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= Documents =
 
= Documents =
 
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
  
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= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
'''Oct 18, 2016''' - McQ, Sergey, Martin, Dani, Alex
 
* Dani: '''PMC Approval for Sergey co-lead on Resources''' (Done)
 
* Alex: '''Lucene Update'''
 
** Looking at updating to 6.x in Oxygen - CQs ongoing for Orbit - hoping to make M4
 
** Others like Mylyn, Pydev, ... use Lucene 5.x at this time; others consume the Platform
 
** There is some potential breaking things but should be fine since multiple Lucene's in parallel can work.
 
** If an old pre-built help index can not be read, a new one is generated (Performance hit on the first run)
 
** Dani: No issue, will also update Jetty in M4
 
* Dani: Would like to open '''eclipse.jdt''' repository and corresponding sub-project to all JDT committers (currently only used for the JDT feature)
 
** The project is almost dead with only 2 active committers, since new JDT leads were not voted in
 
** Changes to feature will be rare, and Dani agrees to review
 
** Allows to put the Oomph setup file into a shared place where all JDT committers have access
 
** PROPOSAL AGREED by all.
 
* EclipseCon Europe next week - Dani, Lars and Alex will be there - will '''cancel next week's meeting'''
 
  
<hr/>
 
'''Oct 11, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex, Sergey
 
* Dani: '''Neon Update 2 Endgame Plan sent''' - thanks for the feedback
 
* Sergey: We should talk about our release process.
 
** McQ asked Sergey to start the discussion via e-mail
 
* McQ: What do you think about Devoxx and Eclipse Converge
 
 
<hr/>
 
'''Oct 4, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex, Sergey
 
* Dani: '''Neon Update 2 Endgame Plan''' - working on it
 
* Dani: '''Release Review'''
 
** In the past, features were not announced - now for 4.6.2, features + release review must be in by RC1
 
** Will do the minimum necessary / required by EMO, for Update Releases.
 
* Lars: '''p2 merge into Equinox status''' -
 
* Sergey: '''Logistics of dealing with Service Releases'''
 
** Managing version increments is very fragile and error-prone
 
*** Discussion already happened, see {{bug|499164}} -- we'll not increment minor versions on backports even if API is added
 
*** '''AI Dani''' send a note out to eclipse-dev again
 
** '''New & Noteworthy / Features for Update Releases:'''
 
*** If there's new features, there must be a New&Noteworthy for users (everyone agrees)
 
*** What about doing two feature releases per year with one service release each ?
 
**** Dani: Not having features in "some" releases would defeat what the Community wanted
 
**** Alex thinks that allowing features every 6 months would calm down most demand for new features
 
**** PMC Review of feature backports worked fine so far
 
**** '''RESOLUTION''' Will not change the process before having it settle a bit
 
***** McQ would love to see a single development stream all the time ...
 
*** Would the Generic Editor be acceptable in a release before June 2017 ?
 
**** Tentatively yes, it's a separate bundle not affecting other code, it matters to the Community, so why not...
 
**** Martin: OK, but what about newly introduced API ... would it be declared "provisional" initially ?
 
**** Dani: There's no such thing as "provisional API". Teams who decide on backporting must also decide on API.
 
**** Sergey: CDT has done full feature release every quarter for some time now and hasn't screwed up API...
 
**** Martin,Lars,Sergey: What about marking "fresh" API as "@noreference under construction" until it's hardened...
 
***** McQ: Then declare APIs as official only once a year ?
 
***** Wouldn't want to tie to a yearly cycle again ... but then we're back to the Version Numbering discussion...
 
***** '''AI All''' continue discussion on mailing list or next week.
 
  
 +
'''August 15, 2017''' - Alex, Dani
 +
* Dani: '''subproject merge''' initiated - waiting for webmasters
 +
* Dani: Provided Photon (4.8) release record and plan - please provide comments
 +
* Alex and Dani discussed feature/bundle version issues - next builds should be better
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Sep 27, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex + Sergey Prigogin (guest)
 
* Discussion about PMC upstaffing
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''August 8, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani
'''Sep 20, 2016''' - Martin, McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex
+
* Eclipse [[Asterisk]] system is not working reliably (again). It took Dani 6 minutes until he could dial in (using the Swiss number - US number failed repeatedly). McQ can't dial in until 10 min later.
* Resources Leadership - '''AI Dani''' reach out to Szymon
+
* Dani: starting the '''planning record for Photon''' to announce participation in M1
* PMC upstaffing: Focus on large installs; UI Freeze monitor, code cleanup, solid solutions, focus on code reviews
+
** Toplevel items: JUnit5, Java9. Subplans on the Wiki.
* Dani: '''Java 9 Moved to July 2017''' - AI Dani talk to the Planning Council, proposing an "Update 1" in July
+
* Dani: '''subproject merge''' - wanted to wait for M1, but should be done this week
** Better for consumers, available via "just update", though little bit extra work (CQ + Release Review)
+
* Alex: '''ppc64be''' - Sravan is waiting on final decision whether it will be removed in Photon
** Schedule looks still aggressive when looking at specifications; need to keep the team motivated
+
** Dani: PMC decision was settled, so removed from Eclipse plan - IBM ''might'' still continue building it for internal use
* Dani: '''SelectionListener SWT Change''' - reverted for M2 since more clients were affected than expected
+
** Proposed change turned out to be source-incompatible - will look at a different approach
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Sep 13, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Lars
+
'''August 1, 2017''' - no call
* Upstaffing the PMC
+
* Build failures due to an SWT Change
+
  
<hr/>
+
'''July 25, 2017''' - Alex, Lars, Dani
'''Sep 6, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin
+
* project merge got go, Dani to implement it with webmaster and then send out the announcement this or next week. E-mail will also mention that existing project leads can become co-leads on Eclipse Platform
* Dani: Thanks for approving Noopur
+
* Discussion if CVS should be removed from the SDK build, Alex +1, Lars +1, Dani +1
* Dani: Java Language Server Proposal - at the Foundation, will be called "JDT Language Server"
+
* Discussion if the remaining 2.0 compatibility layer can be removed, Dani: OK to remove but other plug-ins might still have dependencies to it, must the also updated, as well as the documentation
* Dani: RC4 - Fix for an Equinox p2 issue, only known issue being fixed, looking good
+
* Dani: Looking at the generic code editor, would prefer moving some things to M3 (talking to Sopot and Mickael)
+
* LTS: Market for paid fixes on old versions not quite as good as expected
+
* Release Reviews: When is a feature considered an "important feature" ?
+
** Important Features require a full release review thus lots of effort, avoided for Neon.1
+
** '''AI Dani''' discuss in Planning Council call tomorrow
+
  
 +
'''July 18, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
 +
* project merge review awaiting go from Wayne - Dani pinged again in the bug report
 +
* Dani will kick off planning for Photon a bit earlier since he will be in Bangalore the next 12 days. Platform UI already started.
 +
* M1 on August 11
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
<strike>Aug 30, 2016 - No topics</strike>
+
'''July 11, 2017''' - no meeting
  
<strike>Aug 23, 2016 - No topics</strike>
+
'''July 4, 2017''' - no meeting
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Aug 16, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars
+
'''June 27, 2017''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
* Dani will not always be available next two weeks (Eclipse Summit India and IBM Bangalore team visit)
+
* '''Equinox Merge to the Eclipse TLP'''
** Please split the load on +1'ing backport/API requests - please do review the code and set the pmc+1 flag
+
** Keep Equinox as a separate Project, to allow independent Equinox releases without Platform (and keep Bugzilla simple)
* Dani: '''{{bug|498106}} Oxygen Plan'''
+
** The only argument for stronger integration would be getting more committers, but there is no strong need and we have the FastTrack process in place for that
** Agreed by all so far, including removal of REL6 as a reference platform
+
* '''Eclipse Merge of Component (Sub)Projects into Platform'''
** Individual subproject Wikis look pretty consistent now
+
** Just 4 Projects: Platform, Equinox, JDT, PDE (plus the incubators for e4 and JDT)
** UNIX Platforms (Solaris,AIX,HP-UX) have been removed for M1
+
** Former (Sub)Project Leads to become "Component Leads", "Technology Owners" or "Repository Owners"
*** PPC-Linux Releng was also removed but accidentally (due to a hardware failure), will be restored for M2.
+
*** Repository Ownership is appealing as the structure is very clear (+1 Dani,Alex,McQ)
** No consensus on Ubuntu yet - will keep 14.04 in for now, consider taking out on the next update
+
** Platform Lead initially Dani, more Co-Leads could step up if they want
* Dani: '''{{bug|499164}} Version Numbering for Neon.1'''
+
*** Main work is helping component leads if they can't come to a consensus - usually less work than PMC duties
** The original "+5" or "+10" proposal showed some issues:
+
* Dani: '''JSR 376 Ballot'''
** Update with skipping would propagate to features; no tooling; no real benefit of semantic versioning
+
** Public review reconsideration ballot got approved by all except Red Hat who abstained
** '''AGREEMENT''' to keeping using the status quo for now ("allow small updates even with micro uprev only")
+
** Much progress in the past weeks, consensus except RH abstained
* Lars: '''p2 pending patches'''
+
** Looks like the OOBE of Java9 would tolerate reflection, currently looks like on track for a September Release
** '''AI Dani''' send E-Mail to Tom - suggest reviews or merger p2 back to Platform
+
* '''Vacations''' many people will be off next week, especially in the U.S.
* Dani: '''{{bug|499399}} Eclipse Infrastructure Stability'''
+
** PMC call will be skipped next week
** Denis is looking at it - maybe too many requests coming in ?
+
* Lars: '''e4 spy and wizard migration to PDE'''
+
** Dani: Are wizards e4 specific, or could they be used with JFace ?
+
** New SWT Layout Spy should go to SWT, rather then keeping in PDE's Build
+
** Some spies usable also in RCP Apps - for example the e4 model spy - 6 independent projects, dependency on emf.edit
+
*** Looks like a big extension to PDE -- consider some consolidation and cleanup (tests, String externalization, ...)
+
*** '''AI Lars''' to check if contributors would be willing to clean up as discussed, then moving into pde.ui would be fine.
+
<hr/>
+
  
'''Aug 09, 2016''' - Dani
 
* no one joined - had private conversation with McQ later
 
** '''guys, please announce when you can't join. I can make better use of my time than waiting for you in the call ;-) - thanks.'''
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 
+
'''June 20, 2017''' - MQ, Dani, Lars, Alex
'''Aug 02, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
+
* Attracting new contributors discussions - code cleanup and deletion of old paths needed
* Dani: New [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_7_draft.xml Oxygen Plan Format]
+
** Alex: Big issue to get people working on codebase and considering many now irrelevant paths in the codebase
** '''AI Dani''' ask Denis about aggregating the Sub Wiki's into the master page
+
** Dani: Cleanups should be done by the one starting them through the whole SDK
* Alex: SWT Fragments for ARM64 etc
+
** Lars: Not feasible as some projects are slower pace moving and the change might require more effort than one can or is willing to spend in his free time
** Tycho doesn't support auto-selecting fragments - in contact with Jan and Tobias
+
** Alex: Great opportunity to have new people joining by doing simple tasks and grow them into full committers
** Dani: Would like to revert changes - don't want to punish people who are not interested in fragments
+
** McQ: We have to come up with list of items we would like to get cleaned and properly follow our deprecation policy even if the migration guide for Photon get really big with things we schedule for removal in the future.
** Not really an SWT problem, so editing .target files would be a clean solution
+
* Dani: Sub-projects merge
** Will probably go with empty (dummy) fragments without natives, as that's the simplest solution
+
** Name of the new project - McQ: Everyone refers to it as Platform so natural choice it is
* Dani: SWT team - Lakshmi going to Sweden, will not be available until end 2016
+
** JDT, PDE, Platform (subprojects) to become single project
** Arun is mostly back, Sravan is now on Releng
+
** Person responsible for some code area in the merged project - to be further dicussed
** Need to push further on building at the Foundation!!
+
* Dani: Dropping Xulrunner support - PMC to approve it in the bug
** Alex: Getting CentOS for building ... but test machines are on SLES11, which is too old, will need at least SLES12
+
*** Dani: Will need an owner at the Eclipse Foundation to ensure this proceeds ! Alex agreed to further drive this.
+
* Target Env: Dropping REL6 -- reference platform for testing will only be REL7 (though will continue to run on REL6)
+
** Reducing support level this year, in order to prepare for only supporting GTK3 next year
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''Juni 13, 2017''' - MQ, Dani, Lars
 +
* Dani: Release review for 4.7 was successful
 +
* Dani: Rebuild for 4.7RCa required due to new EMF version and a fix for a critical bug which resulted in duplicated menu entries
  
'''July 26, 2016''' - no meeting
+
* Merge of the sub-projects
 +
** Planned for M1, desired to be coordinated with the move of Equinox to Platform
 +
** We prefer to keep the project pages and wikis so that all the information is kept
 +
** Preferable we want to have one committer list for Eclipse platform
 +
** Dani to check with foundation how the merge can be done
  
'''July 19, 2016''' - no meeting
+
'''May 30, 2017''' - Martin, Dani, Lars
 +
* Dani: Please approve or disapprove the release review
 +
* Dani: '''Starting the Debugger doesn't work always'''
 +
** Occurs for Lars, but isn't reproducible - one of the top 3 things to fix if steps to reproduce are found
 +
** Lars: Equinox replaced the DS implementation in 4.7, the issue is probably related
 +
** Failure is totally random: On a very slow Virtual Machine, it failed almost always (9 failures out of 10); on other machine it works most of the time; even after working fine 3 times, it may fail the 4th time; seems to occur more frequently on older machines than newer ones.
 +
** Martin: try with a reverse debugger like [http://chrononsystems.com/products/chronon-time-travelling-debugger/download Chronon] ?
 +
*** Should help by just collecting a log; and when the failure occurs, "play back" the log to understand under what condition the race condition occurs; the a reproducible case is available, and the log can also be sent around between different developers for investigation, potentiall also to Apache Felix upstream
 +
* Dani: '''Equinox Launcher Issues'''
 +
** During M7, a change was made to ignore certain command-line arguments
 +
** This caused 2 regressions - {{bug|517013}} and {{bug|516349}} MacOSX restart regression
 +
** Java 9 will probably change the parameters again, see {{bug|516911}} :(
 +
** It's getting too late to make any more changes to the Launcher. Re-compiling on different hardware has already caused {{bug|517013}}, it's possible that more issues (not yet known) might be caused by the rebuild. With Java 9 probably changing again, we don't win much by rebuilding to try and align with something that's not yet released.
 +
*** Option A: Put options into the eclipse.ini -- today it works for both Java 8 and Java 9
 +
*** Option B: Add the "probably proposed" new option to the launcher, will need to rebuild the launcher again
 +
*** Option C: Revert the launcher to what it was before (and well tested) back to M6 - for running with Java 9, the options have to be added manually
 +
** Users will have to read on a webpage what needs to be done for Java 9 launching; for Eclipse SDK, a single option is needed - some add-on components
 +
*** Additional complexity: Different JVMs need different options (IBM, Oracle...)
 +
*** Martin: {{bug|517452}} Introduce a fallback mechanism to the launcher, which reads the Java ID and loads 'eclipse-javaID.ini' with a fallback to 'eclipse.ini', but does not seem reasonable for Oxygen since too late
 +
*** Better to have a clean story: At IBM, the entire build environment changed ... reverting gets us back to a bullet-proof launcher that was tested for 7 milestones ... will work safely with Java 8, for Java 9 people will have to read the N&N or StackOverflow to find out about the right arguments - same as in Neon
 +
* '''AGREEMENT to revert the Launcher to the M6 version'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 12, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Alex
+
'''May 23, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ
* Dani: Hackathon summary
+
* Dani: '''Apache Batik XXE Vulnerability'''
 +
** Alex: Moving to Batik 1.9 would be good, but there is so much UI breakage that it's not viable for Oxygen
 +
* Martin: '''Bugs discovered during RC test cycle'''
 +
** Surprised that some low-priority issues do get attention ({{bug|517108}}) while others get no response at all ({{bug|517013}}
 +
** Dani: Only interested in severe issues and regressions - send message to platform-releng-dev with severe regressions found
 +
** Dani: Please +1 the Gerrit for {{bug|517108}}
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 5, 2016''' - Lars, McQ, Alex, Dani, Martin
+
'''May 16, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars
* Lars: SWT move to Java 8
+
* Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
* Alex: Initial builds of GTK 2.24 for AIX - planning to bump minimum GTK version to 2.24
+
** Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
** Will remove non-cairo drawing, this is where most of the breakage happens
+
* {{bug|509922}} Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
** Ubuntu 12.04: 2.24.10 / 3.4.5
+
** Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
** RHEL 6: 2.24.23-6
+
** Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
** AIX, HP-UX, Solaris ? -- Oxygen will only focus on Linux, Windows, Mac
+
* '''Test failures:''' Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
** Secondary Platforms: Not built on EF Hardware, but interested parties can contribute binaries
+
** Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
** Trying to support Platforms which can't move up to modern GTK at a similar pace as Linux is hard
+
** CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
** '''AI Alex''' write up a message to the Community
+
** UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
* Lars: {{bug|486961}} extending the Eclipse Text Editor
+
* {{bug|516114}} Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
** Dani: Text Editor must remain unchanged, but feel free to provide a new different code editor
+
** Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
** https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=496114#c7
+
** The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
** Not against adding extension points ... but having the standard text editor adopt those is a no-go
+
** That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
* Dani: Build, and Hackathon
+
** Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
 +
*** The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
 +
** '''AGREEMENT:''' In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
 +
*** Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
 +
*** McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
 +
* Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
 +
* Alex: '''Project Structure'''
 +
** Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
 +
** Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
 +
** In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
 +
** Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
 +
** McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
 +
** Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move forward on this, with a ''Platform Leadership'' group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 28, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Alex
+
'''May 9, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ
* Discussion about Language Server Protocol
+
* Dani: '''JSR376 Jigsaw''': 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
** MS sponsoring hackathon in Zurich, Dani expected to go there
+
** From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
** The protocol has an Open Source license, but there is no Open Source Governance ... who owns the specification?
+
** JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
 +
** For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
 +
** JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
 +
* Dani: '''M7/RC0''' - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
 +
** When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
 +
**# Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
 +
**# Section forms layout
 +
* Dani: '''httpcore 4.4.1 -&gt; 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility'''
 +
** Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
 +
** People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
 +
** Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
 +
** Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
 +
** Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
 +
* Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
 +
* Dani: '''Release Review''', does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
 +
** All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
 +
** McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
 +
** Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
 +
** Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 21, 2016''' -  
+
'''May 2, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
*  
+
* Lars: '''Regex Evaluator Plugin'''
 +
** Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
 +
** Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
 +
** McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
 +
* Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
 +
* Dani: '''JSR Jigsaw Ballot'''
 +
** Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 14, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars
+
'''Apr 25, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
* McQ: '''Mattermost / Slack''' for communication
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3a'''
** not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
+
** Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
* Lars: '''Master is Open'''
+
*** '''AI Alex''' tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
** Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
+
*** Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem
** Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
+
** Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes ({{bug|360703}}) is open to improve that)
+
** We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
+
* Lars: '''Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ?''' - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
+
* McQ: '''Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che''' (from [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ide-dev/ ide-dev] mailing list and {{bug|496114}})
+
** The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
+
** The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
+
*** People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
+
** The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
+
** How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
+
*** At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
+
*** But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
+
* Dani: '''What goes into the Neon Update Releases'''
+
** as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
+
** '''AI: Dani''' will prepare a note
+
* Dani: '''Using Sound in Eclipse'''
+
** Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see {{bug|496003}})
+
** Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
+
** Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
+
** McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so '''that''' should really be leveraged
+
** Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
+
** Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
+
** Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.
+
 
+
'''June 7, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex
+
* no topics
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 31, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex
+
'''Apr 18, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
* Dani: '''IP Log'''
+
* Dani: '''RH and Java9 Jigsaw'''
** The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
+
** Very good write-up linked from the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03385.html AC Mailinglist] - see also [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03389.html follow-up]
** In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
+
** Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
* Dani: '''Release Review'''
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3 Respin'''
** Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
+
** Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
* Dani: '''Update Jetty to 3.9.3'''
+
* Lars: '''[https://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/glance#group-details Glance] Migration''' to e4 and/or Platform
** Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
+
** e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
* Dani: '''RC4 Status Update'''
+
* Lars
** Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command
+
** JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 24, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin
+
'''Apr 11, 2017''' - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani
* Dani: '''IP Log Generator''' - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
+
* Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
* Dani: '''Release Review''' - Deadline next week (June 2)
+
** There will be a special drop for Java 9 in July, but it has not yet been decided whether it will be a release where users automatically get the update, or a special p2 repository or Marketplace entry where the update can be done on demand.
* Dani: '''Deprecation Request from Brian'''
+
** Issues with Neon.3. A respin might be necessary. For details see https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/msg02741.html.
** Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
+
* Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date'''
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
+
** Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
+
** Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
+
** This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
+
* Dani: '''Neon Status'''
+
** Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 17, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
+
'''Apr 04, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
* Dani: '''{{Bug|475184}} Neon Plan Update 2'''
+
* Martin: {{bug|514257}} and [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev/msg14316.html cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue]
** Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
+
** Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
** SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
+
** Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
*** Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
+
** Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
**** Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
+
*** Commons Logging is not a Singleton
*** Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
+
** Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
** Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
+
* Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
** '''AI Dani''' to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
+
* Dani: '''PPC''' - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date''' - EMO: To be decided per project
+
** IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
+
** Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
+
*** gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
+
** Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
+
* Dani: '''Policy for Neon.Update Releases''' - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
+
** Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
+
** Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
+
** Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - '''decision''': discuss feature by feature at PMC
+
** Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
+
** In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
+
* Dani: '''Neon RC2 Builds Update'''
+
** Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
+
** Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
+
** GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
+
** Lars: {{bug|493477}} detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 10, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
+
'''Mar 28, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
* Dani: '''Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases'''
+
* Replacement for Sergey
** Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
+
** let's wait and see how things go
* Martin: '''RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2'''
+
** next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
** GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
+
* Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
*** Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
+
** all agree
** Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
+
** McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
*** Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
+
* Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
*** There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
+
* Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)
*** Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
+
** Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
+
*** Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
+
*** Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 3, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
+
'''Mar 21, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
* [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02598.html Brian's request on the PMC list]
+
* Dani: '''Dirk Fauth''' [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02891.html Requests on eclipse-pmc]
** McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
+
** Alex agrees with Dani
** Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
+
** Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
** Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...
+
** Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
** McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
+
* Dani: '''Szymon Ptasiewicz'''
** Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
+
** '''ACTION''' McQ to -1 and argue why.
+
 
+
* Alex: '''Update on Accessibility'''
+
** broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
+
** due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
+
** Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
+
*** and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
+
** Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 26, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
'''Mar 14, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
* Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 readiness''' - see [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev cross-project-issues-dev]
* Alex: '''Accessibility''' - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
+
** Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
** Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
+
*** Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
** McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
+
** Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the [[Java 9 Readiness]] wiki can show violations
* Alex: '''Platform.ui generification of project'''
+
*** Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
** Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
+
*** Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
** McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
+
** Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
** Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
+
** All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
** Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
+
*** This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
** '''ACTION Alex''' to prepare a message for review and then send that.
+
** Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
* Lars: '''Copyright discussion'''
+
* Dani: '''JUnit 5''' considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
** Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
+
** Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
** The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
+
* Dani: '''2 Platform Issues in M6'''
* Dani: '''Update on FEEP'''
+
** platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
** Paul not reached out yet
+
** major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
** A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
+
*** In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
* Dani: '''Update on M7'''
+
*** In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
** Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
+
* Alex: '''Generic Editor and Testing'''
** Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full
+
** Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
 
+
** Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
<br/>
+
** Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
'''April 19, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)
+
** In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"
* Dani: '''IP Stuff''' on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
+
* Dani: '''FEEP''' discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
+
** General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
+
** Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
+
** Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
+
* Dani: '''All PMC please review and +1 API requests''' when you find time
+
** McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
+
* '''Reviews vs. Features'''
+
** Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora
+
 
+
<br/>
+
'''April 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex
+
* Lars: '''Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement'''
+
** [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=485257#c13 bug 485257_c13] EMO: All information is in the git repos
+
** McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
+
** Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
+
** '''ACTION''' McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
+
 
+
* Lars: '''{{bug|490012}} Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE'''
+
** Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
+
** Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
+
** Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
+
** '''DECISION''' to get rid of the strict error per project.
+
 
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|475934}} API Change on model processing order'''
+
** Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
+
** McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
+
** McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
+
*** Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
+
*** Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
+
*** Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
+
** Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
+
** '''DECISION''' to allow making the change and announce widely.
+
 
+
* Dani: '''FEEP and EMO Hiring Update'''
+
** EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
+
** Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
+
** Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
+
 
+
* Dani: '''IDE-dev proposal'''
+
** People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
+
** Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
+
*** McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
+
*** OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
+
'''Mar 7, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
+
* Dani: '''4.6.3 Updates''' - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
** Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
+
* Dani: '''4.7M7 Update''' - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
** Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 / Planning Council Update''' - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
** Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
+
** See the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/ eclipse.org-planning-council archives]
* Dani: '''Solaris 32-bit'''
+
* Lars: '''Platform.Resources Leadership''' after Sergey Leaving
** Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
+
** Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
** Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
+
** Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
*** Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
+
** Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
** McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
+
** Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
* Dani: '''New Solstice Welcome'''
+
** Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept
** Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
+
** Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
+
** McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
+
* Alex: '''FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)'''
+
** "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
+
*** Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
+
*** It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
+
*** McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
+
** Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
+
*** '''AI Dani''' send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
+
*** '''AI Martin''' compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
+
** Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
+
** Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
+
*** McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
+
*** Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
+
*** McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal '''Transparency''' on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
+
*** McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
+
**** Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: '''THIS''' is what the FEEP should have adressed !
+
** Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
+
** Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
+
*** McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
+
** Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
+
* Lars '''Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy'''
+
** Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 29, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex
+
'''Feb 28, 2017''' - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ
* Lars: '''PDE Build in Maintenance''' - Officially state this ?
+
* Alex: '''Short update on Neon.3'''
** PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
+
** 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
** Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
+
** PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
** McQ: '''DECISION''' Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
+
* Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
* Lars: '''Integrate more projects into Platform UI?'''
+
* Martin: '''RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing'''
** Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
+
** Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
** Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
+
** Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
** Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
+
** Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
** '''DECISION''' to not merge projects at this time.
+
** '''AI Martin''' will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like {{bug|505826}} resolved ideally
* Lars: '''Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list'''
+
* McQ will be out next 2 weeks
** McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
+
** Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
+
** Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. '''AI Dani''' notify mailing list.
+
* Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
+
** Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 22, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
'''Feb 21, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey
* Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
+
* Lars: {{Bug|512273}} Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and {{Bug|512319}} allow rebase
* Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
+
** '''Agreement''' to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
* Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
+
** Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
* Discussion about Che
+
** '''AI Lars''' follow up on the bug
** McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
+
* Martin: '''UI Testing'''
** Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
+
** [http://eclipse.org/rcptt RCPTT] is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
** McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?
+
** Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
 +
** When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
 +
** Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
 +
** Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
 +
*** Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
 +
** '''AI Martin''' follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
 +
** '''AI Alex''' share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
 +
** '''AI Lars''' play with the Reddeer API
 +
* Dani: '''Update on PPC''' drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs {{bug|512224}}
 +
** Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm '''AI Alex and Dani''' ask Denis
 +
* Dani: '''Neon.3 RC3''' please keep an eye on builds
 +
* Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 15, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
'''Feb 15, 2017'''
* Dani: '''Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)'''
+
* Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
+
* McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
+
* Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
+
* Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
+
** Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
+
** Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
+
** Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
+
* VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
+
** Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
+
** Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)
+
 
+
'''March 8, 2016''' - No call
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 1, 2016''' - Dani, Martin
+
'''Feb 8, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
* Dani OOO next week
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|509412}}''' - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
* Alex: '''{{bug|179924}} SSH-agent authentication''' 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
+
** Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
** Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
+
** Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
** Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
+
** Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
* EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.
+
** Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
 +
* Dani: '''Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform'''
 +
** Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
 +
** Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
 +
* Dani: '''Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server'''
 +
** Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
 +
* Dani: '''Scenarios for UI Testing'''
 +
** Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
 +
* Dani: '''Sign Up for Security Rep'''
 +
** See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/tools-pmc/msg03927.html Wayne's message to PMCs] requesting PMC attendance
 +
** John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
 +
** Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
 +
** '''RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up''' since already following security issues
 +
* Dani+Alex: '''libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC'''
 +
** Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
 +
** Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
 +
** Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
 +
** Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
 +
** Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
 +
** If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
 +
** '''AI Dani+McQ''' find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
 +
* Alex: '''Update on Reddeer Testing Framework'''
 +
** A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
 +
** Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
 +
** Martin has been looking at [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT] which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
 +
** (call had to be closed at this point)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 23, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex
+
<strike>Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled</strike>
* Dani: '''Mars.2 is on track'''
+
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
+
** EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
+
* Dani: '''Update on Welcome'''
+
** Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
+
* McQ: '''Scrollbars on Windows''' and their appearance
+
** Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
+
** Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
+
** McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
+
** Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
+
** Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
+
** Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).
+
 
+
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
'''February 16, 2016''' - Alex, Dani, Martin
+
'''Jan 24, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
* no topics
+
* Dani: '''New Jetty Version''' - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
 +
* Dani: '''javax.xml''' - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
 +
** Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
 +
* Alex: '''[http://jboss-reddeer.github.io/reddeer/ Reddeer Testing Framework]'''
 +
** JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
 +
** Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
 +
*** Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
 +
*** API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
 +
** Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
 +
*** Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
 +
*** No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
 +
** Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT], it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
 +
** Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
 +
*** Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
 +
** Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
 +
** Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --&gt; Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
 +
*** Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
 +
*** '''AI Alex''' to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' to try installing Jubula until next week
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.
  
<hr/>
+
<hr>
 
+
'''Jan 17, 2017''' - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ
'''February 9, 2016''' - Alex, McQ, Dani
+
* Sergey: '''Merging platform.resources with platform.ui'''
* Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
+
** Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|466370}} Welcome Screen redesign
+
*** Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|472614}} Smart Project Importer
+
** Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
 
+
** Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
<hr/>
+
** Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
 
+
*** McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
'''February 2, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
** Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
* Dani: '''Foundation Hires''' - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
+
** Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even {{bug|509412}} was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
* Dani: '''Neon M5''' went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
+
** Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
* Dani: '''CQ Deadline''' on Feb.12 for Neon
+
** McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
* Dani: {{bug|486647}} for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
+
* Lars: '''Removing javax.xml'''
** With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
+
** Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
** Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
+
** Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
*** Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
+
** Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
*** We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
+
** McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
*** Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
+
** Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
** Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default
+
**'''AI Lars''' send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
 
+
* Dani: '''Project Updates'''
<hr/>
+
** Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
'''January 26, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars
+
* McQ: '''UI Testing and Jubula'''
* Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
+
* Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
+
* Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''January 19, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
+
* Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
+
** Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
+
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''PDE Build''' - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
+
** Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement '''in the Platform'''
+
** Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
+
** Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
+
** Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
+
* Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
+
** Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
+
* SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
+
* Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
+
** Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
+
* Martin: '''Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?'''
+
** Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
+
** Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
+
*** Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
+
** Debian or SuSE should be OK;
+
** Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''January 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Dani: '''Upstaffing the PMC'''
+
** Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
+
* Dani: '''Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng''' - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
+
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''Remove PDE Build from our drops?'''
+
** Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
+
** McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
+
** Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
+
* Dani: {{bug|485257}} '''Copyright Policy Change''' - waiting on EMO/Legal input
+
* Alex: '''Updating SWT to Java7'''
+
* McQ: '''Travel for EclipseCon'''
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''January 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani
+
* Dani: '''PMC Membership'''
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''Jan 10, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck
 +
* Dani: '''Platform Bits on Maven Central''' - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
 +
* Dani: '''Board Committer Rep Elections''' opening
 +
* Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
 +
* Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
 +
* Lars: '''Equinox move to Platform''' - no updates - '''AI Dani''' talk to Tom again
 +
* McQ / AlexS: '''Jubula'''
 +
** In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
 +
** Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
 +
** Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
 +
** AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
 +
*** For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
 +
*** Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
 +
*** UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
 +
*** Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
 +
*** Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
 +
*** Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure ('''AI AlexS to check''')
 +
*** Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
 +
**** Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' send slides
 +
*** '''AI Dani + Lars''' propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]

Revision as of 09:28, 17 August 2017

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

August 15, 2017 - Alex, Dani

  • Dani: subproject merge initiated - waiting for webmasters
  • Dani: Provided Photon (4.8) release record and plan - please provide comments
  • Alex and Dani discussed feature/bundle version issues - next builds should be better

August 8, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani

  • Eclipse Asterisk system is not working reliably (again). It took Dani 6 minutes until he could dial in (using the Swiss number - US number failed repeatedly). McQ can't dial in until 10 min later.
  • Dani: starting the planning record for Photon to announce participation in M1
    • Toplevel items: JUnit5, Java9. Subplans on the Wiki.
  • Dani: subproject merge - wanted to wait for M1, but should be done this week
  • Alex: ppc64be - Sravan is waiting on final decision whether it will be removed in Photon
    • Dani: PMC decision was settled, so removed from Eclipse plan - IBM might still continue building it for internal use

August 1, 2017 - no call

July 25, 2017 - Alex, Lars, Dani

  • project merge got go, Dani to implement it with webmaster and then send out the announcement this or next week. E-mail will also mention that existing project leads can become co-leads on Eclipse Platform
  • Discussion if CVS should be removed from the SDK build, Alex +1, Lars +1, Dani +1
  • Discussion if the remaining 2.0 compatibility layer can be removed, Dani: OK to remove but other plug-ins might still have dependencies to it, must the also updated, as well as the documentation

July 18, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • project merge review awaiting go from Wayne - Dani pinged again in the bug report
  • Dani will kick off planning for Photon a bit earlier since he will be in Bangalore the next 12 days. Platform UI already started.
  • M1 on August 11

July 11, 2017 - no meeting

July 4, 2017 - no meeting


June 27, 2017 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Equinox Merge to the Eclipse TLP
    • Keep Equinox as a separate Project, to allow independent Equinox releases without Platform (and keep Bugzilla simple)
    • The only argument for stronger integration would be getting more committers, but there is no strong need and we have the FastTrack process in place for that
  • Eclipse Merge of Component (Sub)Projects into Platform
    • Just 4 Projects: Platform, Equinox, JDT, PDE (plus the incubators for e4 and JDT)
    • Former (Sub)Project Leads to become "Component Leads", "Technology Owners" or "Repository Owners"
      • Repository Ownership is appealing as the structure is very clear (+1 Dani,Alex,McQ)
    • Platform Lead initially Dani, more Co-Leads could step up if they want
      • Main work is helping component leads if they can't come to a consensus - usually less work than PMC duties
  • Dani: JSR 376 Ballot
    • Public review reconsideration ballot got approved by all except Red Hat who abstained
    • Much progress in the past weeks, consensus except RH abstained
    • Looks like the OOBE of Java9 would tolerate reflection, currently looks like on track for a September Release
  • Vacations many people will be off next week, especially in the U.S.
    • PMC call will be skipped next week

June 20, 2017 - MQ, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Attracting new contributors discussions - code cleanup and deletion of old paths needed
    • Alex: Big issue to get people working on codebase and considering many now irrelevant paths in the codebase
    • Dani: Cleanups should be done by the one starting them through the whole SDK
    • Lars: Not feasible as some projects are slower pace moving and the change might require more effort than one can or is willing to spend in his free time
    • Alex: Great opportunity to have new people joining by doing simple tasks and grow them into full committers
    • McQ: We have to come up with list of items we would like to get cleaned and properly follow our deprecation policy even if the migration guide for Photon get really big with things we schedule for removal in the future.
  • Dani: Sub-projects merge
    • Name of the new project - McQ: Everyone refers to it as Platform so natural choice it is
    • JDT, PDE, Platform (subprojects) to become single project
    • Person responsible for some code area in the merged project - to be further dicussed
  • Dani: Dropping Xulrunner support - PMC to approve it in the bug

Juni 13, 2017 - MQ, Dani, Lars

  • Dani: Release review for 4.7 was successful
  • Dani: Rebuild for 4.7RCa required due to new EMF version and a fix for a critical bug which resulted in duplicated menu entries
  • Merge of the sub-projects
    • Planned for M1, desired to be coordinated with the move of Equinox to Platform
    • We prefer to keep the project pages and wikis so that all the information is kept
    • Preferable we want to have one committer list for Eclipse platform
    • Dani to check with foundation how the merge can be done

May 30, 2017 - Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Dani: Please approve or disapprove the release review
  • Dani: Starting the Debugger doesn't work always
    • Occurs for Lars, but isn't reproducible - one of the top 3 things to fix if steps to reproduce are found
    • Lars: Equinox replaced the DS implementation in 4.7, the issue is probably related
    • Failure is totally random: On a very slow Virtual Machine, it failed almost always (9 failures out of 10); on other machine it works most of the time; even after working fine 3 times, it may fail the 4th time; seems to occur more frequently on older machines than newer ones.
    • Martin: try with a reverse debugger like Chronon ?
      • Should help by just collecting a log; and when the failure occurs, "play back" the log to understand under what condition the race condition occurs; the a reproducible case is available, and the log can also be sent around between different developers for investigation, potentiall also to Apache Felix upstream
  • Dani: Equinox Launcher Issues
    • During M7, a change was made to ignore certain command-line arguments
    • This caused 2 regressions - bug 517013 and bug 516349 MacOSX restart regression
    • Java 9 will probably change the parameters again, see bug 516911 :(
    • It's getting too late to make any more changes to the Launcher. Re-compiling on different hardware has already caused bug 517013, it's possible that more issues (not yet known) might be caused by the rebuild. With Java 9 probably changing again, we don't win much by rebuilding to try and align with something that's not yet released.
      • Option A: Put options into the eclipse.ini -- today it works for both Java 8 and Java 9
      • Option B: Add the "probably proposed" new option to the launcher, will need to rebuild the launcher again
      • Option C: Revert the launcher to what it was before (and well tested) back to M6 - for running with Java 9, the options have to be added manually
    • Users will have to read on a webpage what needs to be done for Java 9 launching; for Eclipse SDK, a single option is needed - some add-on components
      • Additional complexity: Different JVMs need different options (IBM, Oracle...)
      • Martin: bug 517452 Introduce a fallback mechanism to the launcher, which reads the Java ID and loads 'eclipse-javaID.ini' with a fallback to 'eclipse.ini', but does not seem reasonable for Oxygen since too late
      • Better to have a clean story: At IBM, the entire build environment changed ... reverting gets us back to a bullet-proof launcher that was tested for 7 milestones ... will work safely with Java 8, for Java 9 people will have to read the N&N or StackOverflow to find out about the right arguments - same as in Neon
  • AGREEMENT to revert the Launcher to the M6 version

May 23, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: Apache Batik XXE Vulnerability
    • Alex: Moving to Batik 1.9 would be good, but there is so much UI breakage that it's not viable for Oxygen
  • Martin: Bugs discovered during RC test cycle
    • Surprised that some low-priority issues do get attention (bug 517108) while others get no response at all (bug 517013
    • Dani: Only interested in severe issues and regressions - send message to platform-releng-dev with severe regressions found
    • Dani: Please +1 the Gerrit for bug 517108

May 16, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
    • Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
  • bug 509922 Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
    • Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
    • Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
  • Test failures: Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
    • Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
    • CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
    • UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
  • bug 516114 Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
    • Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
    • The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
    • That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
    • Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
      • The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
    • AGREEMENT: In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
      • Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
      • McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
  • Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
  • Alex: Project Structure
    • Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
    • Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
    • In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
    • Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
    • McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
    • Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
    • AGREEMENT to move forward on this, with a Platform Leadership group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.

May 9, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: JSR376 Jigsaw: 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
    • From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
    • JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
    • For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
    • JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
  • Dani: M7/RC0 - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
    • When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
      1. Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
      2. Section forms layout
  • Dani: httpcore 4.4.1 -> 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility
    • Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
    • People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
    • Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
    • Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
    • Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
    • AGREEMENT to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
  • Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
  • Dani: Release Review, does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
    • All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
    • McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
    • Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
    • Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
    • AGREEMENT to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.

May 2, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Lars: Regex Evaluator Plugin
    • Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
    • Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
    • McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
    • AGREEMENT to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
  • Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
  • Dani: JSR Jigsaw Ballot
    • Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard

Apr 25, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Neon.3a
    • Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
      • AI Alex tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
      • Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem

Apr 18, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Dani: RH and Java9 Jigsaw
    • Very good write-up linked from the AC Mailinglist - see also follow-up
    • Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
  • Dani: Neon.3 Respin
    • Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
  • Lars: Glance Migration to e4 and/or Platform
    • e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
  • Lars
    • JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache

Apr 11, 2017 - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
  • Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.

Apr 04, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Martin: bug 514257 and cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue
    • Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
    • Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
    • Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
      • Commons Logging is not a Singleton
    • Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
  • Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
  • Dani: PPC - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week

Mar 28, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Replacement for Sergey
    • let's wait and see how things go
    • next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
  • Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
    • all agree
    • McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
  • Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
  • Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)

Mar 21, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Dirk Fauth Requests on eclipse-pmc
    • Alex agrees with Dani
    • Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
    • Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
  • Dani: Szymon Ptasiewicz

Mar 14, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Java 9 readiness - see cross-project-issues-dev
    • Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
      • Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
    • Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the Java 9 Readiness wiki can show violations
      • Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
      • Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
    • Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
    • All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
      • This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
    • Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
  • Dani: JUnit 5 considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
    • Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
  • Dani: 2 Platform Issues in M6
    • platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
    • major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
      • In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
      • In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
  • Alex: Generic Editor and Testing
    • Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
    • Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
    • Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
    • In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"

Mar 7, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars

  • Dani: 4.6.3 Updates - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
  • Dani: 4.7M7 Update - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
  • Dani: Java 9 / Planning Council Update - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
  • Lars: Platform.Resources Leadership after Sergey Leaving
    • Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
    • Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
    • Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
    • Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
    • Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept

Feb 28, 2017 - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Alex: Short update on Neon.3
    • 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
    • PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
  • Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
  • Martin: RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing
    • Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
    • Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
    • Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
    • AI Martin will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like bug 505826 resolved ideally
  • McQ will be out next 2 weeks

Feb 21, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey

  • Lars: bug 512273 Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and bug 512319 allow rebase
    • Agreement to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
    • Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
    • AI Lars follow up on the bug
  • Martin: UI Testing
    • RCPTT is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
    • Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
    • When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
    • Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
    • Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
      • Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
    • AI Martin follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
    • AI Alex share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
    • AI Lars play with the Reddeer API
  • Dani: Update on PPC drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs bug 512224
    • Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm AI Alex and Dani ask Denis
  • Dani: Neon.3 RC3 please keep an eye on builds
  • Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week

Feb 15, 2017


Feb 8, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: bug 509412 - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
    • Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
    • Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
    • Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
    • Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
  • Dani: Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform
    • Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
    • Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
  • Dani: Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server
    • Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
  • Dani: Scenarios for UI Testing
    • Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
  • Dani: Sign Up for Security Rep
    • See Wayne's message to PMCs requesting PMC attendance
    • John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
    • Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
    • RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up since already following security issues
  • Dani+Alex: libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC
    • Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
    • Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
    • Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
    • Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
    • Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
    • If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
    • AI Dani+McQ find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
  • Alex: Update on Reddeer Testing Framework
    • A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
    • Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
    • Martin has been looking at RCPTT which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
    • (call had to be closed at this point)

Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled


Jan 24, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: New Jetty Version - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
  • Dani: javax.xml - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
    • Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
  • Alex: Reddeer Testing Framework
    • JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
    • Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
      • Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
      • API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
    • Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
      • Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
      • No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
    • Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about RCPTT, it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
    • Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
      • Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
    • Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
    • Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --> Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
      • Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
      • AI Alex to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
      • AI Martin to try installing Jubula until next week
      • AI Martin ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.

Jan 17, 2017 - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ

  • Sergey: Merging platform.resources with platform.ui
    • Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
      • Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
    • Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
    • Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
    • Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
      • McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
    • Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
    • Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even bug 509412 was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
    • Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
    • McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
  • Lars: Removing javax.xml
    • Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
    • Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
    • Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
    • McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
    • Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
    • AI Lars send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
  • Dani: Project Updates
    • Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
  • McQ: UI Testing and Jubula

Jan 10, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck

  • Dani: Platform Bits on Maven Central - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
  • Dani: Board Committer Rep Elections opening
  • Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
  • Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
  • Lars: Equinox move to Platform - no updates - AI Dani talk to Tom again
  • McQ / AlexS: Jubula
    • In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
    • Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
    • Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
    • AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
      • For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
      • Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
      • UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
      • Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
      • Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
      • Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure (AI AlexS to check)
      • Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
        • Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
      • AI AlexS send slides
      • AI Dani + Lars propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
      • AI AlexS check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started

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