher to what it was before (and well tested) back to M6 - for running with Java 9, the options have to be added manually
 +
** Users will have to read on a webpage what needs to be done for Java 9 launching; for Eclipse SDK, a single option is needed - some add-on components
 +
*** Additional complexity: Different JVMs need different options (IBM, Oracle...)
 +
*** Martin: {{bug|517452}} Introduce a fallback mechanism to the launcher, which reads the Java ID and loads 'eclipse-javaID.ini' with a fallback to 'eclipse.ini', but does not seem reasonable for Oxygen since too late
 +
*** Better to have a clean story: At IBM, the entire build environment changed ... reverting gets us back to a bullet-proof launcher that was tested for 7 milestones ... will work safely with Java 8, for Java 9 people will have to read the N&N or StackOverflow to find out about the right arguments - same as in Neon
 +
* '''AGREEMENT to revert the Launcher to the M6 version'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 28, 2010:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani, Jeff
+
'''May 23, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ
−
* Discussed process for handling security patches
+
* Dani: '''Apache Batik XXE Vulnerability'''
−
** If patches had metadata that would allow them to be flagged as security or "critical" patches, then p2 could automatically apply them on startup
+
** Alex: Moving to Batik 1.9 would be good, but there is so much UI breakage that it's not viable for Oxygen
−
** Deluxe solution would use out of process installer to be able to repair corrupt install that can't even start
+
* Martin: '''Bugs discovered during RC test cycle'''
−
** Simple solution is to put patches in the eclipse/updates/3.6 repository and users need to apply them manually
+
** Surprised that some low-priority issues do get attention ({{bug|517108}}) while others get no response at all ({{bug|517013}}
−
* McQ gave a summary of the state of the Eclipse SDK 4.0 release (see his later [http://dev.eclipse.org/blogs/mcqjustmcq/2010/07/28/growing-the-future/ blog post]).
+
** Dani: Only interested in severe issues and regressions - send message to platform-releng-dev with severe regressions found
−
* Discussed possibility of facet work moving to e4
+
** Dani: Please +1 the Gerrit for {{bug|517108}}
−
** Need to be clear on what would be required to migrate it to the platform
+
−
** Have separate call with Konstantin to discuss
+
−
* Discussed state of builds moving to Foundation infrastructure
+
−
** Could explore migrating build to different build technology such as Buckminster or Tycho if it provides any benefit
+
−
** Concern about the build/test machines becoming a bottleneck as more projects move to it
+
−
** Still need to run performance tests on IBM hardware for now because virtualized machine is not consistent enough
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 21, 2010:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani
+
'''May 16, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars
−
* McQ - '''State of Eclipse 4.0'''
+
* Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
−
** Not where we'd like us to be, but converging fast and there seem no issues blocking shipping
+
** Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
−
** Not slowing down people any more, and get some new capabilities (view tear-off etc)
+
* {{bug|509922}} Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
−
** Should we have 3.7 and 4.1 release trains? allow projects to choose? - Discussions ongoing with PC, Foundation (enough resources to support this?)
+
** Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
−
* John - '''Eclipse 4.0 Release Review'''
+
** Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
−
** Need to go public now to have 1-week review period
+
* '''Test failures:''' Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
−
* Dani - need to start publishing the '''3.6.1 freeze plan'''
+
** Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
−
* Dani - '''separate groups for resources and runtime'''
+
** CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
−
** Too small micro-components make operation harder
+
** UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
−
** McQ 0, Martin 0, Dani +1, John +1 (but strive for more simplicity on other areas)
+
* {{bug|516114}} Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
−
* Vacations - McQ 2 weeks off starting Aug 16
+
** Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
 +
** The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
 +
** That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
 +
** Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
 +
*** The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
 +
** '''AGREEMENT:''' In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
 +
*** Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
 +
*** McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
 +
* Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
 +
* Alex: '''Project Structure'''
 +
** Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
 +
** Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
 +
** In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
 +
** Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
 +
** McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
 +
** Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move forward on this, with a ''Platform Leadership'' group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 14, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani
+
'''May 9, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ
−
* Dani - '''Problem launching Oracle/Sun jre6u21 on Windows'''
+
* Dani: '''JSR376 Jigsaw''': 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
−
** {{bug|319514}} Quickly runs out of Permgen space, because the vendor name has changed and so the -XXPermGen flag is not appended
+
** From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
−
** Put in a quick workaround for 3.6.1, patch ahead of time (some people wanted a 3.6a but we don't think that's worth the ripple)
+
** JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
−
** Most commercial products ship a VM, so likely not as bad as thought
+
** For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
−
*** Very natural that failure can happen when we don't control the VMs and the VM has custom arguments
+
** JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
−
** Only a windows issue for now (Linux parses version and looks for "hotspot")
+
* Dani: '''M7/RC0''' - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
−
** Martin: Placing a .hotspotrc file somewhere is another possible workaround
+
** When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
−
** Dani and Martin propose updating the FAQ, adding a Readme section, circulating the information about workarounds should be sufficient.
+
**# Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
 +
**# Section forms layout
 +
* Dani: '''httpcore 4.4.1 -&gt; 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility'''
 +
** Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
 +
** People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
 +
** Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
 +
** Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
 +
** Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
 +
* Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
 +
* Dani: '''Release Review''', does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
 +
** All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
 +
** McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
 +
** Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
 +
** Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 7, 2010:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, John, Dani
+
'''May 2, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
−
* McQ - '''Graduating e4 without changing the name'''
+
* Lars: '''Regex Evaluator Plugin'''
−
** Jeff - a little effort upfront on messaging may pay off really big in the longer run ... picking up 4.0 without proper messaging may end up in lot negative press
+
** Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
−
** eg messages about the state of Performance, BIDI, ... cf Eclipse 4.0 "Early Adopter Release"
+
** Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
−
* Dani - '''BREE to 1.5 for JDT-UI''', what is the process?
+
** McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
−
** '''approved''', all in favor, eat our own dogfood, 1.6 does not provide much benefit
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
−
* Dani - '''Checkin Policies for 3.6.1 Maintenance Stream'''
+
* Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
−
** We should have more control over what goes into M-builds .. what's the least intrusive way doing so?
+
* Dani: '''JSR Jigsaw Ballot'''
−
** McQ suggests M7-ish policies + endgame . Dani suggests mandatory 1-committer code review. Martin requires fix verification.
+
** Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard
−
** Bring up the topic on Arch call, since committers are affected .. the goal is keeping quality high and having change control.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 30, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, John
+
'''Apr 25, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* No negative response yet about switching to Java 6 reference platforms
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3a'''
−
** Components free to move up but not a free-for-all. Justify reasons for moving up on eclipse-pmc mailing list.
+
** Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
−
** In many cases there is little added benefit of Java 6 so Java 5 is more likely as a bundle execution environment
+
*** '''AI Alex''' tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
−
* 4.0 release and bundle/package naming
+
*** Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem
−
** Agreed that we will not migrate bundle/package namespaces at this time
+
−
** e4 API is not ready so the separation is helpful to divide it from the mature API
+
−
** It is not simply a package name issue, there are also class names containing "e4". Need to work through the process of merging the new API with the old, but this will take time
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 23, 2010:''' - Jeff, John
+
'''Apr 18, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
−
* No topics
+
* Dani: '''RH and Java9 Jigsaw'''
 +
** Very good write-up linked from the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03385.html AC Mailinglist] - see also [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03389.html follow-up]
 +
** Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
 +
* Dani: '''Neon.3 Respin'''
 +
** Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
 +
* Lars: '''[https://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/glance#group-details Glance] Migration''' to e4 and/or Platform
 +
** e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
 +
* Lars
 +
** JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 16, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Jeff
+
'''Apr 11, 2017''' - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani
−
* McQ - '''Java 4 going away''' (was EOL since October 2008, Java 5 EOL since October 2009)
+
* Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
−
** Dani: Don't bump up any BREBump up to 1.5 only if needed
+
** There will be a special drop for Java 9 in July, but it has not yet been decided whether it will be a release where users automatically get the update, or a special p2 repository or Marketplace entry where the update can be done on demand.
−
** Jeff: If moving off 1.4, why not move up to 1.6 ?
+
** Issues with Neon.3. A respin might be necessary. For details see https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/msg02741.html.
−
*** Reality is that we want the tiny Foundatation-1.1 or the big wad, and 1.5 is no better than 1.6
+
* Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.
−
*** Equinox may start using Generics and down-compile to 1.4 ... think about what's in ercp
+
−
** Start a cross-project discussion... question is whether everyone who depends on Platform has 1.6 VM Support
+
−
** Martin has no problem with 1.6, suggest asking on cross-project / some of the bigger players (e.g. Jetty, Modeling, ...)
+
−
*** McQ to ask Boris bring up with the Board
+
−
* Martin, Jeff, Dani vacation next 2 weeks (likely not on the call).
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 9, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, McQ, John
+
'''Apr 04, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* Dani - '''Approval for Docs''' - flexibility around docs is good, but after RC4 is too late.
+
* Martin: {{bug|514257}} and [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev/msg14316.html cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue]
−
* Dani - '''Re-Opening HEAD''' - basically OK, to be discussed at the Arch call.
+
** Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
−
* McQ - '''Shutting down status messages''' for rest of the month except for really noteworthy things.
+
** Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
 +
** Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
 +
*** Commons Logging is not a Singleton
 +
** Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
 +
* Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
 +
* Dani: '''PPC''' - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 2, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, McQ, John, McQ
+
'''Mar 28, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
−
* Dani - '''ECF Issues''': Why does Eclipse have a process with Approvals while ECF does not. At the moment, there is a mutual dependency.
+
* Replacement for Sergey
−
** Once we decided to consume them, we have no control over their rules.
+
** let's wait and see how things go
−
** Our only option is not consuming late changes from them (and thus burn the community and them).
+
** next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
−
** John - there are some cases where we could push back a bit more (without going to the limit of not consuming at all).
+
* Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
−
** Problems have been due to the build (and not due to quality issues in their code). But this doesn't change the fact that '''ANY''' late binding change is work and risk and should thus be pushed back if possible.
+
** all agree
−
** McQ would like to be more flexible accepting changes .. are we becoming too stiff? ie. do what we can to mitigate risk, but live with taking risk .. that's part of the Eclipse Way.
+
** McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
−
* John - '''Builds after RC4'''
+
* Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
−
** Need PMC agreement. John going to discuss cross-project criteria.
+
* Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)
−
** McQ doesn't want to tie our release to the winds of others (outside Eclipse) getting back to us or not. '''We should not be asking cross-project for approval.'''
+
−
** Each project is going to do what makes most sense to them (including us). In favor of having the conversation, but not asking for approval.
+
−
* John - '''When to start 3.7 and 3.6.1 builds''' - defer to next week.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 26, 2010:''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Jeff, John
+
'''Mar 21, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* Brief meeting. John just mentions that there's surprisingly many "Critical" bugs. Maybe just a triage problem. Will bring up in Arch call.
+
* Dani: '''Dirk Fauth''' [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02891.html Requests on eclipse-pmc]
 +
** Alex agrees with Dani
 +
** Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
 +
** Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
 +
* Dani: '''Szymon Ptasiewicz'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 19, 2010:''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Jeff, John
+
'''Mar 14, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* John - {{bug|27930}} '''Naming of Eclipse Classic'''
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 readiness''' - see [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev cross-project-issues-dev]
−
** McQ - No other package on that page is the output of a single project, would want to see Eclipse SDK removed from packages page
+
** Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
−
** Jeff - "RCP/Plugin Developer" used to be direct replacements (SDK + Mylyn + XML Editor), but now also includes RAP (217MB)
+
*** Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
−
** Dani - Some people go to downloads/ and then look for a milestone
+
** Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the [[Java 9 Readiness]] wiki can show violations
−
** "Development Builds" tab provides access to milestones of packages; "Projects" tab provides access to direct project output.
+
*** Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
−
** '''Resolution:''' 650.000 people have downloaded classic (#2 download), even scrolling down - changing this is a waste.
+
*** Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
−
* Dani - {{bug|313524}} '''Preference for new API Constant''' for the Formatter (also [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=59891#c45 bug 59891 comment 45] and onwards)
+
** Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
−
** Some people don't like the new look (method wrapping) - currently no way to have the formatter behave the same in 3.5 and 3.6
+
** All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
−
** '''Resolution:''' pmc+ since little effort avoids lot of churn. Keeping the functionality without allowing to disable is a no-go.
+
*** This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
−
* Martin - '''Feedback channel for removing API''' process (e.g. {{bug|311931}})
+
** Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
−
** '''Resolution:''' Add a suggestion to the [[Eclipse/API Central/API Removal Process]] page to start fresh for the feedback channel if there's a lot of discussion on the existing bug (by bugzilla clone)
+
* Dani: '''JUnit 5''' considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
−
* John - '''4.0 topics'''
+
** Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
−
** FYI: Ian created a draft of a [http://www.eclipse.org/helios/eclipse-sdk-4.0/ landing page]. Working on a [http://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse/Eclipse_SDK_4.0_FAQ release FAQ] page
+
* Dani: '''2 Platform Issues in M6'''
 +
** platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
 +
** major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
 +
*** In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
 +
*** In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
 +
* Alex: '''Generic Editor and Testing'''
 +
** Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
 +
** Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
 +
** Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
 +
** In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 12, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, John, Jeff, Dani
+
'''Mar 7, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars
−
* Remaining work for Release - John: Checklist (Docs, collective N&N etc... IP Logs end May)
+
* Dani: '''4.6.3 Updates''' - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
−
** [[Eclipse/Release checklist]], and [[Eclipse Doc Checklist]]. '''AI Dani''' has another one for Docs - will update for 3.6 and send offline
+
* Dani: '''4.7M7 Update''' - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
−
** [[Platform-releng-faq#Eclipse_Release_checklist]] also links to [[3.3 Release checklist]]
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 / Planning Council Update''' - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
−
* IP Logs for subprojects - '''AI Jeff''' talk to Wayne to allow IP logs for container projects, also ask Boris (committer rep) - unsure if we have a committer rep on the IP Advisory committee, but we should have
+
** See the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/ eclipse.org-planning-council archives]
−
* Eclipse SDK 4.0 Naming
+
* Lars: '''Platform.Resources Leadership''' after Sergey Leaving
−
** John - from Mailing List discussion, "Eclipse SDK 4.0 Early Adopter Release" seemed to be the favorite one
+
** Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
−
** Next year's release will be 4.1. Ian going to prepare a landing page to send the right message, working with Boris and John
+
** Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
−
* API Deletion - luceneSearchParticipant
+
** Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
−
** Deprecation should include a migration path (if it exists).
+
** Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
−
** Will document deletions in the migration guide (and probably also in the README)
+
** Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept
−
** Martin: Add a Bugzilla Keyword for API Deletions, will make it very easy to create a query for all pending API deletions
+
−
** Jeff: Whatever we do, current deletions should be examplary.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 5, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, John, Dani
+
'''Feb 28, 2017''' - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ
−
* Martin - {{bug|309059}} root cert validity? - Tom investigating, no new info
+
* Alex: '''Short update on Neon.3'''
−
* Martin - How to mark issues for [[Polish3.6]] (UNC issues, Launcher vmargs {{bug|149994}}) - who sets the Bugzilla polish kwd?
+
** 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
−
** Martin to bring up again, and add to the Polish Wiki, and add the polish keyword on bz.
+
** PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
−
** Any Eclipse Platform committer is allowed to suggest items that bug him personally on the polish list (against any component).
+
* Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
−
* John - Helios Plan update
+
* Martin: '''RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing'''
−
* John - API Removal
+
** Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
 +
** Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
 +
** Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
 +
** '''AI Martin''' will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like {{bug|505826}} resolved ideally
 +
* McQ will be out next 2 weeks
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 28, 2010:''' - Jeff, Martin, John, McQ, Dani
+
'''Feb 21, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey
−
* Martin - '''[[Eclipse/UNC_Paths]]''' - testing for 3.6 ? Bugzilla: [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwords&short_desc=unc&classification=Eclipse&classification=RT&product=Equinox&product=Platform&product=JDT&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&product=PDE All open with UNC in the summary]
+
* Lars: {{Bug|512273}} Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and {{Bug|512319}} allow rebase
−
** Especially {{bug|289322}} and {{bug|262601}} are blocking for Martin, because these make it impossible to have Eclipse installed on an UNC path (common scenario in large organizations)
+
** '''Agreement''' to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
−
** Consensus: ''No concerted effort'', there are likely other more pressing issues; but ''investigate and prioritize what we find, and fix if possible''.
+
** Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
−
** <b><i>Running on UNC is considered a Polish item</i></b>.
+
** '''AI Lars''' follow up on the bug
−
* Jeff, McQ - '''Eclipse 4.0 Naming'''
+
* Martin: '''UI Testing'''
−
** Suggestion: "Eclipse 4.0 Indigo Preview"
+
** [http://eclipse.org/rcptt RCPTT] is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
−
** McQ: Don't want to send a negative message - it ''is'' usable though add-on support may be missing
+
** Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
−
** John: This is a new release of the Platform, but not all of Eclipse Foundation technology... unsure how to phrase that into a release name
+
** When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
−
** Jeff: Based on this, putting Indigo into the name is a negative and may trigger false assumptions
+
** Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
−
** McQ: ''Eclipse SDK 4.0 Developer Release'' - sends the right message
+
** Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
−
** Jeff: '''Come up with 3 or 4 suggestions and bounce these around'''. Start a public discussion. Check with other OSS projects, e.g. Andrew Overholt
+
*** Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
−
* McQ - '''1.5 BREE for Resources to support Unicode Characters'''
+
** '''AI Martin''' follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
−
** Suggest everything on top of the base RCP move up to 1.5
+
** '''AI Alex''' share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
−
** Jeff: "Move when you need to and not before" - when do we "need to"
+
** '''AI Lars''' play with the Reddeer API
−
* John - '''[[Eclipse/API Central/API Removal Process]]
+
* Dani: '''Update on PPC''' drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs {{bug|512224}}
−
** Just a compilation of things discussed before. '''Discuss on the Mailing List'''
+
** Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm '''AI Alex and Dani''' ask Denis
−
* McQ - '''Pascal as the OBR spec lead'''
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3 RC3''' please keep an eye on builds
−
** From point of view of the Eclipse Project, can't imagine what value we'd get from participating in OBR spec. IBM might care.
+
* Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 21, 2010:''' - Jeff, Martin, John, Dani, McQ
+
'''Feb 15, 2017'''
−
* John - extended '''2 day test pass''' for M7 on Mon and Tue
+
−
* Jeff - '''Eclipse 4.0 naming'''
+
−
** McQ hopes that Eclipse 4.0 will be good enough for public consumption - whatever we call it, it needs to be what we call it
+
−
** Jeff - the message should be that it's (a) new, (b) cool, (c) not quite done yet
+
−
** McQ - 4.0 won't be as performant as 3.x. Users will see the new cool presentation, but other than that it's like 3.6
+
−
** Biggest problem will be people who don't follow the Community and just get 4.0 because they heard about it
+
−
** Jeff - Comes down to setting expectations. Naming is one aspect of this, there's other aspects.
+
−
** John - Ian organized an e4-evangelist call.
+
−
** McQ - Most people will just consume the release train (Helios) anyways, and will notice that 4.0 is "different".
+
−
* Martin - {{bug|306822}} '''IncrementalBuilder.getRule()''' API addition: Ask James whether CDT Helios can pick up the change
+
−
* Martin - '''James for committer''' - move to public policy of only considering committed contributions
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 14, 2010:''' - John, Dani, Martin, Jeff
+
'''Feb 8, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
−
* Martin - '''Startup Performance tests''': Cold start after reboot is 20% slower in 3.6m6 compared to 3.5.2 (while warm start is about the same)
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|509412}}''' - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
−
** Manual test: Reboot a minimal WinXP system, then start into a fresh workspace with 1 JDT project (20 files) 1 open file in the editor.
+
** Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
−
** 28 sec in 3.5.2 but 36 sec in 3.6m6. Will file a bug tomorrow.
+
** Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
−
** John: There are 2 startup performance tests in the suite, but they are unreliable. In 3.6, changed the way tests are installed (director rather than dropins), thus baseline is not helpful.
+
** Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
−
** Jeff: Try have a look at {{Bug|308157}} Jarfile cache now limited to 100. Reason might just be cycling through more Jar's.
+
** Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
−
* John, Dani - '''Polish List'''
+
* Dani: '''Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform'''
−
* John - '''e4 plan update'''. Waiting on McQ, wants an accurate list on what's graduating.
+
** Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
−
** Jeff - once something is in 4.0 you cannot remove in 4.x so better think twice before graduating.
+
** Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
−
** John - Eclipse SDK 4.0 has a minimal API exposed, most new stuff is under the covers so this is not so much of an issue.
+
* Dani: '''Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server'''
−
** Jeff - More important to have Eclipse SDK 4.0 rock solid than have it feature complete. Do few things well rather than many things poorly.
+
** Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
−
** John - '''Self-hosting a day on Eclipse 4.0 without blocking issues!''' (But much to be polished, bugs, errors in the log etc).
+
* Dani: '''Scenarios for UI Testing'''
−
* Jeff - '''Runtime SDK's vs "targets"''': The label SDK is ambiguous. Want to install tooling + target platform together, but cannot do that today.
+
** Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
−
** Today, we use "SDK" for (a) tools+source+docs, or (b) runtime+source+docs. None of both is really an SDK.
+
* Dani: '''Sign Up for Security Rep'''
−
** Better call the target stuff just "targets".
+
** See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/tools-pmc/msg03927.html Wayne's message to PMCs] requesting PMC attendance
−
** Developer docs as part of the tooling is wrong ... should be associated with targets instead.
+
** John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
−
** John: p2 does have the ability to install into multiple profiles (plan = multiple profiles)... might be (mis)used for this, is it a hack?
+
** Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
−
** Jeff: Much target provisioning was deferred off 3.6
+
** '''RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up''' since already following security issues
 +
* Dani+Alex: '''libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC'''
 +
** Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
 +
** Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
 +
** Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
 +
** Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
 +
** Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
 +
** If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
 +
** '''AI Dani+McQ''' find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
 +
* Alex: '''Update on Reddeer Testing Framework'''
 +
** A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
 +
** Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
 +
** Martin has been looking at [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT] which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
 +
** (call had to be closed at this point)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 7, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff, John
+
<strike>Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled</strike>
−
* Builds - short call
+
−
 
+
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Mar 31, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
 
−
* Martin - '''EclipseCon Report'''
 
−
** General industry trend pointing up (as perceived on the exhibition floor); e4 rover great success! other strong topics included build (b3, buckminster, maven / tycho / nexus, athena...)
 
−
** e4 message in general very well positioned and received; git / egit was another hot topic
 
−
** Modeling and RT projects in an up trend, other projects seem to go slightly down in terms of Community interest as well as commercial involvement
 
−
** API Tutorial very well received, Martin going to work on a "Wiki" version of checklists and guidance, will notify AC when done
 
−
* John - Eclipse 4.0: Timing for graduating e4 incubation material into the Eclipse proper
 
−
** We cannot ship an Eclipse SDK out of the e4 project
 
−
** Want a clear message what Eclipse 4.0 is... probably "includes incubating components" like some EPP packages
 
−
** '''AI John''' talk to Mike and Ian
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''Jan 24, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
−
'''Mar 17, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
+
* Dani: '''New Jetty Version''' - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
−
* McQ: '''git''' vs CVS: Should there be contributions by Platform on Egit?
+
* Dani: '''javax.xml''' - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
−
** Martin: Don't know how well egit proceeded recently, Boris might know more... important point is that the major workflows are perfect. Looks like the major workflows have been identified already.
+
** Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
−
* Martin: '''WebkitGTK / MiniBrowser''': In addition to the recent WebkitGTK discussion, perhaps work on a "Minibrowser" API that can live with published frozen Mozilla API only? Many apps may not need the full feature-richness of today's Browser.
+
* Alex: '''[http://jboss-reddeer.github.io/reddeer/ Reddeer Testing Framework]'''  
−
** McQ unsure whether this is worthwile, since all industry trends go towards more web integration. '''AI Martin''' follow up with Grant
+
** JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
−
* Dani: '''Performance and Polish''' passes
+
** Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
−
** All teams need to fix the issues that Frederic finds. M7 is the performance and polish pass. Prioritize items.
+
*** Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
−
* Dani: '''Freeze Plan'''
+
*** API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
−
** Suggest a 2-day test pass (mon/tue) before the RC's, ie move 1 day from RC2 into M7
+
** Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
 +
*** Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
 +
*** No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
 +
** Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT], it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
 +
** Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
 +
*** Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
 +
** Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
 +
** Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --&gt; Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
 +
*** Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
 +
*** '''AI Alex''' to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' to try installing Jubula until next week
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.
  
−
<hr/>
+
<hr>
−
'''Mar 10, 2010:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, John
+
'''Jan 17, 2017''' - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ
−
* John: '''Provisional API guidelines''' (removing the requirement to have "internal" in the package name) - important for e4 which will have a lot of provisional API.
+
* Sergey: '''Merging platform.resources with platform.ui'''
−
** See also {{bug|261874}} and Wiki [[Provisional API Guidelines Update Proposal]]
+
** Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
−
** "Old School" wanted to make provisional API deliberately painful. Migrating "provisional" to real without renaming will make breakage more subtle
+
*** Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
−
** The game has changed: Adding x-internal, friends and API Tooling works much better than before, making it clear where API is provisional
+
** Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
−
** Martin: Much in favor of this, do we have any markup beyond x-internal for (a) making provisional API more explicitly visible or (b) work on a smaller granularity such as just a class?
+
** Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
−
*** McQ: granularity smaller than package makes it too easy to pollute API
+
** Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
−
*** Jeff: would like x-api-status:=provisional markup instead of x-internal:=true ... better do it right than half-baken. Could probably come to a fairly fast consensus on MANIFEST markup
+
*** McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
−
** Resolution Lets agree now that x-internal is sufficient for provisional API, and discuss further approvements in parallel. '''AI John''' to search existing bugs about provisional API markup and initiate a discussion on the eclipse-pmc mailing list.
+
** Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
−
* Jeff: '''Target Provisioning and PDE:''' Target components in Galileo (which cannot be installed into the host) - came up with sort of a hack which still confuses users
+
** Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even {{bug|509412}} was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
−
** Want just a little bit help in PDE to make target provisioning just a little bit better .. a number of PDE bugs related to this, many been deferred .. there will be new bugs coming to capture what can be done in the short term
+
** Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
−
** Resolution: will mark up those new bugs where they request PMC involvement
+
** McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
−
* McQ: '''Build Quality:''' There is traditionally a drop in quality around this time of year (API Freeze and Eclipsecon), plus infrastructure problems. It's not really bad but we need to be careful now.
+
* Lars: '''Removing javax.xml'''
−
** John: Resist the urge to put in extra fixes. We are past the test pass. Quality over function, especially now.
+
** Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
−
 
+
** Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
−
<hr/>
+
** Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
−
'''Mar 3, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
+
** McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
−
* Martin: Remove org.eclipse.update.configurator and related bundles from SDK? As per {{bug|304505}} it makes Eclipse slow even when off.
+
** Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
−
** Dani: Might be more than a packaging issue, somebody would have to invest
+
**'''AI Lars''' send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
−
** McQ: Should fix the Performance issue at any rate, regardless of other issues.
+
* Dani: '''Project Updates'''
−
* John sick, Dani vacation next week.
+
** Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
−
 
+
* McQ: '''UI Testing and Jubula'''
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''Feb 24, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
+
−
* Dani: Remove Java 7 support as a plan item due to (a) legal reasons and (b) Java 7 not being finished when Eclipse 3.6 ships
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''Feb 17, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, John
+
−
* Martin: {{bug|196337}} Pushing CDT Spawner into the Platform?
+
−
** John, Dani: Platform could only accept it when there is use for it in the SDK. Otherwise it would just bloat the Platform
+
−
** Recommended best practice: Keep Spawner living in CDT, but put it into a separate bundle such that it can be used by others out of Helios or other p2 Repos
+
−
** The [[Nexus Project]], which was once meant to collect such micro functionality to be shared between projects was never successful. Similar requests (e.g. faceted projects) are consumed as individual bundles through p2 today, no matter in which project they have their home where they are developed.
+
−
* Martin: {{bug|301563}} Fast project import from snapshot data - UI or not?
+
−
** John: Want some UI in the Platform in order to test it more easily, e.g. an export wizard
+
−
* John: Webkit
+
−
** Foundation is considering allowing LGPL for exempt prereqs, but not for works-with .. missing a policy for dealing with LGPL works-with
+
−
** John: Our original reason for marking works-with is that the SWT browser can use either Mozilla or WebKit. However our long term direction is WebKit-only due to brittleness of the Mozilla API which keeps breaking us. There is an increasing number of distros bundling these WebKit libraries so there is a reasonable chance going forward that the library will already be present on the user's machine.
+
−
** Martin: Exempt works-with (optional) prereq is perfectly fine for Webkit, since there is a chance it's already there on a Platform (similar to Mozilla)
+
−
** Classifying it as such makes most sense for Product builders, who look at the prereqs to understand what they need to bundle with their Eclipse based product.
+
−
** PMC agreed to reclassify these libraries as exempt pre-req.
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''Feb 10, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ
+
−
* We agreed to list WebKitGTK and libsoup 2.4 as works-with prerequisites
+
−
* We need to find consensus on {{bug|243582}} (embedding source info in binaries)
+
−
* Discussed moving Ubuntu version on the plan from 9.04 to 10.04. It is too early to make this decision because release candidates of 10.04 are not yet available, but we will continue to monitor it and make the decision to move up (or not) later in the 3.6 cycle
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''Feb 03, 2010:''' -  Dani, Martin
+
−
* Dani: {{Bug|301563}} -  Fast project import from snapshot data
+
−
** Has the feature been verified to really return the expected performance gain? - Martin: Yes, Cisco reports 10 minute -> 5 seconds improvement by using the feature on project import on their view (65000 files)
+
−
** Is the feature valuable without Index contributions from JDT / CDT? - Martin: Yes, even "plain" projects benefit when there are linked resources pointing to web folders through RSE/EFS since they can be browsed immediately and refresh can be reduced to what's really needed. But most benefit is gained when there is also a shared index to be imported for immediate use.
+
−
** Dani proposed checkin into a branch for easier merge / review - Martin: Will start working with patches
+
−
** AI Martin: Contact Sharon regarding IP review (reserve a slot)
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''Jan 27, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
−
* Dani: Markus Keller taking over JDT UI
+
−
* John: M6 Splashscreen for Eclipsecon: {{bug|297355}}
+
−
* McQ: Removing Builds - SWT needs Linux-Motif, so only WPF about to be removed
+
−
** In discussions with Microsoft, it turned out that WPF is not required to get full Windows 7 experience under Win32
+
−
** XAML for styling was meant to be a cool idea but never got flying
+
−
** Socialize people with this -- find whether people are inerested in contributing on this, if yes then we should support them
+
−
* Still working the IBM approval process for travelling to Eclipsecon
+
−
* Avoid merging major feature work after a milestone's Tuesday test pass
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''Jan 20, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
−
* McQ: Contacted Steve N, still interested but unlikely to get more energy for investing into Eclipse
+
−
* John: 3.5.2 test pass tomorrow, but yesterday's I-build been a mess
+
−
* McQ: Message about supporting Open JDK in a blog ... status should be "nice that it works but it's not a reference platform"
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
'''Jan 13, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
−
* McQ: U Manitoba students to help with technical communication (documentation, website, ...) for e4
+
−
* Dani: New way of contributing Capabilities for Helios... are we OK? - John: yes, Platform Capabilities are in the SDK feature
+
−
** FYI: Incubating projects are
+
−
* Martin: Documenting the Platforms we routinely test on
+
−
** Unittest / Perftest machines are know. When John updated the Reference Platform doc, he made sure that he knows at least one committer on each platform
+
−
** A poll to know what Platform(s) are actively used (by committers) on milestone granularity would be very helpful - John going to set that up
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 6, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Jeff
+
'''Jan 10, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck
−
* Agreed on 3.5.2 [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/freeze_plan_3_5_2.php freeze plan]
+
* Dani: '''Platform Bits on Maven Central''' - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
−
** Note RC2 is a week earlier to avoid colliding with Helios M5 week
+
* Dani: '''Board Committer Rep Elections''' opening
−
* Discussed Helios plan updates 2 {{bug|298200}}
+
* Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
−
** Update Java 7 plan item to indicate only working on publicly available bits. Some progress made on getting access to specs but going slowly.
+
* Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
−
** Update reference JRE's to latest version of each JRE
+
* Lars: '''Equinox move to Platform''' - no updates - '''AI Dani''' talk to Tom again
−
* Jeff will be away for next six weeks (vacation)
+
* McQ / AlexS: '''Jubula'''
−
* McQ to contact Steve to see if he still wishes to remain on PMC
+
** In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
 +
** Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
 +
** Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
 +
** AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
 +
*** For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
 +
*** Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
 +
*** UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
 +
*** Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
 +
*** Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
 +
*** Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure ('''AI AlexS to check''')
 +
*** Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
 +
**** Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' send slides
 +
*** '''AI Dani + Lars''' propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Revision as of 11:16, 22 August 2017

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

August 22, 2017 - Alex, Dani, Martin

  • All: Conference System Woes - Dani had 7 minutes trouble dialing in; Alex was kicked out
  • Dani: Plan - AI Martin review
    • Target Platform reduced - removed too much? - and Subproject plans. Rest is copy-and-paste.
  • Dani: Subproject Merge - Everything approved, waiting for implementation by EMO.
  • Dani: RC2 this week - Still many Platform/UI bugs, Dani will make a pass moving out since Lars is on vacation
  • Martin: feature/bundle version issues
    • Dani: Checking versions is quite time consuming, there's no tooling solution for the workspace right now (but there are reports).
    • For branding bundles and features, rules are different than for others - Dani currently doing those, since few people have access
    • Currently we're looking good, but automation would be better than manual nagging

August 15, 2017 - Alex, Dani

  • Dani: subproject merge initiated - waiting for webmasters
  • Dani: Provided Photon (4.8) release record and plan - please provide comments
  • Alex and Dani discussed feature/bundle version issues - next builds should be better

August 8, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani

  • Eclipse Asterisk system is not working reliably (again). It took Dani 6 minutes until he could dial in (using the Swiss number - US number failed repeatedly). McQ can't dial in until 10 min later.
  • Dani: starting the planning record for Photon to announce participation in M1
    • Toplevel items: JUnit5, Java9. Subplans on the Wiki.
  • Dani: subproject merge - wanted to wait for M1, but should be done this week
  • Alex: ppc64be - Sravan is waiting on final decision whether it will be removed in Photon
    • Dani: PMC decision was settled, so removed from Eclipse plan - IBM might still continue building it for internal use

August 1, 2017 - no call

July 25, 2017 - Alex, Lars, Dani

  • project merge got go, Dani to implement it with webmaster and then send out the announcement this or next week. E-mail will also mention that existing project leads can become co-leads on Eclipse Platform
  • Discussion if CVS should be removed from the SDK build, Alex +1, Lars +1, Dani +1
  • Discussion if the remaining 2.0 compatibility layer can be removed, Dani: OK to remove but other plug-ins might still have dependencies to it, must the also updated, as well as the documentation

July 18, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • project merge review awaiting go from Wayne - Dani pinged again in the bug report
  • Dani will kick off planning for Photon a bit earlier since he will be in Bangalore the next 12 days. Platform UI already started.
  • M1 on August 11

July 11, 2017 - no meeting

July 4, 2017 - no meeting

June 27, 2017 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Equinox Merge to the Eclipse TLP
    • Keep Equinox as a separate Project, to allow independent Equinox releases without Platform (and keep Bugzilla simple)
    • The only argument for stronger integration would be getting more committers, but there is no strong need and we have the FastTrack process in place for that
  • Eclipse Merge of Component (Sub)Projects into Platform
    • Just 4 Projects: Platform, Equinox, JDT, PDE (plus the incubators for e4 and JDT)
    • Former (Sub)Project Leads to become "Component Leads", "Technology Owners" or "Repository Owners"
      • Repository Ownership is appealing as the structure is very clear (+1 Dani,Alex,McQ)
    • Platform Lead initially Dani, more Co-Leads could step up if they want
      • Main work is helping component leads if they can't come to a consensus - usually less work than PMC duties
  • Dani: JSR 376 Ballot
    • Public review reconsideration ballot got approved by all except Red Hat who abstained
    • Much progress in the past weeks, consensus except RH abstained
    • Looks like the OOBE of Java9 would tolerate reflection, currently looks like on track for a September Release
  • Vacations many people will be off next week, especially in the U.S.
    • PMC call will be skipped next week

June 20, 2017 - MQ, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Attracting new contributors discussions - code cleanup and deletion of old paths needed
    • Alex: Big issue to get people working on codebase and considering many now irrelevant paths in the codebase
    • Dani: Cleanups should be done by the one starting them through the whole SDK
    • Lars: Not feasible as some projects are slower pace moving and the change might require more effort than one can or is willing to spend in his free time
    • Alex: Great opportunity to have new people joining by doing simple tasks and grow them into full committers
    • McQ: We have to come up with list of items we would like to get cleaned and properly follow our deprecation policy even if the migration guide for Photon get really big with things we schedule for removal in the future.
  • Dani: Sub-projects merge
    • Name of the new project - McQ: Everyone refers to it as Platform so natural choice it is
    • JDT, PDE, Platform (subprojects) to become single project
    • Person responsible for some code area in the merged project - to be further dicussed
  • Dani: Dropping Xulrunner support - PMC to approve it in the bug

Juni 13, 2017 - MQ, Dani, Lars

  • Dani: Release review for 4.7 was successful
  • Dani: Rebuild for 4.7RCa required due to new EMF version and a fix for a critical bug which resulted in duplicated menu entries
  • Merge of the sub-projects
    • Planned for M1, desired to be coordinated with the move of Equinox to Platform
    • We prefer to keep the project pages and wikis so that all the information is kept
    • Preferable we want to have one committer list for Eclipse platform
    • Dani to check with foundation how the merge can be done

May 30, 2017 - Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Dani: Please approve or disapprove the release review
  • Dani: Starting the Debugger doesn't work always
    • Occurs for Lars, but isn't reproducible - one of the top 3 things to fix if steps to reproduce are found
    • Lars: Equinox replaced the DS implementation in 4.7, the issue is probably related
    • Failure is totally random: On a very slow Virtual Machine, it failed almost always (9 failures out of 10); on other machine it works most of the time; even after working fine 3 times, it may fail the 4th time; seems to occur more frequently on older machines than newer ones.
    • Martin: try with a reverse debugger like Chronon ?
      • Should help by just collecting a log; and when the failure occurs, "play back" the log to understand under what condition the race condition occurs; the a reproducible case is available, and the log can also be sent around between different developers for investigation, potentiall also to Apache Felix upstream
  • Dani: Equinox Launcher Issues
    • During M7, a change was made to ignore certain command-line arguments
    • This caused 2 regressions - bug 517013 and bug 516349 MacOSX restart regression
    • Java 9 will probably change the parameters again, see bug 516911 :(
    • It's getting too late to make any more changes to the Launcher. Re-compiling on different hardware has already caused bug 517013, it's possible that more issues (not yet known) might be caused by the rebuild. With Java 9 probably changing again, we don't win much by rebuilding to try and align with something that's not yet released.
      • Option A: Put options into the eclipse.ini -- today it works for both Java 8 and Java 9
      • Option B: Add the "probably proposed" new option to the launcher, will need to rebuild the launcher again
      • Option C: Revert the launcher to what it was before (and well tested) back to M6 - for running with Java 9, the options have to be added manually
    • Users will have to read on a webpage what needs to be done for Java 9 launching; for Eclipse SDK, a single option is needed - some add-on components
      • Additional complexity: Different JVMs need different options (IBM, Oracle...)
      • Martin: bug 517452 Introduce a fallback mechanism to the launcher, which reads the Java ID and loads 'eclipse-javaID.ini' with a fallback to 'eclipse.ini', but does not seem reasonable for Oxygen since too late
      • Better to have a clean story: At IBM, the entire build environment changed ... reverting gets us back to a bullet-proof launcher that was tested for 7 milestones ... will work safely with Java 8, for Java 9 people will have to read the N&N or StackOverflow to find out about the right arguments - same as in Neon
  • AGREEMENT to revert the Launcher to the M6 version

May 23, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: Apache Batik XXE Vulnerability
    • Alex: Moving to Batik 1.9 would be good, but there is so much UI breakage that it's not viable for Oxygen
  • Martin: Bugs discovered during RC test cycle
    • Surprised that some low-priority issues do get attention (bug 517108) while others get no response at all (bug 517013
    • Dani: Only interested in severe issues and regressions - send message to platform-releng-dev with severe regressions found
    • Dani: Please +1 the Gerrit for bug 517108

May 16, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
    • Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
  • bug 509922 Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
    • Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
    • Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
  • Test failures: Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
    • Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
    • CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
    • UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
  • bug 516114 Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
    • Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
    • The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
    • That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
    • Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
      • The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
    • AGREEMENT: In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
      • Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
      • McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
  • Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
  • Alex: Project Structure
    • Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
    • Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
    • In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
    • Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
    • McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
    • Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
    • AGREEMENT to move forward on this, with a Platform Leadership group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.

May 9, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: JSR376 Jigsaw: 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
    • From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
    • JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
    • For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
    • JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
  • Dani: M7/RC0 - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
    • When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
      1. Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
      2. Section forms layout
  • Dani: httpcore 4.4.1 -> 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility
    • Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
    • People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
    • Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
    • Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
    • Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
    • AGREEMENT to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
  • Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
  • Dani: Release Review, does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
    • All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
    • McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
    • Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
    • Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
    • AGREEMENT to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.

May 2, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Lars: Regex Evaluator Plugin
    • Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
    • Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
    • McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
    • AGREEMENT to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
  • Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
  • Dani: JSR Jigsaw Ballot
    • Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard

Apr 25, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Neon.3a
    • Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
      • AI Alex tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
      • Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem

Apr 18, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Dani: RH and Java9 Jigsaw
    • Very good write-up linked from the AC Mailinglist - see also follow-up
    • Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
  • Dani: Neon.3 Respin
    • Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
  • Lars: Glance Migration to e4 and/or Platform
    • e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
  • Lars
    • JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache

Apr 11, 2017 - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
  • Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.

Apr 04, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Martin: bug 514257 and cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue
    • Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
    • Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
    • Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
      • Commons Logging is not a Singleton
    • Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
  • Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
  • Dani: PPC - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week

Mar 28, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Replacement for Sergey
    • let's wait and see how things go
    • next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
  • Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
    • all agree
    • McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
  • Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
  • Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)

Mar 21, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Dirk Fauth Requests on eclipse-pmc
    • Alex agrees with Dani
    • Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
    • Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
  • Dani: Szymon Ptasiewicz

Mar 14, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Java 9 readiness - see cross-project-issues-dev
    • Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
      • Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
    • Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the Java 9 Readiness wiki can show violations
      • Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
      • Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
    • Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
    • All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
      • This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
    • Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
  • Dani: JUnit 5 considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
    • Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
  • Dani: 2 Platform Issues in M6
    • platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
    • major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
      • In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
      • In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
  • Alex: Generic Editor and Testing
    • Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
    • Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
    • Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
    • In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"

Mar 7, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars

  • Dani: 4.6.3 Updates - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
  • Dani: 4.7M7 Update - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
  • Dani: Java 9 / Planning Council Update - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
  • Lars: Platform.Resources Leadership after Sergey Leaving
    • Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
    • Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
    • Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
    • Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
    • Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept

Feb 28, 2017 - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Alex: Short update on Neon.3
    • 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
    • PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
  • Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
  • Martin: RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing
    • Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
    • Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
    • Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
    • AI Martin will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like bug 505826 resolved ideally
  • McQ will be out next 2 weeks

Feb 21, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey

  • Lars: bug 512273 Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and bug 512319 allow rebase
    • Agreement to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
    • Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
    • AI Lars follow up on the bug
  • Martin: UI Testing
    • RCPTT is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
    • Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
    • When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
    • Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
    • Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
      • Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
    • AI Martin follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
    • AI Alex share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
    • AI Lars play with the Reddeer API
  • Dani: Update on PPC drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs bug 512224
    • Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm AI Alex and Dani ask Denis
  • Dani: Neon.3 RC3 please keep an eye on builds
  • Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week

Feb 15, 2017

Feb 8, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: bug 509412 - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
    • Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
    • Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
    • Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
    • Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
  • Dani: Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform
    • Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
    • Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
  • Dani: Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server
    • Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
  • Dani: Scenarios for UI Testing
    • Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
  • Dani: Sign Up for Security Rep
    • See Wayne's message to PMCs requesting PMC attendance
    • John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
    • Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
    • RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up since already following security issues
  • Dani+Alex: libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC
    • Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
    • Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
    • Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
    • Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
    • Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
    • If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
    • AI Dani+McQ find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
  • Alex: Update on Reddeer Testing Framework
    • A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
    • Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
    • Martin has been looking at RCPTT which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
    • (call had to be closed at this point)

Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled

Jan 24, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: New Jetty Version - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
  • Dani: javax.xml - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
    • Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
  • Alex: Reddeer Testing Framework
    • JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
    • Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
      • Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
      • API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
    • Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
      • Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
      • No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
    • Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about RCPTT, it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
    • Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
      • Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
    • Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
    • Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --> Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
      • Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
      • AI Alex to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
      • AI Martin to try installing Jubula until next week
      • AI Martin ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.

Jan 17, 2017 - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ

  • Sergey: Merging platform.resources with platform.ui
    • Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
      • Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
    • Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
    • Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
    • Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
      • McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
    • Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
    • Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even bug 509412 was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
    • Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
    • McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
  • Lars: Removing javax.xml
    • Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
    • Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
    • Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
    • McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
    • Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
    • AI Lars send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
  • Dani: Project Updates
    • Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
  • McQ: UI Testing and Jubula

Jan 10, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck

  • Dani: Platform Bits on Maven Central - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
  • Dani: Board Committer Rep Elections opening
  • Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
  • Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
  • Lars: Equinox move to Platform - no updates - AI Dani talk to Tom again
  • McQ / AlexS: Jubula
    • In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
    • Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
    • Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
    • AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
      • For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
      • Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
      • UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
      • Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
      • Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
      • Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure (AI AlexS to check)
      • Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
        • Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
      • AI AlexS send slides
      • AI Dani + Lars propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
      • AI AlexS check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started

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