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= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
−
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
−
'''September 19, 2012'''
+
'''Oct 18, 2016''' - McQ, Sergey, Martin, Dani, Alex
−
* Martin: Juno patch feature for {{bug|381407}} and {{bug|383890}} ?
+
* Dani: '''PMC Approval for Sergey co-lead on Resources''' (Done)
−
** This got fixed by a re-spin of RC4
+
* Alex: '''Lucene Update'''
 +
** Looking at updating to 6.x in Oxygen - CQs ongoing for Orbit - hoping to make M4
 +
** Others like Mylyn, Pydev, ... use Lucene 5.x at this time; others consume the Platform
 +
** There is some potential breaking things but should be fine since multiple Lucene's in parallel can work.
 +
** If an old pre-built help index can not be read, a new one is generated (Performance hit on the first run)
 +
** Dani: No issue, will also update Jetty in M4
 +
* Dani: Would like to open '''eclipse.jdt''' repository and corresponding sub-project to all JDT committers (currently only used for the JDT feature)
 +
** The project is almost dead with only 2 active committers, since new JDT leads were not voted in
 +
** Changes to feature will be rare, and Dani agrees to review
 +
** Allows to put the Oomph setup file into a shared place where all JDT committers have access
 +
** PROPOSAL AGREED by all.
 +
* EclipseCon Europe next week - Dani, Lars and Alex will be there - will '''cancel next week's meeting'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''September 12, 2012''' - Andrew, Dani, John, Martin
+
'''Oct 11, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex, Sergey
−
* John: '''CBI Build''' - good progress with Thanh from EMO visiting Platform Team's offices this week
+
* Dani: '''Neon Update 2 Endgame Plan sent''' - thanks for the feedback
−
** Focus on Juno Stream because LTS builds need to get done
+
* Sergey: We should talk about our release process.
−
** Can produce an SDK but cannot produce many of the other artifacts (That's good enough for LTS which only needs a p2 repo)
+
** McQ asked Sergey to start the discussion via e-mail
−
** Can claim readiness only when binary bits are the same (p2 comparator tool from Olivier - which does byte code level compare of class files, and binary comparison of other files)
+
* McQ: What do you think about Devoxx and Eclipse Converge
−
* John: '''4.x Performance''' - Several people on the team actively looking at issues, some problems identified, some not yet reproduced
+
−
** Some work started on re-enabling Performance tests
+
−
** start running on virtual machines to see whether dedicated machines are needed or not
+
−
** How to improve the process integrating people / resources / donations from companies (EMO pushes towards more contributions)
+
−
*** Need more committers for longer term, not only short-term patch contributors
+
−
* Andrew: '''FOSDEM''' Europe (Brussels) coming up - Ian Skerret going to reserve a room, asking for people to join, good conference, lots of cross-pollination
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''September 5, 2012''' - Andrew, Dani, Martin
+
'''Oct 4, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex, Sergey
−
* Martin: '''Windows 8''' testing ? - Filed {{bug|388560}} to get "Windows 8" added to bugzilla
+
* Dani: '''Neon Update 2 Endgame Plan''' - working on it
−
** Dani: Initial testing by SWT team didn't reveal anything; Dani in favor of getting W8 deployed on Hudson once it is out officially
+
* Dani: '''Release Review'''
−
** Should consider adding to the Kepler plan; consider backports to Juno SR for issues found
+
** In the past, features were not announced - now for 4.6.2, features + release review must be in by RC1
−
* Martin: '''3.8 vs 4.2''' - posting on [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev/msg08123.html cross-project list]
+
** Will do the minimum necessary / required by EMO, for Update Releases.
−
** Need to look at stack traces in detail eg {{bug|385272}}. Watch how that E-Mail thread evolves.
+
* Lars: '''p2 merge into Equinox status''' -  
−
* Dani: '''Go/No-Go''' decision process for RC's - to be discussed in the Arch call
+
* Sergey: '''Logistics of dealing with Service Releases'''
 +
** Managing version increments is very fragile and error-prone
 +
*** Discussion already happened, see {{bug|499164}} -- we'll not increment minor versions on backports even if API is added
 +
*** '''AI Dani''' send a note out to eclipse-dev again
 +
** '''New & Noteworthy / Features for Update Releases:'''
 +
*** If there's new features, there must be a New&Noteworthy for users (everyone agrees)
 +
*** What about doing two feature releases per year with one service release each ?
 +
**** Dani: Not having features in "some" releases would defeat what the Community wanted
 +
**** Alex thinks that allowing features every 6 months would calm down most demand for new features
 +
**** PMC Review of feature backports worked fine so far
 +
**** '''RESOLUTION''' Will not change the process before having it settle a bit
 +
***** McQ would love to see a single development stream all the time ...
 +
*** Would the Generic Editor be acceptable in a release before June 2017 ?
 +
**** Tentatively yes, it's a separate bundle not affecting other code, it matters to the Community, so why not...
 +
**** Martin: OK, but what about newly introduced API ... would it be declared "provisional" initially ?
 +
**** Dani: There's no such thing as "provisional API". Teams who decide on backporting must also decide on API.
 +
**** Sergey: CDT has done full feature release every quarter for some time now and hasn't screwed up API...
 +
**** Martin,Lars,Sergey: What about marking "fresh" API as "@noreference under construction" until it's hardened...
 +
***** McQ: Then declare APIs as official only once a year ?
 +
***** Wouldn't want to tie to a yearly cycle again ... but then we're back to the Version Numbering discussion...
 +
***** '''AI All''' continue discussion on mailing list or next week.
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''August 29, 2012:''' - John, Dani, Martin
+
'''Sep 27, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex + Sergey Prigogin (guest)
−
* John: Bugzilla's new auto-duplicate-find ... Dani likes it but moved suggestions somewhere else with Greasemonkey to avoid interfering with typing
+
* Discussion about PMC upstaffing
−
* Tom Watson: Big changes coming in Equinox for Java modularity - thought about Kepler but will wait for another year in a branch
+
−
** Java 8 also won't be in Kepler ... so will likely be kind of a Maintenance Release
+
−
* Dani: [[Version Numbering]] document is a bit unclear about upreving from a n.n.2
+
−
** RESOLUTION: desire is clarifying the next is n.n.100
+
−
* Dani: '''Delete files from CVS projects''' and add a README ?
+
−
** Yes if it can be done in an automated way .. to avoid confusion about outdated sources
+
−
*** eg README points to a Wiki page
+
−
*** John: Keep the .project in place such that jumping from version to version doesn't break a workspace
+
−
*** Martin: Acceptance criterion that importing from scmurl in MANIFEST.MF still works (when choosing the tag ... choosing HEAD should bring up the README)
+
−
* John: '''Plan Update upcoming'''
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''August 15, 2012:''' - John, Dani, Andrew
+
'''Sep 20, 2016''' - Martin, McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex
−
* Do we support removal of bugzilla CLOSED state? Resolved: yes we do
+
* Resources Leadership - '''AI Dani''' reach out to Szymon
−
* Discussion of long term release plans beyond Kepler
+
* PMC upstaffing: Focus on large installs; UI Freeze monitor, code cleanup, solid solutions, focus on code reviews
 +
* Dani: '''Java 9 Moved to July 2017''' - AI Dani talk to the Planning Council, proposing an "Update 1" in July
 +
** Better for consumers, available via "just update", though little bit extra work (CQ + Release Review)
 +
** Schedule looks still aggressive when looking at specifications; need to keep the team motivated
 +
* Dani: '''SelectionListener SWT Change''' - reverted for M2 since more clients were affected than expected
 +
** Proposed change turned out to be source-incompatible - will look at a different approach
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''August 8, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''Sep 13, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Lars
−
* Dani: News from Jeff
+
* Upstaffing the PMC
−
* McQ vacation from August 13 to August 31
+
* Build failures due to an SWT Change
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''July 25, 2012:'''
+
'''Sep 6, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin
−
* '''CBI Build'''
+
* Dani: Thanks for approving Noopur
−
** For SR1, the build can produce what the Release Train needs ... but not all the extra validation
+
* Dani: Java Language Server Proposal - at the Foundation, will be called "JDT Language Server"
−
** Need to run both builds for now ... until the CBI team's bytecode verifier produces the same output
+
* Dani: RC4 - Fix for an Equinox p2 issue, only known issue being fixed, looking good
−
** CBI team continues to look at the list of diffs and improve their builder
+
* Dani: Looking at the generic code editor, would prefer moving some things to M3 (talking to Sopot and Mickael)
−
** Platform team would be OK dropping the legacy build once the bytecode validator has no diffs
+
* LTS: Market for paid fixes on old versions not quite as good as expected
−
** Platform team can't commit more resources to CBI now (Paul Webster already heavily involved)
+
* Release Reviews: When is a feature considered an "important feature" ?
−
* '''Losing Commits on the Orion git repo'''
+
** Important Features require a full release review thus lots of effort, avoided for Neon.1
−
** Dozen commits or so
+
** '''AI Dani''' discuss in Planning Council call tomorrow
−
** Might be a defect in the Orion git tools, but the server side should prevent that !!!
+
−
** DenyNonFastForward should have protected ... need an extra layer of protection ?
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''June 27, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
<strike>Aug 30, 2016 - No topics</strike>
−
* Eclipse Demo Camps - none in Ottawa
+
−
* Going to skip the arch calls for all of July - leave the PMC slot in place.
+
−
* Should keep an eye on the Community feedback for Eclipse 4
+
  
 +
<strike>Aug 23, 2016 - No topics</strike>
 +
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''Aug 16, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars
 +
* Dani will not always be available next two weeks (Eclipse Summit India and IBM Bangalore team visit)
 +
** Please split the load on +1'ing backport/API requests - please do review the code and set the pmc+1 flag
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|498106}} Oxygen Plan'''
 +
** Agreed by all so far, including removal of REL6 as a reference platform
 +
** Individual subproject Wikis look pretty consistent now
 +
** UNIX Platforms (Solaris,AIX,HP-UX) have been removed for M1
 +
*** PPC-Linux Releng was also removed but accidentally (due to a hardware failure), will be restored for M2.
 +
** No consensus on Ubuntu yet - will keep 14.04 in for now, consider taking out on the next update
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|499164}} Version Numbering for Neon.1'''
 +
** The original "+5" or "+10" proposal showed some issues:
 +
** Update with skipping would propagate to features; no tooling; no real benefit of semantic versioning
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to keeping using the status quo for now ("allow small updates even with micro uprev only")
 +
* Lars: '''p2 pending patches'''
 +
** '''AI Dani''' send E-Mail to Tom - suggest reviews or merger p2 back to Platform
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|499399}} Eclipse Infrastructure Stability'''
 +
** Denis is looking at it - maybe too many requests coming in ?
 +
* Lars: '''e4 spy and wizard migration to PDE'''
 +
** Dani: Are wizards e4 specific, or could they be used with JFace ?
 +
** New SWT Layout Spy should go to SWT, rather then keeping in PDE's Build
 +
** Some spies usable also in RCP Apps - for example the e4 model spy - 6 independent projects, dependency on emf.edit
 +
*** Looks like a big extension to PDE -- consider some consolidation and cleanup (tests, String externalization, ...)
 +
*** '''AI Lars''' to check if contributors would be willing to clean up as discussed, then moving into pde.ui would be fine.
 +
<hr/>
 +
 +
'''Aug 09, 2016''' - Dani
 +
* no one joined - had private conversation with McQ later
 +
** '''guys, please announce when you can't join. I can make better use of my time than waiting for you in the call ;-) - thanks.'''
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''June 13, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
 
  
−
* Discussed the ECF rebuild request ({{bug|382206}}). Arguments in favor: it is a safe change, it reverts the situation to where it was in RC3 and earlier. Arguments against summarized in https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=382206#c20.
+
'''Aug 02, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* We will need to tag the release but we can wait until we are officially done (week of June 25th).
+
* Dani: New [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_7_draft.xml Oxygen Plan Format]
 +
** '''AI Dani''' ask Denis about aggregating the Sub Wiki's into the master page
 +
* Alex: SWT Fragments for ARM64 etc
 +
** Tycho doesn't support auto-selecting fragments - in contact with Jan and Tobias
 +
** Dani: Would like to revert changes - don't want to punish people who are not interested in fragments
 +
** Not really an SWT problem, so editing .target files would be a clean solution
 +
** Will probably go with empty (dummy) fragments without natives, as that's the simplest solution
 +
* Dani: SWT team - Lakshmi going to Sweden, will not be available until end 2016
 +
** Arun is mostly back, Sravan is now on Releng
 +
** Need to push further on building at the Foundation!!
 +
** Alex: Getting CentOS for building ... but test machines are on SLES11, which is too old, will need at least SLES12
 +
*** Dani: Will need an owner at the Eclipse Foundation to ensure this proceeds ! Alex agreed to further drive this.
 +
* Target Env: Dropping REL6 -- reference platform for testing will only be REL7 (though will continue to run on REL6)
 +
** Reducing support level this year, in order to prepare for only supporting GTK3 next year
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''June 6, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John, Andrew
 
  
−
* Discussion of how to handle test failures for final build. Most of the remaining failures are infrastructure issues related to our move to Hudson for tests. We will document the failures through bugs, and include a note on the build results page for the final build explaining the failures
+
'''July 26, 2016''' - no meeting
−
* Discussion of whether we need a 3.9 release. Unanimous conclusion was that we do not see a need for it. Reducing to one stream will greatly reduce our development overhead and encourage consolidation around the single stream.
+
 
−
* Discussion of how to handle the disappearance of org.eclipse.equinox.concurrent from our RC3 builds. This was never deliberately included in the platform, but was present due to a greedy optional dependency from ECF. By very close 3/2 decision PMC decided to leave it alone and document the disappearance in porting guide, readme file, release review material, and cross-project list.
+
'''July 19, 2016''' - no meeting
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''July 12, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Alex
 +
* Dani: Hackathon summary
  
−
'''May 23, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
+
<hr/>
−
* McQ: '''CBI / Tycho builder''': Paul Webster driving Platform efforts (AI Martin notify about {{bug|359719}})
+
'''July 5, 2016''' - Lars, McQ, Alex, Dani, Martin
−
* Martin: {{bug|380984}} ant / Orbit respin? - Unclear for now
+
* Lars: SWT move to Java 8
−
* McQ: Finally figured out some long-standing bug eg "Variables view sometimes empty"
+
* Alex: Initial builds of GTK 2.24 for AIX - planning to bump minimum GTK version to 2.24
−
** Dani: It's 2 issues: First-time switch to Perspective deferred to 4.2.1, but {{bug|379818}} is finally fixed
+
** Will remove non-cairo drawing, this is where most of the breakage happens
−
** The actual underlying defect had been in there for years
+
** Ubuntu 12.04: 2.24.10 / 3.4.5
 +
** RHEL 6: 2.24.23-6
 +
** AIX, HP-UX, Solaris ? -- Oxygen will only focus on Linux, Windows, Mac
 +
** Secondary Platforms: Not built on EF Hardware, but interested parties can contribute binaries
 +
** Trying to support Platforms which can't move up to modern GTK at a similar pace as Linux is hard
 +
** '''AI Alex''' write up a message to the Community
 +
* Lars: {{bug|486961}} extending the Eclipse Text Editor
 +
** Dani: Text Editor must remain unchanged, but feel free to provide a new different code editor
 +
** https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=496114#c7
 +
** Not against adding extension points ... but having the standard text editor adopt those is a no-go
 +
* Dani: Build, and Hackathon
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 16, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
'''June 28, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Alex
−
* Dani: '''Version Number''' in branding features gets auto-generated and 3.8 version is now higher than 4.2 (since 3.8 build runs after 3.8)
+
* Discussion about Language Server Protocol
−
** John thinks it's not a big deal
+
** MS sponsoring hackathon in Zurich, Dani expected to go there
−
* John: '''CBI Patches''' - CBI has lots of patches downstream in their POM's ... RC2 is the last chance getting that in
+
** The protocol has an Open Source license, but there is no Open Source Governance ... who owns the specification?
−
** Auto-generating the POM.XML would be nice but that's not how things work today
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 9, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Dani
+
'''June 21, 2016''' -  
−
* John: Classic update can still be enabled via capabilities - should we remove it?
+
*  
−
** Dani: in general "yes", but too late now
+
−
** McQ: too late, but make sure we do it for Kepler
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 2, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew, John
+
'''June 14, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars
−
* John: '''Forking of SWT''' 3.8 and 4.2 are now separate Streams with CTabFolder implementation being the only difference
+
* McQ: '''Mattermost / Slack''' for communication
−
* Dani: '''Icons''' (not discussed)
+
** not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
 +
* Lars: '''Master is Open'''
 +
** Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
 +
** Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
 +
** Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes ({{bug|360703}}) is open to improve that)
 +
** We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
 +
* Lars: '''Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ?''' - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
 +
* McQ: '''Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che''' (from [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ide-dev/ ide-dev] mailing list and {{bug|496114}})
 +
** The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
 +
** The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
 +
*** People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
 +
** The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
 +
** How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
 +
*** At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
 +
*** But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
 +
* Dani: '''What goes into the Neon Update Releases'''
 +
** as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
 +
** '''AI: Dani''' will prepare a note
 +
* Dani: '''Using Sound in Eclipse'''
 +
** Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see {{bug|496003}})
 +
** Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
 +
** Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
 +
** McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so '''that''' should really be leveraged
 +
** Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
 +
** Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
 +
** Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.
 +
 
 +
'''June 7, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex
 +
* no topics
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''April 18, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew, John
+
'''May 31, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex
−
* Martin: [[E4/Scripting]] initiative
+
* Dani: '''IP Log'''
−
** McQ thinks the E4 Application Model should be exposed as a DOM to scripting .. anything other than utilizing the e4 DOM for hiding a view feels wrong
+
** The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
−
*** Martin: Approach is very pragmatic - don't see anybody investing into new Frameworks at this point but converging on what already exists
+
** In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
−
*** If this goes towards macro recording, the recorder should utilize the e4 app model
+
* Dani: '''Release Review'''
−
** Signing up on the [https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-scripting-dev eclipse-scripting-dev] mailing list will keep people in the loop (expect low volume)
+
** Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
−
* Dani: '''API Approval Process''' Approval on Bug plus sent to eclipse-pmc list (like last year)
+
* Dani: '''Update Jetty to 3.9.3'''
−
* John: '''PDE Committers''' - perception of not being open
+
** Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
−
** McQ would like to see a plan item for next year "actively promote more committers from outside"
+
* Dani: '''RC4 Status Update'''
−
* Martin: [[Asterisk]] - will need a dialin for Dani in Switzerland; '''AI Dani''' forward his dialin to Martin for the time being
+
** Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''April 11, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew, John
+
'''May 24, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin
−
* Martin: '''LTS vs Quality/Fixes in Current Stream''' - Like John's reply making the link between the two
+
* Dani: '''IP Log Generator''' - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
−
* McQ/John: '''Builds''' - Moving forward
+
* Dani: '''Release Review''' - Deadline next week (June 2)
−
* McQ: '''CBI Builds''' - Platform not going to take any ownership but will be a consumer like others - still shooting for Juno SR1
+
* Dani: '''Deprecation Request from Brian'''
−
* Andrew: '''4.2 Builds in Fedora 17''' - Testing now
+
** Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
−
* McQ: '''IBM Ottawa Team moving to new building''' - expect delays during next couple days
+
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date'''
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
 +
** Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
 +
** Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
 +
** This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
 +
* Dani: '''Neon Status'''
 +
** Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''April 4, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''May 17, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
−
* Dani: '''VM Requirements''' - Help no longer works on Java 5, this surprised some people... but Project Plan talks about a Java 6 req now
+
* Dani: '''{{Bug|475184}} Neon Plan Update 2'''
−
** Martin suggestion: on the "Required JVM" table in the Project Plan, add a 2nd column with closure of BREE including all pre-reqs (continue having 1st column the BREE of the bundle itself auto-generated)
+
** Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
−
* Dani: '''Jeff still mentioned as PMC member'''
+
** SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
−
** '''AI Dani''' send E-Mail
+
*** Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
−
* Martin: '''Concern about Platform Quality''' - eg SWT Redraws on 3.7.x - Old-time committers moving away
+
**** Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
−
** McQ: Platform team's focus will continue being maintenance, and new Platform support ... team's capacity is going down, but SWT is not affected mosted
+
*** Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
−
** Martin: Code contributions are easy, hi-quality triage and review are harder
+
** Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
−
** Martin: Re-think the idea of having committers paid by the Foundation and Member Companies paying their share
+
** '''AI Dani''' to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
−
*** Example: Why would Pascal review p2 in his sparetime ... but if he gets paid per bug his experience can be extremely valuable
+
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date''' - EMO: To be decided per project
−
*** Be more creative on resourcing side
+
** IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
−
** McQ: In favor of putting more structure in place similar to LTS ("hire people for fixes") ... just continue with LTS ?
+
** Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
−
*** IBM will have a need for fixes for at least another 8 years .. but that's a very self-serving focus
+
*** gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
−
** [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''AI Martin''' send E-Mail to Mike to keep the ball rolling
+
** Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
−
* Dani: {{bug|375292}} '''Reference to Marketplace in the SDK'''
+
* Dani: '''Policy for Neon.Update Releases''' - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
−
** Martin: "Classic" is a Building Block but "Packages" are for end users
+
** Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
−
** McQ: The purity of the SDK in itself isn't relevant
+
** Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
−
*** Martin: Why not just create a new package "Classic" which is at +3 and pulls in egit + marketplace ... the process for building is all in place, may just need a package reviewer
+
** Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - '''decision''': discuss feature by feature at PMC
−
*** [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''AI Martin''' mail Markus
+
** Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
 +
** In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
 +
* Dani: '''Neon RC2 Builds Update'''
 +
** Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
 +
** Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
 +
** GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
 +
** Lars: {{bug|493477}} detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''March 21, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Andrew, Martin
+
'''May 10, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
−
* McQ '''Oracle Java on Mac'''
+
* Dani: '''Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases'''
−
* Dani '''denyNonFastForward'''
+
** Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
−
* McQ '''JDT Team might see some losses'''
+
* Martin: '''RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2'''
−
* Andrew '''Running OpenJDK tests now on ARM''' :)
+
** GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
 +
*** Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
 +
** Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
 +
*** Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
 +
*** There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
 +
*** Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
 +
** Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
 +
*** Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
 +
*** Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''March 14, 2012:''' - McQ, Andrew, Dani, John
+
'''May 3, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
−
* Losing Eclipse project release engineer next week
+
* [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02598.html Brian's request on the PMC list]
−
* David Williams is stepping in to help with our builds until Juno
+
** McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
−
* Most immediate issue is that our build needs elevated privileges to tag, sign, and promote builds
+
** Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
−
** kmoir was the only committer with sufficient privileges
+
** Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...
−
** We either need to give another committer sufficient rights, or give build user access it needs
+
** McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
−
** Could use hooks to ensure build user isn't doing anything other than tagging
+
** Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
−
** All agreed the build user approach was the best option. John to open bug against foundation to carry it out
+
** '''ACTION''' McQ to -1 and argue why.
 +
 
 +
* Alex: '''Update on Accessibility'''
 +
** broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
 +
** due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
 +
** Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
 +
*** and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
 +
** Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''March 7, 2012:''' - McQ, Andrew, Martin, John
+
'''April 26, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ
−
* John: '''API Deletions''' {{bug|370248}} - PMC agrees.
+
* Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
−
* McQ: '''Common Build Infrastructure at the Foundation'''
+
* Alex: '''Accessibility''' - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
−
** Shipping Platform Juno bits built by PDE ... but Foundation wants EPP packages built by Tycho; Platform can't support this
+
** Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
−
*** Reason might be that 4.2 is planned to be the start of LTS and VLTS .. ok for now if LTS bits are different since not publicly available
+
** McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
−
*** Plus, LTS really starts after Juno SR2 ... Platform might be in a better position for Tycho by then
+
* Alex: '''Platform.ui generification of project'''
−
*** In Linux, Fedora also builds by themselves ... but assumption is that people come to Fedora support first
+
** Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
−
** Martin, Andrew really concerned about fragmentation and duplication of effort ... eg what if the qualifiers don't match
+
** McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
−
** Should be treated as proof of concept but not publicly available until Juno SR2, in order to avoid fragmentation !
+
** Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
 +
** Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
 +
** '''ACTION Alex''' to prepare a message for review and then send that.
 +
* Lars: '''Copyright discussion'''
 +
** Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
 +
** The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
 +
* Dani: '''Update on FEEP'''
 +
** Paul not reached out yet
 +
** A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
 +
* Dani: '''Update on M7'''
 +
** Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
 +
** Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full
 +
 
 +
<br/>
 +
'''April 19, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)
 +
* Dani: '''IP Stuff''' on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
 +
* Dani: '''FEEP''' discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
 +
** General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
 +
** Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
 +
** Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
 +
* Dani: '''All PMC please review and +1 API requests''' when you find time
 +
** McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
 +
* '''Reviews vs. Features'''
 +
** Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora
 +
 
 +
<br/>
 +
'''April 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex
 +
* Lars: '''Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement'''
 +
** [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=485257#c13 bug 485257_c13] EMO: All information is in the git repos
 +
** McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
 +
** Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
 +
** '''ACTION''' McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
 +
 
 +
* Lars: '''{{bug|490012}} Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE'''
 +
** Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
 +
** Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
 +
** Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
 +
** '''DECISION''' to get rid of the strict error per project.
 +
 
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|475934}} API Change on model processing order'''
 +
** Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
 +
** McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
 +
** McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
 +
*** Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
 +
*** Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
 +
*** Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
 +
** Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
 +
** '''DECISION''' to allow making the change and announce widely.
 +
 
 +
* Dani: '''FEEP and EMO Hiring Update'''
 +
** EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
 +
** Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
 +
** Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
 +
 
 +
* Dani: '''IDE-dev proposal'''
 +
** People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
 +
** Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
 +
*** McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
 +
*** OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''February 29, 2012:''' - Dani, McQ, John, Martin, Andrew
+
'''April 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
−
* John: Orion team received a box full of '''Black Ducks''' to honour their Black Duck Rookie of the Year award
+
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
−
* Dani: '''Gerrit Move'''
+
** Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
−
** John: Important information needs to stay in Bugzilla ... don't pull from outside git exclusively
+
** Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
−
* Andrew: '''Platform Defect Contest'''
+
** Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
−
** McQ concern: Lots of duplicate bugs would take focus away from the team
+
* Dani: '''Solaris 32-bit'''
−
** Martin: Could encourage triage as part of the contest, and only count good/new bugs
+
** Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
−
** John: Some low-hanging fruit bugs in Platform UI but not necessarily in 4.x ("helpwanted")
+
** Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
−
** John: Re-introduce the "greatbug" keyword ?
+
*** Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
−
*** A greatbug is relevant, new, good description that helps understanding/finding the issue; ideally with a patch.
+
** McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
−
*** Resolution: '''AI John''' send note to Mike
+
* Dani: '''New Solstice Welcome'''
−
* John: '''PDE API Moved'''
+
** Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
−
** Some internal, provisional API was migrated to full API in this release
+
** Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
−
** Someone from SAP (Dimitar Giormov) Asked adding back the provisional API such that they could support 2 versions of Eclipse with one codebase
+
** McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
−
** McQ: Would have helped them 4 years ago .. but at the moment don't have enough people
+
* Alex: '''FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)'''
−
*** McQ: Question how pervasive their use of the old API is ... how much Reflection would they need to put int
+
** "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
−
*** One resolution could be OK but only if they provide all the patches
+
*** Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
−
** This kind of duplication is error prone and adds a maintenance burden on the project
+
*** It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
 +
*** McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
 +
** Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
 +
*** '''AI Dani''' send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
 +
** Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
 +
** Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
 +
*** McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
 +
*** Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
 +
*** McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal '''Transparency''' on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
 +
*** McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
 +
**** Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: '''THIS''' is what the FEEP should have adressed !
 +
** Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
 +
** Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
 +
*** McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
 +
** Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
 +
* Lars '''Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy'''
 +
** Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''February 22, 2012:''' - Dani, McQ, John, Andrew
+
'''March 29, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex
−
* Repeat of PDE build discussion from last week. We decided to nominate John Arthorne as a committer so we at least have someone to accept community patches. We will revisit after Juno and perhaps do a larger restructuring
+
* Lars: '''PDE Build in Maintenance''' - Officially state this ?
−
* Communication with eGit: We have written some patches for eGit that have been growing stale. Dani will review the patches, and then send an email to eGit lead asking if there is a particular reason for not accepting them. If there is no problem with the patches we will track down an eGit committer to release them.
+
** PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
−
* Andrew asked about process for approving CQs:
+
** Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
−
** Any PMC member can feel free to approve CQs
+
** McQ: '''DECISION''' Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
−
** New versions of existing third party libraries are a no-brainer, typically just +1 right away
+
* Lars: '''Integrate more projects into Platform UI?'''
−
** For new third party libraries we may need a PMC discussion about why the library is needed, what feature it will live in, etc
+
** Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
−
** For code contributions just make sure the legal process has been followed and then +1. We generally trust the judgement of the committer who will process the contribution.
+
** Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
 +
** Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
 +
** '''DECISION''' to not merge projects at this time.
 +
* Lars: '''Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list'''
 +
** McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
 +
** Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
 +
** Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. '''AI Dani''' notify mailing list.
 +
* Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
 +
** Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''February 15, 2012:''' - Dani, McQ, John
+
'''March 22, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* Some discussion of what to do with PDE Build, which lacks committers. PDE as a whole has barely enough committers to be a functioning project, so maybe we should be looking at a larger restructuring after
+
* Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
−
Juno rather than one piece at a time. We lacked quorum to make a decision so we will defer discussion to another week.
+
* Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
 +
* Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
 +
* Discussion about Che
 +
** McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
 +
** Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
 +
** McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?
  
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''March 15, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* Dani: '''Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)'''
 +
* Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
 +
* McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
 +
* Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
 +
* Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
 +
** Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
 +
** Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
 +
** Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
 +
* VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
 +
** Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
 +
** Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)
 +
 +
'''March 8, 2016''' - No call
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''February 8, 2012:''' - Dani, Martin, Andrew, McQ
+
'''March 1, 2016''' - Dani, Martin
−
* Andrew: Eclipse stand at '''FOSDEM in Brussles'''
+
* Dani OOO next week
−
** Lots of people just dropped by to say hi and thanks
+
* Alex: '''{{bug|179924}} SSH-agent authentication''' 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
−
** Mike Milinkovich was showing off Orion; Gunnar and Andrew did others (Web, EclipseRT, C/C++)
+
** Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
−
* McQ: '''4.2 Quality''' ... current list of defects looks manageable to tick all off .. any messaging we want to do ?
+
** Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
 +
* EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''February 1, 2012:''' - Dani, Martin, John
+
'''February 23, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex
−
* Dani: '''No UA Committers any more''' - move UA under Platform UI such that at least somebody can apply patches
+
* Dani: '''Mars.2 is on track'''
−
** AI John check with Wayne ... UA is a subcomponent now, may not even need a move review.
+
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
−
* Dani: {{bug|343150}} git '''DenyNonFastForward'''
+
** EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
−
** Orion could eventually add tooling to support easy workflows in spite of deny on the repo ... but not in this release
+
* Dani: '''Update on Welcome'''
−
** Ping on the bug again and proceed
+
** Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
−
* John: Decide when to switch 4.2 builds from re-using 3.x binary bundles vs full 4.x builds
+
* McQ: '''Scrollbars on Windows''' and their appearance
−
** Today, the 4.x testsuite just tests 4.x specific stuff; things like JDT tests just run against 3.8 today
+
** Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
−
** Today, cannot generate Javadocs in 4.x today sine it needs the full source
+
** Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
−
** Today, nightlies are running 3.x only (could change to running 4.x nightlies only)
+
** McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
−
** Today, 3.x builds run at IBM and 4.x builds run at Eclipse.org
+
** Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
−
** Only few test failures left in the 4.x builds --&gt; ready to switch
+
** Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
−
** AI: '''Kim''' to send 4.x test results to the mailing list, consider switching right after M5
+
** Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).
−
** '''Performance Tests:''' Not yet run on 4.x yet - should be able to run on Denis' vserver
+
−
*** IBM is going to lose the physical machines for performance tests in 2 weeks ! (Going to migrate to vserver too!)
+
−
*** Need a new baseline
+
−
** Andrew: at '''FOSSLC''' in Brussels this week, going to represent Eclipse with Mike Milinkovich, Gunnar Wagenknecht and others
+
−
* '''Gerrit''': Platform won't jump in as an early adopter this time, wait for other projects first
+
−
** Not all Platform Unittests can run on Hudson today (need at least some fingerprint tests to get value from Gerrit)
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''January 25, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew, Dani
 
−
* McQ: '''Note about 4.2 on Release Train'''
 
−
* Andrew: '''Eclipse 4.2 for Fedora''' - Feature note written for Eclipse Juno led to some discussion at Eng.Steering Committee, but finally approved
 
−
* Dani: Team down by 1 but no impact (Dani is going to take over responsibilities)
 
−
* John: '''Build Failures in UA, Update, PDE, p2 yesterday''' after the move to Java 7... nobody watching these, need to find caretakers
 
−
** UA tests often fail due to a link validity checker, these can be caused by anyone
 
−
** Certificate Validity issue (Jar signing)
 
  
 +
'''February 16, 2016''' - Alex, Dani, Martin
 +
* no topics
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''January 18, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew, Dani
+
 
−
* McQ: '''4.2 quality''' and next steps
+
'''February 9, 2016''' - Alex, McQ, Dani
−
** More resources found to enable 4.2 as the LTS base - encouraging, although some items still missing
+
* Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
−
** Fedora 17 think about shipping 4.2m6 (work ongoing) - that would be a large stack on top of 4.2
+
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|466370}} Welcome Screen redesign
−
** John: '''Oracle Java 7 as Reference Platform''' now that the most severe issues are fixed (Java 6 EOL is June 2012 !) - that is Oracle, not OpenJDK
+
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|472614}} Smart Project Importer
−
*** Not remove Java 6 for now
+
−
*** Fedora also does all tests on 7
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''January 11, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
 
−
* McQ: '''State of Presentation API's'''
+
'''February 2, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
−
** Different API's in 4.2 and 3.x -- will need to deprecate API in 3.x
+
* Dani: '''Foundation Hires''' - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
−
** Christian suggested deleting API that's not implemented in 4.x to get compile errors ... John thinks that binary compatibility is more important
+
* Dani: '''Neon M5''' went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
−
*** Plugins will be "mostly OK", presentation API is cosmetic anyways
+
* Dani: '''CQ Deadline''' on Feb.12 for Neon
−
** McQ: get in touch with clients who use presentation API, telling them what's best to do ... often newer 4.x infrastructure is much better than trying to keep 3.x around forever
+
* Dani: {{bug|486647}} for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
−
* Andrew: '''Cairo and GTK3'''
+
** With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
−
* John: '''4.2 compiling now'''
+
** Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
−
* Martin: '''Updated JSch-0.1.44 version''' - how to announce properly
+
*** Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
−
** AI Martin Announce on eclipse-dev and cross-project
+
*** We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
−
** Should also put into migrtion notes and README
+
*** Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
 +
** Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''January 4, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''January 26, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars
−
* McQ: Pascal's note about p2 leadership .. not sure who could step in and make a commitment (may see the same fate as UA)
+
* Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
−
** Tom Watson looking for candidates, but looks like none in McQ's team
+
* Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
 +
* Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''January 19, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
 +
* Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
 +
** Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
 +
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''PDE Build''' - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
 +
** Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement '''in the Platform'''
 +
** Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
 +
** Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
 +
** Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
 +
* Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
 +
** Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
 +
* SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
 +
* Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
 +
** Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
 +
* Martin: '''Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?'''
 +
** Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
 +
** Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
 +
*** Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
 +
** Debian or SuSE should be OK;
 +
** Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''January 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* Dani: '''Upstaffing the PMC'''
 +
** Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
 +
* Dani: '''Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng''' - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
 +
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''Remove PDE Build from our drops?'''
 +
** Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
 +
** McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
 +
** Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
 +
* Dani: {{bug|485257}} '''Copyright Policy Change''' - waiting on EMO/Legal input
 +
* Alex: '''Updating SWT to Java7'''
 +
* McQ: '''Travel for EclipseCon'''
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''January 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani
 +
* Dani: '''PMC Membership'''
 +
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Revision as of 11:33, 18 October 2016

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

Oct 18, 2016 - McQ, Sergey, Martin, Dani, Alex

  • Dani: PMC Approval for Sergey co-lead on Resources (Done)
  • Alex: Lucene Update
    • Looking at updating to 6.x in Oxygen - CQs ongoing for Orbit - hoping to make M4
    • Others like Mylyn, Pydev, ... use Lucene 5.x at this time; others consume the Platform
    • There is some potential breaking things but should be fine since multiple Lucene's in parallel can work.
    • If an old pre-built help index can not be read, a new one is generated (Performance hit on the first run)
    • Dani: No issue, will also update Jetty in M4
  • Dani: Would like to open eclipse.jdt repository and corresponding sub-project to all JDT committers (currently only used for the JDT feature)
    • The project is almost dead with only 2 active committers, since new JDT leads were not voted in
    • Changes to feature will be rare, and Dani agrees to review
    • Allows to put the Oomph setup file into a shared place where all JDT committers have access
    • PROPOSAL AGREED by all.
  • EclipseCon Europe next week - Dani, Lars and Alex will be there - will cancel next week's meeting

Oct 11, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex, Sergey

  • Dani: Neon Update 2 Endgame Plan sent - thanks for the feedback
  • Sergey: We should talk about our release process.
    • McQ asked Sergey to start the discussion via e-mail
  • McQ: What do you think about Devoxx and Eclipse Converge

Oct 4, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex, Sergey

  • Dani: Neon Update 2 Endgame Plan - working on it
  • Dani: Release Review
    • In the past, features were not announced - now for 4.6.2, features + release review must be in by RC1
    • Will do the minimum necessary / required by EMO, for Update Releases.
  • Lars: p2 merge into Equinox status -
  • Sergey: Logistics of dealing with Service Releases
    • Managing version increments is very fragile and error-prone
      • Discussion already happened, see bug 499164 -- we'll not increment minor versions on backports even if API is added
      • AI Dani send a note out to eclipse-dev again
    • New & Noteworthy / Features for Update Releases:
      • If there's new features, there must be a New&Noteworthy for users (everyone agrees)
      • What about doing two feature releases per year with one service release each ?
        • Dani: Not having features in "some" releases would defeat what the Community wanted
        • Alex thinks that allowing features every 6 months would calm down most demand for new features
        • PMC Review of feature backports worked fine so far
        • RESOLUTION Will not change the process before having it settle a bit
          • McQ would love to see a single development stream all the time ...
      • Would the Generic Editor be acceptable in a release before June 2017 ?
        • Tentatively yes, it's a separate bundle not affecting other code, it matters to the Community, so why not...
        • Martin: OK, but what about newly introduced API ... would it be declared "provisional" initially ?
        • Dani: There's no such thing as "provisional API". Teams who decide on backporting must also decide on API.
        • Sergey: CDT has done full feature release every quarter for some time now and hasn't screwed up API...
        • Martin,Lars,Sergey: What about marking "fresh" API as "@noreference under construction" until it's hardened...
          • McQ: Then declare APIs as official only once a year ?
          • Wouldn't want to tie to a yearly cycle again ... but then we're back to the Version Numbering discussion...
          • AI All continue discussion on mailing list or next week.


Sep 27, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex + Sergey Prigogin (guest)

  • Discussion about PMC upstaffing

Sep 20, 2016 - Martin, McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Resources Leadership - AI Dani reach out to Szymon
  • PMC upstaffing: Focus on large installs; UI Freeze monitor, code cleanup, solid solutions, focus on code reviews
  • Dani: Java 9 Moved to July 2017 - AI Dani talk to the Planning Council, proposing an "Update 1" in July
    • Better for consumers, available via "just update", though little bit extra work (CQ + Release Review)
    • Schedule looks still aggressive when looking at specifications; need to keep the team motivated
  • Dani: SelectionListener SWT Change - reverted for M2 since more clients were affected than expected
    • Proposed change turned out to be source-incompatible - will look at a different approach

Sep 13, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Lars

  • Upstaffing the PMC
  • Build failures due to an SWT Change

Sep 6, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Thanks for approving Noopur
  • Dani: Java Language Server Proposal - at the Foundation, will be called "JDT Language Server"
  • Dani: RC4 - Fix for an Equinox p2 issue, only known issue being fixed, looking good
  • Dani: Looking at the generic code editor, would prefer moving some things to M3 (talking to Sopot and Mickael)
  • LTS: Market for paid fixes on old versions not quite as good as expected
  • Release Reviews: When is a feature considered an "important feature" ?
    • Important Features require a full release review thus lots of effort, avoided for Neon.1
    • AI Dani discuss in Planning Council call tomorrow

Aug 30, 2016 - No topics

Aug 23, 2016 - No topics

Aug 16, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Lars

  • Dani will not always be available next two weeks (Eclipse Summit India and IBM Bangalore team visit)
    • Please split the load on +1'ing backport/API requests - please do review the code and set the pmc+1 flag
  • Dani: bug 498106 Oxygen Plan
    • Agreed by all so far, including removal of REL6 as a reference platform
    • Individual subproject Wikis look pretty consistent now
    • UNIX Platforms (Solaris,AIX,HP-UX) have been removed for M1
      • PPC-Linux Releng was also removed but accidentally (due to a hardware failure), will be restored for M2.
    • No consensus on Ubuntu yet - will keep 14.04 in for now, consider taking out on the next update
  • Dani: bug 499164 Version Numbering for Neon.1
    • The original "+5" or "+10" proposal showed some issues:
    • Update with skipping would propagate to features; no tooling; no real benefit of semantic versioning
    • AGREEMENT to keeping using the status quo for now ("allow small updates even with micro uprev only")
  • Lars: p2 pending patches
    • AI Dani send E-Mail to Tom - suggest reviews or merger p2 back to Platform
  • Dani: bug 499399 Eclipse Infrastructure Stability
    • Denis is looking at it - maybe too many requests coming in ?
  • Lars: e4 spy and wizard migration to PDE
    • Dani: Are wizards e4 specific, or could they be used with JFace ?
    • New SWT Layout Spy should go to SWT, rather then keeping in PDE's Build
    • Some spies usable also in RCP Apps - for example the e4 model spy - 6 independent projects, dependency on emf.edit
      • Looks like a big extension to PDE -- consider some consolidation and cleanup (tests, String externalization, ...)
      • AI Lars to check if contributors would be willing to clean up as discussed, then moving into pde.ui would be fine.

Aug 09, 2016 - Dani

  • no one joined - had private conversation with McQ later
    • guys, please announce when you can't join. I can make better use of my time than waiting for you in the call ;-) - thanks.

Aug 02, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: New Oxygen Plan Format
    • AI Dani ask Denis about aggregating the Sub Wiki's into the master page
  • Alex: SWT Fragments for ARM64 etc
    • Tycho doesn't support auto-selecting fragments - in contact with Jan and Tobias
    • Dani: Would like to revert changes - don't want to punish people who are not interested in fragments
    • Not really an SWT problem, so editing .target files would be a clean solution
    • Will probably go with empty (dummy) fragments without natives, as that's the simplest solution
  • Dani: SWT team - Lakshmi going to Sweden, will not be available until end 2016
    • Arun is mostly back, Sravan is now on Releng
    • Need to push further on building at the Foundation!!
    • Alex: Getting CentOS for building ... but test machines are on SLES11, which is too old, will need at least SLES12
      • Dani: Will need an owner at the Eclipse Foundation to ensure this proceeds ! Alex agreed to further drive this.
  • Target Env: Dropping REL6 -- reference platform for testing will only be REL7 (though will continue to run on REL6)
    • Reducing support level this year, in order to prepare for only supporting GTK3 next year

July 26, 2016 - no meeting

July 19, 2016 - no meeting

July 12, 2016 - McQ, Lars, Alex

  • Dani: Hackathon summary

July 5, 2016 - Lars, McQ, Alex, Dani, Martin

  • Lars: SWT move to Java 8
  • Alex: Initial builds of GTK 2.24 for AIX - planning to bump minimum GTK version to 2.24
    • Will remove non-cairo drawing, this is where most of the breakage happens
    • Ubuntu 12.04: 2.24.10 / 3.4.5
    • RHEL 6: 2.24.23-6
    • AIX, HP-UX, Solaris ? -- Oxygen will only focus on Linux, Windows, Mac
    • Secondary Platforms: Not built on EF Hardware, but interested parties can contribute binaries
    • Trying to support Platforms which can't move up to modern GTK at a similar pace as Linux is hard
    • AI Alex write up a message to the Community
  • Lars: bug 486961 extending the Eclipse Text Editor
  • Dani: Build, and Hackathon

June 28, 2016 - McQ, Martin, Alex

  • Discussion about Language Server Protocol
    • MS sponsoring hackathon in Zurich, Dani expected to go there
    • The protocol has an Open Source license, but there is no Open Source Governance ... who owns the specification?

June 21, 2016 -

June 14, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars

  • McQ: Mattermost / Slack for communication
    • not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
  • Lars: Master is Open
    • Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
    • Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
    • Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes (bug 360703) is open to improve that)
    • We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
  • Lars: Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ? - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
  • McQ: Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che (from ide-dev mailing list and bug 496114)
    • The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
    • The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
      • People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
    • The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
    • How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
      • At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
      • But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
  • Dani: What goes into the Neon Update Releases
    • as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
    • AI: Dani will prepare a note
  • Dani: Using Sound in Eclipse
    • Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see bug 496003)
    • Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
    • Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
    • McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so that should really be leveraged
    • Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
    • Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
    • Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.

June 7, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Alex

  • no topics

May 31, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: IP Log
    • The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
    • In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
  • Dani: Release Review
    • Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
  • Dani: Update Jetty to 3.9.3
    • Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
  • Dani: RC4 Status Update
    • Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command

May 24, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Martin

  • Dani: IP Log Generator - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
  • Dani: Release Review - Deadline next week (June 2)
  • Dani: Deprecation Request from Brian
    • Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
  • Dani: Copyright End Date
    • AGREEMENT to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
    • Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
    • Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
    • This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
  • Dani: Neon Status
    • Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time

May 17, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: bug 475184 Neon Plan Update 2
    • Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
    • SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
      • Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
        • Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
      • Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
    • Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
    • AI Dani to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
  • Dani: Copyright End Date - EMO: To be decided per project
    • IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
    • Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
      • gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
    • Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
  • Dani: Policy for Neon.Update Releases - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
    • Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
    • Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
    • Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - decision: discuss feature by feature at PMC
    • Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
    • In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
  • Dani: Neon RC2 Builds Update
    • Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
    • Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
    • GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
    • Lars: bug 493477 detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC

May 10, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Dani: Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases
    • Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
  • Martin: RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2
    • GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
      • Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
    • Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
      • Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
      • There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
      • Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
    • Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
      • Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
      • Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)

May 3, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Brian's request on the PMC list
    • McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
    • Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
    • Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...
    • McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
    • Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
    • ACTION McQ to -1 and argue why.
  • Alex: Update on Accessibility
    • broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
    • due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
    • Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
      • and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
    • Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !

April 26, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
  • Alex: Accessibility - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
    • Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
    • McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
  • Alex: Platform.ui generification of project
    • Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
    • McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
    • Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
    • Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
    • ACTION Alex to prepare a message for review and then send that.
  • Lars: Copyright discussion
    • Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
    • The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
  • Dani: Update on FEEP
    • Paul not reached out yet
    • A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
  • Dani: Update on M7
    • Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
    • Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full


April 19, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)

  • Dani: IP Stuff on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
  • Dani: FEEP discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
    • General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
    • Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
    • Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
  • Dani: All PMC please review and +1 API requests when you find time
    • McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
    • AGREEMENT on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
  • Reviews vs. Features
    • Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora


April 12, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex

  • Lars: Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement
    • bug 485257_c13 EMO: All information is in the git repos
    • McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
    • Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
    • ACTION McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
  • Lars: bug 490012 Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE
    • Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
    • Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
    • Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
    • DECISION to get rid of the strict error per project.
  • Dani: bug 475934 API Change on model processing order
    • Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
    • McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
    • McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
      • Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
      • Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
      • Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
    • Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
    • DECISION to allow making the change and announce widely.
  • Dani: FEEP and EMO Hiring Update
    • EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
    • Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
    • Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
  • Dani: IDE-dev proposal
    • People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
    • Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
      • McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
      • OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.

April 5, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: FEEP Update
    • Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
    • Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
    • Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
  • Dani: Solaris 32-bit
    • Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
    • Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
      • Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
    • McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
  • Dani: New Solstice Welcome
    • Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
    • Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
    • McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
  • Alex: FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)
    • "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
      • Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
      • It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
      • McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
    • Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
      • AI Dani send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
      • AI Martin compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
    • Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
    • Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
      • McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
      • Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
      • McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal Transparency on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
      • McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
        • Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: THIS is what the FEEP should have adressed !
    • Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
    • Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
      • McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
    • Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
  • Lars Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy
    • Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).

March 29, 2016 - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex

  • Lars: PDE Build in Maintenance - Officially state this ?
    • PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
    • Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
    • McQ: DECISION Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
  • Lars: Integrate more projects into Platform UI?
    • Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
    • Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
    • Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
    • DECISION to not merge projects at this time.
  • Lars: Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list
    • McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
    • Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
    • Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. AI Dani notify mailing list.
  • Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
    • Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"

March 22, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
  • Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
  • Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
  • Discussion about Che
    • McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
    • Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
    • McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?

March 15, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)
  • Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
  • McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
  • Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
  • Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
    • Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
    • Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
    • Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
  • VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
    • Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
    • Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)

March 8, 2016 - No call

March 1, 2016 - Dani, Martin

  • Dani OOO next week
  • Alex: bug 179924 SSH-agent authentication 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
    • Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
    • Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
  • EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.

February 23, 2016 - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex

  • Dani: Mars.2 is on track
  • Dani: FEEP Update
    • EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
  • Dani: Update on Welcome
    • Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
  • McQ: Scrollbars on Windows and their appearance
    • Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
    • Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
    • McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
    • Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
    • Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
    • Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).

February 16, 2016 - Alex, Dani, Martin

  • no topics

February 9, 2016 - Alex, McQ, Dani

  • Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
  • Dani: please take a look at bug 466370 Welcome Screen redesign
  • Dani: please take a look at bug 472614 Smart Project Importer

February 2, 2016 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Dani: Foundation Hires - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
  • Dani: Neon M5 went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
  • Dani: CQ Deadline on Feb.12 for Neon
  • Dani: bug 486647 for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
    • With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
    • Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
      • Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
      • We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
      • Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
    • Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default

January 26, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
  • Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
  • Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track

January 19, 2016 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
  • Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
    • Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
  • Dani: bug 485429 PDE Build - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
    • Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement in the Platform
    • Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
    • Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
    • Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
  • Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
    • Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
  • SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
  • Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
    • Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
  • Martin: Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?
    • Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
    • Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
      • Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
    • Debian or SuSE should be OK;
    • Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2

January 12, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Upstaffing the PMC
    • Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
  • Dani: Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
  • Dani: bug 485429 Remove PDE Build from our drops?
    • Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
    • McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
    • Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
  • Dani: bug 485257 Copyright Policy Change - waiting on EMO/Legal input
  • Alex: Updating SWT to Java7
  • McQ: Travel for EclipseCon

January 5, 2016 - McQ, Dani

  • Dani: PMC Membership

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