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(Meeting Minutes)
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= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every wednesday at 10.30am EST'''.
+
The [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/team-leaders.php Eclipse Project PMC] has a weekly phone meeting '''every Tuesday at 11.00am EST'''.
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
  
'''March 4, 2015''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, John
+
'''June 14, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars
* Dani: '''e4 leadership''' - Dani will volunteer to co-lead
+
* McQ: '''Mattermost / Slack''' for communication
* Dani: '''BREEs''' - documentation about how to pick the EE
+
** not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
** Recommending the "earliest generally supported JRE that provides the capabilities you need"
+
* Lars: '''Master is Open'''
** Would like an URL on the page pointing to the most recent plan (talking to Wayne)
+
** Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
* John: '''greatfix contest'''
+
** Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
** Dani: Working well - some very small contributions but some also very large (eg Customize Perspective fixes)
+
** Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes ({{bug|360703}}) is open to improve that)
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - numbers looking good; join Planning Council Breakfast as delegate for Dani
+
** We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
 +
* Lars: '''Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ?''' - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
 +
* McQ: '''Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che''' (from [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ide-dev/ ide-dev] mailing list and {{bug|496114}})
 +
** The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
 +
** The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
 +
*** People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
 +
** The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
 +
** How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
 +
*** At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
 +
*** But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
 +
* Dani: '''What goes into the Neon Update Releases'''
 +
** as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
 +
** '''AI: Dani''' will prepare a note
 +
* Dani: '''Using Sound in Eclipse'''
 +
** Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see {{bug|496003}})
 +
** Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
 +
** Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
 +
** McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so '''that''' should really be leveraged
 +
** Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
 +
** Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
 +
** Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.
 +
 
 +
'''June 7, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex
 +
* no topics
 +
 
 +
'''May 31, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''IP Log'''
 +
** The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
 +
** In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
 +
* Dani: '''Release Review'''
 +
** Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
 +
* Dani: '''Update Jetty to 3.9.3'''
 +
** Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
 +
* Dani: '''RC4 Status Update'''
 +
** Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command
 +
 
 +
'''May 24, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin
 +
* Dani: '''IP Log Generator''' - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
 +
* Dani: '''Release Review''' - Deadline next week (June 2)
 +
* Dani: '''Deprecation Request from Brian'''
 +
** Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
 +
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date'''
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
 +
** Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
 +
** Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
 +
** This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
 +
* Dani: '''Neon Status'''
 +
** Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 25, 2015''' - Dani, Martin McQ
+
'''May 17, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex
* No topics
+
* Dani: '''{{Bug|475184}} Neon Plan Update 2'''
 +
** Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
 +
** SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
 +
*** Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
 +
**** Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
 +
*** Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
 +
** Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
 +
** '''AI Dani''' to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
 +
* Dani: '''Copyright End Date''' - EMO: To be decided per project
 +
** IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
 +
** Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
 +
*** gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
 +
** Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
 +
* Dani: '''Policy for Neon.Update Releases''' - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
 +
** Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
 +
** Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
 +
** Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - '''decision''': discuss feature by feature at PMC
 +
** Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
 +
** In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
 +
* Dani: '''Neon RC2 Builds Update'''
 +
** Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
 +
** Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
 +
** GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
 +
** Lars: {{bug|493477}} detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
'''May 10, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
* Alex: '''Building Native Launchers'''
+
* Dani: '''Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases'''
** Current way of building is kinda unpredictable - even if getting some agreement on versions to use, results are kinda unpredictable
+
** Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
** Pushing towards Hudson RHEL builders at least at the EF to get more transparency and automation - attempt to mimic the infrastructure at IBM
+
* Martin: '''RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2'''
** Looking at 3 primary architectures (at the EF) for Linux vs. secondary architectures (non-public builders potentially)
+
** GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
* Dani: Great initiative, but other (non-EF) builders must not be broken
+
*** Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
** EF doesn't allow any commercial tools (but currently, e.g. Windows launchers are built with MSVS)
+
** Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
* Alex is willing to spend time to get Linux builds running; but can't help with other architectures
+
*** Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
** Martin: great approach - for Windows, using a cross-compiler on Linux might be interesting (after Linux native works)
+
*** There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
* Alex: This is just phase one - getting rid of the binaries in git repos might be phase 2 (since the checked-in binaries easily cause inconsistencies between Java and Native side)
+
*** Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
** Martin: Checked-in binaries help consumers and contributors who just want to make a Java change
+
** Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
** Dani: Checked-in binaries are also used for comparing build results for expected vs accidental changes
+
*** Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
 +
*** Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)
  
* Alex: '''{{bug|459399}} - Policy for recommended minimum execution environments for bundles'''
+
<hr/>
** Dani: It works today
+
'''May 3, 2016''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ
*** To run Eclipse, Java 8 or Java 9 can be used (minimum BREE has no impact)
+
* [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02598.html Brian's request on the PMC list]
*** To modify the source, a new JRE can be used but then the Execution Environment Descriptions need to be installed
+
** McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
** Policy as discussed in the past: Each project can increase the BREE if there is a real need (such as generifying) and no upstream clients are broken
+
** Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
*** But don't change the BREE without justification -- changing the BREE always has some effect, such as new warnings that would need to be addressed
+
** Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...
*** Suggested BREE for new bundles has already been changed by Lars
+
** McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
* Alex: Even for bundles in "maintenance mode", old BREE causes issues for people who build from source (who have to change compilers etc)
+
** Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
* No conclusion so far (Alex and Dani disagree)
+
** '''ACTION''' McQ to -1 and argue why.
  
* Dani: '''e4 leadership'''
+
* Alex: '''Update on Accessibility'''
** Mature bits being moved to Eclipse - e4 remaining as an incubator to keep alive for experiments with low entry barrier
+
** broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
 +
** due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
 +
** Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
 +
*** and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
 +
** Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 11, 2015''' - Dani, Alex
+
'''April 26, 2016''' - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ
* no topics
+
* Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
 +
* Alex: '''Accessibility''' - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
 +
** Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
 +
** McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
 +
* Alex: '''Platform.ui generification of project'''
 +
** Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
 +
** McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
 +
** Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
 +
** Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
 +
** '''ACTION Alex''' to prepare a message for review and then send that.
 +
* Lars: '''Copyright discussion'''
 +
** Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
 +
** The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
 +
* Dani: '''Update on FEEP'''
 +
** Paul not reached out yet
 +
** A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
 +
* Dani: '''Update on M7'''
 +
** Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
 +
** Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full
 +
 
 +
<br/>
 +
'''April 19, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)
 +
* Dani: '''IP Stuff''' on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
 +
* Dani: '''FEEP''' discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
 +
** General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
 +
** Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
 +
** Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
 +
* Dani: '''All PMC please review and +1 API requests''' when you find time
 +
** McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
 +
* '''Reviews vs. Features'''
 +
** Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora
 +
 
 +
<br/>
 +
'''April 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex
 +
* Lars: '''Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement'''
 +
** [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=485257#c13 bug 485257_c13] EMO: All information is in the git repos
 +
** McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
 +
** Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
 +
** '''ACTION''' McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
 +
 
 +
* Lars: '''{{bug|490012}} Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE'''
 +
** Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
 +
** Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
 +
** Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
 +
** '''DECISION''' to get rid of the strict error per project.
 +
 
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|475934}} API Change on model processing order'''
 +
** Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
 +
** McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
 +
** McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
 +
*** Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
 +
*** Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
 +
*** Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
 +
** Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
 +
** '''DECISION''' to allow making the change and announce widely.
 +
 
 +
* Dani: '''FEEP and EMO Hiring Update'''
 +
** EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
 +
** Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
 +
** Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
 +
 
 +
* Dani: '''IDE-dev proposal'''
 +
** People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
 +
** Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
 +
*** McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
 +
*** OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''April 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars
 +
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
 +
** Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
 +
** Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
 +
** Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
 +
* Dani: '''Solaris 32-bit'''
 +
** Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
 +
** Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
 +
*** Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
 +
** McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
 +
* Dani: '''New Solstice Welcome'''
 +
** Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
 +
** Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
 +
** McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
 +
* Alex: '''FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)'''
 +
** "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
 +
*** Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
 +
*** It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
 +
*** McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
 +
** Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
 +
*** '''AI Dani''' send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
 +
*** '''AI Martin''' compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
 +
** Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
 +
** Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
 +
*** McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
 +
*** Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
 +
*** McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal '''Transparency''' on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
 +
*** McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
 +
**** Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: '''THIS''' is what the FEEP should have adressed !
 +
** Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
 +
** Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
 +
*** McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
 +
** Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
 +
* Lars '''Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy'''
 +
** Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).
  
'''February 4, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
<hr/>
* Alex: With GTK-3.15.[345] , Eclipse is entirely unusable
+
'''March 29, 2016''' - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex
** Alex has some dirty workarounds to make it start, but still many issues like trees not painted, ...
+
* Lars: '''PDE Build in Maintenance''' - Officially state this ?
** Crash on startup identified to be GTK bug. Fix to be released in 3.15.6 https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=edec64cda3d4518b4e87d5ea5d287d4570ba9933
+
** PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
* Dani: Working on Solaris 64-bit
+
** Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
 +
** McQ: '''DECISION''' Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
 +
* Lars: '''Integrate more projects into Platform UI?'''
 +
** Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
 +
** Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
 +
** Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
 +
** '''DECISION''' to not merge projects at this time.
 +
* Lars: '''Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list'''
 +
** McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
 +
** Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
 +
** Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. '''AI Dani''' notify mailing list.
 +
* Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
 +
** Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''March 22, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
 +
* Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
 +
* Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
 +
* Discussion about Che
 +
** McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
 +
** Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
 +
** McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?
  
'''January 28, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, John
 
* Dani: Switch Mac OS X 10.9 with 10.10 in Mars target environments
 
** No objections
 
* Alex: Looking for any Eclipse related activity @Fosdem
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''March 15, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* Dani: '''Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)'''
 +
* Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
 +
* McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
 +
* Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
 +
* Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
 +
** Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
 +
** Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
 +
** Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
 +
* VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
 +
** Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
 +
** Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)
  
'''January 21, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
'''March 8, 2016''' - No call
* Alex: '''Process for allowing non-committers extended bugzilla privileges (for bug triage)?'''
+
** Dani: Yes a process exists. Send bugzilla username to Dani.
+
* Alex: '''New resource for helping with SWT'''
+
* Dani: '''Platform/UI co-lead'''
+
* Dani: Solaris: Java 8 will only support 64 bits on both Intel and SPARC --&gt; IBM SWT Team considering to invest in getting patches in for 64-bit Solaris
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 14, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''March 1, 2016''' - Dani, Martin
* Dani: Update on Platform/UI Leadership: Daniel Rolka left IBM and for now has no time to contribute. He stepped down as co-lead and nominated Lars Vogel
+
* Dani OOO next week
* Dani: Solaris x86 64-bit support - patches exist, but no machine available. No luck to get one from Oracle or via Eclipse Foundation. We will not support Solaris x86 64-bit unless someone makes a machine available
+
* Alex: '''{{bug|179924}} SSH-agent authentication''' 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
 +
** Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
 +
** Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
 +
* EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.
 +
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''February 23, 2016''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''Mars.2 is on track'''
 +
* Dani: '''FEEP Update'''
 +
** EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
 +
* Dani: '''Update on Welcome'''
 +
** Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
 +
* McQ: '''Scrollbars on Windows''' and their appearance
 +
** Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
 +
** Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
 +
** McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
 +
** Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
 +
** Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
 +
** Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).
  
'''January 7, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 
* Dani: '''Platform/UI Leadership'''
 
* John: '''Git security issue''' - pick up a patch for Jgit in the packages before SR2? - Mostly an EPP
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
'''December 17, 2014''' - McQ, John, Dani
+
'''February 16, 2016''' - Alex, Dani, Martin
* Platform UI leadership to be discussed in the next PMC call
+
* no topics
* no call on December 24 and December 31
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''December 10, 2014''' - Alex, McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
 
* Dani: {{bug|427768}} Mickael (Red Hat) - Nested Project support contribution to Common Navigator to better support Maven projects
+
'''February 9, 2016''' - Alex, McQ, Dani
* Dani: Red Hat also will wants to contribute making the Import easier {{bug|421930}}. First in the e4 incubator.
+
* Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
** Just import from a folder, and contribute project configurators via extension point (e.g. detect POM files, Makefiles, ...)
+
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|466370}} Welcome Screen redesign
** McQ: Many complexities ... different users may want very different things to happen
+
* Dani: please take a look at {{bug|472614}} Smart Project Importer
*** McQ: Just point to a Git repo -- the Git repo has a little metadata file at the root which allows launching the apps that the repo had been intended for ... maybe just make the project tree(s) a little more self-describing
+
*** Is there a growing list of repos which already have that? - John: In the Java world, pom.xml is getting that ...
+
*** Alex: .doap getting this (at least for Apache and GNOME projects - specifies at least the languages used)
+
* Web IDEs : McQ and others gone through a lot of analysis of Web IDE's
+
** Cloud9 has a much larger set of starting points ; in terms of the underlying core structure, Orion (and also Jay) are more interesting
+
** Orion has an extremely lightweight plug-in model: pieces coming from all over the world may look like all running on the server - nice infrastructure for building Community around it
+
** Orion + Flux could be a rival for anything out there
+
** Orion continues to push on the Core Coding experience - Orion Editor is on par or better than most desktop editors
+
* Vision: See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-vision/msg00065.html Minutes on the platform-vision mailing list] ... Delivery will depend on people actually participating
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''December 3, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, John (McQ travelling)
+
 
* John: [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-vision/ Platform Vision] - How to turn that into actionable items, Wayne wants to present to the Board
+
'''February 2, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
* John: '''Performance tests''' running again since a couple weeks, now the graphs are also back again :)
+
* Dani: '''Foundation Hires''' - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
** See http://download.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/drops4/I20141202-0800/performance.php
+
* Dani: '''Neon M5''' went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
** Results are there but fingerprints currently missing
+
* Dani: '''CQ Deadline''' on Feb.12 for Neon
** Baseline is 4.4.0 at the moment (consider comparing against 3.x at some point)
+
* Dani: {{bug|486647}} for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
** John: From experience, a single result isn't helpful, there's often weird anomalies from build to build ... need to look at trends over multiple builds, thus the graphs are really useful
+
** With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
 +
** Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
 +
*** Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
 +
*** We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
 +
*** Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
 +
** Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''November 26, 2014''' - Alex, Dani
+
'''January 26, 2016''' - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars
* No relevant topics / decisions
+
* Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
 +
* Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
 +
* Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''November 19, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, Dani  (''McQ and John had issues dialing in'')
+
'''January 19, 2016''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
* Dani: '''Jetty 9''' - Upgrade has been done, but new versions coming out ... will probably update from Jetty 9.2.3 to Jetty 9.2.5. Probably 9.3
+
* Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
** WTP interested in newer Jetty version ... need to agree on a common version across the Release Train.
+
* Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
** Alex: New Jetty JSP compiler failing ... filed a bug, will want this fixed (Jetty working on it)
+
** Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
* Dani: '''{{bug|179924}} Request for ssh-agent''' - patch against Team from YMNK (JSch Committer)
+
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''PDE Build''' - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
** egit would contribute the agent, but would make more sense putting it in Platform (+1 from Martin, no objection from Alex)
+
** Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement '''in the Platform'''
* Equinox Declarative Services implementation - ProSyst stopped providing fixes, not responsive any more
+
** Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
** New specificiation (R6) from OSGi adding lot of features, cannot risk staying behind
+
** Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
** Suggestion to remove the ProSyst stuff and replace it with the Apache Felix implementation (used by IBM / WebSphere and others)
+
** Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
** Martin: How mature / stable is the Felix code ? Can we influence it ?
+
* Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
*** Dani: Very mature. Have more influence on Felix than on the Prosyst stuff ... through the IBM committers and others.
+
** Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
*** Alex agrees. Using some parts of Felix already.
+
* SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
* John (via Dani): '''Move e4 into Platform/UI''' - would like to start the review process next week.
+
* Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
 +
** Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
 +
* Martin: '''Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?'''
 +
** Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
 +
** Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
 +
*** Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
 +
** Debian or SuSE should be OK;
 +
** Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''November 5, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
+
'''January 12, 2016''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
* Eclipse Foundation greatbugs initiative - call into PMC
+
* Dani: '''Upstaffing the PMC'''
* Dani: EclipseCon Europe Report - met lot of people, best attended EclipseCon Europe ever :)
+
** Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
** IOT; IDE in the Web; are people moving away from Eclipse before the transition to Web can be completed ?
+
* Dani: '''Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng''' - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
* Alex: Discussion with Christian Campo on scaling up
+
* Dani: {{bug|485429}} '''Remove PDE Build from our drops?'''
** Should better go into SWT ... but SWT has a reputation that it's hard getting a change in -- people prefer re-doing things their own than contributing :(
+
** Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
** Alex thinks this problem doesn't exist any more ... but how to fight this misconception ?
+
** McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
** John: Getting a change in may now be hard due to other reasons, eg lack of experienced committers
+
** Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
** Alex: Consider voting in new committers more easily if somebody is interested ?
+
* Dani: {{bug|485257}} '''Copyright Policy Change''' - waiting on EMO/Legal input
* Alex: Difference between Eclipse and the Linux Foundation
+
* Alex: '''Updating SWT to Java7'''
** Linux Foundation doesn't provide anything that anybody can use directly (just a source tarball) --&gt; all users become "contributors" of some sort
+
* McQ: '''Travel for EclipseCon'''
** This leads to different expectations and has a number advantages (eg issues are reported to and worked on by member companies only)
+
  
'''October 22, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, John
+
<hr/>
* Platform plan update nearly done, will be released soon
+
'''January 5, 2016''' - McQ, Dani
* Orion release review is ongoing, release will be next week
+
* Dani: '''PMC Membership'''
* Brief discussion of new bug reporting tool and related bug [https://dev.eclipse.org/recommenders/committers/dashboard/#/dashboard/temp/e6leTB3gQy-zUZI-73KtRQ dashboard]
+
* PMC called '''canceled''' next week due to EclipseCon Europe
+
  
'''October 1, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ
+
<hr/>
* Dani - In touch with Oracle regarding Solaris x86
+
'''December 15, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
* McQ - '''Platform UI''' tension between making Platform UI as stable as possible, versus new features
+
* No calls until Jan.5
** Community forming for new contributions - that's great! - But takes committer's time; committers reduced to "productize and fix" is problematic
+
* Looking for a new PMC member
** how to get more contributions for bug fixes ?
+
*** Alex: What about saying "This release we only accept bug fixes" ? Or for some milestone, eg after M4 only accept bug fixes ?
+
*** Dani: Sounds great, but will the Community accept that ? - JDT BugBash did not work that well...
+
*** Dani to prepare a draft message
+
* Dani was in Bangalore - talked to Arun - good collaboration with Alex
+
** Hard to get new SWT developers (Sami moving away on RH side)
+
** Ideas to keep SWT relevant ... eg generate Browser based things
+
*** GTK3 supports running in a browser now... (just one label for now, but an interesting approach)
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 24, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, John, Martin
+
'''December 8, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, John, Dani
* John: '''SWT Binaries Repository''' has got too big
+
* Discussed {{bug|483803}} regarding the BREE for org.eclipse.core.jobs.
** Will prune old versions out of the git repository (which is only used internally) - "Release" drops will still be available from release builds.
+
** PMC decided to move it back to JavaSE-1.7 but keep databinding on JavaSE-1.8
** '''DECISION:''' OK to prune.
+
* Dani: Reminder: {{bug|475185}} Plan Update 1 - Due with Neon M4 next week
* '''SWT master still has sources for old Platforms''' like carbon and motif - cluttering up the source code
+
** '''DECISION:''' OK to remove references - source would remain in git for old branches, but not be visible in master any more.
+
* Dani: '''p2 and Equinox''' - no sign-off for M2, leaders stepping down ?
+
** consider moving p2 back into Equinox, and probably Equinox back into the Eclipse project ?
+
** John: Equinox committers not really knowledgeable about p2 ... still, with less than 3 active committers a threshold is reached (can't hold elections any more)
+
** Still there's a couple of people contributing, so there are knowledgeable folk around
+
** Dani: If there's committers committing code, they should also be responsible for sign-off
+
* Dani: '''Java 7 and Jetty 9'''
+
** Been using Jetty 8 for a while, now, there is Community Pressure upgrading to Jetty 9 but that requires Java 7
+
** Java 6 no longer getting public updates since February 2013
+
** John:Adoptions needed in the Help System when moving to Jetty 9 ?
+
*** Alex don't think so - been shipping Jetty 9 for over a year already; only required changing some dependencies.
+
*** '''ACTION ITEM: Alex offered to check this'''
+
* Alex: '''Drop all the Java 6 Platforms from the list of Reference Platforms?'''
+
** '''DECISION:''' Yes this needs to be done. Trying to support Java 6 won't buy any benefit at this point.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 17, 2014''' - no meeting
+
'''December 1, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani
 +
* McQ: The new 5-Dollar Raspberry Pi and Orion (Java server works just fine on the Pi2).
 +
** Node server is a bit smaller but single-user and no git - nice for developing node apps though
 +
* Dani: '''Mars.2 Endgame Plan sent'''
 +
* Dani: {{bug|475185}} Plan Update 1 - Due with Neon M4 next week
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 10, 2014''' - John, Martin, Alex, Dani
+
'''November 25, 2015''' - McQ, Martin, Alex
* John: Mars having some build hickups due to removing Mac 32-bit builds
+
* Alex: '''Bumping SWT to Java8'''
* John: Luna SR1 - almost done, respinning for 2 bugs in Equinox
+
** Lars wants to use Lambdas {{bug|481195}}; Markus keller wants static helper methods;
* John: Cloud TLP (for Orion and others) - still on track for announcing end October
+
** Stephan Herrmann - University Research for Thread safety through typed annotations
* Alex: Been busy with other stuff recently, back on the GTK version support discussion this week
+
*** Are they ready to contribute? - Probably yes, needs to be clarified; having better dev support for Thread Safety will be a huge help
** Martin: Many people will know what distro they have (or need), but not what GTK they have on there
+
*** Dani: Thinks that going to Java8 feels a bit early for SWT, which is at the bottom of the technology stack ... would prefer 1 year later
*** John: Also running GTK on AIX, Solaris, Linux Power and other which are not moving up that fast...
+
*** John: Lambda support doesn't necessarily require SWT to be Java 8 itself (it could just be more lambda friendly)
*** Martin: Examples: RHEL 5.8 was GTK 2.10.4-21 ; RHEL 4.5 was at GTK 2.4.13-22
+
**** Won't help with base listeners, but probably with mouse events and related .. follow up in the bugreport
*** Popular distros would be Ubuntu LTS, RHEL, OpenSUSE
+
**** Labdas are more than syntactic sugar, it's more efficient ... still there is more value in Thread safety annotations
** Alex: Newer distros have up to 3 GTK versions installed, along with some means to switch between them, it's very confusing
+
*** McQ: Assumes there would be an extensive discussion on cross-project anyways ... but there is evidence now we could get value from doing this.
** Eclipse is the only project that dynamically loads DLL's and tries to support a broad range ... others typically compile against a specific version
+
* Dani: '''Update on Move of platform.text'''
*** Most projects require GTK 2.24
+
** Approval from IP, will soon move to platform.ui - will keep platform.text bugzilla.
** John: GTK versions are not really predictable ... between 3.04 and 3.10 there was a breaking change
+
* John: '''FEEP'''
** Alex: In every release there are small issues that we work around; and there's certain releases that are breaking stuff
+
** As discussed on the [[Architecture Council]]
** '''NEXT ACTION: Send E-Mail'''
+
* McQ: '''Platform Support'''
 +
** Many Platforms are not really active - IBM keeps alive some of them, for example RHEL4
 +
** Recent mailinglist asking for Mac 32bit, have we done enough on announcements ?
 +
** '''Agreement''' there's no case for catering more to people who don't read announcements and follow the project. Having a mailinglist ask once in a while is OK.
 +
** Dani: Planning Update for Neon / M4 - please comment on the bug.  
 +
*** John: Plan document is not really exhaustive on the oldest working Platform - RHEL4 surely won't work in Neon.
 +
** Alex: Consider a "Build your Own" approach for the more obscure Platforms? - Frees us from keeping older binaries in sync
 +
*** Did that for ARM32 and ARM64 in master - can build by just calling maven
 +
*** McQ: Who would ever validate that scripts are still valid... (Linux community: provides no binaries at all, who validates?)
 +
*** Alex: Providing scripts is a lot less work than providing stable and widely compatible binaries (about 1/3 of the work)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 3, 2014''' - John, Alex, Dani
+
'''November 18, 2015''' - Alex, John, Dani
* Dani: away next week and on/off the next two weeks due to travel
+
* Dani: EclipseCon NA 2016 submission from our team:
* Dani: RC4 next week. PMC please watch the PMC mailing list
+
** https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2016/session/scaling-eclipse-high-dpi-dots-inch-monitors-challenges-and-solutions
** John: will be available and monitor the mailing list
+
** https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2016/session/java-9-support-eclipse
* Dani: Oracle interested in providing access to a Solaris 64-bit machine {{bug|442266}}
+
* John: mentioned FEEP
* John: How/where to graduate the e4 tools
+
** Alex has concerns that there's not an equal opportunity for everyone
** the community wants to graduate this out of incubation
+
* Alex: new Lucene version: would like to put it in
** initially proposed to create a separate project, but feels like adding too much overhead
+
** cross-projects has already been asked and we got no negative vote
** John: proposed PDE as home, then Dani suggested to use Platform UI
+
** CQs are approved
** Alex, Dani and John agree to suggest Platform UI as home for the e4 tools.
+
** seems to be blocked by Orbit
** John to send a note to Lars
+
** ==> Alex to find out why and report back next week in the PMC call
* Alex: Limit supported number of GTK+ versions
+
** SWT currently has to support over 20 different version. This doesn't scale.
+
** Proposal: Bump min supported version with one minor release each release. Aka Luna has Gtk 2.10 as min, Mars would have 2.12 as min. Can consider even two minor releases (Mars requires 2.14) as this would keep the amount of supported versions the same as GTK releases one minor release every 6 months.
+
** Dani, John: this is too limiting. We tended to support the most possible. Newest versions might have too many bugs.
+
** All agree: we'd like to limit the amount of supported versions
+
** Alex to cast a poll via Eclipse Foundation, which versions are used by users and companies
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
'''August 27, 2014''' - cancelled
+
'''November 11, 2015''' - McQ, John, Dani
 +
* Discussed new meeting time that works for Martin
 +
** John to send a note that proposes Tuesday, 11:00 EST / 17:00 CET (starting in two weeks)
 +
* John: Alex mentioned at EclipseCon that there's no one in SWT team overlooking cross-platform, e.g. to craft new APIs
 +
** owning one platform is a full-time job
 +
** would need another person in SWT
 +
** for now one of the two co-leads needs to own that task - Dani to talk to Pradeep and the co-leads
 +
* John to Dani: how was EclipseCon
 +
** Dani: Great! Lots of talking to people; spent quite some time at the Hackathon; only saw 4 talks
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
'''August 20, 2014''' - John, Alex, Dani
+
'''October 28, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
* Dani: new platform PowerPC 64-bit LE {{bug|441358 }}
+
* Dani: Discuss new meeting time that works for Martin
** maintained by IBM
+
** decided that John will send out a doodle poll
** will be added to 4.4.1 as early access
+
* Dani: Discuss our position regarding the removal of committer emeritus ({{bug|480670}})
** Dani to send a note to cross-platform
+
** everyone agreed that we would like to keep this for the following reasons:
* Dani: individual made patches to support Solaris 64-bit {{bug|442266}}
+
*** it is a good way reward those committers who invested lots of their time and made significant contributions to a project
** we'd like to add it but don't have a machine to support it
+
*** it makes no sense to remove something that currently works and ask projects to maintain this on their website
** important because our current 32-bit Solaris build will become obselete since there's no 32-bit JRE for Java 7 and beyond
+
** we have to make sure that the emeritus list doesn't get stale
** Oracle should be interested since they provide both, Java and Solaris
+
** Dani to ask Oracle
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
'''August 13, 2014''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
+
'''October 21, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
* Dani: Any feedback for the [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_5.xml Mars plan]?
+
* Dani: so far no negative vote in the vote to move platform.text into platform.ui
 +
* McQ: Martin can no longer join, McQ would like to move the meeting
 +
** detailed several alternatives but no fit yet
 +
** decided to continue the discussion in our next meeting
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
 
 +
'''October 14, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
 +
* Dani: Community asked to move platform.text into platform.ui (see [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-text-dev/msg00484.html https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-text-dev/msg00484.html])
 +
** 3 solutions:
 +
*** make the move
 +
*** make a more radical move to merge everything into 'Platform'
 +
*** leave things as is and let new people join platform.text
 +
** McQ: merging everything together is not an option. Skills are too different. Resources, Debug and SWT need to be kept separate.
 +
** Dani: fine with the move as long as it does not serve as argument to merge everything into one pot
 +
** Alex: committers need to accept the move
 +
** PMC decision: OK with the move but Dani to ask the platform.text and platform.ui committers whether they are both OK with it. Dani to become co-lead of Platform UI
 +
 
 +
* John from Board Meeting: Eclipse Foundation wants to change perception that Eclipse is just an IDE. Therefore they would like to change the name of our project ("Eclipse").
 
** McQ:
 
** McQ:
*** It does not cover Orion, but that is OK and like in previous release plans. Orion will most likely be moved to another top-level project soon.
+
*** this will not be for free. The name is used at many places (code, webpage, Help) and also by companies in their marketing
*** We want to remove Mac OS X Universal 32-bit (all agreed)
+
*** maybe we just have to accept we made a mistake in the beginning and now live with it
* Dani: How to deal with requests to push our bundles to repo.eclipse.org {{bug|441530}}
+
*** can't think of a good name - which indicates we shouldn't change it ("Platform" is not good and "Eclipse SDK" or "Eclipse IDE" hide that it is the base for "RCP" apps)
** Dani: OK for me but we won't do the work
+
** decided to talk about this again in the next call
** Alex: Maven needs the dependencies in the pom.xml. We don't want copy them from the manifest into the pom.xml and then maintain this. The pom should be updated when publishing the file into the Maven repo. Ideally by an automated task.
+
** Conclusion: all agree with this, i.e. we won't do the actual work and we won't "pollute" our pom files.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 6, 2014''' - McQ, Dani
 
* Dani: Will provide initial Mars plan next week
 
  
 +
'''October 7, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani, Martin
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|108668}} Default Text Encoding UTF-8 ?'''
 +
** On Linux and Mac, the Platform encoding is UTF-8 ; on Windows it's Cp1252 in most countries around the globe, even with Windows 10
 +
** Using the Platform encoding ensures interoperability with all local tools (editors, compilers, ...)
 +
*** '''Desire for UTF-8 only for Windows exchanging files with users on other systems'''
 +
*** '''Changing the encoding of an existing workspace after the fact is a no go''' (risk of data corruption when loading/saving a file, some encodings are lossy)
 +
*** '''Using an encoding different than the OS encoding is problematic too''' (risk of data corruption when importing or D&D files from the OS)
 +
** Proposal 1: UTF-8 on new empty workspaces on Windows ? --&gt; Might mean that external tools don't work as expected
 +
** Proposal 2: Make users aware (Restore Oomph Welcome, which was disabled via {{bug|459486}}) ? --&gt; But many users don't understand implications, other tools also don't do this
 +
** Proposal 3: Ask for encoding when team-sharing since only team-shared projects cause issues (eg EGit hook) ? --&gt; But on "push" it may be too late
 +
** Martin: Encoding describes content, so should be managed with the content (as a project setting)
 +
*** '''--&gt; Proposal 4: Move to a model where we encourage setting the project-level encoding preference'''
 +
**** When creating a project, set the workspace default on project level automatically --&gt; ensures that projects remain sane over their lifetime
 +
**** For projects lacking the project-level preference, introduce a Problem Marker (Warning) with quick fix to either UTF-8 or workspace default
 +
** '''Decision:'''
 +
*** '''We won't change the workspace default''' -- no use breaking existing users
 +
*** '''We'll set the project encoding pro-actively'''
 +
** Open questions:
 +
*** Do we need tooling to convert project from encoding A to encoding B (if project preference was set incorrectly initially) ?
 +
*** Shall we try setting source encoding on drag-and-drop, or shall the project dictate the policy ?
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''No meetings in July'''
+
'''September 30, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Dani
 +
* Dani: will send a note to PMC list asking to approve new Debug leadership (Sarika)
 +
* Dani: we should finalize our API removal discussion from last week
 +
** agreed that APIs marked for removal have to be annotated with @noreference, @noextend and @noimplement
 +
** agreed that components should be allowed to remove API but they have to provide good reasons
 +
** agreed that we won't allow to delete APIs simply because they are deprecated
 +
** agreed that the PMC will decide case by case i.e. there will be no general rule
 +
** regarding version numbering we decided to also decide this case by case
 +
** Dani to update the removal document and have it reviewed by the PMC
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
 
 +
'''September 23, 2015''' - Dani, John, Alex, Martin
 +
* Dani: '''JDT Core''' - Co-lead going to step up
 +
* Dani: '''API Removal Discussion'''
 +
** Q1: When do we actually delete API? What's the benefit compared to the pain that we cause ?
 +
*** Example of methods that don't do anything any more or do wrong things -- those should be removed
 +
*** Example TableTreeViewer : Continue having the API doesn't hurt, there's no significant benefit removing it
 +
**** Alex: TableTree was completely broken on GTK for 2-3 years ... keeping such components that don't work properly lowers the quality
 +
**** Dani: Is there actual proof of bugs ? Or could it be working fine on Windows RCP ? If it's deprecated, people use it at own risk; do we really need to break them, if it provides value to some people on some Platforms ?
 +
**** John: In TableTreeViewer case, EMF had some generic code (was unclear if the path was ever taken) and CDT could update easily
 +
*** '''Summary''': scheduling for removal is OK with good arguments. Give Adopters a chance to respond before removal takes place.
 +
 
 +
** Q2: '''How to deal with the versions?'''
 +
*** Dani: Updating the major causes major pain on everyone (adoption work), so this should be avoided
 +
**** Actively developed plugins will notice source breakage when recompiling anyways -- no need to update the major for them.
 +
**** For dormant plugins (not recompiled), everyone will break when updating the major although only few may be affected - is it worth notifying those small percentage that might break ?
 +
**** Plugins who don't care recompiling may have to live with ClassNotFoundException
 +
**** Tooling exists: API Use Scan Tools can discover incorrect API references that are not announced by the versions
 +
*** '''Summary:''' Handle the Major with care -- in most cases, the cost of updating the major is not justified by the benefit.
 +
 
 +
** John: '''Announcement''' When thinking about removing something, we should announce that far and wide and ask for feedback
 +
*** Martin: But which channel is as effective as actually removing it ? There's always who don't actually listen...
 +
*** John: Still, giving a possibility to listen is important. Agree that mentioning in the release docs is not enough.
 +
*** Dani: When making a release, also send message with a link to the removals page (for all removals that are planned)
 +
** John: Mechanisms for maintaining binary compatibility while only breaking source compatibility (but it's a lot of work!)
 +
*** Dani: Agree, in this case better just leave it in there
 +
 
 +
** Alex: What to do next time, can we remove more stuff ?
 +
*** Martin: Should be at the discretion of the committers. They do the work. If they see the need for removal, they should be allowed to do so (as long as they play by the rules, like early announcement). Need to define what the rules are.
 +
 
 +
** John: There was an interesting discussion on cross-project, asking for well-known points in time where major breakage can occur
 +
*** Eg release but without all the deprecated at certain well-known point in time eg every 3-5 years
 +
*** '''AI''' ''continue that discussion on the Architecture Council''
 +
 
 +
** '''Summary:''' Essentially do what we did, plus more communication upfront, allow people to respond before deletion happens (to avoid churn)
 +
*** Committers still need to be able to delete stuff when they find it necessary.
 +
*** Updating the major (or not) to be decided case by case, but in many cases "breaking everyone" is not justified against "notifying few dormant plugins".
 +
 
 +
* Alex: '''Bumping the minimum GTK version again''' (may cause issues on Platforms like AIX -- to be discussed when it's time)
  
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Jun 4, 2014''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex
+
'''September 16, 2015''' - John, Martin
* Dani: '''RC4 Status''' looking good
+
* John: '''API Removal Discussion'''
** 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
+
** No urgency now -- changes have been reverted for now, and scheduled for 2017
** Rest of the team working on docs
+
** Updating the major of a bundle knowingly breaks everyone/most adopters
** Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
+
*** In the past, breaking changes have often been small enough to work without increasing the major
* John: '''Went over the N&N''' ... number of things went in after M7 :)
+
*** One can argue that removing TableTreeViewer is big enough to warrant updating the major
** Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way
+
** Versioning packages has not been done in the past due to the huge upcoming maintenance effort when starting to do so
 +
** "Release Version" is decoupled from "bundle versions" already (and may move to date-based versions eg "2016.1" with rolling updates moving forward
 +
** --&gt; will have more discussion next week
  
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''September 9, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John, McQ
 +
* John: '''Planning Council Updates'''
 +
** 4 planned releases (March, June, September, December -- essentially end of each quarter) with flexible contents
 +
** Mid December rather than end to avoid churn, so this one is a little shorter
 +
** Only June is "major" - allowing to drop off, or breaking changes; others are "minor"
 +
** McQ want to reduce the number of simultaneous streams -- if "master" is more stable more often that's OK, but avoid too many "live" streams
 +
 +
* Software is getting more important - would be good to better support multicore
 +
 +
* John: '''IntelliJ change in licensing / sales model'''
 +
** Many eclipse-positive comments on the announcement blog
 +
** Possibility putting Money on Eclipse Development may become interesting for companies in this context
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Jun 11, 2014''' - Martin, McQ, Alex, John
+
'''September 2, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
* John: Eclipse Theming: When switching the OS Theme to dark, Eclipse should be aware
+
* Dani: '''EclipseDay India''' on Saturday, 200 attendees wanted to join, hat to cut to 150
** Dark Theme is currently a tech preview
+
** Keynote by Mike Milinkovich - large Community
  
 +
* Dani: '''Policy for and Mars.2'''
 +
** Do we want to stick to the "Service" model or allow feature updates ?
 +
** Mars.1 winding down -- sticking to "Critical Fixes Only" for that
 +
** Too much in the maintenance stream causes risk of defocus ... are there relevant features that are worth the extra effort ?
 +
** Dani: Suggests to require PMC Approval for adding a feature in - example candidate: Improvements for HiDPI
 +
*** Also: What about version number (2nd digit version update), IP disclosures, Translations ... ?
 +
*** Dani would suggest sticking to 3rd digit update only in the marketing release number; but a Release Review would be needed
 +
 +
'''August 26, 2015''' -
 +
* Dani/Alex/Martin can't join (traveling)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''Jun 4, 2014''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex
+
'''August 19, 2015''' - Alex, Dani
* Dani: '''RC4 Status''' looking good
+
* nothing to discuss
** 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
+
** Rest of the team working on docs
+
** Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
+
* John: '''Went over the N&N''' ... number of things went in after M7 :)
+
** Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way
+
  
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''August 12, 2015''' - John, Dani
 +
* John asked whether we run on Windows 10
 +
** Dani: yes, the team already tested on it a few weeks ago. Runs smoothly one bug so far. Browser widget works despite new browser (Edge)
 +
** ''Martin (added after the meeting): A CDT update is needed to keep the Terminal from hanging (see {{bug|474327}}, will release with Mars.1). Got some duplicates already. Workaround is switch the Win10 Console to "Legacy Mode".''
 +
* Dani would like to get plan feedback by Friday EOD
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 28, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
+
'''August 5, 2015''' - McQ, John, Dani, Alex, Martin
* Dani: '''EOL'ing the Delta Pack''' - announce now, remove during Mars - it's been obsoleted by p2 functionality
+
* PC meeting later today (planning calendar, calling SR1/2 "Update 1/2" instead
** Alex: Some of the test suite relied on the delta pack, it caused issues, OK with removing (PDE tests would need to be cleaned up)
+
** adding another release before Christmas might be a next step - even if Platform contributes identical bits
* Dani: '''Copyright Updates''' - tool is very slow since not ported from CVS properly, can run for hours
+
 
** John: Worth doing periodically but probably won't matter legally since copyright lasts for 7 years
+
* Dani: '''[[Eclipse/Mars Retrospective]]'''
** The change is not without risk (Dani: Could schedule after the release)
+
** Move more components to Tycho build? (Would still need Ant to test against final build/bits)
** McQ: Should consider updating the tool as part of that work
+
** Contribution Review Dates: joined by some components but not all
** Alex: Has a new intern, could use this as an opportunity to join
+
** Error Reporter: Interesting to look at top ten but the sheer number is too big
* Dani: '''RC3 status''' - last planned build - looking good, except for Platform UI, where the list of bugs is still long
+
*** John - based on Orion experience with similar error reporting :
* McQ: Discussions about a new Eclipse.org Web-based Toplevel Project
+
**** Looking at changes in reported issues is more interesting than looking at reports themselves
 +
**** Reports help getting contributions (But, Dani finds that "just adding a null check" is often not what's desired for Java .. though helpful for Javascript)
 +
 
 +
* Dani: Foundation IP team doesn't require updating copyright notices per contribution any more (since that information is in git anyways)
 +
** The Project has to agree
 +
** Some contributors like to have their name in the source -- that's OK, no requirement to remove author information, but no requirement to add either
 +
** Won't remove existing lists (they never claimed to be complete, since there always was the "...and others" copyright notice
 +
** Dani to sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02422.html request for voting]
 +
 
 +
* Dani: Switching to '''Jetty 9.3.x (which requires JRE 8)'''
 +
** JRE 8 from Oracle (and also from IBM) exists for all Reference Platforms
 +
** Except Solaris, because we only support Solaris 32-bit and the JRE only exists as 64-bit
 +
** But the Plan for Neon is to have 64-bit Solaris support
 +
** New Language features in Java 8 are adopted, contributors would like to start using Java 8
 +
** McQ: In the past, staying on older Java was desired to enable more widespread use ... today, this argument does not seem valid any more, in fact likely more contributions / community is enabled by moving to Java 8
 +
** Dani: Only concern is some "non reference" Platforms like HP-UX might not have JREs initially; but that's OK as long as the reference platforms are good
 +
** '''AGREEMENT''' to move to JRE 8 and allow projects to use Java 8 in their code.
 +
 
 +
* Dani: Looking for a contributor for SWT improvements for GTK3
 +
 
 +
* Martin: '''libwebkitgtk-3 on Ubuntu 14 forcing GTK 2''' not working ?
 +
** Alex: Using libwebkitgtk-4 which is much more stable, but not implementing the full SWT API
 +
** Most distros don't ship libwebkit for gtk-2 any more since it's not supported upstream any more and has many security issues
 +
 
 +
* Alex: '''Build SWT at the Foundation'''
 +
** Work with the Foundation going well, expect to have RHEL machines deployed at the foundation next month
  
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 14, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
+
'''July 15, 22 and 29, 2015''' -- no meeting
* Alex: SWT GTK3 and the Endgame Rules
+
* Dani: Luna Plan Update
+
* John: New Dashboard created by the EMO
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 7, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, John, Martin
+
'''July 8, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Alex
* Martin {{bug|241957}} - GTK clipboard hang
+
* John: '''Cross-Language Tooling Discussion''' on the eclipse.org-architecture-council and ide-dev mailing lists
** Alex: GTK guys recommended using the async API, but no time for more investigation
+
* decided to cancel the upcoming July meetings
** McQ: Switching a sync API to async implementation underneath can be extremely messy (need to be aware of all possible events and event sources...)
+
** McQ: If there is an idea canceling the clipboard wait ... given that the issue occurs only rarely, even a hacky solution is better than nothing
+
* Dani: will do a plan update, hopefully this week
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 30, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
+
'''July 1, 2015''' -- no meeting
* McQ: '''WB4 perspective customization''' - has it caused any issues ?
+
** Martin: Dealing with detached views works differently (dragging a window fails - must drag the tab inside the window)
+
** Dani: Saved perspectives / windows are lost on an existing workspace when moving from 3.x to 4.x
+
*** Martin/McQ: When crossing the major version boundary, it is OK to lose state - it's not nice but acceptable
+
** Dani: The bigger problem is, that the whole "Perspective customization" dialog is still not working as expected
+
*** Martin: Agree with the concern, but the Perspective customization dialog wasn't ever great
+
*** McQ: If invest work here, rather make it good than bring back the previous status quo
+
*** Martin: Most customization done via plugin.xml / Java , don't expect end users to do a lot of customization themselves
+
* Dani: '''M7 status'''
+
** Defect triage under control - some items deferred to 4.5
+
  
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''June 24, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''Java 9''' - <a href="http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/eclipse-java%E2%84%A2-9-support-beta-mars">EAR Feature Patch</a> on the Marketplace NOW
 +
** No JARs any more - JRE is doing things internally using "jimage" format; updated search etc to create projects and work against them
 +
** If the Jimage filesystem provider isn't backported, one has to run the IDE on Java9 in order to code Java9
 +
** Modules are just a list of packages (and can refer to other modules) - no real JSR describing the plan yet - seems like just a replacement of "Profiles" (and JARs)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 23, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin
+
'''June 17, 2015''' - Dani, John, Martin, Alex
* Alex - GTK2 or GTK3 as default - GTK3 it is
+
* John: '''Mars''' Platform in good shape for Mars - EPP respin for Error Reporting
** GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to
+
* Dani: '''Crashes with Java 8''' - Potentially will add to the online README
*** xulrunner - latest version not supported by swt and latest distros don't even ship standalone xulrunner
+
** Happens in the JIT, with latest Oracle Java 8 (with 8 Cores and very specific circumstances)
*** webkitgtk - gtk2 version in maintenance mode, upstream consider dropping, really crashy See [https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-gtk/2014-March/001821.html]
+
** See {{Bug|465693}} - Probably https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8078262
** GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
+
* Alex: '''XDG Application''' - looks like Docker but a similar idea
** McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
+
** Environment description of the runtime - helps specifying the line-up of library versions that we test against and use
* Dani - '''Freeze Plan created'''
+
** Big part of GNOME / GTK already pushing for it, might make sense to consider alignment
* John - '''Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret'''
+
** GNOME working towards compiling with a really old compiler, such that the physically identical bits can run against a large set of distros
*  
+
** See https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps
 +
** But if you want to try it out please read https://blogs.gnome.org/alexl/2015/06/17/testing-rawhide-apps-using-xdg-app/
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 16, 2014''' - Dani, Alex
+
 
* no topics today
+
'''June 10, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* Dani: 4.5RC4 looking good, no more fixes planned
 +
* Dani: Working on Java 9 feature patch
 +
* Alex: PC discussing a change in the release train
 +
** Current common ground seems to be a request for more release points, and projects could decide whether they do features or maintenance
 +
** From Platform point of view, stability is key. Some key contributors not interested doing
 +
** Martin: How to also cater to contributors who want their contributions released soon ?
 +
*** Martin Idea: With Tycho, building the Platform is easier so ask contributors build themselves
 +
*** Or, open up a new "experimental" stream ?
 +
*** Dani Idea: Market milestone builds differently, as "fully consumable" would serve the same purpose
 +
* Martin: Tested eclipse-installer (Oomph), looking really really good now
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 9, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
+
'''June 3, 2015''' - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
* Dani - '''Kepler SR2 and Java 8'''
+
* Dani: '''Mars Endgame'''
** Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
+
* Dani: Please vote for release review
** Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
+
** Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
+
** Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
+
  
* John - '''Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions'''
+
<hr/>
** Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
+
'''May 20, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
** Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
+
* Dani: '''Security Update''' - Platform work done, Orbit updated, reached out to Wayne and other affected projects.
** Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
+
* Dani: '''RC2 Build''' - too many bugs assigned, Lars on Vacation, Dani will fill in
** Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches
+
* McQ: '''Too Many Platforms Built?''' - Who's really hurt by "too many builds" ?
 +
** Will meet with Mike & Foundation tomorrow, Alex is also interested (Dani to check).
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''May 13, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Martin
 +
* John, Dani - Mars Endgame looking good
 +
* Alex - {{bug|465874}} Lucene 5 looking good, almost done - Ready to commit as soon as CQs are in and Mars+1 is open
 +
* JDT for Java 9 - will need a wider discussion with EMO on make it easier to publish the work, e.g. in normal builds
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''May 6, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
 +
* Dani: '''Java 9 timing''' - slight delay
 +
* Dani: RC1 preps
 +
** 2-day test pass went fine - 2 severe issues found, will be addressed
 +
** Request to watch PMC mailing list for API exceptions and defect approvals
 +
* John: '''PC Discussion on Release Cycles'''
 +
** Multiple releases per year PLUS maintenance streams seems like overkill
 +
** Consider an approach like Orion that just moves constantly forward
 +
** Especially for the Platform, being rock solid is most important. Still to attract new contributors we need to allow more frequent "feature updates".
 +
*** A model where both "stable/maintenance" _and_ "features" are contributed to the train might be too much work/overhead.
 +
*** Consider a model like Ubuntu, ... with some release numbers being "stable/LTS base" and others being "in-between feature releases" ?
 +
*** Consider a model like LTS for maintenance fixes / aside mainstream just moving forward ?
  
'''April 2, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
 
* Dani - new GTK3+ issues
 
** crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX ({{bug|431330}})
 
** problems with main menu ({{bug|419830}})
 
* Dani - '''Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work'''
 
** Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
 
* Dani - need to '''approve API changes for Java 8 in M7'''
 
** No API changes, only additions
 
** Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
 
** ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
 
** There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
 
* John - '''SWT over JavaFX'''
 
** EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
 
** Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
 
** Relationship to Tom Schindl's [http://www.eclipse.org/efxclipse/index.html e(fx)clipse project] ?
 
*** e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
 
*** Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
 
*** Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in {{bug|426243}}
 
*** Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
 
**** It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
 
**** John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
 
*** Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX
 
  
 +
'''April 15, 2015''' - Dani, John, McQ, Alex, Martin
 +
* Dani: '''Java 1.7 Changes'''
 +
** Some bundles have been moved to a 1.7 BREE by new committers, even after API freeze
 +
** Rule has always been "we move up when there's a reason to move up". We won't move up without reason.
 +
*** Dani: Moving the BREE may even cause API changes, so should only be done when incrementing the minor version (5% risk)
 +
*** Alex: Such updates allow staying current and not get to "rewrite is needed" state (thus needed) but has to happen before M6 (API freeze)
 +
** Alex suggest not accepting additional changes, but not reverting either (to avoid churn)
 +
* Dani: '''Batik 1.6 update'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 26, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
+
'''April 8, 2015''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, John, McQ
* John - '''EclipseCon Update'''
+
* Dani: '''Batik''' - Platform is good, Train may need to update, perhaps updating one bundle only would suffice. John will follow up.
** Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
+
* Alex: '''SWT for GTK 3 News'''
** IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
+
** GTK port finally decoupled from X11 - it renders on Wayland now, can switch the renderer to a pure HTML one
** Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
+
** This opens up opportunities (but depends on hosts that have GTK).
** Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
+
 
** See also Blog Posts from [http://cdtdoug.ca/ Doug Schaefer] and [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/author/irbull/ Ian Bull] as well as [https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2014/news/top-5-ian-bull top 5 from Ian]
+
* John - '''ARM port of GTK''' - any tracking items ?
+
** Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
+
** IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
+
** Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
+
** Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
+
*** Example: {{bug|430698}}, {{bug|429237}}, {{bug|415757}}; {{bug|419855}} talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
+
*** Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
+
*** Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
+
**** Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
+
**** Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
+
* Alex - '''Java 8 vs Java 7''' currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
+
** In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
+
** ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is {{bug|390889}} and we'll try to fix it for M7.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
+
'''April 1, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani (Regrets: John travelling)
* McQ - '''Congrats on Java 8 Release''' to coincide with the Oracle release
+
* Alex: '''GTK 3.16''' seeing issues again - fixed some crashes, but scrolling is still entirely broken
* Dani - '''Windows 8 Support''' - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
+
** SWT uses a number of things that GTK declares as "implementation detail"
** McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
+
* PMC approval on piggyback CQ's (AC question forwarded by John)
** Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
+
** Dani sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02332.html our position] to John in order to update the AC
** Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 12, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''March 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
* GTK - SWT team discussions
+
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - Bigger this year due to LocationTech (750 attendees)
* John - '''preparing for Java 8 release'''
+
** Mark Reinhold keynote and "after-session" on Java 9
 +
** Much interest in Orion JS tooling / editor, also on desktop
 +
** Public face of Eclipse Platform at the conference was much more diverse than in the past (Lars Vogel, Max Anderson, Google ...)
 +
* Dani: {{bug|458730}} '''Mars Plan Update'''
 +
* Dani: '''e4 project leadership''' approved by EMO
 +
* Dani: Szymon Brandys resigned as Platform/Resources co-lead. Need to +1 on the mailing list
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 5, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
+
 
* Dani: '''How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit''' - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
+
'''March 11, 2015 - no meeting (EclipseCon)'''
* Dani: '''Windows 8 Support'''
+
** Not listed in official plan
+
** No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
+
** Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
+
** Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
+
** AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
+
*** Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
+
* Dani: '''State of GTK 3+'''
+
** Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
+
** Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
+
** Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
+
** Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
+
** On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
+
** Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
+
* Alex: '''GTK 3 in Mars'''
+
** Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
+
** RHEL 5 would no longer work
+
** Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 26, 2014''' - Alex, John, Martin, McQ
 
* John: '''Orion Release''' this week
 
  
* Alex: '''Eclipse on ARM64'''
+
'''March 4, 2015''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, John
** Launcher and swt at first
+
* Dani: '''e4 leadership''' - Dani will volunteer to co-lead
** Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
+
* Dani: '''BREEs''' - documentation about how to pick the EE
** John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
+
** Recommending the "earliest generally supported JRE that provides the capabilities you need"
*** Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
+
** Would like an URL on the page pointing to the most recent plan (talking to Wayne)
*** At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
+
* John: '''greatfix contest'''
** Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
+
** Dani: Working well - some very small contributions but some also very large (eg Customize Perspective fixes)
 +
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - numbers looking good; join Planning Council Breakfast as delegate for Dani
  
* Dani: Update on '''GTK 3+ issue''' - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
+
<hr/>
** Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
+
'''February 25, 2015''' - Dani, Martin McQ
** McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
+
* No topics
*** If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
+
*** Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
+
*** Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it
+
  
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''February 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* Alex: '''Building Native Launchers'''
 +
** Current way of building is kinda unpredictable - even if getting some agreement on versions to use, results are kinda unpredictable
 +
** Pushing towards Hudson RHEL builders at least at the EF to get more transparency and automation - attempt to mimic the infrastructure at IBM
 +
** Looking at 3 primary architectures (at the EF) for Linux vs. secondary architectures (non-public builders potentially)
 +
* Dani: Great initiative, but other (non-EF) builders must not be broken
 +
** EF doesn't allow any commercial tools (but currently, e.g. Windows launchers are built with MSVS)
 +
* Alex is willing to spend time to get Linux builds running; but can't help with other architectures
 +
** Martin: great approach - for Windows, using a cross-compiler on Linux might be interesting (after Linux native works)
 +
* Alex: This is just phase one - getting rid of the binaries in git repos might be phase 2 (since the checked-in binaries easily cause inconsistencies between Java and Native side)
 +
** Martin: Checked-in binaries help consumers and contributors who just want to make a Java change
 +
** Dani: Checked-in binaries are also used for comparing build results for expected vs accidental changes
 +
 +
* Alex: '''{{bug|459399}} - Policy for recommended minimum execution environments for bundles'''
 +
** Dani: It works today
 +
*** To run Eclipse, Java 8 or Java 9 can be used (minimum BREE has no impact)
 +
*** To modify the source, a new JRE can be used but then the Execution Environment Descriptions need to be installed
 +
** Policy as discussed in the past: Each project can increase the BREE if there is a real need (such as generifying) and no upstream clients are broken
 +
*** But don't change the BREE without justification -- changing the BREE always has some effect, such as new warnings that would need to be addressed
 +
*** Suggested BREE for new bundles has already been changed by Lars
 +
* Alex: Even for bundles in "maintenance mode", old BREE causes issues for people who build from source (who have to change compilers etc)
 +
* No conclusion so far (Alex and Dani disagree)
 +
 +
* Dani: '''e4 leadership'''
 +
** Mature bits being moved to Eclipse - e4 remaining as an incubator to keep alive for experiments with low entry barrier
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
+
'''February 11, 2015''' - Dani, Alex
* Dani: '''Silenio to work on GTK issue?'''
+
* no topics
* John: '''GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation'''
+
* John: '''e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools'''
+
** Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
+
** Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
+
** Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
+
** John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
+
** Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
+
*** If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
+
** Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 5, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
+
 
* Dani: '''Confcall Numbers:''' Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
+
'''February 4, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
* Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
+
* Alex: With GTK-3.15.[345] , Eclipse is entirely unusable
* Alex: Testing on modern Linux
+
** Alex has some dirty workarounds to make it start, but still many issues like trees not painted, ...
 +
** Crash on startup identified to be GTK bug. Fix to be released in 3.15.6 https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=edec64cda3d4518b4e87d5ea5d287d4570ba9933
 +
* Dani: Working on Solaris 64-bit
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 22, 2014''' - John, Dani, Alex, Martin
 
* John, Alex: '''New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora'''
 
** Alex been looking at Browser
 
** Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
 
** Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
 
*** Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
 
*** Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
 
* Dani: '''M5 Status'''
 
** Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier
 
  
 +
'''January 28, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, John
 +
* Dani: Switch Mac OS X 10.9 with 10.10 in Mars target environments
 +
** No objections
 +
* Alex: Looking for any Eclipse related activity @Fosdem
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 15, 2014''' - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin
 
* Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
 
* Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion
 
  
 +
'''January 21, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
 +
* Alex: '''Process for allowing non-committers extended bugzilla privileges (for bug triage)?'''
 +
** Dani: Yes a process exists. Send bugzilla username to Dani.
 +
* Alex: '''New resource for helping with SWT'''
 +
* Dani: '''Platform/UI co-lead'''
 +
* Dani: Solaris: Java 8 will only support 64 bits on both Intel and SPARC --&gt; IBM SWT Team considering to invest in getting patches in for 64-bit Solaris
 +
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''January 14, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 +
* Dani: Update on Platform/UI Leadership: Daniel Rolka left IBM and for now has no time to contribute. He stepped down as co-lead and nominated Lars Vogel
 +
* Dani: Solaris x86 64-bit support - patches exist, but no machine available. No luck to get one from Oracle or via Eclipse Foundation. We will not support Solaris x86 64-bit unless someone makes a machine available
 +
<hr/>
 +
 +
'''January 7, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 +
* Dani: '''Platform/UI Leadership'''
 +
* John: '''Git security issue''' - pick up a patch for Jgit in the packages before SR2? - Mostly an EPP
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 8, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ
 
* Dani: '''API Freeze''' with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception
 
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2014 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2014]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]

Revision as of 14:37, 14 June 2016

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every Tuesday at 11.00am EST.

Meeting Minutes

June 14, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Martin, Lars

  • McQ: Mattermost / Slack for communication
    • not much different than newsgroup or IRC, but very dynamic when everybody is on it
  • Lars: Master is Open
    • Dani: Simple story - if we do need an emergency build we would create the maintenance branch on demand based on the tag
    • Only limitation: We can't update the parent pom's at this time
    • Don't have tools to check if the MANIFEST.MF needs to update - only API Tooling for API changes, but nothing for micro changes (bug 360703) is open to improve that)
    • We do have an alert if there's no version/source change but the binaries changed (e.g. due to a compiler update) but that's not in the workspace
  • Lars: Upgrade SWT to Java 8 for Oxygen ? - to be decided by the SWT team, the PMC is OK with the update if the SWT team decide so
  • McQ: Language API -- Overlap between Orion and Che (from ide-dev mailing list and bug 496114)
    • The protocol is pretty big, but well documented - looks like an improved version of Flux
    • The protocol is generic, implementations need to be specific -- some implementations already ongoing (Javascript)
      • People start working on editors hooking up to the protocol -- does it make sense building a JDT Language Server ?
    • The tricky part is, that the Che workspace model is very different than the Eclipse workspace
    • How to create a small lightweight server that would scale -- one workspace per user may not scale
      • At the beginning, it would be less powerful than JDT today since context would be lacking
      • But the direction is very interesting ... though maybe too many people are implementing the same thing right now
  • Dani: What goes into the Neon Update Releases
    • as discussed on May 17 (see below): Must be in master first, consider for backport after that
    • AI: Dani will prepare a note
  • Dani: Using Sound in Eclipse
    • Eric Rizzo uploaded a feature to provide different sounds for successful or failed JUnit tests (see bug 496003)
    • Martin: CDT has allowed sound for breakpoint actions since long
    • Lars: Moving the Mylyn notification framework to Platform UI was on the plan already, now considered for Oxygen
    • McQ: Every Platform has an OS-Level Notification system so that should really be leveraged
    • Martin: Mylyn notifications can be "active", can OS notifications also be active ? - McQ thinks yes
    • Could work on SWT implementation of host platform notifications in parallel to pushing down the Mylyn API
    • Request on specific JUnit sounds not yet decided.

June 7, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Alex

  • no topics

May 31, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Lars, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: IP Log
    • The tool did not work, but it was manually submitted and approved
    • In previous years, some people wanted the IP Log to not be so publicly visible, so now only project leads can generate and submit it
  • Dani: Release Review
    • Reply to the public E-Mail with comments or +1
  • Dani: Update Jetty to 3.9.3
    • Consensus to update - Jetty team working on fixing their update site
  • Dani: RC4 Status Update
    • Cooling down - maybe 2 fixes from SWT, 1 in Platform/Text Search, and the approved doc fix for deprecating the mac command

May 24, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Martin

  • Dani: IP Log Generator - New version is unable to deal with Eclipse Project, Wayne is working on it
  • Dani: Release Review - Deadline next week (June 2)
  • Dani: Deprecation Request from Brian
    • Command org.eclipse.ui.cocoa.fullscreenWindow -- all PMC agree on the deprecation although late, since it only affects docs
  • Dani: Copyright End Date
    • AGREEMENT to no longer require updating the end date (though committers are still ALLOWED to update it)
    • Will no longer run the automated copyright tool (actually haven't run it the past 3 releases)
    • Will live with the source code notices being inaccurate / incomplete - the accurate state is in Git
    • This is acknowledged to not be ideal, but the best compromise we can come up with since "bulk changes" are not OK
  • Dani: Neon Status
    • Java 9 launching - affects all Java consumers, not clear yet what Oracle will do, no plan changing Equinox/Launcher at this time

May 17, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: bug 475184 Neon Plan Update 2
    • Windows 10 and Ubuntu 16.04 will be added as "active" Platforms that people do work on
    • SWT would like to remove Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.04 from the list of reference Platforms
      • Alex: Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.10 which is hard to support
        • Correction (Markus): Ubuntu 12.04 has GTK 3.4.2. Ubuntu 14.04 has GTK 3.10.8
      • Message is clear: "Supposed to run on older Platforms, but these are the primary ones" - including last 2 LTS ones
    • Agreement to keep Windows 7 and remove Windows 8
    • AI Dani to check if SuSE 11 is right (12 been out since 2 years)
  • Dani: Copyright End Date - EMO: To be decided per project
    • IBMers will have to continue updating the copyright end date, regardless of what other companies do
    • Copyright tool: Only the person who made a change is allowed to update the Copyright notice
      • gray area: actually fixing the date can be considered a change
    • Alex is in favor of consistency across the project
  • Dani: Policy for Neon.Update Releases - What to allow in, which rules to apply on the endgame
    • Martin: Fact is, that the Update stream is built less often, and thus also tested less often
    • Rule: Any fix or feature must be in master first (and may be backported thereafter)
    • Will want "some" features in Update, but probably not all of them - decision: discuss feature by feature at PMC
    • Stakeholder who's interested in a backport must send a quick note to the PMC (just like for API change requests)
    • In case too many requests should come in, could still discuss updating the procedure
  • Dani: Neon RC2 Builds Update
    • Currently looking good, but latest Java 9 Launchers broke the Annotation support - investigating
    • Quality generally looking good - "Stock GTK3" very stable now
    • GTK3 on SuSE, Fedora looking much better than Mars (at least with a GNOME shell)
    • Lars: bug 493477 detached editors broken on GTK2 nominating for RC

May 10, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Dani: Policy for what should go into Neon.Update Releases
    • Would like to be more flexible than in the past - discussion point for next week
  • Martin: RHEL7 -- GTK3 versus --launcher.GTK_Version 2
    • GTK2 rendering still much more reliable than GTK 3 - forced to release commercial software with the GTK2 fallback for now
      • Drawback: Even with MATE desktop using GTK2 (for accessibility), the Browser widget webkitgtk2 is not easy to get since not in the official repos
    • Alex: Desktops are moving faster - adopting change very quickly - cannot keep up with the investment that the Community currently makes in SWT
      • Heavily limiting what we support looks like the only viable approach at the moment...
      • There's 2 big groups of bugs: (a) "Next" version of GTK, and (b) "Old" version like Ubuntu 13.04 which has 3.10 - can we limit support to "latest" ?
      • Martin: Need "LTS" Linux (RHEL 7, RHEL 6, Ubuntu 12, 14 - soon 16).
    • Alex: Gnome people have come up with a "Container environment" for GTK - could ship Eclipse that way ?
      • Limitations: Updates must come through this application - already using Gimp from such an environment
      • Might be able to deliver Eclipse that way next year (Oxygen)

May 3, 2016 - Dani, Martin, Alex, McQ

  • Brian's request on the PMC list
    • McQ: Why would we care about adding small enhancements in RC1 when we should focus on testing and critical fixes
    • Dani: Two parts in the change - the original one (approvable), but another change also sneaked in (enable the prefix search) - not approvable
    • Alex: People don't want to wait for getting in an improvement...
    • McQ: OK for adding as feature to Neon.1 , but Neon.0 should be focused on bug fixes
    • Keep in Gerrit for now - Neon.1 stream is typically opened when no new changes are expected. Rebasing is relatively easy from Gerrit.
    • ACTION McQ to -1 and argue why.
  • Alex: Update on Accessibility
    • broken since GTK 3.8 where accessibility is no longer a module but shipped with GTK itself
    • due to that, the way accessibility is implemented is totally different - no more factories - experimenting with possible approaches
    • Discussing the addition of Eclipse to their test infrastructure, at a meeting a month from now
      • and even so, not sure how well accessibility is tested in GTK itself
    • Launching with -gtk_version 2 is not a workaround, because the v2 GTK doesn't register as an accessible application in newer desktops !

April 26, 2016 - Dani, Lars, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Mickael's API change request ... tried to address feedback from Markus but then got no additional feedback
  • Alex: Accessibility - broken on recent GNOME and probably others
    • Accessibility is important. Have reports from users who say "Eclipse works for them"
    • McQ: Need to keep some focus and look at what we can do for Neon.1
  • Alex: Platform.ui generification of project
    • Dani: Won't get a consistent story when done piecemeal - needs to be done "per framework" and not necessarily "per plugin"
    • McQ: It's a huge effort - enough by itself for one whole release !
    • Dani: If a meaningful separate unit is found that can be done, but things like e.g. LabelProvider, ContentProvider and TreeViewer can't be done isolated
    • Lars: If a smaller unit of generification work is possible, that's permitted when somebody signs up for the work and it has been discussed in the public
    • ACTION Alex to prepare a message for review and then send that.
  • Lars: Copyright discussion
    • Not having the end date in the copyright notice makes the copyright invalid.
    • The IP Advisory Board will discuss it again.
  • Dani: Update on FEEP
    • Paul not reached out yet
    • A list now shows what's done or in progress - but no time
  • Dani: Update on M7
    • Last 4 builds failed due to infrastructure issues - Maven stuff could not be accessed
    • Will try to enable cache on the build side and re-try until the cache is full


April 19, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex (regrets: Lars)

  • Dani: IP Stuff on Copyright Updates pinged the Lawyers but no update yet, need to wait
  • Dani: FEEP discussed on AC, People were sympathetic to our issues.
    • General direction that FEEP sponsored work is no different than other contributions
    • Wayne took the Action Item setting up a meeting with Paul and interested parties.
    • Website with ongoing FEEP still pending - Dani is tracking
  • Dani: All PMC please review and +1 API requests when you find time
    • McQ does review and typically ask question but not close enough to the code to +1
    • AGREEMENT on "+0" votes to express "no objections but others should approve too
  • Reviews vs. Features
    • Alex: Badge System was quite successful at Fedora


April 12, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Lars, Alex

  • Lars: Get rid of the Copyright Year Update Requirement
    • bug 485257_c13 EMO: All information is in the git repos
    • McQ: OK lifting the requirement but doesn't want wrong information in files .. get rid of all copyright years ?
    • Dani: Replacing the end-date by "[see git]" might be an option
    • ACTION McQ or Dani talk to IBM Legal, then decide next week
  • Lars: bug 490012 Remove Project Settings to force strictly compatible JRE
    • Example: When don't have admin rights on a customer machine, can't install anything
    • Dani: With the Gerrit Build Validation, the risk of getting unbuildable code is no longer there
    • Proposal: Project requests a particular JRE, but the workspace configures treating this as an error or warning
    • DECISION to get rid of the strict error per project.
  • Dani: bug 475934 API Change on model processing order
    • Dani: Even if this fixes an issue, M7 is late in the game
    • McQ: Does API specify the order of events? - No; only on internal method.
    • McQ: Is this transparent to most consumers, or will 5% have to react in their code ?
      • Lars has a few customers hit by this, but had to do a few tricks to mitigate the issue;
      • Making the change won't break them, but they could now remove their workaround
      • Martin: Not a formal API change and feels like cleanup/polish - M7 as the "performance milestone" feels just right for this
    • Dani: Can be convinced making the change now if it is widely announced; convinced that this will hit more people than helping
    • DECISION to allow making the change and announce widely.
  • Dani: FEEP and EMO Hiring Update
    • EMO working on website update to announce the work being done
    • Didn't talk about the specific SWT issue around "FEEP should provide clean stuff rather than quick fix"
    • Already agreed on hiring a person, communication will come in June/July
  • Dani: IDE-dev proposal
    • People don't find our tips and tricks; suggestion to add to the welcome page
    • Solstice L&F issue on old Browser
      • McQ: Eclipse is a developer tool, and developers run on current browsers ... OK if only old browsers are affected
      • OK if there is a way out (such as choosing a different Theme) - not blocking anyone.

April 5, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Dani: FEEP Update
    • Foundation pays Patrik Suzzi as a contractor to look at Platform bugs (triage, and fix)
    • Will focus on critical / blocker bugs initially, or bugs already tagged by committers for 4.6 M7 and 4.6
    • Mickael Barbero still quite involved in Releng - Foundation looking for Releng replacement so Mickael can develop (already reviewed autosave - but might be on vacation at the moment)
  • Dani: Solaris 32-bit
    • Will provide Solaris 64-bit binaries, but stop building Solaris 32-bit with Neon
    • Open question: what does this mean in terms of GTK versions ? (GTK3 would be nice)
      • Alex may start asking questions as soon as the binary fragments are in the repo
    • McQ: Windows 32-bit is still active - future change probably tied to
  • Dani: New Solstice Welcome
    • Some issues with Logo, sometimes it's there sometimes not; Brian working on it, Solstice will become the new default in M7
    • Currently, ONE product logo must work on all Themes - bad design - probably to be changed
    • McQ: Do we mirror the welcome for BIDI ? (Dani thinks yes, saw bugs come along)
  • Alex: FEEP Process Discussion (around Themed Scrollbars)
    • "Scrollbar Theming": Contractor doing work without SWT committers knowing, and disregarding suggestions from the committers
      • Looks like the proper fix from committers was not even tried ?
      • It's OK putting adding a layer if it solves a problem ... but if the proper solution is suggested, it should at least be tried.
      • McQ: Accessibility - with 10000 items it's getting slow - should try the native way
    • Lars: Transparency? - No insight on what FEEP's are actually ongoing
      • AI Dani send note to Wayne and Mike asking for location of FEEP Project List
      • AI Martin compare against AC's requested list, and put on agenda for the next AC call
    • Lars: Styling is actually an important business driver!
    • Alex: FEEP feels like "quick and dirty" is favored at the moment over sustainable solutions !
      • McQ: Perhaps a problem with the funding model ?
      • Dani: Lack of people who want to fix issues on the list of the AC ?
      • McQ: FEEP is still early - time to provide feedback now. Goal Transparency on what's done, and why design decisions are taken.
      • McQ: Who cares for StyledText - have Markus have a conversation with the submitter ?
        • Lars: We have no API for styling scrollbars (background, foreground) - Alex: THIS is what the FEEP should have adressed !
    • Martin: Next step should be conversation with EMO about toplevel transparency, and basic guidelines ("sustainable solution over quick fix").
    • Alex: Need something like JEP (Java Enhancement Process) for FEEP.
      • McQ: Agree this is what we want, but would it discourage submitters ? The lighter-weight the process the better...
    • Alex: If anyone stepped in and did that work it's fine ... but such work sponsored via FEEP seems putting resources in a wrong direction.
  • Lars Question: Google work on improved Type Hierarchy
    • Main work is a new Index, Type hierarchy will be the first client, planned past Neon (contributor: Stefan Xenos).

March 29, 2016 - McQ, Lars, Martin, Dani, Alex

  • Lars: PDE Build in Maintenance - Officially state this ?
    • PDE Build still works; and we're not yet in a position to replace it (it's needed for manual export)
    • Alex: What about not quite declaring maintenance mode, but state something like "for a new project, you might consider Tycho or something else"
    • McQ: DECISION Ensure that on the PDE Build Homepage, we clarify the relationship between PDE Build and other technologies (like Tycho)
  • Lars: Integrate more projects into Platform UI?
    • Having few commits on a component, or overlapping committer list, is not an argument for merging projects
    • Arguments for merging would only be if existing committers struggle with handling incoming contributions (or if component leads want to get merged) ... but that's not quite the case right now. Being able to look at a component by itself has also some value.
    • Alex: Being able to handle Team/UI would make sense for Platform/UI ... but not for the native resources
    • DECISION to not merge projects at this time.
  • Lars: Request for API Changes on eclipse-pmc mailing list
    • McQ: OK for a single PMC member to +1 the obvious ones, but should do due diligence on API changes (eg ping consumers etc)
    • Alex: OK for API Additions, but should discuss API changes
    • Compromise: API change requests must be requested on eclipse-pmc mailing list; PMC members must "speak up" on the mailing list if they want an item discussed, otherwise any PMC member can just approve. AI Dani notify mailing list.
  • Dani: 900 Bugs targeted Neon
    • Need to move away from "just moving bugs from one milestone to the next"

March 22, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: we shipped M6 on time. Watch out for API change requests on the PMC mailing list.
  • Dani: public holiday on Friday (Good Friday) and/or Monday (Easter Monday)
  • Alex: gave an update on tests running on CentOS with GTK+ 3
  • Discussion about Che
    • McQ: Che still feels monolithic - unfortunate that the Eclipse Resource Model was not considered
    • Dani: Preferences in Che vs. the IDE
    • McQ: What would it take to unify Che, Orion and the Eclipse IDE ?

March 15, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Platform/UI got awarded as the Most Open Project :)
  • Dani: Mention PDE/Build as in maintenance? - discuss next week when Lars is back
  • McQ: Merge Subproject Committers Groups? - Membership based on expertise is important
  • Dani: Test Failures due to hidpi work - not entirely done yet but looking good for M7
  • Dani: Lots of failures due to "Widget Disposed" failures
    • Gerrit tests didn't fail, probably sine the event timing on VNC is a little bit different than running manually
    • Alex: VNC/Gerrit tests run on GTK2 whereas all the rest defaults to GTK3 now
    • Looking for a machine with GTK3 to enable them -- working with Mikael Barbero to get this for David
  • VS Code Open Sourced - plugin model is very similar to Orion
    • Excellent with TypeScript, not quite as good as Orion for JavaScript
    • Ideally, would love to see some unification of web-based IDEs (like Che already using Orion editor)

March 8, 2016 - No call


March 1, 2016 - Dani, Martin

  • Dani OOO next week
  • Alex: bug 179924 SSH-agent authentication 3rd party code for SSH using JVM internals
    • Dani: Suggest asking on the bug for confirmation what's the JNA team's plan ... they have a full year time
    • Martin: JNA seems quite widely used these days...
  • EclipseCon next week - Dani and Alex out - Martin will open the Bridge but might be canceled.

February 23, 2016 - McQ, Martin, Dani, Alex

  • Dani: Mars.2 is on track
  • Dani: FEEP Update
    • EMO still looking for people bidding on items prioritized by the AC - Pascal to look at some p2ish issues in April
  • Dani: Update on Welcome
    • Brian de Alwis contributed Solstice based Welcome - looking nice and done right, just a 4th theme to select (some artwork needs IP review)
  • McQ: Scrollbars on Windows and their appearance
    • Dark Theme Scrollbars don't currently look good on Windows - proposal to paint in SWT - currently proposed on StyledText only
    • Dani agrees with Alex that this would open the door to hell
    • McQ: Having seen AWT take ages in terms of emulating OS appearance makes the idea of painting ourselves not too appealing
    • Also concerned about special cases (like performance with ultra-long lines etc)
    • Alex: Any approach in this direction will have bad effects in terms of SWT maintainability and its cross-platform support (think Wayland, RAP, ...). API additions designed with not at least 2 out of the 3 WSs supported are probably not good cross platform APIs considering how different the WSs are.
    • Could a GTK version on Windows perhaps be an alternative? Alex(after meeting additions): GTK is supposed to run fine there and Broadway on Windows can be driving for it as figuring the build on Windows should give working SWT (thanks to Wayland work making GTK port quite crossplatform).

February 16, 2016 - Alex, Dani, Martin

  • no topics

February 9, 2016 - Alex, McQ, Dani

  • Dani: looking good for Mars.2 (4.5.2) - no RC4 planned
  • Dani: please take a look at bug 466370 Welcome Screen redesign
  • Dani: please take a look at bug 472614 Smart Project Importer

February 2, 2016 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Dani: Foundation Hires - Dani hopes they'll find someone in Europe to deal with Releng issues
  • Dani: Neon M5 went smoothly - M6 will be the API freeze; tomorrow is the last planned RC for Mars.2
  • Dani: CQ Deadline on Feb.12 for Neon
  • Dani: bug 486647 for changing the strategy when opening files not associated with Eclipse
    • With M5, can now use the System Editor (default) or Text Editor - there's a request to always use the text editor
    • Dani thinks that for JPG one wants to use the OS
      • Martin agrees, OpenWith and choosing an editor remembers the choice, and one can also remember;
      • We also show the System Icon in Project Explorer, so using the System Editor by default is natural
      • Alex set it to "ask via popup" - can be quite noisy, but avoids trouble when KDevelop or something associated itself with Makefiles or so
    • Agreement that flexibility is fine - see no case for changing the default

January 26, 2016 - Dani, McQ, Alex, Martin, Lars

  • Official PMC representation on AC calls - keep McQ listed since he is interested but nominate Dani instead of John
  • Next round of FEEP coming up - discussed pro and cons
  • Dani: busy week for the team: Mars.2 (4.5.2) RC2 and Neon (4.6) M5 due this Friday - on track

January 19, 2016 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Upstaffing PMC - meet next week
  • Update Eclipse PMC representation on the AC
    • Since only Alex will represent the Eclipse PMC at EclipseCon, should push for not making formal decisions unless there is remote attendance support
  • Dani: bug 485429 PDE Build - looks like a lot of people still use it; OK if moving to a different component, but there's still a dependency:
    • Plugin or feature export still needs PDE Build -- Whoever wants to remove it, will need to implement a replacement in the Platform
    • Alex: Platform build currently does double bootstrapping Tycho already ... making this more complex would be a problem
    • Introducing other build system into the Platform would be a wrong approach
    • Will go ahead with what we have for 4.6
  • Alex: As of today's GTK3 build, Eclipse is working fine on Wayland :) thanks to a number of fixes in GTK
    • Some GTK developers are now considering Eclipse as part of their regression suite :)
  • SWT move to Java 7 was much appreciated; moving forward, how to deal with functional interfaces ?
  • Alex would be interested in some styling support in SWT - would simplify some things, at least on GTK
    • Could be a very simple API like setStyle(String) - win32 also seems to have some styling support
  • Martin: Stability of GTK3 on Mars.2 ?
    • Alex: Many distros do their own hacks, so hard to tell... Mars.2 should be stable on every distro that has a stable GTK3 distro without too many patches
    • Can't recommend GTK3 on Ubuntu yet; few things improved lately, but still causes troubles whenever Ubuntu updates their GTK, requires more fixes in SWT; Kubunutu and derivatives might be even worse
      • Good news is that GTK3.16 dropped support for custom theming engines - causes some ugliness but at least it's stable
    • Debian or SuSE should be OK;
    • Expect Neon GTK3 to be more stable everywhere than GTK2

January 12, 2016 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Upstaffing the PMC
    • Considering "one-time invitation" to get to know candidates better; not so comfortable with a "trial period"
  • Dani: Remove Kim Moir from Platform Releng - ideally talk to Kim before moving forward
  • Dani: bug 485429 Remove PDE Build from our drops?
    • Removing PDE Build is one thing - adding a different technology would be wrong, as wrong as adding EGit
    • McQ and Dani will reach out inside IBM;
    • Patches are still being submitted; middle ground would be remove from the delivery but keep in repo (and deprecate since not adding features)
  • Dani: bug 485257 Copyright Policy Change - waiting on EMO/Legal input
  • Alex: Updating SWT to Java7
  • McQ: Travel for EclipseCon

January 5, 2016 - McQ, Dani

  • Dani: PMC Membership

December 15, 2015 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • No calls until Jan.5
  • Looking for a new PMC member

December 8, 2015 - McQ, Alex, John, Dani

  • Discussed bug 483803 regarding the BREE for org.eclipse.core.jobs.
    • PMC decided to move it back to JavaSE-1.7 but keep databinding on JavaSE-1.8
  • Dani: Reminder: bug 475185 Plan Update 1 - Due with Neon M4 next week

December 1, 2015 - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani

  • McQ: The new 5-Dollar Raspberry Pi and Orion (Java server works just fine on the Pi2).
    • Node server is a bit smaller but single-user and no git - nice for developing node apps though
  • Dani: Mars.2 Endgame Plan sent
  • Dani: bug 475185 Plan Update 1 - Due with Neon M4 next week

November 25, 2015 - McQ, Martin, Alex

  • Alex: Bumping SWT to Java8
    • Lars wants to use Lambdas bug 481195; Markus keller wants static helper methods;
    • Stephan Herrmann - University Research for Thread safety through typed annotations
      • Are they ready to contribute? - Probably yes, needs to be clarified; having better dev support for Thread Safety will be a huge help
      • Dani: Thinks that going to Java8 feels a bit early for SWT, which is at the bottom of the technology stack ... would prefer 1 year later
      • John: Lambda support doesn't necessarily require SWT to be Java 8 itself (it could just be more lambda friendly)
        • Won't help with base listeners, but probably with mouse events and related .. follow up in the bugreport
        • Labdas are more than syntactic sugar, it's more efficient ... still there is more value in Thread safety annotations
      • McQ: Assumes there would be an extensive discussion on cross-project anyways ... but there is evidence now we could get value from doing this.
  • Dani: Update on Move of platform.text
    • Approval from IP, will soon move to platform.ui - will keep platform.text bugzilla.
  • John: FEEP
  • McQ: Platform Support
    • Many Platforms are not really active - IBM keeps alive some of them, for example RHEL4
    • Recent mailinglist asking for Mac 32bit, have we done enough on announcements ?
    • Agreement there's no case for catering more to people who don't read announcements and follow the project. Having a mailinglist ask once in a while is OK.
    • Dani: Planning Update for Neon / M4 - please comment on the bug.
      • John: Plan document is not really exhaustive on the oldest working Platform - RHEL4 surely won't work in Neon.
    • Alex: Consider a "Build your Own" approach for the more obscure Platforms? - Frees us from keeping older binaries in sync
      • Did that for ARM32 and ARM64 in master - can build by just calling maven
      • McQ: Who would ever validate that scripts are still valid... (Linux community: provides no binaries at all, who validates?)
      • Alex: Providing scripts is a lot less work than providing stable and widely compatible binaries (about 1/3 of the work)

November 18, 2015 - Alex, John, Dani


November 11, 2015 - McQ, John, Dani

  • Discussed new meeting time that works for Martin
    • John to send a note that proposes Tuesday, 11:00 EST / 17:00 CET (starting in two weeks)
  • John: Alex mentioned at EclipseCon that there's no one in SWT team overlooking cross-platform, e.g. to craft new APIs
    • owning one platform is a full-time job
    • would need another person in SWT
    • for now one of the two co-leads needs to own that task - Dani to talk to Pradeep and the co-leads
  • John to Dani: how was EclipseCon
    • Dani: Great! Lots of talking to people; spent quite some time at the Hackathon; only saw 4 talks

October 28, 2015 - McQ, John, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Discuss new meeting time that works for Martin
    • decided that John will send out a doodle poll
  • Dani: Discuss our position regarding the removal of committer emeritus (bug 480670)
    • everyone agreed that we would like to keep this for the following reasons:
      • it is a good way reward those committers who invested lots of their time and made significant contributions to a project
      • it makes no sense to remove something that currently works and ask projects to maintain this on their website
    • we have to make sure that the emeritus list doesn't get stale

October 21, 2015 - McQ, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: so far no negative vote in the vote to move platform.text into platform.ui
  • McQ: Martin can no longer join, McQ would like to move the meeting
    • detailed several alternatives but no fit yet
    • decided to continue the discussion in our next meeting

October 14, 2015 - McQ, John, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Community asked to move platform.text into platform.ui (see https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-text-dev/msg00484.html)
    • 3 solutions:
      • make the move
      • make a more radical move to merge everything into 'Platform'
      • leave things as is and let new people join platform.text
    • McQ: merging everything together is not an option. Skills are too different. Resources, Debug and SWT need to be kept separate.
    • Dani: fine with the move as long as it does not serve as argument to merge everything into one pot
    • Alex: committers need to accept the move
    • PMC decision: OK with the move but Dani to ask the platform.text and platform.ui committers whether they are both OK with it. Dani to become co-lead of Platform UI
  • John from Board Meeting: Eclipse Foundation wants to change perception that Eclipse is just an IDE. Therefore they would like to change the name of our project ("Eclipse").
    • McQ:
      • this will not be for free. The name is used at many places (code, webpage, Help) and also by companies in their marketing
      • maybe we just have to accept we made a mistake in the beginning and now live with it
      • can't think of a good name - which indicates we shouldn't change it ("Platform" is not good and "Eclipse SDK" or "Eclipse IDE" hide that it is the base for "RCP" apps)
    • decided to talk about this again in the next call

October 7, 2015 - McQ, John, Alex, Dani, Martin

  • Dani: bug 108668 Default Text Encoding UTF-8 ?
    • On Linux and Mac, the Platform encoding is UTF-8 ; on Windows it's Cp1252 in most countries around the globe, even with Windows 10
    • Using the Platform encoding ensures interoperability with all local tools (editors, compilers, ...)
      • Desire for UTF-8 only for Windows exchanging files with users on other systems
      • Changing the encoding of an existing workspace after the fact is a no go (risk of data corruption when loading/saving a file, some encodings are lossy)
      • Using an encoding different than the OS encoding is problematic too (risk of data corruption when importing or D&D files from the OS)
    • Proposal 1: UTF-8 on new empty workspaces on Windows ? --> Might mean that external tools don't work as expected
    • Proposal 2: Make users aware (Restore Oomph Welcome, which was disabled via bug 459486) ? --> But many users don't understand implications, other tools also don't do this
    • Proposal 3: Ask for encoding when team-sharing since only team-shared projects cause issues (eg EGit hook) ? --> But on "push" it may be too late
    • Martin: Encoding describes content, so should be managed with the content (as a project setting)
      • --> Proposal 4: Move to a model where we encourage setting the project-level encoding preference
        • When creating a project, set the workspace default on project level automatically --> ensures that projects remain sane over their lifetime
        • For projects lacking the project-level preference, introduce a Problem Marker (Warning) with quick fix to either UTF-8 or workspace default
    • Decision:
      • We won't change the workspace default -- no use breaking existing users
      • We'll set the project encoding pro-actively
    • Open questions:
      • Do we need tooling to convert project from encoding A to encoding B (if project preference was set incorrectly initially) ?
      • Shall we try setting source encoding on drag-and-drop, or shall the project dictate the policy ?

September 30, 2015 - McQ, John, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: will send a note to PMC list asking to approve new Debug leadership (Sarika)
  • Dani: we should finalize our API removal discussion from last week
    • agreed that APIs marked for removal have to be annotated with @noreference, @noextend and @noimplement
    • agreed that components should be allowed to remove API but they have to provide good reasons
    • agreed that we won't allow to delete APIs simply because they are deprecated
    • agreed that the PMC will decide case by case i.e. there will be no general rule
    • regarding version numbering we decided to also decide this case by case
    • Dani to update the removal document and have it reviewed by the PMC

September 23, 2015 - Dani, John, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: JDT Core - Co-lead going to step up
  • Dani: API Removal Discussion
    • Q1: When do we actually delete API? What's the benefit compared to the pain that we cause ?
      • Example of methods that don't do anything any more or do wrong things -- those should be removed
      • Example TableTreeViewer : Continue having the API doesn't hurt, there's no significant benefit removing it
        • Alex: TableTree was completely broken on GTK for 2-3 years ... keeping such components that don't work properly lowers the quality
        • Dani: Is there actual proof of bugs ? Or could it be working fine on Windows RCP ? If it's deprecated, people use it at own risk; do we really need to break them, if it provides value to some people on some Platforms ?
        • John: In TableTreeViewer case, EMF had some generic code (was unclear if the path was ever taken) and CDT could update easily
      • Summary: scheduling for removal is OK with good arguments. Give Adopters a chance to respond before removal takes place.
    • Q2: How to deal with the versions?
      • Dani: Updating the major causes major pain on everyone (adoption work), so this should be avoided
        • Actively developed plugins will notice source breakage when recompiling anyways -- no need to update the major for them.
        • For dormant plugins (not recompiled), everyone will break when updating the major although only few may be affected - is it worth notifying those small percentage that might break ?
        • Plugins who don't care recompiling may have to live with ClassNotFoundException
        • Tooling exists: API Use Scan Tools can discover incorrect API references that are not announced by the versions
      • Summary: Handle the Major with care -- in most cases, the cost of updating the major is not justified by the benefit.
    • John: Announcement When thinking about removing something, we should announce that far and wide and ask for feedback
      • Martin: But which channel is as effective as actually removing it ? There's always who don't actually listen...
      • John: Still, giving a possibility to listen is important. Agree that mentioning in the release docs is not enough.
      • Dani: When making a release, also send message with a link to the removals page (for all removals that are planned)
    • John: Mechanisms for maintaining binary compatibility while only breaking source compatibility (but it's a lot of work!)
      • Dani: Agree, in this case better just leave it in there
    • Alex: What to do next time, can we remove more stuff ?
      • Martin: Should be at the discretion of the committers. They do the work. If they see the need for removal, they should be allowed to do so (as long as they play by the rules, like early announcement). Need to define what the rules are.
    • John: There was an interesting discussion on cross-project, asking for well-known points in time where major breakage can occur
      • Eg release but without all the deprecated at certain well-known point in time eg every 3-5 years
      • AI continue that discussion on the Architecture Council
    • Summary: Essentially do what we did, plus more communication upfront, allow people to respond before deletion happens (to avoid churn)
      • Committers still need to be able to delete stuff when they find it necessary.
      • Updating the major (or not) to be decided case by case, but in many cases "breaking everyone" is not justified against "notifying few dormant plugins".
  • Alex: Bumping the minimum GTK version again (may cause issues on Platforms like AIX -- to be discussed when it's time)



September 16, 2015 - John, Martin

  • John: API Removal Discussion
    • No urgency now -- changes have been reverted for now, and scheduled for 2017
    • Updating the major of a bundle knowingly breaks everyone/most adopters
      • In the past, breaking changes have often been small enough to work without increasing the major
      • One can argue that removing TableTreeViewer is big enough to warrant updating the major
    • Versioning packages has not been done in the past due to the huge upcoming maintenance effort when starting to do so
    • "Release Version" is decoupled from "bundle versions" already (and may move to date-based versions eg "2016.1" with rolling updates moving forward
    • --> will have more discussion next week

September 9, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, John, McQ

  • John: Planning Council Updates
    • 4 planned releases (March, June, September, December -- essentially end of each quarter) with flexible contents
    • Mid December rather than end to avoid churn, so this one is a little shorter
    • Only June is "major" - allowing to drop off, or breaking changes; others are "minor"
    • McQ want to reduce the number of simultaneous streams -- if "master" is more stable more often that's OK, but avoid too many "live" streams
  • Software is getting more important - would be good to better support multicore
  • John: IntelliJ change in licensing / sales model
    • Many eclipse-positive comments on the announcement blog
    • Possibility putting Money on Eclipse Development may become interesting for companies in this context

September 2, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, John

  • Dani: EclipseDay India on Saturday, 200 attendees wanted to join, hat to cut to 150
    • Keynote by Mike Milinkovich - large Community
  • Dani: Policy for and Mars.2
    • Do we want to stick to the "Service" model or allow feature updates ?
    • Mars.1 winding down -- sticking to "Critical Fixes Only" for that
    • Too much in the maintenance stream causes risk of defocus ... are there relevant features that are worth the extra effort ?
    • Dani: Suggests to require PMC Approval for adding a feature in - example candidate: Improvements for HiDPI
      • Also: What about version number (2nd digit version update), IP disclosures, Translations ... ?
      • Dani would suggest sticking to 3rd digit update only in the marketing release number; but a Release Review would be needed

August 26, 2015 -

  • Dani/Alex/Martin can't join (traveling)

August 19, 2015 - Alex, Dani

  • nothing to discuss

August 12, 2015 - John, Dani

  • John asked whether we run on Windows 10
    • Dani: yes, the team already tested on it a few weeks ago. Runs smoothly one bug so far. Browser widget works despite new browser (Edge)
    • Martin (added after the meeting): A CDT update is needed to keep the Terminal from hanging (see bug 474327, will release with Mars.1). Got some duplicates already. Workaround is switch the Win10 Console to "Legacy Mode".
  • Dani would like to get plan feedback by Friday EOD

August 5, 2015 - McQ, John, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • PC meeting later today (planning calendar, calling SR1/2 "Update 1/2" instead
    • adding another release before Christmas might be a next step - even if Platform contributes identical bits
  • Dani: Eclipse/Mars Retrospective
    • Move more components to Tycho build? (Would still need Ant to test against final build/bits)
    • Contribution Review Dates: joined by some components but not all
    • Error Reporter: Interesting to look at top ten but the sheer number is too big
      • John - based on Orion experience with similar error reporting :
        • Looking at changes in reported issues is more interesting than looking at reports themselves
        • Reports help getting contributions (But, Dani finds that "just adding a null check" is often not what's desired for Java .. though helpful for Javascript)
  • Dani: Foundation IP team doesn't require updating copyright notices per contribution any more (since that information is in git anyways)
    • The Project has to agree
    • Some contributors like to have their name in the source -- that's OK, no requirement to remove author information, but no requirement to add either
    • Won't remove existing lists (they never claimed to be complete, since there always was the "...and others" copyright notice
    • Dani to sent request for voting
  • Dani: Switching to Jetty 9.3.x (which requires JRE 8)
    • JRE 8 from Oracle (and also from IBM) exists for all Reference Platforms
    • Except Solaris, because we only support Solaris 32-bit and the JRE only exists as 64-bit
    • But the Plan for Neon is to have 64-bit Solaris support
    • New Language features in Java 8 are adopted, contributors would like to start using Java 8
    • McQ: In the past, staying on older Java was desired to enable more widespread use ... today, this argument does not seem valid any more, in fact likely more contributions / community is enabled by moving to Java 8
    • Dani: Only concern is some "non reference" Platforms like HP-UX might not have JREs initially; but that's OK as long as the reference platforms are good
    • AGREEMENT to move to JRE 8 and allow projects to use Java 8 in their code.
  • Dani: Looking for a contributor for SWT improvements for GTK3
  • Martin: libwebkitgtk-3 on Ubuntu 14 forcing GTK 2 not working ?
    • Alex: Using libwebkitgtk-4 which is much more stable, but not implementing the full SWT API
    • Most distros don't ship libwebkit for gtk-2 any more since it's not supported upstream any more and has many security issues
  • Alex: Build SWT at the Foundation
    • Work with the Foundation going well, expect to have RHEL machines deployed at the foundation next month



July 15, 22 and 29, 2015 -- no meeting


July 8, 2015 - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Alex

  • John: Cross-Language Tooling Discussion on the eclipse.org-architecture-council and ide-dev mailing lists
  • decided to cancel the upcoming July meetings

July 1, 2015 -- no meeting


June 24, 2015 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Java 9 - <a href="http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/eclipse-java%E2%84%A2-9-support-beta-mars">EAR Feature Patch</a> on the Marketplace NOW
    • No JARs any more - JRE is doing things internally using "jimage" format; updated search etc to create projects and work against them
    • If the Jimage filesystem provider isn't backported, one has to run the IDE on Java9 in order to code Java9
    • Modules are just a list of packages (and can refer to other modules) - no real JSR describing the plan yet - seems like just a replacement of "Profiles" (and JARs)

June 17, 2015 - Dani, John, Martin, Alex


June 10, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: 4.5RC4 looking good, no more fixes planned
  • Dani: Working on Java 9 feature patch
  • Alex: PC discussing a change in the release train
    • Current common ground seems to be a request for more release points, and projects could decide whether they do features or maintenance
    • From Platform point of view, stability is key. Some key contributors not interested doing
    • Martin: How to also cater to contributors who want their contributions released soon ?
      • Martin Idea: With Tycho, building the Platform is easier so ask contributors build themselves
      • Or, open up a new "experimental" stream ?
      • Dani Idea: Market milestone builds differently, as "fully consumable" would serve the same purpose
  • Martin: Tested eclipse-installer (Oomph), looking really really good now

June 3, 2015 - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ, John

  • Dani: Mars Endgame
  • Dani: Please vote for release review

May 20, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Dani: Security Update - Platform work done, Orbit updated, reached out to Wayne and other affected projects.
  • Dani: RC2 Build - too many bugs assigned, Lars on Vacation, Dani will fill in
  • McQ: Too Many Platforms Built? - Who's really hurt by "too many builds" ?
    • Will meet with Mike & Foundation tomorrow, Alex is also interested (Dani to check).

May 13, 2015 - McQ, John, Alex, Martin

  • John, Dani - Mars Endgame looking good
  • Alex - bug 465874 Lucene 5 looking good, almost done - Ready to commit as soon as CQs are in and Mars+1 is open
  • JDT for Java 9 - will need a wider discussion with EMO on make it easier to publish the work, e.g. in normal builds

May 6, 2015 - McQ, Dani, Martin, John

  • Dani: Java 9 timing - slight delay
  • Dani: RC1 preps
    • 2-day test pass went fine - 2 severe issues found, will be addressed
    • Request to watch PMC mailing list for API exceptions and defect approvals
  • John: PC Discussion on Release Cycles
    • Multiple releases per year PLUS maintenance streams seems like overkill
    • Consider an approach like Orion that just moves constantly forward
    • Especially for the Platform, being rock solid is most important. Still to attract new contributors we need to allow more frequent "feature updates".
      • A model where both "stable/maintenance" _and_ "features" are contributed to the train might be too much work/overhead.
      • Consider a model like Ubuntu, ... with some release numbers being "stable/LTS base" and others being "in-between feature releases" ?
      • Consider a model like LTS for maintenance fixes / aside mainstream just moving forward ?


April 15, 2015 - Dani, John, McQ, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Java 1.7 Changes
    • Some bundles have been moved to a 1.7 BREE by new committers, even after API freeze
    • Rule has always been "we move up when there's a reason to move up". We won't move up without reason.
      • Dani: Moving the BREE may even cause API changes, so should only be done when incrementing the minor version (5% risk)
      • Alex: Such updates allow staying current and not get to "rewrite is needed" state (thus needed) but has to happen before M6 (API freeze)
    • Alex suggest not accepting additional changes, but not reverting either (to avoid churn)
  • Dani: Batik 1.6 update

April 8, 2015 - Dani, Martin, Alex, John, McQ

  • Dani: Batik - Platform is good, Train may need to update, perhaps updating one bundle only would suffice. John will follow up.
  • Alex: SWT for GTK 3 News
    • GTK port finally decoupled from X11 - it renders on Wayland now, can switch the renderer to a pure HTML one
    • This opens up opportunities (but depends on hosts that have GTK).



April 1, 2015 - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani (Regrets: John travelling)

  • Alex: GTK 3.16 seeing issues again - fixed some crashes, but scrolling is still entirely broken
    • SWT uses a number of things that GTK declares as "implementation detail"
  • PMC approval on piggyback CQ's (AC question forwarded by John)

March 18, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • John: EclipseCon - Bigger this year due to LocationTech (750 attendees)
    • Mark Reinhold keynote and "after-session" on Java 9
    • Much interest in Orion JS tooling / editor, also on desktop
    • Public face of Eclipse Platform at the conference was much more diverse than in the past (Lars Vogel, Max Anderson, Google ...)
  • Dani: bug 458730 Mars Plan Update
  • Dani: e4 project leadership approved by EMO
  • Dani: Szymon Brandys resigned as Platform/Resources co-lead. Need to +1 on the mailing list

March 11, 2015 - no meeting (EclipseCon)


March 4, 2015 - Dani, McQ, Martin, John

  • Dani: e4 leadership - Dani will volunteer to co-lead
  • Dani: BREEs - documentation about how to pick the EE
    • Recommending the "earliest generally supported JRE that provides the capabilities you need"
    • Would like an URL on the page pointing to the most recent plan (talking to Wayne)
  • John: greatfix contest
    • Dani: Working well - some very small contributions but some also very large (eg Customize Perspective fixes)
  • John: EclipseCon - numbers looking good; join Planning Council Breakfast as delegate for Dani

February 25, 2015 - Dani, Martin McQ

  • No topics

February 18, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Alex: Building Native Launchers
    • Current way of building is kinda unpredictable - even if getting some agreement on versions to use, results are kinda unpredictable
    • Pushing towards Hudson RHEL builders at least at the EF to get more transparency and automation - attempt to mimic the infrastructure at IBM
    • Looking at 3 primary architectures (at the EF) for Linux vs. secondary architectures (non-public builders potentially)
  • Dani: Great initiative, but other (non-EF) builders must not be broken
    • EF doesn't allow any commercial tools (but currently, e.g. Windows launchers are built with MSVS)
  • Alex is willing to spend time to get Linux builds running; but can't help with other architectures
    • Martin: great approach - for Windows, using a cross-compiler on Linux might be interesting (after Linux native works)
  • Alex: This is just phase one - getting rid of the binaries in git repos might be phase 2 (since the checked-in binaries easily cause inconsistencies between Java and Native side)
    • Martin: Checked-in binaries help consumers and contributors who just want to make a Java change
    • Dani: Checked-in binaries are also used for comparing build results for expected vs accidental changes
  • Alex: bug 459399 - Policy for recommended minimum execution environments for bundles
    • Dani: It works today
      • To run Eclipse, Java 8 or Java 9 can be used (minimum BREE has no impact)
      • To modify the source, a new JRE can be used but then the Execution Environment Descriptions need to be installed
    • Policy as discussed in the past: Each project can increase the BREE if there is a real need (such as generifying) and no upstream clients are broken
      • But don't change the BREE without justification -- changing the BREE always has some effect, such as new warnings that would need to be addressed
      • Suggested BREE for new bundles has already been changed by Lars
  • Alex: Even for bundles in "maintenance mode", old BREE causes issues for people who build from source (who have to change compilers etc)
  • No conclusion so far (Alex and Dani disagree)
  • Dani: e4 leadership
    • Mature bits being moved to Eclipse - e4 remaining as an incubator to keep alive for experiments with low entry barrier

February 11, 2015 - Dani, Alex

  • no topics

February 4, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin


January 28, 2015 - Dani, Alex, John

  • Dani: Switch Mac OS X 10.9 with 10.10 in Mars target environments
    • No objections
  • Alex: Looking for any Eclipse related activity @Fosdem

January 21, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Alex: Process for allowing non-committers extended bugzilla privileges (for bug triage)?
    • Dani: Yes a process exists. Send bugzilla username to Dani.
  • Alex: New resource for helping with SWT
  • Dani: Platform/UI co-lead
  • Dani: Solaris: Java 8 will only support 64 bits on both Intel and SPARC --> IBM SWT Team considering to invest in getting patches in for 64-bit Solaris

January 14, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • Dani: Update on Platform/UI Leadership: Daniel Rolka left IBM and for now has no time to contribute. He stepped down as co-lead and nominated Lars Vogel
  • Dani: Solaris x86 64-bit support - patches exist, but no machine available. No luck to get one from Oracle or via Eclipse Foundation. We will not support Solaris x86 64-bit unless someone makes a machine available

January 7, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • Dani: Platform/UI Leadership
  • John: Git security issue - pick up a patch for Jgit in the packages before SR2? - Mostly an EPP

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