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= Documents =
 
= Documents =
 
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
  
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= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
  
'''Aug 16, 2016''' - Dani
+
'''May 16, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars
* Topics from Lars
+
* Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
** Spy migration to PDE
+
** Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
** p2 has lots pending patches, maybe Thomas should send out a call for help?
+
* {{bug|509922}} Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
<hr/>
+
** Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
 +
** Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
 +
* '''Test failures:''' Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
 +
** Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
 +
** CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
 +
** UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
 +
* {{bug|516114}} Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
 +
** Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
 +
** The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
 +
** That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
 +
** Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
 +
*** The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
 +
** '''AGREEMENT:''' In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
 +
*** Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
 +
*** McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
 +
* Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
 +
* Alex: '''Project Structure'''
 +
** Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
 +
** Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
 +
** In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
 +
** Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
 +
** McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
 +
** Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move forward on this, with a ''Platform Leadership'' group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.
  
 
'''Aug 09, 2016''' - Dani
 
* no one joined - had private conversation with McQ later
 
** '''guys, please announce when you can't join. I can make better use of my time than waiting for you in the call ;-) - thanks.'''
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 
+
'''May 9, 2017''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ
'''Aug 02, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
+
* Dani: '''JSR376 Jigsaw''': 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
* Dani: New [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_7_draft.xml Oxygen Plan Format]
+
** From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
** '''AI Dani''' ask Denis about aggregating the Sub Wiki's into the master page
+
** JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
* Alex: SWT Fragments for ARM64 etc
+
** For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
** Tycho doesn't support auto-selecting fragments - in contact with Jan and Tobias
+
** JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
** Dani: Would like to revert changes - don't want to punish people who are not interested in fragments
+
* Dani: '''M7/RC0''' - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
** Not really an SWT problem, so editing .target files would be a clean solution
+
** When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
** Will probably go with empty (dummy) fragments without natives, as that's the simplest solution
+
**# Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
* Dani: SWT team - Lakshmi going to Sweden, will not be available until end 2016
+
**# Section forms layout
** Arun is mostly back, Sravan is now on Releng
+
* Dani: '''httpcore 4.4.1 -&gt; 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility'''
** Need to push further on building at the Foundation!!
+
** Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
** Alex: Getting CentOS for building ... but test machines are on SLES11, which is too old, will need at least SLES12
+
** People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
*** Dani: Will need an owner at the Eclipse Foundation to ensure this proceeds ! Alex agreed to further drive this.
+
** Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
* Target Env: Dropping REL6 -- reference platform for testing will only be REL7 (though will continue to run on REL6)
+
** Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
** Reducing support level this year, in order to prepare for only supporting GTK3 next year
+
** Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
 +
* Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
 +
* Dani: '''Release Review''', does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
 +
** All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
 +
** McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
 +
** Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
 +
** Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 
+
'''May 2, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
'''July 26, 2016''' - no meeting
+
* Lars: '''Regex Evaluator Plugin'''
 
+
** Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
'''July 19, 2016''' - no meeting
+
** Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
 +
** McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
 +
* Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
 +
* Dani: '''JSR Jigsaw Ballot'''
 +
** Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 12, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Alex
+
'''Apr 25, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
* Dani: Hackathon summary
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3a'''
 +
** Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
 +
*** '''AI Alex''' tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
 +
*** Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 5, 2016''' - Lars, McQ, Alex, Dani, Martin
+
'''Apr 18, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
* Lars: SWT move to Java 8
+
* Dani: '''RH and Java9 Jigsaw'''
* Alex: Initial builds of GTK 2.24 for AIX - planning to bump minimum GTK version to 2.24
+
** Very good write-up linked from the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03385.html AC Mailinglist] - see also [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03389.html follow-up]
** Will remove non-cairo drawing, this is where most of the breakage happens
+
** Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
** Ubuntu 12.04: 2.24.10 / 3.4.5
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3 Respin'''
** RHEL 6: 2.24.23-6
+
** Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
** AIX, HP-UX, Solaris ? -- Oxygen will only focus on Linux, Windows, Mac
+
* Lars: '''[https://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/glance#group-details Glance] Migration''' to e4 and/or Platform
** Secondary Platforms: Not built on EF Hardware, but interested parties can contribute binaries
+
** e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
** Trying to support Platforms which can't move up to modern GTK at a similar pace as Linux is hard
+
* Lars
** '''AI Alex''' write up a message to the Community
+
** JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache
* Lars: {{bug|486961}} extending the Eclipse Text Editor
+
** Dani: Text Editor must remain unchanged, but feel free to provide a new different code editor
+
** https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=496114#c7
+
** Not against adding extension points ... but having the standard text editor adopt those is a no-go
+
* Dani: Build, and Hackathon
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 28, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Alex
+
'''Apr 11, 2017''' - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani
* Discussion about Language Server Protocol
+
* Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
** MS sponsoring hackathon in Zurich, Dani expected to go there
+
** There will be a special drop for Java 9 in July, but it has not yet been decided whether it will be a release where users automatically get the update, or a special p2 repository or Marketplace entry where the update can be done on demand.
** The protocol has an Open Source license, but there is no Open Source Governance ... who owns the specification?
+
** Issues with Neon.3. A respin might be necessary. For details see https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/msg02741.html.
 +
* Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 21, 2016''' -  
+
'''Apr 04, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
*  
+
* Martin: {{bug|514257}} and [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev/msg14316.html cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue]
 +
** Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
 +
** Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
 +
** Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
 +
*** Commons Logging is not a Singleton
 +
** Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
 +
* Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
 +
* Dani: '''PPC''' - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 14, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars
+
'''Mar 28, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
* McQ: '''Mattermost / Slack''' for communication
+
* Replacement for Sergey
** not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
+
** let's wait and see how things go
* Lars: '''Master is Open'''
+
** next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
** Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
+
* Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
** Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
+
** all agree
** Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes ({{bug|360703}}) is open to improve that)
+
** McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
** We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
+
* Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
* Lars: '''Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ?''' - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
+
* Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)
* McQ: '''Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che''' (from [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ide-dev/ ide-dev] mailing list and {{bug|496114}})
+
** The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
+
** The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
+
*** People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
+
** The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
+
** How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
+
*** At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
+
*** But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
+
* Dani: '''What goes into the Neon Update Releases'''
+
** as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
+
** '''AI: Dani''' will prepare a note
+
* Dani: '''Using Sound in Eclipse'''
+
** Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see {{bug|496003}})
+
** Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
+
** Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
+
** McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so '''that''' should really be leveraged
+
** Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
+
** Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
+
** Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.
+
 
+
'''June 7, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex
+
* no topics
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 31, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex
+
'''Mar 21, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
* Dani: '''IP Log'''
+
* Dani: '''Dirk Fauth''' [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02891.html Requests on eclipse-pmc]
** The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
+
** Alex agrees with Dani
** In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
+
** Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
* Dani: '''Release Review'''
+
** Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
** Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
+
* Dani: '''Szymon Ptasiewicz'''
* Dani: '''Update Jetty to 3.9.3'''
+
** Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
+
* Dani: '''RC4 Status Update'''
+
** Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 24, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin
+
'''Mar 14, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
* Dani: '''IP Log Generator''' - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 readiness''' - see [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev cross-project-issues-dev]
* Dani: '''Release Review''' - Deadline next week (June 2)
+
** Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
* Dani: '''Deprecation Request from Brian'''
+
*** Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
** Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
+
** Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the [[Java 9 Readiness]] wiki can show violations
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date'''
+
*** Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
** '''AGREEMENT''' to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
+
*** Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
** Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
+
** Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
** Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
+
** All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
** This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
+
*** This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
* Dani: '''Neon Status'''
+
** Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
** Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time
+
* Dani: '''JUnit 5''' considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
 +
** Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
 +
* Dani: '''2 Platform Issues in M6'''
 +
** platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
 +
** major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
 +
*** In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
 +
*** In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
 +
* Alex: '''Generic Editor and Testing'''
 +
** Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
 +
** Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
 +
** Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
 +
** In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 17, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
+
'''Mar 7, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars
* Dani: '''{{Bug|475184}} Neon Plan Update 2'''
+
* Dani: '''4.6.3 Updates''' - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
** Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
+
* Dani: '''4.7M7 Update''' - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
** SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 / Planning Council Update''' - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
*** Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
+
** See the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/ eclipse.org-planning-council archives]
**** Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
+
* Lars: '''Platform.Resources Leadership''' after Sergey Leaving
*** Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
+
** Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
** Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
+
** Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
** '''AI Dani''' to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
+
** Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date''' - EMO: To be decided per project
+
** Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
** IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
+
** Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept
** Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
+
*** gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
+
** Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
+
* Dani: '''Policy for Neon.Update Releases''' - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
+
** Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
+
** Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
+
** Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - '''decision''': discuss feature by feature at PMC
+
** Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
+
** In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
+
* Dani: '''Neon RC2 Builds Update'''
+
** Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
+
** Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
+
** GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
+
** Lars: {{bug|493477}} detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 10, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
+
'''Feb 28, 2017''' - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ
* Dani: '''Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases'''
+
* Alex: '''Short update on Neon.3'''
** Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
+
** 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
* Martin: '''RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2'''
+
** PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
** GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
+
* Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
*** Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
+
* Martin: '''RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing'''
** Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
+
** Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
*** Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
+
** Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
*** There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
+
** Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
*** Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
+
** '''AI Martin''' will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like {{bug|505826}} resolved ideally
** Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
+
* McQ will be out next 2 weeks
*** Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
+
*** Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 3, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
+
'''Feb 21, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey
* [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02598.html Brian's request on the PMC list]
+
* Lars: {{Bug|512273}} Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and {{Bug|512319}} allow rebase
** McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
+
** '''Agreement''' to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
** Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
+
** Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
** Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...
+
** '''AI Lars''' follow up on the bug
** McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
+
* Martin: '''UI Testing'''
** Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
+
** [http://eclipse.org/rcptt RCPTT] is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
** '''ACTION''' McQ to -1 and argue why.
+
** Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
 
+
** When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
* Alex: '''Update on Accessibility'''
+
** Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
** broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
+
** Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
** due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
+
*** Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
** Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
+
** '''AI Martin''' follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
*** and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
+
** '''AI Alex''' share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
** Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !
+
** '''AI Lars''' play with the Reddeer API
 +
* Dani: '''Update on PPC''' drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs {{bug|512224}}
 +
** Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm '''AI Alex and Dani''' ask Denis
 +
* Dani: '''Neon.3 RC3''' please keep an eye on builds
 +
* Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 26, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
'''Feb 15, 2017'''
* Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
+
* Alex: '''Accessibility''' - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
+
** Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
+
** McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
+
* Alex: '''Platform.ui generification of project'''
+
** Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
+
** McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
+
** Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
+
** Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
+
** '''ACTION Alex''' to prepare a message for review and then send that.
+
* Lars: '''Copyright discussion'''
+
** Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
+
** The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
+
* Dani: '''Update on FEEP'''
+
** Paul not reached out yet
+
** A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
+
* Dani: '''Update on M7'''
+
** Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
+
** Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full
+
 
+
<br/>
+
'''April 19, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)
+
* Dani: '''IP Stuff''' on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
+
* Dani: '''FEEP''' discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
+
** General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
+
** Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
+
** Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
+
* Dani: '''All PMC please review and +1 API requests''' when you find time
+
** McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
+
* '''Reviews vs. Features'''
+
** Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora
+
 
+
<br/>
+
'''April 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex
+
* Lars: '''Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement'''
+
** [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=485257#c13 bug 485257_c13] EMO: All information is in the git repos
+
** McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
+
** Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
+
** '''ACTION''' McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
+
 
+
* Lars: '''{{bug|490012}} Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE'''
+
** Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
+
** Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
+
** Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
+
** '''DECISION''' to get rid of the strict error per project.
+
 
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|475934}} API Change on model processing order'''
+
** Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
+
** McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
+
** McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
+
*** Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
+
*** Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
+
*** Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
+
** Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
+
** '''DECISION''' to allow making the change and announce widely.
+
 
+
* Dani: '''FEEP and EMO Hiring Update'''
+
** EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
+
** Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
+
** Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
+
 
+
* Dani: '''IDE-dev proposal'''
+
** People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
+
** Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
+
*** McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
+
*** OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
+
'''Feb 8, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|509412}}''' - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
** Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
+
** Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
** Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
+
** Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
** Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
+
** Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
* Dani: '''Solaris 32-bit'''
+
** Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
** Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
+
* Dani: '''Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform'''
** Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
+
** Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
*** Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
+
** Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
** McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
+
* Dani: '''Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server'''
* Dani: '''New Solstice Welcome'''
+
** Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
** Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
+
* Dani: '''Scenarios for UI Testing'''
** Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
+
** Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
** McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
+
* Dani: '''Sign Up for Security Rep'''
* Alex: '''FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)'''
+
** See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/tools-pmc/msg03927.html Wayne's message to PMCs] requesting PMC attendance
** "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
+
** John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
*** Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
+
** Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
*** It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
+
** '''RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up''' since already following security issues
*** McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
+
* Dani+Alex: '''libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC'''
** Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
+
** Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
*** '''AI Dani''' send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
+
** Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
*** '''AI Martin''' compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
+
** Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
** Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
+
** Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
** Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
+
** Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
*** McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
+
** If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
*** Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
+
** '''AI Dani+McQ''' find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
*** McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal '''Transparency''' on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
+
* Alex: '''Update on Reddeer Testing Framework'''
*** McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
+
** A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
**** Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: '''THIS''' is what the FEEP should have adressed !
+
** Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
** Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
+
** Martin has been looking at [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT] which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
** Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
+
** (call had to be closed at this point)
*** McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
+
** Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
+
* Lars '''Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy'''
+
** Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 29, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex
+
<strike>Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled</strike>
* Lars: '''PDE Build in Maintenance''' - Officially state this ?
+
** PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
+
** Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
+
** McQ: '''DECISION''' Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
+
* Lars: '''Integrate more projects into Platform UI?'''
+
** Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
+
** Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
+
** Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
+
** '''DECISION''' to not merge projects at this time.
+
* Lars: '''Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list'''
+
** McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
+
** Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
+
** Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. '''AI Dani''' notify mailing list.
+
* Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
+
** Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"
+
 
+
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 22, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
 
* Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
 
* Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
 
* Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
 
* Discussion about Che
 
** McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
 
** Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
 
** McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''Jan 24, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
'''March 15, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Dani: '''New Jetty Version''' - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
* Dani: '''Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)'''
+
* Dani: '''javax.xml''' - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
* Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
+
** Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
* McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
+
* Alex: '''[http://jboss-reddeer.github.io/reddeer/ Reddeer Testing Framework]'''
* Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
+
** JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
* Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
+
** Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
** Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
+
*** Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
** Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
+
*** API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
** Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
+
** Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
* VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
+
*** Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
** Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
+
*** No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
** Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)
+
** Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT], it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
 +
** Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
 +
*** Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
 +
** Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
 +
** Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --&gt; Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
 +
*** Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
 +
*** '''AI Alex''' to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' to try installing Jubula until next week
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.
  
'''March 8, 2016''' - No call
+
<hr>
 
+
'''Jan 17, 2017''' - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ
<hr/>
+
* Sergey: '''Merging platform.resources with platform.ui'''
'''March 1, 2016''' - Dani, Martin
+
** Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
* Dani OOO next week
+
*** Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
* Alex: '''{{bug|179924}} SSH-agent authentication''' 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
+
** Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
** Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
+
** Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
** Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
+
** Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
* EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.
+
*** McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
 
+
** Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
<hr/>
+
** Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even {{bug|509412}} was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
'''February 23, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex
+
** Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
* Dani: '''Mars.2 is on track'''
+
** McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
+
* Lars: '''Removing javax.xml'''
** EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
+
** Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
* Dani: '''Update on Welcome'''
+
** Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
** Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
+
** Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
* McQ: '''Scrollbars on Windows''' and their appearance
+
** McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
** Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
+
** Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
** Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
+
**'''AI Lars''' send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
** McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
+
* Dani: '''Project Updates'''
** Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
+
** Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
** Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
+
* McQ: '''UI Testing and Jubula'''
** Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''February 16, 2016''' - Alex, Dani, Martin
+
* no topics
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''February 9, 2016''' - Alex, McQ, Dani
+
* Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
+
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|466370}} Welcome Screen redesign
+
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|472614}} Smart Project Importer
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''February 2, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
* Dani: '''Foundation Hires''' - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
+
* Dani: '''Neon M5''' went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
+
* Dani: '''CQ Deadline''' on Feb.12 for Neon
+
* Dani: {{bug|486647}} for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
+
** With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
+
** Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
+
*** Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
+
*** We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
+
*** Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
+
** Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''January 26, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars
+
* Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
+
* Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
+
* Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''January 19, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
+
* Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
+
** Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
+
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''PDE Build''' - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
+
** Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement '''in the Platform'''
+
** Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
+
** Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
+
** Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
+
* Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
+
** Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
+
* SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
+
* Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
+
** Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
+
* Martin: '''Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?'''
+
** Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
+
** Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
+
*** Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
+
** Debian or SuSE should be OK;
+
** Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''January 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Dani: '''Upstaffing the PMC'''
+
** Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
+
* Dani: '''Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng''' - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
+
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''Remove PDE Build from our drops?'''
+
** Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
+
** McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
+
** Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
+
* Dani: {{bug|485257}} '''Copyright Policy Change''' - waiting on EMO/Legal input
+
* Alex: '''Updating SWT to Java7'''
+
* McQ: '''Travel for EclipseCon'''
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''January 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani
+
* Dani: '''PMC Membership'''
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''December 15, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
+
* No calls until Jan.5
+
* Looking for a new PMC member
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''December 8, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, John, Dani
+
* Discussed {{bug|483803}} regarding the BREE for org.eclipse.core.jobs.
+
** PMC decided to move it back to JavaSE-1.7 but keep databinding on JavaSE-1.8
+
* Dani: Reminder: {{bug|475185}} Plan Update 1 - Due with Neon M4 next week
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''December 1, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani
+
* McQ: The new 5-Dollar Raspberry Pi and Orion (Java server works just fine on the Pi2).
+
** Node server is a bit smaller but single-user and no git - nice for developing node apps though
+
* Dani: '''Mars.2 Endgame Plan sent'''
+
* Dani: {{bug|475185}} Plan Update 1 - Due with Neon M4 next week
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''November 25, 2015''' - McQ, Martin, Alex
+
* Alex: '''Bumping SWT to Java8'''
+
** Lars wants to use Lambdas {{bug|481195}}; Markus keller wants static helper methods;
+
** Stephan Herrmann - University Research for Thread safety through typed annotations
+
*** Are they ready to contribute? - Probably yes, needs to be clarified; having better dev support for Thread Safety will be a huge help
+
*** Dani: Thinks that going to Java8 feels a bit early for SWT, which is at the bottom of the technology stack ... would prefer 1 year later
+
*** John: Lambda support doesn't necessarily require SWT to be Java 8 itself (it could just be more lambda friendly)
+
**** Won't help with base listeners, but probably with mouse events and related .. follow up in the bugreport
+
**** Labdas are more than syntactic sugar, it's more efficient ... still there is more value in Thread safety annotations
+
*** McQ: Assumes there would be an extensive discussion on cross-project anyways ... but there is evidence now we could get value from doing this.
+
* Dani: '''Update on Move of platform.text'''
+
** Approval from IP, will soon move to platform.ui - will keep platform.text bugzilla.
+
* John: '''FEEP'''
+
** As discussed on the [[Architecture Council]]
+
* McQ: '''Platform Support'''
+
** Many Platforms are not really active - IBM keeps alive some of them, for example RHEL4
+
** Recent mailinglist asking for Mac 32bit, have we done enough on announcements ?
+
** '''Agreement''' there's no case for catering more to people who don't read announcements and follow the project. Having a mailinglist ask once in a while is OK.
+
** Dani: Planning Update for Neon / M4 - please comment on the bug.
+
*** John: Plan document is not really exhaustive on the oldest working Platform - RHEL4 surely won't work in Neon.
+
** Alex: Consider a "Build your Own" approach for the more obscure Platforms? - Frees us from keeping older binaries in sync
+
*** Did that for ARM32 and ARM64 in master - can build by just calling maven
+
*** McQ: Who would ever validate that scripts are still valid... (Linux community: provides no binaries at all, who validates?)
+
*** Alex: Providing scripts is a lot less work than providing stable and widely compatible binaries (about 1/3 of the work)
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''November 18, 2015''' - Alex, John, Dani
+
* Dani: EclipseCon NA 2016 submission from our team:
+
** https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2016/session/scaling-eclipse-high-dpi-dots-inch-monitors-challenges-and-solutions
+
** https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2016/session/java-9-support-eclipse
+
* John: mentioned FEEP
+
** Alex has concerns that there's not an equal opportunity for everyone
+
* Alex: new Lucene version: would like to put it in
+
** cross-projects has already been asked and we got no negative vote
+
** CQs are approved
+
** seems to be blocked by Orbit
+
** ==> Alex to find out why and report back next week in the PMC call
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''November 11, 2015''' - McQ, John, Dani
+
* Discussed new meeting time that works for Martin
+
** John to send a note that proposes Tuesday, 11:00 EST / 17:00 CET (starting in two weeks)
+
* John: Alex mentioned at EclipseCon that there's no one in SWT team overlooking cross-platform, e.g. to craft new APIs
+
** owning one platform is a full-time job
+
** would need another person in SWT
+
** for now one of the two co-leads needs to own that task - Dani to talk to Pradeep and the co-leads
+
* John to Dani: how was EclipseCon
+
** Dani: Great! Lots of talking to people; spent quite some time at the Hackathon; only saw 4 talks
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''October 28, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
+
* Dani: Discuss new meeting time that works for Martin
+
** decided that John will send out a doodle poll
+
* Dani: Discuss our position regarding the removal of committer emeritus ({{bug|480670}})
+
** everyone agreed that we would like to keep this for the following reasons:
+
*** it is a good way reward those committers who invested lots of their time and made significant contributions to a project
+
*** it makes no sense to remove something that currently works and ask projects to maintain this on their website
+
** we have to make sure that the emeritus list doesn't get stale
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''October 21, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
+
* Dani: so far no negative vote in the vote to move platform.text into platform.ui
+
* McQ: Martin can no longer join, McQ would like to move the meeting
+
** detailed several alternatives but no fit yet
+
** decided to continue the discussion in our next meeting
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''October 14, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
+
* Dani: Community asked to move platform.text into platform.ui (see [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-text-dev/msg00484.html https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-text-dev/msg00484.html])
+
** 3 solutions:
+
*** make the move
+
*** make a more radical move to merge everything into 'Platform'
+
*** leave things as is and let new people join platform.text
+
** McQ: merging everything together is not an option. Skills are too different. Resources, Debug and SWT need to be kept separate.
+
** Dani: fine with the move as long as it does not serve as argument to merge everything into one pot
+
** Alex: committers need to accept the move
+
** PMC decision: OK with the move but Dani to ask the platform.text and platform.ui committers whether they are both OK with it. Dani to become co-lead of Platform UI
+
 
+
* John from Board Meeting: Eclipse Foundation wants to change perception that Eclipse is just an IDE. Therefore they would like to change the name of our project ("Eclipse").
+
** McQ:
+
*** this will not be for free. The name is used at many places (code, webpage, Help) and also by companies in their marketing
+
*** maybe we just have to accept we made a mistake in the beginning and now live with it
+
*** can't think of a good name - which indicates we shouldn't change it ("Platform" is not good and "Eclipse SDK" or "Eclipse IDE" hide that it is the base for "RCP" apps)
+
** decided to talk about this again in the next call
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''October 7, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani, Martin
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|108668}} Default Text Encoding UTF-8 ?'''
+
** On Linux and Mac, the Platform encoding is UTF-8 ; on Windows it's Cp1252 in most countries around the globe, even with Windows 10
+
** Using the Platform encoding ensures interoperability with all local tools (editors, compilers, ...)
+
*** '''Desire for UTF-8 only for Windows exchanging files with users on other systems'''
+
*** '''Changing the encoding of an existing workspace after the fact is a no go''' (risk of data corruption when loading/saving a file, some encodings are lossy)
+
*** '''Using an encoding different than the OS encoding is problematic too''' (risk of data corruption when importing or D&D files from the OS)
+
** Proposal 1: UTF-8 on new empty workspaces on Windows ? --&gt; Might mean that external tools don't work as expected
+
** Proposal 2: Make users aware (Restore Oomph Welcome, which was disabled via {{bug|459486}}) ? --&gt; But many users don't understand implications, other tools also don't do this
+
** Proposal 3: Ask for encoding when team-sharing since only team-shared projects cause issues (eg EGit hook) ? --&gt; But on "push" it may be too late
+
** Martin: Encoding describes content, so should be managed with the content (as a project setting)
+
*** '''--&gt; Proposal 4: Move to a model where we encourage setting the project-level encoding preference'''
+
**** When creating a project, set the workspace default on project level automatically --&gt; ensures that projects remain sane over their lifetime
+
**** For projects lacking the project-level preference, introduce a Problem Marker (Warning) with quick fix to either UTF-8 or workspace default
+
** '''Decision:'''
+
*** '''We won't change the workspace default''' -- no use breaking existing users
+
*** '''We'll set the project encoding pro-actively'''
+
** Open questions:
+
*** Do we need tooling to convert project from encoding A to encoding B (if project preference was set incorrectly initially) ?
+
*** Shall we try setting source encoding on drag-and-drop, or shall the project dictate the policy ?
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''September 30, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
+
* Dani: will send a note to PMC list asking to approve new Debug leadership (Sarika)
+
* Dani: we should finalize our API removal discussion from last week
+
** agreed that APIs marked for removal have to be annotated with @noreference, @noextend and @noimplement
+
** agreed that components should be allowed to remove API but they have to provide good reasons
+
** agreed that we won't allow to delete APIs simply because they are deprecated
+
** agreed that the PMC will decide case by case i.e. there will be no general rule
+
** regarding version numbering we decided to also decide this case by case
+
** Dani to update the removal document and have it reviewed by the PMC
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''September 23, 2015''' - Dani, John, Alex, Martin
+
* Dani: '''JDT Core''' - Co-lead going to step up
+
* Dani: '''API Removal Discussion'''
+
** Q1: When do we actually delete API? What's the benefit compared to the pain that we cause ?
+
*** Example of methods that don't do anything any more or do wrong things -- those should be removed
+
*** Example TableTreeViewer : Continue having the API doesn't hurt, there's no significant benefit removing it
+
**** Alex: TableTree was completely broken on GTK for 2-3 years ... keeping such components that don't work properly lowers the quality
+
**** Dani: Is there actual proof of bugs ? Or could it be working fine on Windows RCP ? If it's deprecated, people use it at own risk; do we really need to break them, if it provides value to some people on some Platforms ?
+
**** John: In TableTreeViewer case, EMF had some generic code (was unclear if the path was ever taken) and CDT could update easily
+
*** '''Summary''': scheduling for removal is OK with good arguments. Give Adopters a chance to respond before removal takes place.
+
 
+
** Q2: '''How to deal with the versions?'''
+
*** Dani: Updating the major causes major pain on everyone (adoption work), so this should be avoided
+
**** Actively developed plugins will notice source breakage when recompiling anyways -- no need to update the major for them.
+
**** For dormant plugins (not recompiled), everyone will break when updating the major although only few may be affected - is it worth notifying those small percentage that might break ?
+
**** Plugins who don't care recompiling may have to live with ClassNotFoundException
+
**** Tooling exists: API Use Scan Tools can discover incorrect API references that are not announced by the versions
+
*** '''Summary:''' Handle the Major with care -- in most cases, the cost of updating the major is not justified by the benefit.
+
 
+
** John: '''Announcement''' When thinking about removing something, we should announce that far and wide and ask for feedback
+
*** Martin: But which channel is as effective as actually removing it ? There's always who don't actually listen...
+
*** John: Still, giving a possibility to listen is important. Agree that mentioning in the release docs is not enough.
+
*** Dani: When making a release, also send message with a link to the removals page (for all removals that are planned)
+
** John: Mechanisms for maintaining binary compatibility while only breaking source compatibility (but it's a lot of work!)
+
*** Dani: Agree, in this case better just leave it in there
+
 
+
** Alex: What to do next time, can we remove more stuff ?
+
*** Martin: Should be at the discretion of the committers. They do the work. If they see the need for removal, they should be allowed to do so (as long as they play by the rules, like early announcement). Need to define what the rules are.
+
 
+
** John: There was an interesting discussion on cross-project, asking for well-known points in time where major breakage can occur
+
*** Eg release but without all the deprecated at certain well-known point in time eg every 3-5 years
+
*** '''AI''' ''continue that discussion on the Architecture Council''
+
 
+
** '''Summary:''' Essentially do what we did, plus more communication upfront, allow people to respond before deletion happens (to avoid churn)
+
*** Committers still need to be able to delete stuff when they find it necessary.
+
*** Updating the major (or not) to be decided case by case, but in many cases "breaking everyone" is not justified against "notifying few dormant plugins".
+
 
+
* Alex: '''Bumping the minimum GTK version again''' (may cause issues on Platforms like AIX -- to be discussed when it's time)
+
 
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''September 16, 2015''' - John, Martin
+
* John: '''API Removal Discussion'''
+
** No urgency now -- changes have been reverted for now, and scheduled for 2017
+
** Updating the major of a bundle knowingly breaks everyone/most adopters
+
*** In the past, breaking changes have often been small enough to work without increasing the major
+
*** One can argue that removing TableTreeViewer is big enough to warrant updating the major
+
** Versioning packages has not been done in the past due to the huge upcoming maintenance effort when starting to do so
+
** "Release Version" is decoupled from "bundle versions" already (and may move to date-based versions eg "2016.1" with rolling updates moving forward
+
** --&gt; will have more discussion next week
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''September 9, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John, McQ
+
* John: '''Planning Council Updates'''
+
** 4 planned releases (March, June, September, December -- essentially end of each quarter) with flexible contents
+
** Mid December rather than end to avoid churn, so this one is a little shorter
+
** Only June is "major" - allowing to drop off, or breaking changes; others are "minor"
+
** McQ want to reduce the number of simultaneous streams -- if "master" is more stable more often that's OK, but avoid too many "live" streams
+
 
+
* Software is getting more important - would be good to better support multicore
+
 
+
* John: '''IntelliJ change in licensing / sales model'''
+
** Many eclipse-positive comments on the announcement blog
+
** Possibility putting Money on Eclipse Development may become interesting for companies in this context
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''September 2, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
+
* Dani: '''EclipseDay India''' on Saturday, 200 attendees wanted to join, hat to cut to 150
+
** Keynote by Mike Milinkovich - large Community
+
 
+
* Dani: '''Policy for and Mars.2'''
+
** Do we want to stick to the "Service" model or allow feature updates ?
+
** Mars.1 winding down -- sticking to "Critical Fixes Only" for that
+
** Too much in the maintenance stream causes risk of defocus ... are there relevant features that are worth the extra effort ?
+
** Dani: Suggests to require PMC Approval for adding a feature in - example candidate: Improvements for HiDPI
+
*** Also: What about version number (2nd digit version update), IP disclosures, Translations ... ?
+
*** Dani would suggest sticking to 3rd digit update only in the marketing release number; but a Release Review would be needed
+
 
+
'''August 26, 2015''' -
+
* Dani/Alex/Martin can't join (traveling)
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''August 19, 2015''' - Alex, Dani
+
* nothing to discuss
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''August 12, 2015''' - John, Dani
+
* John asked whether we run on Windows 10
+
** Dani: yes, the team already tested on it a few weeks ago. Runs smoothly one bug so far. Browser widget works despite new browser (Edge)
+
** ''Martin (added after the meeting): A CDT update is needed to keep the Terminal from hanging (see {{bug|474327}}, will release with Mars.1). Got some duplicates already. Workaround is switch the Win10 Console to "Legacy Mode".''
+
* Dani would like to get plan feedback by Friday EOD
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''August 5, 2015''' - McQ, John, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* PC meeting later today (planning calendar, calling SR1/2 "Update 1/2" instead
+
** adding another release before Christmas might be a next step - even if Platform contributes identical bits
+
 
+
* Dani: '''[[Eclipse/Mars Retrospective]]'''
+
** Move more components to Tycho build? (Would still need Ant to test against final build/bits)
+
** Contribution Review Dates: joined by some components but not all
+
** Error Reporter: Interesting to look at top ten but the sheer number is too big
+
*** John - based on Orion experience with similar error reporting :
+
**** Looking at changes in reported issues is more interesting than looking at reports themselves
+
**** Reports help getting contributions (But, Dani finds that "just adding a null check" is often not what's desired for Java .. though helpful for Javascript)
+
 
+
* Dani: Foundation IP team doesn't require updating copyright notices per contribution any more (since that information is in git anyways)
+
** The Project has to agree
+
** Some contributors like to have their name in the source -- that's OK, no requirement to remove author information, but no requirement to add either
+
** Won't remove existing lists (they never claimed to be complete, since there always was the "...and others" copyright notice
+
** Dani to sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02422.html request for voting]
+
 
+
* Dani: Switching to '''Jetty 9.3.x (which requires JRE 8)'''
+
** JRE 8 from Oracle (and also from IBM) exists for all Reference Platforms
+
** Except Solaris, because we only support Solaris 32-bit and the JRE only exists as 64-bit
+
** But the Plan for Neon is to have 64-bit Solaris support
+
** New Language features in Java 8 are adopted, contributors would like to start using Java 8
+
** McQ: In the past, staying on older Java was desired to enable more widespread use ... today, this argument does not seem valid any more, in fact likely more contributions / community is enabled by moving to Java 8
+
** Dani: Only concern is some "non reference" Platforms like HP-UX might not have JREs initially; but that's OK as long as the reference platforms are good
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move to JRE 8 and allow projects to use Java 8 in their code.
+
 
+
* Dani: Looking for a contributor for SWT improvements for GTK3
+
 
+
* Martin: '''libwebkitgtk-3 on Ubuntu 14 forcing GTK 2''' not working ?
+
** Alex: Using libwebkitgtk-4 which is much more stable, but not implementing the full SWT API
+
** Most distros don't ship libwebkit for gtk-2 any more since it's not supported upstream any more and has many security issues
+
 
+
* Alex: '''Build SWT at the Foundation'''
+
** Work with the Foundation going well, expect to have RHEL machines deployed at the foundation next month
+
 
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''July 15, 22 and 29, 2015''' -- no meeting
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''July 8, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Alex
+
* John: '''Cross-Language Tooling Discussion''' on the eclipse.org-architecture-council and ide-dev mailing lists
+
* decided to cancel the upcoming July meetings
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''July 1, 2015''' -- no meeting
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''June 24, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
+
* Dani: '''Java 9''' - <a href="http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/eclipse-java%E2%84%A2-9-support-beta-mars">EAR Feature Patch</a> on the Marketplace NOW
+
** No JARs any more - JRE is doing things internally using "jimage" format; updated search etc to create projects and work against them
+
** If the Jimage filesystem provider isn't backported, one has to run the IDE on Java9 in order to code Java9
+
** Modules are just a list of packages (and can refer to other modules) - no real JSR describing the plan yet - seems like just a replacement of "Profiles" (and JARs)
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''June 17, 2015''' - Dani, John, Martin, Alex
+
* John: '''Mars''' Platform in good shape for Mars - EPP respin for Error Reporting
+
* Dani: '''Crashes with Java 8''' - Potentially will add to the online README
+
** Happens in the JIT, with latest Oracle Java 8 (with 8 Cores and very specific circumstances)
+
** See {{Bug|465693}} - Probably https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8078262
+
* Alex: '''XDG Application''' - looks like Docker but a similar idea
+
** Environment description of the runtime - helps specifying the line-up of library versions that we test against and use
+
** Big part of GNOME / GTK already pushing for it, might make sense to consider alignment
+
** GNOME working towards compiling with a really old compiler, such that the physically identical bits can run against a large set of distros
+
** See https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps
+
** But if you want to try it out please read https://blogs.gnome.org/alexl/2015/06/17/testing-rawhide-apps-using-xdg-app/
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''June 10, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Dani: 4.5RC4 looking good, no more fixes planned
+
* Dani: Working on Java 9 feature patch
+
* Alex: PC discussing a change in the release train
+
** Current common ground seems to be a request for more release points, and projects could decide whether they do features or maintenance
+
** From Platform point of view, stability is key. Some key contributors not interested doing
+
** Martin: How to also cater to contributors who want their contributions released soon ?
+
*** Martin Idea: With Tycho, building the Platform is easier so ask contributors build themselves
+
*** Or, open up a new "experimental" stream ?
+
*** Dani Idea: Market milestone builds differently, as "fully consumable" would serve the same purpose
+
* Martin: Tested eclipse-installer (Oomph), looking really really good now
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''June 3, 2015''' - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
* Dani: '''Mars Endgame'''
+
* Dani: Please vote for release review
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''May 20, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
* Dani: '''Security Update''' - Platform work done, Orbit updated, reached out to Wayne and other affected projects.
+
* Dani: '''RC2 Build''' - too many bugs assigned, Lars on Vacation, Dani will fill in
+
* McQ: '''Too Many Platforms Built?''' - Who's really hurt by "too many builds" ?
+
** Will meet with Mike & Foundation tomorrow, Alex is also interested (Dani to check).
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''May 13, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Martin
+
* John, Dani - Mars Endgame looking good
+
* Alex - {{bug|465874}} Lucene 5 looking good, almost done - Ready to commit as soon as CQs are in and Mars+1 is open
+
* JDT for Java 9 - will need a wider discussion with EMO on make it easier to publish the work, e.g. in normal builds
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''May 6, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 timing''' - slight delay
+
* Dani: RC1 preps
+
** 2-day test pass went fine - 2 severe issues found, will be addressed
+
** Request to watch PMC mailing list for API exceptions and defect approvals
+
* John: '''PC Discussion on Release Cycles'''
+
** Multiple releases per year PLUS maintenance streams seems like overkill
+
** Consider an approach like Orion that just moves constantly forward
+
** Especially for the Platform, being rock solid is most important. Still to attract new contributors we need to allow more frequent "feature updates".
+
*** A model where both "stable/maintenance" _and_ "features" are contributed to the train might be too much work/overhead.
+
*** Consider a model like Ubuntu, ... with some release numbers being "stable/LTS base" and others being "in-between feature releases" ?
+
*** Consider a model like LTS for maintenance fixes / aside mainstream just moving forward ?
+
 
+
 
+
'''April 15, 2015''' - Dani, John, McQ, Alex, Martin
+
* Dani: '''Java 1.7 Changes'''
+
** Some bundles have been moved to a 1.7 BREE by new committers, even after API freeze
+
** Rule has always been "we move up when there's a reason to move up". We won't move up without reason.
+
*** Dani: Moving the BREE may even cause API changes, so should only be done when incrementing the minor version (5% risk)
+
*** Alex: Such updates allow staying current and not get to "rewrite is needed" state (thus needed) but has to happen before M6 (API freeze)
+
** Alex suggest not accepting additional changes, but not reverting either (to avoid churn)
+
* Dani: '''Batik 1.6 update'''
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''April 8, 2015''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, John, McQ
+
* Dani: '''Batik''' - Platform is good, Train may need to update, perhaps updating one bundle only would suffice. John will follow up.
+
* Alex: '''SWT for GTK 3 News'''
+
** GTK port finally decoupled from X11 - it renders on Wayland now, can switch the renderer to a pure HTML one
+
** This opens up opportunities (but depends on hosts that have GTK).
+
 
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''April 1, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani (Regrets: John travelling)
+
* Alex: '''GTK 3.16''' seeing issues again - fixed some crashes, but scrolling is still entirely broken
+
** SWT uses a number of things that GTK declares as "implementation detail"
+
* PMC approval on piggyback CQ's (AC question forwarded by John)
+
** Dani sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02332.html our position] to John in order to update the AC
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''March 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
+
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - Bigger this year due to LocationTech (750 attendees)
+
** Mark Reinhold keynote and "after-session" on Java 9
+
** Much interest in Orion JS tooling / editor, also on desktop
+
** Public face of Eclipse Platform at the conference was much more diverse than in the past (Lars Vogel, Max Anderson, Google ...)
+
* Dani: {{bug|458730}} '''Mars Plan Update'''
+
* Dani: '''e4 project leadership''' approved by EMO
+
* Dani: Szymon Brandys resigned as Platform/Resources co-lead. Need to +1 on the mailing list
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''March 11, 2015 - no meeting (EclipseCon)'''
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''March 4, 2015''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, John
+
* Dani: '''e4 leadership''' - Dani will volunteer to co-lead
+
* Dani: '''BREEs''' - documentation about how to pick the EE
+
** Recommending the "earliest generally supported JRE that provides the capabilities you need"
+
** Would like an URL on the page pointing to the most recent plan (talking to Wayne)
+
* John: '''greatfix contest'''
+
** Dani: Working well - some very small contributions but some also very large (eg Customize Perspective fixes)
+
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - numbers looking good; join Planning Council Breakfast as delegate for Dani
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''February 25, 2015''' - Dani, Martin McQ
+
* No topics
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''February 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Alex: '''Building Native Launchers'''
+
** Current way of building is kinda unpredictable - even if getting some agreement on versions to use, results are kinda unpredictable
+
** Pushing towards Hudson RHEL builders at least at the EF to get more transparency and automation - attempt to mimic the infrastructure at IBM
+
** Looking at 3 primary architectures (at the EF) for Linux vs. secondary architectures (non-public builders potentially)
+
* Dani: Great initiative, but other (non-EF) builders must not be broken
+
** EF doesn't allow any commercial tools (but currently, e.g. Windows launchers are built with MSVS)
+
* Alex is willing to spend time to get Linux builds running; but can't help with other architectures
+
** Martin: great approach - for Windows, using a cross-compiler on Linux might be interesting (after Linux native works)
+
* Alex: This is just phase one - getting rid of the binaries in git repos might be phase 2 (since the checked-in binaries easily cause inconsistencies between Java and Native side)
+
** Martin: Checked-in binaries help consumers and contributors who just want to make a Java change
+
** Dani: Checked-in binaries are also used for comparing build results for expected vs accidental changes
+
 
+
* Alex: '''{{bug|459399}} - Policy for recommended minimum execution environments for bundles'''
+
** Dani: It works today
+
*** To run Eclipse, Java 8 or Java 9 can be used (minimum BREE has no impact)
+
*** To modify the source, a new JRE can be used but then the Execution Environment Descriptions need to be installed
+
** Policy as discussed in the past: Each project can increase the BREE if there is a real need (such as generifying) and no upstream clients are broken
+
*** But don't change the BREE without justification -- changing the BREE always has some effect, such as new warnings that would need to be addressed
+
*** Suggested BREE for new bundles has already been changed by Lars
+
* Alex: Even for bundles in "maintenance mode", old BREE causes issues for people who build from source (who have to change compilers etc)
+
* No conclusion so far (Alex and Dani disagree)
+
 
+
* Dani: '''e4 leadership'''
+
** Mature bits being moved to Eclipse - e4 remaining as an incubator to keep alive for experiments with low entry barrier
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''February 11, 2015''' - Dani, Alex
+
* no topics
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''February 4, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Alex: With GTK-3.15.[345] , Eclipse is entirely unusable
+
** Alex has some dirty workarounds to make it start, but still many issues like trees not painted, ...
+
** Crash on startup identified to be GTK bug. Fix to be released in 3.15.6 https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=edec64cda3d4518b4e87d5ea5d287d4570ba9933
+
* Dani: Working on Solaris 64-bit
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''January 28, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, John
+
* Dani: Switch Mac OS X 10.9 with 10.10 in Mars target environments
+
** No objections
+
* Alex: Looking for any Eclipse related activity @Fosdem
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''January 21, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
* Alex: '''Process for allowing non-committers extended bugzilla privileges (for bug triage)?'''
+
** Dani: Yes a process exists. Send bugzilla username to Dani.
+
* Alex: '''New resource for helping with SWT'''
+
* Dani: '''Platform/UI co-lead'''
+
* Dani: Solaris: Java 8 will only support 64 bits on both Intel and SPARC --&gt; IBM SWT Team considering to invest in getting patches in for 64-bit Solaris
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''January 14, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
+
* Dani: Update on Platform/UI Leadership: Daniel Rolka left IBM and for now has no time to contribute. He stepped down as co-lead and nominated Lars Vogel
+
* Dani: Solaris x86 64-bit support - patches exist, but no machine available. No luck to get one from Oracle or via Eclipse Foundation. We will not support Solaris x86 64-bit unless someone makes a machine available
+
<hr/>
+
  
'''January 7, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 
* Dani: '''Platform/UI Leadership'''
 
* John: '''Git security issue''' - pick up a patch for Jgit in the packages before SR2? - Mostly an EPP
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''Jan 10, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck
 +
* Dani: '''Platform Bits on Maven Central''' - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
 +
* Dani: '''Board Committer Rep Elections''' opening
 +
* Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
 +
* Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
 +
* Lars: '''Equinox move to Platform''' - no updates - '''AI Dani''' talk to Tom again
 +
* McQ / AlexS: '''Jubula'''
 +
** In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
 +
** Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
 +
** Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
 +
** AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
 +
*** For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
 +
*** Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
 +
*** UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
 +
*** Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
 +
*** Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
 +
*** Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure ('''AI AlexS to check''')
 +
*** Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
 +
**** Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' send slides
 +
*** '''AI Dani + Lars''' propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]

Revision as of 11:39, 16 May 2017

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

May 16, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, Lars

  • Plan Update - updated on Wiki, main plan updated, please provide feedback until tomorrow latest:
    • Has Updates to delivered / not delivered, and Target Operating Environment
  • bug 509922 Performance Tests: Header is wrong, but it really compares against 4.6.1: results are created but report is wrong
    • Code should have been improved through many action enablement changes and startup improvments
    • Sravan will work on making a proper comparison against 4.6
  • Test failures: Some in Platform/UI fail frequently, the most frequent ones should be considered for fixing
    • Browser tests: pick "an available" server, the M7 run was on a newly provisioned server which didn't have all the stuff for Webkit. This should be fixed now.
    • CVS tests fail from time to time since the CVS server isn't stable at the foundation
    • UI tests may fail if Mozilla or similar show a pop-up dialog requesting an update
  • bug 516114 Tabbed Properties View Styling Change
    • Due to the code change, the Tabbed Properties View is now loaded even if it's not used; that may degrade performance
    • The issue is due to how styling is architected; an OSGi flag activates the plugin if any class is "used", the CCS engine just checks for a class without even instantiating, that already triggers the bundle activation
    • That should be discussed for change in 4.7.1 or 4.8 ... maybe use reflection to avoid this, or avoid the need for eager activation of tabbed properties ... Lars did that in the past, but it's a lot of effort
    • Activation by itself would be relatively cheap, but then the code goes through all Singleton instantiations - hard to estimate
      • The impact is likely small compared to PDE for example, which takes 1.5 seconds out of 6 seconds startup time
    • AGREEMENT: In order to be fair to other people who worked on improving startup performance, the change should be reverted. We have a change that benefits few people, but impacts everyone here.
      • Lars: OK to revert, but in the next cycle we should look at improving activations in general. Opening the Resource perspective should not activate PDE + JDT (today, this is likely triggered due to some decorators).
      • McQ would love to see an "optimistic UI" which can render at least the shell even if not all menus/etc are yet filled in
  • Dani is out Thu-Sat, please jump in and help the team if something is needed
  • Alex: Project Structure
    • Platform/Resources doesn't have a lead at the moment. Would like to merge more and more into Platform/UI. It doesn't make sense keeping separate structures just for the sake of creating barriers to contributions.
    • Eventually we'll just have the Platform/UI morph into "The Platform Project" with more co-leads
    • In the end it's not about positions and authorities .. it's all about people who are good
    • Dani: Agrees; in experience, every 2nd contribution is causing some issues, but we do have good people even if they are not official leads
    • McQ: What we really need is high-level overview and authority to recognize changes that might negatively impact others..
    • Could eventually end up with JDT/PDE/SWT/Platform. Lars and McQ are not so sure any more if SWT really needs to be separate, had several overlapping contributions - 9 active SWT committers also work on Platform code. Consider moving forward with this after the Oxygen release...
    • AGREEMENT to move forward on this, with a Platform Leadership group. We need to advance to leadership of Eclipse along with advancing the code. Leadership change should also lead to growing community.

May 9, 2017 - Alex, Martin, Dani, McQ

  • Dani: JSR376 Jigsaw: 10 said yes and 13 said no; a new spec to be provided within 30 days
    • From a technical perspective, should be possible to resolve within 30 days
    • JDT team implementing a compiler; IBM implementing a JVM, that's completely separate concerns!
    • For implementing a compiler, the last spec is quite old, that is not good enough
    • JDT team votes via Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation), Mike considered JDT team and RH team and probably others
  • Dani: M7/RC0 - test passes upcoming; compressed scheduled due to the moved date for Devoxx
    • When using the RC, watch out for 2 things:
      1. Action contribution enablement fix -- look out for menu and toolbar items not properly enabled
      2. Section forms layout
  • Dani: httpcore 4.4.1 -> 4.4.6 ECF Update and API Compatibility
    • Annotations got removed - no binary breakage, but breaks source compatibility
    • People will prefer newer httpcore; API breakage due to annotations is unlikely
    • Also, source breakage gives developers a chance to just recompile, so accepting the new version is better
    • Alex: Are we forcing our dependencies to not break API? - We don't have that power anyways?
    • Alex: httpclient has security issues every few months ... better consume the latest now, and we'll likely have to update again. So if breaking compatibility, better do it now
    • AGREEMENT to do the update and thus accept the source breakage.
  • Flooding in Ottawa: Restricted to a fairly small area
  • Dani: Release Review, does anybody look at the full document or can it be simplified?
    • All of the information in the RV is public (eg bug statistics, # contributors, ...)
    • McQ: It's useful for consumers to see that new things are happening, that is the N&N; beyond that, the use is limited. Effort around half a day.
    • Many bloggers talk about new things anyways
    • Migration Guide and N&N will get into the RV Material; beyond that, Dani offers adding stuff that people request
    • AGREEMENT to keep it simple, and send add-on requests to Dani if they come up.

May 2, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Lars: Regex Evaluator Plugin
    • Basically a view where one can input a regex and text, and see if it matches
    • Would like to add to e4 incubator, goal to eventually add into Platform/Text or similar
    • McQ: Where it the boundary between e4 and Platform? How do people kick off little projects .. e4 incubator?
    • AGREEMENT to move code to Eclipse.org (into the incubator) and proceed from there. Might not end up in Platform, but will be good having the code at Eclipse.org.
  • Dani: Endgame plan sent - Oxygen looking good, not too many bugs open
  • Dani: JSR Jigsaw Ballot
    • Asking for finalizing the Specs on JSR376 before voting Yes, since otherwise life is hard

Apr 25, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Neon.3a
    • Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
      • AI Alex tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
      • Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem

Apr 18, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Dani: RH and Java9 Jigsaw
    • Very good write-up linked from the AC Mailinglist - see also follow-up
    • Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
  • Dani: Neon.3 Respin
    • Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
  • Lars: Glance Migration to e4 and/or Platform
    • e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
  • Lars
    • JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache

Apr 11, 2017 - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
  • Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.

Apr 04, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Martin: bug 514257 and cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue
    • Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
    • Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
    • Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
      • Commons Logging is not a Singleton
    • Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
  • Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
  • Dani: PPC - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week

Mar 28, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Replacement for Sergey
    • let's wait and see how things go
    • next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
  • Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
    • all agree
    • McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
  • Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
  • Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)

Mar 21, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Dirk Fauth Requests on eclipse-pmc
    • Alex agrees with Dani
    • Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
    • Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
  • Dani: Szymon Ptasiewicz

Mar 14, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Java 9 readiness - see cross-project-issues-dev
    • Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
      • Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
    • Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the Java 9 Readiness wiki can show violations
      • Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
      • Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
    • Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
    • All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
      • This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
    • Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
  • Dani: JUnit 5 considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
    • Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
  • Dani: 2 Platform Issues in M6
    • platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
    • major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
      • In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
      • In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
  • Alex: Generic Editor and Testing
    • Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
    • Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
    • Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
    • In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"

Mar 7, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars

  • Dani: 4.6.3 Updates - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
  • Dani: 4.7M7 Update - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
  • Dani: Java 9 / Planning Council Update - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
  • Lars: Platform.Resources Leadership after Sergey Leaving
    • Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
    • Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
    • Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
    • Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
    • Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept

Feb 28, 2017 - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Alex: Short update on Neon.3
    • 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
    • PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
  • Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
  • Martin: RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing
    • Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
    • Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
    • Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
    • AI Martin will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like bug 505826 resolved ideally
  • McQ will be out next 2 weeks

Feb 21, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey

  • Lars: bug 512273 Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and bug 512319 allow rebase
    • Agreement to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
    • Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
    • AI Lars follow up on the bug
  • Martin: UI Testing
    • RCPTT is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
    • Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
    • When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
    • Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
    • Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
      • Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
    • AI Martin follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
    • AI Alex share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
    • AI Lars play with the Reddeer API
  • Dani: Update on PPC drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs bug 512224
    • Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm AI Alex and Dani ask Denis
  • Dani: Neon.3 RC3 please keep an eye on builds
  • Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week

Feb 15, 2017


Feb 8, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: bug 509412 - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
    • Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
    • Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
    • Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
    • Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
  • Dani: Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform
    • Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
    • Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
  • Dani: Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server
    • Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
  • Dani: Scenarios for UI Testing
    • Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
  • Dani: Sign Up for Security Rep
    • See Wayne's message to PMCs requesting PMC attendance
    • John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
    • Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
    • RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up since already following security issues
  • Dani+Alex: libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC
    • Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
    • Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
    • Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
    • Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
    • Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
    • If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
    • AI Dani+McQ find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
  • Alex: Update on Reddeer Testing Framework
    • A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
    • Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
    • Martin has been looking at RCPTT which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
    • (call had to be closed at this point)

Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled


Jan 24, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: New Jetty Version - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
  • Dani: javax.xml - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
    • Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
  • Alex: Reddeer Testing Framework
    • JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
    • Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
      • Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
      • API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
    • Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
      • Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
      • No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
    • Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about RCPTT, it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
    • Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
      • Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
    • Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
    • Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --> Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
      • Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
      • AI Alex to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
      • AI Martin to try installing Jubula until next week
      • AI Martin ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.

Jan 17, 2017 - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ

  • Sergey: Merging platform.resources with platform.ui
    • Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
      • Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
    • Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
    • Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
    • Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
      • McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
    • Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
    • Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even bug 509412 was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
    • Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
    • McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
  • Lars: Removing javax.xml
    • Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
    • Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
    • Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
    • McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
    • Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
    • AI Lars send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
  • Dani: Project Updates
    • Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
  • McQ: UI Testing and Jubula

Jan 10, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck

  • Dani: Platform Bits on Maven Central - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
  • Dani: Board Committer Rep Elections opening
  • Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
  • Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
  • Lars: Equinox move to Platform - no updates - AI Dani talk to Tom again
  • McQ / AlexS: Jubula
    • In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
    • Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
    • Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
    • AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
      • For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
      • Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
      • UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
      • Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
      • Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
      • Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure (AI AlexS to check)
      • Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
        • Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
      • AI AlexS send slides
      • AI Dani + Lars propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
      • AI AlexS check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started

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