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= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
'''February 1, 2012:''' - Dani, Martin, John
+
 
* Dani: '''No UA Committers any more''' - move UA under Platform UI such that at least somebody can apply patches
+
'''July 15, 22 and 29, 2015''' -- no meeting
** AI John check with Wayne ... UA is a subcomponent now, may not even need a move review.
+
* Dani: {{bug|343150}} git '''DenyNonFastForward'''
+
** Orion could eventually add tooling to support easy workflows in spite of deny on the repo ... but not in this release
+
** Ping on the bug again and proceed
+
* John: Decide when to switch 4.2 builds from re-using 3.x binary bundles vs full 4.x builds
+
** Today, the 4.x testsuite just tests 4.x specific stuff; things like JDT tests just run against 3.8 today
+
** Today, cannot generate Javadocs in 4.x today sine it needs the full source
+
** Today, nightlies are running 3.x only (could change to running 4.x nightlies only)
+
** Today, 3.x builds run at IBM and 4.x builds run at Eclipse.org
+
** Only few test failures left in the 4.x builds --> ready to switch
+
** AI: '''Kim''' to send 4.x test results to the mailing list, consider switching right after M5
+
** '''Performance Tests:''' Not yet run on 4.x yet - should be able to run on Denis' vserver
+
*** IBM is going to lose the physical machines for performance tests in 2 weeks ! (Going to migrate to vserver too!)
+
*** Need a new baseline
+
** Andrew: at '''FOSSLC''' in Brussels this week, going to represent Eclipse with Mike Milinkovich, Gunnar Wagenknecht and others
+
* '''Gerrit''': Platform won't jump in as an early adopter this time, wait for other projects first
+
** Not all Platform Unittests can run on Hudson today (need at least some fingerprint tests to get value from Gerrit)
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 25, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew, Dani
 
* McQ: '''Note about 4.2 on Release Train'''
 
* Andrew: '''Eclipse 4.2 for Fedora''' - Feature note written for Eclipse Juno led to some discussion at Eng.Steering Committee, but finally approved
 
* Dani: Team down by 1 but no impact (Dani is going to take over responsibilities)
 
* John: '''Build Failures in UA, Update, PDE, p2 yesterday''' after the move to Java 7... nobody watching these, need to find caretakers
 
** UA tests often fail due to a link validity checker, these can be caused by anyone
 
** Certificate Validity issue (Jar signing)
 
  
 +
'''July 8, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Alex
 +
* John: '''Cross-Language Tooling Discussion''' on the eclipse.org-architecture-council and ide-dev mailing lists
 +
* decided to cancel the upcoming July meetings
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 18, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew, Dani
+
'''July 1, 2015''' -- no meeting
* McQ: '''4.2 quality''' and next steps
+
** More resources found to enable 4.2 as the LTS base - encouraging, although some items still missing
+
** Fedora 17 think about shipping 4.2m6 (work ongoing) - that would be a large stack on top of 4.2
+
** John: '''Oracle Java 7 as Reference Platform''' now that the most severe issues are fixed (Java 6 EOL is June 2012 !) - that is Oracle, not OpenJDK
+
*** Not remove Java 6 for now
+
*** Fedora also does all tests on 7
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 11, 2012:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''June 24, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
* McQ: '''State of Presentation API's'''
+
* Dani: '''Java 9''' - <a href="http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/eclipse-java%E2%84%A2-9-support-beta-mars">EAR Feature Patch</a> on the Marketplace NOW
** Different API's in 4.2 and 3.x -- will need to deprecate API in 3.x
+
** No JARs any more - JRE is doing things internally using "jimage" format; updated search etc to create projects and work against them
** Christian suggested deleting API that's not implemented in 4.x to get compile errors ... John thinks that binary compatibility is more important
+
** If the Jimage filesystem provider isn't backported, one has to run the IDE on Java9 in order to code Java9
*** Plugins will be "mostly OK", presentation API is cosmetic anyways
+
** Modules are just a list of packages (and can refer to other modules) - no real JSR describing the plan yet - seems like just a replacement of "Profiles" (and JARs)
** McQ: get in touch with clients who use presentation API, telling them what's best to do ... often newer 4.x infrastructure is much better than trying to keep 3.x around forever
+
* Andrew: '''Cairo and GTK3'''
+
* John: '''4.2 compiling now'''
+
* Martin: '''Updated JSch-0.1.44 version''' - how to announce properly
+
** AI Martin Announce on eclipse-dev and cross-project
+
** Should also put into migrtion notes and README
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 4, 2012:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''June 17, 2015''' - Dani, John, Martin, Alex
* McQ: Pascal's note about p2 leadership .. not sure who could step in and make a commitment (may see the same fate as UA)
+
* John: '''Mars''' Platform in good shape for Mars - EPP respin for Error Reporting
** Tom Watson looking for candidates, but looks like none in McQ's team
+
* Dani: '''Crashes with Java 8''' - Potentially will add to the online README
 +
** Happens in the JIT, with latest Oracle Java 8 (with 8 Cores and very specific circumstances)
 +
** See {{Bug|465693}} - Probably https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8078262
 +
* Alex: '''XDG Application''' - looks like Docker but a similar idea
 +
** Environment description of the runtime - helps specifying the line-up of library versions that we test against and use
 +
** Big part of GNOME / GTK already pushing for it, might make sense to consider alignment
 +
** GNOME working towards compiling with a really old compiler, such that the physically identical bits can run against a large set of distros
 +
** See https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps
 +
** But if you want to try it out please read https://blogs.gnome.org/alexl/2015/06/17/testing-rawhide-apps-using-xdg-app/
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''December 14, 2011:''' - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Andrew
+
 
* API Tooling Baseline comparison 3.7 vs 4.2 -- problematic since API was copied
+
'''June 10, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
* {{bug|343150}} git '''denyNonFastForward''' ie forbid commits that rewrite history ... looking for general policy ... Eclipse Project to adopt immediately.
+
* Dani: 4.5RC4 looking good, no more fixes planned
** Andrew: Denis may roll out the change to all repos
+
* Dani: Working on Java 9 feature patch
** Resolution: Wait until after Christmas, if not rolled out by then move forward ourselves
+
* Alex: PC discussing a change in the release train
* McQ (Tom Watson): '''Leadership for p2 team'''
+
** Current common ground seems to be a request for more release points, and projects could decide whether they do features or maintenance
* John: '''4.2 Builder switching to Hudson for M5''' - not all of the UI tests compile
+
** From Platform point of view, stability is key. Some key contributors not interested doing
** Lot of test failures
+
** Martin: How to also cater to contributors who want their contributions released soon ?
** Just flip the switch to Hudson, and live with failures at some point ... (and commit to fixing test failures as fast as we can)
+
*** Martin Idea: With Tycho, building the Platform is easier so ask contributors build themselves
** Fixing a components' test is the component team's job.
+
*** Or, open up a new "experimental" stream ?
* Vacations: '''Skip next 2 weeks'''
+
*** Dani Idea: Market milestone builds differently, as "fully consumable" would serve the same purpose
 +
* Martin: Tested eclipse-installer (Oomph), looking really really good now
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''December 7, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin
+
'''June 3, 2015''' - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
* Martin: {{bug|365908}} with 4.2m4 not picking up extensions from dropins/
+
* Dani: '''Mars Endgame'''
* John / Dani - XML problems breaking the build due to a "Help Index Generation" ant task
+
* Dani: Please vote for release review
* John / Anrew - '''Hudson Failures''', Platform fortunately not there
+
** Reasons: Hudson can't tag and can't deploy to downloads
+
** John: It makes sense that the Hudson user can't write to the Repo
+
** Orion: Start from a shellscript (for tagging), then kick off a Hudson build partway through
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''November 30, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin, McQ
+
'''May 20, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
* Andrew - '''Long Term Support'''. McQ - Overlap is in the build technology, can't be done for Juno (still busy with git + hudson), but happy to consume what's being developed
+
* Dani: '''Security Update''' - Platform work done, Orbit updated, reached out to Wayne and other affected projects.
** Foundation contracted with Sonatype (Igor) for moving to Tycho, but just analyzing the current build may take 4 months
+
* Dani: '''RC2 Build''' - too many bugs assigned, Lars on Vacation, Dani will fill in
** Linuxtools currently using a small ant wrapper which just calls the Platform build (generate a source tarball such that linux distros can consume Platform from source;
+
* McQ: '''Too Many Platforms Built?''' - Who's really hurt by "too many builds" ?
* Martin - '''User Assistance Situation'''
+
** Will meet with Mike & Foundation tomorrow, Alex is also interested (Dani to check).
** Chris G moved to Jazz - Rest of the IBM team completely maxed already, would fix critical security defects only
+
** Some work has been done by other IBM committers.. could release patches, but can't be responsive to fixes
+
** There's an opportunity for others in the Community to step in and set the direction
+
** McQ: The only one most important issue at the moment is compliance with the new US Government accessibility regulations
+
** Newer Lucene; Help Search Stemming problems; nobody actively tracking the inbox
+
** John: Have been moving "committer-less" components into the general Platform component where 12+ committers have commit rights
+
** McQ: Platform project Zombies is OK, but having somebody step up would be better
+
** John: 3rd party dependencies... help has a few, eg upgrading to Jetty (managed by Chris before he left)
+
*** Lucene: Merged with SOLR, then 3 releases came out in the past 3 months, no Foundation CQ's in ... John interested in adopting Orion
+
*** Been in contact with Gunnar Wagenknecht who is also interested, but newer Lucene pulls in more dependencies than it needs
+
** Failing Search : would need an exact bug report where the search is failing, then McQ could get product teams excited
+
** John: Orion problem with older lucene is that it's leaking file handles ... less of a problem for Platform where we index only once
+
* John - {{bug|363948}} '''Eclipse 3.8 to 4.2 update'''
+
** Fix would involve changing metadata in p2 such that a 3.8 update wouldn't find 4.2 automatically, unless a specific update is requested
+
** That fix leverages what Pascal from p2 considers a bug
+
** Products could manage the problem by not adding the Juno repository.. but there's lots of things in Juno that people would want (eg egit, cdt, ...)
+
*** Fix that John thinks about would be on the product level
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''November 23, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew
+
'''May 13, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Martin
* Discussion of whether to turn on auto-tagging in maintenance builds. General agreement this is a good idea. We would not have a separate "integration" branch for maintenance streams.
+
* John, Dani - Mars Endgame looking good
* Some discussion of EclipseCon submissions. PC voting is underway and program should be decided in the next two weeks. There is a great program of submissions so far, and it will be tough to select the talks that will make the cut.
+
* Alex - {{bug|465874}} Lucene 5 looking good, almost done - Ready to commit as soon as CQs are in and Mars+1 is open
 +
* JDT for Java 9 - will need a wider discussion with EMO on make it easier to publish the work, e.g. in normal builds
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''October 26, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Andrew, McQ
+
'''May 6, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
 +
* Dani: '''Java 9 timing''' - slight delay
 +
* Dani: RC1 preps
 +
** 2-day test pass went fine - 2 severe issues found, will be addressed
 +
** Request to watch PMC mailing list for API exceptions and defect approvals
 +
* John: '''PC Discussion on Release Cycles'''
 +
** Multiple releases per year PLUS maintenance streams seems like overkill
 +
** Consider an approach like Orion that just moves constantly forward
 +
** Especially for the Platform, being rock solid is most important. Still to attract new contributors we need to allow more frequent "feature updates".
 +
*** A model where both "stable/maintenance" _and_ "features" are contributed to the train might be too much work/overhead.
 +
*** Consider a model like Ubuntu, ... with some release numbers being "stable/LTS base" and others being "in-between feature releases" ?
 +
*** Consider a model like LTS for maintenance fixes / aside mainstream just moving forward ?
  
* Approve Paul Webster as Platform UI project lead
+
 
** Committer vote [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-ui-dev/msg04980.html here].
+
'''April 15, 2015''' - Dani, John, McQ, Alex, Martin
** The PMC members unanimously approve this nomination
+
* Dani: '''Java 1.7 Changes'''
** John to send note to EMO
+
** Some bundles have been moved to a 1.7 BREE by new committers, even after API freeze
* Some discussion of the Eclipse Platform UI Git disaster - {{bug|361707}}
+
** Rule has always been "we move up when there's a reason to move up". We won't move up without reason.
** Currently any committer can delete everything from the repository permanently
+
*** Dani: Moving the BREE may even cause API changes, so should only be done when incrementing the minor version (5% risk)
** The commit hook prevents committers from restoring commits made by others that they have in their local clone
+
*** Alex: Such updates allow staying current and not get to "rewrite is needed" state (thus needed) but has to happen before M6 (API freeze)
**  
+
** Alex suggest not accepting additional changes, but not reverting either (to avoid churn)
 +
* Dani: '''Batik 1.6 update'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''October 12, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ
+
'''April 8, 2015''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, John, McQ
* PMC upstaffing - looking for more Community input
+
* Dani: '''Batik''' - Platform is good, Train may need to update, perhaps updating one bundle only would suffice. John will follow up.
* egit bug backlog
+
* Alex: '''SWT for GTK 3 News'''
* e4 builds
+
** GTK port finally decoupled from X11 - it renders on Wayland now, can switch the renderer to a pure HTML one
* p2 downloadable archived repos
+
** This opens up opportunities (but depends on hosts that have GTK).
* Moving to 4.x
+
 
** Community is moving ... any product that's not planned for EOL needs to move
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''October 5, 2011:''' - Dani, John, McQ
+
'''April 1, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani (Regrets: John travelling)
* Some discussion of removing CVS from the SDK ({{bug|359466}}). There is no strong argument for removing it, so it is hard to argue for disruption to user community. In the end we would like CVS to be removed and would like it to be just as easy to install any SCM into the platform. We would like to see the p2 discovery UI used to make it trivial to add SCM support into SDK (Help > Add Version Control > CVS). Once we had that in place we would be in a better position to remove CVS by default.
+
* Alex: '''GTK 3.16''' seeing issues again - fixed some crashes, but scrolling is still entirely broken
* We also discussed the Git line delimiter problems. Current recommendation:
+
** SWT uses a number of things that GTK declares as "implementation detail"
** core.autocrlf=false - not honoured by JGit so this makes things worse
+
* PMC approval on piggyback CQ's (AC question forwarded by John)
** Use Global workspace setting to use Unix line feeds by default
+
** Dani sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02332.html our position] to John in order to update the AC
** Encourage projects to add a project-specific setting to use Unix line feeds
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 21, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Martin
+
'''March 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
* Dani: '''git''' - Mac / Linux using scripts, tooling not yet ready for Windows ... productivity lacks
+
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - Bigger this year due to LocationTech (750 attendees)
** painful when working across multiple repositories ... problematic workflow for reviewing incoming changes
+
** Mark Reinhold keynote and "after-session" on Java 9
** John: egit could fetch automatically in the background (without merge)
+
** Much interest in Orion JS tooling / editor, also on desktop
* John: '''used platforms poll'''
+
** Public face of Eclipse Platform at the conference was much more diverse than in the past (Lars Vogel, Max Anderson, Google ...)
** Results visible once voted: [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/platform-poll.php platform-poll.php]
+
* Dani: {{bug|458730}} '''Mars Plan Update'''
 +
* Dani: '''e4 project leadership''' approved by EMO
 +
* Dani: Szymon Brandys resigned as Platform/Resources co-lead. Need to +1 on the mailing list
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 14, 2011:''' - John, McQ, Dani, Martin
+
 
* Martin: '''PMC membership''' - still looking for people to ask after Steve and Jeff left
+
'''March 11, 2015 - no meeting (EclipseCon)'''
* John: '''Jetty 8''' - should be using Jetty from Eclipse (Jetty 7 ist stable, Jetty 8 is current) but API changes after Jetty 6
+
** eg standalone help - AI John to ping Chris G;
+
** No longer re-exporting Jetty API since 3.6 (deprecated api, introduced replacements)
+
** releng, would need Jetty at -1 if using current from train .. makes builds a bit more messy again
+
** check with Equinox
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 7, 2011:''' - John, McQ
+
 
* State of building Juno at eclipse.org: we are close but still some issues with the tests. Transition to Git halted our progress on this. Once the Git migration is complete, we should just make the switch over and live with the pain of some failing tests. Component teams will need to help with diagnosing problems with their tests.
+
'''March 4, 2015''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, John
 +
* Dani: '''e4 leadership''' - Dani will volunteer to co-lead
 +
* Dani: '''BREEs''' - documentation about how to pick the EE
 +
** Recommending the "earliest generally supported JRE that provides the capabilities you need"
 +
** Would like an URL on the page pointing to the most recent plan (talking to Wayne)
 +
* John: '''greatfix contest'''
 +
** Dani: Working well - some very small contributions but some also very large (eg Customize Perspective fixes)
 +
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - numbers looking good; join Planning Council Breakfast as delegate for Dani
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 31, 2011:''' - Dani, John
+
'''February 25, 2015''' - Dani, Martin McQ
 +
* No topics
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''February 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* Alex: '''Building Native Launchers'''
 +
** Current way of building is kinda unpredictable - even if getting some agreement on versions to use, results are kinda unpredictable
 +
** Pushing towards Hudson RHEL builders at least at the EF to get more transparency and automation - attempt to mimic the infrastructure at IBM
 +
** Looking at 3 primary architectures (at the EF) for Linux vs. secondary architectures (non-public builders potentially)
 +
* Dani: Great initiative, but other (non-EF) builders must not be broken
 +
** EF doesn't allow any commercial tools (but currently, e.g. Windows launchers are built with MSVS)
 +
* Alex is willing to spend time to get Linux builds running; but can't help with other architectures
 +
** Martin: great approach - for Windows, using a cross-compiler on Linux might be interesting (after Linux native works)
 +
* Alex: This is just phase one - getting rid of the binaries in git repos might be phase 2 (since the checked-in binaries easily cause inconsistencies between Java and Native side)
 +
** Martin: Checked-in binaries help consumers and contributors who just want to make a Java change
 +
** Dani: Checked-in binaries are also used for comparing build results for expected vs accidental changes
 +
 
 +
* Alex: '''{{bug|459399}} - Policy for recommended minimum execution environments for bundles'''
 +
** Dani: It works today
 +
*** To run Eclipse, Java 8 or Java 9 can be used (minimum BREE has no impact)
 +
*** To modify the source, a new JRE can be used but then the Execution Environment Descriptions need to be installed
 +
** Policy as discussed in the past: Each project can increase the BREE if there is a real need (such as generifying) and no upstream clients are broken
 +
*** But don't change the BREE without justification -- changing the BREE always has some effect, such as new warnings that would need to be addressed
 +
*** Suggested BREE for new bundles has already been changed by Lars
 +
* Alex: Even for bundles in "maintenance mode", old BREE causes issues for people who build from source (who have to change compilers etc)
 +
* No conclusion so far (Alex and Dani disagree)
  
* We need to pull the new ICU4J out of maintenance release because the fix didn't pass review in time. We will defer to Indigo SR2
+
* Dani: '''e4 leadership'''
* Some discussion of the treatment of tags in Git vs CVS. Committers need to be aware they can't checkout the contents of a particular build into their workspace all at once.
+
** Mature bits being moved to Eclipse - e4 remaining as an incubator to keep alive for experiments with low entry barrier
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''February 11, 2015''' - Dani, Alex
 +
* no topics
  
'''August 24, 2011:''' - Dani, John
+
<hr/>
* EGit is far behind on level of polish, usability, robustness, conforming to UI guidelines, etc. We may need to make contributions to avoid it hurting productivity
+
 
* Proposed workflow changes in bugzilla 4.0: {{bug|337245}}. Proposing removing NEW, ASSIGNED and CLOSED states which would lose valuable information for us.
+
'''February 4, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* Alex: With GTK-3.15.[345] , Eclipse is entirely unusable
 +
** Alex has some dirty workarounds to make it start, but still many issues like trees not painted, ...
 +
** Crash on startup identified to be GTK bug. Fix to be released in 3.15.6 https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=edec64cda3d4518b4e87d5ea5d287d4570ba9933
 +
* Dani: Working on Solaris 64-bit
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
'''August 10, 2011:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''January 28, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, John
* Dani / Martin - '''Debug Flexible Hierarchy "provisional.api" namespace'''
+
* Dani: Switch Mac OS X 10.9 with 10.10 in Mars target environments
** Cannot be moved into an "API" namespace without breaking external non-SDK clients since types are leaked from internal packages
+
** No objections
** Q1: Move framework to a place outside Debug?
+
* Alex: Looking for any Eclipse related activity @Fosdem
** Q2: Declare "internal" packages as API? - API Tools won't be usable
+
<hr/>
** McQ: Is it really impossible to add new API in parallel while keeping the old one in place for now?
+
 
*** Issues: (1) Performance, (2) bugs due to delegating, (3) is it worth doing that work? CDT already marked x-friends - Debug could offer the same for other clients.
+
'''January 21, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
** McQ: Do we anticipate a huge Community out there just waiting for stuff to become full API? Then it's probably worth it...
+
* Alex: '''Process for allowing non-committers extended bugzilla privileges (for bug triage)?'''
*** But at this point any potential consumers already consume, so it's likely not worth the pain of renaming
+
** Dani: Yes a process exists. Send bugzilla username to Dani.
*** Dani's suggestion: Go into a separate bundle and re-export, such that clients don't need debug
+
* Alex: '''New resource for helping with SWT'''
** John: Unless packages were intended to be API from the beginning, it's likely not API quality (that's likely also why Boris didn't want it in Jface)
+
* Dani: '''Platform/UI co-lead'''
** Martin: Would really want to see namespace refactored... quality standards..
+
* Dani: Solaris: Java 8 will only support 64 bits on both Intel and SPARC --&gt; IBM SWT Team considering to invest in getting patches in for 64-bit Solaris
** John: Had the experience in p2, it was much more than just package renaming
+
*** Very painful for user community, but in the end produced a much better results (but p2 was very young at that time)
+
** McQ: Can we provide backward compatible versions in parallel to the new namespace? We CANNOT break consumers.
+
*** Renaming only makes sense if mirroring/proxying is possible.
+
*** Lots of consumers in the old form, how many new consumers would we gain in the new form?
+
** Martin: Create a fork / clone on the UI side for new consumers, as real API?
+
*** McQ: Only makes sense if there's a community just waiting to pick this up.
+
*** Dani: Debug itself could not move to the new framework without breaking clients ... so we'd not have any clients inside the SDK
+
** McQ: It's non-trivial work, and before starting it we'd need to verify there's consumers for it
+
** Learnings from the past: Not keep stuff in provisional for so long any more
+
** Resolution: '''Pawel to find consumers for a refactored new bundle, then decide if / how to do the work'''
+
* Dani: '''Java 7 - Segfault due to loop optimizations''' ([http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/08/java7-hotspot details])
+
** Occurs a lot inside Apache Lucene, how to communicate that?
+
** McQ: send to eclipse-dev and cross-project
+
** Oracle aware of the issue - working on an early refresh, workaround exists (disable loop optimizations via -XX:-UseLoopPredicate)
+
** Another JIT bug was fixed by Oracle before GA because we reported it
+
** AI Dani '''Talk to Oracle when an update can be expected, soon send a message to eclipse-dev / cross-project'''
+
* Vacation notices:
+
** Martin: away from August 14 to September 1
+
** McQ: away from August 22 to September 5
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 3, 2011:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
+
'''January 14, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
* Dani - successfully moved Java 7 support to 3.7.1, 3.8, 4.1.1 and 4.2 streams
+
* Dani: Update on Platform/UI Leadership: Daniel Rolka left IBM and for now has no time to contribute. He stepped down as co-lead and nominated Lars Vogel
 +
* Dani: Solaris x86 64-bit support - patches exist, but no machine available. No luck to get one from Oracle or via Eclipse Foundation. We will not support Solaris x86 64-bit unless someone makes a machine available
 +
<hr/>
  
 +
'''January 7, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 +
* Dani: '''Platform/UI Leadership'''
 +
* John: '''Git security issue''' - pick up a patch for Jgit in the packages before SR2? - Mostly an EPP
 +
<hr/>
 +
 +
'''December 17, 2014''' - McQ, John, Dani
 +
* Platform UI leadership to be discussed in the next PMC call
 +
* no call on December 24 and December 31
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 27, 2011:''' - Dani, John, McQ
+
'''December 10, 2014''' - Alex, McQ, John, Dani, Martin
* Discussed how many versions back PDE should support development on. Historically we used N-2 but currently it is N-7. The layers of compatibility are starting to become hard to manage. We agreed dropping support for versions prior to 3.6 is ok if there is a benefit in doing so (cleans up PDE, makes the situation less confusing for end user, etc). However PDE must handle existing plugins with old version numbers in the plugin.xml (possibly with a warning and a quick fix to update/remove the number).
+
* Dani: {{bug|427768}} Mickael (Red Hat) - Nested Project support contribution to Common Navigator to better support Maven projects
* We have some rough days ahead: first release train milestone on 4.x, ongoing build pain from Git migration, merge of Java 7 into mainline, and lots of people on holidays. Hold onto your hats!
+
* Dani: Red Hat also will wants to contribute making the Import easier {{bug|421930}}. First in the e4 incubator.
 +
** Just import from a folder, and contribute project configurators via extension point (e.g. detect POM files, Makefiles, ...)
 +
** McQ: Many complexities ... different users may want very different things to happen
 +
*** McQ: Just point to a Git repo -- the Git repo has a little metadata file at the root which allows launching the apps that the repo had been intended for ... maybe just make the project tree(s) a little more self-describing
 +
*** Is there a growing list of repos which already have that? - John: In the Java world, pom.xml is getting that ...  
 +
*** Alex: .doap getting this (at least for Apache and GNOME projects - specifies at least the languages used)
 +
* Web IDEs : McQ and others gone through a lot of analysis of Web IDE's
 +
** Cloud9 has a much larger set of starting points ; in terms of the underlying core structure, Orion (and also Jay) are more interesting
 +
** Orion has an extremely lightweight plug-in model: pieces coming from all over the world may look like all running on the server - nice infrastructure for building Community around it
 +
** Orion + Flux could be a rival for anything out there
 +
** Orion continues to push on the Core Coding experience - Orion Editor is on par or better than most desktop editors
 +
* Vision: See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-vision/msg00065.html Minutes on the platform-vision mailing list] ... Delivery will depend on people actually participating
  
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''December 3, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, John (McQ travelling)
 +
* John: [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-vision/ Platform Vision] - How to turn that into actionable items, Wayne wants to present to the Board
 +
* John: '''Performance tests''' running again since a couple weeks, now the graphs are also back again :)
 +
** See http://download.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/drops4/I20141202-0800/performance.php
 +
** Results are there but fingerprints currently missing
 +
** Baseline is 4.4.0 at the moment (consider comparing against 3.x at some point)
 +
** John: From experience, a single result isn't helpful, there's often weird anomalies from build to build ... need to look at trends over multiple builds, thus the graphs are really useful
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 20, 2011:''' - Dani, Martin, John, Jeff
+
'''November 26, 2014''' - Alex, Dani
* Dani - '''p2 Installer {{bug|317785}}''' affects Java 7 users - when they want to update it looks like they are dead
+
* No relevant topics / decisions
** Regression test only fails once every 100 times .. might be more often in the wild
+
** Might need some note on the download page (clickthrough) - people dont read the readme
+
* John - '''git migration''' - parts from git / parts from CVS isn't that bad for now
+
  
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''November 19, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, Dani  (''McQ and John had issues dialing in'')
 +
* Dani: '''Jetty 9''' - Upgrade has been done, but new versions coming out ... will probably update from Jetty 9.2.3 to Jetty 9.2.5. Probably 9.3
 +
** WTP interested in newer Jetty version ... need to agree on a common version across the Release Train.
 +
** Alex: New Jetty JSP compiler failing ... filed a bug, will want this fixed (Jetty working on it)
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|179924}} Request for ssh-agent''' - patch against Team from YMNK (JSch Committer)
 +
** egit would contribute the agent, but would make more sense putting it in Platform (+1 from Martin, no objection from Alex)
 +
* Equinox Declarative Services implementation - ProSyst stopped providing fixes, not responsive any more
 +
** New specificiation (R6) from OSGi adding lot of features, cannot risk staying behind
 +
** Suggestion to remove the ProSyst stuff and replace it with the Apache Felix implementation (used by IBM / WebSphere and others)
 +
** Martin: How mature / stable is the Felix code ? Can we influence it ?
 +
*** Dani: Very mature. Have more influence on Felix than on the Prosyst stuff ... through the IBM committers and others.
 +
*** Alex agrees. Using some parts of Felix already.
 +
* John (via Dani): '''Move e4 into Platform/UI''' - would like to start the review process next week.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 13, 2011:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
+
'''November 5, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
* Want more Community involvement in the Eclipse PMC - "outside representation" in addition to companies with a commercial interest
+
* Eclipse Foundation greatbugs initiative - call into PMC
* nice Java 7 webcast last week - Mike Milinkovich mentions our Eclipse Java 7 Support (BETA)
+
* Dani: EclipseCon Europe Report - met lot of people, best attended EclipseCon Europe ever :)
 +
** IOT; IDE in the Web; are people moving away from Eclipse before the transition to Web can be completed ?
 +
* Alex: Discussion with Christian Campo on scaling up
 +
** Should better go into SWT ... but SWT has a reputation that it's hard getting a change in -- people prefer re-doing things their own than contributing :(
 +
** Alex thinks this problem doesn't exist any more ... but how to fight this misconception ?
 +
** John: Getting a change in may now be hard due to other reasons, eg lack of experienced committers
 +
** Alex: Consider voting in new committers more easily if somebody is interested ?
 +
* Alex: Difference between Eclipse and the Linux Foundation
 +
** Linux Foundation doesn't provide anything that anybody can use directly (just a source tarball) --&gt; all users become "contributors" of some sort
 +
** This leads to different expectations and has a number advantages (eg issues are reported to and worked on by member companies only)
 +
 
 +
'''October 22, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, John
 +
* Platform plan update nearly done, will be released soon
 +
* Orion release review is ongoing, release will be next week
 +
* Brief discussion of new bug reporting tool and related bug [https://dev.eclipse.org/recommenders/committers/dashboard/#/dashboard/temp/e6leTB3gQy-zUZI-73KtRQ dashboard]
 +
* PMC called '''canceled''' next week due to EclipseCon Europe
 +
 
 +
'''October 1, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ
 +
* Dani - In touch with Oracle regarding Solaris x86
 +
* McQ - '''Platform UI''' tension between making Platform UI as stable as possible, versus new features
 +
** Community forming for new contributions - that's great! - But takes committer's time; committers reduced to "productize and fix" is problematic
 +
** how to get more contributions for bug fixes ?
 +
*** Alex: What about saying "This release we only accept bug fixes" ? Or for some milestone, eg after M4 only accept bug fixes ?
 +
*** Dani: Sounds great, but will the Community accept that ? - JDT BugBash did not work that well...
 +
*** Dani to prepare a draft message
 +
* Dani was in Bangalore - talked to Arun - good collaboration with Alex
 +
** Hard to get new SWT developers (Sami moving away on RH side)
 +
** Ideas to keep SWT relevant ... eg generate Browser based things
 +
*** GTK3 supports running in a browser now... (just one label for now, but an interesting approach)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 6, 2011:''' - John, Dani, Martin
+
'''September 24, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, John, Martin
* Dani - on track with Java 7 work; Oracle interested in having good Eclipse support
+
* John: '''SWT Binaries Repository''' has got too big
* git migration - Platform UI likely going to move this week
+
** Will prune old versions out of the git repository (which is only used internally) - "Release" drops will still be available from release builds.
** Paul has a tool for gathering build notes from git (currently a commandline script)
+
** '''DECISION:''' OK to prune.
 +
* '''SWT master still has sources for old Platforms''' like carbon and motif - cluttering up the source code
 +
** '''DECISION:''' OK to remove references - source would remain in git for old branches, but not be visible in master any more.
 +
* Dani: '''p2 and Equinox''' - no sign-off for M2, leaders stepping down ?
 +
** consider moving p2 back into Equinox, and probably Equinox back into the Eclipse project ?
 +
** John: Equinox committers not really knowledgeable about p2 ... still, with less than 3 active committers a threshold is reached (can't hold elections any more)
 +
** Still there's a couple of people contributing, so there are knowledgeable folk around
 +
** Dani: If there's committers committing code, they should also be responsible for sign-off
 +
* Dani: '''Java 7 and Jetty 9'''
 +
** Been using Jetty 8 for a while, now, there is Community Pressure upgrading to Jetty 9 but that requires Java 7
 +
** Java 6 no longer getting public updates since February 2013
 +
** John:Adoptions needed in the Help System when moving to Jetty 9 ?
 +
*** Alex don't think so - been shipping Jetty 9 for over a year already; only required changing some dependencies.
 +
*** '''ACTION ITEM: Alex offered to check this'''
 +
* Alex: '''Drop all the Java 6 Platforms from the list of Reference Platforms?'''
 +
** '''DECISION:''' Yes this needs to be done. Trying to support Java 6 won't buy any benefit at this point.
  
<hr id="20110615"/>
+
<hr/>
'''June 15, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Jeff
+
'''September 17, 2014''' - no meeting
* John - '''git migration''': should egit be part of the SDK ?
+
** Build-time circular dependencies. Keep SDK small, but make it a very simple and obvious step to obtain egit.
+
** It's already easy to update - milestone to mileston SDK update is a single step for SDK + egit.
+
* John - '''git migration''' and the mapfiles
+
** In orion, just tag HEAD of the build branch
+
** Dani: need to make sure that build notes can still be created
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 1, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani
+
'''September 10, 2014''' - John, Martin, Alex, Dani
* Some discussion of proposed Eclipse Foundation security policy
+
* John: Mars having some build hickups due to removing Mac 32-bit builds
* We still want to see the disclosure time-frame being 3 months after the release containing the fix. Not all of our consumer community has the build technology or expertise to apply source patches to their products. Making sure the fix is in a maintenance release is the only practical way for some people to consume fixes
+
* John: Luna SR1 - almost done, respinning for 2 bugs in Equinox
* It would be nice for critical security fixes to appear in the simultaneous release repository even after the SR2 time period. p2 would need some small amount of work to be able to flag critical/security patches and automatically notify the user about them being available. Nobody has signed up to do this work.
+
* John: Cloud TLP (for Orion and others) - still on track for announcing end October
* Some discussion of Git migration. There is no need to move everything at once since our build can handle homogeneous inputs from both CVS and Git. One possibility is migrating Equinox as a first step. The most complicated piece is migrating the repository containing the builder itself. We will need to decide on where map files and documentation go: likely some kind of "common" repository for Eclipse TLP.
+
* Alex: Been busy with other stuff recently, back on the GTK version support discussion this week
 +
** Martin: Many people will know what distro they have (or need), but not what GTK they have on there
 +
*** John: Also running GTK on AIX, Solaris, Linux Power and other which are not moving up that fast...
 +
*** Martin: Examples: RHEL 5.8 was GTK 2.10.4-21 ; RHEL 4.5 was at GTK 2.4.13-22
 +
*** Popular distros would be Ubuntu LTS, RHEL, OpenSUSE
 +
** Alex: Newer distros have up to 3 GTK versions installed, along with some means to switch between them, it's very confusing
 +
** Eclipse is the only project that dynamically loads DLL's and tries to support a broad range ... others typically compile against a specific version
 +
*** Most projects require GTK 2.24
 +
** John: GTK versions are not really predictable ... between 3.04 and 3.10 there was a breaking change
 +
** Alex: In every release there are small issues that we work around; and there's certain releases that are breaking stuff
 +
** '''NEXT ACTION: Send E-Mail'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 25, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
'''September 3, 2014''' - John, Alex, Dani
* Missing CQ's for old legacy stuff in old update sites / repos
+
* Dani: away next week and on/off the next two weeks due to travel
** No problem for ZIP's (we can move to archive)
+
* Dani: RC4 next week. PMC please watch the PMC mailing list
** OK with removing some legacy old stuff... How many years back to keep old stuff?
+
** John: will be available and monitor the mailing list
* Java 7 and 3.7.1
+
* Dani: Oracle interested in providing access to a Solaris 64-bit machine {{bug|442266}}
** Mike M OK with including in 3.7.1 (when it's stable enough)
+
* John: How/where to graduate the e4 tools
 +
** the community wants to graduate this out of incubation
 +
** initially proposed to create a separate project, but feels like adding too much overhead
 +
** John: proposed PDE as home, then Dani suggested to use Platform UI
 +
** Alex, Dani and John agree to suggest Platform UI as home for the e4 tools.
 +
** John to send a note to Lars
 +
* Alex: Limit supported number of GTK+ versions
 +
** SWT currently has to support over 20 different version. This doesn't scale.
 +
** Proposal: Bump min supported version with one minor release each release. Aka Luna has Gtk 2.10 as min, Mars would have 2.12 as min. Can consider even two minor releases (Mars requires 2.14) as this would keep the amount of supported versions the same as GTK releases one minor release every 6 months.
 +
** Dani, John: this is too limiting. We tended to support the most possible. Newest versions might have too many bugs.
 +
** All agree: we'd like to limit the amount of supported versions
 +
** Alex to cast a poll via Eclipse Foundation, which versions are used by users and companies
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 4, 2011:''' - Jeff, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
 
  
* RC1 test pass went well overall
+
'''August 27, 2014''' - cancelled
* Investigating an SWT blocker preventing checkbox tables from working
+
* There is a problem with the Ant mail task with Ant 1.8. Ant mail requires an optional extra jar to be added. In Ant 1.7 this didn't cause build to fail, but in Ant 1.8 it does. Our conclusion was to document in the migration guide but take no other action.
+
* Git migration:
+
** Kim and DJ are investigating migration of the build to Git. Making progress but don't have a full build working yet
+
** We should consider summer 2011 for migration. For those teams with forked code between 3.x/4.x, they are finding it difficult to keep fixes in sync and potentially git can help with that.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 27, 2011:''' - Jeff, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
 
* Dani '''still 100 bugs tagged 3.7''' - need to remind in the archcall to properly tag target milestones
+
'''August 20, 2014''' - John, Alex, Dani
* John '''EDL for Examples'''
+
* Dani: new platform PowerPC 64-bit LE {{bug|441358 }}
** Value of examples is they're there to be used - there's no business value in holding on to IP via Copyright so EDL seems right
+
** maintained by IBM
** Re-licensing existing examples is difficult (eg SWT examples); but new examples should go under EDL
+
** will be added to 4.4.1 as early access
** Including examples in distributed features must take care of fixing abouts
+
** Dani to send a note to cross-platform
* John '''3.7 plan final update''': all plan items committed or deferred; update to RH6
+
* Dani: individual made patches to support Solaris 64-bit {{bug|442266}}
 +
** we'd like to add it but don't have a machine to support it
 +
** important because our current 32-bit Solaris build will become obselete since there's no 32-bit JRE for Java 7 and beyond
 +
** Oracle should be interested since they provide both, Java and Solaris
 +
** Dani to ask Oracle
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 20, 2011:''' - Jeff, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
 
* Jeff,Martin '''Builds at Eclipse''' - Work ongoing. IBM Mac has been donated. Mac testing has problems with some weird vnc bug
+
'''August 13, 2014''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
** Martin - could kick a 3.6.2+ build and artifacts OK, but confused by lots of warning messages. Kim responded immediately, but can this be made "more official" ?
+
* Dani: Any feedback for the [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_5.xml Mars plan]?
** Public Builds - get the engineering underpinnings in place, then polish afterwards
+
** McQ:
** Won't get a lot better in 3.7 but could make it a plan item for 3.8
+
*** It does not cover Orion, but that is OK and like in previous release plans. Orion will most likely be moved to another top-level project soon.
** John agrees that improving the warning messages to be more informative is a good thing - Kim's very helpful
+
*** We want to remove Mac OS X Universal 32-bit (all agreed)
* Dani '''Polish Bug to be prioritized''': {{bug|342648}} In SWT on Linux, RTL mode, Tree.getItem(Point) gives invalid result.
+
* Dani: How to deal with requests to push our bundles to repo.eclipse.org {{bug|441530}}
** Regression ?
+
** Dani: OK for me but we won't do the work
** McQ: Every GTK version needs work - maybe it's specific to a new GTK; might be more than a P2
+
** Alex: Maven needs the dependencies in the pom.xml. We don't want copy them from the manifest into the pom.xml and then maintain this. The pom should be updated when publishing the file into the Maven repo. Ideally by an automated task.
 +
** Conclusion: all agree with this, i.e. we won't do the actual work and we won't "pollute" our pom files.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 13, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani, Jeff
+
'''August 6, 2014''' - McQ, Dani
* John: reminder to review proposed project charter update
+
* Dani: Will provide initial Mars plan next week
* Freeze plan for Indigo is ready
+
 
* Reviewed new polish items
+
 
* Investigating some 4.1 compatibility problems, possibly related to EMF changes
+
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''No meetings in July'''
 +
  
'''March 30, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani
 
* Discussed and clarified the API approval guidelines. Will be announced in the arch call.
 
* Dani - Java 7 deferred from 3.7. GA planned together with 3.7.1.
 
** John: is feature work which might need review
 
* John - we need to prepare the Git migration
 
** John to ask DJ to do investigations
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''Jun 4, 2014''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''RC4 Status''' looking good
 +
** 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
 +
** Rest of the team working on docs
 +
** Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
 +
* John: '''Went over the N&N''' ... number of things went in after M7 :)
 +
** Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way
 +
  
'''March 23, 2011:''' - McQ, Dani
 
* Prioritized the [[Polish3.7]] list. This is a recurring task for the next few weeks.
 
* Discussed and agreed on API change approval process, see [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg01368.html PMC mailing list note].
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''Jun 11, 2014''' - Martin, McQ, Alex, John
 +
* John: Eclipse Theming: When switching the OS Theme to dark, Eclipse should be aware
 +
** Dark Theme is currently a tech preview
  
'''March 9, 2011:''' - John, McQ
 
  
* Ongoing discussion of direction for 2012 release train. Will continue discussion in email to ensure all PMC members are involved.
+
<hr/>
 +
'''Jun 4, 2014''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''RC4 Status''' looking good
 +
** 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
 +
** Rest of the team working on docs
 +
** Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
 +
* John: '''Went over the N&N''' ... number of things went in after M7 :)
 +
** Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 2, 2011:'''
+
'''May 28, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
* McQ - Migrating to 4.x. Don't be disruptive when there is no need to. Want to avoid migration pain.
+
* Dani: '''EOL'ing the Delta Pack''' - announce now, remove during Mars - it's been obsoleted by p2 functionality
** New feature work will be in 4.x, but as long as there are committers working on 3.x it will stay alive
+
** Alex: Some of the test suite relied on the delta pack, it caused issues, OK with removing (PDE tests would need to be cleaned up)
** Make sure that quality keeps up: Releng / Build, make long-term committers continue reviewing contributions
+
* Dani: '''Copyright Updates''' - tool is very slow since not ported from CVS properly, can run for hours
** Problem with 4.x is just the bugs (impeding productivity), it's not anything architectural
+
** John: Worth doing periodically but probably won't matter legally since copyright lasts for 7 years
** '''Convene again next week and come up with a consistent message''', AI McQ get hold of Jeff for a statement
+
** The change is not without risk (Dani: Could schedule after the release)
* John - '''3.6.2+ builds''' set up on Hudson now
+
** McQ: Should consider updating the tool as part of that work
** Kim's {{bug|338557}} Job's mostly ready, Martin is the first tester. Should inform the Community once things go smoothly
+
** Alex: Has a new intern, could use this as an opportunity to join
** Updating version numbers like going to a virtual never-existing "3.6.3" release in order to give a clear and consistent message
+
* Dani: '''RC3 status''' - last planned build - looking good, except for Platform UI, where the list of bugs is still long
** Dani has an (internal) document - Martin: interested for TM and CDT projects - '''AI Dani''' send Doc to Martin for for meeting notes
+
* McQ: Discussions about a new Eclipse.org Web-based Toplevel Project
** Always updating the micro by one only ... so if bundle was not updated in Helios SR1 or SR2, it should go .1 in 3.6.2+
+
  
'''February 23, 2011:'''
 
* Martin - '''3.6.2+ M-Builds post 3.6.2''' - needed for adopters to get 3.6.2+ bundles signed; on demand only? If scheduled, how often?
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 16, 2011:'''
+
'''May 14, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
 +
* Alex: SWT GTK3 and the Endgame Rules
 +
* Dani: Luna Plan Update
 +
* John: New Dashboard created by the EMO
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 9, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
'''May 7, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, John, Martin
* Dani - '''Builder bug''': Theoretically, the builder bug can cause bad binaries shipped from Eclipse.org
+
* Martin {{bug|241957}} - GTK clipboard hang
** But switching the builder now could have other consequences. Most people likely use the 3.6.0 or 3.6.1 builder
+
** Alex: GTK guys recommended using the async API, but no time for more investigation
** Platform uses the 3.6.1 builder. Bug appeared in 3.6.0
+
** McQ: Switching a sync API to async implementation underneath can be extremely messy (need to be aware of all possible events and event sources...)
** McQ thinks we should recommend using the new builder - John: can never know whether a problematic code construct is there or not
+
** McQ: If there is an idea canceling the clipboard wait ... given that the issue occurs only rarely, even a hacky solution is better than nothing
** Provide a patched version of the 3.6.1 basebuilder as an option for people to use - '''AI John''' ask Kim to re-produce a new basebuilder, then respin RC4
+
* Dani: will do a plan update, hopefully this week
* McQ - '''Builds at Eclipse.org'''
+
 
** IBM Ottawa consolidating 7 offices into 2, plan to not have a build lab
+
<hr/>
** Kim still frustrated with Foundation facilities; McQ talked to people both inside IBM and the Foundation
+
'''April 30, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
 +
* McQ: '''WB4 perspective customization''' - has it caused any issues ?
 +
** Martin: Dealing with detached views works differently (dragging a window fails - must drag the tab inside the window)
 +
** Dani: Saved perspectives / windows are lost on an existing workspace when moving from 3.x to 4.x
 +
*** Martin/McQ: When crossing the major version boundary, it is OK to lose state - it's not nice but acceptable
 +
** Dani: The bigger problem is, that the whole "Perspective customization" dialog is still not working as expected
 +
*** Martin: Agree with the concern, but the Perspective customization dialog wasn't ever great
 +
*** McQ: If invest work here, rather make it good than bring back the previous status quo
 +
*** Martin: Most customization done via plugin.xml / Java , don't expect end users to do a lot of customization themselves
 +
* Dani: '''M7 status'''
 +
** Defect triage under control - some items deferred to 4.5
  
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 2, 2011:''' - Canceled (no topics)
+
'''April 23, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin
 +
* Alex - GTK2 or GTK3 as default - GTK3 it is
 +
** GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to
 +
*** xulrunner - latest version not supported by swt and latest distros don't even ship standalone xulrunner
 +
*** webkitgtk - gtk2 version in maintenance mode, upstream consider dropping, really crashy See [https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-gtk/2014-March/001821.html]
 +
** GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
 +
** McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
 +
* Dani - '''Freeze Plan created'''
 +
* John - '''Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret'''
 +
*
 +
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''April 16, 2014''' - Dani, Alex
 +
* no topics today
  
'''January 26, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Martin,  
+
<hr/>
* Dani: {{bug|330534}} '''ObjectTeams Contribution''' - JDT might allow using their namespace as an exception, couple p2 bugs pending
+
'''April 9, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
** If the p2 solution cannot be done, OT/J will need to remain off the train
+
* Dani - '''Kepler SR2 and Java 8'''
* Martin: Concerned about '''Eclipse 3.x quality''', many regressions and not being addressed
+
** Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
** {{bug|320329}} ThreadJob#waitForRun can spin when blockingJob is not RUNNING
+
** Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
*** '''Platform Runtime: Regression''' introduced in 3.6, can have severe Performance impact, reported 10-Jul, commenters unsure about approach to fix
+
** Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
*** A buggy contribution was accepted, and then the contributor left
+
** Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
*** John spent a lot of time.. there was a fix that didn't work
+
 
*** Dani: Could the contribution be pulled out? - No because it's new API (yield())
+
* John - '''Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions'''
*** Contributor was quite good originally but then just switched teams and was no longer available
+
** Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
*** The new testcase from Markus Schorn might help narrowing down the case quickly
+
** Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
** {{bug|335153}} Regression: p2 downloads are much slower due to picking remote artifacts even when a local file: URL is available
+
** Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
*** '''p2: Regression''' introduced in 3.6, reported 24-Jan, testcase + patch attached, response pending
+
** Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches
** {{bug|332840}} Wrong error about API change (Regression; works with 3.7M3)  
+
*** '''API Tooling: Regression''' introduced in 3.7M4, reported 17-Dec, Olivier:  "I'll take a look" but no response since
+
** {{bug|332838}} Bogus potential null pointer access warning (regression; works with 3.6)
+
*** '''JDT: Regression''' introduced in 3.7M4, reported 17-Dec, Ayushman: "I'll investigate" but no response since
+
** {{bug|332507}} [regression] incomplete build path reported on o.e.rse.subsystem.shells.local
+
*** '''PDE UI: Regression''' introduced in 3.7M4, reported 14-Dec, initial traffic but no followup since 16-Dec
+
** {{bug|335466}} Regression: category.xml processing fails when "name" contains special chars
+
*** Just detected recently
+
** {{bug|313899}} [Progress] Every user-job causes a busy cursor to be shown for a minimum of 250ms
+
*** '''Platform UI''': Patch provided on 21-May, no response whatsoever from Platform UI
+
** John: There had been a fair bit of turnover, new committers getting up to speed ... having less experienced people is a fact
+
*** Identifying key bugs in the big bug database takes a lot of experience
+
** Dani: M5 is the Major feature freeze, so new feature / API work has highest priority ... so quality drop is somewhat expected in M5
+
** Even for regressions... if the regression is less critical than new bugs, it goes behind
+
** '''RESOLUTION:''' Make the important bugs visible to the component leads or PMC. It's natural that we sometimes need to ping on a bug. M5 is a problematic time.
+
* John: {{bug|335374}} '''Redhat 6 as a Reference Platform'''
+
** SWT team doing some final testing, then will put only RH6 on the Ref Platform list
+
* John: '''OpenJDK as a Reference Platform''' - Oracle is interested and might contribute testing
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
''' January 19, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Jeff, Dani, Martin
+
 
* Jeff will be unavailable for meeting next 6-7 weeks
+
'''April 2, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
* John: How do we interpret "under the direction of the PMC" in [http://www.eclipse.org/legal/EclipseLegalProcessPoster.pdf Eclipse legal process]?
+
* Dani - new GTK3+ issues
** McQ: Not about approval, but about PMC being aware
+
** crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX ({{bug|431330}})
** Jeff: Goal is to indicate "Working with an Eclipse mindset", ie in close collaboration with a committer ... contributor must be aware of IP due diligence guidelines from the beginning of evolution of the code. We want to avoid introducing IP leaks by accepting legacy code that was written before assuming an Eclipse mindset.
+
** problems with main menu ({{bug|419830}})
** McQ: This is about understanding the direction of Eclipse as a whole. Request a PMC +1 on the bug as work is being started. PMC should work with committer to ensure that contributor has been instructed about IP rules.
+
* Dani - '''Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work'''
 +
** Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
 +
* Dani - need to '''approve API changes for Java 8 in M7'''
 +
** No API changes, only additions
 +
** Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
 +
** ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
 +
** There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
 +
* John - '''SWT over JavaFX'''
 +
** EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
 +
** Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
 +
** Relationship to Tom Schindl's [http://www.eclipse.org/efxclipse/index.html e(fx)clipse project] ?
 +
*** e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
 +
*** Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
 +
*** Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in {{bug|426243}}
 +
*** Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
 +
**** It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
 +
**** John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
 +
*** Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
''' January 12, 2011:''' -  
+
'''March 26, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
 +
* John - '''EclipseCon Update'''
 +
** Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
 +
** IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
 +
** Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
 +
** Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
 +
** See also Blog Posts from [http://cdtdoug.ca/ Doug Schaefer] and [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/author/irbull/ Ian Bull] as well as [https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2014/news/top-5-ian-bull top 5 from Ian]
 +
* John - '''ARM port of GTK''' - any tracking items ?
 +
** Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
 +
** IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
 +
** Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
 +
** Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
 +
*** Example: {{bug|430698}}, {{bug|429237}}, {{bug|415757}}; {{bug|419855}} talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
 +
*** Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
 +
*** Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
 +
**** Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
 +
**** Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
 +
* Alex - '''Java 8 vs Java 7''' currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
 +
** In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
 +
** ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is {{bug|390889}} and we'll try to fix it for M7.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
''' January 5, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Jeff, Martin
+
'''March 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
* Dani: Component Lead progress? - Portal still doesn't have the correct list of components
+
* McQ - '''Congrats on Java 8 Release''' to coincide with the Oracle release
 +
* Dani - '''Windows 8 Support''' - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
 +
** McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
 +
** Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
 +
** Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''March 12, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 +
* GTK - SWT team discussions
 +
* John - '''preparing for Java 8 release'''
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''March 5, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit''' - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
 +
* Dani: '''Windows 8 Support'''
 +
** Not listed in official plan
 +
** No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
 +
** Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
 +
** Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
 +
** AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
 +
*** Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
 +
* Dani: '''State of GTK 3+'''
 +
** Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
 +
** Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
 +
** Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
 +
** Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
 +
** On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
 +
** Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
 +
* Alex: '''GTK 3 in Mars'''
 +
** Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
 +
** RHEL 5 would no longer work
 +
** Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''February 26, 2014''' - Alex, John, Martin, McQ
 +
* John: '''Orion Release''' this week
 +
 
 +
* Alex: '''Eclipse on ARM64'''
 +
** Launcher and swt at first
 +
** Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
 +
** John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
 +
*** Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
 +
*** At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
 +
** Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
 +
 
 +
* Dani: Update on '''GTK 3+ issue''' - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
 +
** Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
 +
** McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
 +
*** If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
 +
*** Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
 +
*** Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it
 +
 
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''February 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
 +
* Dani: '''Silenio to work on GTK issue?'''
 +
* John: '''GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation'''
 +
* John: '''e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools'''
 +
** Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
 +
** Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
 +
** Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
 +
** John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
 +
** Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
 +
*** If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
 +
** Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''February 5, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''Confcall Numbers:''' Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
 +
* Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
 +
* Alex: Testing on modern Linux
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''January 22, 2014''' - John, Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* John, Alex: '''New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora'''
 +
** Alex been looking at Browser
 +
** Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
 +
** Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
 +
*** Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
 +
*** Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
 +
* Dani: '''M5 Status'''
 +
** Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''January 15, 2014''' - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin
 +
* Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
 +
* Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion
 +
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''January 8, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ
 +
* Dani: '''API Freeze''' with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Revision as of 05:41, 13 July 2015

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every wednesday at 10.30am EST.

Meeting Minutes

July 15, 22 and 29, 2015 -- no meeting


July 8, 2015 - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Alex

  • John: Cross-Language Tooling Discussion on the eclipse.org-architecture-council and ide-dev mailing lists
  • decided to cancel the upcoming July meetings

July 1, 2015 -- no meeting


June 24, 2015 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Java 9 - <a href="http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/eclipse-java%E2%84%A2-9-support-beta-mars">EAR Feature Patch</a> on the Marketplace NOW
    • No JARs any more - JRE is doing things internally using "jimage" format; updated search etc to create projects and work against them
    • If the Jimage filesystem provider isn't backported, one has to run the IDE on Java9 in order to code Java9
    • Modules are just a list of packages (and can refer to other modules) - no real JSR describing the plan yet - seems like just a replacement of "Profiles" (and JARs)

June 17, 2015 - Dani, John, Martin, Alex


June 10, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: 4.5RC4 looking good, no more fixes planned
  • Dani: Working on Java 9 feature patch
  • Alex: PC discussing a change in the release train
    • Current common ground seems to be a request for more release points, and projects could decide whether they do features or maintenance
    • From Platform point of view, stability is key. Some key contributors not interested doing
    • Martin: How to also cater to contributors who want their contributions released soon ?
      • Martin Idea: With Tycho, building the Platform is easier so ask contributors build themselves
      • Or, open up a new "experimental" stream ?
      • Dani Idea: Market milestone builds differently, as "fully consumable" would serve the same purpose
  • Martin: Tested eclipse-installer (Oomph), looking really really good now

June 3, 2015 - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ, John

  • Dani: Mars Endgame
  • Dani: Please vote for release review

May 20, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Dani: Security Update - Platform work done, Orbit updated, reached out to Wayne and other affected projects.
  • Dani: RC2 Build - too many bugs assigned, Lars on Vacation, Dani will fill in
  • McQ: Too Many Platforms Built? - Who's really hurt by "too many builds" ?
    • Will meet with Mike & Foundation tomorrow, Alex is also interested (Dani to check).

May 13, 2015 - McQ, John, Alex, Martin

  • John, Dani - Mars Endgame looking good
  • Alex - bug 465874 Lucene 5 looking good, almost done - Ready to commit as soon as CQs are in and Mars+1 is open
  • JDT for Java 9 - will need a wider discussion with EMO on make it easier to publish the work, e.g. in normal builds

May 6, 2015 - McQ, Dani, Martin, John

  • Dani: Java 9 timing - slight delay
  • Dani: RC1 preps
    • 2-day test pass went fine - 2 severe issues found, will be addressed
    • Request to watch PMC mailing list for API exceptions and defect approvals
  • John: PC Discussion on Release Cycles
    • Multiple releases per year PLUS maintenance streams seems like overkill
    • Consider an approach like Orion that just moves constantly forward
    • Especially for the Platform, being rock solid is most important. Still to attract new contributors we need to allow more frequent "feature updates".
      • A model where both "stable/maintenance" _and_ "features" are contributed to the train might be too much work/overhead.
      • Consider a model like Ubuntu, ... with some release numbers being "stable/LTS base" and others being "in-between feature releases" ?
      • Consider a model like LTS for maintenance fixes / aside mainstream just moving forward ?


April 15, 2015 - Dani, John, McQ, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Java 1.7 Changes
    • Some bundles have been moved to a 1.7 BREE by new committers, even after API freeze
    • Rule has always been "we move up when there's a reason to move up". We won't move up without reason.
      • Dani: Moving the BREE may even cause API changes, so should only be done when incrementing the minor version (5% risk)
      • Alex: Such updates allow staying current and not get to "rewrite is needed" state (thus needed) but has to happen before M6 (API freeze)
    • Alex suggest not accepting additional changes, but not reverting either (to avoid churn)
  • Dani: Batik 1.6 update

April 8, 2015 - Dani, Martin, Alex, John, McQ

  • Dani: Batik - Platform is good, Train may need to update, perhaps updating one bundle only would suffice. John will follow up.
  • Alex: SWT for GTK 3 News
    • GTK port finally decoupled from X11 - it renders on Wayland now, can switch the renderer to a pure HTML one
    • This opens up opportunities (but depends on hosts that have GTK).



April 1, 2015 - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani (Regrets: John travelling)

  • Alex: GTK 3.16 seeing issues again - fixed some crashes, but scrolling is still entirely broken
    • SWT uses a number of things that GTK declares as "implementation detail"
  • PMC approval on piggyback CQ's (AC question forwarded by John)

March 18, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • John: EclipseCon - Bigger this year due to LocationTech (750 attendees)
    • Mark Reinhold keynote and "after-session" on Java 9
    • Much interest in Orion JS tooling / editor, also on desktop
    • Public face of Eclipse Platform at the conference was much more diverse than in the past (Lars Vogel, Max Anderson, Google ...)
  • Dani: bug 458730 Mars Plan Update
  • Dani: e4 project leadership approved by EMO
  • Dani: Szymon Brandys resigned as Platform/Resources co-lead. Need to +1 on the mailing list

March 11, 2015 - no meeting (EclipseCon)


March 4, 2015 - Dani, McQ, Martin, John

  • Dani: e4 leadership - Dani will volunteer to co-lead
  • Dani: BREEs - documentation about how to pick the EE
    • Recommending the "earliest generally supported JRE that provides the capabilities you need"
    • Would like an URL on the page pointing to the most recent plan (talking to Wayne)
  • John: greatfix contest
    • Dani: Working well - some very small contributions but some also very large (eg Customize Perspective fixes)
  • John: EclipseCon - numbers looking good; join Planning Council Breakfast as delegate for Dani

February 25, 2015 - Dani, Martin McQ

  • No topics

February 18, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Alex: Building Native Launchers
    • Current way of building is kinda unpredictable - even if getting some agreement on versions to use, results are kinda unpredictable
    • Pushing towards Hudson RHEL builders at least at the EF to get more transparency and automation - attempt to mimic the infrastructure at IBM
    • Looking at 3 primary architectures (at the EF) for Linux vs. secondary architectures (non-public builders potentially)
  • Dani: Great initiative, but other (non-EF) builders must not be broken
    • EF doesn't allow any commercial tools (but currently, e.g. Windows launchers are built with MSVS)
  • Alex is willing to spend time to get Linux builds running; but can't help with other architectures
    • Martin: great approach - for Windows, using a cross-compiler on Linux might be interesting (after Linux native works)
  • Alex: This is just phase one - getting rid of the binaries in git repos might be phase 2 (since the checked-in binaries easily cause inconsistencies between Java and Native side)
    • Martin: Checked-in binaries help consumers and contributors who just want to make a Java change
    • Dani: Checked-in binaries are also used for comparing build results for expected vs accidental changes
  • Alex: bug 459399 - Policy for recommended minimum execution environments for bundles
    • Dani: It works today
      • To run Eclipse, Java 8 or Java 9 can be used (minimum BREE has no impact)
      • To modify the source, a new JRE can be used but then the Execution Environment Descriptions need to be installed
    • Policy as discussed in the past: Each project can increase the BREE if there is a real need (such as generifying) and no upstream clients are broken
      • But don't change the BREE without justification -- changing the BREE always has some effect, such as new warnings that would need to be addressed
      • Suggested BREE for new bundles has already been changed by Lars
  • Alex: Even for bundles in "maintenance mode", old BREE causes issues for people who build from source (who have to change compilers etc)
  • No conclusion so far (Alex and Dani disagree)
  • Dani: e4 leadership
    • Mature bits being moved to Eclipse - e4 remaining as an incubator to keep alive for experiments with low entry barrier

February 11, 2015 - Dani, Alex

  • no topics

February 4, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin


January 28, 2015 - Dani, Alex, John

  • Dani: Switch Mac OS X 10.9 with 10.10 in Mars target environments
    • No objections
  • Alex: Looking for any Eclipse related activity @Fosdem

January 21, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Alex: Process for allowing non-committers extended bugzilla privileges (for bug triage)?
    • Dani: Yes a process exists. Send bugzilla username to Dani.
  • Alex: New resource for helping with SWT
  • Dani: Platform/UI co-lead
  • Dani: Solaris: Java 8 will only support 64 bits on both Intel and SPARC --> IBM SWT Team considering to invest in getting patches in for 64-bit Solaris

January 14, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • Dani: Update on Platform/UI Leadership: Daniel Rolka left IBM and for now has no time to contribute. He stepped down as co-lead and nominated Lars Vogel
  • Dani: Solaris x86 64-bit support - patches exist, but no machine available. No luck to get one from Oracle or via Eclipse Foundation. We will not support Solaris x86 64-bit unless someone makes a machine available

January 7, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • Dani: Platform/UI Leadership
  • John: Git security issue - pick up a patch for Jgit in the packages before SR2? - Mostly an EPP

December 17, 2014 - McQ, John, Dani

  • Platform UI leadership to be discussed in the next PMC call
  • no call on December 24 and December 31

December 10, 2014 - Alex, McQ, John, Dani, Martin

  • Dani: bug 427768 Mickael (Red Hat) - Nested Project support contribution to Common Navigator to better support Maven projects
  • Dani: Red Hat also will wants to contribute making the Import easier bug 421930. First in the e4 incubator.
    • Just import from a folder, and contribute project configurators via extension point (e.g. detect POM files, Makefiles, ...)
    • McQ: Many complexities ... different users may want very different things to happen
      • McQ: Just point to a Git repo -- the Git repo has a little metadata file at the root which allows launching the apps that the repo had been intended for ... maybe just make the project tree(s) a little more self-describing
      • Is there a growing list of repos which already have that? - John: In the Java world, pom.xml is getting that ...
      • Alex: .doap getting this (at least for Apache and GNOME projects - specifies at least the languages used)
  • Web IDEs : McQ and others gone through a lot of analysis of Web IDE's
    • Cloud9 has a much larger set of starting points ; in terms of the underlying core structure, Orion (and also Jay) are more interesting
    • Orion has an extremely lightweight plug-in model: pieces coming from all over the world may look like all running on the server - nice infrastructure for building Community around it
    • Orion + Flux could be a rival for anything out there
    • Orion continues to push on the Core Coding experience - Orion Editor is on par or better than most desktop editors
  • Vision: See Minutes on the platform-vision mailing list ... Delivery will depend on people actually participating

December 3, 2014 - Alex, Martin, Dani, John (McQ travelling)

  • John: Platform Vision - How to turn that into actionable items, Wayne wants to present to the Board
  • John: Performance tests running again since a couple weeks, now the graphs are also back again :)

November 26, 2014 - Alex, Dani

  • No relevant topics / decisions

November 19, 2014 - Alex, Martin, Dani (McQ and John had issues dialing in)

  • Dani: Jetty 9 - Upgrade has been done, but new versions coming out ... will probably update from Jetty 9.2.3 to Jetty 9.2.5. Probably 9.3
    • WTP interested in newer Jetty version ... need to agree on a common version across the Release Train.
    • Alex: New Jetty JSP compiler failing ... filed a bug, will want this fixed (Jetty working on it)
  • Dani: bug 179924 Request for ssh-agent - patch against Team from YMNK (JSch Committer)
    • egit would contribute the agent, but would make more sense putting it in Platform (+1 from Martin, no objection from Alex)
  • Equinox Declarative Services implementation - ProSyst stopped providing fixes, not responsive any more
    • New specificiation (R6) from OSGi adding lot of features, cannot risk staying behind
    • Suggestion to remove the ProSyst stuff and replace it with the Apache Felix implementation (used by IBM / WebSphere and others)
    • Martin: How mature / stable is the Felix code ? Can we influence it ?
      • Dani: Very mature. Have more influence on Felix than on the Prosyst stuff ... through the IBM committers and others.
      • Alex agrees. Using some parts of Felix already.
  • John (via Dani): Move e4 into Platform/UI - would like to start the review process next week.

November 5, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Eclipse Foundation greatbugs initiative - call into PMC
  • Dani: EclipseCon Europe Report - met lot of people, best attended EclipseCon Europe ever :)
    • IOT; IDE in the Web; are people moving away from Eclipse before the transition to Web can be completed ?
  • Alex: Discussion with Christian Campo on scaling up
    • Should better go into SWT ... but SWT has a reputation that it's hard getting a change in -- people prefer re-doing things their own than contributing :(
    • Alex thinks this problem doesn't exist any more ... but how to fight this misconception ?
    • John: Getting a change in may now be hard due to other reasons, eg lack of experienced committers
    • Alex: Consider voting in new committers more easily if somebody is interested ?
  • Alex: Difference between Eclipse and the Linux Foundation
    • Linux Foundation doesn't provide anything that anybody can use directly (just a source tarball) --> all users become "contributors" of some sort
    • This leads to different expectations and has a number advantages (eg issues are reported to and worked on by member companies only)

October 22, 2014 - Alex, Dani, McQ, John

  • Platform plan update nearly done, will be released soon
  • Orion release review is ongoing, release will be next week
  • Brief discussion of new bug reporting tool and related bug dashboard
  • PMC called canceled next week due to EclipseCon Europe

October 1, 2014 - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ

  • Dani - In touch with Oracle regarding Solaris x86
  • McQ - Platform UI tension between making Platform UI as stable as possible, versus new features
    • Community forming for new contributions - that's great! - But takes committer's time; committers reduced to "productize and fix" is problematic
    • how to get more contributions for bug fixes ?
      • Alex: What about saying "This release we only accept bug fixes" ? Or for some milestone, eg after M4 only accept bug fixes ?
      • Dani: Sounds great, but will the Community accept that ? - JDT BugBash did not work that well...
      • Dani to prepare a draft message
  • Dani was in Bangalore - talked to Arun - good collaboration with Alex
    • Hard to get new SWT developers (Sami moving away on RH side)
    • Ideas to keep SWT relevant ... eg generate Browser based things
      • GTK3 supports running in a browser now... (just one label for now, but an interesting approach)

September 24, 2014 - Alex, Dani, McQ, John, Martin

  • John: SWT Binaries Repository has got too big
    • Will prune old versions out of the git repository (which is only used internally) - "Release" drops will still be available from release builds.
    • DECISION: OK to prune.
  • SWT master still has sources for old Platforms like carbon and motif - cluttering up the source code
    • DECISION: OK to remove references - source would remain in git for old branches, but not be visible in master any more.
  • Dani: p2 and Equinox - no sign-off for M2, leaders stepping down ?
    • consider moving p2 back into Equinox, and probably Equinox back into the Eclipse project ?
    • John: Equinox committers not really knowledgeable about p2 ... still, with less than 3 active committers a threshold is reached (can't hold elections any more)
    • Still there's a couple of people contributing, so there are knowledgeable folk around
    • Dani: If there's committers committing code, they should also be responsible for sign-off
  • Dani: Java 7 and Jetty 9
    • Been using Jetty 8 for a while, now, there is Community Pressure upgrading to Jetty 9 but that requires Java 7
    • Java 6 no longer getting public updates since February 2013
    • John:Adoptions needed in the Help System when moving to Jetty 9 ?
      • Alex don't think so - been shipping Jetty 9 for over a year already; only required changing some dependencies.
      • ACTION ITEM: Alex offered to check this
  • Alex: Drop all the Java 6 Platforms from the list of Reference Platforms?
    • DECISION: Yes this needs to be done. Trying to support Java 6 won't buy any benefit at this point.

September 17, 2014 - no meeting


September 10, 2014 - John, Martin, Alex, Dani

  • John: Mars having some build hickups due to removing Mac 32-bit builds
  • John: Luna SR1 - almost done, respinning for 2 bugs in Equinox
  • John: Cloud TLP (for Orion and others) - still on track for announcing end October
  • Alex: Been busy with other stuff recently, back on the GTK version support discussion this week
    • Martin: Many people will know what distro they have (or need), but not what GTK they have on there
      • John: Also running GTK on AIX, Solaris, Linux Power and other which are not moving up that fast...
      • Martin: Examples: RHEL 5.8 was GTK 2.10.4-21 ; RHEL 4.5 was at GTK 2.4.13-22
      • Popular distros would be Ubuntu LTS, RHEL, OpenSUSE
    • Alex: Newer distros have up to 3 GTK versions installed, along with some means to switch between them, it's very confusing
    • Eclipse is the only project that dynamically loads DLL's and tries to support a broad range ... others typically compile against a specific version
      • Most projects require GTK 2.24
    • John: GTK versions are not really predictable ... between 3.04 and 3.10 there was a breaking change
    • Alex: In every release there are small issues that we work around; and there's certain releases that are breaking stuff
    • NEXT ACTION: Send E-Mail

September 3, 2014 - John, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: away next week and on/off the next two weeks due to travel
  • Dani: RC4 next week. PMC please watch the PMC mailing list
    • John: will be available and monitor the mailing list
  • Dani: Oracle interested in providing access to a Solaris 64-bit machine bug 442266
  • John: How/where to graduate the e4 tools
    • the community wants to graduate this out of incubation
    • initially proposed to create a separate project, but feels like adding too much overhead
    • John: proposed PDE as home, then Dani suggested to use Platform UI
    • Alex, Dani and John agree to suggest Platform UI as home for the e4 tools.
    • John to send a note to Lars
  • Alex: Limit supported number of GTK+ versions
    • SWT currently has to support over 20 different version. This doesn't scale.
    • Proposal: Bump min supported version with one minor release each release. Aka Luna has Gtk 2.10 as min, Mars would have 2.12 as min. Can consider even two minor releases (Mars requires 2.14) as this would keep the amount of supported versions the same as GTK releases one minor release every 6 months.
    • Dani, John: this is too limiting. We tended to support the most possible. Newest versions might have too many bugs.
    • All agree: we'd like to limit the amount of supported versions
    • Alex to cast a poll via Eclipse Foundation, which versions are used by users and companies

August 27, 2014 - cancelled


August 20, 2014 - John, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: new platform PowerPC 64-bit LE bug 441358
    • maintained by IBM
    • will be added to 4.4.1 as early access
    • Dani to send a note to cross-platform
  • Dani: individual made patches to support Solaris 64-bit bug 442266
    • we'd like to add it but don't have a machine to support it
    • important because our current 32-bit Solaris build will become obselete since there's no 32-bit JRE for Java 7 and beyond
    • Oracle should be interested since they provide both, Java and Solaris
    • Dani to ask Oracle

August 13, 2014 - McQ, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Any feedback for the Mars plan?
    • McQ:
      • It does not cover Orion, but that is OK and like in previous release plans. Orion will most likely be moved to another top-level project soon.
      • We want to remove Mac OS X Universal 32-bit (all agreed)
  • Dani: How to deal with requests to push our bundles to repo.eclipse.org bug 441530
    • Dani: OK for me but we won't do the work
    • Alex: Maven needs the dependencies in the pom.xml. We don't want copy them from the manifest into the pom.xml and then maintain this. The pom should be updated when publishing the file into the Maven repo. Ideally by an automated task.
    • Conclusion: all agree with this, i.e. we won't do the actual work and we won't "pollute" our pom files.

August 6, 2014 - McQ, Dani

  • Dani: Will provide initial Mars plan next week



No meetings in July



Jun 4, 2014 - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: RC4 Status looking good
    • 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
    • Rest of the team working on docs
    • Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
  • John: Went over the N&N ... number of things went in after M7 :)
    • Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way



Jun 11, 2014 - Martin, McQ, Alex, John

  • John: Eclipse Theming: When switching the OS Theme to dark, Eclipse should be aware
    • Dark Theme is currently a tech preview



Jun 4, 2014 - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: RC4 Status looking good
    • 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
    • Rest of the team working on docs
    • Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
  • John: Went over the N&N ... number of things went in after M7 :)
    • Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way



May 28, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: EOL'ing the Delta Pack - announce now, remove during Mars - it's been obsoleted by p2 functionality
    • Alex: Some of the test suite relied on the delta pack, it caused issues, OK with removing (PDE tests would need to be cleaned up)
  • Dani: Copyright Updates - tool is very slow since not ported from CVS properly, can run for hours
    • John: Worth doing periodically but probably won't matter legally since copyright lasts for 7 years
    • The change is not without risk (Dani: Could schedule after the release)
    • McQ: Should consider updating the tool as part of that work
    • Alex: Has a new intern, could use this as an opportunity to join
  • Dani: RC3 status - last planned build - looking good, except for Platform UI, where the list of bugs is still long
  • McQ: Discussions about a new Eclipse.org Web-based Toplevel Project



May 14, 2014 - Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Alex: SWT GTK3 and the Endgame Rules
  • Dani: Luna Plan Update
  • John: New Dashboard created by the EMO

May 7, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Martin bug 241957 - GTK clipboard hang
    • Alex: GTK guys recommended using the async API, but no time for more investigation
    • McQ: Switching a sync API to async implementation underneath can be extremely messy (need to be aware of all possible events and event sources...)
    • McQ: If there is an idea canceling the clipboard wait ... given that the issue occurs only rarely, even a hacky solution is better than nothing
  • Dani: will do a plan update, hopefully this week

April 30, 2014 - Dani, Martin, McQ

  • McQ: WB4 perspective customization - has it caused any issues ?
    • Martin: Dealing with detached views works differently (dragging a window fails - must drag the tab inside the window)
    • Dani: Saved perspectives / windows are lost on an existing workspace when moving from 3.x to 4.x
      • Martin/McQ: When crossing the major version boundary, it is OK to lose state - it's not nice but acceptable
    • Dani: The bigger problem is, that the whole "Perspective customization" dialog is still not working as expected
      • Martin: Agree with the concern, but the Perspective customization dialog wasn't ever great
      • McQ: If invest work here, rather make it good than bring back the previous status quo
      • Martin: Most customization done via plugin.xml / Java , don't expect end users to do a lot of customization themselves
  • Dani: M7 status
    • Defect triage under control - some items deferred to 4.5



April 23, 2014 - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin

  • Alex - GTK2 or GTK3 as default - GTK3 it is
    • GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to
      • xulrunner - latest version not supported by swt and latest distros don't even ship standalone xulrunner
      • webkitgtk - gtk2 version in maintenance mode, upstream consider dropping, really crashy See [1]
    • GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
    • McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
  • Dani - Freeze Plan created
  • John - Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret

April 16, 2014 - Dani, Alex

  • no topics today

April 9, 2014 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani - Kepler SR2 and Java 8
    • Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
    • Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
    • Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
    • Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
  • John - Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions
    • Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
    • Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
    • Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
    • Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches

April 2, 2014 - Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Dani - new GTK3+ issues
    • crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX (bug 431330)
    • problems with main menu (bug 419830)
  • Dani - Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work
    • Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
  • Dani - need to approve API changes for Java 8 in M7
    • No API changes, only additions
    • Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
    • ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
    • There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
  • John - SWT over JavaFX
    • EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
    • Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
    • Relationship to Tom Schindl's e(fx)clipse project ?
      • e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
      • Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
      • Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in bug 426243
      • Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
        • It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
        • John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
      • Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX



March 26, 2014 - John, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • John - EclipseCon Update
    • Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
    • IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
    • Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
    • Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
    • See also Blog Posts from Doug Schaefer and Ian Bull as well as top 5 from Ian
  • John - ARM port of GTK - any tracking items ?
    • Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
    • IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
    • Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
    • Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
      • Example: bug 430698, bug 429237, bug 415757; bug 419855 talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
      • Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
      • Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
        • Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
        • Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
  • Alex - Java 8 vs Java 7 currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
    • In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
    • ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is bug 390889 and we'll try to fix it for M7.

March 19, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • McQ - Congrats on Java 8 Release to coincide with the Oracle release
  • Dani - Windows 8 Support - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
    • McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
    • Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
    • Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation

March 12, 2014 - Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • GTK - SWT team discussions
  • John - preparing for Java 8 release

March 5, 2014 - John, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
  • Dani: Windows 8 Support
    • Not listed in official plan
    • No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
    • Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
    • Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
    • AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
      • Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
  • Dani: State of GTK 3+
    • Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
    • Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
    • Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
    • Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
    • On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
    • Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
  • Alex: GTK 3 in Mars
    • Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
    • RHEL 5 would no longer work
    • Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI

February 26, 2014 - Alex, John, Martin, McQ

  • John: Orion Release this week
  • Alex: Eclipse on ARM64
    • Launcher and swt at first
    • Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
    • John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
      • Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
      • At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
    • Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
  • Dani: Update on GTK 3+ issue - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
    • Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
    • McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
      • If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
      • Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
      • Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it



February 19, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin, John

  • Dani: Silenio to work on GTK issue?
  • John: GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation
  • John: e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools
    • Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
    • Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
    • Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
    • John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
    • Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
      • If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
    • Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE

February 5, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Confcall Numbers: Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
  • Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
  • Alex: Testing on modern Linux

January 22, 2014 - John, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • John, Alex: New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora
    • Alex been looking at Browser
    • Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
    • Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
      • Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
      • Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
  • Dani: M5 Status
    • Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier

January 15, 2014 - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin

  • Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
  • Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion

January 8, 2014 - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ

  • Dani: API Freeze with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception

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