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= Documents =
 
= Documents =
 
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
  
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= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
'''February 1, 2012:''' - Dani, Martin, John
 
* Dani: '''No UA Committers any more''' - move UA under Platform UI such that at least somebody can apply patches
 
** AI John check with Wayne ... UA is a subcomponent now, may not even need a move review.
 
* Dani: {{bug|343150}} git '''DenyNonFastForward'''
 
** Orion could eventually add tooling to support easy workflows in spite of deny on the repo ... but not in this release
 
** Ping on the bug again and proceed
 
* John: Decide when to switch 4.2 builds from re-using 3.x binary bundles vs full 4.x builds
 
** Today, the 4.x testsuite just tests 4.x specific stuff; things like JDT tests just run against 3.8 today
 
** Today, cannot generate Javadocs in 4.x today sine it needs the full source
 
** Today, nightlies are running 3.x only (could change to running 4.x nightlies only)
 
** Today, 3.x builds run at IBM and 4.x builds run at Eclipse.org
 
** Only few test failures left in the 4.x builds --> ready to switch
 
** AI: '''Kim''' to send 4.x test results to the mailing list, consider switching right after M5
 
** '''Performance Tests:''' Not yet run on 4.x yet - should be able to run on Denis' vserver
 
*** IBM is going to lose the physical machines for performance tests in 2 weeks ! (Going to migrate to vserver too!)
 
*** Need a new baseline
 
** Andrew: at '''FOSSLC''' in Brussels this week, going to represent Eclipse with Mike Milinkovich, Gunnar Wagenknecht and others
 
 
<hr/>
 
'''January 25, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew, Dani
 
* McQ: '''Note about 4.2 on Release Train'''
 
* Andrew: '''Eclipse 4.2 for Fedora''' - Feature note written for Eclipse Juno led to some discussion at Eng.Steering Committee, but finally approved
 
* Dani: Team down by 1 but no impact (Dani is going to take over responsibilities)
 
* John: '''Build Failures in UA, Update, PDE, p2 yesterday''' after the move to Java 7... nobody watching these, need to find caretakers
 
** UA tests often fail due to a link validity checker, these can be caused by anyone
 
** Certificate Validity issue (Jar signing)
 
  
 +
'''July 18, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
 +
* project merge review awaiting go from Wayne - Dani pinged again in the bug report
 +
* Dani will kick off planning for Photon a bit earlier since he will be in Bangalore the next 12 days. Platform UI already started.
 +
* M1 on August 11
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 18, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew, Dani
+
'''July 11, 2017''' - no meeting
* McQ: '''4.2 quality''' and next steps
+
** More resources found to enable 4.2 as the LTS base - encouraging, although some items still missing
+
** Fedora 17 think about shipping 4.2m6 (work ongoing) - that would be a large stack on top of 4.2
+
** John: '''Oracle Java 7 as Reference Platform''' now that the most severe issues are fixed (Java 6 EOL is June 2012 !) - that is Oracle, not OpenJDK
+
*** Not remove Java 6 for now
+
*** Fedora also does all tests on 7
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 11, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''July 4, 2017''' - no meeting
* McQ: '''State of Presentation API's'''
+
** Different API's in 4.2 and 3.x -- will need to deprecate API in 3.x
+
** Christian suggested deleting API that's not implemented in 4.x to get compile errors ... John thinks that binary compatibility is more important
+
*** Plugins will be "mostly OK", presentation API is cosmetic anyways
+
** McQ: get in touch with clients who use presentation API, telling them what's best to do ... often newer 4.x infrastructure is much better than trying to keep 3.x around forever
+
* Andrew: '''Cairo and GTK3'''
+
* John: '''4.2 compiling now'''
+
* Martin: '''Updated JSch-0.1.44 version''' - how to announce properly
+
** AI Martin Announce on eclipse-dev and cross-project
+
** Should also put into migrtion notes and README
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 4, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''June 27, 2017''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
* McQ: Pascal's note about p2 leadership .. not sure who could step in and make a commitment (may see the same fate as UA)
+
* '''Equinox Merge to the Eclipse TLP'''
** Tom Watson looking for candidates, but looks like none in McQ's team
+
** Keep Equinox as a separate Project, to allow independent Equinox releases without Platform (and keep Bugzilla simple)
 +
** The only argument for stronger integration would be getting more committers, but there is no strong need and we have the FastTrack process in place for that
 +
* '''Eclipse Merge of Component (Sub)Projects into Platform'''
 +
** Just 4 Projects: Platform, Equinox, JDT, PDE (plus the incubators for e4 and JDT)
 +
** Former (Sub)Project Leads to become "Component Leads", "Technology Owners" or "Repository Owners"
 +
*** Repository Ownership is appealing as the structure is very clear (+1 Dani,Alex,McQ)
 +
** Platform Lead initially Dani, more Co-Leads could step up if they want
 +
*** Main work is helping component leads if they can't come to a consensus - usually less work than PMC duties
 +
* Dani: '''JSR 376 Ballot'''
 +
** Public review reconsideration ballot got approved by all except Red Hat who abstained
 +
** Much progress in the past weeks, consensus except RH abstained
 +
** Looks like the OOBE of Java9 would tolerate reflection, currently looks like on track for a September Release
 +
* '''Vacations''' many people will be off next week, especially in the U.S.
 +
** PMC call will be skipped next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''December 14, 2011:''' - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Andrew
+
'''June 20, 2017''' - MQ, Dani, Lars, Alex
* API Tooling Baseline comparison 3.7 vs 4.2 -- problematic since API was copied
+
* Attracting new contributors discussions - code cleanup and deletion of old paths needed
* {{bug|343150}} git '''denyNonFastForward''' ie forbid commits that rewrite history ... looking for general policy ... Eclipse Project to adopt immediately.
+
** Alex: Big issue to get people working on codebase and considering many now irrelevant paths in the codebase
** Andrew: Denis may roll out the change to all repos
+
** Dani: Cleanups should be done by the one starting them through the whole SDK
** Resolution: Wait until after Christmas, if not rolled out by then move forward ourselves
+
** Lars: Not feasible as some projects are slower pace moving and the change might require more effort than one can or is willing to spend in his free time
* McQ (Tom Watson): '''Leadership for p2 team'''
+
** Alex: Great opportunity to have new people joining by doing simple tasks and grow them into full committers
* John: '''4.2 Builder switching to Hudson for M5''' - not all of the UI tests compile
+
** McQ: We have to come up with list of items we would like to get cleaned and properly follow our deprecation policy even if the migration guide for Photon get really big with things we schedule for removal in the future.
** Lot of test failures
+
* Dani: Sub-projects merge
** Just flip the switch to Hudson, and live with failures at some point ... (and commit to fixing test failures as fast as we can)
+
** Name of the new project - McQ: Everyone refers to it as Platform so natural choice it is
** Fixing a components' test is the component team's job.
+
** JDT, PDE, Platform (subprojects) to become single project
* Vacations: '''Skip next 2 weeks'''
+
** Person responsible for some code area in the merged project - to be further dicussed
 +
* Dani: Dropping Xulrunner support - PMC to approve it in the bug
  
<hr/>
 
'''December 7, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin
 
* Martin: {{bug|365908}} with 4.2m4 not picking up extensions from dropins/
 
* John / Dani - XML problems breaking the build due to a "Help Index Generation" ant task
 
* John / Anrew - '''Hudson Failures''', Platform fortunately not there
 
** Reasons: Hudson can't tag and can't deploy to downloads
 
** John: It makes sense that the Hudson user can't write to the Repo
 
** Orion: Start from a shellscript (for tagging), then kick off a Hudson build partway through
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''Juni 13, 2017''' - MQ, Dani, Lars
'''November 30, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin, McQ
+
* Dani: Release review for 4.7 was successful
* Andrew - '''Long Term Support'''. McQ - Overlap is in the build technology, can't be done for Juno (still busy with git + hudson), but happy to consume what's being developed
+
* Dani: Rebuild for 4.7RCa required due to new EMF version and a fix for a critical bug which resulted in duplicated menu entries
** Foundation contracted with Sonatype (Igor) for moving to Tycho, but just analyzing the current build may take 4 months
+
** Linuxtools currently using a small ant wrapper which just calls the Platform build (generate a source tarball such that linux distros can consume Platform from source;
+
* Martin - '''User Assistance Situation'''
+
** Chris G moved to Jazz - Rest of the IBM team completely maxed already, would fix critical security defects only
+
** Some work has been done by other IBM committers.. could release patches, but can't be responsive to fixes
+
** There's an opportunity for others in the Community to step in and set the direction
+
** McQ: The only one most important issue at the moment is compliance with the new US Government accessibility regulations
+
** Newer Lucene; Help Search Stemming problems; nobody actively tracking the inbox
+
** John: Have been moving "committer-less" components into the general Platform component where 12+ committers have commit rights
+
** McQ: Platform project Zombies is OK, but having somebody step up would be better
+
** John: 3rd party dependencies... help has a few, eg upgrading to Jetty (managed by Chris before he left)
+
*** Lucene: Merged with SOLR, then 3 releases came out in the past 3 months, no Foundation CQ's in ... John interested in adopting Orion
+
*** Been in contact with Gunnar Wagenknecht who is also interested, but newer Lucene pulls in more dependencies than it needs
+
** Failing Search : would need an exact bug report where the search is failing, then McQ could get product teams excited
+
** John: Orion problem with older lucene is that it's leaking file handles ... less of a problem for Platform where we index only once
+
* John - {{bug|363948}} '''Eclipse 3.8 to 4.2 update'''
+
** Fix would involve changing metadata in p2 such that a 3.8 update wouldn't find 4.2 automatically, unless a specific update is requested
+
** That fix leverages what Pascal from p2 considers a bug
+
** Products could manage the problem by not adding the Juno repository.. but there's lots of things in Juno that people would want (eg egit, cdt, ...)
+
*** Fix that John thinks about would be on the product level
+
  
<hr/>
+
* Merge of the sub-projects
'''November 23, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew
+
** Planned for M1, desired to be coordinated with the move of Equinox to Platform
* Discussion of whether to turn on auto-tagging in maintenance builds. General agreement this is a good idea. We would not have a separate "integration" branch for maintenance streams.
+
** We prefer to keep the project pages and wikis so that all the information is kept
* Some discussion of EclipseCon submissions. PC voting is underway and program should be decided in the next two weeks. There is a great program of submissions so far, and it will be tough to select the talks that will make the cut.
+
** Preferable we want to have one committer list for Eclipse platform
 +
** Dani to check with foundation how the merge can be done
  
<hr/>
+
'''May 30, 2017''' - Martin, Dani, Lars
'''October 26, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew, McQ
+
* Dani: Please approve or disapprove the release review
 
+
* Dani: '''Starting the Debugger doesn't work always'''
* Approve Paul Webster as Platform UI project lead
+
** Occurs for Lars, but isn't reproducible - one of the top 3 things to fix if steps to reproduce are found
** Committer vote [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-ui-dev/msg04980.html here].
+
** Lars: Equinox replaced the DS implementation in 4.7, the issue is probably related
** The PMC members unanimously approve this nomination
+
** Failure is totally random: On a very slow Virtual Machine, it failed almost always (9 failures out of 10); on other machine it works most of the time; even after working fine 3 times, it may fail the 4th time; seems to occur more frequently on older machines than newer ones.
** John to send note to EMO
+
** Martin: try with a reverse debugger like [http://chrononsystems.com/products/chronon-time-travelling-debugger/download Chronon] ?
* Some discussion of the Eclipse Platform UI Git disaster - {{bug|361707}}
+
*** Should help by just collecting a log; and when the failure occurs, "play back" the log to understand under what condition the race condition occurs; the a reproducible case is available, and the log can also be sent around between different developers for investigation, potentiall also to Apache Felix upstream
** Currently any committer can delete everything from the repository permanently
+
* Dani: '''Equinox Launcher Issues'''
** The commit hook prevents committers from restoring commits made by others that they have in their local clone
+
** During M7, a change was made to ignore certain command-line arguments
**  
+
** This caused 2 regressions - {{bug|517013}} and {{bug|516349}} MacOSX restart regression
 +
** Java 9 will probably change the parameters again, see {{bug|516911}} :(
 +
** It's getting too late to make any more changes to the Launcher. Re-compiling on different hardware has already caused {{bug|517013}}, it's possible that more issues (not yet known) might be caused by the rebuild. With Java 9 probably changing again, we don't win much by rebuilding to try and align with something that's not yet released.
 +
*** Option A: Put options into the eclipse.ini -- today it works for both Java 8 and Java 9
 +
*** Option B: Add the "probably proposed" new option to the launcher, will need to rebuild the launcher again
 +
*** Option C: Revert the launcher to what it was before (and well tested) back to M6 - for running with Java 9, the options have to be added manually
 +
** Users will have to read on a webpage what needs to be done for Java 9 launching; for Eclipse SDK, a single option is needed - some add-on components
 +
*** Additional complexity: Different JVMs need different options (IBM, Oracle...)
 +
*** Martin: {{bug|517452}} Introduce a fallback mechanism to the launcher, which reads the Java ID and loads 'eclipse-javaID.ini' with a fallback to 'eclipse.ini', but does not seem reasonable for Oxygen since too late
 +
*** Better to have a clean story: At IBM, the entire build environment changed ... reverting gets us back to a bullet-proof launcher that was tested for 7 milestones ... will work safely with Java 8, for Java 9 people will have to read the N&N or StackOverflow to find out about the right arguments - same as in Neon
 +
* '''AGREEMENT to revert the Launcher to the M6 version'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''October 12, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ
+
'''May 23, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ
* PMC upstaffing - looking for more Community input
+
* Dani: '''Apache Batik XXE Vulnerability'''
* egit bug backlog
+
** Alex: Moving to Batik 1.9 would be good, but there is so much UI breakage that it's not viable for Oxygen
* e4 builds
+
* Martin: '''Bugs discovered during RC test cycle'''
* p2 downloadable archived repos
+
** Surprised that some low-priority issues do get attention ({{bug|517108}}) while others get no response at all ({{bug|517013}}
* Moving to 4.x
+
** Dani: Only interested in severe issues and regressions - send message to platform-releng-dev with severe regressions found
** Community is moving ... any product that's not planned for EOL needs to move
+
** Dani: Please +1 the Gerrit for {{bug|517108}}
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''October 5, 2011:''' - Dani, John, McQ
+
'''May 16, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars
* Some discussion of removing CVS from the SDK ({{bug|359466}}). There is no strong argument for removing it, so it is hard to argue for disruption to user community. In the end we would like CVS to be removed and would like it to be just as easy to install any SCM into the platform. We would like to see the p2 discovery UI used to make it trivial to add SCM support into SDK (Help > Add Version Control > CVS). Once we had that in place we would be in a better position to remove CVS by default.
+
* Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
* We also discussed the Git line delimiter problems. Current recommendation:
+
** Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
** core.autocrlf=false - not honoured by JGit so this makes things worse
+
* {{bug|509922}} Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
** Use Global workspace setting to use Unix line feeds by default
+
** Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
** Encourage projects to add a project-specific setting to use Unix line feeds
+
** Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
 +
* '''Test failures:''' Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
 +
** Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
 +
** CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
 +
** UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
 +
* {{bug|516114}} Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
 +
** Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
 +
** The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
 +
** That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
 +
** Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
 +
*** The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
 +
** '''AGREEMENT:''' In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
 +
*** Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
 +
*** McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
 +
* Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
 +
* Alex: '''Project Structure'''
 +
** Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
 +
** Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
 +
** In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
 +
** Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
 +
** McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
 +
** Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move forward on this, with a ''Platform Leadership'' group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 21, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Martin
+
'''May 9, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ
* Dani: '''git''' - Mac / Linux using scripts, tooling not yet ready for Windows ... productivity lacks
+
* Dani: '''JSR376 Jigsaw''': 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
** painful when working across multiple repositories ... problematic workflow for reviewing incoming changes
+
** From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
** John: egit could fetch automatically in the background (without merge)
+
** JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
* John: '''used platforms poll'''
+
** For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
** Results visible once voted: [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/platform-poll.php platform-poll.php]
+
** JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
 +
* Dani: '''M7/RC0''' - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
 +
** When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
 +
**# Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
 +
**# Section forms layout
 +
* Dani: '''httpcore 4.4.1 -&gt; 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility'''
 +
** Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
 +
** People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
 +
** Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
 +
** Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
 +
** Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
 +
* Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
 +
* Dani: '''Release Review''', does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
 +
** All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
 +
** McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
 +
** Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
 +
** Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 14, 2011:''' - John, McQ, Dani, Martin
+
'''May 2, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
* Martin: '''PMC membership''' - still looking for people to ask after Steve and Jeff left
+
* Lars: '''Regex Evaluator Plugin'''
* John: '''Jetty 8''' - should be using Jetty from Eclipse (Jetty 7 ist stable, Jetty 8 is current) but API changes after Jetty 6
+
** Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
** eg standalone help - AI John to ping Chris G;
+
** Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
** No longer re-exporting Jetty API since 3.6 (deprecated api, introduced replacements)
+
** McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
** releng, would need Jetty at -1 if using current from train .. makes builds a bit more messy again
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
** check with Equinox
+
* Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
 +
* Dani: '''JSR Jigsaw Ballot'''
 +
** Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 7, 2011:''' - John, McQ
+
'''Apr 25, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
* State of building Juno at eclipse.org: we are close but still some issues with the tests. Transition to Git halted our progress on this. Once the Git migration is complete, we should just make the switch over and live with the pain of some failing tests. Component teams will need to help with diagnosing problems with their tests.
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3a'''
 +
** Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
 +
*** '''AI Alex''' tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
 +
*** Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 31, 2011:''' - Dani, John
+
'''Apr 18, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
 
+
* Dani: '''RH and Java9 Jigsaw'''
* We need to pull the new ICU4J out of maintenance release because the fix didn't pass review in time. We will defer to Indigo SR2
+
** Very good write-up linked from the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03385.html AC Mailinglist] - see also [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03389.html follow-up]
* Some discussion of the treatment of tags in Git vs CVS. Committers need to be aware they can't checkout the contents of a particular build into their workspace all at once.
+
** Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
 +
* Dani: '''Neon.3 Respin'''
 +
** Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
 +
* Lars: '''[https://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/glance#group-details Glance] Migration''' to e4 and/or Platform
 +
** e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
 +
* Lars
 +
** JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 
+
'''Apr 11, 2017''' - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani
'''August 24, 2011:''' - Dani, John
+
* Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
* EGit is far behind on level of polish, usability, robustness, conforming to UI guidelines, etc. We may need to make contributions to avoid it hurting productivity
+
** There will be a special drop for Java 9 in July, but it has not yet been decided whether it will be a release where users automatically get the update, or a special p2 repository or Marketplace entry where the update can be done on demand.
* Proposed workflow changes in bugzilla 4.0: {{bug|337245}}. Proposing removing NEW, ASSIGNED and CLOSED states which would lose valuable information for us.
+
** Issues with Neon.3. A respin might be necessary. For details see https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/msg02741.html.
 +
* Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 
+
'''Apr 04, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
'''August 10, 2011:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
* Martin: {{bug|514257}} and [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev/msg14316.html cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue]
* Dani / Martin - '''Debug Flexible Hierarchy "provisional.api" namespace'''
+
** Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
** Cannot be moved into an "API" namespace without breaking external non-SDK clients since types are leaked from internal packages
+
** Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
** Q1: Move framework to a place outside Debug?
+
** Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
** Q2: Declare "internal" packages as API? - API Tools won't be usable
+
*** Commons Logging is not a Singleton
** McQ: Is it really impossible to add new API in parallel while keeping the old one in place for now?
+
** Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
*** Issues: (1) Performance, (2) bugs due to delegating, (3) is it worth doing that work? CDT already marked x-friends - Debug could offer the same for other clients.
+
* Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
** McQ: Do we anticipate a huge Community out there just waiting for stuff to become full API? Then it's probably worth it...
+
* Dani: '''PPC''' - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week
*** But at this point any potential consumers already consume, so it's likely not worth the pain of renaming
+
*** Dani's suggestion: Go into a separate bundle and re-export, such that clients don't need debug
+
** John: Unless packages were intended to be API from the beginning, it's likely not API quality (that's likely also why Boris didn't want it in Jface)
+
** Martin: Would really want to see namespace refactored... quality standards..
+
** John: Had the experience in p2, it was much more than just package renaming
+
*** Very painful for user community, but in the end produced a much better results (but p2 was very young at that time)
+
** McQ: Can we provide backward compatible versions in parallel to the new namespace? We CANNOT break consumers.
+
*** Renaming only makes sense if mirroring/proxying is possible.
+
*** Lots of consumers in the old form, how many new consumers would we gain in the new form?
+
** Martin: Create a fork / clone on the UI side for new consumers, as real API?
+
*** McQ: Only makes sense if there's a community just waiting to pick this up.
+
*** Dani: Debug itself could not move to the new framework without breaking clients ... so we'd not have any clients inside the SDK
+
** McQ: It's non-trivial work, and before starting it we'd need to verify there's consumers for it
+
** Learnings from the past: Not keep stuff in provisional for so long any more
+
** Resolution: '''Pawel to find consumers for a refactored new bundle, then decide if / how to do the work'''
+
* Dani: '''Java 7 - Segfault due to loop optimizations''' ([http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/08/java7-hotspot details])
+
** Occurs a lot inside Apache Lucene, how to communicate that?
+
** McQ: send to eclipse-dev and cross-project
+
** Oracle aware of the issue - working on an early refresh, workaround exists (disable loop optimizations via -XX:-UseLoopPredicate)
+
** Another JIT bug was fixed by Oracle before GA because we reported it
+
** AI Dani '''Talk to Oracle when an update can be expected, soon send a message to eclipse-dev / cross-project'''
+
* Vacation notices:
+
** Martin: away from August 14 to September 1
+
** McQ: away from August 22 to September 5
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 3, 2011:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
+
'''Mar 28, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
* Dani - successfully moved Java 7 support to 3.7.1, 3.8, 4.1.1 and 4.2 streams
+
* Replacement for Sergey
 
+
** let's wait and see how things go
 +
** next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
 +
* Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
 +
** all agree
 +
** McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
 +
* Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
 +
* Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 27, 2011:''' - Dani, John, McQ
+
'''Mar 21, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
* Discussed how many versions back PDE should support development on. Historically we used N-2 but currently it is N-7. The layers of compatibility are starting to become hard to manage. We agreed dropping support for versions prior to 3.6 is ok if there is a benefit in doing so (cleans up PDE, makes the situation less confusing for end user, etc). However PDE must handle existing plugins with old version numbers in the plugin.xml (possibly with a warning and a quick fix to update/remove the number).
+
* Dani: '''Dirk Fauth''' [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02891.html Requests on eclipse-pmc]
* We have some rough days ahead: first release train milestone on 4.x, ongoing build pain from Git migration, merge of Java 7 into mainline, and lots of people on holidays. Hold onto your hats!
+
** Alex agrees with Dani
 
+
** Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
 +
** Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
 +
* Dani: '''Szymon Ptasiewicz'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 20, 2011:''' - Dani, Martin, John, Jeff
+
'''Mar 14, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
* Dani - '''p2 Installer {{bug|317785}}''' affects Java 7 users - when they want to update it looks like they are dead
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 readiness''' - see [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev cross-project-issues-dev]
** Regression test only fails once every 100 times .. might be more often in the wild
+
** Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
** Might need some note on the download page (clickthrough) - people dont read the readme
+
*** Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
* John - '''git migration''' - parts from git / parts from CVS isn't that bad for now
+
** Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the [[Java 9 Readiness]] wiki can show violations
 
+
*** Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
 +
*** Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
 +
** Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
 +
** All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
 +
*** This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
 +
** Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
 +
* Dani: '''JUnit 5''' considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
 +
** Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
 +
* Dani: '''2 Platform Issues in M6'''
 +
** platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
 +
** major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
 +
*** In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
 +
*** In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
 +
* Alex: '''Generic Editor and Testing'''
 +
** Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
 +
** Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
 +
** Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
 +
** In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 13, 2011:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
+
'''Mar 7, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars
* Want more Community involvement in the Eclipse PMC - "outside representation" in addition to companies with a commercial interest
+
* Dani: '''4.6.3 Updates''' - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
* nice Java 7 webcast last week - Mike Milinkovich mentions our Eclipse Java 7 Support (BETA)
+
* Dani: '''4.7M7 Update''' - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
 +
* Dani: '''Java 9 / Planning Council Update''' - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
 +
** See the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/ eclipse.org-planning-council archives]
 +
* Lars: '''Platform.Resources Leadership''' after Sergey Leaving
 +
** Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
 +
** Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
 +
** Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
 +
** Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
 +
** Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 6, 2011:''' - John, Dani, Martin
+
'''Feb 28, 2017''' - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ
* Dani - on track with Java 7 work; Oracle interested in having good Eclipse support
+
* Alex: '''Short update on Neon.3'''
* git migration - Platform UI likely going to move this week
+
** 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
** Paul has a tool for gathering build notes from git (currently a commandline script)
+
** PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
 
+
* Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
<hr id="20110615"/>
+
* Martin: '''RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing'''
'''June 15, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Jeff
+
** Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
* John - '''git migration''': should egit be part of the SDK ?
+
** Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
** Build-time circular dependencies. Keep SDK small, but make it a very simple and obvious step to obtain egit.
+
** Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
** It's already easy to update - milestone to mileston SDK update is a single step for SDK + egit.
+
** '''AI Martin''' will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like {{bug|505826}} resolved ideally
* John - '''git migration''' and the mapfiles
+
* McQ will be out next 2 weeks
** In orion, just tag HEAD of the build branch
+
** Dani: need to make sure that build notes can still be created
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 1, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani
+
'''Feb 21, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey
* Some discussion of proposed Eclipse Foundation security policy
+
* Lars: {{Bug|512273}} Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and {{Bug|512319}} allow rebase
* We still want to see the disclosure time-frame being 3 months after the release containing the fix. Not all of our consumer community has the build technology or expertise to apply source patches to their products. Making sure the fix is in a maintenance release is the only practical way for some people to consume fixes
+
** '''Agreement''' to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
* It would be nice for critical security fixes to appear in the simultaneous release repository even after the SR2 time period. p2 would need some small amount of work to be able to flag critical/security patches and automatically notify the user about them being available. Nobody has signed up to do this work.
+
** Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
* Some discussion of Git migration. There is no need to move everything at once since our build can handle homogeneous inputs from both CVS and Git. One possibility is migrating Equinox as a first step. The most complicated piece is migrating the repository containing the builder itself. We will need to decide on where map files and documentation go: likely some kind of "common" repository for Eclipse TLP.
+
** '''AI Lars''' follow up on the bug
 +
* Martin: '''UI Testing'''
 +
** [http://eclipse.org/rcptt RCPTT] is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
 +
** Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
 +
** When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
 +
** Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
 +
** Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
 +
*** Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
 +
** '''AI Martin''' follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
 +
** '''AI Alex''' share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
 +
** '''AI Lars''' play with the Reddeer API
 +
* Dani: '''Update on PPC''' drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs {{bug|512224}}
 +
** Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm '''AI Alex and Dani''' ask Denis
 +
* Dani: '''Neon.3 RC3''' please keep an eye on builds
 +
* Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 25, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
'''Feb 15, 2017'''
* Missing CQ's for old legacy stuff in old update sites / repos
+
** No problem for ZIP's (we can move to archive)
+
** OK with removing some legacy old stuff... How many years back to keep old stuff?
+
* Java 7 and 3.7.1
+
** Mike M OK with including in 3.7.1 (when it's stable enough)
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 4, 2011:''' - Jeff, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''Feb 8, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
 
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|509412}}''' - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
* RC1 test pass went well overall
+
** Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
* Investigating an SWT blocker preventing checkbox tables from working
+
** Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
* There is a problem with the Ant mail task with Ant 1.8. Ant mail requires an optional extra jar to be added. In Ant 1.7 this didn't cause build to fail, but in Ant 1.8 it does. Our conclusion was to document in the migration guide but take no other action.
+
** Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
* Git migration:
+
** Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
** Kim and DJ are investigating migration of the build to Git. Making progress but don't have a full build working yet
+
* Dani: '''Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform'''
** We should consider summer 2011 for migration. For those teams with forked code between 3.x/4.x, they are finding it difficult to keep fixes in sync and potentially git can help with that.
+
** Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
 +
** Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
 +
* Dani: '''Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server'''
 +
** Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
 +
* Dani: '''Scenarios for UI Testing'''
 +
** Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
 +
* Dani: '''Sign Up for Security Rep'''
 +
** See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/tools-pmc/msg03927.html Wayne's message to PMCs] requesting PMC attendance
 +
** John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
 +
** Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
 +
** '''RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up''' since already following security issues
 +
* Dani+Alex: '''libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC'''
 +
** Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
 +
** Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
 +
** Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
 +
** Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
 +
** Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
 +
** If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
 +
** '''AI Dani+McQ''' find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
 +
* Alex: '''Update on Reddeer Testing Framework'''
 +
** A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
 +
** Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
 +
** Martin has been looking at [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT] which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
 +
** (call had to be closed at this point)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 27, 2011:''' - Jeff, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
<strike>Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled</strike>
* Dani '''still 100 bugs tagged 3.7''' - need to remind in the archcall to properly tag target milestones
+
* John '''EDL for Examples'''
+
** Value of examples is they're there to be used - there's no business value in holding on to IP via Copyright so EDL seems right
+
** Re-licensing existing examples is difficult (eg SWT examples); but new examples should go under EDL
+
** Including examples in distributed features must take care of fixing abouts
+
* John '''3.7 plan final update''': all plan items committed or deferred; update to RH6
+
 
+
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 20, 2011:''' - Jeff, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
 
* Jeff,Martin '''Builds at Eclipse''' - Work ongoing. IBM Mac has been donated. Mac testing has problems with some weird vnc bug
 
** Martin - could kick a 3.6.2+ build and artifacts OK, but confused by lots of warning messages. Kim responded immediately, but can this be made "more official" ?
 
** Public Builds - get the engineering underpinnings in place, then polish afterwards
 
** Won't get a lot better in 3.7 but could make it a plan item for 3.8
 
** John agrees that improving the warning messages to be more informative is a good thing - Kim's very helpful
 
* Dani '''Polish Bug to be prioritized''': {{bug|342648}} In SWT on Linux, RTL mode, Tree.getItem(Point) gives invalid result.
 
** Regression ?
 
** McQ: Every GTK version needs work - maybe it's specific to a new GTK; might be more than a P2
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''Jan 24, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
'''April 13, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani, Jeff
+
* Dani: '''New Jetty Version''' - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
* John: reminder to review proposed project charter update
+
* Dani: '''javax.xml''' - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
* Freeze plan for Indigo is ready
+
** Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
* Reviewed new polish items
+
* Alex: '''[http://jboss-reddeer.github.io/reddeer/ Reddeer Testing Framework]'''
* Investigating some 4.1 compatibility problems, possibly related to EMF changes
+
** JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
<hr/>
+
** Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
 +
*** Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
 +
*** API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
 +
** Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
 +
*** Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
 +
*** No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
 +
** Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT], it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
 +
** Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
 +
*** Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
 +
** Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
 +
** Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --&gt; Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
 +
*** Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
 +
*** '''AI Alex''' to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' to try installing Jubula until next week
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.
  
'''March 30, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani
+
<hr>
* Discussed and clarified the API approval guidelines. Will be announced in the arch call.
+
'''Jan 17, 2017''' - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ
* Dani - Java 7 deferred from 3.7. GA planned together with 3.7.1.
+
* Sergey: '''Merging platform.resources with platform.ui'''
** John: is feature work which might need review
+
** Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
* John - we need to prepare the Git migration
+
*** Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
** John to ask DJ to do investigations
+
** Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
<hr/>
+
** Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
 +
** Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
 +
*** McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
 +
** Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
 +
** Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even {{bug|509412}} was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
 +
** Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
 +
** McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
 +
* Lars: '''Removing javax.xml'''
 +
** Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
 +
** Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
 +
** Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
 +
** McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
 +
** Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
 +
**'''AI Lars''' send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
 +
* Dani: '''Project Updates'''
 +
** Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
 +
* McQ: '''UI Testing and Jubula'''
  
'''March 23, 2011:''' - McQ, Dani
 
* Prioritized the [[Polish3.7]] list. This is a recurring task for the next few weeks.
 
* Discussed and agreed on API change approval process, see [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg01368.html PMC mailing list note].
 
<hr/>
 
 
'''March 9, 2011:''' - John, McQ
 
 
* Ongoing discussion of direction for 2012 release train. Will continue discussion in email to ensure all PMC members are involved.
 
 
<hr/>
 
'''March 2, 2011:'''
 
* McQ - Migrating to 4.x. Don't be disruptive when there is no need to. Want to avoid migration pain.
 
** New feature work will be in 4.x, but as long as there are committers working on 3.x it will stay alive
 
** Make sure that quality keeps up: Releng / Build, make long-term committers continue reviewing contributions
 
** Problem with 4.x is just the bugs (impeding productivity), it's not anything architectural
 
** '''Convene again next week and come up with a consistent message''', AI McQ get hold of Jeff for a statement
 
* John - '''3.6.2+ builds''' set up on Hudson now
 
** Kim's {{bug|338557}} Job's mostly ready, Martin is the first tester. Should inform the Community once things go smoothly
 
** Updating version numbers like going to a virtual never-existing "3.6.3" release in order to give a clear and consistent message
 
** Dani has an (internal) document - Martin: interested for TM and CDT projects - '''AI Dani''' send Doc to Martin for for meeting notes
 
** Always updating the micro by one only ... so if bundle was not updated in Helios SR1 or SR2, it should go .1 in 3.6.2+
 
 
'''February 23, 2011:'''
 
* Martin - '''3.6.2+ M-Builds post 3.6.2''' - needed for adopters to get 3.6.2+ bundles signed; on demand only? If scheduled, how often?
 
 
<hr/>
 
'''February 16, 2011:'''
 
 
<hr/>
 
'''February 9, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
 
* Dani - '''Builder bug''':  Theoretically, the builder bug can cause bad binaries shipped from Eclipse.org
 
** But switching the builder now could have other consequences. Most people likely use the 3.6.0 or 3.6.1 builder
 
** Platform uses the 3.6.1 builder. Bug appeared in 3.6.0
 
** McQ thinks we should recommend using the new builder - John: can never know whether a problematic code construct is there or not
 
** Provide a patched version of the 3.6.1 basebuilder as an option for people to use - '''AI John''' ask Kim to re-produce a new basebuilder, then respin RC4
 
* McQ - '''Builds at Eclipse.org'''
 
** IBM Ottawa consolidating 7 offices into 2, plan to not have a build lab
 
** Kim still frustrated with Foundation facilities; McQ talked to people both inside IBM and the Foundation
 
 
 
<hr/>
 
'''February 2, 2011:''' - Canceled (no topics)
 
<hr/>
 
 
'''January 26, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Martin,
 
* Dani: {{bug|330534}} '''ObjectTeams Contribution''' - JDT might allow using their namespace as an exception, couple p2 bugs pending
 
** If the p2 solution cannot be done, OT/J will need to remain off the train
 
* Martin: Concerned about '''Eclipse 3.x quality''', many regressions and not being addressed
 
** {{bug|320329}} ThreadJob#waitForRun can spin when blockingJob is not RUNNING
 
*** '''Platform Runtime: Regression''' introduced in 3.6, can have severe Performance impact, reported 10-Jul, commenters unsure about approach to fix
 
*** A buggy contribution was accepted, and then the contributor left
 
*** John spent a lot of time.. there was a fix that didn't work
 
*** Dani: Could the contribution be pulled out? - No because it's new API (yield())
 
*** Contributor was quite good originally but then just switched teams and was no longer available
 
*** The new testcase from Markus Schorn might help narrowing down the case quickly
 
** {{bug|335153}} Regression: p2 downloads are much slower due to picking remote artifacts even when a local file: URL is available
 
*** '''p2: Regression''' introduced in 3.6, reported 24-Jan, testcase + patch attached, response pending
 
** {{bug|332840}} Wrong error about API change (Regression; works with 3.7M3)
 
*** '''API Tooling: Regression''' introduced in 3.7M4, reported 17-Dec, Olivier:  "I'll take a look" but no response since
 
** {{bug|332838}} Bogus potential null pointer access warning (regression; works with 3.6)
 
*** '''JDT: Regression''' introduced in 3.7M4, reported 17-Dec, Ayushman: "I'll investigate" but no response since
 
** {{bug|332507}} [regression] incomplete build path reported on o.e.rse.subsystem.shells.local
 
*** '''PDE UI: Regression''' introduced in 3.7M4, reported 14-Dec, initial traffic but no followup since 16-Dec
 
** {{bug|335466}} Regression: category.xml processing fails when "name" contains special chars
 
*** Just detected recently
 
** {{bug|313899}} [Progress] Every user-job causes a busy cursor to be shown for a minimum of 250ms
 
*** '''Platform UI''': Patch provided on 21-May, no response whatsoever from Platform UI
 
** John: There had been a fair bit of turnover, new committers getting up to speed ... having less experienced people is a fact
 
*** Identifying key bugs in the big bug database takes a lot of experience
 
** Dani: M5 is the Major feature freeze, so new feature / API work has highest priority ... so quality drop is somewhat expected in M5
 
** Even for regressions... if the regression is less critical than new bugs, it goes behind
 
** '''RESOLUTION:''' Make the important bugs visible to the component leads or PMC. It's natural that we sometimes need to ping on a bug. M5 is a problematic time.
 
* John: {{bug|335374}} '''Redhat 6 as a Reference Platform'''
 
** SWT team doing some final testing, then will put only RH6 on the Ref Platform list
 
* John: '''OpenJDK as a Reference Platform''' - Oracle is interested and might contribute testing
 
 
<hr/>
 
''' January 19, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Jeff, Dani, Martin
 
* Jeff will be unavailable for meeting next 6-7 weeks
 
* John: How do we interpret "under the direction of the PMC" in [http://www.eclipse.org/legal/EclipseLegalProcessPoster.pdf Eclipse legal process]?
 
** McQ: Not about approval, but about PMC being aware
 
** Jeff: Goal is to indicate "Working with an Eclipse mindset", ie in close collaboration with a committer ... contributor must be aware of IP due diligence guidelines from the beginning of evolution of the code. We want to avoid introducing IP leaks by accepting legacy code that was written before assuming an Eclipse mindset.
 
** McQ: This is about understanding the direction of Eclipse as a whole. Request a PMC +1 on the bug as work is being started. PMC should work with committer to ensure that contributor has been instructed about IP rules.
 
 
<hr/>
 
''' January 12, 2011:''' -
 
 
<hr/>
 
''' January 5, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Jeff, Martin
 
* Dani: Component Lead progress? - Portal still doesn't have the correct list of components
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''Jan 10, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck
 +
* Dani: '''Platform Bits on Maven Central''' - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
 +
* Dani: '''Board Committer Rep Elections''' opening
 +
* Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
 +
* Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
 +
* Lars: '''Equinox move to Platform''' - no updates - '''AI Dani''' talk to Tom again
 +
* McQ / AlexS: '''Jubula'''
 +
** In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
 +
** Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
 +
** Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
 +
** AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
 +
*** For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
 +
*** Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
 +
*** UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
 +
*** Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
 +
*** Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
 +
*** Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure ('''AI AlexS to check''')
 +
*** Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
 +
**** Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' send slides
 +
*** '''AI Dani + Lars''' propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Revision as of 13:12, 19 July 2017

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

July 18, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • project merge review awaiting go from Wayne - Dani pinged again in the bug report
  • Dani will kick off planning for Photon a bit earlier since he will be in Bangalore the next 12 days. Platform UI already started.
  • M1 on August 11

July 11, 2017 - no meeting


July 4, 2017 - no meeting


June 27, 2017 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Equinox Merge to the Eclipse TLP
    • Keep Equinox as a separate Project, to allow independent Equinox releases without Platform (and keep Bugzilla simple)
    • The only argument for stronger integration would be getting more committers, but there is no strong need and we have the FastTrack process in place for that
  • Eclipse Merge of Component (Sub)Projects into Platform
    • Just 4 Projects: Platform, Equinox, JDT, PDE (plus the incubators for e4 and JDT)
    • Former (Sub)Project Leads to become "Component Leads", "Technology Owners" or "Repository Owners"
      • Repository Ownership is appealing as the structure is very clear (+1 Dani,Alex,McQ)
    • Platform Lead initially Dani, more Co-Leads could step up if they want
      • Main work is helping component leads if they can't come to a consensus - usually less work than PMC duties
  • Dani: JSR 376 Ballot
    • Public review reconsideration ballot got approved by all except Red Hat who abstained
    • Much progress in the past weeks, consensus except RH abstained
    • Looks like the OOBE of Java9 would tolerate reflection, currently looks like on track for a September Release
  • Vacations many people will be off next week, especially in the U.S.
    • PMC call will be skipped next week

June 20, 2017 - MQ, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Attracting new contributors discussions - code cleanup and deletion of old paths needed
    • Alex: Big issue to get people working on codebase and considering many now irrelevant paths in the codebase
    • Dani: Cleanups should be done by the one starting them through the whole SDK
    • Lars: Not feasible as some projects are slower pace moving and the change might require more effort than one can or is willing to spend in his free time
    • Alex: Great opportunity to have new people joining by doing simple tasks and grow them into full committers
    • McQ: We have to come up with list of items we would like to get cleaned and properly follow our deprecation policy even if the migration guide for Photon get really big with things we schedule for removal in the future.
  • Dani: Sub-projects merge
    • Name of the new project - McQ: Everyone refers to it as Platform so natural choice it is
    • JDT, PDE, Platform (subprojects) to become single project
    • Person responsible for some code area in the merged project - to be further dicussed
  • Dani: Dropping Xulrunner support - PMC to approve it in the bug


Juni 13, 2017 - MQ, Dani, Lars

  • Dani: Release review for 4.7 was successful
  • Dani: Rebuild for 4.7RCa required due to new EMF version and a fix for a critical bug which resulted in duplicated menu entries
  • Merge of the sub-projects
    • Planned for M1, desired to be coordinated with the move of Equinox to Platform
    • We prefer to keep the project pages and wikis so that all the information is kept
    • Preferable we want to have one committer list for Eclipse platform
    • Dani to check with foundation how the merge can be done

May 30, 2017 - Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Dani: Please approve or disapprove the release review
  • Dani: Starting the Debugger doesn't work always
    • Occurs for Lars, but isn't reproducible - one of the top 3 things to fix if steps to reproduce are found
    • Lars: Equinox replaced the DS implementation in 4.7, the issue is probably related
    • Failure is totally random: On a very slow Virtual Machine, it failed almost always (9 failures out of 10); on other machine it works most of the time; even after working fine 3 times, it may fail the 4th time; seems to occur more frequently on older machines than newer ones.
    • Martin: try with a reverse debugger like Chronon ?
      • Should help by just collecting a log; and when the failure occurs, "play back" the log to understand under what condition the race condition occurs; the a reproducible case is available, and the log can also be sent around between different developers for investigation, potentiall also to Apache Felix upstream
  • Dani: Equinox Launcher Issues
    • During M7, a change was made to ignore certain command-line arguments
    • This caused 2 regressions - bug 517013 and bug 516349 MacOSX restart regression
    • Java 9 will probably change the parameters again, see bug 516911 :(
    • It's getting too late to make any more changes to the Launcher. Re-compiling on different hardware has already caused bug 517013, it's possible that more issues (not yet known) might be caused by the rebuild. With Java 9 probably changing again, we don't win much by rebuilding to try and align with something that's not yet released.
      • Option A: Put options into the eclipse.ini -- today it works for both Java 8 and Java 9
      • Option B: Add the "probably proposed" new option to the launcher, will need to rebuild the launcher again
      • Option C: Revert the launcher to what it was before (and well tested) back to M6 - for running with Java 9, the options have to be added manually
    • Users will have to read on a webpage what needs to be done for Java 9 launching; for Eclipse SDK, a single option is needed - some add-on components
      • Additional complexity: Different JVMs need different options (IBM, Oracle...)
      • Martin: bug 517452 Introduce a fallback mechanism to the launcher, which reads the Java ID and loads 'eclipse-javaID.ini' with a fallback to 'eclipse.ini', but does not seem reasonable for Oxygen since too late
      • Better to have a clean story: At IBM, the entire build environment changed ... reverting gets us back to a bullet-proof launcher that was tested for 7 milestones ... will work safely with Java 8, for Java 9 people will have to read the N&N or StackOverflow to find out about the right arguments - same as in Neon
  • AGREEMENT to revert the Launcher to the M6 version

May 23, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: Apache Batik XXE Vulnerability
    • Alex: Moving to Batik 1.9 would be good, but there is so much UI breakage that it's not viable for Oxygen
  • Martin: Bugs discovered during RC test cycle
    • Surprised that some low-priority issues do get attention (bug 517108) while others get no response at all (bug 517013
    • Dani: Only interested in severe issues and regressions - send message to platform-releng-dev with severe regressions found
    • Dani: Please +1 the Gerrit for bug 517108

May 16, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
    • Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
  • bug 509922 Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
    • Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
    • Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
  • Test failures: Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
    • Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
    • CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
    • UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
  • bug 516114 Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
    • Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
    • The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
    • That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
    • Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
      • The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
    • AGREEMENT: In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
      • Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
      • McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
  • Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
  • Alex: Project Structure
    • Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
    • Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
    • In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
    • Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
    • McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
    • Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
    • AGREEMENT to move forward on this, with a Platform Leadership group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.

May 9, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: JSR376 Jigsaw: 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
    • From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
    • JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
    • For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
    • JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
  • Dani: M7/RC0 - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
    • When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
      1. Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
      2. Section forms layout
  • Dani: httpcore 4.4.1 -> 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility
    • Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
    • People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
    • Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
    • Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
    • Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
    • AGREEMENT to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
  • Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
  • Dani: Release Review, does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
    • All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
    • McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
    • Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
    • Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
    • AGREEMENT to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.

May 2, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Lars: Regex Evaluator Plugin
    • Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
    • Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
    • McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
    • AGREEMENT to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
  • Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
  • Dani: JSR Jigsaw Ballot
    • Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard

Apr 25, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Neon.3a
    • Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
      • AI Alex tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
      • Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem

Apr 18, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Dani: RH and Java9 Jigsaw
    • Very good write-up linked from the AC Mailinglist - see also follow-up
    • Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
  • Dani: Neon.3 Respin
    • Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
  • Lars: Glance Migration to e4 and/or Platform
    • e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
  • Lars
    • JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache

Apr 11, 2017 - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
  • Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.

Apr 04, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Martin: bug 514257 and cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue
    • Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
    • Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
    • Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
      • Commons Logging is not a Singleton
    • Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
  • Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
  • Dani: PPC - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week

Mar 28, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Replacement for Sergey
    • let's wait and see how things go
    • next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
  • Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
    • all agree
    • McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
  • Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
  • Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)

Mar 21, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Dirk Fauth Requests on eclipse-pmc
    • Alex agrees with Dani
    • Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
    • Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
  • Dani: Szymon Ptasiewicz

Mar 14, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Java 9 readiness - see cross-project-issues-dev
    • Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
      • Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
    • Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the Java 9 Readiness wiki can show violations
      • Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
      • Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
    • Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
    • All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
      • This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
    • Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
  • Dani: JUnit 5 considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
    • Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
  • Dani: 2 Platform Issues in M6
    • platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
    • major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
      • In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
      • In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
  • Alex: Generic Editor and Testing
    • Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
    • Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
    • Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
    • In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"

Mar 7, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars

  • Dani: 4.6.3 Updates - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
  • Dani: 4.7M7 Update - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
  • Dani: Java 9 / Planning Council Update - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
  • Lars: Platform.Resources Leadership after Sergey Leaving
    • Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
    • Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
    • Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
    • Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
    • Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept

Feb 28, 2017 - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Alex: Short update on Neon.3
    • 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
    • PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
  • Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
  • Martin: RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing
    • Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
    • Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
    • Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
    • AI Martin will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like bug 505826 resolved ideally
  • McQ will be out next 2 weeks

Feb 21, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey

  • Lars: bug 512273 Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and bug 512319 allow rebase
    • Agreement to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
    • Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
    • AI Lars follow up on the bug
  • Martin: UI Testing
    • RCPTT is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
    • Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
    • When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
    • Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
    • Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
      • Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
    • AI Martin follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
    • AI Alex share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
    • AI Lars play with the Reddeer API
  • Dani: Update on PPC drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs bug 512224
    • Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm AI Alex and Dani ask Denis
  • Dani: Neon.3 RC3 please keep an eye on builds
  • Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week

Feb 15, 2017


Feb 8, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: bug 509412 - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
    • Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
    • Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
    • Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
    • Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
  • Dani: Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform
    • Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
    • Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
  • Dani: Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server
    • Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
  • Dani: Scenarios for UI Testing
    • Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
  • Dani: Sign Up for Security Rep
    • See Wayne's message to PMCs requesting PMC attendance
    • John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
    • Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
    • RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up since already following security issues
  • Dani+Alex: libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC
    • Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
    • Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
    • Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
    • Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
    • Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
    • If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
    • AI Dani+McQ find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
  • Alex: Update on Reddeer Testing Framework
    • A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
    • Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
    • Martin has been looking at RCPTT which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
    • (call had to be closed at this point)

Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled


Jan 24, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: New Jetty Version - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
  • Dani: javax.xml - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
    • Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
  • Alex: Reddeer Testing Framework
    • JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
    • Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
      • Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
      • API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
    • Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
      • Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
      • No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
    • Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about RCPTT, it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
    • Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
      • Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
    • Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
    • Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --> Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
      • Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
      • AI Alex to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
      • AI Martin to try installing Jubula until next week
      • AI Martin ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.

Jan 17, 2017 - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ

  • Sergey: Merging platform.resources with platform.ui
    • Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
      • Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
    • Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
    • Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
    • Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
      • McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
    • Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
    • Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even bug 509412 was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
    • Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
    • McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
  • Lars: Removing javax.xml
    • Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
    • Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
    • Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
    • McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
    • Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
    • AI Lars send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
  • Dani: Project Updates
    • Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
  • McQ: UI Testing and Jubula

Jan 10, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck

  • Dani: Platform Bits on Maven Central - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
  • Dani: Board Committer Rep Elections opening
  • Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
  • Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
  • Lars: Equinox move to Platform - no updates - AI Dani talk to Tom again
  • McQ / AlexS: Jubula
    • In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
    • Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
    • Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
    • AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
      • For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
      • Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
      • UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
      • Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
      • Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
      • Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure (AI AlexS to check)
      • Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
        • Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
      • AI AlexS send slides
      • AI Dani + Lars propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
      • AI AlexS check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started

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