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= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
−
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
−
'''February 29, 2012:''' - Dani, McQ, John, Martin, Andrew
+
 
−
* John: '''Orion won a Black Duck Award'''
+
'''Dec 6, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* Dani: '''Gerrit Move'''
+
* McQ talked to Tom Watson about Equinox moving to Platform - Tom wants to discuss with the RT PMC
−
** John: Important information needs to stay in Bugzilla ... don't pull from outside git exclusively
+
* Alex: '''Update on Wayland'''
−
* Andrew: '''Platform Defect Contest'''
+
** Fedora 25 shipping with Wayland by default
−
** McQ concern: Lots of duplicate bugs would take focus away from the team
+
** Wayland back-end for SWT is a patch in progress, some events not delivered, others incorrectly
−
** Martin: Could encourage triage as part of the contest, and only count good/new bugs
+
** Hoping to be in good shape by M5.
−
** John: Some low-hanging fruit bugs in Platform UI but not necessarily in 4.x ("helpwanted")
+
** Until then, Gnome can be started on X11 with additional packages installed.
−
** John: Re-introduce the "greatbug" keyword ?
+
** If Wayland is needed, the XWayland compatibility layer does work although slow (some drawing can be seen)
−
*** A greatbug is relevant, new, good description that helps understanding/finding the issue; ideally with a patch.
+
** Some rewrite in the Launcher will be needed due to the security model - each window is isolated
−
*** Resolution: '''AI John''' send note to Mike
+
* Dani: '''How we test milestones''' - people putting in features sometimes don't seem to participate in the milestone week
−
* John: '''PDE API Moved'''
+
** McQ: Agrees that a good deal of manual testing is needed to cover flows that developers actually use
−
** Some internal, provisional API was migrated to full API in this release
+
** Alex: If milestone week overlaps with other duties (outside Platform) those other duties often take precedence
−
** Someone from STP (Dimitar?) Asked adding back the provisional API such that they could support 2 versions of Eclipse with one codebase
+
** Test automation doesn't help for new features that add UI
−
** McQ: Would have helped them 4 years ago .. but at the moment don't have enough people
+
** Sergey distributes I-Builds so regressions are often found early - but there's no firm data on quality. Alex also distributes / uses I-Builds.
−
*** McQ: Question how pervasive their use of the old API is ... how much Reflection would they need to put int
+
** McQ thinks that some confidence in quality is needed, before I-builds are given out
−
*** One resolution could be OK but only if they provide all the patches
+
** Dani: Dogfooding helps a lot more than test plans.
 +
** ''To be discussed next week when there are more people on the call''
 +
* 4.6.2 looking good; M4 test pass today for releasing on Friday
 +
* Oxygen plan hasn't seen comments, so will only put Java 9 updates in there
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''February 22, 2012:''' - Dani, McQ, John, Andrew
+
'''Nov 29, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin
−
* Repeat of PDE build discussion from last week. We decided to nominate John Arthorne as a committer so we at least have someone to accept community patches. We will revisit after Juno and perhaps do a larger restructuring
+
* Sergey: '''Understaffed Projects Announcement''' - should it be sent to a wider audience?
−
* Communication with eGit: We have written some patches for eGit that have been growing stale. Dani will review the patches, and then send an email to eGit lead asking if there is a particular reason for not accepting them. If there is no problem with the patches we will track down an eGit committer to release them.
+
** Was sent to eclipse-dev with cc: eclipse-pmc
−
* Andrew asked about process for approving CQs:
+
** Dani suggest checking the mailing list archives or via RSS eg [https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-dev eclipse-dev mailing list home]
−
** Any PMC member can feel free to approve CQs
+
** '''AI Dani''': send Sergey some links
−
** New versions of existing third party libraries are a no-brainer, typically just +1 right away
+
* Martin: Is it clear enough what contributors could do if they feel not being heard?
−
** For new third party libraries we may need a PMC discussion about why the library is needed, what feature it will live in, etc
+
** There is a forum and developer mailing lists, so for the Eclipse project we are probably good
−
** For code contributions just make sure the legal process has been followed and then +1. We generally trust the judgement of the committer who will process the contribution.
+
** Dani: The README.txt on top of the repo looks like a very good place for such kind of information
 +
** '''AI Martin''' review a couple READMEs and then make suggestions on the eclipse-pmc mailing list
 +
* Dani: RC4 - no build currently planned will push RC3. There's also Oxygen M4 next week.
 +
** Need to move out some planned bugzilla's targeted M4 (platform.ui: Lars to help, core: Sergey)
 +
** JDT UI is tight since Noopur is on vacation and Markus is very busy with Java 9 and HiDPI work
 +
* New process in place for the IP Log, IP log for Neon Update 2 (4.6.2) got approved today; Review is scheduled and ends on Dec.21
 +
* JDT Language Server: Still some blockers on the IP Work (hackathon contributions)
 +
* '''AI All''' Plan Update for Oxygen M4 {{bug|499768}}; Dani will update the Java 9 info
 +
* Lars: '''Approvals for Equinox'''
 +
** RT PMC don't have meetings or a process in place for approvals
 +
** They think that the Eclipse PMC is in a better position to approve Equinox
 +
** But why is Equinox on the RT PMC after all, does that still make sense? After all builds are done by Eclipse.
 +
** '''AI Dani''' discuss with Tom
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''February 15, 2012:''' - Dani, McQ, John
+
'''Nov 22, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Sergey, Alex, McQ (Regrets: Lars - travelling)
−
* Some discussion of what to do with PDE Build, which lacks committers. PDE as a whole has barely enough committers to be a functioning project, so maybe we should be looking at a larger restructuring after
+
* McQ: Simplify adding committers to understaffed projects
−
Juno rather than one piece at a time. We lacked quorum to make a decision so we will defer discussion to another week.
+
** '''AI Sergey''' final Polish on Lars' proposal + suggestions as discussed
−
 
+
* Martin: {{bug|498116}} download servers are hosed every Tuesday
 +
** PMC agrees to trying a fix for Neon.2 - this kind of issues is important (Android also ran into this kind of issue 2 years ago)
 +
** Dani: we can encourage them to fix it, but EPP and Equinox are not governed by our PMC
 +
* Dani: '''Neon.3 Planning'''
 +
* Dani: '''FEEP Discussions''' on the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-feep-stakeholders eclipse.org-feep-stakeholders] mailing list
 +
** Voting will be more open this time
 +
* Dani: '''IP Log for Neon.2''' - Endgame looking good, no planned fixes known at this time, but if there's a fix for {{bug|498116}}, we will consume it
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''February 8, 2012:''' - Dani, Martin, Andrew, McQ
+
'''Nov 15, 2016''' - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Martin, Lars, McQ
−
* Andrew: Eclipse stand at '''FOSDEM in Brussles'''
+
* Dani: Neon.2 Release Review went out, IP Log will come early Dec.
−
** Lots of people just dropped by to say hi and thanks
+
* Dani: RC2 build tomorrow + test pass on Wed - last build before PMC approval is required
−
** Mike Milinkovich was showing off Orion; Gunnar and Andrew did others (Web, EclipseRT, C/C++)
+
* Dani: Bugzilla 4.6.3 milestone created - currently too many bugs targeted 4.6.2, suggest moving out except if there's a patch attached
−
* McQ: '''4.2 Quality''' ... current list of defects looks manageable to tick all off .. any messaging we want to do ?
+
* Alex: '''Lucene''' - Using Lucene 6 for Platform.UI Indexing, prebuilt indexes of doc bundles need updating
 +
** Prebuilt indexes of older versions will not be used, the impact is just a slowdown on first startup of help
 +
** Old-version prebuilt indexes will trigger an entry in the errorlog, so projects will know
 +
** Q: How much should we push for having a single Lucene in the Release Train? (In Mars we had two)
 +
*** Problem: Moving to Lucene 6 is real porting effort, and it is not possible to be backward compatible
 +
*** EGit or XText, who want to support multiple Eclipse versions, may be allowed to bind against other Lucene by exception; but Planning Council message should be to favor the latest by default
 +
** Martin: Help Search Result Quality -- Was often critisized due to bad analyzers -- has it improved ?
 +
*** Alex: Lucene 6 has apparently improved things, but team has not explicitly tested these cases
 +
* All: '''Understaffed Projects Discussion'''
 +
** Dani: Would like to send the message in a positive way: As a tool for interested parties to gain access to the code, and a tool for understaffed projects to bring in committers
 +
** Alex: Would like to send the message, that Eclipse is open to contributions
 +
*** McQ: Yes, but not at the cost of making existing committers feel bad
 +
*** '''Lars''' to draft a new note (next week)
 +
* Lars: '''Mylyn Notification API'''
 +
** Still on Dani's list of items
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''February 1, 2012:''' - Dani, Martin, John
+
'''Nov 8, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Sergey, Lars, Dani, Alex
−
* Dani: '''No UA Committers any more''' - move UA under Platform UI such that at least somebody can apply patches
+
* Dani: '''Update on N-Builds'''
−
** AI John check with Wayne ... UA is a subcomponent now, may not even need a move review.
+
** Releng team will drop N-builds - will also reduce work on the Releng team
−
* Dani: {{bug|343150}} git '''DenyNonFastForward'''
+
** Retention policies will need to be updated on I-Builds (keep weekly I-Builds)
−
** Orion could eventually add tooling to support easy workflows in spite of deny on the repo ... but not in this release
+
** Provide a Hudson job which can mark an I-Build as unstable in case it isn't good
−
** Ping on the bug again and proceed
+
* Dani: '''Neon.2'''
−
* John: Decide when to switch 4.2 builds from re-using 3.x binary bundles vs full 4.x builds
+
** Feature Freeze today - Release Review just listing the N&N
−
** Today, the 4.x testsuite just tests 4.x specific stuff; things like JDT tests just run against 3.8 today
+
** There was some new API, but it was backported mostly for bug fixes ... nothing relevant for the N&N
−
** Today, cannot generate Javadocs in 4.x today sine it needs the full source
+
** Agreement that release reviews should be minimal effort - there was never community feedback on the reviews.
−
** Today, nightlies are running 3.x only (could change to running 4.x nightlies only)
+
* Lars: '''Code Reviews on Understaffed Projects'''
−
** Today, 3.x builds run at IBM and 4.x builds run at Eclipse.org
+
** Make it easier for known, good people to get access to the code base for reviewing patches
−
** Only few test failures left in the 4.x builds --&gt; ready to switch
+
** We'd still need to know the people - don't offer commit rights to random people
−
** AI: '''Kim''' to send 4.x test results to the mailing list, consider switching right after M5
+
** Refactorings: Valuable if done by committers, but reviewing patches that are produced by refactorings is too hard
−
** '''Performance Tests:''' Not yet run on 4.x yet - should be able to run on Denis' vserver
+
** Making someone a committer is preferred if there is some commitment to doing work moving forward
−
*** IBM is going to lose the physical machines for performance tests in 2 weeks ! (Going to migrate to vserver too!)
+
** Sergey: There's too many unreviewed patches against Platform in some areas - we need more committers.
−
*** Need a new baseline
+
** Proposal: '''Offer a shortcut for committers on one component who express interest in another component.'''
−
** Andrew: at '''FOSSLC''' in Brussels this week, going to represent Eclipse with Mike Milinkovich, Gunnar Wagenknecht and others
+
*** Criteria: Provided contributions in the past, and shows interest moving forward.
−
* '''Gerrit''': Platform won't jump in as an early adopter this time, wait for other projects first
+
*** Don't offer commit rights just for one contribution.
−
** Not all Platform Unittests can run on Hudson today (need at least some fingerprint tests to get value from Gerrit)
+
*** Consider merging components if a component has become so small that it's unnecessarily hard to contribute
 +
**** On a case by case basis, only if we think that merging components would solve more problems than creating new ones.
 +
** Dani: Who makes the decision on shortcuts - existing committers, or PMC ?
 +
*** In most cases, committers should have the say - but PMC may interfere if a project looks dysfunctional.
 +
*** '''AI Alex''' will write up proposed statement
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''January 25, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew, Dani
+
'''Nov 1, 2016''' - McQ, Sergey, Lars, Dani, Alex
−
* McQ: '''Note about 4.2 on Release Train'''
+
 
−
* Andrew: '''Eclipse 4.2 for Fedora''' - Feature note written for Eclipse Juno led to some discussion at Eng.Steering Committee, but finally approved
+
We agreed on the following changes:
−
* Dani: Team down by 1 but no impact (Dani is going to take over responsibilities)
+
−
* John: '''Build Failures in UA, Update, PDE, p2 yesterday''' after the move to Java 7... nobody watching these, need to find caretakers
+
−
** UA tests often fail due to a link validity checker, these can be caused by anyone
+
−
** Certificate Validity issue (Jar signing)
+
  
 +
* Create maintenance branch immediately after RC1 instead of after the release. Use the maintenance branch to produce the upcoming release.
 +
* Eliminate all code freezes on the main branch for RC releases, except for 1-2 days after RC1 before the maintenance branch is created. Freezes to allow test for milestone builds will still be applied (milestone freezes).
 +
* We decided that we will only have ‘I’-like builds, using always signing.
 +
* We decided to revisit the decision to always ship from master, but that's a longer discussion and won't happen soon.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''January 18, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew, Dani
+
'''Oct 18, 2016''' - McQ, Sergey, Martin, Dani, Alex
−
* McQ: '''4.2 quality''' and next steps
+
* Dani: '''PMC Approval for Sergey co-lead on Resources''' (Done)
−
** More resources found to enable 4.2 as the LTS base - encouraging, although some items still missing
+
* Alex: '''Lucene Update'''
−
** Fedora 17 think about shipping 4.2m6 (work ongoing) - that would be a large stack on top of 4.2
+
** Looking at updating to 6.x in Oxygen - CQs ongoing for Orbit - hoping to make M4
−
** John: '''Oracle Java 7 as Reference Platform''' now that the most severe issues are fixed (Java 6 EOL is June 2012 !) - that is Oracle, not OpenJDK
+
** Others like Mylyn, Pydev, ... use Lucene 5.x at this time; others consume the Platform
−
*** Not remove Java 6 for now
+
** There is some potential breaking things but should be fine since multiple Lucene's in parallel can work.
−
*** Fedora also does all tests on 7
+
** If an old pre-built help index can not be read, a new one is generated (Performance hit on the first run)
 +
** Dani: No issue, will also update Jetty in M4
 +
* Dani: Would like to open '''eclipse.jdt''' repository and corresponding sub-project to all JDT committers (currently only used for the JDT feature)
 +
** The project is almost dead with only 2 active committers, since new JDT leads were not voted in
 +
** Changes to feature will be rare, and Dani agrees to review
 +
** Allows to put the Oomph setup file into a shared place where all JDT committers have access
 +
** PROPOSAL AGREED by all.
 +
* EclipseCon Europe next week - Dani, Lars and Alex will be there - will '''cancel next week's meeting'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''January 11, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''Oct 11, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex, Sergey
−
* McQ: '''State of Presentation API's'''
+
* Dani: '''Neon Update 2 Endgame Plan sent''' - thanks for the feedback
−
** Different API's in 4.2 and 3.x -- will need to deprecate API in 3.x
+
* Sergey: We should talk about our release process.
−
** Christian suggested deleting API that's not implemented in 4.x to get compile errors ... John thinks that binary compatibility is more important
+
** McQ asked Sergey to start the discussion via e-mail
−
*** Plugins will be "mostly OK", presentation API is cosmetic anyways
+
* McQ: What do you think about Devoxx and Eclipse Converge
−
** McQ: get in touch with clients who use presentation API, telling them what's best to do ... often newer 4.x infrastructure is much better than trying to keep 3.x around forever
+
−
* Andrew: '''Cairo and GTK3'''
+
−
* John: '''4.2 compiling now'''
+
−
* Martin: '''Updated JSch-0.1.44 version''' - how to announce properly
+
−
** AI Martin Announce on eclipse-dev and cross-project
+
−
** Should also put into migrtion notes and README
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''January 4, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''Oct 4, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex, Sergey
−
* McQ: Pascal's note about p2 leadership .. not sure who could step in and make a commitment (may see the same fate as UA)
+
* Dani: '''Neon Update 2 Endgame Plan''' - working on it
−
** Tom Watson looking for candidates, but looks like none in McQ's team
+
* Dani: '''Release Review'''
 +
** In the past, features were not announced - now for 4.6.2, features + release review must be in by RC1
 +
** Will do the minimum necessary / required by EMO, for Update Releases.
 +
* Lars: '''p2 merge into Equinox status''' -
 +
* Sergey: '''Logistics of dealing with Service Releases'''
 +
** Managing version increments is very fragile and error-prone
 +
*** Discussion already happened, see {{bug|499164}} -- we'll not increment minor versions on backports even if API is added
 +
*** '''AI Dani''' send a note out to eclipse-dev again
 +
** '''New & Noteworthy / Features for Update Releases:'''
 +
*** If there's new features, there must be a New&Noteworthy for users (everyone agrees)
 +
*** What about doing two feature releases per year with one service release each ?
 +
**** Dani: Not having features in "some" releases would defeat what the Community wanted
 +
**** Alex thinks that allowing features every 6 months would calm down most demand for new features
 +
**** PMC Review of feature backports worked fine so far
 +
**** '''RESOLUTION''' Will not change the process before having it settle a bit
 +
***** McQ would love to see a single development stream all the time ...
 +
*** Would the Generic Editor be acceptable in a release before June 2017 ?
 +
**** Tentatively yes, it's a separate bundle not affecting other code, it matters to the Community, so why not...
 +
**** Martin: OK, but what about newly introduced API ... would it be declared "provisional" initially ?
 +
**** Dani: There's no such thing as "provisional API". Teams who decide on backporting must also decide on API.
 +
**** Sergey: CDT has done full feature release every quarter for some time now and hasn't screwed up API...
 +
**** Martin,Lars,Sergey: What about marking "fresh" API as "@noreference under construction" until it's hardened...
 +
***** McQ: Then declare APIs as official only once a year ?
 +
***** Wouldn't want to tie to a yearly cycle again ... but then we're back to the Version Numbering discussion...
 +
***** '''AI All''' continue discussion on mailing list or next week.
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''December 14, 2011:''' - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Andrew
+
'''Sep 27, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex + Sergey Prigogin (guest)
−
* API Tooling Baseline comparison 3.7 vs 4.2 -- problematic since API was copied
+
* Discussion about PMC upstaffing
−
* {{bug|343150}} git '''denyNonFastForward''' ie forbid commits that rewrite history ... looking for general policy ... Eclipse Project to adopt immediately.
+
−
** Andrew: Denis may roll out the change to all repos
+
−
** Resolution: Wait until after Christmas, if not rolled out by then move forward ourselves
+
−
* McQ (Tom Watson): '''Leadership for p2 team'''
+
−
* John: '''4.2 Builder switching to Hudson for M5''' - not all of the UI tests compile
+
−
** Lot of test failures
+
−
** Just flip the switch to Hudson, and live with failures at some point ... (and commit to fixing test failures as fast as we can)
+
−
** Fixing a components' test is the component team's job.
+
−
* Vacations: '''Skip next 2 weeks'''
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''December 7, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin
+
'''Sep 20, 2016''' - Martin, McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex
−
* Martin: {{bug|365908}} with 4.2m4 not picking up extensions from dropins/
+
* Resources Leadership - '''AI Dani''' reach out to Szymon
−
* John / Dani - XML problems breaking the build due to a "Help Index Generation" ant task
+
* PMC upstaffing: Focus on large installs; UI Freeze monitor, code cleanup, solid solutions, focus on code reviews
−
* John / Anrew - '''Hudson Failures''', Platform fortunately not there
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 Moved to July 2017''' - AI Dani talk to the Planning Council, proposing an "Update 1" in July
−
** Reasons: Hudson can't tag and can't deploy to downloads
+
** Better for consumers, available via "just update", though little bit extra work (CQ + Release Review)
−
** John: It makes sense that the Hudson user can't write to the Repo
+
** Schedule looks still aggressive when looking at specifications; need to keep the team motivated
−
** Orion: Start from a shellscript (for tagging), then kick off a Hudson build partway through
+
* Dani: '''SelectionListener SWT Change''' - reverted for M2 since more clients were affected than expected
 +
** Proposed change turned out to be source-incompatible - will look at a different approach
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''November 30, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin, McQ
+
'''Sep 13, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Lars
−
* Andrew - '''Long Term Support'''. McQ - Overlap is in the build technology, can't be done for Juno (still busy with git + hudson), but happy to consume what's being developed
+
* Upstaffing the PMC
−
** Foundation contracted with Sonatype (Igor) for moving to Tycho, but just analyzing the current build may take 4 months
+
* Build failures due to an SWT Change
−
** Linuxtools currently using a small ant wrapper which just calls the Platform build (generate a source tarball such that linux distros can consume Platform from source;
+
−
* Martin - '''User Assistance Situation'''
+
−
** Chris G moved to Jazz - Rest of the IBM team completely maxed already, would fix critical security defects only
+
−
** Some work has been done by other IBM committers.. could release patches, but can't be responsive to fixes
+
−
** There's an opportunity for others in the Community to step in and set the direction
+
−
** McQ: The only one most important issue at the moment is compliance with the new US Government accessibility regulations
+
−
** Newer Lucene; Help Search Stemming problems; nobody actively tracking the inbox
+
−
** John: Have been moving "committer-less" components into the general Platform component where 12+ committers have commit rights
+
−
** McQ: Platform project Zombies is OK, but having somebody step up would be better
+
−
** John: 3rd party dependencies... help has a few, eg upgrading to Jetty (managed by Chris before he left)
+
−
*** Lucene: Merged with SOLR, then 3 releases came out in the past 3 months, no Foundation CQ's in ... John interested in adopting Orion
+
−
*** Been in contact with Gunnar Wagenknecht who is also interested, but newer Lucene pulls in more dependencies than it needs
+
−
** Failing Search : would need an exact bug report where the search is failing, then McQ could get product teams excited
+
−
** John: Orion problem with older lucene is that it's leaking file handles ... less of a problem for Platform where we index only once
+
−
* John - {{bug|363948}} '''Eclipse 3.8 to 4.2 update'''
+
−
** Fix would involve changing metadata in p2 such that a 3.8 update wouldn't find 4.2 automatically, unless a specific update is requested
+
−
** That fix leverages what Pascal from p2 considers a bug
+
−
** Products could manage the problem by not adding the Juno repository.. but there's lots of things in Juno that people would want (eg egit, cdt, ...)
+
−
*** Fix that John thinks about would be on the product level
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''November 23, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew
+
'''Sep 6, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin
−
* Discussion of whether to turn on auto-tagging in maintenance builds. General agreement this is a good idea. We would not have a separate "integration" branch for maintenance streams.
+
* Dani: Thanks for approving Noopur
−
* Some discussion of EclipseCon submissions. PC voting is underway and program should be decided in the next two weeks. There is a great program of submissions so far, and it will be tough to select the talks that will make the cut.
+
* Dani: Java Language Server Proposal - at the Foundation, will be called "JDT Language Server"
 +
* Dani: RC4 - Fix for an Equinox p2 issue, only known issue being fixed, looking good
 +
* Dani: Looking at the generic code editor, would prefer moving some things to M3 (talking to Sopot and Mickael)
 +
* LTS: Market for paid fixes on old versions not quite as good as expected
 +
* Release Reviews: When is a feature considered an "important feature" ?
 +
** Important Features require a full release review thus lots of effort, avoided for Neon.1
 +
** '''AI Dani''' discuss in Planning Council call tomorrow
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''October 26, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew, McQ
+
<strike>Aug 30, 2016 - No topics</strike>
  
−
* Approve Paul Webster as Platform UI project lead
+
<strike>Aug 23, 2016 - No topics</strike>
−
** Committer vote [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-ui-dev/msg04980.html here].
+
−
** The PMC members unanimously approve this nomination
+
−
** John to send note to EMO
+
−
* Some discussion of the Eclipse Platform UI Git disaster - {{bug|361707}}
+
−
** Currently any committer can delete everything from the repository permanently
+
−
** The commit hook prevents committers from restoring commits made by others that they have in their local clone
+
−
**
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''October 12, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ
+
'''Aug 16, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars
−
* PMC upstaffing - looking for more Community input
+
* Dani will not always be available next two weeks (Eclipse Summit India and IBM Bangalore team visit)
−
* egit bug backlog
+
** Please split the load on +1'ing backport/API requests - please do review the code and set the pmc+1 flag
−
* e4 builds
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|498106}} Oxygen Plan'''
−
* p2 downloadable archived repos
+
** Agreed by all so far, including removal of REL6 as a reference platform
−
* Moving to 4.x
+
** Individual subproject Wikis look pretty consistent now
−
** Community is moving ... any product that's not planned for EOL needs to move
+
** UNIX Platforms (Solaris,AIX,HP-UX) have been removed for M1
−
 
+
*** PPC-Linux Releng was also removed but accidentally (due to a hardware failure), will be restored for M2.
 +
** No consensus on Ubuntu yet - will keep 14.04 in for now, consider taking out on the next update
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|499164}} Version Numbering for Neon.1'''
 +
** The original "+5" or "+10" proposal showed some issues:
 +
** Update with skipping would propagate to features; no tooling; no real benefit of semantic versioning
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to keeping using the status quo for now ("allow small updates even with micro uprev only")
 +
* Lars: '''p2 pending patches'''
 +
** '''AI Dani''' send E-Mail to Tom - suggest reviews or merger p2 back to Platform
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|499399}} Eclipse Infrastructure Stability'''
 +
** Denis is looking at it - maybe too many requests coming in ?
 +
* Lars: '''e4 spy and wizard migration to PDE'''
 +
** Dani: Are wizards e4 specific, or could they be used with JFace ?
 +
** New SWT Layout Spy should go to SWT, rather then keeping in PDE's Build
 +
** Some spies usable also in RCP Apps - for example the e4 model spy - 6 independent projects, dependency on emf.edit
 +
*** Looks like a big extension to PDE -- consider some consolidation and cleanup (tests, String externalization, ...)
 +
*** '''AI Lars''' to check if contributors would be willing to clean up as discussed, then moving into pde.ui would be fine.
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''October 5, 2011:''' - Dani, John, McQ
 
−
* Some discussion of removing CVS from the SDK ({{bug|359466}}). There is no strong argument for removing it, so it is hard to argue for disruption to user community. In the end we would like CVS to be removed and would like it to be just as easy to install any SCM into the platform. We would like to see the p2 discovery UI used to make it trivial to add SCM support into SDK (Help > Add Version Control > CVS). Once we had that in place we would be in a better position to remove CVS by default.
 
−
* We also discussed the Git line delimiter problems. Current recommendation:
 
−
** core.autocrlf=false - not honoured by JGit so this makes things worse
 
−
** Use Global workspace setting to use Unix line feeds by default
 
−
** Encourage projects to add a project-specific setting to use Unix line feeds
 
  
 +
'''Aug 09, 2016''' - Dani
 +
* no one joined - had private conversation with McQ later
 +
** '''guys, please announce when you can't join. I can make better use of my time than waiting for you in the call ;-) - thanks.'''
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''September 21, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Martin
 
−
* Dani: '''git''' - Mac / Linux using scripts, tooling not yet ready for Windows ... productivity lacks
 
−
** painful when working across multiple repositories ... problematic workflow for reviewing incoming changes
 
−
** John: egit could fetch automatically in the background (without merge)
 
−
* John: '''used platforms poll'''
 
−
** Results visible once voted: [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/platform-poll.php platform-poll.php]
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''Aug 02, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
−
'''September 14, 2011:''' - John, McQ, Dani, Martin
+
* Dani: New [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_7_draft.xml Oxygen Plan Format]
−
* Martin: '''PMC membership''' - still looking for people to ask after Steve and Jeff left
+
** '''AI Dani''' ask Denis about aggregating the Sub Wiki's into the master page
−
* John: '''Jetty 8''' - should be using Jetty from Eclipse (Jetty 7 ist stable, Jetty 8 is current) but API changes after Jetty 6
+
* Alex: SWT Fragments for ARM64 etc
−
** eg standalone help - AI John to ping Chris G;
+
** Tycho doesn't support auto-selecting fragments - in contact with Jan and Tobias
−
** No longer re-exporting Jetty API since 3.6 (deprecated api, introduced replacements)
+
** Dani: Would like to revert changes - don't want to punish people who are not interested in fragments
−
** releng, would need Jetty at -1 if using current from train .. makes builds a bit more messy again
+
** Not really an SWT problem, so editing .target files would be a clean solution
−
** check with Equinox
+
** Will probably go with empty (dummy) fragments without natives, as that's the simplest solution
 +
* Dani: SWT team - Lakshmi going to Sweden, will not be available until end 2016
 +
** Arun is mostly back, Sravan is now on Releng
 +
** Need to push further on building at the Foundation!!
 +
** Alex: Getting CentOS for building ... but test machines are on SLES11, which is too old, will need at least SLES12
 +
*** Dani: Will need an owner at the Eclipse Foundation to ensure this proceeds ! Alex agreed to further drive this.
 +
* Target Env: Dropping REL6 -- reference platform for testing will only be REL7 (though will continue to run on REL6)
 +
** Reducing support level this year, in order to prepare for only supporting GTK3 next year
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''September 7, 2011:''' - John, McQ
 
−
* State of building Juno at eclipse.org: we are close but still some issues with the tests. Transition to Git halted our progress on this. Once the Git migration is complete, we should just make the switch over and live with the pain of some failing tests. Component teams will need to help with diagnosing problems with their tests.
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''July 26, 2016''' - no meeting
−
'''August 31, 2011:''' - Dani, John
+
  
−
* We need to pull the new ICU4J out of maintenance release because the fix didn't pass review in time. We will defer to Indigo SR2
+
'''July 19, 2016''' - no meeting
−
* Some discussion of the treatment of tags in Git vs CVS. Committers need to be aware they can't checkout the contents of a particular build into their workspace all at once.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''July 12, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Alex
 +
* Dani: Hackathon summary
  
−
'''August 24, 2011:''' - Dani, John
+
<hr/>
−
* EGit is far behind on level of polish, usability, robustness, conforming to UI guidelines, etc. We may need to make contributions to avoid it hurting productivity
+
'''July 5, 2016''' - Lars, McQ, Alex, Dani, Martin
−
* Proposed workflow changes in bugzilla 4.0: {{bug|337245}}. Proposing removing NEW, ASSIGNED and CLOSED states which would lose valuable information for us.
+
* Lars: SWT move to Java 8
 +
* Alex: Initial builds of GTK 2.24 for AIX - planning to bump minimum GTK version to 2.24
 +
** Will remove non-cairo drawing, this is where most of the breakage happens
 +
** Ubuntu 12.04: 2.24.10 / 3.4.5
 +
** RHEL 6: 2.24.23-6
 +
** AIX, HP-UX, Solaris ? -- Oxygen will only focus on Linux, Windows, Mac
 +
** Secondary Platforms: Not built on EF Hardware, but interested parties can contribute binaries
 +
** Trying to support Platforms which can't move up to modern GTK at a similar pace as Linux is hard
 +
** '''AI Alex''' write up a message to the Community
 +
* Lars: {{bug|486961}} extending the Eclipse Text Editor
 +
** Dani: Text Editor must remain unchanged, but feel free to provide a new different code editor
 +
** https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=496114#c7
 +
** Not against adding extension points ... but having the standard text editor adopt those is a no-go
 +
* Dani: Build, and Hackathon
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''June 28, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Alex
 +
* Discussion about Language Server Protocol
 +
** MS sponsoring hackathon in Zurich, Dani expected to go there
 +
** The protocol has an Open Source license, but there is no Open Source Governance ... who owns the specification?
  
−
'''August 10, 2011:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
<hr/>
−
* Dani / Martin - '''Debug Flexible Hierarchy "provisional.api" namespace'''
+
'''June 21, 2016''' -  
−
** Cannot be moved into an "API" namespace without breaking external non-SDK clients since types are leaked from internal packages
+
*  
−
** Q1: Move framework to a place outside Debug?
+
−
** Q2: Declare "internal" packages as API? - API Tools won't be usable
+
−
** McQ: Is it really impossible to add new API in parallel while keeping the old one in place for now?
+
−
*** Issues: (1) Performance, (2) bugs due to delegating, (3) is it worth doing that work? CDT already marked x-friends - Debug could offer the same for other clients.
+
−
** McQ: Do we anticipate a huge Community out there just waiting for stuff to become full API? Then it's probably worth it...
+
−
*** But at this point any potential consumers already consume, so it's likely not worth the pain of renaming
+
−
*** Dani's suggestion: Go into a separate bundle and re-export, such that clients don't need debug
+
−
** John: Unless packages were intended to be API from the beginning, it's likely not API quality (that's likely also why Boris didn't want it in Jface)
+
−
** Martin: Would really want to see namespace refactored... quality standards..
+
−
** John: Had the experience in p2, it was much more than just package renaming
+
−
*** Very painful for user community, but in the end produced a much better results (but p2 was very young at that time)
+
−
** McQ: Can we provide backward compatible versions in parallel to the new namespace? We CANNOT break consumers.
+
−
*** Renaming only makes sense if mirroring/proxying is possible.
+
−
*** Lots of consumers in the old form, how many new consumers would we gain in the new form?
+
−
** Martin: Create a fork / clone on the UI side for new consumers, as real API?
+
−
*** McQ: Only makes sense if there's a community just waiting to pick this up.
+
−
*** Dani: Debug itself could not move to the new framework without breaking clients ... so we'd not have any clients inside the SDK
+
−
** McQ: It's non-trivial work, and before starting it we'd need to verify there's consumers for it
+
−
** Learnings from the past: Not keep stuff in provisional for so long any more
+
−
** Resolution: '''Pawel to find consumers for a refactored new bundle, then decide if / how to do the work'''
+
−
* Dani: '''Java 7 - Segfault due to loop optimizations''' ([http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/08/java7-hotspot details])
+
−
** Occurs a lot inside Apache Lucene, how to communicate that?
+
−
** McQ: send to eclipse-dev and cross-project
+
−
** Oracle aware of the issue - working on an early refresh, workaround exists (disable loop optimizations via -XX:-UseLoopPredicate)
+
−
** Another JIT bug was fixed by Oracle before GA because we reported it
+
−
** AI Dani '''Talk to Oracle when an update can be expected, soon send a message to eclipse-dev / cross-project'''
+
−
* Vacation notices:
+
−
** Martin: away from August 14 to September 1
+
−
** McQ: away from August 22 to September 5
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''August 3, 2011:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
+
'''June 14, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars
−
* Dani - successfully moved Java 7 support to 3.7.1, 3.8, 4.1.1 and 4.2 streams
+
* McQ: '''Mattermost / Slack''' for communication
 +
** not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
 +
* Lars: '''Master is Open'''
 +
** Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
 +
** Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
 +
** Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes ({{bug|360703}}) is open to improve that)
 +
** We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
 +
* Lars: '''Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ?''' - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
 +
* McQ: '''Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che''' (from [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ide-dev/ ide-dev] mailing list and {{bug|496114}})
 +
** The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
 +
** The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
 +
*** People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
 +
** The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
 +
** How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
 +
*** At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
 +
*** But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
 +
* Dani: '''What goes into the Neon Update Releases'''
 +
** as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
 +
** '''AI: Dani''' will prepare a note
 +
* Dani: '''Using Sound in Eclipse'''
 +
** Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see {{bug|496003}})
 +
** Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
 +
** Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
 +
** McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so '''that''' should really be leveraged
 +
** Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
 +
** Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
 +
** Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.
  
 +
'''June 7, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex
 +
* no topics
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''July 27, 2011:''' - Dani, John, McQ
+
'''May 31, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex
−
* Discussed how many versions back PDE should support development on. Historically we used N-2 but currently it is N-7. The layers of compatibility are starting to become hard to manage. We agreed dropping support for versions prior to 3.6 is ok if there is a benefit in doing so (cleans up PDE, makes the situation less confusing for end user, etc). However PDE must handle existing plugins with old version numbers in the plugin.xml (possibly with a warning and a quick fix to update/remove the number).
+
* Dani: '''IP Log'''
−
* We have some rough days ahead: first release train milestone on 4.x, ongoing build pain from Git migration, merge of Java 7 into mainline, and lots of people on holidays. Hold onto your hats!
+
** The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
−
 
+
** In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
 +
* Dani: '''Release Review'''
 +
** Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
 +
* Dani: '''Update Jetty to 3.9.3'''
 +
** Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
 +
* Dani: '''RC4 Status Update'''
 +
** Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''July 20, 2011:''' - Dani, Martin, John, Jeff
+
'''May 24, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin
−
* Dani - '''p2 Installer {{bug|317785}}''' affects Java 7 users - when they want to update it looks like they are dead
+
* Dani: '''IP Log Generator''' - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
−
** Regression test only fails once every 100 times .. might be more often in the wild
+
* Dani: '''Release Review''' - Deadline next week (June 2)
−
** Might need some note on the download page (clickthrough) - people dont read the readme
+
* Dani: '''Deprecation Request from Brian'''
−
* John - '''git migration''' - parts from git / parts from CVS isn't that bad for now
+
** Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
 +
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date'''
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
 +
** Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
 +
** Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
 +
** This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
 +
* Dani: '''Neon Status'''
 +
** Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time
  
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''May 17, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''{{Bug|475184}} Neon Plan Update 2'''
 +
** Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
 +
** SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
 +
*** Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
 +
**** Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
 +
*** Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
 +
** Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
 +
** '''AI Dani''' to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
 +
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date''' - EMO: To be decided per project
 +
** IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
 +
** Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
 +
*** gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
 +
** Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
 +
* Dani: '''Policy for Neon.Update Releases''' - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
 +
** Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
 +
** Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
 +
** Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - '''decision''': discuss feature by feature at PMC
 +
** Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
 +
** In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
 +
* Dani: '''Neon RC2 Builds Update'''
 +
** Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
 +
** Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
 +
** GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
 +
** Lars: {{bug|493477}} detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''July 13, 2011:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
+
'''May 10, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
−
* Want more Community involvement in the Eclipse PMC - "outside representation" in addition to companies with a commercial interest
+
* Dani: '''Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases'''
−
* nice Java 7 webcast last week - Mike Milinkovich mentions our Eclipse Java 7 Support (BETA)
+
** Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
 +
* Martin: '''RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2'''
 +
** GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
 +
*** Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
 +
** Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
 +
*** Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
 +
*** There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
 +
*** Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
 +
** Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
 +
*** Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
 +
*** Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''July 6, 2011:''' - John, Dani, Martin
+
'''May 3, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
−
* Dani - on track with Java 7 work; Oracle interested in having good Eclipse support
+
* [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02598.html Brian's request on the PMC list]
−
* git migration - Platform UI likely going to move this week
+
** McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
−
** Paul has a tool for gathering build notes from git (currently a commandline script)
+
** Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
 +
** Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...
 +
** McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
 +
** Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
 +
** '''ACTION''' McQ to -1 and argue why.
  
−
<hr id="20110615"/>
+
* Alex: '''Update on Accessibility'''
−
'''June 15, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Jeff
+
** broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
−
* John - '''git migration''': should egit be part of the SDK ?
+
** due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
−
** Build-time circular dependencies. Keep SDK small, but make it a very simple and obvious step to obtain egit.
+
** Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
−
** It's already easy to update - milestone to mileston SDK update is a single step for SDK + egit.
+
*** and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
−
* John - '''git migration''' and the mapfiles
+
** Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !
−
** In orion, just tag HEAD of the build branch
+
−
** Dani: need to make sure that build notes can still be created
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''June 1, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani
+
'''April 26, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ
−
* Some discussion of proposed Eclipse Foundation security policy
+
* Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
−
* We still want to see the disclosure time-frame being 3 months after the release containing the fix. Not all of our consumer community has the build technology or expertise to apply source patches to their products. Making sure the fix is in a maintenance release is the only practical way for some people to consume fixes
+
* Alex: '''Accessibility''' - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
−
* It would be nice for critical security fixes to appear in the simultaneous release repository even after the SR2 time period. p2 would need some small amount of work to be able to flag critical/security patches and automatically notify the user about them being available. Nobody has signed up to do this work.
+
** Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
−
* Some discussion of Git migration. There is no need to move everything at once since our build can handle homogeneous inputs from both CVS and Git. One possibility is migrating Equinox as a first step. The most complicated piece is migrating the repository containing the builder itself. We will need to decide on where map files and documentation go: likely some kind of "common" repository for Eclipse TLP.
+
** McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
 +
* Alex: '''Platform.ui generification of project'''
 +
** Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
 +
** McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
 +
** Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
 +
** Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
 +
** '''ACTION Alex''' to prepare a message for review and then send that.
 +
* Lars: '''Copyright discussion'''
 +
** Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
 +
** The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
 +
* Dani: '''Update on FEEP'''
 +
** Paul not reached out yet
 +
** A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
 +
* Dani: '''Update on M7'''
 +
** Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
 +
** Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full
  
−
<hr/>
+
<br/>
−
'''May 25, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
'''April 19, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)
−
* Missing CQ's for old legacy stuff in old update sites / repos
+
* Dani: '''IP Stuff''' on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
−
** No problem for ZIP's (we can move to archive)
+
* Dani: '''FEEP''' discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
−
** OK with removing some legacy old stuff... How many years back to keep old stuff?
+
** General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
−
* Java 7 and 3.7.1
+
** Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
−
** Mike M OK with including in 3.7.1 (when it's stable enough)
+
** Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
 +
* Dani: '''All PMC please review and +1 API requests''' when you find time
 +
** McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
 +
* '''Reviews vs. Features'''
 +
** Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora
  
−
<hr/>
+
<br/>
−
'''May 4, 2011:''' - Jeff, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''April 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex
 +
* Lars: '''Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement'''
 +
** [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=485257#c13 bug 485257_c13] EMO: All information is in the git repos
 +
** McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
 +
** Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
 +
** '''ACTION''' McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
  
−
* RC1 test pass went well overall
+
* Lars: '''{{bug|490012}} Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE'''
−
* Investigating an SWT blocker preventing checkbox tables from working
+
** Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
−
* There is a problem with the Ant mail task with Ant 1.8. Ant mail requires an optional extra jar to be added. In Ant 1.7 this didn't cause build to fail, but in Ant 1.8 it does. Our conclusion was to document in the migration guide but take no other action.
+
** Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
−
* Git migration:
+
** Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
−
** Kim and DJ are investigating migration of the build to Git. Making progress but don't have a full build working yet
+
** '''DECISION''' to get rid of the strict error per project.
−
** We should consider summer 2011 for migration. For those teams with forked code between 3.x/4.x, they are finding it difficult to keep fixes in sync and potentially git can help with that.
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|475934}} API Change on model processing order'''
−
'''April 27, 2011:''' - Jeff, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
** Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
−
* Dani '''still 100 bugs tagged 3.7''' - need to remind in the archcall to properly tag target milestones
+
** McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
−
* John '''EDL for Examples'''
+
** McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
−
** Value of examples is they're there to be used - there's no business value in holding on to IP via Copyright so EDL seems right
+
*** Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
−
** Re-licensing existing examples is difficult (eg SWT examples); but new examples should go under EDL
+
*** Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
−
** Including examples in distributed features must take care of fixing abouts
+
*** Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
−
* John '''3.7 plan final update''': all plan items committed or deferred; update to RH6
+
** Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
 +
** '''DECISION''' to allow making the change and announce widely.
 +
 
 +
* Dani: '''FEEP and EMO Hiring Update'''
 +
** EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
 +
** Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
 +
** Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
 +
 
 +
* Dani: '''IDE-dev proposal'''
 +
** People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
 +
** Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
 +
*** McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
 +
*** OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''April 20, 2011:''' - Jeff, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''April 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
−
* Jeff,Martin '''Builds at Eclipse''' - Work ongoing. IBM Mac has been donated. Mac testing has problems with some weird vnc bug
+
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
−
** Martin - could kick a 3.6.2+ build and artifacts OK, but confused by lots of warning messages. Kim responded immediately, but can this be made "more official" ?
+
** Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
−
** Public Builds - get the engineering underpinnings in place, then polish afterwards
+
** Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
−
** Won't get a lot better in 3.7 but could make it a plan item for 3.8
+
** Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
−
** John agrees that improving the warning messages to be more informative is a good thing - Kim's very helpful
+
* Dani: '''Solaris 32-bit'''
−
* Dani '''Polish Bug to be prioritized''': {{bug|342648}} In SWT on Linux, RTL mode, Tree.getItem(Point) gives invalid result.
+
** Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
−
** Regression ?
+
** Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
−
** McQ: Every GTK version needs work - maybe it's specific to a new GTK; might be more than a P2
+
*** Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
 +
** McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
 +
* Dani: '''New Solstice Welcome'''
 +
** Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
 +
** Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
 +
** McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
 +
* Alex: '''FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)'''
 +
** "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
 +
*** Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
 +
*** It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
 +
*** McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
 +
** Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
 +
*** '''AI Dani''' send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
 +
** Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
 +
** Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
 +
*** McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
 +
*** Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
 +
*** McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal '''Transparency''' on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
 +
*** McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
 +
**** Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: '''THIS''' is what the FEEP should have adressed !
 +
** Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
 +
** Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
 +
*** McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
 +
** Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
 +
* Lars '''Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy'''
 +
** Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''April 13, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani, Jeff
+
'''March 29, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex
−
* John: reminder to review proposed project charter update
+
* Lars: '''PDE Build in Maintenance''' - Officially state this ?
−
* Freeze plan for Indigo is ready
+
** PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
−
* Reviewed new polish items
+
** Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
−
* Investigating some 4.1 compatibility problems, possibly related to EMF changes
+
** McQ: '''DECISION''' Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
−
<hr/>
+
* Lars: '''Integrate more projects into Platform UI?'''
 +
** Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
 +
** Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
 +
** Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
 +
** '''DECISION''' to not merge projects at this time.
 +
* Lars: '''Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list'''
 +
** McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
 +
** Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
 +
** Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. '''AI Dani''' notify mailing list.
 +
* Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
 +
** Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"
  
−
'''March 30, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani
 
−
* Discussed and clarified the API approval guidelines. Will be announced in the arch call.
 
−
* Dani - Java 7 deferred from 3.7. GA planned together with 3.7.1.
 
−
** John: is feature work which might need review
 
−
* John - we need to prepare the Git migration
 
−
** John to ask DJ to do investigations
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''March 22, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
 +
* Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
 +
* Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
 +
* Discussion about Che
 +
** McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
 +
** Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
 +
** McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?
  
−
'''March 23, 2011:''' - McQ, Dani
 
−
* Prioritized the [[Polish3.7]] list. This is a recurring task for the next few weeks.
 
−
* Discussed and agreed on API change approval process, see [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg01368.html PMC mailing list note].
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''March 15, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* Dani: '''Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)'''
 +
* Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
 +
* McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
 +
* Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
 +
* Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
 +
** Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
 +
** Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
 +
** Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
 +
* VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
 +
** Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
 +
** Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)
  
−
'''March 9, 2011:''' - John, McQ
+
'''March 8, 2016''' - No call
−
 
+
−
* Ongoing discussion of direction for 2012 release train. Will continue discussion in email to ensure all PMC members are involved.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''March 2, 2011:'''
+
'''March 1, 2016''' - Dani, Martin
−
* McQ - Migrating to 4.x. Don't be disruptive when there is no need to. Want to avoid migration pain.
+
* Dani OOO next week
−
** New feature work will be in 4.x, but as long as there are committers working on 3.x it will stay alive
+
* Alex: '''{{bug|179924}} SSH-agent authentication''' 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
−
** Make sure that quality keeps up: Releng / Build, make long-term committers continue reviewing contributions
+
** Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
−
** Problem with 4.x is just the bugs (impeding productivity), it's not anything architectural
+
** Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
−
** '''Convene again next week and come up with a consistent message''', AI McQ get hold of Jeff for a statement
+
* EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.
−
* John - '''3.6.2+ builds''' set up on Hudson now
+
−
** Kim's {{bug|338557}} Job's mostly ready, Martin is the first tester. Should inform the Community once things go smoothly
+
−
** Updating version numbers like going to a virtual never-existing "3.6.3" release in order to give a clear and consistent message
+
−
** Dani has an (internal) document - Martin: interested for TM and CDT projects - '''AI Dani''' send Doc to Martin for for meeting notes
+
−
** Always updating the micro by one only ... so if bundle was not updated in Helios SR1 or SR2, it should go .1 in 3.6.2+
+
  
−
'''February 23, 2011:'''
+
<hr/>
−
* Martin - '''3.6.2+ M-Builds post 3.6.2''' - needed for adopters to get 3.6.2+ bundles signed; on demand only? If scheduled, how often?
+
'''February 23, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''Mars.2 is on track'''
 +
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
 +
** EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
 +
* Dani: '''Update on Welcome'''
 +
** Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
 +
* McQ: '''Scrollbars on Windows''' and their appearance
 +
** Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
 +
** Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
 +
** McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
 +
** Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
 +
** Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
 +
** Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''February 16, 2011:'''
+
 
 +
'''February 16, 2016''' - Alex, Dani, Martin
 +
* no topics
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''February 9, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
 
−
* Dani - '''Builder bug''':  Theoretically, the builder bug can cause bad binaries shipped from Eclipse.org
 
−
** But switching the builder now could have other consequences. Most people likely use the 3.6.0 or 3.6.1 builder
 
−
** Platform uses the 3.6.1 builder. Bug appeared in 3.6.0
 
−
** McQ thinks we should recommend using the new builder - John: can never know whether a problematic code construct is there or not
 
−
** Provide a patched version of the 3.6.1 basebuilder as an option for people to use - '''AI John''' ask Kim to re-produce a new basebuilder, then respin RC4
 
−
* McQ - '''Builds at Eclipse.org'''
 
−
** IBM Ottawa consolidating 7 offices into 2, plan to not have a build lab
 
−
** Kim still frustrated with Foundation facilities; McQ talked to people both inside IBM and the Foundation
 
  
 +
'''February 9, 2016''' - Alex, McQ, Dani
 +
* Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
 +
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|466370}} Welcome Screen redesign
 +
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|472614}} Smart Project Importer
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''February 2, 2011:''' - Canceled (no topics)
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
−
'''January 26, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Martin,  
+
'''February 2, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
−
* Dani: {{bug|330534}} '''ObjectTeams Contribution''' - JDT might allow using their namespace as an exception, couple p2 bugs pending
+
* Dani: '''Foundation Hires''' - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
−
** If the p2 solution cannot be done, OT/J will need to remain off the train
+
* Dani: '''Neon M5''' went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
−
* Martin: Concerned about '''Eclipse 3.x quality''', many regressions and not being addressed
+
* Dani: '''CQ Deadline''' on Feb.12 for Neon
−
** {{bug|320329}} ThreadJob#waitForRun can spin when blockingJob is not RUNNING
+
* Dani: {{bug|486647}} for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
−
*** '''Platform Runtime: Regression''' introduced in 3.6, can have severe Performance impact, reported 10-Jul, commenters unsure about approach to fix
+
** With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
−
*** A buggy contribution was accepted, and then the contributor left
+
** Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
−
*** John spent a lot of time.. there was a fix that didn't work
+
*** Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
−
*** Dani: Could the contribution be pulled out? - No because it's new API (yield())
+
*** We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
−
*** Contributor was quite good originally but then just switched teams and was no longer available
+
*** Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
−
*** The new testcase from Markus Schorn might help narrowing down the case quickly
+
** Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default
−
** {{bug|335153}} Regression: p2 downloads are much slower due to picking remote artifacts even when a local file: URL is available
+
−
*** '''p2: Regression''' introduced in 3.6, reported 24-Jan, testcase + patch attached, response pending
+
−
** {{bug|332840}} Wrong error about API change (Regression; works with 3.7M3)  
+
−
*** '''API Tooling: Regression''' introduced in 3.7M4, reported 17-Dec, Olivier:  "I'll take a look" but no response since
+
−
** {{bug|332838}} Bogus potential null pointer access warning (regression; works with 3.6)
+
−
*** '''JDT: Regression''' introduced in 3.7M4, reported 17-Dec, Ayushman: "I'll investigate" but no response since
+
−
** {{bug|332507}} [regression] incomplete build path reported on o.e.rse.subsystem.shells.local
+
−
*** '''PDE UI: Regression''' introduced in 3.7M4, reported 14-Dec, initial traffic but no followup since 16-Dec
+
−
** {{bug|335466}} Regression: category.xml processing fails when "name" contains special chars
+
−
*** Just detected recently
+
−
** {{bug|313899}} [Progress] Every user-job causes a busy cursor to be shown for a minimum of 250ms
+
−
*** '''Platform UI''': Patch provided on 21-May, no response whatsoever from Platform UI
+
−
** John: There had been a fair bit of turnover, new committers getting up to speed ... having less experienced people is a fact
+
−
*** Identifying key bugs in the big bug database takes a lot of experience
+
−
** Dani: M5 is the Major feature freeze, so new feature / API work has highest priority ... so quality drop is somewhat expected in M5
+
−
** Even for regressions... if the regression is less critical than new bugs, it goes behind
+
−
** '''RESOLUTION:''' Make the important bugs visible to the component leads or PMC. It's natural that we sometimes need to ping on a bug. M5 is a problematic time.
+
−
* John: {{bug|335374}} '''Redhat 6 as a Reference Platform'''
+
−
** SWT team doing some final testing, then will put only RH6 on the Ref Platform list
+
−
* John: '''OpenJDK as a Reference Platform''' - Oracle is interested and might contribute testing
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
''' January 19, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Jeff, Dani, Martin
+
'''January 26, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars
−
* Jeff will be unavailable for meeting next 6-7 weeks
+
* Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
−
* John: How do we interpret "under the direction of the PMC" in [http://www.eclipse.org/legal/EclipseLegalProcessPoster.pdf Eclipse legal process]?
+
* Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
−
** McQ: Not about approval, but about PMC being aware
+
* Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track
−
** Jeff: Goal is to indicate "Working with an Eclipse mindset", ie in close collaboration with a committer ... contributor must be aware of IP due diligence guidelines from the beginning of evolution of the code. We want to avoid introducing IP leaks by accepting legacy code that was written before assuming an Eclipse mindset.
+
−
** McQ: This is about understanding the direction of Eclipse as a whole. Request a PMC +1 on the bug as work is being started. PMC should work with committer to ensure that contributor has been instructed about IP rules.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
''' January 12, 2011:''' -  
+
'''January 19, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
 +
* Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
 +
** Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
 +
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''PDE Build''' - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
 +
** Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement '''in the Platform'''
 +
** Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
 +
** Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
 +
** Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
 +
* Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
 +
** Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
 +
* SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
 +
* Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
 +
** Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
 +
* Martin: '''Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?'''
 +
** Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
 +
** Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
 +
*** Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
 +
** Debian or SuSE should be OK;
 +
** Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
''' January 5, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Jeff, Martin
+
'''January 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* Dani: Component Lead progress? - Portal still doesn't have the correct list of components
+
* Dani: '''Upstaffing the PMC'''
 +
** Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
 +
* Dani: '''Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng''' - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
 +
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''Remove PDE Build from our drops?'''
 +
** Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
 +
** McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
 +
** Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
 +
* Dani: {{bug|485257}} '''Copyright Policy Change''' - waiting on EMO/Legal input
 +
* Alex: '''Updating SWT to Java7'''
 +
* McQ: '''Travel for EclipseCon'''
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''January 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani
 +
* Dani: '''PMC Membership'''
 +
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Revision as of 12:22, 6 December 2016

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

Dec 6, 2016 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • McQ talked to Tom Watson about Equinox moving to Platform - Tom wants to discuss with the RT PMC
  • Alex: Update on Wayland
    • Fedora 25 shipping with Wayland by default
    • Wayland back-end for SWT is a patch in progress, some events not delivered, others incorrectly
    • Hoping to be in good shape by M5.
    • Until then, Gnome can be started on X11 with additional packages installed.
    • If Wayland is needed, the XWayland compatibility layer does work although slow (some drawing can be seen)
    • Some rewrite in the Launcher will be needed due to the security model - each window is isolated
  • Dani: How we test milestones - people putting in features sometimes don't seem to participate in the milestone week
    • McQ: Agrees that a good deal of manual testing is needed to cover flows that developers actually use
    • Alex: If milestone week overlaps with other duties (outside Platform) those other duties often take precedence
    • Test automation doesn't help for new features that add UI
    • Sergey distributes I-Builds so regressions are often found early - but there's no firm data on quality. Alex also distributes / uses I-Builds.
    • McQ thinks that some confidence in quality is needed, before I-builds are given out
    • Dani: Dogfooding helps a lot more than test plans.
    • To be discussed next week when there are more people on the call
  • 4.6.2 looking good; M4 test pass today for releasing on Friday
  • Oxygen plan hasn't seen comments, so will only put Java 9 updates in there

Nov 29, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Sergey, Alex, Lars, Martin

  • Sergey: Understaffed Projects Announcement - should it be sent to a wider audience?
    • Was sent to eclipse-dev with cc: eclipse-pmc
    • Dani suggest checking the mailing list archives or via RSS eg eclipse-dev mailing list home
    • AI Dani: send Sergey some links
  • Martin: Is it clear enough what contributors could do if they feel not being heard?
    • There is a forum and developer mailing lists, so for the Eclipse project we are probably good
    • Dani: The README.txt on top of the repo looks like a very good place for such kind of information
    • AI Martin review a couple READMEs and then make suggestions on the eclipse-pmc mailing list
  • Dani: RC4 - no build currently planned will push RC3. There's also Oxygen M4 next week.
    • Need to move out some planned bugzilla's targeted M4 (platform.ui: Lars to help, core: Sergey)
    • JDT UI is tight since Noopur is on vacation and Markus is very busy with Java 9 and HiDPI work
  • New process in place for the IP Log, IP log for Neon Update 2 (4.6.2) got approved today; Review is scheduled and ends on Dec.21
  • JDT Language Server: Still some blockers on the IP Work (hackathon contributions)
  • AI All Plan Update for Oxygen M4 bug 499768; Dani will update the Java 9 info
  • Lars: Approvals for Equinox
    • RT PMC don't have meetings or a process in place for approvals
    • They think that the Eclipse PMC is in a better position to approve Equinox
    • But why is Equinox on the RT PMC after all, does that still make sense? After all builds are done by Eclipse.
    • AI Dani discuss with Tom

Nov 22, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Sergey, Alex, McQ (Regrets: Lars - travelling)

  • McQ: Simplify adding committers to understaffed projects
    • AI Sergey final Polish on Lars' proposal + suggestions as discussed
  • Martin: bug 498116 download servers are hosed every Tuesday
    • PMC agrees to trying a fix for Neon.2 - this kind of issues is important (Android also ran into this kind of issue 2 years ago)
    • Dani: we can encourage them to fix it, but EPP and Equinox are not governed by our PMC
  • Dani: Neon.3 Planning
  • Dani: FEEP Discussions on the eclipse.org-feep-stakeholders mailing list
    • Voting will be more open this time
  • Dani: IP Log for Neon.2 - Endgame looking good, no planned fixes known at this time, but if there's a fix for bug 498116, we will consume it

Nov 15, 2016 - Dani, Sergey, Alex, Martin, Lars, McQ

  • Dani: Neon.2 Release Review went out, IP Log will come early Dec.
  • Dani: RC2 build tomorrow + test pass on Wed - last build before PMC approval is required
  • Dani: Bugzilla 4.6.3 milestone created - currently too many bugs targeted 4.6.2, suggest moving out except if there's a patch attached
  • Alex: Lucene - Using Lucene 6 for Platform.UI Indexing, prebuilt indexes of doc bundles need updating
    • Prebuilt indexes of older versions will not be used, the impact is just a slowdown on first startup of help
    • Old-version prebuilt indexes will trigger an entry in the errorlog, so projects will know
    • Q: How much should we push for having a single Lucene in the Release Train? (In Mars we had two)
      • Problem: Moving to Lucene 6 is real porting effort, and it is not possible to be backward compatible
      • EGit or XText, who want to support multiple Eclipse versions, may be allowed to bind against other Lucene by exception; but Planning Council message should be to favor the latest by default
    • Martin: Help Search Result Quality -- Was often critisized due to bad analyzers -- has it improved ?
      • Alex: Lucene 6 has apparently improved things, but team has not explicitly tested these cases
  • All: Understaffed Projects Discussion
    • Dani: Would like to send the message in a positive way: As a tool for interested parties to gain access to the code, and a tool for understaffed projects to bring in committers
    • Alex: Would like to send the message, that Eclipse is open to contributions
      • McQ: Yes, but not at the cost of making existing committers feel bad
      • Lars to draft a new note (next week)
  • Lars: Mylyn Notification API
    • Still on Dani's list of items

Nov 8, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Sergey, Lars, Dani, Alex

  • Dani: Update on N-Builds
    • Releng team will drop N-builds - will also reduce work on the Releng team
    • Retention policies will need to be updated on I-Builds (keep weekly I-Builds)
    • Provide a Hudson job which can mark an I-Build as unstable in case it isn't good
  • Dani: Neon.2
    • Feature Freeze today - Release Review just listing the N&N
    • There was some new API, but it was backported mostly for bug fixes ... nothing relevant for the N&N
    • Agreement that release reviews should be minimal effort - there was never community feedback on the reviews.
  • Lars: Code Reviews on Understaffed Projects
    • Make it easier for known, good people to get access to the code base for reviewing patches
    • We'd still need to know the people - don't offer commit rights to random people
    • Refactorings: Valuable if done by committers, but reviewing patches that are produced by refactorings is too hard
    • Making someone a committer is preferred if there is some commitment to doing work moving forward
    • Sergey: There's too many unreviewed patches against Platform in some areas - we need more committers.
    • Proposal: Offer a shortcut for committers on one component who express interest in another component.
      • Criteria: Provided contributions in the past, and shows interest moving forward.
      • Don't offer commit rights just for one contribution.
      • Consider merging components if a component has become so small that it's unnecessarily hard to contribute
        • On a case by case basis, only if we think that merging components would solve more problems than creating new ones.
    • Dani: Who makes the decision on shortcuts - existing committers, or PMC ?
      • In most cases, committers should have the say - but PMC may interfere if a project looks dysfunctional.
      • AI Alex will write up proposed statement

Nov 1, 2016 - McQ, Sergey, Lars, Dani, Alex

We agreed on the following changes:

  • Create maintenance branch immediately after RC1 instead of after the release. Use the maintenance branch to produce the upcoming release.
  • Eliminate all code freezes on the main branch for RC releases, except for 1-2 days after RC1 before the maintenance branch is created. Freezes to allow test for milestone builds will still be applied (milestone freezes).
  • We decided that we will only have ‘I’-like builds, using always signing.
  • We decided to revisit the decision to always ship from master, but that's a longer discussion and won't happen soon.

Oct 18, 2016 - McQ, Sergey, Martin, Dani, Alex

  • Dani: PMC Approval for Sergey co-lead on Resources (Done)
  • Alex: Lucene Update
    • Looking at updating to 6.x in Oxygen - CQs ongoing for Orbit - hoping to make M4
    • Others like Mylyn, Pydev, ... use Lucene 5.x at this time; others consume the Platform
    • There is some potential breaking things but should be fine since multiple Lucene's in parallel can work.
    • If an old pre-built help index can not be read, a new one is generated (Performance hit on the first run)
    • Dani: No issue, will also update Jetty in M4
  • Dani: Would like to open eclipse.jdt repository and corresponding sub-project to all JDT committers (currently only used for the JDT feature)
    • The project is almost dead with only 2 active committers, since new JDT leads were not voted in
    • Changes to feature will be rare, and Dani agrees to review
    • Allows to put the Oomph setup file into a shared place where all JDT committers have access
    • PROPOSAL AGREED by all.
  • EclipseCon Europe next week - Dani, Lars and Alex will be there - will cancel next week's meeting

Oct 11, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex, Sergey

  • Dani: Neon Update 2 Endgame Plan sent - thanks for the feedback
  • Sergey: We should talk about our release process.
    • McQ asked Sergey to start the discussion via e-mail
  • McQ: What do you think about Devoxx and Eclipse Converge

Oct 4, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex, Sergey

  • Dani: Neon Update 2 Endgame Plan - working on it
  • Dani: Release Review
    • In the past, features were not announced - now for 4.6.2, features + release review must be in by RC1
    • Will do the minimum necessary / required by EMO, for Update Releases.
  • Lars: p2 merge into Equinox status -
  • Sergey: Logistics of dealing with Service Releases
    • Managing version increments is very fragile and error-prone
      • Discussion already happened, see bug 499164 -- we'll not increment minor versions on backports even if API is added
      • AI Dani send a note out to eclipse-dev again
    • New & Noteworthy / Features for Update Releases:
      • If there's new features, there must be a New&Noteworthy for users (everyone agrees)
      • What about doing two feature releases per year with one service release each ?
        • Dani: Not having features in "some" releases would defeat what the Community wanted
        • Alex thinks that allowing features every 6 months would calm down most demand for new features
        • PMC Review of feature backports worked fine so far
        • RESOLUTION Will not change the process before having it settle a bit
          • McQ would love to see a single development stream all the time ...
      • Would the Generic Editor be acceptable in a release before June 2017 ?
        • Tentatively yes, it's a separate bundle not affecting other code, it matters to the Community, so why not...
        • Martin: OK, but what about newly introduced API ... would it be declared "provisional" initially ?
        • Dani: There's no such thing as "provisional API". Teams who decide on backporting must also decide on API.
        • Sergey: CDT has done full feature release every quarter for some time now and hasn't screwed up API...
        • Martin,Lars,Sergey: What about marking "fresh" API as "@noreference under construction" until it's hardened...
          • McQ: Then declare APIs as official only once a year ?
          • Wouldn't want to tie to a yearly cycle again ... but then we're back to the Version Numbering discussion...
          • AI All continue discussion on mailing list or next week.


Sep 27, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex + Sergey Prigogin (guest)

  • Discussion about PMC upstaffing

Sep 20, 2016 - Martin, McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Resources Leadership - AI Dani reach out to Szymon
  • PMC upstaffing: Focus on large installs; UI Freeze monitor, code cleanup, solid solutions, focus on code reviews
  • Dani: Java 9 Moved to July 2017 - AI Dani talk to the Planning Council, proposing an "Update 1" in July
    • Better for consumers, available via "just update", though little bit extra work (CQ + Release Review)
    • Schedule looks still aggressive when looking at specifications; need to keep the team motivated
  • Dani: SelectionListener SWT Change - reverted for M2 since more clients were affected than expected
    • Proposed change turned out to be source-incompatible - will look at a different approach

Sep 13, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Lars

  • Upstaffing the PMC
  • Build failures due to an SWT Change

Sep 6, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Thanks for approving Noopur
  • Dani: Java Language Server Proposal - at the Foundation, will be called "JDT Language Server"
  • Dani: RC4 - Fix for an Equinox p2 issue, only known issue being fixed, looking good
  • Dani: Looking at the generic code editor, would prefer moving some things to M3 (talking to Sopot and Mickael)
  • LTS: Market for paid fixes on old versions not quite as good as expected
  • Release Reviews: When is a feature considered an "important feature" ?
    • Important Features require a full release review thus lots of effort, avoided for Neon.1
    • AI Dani discuss in Planning Council call tomorrow

Aug 30, 2016 - No topics

Aug 23, 2016 - No topics

Aug 16, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Lars

  • Dani will not always be available next two weeks (Eclipse Summit India and IBM Bangalore team visit)
    • Please split the load on +1'ing backport/API requests - please do review the code and set the pmc+1 flag
  • Dani: bug 498106 Oxygen Plan
    • Agreed by all so far, including removal of REL6 as a reference platform
    • Individual subproject Wikis look pretty consistent now
    • UNIX Platforms (Solaris,AIX,HP-UX) have been removed for M1
      • PPC-Linux Releng was also removed but accidentally (due to a hardware failure), will be restored for M2.
    • No consensus on Ubuntu yet - will keep 14.04 in for now, consider taking out on the next update
  • Dani: bug 499164 Version Numbering for Neon.1
    • The original "+5" or "+10" proposal showed some issues:
    • Update with skipping would propagate to features; no tooling; no real benefit of semantic versioning
    • AGREEMENT to keeping using the status quo for now ("allow small updates even with micro uprev only")
  • Lars: p2 pending patches
    • AI Dani send E-Mail to Tom - suggest reviews or merger p2 back to Platform
  • Dani: bug 499399 Eclipse Infrastructure Stability
    • Denis is looking at it - maybe too many requests coming in ?
  • Lars: e4 spy and wizard migration to PDE
    • Dani: Are wizards e4 specific, or could they be used with JFace ?
    • New SWT Layout Spy should go to SWT, rather then keeping in PDE's Build
    • Some spies usable also in RCP Apps - for example the e4 model spy - 6 independent projects, dependency on emf.edit
      • Looks like a big extension to PDE -- consider some consolidation and cleanup (tests, String externalization, ...)
      • AI Lars to check if contributors would be willing to clean up as discussed, then moving into pde.ui would be fine.

Aug 09, 2016 - Dani

  • no one joined - had private conversation with McQ later
    • guys, please announce when you can't join. I can make better use of my time than waiting for you in the call ;-) - thanks.

Aug 02, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: New Oxygen Plan Format
    • AI Dani ask Denis about aggregating the Sub Wiki's into the master page
  • Alex: SWT Fragments for ARM64 etc
    • Tycho doesn't support auto-selecting fragments - in contact with Jan and Tobias
    • Dani: Would like to revert changes - don't want to punish people who are not interested in fragments
    • Not really an SWT problem, so editing .target files would be a clean solution
    • Will probably go with empty (dummy) fragments without natives, as that's the simplest solution
  • Dani: SWT team - Lakshmi going to Sweden, will not be available until end 2016
    • Arun is mostly back, Sravan is now on Releng
    • Need to push further on building at the Foundation!!
    • Alex: Getting CentOS for building ... but test machines are on SLES11, which is too old, will need at least SLES12
      • Dani: Will need an owner at the Eclipse Foundation to ensure this proceeds ! Alex agreed to further drive this.
  • Target Env: Dropping REL6 -- reference platform for testing will only be REL7 (though will continue to run on REL6)
    • Reducing support level this year, in order to prepare for only supporting GTK3 next year

July 26, 2016 - no meeting

July 19, 2016 - no meeting

July 12, 2016 - McQ, Lars, Alex

  • Dani: Hackathon summary

July 5, 2016 - Lars, McQ, Alex, Dani, Martin

  • Lars: SWT move to Java 8
  • Alex: Initial builds of GTK 2.24 for AIX - planning to bump minimum GTK version to 2.24
    • Will remove non-cairo drawing, this is where most of the breakage happens
    • Ubuntu 12.04: 2.24.10 / 3.4.5
    • RHEL 6: 2.24.23-6
    • AIX, HP-UX, Solaris ? -- Oxygen will only focus on Linux, Windows, Mac
    • Secondary Platforms: Not built on EF Hardware, but interested parties can contribute binaries
    • Trying to support Platforms which can't move up to modern GTK at a similar pace as Linux is hard
    • AI Alex write up a message to the Community
  • Lars: bug 486961 extending the Eclipse Text Editor
  • Dani: Build, and Hackathon

June 28, 2016 - McQ, Martin, Alex

  • Discussion about Language Server Protocol
    • MS sponsoring hackathon in Zurich, Dani expected to go there
    • The protocol has an Open Source license, but there is no Open Source Governance ... who owns the specification?

June 21, 2016 -

June 14, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars

  • McQ: Mattermost / Slack for communication
    • not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
  • Lars: Master is Open
    • Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
    • Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
    • Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes (bug 360703) is open to improve that)
    • We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
  • Lars: Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ? - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
  • McQ: Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che (from ide-dev mailing list and bug 496114)
    • The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
    • The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
      • People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
    • The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
    • How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
      • At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
      • But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
  • Dani: What goes into the Neon Update Releases
    • as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
    • AI: Dani will prepare a note
  • Dani: Using Sound in Eclipse
    • Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see bug 496003)
    • Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
    • Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
    • McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so that should really be leveraged
    • Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
    • Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
    • Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.

June 7, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Alex

  • no topics

May 31, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: IP Log
    • The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
    • In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
  • Dani: Release Review
    • Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
  • Dani: Update Jetty to 3.9.3
    • Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
  • Dani: RC4 Status Update
    • Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command

May 24, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Martin

  • Dani: IP Log Generator - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
  • Dani: Release Review - Deadline next week (June 2)
  • Dani: Deprecation Request from Brian
    • Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
  • Dani: Copyright End Date
    • AGREEMENT to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
    • Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
    • Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
    • This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
  • Dani: Neon Status
    • Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time

May 17, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: bug 475184 Neon Plan Update 2
    • Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
    • SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
      • Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
        • Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
      • Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
    • Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
    • AI Dani to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
  • Dani: Copyright End Date - EMO: To be decided per project
    • IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
    • Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
      • gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
    • Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
  • Dani: Policy for Neon.Update Releases - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
    • Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
    • Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
    • Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - decision: discuss feature by feature at PMC
    • Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
    • In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
  • Dani: Neon RC2 Builds Update
    • Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
    • Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
    • GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
    • Lars: bug 493477 detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC

May 10, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Dani: Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases
    • Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
  • Martin: RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2
    • GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
      • Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
    • Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
      • Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
      • There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
      • Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
    • Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
      • Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
      • Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)

May 3, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Brian's request on the PMC list
    • McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
    • Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
    • Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...
    • McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
    • Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
    • ACTION McQ to -1 and argue why.
  • Alex: Update on Accessibility
    • broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
    • due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
    • Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
      • and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
    • Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !

April 26, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
  • Alex: Accessibility - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
    • Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
    • McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
  • Alex: Platform.ui generification of project
    • Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
    • McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
    • Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
    • Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
    • ACTION Alex to prepare a message for review and then send that.
  • Lars: Copyright discussion
    • Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
    • The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
  • Dani: Update on FEEP
    • Paul not reached out yet
    • A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
  • Dani: Update on M7
    • Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
    • Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full


April 19, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)

  • Dani: IP Stuff on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
  • Dani: FEEP discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
    • General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
    • Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
    • Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
  • Dani: All PMC please review and +1 API requests when you find time
    • McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
    • AGREEMENT on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
  • Reviews vs. Features
    • Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora


April 12, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex

  • Lars: Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement
    • bug 485257_c13 EMO: All information is in the git repos
    • McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
    • Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
    • ACTION McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
  • Lars: bug 490012 Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE
    • Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
    • Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
    • Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
    • DECISION to get rid of the strict error per project.
  • Dani: bug 475934 API Change on model processing order
    • Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
    • McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
    • McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
      • Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
      • Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
      • Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
    • Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
    • DECISION to allow making the change and announce widely.
  • Dani: FEEP and EMO Hiring Update
    • EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
    • Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
    • Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
  • Dani: IDE-dev proposal
    • People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
    • Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
      • McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
      • OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.

April 5, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: FEEP Update
    • Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
    • Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
    • Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
  • Dani: Solaris 32-bit
    • Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
    • Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
      • Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
    • McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
  • Dani: New Solstice Welcome
    • Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
    • Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
    • McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
  • Alex: FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)
    • "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
      • Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
      • It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
      • McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
    • Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
      • AI Dani send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
      • AI Martin compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
    • Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
    • Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
      • McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
      • Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
      • McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal Transparency on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
      • McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
        • Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: THIS is what the FEEP should have adressed !
    • Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
    • Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
      • McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
    • Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
  • Lars Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy
    • Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).

March 29, 2016 - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex

  • Lars: PDE Build in Maintenance - Officially state this ?
    • PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
    • Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
    • McQ: DECISION Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
  • Lars: Integrate more projects into Platform UI?
    • Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
    • Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
    • Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
    • DECISION to not merge projects at this time.
  • Lars: Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list
    • McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
    • Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
    • Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. AI Dani notify mailing list.
  • Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
    • Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"

March 22, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
  • Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
  • Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
  • Discussion about Che
    • McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
    • Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
    • McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?

March 15, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)
  • Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
  • McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
  • Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
  • Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
    • Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
    • Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
    • Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
  • VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
    • Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
    • Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)

March 8, 2016 - No call

March 1, 2016 - Dani, Martin

  • Dani OOO next week
  • Alex: bug 179924 SSH-agent authentication 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
    • Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
    • Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
  • EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.

February 23, 2016 - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex

  • Dani: Mars.2 is on track
  • Dani: FEEP Update
    • EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
  • Dani: Update on Welcome
    • Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
  • McQ: Scrollbars on Windows and their appearance
    • Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
    • Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
    • McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
    • Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
    • Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
    • Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).

February 16, 2016 - Alex, Dani, Martin

  • no topics

February 9, 2016 - Alex, McQ, Dani

  • Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
  • Dani: please take a look at bug 466370 Welcome Screen redesign
  • Dani: please take a look at bug 472614 Smart Project Importer

February 2, 2016 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Dani: Foundation Hires - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
  • Dani: Neon M5 went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
  • Dani: CQ Deadline on Feb.12 for Neon
  • Dani: bug 486647 for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
    • With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
    • Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
      • Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
      • We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
      • Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
    • Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default

January 26, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
  • Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
  • Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track

January 19, 2016 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
  • Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
    • Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
  • Dani: bug 485429 PDE Build - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
    • Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement in the Platform
    • Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
    • Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
    • Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
  • Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
    • Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
  • SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
  • Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
    • Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
  • Martin: Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?
    • Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
    • Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
      • Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
    • Debian or SuSE should be OK;
    • Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2

January 12, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Upstaffing the PMC
    • Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
  • Dani: Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
  • Dani: bug 485429 Remove PDE Build from our drops?
    • Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
    • McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
    • Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
  • Dani: bug 485257 Copyright Policy Change - waiting on EMO/Legal input
  • Alex: Updating SWT to Java7
  • McQ: Travel for EclipseCon

January 5, 2016 - McQ, Dani

  • Dani: PMC Membership

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