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= Documents =
 +
 +
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 +
 +
* [[E4/Graduation_4.0]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Unix Groups]]
 +
 
= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
−
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
  
−
'''Jan 27, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
'''June 28, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Alex
−
* Dani: Markus Keller taking over JDT UI
+
* Discussion about Language Server Protocol
−
* John: M6 Splashscreen for Eclipsecon: {{bug|297355}}
+
** MS sponsoring hackathon in Zurich, Dani expected to go there
−
* McQ: Removing Builds - SWT needs Linux-Motif, so only WPF about to be removed
+
** The protocol has an Open Source license, but there is no Open Source Governance ... who owns the specification?
−
** In discussions with Microsoft, it turned out that WPF is not required to get full Windows 7 experience under Win32
+
−
** XAML for styling was meant to be a cool idea but never got flying
+
−
** Socialize people with this -- find whether people are inerested in contributing on this, if yes then we should support them
+
−
* Still working the IBM approval process for travelling to Eclipsecon
+
−
* Avoid merging major feature work after a milestone's Tuesday test pass
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 20, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
'''June 21, 2016''' -  
−
* McQ: Contacted Steve N, still interested but unlikely to get more energy for investing into Eclipse
+
*  
−
* John: 3.5.2 test pass tomorrow, but yesterday's I-build been a mess
+
−
* McQ: Message about supporting Open JDK in a blog ... status should be "nice that it works but it's not a reference platform"
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 13, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
'''June 14, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars
−
* McQ: U Manitoba students to help with technical communication (documentation, website, ...) for e4
+
* McQ: '''Mattermost / Slack''' for communication
−
* Dani: New way of contributing Capabilities for Helios... are we OK? - John: yes, Platform Capabilities are in the SDK feature
+
** not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
−
** FYI: Incubating projects are
+
* Lars: '''Master is Open'''
−
* Martin: Documenting the Platforms we routinely test on
+
** Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
−
** Unittest / Perftest machines are know. When John updated the Reference Platform doc, he made sure that he knows at least one committer on each platform
+
** Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
−
** A poll to know what Platform(s) are actively used (by committers) on milestone granularity would be very helpful - John going to set that up
+
** Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes ({{bug|360703}}) is open to improve that)
 +
** We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
 +
* Lars: '''Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ?''' - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
 +
* McQ: '''Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che''' (from [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ide-dev/ ide-dev] mailing list and {{bug|496114}})
 +
** The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
 +
** The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
 +
*** People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
 +
** The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
 +
** How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
 +
*** At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
 +
*** But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
 +
* Dani: '''What goes into the Neon Update Releases'''
 +
** as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
 +
** '''AI: Dani''' will prepare a note
 +
* Dani: '''Using Sound in Eclipse'''
 +
** Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see {{bug|496003}})
 +
** Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
 +
** Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
 +
** McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so '''that''' should really be leveraged
 +
** Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
 +
** Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
 +
** Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.
 +
 
 +
'''June 7, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex
 +
* no topics
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 6, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Jeff
+
'''May 31, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex
−
* Agreed on 3.5.2 [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/freeze_plan_3_5_2.php freeze plan]
+
* Dani: '''IP Log'''
−
** Note RC2 is a week earlier to avoid colliding with Helios M5 week
+
** The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
−
* Discussed Helios plan updates 2 {{bug|298200}}
+
** In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
−
** Update Java 7 plan item to indicate only working on publicly available bits. Some progress made on getting access to specs but going slowly.
+
* Dani: '''Release Review'''
−
** Update reference JRE's to latest version of each JRE
+
** Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
−
* Jeff will be away for next six weeks (vacation)
+
* Dani: '''Update Jetty to 3.9.3'''
−
* McQ to contact Steve to see if he still wishes to remain on PMC
+
** Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
 +
* Dani: '''RC4 Status Update'''
 +
** Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Dec 9:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
'''May 24, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin
−
* Agree on the [[Eclipse/API Central/Deprecation Policy]]
+
* Dani: '''IP Log Generator''' - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
 +
* Dani: '''Release Review''' - Deadline next week (June 2)
 +
* Dani: '''Deprecation Request from Brian'''
 +
** Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
 +
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date'''
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
 +
** Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
 +
** Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
 +
** This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
 +
* Dani: '''Neon Status'''
 +
** Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Dec 2:''' - John, Dani, McQ
+
'''May 17, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
−
* Some discussion about getting good talk coverage at EclipseCon
+
* Dani: '''{{Bug|475184}} Neon Plan Update 2'''
−
* Need to revisit API deprecation policy when we have enough attendees
+
** Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
 +
** SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
 +
*** Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
 +
**** Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
 +
*** Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
 +
** Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
 +
** '''AI Dani''' to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
 +
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date''' - EMO: To be decided per project
 +
** IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
 +
** Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
 +
*** gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
 +
** Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
 +
* Dani: '''Policy for Neon.Update Releases''' - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
 +
** Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
 +
** Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
 +
** Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - '''decision''': discuss feature by feature at PMC
 +
** Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
 +
** In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
 +
* Dani: '''Neon RC2 Builds Update'''
 +
** Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
 +
** Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
 +
** GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
 +
** Lars: {{bug|493477}} detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Nov 25:''' - John, Dani, McQ
+
'''May 10, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
−
* No interesting discussion due to lack of attendees
+
* Dani: '''Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases'''
 +
** Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
 +
* Martin: '''RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2'''
 +
** GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
 +
*** Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
 +
** Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
 +
*** Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
 +
*** There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
 +
*** Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
 +
** Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
 +
*** Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
 +
*** Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Nov 18:''' - John, Martin, Dani
+
'''May 3, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
−
* John: Deadlocks / errors during JDT and CVS tests - deadlocks should be fixed, not sure about other failures.
+
* [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02598.html Brian's request on the PMC list]
 +
** McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
 +
** Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
 +
** Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...
 +
** McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
 +
** Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
 +
** '''ACTION''' McQ to -1 and argue why.
 +
 
 +
* Alex: '''Update on Accessibility'''
 +
** broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
 +
** due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
 +
** Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
 +
*** and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
 +
** Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Nov 11:''' - Dani, Martin, John, Jeff
+
'''April 26, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ
−
* Nothing to discuss.
+
* Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
 +
* Alex: '''Accessibility''' - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
 +
** Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
 +
** McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
 +
* Alex: '''Platform.ui generification of project'''
 +
** Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
 +
** McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
 +
** Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
 +
** Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
 +
** '''ACTION Alex''' to prepare a message for review and then send that.
 +
* Lars: '''Copyright discussion'''
 +
** Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
 +
** The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
 +
* Dani: '''Update on FEEP'''
 +
** Paul not reached out yet
 +
** A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
 +
* Dani: '''Update on M7'''
 +
** Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
 +
** Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full
 +
 
 +
<br/>
 +
'''April 19, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)
 +
* Dani: '''IP Stuff''' on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
 +
* Dani: '''FEEP''' discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
 +
** General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
 +
** Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
 +
** Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
 +
* Dani: '''All PMC please review and +1 API requests''' when you find time
 +
** McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
 +
* '''Reviews vs. Features'''
 +
** Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora
 +
 
 +
<br/>
 +
'''April 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex
 +
* Lars: '''Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement'''
 +
** [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=485257#c13 bug 485257_c13] EMO: All information is in the git repos
 +
** McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
 +
** Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
 +
** '''ACTION''' McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
 +
 
 +
* Lars: '''{{bug|490012}} Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE'''
 +
** Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
 +
** Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
 +
** Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
 +
** '''DECISION''' to get rid of the strict error per project.
 +
 
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|475934}} API Change on model processing order'''
 +
** Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
 +
** McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
 +
** McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
 +
*** Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
 +
*** Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
 +
*** Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
 +
** Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
 +
** '''DECISION''' to allow making the change and announce widely.
 +
 
 +
* Dani: '''FEEP and EMO Hiring Update'''
 +
** EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
 +
** Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
 +
** Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
 +
 
 +
* Dani: '''IDE-dev proposal'''
 +
** People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
 +
** Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
 +
*** McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
 +
*** OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Nov 4:''' - Dani, Martin
+
'''April 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
−
* Discussed speeding up builds along the lines of {{bug|293830}}.
+
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
 +
** Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
 +
** Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
 +
** Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
 +
* Dani: '''Solaris 32-bit'''
 +
** Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
 +
** Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
 +
*** Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
 +
** McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
 +
* Dani: '''New Solstice Welcome'''
 +
** Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
 +
** Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
 +
** McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
 +
* Alex: '''FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)'''
 +
** "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
 +
*** Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
 +
*** It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
 +
*** McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
 +
** Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
 +
*** '''AI Dani''' send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
 +
** Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
 +
** Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
 +
*** McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
 +
*** Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
 +
*** McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal '''Transparency''' on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
 +
*** McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
 +
**** Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: '''THIS''' is what the FEEP should have adressed !
 +
** Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
 +
** Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
 +
*** McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
 +
** Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
 +
* Lars '''Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy'''
 +
** Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Oct 28:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
'''March 29, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex
−
* McQ - vacation for 2 weeks: Dani to do the calls, John to do the status messages
+
* Lars: '''PDE Build in Maintenance''' - Officially state this ?
−
* McQ, Dani - IntelliJ gone open source; but not making the J2EE part open source; GUI designer and XML tooling is open source; JUnit and TestNG integration; svn integration out of the box
+
** PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
−
** Seems to be a very liberal license - pulling in the UI designer into the Eclipse world might be an option
+
** Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
−
** We need more information
+
** McQ: '''DECISION''' Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
−
** '''Pre-integration''' of stuff: Could we have a "Get more stuff into Eclipse" menu item that auomatically grabs the popular stuff, rather than offering the more complex repo choices we have today
+
* Lars: '''Integrate more projects into Platform UI?'''
−
*** Or, lazy loading: E.g. click on a docs stub, open a dialog to install the docs
+
** Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
−
*** Address the casual end users like "Hey I just want to edit some XML"
+
** Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
−
** Martin: This is the "product" vs "framework" discussion which has come up before
+
** Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
−
** McQ: perhaps it is just a question of level of indirection?
+
** '''DECISION''' to not merge projects at this time.
−
** Martin: Yes but who is going to actually put resources on that?
+
* Lars: '''Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list'''
−
** McQ: must have a solution in the base (the Platform)
+
** McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
−
** Martin: That would be great, then we can approach the AC with a much stronger background
+
** Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
−
** McQ: want to be competitive. Will know more about resourcing by Nov 16.
+
** Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. '''AI Dani''' notify mailing list.
−
** John: Already have a plan for some groundwork for this in 3.6. Some Mylyn solution exists on top of p2.
+
* Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
−
** '''AI Martin''' put the item on the AC agenda
+
** Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"
−
* Martin - Follow up on Oct 14 McQ '''Official Eclipse Platform Deprecation Policy'''
+
−
** John - Concerned about putting semantics on "Marketing numbers" for the releases. Focus on the time ("2 years") rather than releases.
+
−
** John - What about upstream projects? E.g. ECF had a major release
+
−
*** McQ - cannot make decisions for other projects. If I can only move when everyone else moves, we get a deadlock. Would like to only commit to version ranges that are re-exported
+
−
** '''AI''' continue discussion on the mailing list
+
  
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''March 22, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
 +
* Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
 +
* Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
 +
* Discussion about Che
 +
** McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
 +
** Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
 +
** McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Oct 21:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Jeff
+
'''March 15, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* McQ - '''backward compatibility''': struggling more with maintaining backward compatibility than hoped
+
* Dani: '''Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)'''
−
** 12000 references to "internal" in IBM products (RAD) according to API - mostly due to verbatim copies of Platform code, will need better API tooling to get rid of these false positives -- e.g. by grouping together by "copied package"
+
* Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
−
** IBM may need to keep the shape of internals alive when refactoring code
+
* McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
−
** Keep 3.x in place as is. Do any larger API changes in e4.
+
* Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
−
** Jeff - consumers need to understand that there is a lot of work being put into API, and it requires consumer's feedback / interaction
+
* Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
−
** If non-IBM committers need to break internals, they are allowed to do so. If IBM people need the internals, they will invest time to work around that again.
+
** Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
−
* Jeff - '''retention policies in the Galileo Repo'''
+
** Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
−
** Just keep on everybody's radar. Getting this right is VERY important for the entire community.
+
** Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
−
** We got some good stories in p2, but these don't mesh very well with mirroring (unless the entire repo is mirrored)
+
* VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
−
** Martin - discussions in last EAC call: Maven has long history of keeping old versions alive, Andrew Overholt mentioned that making access to old versions too easy may also be a problem
+
** Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
 +
** Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)
  
 +
'''March 8, 2016''' - No call
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Oct 14:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
+
'''March 1, 2016''' - Dani, Martin
−
* Dani '''Nightly Builds''': More builds broken. Need to take more care for the builds.
+
* Dani OOO next week
−
* Martin '''e4 and the AC''': AC wants monthly e4 updates; Question about 4 competing declarative UI technologies
+
* Alex: '''{{bug|179924}} SSH-agent authentication''' 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
−
** The switch between being in the "incubator" and being the "Eclipse SDK" needs to be "what are we using ourselves"?
+
** Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
−
** Until we use e4 ourselves to develop, it's going to remain in the incubator. At the time we switch over, there will be one or more winning technologies.
+
** Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
−
** McQ to join AC calls, Martin to remind timely.
+
* EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.
−
* Martin '''AC - API Deprecation Policy''' should be published, projects want to follow the Platform lead. '''AI McQ''' write something down
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Oct 7:''' - John, Dani, Martin, Jeff
+
'''February 23, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex
−
* Martin: '''How to run the performance tests'''
+
* Dani: '''Mars.2 is on track'''
−
** John: See [http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.test.performance/doc/Performance%20Tests%20HowTo.html?view=co web doc]
+
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
−
** Dani: Frederic working on a tool for displaying results, he's still the man to ask in case of questions.
+
** EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
 +
* Dani: '''Update on Welcome'''
 +
** Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
 +
* McQ: '''Scrollbars on Windows''' and their appearance
 +
** Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
 +
** Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
 +
** McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
 +
** Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
 +
** Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
 +
** Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Sep 30:''' -  
+
 
 +
'''February 16, 2016''' - Alex, Dani, Martin
 +
* no topics
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Sep 24:''' -  
+
 
 +
'''February 9, 2016''' - Alex, McQ, Dani
 +
* Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
 +
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|466370}} Welcome Screen redesign
 +
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|472614}} Smart Project Importer
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Sep 17:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
 
−
* John: '''CQ Process''' - The PMC's +1 is not for reading the code but for verifying that "we want this" on a high level. Bring dubious ones to the PMC as a group.
+
'''February 2, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
−
* McQ: '''Java 5''' - there are few plugins which may want an earlier Execution Environment, but it makes sense to drop the 1.4 Reference Platforms (need to communicate this to IBM).
+
* Dani: '''Foundation Hires''' - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
−
* John: '''Component Milestone Plans''' - bring up in the arch call
+
* Dani: '''Neon M5''' went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
−
* Martin: '''AC Representation''' - McQ to lead, John to second
+
* Dani: '''CQ Deadline''' on Feb.12 for Neon
−
* Getting ready for M2, signing off for 3.5.1
+
* Dani: {{bug|486647}} for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
 +
** With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
 +
** Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
 +
*** Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
 +
*** We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
 +
*** Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
 +
** Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Sep 10:''' - McQ, John, Jeff
+
'''January 26, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars
−
* '''Java 5'''
+
* Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
−
* Jeff: '''Apache Aerius'''
+
* Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
−
* '''e4 progress'''
+
* Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Sep 3:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
'''January 19, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* John: '''New 3.6 plan''' - consider removing 1.4 as reference platform, talk to Runtime guys at IBM
+
* Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
−
* Dani: '''Doc Features'''
+
* Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
 +
** Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
 +
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''PDE Build''' - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
 +
** Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement '''in the Platform'''
 +
** Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
 +
** Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
 +
** Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
 +
* Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
 +
** Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
 +
* SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
 +
* Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
 +
** Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
 +
* Martin: '''Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?'''
 +
** Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
 +
** Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
 +
*** Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
 +
** Debian or SuSE should be OK;
 +
** Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Aug 26:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff
+
'''January 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* '''New Sat4j version''' - RT PMC decided to take it out again, so not an issue
+
* Dani: '''Upstaffing the PMC'''
−
* '''Separating docs from the code?''' - Dani to post respective bug on the pmc mailing list
+
** Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
−
* '''e4 status updates''' - Jeff interested in regular e4 updates on the pmc
+
* Dani: '''Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng''' - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
 +
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''Remove PDE Build from our drops?'''
 +
** Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
 +
** McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
 +
** Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
 +
* Dani: {{bug|485257}} '''Copyright Policy Change''' - waiting on EMO/Legal input
 +
* Alex: '''Updating SWT to Java7'''
 +
* McQ: '''Travel for EclipseCon'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Aug 19:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff, John A
+
'''January 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani
−
* '''Pruning inactive committers'''
+
* Dani: '''PMC Membership'''
−
** Martin: The EMO [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-project-leadership/msg00000.html recommends removing inactive committers] in order to keep the project vibrant and relevant. Why are there so many non-voters?
+
−
*** Dani: Component Granularity - Portal is still broken for JDT UI vs. JDT Core.
+
−
*** Martin: Yet there are likely some who really haven't been active for long -- but only component / project lead would know that
+
−
** McQ: We are not actively searching to prune inactive committers. Committers are good, whether active or not. No interest in doing any work for this, but OK if others do.
+
−
*** Jeff: sees some sense in pruning the list, and did so in the past for Equinox
+
−
** Rights - what can we actually do in the Portal?
+
−
*** Component leads can mark people active who appear inactive on the portal
+
−
*** Only [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-project-leadership/msg00002.html The Project Lead can decommitterize], and can do so without PMC interaction
+
−
**** Jeff - it's odd that this is not symmetrical to approving new committers
+
−
** John: Once a committer is emeritus and decides to come back, can we make the process of re-making them a committer easier?
+
−
*** Jeff thinks that the normal committer process is good in this case.
+
−
** '''Consensus:'''
+
−
*** We do not actively ask to remove inactive committers, but if a component / project lead wants to do so, they are welcome
+
−
*** The process is to first send E-Mail to the potentially inactive committer and if they agree they are [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/equinox-dev/msg04309.html decommitterized] and optionally turned to [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/equinox-dev/msg04324.html committer emeritus]
+
−
*** If the E-Mail doesn't work any more they can also be decommitterized immediately.
+
−
* '''Reference Platforms'''
+
−
** Going through the process of refreshing reference platform list for Helios
+
−
** Currently considering: Switch to SLES 11 from SLES 10, add Windows 7, add Ubuntu LTS 9.04, add 64-bit Eclipse for Linux PPC-64 (possibly replacing 32-bit Eclipse for Linux PPC-64)
+
−
** If you have additional platforms or upgrades to consider, send a note on eclipse-pmc or mention during a PMC call
+
−
* '''Bugzilla: LATER / REMIND states'''
+
−
** 4000 bugs affected. Need to discuss in the arch call how to proceed.
+
−
** Dani Proposal: LATER --&gt; WONTFIX / REMIND --&gt; INVALID / and move back to the inbox since often assignees no longer active
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Aug 12:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff, John A
+
'''December 15, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* '''Retrospective Actions''' -
+
* No calls until Jan.5
−
** Need to nominate a person to care for performance: Dani to try find somebody from JDT core for a bounded time (6 months or so)
+
* Looking for a new PMC member
−
** Build issues
+
−
** Bugzilla performance etc
+
−
* '''Backward compatibility'''
+
−
** Reporting tool - want a foundation database, that Members can report their API / non-API usage signatures into
+
−
** Part of the member value-add
+
−
** KNOWING the impact is the first important thing
+
−
* '''Forward compatibility''' - from RT / Christian Campo
+
−
** PDE never tried to ensure that somebody can use 3.4 to launch 3.5
+
−
** The differences in launching 3.4 vs 3.5 are small... if we would have been aware, we could have made this possible
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Aug 5:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff, John A
+
'''December 8, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, John, Dani
−
* '''Security proposal''' on eclipse-pmc list - agree that this should be closer to the target runtimes (wtp, ...)
+
* Discussed {{bug|483803}} regarding the BREE for org.eclipse.core.jobs.
−
* '''"Plugin" vs "Bundle"''' - Clarification: Proposal was only about PDE. Global replacement is out of reach.
+
** PMC decided to move it back to JavaSE-1.7 but keep databinding on JavaSE-1.8
−
** McQ thinks that Plugin is a Bundle that makes use of the Eclipse extension registry (plugin.xml) - Jeff disagrees wrt declarative services
+
* Dani: Reminder: {{bug|475185}} Plan Update 1 - Due with Neon M4 next week
−
** As a message to end users, does it help us if we talk about "plugins"?
+
−
** Is this an internal statement about tooling, or something we should do more globally?
+
−
** Real problem is, that people should perceive PDE as tooling for bundles: Make Eclipse more adoptable in the OSGi community
+
−
** "Bundle" and "Plugin" have been used interchangeably for about 5 years... but still, a more pervasive change would require lots of docs changes that may be very painful for consumers
+
−
** McQ wants a technical proposal what should be changed
+
−
** Perhaps provide a '''separate''' tooling for bundles (with property files replaced)? EPP Package for Bundle Developers? - But a choice is not a good thing...
+
−
** '''Jeff suggestion:''' Do PDE 3.6 that is "all bundles" plus add a compatibility bundle that gives you the word "plugin" back.
+
−
* McQ: '''Backward Compatibility''' - consuming new versions of Eclipse is still too hard. IBM makes it the highest priority that '''everything''' that ran on 3.5 also runs on 3.6 - including internals - or the new version may not be consumable!
+
−
** Do anything that may not be easily backwards compatible in the 4.0 stream rather than the 3.x stream.
+
−
** Jeff thinks this is going to be a hard sell because internals are made to be internal
+
−
** Jeff: API Tooling that allows people to discover use of internals, see also {{bug|261544}}
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 29:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John A, Jeff
+
'''December 1, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani
−
* Dani will start to organize [[Eclipse/Galileo/Retrospective]] items
+
* McQ: The new 5-Dollar Raspberry Pi and Orion (Java server works just fine on the Pi2).
−
* Too many broken builds recently
+
** Node server is a bit smaller but single-user and no git - nice for developing node apps though
−
* e4 shipping 0.9 this week
+
* Dani: '''Mars.2 Endgame Plan sent'''
−
* PDE project proposal coming to explore Eclipse build technology
+
* Dani: {{bug|475185}} Plan Update 1 - Due with Neon M4 next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 15:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John A, Jeff
+
'''November 25, 2015''' - McQ, Martin, Alex
−
* Dani: What to do with the [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-dev/msg08660.html Galileo Retrospective] items? Which ones should become action items? E.g. Bugzilla Slowness?
+
* Alex: '''Bumping SWT to Java8'''
−
** John: Next PC meeting is Aug 3, should have items for the PC ready by then
+
** Lars wants to use Lambdas {{bug|481195}}; Markus keller wants static helper methods;
−
** Decision: PMC mailing list conversation, will review retrospective action in Jul 29 PMC meeting.
+
** Stephan Herrmann - University Research for Thread safety through typed annotations
−
* McQ to send out a note to formalize John as the PC representation
+
*** Are they ready to contribute? - Probably yes, needs to be clarified; having better dev support for Thread Safety will be a huge help
−
* McQ wants status messages again for the arch call
+
*** Dani: Thinks that going to Java8 feels a bit early for SWT, which is at the bottom of the technology stack ... would prefer 1 year later
 +
*** John: Lambda support doesn't necessarily require SWT to be Java 8 itself (it could just be more lambda friendly)
 +
**** Won't help with base listeners, but probably with mouse events and related .. follow up in the bugreport
 +
**** Labdas are more than syntactic sugar, it's more efficient ... still there is more value in Thread safety annotations
 +
*** McQ: Assumes there would be an extensive discussion on cross-project anyways ... but there is evidence now we could get value from doing this.
 +
* Dani: '''Update on Move of platform.text'''
 +
** Approval from IP, will soon move to platform.ui - will keep platform.text bugzilla.
 +
* John: '''FEEP'''
 +
** As discussed on the [[Architecture Council]]
 +
* McQ: '''Platform Support'''
 +
** Many Platforms are not really active - IBM keeps alive some of them, for example RHEL4
 +
** Recent mailinglist asking for Mac 32bit, have we done enough on announcements ?
 +
** '''Agreement''' there's no case for catering more to people who don't read announcements and follow the project. Having a mailinglist ask once in a while is OK.
 +
** Dani: Planning Update for Neon / M4 - please comment on the bug.
 +
*** John: Plan document is not really exhaustive on the oldest working Platform - RHEL4 surely won't work in Neon.
 +
** Alex: Consider a "Build your Own" approach for the more obscure Platforms? - Frees us from keeping older binaries in sync
 +
*** Did that for ARM32 and ARM64 in master - can build by just calling maven
 +
*** McQ: Who would ever validate that scripts are still valid... (Linux community: provides no binaries at all, who validates?)
 +
*** Alex: Providing scripts is a lot less work than providing stable and widely compatible binaries (about 1/3 of the work)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 24:''' - McQ, Dani
+
'''November 18, 2015''' - Alex, John, Dani
−
* Dani asked whether the PMC meeting notes are targeted for the public
+
* Dani: EclipseCon NA 2016 submission from our team:
−
** McQ: yes, they got announced on pmc mailing list
+
** https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2016/session/scaling-eclipse-high-dpi-dots-inch-monitors-challenges-and-solutions
−
* no PMC call next week due to a holiday
+
** https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2016/session/java-9-support-eclipse
 +
* John: mentioned FEEP
 +
** Alex has concerns that there's not an equal opportunity for everyone
 +
* Alex: new Lucene version: would like to put it in
 +
** cross-projects has already been asked and we got no negative vote
 +
** CQs are approved
 +
** seems to be blocked by Orbit
 +
** ==> Alex to find out why and report back next week in the PMC call
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 17:''' - McQ, Dani, Jeff, John A, (Martin joined just as we were hanging up)
+
 
−
* Dani asked whether the PMC had internal discussion of new committer votes
+
'''November 11, 2015''' - McQ, John, Dani
−
** A: Generally the PMC member for the component gives +1, unless they feel the need to bring the discussion to the rest of the PMC
+
* Discussed new meeting time that works for Martin
−
* Jeff mentioned that we should remind the teams to do retrospectives
+
** John to send a note that proposes Tuesday, 11:00 EST / 17:00 CET (starting in two weeks)
 +
* John: Alex mentioned at EclipseCon that there's no one in SWT team overlooking cross-platform, e.g. to craft new APIs
 +
** owning one platform is a full-time job
 +
** would need another person in SWT
 +
** for now one of the two co-leads needs to own that task - Dani to talk to Pradeep and the co-leads
 +
* John to Dani: how was EclipseCon
 +
** Dani: Great! Lots of talking to people; spent quite some time at the Hackathon; only saw 4 talks
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 10:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Steve, John A
+
 
−
* Welcome to Dani, John agrees to be here as a listening member for a while
+
'''October 28, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
−
* Sun Java 6u14 (May 25) broken for debugging because thread ID's are changed when garbage collector runs
+
* Dani: Discuss new meeting time that works for Martin
−
** Clearly a Sun bug (also happens in jdb) but not yet confirmed by Sun
+
** decided that John will send out a doodle poll
−
** Described in Readme, but readme will only be available when a rebuild occurs
+
* Dani: Discuss our position regarding the removal of committer emeritus ({{bug|480670}})
−
** Dani will send out a note tomorrow when they know more about other platforms
+
** everyone agreed that we would like to keep this for the following reasons:
 +
*** it is a good way reward those committers who invested lots of their time and made significant contributions to a project
 +
*** it makes no sense to remove something that currently works and ask projects to maintain this on their website
 +
** we have to make sure that the emeritus list doesn't get stale
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 3:''' - McQ, Martin, Steve, Jeff
+
 
−
* McQ - asking Dani M to join the Eclipse PMC to represent JDT. PMC agrees. McQ will send a note to Mike Milinkovich / EMO.
+
'''October 21, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
−
* McQ - asking John A to represent the Eclipse Project on Planning Council
+
* Dani: so far no negative vote in the vote to move platform.text into platform.ui
−
** Jeff thinks that the PC rep should be a PMC member in order to have a strong bi-directional communication path.
+
* McQ: Martin can no longer join, McQ would like to move the meeting
−
** McQ proposes asking John to join the PMC calls for communication.
+
** detailed several alternatives but no fit yet
−
** Martin agrees provided that John is OK with this delegate role.
+
** decided to continue the discussion in our next meeting
−
* Steve {{bug|277713}} critical bug, probably more critical bugs to triage - defer to arch call
+
−
* Jeff Target Provisioning discussion
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 27:''' - McQ, Martin, Steve
+
 
−
* {{bug|277735}} releng.tools copyright tool - Martin would like to see it released. Discuss in Arch call.
+
'''October 14, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
 +
* Dani: Community asked to move platform.text into platform.ui (see [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-text-dev/msg00484.html https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-text-dev/msg00484.html])
 +
** 3 solutions:
 +
*** make the move
 +
*** make a more radical move to merge everything into 'Platform'
 +
*** leave things as is and let new people join platform.text
 +
** McQ: merging everything together is not an option. Skills are too different. Resources, Debug and SWT need to be kept separate.
 +
** Dani: fine with the move as long as it does not serve as argument to merge everything into one pot
 +
** Alex: committers need to accept the move
 +
** PMC decision: OK with the move but Dani to ask the platform.text and platform.ui committers whether they are both OK with it. Dani to become co-lead of Platform UI
 +
 
 +
* John from Board Meeting: Eclipse Foundation wants to change perception that Eclipse is just an IDE. Therefore they would like to change the name of our project ("Eclipse").
 +
** McQ:
 +
*** this will not be for free. The name is used at many places (code, webpage, Help) and also by companies in their marketing
 +
*** maybe we just have to accept we made a mistake in the beginning and now live with it
 +
*** can't think of a good name - which indicates we shouldn't change it ("Platform" is not good and "Eclipse SDK" or "Eclipse IDE" hide that it is the base for "RCP" apps)
 +
** decided to talk about this again in the next call
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 20:''' - McQ, Martin
+
 
−
* PC Lead: John A suggested to represent Eclipse
+
'''October 7, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani, Martin
−
* Linux: New Launchers built, didn't start on Linux ... I-build was broken, want to know why
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|108668}} Default Text Encoding UTF-8 ?'''
 +
** On Linux and Mac, the Platform encoding is UTF-8 ; on Windows it's Cp1252 in most countries around the globe, even with Windows 10
 +
** Using the Platform encoding ensures interoperability with all local tools (editors, compilers, ...)
 +
*** '''Desire for UTF-8 only for Windows exchanging files with users on other systems'''
 +
*** '''Changing the encoding of an existing workspace after the fact is a no go''' (risk of data corruption when loading/saving a file, some encodings are lossy)
 +
*** '''Using an encoding different than the OS encoding is problematic too''' (risk of data corruption when importing or D&D files from the OS)
 +
** Proposal 1: UTF-8 on new empty workspaces on Windows ? --&gt; Might mean that external tools don't work as expected
 +
** Proposal 2: Make users aware (Restore Oomph Welcome, which was disabled via {{bug|459486}}) ? --&gt; But many users don't understand implications, other tools also don't do this
 +
** Proposal 3: Ask for encoding when team-sharing since only team-shared projects cause issues (eg EGit hook) ? --&gt; But on "push" it may be too late
 +
** Martin: Encoding describes content, so should be managed with the content (as a project setting)
 +
*** '''--&gt; Proposal 4: Move to a model where we encourage setting the project-level encoding preference'''
 +
**** When creating a project, set the workspace default on project level automatically --&gt; ensures that projects remain sane over their lifetime
 +
**** For projects lacking the project-level preference, introduce a Problem Marker (Warning) with quick fix to either UTF-8 or workspace default
 +
** '''Decision:'''
 +
*** '''We won't change the workspace default''' -- no use breaking existing users
 +
*** '''We'll set the project encoding pro-actively'''
 +
** Open questions:
 +
*** Do we need tooling to convert project from encoding A to encoding B (if project preference was set incorrectly initially) ?
 +
*** Shall we try setting source encoding on drag-and-drop, or shall the project dictate the policy ?
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 13:''' - McQ, Martin, Jeff, Steve, Philippe
+
'''September 30, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
−
* {{bug|273660}} Common Navigator: Pipelining issues with JDT + CDT
+
* Dani: will send a note to PMC list asking to approve new Debug leadership (Sarika)
 +
* Dani: we should finalize our API removal discussion from last week
 +
** agreed that APIs marked for removal have to be annotated with @noreference, @noextend and @noimplement
 +
** agreed that components should be allowed to remove API but they have to provide good reasons
 +
** agreed that we won't allow to delete APIs simply because they are deprecated
 +
** agreed that the PMC will decide case by case i.e. there will be no general rule
 +
** regarding version numbering we decided to also decide this case by case
 +
** Dani to update the removal document and have it reviewed by the PMC
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 6:''' - McQ, Martin, Jeff
+
 
−
* McQ PDE Feature Request
+
'''September 23, 2015''' - Dani, John, Alex, Martin
−
** New Target Platform came in late
+
* Dani: '''JDT Core''' - Co-lead going to step up
−
** PMC agrees with trying to fix this, but want to see the final patch before +1
+
* Dani: '''API Removal Discussion'''
−
* McQ Testplan
+
** Q1: When do we actually delete API? What's the benefit compared to the pain that we cause ?
−
** People going to test their own because test plan is too complex
+
*** Example of methods that don't do anything any more or do wrong things -- those should be removed
−
* Jeff Splash Screen
+
*** Example TableTreeViewer : Continue having the API doesn't hurt, there's no significant benefit removing it
 +
**** Alex: TableTree was completely broken on GTK for 2-3 years ... keeping such components that don't work properly lowers the quality
 +
**** Dani: Is there actual proof of bugs ? Or could it be working fine on Windows RCP ? If it's deprecated, people use it at own risk; do we really need to break them, if it provides value to some people on some Platforms ?
 +
**** John: In TableTreeViewer case, EMF had some generic code (was unclear if the path was ever taken) and CDT could update easily
 +
*** '''Summary''': scheduling for removal is OK with good arguments. Give Adopters a chance to respond before removal takes place.
 +
 
 +
** Q2: '''How to deal with the versions?'''
 +
*** Dani: Updating the major causes major pain on everyone (adoption work), so this should be avoided
 +
**** Actively developed plugins will notice source breakage when recompiling anyways -- no need to update the major for them.
 +
**** For dormant plugins (not recompiled), everyone will break when updating the major although only few may be affected - is it worth notifying those small percentage that might break ?
 +
**** Plugins who don't care recompiling may have to live with ClassNotFoundException
 +
**** Tooling exists: API Use Scan Tools can discover incorrect API references that are not announced by the versions
 +
*** '''Summary:''' Handle the Major with care -- in most cases, the cost of updating the major is not justified by the benefit.
 +
 
 +
** John: '''Announcement''' When thinking about removing something, we should announce that far and wide and ask for feedback
 +
*** Martin: But which channel is as effective as actually removing it ? There's always who don't actually listen...
 +
*** John: Still, giving a possibility to listen is important. Agree that mentioning in the release docs is not enough.
 +
*** Dani: When making a release, also send message with a link to the removals page (for all removals that are planned)
 +
** John: Mechanisms for maintaining binary compatibility while only breaking source compatibility (but it's a lot of work!)
 +
*** Dani: Agree, in this case better just leave it in there
 +
 
 +
** Alex: What to do next time, can we remove more stuff ?
 +
*** Martin: Should be at the discretion of the committers. They do the work. If they see the need for removal, they should be allowed to do so (as long as they play by the rules, like early announcement). Need to define what the rules are.
 +
 
 +
** John: There was an interesting discussion on cross-project, asking for well-known points in time where major breakage can occur
 +
*** Eg release but without all the deprecated at certain well-known point in time eg every 3-5 years
 +
*** '''AI''' ''continue that discussion on the Architecture Council''
 +
 
 +
** '''Summary:''' Essentially do what we did, plus more communication upfront, allow people to respond before deletion happens (to avoid churn)
 +
*** Committers still need to be able to delete stuff when they find it necessary.
 +
*** Updating the major (or not) to be decided case by case, but in many cases "breaking everyone" is not justified against "notifying few dormant plugins".
 +
 
 +
* Alex: '''Bumping the minimum GTK version again''' (may cause issues on Platforms like AIX -- to be discussed when it's time)
  
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 29:''' - McQ, Martin, Steve
+
'''September 16, 2015''' - John, Martin
−
* Martin: Java6 ref platform - anything between 6u3 and 6u10 (exclusive) was broken, anything after 6u10 (inclusive) has license issues in [http://java.sun.com/javase/6/javase-6-thirdpartyreadme.txt thirdpartylicensereadme.txt].
+
* John: '''API Removal Discussion'''
−
** Suggestion: Dont update the plan document yet, but start running tests with 6u13 on Linux. '''AI McQ''' talk to Kim about this.
+
** No urgency now -- changes have been reverted for now, and scheduled for 2017
−
** '''AI Martin''' make a final attempt to get more info out of Sun.
+
** Updating the major of a bundle knowingly breaks everyone/most adopters
−
* Steve: Solaris x86 - looks good but some problems with X server
+
*** In the past, breaking changes have often been small enough to work without increasing the major
−
* McQ: API Deprecation Policy {{bug|261544}} - '''AI McQ''' synthesise some summary and comment on the bug
+
*** One can argue that removing TableTreeViewer is big enough to warrant updating the major
−
* M7: Testers found some interesting prolbems with launching Eclipse from Eclipse (depending on VM, BIDI chars in paths dont work)
+
** Versioning packages has not been done in the past due to the huge upcoming maintenance effort when starting to do so
 +
** "Release Version" is decoupled from "bundle versions" already (and may move to date-based versions eg "2016.1" with rolling updates moving forward
 +
** --&gt; will have more discussion next week
  
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''September 9, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John, McQ
 +
* John: '''Planning Council Updates'''
 +
** 4 planned releases (March, June, September, December -- essentially end of each quarter) with flexible contents
 +
** Mid December rather than end to avoid churn, so this one is a little shorter
 +
** Only June is "major" - allowing to drop off, or breaking changes; others are "minor"
 +
** McQ want to reduce the number of simultaneous streams -- if "master" is more stable more often that's OK, but avoid too many "live" streams
 +
 +
* Software is getting more important - would be good to better support multicore
 +
 +
* John: '''IntelliJ change in licensing / sales model'''
 +
** Many eclipse-positive comments on the announcement blog
 +
** Possibility putting Money on Eclipse Development may become interesting for companies in this context
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 22:''' - McQ, Martin, Steve, Philippe
+
'''September 2, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
−
* Steve: Solaris x86 - got a Browser running, looking good,  
+
* Dani: '''EclipseDay India''' on Saturday, 200 attendees wanted to join, hat to cut to 150
−
* Steve: Cocoa Sheets - new API - Dialogs associated with a Window: Dialog slides down from title bar
+
** Keynote by Mike Milinkovich - large Community
−
** Clients need to opt in through new API because they need to specify a dialog as being adequate for sheet support
+
 
−
* Martin: Maintenance builds post SR2
+
* Dani: '''Policy for and Mars.2'''
−
** experience in the past has shown only very few, surgically isolated patches so the problem is probably smaller than anticipated
+
** Do we want to stick to the "Service" model or allow feature updates ?
−
** don't want anything produced to appear official -- anything that appears official MUST result in a test pass and this must be avoided
+
** Mars.1 winding down -- sticking to "Critical Fixes Only" for that
−
** it makes sense to talk about this in the context of "Release Train" and not only "Eclipse Platform" -- Martin filed {{bug|273262}} against the AC
+
** Too much in the maintenance stream causes risk of defocus ... are there relevant features that are worth the extra effort ?
−
* Martin has some update on Sun Java 6 -- will update {{bug|261724}}
+
** Dani: Suggests to require PMC Approval for adding a feature in - example candidate: Improvements for HiDPI
 +
*** Also: What about version number (2nd digit version update), IP disclosures, Translations ... ?
 +
*** Dani would suggest sticking to 3rd digit update only in the marketing release number; but a Release Review would be needed
  
 +
'''August 26, 2015''' -
 +
* Dani/Alex/Martin can't join (traveling)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 15:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, Steve
+
'''August 19, 2015''' - Alex, Dani
−
* McQ: '''Solaris x86''' - OK if we get the machine up and running until Friday, too late for swapping reference platform otherways
+
* nothing to discuss
−
* '''Polish List''' [[Polish3.5]] - Some developers don't have time for polish items. For now, it's just a list such that we *know* what's coming up.
+
−
** Martin wondering why we need a separate wiki page, bugzilla query should be enough?
+
−
** Who owns the Polish list - Eclipse Project Committers. We capture items that we find "stupid" when using Eclipse ourselves.
+
−
* '''Maintenance builds after 3.4'''
+
−
** IBM will never consume any community builds: want the absolute minimum of required fixes
+
−
** If a fix shows up in any IBM product, then it is on a bug somewhere
+
−
** But fixes are never cumulative
+
−
** Martin thinks that a first step would be well-defined markup of such "released-to-product" fixes.
+
−
** Another next step is allowing Eclipse builds by the Community -- we can do anything that's not making Kim's life harder.
+
−
** How to proceed with communications: open bugs, bugzilla discussions.
+
  
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''August 12, 2015''' - John, Dani
 +
* John asked whether we run on Windows 10
 +
** Dani: yes, the team already tested on it a few weeks ago. Runs smoothly one bug so far. Browser widget works despite new browser (Edge)
 +
** ''Martin (added after the meeting): A CDT update is needed to keep the Terminal from hanging (see {{bug|474327}}, will release with Mars.1). Got some duplicates already. Workaround is switch the Win10 Console to "Legacy Mode".''
 +
* Dani would like to get plan feedback by Friday EOD
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 1:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, Steve, Philippe
+
'''August 5, 2015''' - McQ, John, Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* McQ: Solaris x86 (recommend building since Sun helped at Eclipsecon), Perf results (not trustworthy on Windows?)
+
* PC meeting later today (planning calendar, calling SR1/2 "Update 1/2" instead
−
* Martin: M-builds beyond 3.4.2
+
** adding another release before Christmas might be a next step - even if Platform contributes identical bits
−
** Two problems: (a) provide a build system that the community can use, and (b) provide a platform for accumulating fixes easily without risking version collisions etc
+
 
−
*** The risk of (b) is high that as a result we'd have some low-quality sea of incompatible fixes. We better don't go with this.
+
* Dani: '''[[Eclipse/Mars Retrospective]]'''
−
** Other solution is allow to cherry-pick on source level - just provide a new target milestone in bugzilla, product builders cherry-pick patches they want to apply and do so locally.
+
** Move more components to Tycho build? (Would still need Ant to test against final build/bits)
−
* Jeff: OSGi tooling; future plans around build
+
** Contribution Review Dates: joined by some components but not all
−
** We need to run builds ourselves (see also above) - e.g. equinox sdk feature is in some internal repository
+
** Error Reporter: Interesting to look at top ten but the sheer number is too big
−
** PDE build has stretched pretty far over time.. what to do with it
+
*** John - based on Orion experience with similar error reporting :
−
*** Needs to be one of the main plan items for 3.6, but don't want to wait that long
+
**** Looking at changes in reported issues is more interesting than looking at reports themselves
−
*** SAP perhaps to help out with staffing
+
**** Reports help getting contributions (But, Dani finds that "just adding a null check" is often not what's desired for Java .. though helpful for Javascript)
−
* Boris to host the arch call since Steve, McQ, Philippe all cannot join
+
 
 +
* Dani: Foundation IP team doesn't require updating copyright notices per contribution any more (since that information is in git anyways)
 +
** The Project has to agree
 +
** Some contributors like to have their name in the source -- that's OK, no requirement to remove author information, but no requirement to add either
 +
** Won't remove existing lists (they never claimed to be complete, since there always was the "...and others" copyright notice
 +
** Dani to sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02422.html request for voting]
 +
 
 +
* Dani: Switching to '''Jetty 9.3.x (which requires JRE 8)'''
 +
** JRE 8 from Oracle (and also from IBM) exists for all Reference Platforms
 +
** Except Solaris, because we only support Solaris 32-bit and the JRE only exists as 64-bit
 +
** But the Plan for Neon is to have 64-bit Solaris support
 +
** New Language features in Java 8 are adopted, contributors would like to start using Java 8
 +
** McQ: In the past, staying on older Java was desired to enable more widespread use ... today, this argument does not seem valid any more, in fact likely more contributions / community is enabled by moving to Java 8
 +
** Dani: Only concern is some "non reference" Platforms like HP-UX might not have JREs initially; but that's OK as long as the reference platforms are good
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move to JRE 8 and allow projects to use Java 8 in their code.
 +
 
 +
* Dani: Looking for a contributor for SWT improvements for GTK3
 +
 
 +
* Martin: '''libwebkitgtk-3 on Ubuntu 14 forcing GTK 2''' not working ?
 +
** Alex: Using libwebkitgtk-4 which is much more stable, but not implementing the full SWT API
 +
** Most distros don't ship libwebkit for gtk-2 any more since it's not supported upstream any more and has many security issues
 +
 
 +
* Alex: '''Build SWT at the Foundation'''
 +
** Work with the Foundation going well, expect to have RHEL machines deployed at the foundation next month
  
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Mar 18:''' - McQ, Steve, Martin
+
'''July 15, 22 and 29, 2015''' -- no meeting
−
* no arch next week due to EclipseCon
+
−
* McQ found a performance test that is 8000% slower
+
−
** teams are overwhelmed (but remind them to check performance tests)
+
−
* Martin reminded us about use of [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg00575.html Parallel IP for Mature Projects] and JSch-0.1.41
+
−
** need to identify uses on the download links (or also inside the downloads?)
+
−
** EMO has not developed the policy yet
+
−
** McQ: "Q: Should we just not use the mechanism?"
+
−
** Downstream consumers may need to test against new lib features early. Just for test and experimentation, not for consumption: want parallel IP in I-builds
+
−
** McQ: Milestones are a corner case -- some consumers use these in products!
+
−
** Parallel IP is a tool for projects who want it. A clear policy is one thing. Guidelines for projects to adopt it or not is another thing -- may depend on the number and kind of consumers.
+
−
** Result: Martin to Bring up that topic on the [[Architecture Council/Meetings/March 22 F2F EclipseCon 2009]],
+
−
*** Example issues: can't put it in for I-build and remove for Milestone S-build
+
  
−
<hr />
+
<hr/>
 +
'''July 8, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Alex
 +
* John: '''Cross-Language Tooling Discussion''' on the eclipse.org-architecture-council and ide-dev mailing lists
 +
* decided to cancel the upcoming July meetings
  
−
'''Mar 11:''' - McQ, Steve, Jeff, Martin
+
<hr/>
−
* Martin - '''{{bug|227055}} and late API additions'''
+
'''July 1, 2015''' -- no meeting
−
** McQ: after m6 is too late if it has any downstream impact (changing behavior, deleting things, ...). Plain API additions may slip a week.
+
−
** Steve: If new API has effect on performance and polish, may look more favorably.
+
−
** If going in after M6, it needs to go through the process (e-mail and public discussion on eclipse-pmc list).
+
−
** Strict API Tooling checks to be enabled next week
+
−
* McQ - '''state of M6'''; some late UI things to review
+
−
** Some low-risk polish Cocoa items for Eclipsecon (enablers)
+
−
** Still changes in p2 (after m6), but stabilizing
+
−
* Martin/Jeff - '''New Target Platform Page''' may require more tweaking - risk of breaking community workflows!
+
−
** E.g. adding a directory to the target platform; Jeff uses target platforms a lot, so he's likely more exposed than most of the Community... 10 to 15 locations with hundreds of bundles...
+
−
** Related to the {{bug|224145}} p2 "extension location" problem which broke user workflows. Don't want to have such breakage again.
+
−
* Jeff - '''Status on Galileo Must do's''' - deferred to next week
+
−
* McQ - '''p2 OSGi OBR Repositories'''
+
−
** Jeff: OSGi wants to foster bundle store / bundle repositories, and specify a repository standard (long-standing RFE112 never been ratified)
+
−
** Similar to p2, but does have some potential issues
+
−
** Ideally, Equinox would be the reference impl of whatever standard comes up... but got a staffing problem, how to get the solution standardized that we need.
+
−
*** Writing a p2 OBR repository adapter is not hard, but OBR repos won't be able to eat p2 metadata
+
−
** p2 doesn't care about XML format whereas OBR specifies the XML. p2 got more sophisticated API model. Jeff doesn't have access to the latest spec.
+
−
* Steve wants Eclipsecon demos to be done on '''Cocoa''', will expedite any bugfixes (please do file them!). Jeff needs browser integration.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''June 24, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''Java 9''' - <a href="http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/eclipse-java%E2%84%A2-9-support-beta-mars">EAR Feature Patch</a> on the Marketplace NOW
 +
** No JARs any more - JRE is doing things internally using "jimage" format; updated search etc to create projects and work against them
 +
** If the Jimage filesystem provider isn't backported, one has to run the IDE on Java9 in order to code Java9
 +
** Modules are just a list of packages (and can refer to other modules) - no real JSR describing the plan yet - seems like just a replacement of "Profiles" (and JARs)
  
−
'''Mar 4:''' - McQ, Steve, Jeff, Philippe, Martin
+
<hr/>
 +
'''June 17, 2015''' - Dani, John, Martin, Alex
 +
* John: '''Mars''' Platform in good shape for Mars - EPP respin for Error Reporting
 +
* Dani: '''Crashes with Java 8''' - Potentially will add to the online README
 +
** Happens in the JIT, with latest Oracle Java 8 (with 8 Cores and very specific circumstances)
 +
** See {{Bug|465693}} - Probably https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8078262
 +
* Alex: '''XDG Application''' - looks like Docker but a similar idea
 +
** Environment description of the runtime - helps specifying the line-up of library versions that we test against and use
 +
** Big part of GNOME / GTK already pushing for it, might make sense to consider alignment
 +
** GNOME working towards compiling with a really old compiler, such that the physically identical bits can run against a large set of distros
 +
** See https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps
 +
** But if you want to try it out please read https://blogs.gnome.org/alexl/2015/06/17/testing-rawhide-apps-using-xdg-app/
  
−
* Upgrade 3.4 -> 3.5
+
<hr/>
−
** Will we be able to support this in p2?
+
−
*** Nope, needed hooks already in previous release (ie. needed them in 3.4 to be used by 3.5)
+
−
** Problems include replacing the Eclipse .exe
+
−
** Is this an important use case?  There is no band width to solve this problem in 3.5
+
−
** it's a good showcase for p2 technology
+
−
** idea: put in the low level hooks for 3.5.1 and use them next time (ie. 3.5 -> 3.6)
+
−
** Did Update Manager ever do this?
+
−
*** Jeff: It does not
+
  
−
* Deprecating Mac carbon?
+
'''June 10, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
−
** Apple claims Cocoa is the future
+
* Dani: 4.5RC4 looking good, no more fixes planned
−
** 3.5 will be the last version of Eclipse where Carbon is under active development
+
* Dani: Working on Java 9 feature patch
−
*** But will maintain for 3.6 and 3.7
+
* Alex: PC discussing a change in the release train
−
** Q: Has Apple officially deprecated carbon?
+
** Current common ground seems to be a request for more release points, and projects could decide whether they do features or maintenance
−
*** No but they have down played it (ie. no 64-bit support for carbon)
+
** From Platform point of view, stability is key. Some key contributors not interested doing
−
** Should there be an official deprecation policy for platforms?
+
** Martin: How to also cater to contributors who want their contributions released soon ?
 +
*** Martin Idea: With Tycho, building the Platform is easier so ask contributors build themselves
 +
*** Or, open up a new "experimental" stream ?
 +
*** Dani Idea: Market milestone builds differently, as "fully consumable" would serve the same purpose
 +
* Martin: Tested eclipse-installer (Oomph), looking really really good now
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''June 3, 2015''' - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
 +
* Dani: '''Mars Endgame'''
 +
* Dani: Please vote for release review
  
−
'''Feb 25:''' - McQ, Steve, Martin, Philippe
+
<hr/>
 +
'''May 20, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
 +
* Dani: '''Security Update''' - Platform work done, Orbit updated, reached out to Wayne and other affected projects.
 +
* Dani: '''RC2 Build''' - too many bugs assigned, Lars on Vacation, Dani will fill in
 +
* McQ: '''Too Many Platforms Built?''' - Who's really hurt by "too many builds" ?
 +
** Will meet with Mike & Foundation tomorrow, Alex is also interested (Dani to check).
  
−
* AC "committers should know" mail
+
<hr/>
−
** '''Following external links''' McQ why not introduce some Javascript on the server that warns users automatically when they follow an external link?
+
'''May 13, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Martin
−
** Components to projects flattening (not on our plate at the time)
+
* John, Dani - Mars Endgame looking good
−
* Steve Target milestones for Eclipse project
+
* Alex - {{bug|465874}} Lucene 5 looking good, almost done - Ready to commit as soon as CQs are in and Mars+1 is open
−
* BZ patches to be flagged when they contain API
+
* JDT for Java 9 - will need a wider discussion with EMO on make it easier to publish the work, e.g. in normal builds
−
* '''N-builds broken''' over the weekend (again) - 3 weekends in a row - no people currently who are willing to work during the weekend
+
−
** Hudson might help eventually, for now using e4 builds as the guinea pig
+
−
* '''UI Forms has no committers''' - opportunity for Community to become committer
+
−
** migrate off (using internal browser instead)
+
−
** no critical bugs, less than 125 interesting bugs
+
−
** long-term future is e4 with css/styling and declarative ui
+
−
* '''Performance:''' No news (not yet while closing down API)
+
−
** Philippe thinks that the performance milestone must be earlier since performance might touch on API. We're losing memory because rebasing
+
−
** McQ - this cycle we had a performance run in M2, this year we're in a better position than last year
+
  
−
'''Feb 18:''' - no meeting
+
<hr/>
 +
'''May 6, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
 +
* Dani: '''Java 9 timing''' - slight delay
 +
* Dani: RC1 preps
 +
** 2-day test pass went fine - 2 severe issues found, will be addressed
 +
** Request to watch PMC mailing list for API exceptions and defect approvals
 +
* John: '''PC Discussion on Release Cycles'''
 +
** Multiple releases per year PLUS maintenance streams seems like overkill
 +
** Consider an approach like Orion that just moves constantly forward
 +
** Especially for the Platform, being rock solid is most important. Still to attract new contributors we need to allow more frequent "feature updates".
 +
*** A model where both "stable/maintenance" _and_ "features" are contributed to the train might be too much work/overhead.
 +
*** Consider a model like Ubuntu, ... with some release numbers being "stable/LTS base" and others being "in-between feature releases" ?
 +
*** Consider a model like LTS for maintenance fixes / aside mainstream just moving forward ?
  
−
'''Feb 11:'''
 
  
−
'''Feb 4:'''
+
'''April 15, 2015''' - Dani, John, McQ, Alex, Martin
 +
* Dani: '''Java 1.7 Changes'''
 +
** Some bundles have been moved to a 1.7 BREE by new committers, even after API freeze
 +
** Rule has always been "we move up when there's a reason to move up". We won't move up without reason.
 +
*** Dani: Moving the BREE may even cause API changes, so should only be done when incrementing the minor version (5% risk)
 +
*** Alex: Such updates allow staying current and not get to "rewrite is needed" state (thus needed) but has to happen before M6 (API freeze)
 +
** Alex suggest not accepting additional changes, but not reverting either (to avoid churn)
 +
* Dani: '''Batik 1.6 update'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''April 8, 2015''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, John, McQ
 +
* Dani: '''Batik''' - Platform is good, Train may need to update, perhaps updating one bundle only would suffice. John will follow up.
 +
* Alex: '''SWT for GTK 3 News'''
 +
** GTK port finally decoupled from X11 - it renders on Wayland now, can switch the renderer to a pure HTML one
 +
** This opens up opportunities (but depends on hosts that have GTK).
  
−
'''Jan 28:'''
 
  
−
* Java 6
+
<hr/>
−
** move reference platform to Sun 6u11
+
'''April 1, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani (Regrets: John travelling)
−
*** problem(?): Sun added 3 new items added that are licensed LGPL or GPL
+
* Alex: '''GTK 3.16''' seeing issues again - fixed some crashes, but scrolling is still entirely broken
−
*** [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] Martin added comment to {{bug|261724}} to identify this issue
+
** SWT uses a number of things that GTK declares as "implementation detail"
−
* ICU 4.0
+
* PMC approval on piggyback CQ's (AC question forwarded by John)
−
** we will stay with 4.0
+
** Dani sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02332.html our position] to John in order to update the AC
−
* Deprecation Policy
+
−
** still under discussion, {{bug|261544}}
+
−
* Use of internal provisional
+
−
** seems to be some consensus about *not* requiring this, {{bug|261874}}
+
−
* JDT co-leadership
+
−
** what is the process?
+
−
*** Jeff: vote in community; then propose to the PMC
+
−
*** Would like to get Dani Meghert involved.
+
−
*** Philippe will check development process documents
+
−
* Cocoa port
+
−
** Looking good
+
−
** Taking early access off and making it the "first" choice for Mac downloads
+
−
* Milestone progress / 3.4.2
+
−
** Need to discuss M5 in arch call (should have done this last week)
+
−
** Should always remind the team in the arch call of upcoming deadlines
+
−
** Performance issues that need API to fix have to happen by M6
+
−
*** Teams should understand performance results (will be discussed in a couple of weeks)
+
−
* Re: Reference Platforms
+
−
** Java6 on Solaris
+
−
*** Martin's company would like to support this
+
−
*** [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] filed {{bug|262907}} to discuss process and practices around reference platforms
+
  
−
'''Jan 21:'''
+
<hr/>
 +
'''March 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 +
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - Bigger this year due to LocationTech (750 attendees)
 +
** Mark Reinhold keynote and "after-session" on Java 9
 +
** Much interest in Orion JS tooling / editor, also on desktop
 +
** Public face of Eclipse Platform at the conference was much more diverse than in the past (Lars Vogel, Max Anderson, Google ...)
 +
* Dani: {{bug|458730}} '''Mars Plan Update'''
 +
* Dani: '''e4 project leadership''' approved by EMO
 +
* Dani: Szymon Brandys resigned as Platform/Resources co-lead. Need to +1 on the mailing list
  
−
* How should we track meeting minutes topic - Wiki
+
<hr/>
−
* Provisional API conventions - Jeff working on {{bug|261874}} for discussion at the AC
+
−
** should there be a tag in the Javadoc (ie. "experimental")?
+
−
** Jeff wants to keep the concerns "conventions" vs "Javadoc" separate
+
−
** Jeff, "... Javadoc should not be generated for provisional ..."
+
−
** Martin disagrees, "... need feedback and discussion for new API ..."
+
−
* What is the '''role of the PMC lead?'''
+
−
** global view of components/processes
+
−
** organize architecture call, ensure we are on track
+
−
** spark conversations (ie. M5 is feature freeze)
+
−
* '''Reference platforms'''
+
−
** we should choose JDK1.6, "update 11" rather than "update 4"
+
−
** around "RC time", solidify the reference platform (it is the one we are testing on)
+
  
−
'''Jan 14:'''
+
'''March 11, 2015 - no meeting (EclipseCon)'''
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
 
 +
'''March 4, 2015''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, John
 +
* Dani: '''e4 leadership''' - Dani will volunteer to co-lead
 +
* Dani: '''BREEs''' - documentation about how to pick the EE
 +
** Recommending the "earliest generally supported JRE that provides the capabilities you need"
 +
** Would like an URL on the page pointing to the most recent plan (talking to Wayne)
 +
* John: '''greatfix contest'''
 +
** Dani: Working well - some very small contributions but some also very large (eg Customize Perspective fixes)
 +
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - numbers looking good; join Planning Council Breakfast as delegate for Dani
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''February 25, 2015''' - Dani, Martin McQ
 +
* No topics
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''February 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* Alex: '''Building Native Launchers'''
 +
** Current way of building is kinda unpredictable - even if getting some agreement on versions to use, results are kinda unpredictable
 +
** Pushing towards Hudson RHEL builders at least at the EF to get more transparency and automation - attempt to mimic the infrastructure at IBM
 +
** Looking at 3 primary architectures (at the EF) for Linux vs. secondary architectures (non-public builders potentially)
 +
* Dani: Great initiative, but other (non-EF) builders must not be broken
 +
** EF doesn't allow any commercial tools (but currently, e.g. Windows launchers are built with MSVS)
 +
* Alex is willing to spend time to get Linux builds running; but can't help with other architectures
 +
** Martin: great approach - for Windows, using a cross-compiler on Linux might be interesting (after Linux native works)
 +
* Alex: This is just phase one - getting rid of the binaries in git repos might be phase 2 (since the checked-in binaries easily cause inconsistencies between Java and Native side)
 +
** Martin: Checked-in binaries help consumers and contributors who just want to make a Java change
 +
** Dani: Checked-in binaries are also used for comparing build results for expected vs accidental changes
 +
 
 +
* Alex: '''{{bug|459399}} - Policy for recommended minimum execution environments for bundles'''
 +
** Dani: It works today
 +
*** To run Eclipse, Java 8 or Java 9 can be used (minimum BREE has no impact)
 +
*** To modify the source, a new JRE can be used but then the Execution Environment Descriptions need to be installed
 +
** Policy as discussed in the past: Each project can increase the BREE if there is a real need (such as generifying) and no upstream clients are broken
 +
*** But don't change the BREE without justification -- changing the BREE always has some effect, such as new warnings that would need to be addressed
 +
*** Suggested BREE for new bundles has already been changed by Lars
 +
* Alex: Even for bundles in "maintenance mode", old BREE causes issues for people who build from source (who have to change compilers etc)
 +
* No conclusion so far (Alex and Dani disagree)
 +
 
 +
* Dani: '''e4 leadership'''
 +
** Mature bits being moved to Eclipse - e4 remaining as an incubator to keep alive for experiments with low entry barrier
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''February 11, 2015''' - Dani, Alex
 +
* no topics
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
 
 +
'''February 4, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* Alex: With GTK-3.15.[345] , Eclipse is entirely unusable
 +
** Alex has some dirty workarounds to make it start, but still many issues like trees not painted, ...
 +
** Crash on startup identified to be GTK bug. Fix to be released in 3.15.6 https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=edec64cda3d4518b4e87d5ea5d287d4570ba9933
 +
* Dani: Working on Solaris 64-bit
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
 
 +
'''January 28, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, John
 +
* Dani: Switch Mac OS X 10.9 with 10.10 in Mars target environments
 +
** No objections
 +
* Alex: Looking for any Eclipse related activity @Fosdem
 +
<hr/>
 +
 
 +
'''January 21, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
 +
* Alex: '''Process for allowing non-committers extended bugzilla privileges (for bug triage)?'''
 +
** Dani: Yes a process exists. Send bugzilla username to Dani.
 +
* Alex: '''New resource for helping with SWT'''
 +
* Dani: '''Platform/UI co-lead'''
 +
* Dani: Solaris: Java 8 will only support 64 bits on both Intel and SPARC --&gt; IBM SWT Team considering to invest in getting patches in for 64-bit Solaris
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''January 14, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 +
* Dani: Update on Platform/UI Leadership: Daniel Rolka left IBM and for now has no time to contribute. He stepped down as co-lead and nominated Lars Vogel
 +
* Dani: Solaris x86 64-bit support - patches exist, but no machine available. No luck to get one from Oracle or via Eclipse Foundation. We will not support Solaris x86 64-bit unless someone makes a machine available
 +
<hr/>
 +
 
 +
'''January 7, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 +
* Dani: '''Platform/UI Leadership'''
 +
* John: '''Git security issue''' - pick up a patch for Jgit in the packages before SR2? - Mostly an EPP
 +
<hr/>
  
−
* PMC component ownership x bugzilla pmc authorization
+
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Revision as of 11:19, 28 June 2016

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

June 28, 2016 - McQ, Martin, Alex

  • Discussion about Language Server Protocol
    • MS sponsoring hackathon in Zurich, Dani expected to go there
    • The protocol has an Open Source license, but there is no Open Source Governance ... who owns the specification?

June 21, 2016 -

June 14, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars

  • McQ: Mattermost / Slack for communication
    • not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
  • Lars: Master is Open
    • Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
    • Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
    • Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes (bug 360703) is open to improve that)
    • We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
  • Lars: Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ? - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
  • McQ: Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che (from ide-dev mailing list and bug 496114)
    • The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
    • The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
      • People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
    • The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
    • How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
      • At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
      • But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
  • Dani: What goes into the Neon Update Releases
    • as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
    • AI: Dani will prepare a note
  • Dani: Using Sound in Eclipse
    • Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see bug 496003)
    • Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
    • Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
    • McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so that should really be leveraged
    • Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
    • Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
    • Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.

June 7, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Alex

  • no topics

May 31, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: IP Log
    • The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
    • In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
  • Dani: Release Review
    • Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
  • Dani: Update Jetty to 3.9.3
    • Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
  • Dani: RC4 Status Update
    • Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command

May 24, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Martin

  • Dani: IP Log Generator - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
  • Dani: Release Review - Deadline next week (June 2)
  • Dani: Deprecation Request from Brian
    • Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
  • Dani: Copyright End Date
    • AGREEMENT to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
    • Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
    • Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
    • This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
  • Dani: Neon Status
    • Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time

May 17, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: bug 475184 Neon Plan Update 2
    • Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
    • SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
      • Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
        • Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
      • Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
    • Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
    • AI Dani to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
  • Dani: Copyright End Date - EMO: To be decided per project
    • IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
    • Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
      • gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
    • Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
  • Dani: Policy for Neon.Update Releases - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
    • Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
    • Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
    • Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - decision: discuss feature by feature at PMC
    • Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
    • In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
  • Dani: Neon RC2 Builds Update
    • Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
    • Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
    • GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
    • Lars: bug 493477 detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC

May 10, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Dani: Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases
    • Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
  • Martin: RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2
    • GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
      • Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
    • Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
      • Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
      • There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
      • Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
    • Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
      • Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
      • Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)

May 3, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Brian's request on the PMC list
    • McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
    • Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
    • Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...
    • McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
    • Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
    • ACTION McQ to -1 and argue why.
  • Alex: Update on Accessibility
    • broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
    • due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
    • Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
      • and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
    • Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !

April 26, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
  • Alex: Accessibility - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
    • Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
    • McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
  • Alex: Platform.ui generification of project
    • Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
    • McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
    • Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
    • Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
    • ACTION Alex to prepare a message for review and then send that.
  • Lars: Copyright discussion
    • Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
    • The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
  • Dani: Update on FEEP
    • Paul not reached out yet
    • A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
  • Dani: Update on M7
    • Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
    • Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full


April 19, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)

  • Dani: IP Stuff on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
  • Dani: FEEP discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
    • General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
    • Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
    • Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
  • Dani: All PMC please review and +1 API requests when you find time
    • McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
    • AGREEMENT on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
  • Reviews vs. Features
    • Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora


April 12, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex

  • Lars: Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement
    • bug 485257_c13 EMO: All information is in the git repos
    • McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
    • Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
    • ACTION McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
  • Lars: bug 490012 Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE
    • Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
    • Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
    • Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
    • DECISION to get rid of the strict error per project.
  • Dani: bug 475934 API Change on model processing order
    • Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
    • McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
    • McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
      • Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
      • Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
      • Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
    • Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
    • DECISION to allow making the change and announce widely.
  • Dani: FEEP and EMO Hiring Update
    • EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
    • Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
    • Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
  • Dani: IDE-dev proposal
    • People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
    • Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
      • McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
      • OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.

April 5, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: FEEP Update
    • Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
    • Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
    • Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
  • Dani: Solaris 32-bit
    • Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
    • Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
      • Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
    • McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
  • Dani: New Solstice Welcome
    • Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
    • Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
    • McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
  • Alex: FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)
    • "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
      • Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
      • It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
      • McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
    • Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
      • AI Dani send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
      • AI Martin compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
    • Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
    • Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
      • McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
      • Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
      • McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal Transparency on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
      • McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
        • Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: THIS is what the FEEP should have adressed !
    • Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
    • Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
      • McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
    • Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
  • Lars Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy
    • Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).

March 29, 2016 - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex

  • Lars: PDE Build in Maintenance - Officially state this ?
    • PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
    • Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
    • McQ: DECISION Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
  • Lars: Integrate more projects into Platform UI?
    • Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
    • Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
    • Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
    • DECISION to not merge projects at this time.
  • Lars: Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list
    • McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
    • Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
    • Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. AI Dani notify mailing list.
  • Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
    • Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"

March 22, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
  • Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
  • Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
  • Discussion about Che
    • McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
    • Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
    • McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?

March 15, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)
  • Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
  • McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
  • Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
  • Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
    • Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
    • Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
    • Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
  • VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
    • Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
    • Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)

March 8, 2016 - No call

March 1, 2016 - Dani, Martin

  • Dani OOO next week
  • Alex: bug 179924 SSH-agent authentication 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
    • Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
    • Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
  • EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.

February 23, 2016 - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex

  • Dani: Mars.2 is on track
  • Dani: FEEP Update
    • EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
  • Dani: Update on Welcome
    • Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
  • McQ: Scrollbars on Windows and their appearance
    • Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
    • Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
    • McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
    • Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
    • Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
    • Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).

February 16, 2016 - Alex, Dani, Martin

  • no topics

February 9, 2016 - Alex, McQ, Dani

  • Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
  • Dani: please take a look at bug 466370 Welcome Screen redesign
  • Dani: please take a look at bug 472614 Smart Project Importer

February 2, 2016 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Dani: Foundation Hires - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
  • Dani: Neon M5 went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
  • Dani: CQ Deadline on Feb.12 for Neon
  • Dani: bug 486647 for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
    • With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
    • Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
      • Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
      • We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
      • Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
    • Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default

January 26, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
  • Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
  • Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track

January 19, 2016 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
  • Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
    • Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
  • Dani: bug 485429 PDE Build - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
    • Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement in the Platform
    • Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
    • Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
    • Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
  • Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
    • Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
  • SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
  • Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
    • Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
  • Martin: Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?
    • Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
    • Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
      • Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
    • Debian or SuSE should be OK;
    • Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2

January 12, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Upstaffing the PMC
    • Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
  • Dani: Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
  • Dani: bug 485429 Remove PDE Build from our drops?
    • Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
    • McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
    • Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
  • Dani: bug 485257 Copyright Policy Change - waiting on EMO/Legal input
  • Alex: Updating SWT to Java7
  • McQ: Travel for EclipseCon

January 5, 2016 - McQ, Dani

  • Dani: PMC Membership

December 15, 2015 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • No calls until Jan.5
  • Looking for a new PMC member

December 8, 2015 - McQ, Alex, John, Dani

  • Discussed bug 483803 regarding the BREE for org.eclipse.core.jobs.
    • PMC decided to move it back to JavaSE-1.7 but keep databinding on JavaSE-1.8
  • Dani: Reminder: bug 475185 Plan Update 1 - Due with Neon M4 next week

December 1, 2015 - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani

  • McQ: The new 5-Dollar Raspberry Pi and Orion (Java server works just fine on the Pi2).
    • Node server is a bit smaller but single-user and no git - nice for developing node apps though
  • Dani: Mars.2 Endgame Plan sent
  • Dani: bug 475185 Plan Update 1 - Due with Neon M4 next week

November 25, 2015 - McQ, Martin, Alex

  • Alex: Bumping SWT to Java8
    • Lars wants to use Lambdas bug 481195; Markus keller wants static helper methods;
    • Stephan Herrmann - University Research for Thread safety through typed annotations
      • Are they ready to contribute? - Probably yes, needs to be clarified; having better dev support for Thread Safety will be a huge help
      • Dani: Thinks that going to Java8 feels a bit early for SWT, which is at the bottom of the technology stack ... would prefer 1 year later
      • John: Lambda support doesn't necessarily require SWT to be Java 8 itself (it could just be more lambda friendly)
        • Won't help with base listeners, but probably with mouse events and related .. follow up in the bugreport
        • Labdas are more than syntactic sugar, it's more efficient ... still there is more value in Thread safety annotations
      • McQ: Assumes there would be an extensive discussion on cross-project anyways ... but there is evidence now we could get value from doing this.
  • Dani: Update on Move of platform.text
    • Approval from IP, will soon move to platform.ui - will keep platform.text bugzilla.
  • John: FEEP
  • McQ: Platform Support
    • Many Platforms are not really active - IBM keeps alive some of them, for example RHEL4
    • Recent mailinglist asking for Mac 32bit, have we done enough on announcements ?
    • Agreement there's no case for catering more to people who don't read announcements and follow the project. Having a mailinglist ask once in a while is OK.
    • Dani: Planning Update for Neon / M4 - please comment on the bug.
      • John: Plan document is not really exhaustive on the oldest working Platform - RHEL4 surely won't work in Neon.
    • Alex: Consider a "Build your Own" approach for the more obscure Platforms? - Frees us from keeping older binaries in sync
      • Did that for ARM32 and ARM64 in master - can build by just calling maven
      • McQ: Who would ever validate that scripts are still valid... (Linux community: provides no binaries at all, who validates?)
      • Alex: Providing scripts is a lot less work than providing stable and widely compatible binaries (about 1/3 of the work)

November 18, 2015 - Alex, John, Dani

November 11, 2015 - McQ, John, Dani

  • Discussed new meeting time that works for Martin
    • John to send a note that proposes Tuesday, 11:00 EST / 17:00 CET (starting in two weeks)
  • John: Alex mentioned at EclipseCon that there's no one in SWT team overlooking cross-platform, e.g. to craft new APIs
    • owning one platform is a full-time job
    • would need another person in SWT
    • for now one of the two co-leads needs to own that task - Dani to talk to Pradeep and the co-leads
  • John to Dani: how was EclipseCon
    • Dani: Great! Lots of talking to people; spent quite some time at the Hackathon; only saw 4 talks

October 28, 2015 - McQ, John, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Discuss new meeting time that works for Martin
    • decided that John will send out a doodle poll
  • Dani: Discuss our position regarding the removal of committer emeritus (bug 480670)
    • everyone agreed that we would like to keep this for the following reasons:
      • it is a good way reward those committers who invested lots of their time and made significant contributions to a project
      • it makes no sense to remove something that currently works and ask projects to maintain this on their website
    • we have to make sure that the emeritus list doesn't get stale

October 21, 2015 - McQ, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: so far no negative vote in the vote to move platform.text into platform.ui
  • McQ: Martin can no longer join, McQ would like to move the meeting
    • detailed several alternatives but no fit yet
    • decided to continue the discussion in our next meeting

October 14, 2015 - McQ, John, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Community asked to move platform.text into platform.ui (see https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-text-dev/msg00484.html)
    • 3 solutions:
      • make the move
      • make a more radical move to merge everything into 'Platform'
      • leave things as is and let new people join platform.text
    • McQ: merging everything together is not an option. Skills are too different. Resources, Debug and SWT need to be kept separate.
    • Dani: fine with the move as long as it does not serve as argument to merge everything into one pot
    • Alex: committers need to accept the move
    • PMC decision: OK with the move but Dani to ask the platform.text and platform.ui committers whether they are both OK with it. Dani to become co-lead of Platform UI
  • John from Board Meeting: Eclipse Foundation wants to change perception that Eclipse is just an IDE. Therefore they would like to change the name of our project ("Eclipse").
    • McQ:
      • this will not be for free. The name is used at many places (code, webpage, Help) and also by companies in their marketing
      • maybe we just have to accept we made a mistake in the beginning and now live with it
      • can't think of a good name - which indicates we shouldn't change it ("Platform" is not good and "Eclipse SDK" or "Eclipse IDE" hide that it is the base for "RCP" apps)
    • decided to talk about this again in the next call

October 7, 2015 - McQ, John, Alex, Dani, Martin

  • Dani: bug 108668 Default Text Encoding UTF-8 ?
    • On Linux and Mac, the Platform encoding is UTF-8 ; on Windows it's Cp1252 in most countries around the globe, even with Windows 10
    • Using the Platform encoding ensures interoperability with all local tools (editors, compilers, ...)
      • Desire for UTF-8 only for Windows exchanging files with users on other systems
      • Changing the encoding of an existing workspace after the fact is a no go (risk of data corruption when loading/saving a file, some encodings are lossy)
      • Using an encoding different than the OS encoding is problematic too (risk of data corruption when importing or D&D files from the OS)
    • Proposal 1: UTF-8 on new empty workspaces on Windows ? --> Might mean that external tools don't work as expected
    • Proposal 2: Make users aware (Restore Oomph Welcome, which was disabled via bug 459486) ? --> But many users don't understand implications, other tools also don't do this
    • Proposal 3: Ask for encoding when team-sharing since only team-shared projects cause issues (eg EGit hook) ? --> But on "push" it may be too late
    • Martin: Encoding describes content, so should be managed with the content (as a project setting)
      • --> Proposal 4: Move to a model where we encourage setting the project-level encoding preference
        • When creating a project, set the workspace default on project level automatically --> ensures that projects remain sane over their lifetime
        • For projects lacking the project-level preference, introduce a Problem Marker (Warning) with quick fix to either UTF-8 or workspace default
    • Decision:
      • We won't change the workspace default -- no use breaking existing users
      • We'll set the project encoding pro-actively
    • Open questions:
      • Do we need tooling to convert project from encoding A to encoding B (if project preference was set incorrectly initially) ?
      • Shall we try setting source encoding on drag-and-drop, or shall the project dictate the policy ?

September 30, 2015 - McQ, John, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: will send a note to PMC list asking to approve new Debug leadership (Sarika)
  • Dani: we should finalize our API removal discussion from last week
    • agreed that APIs marked for removal have to be annotated with @noreference, @noextend and @noimplement
    • agreed that components should be allowed to remove API but they have to provide good reasons
    • agreed that we won't allow to delete APIs simply because they are deprecated
    • agreed that the PMC will decide case by case i.e. there will be no general rule
    • regarding version numbering we decided to also decide this case by case
    • Dani to update the removal document and have it reviewed by the PMC

September 23, 2015 - Dani, John, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: JDT Core - Co-lead going to step up
  • Dani: API Removal Discussion
    • Q1: When do we actually delete API? What's the benefit compared to the pain that we cause ?
      • Example of methods that don't do anything any more or do wrong things -- those should be removed
      • Example TableTreeViewer : Continue having the API doesn't hurt, there's no significant benefit removing it
        • Alex: TableTree was completely broken on GTK for 2-3 years ... keeping such components that don't work properly lowers the quality
        • Dani: Is there actual proof of bugs ? Or could it be working fine on Windows RCP ? If it's deprecated, people use it at own risk; do we really need to break them, if it provides value to some people on some Platforms ?
        • John: In TableTreeViewer case, EMF had some generic code (was unclear if the path was ever taken) and CDT could update easily
      • Summary: scheduling for removal is OK with good arguments. Give Adopters a chance to respond before removal takes place.
    • Q2: How to deal with the versions?
      • Dani: Updating the major causes major pain on everyone (adoption work), so this should be avoided
        • Actively developed plugins will notice source breakage when recompiling anyways -- no need to update the major for them.
        • For dormant plugins (not recompiled), everyone will break when updating the major although only few may be affected - is it worth notifying those small percentage that might break ?
        • Plugins who don't care recompiling may have to live with ClassNotFoundException
        • Tooling exists: API Use Scan Tools can discover incorrect API references that are not announced by the versions
      • Summary: Handle the Major with care -- in most cases, the cost of updating the major is not justified by the benefit.
    • John: Announcement When thinking about removing something, we should announce that far and wide and ask for feedback
      • Martin: But which channel is as effective as actually removing it ? There's always who don't actually listen...
      • John: Still, giving a possibility to listen is important. Agree that mentioning in the release docs is not enough.
      • Dani: When making a release, also send message with a link to the removals page (for all removals that are planned)
    • John: Mechanisms for maintaining binary compatibility while only breaking source compatibility (but it's a lot of work!)
      • Dani: Agree, in this case better just leave it in there
    • Alex: What to do next time, can we remove more stuff ?
      • Martin: Should be at the discretion of the committers. They do the work. If they see the need for removal, they should be allowed to do so (as long as they play by the rules, like early announcement). Need to define what the rules are.
    • John: There was an interesting discussion on cross-project, asking for well-known points in time where major breakage can occur
      • Eg release but without all the deprecated at certain well-known point in time eg every 3-5 years
      • AI continue that discussion on the Architecture Council
    • Summary: Essentially do what we did, plus more communication upfront, allow people to respond before deletion happens (to avoid churn)
      • Committers still need to be able to delete stuff when they find it necessary.
      • Updating the major (or not) to be decided case by case, but in many cases "breaking everyone" is not justified against "notifying few dormant plugins".
  • Alex: Bumping the minimum GTK version again (may cause issues on Platforms like AIX -- to be discussed when it's time)


September 16, 2015 - John, Martin

  • John: API Removal Discussion
    • No urgency now -- changes have been reverted for now, and scheduled for 2017
    • Updating the major of a bundle knowingly breaks everyone/most adopters
      • In the past, breaking changes have often been small enough to work without increasing the major
      • One can argue that removing TableTreeViewer is big enough to warrant updating the major
    • Versioning packages has not been done in the past due to the huge upcoming maintenance effort when starting to do so
    • "Release Version" is decoupled from "bundle versions" already (and may move to date-based versions eg "2016.1" with rolling updates moving forward
    • --> will have more discussion next week

September 9, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, John, McQ

  • John: Planning Council Updates
    • 4 planned releases (March, June, September, December -- essentially end of each quarter) with flexible contents
    • Mid December rather than end to avoid churn, so this one is a little shorter
    • Only June is "major" - allowing to drop off, or breaking changes; others are "minor"
    • McQ want to reduce the number of simultaneous streams -- if "master" is more stable more often that's OK, but avoid too many "live" streams
  • Software is getting more important - would be good to better support multicore
  • John: IntelliJ change in licensing / sales model
    • Many eclipse-positive comments on the announcement blog
    • Possibility putting Money on Eclipse Development may become interesting for companies in this context

September 2, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, John

  • Dani: EclipseDay India on Saturday, 200 attendees wanted to join, hat to cut to 150
    • Keynote by Mike Milinkovich - large Community
  • Dani: Policy for and Mars.2
    • Do we want to stick to the "Service" model or allow feature updates ?
    • Mars.1 winding down -- sticking to "Critical Fixes Only" for that
    • Too much in the maintenance stream causes risk of defocus ... are there relevant features that are worth the extra effort ?
    • Dani: Suggests to require PMC Approval for adding a feature in - example candidate: Improvements for HiDPI
      • Also: What about version number (2nd digit version update), IP disclosures, Translations ... ?
      • Dani would suggest sticking to 3rd digit update only in the marketing release number; but a Release Review would be needed

August 26, 2015 -

  • Dani/Alex/Martin can't join (traveling)

August 19, 2015 - Alex, Dani

  • nothing to discuss

August 12, 2015 - John, Dani

  • John asked whether we run on Windows 10
    • Dani: yes, the team already tested on it a few weeks ago. Runs smoothly one bug so far. Browser widget works despite new browser (Edge)
    • Martin (added after the meeting): A CDT update is needed to keep the Terminal from hanging (see bug 474327, will release with Mars.1). Got some duplicates already. Workaround is switch the Win10 Console to "Legacy Mode".
  • Dani would like to get plan feedback by Friday EOD

August 5, 2015 - McQ, John, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • PC meeting later today (planning calendar, calling SR1/2 "Update 1/2" instead
    • adding another release before Christmas might be a next step - even if Platform contributes identical bits
  • Dani: Eclipse/Mars Retrospective
    • Move more components to Tycho build? (Would still need Ant to test against final build/bits)
    • Contribution Review Dates: joined by some components but not all
    • Error Reporter: Interesting to look at top ten but the sheer number is too big
      • John - based on Orion experience with similar error reporting :
        • Looking at changes in reported issues is more interesting than looking at reports themselves
        • Reports help getting contributions (But, Dani finds that "just adding a null check" is often not what's desired for Java .. though helpful for Javascript)
  • Dani: Foundation IP team doesn't require updating copyright notices per contribution any more (since that information is in git anyways)
    • The Project has to agree
    • Some contributors like to have their name in the source -- that's OK, no requirement to remove author information, but no requirement to add either
    • Won't remove existing lists (they never claimed to be complete, since there always was the "...and others" copyright notice
    • Dani to sent request for voting
  • Dani: Switching to Jetty 9.3.x (which requires JRE 8)
    • JRE 8 from Oracle (and also from IBM) exists for all Reference Platforms
    • Except Solaris, because we only support Solaris 32-bit and the JRE only exists as 64-bit
    • But the Plan for Neon is to have 64-bit Solaris support
    • New Language features in Java 8 are adopted, contributors would like to start using Java 8
    • McQ: In the past, staying on older Java was desired to enable more widespread use ... today, this argument does not seem valid any more, in fact likely more contributions / community is enabled by moving to Java 8
    • Dani: Only concern is some "non reference" Platforms like HP-UX might not have JREs initially; but that's OK as long as the reference platforms are good
    • AGREEMENT to move to JRE 8 and allow projects to use Java 8 in their code.
  • Dani: Looking for a contributor for SWT improvements for GTK3
  • Martin: libwebkitgtk-3 on Ubuntu 14 forcing GTK 2 not working ?
    • Alex: Using libwebkitgtk-4 which is much more stable, but not implementing the full SWT API
    • Most distros don't ship libwebkit for gtk-2 any more since it's not supported upstream any more and has many security issues
  • Alex: Build SWT at the Foundation
    • Work with the Foundation going well, expect to have RHEL machines deployed at the foundation next month


July 15, 22 and 29, 2015 -- no meeting

July 8, 2015 - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Alex

  • John: Cross-Language Tooling Discussion on the eclipse.org-architecture-council and ide-dev mailing lists
  • decided to cancel the upcoming July meetings

July 1, 2015 -- no meeting

June 24, 2015 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Java 9 - <a href="http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/eclipse-java%E2%84%A2-9-support-beta-mars">EAR Feature Patch</a> on the Marketplace NOW
    • No JARs any more - JRE is doing things internally using "jimage" format; updated search etc to create projects and work against them
    • If the Jimage filesystem provider isn't backported, one has to run the IDE on Java9 in order to code Java9
    • Modules are just a list of packages (and can refer to other modules) - no real JSR describing the plan yet - seems like just a replacement of "Profiles" (and JARs)

June 17, 2015 - Dani, John, Martin, Alex

June 10, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: 4.5RC4 looking good, no more fixes planned
  • Dani: Working on Java 9 feature patch
  • Alex: PC discussing a change in the release train
    • Current common ground seems to be a request for more release points, and projects could decide whether they do features or maintenance
    • From Platform point of view, stability is key. Some key contributors not interested doing
    • Martin: How to also cater to contributors who want their contributions released soon ?
      • Martin Idea: With Tycho, building the Platform is easier so ask contributors build themselves
      • Or, open up a new "experimental" stream ?
      • Dani Idea: Market milestone builds differently, as "fully consumable" would serve the same purpose
  • Martin: Tested eclipse-installer (Oomph), looking really really good now

June 3, 2015 - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ, John

  • Dani: Mars Endgame
  • Dani: Please vote for release review

May 20, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Dani: Security Update - Platform work done, Orbit updated, reached out to Wayne and other affected projects.
  • Dani: RC2 Build - too many bugs assigned, Lars on Vacation, Dani will fill in
  • McQ: Too Many Platforms Built? - Who's really hurt by "too many builds" ?
    • Will meet with Mike & Foundation tomorrow, Alex is also interested (Dani to check).

May 13, 2015 - McQ, John, Alex, Martin

  • John, Dani - Mars Endgame looking good
  • Alex - bug 465874 Lucene 5 looking good, almost done - Ready to commit as soon as CQs are in and Mars+1 is open
  • JDT for Java 9 - will need a wider discussion with EMO on make it easier to publish the work, e.g. in normal builds

May 6, 2015 - McQ, Dani, Martin, John

  • Dani: Java 9 timing - slight delay
  • Dani: RC1 preps
    • 2-day test pass went fine - 2 severe issues found, will be addressed
    • Request to watch PMC mailing list for API exceptions and defect approvals
  • John: PC Discussion on Release Cycles
    • Multiple releases per year PLUS maintenance streams seems like overkill
    • Consider an approach like Orion that just moves constantly forward
    • Especially for the Platform, being rock solid is most important. Still to attract new contributors we need to allow more frequent "feature updates".
      • A model where both "stable/maintenance" _and_ "features" are contributed to the train might be too much work/overhead.
      • Consider a model like Ubuntu, ... with some release numbers being "stable/LTS base" and others being "in-between feature releases" ?
      • Consider a model like LTS for maintenance fixes / aside mainstream just moving forward ?


April 15, 2015 - Dani, John, McQ, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Java 1.7 Changes
    • Some bundles have been moved to a 1.7 BREE by new committers, even after API freeze
    • Rule has always been "we move up when there's a reason to move up". We won't move up without reason.
      • Dani: Moving the BREE may even cause API changes, so should only be done when incrementing the minor version (5% risk)
      • Alex: Such updates allow staying current and not get to "rewrite is needed" state (thus needed) but has to happen before M6 (API freeze)
    • Alex suggest not accepting additional changes, but not reverting either (to avoid churn)
  • Dani: Batik 1.6 update

April 8, 2015 - Dani, Martin, Alex, John, McQ

  • Dani: Batik - Platform is good, Train may need to update, perhaps updating one bundle only would suffice. John will follow up.
  • Alex: SWT for GTK 3 News
    • GTK port finally decoupled from X11 - it renders on Wayland now, can switch the renderer to a pure HTML one
    • This opens up opportunities (but depends on hosts that have GTK).


April 1, 2015 - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani (Regrets: John travelling)

  • Alex: GTK 3.16 seeing issues again - fixed some crashes, but scrolling is still entirely broken
    • SWT uses a number of things that GTK declares as "implementation detail"
  • PMC approval on piggyback CQ's (AC question forwarded by John)

March 18, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • John: EclipseCon - Bigger this year due to LocationTech (750 attendees)
    • Mark Reinhold keynote and "after-session" on Java 9
    • Much interest in Orion JS tooling / editor, also on desktop
    • Public face of Eclipse Platform at the conference was much more diverse than in the past (Lars Vogel, Max Anderson, Google ...)
  • Dani: bug 458730 Mars Plan Update
  • Dani: e4 project leadership approved by EMO
  • Dani: Szymon Brandys resigned as Platform/Resources co-lead. Need to +1 on the mailing list

March 11, 2015 - no meeting (EclipseCon)

March 4, 2015 - Dani, McQ, Martin, John

  • Dani: e4 leadership - Dani will volunteer to co-lead
  • Dani: BREEs - documentation about how to pick the EE
    • Recommending the "earliest generally supported JRE that provides the capabilities you need"
    • Would like an URL on the page pointing to the most recent plan (talking to Wayne)
  • John: greatfix contest
    • Dani: Working well - some very small contributions but some also very large (eg Customize Perspective fixes)
  • John: EclipseCon - numbers looking good; join Planning Council Breakfast as delegate for Dani

February 25, 2015 - Dani, Martin McQ

  • No topics

February 18, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Alex: Building Native Launchers
    • Current way of building is kinda unpredictable - even if getting some agreement on versions to use, results are kinda unpredictable
    • Pushing towards Hudson RHEL builders at least at the EF to get more transparency and automation - attempt to mimic the infrastructure at IBM
    • Looking at 3 primary architectures (at the EF) for Linux vs. secondary architectures (non-public builders potentially)
  • Dani: Great initiative, but other (non-EF) builders must not be broken
    • EF doesn't allow any commercial tools (but currently, e.g. Windows launchers are built with MSVS)
  • Alex is willing to spend time to get Linux builds running; but can't help with other architectures
    • Martin: great approach - for Windows, using a cross-compiler on Linux might be interesting (after Linux native works)
  • Alex: This is just phase one - getting rid of the binaries in git repos might be phase 2 (since the checked-in binaries easily cause inconsistencies between Java and Native side)
    • Martin: Checked-in binaries help consumers and contributors who just want to make a Java change
    • Dani: Checked-in binaries are also used for comparing build results for expected vs accidental changes
  • Alex: bug 459399 - Policy for recommended minimum execution environments for bundles
    • Dani: It works today
      • To run Eclipse, Java 8 or Java 9 can be used (minimum BREE has no impact)
      • To modify the source, a new JRE can be used but then the Execution Environment Descriptions need to be installed
    • Policy as discussed in the past: Each project can increase the BREE if there is a real need (such as generifying) and no upstream clients are broken
      • But don't change the BREE without justification -- changing the BREE always has some effect, such as new warnings that would need to be addressed
      • Suggested BREE for new bundles has already been changed by Lars
  • Alex: Even for bundles in "maintenance mode", old BREE causes issues for people who build from source (who have to change compilers etc)
  • No conclusion so far (Alex and Dani disagree)
  • Dani: e4 leadership
    • Mature bits being moved to Eclipse - e4 remaining as an incubator to keep alive for experiments with low entry barrier

February 11, 2015 - Dani, Alex

  • no topics

February 4, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin

January 28, 2015 - Dani, Alex, John

  • Dani: Switch Mac OS X 10.9 with 10.10 in Mars target environments
    • No objections
  • Alex: Looking for any Eclipse related activity @Fosdem

January 21, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Alex: Process for allowing non-committers extended bugzilla privileges (for bug triage)?
    • Dani: Yes a process exists. Send bugzilla username to Dani.
  • Alex: New resource for helping with SWT
  • Dani: Platform/UI co-lead
  • Dani: Solaris: Java 8 will only support 64 bits on both Intel and SPARC --> IBM SWT Team considering to invest in getting patches in for 64-bit Solaris

January 14, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • Dani: Update on Platform/UI Leadership: Daniel Rolka left IBM and for now has no time to contribute. He stepped down as co-lead and nominated Lars Vogel
  • Dani: Solaris x86 64-bit support - patches exist, but no machine available. No luck to get one from Oracle or via Eclipse Foundation. We will not support Solaris x86 64-bit unless someone makes a machine available

January 7, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • Dani: Platform/UI Leadership
  • John: Git security issue - pick up a patch for Jgit in the packages before SR2? - Mostly an EPP

Archive

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