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= Documents =
 
= Documents =
 
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
  
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= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
  
'''February 15, 2012:''' - Dani, McQ, John
+
'''Mar 21, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
* Some discussion of what to do with PDE Build, which lacks committers. PDE as a whole has barely enough committers to be a functioning project, so maybe we should be looking at a larger restructuring after
+
* Dani: '''Dirk Fauth''' [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02891.html Requests on eclipse-pmc]
Juno rather than one piece at a time. We lacked quorum to make a decision so we will defer discussion to anotehr week.
+
** Alex agrees with Dani
 +
** Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
 +
** Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
 +
* Dani: '''Szymon Ptasiewicz'''
  
 +
'''Mar 14, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''Java 9 readiness''' - see [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev cross-project-issues-dev]
 +
** Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
 +
*** Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
 +
** Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the [[Java 9 Readiness]] wiki can show violations
 +
*** Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
 +
*** Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
 +
** Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
 +
** All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
 +
*** This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
 +
** Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
 +
* Dani: '''JUnit 5''' considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
 +
** Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
 +
* Dani: '''2 Platform Issues in M6'''
 +
** platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
 +
** major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
 +
*** In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
 +
*** In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
 +
* Alex: '''Generic Editor and Testing'''
 +
** Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
 +
** Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
 +
** Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
 +
** In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 8, 2012:''' - Dani, Martin, Andrew, McQ
+
'''Mar 7, 2017''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars
* Andrew: Eclipse stand at '''FOSDEM in Brussles'''
+
* Dani: '''4.6.3 Updates''' - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
** Lots of people just dropped by to say hi and thanks
+
* Dani: '''4.7M7 Update''' - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
** Mike Milinkovich was showing off Orion; Gunnar and Andrew did others (Web, EclipseRT, C/C++)
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 / Planning Council Update''' - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
* McQ: '''4.2 Quality''' ... current list of defects looks manageable to tick all off .. any messaging we want to do ?
+
** See the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-planning-council/ eclipse.org-planning-council archives]
 +
* Lars: '''Platform.Resources Leadership''' after Sergey Leaving
 +
** Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
 +
** Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
 +
** Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
 +
** Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
 +
** Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 1, 2012:''' - Dani, Martin, John
+
'''Feb 28, 2017''' - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ
* Dani: '''No UA Committers any more''' - move UA under Platform UI such that at least somebody can apply patches
+
* Alex: '''Short update on Neon.3'''
** AI John check with Wayne ... UA is a subcomponent now, may not even need a move review.
+
** 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
* Dani: {{bug|343150}} git '''DenyNonFastForward'''
+
** PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
** Orion could eventually add tooling to support easy workflows in spite of deny on the repo ... but not in this release
+
* Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
** Ping on the bug again and proceed
+
* Martin: '''RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing'''
* John: Decide when to switch 4.2 builds from re-using 3.x binary bundles vs full 4.x builds
+
** Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
** Today, the 4.x testsuite just tests 4.x specific stuff; things like JDT tests just run against 3.8 today
+
** Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
** Today, cannot generate Javadocs in 4.x today sine it needs the full source
+
** Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
** Today, nightlies are running 3.x only (could change to running 4.x nightlies only)
+
** '''AI Martin''' will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like {{bug|505826}} resolved ideally
** Today, 3.x builds run at IBM and 4.x builds run at Eclipse.org
+
* McQ will be out next 2 weeks
** Only few test failures left in the 4.x builds --&gt; ready to switch
+
** AI: '''Kim''' to send 4.x test results to the mailing list, consider switching right after M5
+
** '''Performance Tests:''' Not yet run on 4.x yet - should be able to run on Denis' vserver
+
*** IBM is going to lose the physical machines for performance tests in 2 weeks ! (Going to migrate to vserver too!)
+
*** Need a new baseline
+
** Andrew: at '''FOSSLC''' in Brussels this week, going to represent Eclipse with Mike Milinkovich, Gunnar Wagenknecht and others
+
* '''Gerrit''': Platform won't jump in as an early adopter this time, wait for other projects first
+
** Not all Platform Unittests can run on Hudson today (need at least some fingerprint tests to get value from Gerrit)
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 25, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew, Dani
+
'''Feb 21, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey
* McQ: '''Note about 4.2 on Release Train'''
+
* Lars: {{Bug|512273}} Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and {{Bug|512319}} allow rebase
* Andrew: '''Eclipse 4.2 for Fedora''' - Feature note written for Eclipse Juno led to some discussion at Eng.Steering Committee, but finally approved
+
** '''Agreement''' to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
* Dani: Team down by 1 but no impact (Dani is going to take over responsibilities)
+
** Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
* John: '''Build Failures in UA, Update, PDE, p2 yesterday''' after the move to Java 7... nobody watching these, need to find caretakers
+
** '''AI Lars''' follow up on the bug
** UA tests often fail due to a link validity checker, these can be caused by anyone
+
* Martin: '''UI Testing'''
** Certificate Validity issue (Jar signing)
+
** [http://eclipse.org/rcptt RCPTT] is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
 
+
** Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
 +
** When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
 +
** Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
 +
** Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
 +
*** Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
 +
** '''AI Martin''' follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
 +
** '''AI Alex''' share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
 +
** '''AI Lars''' play with the Reddeer API
 +
* Dani: '''Update on PPC''' drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs {{bug|512224}}
 +
** Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm '''AI Alex and Dani''' ask Denis
 +
* Dani: '''Neon.3 RC3''' please keep an eye on builds
 +
* Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 18, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew, Dani
+
'''Feb 15, 2017'''
* McQ: '''4.2 quality''' and next steps
+
** More resources found to enable 4.2 as the LTS base - encouraging, although some items still missing
+
** Fedora 17 think about shipping 4.2m6 (work ongoing) - that would be a large stack on top of 4.2
+
** John: '''Oracle Java 7 as Reference Platform''' now that the most severe issues are fixed (Java 6 EOL is June 2012 !) - that is Oracle, not OpenJDK
+
*** Not remove Java 6 for now
+
*** Fedora also does all tests on 7
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 11, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''Feb 8, 2017''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
* McQ: '''State of Presentation API's'''
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|509412}}''' - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
** Different API's in 4.2 and 3.x -- will need to deprecate API in 3.x
+
** Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
** Christian suggested deleting API that's not implemented in 4.x to get compile errors ... John thinks that binary compatibility is more important
+
** Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
*** Plugins will be "mostly OK", presentation API is cosmetic anyways
+
** Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
** McQ: get in touch with clients who use presentation API, telling them what's best to do ... often newer 4.x infrastructure is much better than trying to keep 3.x around forever
+
** Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
* Andrew: '''Cairo and GTK3'''
+
* Dani: '''Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform'''
* John: '''4.2 compiling now'''
+
** Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
* Martin: '''Updated JSch-0.1.44 version''' - how to announce properly
+
** Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
** AI Martin Announce on eclipse-dev and cross-project
+
* Dani: '''Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server'''
** Should also put into migrtion notes and README
+
** Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
 +
* Dani: '''Scenarios for UI Testing'''
 +
** Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
 +
* Dani: '''Sign Up for Security Rep'''
 +
** See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/tools-pmc/msg03927.html Wayne's message to PMCs] requesting PMC attendance
 +
** John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
 +
** Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
 +
** '''RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up''' since already following security issues
 +
* Dani+Alex: '''libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC'''
 +
** Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
 +
** Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
 +
** Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
 +
** Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
 +
** Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
 +
** If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
 +
** '''AI Dani+McQ''' find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
 +
* Alex: '''Update on Reddeer Testing Framework'''
 +
** A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
 +
** Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
 +
** Martin has been looking at [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT] which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
 +
** (call had to be closed at this point)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 4, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
<strike>Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled</strike>
* McQ: Pascal's note about p2 leadership .. not sure who could step in and make a commitment (may see the same fate as UA)
+
** Tom Watson looking for candidates, but looks like none in McQ's team
+
 
+
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''December 14, 2011:''' - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Andrew
 
* API Tooling Baseline comparison 3.7 vs 4.2 -- problematic since API was copied
 
* {{bug|343150}} git '''denyNonFastForward''' ie forbid commits that rewrite history ... looking for general policy ... Eclipse Project to adopt immediately.
 
** Andrew: Denis may roll out the change to all repos
 
** Resolution: Wait until after Christmas, if not rolled out by then move forward ourselves
 
* McQ (Tom Watson): '''Leadership for p2 team'''
 
* John: '''4.2 Builder switching to Hudson for M5''' - not all of the UI tests compile
 
** Lot of test failures
 
** Just flip the switch to Hudson, and live with failures at some point ... (and commit to fixing test failures as fast as we can)
 
** Fixing a components' test is the component team's job.
 
* Vacations: '''Skip next 2 weeks'''
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''Jan 24, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
'''December 7, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin
+
* Dani: '''New Jetty Version''' - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
* Martin: {{bug|365908}} with 4.2m4 not picking up extensions from dropins/
+
* Dani: '''javax.xml''' - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
* John / Dani - XML problems breaking the build due to a "Help Index Generation" ant task
+
** Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
* John / Anrew - '''Hudson Failures''', Platform fortunately not there
+
* Alex: '''[http://jboss-reddeer.github.io/reddeer/ Reddeer Testing Framework]'''  
** Reasons: Hudson can't tag and can't deploy to downloads
+
** JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
** John: It makes sense that the Hudson user can't write to the Repo
+
** Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
** Orion: Start from a shellscript (for tagging), then kick off a Hudson build partway through
+
*** Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
 +
*** API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
 +
** Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
 +
*** Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
 +
*** No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
 +
** Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/tutorials/rcp-testing-tool-rcptt-basic-tutorial/ RCPTT], it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
 +
** Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
 +
*** Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
 +
** Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
 +
** Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --&gt; Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
 +
*** Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
 +
*** '''AI Alex''' to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' to try installing Jubula until next week
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.
  
<hr/>
+
<hr>
'''November 30, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin, McQ
+
'''Jan 17, 2017''' - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ
* Andrew - '''Long Term Support'''. McQ - Overlap is in the build technology, can't be done for Juno (still busy with git + hudson), but happy to consume what's being developed
+
* Sergey: '''Merging platform.resources with platform.ui'''
** Foundation contracted with Sonatype (Igor) for moving to Tycho, but just analyzing the current build may take 4 months
+
** Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
** Linuxtools currently using a small ant wrapper which just calls the Platform build (generate a source tarball such that linux distros can consume Platform from source;
+
*** Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
* Martin - '''User Assistance Situation'''
+
** Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
** Chris G moved to Jazz - Rest of the IBM team completely maxed already, would fix critical security defects only
+
** Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
** Some work has been done by other IBM committers.. could release patches, but can't be responsive to fixes
+
** Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
** There's an opportunity for others in the Community to step in and set the direction
+
*** McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
** McQ: The only one most important issue at the moment is compliance with the new US Government accessibility regulations
+
** Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
** Newer Lucene; Help Search Stemming problems; nobody actively tracking the inbox
+
** Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even {{bug|509412}} was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
** John: Have been moving "committer-less" components into the general Platform component where 12+ committers have commit rights
+
** Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
** McQ: Platform project Zombies is OK, but having somebody step up would be better
+
** McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
** John: 3rd party dependencies... help has a few, eg upgrading to Jetty (managed by Chris before he left)
+
* Lars: '''Removing javax.xml'''
*** Lucene: Merged with SOLR, then 3 releases came out in the past 3 months, no Foundation CQ's in ... John interested in adopting Orion
+
** Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
*** Been in contact with Gunnar Wagenknecht who is also interested, but newer Lucene pulls in more dependencies than it needs
+
** Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
** Failing Search : would need an exact bug report where the search is failing, then McQ could get product teams excited
+
** Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
** John: Orion problem with older lucene is that it's leaking file handles ... less of a problem for Platform where we index only once
+
** McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
* John - {{bug|363948}} '''Eclipse 3.8 to 4.2 update'''
+
** Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
** Fix would involve changing metadata in p2 such that a 3.8 update wouldn't find 4.2 automatically, unless a specific update is requested
+
**'''AI Lars''' send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
** That fix leverages what Pascal from p2 considers a bug
+
* Dani: '''Project Updates'''
** Products could manage the problem by not adding the Juno repository.. but there's lots of things in Juno that people would want (eg egit, cdt, ...)
+
** Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
*** Fix that John thinks about would be on the product level
+
* McQ: '''UI Testing and Jubula'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''November 23, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew
+
'''Jan 10, 2017''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck
* Discussion of whether to turn on auto-tagging in maintenance builds. General agreement this is a good idea. We would not have a separate "integration" branch for maintenance streams.
+
* Dani: '''Platform Bits on Maven Central''' - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
* Some discussion of EclipseCon submissions. PC voting is underway and program should be decided in the next two weeks. There is a great program of submissions so far, and it will be tough to select the talks that will make the cut.
+
* Dani: '''Board Committer Rep Elections''' opening
 
+
* Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
<hr/>
+
* Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
'''October 26, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew, McQ
+
* Lars: '''Equinox move to Platform''' - no updates - '''AI Dani''' talk to Tom again
 
+
* McQ / AlexS: '''Jubula'''
* Approve Paul Webster as Platform UI project lead
+
** In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
** Committer vote [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-ui-dev/msg04980.html here].
+
** Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
** The PMC members unanimously approve this nomination
+
** Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
** John to send note to EMO
+
** AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
* Some discussion of the Eclipse Platform UI Git disaster - {{bug|361707}}
+
*** For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
** Currently any committer can delete everything from the repository permanently
+
*** Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
** The commit hook prevents committers from restoring commits made by others that they have in their local clone
+
*** UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
**
+
*** Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
 
+
*** Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
<hr/>
+
*** Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure ('''AI AlexS to check''')
'''October 12, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ
+
*** Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
* PMC upstaffing - looking for more Community input
+
**** Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
* egit bug backlog
+
*** '''AI AlexS''' send slides
* e4 builds
+
*** '''AI Dani + Lars''' propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
* p2 downloadable archived repos
+
*** '''AI AlexS''' check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started
* Moving to 4.x
+
** Community is moving ... any product that's not planned for EOL needs to move
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''October 5, 2011:''' - Dani, John, McQ
+
* Some discussion of removing CVS from the SDK ({{bug|359466}}). There is no strong argument for removing it, so it is hard to argue for disruption to user community. In the end we would like CVS to be removed and would like it to be just as easy to install any SCM into the platform. We would like to see the p2 discovery UI used to make it trivial to add SCM support into SDK (Help > Add Version Control > CVS). Once we had that in place we would be in a better position to remove CVS by default.
+
* We also discussed the Git line delimiter problems. Current recommendation:
+
** core.autocrlf=false - not honoured by JGit so this makes things worse
+
** Use Global workspace setting to use Unix line feeds by default
+
** Encourage projects to add a project-specific setting to use Unix line feeds
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''September 21, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Martin
+
* Dani: '''git''' - Mac / Linux using scripts, tooling not yet ready for Windows ... productivity lacks
+
** painful when working across multiple repositories ... problematic workflow for reviewing incoming changes
+
** John: egit could fetch automatically in the background (without merge)
+
* John: '''used platforms poll'''
+
** Results visible once voted: [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/platform-poll.php platform-poll.php]
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''September 14, 2011:''' - John, McQ, Dani, Martin
+
* Martin: '''PMC membership''' - still looking for people to ask after Steve and Jeff left
+
* John: '''Jetty 8''' - should be using Jetty from Eclipse (Jetty 7 ist stable, Jetty 8 is current) but API changes after Jetty 6
+
** eg standalone help - AI John to ping Chris G;
+
** No longer re-exporting Jetty API since 3.6 (deprecated api, introduced replacements)
+
** releng, would need Jetty at -1 if using current from train .. makes builds a bit more messy again
+
** check with Equinox
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''September 7, 2011:''' - John, McQ
+
* State of building Juno at eclipse.org: we are close but still some issues with the tests. Transition to Git halted our progress on this. Once the Git migration is complete, we should just make the switch over and live with the pain of some failing tests. Component teams will need to help with diagnosing problems with their tests.
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''August 31, 2011:''' - Dani, John
+
 
+
* We need to pull the new ICU4J out of maintenance release because the fix didn't pass review in time. We will defer to Indigo SR2
+
* Some discussion of the treatment of tags in Git vs CVS. Committers need to be aware they can't checkout the contents of a particular build into their workspace all at once.
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''August 24, 2011:''' - Dani, John
+
* EGit is far behind on level of polish, usability, robustness, conforming to UI guidelines, etc. We may need to make contributions to avoid it hurting productivity
+
* Proposed workflow changes in bugzilla 4.0: {{bug|337245}}. Proposing removing NEW, ASSIGNED and CLOSED states which would lose valuable information for us.
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''August 10, 2011:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
* Dani / Martin - '''Debug Flexible Hierarchy "provisional.api" namespace'''
+
** Cannot be moved into an "API" namespace without breaking external non-SDK clients since types are leaked from internal packages
+
** Q1: Move framework to a place outside Debug?
+
** Q2: Declare "internal" packages as API? - API Tools won't be usable
+
** McQ: Is it really impossible to add new API in parallel while keeping the old one in place for now?
+
*** Issues: (1) Performance, (2) bugs due to delegating, (3) is it worth doing that work? CDT already marked x-friends - Debug could offer the same for other clients.
+
** McQ: Do we anticipate a huge Community out there just waiting for stuff to become full API? Then it's probably worth it...
+
*** But at this point any potential consumers already consume, so it's likely not worth the pain of renaming
+
*** Dani's suggestion: Go into a separate bundle and re-export, such that clients don't need debug
+
** John: Unless packages were intended to be API from the beginning, it's likely not API quality (that's likely also why Boris didn't want it in Jface)
+
** Martin: Would really want to see namespace refactored... quality standards..
+
** John: Had the experience in p2, it was much more than just package renaming
+
*** Very painful for user community, but in the end produced a much better results (but p2 was very young at that time)
+
** McQ: Can we provide backward compatible versions in parallel to the new namespace? We CANNOT break consumers.
+
*** Renaming only makes sense if mirroring/proxying is possible.
+
*** Lots of consumers in the old form, how many new consumers would we gain in the new form?
+
** Martin: Create a fork / clone on the UI side for new consumers, as real API?
+
*** McQ: Only makes sense if there's a community just waiting to pick this up.
+
*** Dani: Debug itself could not move to the new framework without breaking clients ... so we'd not have any clients inside the SDK
+
** McQ: It's non-trivial work, and before starting it we'd need to verify there's consumers for it
+
** Learnings from the past: Not keep stuff in provisional for so long any more
+
** Resolution: '''Pawel to find consumers for a refactored new bundle, then decide if / how to do the work'''
+
* Dani: '''Java 7 - Segfault due to loop optimizations''' ([http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/08/java7-hotspot details])
+
** Occurs a lot inside Apache Lucene, how to communicate that?
+
** McQ: send to eclipse-dev and cross-project
+
** Oracle aware of the issue - working on an early refresh, workaround exists (disable loop optimizations via -XX:-UseLoopPredicate)
+
** Another JIT bug was fixed by Oracle before GA because we reported it
+
** AI Dani '''Talk to Oracle when an update can be expected, soon send a message to eclipse-dev / cross-project'''
+
* Vacation notices:
+
** Martin: away from August 14 to September 1
+
** McQ: away from August 22 to September 5
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''August 3, 2011:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
+
* Dani - successfully moved Java 7 support to 3.7.1, 3.8, 4.1.1 and 4.2 streams
+
 
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''July 27, 2011:''' - Dani, John, McQ
+
* Discussed how many versions back PDE should support development on. Historically we used N-2 but currently it is N-7. The layers of compatibility are starting to become hard to manage. We agreed dropping support for versions prior to 3.6 is ok if there is a benefit in doing so (cleans up PDE, makes the situation less confusing for end user, etc). However PDE must handle existing plugins with old version numbers in the plugin.xml (possibly with a warning and a quick fix to update/remove the number).
+
* We have some rough days ahead: first release train milestone on 4.x, ongoing build pain from Git migration, merge of Java 7 into mainline, and lots of people on holidays. Hold onto your hats!
+
 
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''July 20, 2011:''' - Dani, Martin, John, Jeff
+
* Dani - '''p2 Installer {{bug|317785}}''' affects Java 7 users - when they want to update it looks like they are dead
+
** Regression test only fails once every 100 times .. might be more often in the wild
+
** Might need some note on the download page (clickthrough) - people dont read the readme
+
* John - '''git migration''' - parts from git / parts from CVS isn't that bad for now
+
 
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''July 13, 2011:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
+
* Want more Community involvement in the Eclipse PMC - "outside representation" in addition to companies with a commercial interest
+
* nice Java 7 webcast last week - Mike Milinkovich mentions our Eclipse Java 7 Support (BETA)
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''July 6, 2011:''' - John, Dani, Martin
+
* Dani - on track with Java 7 work; Oracle interested in having good Eclipse support
+
* git migration - Platform UI likely going to move this week
+
** Paul has a tool for gathering build notes from git (currently a commandline script)
+
 
+
<hr id="20110615"/>
+
'''June 15, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Jeff
+
* John - '''git migration''': should egit be part of the SDK ?
+
** Build-time circular dependencies. Keep SDK small, but make it a very simple and obvious step to obtain egit.
+
** It's already easy to update - milestone to mileston SDK update is a single step for SDK + egit.
+
* John - '''git migration''' and the mapfiles
+
** In orion, just tag HEAD of the build branch
+
** Dani: need to make sure that build notes can still be created
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''June 1, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani
+
* Some discussion of proposed Eclipse Foundation security policy
+
* We still want to see the disclosure time-frame being 3 months after the release containing the fix. Not all of our consumer community has the build technology or expertise to apply source patches to their products. Making sure the fix is in a maintenance release is the only practical way for some people to consume fixes
+
* It would be nice for critical security fixes to appear in the simultaneous release repository even after the SR2 time period. p2 would need some small amount of work to be able to flag critical/security patches and automatically notify the user about them being available. Nobody has signed up to do this work.
+
* Some discussion of Git migration. There is no need to move everything at once since our build can handle homogeneous inputs from both CVS and Git. One possibility is migrating Equinox as a first step. The most complicated piece is migrating the repository containing the builder itself. We will need to decide on where map files and documentation go: likely some kind of "common" repository for Eclipse TLP.
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''May 25, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
* Missing CQ's for old legacy stuff in old update sites / repos
+
** No problem for ZIP's (we can move to archive)
+
** OK with removing some legacy old stuff... How many years back to keep old stuff?
+
* Java 7 and 3.7.1
+
** Mike M OK with including in 3.7.1 (when it's stable enough)
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''May 4, 2011:''' - Jeff, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
 
+
* RC1 test pass went well overall
+
* Investigating an SWT blocker preventing checkbox tables from working
+
* There is a problem with the Ant mail task with Ant 1.8. Ant mail requires an optional extra jar to be added. In Ant 1.7 this didn't cause build to fail, but in Ant 1.8 it does. Our conclusion was to document in the migration guide but take no other action.
+
* Git migration:
+
** Kim and DJ are investigating migration of the build to Git. Making progress but don't have a full build working yet
+
** We should consider summer 2011 for migration. For those teams with forked code between 3.x/4.x, they are finding it difficult to keep fixes in sync and potentially git can help with that.
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''April 27, 2011:''' - Jeff, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
* Dani '''still 100 bugs tagged 3.7''' - need to remind in the archcall to properly tag target milestones
+
* John '''EDL for Examples'''
+
** Value of examples is they're there to be used - there's no business value in holding on to IP via Copyright so EDL seems right
+
** Re-licensing existing examples is difficult (eg SWT examples); but new examples should go under EDL
+
** Including examples in distributed features must take care of fixing abouts
+
* John '''3.7 plan final update''': all plan items committed or deferred; update to RH6
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''April 20, 2011:''' - Jeff, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
* Jeff,Martin '''Builds at Eclipse''' - Work ongoing. IBM Mac has been donated. Mac testing has problems with some weird vnc bug
+
** Martin - could kick a 3.6.2+ build and artifacts OK, but confused by lots of warning messages. Kim responded immediately, but can this be made "more official" ?
+
** Public Builds - get the engineering underpinnings in place, then polish afterwards
+
** Won't get a lot better in 3.7 but could make it a plan item for 3.8
+
** John agrees that improving the warning messages to be more informative is a good thing - Kim's very helpful
+
* Dani '''Polish Bug to be prioritized''': {{bug|342648}} In SWT on Linux, RTL mode, Tree.getItem(Point) gives invalid result.
+
** Regression ?
+
** McQ: Every GTK version needs work - maybe it's specific to a new GTK; might be more than a P2
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''April 13, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani, Jeff
+
* John: reminder to review proposed project charter update
+
* Freeze plan for Indigo is ready
+
* Reviewed new polish items
+
* Investigating some 4.1 compatibility problems, possibly related to EMF changes
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''March 30, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani
+
* Discussed and clarified the API approval guidelines. Will be announced in the arch call.
+
* Dani - Java 7 deferred from 3.7. GA planned together with 3.7.1.
+
** John: is feature work which might need review
+
* John - we need to prepare the Git migration
+
** John to ask DJ to do investigations
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''March 23, 2011:''' - McQ, Dani
+
* Prioritized the [[Polish3.7]] list. This is a recurring task for the next few weeks.
+
* Discussed and agreed on API change approval process, see [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg01368.html PMC mailing list note].
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''March 9, 2011:''' - John, McQ
+
 
+
* Ongoing discussion of direction for 2012 release train. Will continue discussion in email to ensure all PMC members are involved.
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''March 2, 2011:'''
+
* McQ - Migrating to 4.x. Don't be disruptive when there is no need to. Want to avoid migration pain.
+
** New feature work will be in 4.x, but as long as there are committers working on 3.x it will stay alive
+
** Make sure that quality keeps up: Releng / Build, make long-term committers continue reviewing contributions
+
** Problem with 4.x is just the bugs (impeding productivity), it's not anything architectural
+
** '''Convene again next week and come up with a consistent message''', AI McQ get hold of Jeff for a statement
+
* John - '''3.6.2+ builds''' set up on Hudson now
+
** Kim's {{bug|338557}} Job's mostly ready, Martin is the first tester. Should inform the Community once things go smoothly
+
** Updating version numbers like going to a virtual never-existing "3.6.3" release in order to give a clear and consistent message
+
** Dani has an (internal) document - Martin: interested for TM and CDT projects - '''AI Dani''' send Doc to Martin for for meeting notes
+
** Always updating the micro by one only ... so if bundle was not updated in Helios SR1 or SR2, it should go .1 in 3.6.2+
+
 
+
'''February 23, 2011:'''
+
* Martin - '''3.6.2+ M-Builds post 3.6.2''' - needed for adopters to get 3.6.2+ bundles signed; on demand only? If scheduled, how often?
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''February 16, 2011:'''
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''February 9, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
* Dani - '''Builder bug''':  Theoretically, the builder bug can cause bad binaries shipped from Eclipse.org
+
** But switching the builder now could have other consequences. Most people likely use the 3.6.0 or 3.6.1 builder
+
** Platform uses the 3.6.1 builder. Bug appeared in 3.6.0
+
** McQ thinks we should recommend using the new builder - John: can never know whether a problematic code construct is there or not
+
** Provide a patched version of the 3.6.1 basebuilder as an option for people to use - '''AI John''' ask Kim to re-produce a new basebuilder, then respin RC4
+
* McQ - '''Builds at Eclipse.org'''
+
** IBM Ottawa consolidating 7 offices into 2, plan to not have a build lab
+
** Kim still frustrated with Foundation facilities; McQ talked to people both inside IBM and the Foundation
+
 
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
'''February 2, 2011:''' - Canceled (no topics)
+
<hr/>
+
 
+
'''January 26, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Martin,
+
* Dani: {{bug|330534}} '''ObjectTeams Contribution''' - JDT might allow using their namespace as an exception, couple p2 bugs pending
+
** If the p2 solution cannot be done, OT/J will need to remain off the train
+
* Martin: Concerned about '''Eclipse 3.x quality''', many regressions and not being addressed
+
** {{bug|320329}} ThreadJob#waitForRun can spin when blockingJob is not RUNNING
+
*** '''Platform Runtime: Regression''' introduced in 3.6, can have severe Performance impact, reported 10-Jul, commenters unsure about approach to fix
+
*** A buggy contribution was accepted, and then the contributor left
+
*** John spent a lot of time.. there was a fix that didn't work
+
*** Dani: Could the contribution be pulled out? - No because it's new API (yield())
+
*** Contributor was quite good originally but then just switched teams and was no longer available
+
*** The new testcase from Markus Schorn might help narrowing down the case quickly
+
** {{bug|335153}} Regression: p2 downloads are much slower due to picking remote artifacts even when a local file: URL is available
+
*** '''p2: Regression''' introduced in 3.6, reported 24-Jan, testcase + patch attached, response pending
+
** {{bug|332840}} Wrong error about API change (Regression; works with 3.7M3)
+
*** '''API Tooling: Regression''' introduced in 3.7M4, reported 17-Dec, Olivier:  "I'll take a look" but no response since
+
** {{bug|332838}} Bogus potential null pointer access warning (regression; works with 3.6)
+
*** '''JDT: Regression''' introduced in 3.7M4, reported 17-Dec, Ayushman: "I'll investigate" but no response since
+
** {{bug|332507}} [regression] incomplete build path reported on o.e.rse.subsystem.shells.local
+
*** '''PDE UI: Regression''' introduced in 3.7M4, reported 14-Dec, initial traffic but no followup since 16-Dec
+
** {{bug|335466}} Regression: category.xml processing fails when "name" contains special chars
+
*** Just detected recently
+
** {{bug|313899}} [Progress] Every user-job causes a busy cursor to be shown for a minimum of 250ms
+
*** '''Platform UI''': Patch provided on 21-May, no response whatsoever from Platform UI
+
** John: There had been a fair bit of turnover, new committers getting up to speed ... having less experienced people is a fact
+
*** Identifying key bugs in the big bug database takes a lot of experience
+
** Dani: M5 is the Major feature freeze, so new feature / API work has highest priority ... so quality drop is somewhat expected in M5
+
** Even for regressions... if the regression is less critical than new bugs, it goes behind
+
** '''RESOLUTION:''' Make the important bugs visible to the component leads or PMC. It's natural that we sometimes need to ping on a bug. M5 is a problematic time.
+
* John: {{bug|335374}} '''Redhat 6 as a Reference Platform'''
+
** SWT team doing some final testing, then will put only RH6 on the Ref Platform list
+
* John: '''OpenJDK as a Reference Platform''' - Oracle is interested and might contribute testing
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
''' January 19, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Jeff, Dani, Martin
+
* Jeff will be unavailable for meeting next 6-7 weeks
+
* John: How do we interpret "under the direction of the PMC" in [http://www.eclipse.org/legal/EclipseLegalProcessPoster.pdf Eclipse legal process]?
+
** McQ: Not about approval, but about PMC being aware
+
** Jeff: Goal is to indicate "Working with an Eclipse mindset", ie in close collaboration with a committer ... contributor must be aware of IP due diligence guidelines from the beginning of evolution of the code. We want to avoid introducing IP leaks by accepting legacy code that was written before assuming an Eclipse mindset.
+
** McQ: This is about understanding the direction of Eclipse as a whole. Request a PMC +1 on the bug as work is being started. PMC should work with committer to ensure that contributor has been instructed about IP rules.
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
''' January 12, 2011:''' -
+
 
+
<hr/>
+
''' January 5, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Jeff, Martin
+
* Dani: Component Lead progress? - Portal still doesn't have the correct list of components
+
<hr/>
+
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2016 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2016]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Revision as of 12:10, 21 March 2017

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

Mar 21, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Dirk Fauth Requests on eclipse-pmc
    • Alex agrees with Dani
    • Where does the "0.x version before graduation" requirement come from? - Development Process, but maybe didn't apply to plugin versions
    • Dani thinks that forcing a 0.x version causes forced breakage once something goes API thus doesn't make much sense
  • Dani: Szymon Ptasiewicz

Mar 14, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Java 9 readiness - see cross-project-issues-dev
    • Step 1: For testing, just download a Java 9 beta JVM, add the module -- all testing is possible from commandline
      • Platform team has an install, but Mike was concerned about legal issues - a bug is open to allow all simrel access
    • Step 2: Running the JDeps tools as per the Java 9 Readiness wiki can show violations
      • Can even run with Java 8, Dani ran it on simrel, it's looking mostly good, only Orbit shows violations
      • Platform team has some scripts; for Hudson there's even a Mojo, but it aborts when it finds a violation.
    • Step 3: Reflection - Will only figure out when knowing the code or testing
    • All these 3 tests can be done without the Java 9 patch in PDE. Only for debugging, one needs to self-host.
      • This can be done either with Ed's Oomph support, or via the Marketplace
    • Platform team is still negotiating options for better support with Oracle
  • Dani: JUnit 5 considers cutting down features for aligning with Oxygen
    • Decision to align, contributing support to Oxygen Update 1 in September
  • Dani: 2 Platform Issues in M6
    • platform.ui reexports everything including jface - lower bundles not updated - JDT may fail if installed (fixed for M7)
    • major version uprev: interface not marked as @noimplement; reverting the version, people who loaded Friday's M6 would never get any updates any more; decision to stick to the version uprev, since the respective bundle is not used a lot
      • In general, accidental major version uprev should be reverted because the error would stay around for long and might break existing binary bundles who can't be fixed any more
      • In this case, it was OK to keep since the bundle isn't used much
  • Alex: Generic Editor and Testing
    • Looking very good already - only 1/3 of the code needed for getting the same feature set as with existing methods for creating editors
    • Looking for features to add missing documentation (workflows, use-cases like converting existing editors): End goal is to provide everything that the JDT Editor is providing
    • Dani: Likes replacement of pages on multipage editors, and some new editors; would not consider replacing the JDT editor
    • In the Platform.ISV docs bundle, there should be a section for "how to write your own editor"

Mar 7, 2017 - Dani, Martin, Alex, Sergey, Lars

  • Dani: 4.6.3 Updates - Looking good, Equinox bugs moved out by Tom
  • Dani: 4.7M7 Update - Infrastructure issues but testing looks OK (except Mac which is not built yet)
  • Dani: Java 9 / Planning Council Update - Postponing Oxygen was discussed but denied; late July update being considered
  • Lars: Platform.Resources Leadership after Sergey Leaving
    • Dani pinged Szymon, will continue discussion when we hear back; merging with platform.ui is one option
    • Sergey: The "Team" and "Resources/Filesystem" parts could be considered separately. Consider merging Team into UI.
    • Alex: One top Platform Project would make sense now...
    • Dani: reconsider when McQ is back. In the past, SWT was seen as separate.
    • Dani: Releng needs to be separate and protected because Releng committers can also change Hudson jobs, shut down servers etc where no history is kept

Feb 28, 2017 - Sergey, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Alex: Short update on Neon.3
    • 2 jdt.core bugs asking for PMC approval - regressions compared to Neon.2, approved
    • PPC rebuild is in, so looking good
  • Sergey will leave Eclipse work after end of March
  • Martin: RCPTT / Reddeer / Testing
    • Reddeer: No tests that check Platform only - everything is on higher level today (WTP, server connectors etc)
    • Runs on Neon.2 right now inside RH - the infrastructure isn't built for consuming daily builds
    • Would take some effort reducing to Platform only - no time for this in the RH team at the moment
    • AI Martin will look at integrating RCPTT as time permits; would like bug 505826 resolved ideally
  • McQ will be out next 2 weeks

Feb 21, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars, Sergey

  • Lars: bug 512273 Allow any committer to retrigger Gerrit validation, and bug 512319 allow rebase
    • Agreement to allow retrigger for anyone, but rebase should be done by committers working on a contribution
    • Dani: Not clear where to retrigger (Sergey: it's discoverable once permission is there)
    • AI Lars follow up on the bug
  • Martin: UI Testing
    • RCPTT is completely Open Source; commercial server could be used for load balancing tests but this is not necessary
    • Alex: Interested in Reddeer for upstreaming tests that already exist at RH; good reports about stability and scalability at RH
    • When we decide which way we go, we need a plan who's doing the work (create the tests). Maintenance would depend on their structure.
    • Some Reddeer tests already upstreamed with WTP and Linuxtools
    • Lars: Where would the tests live? - In a common project accessible to all, or with the component they test ?
      • Lars, Dani: Since these are functional end-to-end, should live in their own repository, accessible by all committers.
    • AI Martin follow-up with Jubula. Try RCPTT on Windows and Linux. Give feedback till next week.
    • AI Alex share list of Reddeer tests existing at RH
    • AI Lars play with the Reddeer API
  • Dani: Update on PPC drop 32-bit, build 64-bit both le and be on RH VMs bug 512224
    • Alex: ppc64 currently built on Fedora 25; could build on REL7 if foundation requests a machine from RH Brno Farm AI Alex and Dani ask Denis
  • Dani: Neon.3 RC3 please keep an eye on builds
  • Dani: Away this Friday afternoon and whole next week

Feb 15, 2017


Feb 8, 2017 - Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: bug 509412 - Adopt newer JSch for Platform 4.6.3
    • Alex is fully consumed with Webkit work for Oxygen
    • Need to move target platform to the latest Orbit in order to pick up the new JSch; that might cause other changes, since Orbit retention policy keeps only one version
    • Dani: Cherry-pick the new JSch recipe to the Orbit Maintenance Branch ?
    • Martin: Looks like in the past, new Orbit R-Builds were made for Maintenance ... but with the move of Orbit to git, it is unclear how branch builds for Neon.x would be made
  • Dani: Update on RT PMC (Equinox) coming to Platform
    • Tom Watson is in favor, reached out to Wayne for process
    • Potentially move entire IP log, but IP team is currently busy with CQs for Oxygen
  • Dani: Finally Unblocked on Java Language Server
    • Dirk from Microsoft signed the committer agreement
  • Dani: Scenarios for UI Testing
    • Initial Scenario from the PMC Notes can already be used; once that works, could extend to more
  • Dani: Sign Up for Security Rep
    • See Wayne's message to PMCs requesting PMC attendance
    • John Arthorne used to be the Security Rep;
    • Tasks: Follow the security mailing list; currently low volume but might get higher with IoT getting up speed
    • RESOLUTION: Alex agrees to sign up since already following security issues
  • Dani+Alex: libswt-gtk3 natives for PPC
    • Alex: Trying to limit the list of supported GTK versions to maximum 2; now at the latest GTK2 version
    • Currently, only Intel builds do both GTK2 and GTK3; PowerPC only does GTK2; the current hardware is unable to install REL7
    • Would prefer building at the Foundation over using custom company hardware; cost of hardware is around 50K
    • Primary Platforms should be built at the Foundation, secondary builds can be contributed ... should Linux-PPC be considered primary ?
    • Alex could easily provide a Fedora Platform, but it would be much newer than anything else that's around; ARM32 and ARM64 builds are already provided by Fedora
    • If somebody (IBM) needs an older version like CentOS, it would need to be provided by such adopters
    • AI Dani+McQ find out on priority of Linux-PPC (32bit, 64bit)
  • Alex: Update on Reddeer Testing Framework
    • A new version is being written, that no longer uses SWTBot underneath; there's a plan making this an Eclipse project
    • Engineers claim that after the rewrite it's a lot more stable recognizing widgets than on top of SWTBot
    • Martin has been looking at RCPTT which looks promising initially (easy to record tests) but unclear how stable such tests would be.
    • (call had to be closed at this point)

Feb 1, 2017 - cancelled


Jan 24, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: New Jetty Version - Alex will look at it after FOSDEM (Feb 7)
  • Dani: javax.xml - Plan to announce removal from the feature on cross-project for M6
    • Cannot remove from the compile prerequisites, because plugins still on Java 5 need it
  • Alex: Reddeer Testing Framework
    • JBoss Tools uses Reddeer for overall user story validation
    • Lars: Why wasn't the framework added to SWTBot? -
      • Reddeer is not a framework, it's meant as a test harness library - smaller scope than SWTBot or Jubula
      • API Stability across multiple Eclipse versions is out of scope, thus created outside Eclipse for now
    • Martin: Any improvements in object recognition compared to plain SWTBot?
      • Reddeer tries to make use of the best mechanisms from SWTBot for object recognition (Finder, or callbots). That saves users from making newbie mistakes in SWTBot, but apart from that it's no better
      • No solution for external (non-Eclipse) dialogs ... that's not doable in SWT
    • Lars: EclipseSource people have been talking about RCPTT, it might be able to deal with native tooltips etc
    • Dani and Lars think Jubula is too heaviweight; might work for Integration Builds, but not for individual developer's builds. Local setup must be really easy. Also, setup looks non-trivial, needs resources to work on ... and, doesn't seem to add much benefit over SWTBot (assuming that Jubula agent doesn't hook into native libs like win32, Cocoa or GTK).
      • Alex: Especially integration in Maven may be hard.
    • Alex: Main limitation is that we don't have resources to actually create tests. Suggest reaching out for help asking people who would actually create tests ... then use whatever framework that people would like to use.
    • Dani and Lars won't be able to come up with a workflow scenario before end of next week --> Alex will come up with an idea since he has meetings on Monday.
      • Dani: Launch Eclipse, choose a workspace, open the package explorer, create a Java project (helloworld). Expand later, maybe into quick assist.
      • AI Alex to demo Reddeer in 2 weeks
      • AI Martin to try installing Jubula until next week
      • AI Martin ping Sergey re: asking for help on Platform/Resources.

Jan 17, 2017 - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin, McQ

  • Sergey: Merging platform.resources with platform.ui
    • Seems that more contributions to platform.resources are made by platform.ui committers, than others. Only 2 platform.resources committers seem active (and those two are actually platform.ui committers as well)
      • Opening up to Platform UI would encourage more people to actually contribute to resources. Strive for shared access on components that are interrelated
    • Dani: Merging into platform.ui would mean making Dani and Lars the leaders for signoff - that causes too much burden
    • Sergey: Platform/Team has actually more synergy with Platform/UI than resources
    • Alex: For gcc for example, there is a notion of "maintainers" per git repo for signoffs - that's independent of leadership or commit rights
      • McQ: Not sure how adding another role would simplify things ?
    • Sergey: The problem for signoffs is not is much the volume of commits, but the volume of failing tests
    • Alex: The manpower of Platform Resources is so low by now that even bug 509412 was not being filed ... existing committers do not really seem to "own" the project any more, this is an indication for merging
    • Martin: Can't see how merging into a bigger entity would resolve the "ownership" problem. Perhaps make interested contributors Platform/Resources committers instead, and see how to resolve the ownership issue on the smaller scope ?
    • McQ: Propose applying the recent simplification of gaining commit rights (for "known" committers)
  • Lars: Removing javax.xml
    • Was introduced only for very old JRE's , it is part of the JRE now
    • Martin: Might cause a uses constraint issue since not exporting the package with version any more, see http://njbartlett.name/2011/09/02/uses-constraints.html
    • Lars: With javax.annotation, that was solved with smart reexporting
    • McQ: OK with removal when we can confirm we're not breaking things
    • Dani: Whoever requested removal should double-check whether the API is the same.
    • AI Lars send a note to Tom Watson as the submitter.
  • Dani: Project Updates
    • Deadlines upcoming for CQs and APIs - see Endgame Plan, please provide feedback
  • McQ: UI Testing and Jubula

Jan 10, 2017 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex, Sergey, McQ - Special Guest: Alex Schladebeck

  • Dani: Platform Bits on Maven Central - Now available thanks to Stephan Herrmann
  • Dani: Board Committer Rep Elections opening
  • Dani: After David Williams' move, Wayne is looking for a Planning Council Chair; Fred Gurr has taken over Simrel Releng
  • Dani: objenesis (Mockito / Easymock dependency) and Java9 - will wait for how upstream is planning to address issues
  • Lars: Equinox move to Platform - no updates - AI Dani talk to Tom again
  • McQ / AlexS: Jubula
    • In the past, with lots of full-time Platform committers, sniff tests just happened automatically giving great confidence. Now, with more part-time work happening, there is more need for end-to-end workflow test automation to give quality confidence
    • Martin: On top of low-level JUnit tests, want at least very few highlevel end-to-end test to avoid "Eclipse looking silly". Need UI tests that are really stable (avoid random failures)
    • Dani: On EGit SWTBot tests, too many libraries to install, how to run on Gerrit HIPP slaves
    • AlexS: Original Jubula goal was to allow non-programmers write tests. Beginning 2015, the client API (for controlling the SUT) was separated from the front-end, was separated from the ITE. This allows writing UI tests programmatically, and avoids the need for a database.
      • For identifying components/actions to write tests, officially an object mapping needs to be done in the front-end (ITE, integrated test environment). But there may be a shortcut available for getting object IDs
      • Compared to SWTBot, Jubula is 90% blackbox (code highlevel actions rather than things like calling setText())
      • UI Tests typically take longer than unittests by definition (due to setup, teardown, ...), so might not be applicable for Gerrit triggers
      • Dani: Would like to run a first test on CentOS first, as part of the integration tests
      • Lars: Robustness of the tests? - SWT on Mac is problematic, but Linux and Windows should be OK.
      • Martin: Dependencies? - Around 5MB Libs, plus the agent needs to be installed (around 100MB). Once that is there, tests are stand-alone on a laptop. There might also be an "embedded agent" but not sure (AI AlexS to check)
      • Getting a first test up and running ? - Maybe around 1 week, depends on what to do ?
        • Lars: Would like something for quick access. Martin would something for "fresh download" (fresh config area + workspace) maybe combined with quick access.
      • AI AlexS send slides
      • AI Dani + Lars propose scenarios. Check possible owners of the initiative on Platform/UI side
      • AI AlexS check possible PlatformUI Contributors from Jubula team to get started

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