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= Documents =
 +
 +
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 +
 +
* [[E4/Graduation_4.0]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Unix Groups]]
 +
 
= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
  
'''Feb 10, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ
+
'''Sep 20, 20160''' - Martin, McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex
* We agreed to list WebKitGTK and libsoup 2.4 as works-with prerequisites
+
* Resources Leadership - '''AI Dani''' reach out to Szymon
* We need to find consensus on {{bug|243582}} (embedding source info in binaries)
+
* PMC upstaffing: Focus on large installs; UI Freeze monitor, code cleanup, solid solutions, focus on code reviews
* Discussed moving Ubuntu version on the plan from 9.04 to 10.04. It is too early to make this decision because release candidates of 10.04 are not yet available, but we will continue to monitor it and make the decision to move up (or not) later in the 3.6 cycle
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 Moved to July 2017''' - AI Dani talk to the Planning Council, proposing an "Update 1" in July
 +
** Better for consumers, available via "just update", though little bit extra work (CQ + Release Review)
 +
** Schedule looks still aggressive when looking at specifications; need to keep the team motivated
 +
* Dani: '''SelectionListener SWT Change''' - reverted for M2 since more clients were affected than expected
 +
** Proposed change turned out to be source-incompatible - will look at a different approach
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Feb 03, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin
+
'''Sep 13, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Lars
* Dani: {{Bug|301563}} -  Fast project import from snapshot data
+
* Upstaffing the PMC
** Has the feature been verified to really return the expected performance gain? - Martin: Yes, Cisco reports 10 minute -> 5 seconds improvement by using the feature on project import on their view (65000 files)
+
* Build failures due to an SWT Change
** Is the feature valuable without Index contributions from JDT / CDT? - Martin: Yes, even "plain" projects benefit when there are linked resources pointing to web folders through RSE/EFS since they can be browsed immediately and refresh can be reduced to what's really needed. But most benefit is gained when there is also a shared index to be imported for immediate use.
+
** Dani proposed checkin into a branch for easier merge / review - Martin: Will start working with patches
+
** AI Martin: Contact Sharon regarding IP review (reserve a slot)
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Jan 27, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
'''Sep 6, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin
* Dani: Markus Keller taking over JDT UI
+
* Dani: Thanks for approving Noopur
* John: M6 Splashscreen for Eclipsecon: {{bug|297355}}
+
* Dani: Java Language Server Proposal - at the Foundation, will be called "JDT Language Server"
* McQ: Removing Builds - SWT needs Linux-Motif, so only WPF about to be removed
+
* Dani: RC4 - Fix for an Equinox p2 issue, only known issue being fixed, looking good
** In discussions with Microsoft, it turned out that WPF is not required to get full Windows 7 experience under Win32
+
* Dani: Looking at the generic code editor, would prefer moving some things to M3 (talking to Sopot and Mickael)
** XAML for styling was meant to be a cool idea but never got flying
+
* LTS: Market for paid fixes on old versions not quite as good as expected
** Socialize people with this -- find whether people are inerested in contributing on this, if yes then we should support them
+
* Release Reviews: When is a feature considered an "important feature" ?
* Still working the IBM approval process for travelling to Eclipsecon
+
** Important Features require a full release review thus lots of effort, avoided for Neon.1
* Avoid merging major feature work after a milestone's Tuesday test pass
+
** '''AI Dani''' discuss in Planning Council call tomorrow
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Jan 20, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
<strike>Aug 30, 2016 - No topics</strike>
* McQ: Contacted Steve N, still interested but unlikely to get more energy for investing into Eclipse
+
* John: 3.5.2 test pass tomorrow, but yesterday's I-build been a mess
+
* McQ: Message about supporting Open JDK in a blog ... status should be "nice that it works but it's not a reference platform"
+
  
<hr/>
+
<strike>Aug 23, 2016 - No topics</strike>
'''Jan 13, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
* McQ: U Manitoba students to help with technical communication (documentation, website, ...) for e4
+
* Dani: New way of contributing Capabilities for Helios... are we OK? - John: yes, Platform Capabilities are in the SDK feature
+
** FYI: Incubating projects are
+
* Martin: Documenting the Platforms we routinely test on
+
** Unittest / Perftest machines are know. When John updated the Reference Platform doc, he made sure that he knows at least one committer on each platform
+
** A poll to know what Platform(s) are actively used (by committers) on milestone granularity would be very helpful - John going to set that up
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Jan 6, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Jeff
+
'''Aug 16, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars
* Agreed on 3.5.2 [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/freeze_plan_3_5_2.php freeze plan]
+
* Dani will not always be available next two weeks (Eclipse Summit India and IBM Bangalore team visit)
** Note RC2 is a week earlier to avoid colliding with Helios M5 week
+
** Please split the load on +1'ing backport/API requests - please do review the code and set the pmc+1 flag
* Discussed Helios plan updates 2 {{bug|298200}}
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|498106}} Oxygen Plan'''
** Update Java 7 plan item to indicate only working on publicly available bits. Some progress made on getting access to specs but going slowly.
+
** Agreed by all so far, including removal of REL6 as a reference platform
** Update reference JRE's to latest version of each JRE
+
** Individual subproject Wikis look pretty consistent now
* Jeff will be away for next six weeks (vacation)
+
** UNIX Platforms (Solaris,AIX,HP-UX) have been removed for M1
* McQ to contact Steve to see if he still wishes to remain on PMC
+
*** PPC-Linux Releng was also removed but accidentally (due to a hardware failure), will be restored for M2.
 
+
** No consensus on Ubuntu yet - will keep 14.04 in for now, consider taking out on the next update
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|499164}} Version Numbering for Neon.1'''
 +
** The original "+5" or "+10" proposal showed some issues:
 +
** Update with skipping would propagate to features; no tooling; no real benefit of semantic versioning
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to keeping using the status quo for now ("allow small updates even with micro uprev only")
 +
* Lars: '''p2 pending patches'''
 +
** '''AI Dani''' send E-Mail to Tom - suggest reviews or merger p2 back to Platform
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|499399}} Eclipse Infrastructure Stability'''
 +
** Denis is looking at it - maybe too many requests coming in ?
 +
* Lars: '''e4 spy and wizard migration to PDE'''
 +
** Dani: Are wizards e4 specific, or could they be used with JFace ?
 +
** New SWT Layout Spy should go to SWT, rather then keeping in PDE's Build
 +
** Some spies usable also in RCP Apps - for example the e4 model spy - 6 independent projects, dependency on emf.edit
 +
*** Looks like a big extension to PDE -- consider some consolidation and cleanup (tests, String externalization, ...)
 +
*** '''AI Lars''' to check if contributors would be willing to clean up as discussed, then moving into pde.ui would be fine.
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Dec 9:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
 
* Agree on the [[Eclipse/API Central/Deprecation Policy]]
 
  
 +
'''Aug 09, 2016''' - Dani
 +
* no one joined - had private conversation with McQ later
 +
** '''guys, please announce when you can't join. I can make better use of my time than waiting for you in the call ;-) - thanks.'''
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Dec 2:''' - John, Dani, McQ
 
* Some discussion about getting good talk coverage at EclipseCon
 
* Need to revisit API deprecation policy when we have enough attendees
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''Aug 02, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
'''Nov 25:''' - John, Dani, McQ
+
* Dani: New [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_7_draft.xml Oxygen Plan Format]
* No interesting discussion due to lack of attendees
+
** '''AI Dani''' ask Denis about aggregating the Sub Wiki's into the master page
 +
* Alex: SWT Fragments for ARM64 etc
 +
** Tycho doesn't support auto-selecting fragments - in contact with Jan and Tobias
 +
** Dani: Would like to revert changes - don't want to punish people who are not interested in fragments
 +
** Not really an SWT problem, so editing .target files would be a clean solution
 +
** Will probably go with empty (dummy) fragments without natives, as that's the simplest solution
 +
* Dani: SWT team - Lakshmi going to Sweden, will not be available until end 2016
 +
** Arun is mostly back, Sravan is now on Releng
 +
** Need to push further on building at the Foundation!!
 +
** Alex: Getting CentOS for building ... but test machines are on SLES11, which is too old, will need at least SLES12
 +
*** Dani: Will need an owner at the Eclipse Foundation to ensure this proceeds ! Alex agreed to further drive this.
 +
* Target Env: Dropping REL6 -- reference platform for testing will only be REL7 (though will continue to run on REL6)
 +
** Reducing support level this year, in order to prepare for only supporting GTK3 next year
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Nov 18:''' - John, Martin, Dani
 
* John: Deadlocks / errors during JDT and CVS tests - deadlocks should be fixed, not sure about other failures.
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''July 26, 2016''' - no meeting
'''Nov 11:''' - Dani, Martin, John, Jeff
+
* Nothing to discuss.
+
  
<hr/>
+
'''July 19, 2016''' - no meeting
'''Nov 4:''' - Dani, Martin
+
* Discussed speeding up builds along the lines of {{bug|293830}}.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Oct 28:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
'''July 12, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Alex
* McQ - vacation for 2 weeks: Dani to do the calls, John to do the status messages
+
* Dani: Hackathon summary
* McQ, Dani - IntelliJ gone open source; but not making the J2EE part open source; GUI designer and XML tooling is open source; JUnit and TestNG integration; svn integration out of the box
+
** Seems to be a very liberal license - pulling in the UI designer into the Eclipse world might be an option
+
** We need more information
+
** '''Pre-integration''' of stuff: Could we have a "Get more stuff into Eclipse" menu item that auomatically grabs the popular stuff, rather than offering the more complex repo choices we have today
+
*** Or, lazy loading: E.g. click on a docs stub, open a dialog to install the docs
+
*** Address the casual end users like "Hey I just want to edit some XML"
+
** Martin: This is the "product" vs "framework" discussion which has come up before
+
** McQ: perhaps it is just a question of level of indirection?
+
** Martin: Yes but who is going to actually put resources on that?
+
** McQ: must have a solution in the base (the Platform)
+
** Martin: That would be great, then we can approach the AC with a much stronger background
+
** McQ: want to be competitive. Will know more about resourcing by Nov 16.
+
** John: Already have a plan for some groundwork for this in 3.6. Some Mylyn solution exists on top of p2.
+
** '''AI Martin''' put the item on the AC agenda
+
* Martin - Follow up on Oct 14 McQ '''Official Eclipse Platform Deprecation Policy'''
+
** John - Concerned about putting semantics on "Marketing numbers" for the releases. Focus on the time ("2 years") rather than releases.
+
** John - What about upstream projects? E.g. ECF had a major release
+
*** McQ - cannot make decisions for other projects. If I can only move when everyone else moves, we get a deadlock. Would like to only commit to version ranges that are re-exported
+
** '''AI''' continue discussion on the mailing list
+
 
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Oct 21:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Jeff
+
'''July 5, 2016''' - Lars, McQ, Alex, Dani, Martin
* McQ - '''backward compatibility''': struggling more with maintaining backward compatibility than hoped
+
* Lars: SWT move to Java 8
** 12000 references to "internal" in IBM products (RAD) according to API - mostly due to verbatim copies of Platform code, will need better API tooling to get rid of these false positives -- e.g. by grouping together by "copied package"
+
* Alex: Initial builds of GTK 2.24 for AIX - planning to bump minimum GTK version to 2.24
** IBM may need to keep the shape of internals alive when refactoring code
+
** Will remove non-cairo drawing, this is where most of the breakage happens
** Keep 3.x in place as is. Do any larger API changes in e4.
+
** Ubuntu 12.04: 2.24.10 / 3.4.5
** Jeff - consumers need to understand that there is a lot of work being put into API, and it requires consumer's feedback / interaction
+
** RHEL 6: 2.24.23-6
** If non-IBM committers need to break internals, they are allowed to do so. If IBM people need the internals, they will invest time to work around that again.
+
** AIX, HP-UX, Solaris ? -- Oxygen will only focus on Linux, Windows, Mac
* Jeff - '''retention policies in the Galileo Repo'''
+
** Secondary Platforms: Not built on EF Hardware, but interested parties can contribute binaries
** Just keep on everybody's radar. Getting this right is VERY important for the entire community.
+
** Trying to support Platforms which can't move up to modern GTK at a similar pace as Linux is hard
** We got some good stories in p2, but these don't mesh very well with mirroring (unless the entire repo is mirrored)
+
** '''AI Alex''' write up a message to the Community
** Martin - discussions in last EAC call: Maven has long history of keeping old versions alive, Andrew Overholt mentioned that making access to old versions too easy may also be a problem
+
* Lars: {{bug|486961}} extending the Eclipse Text Editor
 
+
** Dani: Text Editor must remain unchanged, but feel free to provide a new different code editor
 +
** https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=496114#c7
 +
** Not against adding extension points ... but having the standard text editor adopt those is a no-go
 +
* Dani: Build, and Hackathon
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Oct 14:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
+
'''June 28, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Alex
* Dani '''Nightly Builds''': More builds broken. Need to take more care for the builds.
+
* Discussion about Language Server Protocol
* Martin '''e4 and the AC''': AC wants monthly e4 updates; Question about 4 competing declarative UI technologies
+
** MS sponsoring hackathon in Zurich, Dani expected to go there
** The switch between being in the "incubator" and being the "Eclipse SDK" needs to be "what are we using ourselves"?
+
** The protocol has an Open Source license, but there is no Open Source Governance ... who owns the specification?
** Until we use e4 ourselves to develop, it's going to remain in the incubator. At the time we switch over, there will be one or more winning technologies.
+
** McQ to join AC calls, Martin to remind timely.
+
* Martin '''AC - API Deprecation Policy''' should be published, projects want to follow the Platform lead. '''AI McQ''' write something down
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Oct 7:''' - John, Dani, Martin, Jeff
+
'''June 21, 2016''' -  
* Martin: '''How to run the performance tests'''
+
*  
** John: See [http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.test.performance/doc/Performance%20Tests%20HowTo.html?view=co web doc]
+
** Dani: Frederic working on a tool for displaying results, he's still the man to ask in case of questions.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Sep 30:''' -  
+
'''June 14, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars
 +
* McQ: '''Mattermost / Slack''' for communication
 +
** not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
 +
* Lars: '''Master is Open'''
 +
** Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
 +
** Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
 +
** Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes ({{bug|360703}}) is open to improve that)
 +
** We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
 +
* Lars: '''Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ?''' - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
 +
* McQ: '''Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che''' (from [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ide-dev/ ide-dev] mailing list and {{bug|496114}})
 +
** The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
 +
** The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
 +
*** People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
 +
** The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
 +
** How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
 +
*** At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
 +
*** But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
 +
* Dani: '''What goes into the Neon Update Releases'''
 +
** as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
 +
** '''AI: Dani''' will prepare a note
 +
* Dani: '''Using Sound in Eclipse'''
 +
** Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see {{bug|496003}})
 +
** Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
 +
** Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
 +
** McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so '''that''' should really be leveraged
 +
** Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
 +
** Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
 +
** Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.
  
<hr/>
+
'''June 7, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex
'''Sep 24:''' -  
+
* no topics
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Sep 17:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
'''May 31, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex
* John: '''CQ Process''' - The PMC's +1 is not for reading the code but for verifying that "we want this" on a high level. Bring dubious ones to the PMC as a group.
+
* Dani: '''IP Log'''
* McQ: '''Java 5''' - there are few plugins which may want an earlier Execution Environment, but it makes sense to drop the 1.4 Reference Platforms (need to communicate this to IBM).
+
** The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
* John: '''Component Milestone Plans''' - bring up in the arch call
+
** In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
* Martin: '''AC Representation''' - McQ to lead, John to second
+
* Dani: '''Release Review'''
* Getting ready for M2, signing off for 3.5.1
+
** Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
 +
* Dani: '''Update Jetty to 3.9.3'''
 +
** Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
 +
* Dani: '''RC4 Status Update'''
 +
** Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Sep 10:''' - McQ, John, Jeff
+
'''May 24, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin
* '''Java 5'''
+
* Dani: '''IP Log Generator''' - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
* Jeff: '''Apache Aerius'''
+
* Dani: '''Release Review''' - Deadline next week (June 2)
* '''e4 progress'''
+
* Dani: '''Deprecation Request from Brian'''
 +
** Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
 +
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date'''
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
 +
** Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
 +
** Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
 +
** This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
 +
* Dani: '''Neon Status'''
 +
** Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Sep 3:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
'''May 17, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
* John: '''New 3.6 plan''' - consider removing 1.4 as reference platform, talk to Runtime guys at IBM
+
* Dani: '''{{Bug|475184}} Neon Plan Update 2'''
* Dani: '''Doc Features'''
+
** Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
 +
** SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
 +
*** Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
 +
**** Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
 +
*** Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
 +
** Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
 +
** '''AI Dani''' to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
 +
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date''' - EMO: To be decided per project
 +
** IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
 +
** Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
 +
*** gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
 +
** Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
 +
* Dani: '''Policy for Neon.Update Releases''' - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
 +
** Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
 +
** Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
 +
** Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - '''decision''': discuss feature by feature at PMC
 +
** Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
 +
** In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
 +
* Dani: '''Neon RC2 Builds Update'''
 +
** Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
 +
** Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
 +
** GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
 +
** Lars: {{bug|493477}} detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Aug 26:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff
+
'''May 10, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
* '''New Sat4j version''' - RT PMC decided to take it out again, so not an issue
+
* Dani: '''Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases'''
* '''Separating docs from the code?''' - Dani to post respective bug on the pmc mailing list
+
** Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
* '''e4 status updates''' - Jeff interested in regular e4 updates on the pmc
+
* Martin: '''RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2'''
 +
** GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
 +
*** Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
 +
** Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
 +
*** Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
 +
*** There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
 +
*** Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
 +
** Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
 +
*** Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
 +
*** Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Aug 19:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff, John A
+
'''May 3, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
* '''Pruning inactive committers'''
+
* [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02598.html Brian's request on the PMC list]
** Martin: The EMO [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-project-leadership/msg00000.html recommends removing inactive committers] in order to keep the project vibrant and relevant. Why are there so many non-voters?
+
** McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
*** Dani: Component Granularity - Portal is still broken for JDT UI vs. JDT Core.
+
** Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
*** Martin: Yet there are likely some who really haven't been active for long -- but only component / project lead would know that
+
** Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...  
** McQ: We are not actively searching to prune inactive committers. Committers are good, whether active or not. No interest in doing any work for this, but OK if others do.
+
** McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
*** Jeff: sees some sense in pruning the list, and did so in the past for Equinox
+
** Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
** Rights - what can we actually do in the Portal?
+
** '''ACTION''' McQ to -1 and argue why.
*** Component leads can mark people active who appear inactive on the portal
+
*** Only [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-project-leadership/msg00002.html The Project Lead can decommitterize], and can do so without PMC interaction
+
**** Jeff - it's odd that this is not symmetrical to approving new committers
+
** John: Once a committer is emeritus and decides to come back, can we make the process of re-making them a committer easier?
+
*** Jeff thinks that the normal committer process is good in this case.
+
** '''Consensus:'''
+
*** We do not actively ask to remove inactive committers, but if a component / project lead wants to do so, they are welcome
+
*** The process is to first send E-Mail to the potentially inactive committer and if they agree they are [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/equinox-dev/msg04309.html decommitterized] and optionally turned to [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/equinox-dev/msg04324.html committer emeritus]
+
*** If the E-Mail doesn't work any more they can also be decommitterized immediately.
+
* '''Reference Platforms'''
+
** Going through the process of refreshing reference platform list for Helios
+
** Currently considering: Switch to SLES 11 from SLES 10, add Windows 7, add Ubuntu LTS 9.04, add 64-bit Eclipse for Linux PPC-64 (possibly replacing 32-bit Eclipse for Linux PPC-64)
+
** If you have additional platforms or upgrades to consider, send a note on eclipse-pmc or mention during a PMC call
+
* '''Bugzilla: LATER / REMIND states'''
+
** 4000 bugs affected. Need to discuss in the arch call how to proceed.
+
** Dani Proposal: LATER --&gt; WONTFIX / REMIND --&gt; INVALID / and move back to the inbox since often assignees no longer active
+
  
<hr/>
+
* Alex: '''Update on Accessibility'''
'''Aug 12:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff, John A
+
** broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
* '''Retrospective Actions''' -
+
** due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
** Need to nominate a person to care for performance: Dani to try find somebody from JDT core for a bounded time (6 months or so)
+
** Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
** Build issues
+
*** and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
** Bugzilla performance etc
+
** Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !
* '''Backward compatibility'''
+
** Reporting tool - want a foundation database, that Members can report their API / non-API usage signatures into
+
** Part of the member value-add
+
** KNOWING the impact is the first important thing
+
* '''Forward compatibility''' - from RT / Christian Campo
+
** PDE never tried to ensure that somebody can use 3.4 to launch 3.5
+
** The differences in launching 3.4 vs 3.5 are small... if we would have been aware, we could have made this possible
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Aug 5:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff, John A
+
'''April 26, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ
* '''Security proposal''' on eclipse-pmc list - agree that this should be closer to the target runtimes (wtp, ...)
+
* Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
* '''"Plugin" vs "Bundle"''' - Clarification: Proposal was only about PDE. Global replacement is out of reach.
+
* Alex: '''Accessibility''' - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
** McQ thinks that Plugin is a Bundle that makes use of the Eclipse extension registry (plugin.xml) - Jeff disagrees wrt declarative services
+
** Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
** As a message to end users, does it help us if we talk about "plugins"?
+
** McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
** Is this an internal statement about tooling, or something we should do more globally?
+
* Alex: '''Platform.ui generification of project'''
** Real problem is, that people should perceive PDE as tooling for bundles: Make Eclipse more adoptable in the OSGi community
+
** Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
** "Bundle" and "Plugin" have been used interchangeably for about 5 years... but still, a more pervasive change would require lots of docs changes that may be very painful for consumers
+
** McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
** McQ wants a technical proposal what should be changed
+
** Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
** Perhaps provide a '''separate''' tooling for bundles (with property files replaced)? EPP Package for Bundle Developers? - But a choice is not a good thing...
+
** Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
** '''Jeff suggestion:''' Do PDE 3.6 that is "all bundles" plus add a compatibility bundle that gives you the word "plugin" back.
+
** '''ACTION Alex''' to prepare a message for review and then send that.
* McQ: '''Backward Compatibility''' - consuming new versions of Eclipse is still too hard. IBM makes it the highest priority that '''everything''' that ran on 3.5 also runs on 3.6 - including internals - or the new version may not be consumable!
+
* Lars: '''Copyright discussion'''
** Do anything that may not be easily backwards compatible in the 4.0 stream rather than the 3.x stream.
+
** Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
** Jeff thinks this is going to be a hard sell because internals are made to be internal
+
** The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
** Jeff: API Tooling that allows people to discover use of internals, see also {{bug|261544}}
+
* Dani: '''Update on FEEP'''
 +
** Paul not reached out yet
 +
** A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
 +
* Dani: '''Update on M7'''
 +
** Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
 +
** Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full
  
<hr/>
+
<br/>
'''Jul 29:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John A, Jeff
+
'''April 19, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)
* Dani will start to organize [[Eclipse/Galileo/Retrospective]] items
+
* Dani: '''IP Stuff''' on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
* Too many broken builds recently
+
* Dani: '''FEEP''' discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
* e4 shipping 0.9 this week
+
** General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
* PDE project proposal coming to explore Eclipse build technology
+
** Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
 +
** Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
 +
* Dani: '''All PMC please review and +1 API requests''' when you find time
 +
** McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
 +
* '''Reviews vs. Features'''
 +
** Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora
  
<hr/>
+
<br/>
'''Jul 15:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John A, Jeff
+
'''April 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex
* Dani: What to do with the [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-dev/msg08660.html Galileo Retrospective] items? Which ones should become action items? E.g. Bugzilla Slowness?
+
* Lars: '''Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement'''
** John: Next PC meeting is Aug 3, should have items for the PC ready by then
+
** [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=485257#c13 bug 485257_c13] EMO: All information is in the git repos
** Decision: PMC mailing list conversation, will review retrospective action in Jul 29 PMC meeting.
+
** McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
* McQ to send out a note to formalize John as the PC representation
+
** Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
* McQ wants status messages again for the arch call
+
** '''ACTION''' McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
  
<hr/>
+
* Lars: '''{{bug|490012}} Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE'''
'''Jun 24:''' - McQ, Dani
+
** Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
* Dani asked whether the PMC meeting notes are targeted for the public
+
** Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
** McQ: yes, they got announced on pmc mailing list
+
** Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
* no PMC call next week due to a holiday
+
** '''DECISION''' to get rid of the strict error per project.
  
<hr/>
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|475934}} API Change on model processing order'''
'''Jun 17:''' - McQ, Dani, Jeff, John A, (Martin joined just as we were hanging up)
+
** Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
* Dani asked whether the PMC had internal discussion of new committer votes
+
** McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
** A: Generally the PMC member for the component gives +1, unless they feel the need to bring the discussion to the rest of the PMC
+
** McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
* Jeff mentioned that we should remind the teams to do retrospectives
+
*** Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
 +
*** Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
 +
*** Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
 +
** Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
 +
** '''DECISION''' to allow making the change and announce widely.
  
<hr/>
+
* Dani: '''FEEP and EMO Hiring Update'''
'''Jun 10:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Steve, John A
+
** EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
* Welcome to Dani, John agrees to be here as a listening member for a while
+
** Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
* Sun Java 6u14 (May 25) broken for debugging because thread ID's are changed when garbage collector runs
+
** Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
** Clearly a Sun bug (also happens in jdb) but not yet confirmed by Sun
+
** Described in Readme, but readme will only be available when a rebuild occurs
+
** Dani will send out a note tomorrow when they know more about other platforms
+
  
<hr/>
+
* Dani: '''IDE-dev proposal'''
'''Jun 3:''' - McQ, Martin, Steve, Jeff
+
** People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
* McQ - asking Dani M to join the Eclipse PMC to represent JDT. PMC agrees. McQ will send a note to Mike Milinkovich / EMO.
+
** Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
* McQ - asking John A to represent the Eclipse Project on Planning Council
+
*** McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
** Jeff thinks that the PC rep should be a PMC member in order to have a strong bi-directional communication path.
+
*** OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.
** McQ proposes asking John to join the PMC calls for communication.
+
** Martin agrees provided that John is OK with this delegate role.
+
* Steve {{bug|277713}} critical bug, probably more critical bugs to triage - defer to arch call
+
* Jeff Target Provisioning discussion
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 27:''' - McQ, Martin, Steve
+
'''April 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
* {{bug|277735}} releng.tools copyright tool - Martin would like to see it released. Discuss in Arch call.
+
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
 +
** Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
 +
** Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
 +
** Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
 +
* Dani: '''Solaris 32-bit'''
 +
** Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
 +
** Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
 +
*** Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
 +
** McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
 +
* Dani: '''New Solstice Welcome'''
 +
** Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
 +
** Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
 +
** McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
 +
* Alex: '''FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)'''
 +
** "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
 +
*** Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
 +
*** It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
 +
*** McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
 +
** Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
 +
*** '''AI Dani''' send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
 +
** Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
 +
** Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
 +
*** McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
 +
*** Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
 +
*** McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal '''Transparency''' on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
 +
*** McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
 +
**** Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: '''THIS''' is what the FEEP should have adressed !
 +
** Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
 +
** Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
 +
*** McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
 +
** Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
 +
* Lars '''Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy'''
 +
** Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 20:''' - McQ, Martin
+
'''March 29, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex
* PC Lead: John A suggested to represent Eclipse
+
* Lars: '''PDE Build in Maintenance''' - Officially state this ?
* Linux: New Launchers built, didn't start on Linux ... I-build was broken, want to know why
+
** PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
 +
** Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
 +
** McQ: '''DECISION''' Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
 +
* Lars: '''Integrate more projects into Platform UI?'''
 +
** Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
 +
** Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
 +
** Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
 +
** '''DECISION''' to not merge projects at this time.
 +
* Lars: '''Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list'''
 +
** McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
 +
** Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
 +
** Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. '''AI Dani''' notify mailing list.
 +
* Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
 +
** Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 13:''' - McQ, Martin, Jeff, Steve, Philippe
+
'''March 22, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
* {{bug|273660}} Common Navigator: Pipelining issues with JDT + CDT
+
* Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
 +
* Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
 +
* Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
 +
* Discussion about Che
 +
** McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
 +
** Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
 +
** McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 6:''' - McQ, Martin, Jeff
+
'''March 15, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
* McQ PDE Feature Request
+
* Dani: '''Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)'''
** New Target Platform came in late
+
* Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
** PMC agrees with trying to fix this, but want to see the final patch before +1
+
* McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
* McQ Testplan
+
* Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
** People going to test their own because test plan is too complex
+
* Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
* Jeff Splash Screen
+
** Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
 +
** Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
 +
** Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
 +
* VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
 +
** Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
 +
** Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)
  
 +
'''March 8, 2016''' - No call
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Apr 29:''' - McQ, Martin, Steve
+
'''March 1, 2016''' - Dani, Martin
* Martin: Java6 ref platform - anything between 6u3 and 6u10 (exclusive) was broken, anything after 6u10 (inclusive) has license issues in [http://java.sun.com/javase/6/javase-6-thirdpartyreadme.txt thirdpartylicensereadme.txt].
+
* Dani OOO next week
** Suggestion: Dont update the plan document yet, but start running tests with 6u13 on Linux. '''AI McQ''' talk to Kim about this.
+
* Alex: '''{{bug|179924}} SSH-agent authentication''' 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
** '''AI Martin''' make a final attempt to get more info out of Sun.
+
** Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
* Steve: Solaris x86 - looks good but some problems with X server
+
** Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
* McQ: API Deprecation Policy {{bug|261544}} - '''AI McQ''' synthesise some summary and comment on the bug
+
* EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.
* M7: Testers found some interesting prolbems with launching Eclipse from Eclipse (depending on VM, BIDI chars in paths dont work)
+
  
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''February 23, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''Mars.2 is on track'''
 +
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
 +
** EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
 +
* Dani: '''Update on Welcome'''
 +
** Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
 +
* McQ: '''Scrollbars on Windows''' and their appearance
 +
** Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
 +
** Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
 +
** McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
 +
** Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
 +
** Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
 +
** Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Apr 22:''' - McQ, Martin, Steve, Philippe
 
* Steve: Solaris x86 - got a Browser running, looking good,
 
* Steve: Cocoa Sheets - new API - Dialogs associated with a Window: Dialog slides down from title bar
 
** Clients need to opt in through new API because they need to specify a dialog as being adequate for sheet support
 
* Martin: Maintenance builds post SR2
 
** experience in the past has shown only very few, surgically isolated patches so the problem is probably smaller than anticipated
 
** don't want anything produced to appear official -- anything that appears official MUST result in a test pass and this must be avoided
 
** it makes sense to talk about this in the context of "Release Train" and not only "Eclipse Platform" -- Martin filed {{bug|273262}} against the AC
 
* Martin has some update on Sun Java 6 -- will update {{bug|261724}}
 
  
 +
'''February 16, 2016''' - Alex, Dani, Martin
 +
* no topics
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Apr 15:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, Steve
 
* McQ: '''Solaris x86''' - OK if we get the machine up and running until Friday, too late for swapping reference platform otherways
 
* '''Polish List''' [[Polish3.5]] - Some developers don't have time for polish items. For now, it's just a list such that we *know* what's coming up.
 
** Martin wondering why we need a separate wiki page, bugzilla query should be enough?
 
** Who owns the Polish list - Eclipse Project Committers. We capture items that we find "stupid" when using Eclipse ourselves.
 
* '''Maintenance builds after 3.4'''
 
** IBM will never consume any community builds: want the absolute minimum of required fixes
 
** If a fix shows up in any IBM product, then it is on a bug somewhere
 
** But fixes are never cumulative
 
** Martin thinks that a first step would be well-defined markup of such "released-to-product" fixes.
 
** Another next step is allowing Eclipse builds by the Community -- we can do anything that's not making Kim's life harder.
 
** How to proceed with communications: open bugs, bugzilla discussions.
 
  
 +
'''February 9, 2016''' - Alex, McQ, Dani
 +
* Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
 +
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|466370}} Welcome Screen redesign
 +
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|472614}} Smart Project Importer
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Apr 1:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, Steve, Philippe
 
* McQ: Solaris x86 (recommend building since Sun helped at Eclipsecon), Perf results (not trustworthy on Windows?)
 
* Martin: M-builds beyond 3.4.2
 
** Two problems: (a) provide a build system that the community can use, and (b) provide a platform for accumulating fixes easily without risking version collisions etc
 
*** The risk of (b) is high that as a result we'd have some low-quality sea of incompatible fixes. We better don't go with this.
 
** Other solution is allow to cherry-pick on source level - just provide a new target milestone in bugzilla, product builders cherry-pick patches they want to apply and do so locally.
 
* Jeff: OSGi tooling; future plans around build
 
** We need to run builds ourselves (see also above) - e.g. equinox sdk feature is in some internal repository
 
** PDE build has stretched pretty far over time.. what to do with it
 
*** Needs to be one of the main plan items for 3.6, but don't want to wait that long
 
*** SAP perhaps to help out with staffing
 
* Boris to host the arch call since Steve, McQ, Philippe all cannot join
 
  
 +
'''February 2, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
 +
* Dani: '''Foundation Hires''' - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
 +
* Dani: '''Neon M5''' went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
 +
* Dani: '''CQ Deadline''' on Feb.12 for Neon
 +
* Dani: {{bug|486647}} for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
 +
** With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
 +
** Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
 +
*** Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
 +
*** We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
 +
*** Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
 +
** Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Mar 18:''' - McQ, Steve, Martin
+
'''January 26, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars
* no arch next week due to EclipseCon
+
* Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
* McQ found a performance test that is 8000% slower
+
* Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
** teams are overwhelmed (but remind them to check performance tests)
+
* Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track
* Martin reminded us about use of [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg00575.html Parallel IP for Mature Projects] and JSch-0.1.41
+
** need to identify uses on the download links (or also inside the downloads?)
+
** EMO has not developed the policy yet
+
** McQ: "Q: Should we just not use the mechanism?"
+
** Downstream consumers may need to test against new lib features early. Just for test and experimentation, not for consumption: want parallel IP in I-builds
+
** McQ: Milestones are a corner case -- some consumers use these in products!
+
** Parallel IP is a tool for projects who want it. A clear policy is one thing. Guidelines for projects to adopt it or not is another thing -- may depend on the number and kind of consumers.
+
** Result: Martin to Bring up that topic on the [[Architecture Council/Meetings/March 22 F2F EclipseCon 2009]],
+
*** Example issues: can't put it in for I-build and remove for Milestone S-build
+
  
<hr />
+
<hr/>
 
+
'''January 19, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
'''Mar 11:''' - McQ, Steve, Jeff, Martin
+
* Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
* Martin - '''{{bug|227055}} and late API additions'''
+
* Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
** McQ: after m6 is too late if it has any downstream impact (changing behavior, deleting things, ...). Plain API additions may slip a week.
+
** Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
** Steve: If new API has effect on performance and polish, may look more favorably.
+
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''PDE Build''' - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
** If going in after M6, it needs to go through the process (e-mail and public discussion on eclipse-pmc list).
+
** Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement '''in the Platform'''
** Strict API Tooling checks to be enabled next week
+
** Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
* McQ - '''state of M6'''; some late UI things to review
+
** Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
** Some low-risk polish Cocoa items for Eclipsecon (enablers)
+
** Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
** Still changes in p2 (after m6), but stabilizing
+
* Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
* Martin/Jeff - '''New Target Platform Page''' may require more tweaking - risk of breaking community workflows!
+
** Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
** E.g. adding a directory to the target platform; Jeff uses target platforms a lot, so he's likely more exposed than most of the Community... 10 to 15 locations with hundreds of bundles...
+
* SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
** Related to the {{bug|224145}} p2 "extension location" problem which broke user workflows. Don't want to have such breakage again.
+
* Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
* Jeff - '''Status on Galileo Must do's''' - deferred to next week
+
** Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
* McQ - '''p2 OSGi OBR Repositories'''
+
* Martin: '''Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?'''
** Jeff: OSGi wants to foster bundle store / bundle repositories, and specify a repository standard (long-standing RFE112 never been ratified)
+
** Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
** Similar to p2, but does have some potential issues
+
** Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
** Ideally, Equinox would be the reference impl of whatever standard comes up... but got a staffing problem, how to get the solution standardized that we need.
+
*** Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
*** Writing a p2 OBR repository adapter is not hard, but OBR repos won't be able to eat p2 metadata
+
** Debian or SuSE should be OK;
** p2 doesn't care about XML format whereas OBR specifies the XML. p2 got more sophisticated API model. Jeff doesn't have access to the latest spec.
+
** Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2
* Steve wants Eclipsecon demos to be done on '''Cocoa''', will expedite any bugfixes (please do file them!). Jeff needs browser integration.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 
+
'''January 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
'''Mar 4:''' - McQ, Steve, Jeff, Philippe, Martin
+
* Dani: '''Upstaffing the PMC'''
 
+
** Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
* Upgrade 3.4 -> 3.5
+
* Dani: '''Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng''' - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
** Will we be able to support this in p2?
+
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''Remove PDE Build from our drops?'''
*** Nope, needed hooks already in previous release (ie. needed them in 3.4 to be used by 3.5)
+
** Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
** Problems include replacing the Eclipse .exe
+
** McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
** Is this an important use case?  There is no band width to solve this problem in 3.5
+
** Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
** it's a good showcase for p2 technology
+
* Dani: {{bug|485257}} '''Copyright Policy Change''' - waiting on EMO/Legal input
** idea: put in the low level hooks for 3.5.1 and use them next time (ie. 3.5 -> 3.6)
+
* Alex: '''Updating SWT to Java7'''
** Did Update Manager ever do this?
+
* McQ: '''Travel for EclipseCon'''
*** Jeff: It does not
+
 
+
* Deprecating Mac carbon?
+
** Apple claims Cocoa is the future
+
** 3.5 will be the last version of Eclipse where Carbon is under active development
+
*** But will maintain for 3.6 and 3.7
+
** Q: Has Apple officially deprecated carbon?
+
*** No but they have down played it (ie. no 64-bit support for carbon)
+
** Should there be an official deprecation policy for platforms?
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 
+
'''January 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani
'''Feb 25:''' - McQ, Steve, Martin, Philippe
+
* Dani: '''PMC Membership'''
 
+
* AC "committers should know" mail
+
** '''Following external links''' McQ why not introduce some Javascript on the server that warns users automatically when they follow an external link?
+
** Components to projects flattening (not on our plate at the time)
+
* Steve Target milestones for Eclipse project
+
* BZ patches to be flagged when they contain API
+
* '''N-builds broken''' over the weekend (again) - 3 weekends in a row - no people currently who are willing to work during the weekend
+
** Hudson might help eventually, for now using e4 builds as the guinea pig
+
* '''UI Forms has no committers''' - opportunity for Community to become committer
+
** migrate off (using internal browser instead)
+
** no critical bugs, less than 125 interesting bugs
+
** long-term future is e4 with css/styling and declarative ui
+
* '''Performance:''' No news (not yet while closing down API)
+
** Philippe thinks that the performance milestone must be earlier since performance might touch on API. We're losing memory because rebasing
+
** McQ - this cycle we had a performance run in M2, this year we're in a better position than last year
+
 
+
'''Feb 18:''' -  no meeting
+
 
+
'''Feb 11:'''
+
 
+
'''Feb 4:'''
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
'''Jan 28:'''
+
= Archive =
 
+
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2015 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2015]]
* Java 6
+
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
** move reference platform to Sun 6u11
+
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
*** problem(?): Sun added 3 new items added that are licensed LGPL or GPL
+
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
*** [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] Martin added comment to {{bug|261724}} to identify this issue
+
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
* ICU 4.0
+
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
** we will stay with 4.0
+
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
* Deprecation Policy
+
** still under discussion, {{bug|261544}}
+
* Use of internal provisional
+
** seems to be some consensus about *not* requiring this, {{bug|261874}}
+
* JDT co-leadership
+
** what is the process?
+
*** Jeff: vote in community; then propose to the PMC
+
*** Would like to get Dani Meghert involved.
+
*** Philippe will check development process documents
+
* Cocoa port
+
** Looking good
+
** Taking early access off and making it the "first" choice for Mac downloads
+
* Milestone progress / 3.4.2
+
** Need to discuss M5 in arch call (should have done this last week)
+
** Should always remind the team in the arch call of upcoming deadlines
+
** Performance issues that need API to fix have to happen by M6
+
*** Teams should understand performance results (will be discussed in a couple of weeks)
+
* Re: Reference Platforms
+
** Java6 on Solaris
+
*** Martin's company would like to support this
+
*** [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] filed {{bug|262907}} to discuss process and practices around reference platforms
+
 
+
'''Jan 21:'''
+
 
+
* How should we track meeting minutes topic - Wiki
+
* Provisional API conventions - Jeff working on {{bug|261874}} for discussion at the AC
+
** should there be a tag in the Javadoc (ie. "experimental")?
+
** Jeff wants to keep the concerns "conventions" vs "Javadoc" separate
+
** Jeff, "... Javadoc should not be generated for provisional ..."
+
** Martin disagrees, "... need feedback and discussion for new API ..."
+
* What is the '''role of the PMC lead?'''
+
** global view of components/processes
+
** organize architecture call, ensure we are on track
+
** spark conversations (ie. M5 is feature freeze)
+
* '''Reference platforms'''
+
** we should choose JDK1.6, "update 11" rather than "update 4"
+
** around "RC time", solidify the reference platform (it is the one we are testing on)
+
 
+
'''Jan 14:'''
+
 
+
* PMC component ownership x bugzilla pmc authorization
+

Revision as of 11:21, 20 September 2016

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

Sep 20, 20160 - Martin, McQ, Dani, Lars, Alex

  • Resources Leadership - AI Dani reach out to Szymon
  • PMC upstaffing: Focus on large installs; UI Freeze monitor, code cleanup, solid solutions, focus on code reviews
  • Dani: Java 9 Moved to July 2017 - AI Dani talk to the Planning Council, proposing an "Update 1" in July
    • Better for consumers, available via "just update", though little bit extra work (CQ + Release Review)
    • Schedule looks still aggressive when looking at specifications; need to keep the team motivated
  • Dani: SelectionListener SWT Change - reverted for M2 since more clients were affected than expected
    • Proposed change turned out to be source-incompatible - will look at a different approach

Sep 13, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Lars

  • Upstaffing the PMC
  • Build failures due to an SWT Change

Sep 6, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Thanks for approving Noopur
  • Dani: Java Language Server Proposal - at the Foundation, will be called "JDT Language Server"
  • Dani: RC4 - Fix for an Equinox p2 issue, only known issue being fixed, looking good
  • Dani: Looking at the generic code editor, would prefer moving some things to M3 (talking to Sopot and Mickael)
  • LTS: Market for paid fixes on old versions not quite as good as expected
  • Release Reviews: When is a feature considered an "important feature" ?
    • Important Features require a full release review thus lots of effort, avoided for Neon.1
    • AI Dani discuss in Planning Council call tomorrow

Aug 30, 2016 - No topics

Aug 23, 2016 - No topics


Aug 16, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Lars

  • Dani will not always be available next two weeks (Eclipse Summit India and IBM Bangalore team visit)
    • Please split the load on +1'ing backport/API requests - please do review the code and set the pmc+1 flag
  • Dani: bug 498106 Oxygen Plan
    • Agreed by all so far, including removal of REL6 as a reference platform
    • Individual subproject Wikis look pretty consistent now
    • UNIX Platforms (Solaris,AIX,HP-UX) have been removed for M1
      • PPC-Linux Releng was also removed but accidentally (due to a hardware failure), will be restored for M2.
    • No consensus on Ubuntu yet - will keep 14.04 in for now, consider taking out on the next update
  • Dani: bug 499164 Version Numbering for Neon.1
    • The original "+5" or "+10" proposal showed some issues:
    • Update with skipping would propagate to features; no tooling; no real benefit of semantic versioning
    • AGREEMENT to keeping using the status quo for now ("allow small updates even with micro uprev only")
  • Lars: p2 pending patches
    • AI Dani send E-Mail to Tom - suggest reviews or merger p2 back to Platform
  • Dani: bug 499399 Eclipse Infrastructure Stability
    • Denis is looking at it - maybe too many requests coming in ?
  • Lars: e4 spy and wizard migration to PDE
    • Dani: Are wizards e4 specific, or could they be used with JFace ?
    • New SWT Layout Spy should go to SWT, rather then keeping in PDE's Build
    • Some spies usable also in RCP Apps - for example the e4 model spy - 6 independent projects, dependency on emf.edit
      • Looks like a big extension to PDE -- consider some consolidation and cleanup (tests, String externalization, ...)
      • AI Lars to check if contributors would be willing to clean up as discussed, then moving into pde.ui would be fine.

Aug 09, 2016 - Dani

  • no one joined - had private conversation with McQ later
    • guys, please announce when you can't join. I can make better use of my time than waiting for you in the call ;-) - thanks.

Aug 02, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: New Oxygen Plan Format
    • AI Dani ask Denis about aggregating the Sub Wiki's into the master page
  • Alex: SWT Fragments for ARM64 etc
    • Tycho doesn't support auto-selecting fragments - in contact with Jan and Tobias
    • Dani: Would like to revert changes - don't want to punish people who are not interested in fragments
    • Not really an SWT problem, so editing .target files would be a clean solution
    • Will probably go with empty (dummy) fragments without natives, as that's the simplest solution
  • Dani: SWT team - Lakshmi going to Sweden, will not be available until end 2016
    • Arun is mostly back, Sravan is now on Releng
    • Need to push further on building at the Foundation!!
    • Alex: Getting CentOS for building ... but test machines are on SLES11, which is too old, will need at least SLES12
      • Dani: Will need an owner at the Eclipse Foundation to ensure this proceeds ! Alex agreed to further drive this.
  • Target Env: Dropping REL6 -- reference platform for testing will only be REL7 (though will continue to run on REL6)
    • Reducing support level this year, in order to prepare for only supporting GTK3 next year

July 26, 2016 - no meeting

July 19, 2016 - no meeting


July 12, 2016 - McQ, Lars, Alex

  • Dani: Hackathon summary

July 5, 2016 - Lars, McQ, Alex, Dani, Martin

  • Lars: SWT move to Java 8
  • Alex: Initial builds of GTK 2.24 for AIX - planning to bump minimum GTK version to 2.24
    • Will remove non-cairo drawing, this is where most of the breakage happens
    • Ubuntu 12.04: 2.24.10 / 3.4.5
    • RHEL 6: 2.24.23-6
    • AIX, HP-UX, Solaris ? -- Oxygen will only focus on Linux, Windows, Mac
    • Secondary Platforms: Not built on EF Hardware, but interested parties can contribute binaries
    • Trying to support Platforms which can't move up to modern GTK at a similar pace as Linux is hard
    • AI Alex write up a message to the Community
  • Lars: bug 486961 extending the Eclipse Text Editor
  • Dani: Build, and Hackathon

June 28, 2016 - McQ, Martin, Alex

  • Discussion about Language Server Protocol
    • MS sponsoring hackathon in Zurich, Dani expected to go there
    • The protocol has an Open Source license, but there is no Open Source Governance ... who owns the specification?

June 21, 2016 -


June 14, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars

  • McQ: Mattermost / Slack for communication
    • not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
  • Lars: Master is Open
    • Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
    • Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
    • Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes (bug 360703) is open to improve that)
    • We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
  • Lars: Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ? - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
  • McQ: Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che (from ide-dev mailing list and bug 496114)
    • The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
    • The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
      • People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
    • The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
    • How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
      • At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
      • But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
  • Dani: What goes into the Neon Update Releases
    • as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
    • AI: Dani will prepare a note
  • Dani: Using Sound in Eclipse
    • Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see bug 496003)
    • Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
    • Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
    • McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so that should really be leveraged
    • Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
    • Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
    • Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.

June 7, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Alex

  • no topics

May 31, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: IP Log
    • The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
    • In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
  • Dani: Release Review
    • Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
  • Dani: Update Jetty to 3.9.3
    • Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
  • Dani: RC4 Status Update
    • Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command

May 24, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Martin

  • Dani: IP Log Generator - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
  • Dani: Release Review - Deadline next week (June 2)
  • Dani: Deprecation Request from Brian
    • Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
  • Dani: Copyright End Date
    • AGREEMENT to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
    • Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
    • Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
    • This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
  • Dani: Neon Status
    • Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time

May 17, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: bug 475184 Neon Plan Update 2
    • Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
    • SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
      • Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
        • Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
      • Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
    • Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
    • AI Dani to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
  • Dani: Copyright End Date - EMO: To be decided per project
    • IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
    • Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
      • gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
    • Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
  • Dani: Policy for Neon.Update Releases - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
    • Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
    • Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
    • Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - decision: discuss feature by feature at PMC
    • Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
    • In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
  • Dani: Neon RC2 Builds Update
    • Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
    • Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
    • GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
    • Lars: bug 493477 detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC

May 10, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Dani: Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases
    • Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
  • Martin: RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2
    • GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
      • Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
    • Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
      • Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
      • There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
      • Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
    • Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
      • Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
      • Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)

May 3, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Brian's request on the PMC list
    • McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
    • Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
    • Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...
    • McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
    • Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
    • ACTION McQ to -1 and argue why.
  • Alex: Update on Accessibility
    • broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
    • due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
    • Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
      • and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
    • Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !

April 26, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
  • Alex: Accessibility - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
    • Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
    • McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
  • Alex: Platform.ui generification of project
    • Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
    • McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
    • Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
    • Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
    • ACTION Alex to prepare a message for review and then send that.
  • Lars: Copyright discussion
    • Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
    • The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
  • Dani: Update on FEEP
    • Paul not reached out yet
    • A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
  • Dani: Update on M7
    • Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
    • Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full


April 19, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)

  • Dani: IP Stuff on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
  • Dani: FEEP discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
    • General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
    • Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
    • Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
  • Dani: All PMC please review and +1 API requests when you find time
    • McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
    • AGREEMENT on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
  • Reviews vs. Features
    • Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora


April 12, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex

  • Lars: Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement
    • bug 485257_c13 EMO: All information is in the git repos
    • McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
    • Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
    • ACTION McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
  • Lars: bug 490012 Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE
    • Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
    • Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
    • Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
    • DECISION to get rid of the strict error per project.
  • Dani: bug 475934 API Change on model processing order
    • Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
    • McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
    • McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
      • Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
      • Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
      • Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
    • Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
    • DECISION to allow making the change and announce widely.
  • Dani: FEEP and EMO Hiring Update
    • EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
    • Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
    • Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
  • Dani: IDE-dev proposal
    • People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
    • Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
      • McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
      • OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.

April 5, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: FEEP Update
    • Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
    • Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
    • Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
  • Dani: Solaris 32-bit
    • Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
    • Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
      • Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
    • McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
  • Dani: New Solstice Welcome
    • Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
    • Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
    • McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
  • Alex: FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)
    • "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
      • Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
      • It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
      • McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
    • Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
      • AI Dani send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
      • AI Martin compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
    • Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
    • Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
      • McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
      • Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
      • McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal Transparency on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
      • McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
        • Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: THIS is what the FEEP should have adressed !
    • Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
    • Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
      • McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
    • Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
  • Lars Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy
    • Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).

March 29, 2016 - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex

  • Lars: PDE Build in Maintenance - Officially state this ?
    • PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
    • Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
    • McQ: DECISION Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
  • Lars: Integrate more projects into Platform UI?
    • Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
    • Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
    • Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
    • DECISION to not merge projects at this time.
  • Lars: Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list
    • McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
    • Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
    • Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. AI Dani notify mailing list.
  • Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
    • Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"

March 22, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
  • Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
  • Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
  • Discussion about Che
    • McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
    • Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
    • McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?

March 15, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)
  • Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
  • McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
  • Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
  • Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
    • Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
    • Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
    • Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
  • VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
    • Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
    • Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)

March 8, 2016 - No call


March 1, 2016 - Dani, Martin

  • Dani OOO next week
  • Alex: bug 179924 SSH-agent authentication 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
    • Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
    • Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
  • EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.

February 23, 2016 - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex

  • Dani: Mars.2 is on track
  • Dani: FEEP Update
    • EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
  • Dani: Update on Welcome
    • Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
  • McQ: Scrollbars on Windows and their appearance
    • Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
    • Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
    • McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
    • Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
    • Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
    • Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).

February 16, 2016 - Alex, Dani, Martin

  • no topics

February 9, 2016 - Alex, McQ, Dani

  • Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
  • Dani: please take a look at bug 466370 Welcome Screen redesign
  • Dani: please take a look at bug 472614 Smart Project Importer

February 2, 2016 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Dani: Foundation Hires - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
  • Dani: Neon M5 went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
  • Dani: CQ Deadline on Feb.12 for Neon
  • Dani: bug 486647 for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
    • With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
    • Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
      • Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
      • We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
      • Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
    • Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default

January 26, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
  • Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
  • Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track

January 19, 2016 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
  • Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
    • Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
  • Dani: bug 485429 PDE Build - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
    • Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement in the Platform
    • Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
    • Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
    • Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
  • Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
    • Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
  • SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
  • Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
    • Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
  • Martin: Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?
    • Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
    • Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
      • Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
    • Debian or SuSE should be OK;
    • Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2

January 12, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Upstaffing the PMC
    • Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
  • Dani: Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
  • Dani: bug 485429 Remove PDE Build from our drops?
    • Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
    • McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
    • Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
  • Dani: bug 485257 Copyright Policy Change - waiting on EMO/Legal input
  • Alex: Updating SWT to Java7
  • McQ: Travel for EclipseCon

January 5, 2016 - McQ, Dani

  • Dani: PMC Membership

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