Skip to main content

Notice: this Wiki will be going read only early in 2024 and edits will no longer be possible. Please see: https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/wikis/Wiki-shutdown-plan for the plan.

Jump to: navigation, search

Difference between revisions of "Eclipse/PMC"

(172 intermediate revisions by 6 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
 
= Documents =
 
= Documents =
 
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
  
Line 8: Line 7:
 
= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
  
'''April 15, 2015''' - Dani, John, McQ, Alex, Martin
+
'''Apr 25, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
* Dani: '''Java 1.7 Changes'''
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3a'''
** Some bundles have been moved to a 1.7 BREE by new committers, even after API freeze
+
** Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
** Rule has always been "we move up when there's a reason to move up". We won't move up without reason.
+
*** '''AI Alex''' tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
*** Dani: Moving the BREE may even cause API changes, so should only be done when incrementing the minor version (5% risk)
+
*** Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem
** Alex suggest not accepting additional changes, but not reverting either (to avoid churn)
+
* Dani: '''Batik 1.6 update'''
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 8, 2015''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, John, McQ
+
'''Apr 18, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ
* Dani: '''Batik''' - Platform is good, Train may need to update, perhaps updating one bundle only would suffice. John will follow up.
+
* Dani: '''RH and Java9 Jigsaw'''
* Alex: '''SWT for GTK 3 News'''
+
** Very good write-up linked from the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03385.html AC Mailinglist] - see also [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg03389.html follow-up]
** GTK port finally decoupled from X11 - it renders on Wayland now, can switch the renderer to a pure HTML one
+
** Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
** This opens up opportunities (but depends on hosts that have GTK).
+
* Dani: '''Neon.3 Respin'''
 
+
** Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
 +
* Lars: '''[https://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/glance#group-details Glance] Migration''' to e4 and/or Platform
 +
** e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
 +
* Lars
 +
** JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 1, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani (Regrets: John travelling)
+
'''Apr 11, 2017''' - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani
* Alex: '''GTK 3.16''' seeing issues again - fixed some crashes, but scrolling is still entirely broken
+
* Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
** SWT uses a number of things that GTK declares as "implementation detail"
+
** There will be a special drop for Java 9 in July, but it has not yet been decided whether it will be a release where users automatically get the update, or a special p2 repository or Marketplace entry where the update can be done on demand.
* PMC approval on piggyback CQ's (AC question forwarded by John)
+
** Issues with Neon.3. A respin might be necessary. For details see https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/msg02741.html.
** Dani sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02332.html our position] to John in order to update the AC
+
* Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''Apr 04, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - Bigger this year due to LocationTech (750 attendees)
+
* Martin: {{bug|514257}} and [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev/msg14316.html cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue]
** Mark Reinhold keynote and "after-session" on Java 9
+
** Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
** Much interest in Orion JS tooling / editor, also on desktop
+
** Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
** Public face of Eclipse Platform at the conference was much more diverse than in the past (Lars Vogel, Max Anderson, Google ...)
+
** Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
* Dani: {{bug|458730}} '''Mars Plan Update'''
+
*** Commons Logging is not a Singleton
* Dani: '''e4 project leadership''' approved by EMO
+
** Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
* Dani: Szymon Brandys resigned as Platform/Resources co-lead. Need to +1 on the mailing list
+
* Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
 +
* Dani: '''PPC''' - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 
+
'''Mar 28, 2017''' - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani
'''March 11, 2015 - no meeting (EclipseCon)'''
+
* Replacement for Sergey
 +
** let's wait and see how things go
 +
** next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
 +
* Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
 +
** all agree
 +
** McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
 +
* Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
 +
* Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 
+
'''Mar 21, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
'''March 4, 2015''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, John
+
* Dani: '''Dirk Fauth''' [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02891.html Requests on eclipse-pmc]
* Dani: '''e4 leadership''' - Dani will volunteer to co-lead
+
** Alex agrees with Dani
* Dani: '''BREEs''' - documentation about how to pick the EE
+
** Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
** Recommending the "earliest generally supported JRE that provides the capabilities you need"
+
** Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
** Would like an URL on the page pointing to the most recent plan (talking to Wayne)
+
* Dani: '''Szymon Ptasiewicz'''
* John: '''greatfix contest'''
+
** Dani: Working well - some very small contributions but some also very large (eg Customize Perspective fixes)
+
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - numbers looking good; join Planning Council Breakfast as delegate for Dani
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 25, 2015''' - Dani, Martin McQ
+
'''Mar 14, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
* No topics
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 readiness''' - see [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev cross-project-issues-dev]
 +
** Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
 +
*** Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
 +
** Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the [[Java 9 Readiness]] wiki can show violations
 +
*** Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
 +
*** Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
 +
** Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
 +
** All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
 +
*** This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
 +
** Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
 +
* Dani: '''JUnit 5''' considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
 +
** Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
 +
* Dani: '''2 Platform Issues in M6'''
 +
** platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
 +
** major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
 +
*** In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
 +
*** In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
 +
* Alex: '''Generic Editor and Testing'''
 +
** Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
 +
** Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
 +
** Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
 +
** In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
'''Mar 7, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars
* Alex: '''Building Native Launchers'''
+
* Dani: '''4.6.3 Updates''' - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
** Current way of building is kinda unpredictable - even if getting some agreement on versions to use, results are kinda unpredictable
+
* Dani: '''4.7M7 Update''' - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
** Pushing towards Hudson RHEL builders at least at the EF to get more transparency and automation - attempt to mimic the infrastructure at IBM
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 / Planning Council Update''' - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
** Looking at 3 primary architectures (at the EF) for Linux vs. secondary architectures (non-public builders potentially)
+
** See the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/ eclipse.org-planning-council archives]
* Dani: Great initiative, but other (non-EF) builders must not be broken
+
* Lars: '''Platform.Resources Leadership''' after Sergey Leaving
** EF doesn't allow any commercial tools (but currently, e.g. Windows launchers are built with MSVS)
+
** Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
* Alex is willing to spend time to get Linux builds running; but can't help with other architectures
+
** Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
** Martin: great approach - for Windows, using a cross-compiler on Linux might be interesting (after Linux native works)
+
** Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
* Alex: This is just phase one - getting rid of the binaries in git repos might be phase 2 (since the checked-in binaries easily cause inconsistencies between Java and Native side)
+
** Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
** Martin: Checked-in binaries help consumers and contributors who just want to make a Java change
+
** Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept
** Dani: Checked-in binaries are also used for comparing build results for expected vs accidental changes
+
 
+
* Alex: '''{{bug|459399}} - Policy for recommended minimum execution environments for bundles'''
+
** Dani: It works today
+
*** To run Eclipse, Java 8 or Java 9 can be used (minimum BREE has no impact)
+
*** To modify the source, a new JRE can be used but then the Execution Environment Descriptions need to be installed
+
** Policy as discussed in the past: Each project can increase the BREE if there is a real need (such as generifying) and no upstream clients are broken
+
*** But don't change the BREE without justification -- changing the BREE always has some effect, such as new warnings that would need to be addressed
+
*** Suggested BREE for new bundles has already been changed by Lars
+
* Alex: Even for bundles in "maintenance mode", old BREE causes issues for people who build from source (who have to change compilers etc)
+
* No conclusion so far (Alex and Dani disagree)
+
 
+
* Dani: '''e4 leadership'''
+
** Mature bits being moved to Eclipse - e4 remaining as an incubator to keep alive for experiments with low entry barrier
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 11, 2015''' - Dani, Alex
+
'''Feb 28, 2017''' - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ
* no topics
+
* Alex: '''Short update on Neon.3'''
 +
** 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
 +
** PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
 +
* Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
 +
* Martin: '''RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing'''
 +
** Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
 +
** Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
 +
** Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
 +
** '''AI Martin''' will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like {{bug|505826}} resolved ideally
 +
* McQ will be out next 2 weeks
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 
+
'''Feb 21, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey
'''February 4, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Lars: {{Bug|512273}} Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and {{Bug|512319}} allow rebase
* Alex: With GTK-3.15.[345] , Eclipse is entirely unusable
+
** '''Agreement''' to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
** Alex has some dirty workarounds to make it start, but still many issues like trees not painted, ...
+
** Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
** Crash on startup identified to be GTK bug. Fix to be released in 3.15.6 https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=edec64cda3d4518b4e87d5ea5d287d4570ba9933
+
** '''AI Lars''' follow up on the bug
* Dani: Working on Solaris 64-bit
+
* Martin: '''UI Testing'''
 +
** [http://eclipse.org/rcptt RCPTT] is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
 +
** Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
 +
** When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
 +
** Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
 +
** Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
 +
*** Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
 +
** '''AI Martin''' follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
 +
** '''AI Alex''' share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
 +
** '''AI Lars''' play with the Reddeer API
 +
* Dani: '''Update on PPC''' drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs {{bug|512224}}
 +
** Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm '''AI Alex and Dani''' ask Denis
 +
* Dani: '''Neon.3 RC3''' please keep an eye on builds
 +
* Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''Feb 15, 2017'''
  
'''January 28, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, John
 
* Dani: Switch Mac OS X 10.9 with 10.10 in Mars target environments
 
** No objections
 
* Alex: Looking for any Eclipse related activity @Fosdem
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 
+
'''Feb 8, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
'''January 21, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|509412}}''' - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
* Alex: '''Process for allowing non-committers extended bugzilla privileges (for bug triage)?'''
+
** Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
** Dani: Yes a process exists. Send bugzilla username to Dani.
+
** Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
* Alex: '''New resource for helping with SWT'''
+
** Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
* Dani: '''Platform/UI co-lead'''
+
** Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
* Dani: Solaris: Java 8 will only support 64 bits on both Intel and SPARC --&gt; IBM SWT Team considering to invest in getting patches in for 64-bit Solaris
+
* Dani: '''Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform'''
 +
** Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
 +
** Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
 +
* Dani: '''Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server'''
 +
** Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
 +
* Dani: '''Scenarios for UI Testing'''
 +
** Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
 +
* Dani: '''Sign Up for Security Rep'''
 +
** See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/tools-pmc/msg03927.html Wayne's message to PMCs] requesting PMC attendance
 +
** John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
 +
** Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
 +
** '''RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up''' since already following security issues
 +
* Dani+Alex: '''libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC'''
 +
** Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
 +
** Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
 +
** Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
 +
** Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
 +
** Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
 +
** If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
 +
** '''AI Dani+McQ''' find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
 +
* Alex: '''Update on Reddeer Testing Framework'''
 +
** A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
 +
** Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
 +
** Martin has been looking at [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT] which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
 +
** (call had to be closed at this point)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 14, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
+
<strike>Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled</strike>
* Dani: Update on Platform/UI Leadership: Daniel Rolka left IBM and for now has no time to contribute. He stepped down as co-lead and nominated Lars Vogel
+
* Dani: Solaris x86 64-bit support - patches exist, but no machine available. No luck to get one from Oracle or via Eclipse Foundation. We will not support Solaris x86 64-bit unless someone makes a machine available
+
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
'''January 7, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''Jan 24, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
* Dani: '''Platform/UI Leadership'''
+
* Dani: '''New Jetty Version''' - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
* John: '''Git security issue''' - pick up a patch for Jgit in the packages before SR2? - Mostly an EPP
+
* Dani: '''javax.xml''' - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
<hr/>
+
** Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
 +
* Alex: '''[http://jboss-reddeer.github.io/reddeer/ Reddeer Testing Framework]'''
 +
** JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
 +
** Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
 +
*** Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
 +
*** API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
 +
** Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
 +
*** Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
 +
*** No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
 +
** Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT], it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
 +
** Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
 +
*** Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
 +
** Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
 +
** Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --&gt; Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
 +
*** Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
 +
*** '''AI Alex''' to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' to try installing Jubula until next week
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.
  
'''December 17, 2014''' - McQ, John, Dani
+
<hr>
* Platform UI leadership to be discussed in the next PMC call
+
'''Jan 17, 2017''' - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ
* no call on December 24 and December 31
+
* Sergey: '''Merging platform.resources with platform.ui'''
 
+
** Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
<hr/>
+
*** Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
'''December 10, 2014''' - Alex, McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
** Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
* Dani: {{bug|427768}} Mickael (Red Hat) - Nested Project support contribution to Common Navigator to better support Maven projects
+
** Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
* Dani: Red Hat also will wants to contribute making the Import easier {{bug|421930}}. First in the e4 incubator.
+
** Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
** Just import from a folder, and contribute project configurators via extension point (e.g. detect POM files, Makefiles, ...)
+
*** McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
** McQ: Many complexities ... different users may want very different things to happen
+
** Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
*** McQ: Just point to a Git repo -- the Git repo has a little metadata file at the root which allows launching the apps that the repo had been intended for ... maybe just make the project tree(s) a little more self-describing
+
** Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even {{bug|509412}} was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
*** Is there a growing list of repos which already have that? - John: In the Java world, pom.xml is getting that ...
+
** Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
*** Alex: .doap getting this (at least for Apache and GNOME projects - specifies at least the languages used)
+
** McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
* Web IDEs : McQ and others gone through a lot of analysis of Web IDE's
+
* Lars: '''Removing javax.xml'''
** Cloud9 has a much larger set of starting points ; in terms of the underlying core structure, Orion (and also Jay) are more interesting
+
** Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
** Orion has an extremely lightweight plug-in model: pieces coming from all over the world may look like all running on the server - nice infrastructure for building Community around it
+
** Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
** Orion + Flux could be a rival for anything out there
+
** Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
** Orion continues to push on the Core Coding experience - Orion Editor is on par or better than most desktop editors
+
** McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
* Vision: See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-vision/msg00065.html Minutes on the platform-vision mailing list] ... Delivery will depend on people actually participating
+
** Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
 
+
**'''AI Lars''' send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
<hr/>
+
* Dani: '''Project Updates'''
'''December 3, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, John (McQ travelling)
+
** Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
* John: [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-vision/ Platform Vision] - How to turn that into actionable items, Wayne wants to present to the Board
+
* McQ: '''UI Testing and Jubula'''
* John: '''Performance tests''' running again since a couple weeks, now the graphs are also back again :)
+
** See http://download.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/drops4/I20141202-0800/performance.php
+
** Results are there but fingerprints currently missing
+
** Baseline is 4.4.0 at the moment (consider comparing against 3.x at some point)
+
** John: From experience, a single result isn't helpful, there's often weird anomalies from build to build ... need to look at trends over multiple builds, thus the graphs are really useful
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''November 26, 2014''' - Alex, Dani
+
* No relevant topics / decisions
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''November 19, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, Dani  (''McQ and John had issues dialing in'')
+
* Dani: '''Jetty 9''' - Upgrade has been done, but new versions coming out ... will probably update from Jetty 9.2.3 to Jetty 9.2.5. Probably 9.3
+
** WTP interested in newer Jetty version ... need to agree on a common version across the Release Train.
+
** Alex: New Jetty JSP compiler failing ... filed a bug, will want this fixed (Jetty working on it)
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|179924}} Request for ssh-agent''' - patch against Team from YMNK (JSch Committer)
+
** egit would contribute the agent, but would make more sense putting it in Platform (+1 from Martin, no objection from Alex)
+
* Equinox Declarative Services implementation - ProSyst stopped providing fixes, not responsive any more
+
** New specificiation (R6) from OSGi adding lot of features, cannot risk staying behind
+
** Suggestion to remove the ProSyst stuff and replace it with the Apache Felix implementation (used by IBM / WebSphere and others)
+
** Martin: How mature / stable is the Felix code ? Can we influence it ?
+
*** Dani: Very mature. Have more influence on Felix than on the Prosyst stuff ... through the IBM committers and others.
+
*** Alex agrees. Using some parts of Felix already.
+
* John (via Dani): '''Move e4 into Platform/UI''' - would like to start the review process next week.
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''November 5, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Eclipse Foundation greatbugs initiative - call into PMC
+
* Dani: EclipseCon Europe Report - met lot of people, best attended EclipseCon Europe ever :)
+
** IOT; IDE in the Web; are people moving away from Eclipse before the transition to Web can be completed ?
+
* Alex: Discussion with Christian Campo on scaling up
+
** Should better go into SWT ... but SWT has a reputation that it's hard getting a change in -- people prefer re-doing things their own than contributing :(
+
** Alex thinks this problem doesn't exist any more ... but how to fight this misconception ?
+
** John: Getting a change in may now be hard due to other reasons, eg lack of experienced committers
+
** Alex: Consider voting in new committers more easily if somebody is interested ?
+
* Alex: Difference between Eclipse and the Linux Foundation
+
** Linux Foundation doesn't provide anything that anybody can use directly (just a source tarball) --&gt; all users become "contributors" of some sort
+
** This leads to different expectations and has a number advantages (eg issues are reported to and worked on by member companies only)
+
 
+
'''October 22, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, John
+
* Platform plan update nearly done, will be released soon
+
* Orion release review is ongoing, release will be next week
+
* Brief discussion of new bug reporting tool and related bug [https://dev.eclipse.org/recommenders/committers/dashboard/#/dashboard/temp/e6leTB3gQy-zUZI-73KtRQ dashboard]
+
* PMC called '''canceled''' next week due to EclipseCon Europe
+
 
+
'''October 1, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ
+
* Dani - In touch with Oracle regarding Solaris x86
+
* McQ - '''Platform UI''' tension between making Platform UI as stable as possible, versus new features
+
** Community forming for new contributions - that's great! - But takes committer's time; committers reduced to "productize and fix" is problematic
+
** how to get more contributions for bug fixes ?
+
*** Alex: What about saying "This release we only accept bug fixes" ? Or for some milestone, eg after M4 only accept bug fixes ?
+
*** Dani: Sounds great, but will the Community accept that ? - JDT BugBash did not work that well...
+
*** Dani to prepare a draft message
+
* Dani was in Bangalore - talked to Arun - good collaboration with Alex
+
** Hard to get new SWT developers (Sami moving away on RH side)
+
** Ideas to keep SWT relevant ... eg generate Browser based things
+
*** GTK3 supports running in a browser now... (just one label for now, but an interesting approach)
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''September 24, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, John, Martin
+
* John: '''SWT Binaries Repository''' has got too big
+
** Will prune old versions out of the git repository (which is only used internally) - "Release" drops will still be available from release builds.
+
** '''DECISION:''' OK to prune.
+
* '''SWT master still has sources for old Platforms''' like carbon and motif - cluttering up the source code
+
** '''DECISION:''' OK to remove references - source would remain in git for old branches, but not be visible in master any more.
+
* Dani: '''p2 and Equinox''' - no sign-off for M2, leaders stepping down ?
+
** consider moving p2 back into Equinox, and probably Equinox back into the Eclipse project ?
+
** John: Equinox committers not really knowledgeable about p2 ... still, with less than 3 active committers a threshold is reached (can't hold elections any more)
+
** Still there's a couple of people contributing, so there are knowledgeable folk around
+
** Dani: If there's committers committing code, they should also be responsible for sign-off
+
* Dani: '''Java 7 and Jetty 9'''
+
** Been using Jetty 8 for a while, now, there is Community Pressure upgrading to Jetty 9 but that requires Java 7
+
** Java 6 no longer getting public updates since February 2013
+
** John:Adoptions needed in the Help System when moving to Jetty 9 ?
+
*** Alex don't think so - been shipping Jetty 9 for over a year already; only required changing some dependencies.
+
*** '''ACTION ITEM: Alex offered to check this'''
+
* Alex: '''Drop all the Java 6 Platforms from the list of Reference Platforms?'''
+
** '''DECISION:''' Yes this needs to be done. Trying to support Java 6 won't buy any benefit at this point.
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''September 17, 2014''' - no meeting
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''September 10, 2014''' - John, Martin, Alex, Dani
+
* John: Mars having some build hickups due to removing Mac 32-bit builds
+
* John: Luna SR1 - almost done, respinning for 2 bugs in Equinox
+
* John: Cloud TLP (for Orion and others) - still on track for announcing end October
+
* Alex: Been busy with other stuff recently, back on the GTK version support discussion this week
+
** Martin: Many people will know what distro they have (or need), but not what GTK they have on there
+
*** John: Also running GTK on AIX, Solaris, Linux Power and other which are not moving up that fast...
+
*** Martin: Examples: RHEL 5.8 was GTK 2.10.4-21 ; RHEL 4.5 was at GTK 2.4.13-22
+
*** Popular distros would be Ubuntu LTS, RHEL, OpenSUSE
+
** Alex: Newer distros have up to 3 GTK versions installed, along with some means to switch between them, it's very confusing
+
** Eclipse is the only project that dynamically loads DLL's and tries to support a broad range ... others typically compile against a specific version
+
*** Most projects require GTK 2.24
+
** John: GTK versions are not really predictable ... between 3.04 and 3.10 there was a breaking change
+
** Alex: In every release there are small issues that we work around; and there's certain releases that are breaking stuff
+
** '''NEXT ACTION: Send E-Mail'''
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''September 3, 2014''' - John, Alex, Dani
+
* Dani: away next week and on/off the next two weeks due to travel
+
* Dani: RC4 next week. PMC please watch the PMC mailing list
+
** John: will be available and monitor the mailing list
+
* Dani: Oracle interested in providing access to a Solaris 64-bit machine {{bug|442266}}
+
* John: How/where to graduate the e4 tools
+
** the community wants to graduate this out of incubation
+
** initially proposed to create a separate project, but feels like adding too much overhead
+
** John: proposed PDE as home, then Dani suggested to use Platform UI
+
** Alex, Dani and John agree to suggest Platform UI as home for the e4 tools.
+
** John to send a note to Lars
+
* Alex: Limit supported number of GTK+ versions
+
** SWT currently has to support over 20 different version. This doesn't scale.
+
** Proposal: Bump min supported version with one minor release each release. Aka Luna has Gtk 2.10 as min, Mars would have 2.12 as min. Can consider even two minor releases (Mars requires 2.14) as this would keep the amount of supported versions the same as GTK releases one minor release every 6 months.
+
** Dani, John: this is too limiting. We tended to support the most possible. Newest versions might have too many bugs.
+
** All agree: we'd like to limit the amount of supported versions
+
** Alex to cast a poll via Eclipse Foundation, which versions are used by users and companies
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''August 27, 2014''' - cancelled
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''August 20, 2014''' - John, Alex, Dani
+
* Dani: new platform PowerPC 64-bit LE {{bug|441358 }}
+
** maintained by IBM
+
** will be added to 4.4.1 as early access
+
** Dani to send a note to cross-platform
+
* Dani: individual made patches to support Solaris 64-bit {{bug|442266}}
+
** we'd like to add it but don't have a machine to support it
+
** important because our current 32-bit Solaris build will become obselete since there's no 32-bit JRE for Java 7 and beyond
+
** Oracle should be interested since they provide both, Java and Solaris
+
** Dani to ask Oracle
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''August 13, 2014''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
+
* Dani: Any feedback for the [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_5.xml Mars plan]?
+
** McQ:
+
*** It does not cover Orion, but that is OK and like in previous release plans. Orion will most likely be moved to another top-level project soon.
+
*** We want to remove Mac OS X Universal 32-bit (all agreed)
+
* Dani: How to deal with requests to push our bundles to repo.eclipse.org {{bug|441530}}
+
** Dani: OK for me but we won't do the work
+
** Alex: Maven needs the dependencies in the pom.xml. We don't want copy them from the manifest into the pom.xml and then maintain this. The pom should be updated when publishing the file into the Maven repo. Ideally by an automated task.
+
** Conclusion: all agree with this, i.e. we won't do the actual work and we won't "pollute" our pom files.
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''August 6, 2014''' - McQ, Dani
+
* Dani: Will provide initial Mars plan next week
+
 
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''No meetings in July'''
+
 
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''Jun 4, 2014''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex
+
* Dani: '''RC4 Status''' looking good
+
** 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
+
** Rest of the team working on docs
+
** Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
+
* John: '''Went over the N&N''' ... number of things went in after M7 :)
+
** Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way
+
 
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''Jun 11, 2014''' - Martin, McQ, Alex, John
+
* John: Eclipse Theming: When switching the OS Theme to dark, Eclipse should be aware
+
** Dark Theme is currently a tech preview
+
 
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''Jun 4, 2014''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex
+
* Dani: '''RC4 Status''' looking good
+
** 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
+
** Rest of the team working on docs
+
** Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
+
* John: '''Went over the N&N''' ... number of things went in after M7 :)
+
** Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way
+
 
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''May 28, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* Dani: '''EOL'ing the Delta Pack''' - announce now, remove during Mars - it's been obsoleted by p2 functionality
+
** Alex: Some of the test suite relied on the delta pack, it caused issues, OK with removing (PDE tests would need to be cleaned up)
+
* Dani: '''Copyright Updates''' - tool is very slow since not ported from CVS properly, can run for hours
+
** John: Worth doing periodically but probably won't matter legally since copyright lasts for 7 years
+
** The change is not without risk (Dani: Could schedule after the release)
+
** McQ: Should consider updating the tool as part of that work
+
** Alex: Has a new intern, could use this as an opportunity to join
+
* Dani: '''RC3 status''' - last planned build - looking good, except for Platform UI, where the list of bugs is still long
+
* McQ: Discussions about a new Eclipse.org Web-based Toplevel Project
+
 
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''May 14, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
+
* Alex: SWT GTK3 and the Endgame Rules
+
* Dani: Luna Plan Update
+
* John: New Dashboard created by the EMO
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''May 7, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, John, Martin
+
* Martin {{bug|241957}} - GTK clipboard hang
+
** Alex: GTK guys recommended using the async API, but no time for more investigation
+
** McQ: Switching a sync API to async implementation underneath can be extremely messy (need to be aware of all possible events and event sources...)
+
** McQ: If there is an idea canceling the clipboard wait ... given that the issue occurs only rarely, even a hacky solution is better than nothing
+
* Dani: will do a plan update, hopefully this week
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''April 30, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
+
* McQ: '''WB4 perspective customization''' - has it caused any issues ?
+
** Martin: Dealing with detached views works differently (dragging a window fails - must drag the tab inside the window)
+
** Dani: Saved perspectives / windows are lost on an existing workspace when moving from 3.x to 4.x
+
*** Martin/McQ: When crossing the major version boundary, it is OK to lose state - it's not nice but acceptable
+
** Dani: The bigger problem is, that the whole "Perspective customization" dialog is still not working as expected
+
*** Martin: Agree with the concern, but the Perspective customization dialog wasn't ever great
+
*** McQ: If invest work here, rather make it good than bring back the previous status quo
+
*** Martin: Most customization done via plugin.xml / Java , don't expect end users to do a lot of customization themselves
+
* Dani: '''M7 status'''
+
** Defect triage under control - some items deferred to 4.5
+
 
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''April 23, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin
+
* Alex - GTK2 or GTK3 as default - GTK3 it is
+
** GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to
+
*** xulrunner - latest version not supported by swt and latest distros don't even ship standalone xulrunner
+
*** webkitgtk - gtk2 version in maintenance mode, upstream consider dropping, really crashy See [https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-gtk/2014-March/001821.html]
+
** GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
+
** McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
+
* Dani - '''Freeze Plan created'''
+
* John - '''Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret'''
+
*
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''April 16, 2014''' - Dani, Alex
+
* no topics today
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''April 9, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
+
* Dani - '''Kepler SR2 and Java 8'''
+
** Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
+
** Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
+
** Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
+
** Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
+
 
+
* John - '''Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions'''
+
** Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
+
** Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
+
** Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
+
** Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''April 2, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
+
* Dani - new GTK3+ issues
+
** crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX ({{bug|431330}})
+
** problems with main menu ({{bug|419830}})
+
* Dani - '''Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work'''
+
** Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
+
* Dani - need to '''approve API changes for Java 8 in M7'''
+
** No API changes, only additions
+
** Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
+
** ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
+
** There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
+
* John - '''SWT over JavaFX'''
+
** EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
+
** Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
+
** Relationship to Tom Schindl's [http://www.eclipse.org/efxclipse/index.html e(fx)clipse project] ?
+
*** e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
+
*** Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
+
*** Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in {{bug|426243}}
+
*** Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
+
**** It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
+
**** John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
+
*** Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX
+
 
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''March 26, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
+
* John - '''EclipseCon Update'''
+
** Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
+
** IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
+
** Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
+
** Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
+
** See also Blog Posts from [http://cdtdoug.ca/ Doug Schaefer] and [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/author/irbull/ Ian Bull] as well as [https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2014/news/top-5-ian-bull top 5 from Ian]
+
* John - '''ARM port of GTK''' - any tracking items ?
+
** Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
+
** IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
+
** Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
+
** Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
+
*** Example: {{bug|430698}}, {{bug|429237}}, {{bug|415757}}; {{bug|419855}} talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
+
*** Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
+
*** Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
+
**** Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
+
**** Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
+
* Alex - '''Java 8 vs Java 7''' currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
+
** In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
+
** ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is {{bug|390889}} and we'll try to fix it for M7.
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''March 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
* McQ - '''Congrats on Java 8 Release''' to coincide with the Oracle release
+
* Dani - '''Windows 8 Support''' - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
+
** McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
+
** Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
+
** Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''March 12, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, McQ, John
+
* GTK - SWT team discussions
+
* John - '''preparing for Java 8 release'''
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''March 5, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
+
* Dani: '''How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit''' - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
+
* Dani: '''Windows 8 Support'''
+
** Not listed in official plan
+
** No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
+
** Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
+
** Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
+
** AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
+
*** Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
+
* Dani: '''State of GTK 3+'''
+
** Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
+
** Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
+
** Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
+
** Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
+
** On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
+
** Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
+
* Alex: '''GTK 3 in Mars'''
+
** Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
+
** RHEL 5 would no longer work
+
** Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''February 26, 2014''' - Alex, John, Martin, McQ
+
* John: '''Orion Release''' this week
+
 
+
* Alex: '''Eclipse on ARM64'''
+
** Launcher and swt at first
+
** Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
+
** John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
+
*** Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
+
*** At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
+
** Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
+
 
+
* Dani: Update on '''GTK 3+ issue''' - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
+
** Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
+
** McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
+
*** If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
+
*** Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
+
*** Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it
+
 
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''February 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
+
* Dani: '''Silenio to work on GTK issue?'''
+
* John: '''GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation'''
+
* John: '''e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools'''
+
** Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
+
** Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
+
** Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
+
** John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
+
** Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
+
*** If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
+
** Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''February 5, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
+
* Dani: '''Confcall Numbers:''' Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
+
* Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
+
* Alex: Testing on modern Linux
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''January 22, 2014''' - John, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
* John, Alex: '''New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora'''
+
** Alex been looking at Browser
+
** Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
+
** Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
+
*** Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
+
*** Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
+
* Dani: '''M5 Status'''
+
** Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''January 15, 2014''' - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin
+
* Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
+
* Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 8, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ
+
'''Jan 10, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck
* Dani: '''API Freeze''' with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception
+
* Dani: '''Platform Bits on Maven Central''' - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
 +
* Dani: '''Board Committer Rep Elections''' opening
 +
* Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
 +
* Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
 +
* Lars: '''Equinox move to Platform''' - no updates - '''AI Dani''' talk to Tom again
 +
* McQ / AlexS: '''Jubula'''
 +
** In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
 +
** Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
 +
** Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
 +
** AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
 +
*** For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
 +
*** Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
 +
*** UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
 +
*** Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
 +
*** Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
 +
*** Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure ('''AI AlexS to check''')
 +
*** Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
 +
**** Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' send slides
 +
*** '''AI Dani + Lars''' propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
 +
*** '''AI AlexS''' check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]

Revision as of 11:21, 25 April 2017

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

Apr 25, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Neon.3a
    • Respin done -- problem: Updating from Neon.3 to Neon.3a , the problematic bundles are not removed
      • AI Alex tell Jeff to ask Pascal or Tom about how to disable the bundles on update
      • Martin: If this problem can't be resolved could live with it ... better not take too much risk trying to resolve this very special problem

Apr 18, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Dani: RH and Java9 Jigsaw
    • Very good write-up linked from the AC Mailinglist - see also follow-up
    • Eclipse JDT team concerns that the Spec is not complete brought forward to Wayne
  • Dani: Neon.3 Respin
    • Last action was with Ed Merks to validate that the Fix from Tom Watson actually works - no update so far
  • Lars: Glance Migration to e4 and/or Platform
    • e4 incubator was always intended to have very low entry barrier - can give the Glance team access quickly
  • Lars
    • JUnit 5 licensing - EPL + Apache

Apr 11, 2017 - McQ, Lars, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Update from last Planning Council call:
  • Dani: Asked Lars to review the Dark theme bug. Lars, said, he's not a user of it, but has one in his team. Dani: Ask him to review the change.

Apr 04, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Martin: bug 514257 and cross-project Neon.3 wiring issue
    • Problem: External libs don't deal with versions the same way we do
    • Dani thinks that the problem is that Release Train projects don't agree on one version to use
    • Martin saw a similar problem related to some bundles doing import-package and others doing require-bundle:
      • Commons Logging is not a Singleton
    • Dani has a call with Tom later today; hoping a respin can be done after fixing in Equinox
  • Dani: Heads up on upcoming Planning Council discussion re: Java 9 and Junit 5
  • Dani: PPC - No response on McQ's message regarding PPC, Dani will update the Plan after another week

Mar 28, 2017 - McQ, Alex, Lars, Dani

  • Replacement for Sergey
    • let's wait and see how things go
    • next candidate would be Tom Watson once Equinox is moved back to the Eclipse top-level project
  • Dani: PPC strategy: drop 32-bit, provide 64-bit with Oxygen (4.7) and drop 64-bit BE with Photon (4.8)
    • all agree
    • McQ will send a note to cross-project-issues-dev
  • Lars will nominate Mikaël Barbero for Platform UI
  • Lars plans to bring a IDE search plug-in to e4 (http://ystrot.github.io/glance/)

Mar 21, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Dirk Fauth Requests on eclipse-pmc
    • Alex agrees with Dani
    • Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
    • Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
  • Dani: Szymon Ptasiewicz

Mar 14, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Java 9 readiness - see cross-project-issues-dev
    • Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
      • Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
    • Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the Java 9 Readiness wiki can show violations
      • Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
      • Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
    • Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
    • All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
      • This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
    • Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
  • Dani: JUnit 5 considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
    • Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
  • Dani: 2 Platform Issues in M6
    • platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
    • major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
      • In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
      • In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
  • Alex: Generic Editor and Testing
    • Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
    • Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
    • Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
    • In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"

Mar 7, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars

  • Dani: 4.6.3 Updates - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
  • Dani: 4.7M7 Update - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
  • Dani: Java 9 / Planning Council Update - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
  • Lars: Platform.Resources Leadership after Sergey Leaving
    • Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
    • Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
    • Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
    • Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
    • Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept

Feb 28, 2017 - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Alex: Short update on Neon.3
    • 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
    • PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
  • Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
  • Martin: RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing
    • Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
    • Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
    • Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
    • AI Martin will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like bug 505826 resolved ideally
  • McQ will be out next 2 weeks

Feb 21, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey

  • Lars: bug 512273 Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and bug 512319 allow rebase
    • Agreement to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
    • Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
    • AI Lars follow up on the bug
  • Martin: UI Testing
    • RCPTT is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
    • Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
    • When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
    • Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
    • Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
      • Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
    • AI Martin follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
    • AI Alex share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
    • AI Lars play with the Reddeer API
  • Dani: Update on PPC drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs bug 512224
    • Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm AI Alex and Dani ask Denis
  • Dani: Neon.3 RC3 please keep an eye on builds
  • Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week

Feb 15, 2017


Feb 8, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: bug 509412 - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
    • Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
    • Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
    • Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
    • Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
  • Dani: Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform
    • Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
    • Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
  • Dani: Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server
    • Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
  • Dani: Scenarios for UI Testing
    • Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
  • Dani: Sign Up for Security Rep
    • See Wayne's message to PMCs requesting PMC attendance
    • John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
    • Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
    • RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up since already following security issues
  • Dani+Alex: libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC
    • Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
    • Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
    • Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
    • Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
    • Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
    • If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
    • AI Dani+McQ find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
  • Alex: Update on Reddeer Testing Framework
    • A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
    • Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
    • Martin has been looking at RCPTT which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
    • (call had to be closed at this point)

Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled


Jan 24, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: New Jetty Version - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
  • Dani: javax.xml - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
    • Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
  • Alex: Reddeer Testing Framework
    • JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
    • Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
      • Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
      • API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
    • Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
      • Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
      • No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
    • Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about RCPTT, it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
    • Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
      • Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
    • Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
    • Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --> Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
      • Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
      • AI Alex to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
      • AI Martin to try installing Jubula until next week
      • AI Martin ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.

Jan 17, 2017 - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ

  • Sergey: Merging platform.resources with platform.ui
    • Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
      • Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
    • Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
    • Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
    • Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
      • McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
    • Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
    • Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even bug 509412 was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
    • Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
    • McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
  • Lars: Removing javax.xml
    • Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
    • Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
    • Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
    • McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
    • Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
    • AI Lars send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
  • Dani: Project Updates
    • Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
  • McQ: UI Testing and Jubula

Jan 10, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck

  • Dani: Platform Bits on Maven Central - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
  • Dani: Board Committer Rep Elections opening
  • Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
  • Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
  • Lars: Equinox move to Platform - no updates - AI Dani talk to Tom again
  • McQ / AlexS: Jubula
    • In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
    • Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
    • Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
    • AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
      • For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
      • Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
      • UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
      • Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
      • Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
      • Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure (AI AlexS to check)
      • Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
        • Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
      • AI AlexS send slides
      • AI Dani + Lars propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
      • AI AlexS check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started

Archive

Back to the top