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= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
−
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
  
−
'''Oct 6, 2010:''' - Dani, John, Jeff
+
'''Sep 20, 20160''' - Martin, McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex
−
*  
+
* Resources Leadership - '''AI Dani''' reach out to Szymon
 +
* PMC upstaffing: Focus on large installs; UI Freeze monitor, code cleanup, solid solutions, focus on code reviews
 +
* Dani: '''Java 9 Moved to July 2017''' - AI Dani talk to the Planning Council, proposing an "Update 1" in July
 +
** Better for consumers, available via "just update", though little bit extra work (CQ + Release Review)
 +
** Schedule looks still aggressive when looking at specifications; need to keep the team motivated
 +
* Dani: '''SelectionListener SWT Change''' - reverted for M2 since more clients were affected than expected
 +
** Proposed change turned out to be source-incompatible - will look at a different approach
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''Sep 13, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Lars
 +
* Upstaffing the PMC
 +
* Build failures due to an SWT Change
  
−
'''Sep 29, 2010:''' - Dani, John, Martin, Jeff
+
<hr/>
−
* John: UNIX groups - ongoing, now with Webmaster
+
'''Sep 6, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin
−
* John: Parts of e4 project now moving to git - may pave the way for more git on Eclipse later on
+
* Dani: Thanks for approving Noopur
−
** PDE Build Fetch factory for git currently exists as a patch on a bug, should live in egit - {{bug|289838}}
+
* Dani: Java Language Server Proposal - at the Foundation, will be called "JDT Language Server"
−
* Jeff: Download page - Cluttered and hard to navigate - {{bug|326444}} for Equinox: too many columns, too much text
+
* Dani: RC4 - Fix for an Equinox p2 issue, only known issue being fixed, looking good
−
** Make it easier to find "the latest"; update the look to be more consistent with main web pages
+
* Dani: Looking at the generic code editor, would prefer moving some things to M3 (talking to Sopot and Mickael)
−
** Most people just get the SDK, or the SWT downloads
+
* LTS: Market for paid fixes on old versions not quite as good as expected
−
** '''AI''' File bug for discussion
+
* Release Reviews: When is a feature considered an "important feature" ?
 +
** Important Features require a full release review thus lots of effort, avoided for Neon.1
 +
** '''AI Dani''' discuss in Planning Council call tomorrow
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Sep 22, 2010:''' - Dani, Jeff, Martin, John
+
<strike>Aug 30, 2016 - No topics</strike>
−
* John: 3.7 -> 4.1 EPP upgrade - idea is to just upgrade the Platform (not a long-term, but interim idea)
+
−
** Goal is increasing the usage of 4.1, without further producing full EPP's
+
−
* Dani: How to move forward with UNIX group restructuring
+
−
** Wait for the build.e.o problems to get resolved, then John to follow up with Denis (via the discussion bug), once there is a concrete suggestion of what is desired in terms of ACL's
+
−
* John: M2a rebuild - anything we can do to reduce the chance of getting such bugs in the future?
+
−
** No-Reference analysis warnings were turned off in the past since there were too many false positives
+
−
** Dani - Bytecode are independent of warnings, there's really 2 issues:
+
−
*** (a) compiler only changed every 6 weeks, earlier compiler adoption would have found this earlier
+
−
*** (b) bytecode comparison after builds ?
+
−
*** John: using the new p2 every week turned out to be too volatile (but compiler may be more stable)
+
−
**** Goal of updating basebuilder more often would be adding "compile Eclipse" as a big testcase for the compiler
+
−
** '''AI John''' to discuss with Kim
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
<strike>Aug 23, 2016 - No topics</strike>
−
'''Sep 15, 2010:''' - Dani, Jeff, McQ, John
+
−
* Moving up to ICU4J 4.6 which requires Java 5
+
−
** We are stuck on old version of ICU4J unless we can move to Java 5
+
−
** We previously agreed moving to Java 5 is ok - no complaints here
+
−
** Need to document the steps for someone running RCP on Foundation 1.1 - have to switch to older version of ICU4J
+
−
** This will enable us to consume future ICU4J versions that may be able to split large timezone data into a separately consumable piece.
+
−
* Unix groups
+
−
** Preference is to avoid multiple votes
+
−
** Try to use ACLs to enable multiple groups for some directories
+
−
** If this is too complex, then have two groups but not expose two votes. I.e., when a committer is approved, we need to tell webmasters to add "common" along with whatever component they are being added to.
+
−
* Release train and 3.7/4.1 split
+
−
** Planning council working out how to handle 3.7/4.1 split
+
−
** Some argued that having 4.1 EPP packages would greatly improve adoption
+
−
** Being able to "one click" upgrade from 3.7->4.1 EPP not too bad and greatly reduces dis/mirror footprint (for example a link in welcome page)
+
  
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''Aug 16, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars
 +
* Dani will not always be available next two weeks (Eclipse Summit India and IBM Bangalore team visit)
 +
** Please split the load on +1'ing backport/API requests - please do review the code and set the pmc+1 flag
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|498106}} Oxygen Plan'''
 +
** Agreed by all so far, including removal of REL6 as a reference platform
 +
** Individual subproject Wikis look pretty consistent now
 +
** UNIX Platforms (Solaris,AIX,HP-UX) have been removed for M1
 +
*** PPC-Linux Releng was also removed but accidentally (due to a hardware failure), will be restored for M2.
 +
** No consensus on Ubuntu yet - will keep 14.04 in for now, consider taking out on the next update
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|499164}} Version Numbering for Neon.1'''
 +
** The original "+5" or "+10" proposal showed some issues:
 +
** Update with skipping would propagate to features; no tooling; no real benefit of semantic versioning
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to keeping using the status quo for now ("allow small updates even with micro uprev only")
 +
* Lars: '''p2 pending patches'''
 +
** '''AI Dani''' send E-Mail to Tom - suggest reviews or merger p2 back to Platform
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|499399}} Eclipse Infrastructure Stability'''
 +
** Denis is looking at it - maybe too many requests coming in ?
 +
* Lars: '''e4 spy and wizard migration to PDE'''
 +
** Dani: Are wizards e4 specific, or could they be used with JFace ?
 +
** New SWT Layout Spy should go to SWT, rather then keeping in PDE's Build
 +
** Some spies usable also in RCP Apps - for example the e4 model spy - 6 independent projects, dependency on emf.edit
 +
*** Looks like a big extension to PDE -- consider some consolidation and cleanup (tests, String externalization, ...)
 +
*** '''AI Lars''' to check if contributors would be willing to clean up as discussed, then moving into pde.ui would be fine.
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
−
'''Sep 8, 2010:''' - John, Jeff, McQ
+
'''Aug 09, 2016''' - Dani
−
* Discussed reception of 4.0 release.
+
* no one joined - had private conversation with McQ later
−
** We probably overdid the caution and it appears to be getting very little use
+
** '''guys, please announce when you can't join. I can make better use of my time than waiting for you in the call ;-) - thanks.'''
−
** Will encourage Eclipse project developers to use 4.1 builds to help find and iron out bugs
+
−
* Discussed [[Eclipse/PMC/Unix Groups]] again
+
−
** Need to resolve with webmasters how to handle "common" things. Entered {{bug|324772}} to iron out details with web master
+
−
* John asked for input on draft Indigo plan
+
−
* Discussed how to better handle ECF contributions
+
−
** Either ECF needs to be done earlier, or we have to live with our dates slipping
+
−
** Need to work together to see if we can improve contribution process
+
−
** We need to at least make sure they are in the loop on our build and end-game schedules
+
−
* Jeff mentioned target platform management in PDE has a few holes. Will have a follow-up call to dive into details with PDE committers.
+
−
 
+
−
 
+
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
−
'''Sep 1, 2010:''' - John, Jeff, Dani
+
'''Aug 02, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* Discussed [[Eclipse/PMC/Unix Groups]]
+
* Dani: New [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_7_draft.xml Oxygen Plan Format]
−
** Agreed with general direction about greatly reducing number of groups
+
** '''AI Dani''' ask Denis about aggregating the Sub Wiki's into the master page
−
** Dani proposed some changes to text and search components, which have since been incorporated into the doc
+
* Alex: SWT Fragments for ARM64 etc
 +
** Tycho doesn't support auto-selecting fragments - in contact with Jan and Tobias
 +
** Dani: Would like to revert changes - don't want to punish people who are not interested in fragments
 +
** Not really an SWT problem, so editing .target files would be a clean solution
 +
** Will probably go with empty (dummy) fragments without natives, as that's the simplest solution
 +
* Dani: SWT team - Lakshmi going to Sweden, will not be available until end 2016
 +
** Arun is mostly back, Sravan is now on Releng
 +
** Need to push further on building at the Foundation!!
 +
** Alex: Getting CentOS for building ... but test machines are on SLES11, which is too old, will need at least SLES12
 +
*** Dani: Will need an owner at the Eclipse Foundation to ensure this proceeds ! Alex agreed to further drive this.
 +
* Target Env: Dropping REL6 -- reference platform for testing will only be REL7 (though will continue to run on REL6)
 +
** Reducing support level this year, in order to prepare for only supporting GTK3 next year
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
−
'''Aug 25, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin
+
'''July 26, 2016''' - no meeting
−
* Dani - 3.6.1 looks ok - no other topics
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''July 19, 2016''' - no meeting
−
'''Aug 18, 2010:''' - Dani, John, Martin
+
−
* John - '''Eclipse 3.x and 4.0''' and the Release Train
+
−
** Early feedback from 4.0 adopters is that most stuff actually works when dropping in binaries (talking binary compatibility, not source compatibility)
+
−
** Martin is concerned that dropping binaries built against 3.x into 4.0 will fail late at runtime only, due to use of internals
+
−
** John suggests API usage scan to understand issues early
+
−
** Martin is more interested in source compatibility (build against 4.0) - can this be made super simple?
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Aug 11, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani
+
'''July 12, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Alex
−
* McQ - '''3.7 Planning Process''' - input requested from all committers about plan items
+
* Dani: Hackathon summary
−
* '''Eclipse 4.0 Feedback''' - not too much seen, neither good nor bad
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Aug 4, 2010:''' - meeting cancelled
+
'''July 5, 2016''' - Lars, McQ, Alex, Dani, Martin
 +
* Lars: SWT move to Java 8
 +
* Alex: Initial builds of GTK 2.24 for AIX - planning to bump minimum GTK version to 2.24
 +
** Will remove non-cairo drawing, this is where most of the breakage happens
 +
** Ubuntu 12.04: 2.24.10 / 3.4.5
 +
** RHEL 6: 2.24.23-6
 +
** AIX, HP-UX, Solaris ? -- Oxygen will only focus on Linux, Windows, Mac
 +
** Secondary Platforms: Not built on EF Hardware, but interested parties can contribute binaries
 +
** Trying to support Platforms which can't move up to modern GTK at a similar pace as Linux is hard
 +
** '''AI Alex''' write up a message to the Community
 +
* Lars: {{bug|486961}} extending the Eclipse Text Editor
 +
** Dani: Text Editor must remain unchanged, but feel free to provide a new different code editor
 +
** https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=496114#c7
 +
** Not against adding extension points ... but having the standard text editor adopt those is a no-go
 +
* Dani: Build, and Hackathon
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 28, 2010:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani, Jeff
+
'''June 28, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Alex
−
* Discussed process for handling security patches
+
* Discussion about Language Server Protocol
−
** If patches had metadata that would allow them to be flagged as security or "critical" patches, then p2 could automatically apply them on startup
+
** MS sponsoring hackathon in Zurich, Dani expected to go there
−
** Deluxe solution would use out of process installer to be able to repair corrupt install that can't even start
+
** The protocol has an Open Source license, but there is no Open Source Governance ... who owns the specification?
−
** Simple solution is to put patches in the eclipse/updates/3.6 repository and users need to apply them manually
+
−
* McQ gave a summary of the state of the Eclipse SDK 4.0 release (see his later [http://dev.eclipse.org/blogs/mcqjustmcq/2010/07/28/growing-the-future/ blog post]).
+
−
* Discussed possibility of facet work moving to e4
+
−
** Need to be clear on what would be required to migrate it to the platform
+
−
** Have separate call with Konstantin to discuss
+
−
* Discussed state of builds moving to Foundation infrastructure
+
−
** Could explore migrating build to different build technology such as Buckminster or Tycho if it provides any benefit
+
−
** Concern about the build/test machines becoming a bottleneck as more projects move to it
+
−
** Still need to run performance tests on IBM hardware for now because virtualized machine is not consistent enough
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 21, 2010:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani
+
'''June 21, 2016''' -  
−
* McQ - '''State of Eclipse 4.0'''
+
*  
−
** Not where we'd like us to be, but converging fast and there seem no issues blocking shipping
+
−
** Not slowing down people any more, and get some new capabilities (view tear-off etc)
+
−
** Should we have 3.7 and 4.1 release trains? allow projects to choose? - Discussions ongoing with PC, Foundation (enough resources to support this?)
+
−
* John - '''Eclipse 4.0 Release Review'''
+
−
** Need to go public now to have 1-week review period
+
−
* Dani - need to start publishing the '''3.6.1 freeze plan'''
+
−
* Dani - '''separate groups for resources and runtime'''
+
−
** Too small micro-components make operation harder
+
−
** McQ 0, Martin 0, Dani +1, John +1 (but strive for more simplicity on other areas)
+
−
* Vacations - McQ 2 weeks off starting Aug 16
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 14, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani
+
'''June 14, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars
−
* Dani - '''Problem launching Oracle/Sun jre6u21 on Windows'''
+
* McQ: '''Mattermost / Slack''' for communication
−
** {{bug|319514}} Quickly runs out of Permgen space, because the vendor name has changed and so the -XXPermGen flag is not appended
+
** not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
−
** Put in a quick workaround for 3.6.1, patch ahead of time (some people wanted a 3.6a but we don't think that's worth the ripple)
+
* Lars: '''Master is Open'''
−
** Most commercial products ship a VM, so likely not as bad as thought
+
** Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
−
*** Very natural that failure can happen when we don't control the VMs and the VM has custom arguments
+
** Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
−
** Only a windows issue for now (Linux parses version and looks for "hotspot")
+
** Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes ({{bug|360703}}) is open to improve that)
−
** Martin: Placing a .hotspotrc file somewhere is another possible workaround
+
** We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
−
** Dani and Martin propose updating the FAQ, adding a Readme section, circulating the information about workarounds should be sufficient.
+
* Lars: '''Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ?''' - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
 +
* McQ: '''Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che''' (from [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ide-dev/ ide-dev] mailing list and {{bug|496114}})
 +
** The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
 +
** The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
 +
*** People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
 +
** The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
 +
** How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
 +
*** At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
 +
*** But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
 +
* Dani: '''What goes into the Neon Update Releases'''
 +
** as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
 +
** '''AI: Dani''' will prepare a note
 +
* Dani: '''Using Sound in Eclipse'''
 +
** Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see {{bug|496003}})
 +
** Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
 +
** Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
 +
** McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so '''that''' should really be leveraged
 +
** Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
 +
** Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
 +
** Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''June 7, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex
−
'''Jul 7, 2010:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, John, Dani
+
* no topics
−
* McQ - '''Graduating e4 without changing the name'''
+
−
** Jeff - a little effort upfront on messaging may pay off really big in the longer run ... picking up 4.0 without proper messaging may end up in lot negative press
+
−
** eg messages about the state of Performance, BIDI, ... cf Eclipse 4.0 "Early Adopter Release"
+
−
* Dani - '''BREE to 1.5 for JDT-UI''', what is the process?
+
−
** '''approved''', all in favor, eat our own dogfood, 1.6 does not provide much benefit
+
−
* Dani - '''Checkin Policies for 3.6.1 Maintenance Stream'''
+
−
** We should have more control over what goes into M-builds .. what's the least intrusive way doing so?
+
−
** McQ suggests M7-ish policies + endgame . Dani suggests mandatory 1-committer code review. Martin requires fix verification.
+
−
** Bring up the topic on Arch call, since committers are affected .. the goal is keeping quality high and having change control.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 30, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, John
+
'''May 31, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex
−
* No negative response yet about switching to Java 6 reference platforms
+
* Dani: '''IP Log'''
−
** Components free to move up but not a free-for-all. Justify reasons for moving up on eclipse-pmc mailing list.
+
** The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
−
** In many cases there is little added benefit of Java 6 so Java 5 is more likely as a bundle execution environment
+
** In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
−
* 4.0 release and bundle/package naming
+
* Dani: '''Release Review'''
−
** Agreed that we will not migrate bundle/package namespaces at this time
+
** Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
−
** e4 API is not ready so the separation is helpful to divide it from the mature API
+
* Dani: '''Update Jetty to 3.9.3'''
−
** It is not simply a package name issue, there are also class names containing "e4". Need to work through the process of merging the new API with the old, but this will take time
+
** Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
 +
* Dani: '''RC4 Status Update'''
 +
** Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 23, 2010:''' - Jeff, John
+
'''May 24, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin
−
* No topics
+
* Dani: '''IP Log Generator''' - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
 +
* Dani: '''Release Review''' - Deadline next week (June 2)
 +
* Dani: '''Deprecation Request from Brian'''
 +
** Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
 +
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date'''
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
 +
** Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
 +
** Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
 +
** This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
 +
* Dani: '''Neon Status'''
 +
** Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 16, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Jeff
+
'''May 17, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
−
* McQ - '''Java 4 going away''' (was EOL since October 2008, Java 5 EOL since October 2009)
+
* Dani: '''{{Bug|475184}} Neon Plan Update 2'''
−
** Dani: Don't bump up any BREBump up to 1.5 only if needed
+
** Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
−
** Jeff: If moving off 1.4, why not move up to 1.6 ?
+
** SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
−
*** Reality is that we want the tiny Foundatation-1.1 or the big wad, and 1.5 is no better than 1.6
+
*** Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
−
*** Equinox may start using Generics and down-compile to 1.4 ... think about what's in ercp
+
**** Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
−
** Start a cross-project discussion... question is whether everyone who depends on Platform has 1.6 VM Support
+
*** Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
−
** Martin has no problem with 1.6, suggest asking on cross-project / some of the bigger players (e.g. Jetty, Modeling, ...)
+
** Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
−
*** McQ to ask Boris bring up with the Board
+
** '''AI Dani''' to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
−
* Martin, Jeff, Dani vacation next 2 weeks (likely not on the call).
+
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date''' - EMO: To be decided per project
 +
** IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
 +
** Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
 +
*** gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
 +
** Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
 +
* Dani: '''Policy for Neon.Update Releases''' - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
 +
** Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
 +
** Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
 +
** Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - '''decision''': discuss feature by feature at PMC
 +
** Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
 +
** In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
 +
* Dani: '''Neon RC2 Builds Update'''
 +
** Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
 +
** Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
 +
** GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
 +
** Lars: {{bug|493477}} detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 9, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, McQ, John
+
'''May 10, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
−
* Dani - '''Approval for Docs''' - flexibility around docs is good, but after RC4 is too late.
+
* Dani: '''Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases'''
−
* Dani - '''Re-Opening HEAD''' - basically OK, to be discussed at the Arch call.
+
** Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
−
* McQ - '''Shutting down status messages''' for rest of the month except for really noteworthy things.
+
* Martin: '''RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2'''
 +
** GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
 +
*** Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
 +
** Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
 +
*** Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
 +
*** There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
 +
*** Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
 +
** Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
 +
*** Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
 +
*** Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 2, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, McQ, John, McQ
+
'''May 3, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
−
* Dani - '''ECF Issues''': Why does Eclipse have a process with Approvals while ECF does not. At the moment, there is a mutual dependency.
+
* [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02598.html Brian's request on the PMC list]
−
** Once we decided to consume them, we have no control over their rules.
+
** McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
−
** Our only option is not consuming late changes from them (and thus burn the community and them).
+
** Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
−
** John - there are some cases where we could push back a bit more (without going to the limit of not consuming at all).
+
** Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...  
−
** Problems have been due to the build (and not due to quality issues in their code). But this doesn't change the fact that '''ANY''' late binding change is work and risk and should thus be pushed back if possible.
+
** McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
−
** McQ would like to be more flexible accepting changes .. are we becoming too stiff? ie. do what we can to mitigate risk, but live with taking risk .. that's part of the Eclipse Way.
+
** Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
−
* John - '''Builds after RC4'''
+
** '''ACTION''' McQ to -1 and argue why.
−
** Need PMC agreement. John going to discuss cross-project criteria.
+
−
** McQ doesn't want to tie our release to the winds of others (outside Eclipse) getting back to us or not. '''We should not be asking cross-project for approval.'''
+
−
** Each project is going to do what makes most sense to them (including us). In favor of having the conversation, but not asking for approval.
+
−
* John - '''When to start 3.7 and 3.6.1 builds''' - defer to next week.
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
* Alex: '''Update on Accessibility'''
−
'''May 26, 2010:''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Jeff, John
+
** broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
−
* Brief meeting. John just mentions that there's surprisingly many "Critical" bugs. Maybe just a triage problem. Will bring up in Arch call.
+
** due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
 +
** Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
 +
*** and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
 +
** Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 19, 2010:''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Jeff, John
+
'''April 26, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ
−
* John - {{bug|27930}} '''Naming of Eclipse Classic'''
+
* Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
−
** McQ - No other package on that page is the output of a single project, would want to see Eclipse SDK removed from packages page
+
* Alex: '''Accessibility''' - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
−
** Jeff - "RCP/Plugin Developer" used to be direct replacements (SDK + Mylyn + XML Editor), but now also includes RAP (217MB)
+
** Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
−
** Dani - Some people go to downloads/ and then look for a milestone
+
** McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
−
** "Development Builds" tab provides access to milestones of packages; "Projects" tab provides access to direct project output.
+
* Alex: '''Platform.ui generification of project'''
−
** '''Resolution:''' 650.000 people have downloaded classic (#2 download), even scrolling down - changing this is a waste.
+
** Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
−
* Dani - {{bug|313524}} '''Preference for new API Constant''' for the Formatter (also [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=59891#c45 bug 59891 comment 45] and onwards)
+
** McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
−
** Some people don't like the new look (method wrapping) - currently no way to have the formatter behave the same in 3.5 and 3.6
+
** Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
−
** '''Resolution:''' pmc+ since little effort avoids lot of churn. Keeping the functionality without allowing to disable is a no-go.
+
** Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
−
* Martin - '''Feedback channel for removing API''' process (e.g. {{bug|311931}})
+
** '''ACTION Alex''' to prepare a message for review and then send that.
−
** '''Resolution:''' Add a suggestion to the [[Eclipse/API Central/API Removal Process]] page to start fresh for the feedback channel if there's a lot of discussion on the existing bug (by bugzilla clone)
+
* Lars: '''Copyright discussion'''
−
* John - '''4.0 topics'''
+
** Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
−
** FYI: Ian created a draft of a [http://www.eclipse.org/helios/eclipse-sdk-4.0/ landing page]. Working on a [http://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse/Eclipse_SDK_4.0_FAQ release FAQ] page
+
** The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
 +
* Dani: '''Update on FEEP'''
 +
** Paul not reached out yet
 +
** A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
 +
* Dani: '''Update on M7'''
 +
** Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
 +
** Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full
  
−
<hr/>
+
<br/>
−
'''May 12, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, John, Jeff, Dani
+
'''April 19, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)
−
* Remaining work for Release - John: Checklist (Docs, collective N&N etc... IP Logs end May)
+
* Dani: '''IP Stuff''' on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
−
** [[Eclipse/Release checklist]], and [[Eclipse Doc Checklist]]. '''AI Dani''' has another one for Docs - will update for 3.6 and send offline
+
* Dani: '''FEEP''' discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
−
** [[Platform-releng-faq#Eclipse_Release_checklist]] also links to [[3.3 Release checklist]]
+
** General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
−
* IP Logs for subprojects - '''AI Jeff''' talk to Wayne to allow IP logs for container projects, also ask Boris (committer rep) - unsure if we have a committer rep on the IP Advisory committee, but we should have
+
** Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
−
* Eclipse SDK 4.0 Naming
+
** Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
−
** John - from Mailing List discussion, "Eclipse SDK 4.0 Early Adopter Release" seemed to be the favorite one
+
* Dani: '''All PMC please review and +1 API requests''' when you find time
−
** Next year's release will be 4.1. Ian going to prepare a landing page to send the right message, working with Boris and John
+
** McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
−
* API Deletion - luceneSearchParticipant
+
** '''AGREEMENT''' on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
−
** Deprecation should include a migration path (if it exists).
+
* '''Reviews vs. Features'''
−
** Will document deletions in the migration guide (and probably also in the README)
+
** Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora
−
** Martin: Add a Bugzilla Keyword for API Deletions, will make it very easy to create a query for all pending API deletions
+
−
** Jeff: Whatever we do, current deletions should be examplary.
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
<br/>
−
'''May 5, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, John, Dani
+
'''April 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex
−
* Martin - {{bug|309059}} root cert validity? - Tom investigating, no new info
+
* Lars: '''Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement'''
−
* Martin - How to mark issues for [[Polish3.6]] (UNC issues, Launcher vmargs {{bug|149994}}) - who sets the Bugzilla polish kwd?
+
** [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=485257#c13 bug 485257_c13] EMO: All information is in the git repos
−
** Martin to bring up again, and add to the Polish Wiki, and add the polish keyword on bz.
+
** McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
−
** Any Eclipse Platform committer is allowed to suggest items that bug him personally on the polish list (against any component).
+
** Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
−
* John - Helios Plan update
+
** '''ACTION''' McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
−
* John - API Removal
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
* Lars: '''{{bug|490012}} Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE'''
−
'''Apr 28, 2010:''' - Jeff, Martin, John, McQ, Dani
+
** Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
−
* Martin - '''[[Eclipse/UNC_Paths]]''' - testing for 3.6 ? Bugzilla: [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwords&short_desc=unc&classification=Eclipse&classification=RT&product=Equinox&product=Platform&product=JDT&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&product=PDE All open with UNC in the summary]
+
** Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
−
** Especially {{bug|289322}} and {{bug|262601}} are blocking for Martin, because these make it impossible to have Eclipse installed on an UNC path (common scenario in large organizations)
+
** Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
−
** Consensus: ''No concerted effort'', there are likely other more pressing issues; but ''investigate and prioritize what we find, and fix if possible''.
+
** '''DECISION''' to get rid of the strict error per project.
−
** <b><i>Running on UNC is considered a Polish item</i></b>.
+
 
−
* Jeff, McQ - '''Eclipse 4.0 Naming'''
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|475934}} API Change on model processing order'''
−
** Suggestion: "Eclipse 4.0 Indigo Preview"
+
** Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
−
** McQ: Don't want to send a negative message - it ''is'' usable though add-on support may be missing
+
** McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
−
** John: This is a new release of the Platform, but not all of Eclipse Foundation technology... unsure how to phrase that into a release name
+
** McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
−
** Jeff: Based on this, putting Indigo into the name is a negative and may trigger false assumptions
+
*** Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
−
** McQ: ''Eclipse SDK 4.0 Developer Release'' - sends the right message
+
*** Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
−
** Jeff: '''Come up with 3 or 4 suggestions and bounce these around'''. Start a public discussion. Check with other OSS projects, e.g. Andrew Overholt
+
*** Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
−
* McQ - '''1.5 BREE for Resources to support Unicode Characters'''
+
** Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
−
** Suggest everything on top of the base RCP move up to 1.5
+
** '''DECISION''' to allow making the change and announce widely.
−
** Jeff: "Move when you need to and not before" - when do we "need to"
+
 
−
* John - '''[[Eclipse/API Central/API Removal Process]]
+
* Dani: '''FEEP and EMO Hiring Update'''
−
** Just a compilation of things discussed before. '''Discuss on the Mailing List'''
+
** EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
−
* McQ - '''Pascal as the OBR spec lead'''
+
** Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
−
** From point of view of the Eclipse Project, can't imagine what value we'd get from participating in OBR spec. IBM might care.
+
** Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
 +
 
 +
* Dani: '''IDE-dev proposal'''
 +
** People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
 +
** Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
 +
*** McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
 +
*** OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 21, 2010:''' - Jeff, Martin, John, Dani, McQ
+
'''April 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
−
* John - extended '''2 day test pass''' for M7 on Mon and Tue
+
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
−
* Jeff - '''Eclipse 4.0 naming'''
+
** Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
−
** McQ hopes that Eclipse 4.0 will be good enough for public consumption - whatever we call it, it needs to be what we call it
+
** Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
−
** Jeff - the message should be that it's (a) new, (b) cool, (c) not quite done yet
+
** Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
−
** McQ - 4.0 won't be as performant as 3.x. Users will see the new cool presentation, but other than that it's like 3.6
+
* Dani: '''Solaris 32-bit'''
−
** Biggest problem will be people who don't follow the Community and just get 4.0 because they heard about it
+
** Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
−
** Jeff - Comes down to setting expectations. Naming is one aspect of this, there's other aspects.
+
** Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
−
** John - Ian organized an e4-evangelist call.
+
*** Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
−
** McQ - Most people will just consume the release train (Helios) anyways, and will notice that 4.0 is "different".
+
** McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
−
* Martin - {{bug|306822}} '''IncrementalBuilder.getRule()''' API addition: Ask James whether CDT Helios can pick up the change
+
* Dani: '''New Solstice Welcome'''
−
* Martin - '''James for committer''' - move to public policy of only considering committed contributions
+
** Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
 +
** Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
 +
** McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
 +
* Alex: '''FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)'''
 +
** "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
 +
*** Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
 +
*** It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
 +
*** McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
 +
** Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
 +
*** '''AI Dani''' send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
 +
** Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
 +
** Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
 +
*** McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
 +
*** Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
 +
*** McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal '''Transparency''' on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
 +
*** McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
 +
**** Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: '''THIS''' is what the FEEP should have adressed !
 +
** Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
 +
** Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
 +
*** McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
 +
** Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
 +
* Lars '''Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy'''
 +
** Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 14, 2010:''' - John, Dani, Martin, Jeff
+
'''March 29, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex
−
* Martin - '''Startup Performance tests''': Cold start after reboot is 20% slower in 3.6m6 compared to 3.5.2 (while warm start is about the same)
+
* Lars: '''PDE Build in Maintenance''' - Officially state this ?
−
** Manual test: Reboot a minimal WinXP system, then start into a fresh workspace with 1 JDT project (20 files) 1 open file in the editor.
+
** PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
−
** 28 sec in 3.5.2 but 36 sec in 3.6m6. Will file a bug tomorrow.
+
** Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
−
** John: There are 2 startup performance tests in the suite, but they are unreliable. In 3.6, changed the way tests are installed (director rather than dropins), thus baseline is not helpful.
+
** McQ: '''DECISION''' Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
−
** Jeff: Try have a look at {{Bug|308157}} Jarfile cache now limited to 100. Reason might just be cycling through more Jar's.
+
* Lars: '''Integrate more projects into Platform UI?'''
−
* John, Dani - '''Polish List'''
+
** Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
−
* John - '''e4 plan update'''. Waiting on McQ, wants an accurate list on what's graduating.
+
** Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
−
** Jeff - once something is in 4.0 you cannot remove in 4.x so better think twice before graduating.
+
** Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
−
** John - Eclipse SDK 4.0 has a minimal API exposed, most new stuff is under the covers so this is not so much of an issue.
+
** '''DECISION''' to not merge projects at this time.
−
** Jeff - More important to have Eclipse SDK 4.0 rock solid than have it feature complete. Do few things well rather than many things poorly.
+
* Lars: '''Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list'''
−
** John - '''Self-hosting a day on Eclipse 4.0 without blocking issues!''' (But much to be polished, bugs, errors in the log etc).
+
** McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
−
* Jeff - '''Runtime SDK's vs "targets"''': The label SDK is ambiguous. Want to install tooling + target platform together, but cannot do that today.
+
** Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
−
** Today, we use "SDK" for (a) tools+source+docs, or (b) runtime+source+docs. None of both is really an SDK.
+
** Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. '''AI Dani''' notify mailing list.
−
** Better call the target stuff just "targets".
+
* Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
−
** Developer docs as part of the tooling is wrong ... should be associated with targets instead.
+
** Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"
−
** John: p2 does have the ability to install into multiple profiles (plan = multiple profiles)... might be (mis)used for this, is it a hack?
+
−
** Jeff: Much target provisioning was deferred off 3.6
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 7, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff, John
+
'''March 22, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* Builds - short call
+
* Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
 +
* Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
 +
* Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
 +
* Discussion about Che
 +
** McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
 +
** Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
 +
** McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Mar 31, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
'''March 15, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* Martin - '''EclipseCon Report'''
+
* Dani: '''Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)'''
−
** General industry trend pointing up (as perceived on the exhibition floor); e4 rover great success! other strong topics included build (b3, buckminster, maven / tycho / nexus, athena...)
+
* Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
−
** e4 message in general very well positioned and received; git / egit was another hot topic
+
* McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
−
** Modeling and RT projects in an up trend, other projects seem to go slightly down in terms of Community interest as well as commercial involvement
+
* Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
−
** API Tutorial very well received, Martin going to work on a "Wiki" version of checklists and guidance, will notify AC when done
+
* Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
−
* John - Eclipse 4.0: Timing for graduating e4 incubation material into the Eclipse proper
+
** Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
−
** We cannot ship an Eclipse SDK out of the e4 project
+
** Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
−
** Want a clear message what Eclipse 4.0 is... probably "includes incubating components" like some EPP packages
+
** Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
−
** '''AI John''' talk to Mike and Ian
+
* VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
 +
** Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
 +
** Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)
 +
 
 +
'''March 8, 2016''' - No call
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Mar 17, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
+
'''March 1, 2016''' - Dani, Martin
−
* McQ: '''git''' vs CVS: Should there be contributions by Platform on Egit?
+
* Dani OOO next week
−
** Martin: Don't know how well egit proceeded recently, Boris might know more... important point is that the major workflows are perfect. Looks like the major workflows have been identified already.
+
* Alex: '''{{bug|179924}} SSH-agent authentication''' 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
−
* Martin: '''WebkitGTK / MiniBrowser''': In addition to the recent WebkitGTK discussion, perhaps work on a "Minibrowser" API that can live with published frozen Mozilla API only? Many apps may not need the full feature-richness of today's Browser.
+
** Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
−
** McQ unsure whether this is worthwile, since all industry trends go towards more web integration. '''AI Martin''' follow up with Grant
+
** Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
−
* Dani: '''Performance and Polish''' passes
+
* EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.
−
** All teams need to fix the issues that Frederic finds. M7 is the performance and polish pass. Prioritize items.
+
−
* Dani: '''Freeze Plan'''
+
−
** Suggest a 2-day test pass (mon/tue) before the RC's, ie move 1 day from RC2 into M7
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Mar 10, 2010:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, John
+
'''February 23, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex
−
* John: '''Provisional API guidelines''' (removing the requirement to have "internal" in the package name) - important for e4 which will have a lot of provisional API.
+
* Dani: '''Mars.2 is on track'''
−
** See also {{bug|261874}} and Wiki [[Provisional API Guidelines Update Proposal]]
+
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
−
** "Old School" wanted to make provisional API deliberately painful. Migrating "provisional" to real without renaming will make breakage more subtle
+
** EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
−
** The game has changed: Adding x-internal, friends and API Tooling works much better than before, making it clear where API is provisional
+
* Dani: '''Update on Welcome'''
−
** Martin: Much in favor of this, do we have any markup beyond x-internal for (a) making provisional API more explicitly visible or (b) work on a smaller granularity such as just a class?
+
** Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
−
*** McQ: granularity smaller than package makes it too easy to pollute API
+
* McQ: '''Scrollbars on Windows''' and their appearance
−
*** Jeff: would like x-api-status:=provisional markup instead of x-internal:=true ... better do it right than half-baken. Could probably come to a fairly fast consensus on MANIFEST markup
+
** Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
−
** Resolution Lets agree now that x-internal is sufficient for provisional API, and discuss further approvements in parallel. '''AI John''' to search existing bugs about provisional API markup and initiate a discussion on the eclipse-pmc mailing list.
+
** Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
−
* Jeff: '''Target Provisioning and PDE:''' Target components in Galileo (which cannot be installed into the host) - came up with sort of a hack which still confuses users
+
** McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
−
** Want just a little bit help in PDE to make target provisioning just a little bit better .. a number of PDE bugs related to this, many been deferred .. there will be new bugs coming to capture what can be done in the short term
+
** Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
−
** Resolution: will mark up those new bugs where they request PMC involvement
+
** Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
−
* McQ: '''Build Quality:''' There is traditionally a drop in quality around this time of year (API Freeze and Eclipsecon), plus infrastructure problems. It's not really bad but we need to be careful now.
+
** Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).
−
** John: Resist the urge to put in extra fixes. We are past the test pass. Quality over function, especially now.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Mar 3, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
 
−
* Martin: Remove org.eclipse.update.configurator and related bundles from SDK? As per {{bug|304505}} it makes Eclipse slow even when off.
 
−
** Dani: Might be more than a packaging issue, somebody would have to invest
 
−
** McQ: Should fix the Performance issue at any rate, regardless of other issues.
 
−
* John sick, Dani vacation next week.
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''February 16, 2016''' - Alex, Dani, Martin
−
'''Feb 24, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
+
* no topics
−
* Dani: Remove Java 7 support as a plan item due to (a) legal reasons and (b) Java 7 not being finished when Eclipse 3.6 ships
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Feb 17, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, John
+
 
−
* Martin: {{bug|196337}} Pushing CDT Spawner into the Platform?
+
'''February 9, 2016''' - Alex, McQ, Dani
−
** John, Dani: Platform could only accept it when there is use for it in the SDK. Otherwise it would just bloat the Platform
+
* Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
−
** Recommended best practice: Keep Spawner living in CDT, but put it into a separate bundle such that it can be used by others out of Helios or other p2 Repos
+
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|466370}} Welcome Screen redesign
−
** The [[Nexus Project]], which was once meant to collect such micro functionality to be shared between projects was never successful. Similar requests (e.g. faceted projects) are consumed as individual bundles through p2 today, no matter in which project they have their home where they are developed.
+
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|472614}} Smart Project Importer
−
* Martin: {{bug|301563}} Fast project import from snapshot data - UI or not?
+
−
** John: Want some UI in the Platform in order to test it more easily, e.g. an export wizard
+
−
* John: Webkit
+
−
** Foundation is considering allowing LGPL for exempt prereqs, but not for works-with .. missing a policy for dealing with LGPL works-with
+
−
** John: Our original reason for marking works-with is that the SWT browser can use either Mozilla or WebKit. However our long term direction is WebKit-only due to brittleness of the Mozilla API which keeps breaking us. There is an increasing number of distros bundling these WebKit libraries so there is a reasonable chance going forward that the library will already be present on the user's machine.
+
−
** Martin: Exempt works-with (optional) prereq is perfectly fine for Webkit, since there is a chance it's already there on a Platform (similar to Mozilla)
+
−
** Classifying it as such makes most sense for Product builders, who look at the prereqs to understand what they need to bundle with their Eclipse based product.
+
−
** PMC agreed to reclassify these libraries as exempt pre-req.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Feb 10, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ
+
 
−
* We agreed to list WebKitGTK and libsoup 2.4 as works-with prerequisites
+
'''February 2, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
−
* We need to find consensus on {{bug|243582}} (embedding source info in binaries)
+
* Dani: '''Foundation Hires''' - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
−
* Discussed moving Ubuntu version on the plan from 9.04 to 10.04. It is too early to make this decision because release candidates of 10.04 are not yet available, but we will continue to monitor it and make the decision to move up (or not) later in the 3.6 cycle
+
* Dani: '''Neon M5''' went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
 +
* Dani: '''CQ Deadline''' on Feb.12 for Neon
 +
* Dani: {{bug|486647}} for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
 +
** With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
 +
** Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
 +
*** Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
 +
*** We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
 +
*** Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
 +
** Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Feb 03, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin
+
'''January 26, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars
−
* Dani: {{Bug|301563}} -  Fast project import from snapshot data
+
* Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
−
** Has the feature been verified to really return the expected performance gain? - Martin: Yes, Cisco reports 10 minute -> 5 seconds improvement by using the feature on project import on their view (65000 files)
+
* Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
−
** Is the feature valuable without Index contributions from JDT / CDT? - Martin: Yes, even "plain" projects benefit when there are linked resources pointing to web folders through RSE/EFS since they can be browsed immediately and refresh can be reduced to what's really needed. But most benefit is gained when there is also a shared index to be imported for immediate use.
+
* Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track
−
** Dani proposed checkin into a branch for easier merge / review - Martin: Will start working with patches
+
−
** AI Martin: Contact Sharon regarding IP review (reserve a slot)
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 27, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
'''January 19, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* Dani: Markus Keller taking over JDT UI
+
* Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
−
* John: M6 Splashscreen for Eclipsecon: {{bug|297355}}
+
* Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
−
* McQ: Removing Builds - SWT needs Linux-Motif, so only WPF about to be removed
+
** Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
−
** In discussions with Microsoft, it turned out that WPF is not required to get full Windows 7 experience under Win32
+
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''PDE Build''' - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
−
** XAML for styling was meant to be a cool idea but never got flying
+
** Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement '''in the Platform'''
−
** Socialize people with this -- find whether people are inerested in contributing on this, if yes then we should support them
+
** Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
−
* Still working the IBM approval process for travelling to Eclipsecon
+
** Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
−
* Avoid merging major feature work after a milestone's Tuesday test pass
+
** Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
 +
* Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
 +
** Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
 +
* SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
 +
* Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
 +
** Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
 +
* Martin: '''Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?'''
 +
** Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
 +
** Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
 +
*** Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
 +
** Debian or SuSE should be OK;
 +
** Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 20, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
'''January 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* McQ: Contacted Steve N, still interested but unlikely to get more energy for investing into Eclipse
+
* Dani: '''Upstaffing the PMC'''
−
* John: 3.5.2 test pass tomorrow, but yesterday's I-build been a mess
+
** Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
−
* McQ: Message about supporting Open JDK in a blog ... status should be "nice that it works but it's not a reference platform"
+
* Dani: '''Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng''' - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
 +
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''Remove PDE Build from our drops?'''
 +
** Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
 +
** McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
 +
** Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
 +
* Dani: {{bug|485257}} '''Copyright Policy Change''' - waiting on EMO/Legal input
 +
* Alex: '''Updating SWT to Java7'''
 +
* McQ: '''Travel for EclipseCon'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 13, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
'''January 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani
−
* McQ: U Manitoba students to help with technical communication (documentation, website, ...) for e4
+
* Dani: '''PMC Membership'''
−
* Dani: New way of contributing Capabilities for Helios... are we OK? - John: yes, Platform Capabilities are in the SDK feature
+
−
** FYI: Incubating projects are
+
−
* Martin: Documenting the Platforms we routinely test on
+
−
** Unittest / Perftest machines are know. When John updated the Reference Platform doc, he made sure that he knows at least one committer on each platform
+
−
** A poll to know what Platform(s) are actively used (by committers) on milestone granularity would be very helpful - John going to set that up
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 6, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Jeff
 
−
* Agreed on 3.5.2 [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/freeze_plan_3_5_2.php freeze plan]
 
−
** Note RC2 is a week earlier to avoid colliding with Helios M5 week
 
−
* Discussed Helios plan updates 2 {{bug|298200}}
 
−
** Update Java 7 plan item to indicate only working on publicly available bits. Some progress made on getting access to specs but going slowly.
 
−
** Update reference JRE's to latest version of each JRE
 
−
* Jeff will be away for next six weeks (vacation)
 
−
* McQ to contact Steve to see if he still wishes to remain on PMC
 
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Revision as of 11:21, 20 September 2016

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

Sep 20, 20160 - Martin, McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Resources Leadership - AI Dani reach out to Szymon
  • PMC upstaffing: Focus on large installs; UI Freeze monitor, code cleanup, solid solutions, focus on code reviews
  • Dani: Java 9 Moved to July 2017 - AI Dani talk to the Planning Council, proposing an "Update 1" in July
    • Better for consumers, available via "just update", though little bit extra work (CQ + Release Review)
    • Schedule looks still aggressive when looking at specifications; need to keep the team motivated
  • Dani: SelectionListener SWT Change - reverted for M2 since more clients were affected than expected
    • Proposed change turned out to be source-incompatible - will look at a different approach

Sep 13, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Lars

  • Upstaffing the PMC
  • Build failures due to an SWT Change

Sep 6, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Thanks for approving Noopur
  • Dani: Java Language Server Proposal - at the Foundation, will be called "JDT Language Server"
  • Dani: RC4 - Fix for an Equinox p2 issue, only known issue being fixed, looking good
  • Dani: Looking at the generic code editor, would prefer moving some things to M3 (talking to Sopot and Mickael)
  • LTS: Market for paid fixes on old versions not quite as good as expected
  • Release Reviews: When is a feature considered an "important feature" ?
    • Important Features require a full release review thus lots of effort, avoided for Neon.1
    • AI Dani discuss in Planning Council call tomorrow

Aug 30, 2016 - No topics

Aug 23, 2016 - No topics

Aug 16, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Lars

  • Dani will not always be available next two weeks (Eclipse Summit India and IBM Bangalore team visit)
    • Please split the load on +1'ing backport/API requests - please do review the code and set the pmc+1 flag
  • Dani: bug 498106 Oxygen Plan
    • Agreed by all so far, including removal of REL6 as a reference platform
    • Individual subproject Wikis look pretty consistent now
    • UNIX Platforms (Solaris,AIX,HP-UX) have been removed for M1
      • PPC-Linux Releng was also removed but accidentally (due to a hardware failure), will be restored for M2.
    • No consensus on Ubuntu yet - will keep 14.04 in for now, consider taking out on the next update
  • Dani: bug 499164 Version Numbering for Neon.1
    • The original "+5" or "+10" proposal showed some issues:
    • Update with skipping would propagate to features; no tooling; no real benefit of semantic versioning
    • AGREEMENT to keeping using the status quo for now ("allow small updates even with micro uprev only")
  • Lars: p2 pending patches
    • AI Dani send E-Mail to Tom - suggest reviews or merger p2 back to Platform
  • Dani: bug 499399 Eclipse Infrastructure Stability
    • Denis is looking at it - maybe too many requests coming in ?
  • Lars: e4 spy and wizard migration to PDE
    • Dani: Are wizards e4 specific, or could they be used with JFace ?
    • New SWT Layout Spy should go to SWT, rather then keeping in PDE's Build
    • Some spies usable also in RCP Apps - for example the e4 model spy - 6 independent projects, dependency on emf.edit
      • Looks like a big extension to PDE -- consider some consolidation and cleanup (tests, String externalization, ...)
      • AI Lars to check if contributors would be willing to clean up as discussed, then moving into pde.ui would be fine.

Aug 09, 2016 - Dani

  • no one joined - had private conversation with McQ later
    • guys, please announce when you can't join. I can make better use of my time than waiting for you in the call ;-) - thanks.

Aug 02, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: New Oxygen Plan Format
    • AI Dani ask Denis about aggregating the Sub Wiki's into the master page
  • Alex: SWT Fragments for ARM64 etc
    • Tycho doesn't support auto-selecting fragments - in contact with Jan and Tobias
    • Dani: Would like to revert changes - don't want to punish people who are not interested in fragments
    • Not really an SWT problem, so editing .target files would be a clean solution
    • Will probably go with empty (dummy) fragments without natives, as that's the simplest solution
  • Dani: SWT team - Lakshmi going to Sweden, will not be available until end 2016
    • Arun is mostly back, Sravan is now on Releng
    • Need to push further on building at the Foundation!!
    • Alex: Getting CentOS for building ... but test machines are on SLES11, which is too old, will need at least SLES12
      • Dani: Will need an owner at the Eclipse Foundation to ensure this proceeds ! Alex agreed to further drive this.
  • Target Env: Dropping REL6 -- reference platform for testing will only be REL7 (though will continue to run on REL6)
    • Reducing support level this year, in order to prepare for only supporting GTK3 next year

July 26, 2016 - no meeting

July 19, 2016 - no meeting

July 12, 2016 - McQ, Lars, Alex

  • Dani: Hackathon summary

July 5, 2016 - Lars, McQ, Alex, Dani, Martin

  • Lars: SWT move to Java 8
  • Alex: Initial builds of GTK 2.24 for AIX - planning to bump minimum GTK version to 2.24
    • Will remove non-cairo drawing, this is where most of the breakage happens
    • Ubuntu 12.04: 2.24.10 / 3.4.5
    • RHEL 6: 2.24.23-6
    • AIX, HP-UX, Solaris ? -- Oxygen will only focus on Linux, Windows, Mac
    • Secondary Platforms: Not built on EF Hardware, but interested parties can contribute binaries
    • Trying to support Platforms which can't move up to modern GTK at a similar pace as Linux is hard
    • AI Alex write up a message to the Community
  • Lars: bug 486961 extending the Eclipse Text Editor
  • Dani: Build, and Hackathon

June 28, 2016 - McQ, Martin, Alex

  • Discussion about Language Server Protocol
    • MS sponsoring hackathon in Zurich, Dani expected to go there
    • The protocol has an Open Source license, but there is no Open Source Governance ... who owns the specification?

June 21, 2016 -

June 14, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars

  • McQ: Mattermost / Slack for communication
    • not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
  • Lars: Master is Open
    • Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
    • Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
    • Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes (bug 360703) is open to improve that)
    • We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
  • Lars: Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ? - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
  • McQ: Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che (from ide-dev mailing list and bug 496114)
    • The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
    • The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
      • People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
    • The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
    • How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
      • At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
      • But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
  • Dani: What goes into the Neon Update Releases
    • as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
    • AI: Dani will prepare a note
  • Dani: Using Sound in Eclipse
    • Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see bug 496003)
    • Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
    • Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
    • McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so that should really be leveraged
    • Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
    • Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
    • Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.

June 7, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Alex

  • no topics

May 31, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: IP Log
    • The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
    • In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
  • Dani: Release Review
    • Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
  • Dani: Update Jetty to 3.9.3
    • Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
  • Dani: RC4 Status Update
    • Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command

May 24, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Martin

  • Dani: IP Log Generator - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
  • Dani: Release Review - Deadline next week (June 2)
  • Dani: Deprecation Request from Brian
    • Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
  • Dani: Copyright End Date
    • AGREEMENT to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
    • Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
    • Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
    • This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
  • Dani: Neon Status
    • Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time

May 17, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: bug 475184 Neon Plan Update 2
    • Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
    • SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
      • Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
        • Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
      • Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
    • Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
    • AI Dani to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
  • Dani: Copyright End Date - EMO: To be decided per project
    • IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
    • Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
      • gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
    • Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
  • Dani: Policy for Neon.Update Releases - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
    • Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
    • Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
    • Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - decision: discuss feature by feature at PMC
    • Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
    • In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
  • Dani: Neon RC2 Builds Update
    • Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
    • Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
    • GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
    • Lars: bug 493477 detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC

May 10, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Dani: Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases
    • Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
  • Martin: RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2
    • GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
      • Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
    • Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
      • Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
      • There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
      • Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
    • Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
      • Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
      • Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)

May 3, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Brian's request on the PMC list
    • McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
    • Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
    • Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...
    • McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
    • Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
    • ACTION McQ to -1 and argue why.
  • Alex: Update on Accessibility
    • broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
    • due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
    • Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
      • and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
    • Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !

April 26, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
  • Alex: Accessibility - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
    • Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
    • McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
  • Alex: Platform.ui generification of project
    • Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
    • McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
    • Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
    • Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
    • ACTION Alex to prepare a message for review and then send that.
  • Lars: Copyright discussion
    • Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
    • The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
  • Dani: Update on FEEP
    • Paul not reached out yet
    • A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
  • Dani: Update on M7
    • Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
    • Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full


April 19, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)

  • Dani: IP Stuff on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
  • Dani: FEEP discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
    • General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
    • Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
    • Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
  • Dani: All PMC please review and +1 API requests when you find time
    • McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
    • AGREEMENT on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
  • Reviews vs. Features
    • Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora


April 12, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex

  • Lars: Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement
    • bug 485257_c13 EMO: All information is in the git repos
    • McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
    • Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
    • ACTION McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
  • Lars: bug 490012 Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE
    • Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
    • Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
    • Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
    • DECISION to get rid of the strict error per project.
  • Dani: bug 475934 API Change on model processing order
    • Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
    • McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
    • McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
      • Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
      • Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
      • Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
    • Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
    • DECISION to allow making the change and announce widely.
  • Dani: FEEP and EMO Hiring Update
    • EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
    • Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
    • Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
  • Dani: IDE-dev proposal
    • People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
    • Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
      • McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
      • OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.

April 5, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: FEEP Update
    • Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
    • Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
    • Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
  • Dani: Solaris 32-bit
    • Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
    • Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
      • Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
    • McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
  • Dani: New Solstice Welcome
    • Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
    • Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
    • McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
  • Alex: FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)
    • "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
      • Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
      • It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
      • McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
    • Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
      • AI Dani send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
      • AI Martin compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
    • Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
    • Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
      • McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
      • Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
      • McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal Transparency on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
      • McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
        • Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: THIS is what the FEEP should have adressed !
    • Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
    • Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
      • McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
    • Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
  • Lars Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy
    • Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).

March 29, 2016 - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex

  • Lars: PDE Build in Maintenance - Officially state this ?
    • PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
    • Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
    • McQ: DECISION Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
  • Lars: Integrate more projects into Platform UI?
    • Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
    • Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
    • Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
    • DECISION to not merge projects at this time.
  • Lars: Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list
    • McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
    • Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
    • Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. AI Dani notify mailing list.
  • Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
    • Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"

March 22, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
  • Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
  • Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
  • Discussion about Che
    • McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
    • Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
    • McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?

March 15, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)
  • Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
  • McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
  • Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
  • Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
    • Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
    • Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
    • Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
  • VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
    • Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
    • Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)

March 8, 2016 - No call

March 1, 2016 - Dani, Martin

  • Dani OOO next week
  • Alex: bug 179924 SSH-agent authentication 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
    • Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
    • Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
  • EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.

February 23, 2016 - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex

  • Dani: Mars.2 is on track
  • Dani: FEEP Update
    • EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
  • Dani: Update on Welcome
    • Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
  • McQ: Scrollbars on Windows and their appearance
    • Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
    • Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
    • McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
    • Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
    • Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
    • Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).

February 16, 2016 - Alex, Dani, Martin

  • no topics

February 9, 2016 - Alex, McQ, Dani

  • Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
  • Dani: please take a look at bug 466370 Welcome Screen redesign
  • Dani: please take a look at bug 472614 Smart Project Importer

February 2, 2016 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Dani: Foundation Hires - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
  • Dani: Neon M5 went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
  • Dani: CQ Deadline on Feb.12 for Neon
  • Dani: bug 486647 for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
    • With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
    • Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
      • Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
      • We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
      • Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
    • Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default

January 26, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
  • Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
  • Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track

January 19, 2016 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
  • Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
    • Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
  • Dani: bug 485429 PDE Build - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
    • Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement in the Platform
    • Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
    • Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
    • Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
  • Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
    • Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
  • SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
  • Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
    • Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
  • Martin: Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?
    • Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
    • Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
      • Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
    • Debian or SuSE should be OK;
    • Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2

January 12, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Upstaffing the PMC
    • Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
  • Dani: Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
  • Dani: bug 485429 Remove PDE Build from our drops?
    • Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
    • McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
    • Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
  • Dani: bug 485257 Copyright Policy Change - waiting on EMO/Legal input
  • Alex: Updating SWT to Java7
  • McQ: Travel for EclipseCon

January 5, 2016 - McQ, Dani

  • Dani: PMC Membership

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