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= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
'''January 25, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew, Dani
+
'''Oct 18, 2016''' - McQ, Sergey, Martin, Dani, Alex
* McQ: '''Note about 4.2 on Release Train'''
+
* Dani: '''PMC Approval for Sergey co-lead on Resources''' (Done)
* Andrew: '''Eclipse 4.2 for Fedora''' - Feature note written for Eclipse Juno led to some discussion at Eng.Steering Committee, but finally approved
+
* Alex: '''Lucene Update'''
* Dani: Team down by 1 but no impact (Dani is going to take over responsibilities)
+
** Looking at updating to 6.x in Oxygen - CQs ongoing for Orbit - hoping to make M4
* John: '''Build Failures in UA, Update, PDE, p2 yesterday''' after the move to Java 7... nobody watching these, need to find caretakers
+
** Others like Mylyn, Pydev, ... use Lucene 5.x at this time; others consume the Platform
** UA tests often fail due to a link validity checker, these can be caused by anyone
+
** There is some potential breaking things but should be fine since multiple Lucene's in parallel can work.
** Certificate Validity issue (Jar signing)
+
** If an old pre-built help index can not be read, a new one is generated (Performance hit on the first run)
 +
** Dani: No issue, will also update Jetty in M4
 +
* Dani: Would like to open '''eclipse.jdt''' repository and corresponding sub-project to all JDT committers (currently only used for the JDT feature)
 +
** The project is almost dead with only 2 active committers, since new JDT leads were not voted in
 +
** Changes to feature will be rare, and Dani agrees to review
 +
** Allows to put the Oomph setup file into a shared place where all JDT committers have access
 +
** PROPOSAL AGREED by all.
 +
* EclipseCon Europe next week - Dani, Lars and Alex will be there - will '''cancel next week's meeting'''
  
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''Oct 11, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex, Sergey
 +
* Dani: '''Neon Update 2 Endgame Plan sent''' - thanks for the feedback
 +
* Sergey: We should talk about our release process.
 +
** McQ asked Sergey to start the discussion via e-mail
 +
* McQ: What do you think about Devoxx and Eclipse Converge
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 18, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew, Dani
+
'''Oct 4, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex, Sergey
* McQ: '''4.2 quality''' and next steps
+
* Dani: '''Neon Update 2 Endgame Plan''' - working on it
** More resources found to enable 4.2 as the LTS base - encouraging, although some items still missing
+
* Dani: '''Release Review'''
** Fedora 17 think about shipping 4.2m6 (work ongoing) - that would be a large stack on top of 4.2
+
** In the past, features were not announced - now for 4.6.2, features + release review must be in by RC1
** John: '''Oracle Java 7 as Reference Platform''' now that the most severe issues are fixed (Java 6 EOL is June 2012 !) - that is Oracle, not OpenJDK
+
** Will do the minimum necessary / required by EMO, for Update Releases.
*** Not remove Java 6 for now
+
* Lars: '''p2 merge into Equinox status''' -  
*** Fedora also does all tests on 7
+
* Sergey: '''Logistics of dealing with Service Releases'''
 +
** Managing version increments is very fragile and error-prone
 +
*** Discussion already happened, see {{bug|499164}} -- we'll not increment minor versions on backports even if API is added
 +
*** '''AI Dani''' send a note out to eclipse-dev again
 +
** '''New & Noteworthy / Features for Update Releases:'''
 +
*** If there's new features, there must be a New&Noteworthy for users (everyone agrees)
 +
*** What about doing two feature releases per year with one service release each ?
 +
**** Dani: Not having features in "some" releases would defeat what the Community wanted
 +
**** Alex thinks that allowing features every 6 months would calm down most demand for new features
 +
**** PMC Review of feature backports worked fine so far
 +
**** '''RESOLUTION''' Will not change the process before having it settle a bit
 +
***** McQ would love to see a single development stream all the time ...
 +
*** Would the Generic Editor be acceptable in a release before June 2017 ?
 +
**** Tentatively yes, it's a separate bundle not affecting other code, it matters to the Community, so why not...
 +
**** Martin: OK, but what about newly introduced API ... would it be declared "provisional" initially ?
 +
**** Dani: There's no such thing as "provisional API". Teams who decide on backporting must also decide on API.
 +
**** Sergey: CDT has done full feature release every quarter for some time now and hasn't screwed up API...
 +
**** Martin,Lars,Sergey: What about marking "fresh" API as "@noreference under construction" until it's hardened...
 +
***** McQ: Then declare APIs as official only once a year ?
 +
***** Wouldn't want to tie to a yearly cycle again ... but then we're back to the Version Numbering discussion...
 +
***** '''AI All''' continue discussion on mailing list or next week.
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 11, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''Sep 27, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex + Sergey Prigogin (guest)
* McQ: '''State of Presentation API's'''
+
* Discussion about PMC upstaffing
** Different API's in 4.2 and 3.x -- will need to deprecate API in 3.x
+
** Christian suggested deleting API that's not implemented in 4.x to get compile errors ... John thinks that binary compatibility is more important
+
*** Plugins will be "mostly OK", presentation API is cosmetic anyways
+
** McQ: get in touch with clients who use presentation API, telling them what's best to do ... often newer 4.x infrastructure is much better than trying to keep 3.x around forever
+
* Andrew: '''Cairo and GTK3'''
+
* John: '''4.2 compiling now'''
+
* Martin: '''Updated JSch-0.1.44 version''' - how to announce properly
+
** AI Martin Announce on eclipse-dev and cross-project
+
** Should also put into migrtion notes and README
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 4, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''Sep 20, 2016''' - Martin, McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex
* McQ: Pascal's note about p2 leadership .. not sure who could step in and make a commitment (may see the same fate as UA)
+
* Resources Leadership - '''AI Dani''' reach out to Szymon
** Tom Watson looking for candidates, but looks like none in McQ's team
+
* PMC upstaffing: Focus on large installs; UI Freeze monitor, code cleanup, solid solutions, focus on code reviews
 +
* Dani: '''Java 9 Moved to July 2017''' - AI Dani talk to the Planning Council, proposing an "Update 1" in July
 +
** Better for consumers, available via "just update", though little bit extra work (CQ + Release Review)
 +
** Schedule looks still aggressive when looking at specifications; need to keep the team motivated
 +
* Dani: '''SelectionListener SWT Change''' - reverted for M2 since more clients were affected than expected
 +
** Proposed change turned out to be source-incompatible - will look at a different approach
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''December 14, 2011:''' - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Andrew
+
'''Sep 13, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Lars
* API Tooling Baseline comparison 3.7 vs 4.2 -- problematic since API was copied
+
* Upstaffing the PMC
* {{bug|343150}} git '''denyNonFastForward''' ie forbid commits that rewrite history ... looking for general policy ... Eclipse Project to adopt immediately.
+
* Build failures due to an SWT Change
** Andrew: Denis may roll out the change to all repos
+
** Resolution: Wait until after Christmas, if not rolled out by then move forward ourselves
+
* McQ (Tom Watson): '''Leadership for p2 team'''
+
* John: '''4.2 Builder switching to Hudson for M5''' - not all of the UI tests compile
+
** Lot of test failures
+
** Just flip the switch to Hudson, and live with failures at some point ... (and commit to fixing test failures as fast as we can)
+
** Fixing a components' test is the component team's job.
+
* Vacations: '''Skip next 2 weeks'''
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''December 7, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin
+
'''Sep 6, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin
* Martin: {{bug|365908}} with 4.2m4 not picking up extensions from dropins/
+
* Dani: Thanks for approving Noopur
* John / Dani - XML problems breaking the build due to a "Help Index Generation" ant task
+
* Dani: Java Language Server Proposal - at the Foundation, will be called "JDT Language Server"
* John / Anrew - '''Hudson Failures''', Platform fortunately not there
+
* Dani: RC4 - Fix for an Equinox p2 issue, only known issue being fixed, looking good
** Reasons: Hudson can't tag and can't deploy to downloads
+
* Dani: Looking at the generic code editor, would prefer moving some things to M3 (talking to Sopot and Mickael)
** John: It makes sense that the Hudson user can't write to the Repo
+
* LTS: Market for paid fixes on old versions not quite as good as expected
** Orion: Start from a shellscript (for tagging), then kick off a Hudson build partway through
+
* Release Reviews: When is a feature considered an "important feature" ?
 +
** Important Features require a full release review thus lots of effort, avoided for Neon.1
 +
** '''AI Dani''' discuss in Planning Council call tomorrow
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''November 30, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin, McQ
+
<strike>Aug 30, 2016 - No topics</strike>
* Andrew - '''Long Term Support'''. McQ - Overlap is in the build technology, can't be done for Juno (still busy with git + hudson), but happy to consume what's being developed
+
** Foundation contracted with Sonatype (Igor) for moving to Tycho, but just analyzing the current build may take 4 months
+
** Linuxtools currently using a small ant wrapper which just calls the Platform build (generate a source tarball such that linux distros can consume Platform from source;
+
* Martin - '''User Assistance Situation'''
+
** Chris G moved to Jazz - Rest of the IBM team completely maxed already, would fix critical security defects only
+
** Some work has been done by other IBM committers.. could release patches, but can't be responsive to fixes
+
** There's an opportunity for others in the Community to step in and set the direction
+
** McQ: The only one most important issue at the moment is compliance with the new US Government accessibility regulations
+
** Newer Lucene; Help Search Stemming problems; nobody actively tracking the inbox
+
** John: Have been moving "committer-less" components into the general Platform component where 12+ committers have commit rights
+
** McQ: Platform project Zombies is OK, but having somebody step up would be better
+
** John: 3rd party dependencies... help has a few, eg upgrading to Jetty (managed by Chris before he left)
+
*** Lucene: Merged with SOLR, then 3 releases came out in the past 3 months, no Foundation CQ's in ... John interested in adopting Orion
+
*** Been in contact with Gunnar Wagenknecht who is also interested, but newer Lucene pulls in more dependencies than it needs
+
** Failing Search : would need an exact bug report where the search is failing, then McQ could get product teams excited
+
** John: Orion problem with older lucene is that it's leaking file handles ... less of a problem for Platform where we index only once
+
* John - {{bug|363948}} '''Eclipse 3.8 to 4.2 update'''
+
** Fix would involve changing metadata in p2 such that a 3.8 update wouldn't find 4.2 automatically, unless a specific update is requested
+
** That fix leverages what Pascal from p2 considers a bug
+
** Products could manage the problem by not adding the Juno repository.. but there's lots of things in Juno that people would want (eg egit, cdt, ...)
+
*** Fix that John thinks about would be on the product level
+
  
 +
<strike>Aug 23, 2016 - No topics</strike>
 +
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''Aug 16, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars
 +
* Dani will not always be available next two weeks (Eclipse Summit India and IBM Bangalore team visit)
 +
** Please split the load on +1'ing backport/API requests - please do review the code and set the pmc+1 flag
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|498106}} Oxygen Plan'''
 +
** Agreed by all so far, including removal of REL6 as a reference platform
 +
** Individual subproject Wikis look pretty consistent now
 +
** UNIX Platforms (Solaris,AIX,HP-UX) have been removed for M1
 +
*** PPC-Linux Releng was also removed but accidentally (due to a hardware failure), will be restored for M2.
 +
** No consensus on Ubuntu yet - will keep 14.04 in for now, consider taking out on the next update
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|499164}} Version Numbering for Neon.1'''
 +
** The original "+5" or "+10" proposal showed some issues:
 +
** Update with skipping would propagate to features; no tooling; no real benefit of semantic versioning
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to keeping using the status quo for now ("allow small updates even with micro uprev only")
 +
* Lars: '''p2 pending patches'''
 +
** '''AI Dani''' send E-Mail to Tom - suggest reviews or merger p2 back to Platform
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|499399}} Eclipse Infrastructure Stability'''
 +
** Denis is looking at it - maybe too many requests coming in ?
 +
* Lars: '''e4 spy and wizard migration to PDE'''
 +
** Dani: Are wizards e4 specific, or could they be used with JFace ?
 +
** New SWT Layout Spy should go to SWT, rather then keeping in PDE's Build
 +
** Some spies usable also in RCP Apps - for example the e4 model spy - 6 independent projects, dependency on emf.edit
 +
*** Looks like a big extension to PDE -- consider some consolidation and cleanup (tests, String externalization, ...)
 +
*** '''AI Lars''' to check if contributors would be willing to clean up as discussed, then moving into pde.ui would be fine.
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''November 23, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew
 
* Discussion of whether to turn on auto-tagging in maintenance builds. General agreement this is a good idea. We would not have a separate "integration" branch for maintenance streams.
 
* Some discussion of EclipseCon submissions. PC voting is underway and program should be decided in the next two weeks. There is a great program of submissions so far, and it will be tough to select the talks that will make the cut.
 
  
 +
'''Aug 09, 2016''' - Dani
 +
* no one joined - had private conversation with McQ later
 +
** '''guys, please announce when you can't join. I can make better use of my time than waiting for you in the call ;-) - thanks.'''
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''October 26, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew, McQ
 
  
* Approve Paul Webster as Platform UI project lead
+
'''Aug 02, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
** Committer vote [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-ui-dev/msg04980.html here].
+
* Dani: New [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_7_draft.xml Oxygen Plan Format]
** The PMC members unanimously approve this nomination
+
** '''AI Dani''' ask Denis about aggregating the Sub Wiki's into the master page
** John to send note to EMO
+
* Alex: SWT Fragments for ARM64 etc
* Some discussion of the Eclipse Platform UI Git disaster - {{bug|361707}}
+
** Tycho doesn't support auto-selecting fragments - in contact with Jan and Tobias
** Currently any committer can delete everything from the repository permanently
+
** Dani: Would like to revert changes - don't want to punish people who are not interested in fragments
** The commit hook prevents committers from restoring commits made by others that they have in their local clone
+
** Not really an SWT problem, so editing .target files would be a clean solution
**  
+
** Will probably go with empty (dummy) fragments without natives, as that's the simplest solution
 +
* Dani: SWT team - Lakshmi going to Sweden, will not be available until end 2016
 +
** Arun is mostly back, Sravan is now on Releng
 +
** Need to push further on building at the Foundation!!
 +
** Alex: Getting CentOS for building ... but test machines are on SLES11, which is too old, will need at least SLES12
 +
*** Dani: Will need an owner at the Eclipse Foundation to ensure this proceeds ! Alex agreed to further drive this.
 +
* Target Env: Dropping REL6 -- reference platform for testing will only be REL7 (though will continue to run on REL6)
 +
** Reducing support level this year, in order to prepare for only supporting GTK3 next year
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''October 12, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ
+
 
* PMC upstaffing - looking for more Community input
+
'''July 26, 2016''' - no meeting
* egit bug backlog
+
 
* e4 builds
+
'''July 19, 2016''' - no meeting
* p2 downloadable archived repos
+
* Moving to 4.x
+
** Community is moving ... any product that's not planned for EOL needs to move
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''October 5, 2011:''' - Dani, John, McQ
+
'''July 12, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Alex
* Some discussion of removing CVS from the SDK ({{bug|359466}}). There is no strong argument for removing it, so it is hard to argue for disruption to user community. In the end we would like CVS to be removed and would like it to be just as easy to install any SCM into the platform. We would like to see the p2 discovery UI used to make it trivial to add SCM support into SDK (Help > Add Version Control > CVS). Once we had that in place we would be in a better position to remove CVS by default.
+
* Dani: Hackathon summary
* We also discussed the Git line delimiter problems. Current recommendation:
+
** core.autocrlf=false - not honoured by JGit so this makes things worse
+
** Use Global workspace setting to use Unix line feeds by default
+
** Encourage projects to add a project-specific setting to use Unix line feeds
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 21, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Martin
+
'''July 5, 2016''' - Lars, McQ, Alex, Dani, Martin
* Dani: '''git''' - Mac / Linux using scripts, tooling not yet ready for Windows ... productivity lacks
+
* Lars: SWT move to Java 8
** painful when working across multiple repositories ... problematic workflow for reviewing incoming changes
+
* Alex: Initial builds of GTK 2.24 for AIX - planning to bump minimum GTK version to 2.24
** John: egit could fetch automatically in the background (without merge)
+
** Will remove non-cairo drawing, this is where most of the breakage happens
* John: '''used platforms poll'''
+
** Ubuntu 12.04: 2.24.10 / 3.4.5
** Results visible once voted: [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/platform-poll.php platform-poll.php]
+
** RHEL 6: 2.24.23-6
 +
** AIX, HP-UX, Solaris ? -- Oxygen will only focus on Linux, Windows, Mac
 +
** Secondary Platforms: Not built on EF Hardware, but interested parties can contribute binaries
 +
** Trying to support Platforms which can't move up to modern GTK at a similar pace as Linux is hard
 +
** '''AI Alex''' write up a message to the Community
 +
* Lars: {{bug|486961}} extending the Eclipse Text Editor
 +
** Dani: Text Editor must remain unchanged, but feel free to provide a new different code editor
 +
** https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=496114#c7
 +
** Not against adding extension points ... but having the standard text editor adopt those is a no-go
 +
* Dani: Build, and Hackathon
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 14, 2011:''' - John, McQ, Dani, Martin
+
'''June 28, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Alex
* Martin: '''PMC membership''' - still looking for people to ask after Steve and Jeff left
+
* Discussion about Language Server Protocol
* John: '''Jetty 8''' - should be using Jetty from Eclipse (Jetty 7 ist stable, Jetty 8 is current) but API changes after Jetty 6
+
** MS sponsoring hackathon in Zurich, Dani expected to go there
** eg standalone help - AI John to ping Chris G;
+
** The protocol has an Open Source license, but there is no Open Source Governance ... who owns the specification?
** No longer re-exporting Jetty API since 3.6 (deprecated api, introduced replacements)
+
** releng, would need Jetty at -1 if using current from train .. makes builds a bit more messy again
+
** check with Equinox
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 7, 2011:''' - John, McQ
+
'''June 21, 2016''' -  
* State of building Juno at eclipse.org: we are close but still some issues with the tests. Transition to Git halted our progress on this. Once the Git migration is complete, we should just make the switch over and live with the pain of some failing tests. Component teams will need to help with diagnosing problems with their tests.
+
*  
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 31, 2011:''' - Dani, John
+
'''June 14, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars
 +
* McQ: '''Mattermost / Slack''' for communication
 +
** not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
 +
* Lars: '''Master is Open'''
 +
** Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
 +
** Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
 +
** Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes ({{bug|360703}}) is open to improve that)
 +
** We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
 +
* Lars: '''Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ?''' - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
 +
* McQ: '''Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che''' (from [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ide-dev/ ide-dev] mailing list and {{bug|496114}})
 +
** The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
 +
** The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
 +
*** People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
 +
** The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
 +
** How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
 +
*** At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
 +
*** But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
 +
* Dani: '''What goes into the Neon Update Releases'''
 +
** as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
 +
** '''AI: Dani''' will prepare a note
 +
* Dani: '''Using Sound in Eclipse'''
 +
** Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see {{bug|496003}})
 +
** Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
 +
** Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
 +
** McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so '''that''' should really be leveraged
 +
** Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
 +
** Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
 +
** Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.
  
* We need to pull the new ICU4J out of maintenance release because the fix didn't pass review in time. We will defer to Indigo SR2
+
'''June 7, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex
* Some discussion of the treatment of tags in Git vs CVS. Committers need to be aware they can't checkout the contents of a particular build into their workspace all at once.
+
* no topics
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''May 31, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''IP Log'''
 +
** The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
 +
** In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
 +
* Dani: '''Release Review'''
 +
** Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
 +
* Dani: '''Update Jetty to 3.9.3'''
 +
** Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
 +
* Dani: '''RC4 Status Update'''
 +
** Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command
  
'''August 24, 2011:''' - Dani, John
+
<hr/>
* EGit is far behind on level of polish, usability, robustness, conforming to UI guidelines, etc. We may need to make contributions to avoid it hurting productivity
+
'''May 24, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin
* Proposed workflow changes in bugzilla 4.0: {{bug|337245}}. Proposing removing NEW, ASSIGNED and CLOSED states which would lose valuable information for us.
+
* Dani: '''IP Log Generator''' - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
 +
* Dani: '''Release Review''' - Deadline next week (June 2)
 +
* Dani: '''Deprecation Request from Brian'''
 +
** Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
 +
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date'''
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
 +
** Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
 +
** Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
 +
** This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
 +
* Dani: '''Neon Status'''
 +
** Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''May 17, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''{{Bug|475184}} Neon Plan Update 2'''
 +
** Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
 +
** SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
 +
*** Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
 +
**** Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
 +
*** Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
 +
** Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
 +
** '''AI Dani''' to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
 +
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date''' - EMO: To be decided per project
 +
** IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
 +
** Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
 +
*** gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
 +
** Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
 +
* Dani: '''Policy for Neon.Update Releases''' - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
 +
** Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
 +
** Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
 +
** Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - '''decision''': discuss feature by feature at PMC
 +
** Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
 +
** In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
 +
* Dani: '''Neon RC2 Builds Update'''
 +
** Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
 +
** Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
 +
** GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
 +
** Lars: {{bug|493477}} detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC
  
'''August 10, 2011:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
<hr/>
* Dani / Martin - '''Debug Flexible Hierarchy "provisional.api" namespace'''
+
'''May 10, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
** Cannot be moved into an "API" namespace without breaking external non-SDK clients since types are leaked from internal packages
+
* Dani: '''Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases'''
** Q1: Move framework to a place outside Debug?
+
** Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
** Q2: Declare "internal" packages as API? - API Tools won't be usable
+
* Martin: '''RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2'''
** McQ: Is it really impossible to add new API in parallel while keeping the old one in place for now?
+
** GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
*** Issues: (1) Performance, (2) bugs due to delegating, (3) is it worth doing that work? CDT already marked x-friends - Debug could offer the same for other clients.
+
*** Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
** McQ: Do we anticipate a huge Community out there just waiting for stuff to become full API? Then it's probably worth it...
+
** Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
*** But at this point any potential consumers already consume, so it's likely not worth the pain of renaming
+
*** Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
*** Dani's suggestion: Go into a separate bundle and re-export, such that clients don't need debug
+
*** There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
** John: Unless packages were intended to be API from the beginning, it's likely not API quality (that's likely also why Boris didn't want it in Jface)
+
*** Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).  
** Martin: Would really want to see namespace refactored... quality standards..
+
** Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
** John: Had the experience in p2, it was much more than just package renaming
+
*** Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
*** Very painful for user community, but in the end produced a much better results (but p2 was very young at that time)
+
*** Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)
** McQ: Can we provide backward compatible versions in parallel to the new namespace? We CANNOT break consumers.
+
*** Renaming only makes sense if mirroring/proxying is possible.
+
*** Lots of consumers in the old form, how many new consumers would we gain in the new form?
+
** Martin: Create a fork / clone on the UI side for new consumers, as real API?
+
*** McQ: Only makes sense if there's a community just waiting to pick this up.
+
*** Dani: Debug itself could not move to the new framework without breaking clients ... so we'd not have any clients inside the SDK
+
** McQ: It's non-trivial work, and before starting it we'd need to verify there's consumers for it
+
** Learnings from the past: Not keep stuff in provisional for so long any more
+
** Resolution: '''Pawel to find consumers for a refactored new bundle, then decide if / how to do the work'''
+
* Dani: '''Java 7 - Segfault due to loop optimizations''' ([http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/08/java7-hotspot details])
+
** Occurs a lot inside Apache Lucene, how to communicate that?
+
** McQ: send to eclipse-dev and cross-project
+
** Oracle aware of the issue - working on an early refresh, workaround exists (disable loop optimizations via -XX:-UseLoopPredicate)
+
** Another JIT bug was fixed by Oracle before GA because we reported it
+
** AI Dani '''Talk to Oracle when an update can be expected, soon send a message to eclipse-dev / cross-project'''
+
* Vacation notices:
+
** Martin: away from August 14 to September 1
+
** McQ: away from August 22 to September 5
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 3, 2011:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
+
'''May 3, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
* Dani - successfully moved Java 7 support to 3.7.1, 3.8, 4.1.1 and 4.2 streams
+
* [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02598.html Brian's request on the PMC list]
 +
** McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
 +
** Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
 +
** Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...
 +
** McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
 +
** Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
 +
** '''ACTION''' McQ to -1 and argue why.
  
 +
* Alex: '''Update on Accessibility'''
 +
** broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
 +
** due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
 +
** Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
 +
*** and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
 +
** Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 27, 2011:''' - Dani, John, McQ
+
'''April 26, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ
* Discussed how many versions back PDE should support development on. Historically we used N-2 but currently it is N-7. The layers of compatibility are starting to become hard to manage. We agreed dropping support for versions prior to 3.6 is ok if there is a benefit in doing so (cleans up PDE, makes the situation less confusing for end user, etc). However PDE must handle existing plugins with old version numbers in the plugin.xml (possibly with a warning and a quick fix to update/remove the number).
+
* Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
* We have some rough days ahead: first release train milestone on 4.x, ongoing build pain from Git migration, merge of Java 7 into mainline, and lots of people on holidays. Hold onto your hats!
+
* Alex: '''Accessibility''' - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
 +
** Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
 +
** McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
 +
* Alex: '''Platform.ui generification of project'''
 +
** Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
 +
** McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
 +
** Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
 +
** Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
 +
** '''ACTION Alex''' to prepare a message for review and then send that.
 +
* Lars: '''Copyright discussion'''
 +
** Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
 +
** The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
 +
* Dani: '''Update on FEEP'''
 +
** Paul not reached out yet
 +
** A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
 +
* Dani: '''Update on M7'''
 +
** Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
 +
** Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full
  
 +
<br/>
 +
'''April 19, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)
 +
* Dani: '''IP Stuff''' on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
 +
* Dani: '''FEEP''' discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
 +
** General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
 +
** Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
 +
** Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
 +
* Dani: '''All PMC please review and +1 API requests''' when you find time
 +
** McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
 +
* '''Reviews vs. Features'''
 +
** Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora
  
<hr/>
+
<br/>
'''July 20, 2011:''' - Dani, Martin, John, Jeff
+
'''April 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex
* Dani - '''p2 Installer {{bug|317785}}''' affects Java 7 users - when they want to update it looks like they are dead
+
* Lars: '''Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement'''
** Regression test only fails once every 100 times .. might be more often in the wild
+
** [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=485257#c13 bug 485257_c13] EMO: All information is in the git repos
** Might need some note on the download page (clickthrough) - people dont read the readme
+
** McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
* John - '''git migration''' - parts from git / parts from CVS isn't that bad for now
+
** Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
 +
** '''ACTION''' McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
  
 +
* Lars: '''{{bug|490012}} Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE'''
 +
** Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
 +
** Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
 +
** Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
 +
** '''DECISION''' to get rid of the strict error per project.
  
<hr/>
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|475934}} API Change on model processing order'''
'''July 13, 2011:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
+
** Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
* Want more Community involvement in the Eclipse PMC - "outside representation" in addition to companies with a commercial interest
+
** McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
* nice Java 7 webcast last week - Mike Milinkovich mentions our Eclipse Java 7 Support (BETA)
+
** McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
 +
*** Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
 +
*** Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
 +
*** Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
 +
** Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
 +
** '''DECISION''' to allow making the change and announce widely.
  
<hr/>
+
* Dani: '''FEEP and EMO Hiring Update'''
'''July 6, 2011:''' - John, Dani, Martin
+
** EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
* Dani - on track with Java 7 work; Oracle interested in having good Eclipse support
+
** Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
* git migration - Platform UI likely going to move this week
+
** Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
** Paul has a tool for gathering build notes from git (currently a commandline script)
+
  
<hr id="20110615"/>
+
* Dani: '''IDE-dev proposal'''
'''June 15, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Jeff
+
** People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
* John - '''git migration''': should egit be part of the SDK ?
+
** Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
** Build-time circular dependencies. Keep SDK small, but make it a very simple and obvious step to obtain egit.
+
*** McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
** It's already easy to update - milestone to mileston SDK update is a single step for SDK + egit.
+
*** OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.
* John - '''git migration''' and the mapfiles
+
** In orion, just tag HEAD of the build branch
+
** Dani: need to make sure that build notes can still be created
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 1, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani
+
'''April 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
* Some discussion of proposed Eclipse Foundation security policy
+
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
* We still want to see the disclosure time-frame being 3 months after the release containing the fix. Not all of our consumer community has the build technology or expertise to apply source patches to their products. Making sure the fix is in a maintenance release is the only practical way for some people to consume fixes
+
** Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
* It would be nice for critical security fixes to appear in the simultaneous release repository even after the SR2 time period. p2 would need some small amount of work to be able to flag critical/security patches and automatically notify the user about them being available. Nobody has signed up to do this work.
+
** Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
* Some discussion of Git migration. There is no need to move everything at once since our build can handle homogeneous inputs from both CVS and Git. One possibility is migrating Equinox as a first step. The most complicated piece is migrating the repository containing the builder itself. We will need to decide on where map files and documentation go: likely some kind of "common" repository for Eclipse TLP.
+
** Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
 +
* Dani: '''Solaris 32-bit'''
 +
** Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
 +
** Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
 +
*** Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
 +
** McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
 +
* Dani: '''New Solstice Welcome'''
 +
** Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
 +
** Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
 +
** McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
 +
* Alex: '''FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)'''
 +
** "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
 +
*** Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
 +
*** It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
 +
*** McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
 +
** Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
 +
*** '''AI Dani''' send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
 +
** Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
 +
** Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
 +
*** McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
 +
*** Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
 +
*** McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal '''Transparency''' on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
 +
*** McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
 +
**** Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: '''THIS''' is what the FEEP should have adressed !
 +
** Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
 +
** Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
 +
*** McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
 +
** Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
 +
* Lars '''Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy'''
 +
** Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 25, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
'''March 29, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex
* Missing CQ's for old legacy stuff in old update sites / repos
+
* Lars: '''PDE Build in Maintenance''' - Officially state this ?
** No problem for ZIP's (we can move to archive)
+
** PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
** OK with removing some legacy old stuff... How many years back to keep old stuff?
+
** Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
* Java 7 and 3.7.1
+
** McQ: '''DECISION''' Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
** Mike M OK with including in 3.7.1 (when it's stable enough)
+
* Lars: '''Integrate more projects into Platform UI?'''
 +
** Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
 +
** Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
 +
** Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
 +
** '''DECISION''' to not merge projects at this time.
 +
* Lars: '''Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list'''
 +
** McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
 +
** Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
 +
** Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. '''AI Dani''' notify mailing list.
 +
* Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
 +
** Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 4, 2011:''' - Jeff, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''March 22, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
 
+
* Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
* RC1 test pass went well overall
+
* Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
* Investigating an SWT blocker preventing checkbox tables from working
+
* Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
* There is a problem with the Ant mail task with Ant 1.8. Ant mail requires an optional extra jar to be added. In Ant 1.7 this didn't cause build to fail, but in Ant 1.8 it does. Our conclusion was to document in the migration guide but take no other action.
+
* Discussion about Che
* Git migration:
+
** McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
** Kim and DJ are investigating migration of the build to Git. Making progress but don't have a full build working yet
+
** Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
** We should consider summer 2011 for migration. For those teams with forked code between 3.x/4.x, they are finding it difficult to keep fixes in sync and potentially git can help with that.
+
** McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 27, 2011:''' - Jeff, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''March 15, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
* Dani '''still 100 bugs tagged 3.7''' - need to remind in the archcall to properly tag target milestones
+
* Dani: '''Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)'''
* John '''EDL for Examples'''
+
* Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
** Value of examples is they're there to be used - there's no business value in holding on to IP via Copyright so EDL seems right
+
* McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
** Re-licensing existing examples is difficult (eg SWT examples); but new examples should go under EDL
+
* Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
** Including examples in distributed features must take care of fixing abouts
+
* Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
* John '''3.7 plan final update''': all plan items committed or deferred; update to RH6
+
** Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
 +
** Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
 +
** Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
 +
* VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
 +
** Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
 +
** Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)
  
<hr/>
+
'''March 8, 2016''' - No call
'''April 20, 2011:''' - Jeff, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
* Jeff,Martin '''Builds at Eclipse''' - Work ongoing. IBM Mac has been donated. Mac testing has problems with some weird vnc bug
+
** Martin - could kick a 3.6.2+ build and artifacts OK, but confused by lots of warning messages. Kim responded immediately, but can this be made "more official" ?
+
** Public Builds - get the engineering underpinnings in place, then polish afterwards
+
** Won't get a lot better in 3.7 but could make it a plan item for 3.8
+
** John agrees that improving the warning messages to be more informative is a good thing - Kim's very helpful
+
* Dani '''Polish Bug to be prioritized''': {{bug|342648}} In SWT on Linux, RTL mode, Tree.getItem(Point) gives invalid result.
+
** Regression ?
+
** McQ: Every GTK version needs work - maybe it's specific to a new GTK; might be more than a P2
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 13, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani, Jeff
+
'''March 1, 2016''' - Dani, Martin
* John: reminder to review proposed project charter update
+
* Dani OOO next week
* Freeze plan for Indigo is ready
+
* Alex: '''{{bug|179924}} SSH-agent authentication''' 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
* Reviewed new polish items
+
** Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
* Investigating some 4.1 compatibility problems, possibly related to EMF changes
+
** Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
<hr/>
+
* EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.
  
'''March 30, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani
 
* Discussed and clarified the API approval guidelines. Will be announced in the arch call.
 
* Dani - Java 7 deferred from 3.7. GA planned together with 3.7.1.
 
** John: is feature work which might need review
 
* John - we need to prepare the Git migration
 
** John to ask DJ to do investigations
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''February 23, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''Mars.2 is on track'''
 +
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
 +
** EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
 +
* Dani: '''Update on Welcome'''
 +
** Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
 +
* McQ: '''Scrollbars on Windows''' and their appearance
 +
** Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
 +
** Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
 +
** McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
 +
** Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
 +
** Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
 +
** Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).
  
'''March 23, 2011:''' - McQ, Dani
 
* Prioritized the [[Polish3.7]] list. This is a recurring task for the next few weeks.
 
* Discussed and agreed on API change approval process, see [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg01368.html PMC mailing list note].
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
'''March 9, 2011:''' - John, McQ
+
'''February 16, 2016''' - Alex, Dani, Martin
 
+
* no topics
* Ongoing discussion of direction for 2012 release train. Will continue discussion in email to ensure all PMC members are involved.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 2, 2011:'''
 
* McQ - Migrating to 4.x. Don't be disruptive when there is no need to. Want to avoid migration pain.
 
** New feature work will be in 4.x, but as long as there are committers working on 3.x it will stay alive
 
** Make sure that quality keeps up: Releng / Build, make long-term committers continue reviewing contributions
 
** Problem with 4.x is just the bugs (impeding productivity), it's not anything architectural
 
** '''Convene again next week and come up with a consistent message''', AI McQ get hold of Jeff for a statement
 
* John - '''3.6.2+ builds''' set up on Hudson now
 
** Kim's {{bug|338557}} Job's mostly ready, Martin is the first tester. Should inform the Community once things go smoothly
 
** Updating version numbers like going to a virtual never-existing "3.6.3" release in order to give a clear and consistent message
 
** Dani has an (internal) document - Martin: interested for TM and CDT projects - '''AI Dani''' send Doc to Martin for for meeting notes
 
** Always updating the micro by one only ... so if bundle was not updated in Helios SR1 or SR2, it should go .1 in 3.6.2+
 
  
'''February 23, 2011:'''
+
'''February 9, 2016''' - Alex, McQ, Dani
* Martin - '''3.6.2+ M-Builds post 3.6.2''' - needed for adopters to get 3.6.2+ bundles signed; on demand only? If scheduled, how often?
+
* Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
 +
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|466370}} Welcome Screen redesign
 +
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|472614}} Smart Project Importer
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 16, 2011:'''
+
 
 +
'''February 2, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
 +
* Dani: '''Foundation Hires''' - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
 +
* Dani: '''Neon M5''' went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
 +
* Dani: '''CQ Deadline''' on Feb.12 for Neon
 +
* Dani: {{bug|486647}} for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
 +
** With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
 +
** Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
 +
*** Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
 +
*** We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
 +
*** Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
 +
** Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 9, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
'''January 26, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars
* Dani - '''Builder bug''':  Theoretically, the builder bug can cause bad binaries shipped from Eclipse.org
+
* Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
** But switching the builder now could have other consequences. Most people likely use the 3.6.0 or 3.6.1 builder
+
* Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
** Platform uses the 3.6.1 builder. Bug appeared in 3.6.0
+
* Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track
** McQ thinks we should recommend using the new builder - John: can never know whether a problematic code construct is there or not
+
** Provide a patched version of the 3.6.1 basebuilder as an option for people to use - '''AI John''' ask Kim to re-produce a new basebuilder, then respin RC4
+
* McQ - '''Builds at Eclipse.org'''
+
** IBM Ottawa consolidating 7 offices into 2, plan to not have a build lab
+
** Kim still frustrated with Foundation facilities; McQ talked to people both inside IBM and the Foundation
+
 
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 2, 2011:''' - Canceled (no topics)
+
'''January 19, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
<hr/>
+
* Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
 
+
* Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
'''January 26, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Martin,
+
** Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
* Dani: {{bug|330534}} '''ObjectTeams Contribution''' - JDT might allow using their namespace as an exception, couple p2 bugs pending
+
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''PDE Build''' - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
** If the p2 solution cannot be done, OT/J will need to remain off the train
+
** Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement '''in the Platform'''
* Martin: Concerned about '''Eclipse 3.x quality''', many regressions and not being addressed
+
** Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
** {{bug|320329}} ThreadJob#waitForRun can spin when blockingJob is not RUNNING
+
** Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
*** '''Platform Runtime: Regression''' introduced in 3.6, can have severe Performance impact, reported 10-Jul, commenters unsure about approach to fix
+
** Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
*** A buggy contribution was accepted, and then the contributor left
+
* Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
*** John spent a lot of time.. there was a fix that didn't work
+
** Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
*** Dani: Could the contribution be pulled out? - No because it's new API (yield())
+
* SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
*** Contributor was quite good originally but then just switched teams and was no longer available
+
* Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
*** The new testcase from Markus Schorn might help narrowing down the case quickly
+
** Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
** {{bug|335153}} Regression: p2 downloads are much slower due to picking remote artifacts even when a local file: URL is available
+
* Martin: '''Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?'''
*** '''p2: Regression''' introduced in 3.6, reported 24-Jan, testcase + patch attached, response pending
+
** Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
** {{bug|332840}} Wrong error about API change (Regression; works with 3.7M3)
+
** Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
*** '''API Tooling: Regression''' introduced in 3.7M4, reported 17-Dec, Olivier:  "I'll take a look" but no response since
+
*** Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
** {{bug|332838}} Bogus potential null pointer access warning (regression; works with 3.6)
+
** Debian or SuSE should be OK;
*** '''JDT: Regression''' introduced in 3.7M4, reported 17-Dec, Ayushman: "I'll investigate" but no response since
+
** Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2
** {{bug|332507}} [regression] incomplete build path reported on o.e.rse.subsystem.shells.local
+
*** '''PDE UI: Regression''' introduced in 3.7M4, reported 14-Dec, initial traffic but no followup since 16-Dec
+
** {{bug|335466}} Regression: category.xml processing fails when "name" contains special chars
+
*** Just detected recently
+
** {{bug|313899}} [Progress] Every user-job causes a busy cursor to be shown for a minimum of 250ms
+
*** '''Platform UI''': Patch provided on 21-May, no response whatsoever from Platform UI
+
** John: There had been a fair bit of turnover, new committers getting up to speed ... having less experienced people is a fact
+
*** Identifying key bugs in the big bug database takes a lot of experience
+
** Dani: M5 is the Major feature freeze, so new feature / API work has highest priority ... so quality drop is somewhat expected in M5
+
** Even for regressions... if the regression is less critical than new bugs, it goes behind
+
** '''RESOLUTION:''' Make the important bugs visible to the component leads or PMC. It's natural that we sometimes need to ping on a bug. M5 is a problematic time.
+
* John: {{bug|335374}} '''Redhat 6 as a Reference Platform'''
+
** SWT team doing some final testing, then will put only RH6 on the Ref Platform list
+
* John: '''OpenJDK as a Reference Platform''' - Oracle is interested and might contribute testing
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
''' January 19, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Jeff, Dani, Martin
+
'''January 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
* Jeff will be unavailable for meeting next 6-7 weeks
+
* Dani: '''Upstaffing the PMC'''
* John: How do we interpret "under the direction of the PMC" in [http://www.eclipse.org/legal/EclipseLegalProcessPoster.pdf Eclipse legal process]?
+
** Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
** McQ: Not about approval, but about PMC being aware
+
* Dani: '''Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng''' - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
** Jeff: Goal is to indicate "Working with an Eclipse mindset", ie in close collaboration with a committer ... contributor must be aware of IP due diligence guidelines from the beginning of evolution of the code. We want to avoid introducing IP leaks by accepting legacy code that was written before assuming an Eclipse mindset.
+
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''Remove PDE Build from our drops?'''
** McQ: This is about understanding the direction of Eclipse as a whole. Request a PMC +1 on the bug as work is being started. PMC should work with committer to ensure that contributor has been instructed about IP rules.
+
** Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
 +
** McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
 +
** Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
 +
* Dani: {{bug|485257}} '''Copyright Policy Change''' - waiting on EMO/Legal input
 +
* Alex: '''Updating SWT to Java7'''
 +
* McQ: '''Travel for EclipseCon'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
''' January 12, 2011:''' -  
+
'''January 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani
 +
* Dani: '''PMC Membership'''
  
<hr/>
 
''' January 5, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Jeff, Martin
 
* Dani: Component Lead progress? - Portal still doesn't have the correct list of components
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Revision as of 11:33, 18 October 2016

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

Oct 18, 2016 - McQ, Sergey, Martin, Dani, Alex

  • Dani: PMC Approval for Sergey co-lead on Resources (Done)
  • Alex: Lucene Update
    • Looking at updating to 6.x in Oxygen - CQs ongoing for Orbit - hoping to make M4
    • Others like Mylyn, Pydev, ... use Lucene 5.x at this time; others consume the Platform
    • There is some potential breaking things but should be fine since multiple Lucene's in parallel can work.
    • If an old pre-built help index can not be read, a new one is generated (Performance hit on the first run)
    • Dani: No issue, will also update Jetty in M4
  • Dani: Would like to open eclipse.jdt repository and corresponding sub-project to all JDT committers (currently only used for the JDT feature)
    • The project is almost dead with only 2 active committers, since new JDT leads were not voted in
    • Changes to feature will be rare, and Dani agrees to review
    • Allows to put the Oomph setup file into a shared place where all JDT committers have access
    • PROPOSAL AGREED by all.
  • EclipseCon Europe next week - Dani, Lars and Alex will be there - will cancel next week's meeting

Oct 11, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex, Sergey

  • Dani: Neon Update 2 Endgame Plan sent - thanks for the feedback
  • Sergey: We should talk about our release process.
    • McQ asked Sergey to start the discussion via e-mail
  • McQ: What do you think about Devoxx and Eclipse Converge

Oct 4, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex, Sergey

  • Dani: Neon Update 2 Endgame Plan - working on it
  • Dani: Release Review
    • In the past, features were not announced - now for 4.6.2, features + release review must be in by RC1
    • Will do the minimum necessary / required by EMO, for Update Releases.
  • Lars: p2 merge into Equinox status -
  • Sergey: Logistics of dealing with Service Releases
    • Managing version increments is very fragile and error-prone
      • Discussion already happened, see bug 499164 -- we'll not increment minor versions on backports even if API is added
      • AI Dani send a note out to eclipse-dev again
    • New & Noteworthy / Features for Update Releases:
      • If there's new features, there must be a New&Noteworthy for users (everyone agrees)
      • What about doing two feature releases per year with one service release each ?
        • Dani: Not having features in "some" releases would defeat what the Community wanted
        • Alex thinks that allowing features every 6 months would calm down most demand for new features
        • PMC Review of feature backports worked fine so far
        • RESOLUTION Will not change the process before having it settle a bit
          • McQ would love to see a single development stream all the time ...
      • Would the Generic Editor be acceptable in a release before June 2017 ?
        • Tentatively yes, it's a separate bundle not affecting other code, it matters to the Community, so why not...
        • Martin: OK, but what about newly introduced API ... would it be declared "provisional" initially ?
        • Dani: There's no such thing as "provisional API". Teams who decide on backporting must also decide on API.
        • Sergey: CDT has done full feature release every quarter for some time now and hasn't screwed up API...
        • Martin,Lars,Sergey: What about marking "fresh" API as "@noreference under construction" until it's hardened...
          • McQ: Then declare APIs as official only once a year ?
          • Wouldn't want to tie to a yearly cycle again ... but then we're back to the Version Numbering discussion...
          • AI All continue discussion on mailing list or next week.



Sep 27, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex + Sergey Prigogin (guest)

  • Discussion about PMC upstaffing

Sep 20, 2016 - Martin, McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Resources Leadership - AI Dani reach out to Szymon
  • PMC upstaffing: Focus on large installs; UI Freeze monitor, code cleanup, solid solutions, focus on code reviews
  • Dani: Java 9 Moved to July 2017 - AI Dani talk to the Planning Council, proposing an "Update 1" in July
    • Better for consumers, available via "just update", though little bit extra work (CQ + Release Review)
    • Schedule looks still aggressive when looking at specifications; need to keep the team motivated
  • Dani: SelectionListener SWT Change - reverted for M2 since more clients were affected than expected
    • Proposed change turned out to be source-incompatible - will look at a different approach

Sep 13, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Lars

  • Upstaffing the PMC
  • Build failures due to an SWT Change

Sep 6, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Thanks for approving Noopur
  • Dani: Java Language Server Proposal - at the Foundation, will be called "JDT Language Server"
  • Dani: RC4 - Fix for an Equinox p2 issue, only known issue being fixed, looking good
  • Dani: Looking at the generic code editor, would prefer moving some things to M3 (talking to Sopot and Mickael)
  • LTS: Market for paid fixes on old versions not quite as good as expected
  • Release Reviews: When is a feature considered an "important feature" ?
    • Important Features require a full release review thus lots of effort, avoided for Neon.1
    • AI Dani discuss in Planning Council call tomorrow

Aug 30, 2016 - No topics

Aug 23, 2016 - No topics


Aug 16, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Lars

  • Dani will not always be available next two weeks (Eclipse Summit India and IBM Bangalore team visit)
    • Please split the load on +1'ing backport/API requests - please do review the code and set the pmc+1 flag
  • Dani: bug 498106 Oxygen Plan
    • Agreed by all so far, including removal of REL6 as a reference platform
    • Individual subproject Wikis look pretty consistent now
    • UNIX Platforms (Solaris,AIX,HP-UX) have been removed for M1
      • PPC-Linux Releng was also removed but accidentally (due to a hardware failure), will be restored for M2.
    • No consensus on Ubuntu yet - will keep 14.04 in for now, consider taking out on the next update
  • Dani: bug 499164 Version Numbering for Neon.1
    • The original "+5" or "+10" proposal showed some issues:
    • Update with skipping would propagate to features; no tooling; no real benefit of semantic versioning
    • AGREEMENT to keeping using the status quo for now ("allow small updates even with micro uprev only")
  • Lars: p2 pending patches
    • AI Dani send E-Mail to Tom - suggest reviews or merger p2 back to Platform
  • Dani: bug 499399 Eclipse Infrastructure Stability
    • Denis is looking at it - maybe too many requests coming in ?
  • Lars: e4 spy and wizard migration to PDE
    • Dani: Are wizards e4 specific, or could they be used with JFace ?
    • New SWT Layout Spy should go to SWT, rather then keeping in PDE's Build
    • Some spies usable also in RCP Apps - for example the e4 model spy - 6 independent projects, dependency on emf.edit
      • Looks like a big extension to PDE -- consider some consolidation and cleanup (tests, String externalization, ...)
      • AI Lars to check if contributors would be willing to clean up as discussed, then moving into pde.ui would be fine.

Aug 09, 2016 - Dani

  • no one joined - had private conversation with McQ later
    • guys, please announce when you can't join. I can make better use of my time than waiting for you in the call ;-) - thanks.

Aug 02, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: New Oxygen Plan Format
    • AI Dani ask Denis about aggregating the Sub Wiki's into the master page
  • Alex: SWT Fragments for ARM64 etc
    • Tycho doesn't support auto-selecting fragments - in contact with Jan and Tobias
    • Dani: Would like to revert changes - don't want to punish people who are not interested in fragments
    • Not really an SWT problem, so editing .target files would be a clean solution
    • Will probably go with empty (dummy) fragments without natives, as that's the simplest solution
  • Dani: SWT team - Lakshmi going to Sweden, will not be available until end 2016
    • Arun is mostly back, Sravan is now on Releng
    • Need to push further on building at the Foundation!!
    • Alex: Getting CentOS for building ... but test machines are on SLES11, which is too old, will need at least SLES12
      • Dani: Will need an owner at the Eclipse Foundation to ensure this proceeds ! Alex agreed to further drive this.
  • Target Env: Dropping REL6 -- reference platform for testing will only be REL7 (though will continue to run on REL6)
    • Reducing support level this year, in order to prepare for only supporting GTK3 next year

July 26, 2016 - no meeting

July 19, 2016 - no meeting


July 12, 2016 - McQ, Lars, Alex

  • Dani: Hackathon summary

July 5, 2016 - Lars, McQ, Alex, Dani, Martin

  • Lars: SWT move to Java 8
  • Alex: Initial builds of GTK 2.24 for AIX - planning to bump minimum GTK version to 2.24
    • Will remove non-cairo drawing, this is where most of the breakage happens
    • Ubuntu 12.04: 2.24.10 / 3.4.5
    • RHEL 6: 2.24.23-6
    • AIX, HP-UX, Solaris ? -- Oxygen will only focus on Linux, Windows, Mac
    • Secondary Platforms: Not built on EF Hardware, but interested parties can contribute binaries
    • Trying to support Platforms which can't move up to modern GTK at a similar pace as Linux is hard
    • AI Alex write up a message to the Community
  • Lars: bug 486961 extending the Eclipse Text Editor
  • Dani: Build, and Hackathon

June 28, 2016 - McQ, Martin, Alex

  • Discussion about Language Server Protocol
    • MS sponsoring hackathon in Zurich, Dani expected to go there
    • The protocol has an Open Source license, but there is no Open Source Governance ... who owns the specification?

June 21, 2016 -


June 14, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars

  • McQ: Mattermost / Slack for communication
    • not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
  • Lars: Master is Open
    • Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
    • Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
    • Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes (bug 360703) is open to improve that)
    • We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
  • Lars: Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ? - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
  • McQ: Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che (from ide-dev mailing list and bug 496114)
    • The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
    • The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
      • People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
    • The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
    • How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
      • At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
      • But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
  • Dani: What goes into the Neon Update Releases
    • as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
    • AI: Dani will prepare a note
  • Dani: Using Sound in Eclipse
    • Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see bug 496003)
    • Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
    • Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
    • McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so that should really be leveraged
    • Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
    • Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
    • Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.

June 7, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Alex

  • no topics

May 31, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: IP Log
    • The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
    • In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
  • Dani: Release Review
    • Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
  • Dani: Update Jetty to 3.9.3
    • Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
  • Dani: RC4 Status Update
    • Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command

May 24, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Martin

  • Dani: IP Log Generator - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
  • Dani: Release Review - Deadline next week (June 2)
  • Dani: Deprecation Request from Brian
    • Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
  • Dani: Copyright End Date
    • AGREEMENT to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
    • Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
    • Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
    • This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
  • Dani: Neon Status
    • Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time

May 17, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: bug 475184 Neon Plan Update 2
    • Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
    • SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
      • Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
        • Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
      • Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
    • Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
    • AI Dani to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
  • Dani: Copyright End Date - EMO: To be decided per project
    • IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
    • Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
      • gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
    • Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
  • Dani: Policy for Neon.Update Releases - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
    • Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
    • Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
    • Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - decision: discuss feature by feature at PMC
    • Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
    • In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
  • Dani: Neon RC2 Builds Update
    • Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
    • Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
    • GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
    • Lars: bug 493477 detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC

May 10, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Dani: Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases
    • Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
  • Martin: RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2
    • GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
      • Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
    • Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
      • Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
      • There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
      • Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
    • Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
      • Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
      • Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)

May 3, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Brian's request on the PMC list
    • McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
    • Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
    • Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...
    • McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
    • Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
    • ACTION McQ to -1 and argue why.
  • Alex: Update on Accessibility
    • broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
    • due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
    • Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
      • and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
    • Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !

April 26, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
  • Alex: Accessibility - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
    • Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
    • McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
  • Alex: Platform.ui generification of project
    • Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
    • McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
    • Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
    • Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
    • ACTION Alex to prepare a message for review and then send that.
  • Lars: Copyright discussion
    • Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
    • The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
  • Dani: Update on FEEP
    • Paul not reached out yet
    • A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
  • Dani: Update on M7
    • Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
    • Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full


April 19, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)

  • Dani: IP Stuff on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
  • Dani: FEEP discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
    • General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
    • Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
    • Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
  • Dani: All PMC please review and +1 API requests when you find time
    • McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
    • AGREEMENT on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
  • Reviews vs. Features
    • Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora


April 12, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex

  • Lars: Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement
    • bug 485257_c13 EMO: All information is in the git repos
    • McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
    • Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
    • ACTION McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
  • Lars: bug 490012 Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE
    • Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
    • Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
    • Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
    • DECISION to get rid of the strict error per project.
  • Dani: bug 475934 API Change on model processing order
    • Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
    • McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
    • McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
      • Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
      • Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
      • Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
    • Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
    • DECISION to allow making the change and announce widely.
  • Dani: FEEP and EMO Hiring Update
    • EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
    • Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
    • Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
  • Dani: IDE-dev proposal
    • People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
    • Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
      • McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
      • OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.

April 5, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: FEEP Update
    • Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
    • Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
    • Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
  • Dani: Solaris 32-bit
    • Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
    • Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
      • Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
    • McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
  • Dani: New Solstice Welcome
    • Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
    • Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
    • McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
  • Alex: FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)
    • "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
      • Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
      • It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
      • McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
    • Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
      • AI Dani send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
      • AI Martin compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
    • Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
    • Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
      • McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
      • Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
      • McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal Transparency on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
      • McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
        • Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: THIS is what the FEEP should have adressed !
    • Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
    • Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
      • McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
    • Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
  • Lars Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy
    • Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).

March 29, 2016 - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex

  • Lars: PDE Build in Maintenance - Officially state this ?
    • PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
    • Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
    • McQ: DECISION Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
  • Lars: Integrate more projects into Platform UI?
    • Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
    • Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
    • Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
    • DECISION to not merge projects at this time.
  • Lars: Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list
    • McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
    • Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
    • Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. AI Dani notify mailing list.
  • Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
    • Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"

March 22, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
  • Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
  • Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
  • Discussion about Che
    • McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
    • Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
    • McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?

March 15, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)
  • Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
  • McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
  • Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
  • Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
    • Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
    • Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
    • Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
  • VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
    • Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
    • Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)

March 8, 2016 - No call


March 1, 2016 - Dani, Martin

  • Dani OOO next week
  • Alex: bug 179924 SSH-agent authentication 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
    • Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
    • Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
  • EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.

February 23, 2016 - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex

  • Dani: Mars.2 is on track
  • Dani: FEEP Update
    • EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
  • Dani: Update on Welcome
    • Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
  • McQ: Scrollbars on Windows and their appearance
    • Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
    • Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
    • McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
    • Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
    • Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
    • Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).

February 16, 2016 - Alex, Dani, Martin

  • no topics

February 9, 2016 - Alex, McQ, Dani

  • Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
  • Dani: please take a look at bug 466370 Welcome Screen redesign
  • Dani: please take a look at bug 472614 Smart Project Importer

February 2, 2016 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Dani: Foundation Hires - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
  • Dani: Neon M5 went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
  • Dani: CQ Deadline on Feb.12 for Neon
  • Dani: bug 486647 for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
    • With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
    • Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
      • Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
      • We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
      • Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
    • Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default

January 26, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
  • Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
  • Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track

January 19, 2016 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
  • Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
    • Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
  • Dani: bug 485429 PDE Build - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
    • Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement in the Platform
    • Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
    • Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
    • Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
  • Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
    • Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
  • SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
  • Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
    • Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
  • Martin: Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?
    • Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
    • Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
      • Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
    • Debian or SuSE should be OK;
    • Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2

January 12, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Upstaffing the PMC
    • Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
  • Dani: Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
  • Dani: bug 485429 Remove PDE Build from our drops?
    • Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
    • McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
    • Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
  • Dani: bug 485257 Copyright Policy Change - waiting on EMO/Legal input
  • Alex: Updating SWT to Java7
  • McQ: Travel for EclipseCon

January 5, 2016 - McQ, Dani

  • Dani: PMC Membership

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