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= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
−
'''Dec 1, 2010:''' - John, Jeff, Dani, Martin, McQ
+
 
−
* McQ - '''Jeff Commit Rights on PDE'''
+
'''May 20, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
−
* Dani - '''No EMO approval needed for component leads'''
+
* Dani: '''Security Update''' - Platform work done, Orbit updated, reached out to Wayne and other affected projects.
−
** Jeff: EMO doesn't know about components... if it's a project it needs a lead. Better do inform EMO about changes.
+
* Dani: '''RC2 Build''' - too many bugs assigned, Lars on Vacation, Dani will fill in
−
** Portal not yet updated to reflect group id changes.
+
* McQ: '''Too Many Platforms Built?''' - Who's really hurt by "too many builds" ?
 +
** Will meet with Mike & Foundation tomorrow, Alex is also interested (Dani to check).
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Nov 24, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, John, Martin, Jeff
+
'''May 13, 2015''' - McQ, John, Alex, Martin
−
* Dani - '''New PDE Leadership''' - nominated on PDE list, should formally accept nomination
+
* John, Dani - Mars Endgame looking good
−
* Dani - '''Martin not listed as PMC member in Portal''' - AI Martin send message to EMO
+
* Alex - {{bug|465874}} Lucene 5 looking good, almost done - Ready to commit as soon as CQs are in and Mars+1 is open
−
* John - {{bug|330534}} '''JDT vs OT/J discussion''' - Agreement that the proposed solution makes sense for now
+
* JDT for Java 9 - will need a wider discussion with EMO on make it easier to publish the work, e.g. in normal builds
−
* Martin - {{bug|330310}} '''Feature Removal''' (Help Capability Filter)
+
−
** We don't have an official policy regarding feature removal
+
−
** John: Features are much more subjective than API
+
−
** Martin thinks that even though subjective - when something is deliberately removed the Community should be informed
+
−
** McQ: Talking is good - but in the end those who do the work should not be hindered too much on innovation
+
−
** John - a minimal step when removing something should include filing a bug as a place for discussion
+
−
** Common Sense might be good enough (no need for an official policy)
+
−
* John - {{bug|324772}} Group membership updates - Recommend moving Ufacekit to e4, portal being updated
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Nov 17, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, John, Martin
+
'''May 6, 2015''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
−
* Dani: '''Java 7''' - how to enable new features without breaking adopters
+
* Dani: '''Java 9 timing''' - slight delay
−
* Martin: '''PMC membership''' - Martin to contact EMO, McQ to contact Steve N
+
* Dani: RC1 preps
−
* McQ: {{bug|330312}} '''Object Teams JDT Fork'''
+
** 2-day test pass went fine - 2 severe issues found, will be addressed
−
** Aspects can also change other's code and this can't be prohibited; but using others' namespace makes the fork indistinguishable from the original
+
** Request to watch PMC mailing list for API exceptions and defect approvals
−
** Even without the end user problem, people create their dependencies with some slack so there is risk getting the wrong version
+
* John: '''PC Discussion on Release Cycles'''
−
** On the Tools PMC, namespace re-use was also discouraged
+
** Multiple releases per year PLUS maintenance streams seems like overkill
−
** Bug is owned by AC, Martin thinks we can close the bug as "no namespace re-use on the release train. ever."
+
** Consider an approach like Orion that just moves constantly forward
−
** But we do want to help adopters get what they need, ie discuss alternative ideas.
+
** Especially for the Platform, being rock solid is most important. Still to attract new contributors we need to allow more frequent "feature updates".
−
* John: {{bug|329191}} '''EMF Dependency in SDK 4.1'''
+
*** A model where both "stable/maintenance" _and_ "features" are contributed to the train might be too much work/overhead.
−
** Turned out that not only 4.1 but also a couple other +1 projects depend on EMF ... Ed Merks suggests making EMF Core a +0 project
+
*** Consider a model like Ubuntu, ... with some release numbers being "stable/LTS base" and others being "in-between feature releases" ?
−
* John: '''Build Quality of Service'''
+
*** Consider a model like LTS for maintenance fixes / aside mainstream just moving forward ?
−
** Foundation horsepower seems to be OK. David W suggests starting to measure build capacity.
+
 
−
** Measures to limit build access/times have been discussed, but no plans to implement any at the moment.
+
 
−
* McQ: '''Target Operating Environments'''
+
'''April 15, 2015''' - Dani, John, McQ, Alex, Martin
−
** All 3.7 on GTK - good; Ubuntu switching to new non-remote X server; GTK3 has been resurrected .. could have an impact if it picks up speed, might destabilize linux
+
* Dani: '''Java 1.7 Changes'''
−
* Martin: '''Pawel approved''' to assume Platform/Debug leadership, official nomination process ongoing on component list
+
** Some bundles have been moved to a 1.7 BREE by new committers, even after API freeze
 +
** Rule has always been "we move up when there's a reason to move up". We won't move up without reason.
 +
*** Dani: Moving the BREE may even cause API changes, so should only be done when incrementing the minor version (5% risk)
 +
*** Alex: Such updates allow staying current and not get to "rewrite is needed" state (thus needed) but has to happen before M6 (API freeze)
 +
** Alex suggest not accepting additional changes, but not reverting either (to avoid churn)
 +
* Dani: '''Batik 1.6 update'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Nov 10, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, McQ, John
+
'''April 8, 2015''' - Dani, Martin, Alex, John, McQ
−
* McQ: '''Platform/Debug Leadership''' - to mention at the Arch call
+
* Dani: '''Batik''' - Platform is good, Train may need to update, perhaps updating one bundle only would suffice. John will follow up.
−
* John: '''UNIX Groups''' - progressing well. Want to match reality.
+
* Alex: '''SWT for GTK 3 News'''
 +
** GTK port finally decoupled from X11 - it renders on Wayland now, can switch the renderer to a pure HTML one
 +
** This opens up opportunities (but depends on hosts that have GTK).
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Nov 3, 2010:''' - Jeff, McQ, Martin, Dani, John
+
'''April 1, 2015''' - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani (Regrets: John travelling)
−
* {{bug|329191}} - Eclipse 4.x, EMF and version ranges
+
* Alex: '''GTK 3.16''' seeing issues again - fixed some crashes, but scrolling is still entirely broken
−
** Have been talking about line-ups with p2 for years: Platform "product" as a line-up of pieces
+
** SWT uses a number of things that GTK declares as "implementation detail"
−
* John: '''Commit Rights''' and group cleanup
+
* PMC approval on piggyback CQ's (AC question forwarded by John)
−
** How to inform affected committers?
+
** Dani sent [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg02332.html our position] to John in order to update the AC
−
** We cannot have commit rights just disappear without making all reasonable efforts contacting them (use Foundation DB to get E-Mail addresses)
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Oct 27, 2010:''' - Jeff, McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
'''March 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
−
* Jeff: '''Security Issue with Jetty in IDE Help''' - returning JSP source code rather than content in some cases (very hard to reproduce)
+
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - Bigger this year due to LocationTech (750 attendees)
−
* '''Build Times and Eclipse QoS for Builds''' - build times vary between 1 and 4 hours
+
** Mark Reinhold keynote and "after-session" on Java 9
−
** Mike M: Does the team have any idea for how to re-implement the build? - Stick with PDE Build + Hudson for now
+
** Much interest in Orion JS tooling / editor, also on desktop
−
** Jeff: Tycho/Maven might be viable if Sonatype showed up to help - Buckminster is more about orchestration than build
+
** Public face of Eclipse Platform at the conference was much more diverse than in the past (Lars Vogel, Max Anderson, Google ...)
−
** Martin: What's the motivation for asking a change? - Long term support strategy...
+
* Dani: {{bug|458730}} '''Mars Plan Update'''
 +
* Dani: '''e4 project leadership''' approved by EMO
 +
* Dani: Szymon Brandys resigned as Platform/Resources co-lead. Need to +1 on the mailing list
  
 +
<hr/>
 +
 +
'''March 11, 2015 - no meeting (EclipseCon)'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Oct 20, 2010:''' - Jeff, McQ, Dani
+
 
−
* Eclipse foundation needs to help us get access to JSRs for Java 7
+
'''March 4, 2015''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, John
 +
* Dani: '''e4 leadership''' - Dani will volunteer to co-lead
 +
* Dani: '''BREEs''' - documentation about how to pick the EE
 +
** Recommending the "earliest generally supported JRE that provides the capabilities you need"
 +
** Would like an URL on the page pointing to the most recent plan (talking to Wayne)
 +
* John: '''greatfix contest'''
 +
** Dani: Working well - some very small contributions but some also very large (eg Customize Perspective fixes)
 +
* John: '''EclipseCon''' - numbers looking good; join Planning Council Breakfast as delegate for Dani
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Oct 13, 2010:''' - John, Jeff, Martin, McQ, Dani
+
'''February 25, 2015''' - Dani, Martin McQ
−
* Martin: '''Hard to get a complete list of all applicable license texts''' - neither IP log helps here, nor mining all the about.html's (hard to find duplicates)
+
* No topics
−
** Jeff: Wayne is writing a tool to validate IP logs - might be related
+
−
** Jeff: Some work in p2 to collect / characterize license data, but only for feature license (umbrella thing). p2 metadata allows having multiple licenses, but that's not currently
+
−
** Conclusion: License info is not in a machine-readable form today. If this turns out being a problem for consumers, we may want to improve the situation.
+
−
* Martin: '''Obsolete 3rd party libs in the IP Log'''
+
−
** When removing IP, add the "obsolete" keyword on ipzilla. How to deal with this while handling multiple Streams ?
+
−
** Hard to associate any IP Log entry with actual license / code. Would be interesting to be able and link any Ipzilla against actual about.html online in viewcvs/viewsvn etc
+
−
** '''AI Martin''' open an IP Discussion for this
+
−
* John: '''Remove "early adopter" from the 4.1 builds'''
+
−
** McQ is in favor, no disagreement - '''AI John/Paul''' make the change
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Oct 6, 2010:''' - Dani, John, Jeff, Martin
+
'''February 18, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* Feature ranges
+
* Alex: '''Building Native Launchers'''
−
** Some projects using a buckminster capability to convert feature includes to wider ranges
+
** Current way of building is kinda unpredictable - even if getting some agreement on versions to use, results are kinda unpredictable
−
** This makes it hard to reproduce builds and installs
+
** Pushing towards Hudson RHEL builders at least at the EF to get more transparency and automation - attempt to mimic the infrastructure at IBM
−
** No longer able to install SR0 once SR1 is available
+
** Looking at 3 primary architectures (at the EF) for Linux vs. secondary architectures (non-public builders potentially)
−
* Web pages
+
* Dani: Great initiative, but other (non-EF) builders must not be broken
−
** Jeff working with Kim and DJ to improve appearance of download pages, introduce Nova theme
+
** EF doesn't allow any commercial tools (but currently, e.g. Windows launchers are built with MSVS)
 +
* Alex is willing to spend time to get Linux builds running; but can't help with other architectures
 +
** Martin: great approach - for Windows, using a cross-compiler on Linux might be interesting (after Linux native works)
 +
* Alex: This is just phase one - getting rid of the binaries in git repos might be phase 2 (since the checked-in binaries easily cause inconsistencies between Java and Native side)
 +
** Martin: Checked-in binaries help consumers and contributors who just want to make a Java change
 +
** Dani: Checked-in binaries are also used for comparing build results for expected vs accidental changes
 +
 
 +
* Alex: '''{{bug|459399}} - Policy for recommended minimum execution environments for bundles'''
 +
** Dani: It works today
 +
*** To run Eclipse, Java 8 or Java 9 can be used (minimum BREE has no impact)
 +
*** To modify the source, a new JRE can be used but then the Execution Environment Descriptions need to be installed
 +
** Policy as discussed in the past: Each project can increase the BREE if there is a real need (such as generifying) and no upstream clients are broken
 +
*** But don't change the BREE without justification -- changing the BREE always has some effect, such as new warnings that would need to be addressed
 +
*** Suggested BREE for new bundles has already been changed by Lars
 +
* Alex: Even for bundles in "maintenance mode", old BREE causes issues for people who build from source (who have to change compilers etc)
 +
* No conclusion so far (Alex and Dani disagree)
 +
 
 +
* Dani: '''e4 leadership'''
 +
** Mature bits being moved to Eclipse - e4 remaining as an incubator to keep alive for experiments with low entry barrier
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Sep 29, 2010:''' - Dani, John, Martin, Jeff
+
'''February 11, 2015''' - Dani, Alex
−
* John: UNIX groups - ongoing, now with Webmaster
+
* no topics
−
* John: Parts of e4 project now moving to git - may pave the way for more git on Eclipse later on
+
−
** PDE Build Fetch factory for git currently exists as a patch on a bug, should live in egit - {{bug|289838}}
+
−
* Jeff: Download page - Cluttered and hard to navigate - {{bug|326444}} for Equinox: too many columns, too much text
+
−
** Make it easier to find "the latest"; update the look to be more consistent with main web pages
+
−
** Most people just get the SDK, or the SWT downloads
+
−
** '''AI''' File bug for discussion
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Sep 22, 2010:''' - Dani, Jeff, Martin, John
+
 
−
* John: 3.7 -> 4.1 EPP upgrade - idea is to just upgrade the Platform (not a long-term, but interim idea)
+
'''February 4, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
−
** Goal is increasing the usage of 4.1, without further producing full EPP's
+
* Alex: With GTK-3.15.[345] , Eclipse is entirely unusable
−
* Dani: How to move forward with UNIX group restructuring
+
** Alex has some dirty workarounds to make it start, but still many issues like trees not painted, ...
−
** Wait for the build.e.o problems to get resolved, then John to follow up with Denis (via the discussion bug), once there is a concrete suggestion of what is desired in terms of ACL's
+
** Crash on startup identified to be GTK bug. Fix to be released in 3.15.6 https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=edec64cda3d4518b4e87d5ea5d287d4570ba9933
−
* John: M2a rebuild - anything we can do to reduce the chance of getting such bugs in the future?
+
* Dani: Working on Solaris 64-bit
−
** No-Reference analysis warnings were turned off in the past since there were too many false positives
+
−
** Dani - Bytecode are independent of warnings, there's really 2 issues:
+
−
*** (a) compiler only changed every 6 weeks, earlier compiler adoption would have found this earlier
+
−
*** (b) bytecode comparison after builds ?
+
−
*** John: using the new p2 every week turned out to be too volatile (but compiler may be more stable)
+
−
**** Goal of updating basebuilder more often would be adding "compile Eclipse" as a big testcase for the compiler
+
−
** '''AI John''' to discuss with Kim
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Sep 15, 2010:''' - Dani, Jeff, McQ, John
 
−
* Moving up to ICU4J 4.6 which requires Java 5
 
−
** We are stuck on old version of ICU4J unless we can move to Java 5
 
−
** We previously agreed moving to Java 5 is ok - no complaints here
 
−
** Need to document the steps for someone running RCP on Foundation 1.1 - have to switch to older version of ICU4J
 
−
** This will enable us to consume future ICU4J versions that may be able to split large timezone data into a separately consumable piece.
 
−
* Unix groups
 
−
** Preference is to avoid multiple votes
 
−
** Try to use ACLs to enable multiple groups for some directories
 
−
** If this is too complex, then have two groups but not expose two votes. I.e., when a committer is approved, we need to tell webmasters to add "common" along with whatever component they are being added to.
 
−
* Release train and 3.7/4.1 split
 
−
** Planning council working out how to handle 3.7/4.1 split
 
−
** Some argued that having 4.1 EPP packages would greatly improve adoption
 
−
** Being able to "one click" upgrade from 3.7->4.1 EPP not too bad and greatly reduces dis/mirror footprint (for example a link in welcome page)
 
  
 +
'''January 28, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, John
 +
* Dani: Switch Mac OS X 10.9 with 10.10 in Mars target environments
 +
** No objections
 +
* Alex: Looking for any Eclipse related activity @Fosdem
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
−
'''Sep 8, 2010:''' - John, Jeff, McQ
+
'''January 21, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
−
* Discussed reception of 4.0 release.
+
* Alex: '''Process for allowing non-committers extended bugzilla privileges (for bug triage)?'''
−
** We probably overdid the caution and it appears to be getting very little use
+
** Dani: Yes a process exists. Send bugzilla username to Dani.
−
** Will encourage Eclipse project developers to use 4.1 builds to help find and iron out bugs
+
* Alex: '''New resource for helping with SWT'''
−
* Discussed [[Eclipse/PMC/Unix Groups]] again
+
* Dani: '''Platform/UI co-lead'''
−
** Need to resolve with webmasters how to handle "common" things. Entered {{bug|324772}} to iron out details with web master
+
* Dani: Solaris: Java 8 will only support 64 bits on both Intel and SPARC --&gt; IBM SWT Team considering to invest in getting patches in for 64-bit Solaris
−
* John asked for input on draft Indigo plan
+
−
* Discussed how to better handle ECF contributions
+
−
** Either ECF needs to be done earlier, or we have to live with our dates slipping
+
−
** Need to work together to see if we can improve contribution process
+
−
** We need to at least make sure they are in the loop on our build and end-game schedules
+
−
* Jeff mentioned target platform management in PDE has a few holes. Will have a follow-up call to dive into details with PDE committers.
+
  
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''January 14, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 +
* Dani: Update on Platform/UI Leadership: Daniel Rolka left IBM and for now has no time to contribute. He stepped down as co-lead and nominated Lars Vogel
 +
* Dani: Solaris x86 64-bit support - patches exist, but no machine available. No luck to get one from Oracle or via Eclipse Foundation. We will not support Solaris x86 64-bit unless someone makes a machine available
 +
<hr/>
  
 +
'''January 7, 2015''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 +
* Dani: '''Platform/UI Leadership'''
 +
* John: '''Git security issue''' - pick up a patch for Jgit in the packages before SR2? - Mostly an EPP
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
−
'''Sep 1, 2010:''' - John, Jeff, Dani
+
'''December 17, 2014''' - McQ, John, Dani
−
* Discussed [[Eclipse/PMC/Unix Groups]]
+
* Platform UI leadership to be discussed in the next PMC call
−
** Agreed with general direction about greatly reducing number of groups
+
* no call on December 24 and December 31
−
** Dani proposed some changes to text and search components, which have since been incorporated into the doc
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''December 10, 2014''' - Alex, McQ, John, Dani, Martin
 +
* Dani: {{bug|427768}} Mickael (Red Hat) - Nested Project support contribution to Common Navigator to better support Maven projects
 +
* Dani: Red Hat also will wants to contribute making the Import easier {{bug|421930}}. First in the e4 incubator.
 +
** Just import from a folder, and contribute project configurators via extension point (e.g. detect POM files, Makefiles, ...)
 +
** McQ: Many complexities ... different users may want very different things to happen
 +
*** McQ: Just point to a Git repo -- the Git repo has a little metadata file at the root which allows launching the apps that the repo had been intended for ... maybe just make the project tree(s) a little more self-describing
 +
*** Is there a growing list of repos which already have that? - John: In the Java world, pom.xml is getting that ...
 +
*** Alex: .doap getting this (at least for Apache and GNOME projects - specifies at least the languages used)
 +
* Web IDEs : McQ and others gone through a lot of analysis of Web IDE's
 +
** Cloud9 has a much larger set of starting points ; in terms of the underlying core structure, Orion (and also Jay) are more interesting
 +
** Orion has an extremely lightweight plug-in model: pieces coming from all over the world may look like all running on the server - nice infrastructure for building Community around it
 +
** Orion + Flux could be a rival for anything out there
 +
** Orion continues to push on the Core Coding experience - Orion Editor is on par or better than most desktop editors
 +
* Vision: See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-vision/msg00065.html Minutes on the platform-vision mailing list] ... Delivery will depend on people actually participating
  
−
'''Aug 25, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin
+
<hr/>
−
* Dani - 3.6.1 looks ok - no other topics
+
'''December 3, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, John (McQ travelling)
 +
* John: [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-vision/ Platform Vision] - How to turn that into actionable items, Wayne wants to present to the Board
 +
* John: '''Performance tests''' running again since a couple weeks, now the graphs are also back again :)
 +
** See http://download.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/drops4/I20141202-0800/performance.php
 +
** Results are there but fingerprints currently missing
 +
** Baseline is 4.4.0 at the moment (consider comparing against 3.x at some point)
 +
** John: From experience, a single result isn't helpful, there's often weird anomalies from build to build ... need to look at trends over multiple builds, thus the graphs are really useful
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Aug 18, 2010:''' - Dani, John, Martin
+
'''November 26, 2014''' - Alex, Dani
−
* John - '''Eclipse 3.x and 4.0''' and the Release Train
+
* No relevant topics / decisions
−
** Early feedback from 4.0 adopters is that most stuff actually works when dropping in binaries (talking binary compatibility, not source compatibility)
+
−
** Martin is concerned that dropping binaries built against 3.x into 4.0 will fail late at runtime only, due to use of internals
+
−
** John suggests API usage scan to understand issues early
+
−
** Martin is more interested in source compatibility (build against 4.0) - can this be made super simple?
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Aug 11, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani
+
'''November 19, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, Dani (''McQ and John had issues dialing in'')
−
* McQ - '''3.7 Planning Process''' - input requested from all committers about plan items
+
* Dani: '''Jetty 9''' - Upgrade has been done, but new versions coming out ... will probably update from Jetty 9.2.3 to Jetty 9.2.5. Probably 9.3
−
* '''Eclipse 4.0 Feedback''' - not too much seen, neither good nor bad
+
** WTP interested in newer Jetty version ... need to agree on a common version across the Release Train.
 +
** Alex: New Jetty JSP compiler failing ... filed a bug, will want this fixed (Jetty working on it)
 +
* Dani: '''{{bug|179924}} Request for ssh-agent''' - patch against Team from YMNK (JSch Committer)
 +
** egit would contribute the agent, but would make more sense putting it in Platform (+1 from Martin, no objection from Alex)
 +
* Equinox Declarative Services implementation - ProSyst stopped providing fixes, not responsive any more
 +
** New specificiation (R6) from OSGi adding lot of features, cannot risk staying behind
 +
** Suggestion to remove the ProSyst stuff and replace it with the Apache Felix implementation (used by IBM / WebSphere and others)
 +
** Martin: How mature / stable is the Felix code ? Can we influence it ?
 +
*** Dani: Very mature. Have more influence on Felix than on the Prosyst stuff ... through the IBM committers and others.
 +
*** Alex agrees. Using some parts of Felix already.
 +
* John (via Dani): '''Move e4 into Platform/UI''' - would like to start the review process next week.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Aug 4, 2010:''' - meeting cancelled
+
'''November 5, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* Eclipse Foundation greatbugs initiative - call into PMC
 +
* Dani: EclipseCon Europe Report - met lot of people, best attended EclipseCon Europe ever :)
 +
** IOT; IDE in the Web; are people moving away from Eclipse before the transition to Web can be completed ?
 +
* Alex: Discussion with Christian Campo on scaling up
 +
** Should better go into SWT ... but SWT has a reputation that it's hard getting a change in -- people prefer re-doing things their own than contributing :(
 +
** Alex thinks this problem doesn't exist any more ... but how to fight this misconception ?
 +
** John: Getting a change in may now be hard due to other reasons, eg lack of experienced committers
 +
** Alex: Consider voting in new committers more easily if somebody is interested ?
 +
* Alex: Difference between Eclipse and the Linux Foundation
 +
** Linux Foundation doesn't provide anything that anybody can use directly (just a source tarball) --&gt; all users become "contributors" of some sort
 +
** This leads to different expectations and has a number advantages (eg issues are reported to and worked on by member companies only)
 +
 
 +
'''October 22, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, John
 +
* Platform plan update nearly done, will be released soon
 +
* Orion release review is ongoing, release will be next week
 +
* Brief discussion of new bug reporting tool and related bug [https://dev.eclipse.org/recommenders/committers/dashboard/#/dashboard/temp/e6leTB3gQy-zUZI-73KtRQ dashboard]
 +
* PMC called '''canceled''' next week due to EclipseCon Europe
 +
 
 +
'''October 1, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ
 +
* Dani - In touch with Oracle regarding Solaris x86
 +
* McQ - '''Platform UI''' tension between making Platform UI as stable as possible, versus new features
 +
** Community forming for new contributions - that's great! - But takes committer's time; committers reduced to "productize and fix" is problematic
 +
** how to get more contributions for bug fixes ?
 +
*** Alex: What about saying "This release we only accept bug fixes" ? Or for some milestone, eg after M4 only accept bug fixes ?
 +
*** Dani: Sounds great, but will the Community accept that ? - JDT BugBash did not work that well...
 +
*** Dani to prepare a draft message
 +
* Dani was in Bangalore - talked to Arun - good collaboration with Alex
 +
** Hard to get new SWT developers (Sami moving away on RH side)
 +
** Ideas to keep SWT relevant ... eg generate Browser based things
 +
*** GTK3 supports running in a browser now... (just one label for now, but an interesting approach)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 28, 2010:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani, Jeff
+
'''September 24, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, John, Martin
−
* Discussed process for handling security patches
+
* John: '''SWT Binaries Repository''' has got too big
−
** If patches had metadata that would allow them to be flagged as security or "critical" patches, then p2 could automatically apply them on startup
+
** Will prune old versions out of the git repository (which is only used internally) - "Release" drops will still be available from release builds.
−
** Deluxe solution would use out of process installer to be able to repair corrupt install that can't even start
+
** '''DECISION:''' OK to prune.
−
** Simple solution is to put patches in the eclipse/updates/3.6 repository and users need to apply them manually
+
* '''SWT master still has sources for old Platforms''' like carbon and motif - cluttering up the source code
−
* McQ gave a summary of the state of the Eclipse SDK 4.0 release (see his later [http://dev.eclipse.org/blogs/mcqjustmcq/2010/07/28/growing-the-future/ blog post]).
+
** '''DECISION:''' OK to remove references - source would remain in git for old branches, but not be visible in master any more.
−
* Discussed possibility of facet work moving to e4
+
* Dani: '''p2 and Equinox''' - no sign-off for M2, leaders stepping down ?
−
** Need to be clear on what would be required to migrate it to the platform
+
** consider moving p2 back into Equinox, and probably Equinox back into the Eclipse project ?
−
** Have separate call with Konstantin to discuss
+
** John: Equinox committers not really knowledgeable about p2 ... still, with less than 3 active committers a threshold is reached (can't hold elections any more)
−
* Discussed state of builds moving to Foundation infrastructure
+
** Still there's a couple of people contributing, so there are knowledgeable folk around
−
** Could explore migrating build to different build technology such as Buckminster or Tycho if it provides any benefit
+
** Dani: If there's committers committing code, they should also be responsible for sign-off
−
** Concern about the build/test machines becoming a bottleneck as more projects move to it
+
* Dani: '''Java 7 and Jetty 9'''
−
** Still need to run performance tests on IBM hardware for now because virtualized machine is not consistent enough
+
** Been using Jetty 8 for a while, now, there is Community Pressure upgrading to Jetty 9 but that requires Java 7
 +
** Java 6 no longer getting public updates since February 2013
 +
** John:Adoptions needed in the Help System when moving to Jetty 9 ?
 +
*** Alex don't think so - been shipping Jetty 9 for over a year already; only required changing some dependencies.
 +
*** '''ACTION ITEM: Alex offered to check this'''
 +
* Alex: '''Drop all the Java 6 Platforms from the list of Reference Platforms?'''
 +
** '''DECISION:''' Yes this needs to be done. Trying to support Java 6 won't buy any benefit at this point.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 21, 2010:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani
+
'''September 17, 2014''' - no meeting
−
* McQ - '''State of Eclipse 4.0'''
+
−
** Not where we'd like us to be, but converging fast and there seem no issues blocking shipping
+
−
** Not slowing down people any more, and get some new capabilities (view tear-off etc)
+
−
** Should we have 3.7 and 4.1 release trains? allow projects to choose? - Discussions ongoing with PC, Foundation (enough resources to support this?)
+
−
* John - '''Eclipse 4.0 Release Review'''
+
−
** Need to go public now to have 1-week review period
+
−
* Dani - need to start publishing the '''3.6.1 freeze plan'''
+
−
* Dani - '''separate groups for resources and runtime'''
+
−
** Too small micro-components make operation harder
+
−
** McQ 0, Martin 0, Dani +1, John +1 (but strive for more simplicity on other areas)
+
−
* Vacations - McQ 2 weeks off starting Aug 16
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 14, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani
+
'''September 10, 2014''' - John, Martin, Alex, Dani
−
* Dani - '''Problem launching Oracle/Sun jre6u21 on Windows'''
+
* John: Mars having some build hickups due to removing Mac 32-bit builds
−
** {{bug|319514}} Quickly runs out of Permgen space, because the vendor name has changed and so the -XXPermGen flag is not appended
+
* John: Luna SR1 - almost done, respinning for 2 bugs in Equinox
−
** Put in a quick workaround for 3.6.1, patch ahead of time (some people wanted a 3.6a but we don't think that's worth the ripple)
+
* John: Cloud TLP (for Orion and others) - still on track for announcing end October
−
** Most commercial products ship a VM, so likely not as bad as thought
+
* Alex: Been busy with other stuff recently, back on the GTK version support discussion this week
−
*** Very natural that failure can happen when we don't control the VMs and the VM has custom arguments
+
** Martin: Many people will know what distro they have (or need), but not what GTK they have on there
−
** Only a windows issue for now (Linux parses version and looks for "hotspot")
+
*** John: Also running GTK on AIX, Solaris, Linux Power and other which are not moving up that fast...
−
** Martin: Placing a .hotspotrc file somewhere is another possible workaround
+
*** Martin: Examples: RHEL 5.8 was GTK 2.10.4-21 ; RHEL 4.5 was at GTK 2.4.13-22
−
** Dani and Martin propose updating the FAQ, adding a Readme section, circulating the information about workarounds should be sufficient.
+
*** Popular distros would be Ubuntu LTS, RHEL, OpenSUSE
 +
** Alex: Newer distros have up to 3 GTK versions installed, along with some means to switch between them, it's very confusing
 +
** Eclipse is the only project that dynamically loads DLL's and tries to support a broad range ... others typically compile against a specific version
 +
*** Most projects require GTK 2.24
 +
** John: GTK versions are not really predictable ... between 3.04 and 3.10 there was a breaking change
 +
** Alex: In every release there are small issues that we work around; and there's certain releases that are breaking stuff
 +
** '''NEXT ACTION: Send E-Mail'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 7, 2010:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, John, Dani
+
'''September 3, 2014''' - John, Alex, Dani
−
* McQ - '''Graduating e4 without changing the name'''
+
* Dani: away next week and on/off the next two weeks due to travel
−
** Jeff - a little effort upfront on messaging may pay off really big in the longer run ... picking up 4.0 without proper messaging may end up in lot negative press
+
* Dani: RC4 next week. PMC please watch the PMC mailing list
−
** eg messages about the state of Performance, BIDI, ... cf Eclipse 4.0 "Early Adopter Release"
+
** John: will be available and monitor the mailing list
−
* Dani - '''BREE to 1.5 for JDT-UI''', what is the process?
+
* Dani: Oracle interested in providing access to a Solaris 64-bit machine {{bug|442266}}
−
** '''approved''', all in favor, eat our own dogfood, 1.6 does not provide much benefit
+
* John: How/where to graduate the e4 tools
−
* Dani - '''Checkin Policies for 3.6.1 Maintenance Stream'''
+
** the community wants to graduate this out of incubation
−
** We should have more control over what goes into M-builds .. what's the least intrusive way doing so?
+
** initially proposed to create a separate project, but feels like adding too much overhead
−
** McQ suggests M7-ish policies + endgame . Dani suggests mandatory 1-committer code review. Martin requires fix verification.
+
** John: proposed PDE as home, then Dani suggested to use Platform UI
−
** Bring up the topic on Arch call, since committers are affected .. the goal is keeping quality high and having change control.
+
** Alex, Dani and John agree to suggest Platform UI as home for the e4 tools.
 +
** John to send a note to Lars
 +
* Alex: Limit supported number of GTK+ versions
 +
** SWT currently has to support over 20 different version. This doesn't scale.
 +
** Proposal: Bump min supported version with one minor release each release. Aka Luna has Gtk 2.10 as min, Mars would have 2.12 as min. Can consider even two minor releases (Mars requires 2.14) as this would keep the amount of supported versions the same as GTK releases one minor release every 6 months.
 +
** Dani, John: this is too limiting. We tended to support the most possible. Newest versions might have too many bugs.
 +
** All agree: we'd like to limit the amount of supported versions
 +
** Alex to cast a poll via Eclipse Foundation, which versions are used by users and companies
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 30, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, John
+
 
−
* No negative response yet about switching to Java 6 reference platforms
+
'''August 27, 2014''' - cancelled
−
** Components free to move up but not a free-for-all. Justify reasons for moving up on eclipse-pmc mailing list.
+
−
** In many cases there is little added benefit of Java 6 so Java 5 is more likely as a bundle execution environment
+
−
* 4.0 release and bundle/package naming
+
−
** Agreed that we will not migrate bundle/package namespaces at this time
+
−
** e4 API is not ready so the separation is helpful to divide it from the mature API
+
−
** It is not simply a package name issue, there are also class names containing "e4". Need to work through the process of merging the new API with the old, but this will take time
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 23, 2010:''' - Jeff, John
+
 
−
* No topics
+
'''August 20, 2014''' - John, Alex, Dani
 +
* Dani: new platform PowerPC 64-bit LE {{bug|441358 }}
 +
** maintained by IBM
 +
** will be added to 4.4.1 as early access
 +
** Dani to send a note to cross-platform
 +
* Dani: individual made patches to support Solaris 64-bit {{bug|442266}}
 +
** we'd like to add it but don't have a machine to support it
 +
** important because our current 32-bit Solaris build will become obselete since there's no 32-bit JRE for Java 7 and beyond
 +
** Oracle should be interested since they provide both, Java and Solaris
 +
** Dani to ask Oracle
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 16, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Jeff
+
 
−
* McQ - '''Java 4 going away''' (was EOL since October 2008, Java 5 EOL since October 2009)
+
'''August 13, 2014''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
−
** Dani: Don't bump up any BREBump up to 1.5 only if needed
+
* Dani: Any feedback for the [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_5.xml Mars plan]?
−
** Jeff: If moving off 1.4, why not move up to 1.6 ?
+
** McQ:
−
*** Reality is that we want the tiny Foundatation-1.1 or the big wad, and 1.5 is no better than 1.6
+
*** It does not cover Orion, but that is OK and like in previous release plans. Orion will most likely be moved to another top-level project soon.
−
*** Equinox may start using Generics and down-compile to 1.4 ... think about what's in ercp
+
*** We want to remove Mac OS X Universal 32-bit (all agreed)
−
** Start a cross-project discussion... question is whether everyone who depends on Platform has 1.6 VM Support
+
* Dani: How to deal with requests to push our bundles to repo.eclipse.org {{bug|441530}}
−
** Martin has no problem with 1.6, suggest asking on cross-project / some of the bigger players (e.g. Jetty, Modeling, ...)
+
** Dani: OK for me but we won't do the work
−
*** McQ to ask Boris bring up with the Board
+
** Alex: Maven needs the dependencies in the pom.xml. We don't want copy them from the manifest into the pom.xml and then maintain this. The pom should be updated when publishing the file into the Maven repo. Ideally by an automated task.
−
* Martin, Jeff, Dani vacation next 2 weeks (likely not on the call).
+
** Conclusion: all agree with this, i.e. we won't do the actual work and we won't "pollute" our pom files.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 9, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, McQ, John
+
'''August 6, 2014''' - McQ, Dani
−
* Dani - '''Approval for Docs''' - flexibility around docs is good, but after RC4 is too late.
+
* Dani: Will provide initial Mars plan next week
−
* Dani - '''Re-Opening HEAD''' - basically OK, to be discussed at the Arch call.
+
 
−
* McQ - '''Shutting down status messages''' for rest of the month except for really noteworthy things.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 2, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, McQ, John, McQ
+
'''No meetings in July'''
−
* Dani - '''ECF Issues''': Why does Eclipse have a process with Approvals while ECF does not. At the moment, there is a mutual dependency.
+
 
−
** Once we decided to consume them, we have no control over their rules.
+
−
** Our only option is not consuming late changes from them (and thus burn the community and them).
+
−
** John - there are some cases where we could push back a bit more (without going to the limit of not consuming at all).
+
−
** Problems have been due to the build (and not due to quality issues in their code). But this doesn't change the fact that '''ANY''' late binding change is work and risk and should thus be pushed back if possible.
+
−
** McQ would like to be more flexible accepting changes .. are we becoming too stiff? ie. do what we can to mitigate risk, but live with taking risk .. that's part of the Eclipse Way.
+
−
* John - '''Builds after RC4'''
+
−
** Need PMC agreement. John going to discuss cross-project criteria.
+
−
** McQ doesn't want to tie our release to the winds of others (outside Eclipse) getting back to us or not. '''We should not be asking cross-project for approval.'''
+
−
** Each project is going to do what makes most sense to them (including us). In favor of having the conversation, but not asking for approval.
+
−
* John - '''When to start 3.7 and 3.6.1 builds''' - defer to next week.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 26, 2010:''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Jeff, John
+
'''Jun 4, 2014''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex
−
* Brief meeting. John just mentions that there's surprisingly many "Critical" bugs. Maybe just a triage problem. Will bring up in Arch call.
+
* Dani: '''RC4 Status''' looking good
 +
** 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
 +
** Rest of the team working on docs
 +
** Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
 +
* John: '''Went over the N&N''' ... number of things went in after M7 :)
 +
** Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 19, 2010:''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Jeff, John
+
'''Jun 11, 2014''' - Martin, McQ, Alex, John
−
* John - {{bug|27930}} '''Naming of Eclipse Classic'''
+
* John: Eclipse Theming: When switching the OS Theme to dark, Eclipse should be aware
−
** McQ - No other package on that page is the output of a single project, would want to see Eclipse SDK removed from packages page
+
** Dark Theme is currently a tech preview
−
** Jeff - "RCP/Plugin Developer" used to be direct replacements (SDK + Mylyn + XML Editor), but now also includes RAP (217MB)
+
 
−
** Dani - Some people go to downloads/ and then look for a milestone
+
−
** "Development Builds" tab provides access to milestones of packages; "Projects" tab provides access to direct project output.
+
−
** '''Resolution:''' 650.000 people have downloaded classic (#2 download), even scrolling down - changing this is a waste.
+
−
* Dani - {{bug|313524}} '''Preference for new API Constant''' for the Formatter (also [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=59891#c45 bug 59891 comment 45] and onwards)
+
−
** Some people don't like the new look (method wrapping) - currently no way to have the formatter behave the same in 3.5 and 3.6
+
−
** '''Resolution:''' pmc+ since little effort avoids lot of churn. Keeping the functionality without allowing to disable is a no-go.
+
−
* Martin - '''Feedback channel for removing API''' process (e.g. {{bug|311931}})
+
−
** '''Resolution:''' Add a suggestion to the [[Eclipse/API Central/API Removal Process]] page to start fresh for the feedback channel if there's a lot of discussion on the existing bug (by bugzilla clone)
+
−
* John - '''4.0 topics'''
+
−
** FYI: Ian created a draft of a [http://www.eclipse.org/helios/eclipse-sdk-4.0/ landing page]. Working on a [http://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse/Eclipse_SDK_4.0_FAQ release FAQ] page
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 12, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, John, Jeff, Dani
+
'''Jun 4, 2014''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex
−
* Remaining work for Release - John: Checklist (Docs, collective N&N etc... IP Logs end May)
+
* Dani: '''RC4 Status''' looking good
−
** [[Eclipse/Release checklist]], and [[Eclipse Doc Checklist]]. '''AI Dani''' has another one for Docs - will update for 3.6 and send offline
+
** 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
−
** [[Platform-releng-faq#Eclipse_Release_checklist]] also links to [[3.3 Release checklist]]
+
** Rest of the team working on docs
−
* IP Logs for subprojects - '''AI Jeff''' talk to Wayne to allow IP logs for container projects, also ask Boris (committer rep) - unsure if we have a committer rep on the IP Advisory committee, but we should have
+
** Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
−
* Eclipse SDK 4.0 Naming
+
* John: '''Went over the N&N''' ... number of things went in after M7 :)
−
** John - from Mailing List discussion, "Eclipse SDK 4.0 Early Adopter Release" seemed to be the favorite one
+
** Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way
−
** Next year's release will be 4.1. Ian going to prepare a landing page to send the right message, working with Boris and John
+
 
−
* API Deletion - luceneSearchParticipant
+
−
** Deprecation should include a migration path (if it exists).
+
−
** Will document deletions in the migration guide (and probably also in the README)
+
−
** Martin: Add a Bugzilla Keyword for API Deletions, will make it very easy to create a query for all pending API deletions
+
−
** Jeff: Whatever we do, current deletions should be examplary.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 5, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, John, Dani
+
'''May 28, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* Martin - {{bug|309059}} root cert validity? - Tom investigating, no new info
+
* Dani: '''EOL'ing the Delta Pack''' - announce now, remove during Mars - it's been obsoleted by p2 functionality
−
* Martin - How to mark issues for [[Polish3.6]] (UNC issues, Launcher vmargs {{bug|149994}}) - who sets the Bugzilla polish kwd?
+
** Alex: Some of the test suite relied on the delta pack, it caused issues, OK with removing (PDE tests would need to be cleaned up)
−
** Martin to bring up again, and add to the Polish Wiki, and add the polish keyword on bz.
+
* Dani: '''Copyright Updates''' - tool is very slow since not ported from CVS properly, can run for hours
−
** Any Eclipse Platform committer is allowed to suggest items that bug him personally on the polish list (against any component).
+
** John: Worth doing periodically but probably won't matter legally since copyright lasts for 7 years
−
* John - Helios Plan update
+
** The change is not without risk (Dani: Could schedule after the release)
−
* John - API Removal
+
** McQ: Should consider updating the tool as part of that work
 +
** Alex: Has a new intern, could use this as an opportunity to join
 +
* Dani: '''RC3 status''' - last planned build - looking good, except for Platform UI, where the list of bugs is still long
 +
* McQ: Discussions about a new Eclipse.org Web-based Toplevel Project
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 28, 2010:''' - Jeff, Martin, John, McQ, Dani
+
'''May 14, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
−
* Martin - '''[[Eclipse/UNC_Paths]]''' - testing for 3.6 ? Bugzilla: [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwords&short_desc=unc&classification=Eclipse&classification=RT&product=Equinox&product=Platform&product=JDT&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&product=PDE All open with UNC in the summary]
+
* Alex: SWT GTK3 and the Endgame Rules
−
** Especially {{bug|289322}} and {{bug|262601}} are blocking for Martin, because these make it impossible to have Eclipse installed on an UNC path (common scenario in large organizations)
+
* Dani: Luna Plan Update
−
** Consensus: ''No concerted effort'', there are likely other more pressing issues; but ''investigate and prioritize what we find, and fix if possible''.
+
* John: New Dashboard created by the EMO
−
** <b><i>Running on UNC is considered a Polish item</i></b>.
+
−
* Jeff, McQ - '''Eclipse 4.0 Naming'''
+
−
** Suggestion: "Eclipse 4.0 Indigo Preview"
+
−
** McQ: Don't want to send a negative message - it ''is'' usable though add-on support may be missing
+
−
** John: This is a new release of the Platform, but not all of Eclipse Foundation technology... unsure how to phrase that into a release name
+
−
** Jeff: Based on this, putting Indigo into the name is a negative and may trigger false assumptions
+
−
** McQ: ''Eclipse SDK 4.0 Developer Release'' - sends the right message
+
−
** Jeff: '''Come up with 3 or 4 suggestions and bounce these around'''. Start a public discussion. Check with other OSS projects, e.g. Andrew Overholt
+
−
* McQ - '''1.5 BREE for Resources to support Unicode Characters'''
+
−
** Suggest everything on top of the base RCP move up to 1.5
+
−
** Jeff: "Move when you need to and not before" - when do we "need to"
+
−
* John - '''[[Eclipse/API Central/API Removal Process]]
+
−
** Just a compilation of things discussed before. '''Discuss on the Mailing List'''
+
−
* McQ - '''Pascal as the OBR spec lead'''
+
−
** From point of view of the Eclipse Project, can't imagine what value we'd get from participating in OBR spec. IBM might care.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 21, 2010:''' - Jeff, Martin, John, Dani, McQ
+
'''May 7, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, John, Martin
−
* John - extended '''2 day test pass''' for M7 on Mon and Tue
+
* Martin {{bug|241957}} - GTK clipboard hang
−
* Jeff - '''Eclipse 4.0 naming'''
+
** Alex: GTK guys recommended using the async API, but no time for more investigation
−
** McQ hopes that Eclipse 4.0 will be good enough for public consumption - whatever we call it, it needs to be what we call it
+
** McQ: Switching a sync API to async implementation underneath can be extremely messy (need to be aware of all possible events and event sources...)
−
** Jeff - the message should be that it's (a) new, (b) cool, (c) not quite done yet
+
** McQ: If there is an idea canceling the clipboard wait ... given that the issue occurs only rarely, even a hacky solution is better than nothing
−
** McQ - 4.0 won't be as performant as 3.x. Users will see the new cool presentation, but other than that it's like 3.6
+
* Dani: will do a plan update, hopefully this week
−
** Biggest problem will be people who don't follow the Community and just get 4.0 because they heard about it
+
−
** Jeff - Comes down to setting expectations. Naming is one aspect of this, there's other aspects.
+
−
** John - Ian organized an e4-evangelist call.
+
−
** McQ - Most people will just consume the release train (Helios) anyways, and will notice that 4.0 is "different".
+
−
* Martin - {{bug|306822}} '''IncrementalBuilder.getRule()''' API addition: Ask James whether CDT Helios can pick up the change
+
−
* Martin - '''James for committer''' - move to public policy of only considering committed contributions
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 14, 2010:''' - John, Dani, Martin, Jeff
+
'''April 30, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
−
* Martin - '''Startup Performance tests''': Cold start after reboot is 20% slower in 3.6m6 compared to 3.5.2 (while warm start is about the same)
+
* McQ: '''WB4 perspective customization''' - has it caused any issues ?
−
** Manual test: Reboot a minimal WinXP system, then start into a fresh workspace with 1 JDT project (20 files) 1 open file in the editor.
+
** Martin: Dealing with detached views works differently (dragging a window fails - must drag the tab inside the window)
−
** 28 sec in 3.5.2 but 36 sec in 3.6m6. Will file a bug tomorrow.
+
** Dani: Saved perspectives / windows are lost on an existing workspace when moving from 3.x to 4.x
−
** John: There are 2 startup performance tests in the suite, but they are unreliable. In 3.6, changed the way tests are installed (director rather than dropins), thus baseline is not helpful.
+
*** Martin/McQ: When crossing the major version boundary, it is OK to lose state - it's not nice but acceptable
−
** Jeff: Try have a look at {{Bug|308157}} Jarfile cache now limited to 100. Reason might just be cycling through more Jar's.
+
** Dani: The bigger problem is, that the whole "Perspective customization" dialog is still not working as expected
−
* John, Dani - '''Polish List'''
+
*** Martin: Agree with the concern, but the Perspective customization dialog wasn't ever great
−
* John - '''e4 plan update'''. Waiting on McQ, wants an accurate list on what's graduating.
+
*** McQ: If invest work here, rather make it good than bring back the previous status quo
−
** Jeff - once something is in 4.0 you cannot remove in 4.x so better think twice before graduating.
+
*** Martin: Most customization done via plugin.xml / Java , don't expect end users to do a lot of customization themselves
−
** John - Eclipse SDK 4.0 has a minimal API exposed, most new stuff is under the covers so this is not so much of an issue.
+
* Dani: '''M7 status'''
−
** Jeff - More important to have Eclipse SDK 4.0 rock solid than have it feature complete. Do few things well rather than many things poorly.
+
** Defect triage under control - some items deferred to 4.5
−
** John - '''Self-hosting a day on Eclipse 4.0 without blocking issues!''' (But much to be polished, bugs, errors in the log etc).
+
 
−
* Jeff - '''Runtime SDK's vs "targets"''': The label SDK is ambiguous. Want to install tooling + target platform together, but cannot do that today.
+
−
** Today, we use "SDK" for (a) tools+source+docs, or (b) runtime+source+docs. None of both is really an SDK.
+
−
** Better call the target stuff just "targets".
+
−
** Developer docs as part of the tooling is wrong ... should be associated with targets instead.
+
−
** John: p2 does have the ability to install into multiple profiles (plan = multiple profiles)... might be (mis)used for this, is it a hack?
+
−
** Jeff: Much target provisioning was deferred off 3.6
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 7, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff, John
+
'''April 23, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin
−
* Builds - short call
+
* Alex - GTK2 or GTK3 as default - GTK3 it is
 +
** GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to
 +
*** xulrunner - latest version not supported by swt and latest distros don't even ship standalone xulrunner
 +
*** webkitgtk - gtk2 version in maintenance mode, upstream consider dropping, really crashy See [https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-gtk/2014-March/001821.html]
 +
** GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
 +
** McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
 +
* Dani - '''Freeze Plan created'''
 +
* John - '''Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret'''
 +
*
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Mar 31, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
'''April 16, 2014''' - Dani, Alex
−
* Martin - '''EclipseCon Report'''
+
* no topics today
−
** General industry trend pointing up (as perceived on the exhibition floor); e4 rover great success! other strong topics included build (b3, buckminster, maven / tycho / nexus, athena...)
+
−
** e4 message in general very well positioned and received; git / egit was another hot topic
+
−
** Modeling and RT projects in an up trend, other projects seem to go slightly down in terms of Community interest as well as commercial involvement
+
−
** API Tutorial very well received, Martin going to work on a "Wiki" version of checklists and guidance, will notify AC when done
+
−
* John - Eclipse 4.0: Timing for graduating e4 incubation material into the Eclipse proper
+
−
** We cannot ship an Eclipse SDK out of the e4 project
+
−
** Want a clear message what Eclipse 4.0 is... probably "includes incubating components" like some EPP packages
+
−
** '''AI John''' talk to Mike and Ian
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Mar 17, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
+
'''April 9, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* McQ: '''git''' vs CVS: Should there be contributions by Platform on Egit?
+
* Dani - '''Kepler SR2 and Java 8'''
−
** Martin: Don't know how well egit proceeded recently, Boris might know more... important point is that the major workflows are perfect. Looks like the major workflows have been identified already.
+
** Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
−
* Martin: '''WebkitGTK / MiniBrowser''': In addition to the recent WebkitGTK discussion, perhaps work on a "Minibrowser" API that can live with published frozen Mozilla API only? Many apps may not need the full feature-richness of today's Browser.
+
** Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
−
** McQ unsure whether this is worthwile, since all industry trends go towards more web integration. '''AI Martin''' follow up with Grant
+
** Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
−
* Dani: '''Performance and Polish''' passes
+
** Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
−
** All teams need to fix the issues that Frederic finds. M7 is the performance and polish pass. Prioritize items.
+
 
−
* Dani: '''Freeze Plan'''
+
* John - '''Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions'''
−
** Suggest a 2-day test pass (mon/tue) before the RC's, ie move 1 day from RC2 into M7
+
** Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
 +
** Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
 +
** Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
 +
** Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Mar 10, 2010:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, John
+
 
−
* John: '''Provisional API guidelines''' (removing the requirement to have "internal" in the package name) - important for e4 which will have a lot of provisional API.
+
'''April 2, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
−
** See also {{bug|261874}} and Wiki [[Provisional API Guidelines Update Proposal]]
+
* Dani - new GTK3+ issues
−
** "Old School" wanted to make provisional API deliberately painful. Migrating "provisional" to real without renaming will make breakage more subtle
+
** crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX ({{bug|431330}})
−
** The game has changed: Adding x-internal, friends and API Tooling works much better than before, making it clear where API is provisional
+
** problems with main menu ({{bug|419830}})
−
** Martin: Much in favor of this, do we have any markup beyond x-internal for (a) making provisional API more explicitly visible or (b) work on a smaller granularity such as just a class?
+
* Dani - '''Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work'''
−
*** McQ: granularity smaller than package makes it too easy to pollute API
+
** Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
−
*** Jeff: would like x-api-status:=provisional markup instead of x-internal:=true ... better do it right than half-baken. Could probably come to a fairly fast consensus on MANIFEST markup
+
* Dani - need to '''approve API changes for Java 8 in M7'''
−
** Resolution Lets agree now that x-internal is sufficient for provisional API, and discuss further approvements in parallel. '''AI John''' to search existing bugs about provisional API markup and initiate a discussion on the eclipse-pmc mailing list.
+
** No API changes, only additions
−
* Jeff: '''Target Provisioning and PDE:''' Target components in Galileo (which cannot be installed into the host) - came up with sort of a hack which still confuses users
+
** Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
−
** Want just a little bit help in PDE to make target provisioning just a little bit better .. a number of PDE bugs related to this, many been deferred .. there will be new bugs coming to capture what can be done in the short term
+
** ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
−
** Resolution: will mark up those new bugs where they request PMC involvement
+
** There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
−
* McQ: '''Build Quality:''' There is traditionally a drop in quality around this time of year (API Freeze and Eclipsecon), plus infrastructure problems. It's not really bad but we need to be careful now.
+
* John - '''SWT over JavaFX'''
−
** John: Resist the urge to put in extra fixes. We are past the test pass. Quality over function, especially now.
+
** EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
 +
** Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
 +
** Relationship to Tom Schindl's [http://www.eclipse.org/efxclipse/index.html e(fx)clipse project] ?
 +
*** e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
 +
*** Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
 +
*** Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in {{bug|426243}}
 +
*** Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
 +
**** It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
 +
**** John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
 +
*** Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Mar 3, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
+
'''March 26, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* Martin: Remove org.eclipse.update.configurator and related bundles from SDK? As per {{bug|304505}} it makes Eclipse slow even when off.
+
* John - '''EclipseCon Update'''
−
** Dani: Might be more than a packaging issue, somebody would have to invest
+
** Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
−
** McQ: Should fix the Performance issue at any rate, regardless of other issues.
+
** IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
−
* John sick, Dani vacation next week.
+
** Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
 +
** Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
 +
** See also Blog Posts from [http://cdtdoug.ca/ Doug Schaefer] and [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/author/irbull/ Ian Bull] as well as [https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2014/news/top-5-ian-bull top 5 from Ian]
 +
* John - '''ARM port of GTK''' - any tracking items ?
 +
** Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
 +
** IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
 +
** Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
 +
** Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
 +
*** Example: {{bug|430698}}, {{bug|429237}}, {{bug|415757}}; {{bug|419855}} talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
 +
*** Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
 +
*** Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
 +
**** Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
 +
**** Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
 +
* Alex - '''Java 8 vs Java 7''' currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
 +
** In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
 +
** ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is {{bug|390889}} and we'll try to fix it for M7.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Feb 24, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
+
'''March 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
−
* Dani: Remove Java 7 support as a plan item due to (a) legal reasons and (b) Java 7 not being finished when Eclipse 3.6 ships
+
* McQ - '''Congrats on Java 8 Release''' to coincide with the Oracle release
 +
* Dani - '''Windows 8 Support''' - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
 +
** McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
 +
** Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
 +
** Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Feb 17, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, John
+
'''March 12, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, McQ, John
−
* Martin: {{bug|196337}} Pushing CDT Spawner into the Platform?
+
* GTK - SWT team discussions
−
** John, Dani: Platform could only accept it when there is use for it in the SDK. Otherwise it would just bloat the Platform
+
* John - '''preparing for Java 8 release'''
−
** Recommended best practice: Keep Spawner living in CDT, but put it into a separate bundle such that it can be used by others out of Helios or other p2 Repos
+
−
** The [[Nexus Project]], which was once meant to collect such micro functionality to be shared between projects was never successful. Similar requests (e.g. faceted projects) are consumed as individual bundles through p2 today, no matter in which project they have their home where they are developed.
+
−
* Martin: {{bug|301563}} Fast project import from snapshot data - UI or not?
+
−
** John: Want some UI in the Platform in order to test it more easily, e.g. an export wizard
+
−
* John: Webkit
+
−
** Foundation is considering allowing LGPL for exempt prereqs, but not for works-with .. missing a policy for dealing with LGPL works-with
+
−
** John: Our original reason for marking works-with is that the SWT browser can use either Mozilla or WebKit. However our long term direction is WebKit-only due to brittleness of the Mozilla API which keeps breaking us. There is an increasing number of distros bundling these WebKit libraries so there is a reasonable chance going forward that the library will already be present on the user's machine.
+
−
** Martin: Exempt works-with (optional) prereq is perfectly fine for Webkit, since there is a chance it's already there on a Platform (similar to Mozilla)
+
−
** Classifying it as such makes most sense for Product builders, who look at the prereqs to understand what they need to bundle with their Eclipse based product.
+
−
** PMC agreed to reclassify these libraries as exempt pre-req.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Feb 10, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ
+
'''March 5, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* We agreed to list WebKitGTK and libsoup 2.4 as works-with prerequisites
+
* Dani: '''How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit''' - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
−
* We need to find consensus on {{bug|243582}} (embedding source info in binaries)
+
* Dani: '''Windows 8 Support'''
−
* Discussed moving Ubuntu version on the plan from 9.04 to 10.04. It is too early to make this decision because release candidates of 10.04 are not yet available, but we will continue to monitor it and make the decision to move up (or not) later in the 3.6 cycle
+
** Not listed in official plan
 +
** No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
 +
** Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
 +
** Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
 +
** AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
 +
*** Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
 +
* Dani: '''State of GTK 3+'''
 +
** Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
 +
** Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
 +
** Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
 +
** Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
 +
** On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
 +
** Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
 +
* Alex: '''GTK 3 in Mars'''
 +
** Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
 +
** RHEL 5 would no longer work
 +
** Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''February 26, 2014''' - Alex, John, Martin, McQ
 +
* John: '''Orion Release''' this week
 +
 
 +
* Alex: '''Eclipse on ARM64'''
 +
** Launcher and swt at first
 +
** Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
 +
** John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
 +
*** Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
 +
*** At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
 +
** Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
 +
 
 +
* Dani: Update on '''GTK 3+ issue''' - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
 +
** Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
 +
** McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
 +
*** If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
 +
*** Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
 +
*** Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Feb 03, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin
+
'''February 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
−
* Dani: {{Bug|301563}} -  Fast project import from snapshot data
+
* Dani: '''Silenio to work on GTK issue?'''
−
** Has the feature been verified to really return the expected performance gain? - Martin: Yes, Cisco reports 10 minute -> 5 seconds improvement by using the feature on project import on their view (65000 files)
+
* John: '''GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation'''
−
** Is the feature valuable without Index contributions from JDT / CDT? - Martin: Yes, even "plain" projects benefit when there are linked resources pointing to web folders through RSE/EFS since they can be browsed immediately and refresh can be reduced to what's really needed. But most benefit is gained when there is also a shared index to be imported for immediate use.
+
* John: '''e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools'''
−
** Dani proposed checkin into a branch for easier merge / review - Martin: Will start working with patches
+
** Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
−
** AI Martin: Contact Sharon regarding IP review (reserve a slot)
+
** Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
 +
** Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
 +
** John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
 +
** Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
 +
*** If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
 +
** Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 27, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
'''February 5, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* Dani: Markus Keller taking over JDT UI
+
* Dani: '''Confcall Numbers:''' Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
−
* John: M6 Splashscreen for Eclipsecon: {{bug|297355}}
+
* Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
−
* McQ: Removing Builds - SWT needs Linux-Motif, so only WPF about to be removed
+
* Alex: Testing on modern Linux
−
** In discussions with Microsoft, it turned out that WPF is not required to get full Windows 7 experience under Win32
+
−
** XAML for styling was meant to be a cool idea but never got flying
+
−
** Socialize people with this -- find whether people are inerested in contributing on this, if yes then we should support them
+
−
* Still working the IBM approval process for travelling to Eclipsecon
+
−
* Avoid merging major feature work after a milestone's Tuesday test pass
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 20, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
'''January 22, 2014''' - John, Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* McQ: Contacted Steve N, still interested but unlikely to get more energy for investing into Eclipse
+
* John, Alex: '''New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora'''
−
* John: 3.5.2 test pass tomorrow, but yesterday's I-build been a mess
+
** Alex been looking at Browser
−
* McQ: Message about supporting Open JDK in a blog ... status should be "nice that it works but it's not a reference platform"
+
** Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
 +
** Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
 +
*** Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
 +
*** Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
 +
* Dani: '''M5 Status'''
 +
** Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 13, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
'''January 15, 2014''' - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin
−
* McQ: U Manitoba students to help with technical communication (documentation, website, ...) for e4
+
* Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
−
* Dani: New way of contributing Capabilities for Helios... are we OK? - John: yes, Platform Capabilities are in the SDK feature
+
* Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion
−
** FYI: Incubating projects are
+
−
* Martin: Documenting the Platforms we routinely test on
+
−
** Unittest / Perftest machines are know. When John updated the Reference Platform doc, he made sure that he knows at least one committer on each platform
+
−
** A poll to know what Platform(s) are actively used (by committers) on milestone granularity would be very helpful - John going to set that up
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 6, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Jeff
+
'''January 8, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ
−
* Agreed on 3.5.2 [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/freeze_plan_3_5_2.php freeze plan]
+
* Dani: '''API Freeze''' with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception
−
** Note RC2 is a week earlier to avoid colliding with Helios M5 week
+
−
* Discussed Helios plan updates 2 {{bug|298200}}
+
−
** Update Java 7 plan item to indicate only working on publicly available bits. Some progress made on getting access to specs but going slowly.
+
−
** Update reference JRE's to latest version of each JRE
+
−
* Jeff will be away for next six weeks (vacation)
+
−
* McQ to contact Steve to see if he still wishes to remain on PMC
+
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Revision as of 10:45, 20 May 2015

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every wednesday at 10.30am EST.

Meeting Minutes

May 20, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Dani: Security Update - Platform work done, Orbit updated, reached out to Wayne and other affected projects.
  • Dani: RC2 Build - too many bugs assigned, Lars on Vacation, Dani will fill in
  • McQ: Too Many Platforms Built? - Who's really hurt by "too many builds" ?
    • Will meet with Mike & Foundation tomorrow, Alex is also interested (Dani to check).

May 13, 2015 - McQ, John, Alex, Martin

  • John, Dani - Mars Endgame looking good
  • Alex - bug 465874 Lucene 5 looking good, almost done - Ready to commit as soon as CQs are in and Mars+1 is open
  • JDT for Java 9 - will need a wider discussion with EMO on make it easier to publish the work, e.g. in normal builds

May 6, 2015 - McQ, Dani, Martin, John

  • Dani: Java 9 timing - slight delay
  • Dani: RC1 preps
    • 2-day test pass went fine - 2 severe issues found, will be addressed
    • Request to watch PMC mailing list for API exceptions and defect approvals
  • John: PC Discussion on Release Cycles
    • Multiple releases per year PLUS maintenance streams seems like overkill
    • Consider an approach like Orion that just moves constantly forward
    • Especially for the Platform, being rock solid is most important. Still to attract new contributors we need to allow more frequent "feature updates".
      • A model where both "stable/maintenance" _and_ "features" are contributed to the train might be too much work/overhead.
      • Consider a model like Ubuntu, ... with some release numbers being "stable/LTS base" and others being "in-between feature releases" ?
      • Consider a model like LTS for maintenance fixes / aside mainstream just moving forward ?


April 15, 2015 - Dani, John, McQ, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: Java 1.7 Changes
    • Some bundles have been moved to a 1.7 BREE by new committers, even after API freeze
    • Rule has always been "we move up when there's a reason to move up". We won't move up without reason.
      • Dani: Moving the BREE may even cause API changes, so should only be done when incrementing the minor version (5% risk)
      • Alex: Such updates allow staying current and not get to "rewrite is needed" state (thus needed) but has to happen before M6 (API freeze)
    • Alex suggest not accepting additional changes, but not reverting either (to avoid churn)
  • Dani: Batik 1.6 update

April 8, 2015 - Dani, Martin, Alex, John, McQ

  • Dani: Batik - Platform is good, Train may need to update, perhaps updating one bundle only would suffice. John will follow up.
  • Alex: SWT for GTK 3 News
    • GTK port finally decoupled from X11 - it renders on Wayland now, can switch the renderer to a pure HTML one
    • This opens up opportunities (but depends on hosts that have GTK).


April 1, 2015 - McQ, Alex, Martin, Dani (Regrets: John travelling)

  • Alex: GTK 3.16 seeing issues again - fixed some crashes, but scrolling is still entirely broken
    • SWT uses a number of things that GTK declares as "implementation detail"
  • PMC approval on piggyback CQ's (AC question forwarded by John)

March 18, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • John: EclipseCon - Bigger this year due to LocationTech (750 attendees)
    • Mark Reinhold keynote and "after-session" on Java 9
    • Much interest in Orion JS tooling / editor, also on desktop
    • Public face of Eclipse Platform at the conference was much more diverse than in the past (Lars Vogel, Max Anderson, Google ...)
  • Dani: bug 458730 Mars Plan Update
  • Dani: e4 project leadership approved by EMO
  • Dani: Szymon Brandys resigned as Platform/Resources co-lead. Need to +1 on the mailing list

March 11, 2015 - no meeting (EclipseCon)

March 4, 2015 - Dani, McQ, Martin, John

  • Dani: e4 leadership - Dani will volunteer to co-lead
  • Dani: BREEs - documentation about how to pick the EE
    • Recommending the "earliest generally supported JRE that provides the capabilities you need"
    • Would like an URL on the page pointing to the most recent plan (talking to Wayne)
  • John: greatfix contest
    • Dani: Working well - some very small contributions but some also very large (eg Customize Perspective fixes)
  • John: EclipseCon - numbers looking good; join Planning Council Breakfast as delegate for Dani

February 25, 2015 - Dani, Martin McQ

  • No topics

February 18, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Alex: Building Native Launchers
    • Current way of building is kinda unpredictable - even if getting some agreement on versions to use, results are kinda unpredictable
    • Pushing towards Hudson RHEL builders at least at the EF to get more transparency and automation - attempt to mimic the infrastructure at IBM
    • Looking at 3 primary architectures (at the EF) for Linux vs. secondary architectures (non-public builders potentially)
  • Dani: Great initiative, but other (non-EF) builders must not be broken
    • EF doesn't allow any commercial tools (but currently, e.g. Windows launchers are built with MSVS)
  • Alex is willing to spend time to get Linux builds running; but can't help with other architectures
    • Martin: great approach - for Windows, using a cross-compiler on Linux might be interesting (after Linux native works)
  • Alex: This is just phase one - getting rid of the binaries in git repos might be phase 2 (since the checked-in binaries easily cause inconsistencies between Java and Native side)
    • Martin: Checked-in binaries help consumers and contributors who just want to make a Java change
    • Dani: Checked-in binaries are also used for comparing build results for expected vs accidental changes
  • Alex: bug 459399 - Policy for recommended minimum execution environments for bundles
    • Dani: It works today
      • To run Eclipse, Java 8 or Java 9 can be used (minimum BREE has no impact)
      • To modify the source, a new JRE can be used but then the Execution Environment Descriptions need to be installed
    • Policy as discussed in the past: Each project can increase the BREE if there is a real need (such as generifying) and no upstream clients are broken
      • But don't change the BREE without justification -- changing the BREE always has some effect, such as new warnings that would need to be addressed
      • Suggested BREE for new bundles has already been changed by Lars
  • Alex: Even for bundles in "maintenance mode", old BREE causes issues for people who build from source (who have to change compilers etc)
  • No conclusion so far (Alex and Dani disagree)
  • Dani: e4 leadership
    • Mature bits being moved to Eclipse - e4 remaining as an incubator to keep alive for experiments with low entry barrier

February 11, 2015 - Dani, Alex

  • no topics

February 4, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin

January 28, 2015 - Dani, Alex, John

  • Dani: Switch Mac OS X 10.9 with 10.10 in Mars target environments
    • No objections
  • Alex: Looking for any Eclipse related activity @Fosdem

January 21, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • Alex: Process for allowing non-committers extended bugzilla privileges (for bug triage)?
    • Dani: Yes a process exists. Send bugzilla username to Dani.
  • Alex: New resource for helping with SWT
  • Dani: Platform/UI co-lead
  • Dani: Solaris: Java 8 will only support 64 bits on both Intel and SPARC --> IBM SWT Team considering to invest in getting patches in for 64-bit Solaris

January 14, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • Dani: Update on Platform/UI Leadership: Daniel Rolka left IBM and for now has no time to contribute. He stepped down as co-lead and nominated Lars Vogel
  • Dani: Solaris x86 64-bit support - patches exist, but no machine available. No luck to get one from Oracle or via Eclipse Foundation. We will not support Solaris x86 64-bit unless someone makes a machine available

January 7, 2015 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • Dani: Platform/UI Leadership
  • John: Git security issue - pick up a patch for Jgit in the packages before SR2? - Mostly an EPP

December 17, 2014 - McQ, John, Dani

  • Platform UI leadership to be discussed in the next PMC call
  • no call on December 24 and December 31

December 10, 2014 - Alex, McQ, John, Dani, Martin

  • Dani: bug 427768 Mickael (Red Hat) - Nested Project support contribution to Common Navigator to better support Maven projects
  • Dani: Red Hat also will wants to contribute making the Import easier bug 421930. First in the e4 incubator.
    • Just import from a folder, and contribute project configurators via extension point (e.g. detect POM files, Makefiles, ...)
    • McQ: Many complexities ... different users may want very different things to happen
      • McQ: Just point to a Git repo -- the Git repo has a little metadata file at the root which allows launching the apps that the repo had been intended for ... maybe just make the project tree(s) a little more self-describing
      • Is there a growing list of repos which already have that? - John: In the Java world, pom.xml is getting that ...
      • Alex: .doap getting this (at least for Apache and GNOME projects - specifies at least the languages used)
  • Web IDEs : McQ and others gone through a lot of analysis of Web IDE's
    • Cloud9 has a much larger set of starting points ; in terms of the underlying core structure, Orion (and also Jay) are more interesting
    • Orion has an extremely lightweight plug-in model: pieces coming from all over the world may look like all running on the server - nice infrastructure for building Community around it
    • Orion + Flux could be a rival for anything out there
    • Orion continues to push on the Core Coding experience - Orion Editor is on par or better than most desktop editors
  • Vision: See Minutes on the platform-vision mailing list ... Delivery will depend on people actually participating

December 3, 2014 - Alex, Martin, Dani, John (McQ travelling)

  • John: Platform Vision - How to turn that into actionable items, Wayne wants to present to the Board
  • John: Performance tests running again since a couple weeks, now the graphs are also back again :)

November 26, 2014 - Alex, Dani

  • No relevant topics / decisions

November 19, 2014 - Alex, Martin, Dani (McQ and John had issues dialing in)

  • Dani: Jetty 9 - Upgrade has been done, but new versions coming out ... will probably update from Jetty 9.2.3 to Jetty 9.2.5. Probably 9.3
    • WTP interested in newer Jetty version ... need to agree on a common version across the Release Train.
    • Alex: New Jetty JSP compiler failing ... filed a bug, will want this fixed (Jetty working on it)
  • Dani: bug 179924 Request for ssh-agent - patch against Team from YMNK (JSch Committer)
    • egit would contribute the agent, but would make more sense putting it in Platform (+1 from Martin, no objection from Alex)
  • Equinox Declarative Services implementation - ProSyst stopped providing fixes, not responsive any more
    • New specificiation (R6) from OSGi adding lot of features, cannot risk staying behind
    • Suggestion to remove the ProSyst stuff and replace it with the Apache Felix implementation (used by IBM / WebSphere and others)
    • Martin: How mature / stable is the Felix code ? Can we influence it ?
      • Dani: Very mature. Have more influence on Felix than on the Prosyst stuff ... through the IBM committers and others.
      • Alex agrees. Using some parts of Felix already.
  • John (via Dani): Move e4 into Platform/UI - would like to start the review process next week.

November 5, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Eclipse Foundation greatbugs initiative - call into PMC
  • Dani: EclipseCon Europe Report - met lot of people, best attended EclipseCon Europe ever :)
    • IOT; IDE in the Web; are people moving away from Eclipse before the transition to Web can be completed ?
  • Alex: Discussion with Christian Campo on scaling up
    • Should better go into SWT ... but SWT has a reputation that it's hard getting a change in -- people prefer re-doing things their own than contributing :(
    • Alex thinks this problem doesn't exist any more ... but how to fight this misconception ?
    • John: Getting a change in may now be hard due to other reasons, eg lack of experienced committers
    • Alex: Consider voting in new committers more easily if somebody is interested ?
  • Alex: Difference between Eclipse and the Linux Foundation
    • Linux Foundation doesn't provide anything that anybody can use directly (just a source tarball) --> all users become "contributors" of some sort
    • This leads to different expectations and has a number advantages (eg issues are reported to and worked on by member companies only)

October 22, 2014 - Alex, Dani, McQ, John

  • Platform plan update nearly done, will be released soon
  • Orion release review is ongoing, release will be next week
  • Brief discussion of new bug reporting tool and related bug dashboard
  • PMC called canceled next week due to EclipseCon Europe

October 1, 2014 - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ

  • Dani - In touch with Oracle regarding Solaris x86
  • McQ - Platform UI tension between making Platform UI as stable as possible, versus new features
    • Community forming for new contributions - that's great! - But takes committer's time; committers reduced to "productize and fix" is problematic
    • how to get more contributions for bug fixes ?
      • Alex: What about saying "This release we only accept bug fixes" ? Or for some milestone, eg after M4 only accept bug fixes ?
      • Dani: Sounds great, but will the Community accept that ? - JDT BugBash did not work that well...
      • Dani to prepare a draft message
  • Dani was in Bangalore - talked to Arun - good collaboration with Alex
    • Hard to get new SWT developers (Sami moving away on RH side)
    • Ideas to keep SWT relevant ... eg generate Browser based things
      • GTK3 supports running in a browser now... (just one label for now, but an interesting approach)

September 24, 2014 - Alex, Dani, McQ, John, Martin

  • John: SWT Binaries Repository has got too big
    • Will prune old versions out of the git repository (which is only used internally) - "Release" drops will still be available from release builds.
    • DECISION: OK to prune.
  • SWT master still has sources for old Platforms like carbon and motif - cluttering up the source code
    • DECISION: OK to remove references - source would remain in git for old branches, but not be visible in master any more.
  • Dani: p2 and Equinox - no sign-off for M2, leaders stepping down ?
    • consider moving p2 back into Equinox, and probably Equinox back into the Eclipse project ?
    • John: Equinox committers not really knowledgeable about p2 ... still, with less than 3 active committers a threshold is reached (can't hold elections any more)
    • Still there's a couple of people contributing, so there are knowledgeable folk around
    • Dani: If there's committers committing code, they should also be responsible for sign-off
  • Dani: Java 7 and Jetty 9
    • Been using Jetty 8 for a while, now, there is Community Pressure upgrading to Jetty 9 but that requires Java 7
    • Java 6 no longer getting public updates since February 2013
    • John:Adoptions needed in the Help System when moving to Jetty 9 ?
      • Alex don't think so - been shipping Jetty 9 for over a year already; only required changing some dependencies.
      • ACTION ITEM: Alex offered to check this
  • Alex: Drop all the Java 6 Platforms from the list of Reference Platforms?
    • DECISION: Yes this needs to be done. Trying to support Java 6 won't buy any benefit at this point.

September 17, 2014 - no meeting

September 10, 2014 - John, Martin, Alex, Dani

  • John: Mars having some build hickups due to removing Mac 32-bit builds
  • John: Luna SR1 - almost done, respinning for 2 bugs in Equinox
  • John: Cloud TLP (for Orion and others) - still on track for announcing end October
  • Alex: Been busy with other stuff recently, back on the GTK version support discussion this week
    • Martin: Many people will know what distro they have (or need), but not what GTK they have on there
      • John: Also running GTK on AIX, Solaris, Linux Power and other which are not moving up that fast...
      • Martin: Examples: RHEL 5.8 was GTK 2.10.4-21 ; RHEL 4.5 was at GTK 2.4.13-22
      • Popular distros would be Ubuntu LTS, RHEL, OpenSUSE
    • Alex: Newer distros have up to 3 GTK versions installed, along with some means to switch between them, it's very confusing
    • Eclipse is the only project that dynamically loads DLL's and tries to support a broad range ... others typically compile against a specific version
      • Most projects require GTK 2.24
    • John: GTK versions are not really predictable ... between 3.04 and 3.10 there was a breaking change
    • Alex: In every release there are small issues that we work around; and there's certain releases that are breaking stuff
    • NEXT ACTION: Send E-Mail

September 3, 2014 - John, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: away next week and on/off the next two weeks due to travel
  • Dani: RC4 next week. PMC please watch the PMC mailing list
    • John: will be available and monitor the mailing list
  • Dani: Oracle interested in providing access to a Solaris 64-bit machine bug 442266
  • John: How/where to graduate the e4 tools
    • the community wants to graduate this out of incubation
    • initially proposed to create a separate project, but feels like adding too much overhead
    • John: proposed PDE as home, then Dani suggested to use Platform UI
    • Alex, Dani and John agree to suggest Platform UI as home for the e4 tools.
    • John to send a note to Lars
  • Alex: Limit supported number of GTK+ versions
    • SWT currently has to support over 20 different version. This doesn't scale.
    • Proposal: Bump min supported version with one minor release each release. Aka Luna has Gtk 2.10 as min, Mars would have 2.12 as min. Can consider even two minor releases (Mars requires 2.14) as this would keep the amount of supported versions the same as GTK releases one minor release every 6 months.
    • Dani, John: this is too limiting. We tended to support the most possible. Newest versions might have too many bugs.
    • All agree: we'd like to limit the amount of supported versions
    • Alex to cast a poll via Eclipse Foundation, which versions are used by users and companies

August 27, 2014 - cancelled

August 20, 2014 - John, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: new platform PowerPC 64-bit LE bug 441358
    • maintained by IBM
    • will be added to 4.4.1 as early access
    • Dani to send a note to cross-platform
  • Dani: individual made patches to support Solaris 64-bit bug 442266
    • we'd like to add it but don't have a machine to support it
    • important because our current 32-bit Solaris build will become obselete since there's no 32-bit JRE for Java 7 and beyond
    • Oracle should be interested since they provide both, Java and Solaris
    • Dani to ask Oracle

August 13, 2014 - McQ, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Any feedback for the Mars plan?
    • McQ:
      • It does not cover Orion, but that is OK and like in previous release plans. Orion will most likely be moved to another top-level project soon.
      • We want to remove Mac OS X Universal 32-bit (all agreed)
  • Dani: How to deal with requests to push our bundles to repo.eclipse.org bug 441530
    • Dani: OK for me but we won't do the work
    • Alex: Maven needs the dependencies in the pom.xml. We don't want copy them from the manifest into the pom.xml and then maintain this. The pom should be updated when publishing the file into the Maven repo. Ideally by an automated task.
    • Conclusion: all agree with this, i.e. we won't do the actual work and we won't "pollute" our pom files.

August 6, 2014 - McQ, Dani

  • Dani: Will provide initial Mars plan next week


No meetings in July


Jun 4, 2014 - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: RC4 Status looking good
    • 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
    • Rest of the team working on docs
    • Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
  • John: Went over the N&N ... number of things went in after M7 :)
    • Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way


Jun 11, 2014 - Martin, McQ, Alex, John

  • John: Eclipse Theming: When switching the OS Theme to dark, Eclipse should be aware
    • Dark Theme is currently a tech preview


Jun 4, 2014 - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: RC4 Status looking good
    • 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
    • Rest of the team working on docs
    • Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
  • John: Went over the N&N ... number of things went in after M7 :)
    • Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way


May 28, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: EOL'ing the Delta Pack - announce now, remove during Mars - it's been obsoleted by p2 functionality
    • Alex: Some of the test suite relied on the delta pack, it caused issues, OK with removing (PDE tests would need to be cleaned up)
  • Dani: Copyright Updates - tool is very slow since not ported from CVS properly, can run for hours
    • John: Worth doing periodically but probably won't matter legally since copyright lasts for 7 years
    • The change is not without risk (Dani: Could schedule after the release)
    • McQ: Should consider updating the tool as part of that work
    • Alex: Has a new intern, could use this as an opportunity to join
  • Dani: RC3 status - last planned build - looking good, except for Platform UI, where the list of bugs is still long
  • McQ: Discussions about a new Eclipse.org Web-based Toplevel Project


May 14, 2014 - Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Alex: SWT GTK3 and the Endgame Rules
  • Dani: Luna Plan Update
  • John: New Dashboard created by the EMO

May 7, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Martin bug 241957 - GTK clipboard hang
    • Alex: GTK guys recommended using the async API, but no time for more investigation
    • McQ: Switching a sync API to async implementation underneath can be extremely messy (need to be aware of all possible events and event sources...)
    • McQ: If there is an idea canceling the clipboard wait ... given that the issue occurs only rarely, even a hacky solution is better than nothing
  • Dani: will do a plan update, hopefully this week

April 30, 2014 - Dani, Martin, McQ

  • McQ: WB4 perspective customization - has it caused any issues ?
    • Martin: Dealing with detached views works differently (dragging a window fails - must drag the tab inside the window)
    • Dani: Saved perspectives / windows are lost on an existing workspace when moving from 3.x to 4.x
      • Martin/McQ: When crossing the major version boundary, it is OK to lose state - it's not nice but acceptable
    • Dani: The bigger problem is, that the whole "Perspective customization" dialog is still not working as expected
      • Martin: Agree with the concern, but the Perspective customization dialog wasn't ever great
      • McQ: If invest work here, rather make it good than bring back the previous status quo
      • Martin: Most customization done via plugin.xml / Java , don't expect end users to do a lot of customization themselves
  • Dani: M7 status
    • Defect triage under control - some items deferred to 4.5


April 23, 2014 - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin

  • Alex - GTK2 or GTK3 as default - GTK3 it is
    • GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to
      • xulrunner - latest version not supported by swt and latest distros don't even ship standalone xulrunner
      • webkitgtk - gtk2 version in maintenance mode, upstream consider dropping, really crashy See [1]
    • GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
    • McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
  • Dani - Freeze Plan created
  • John - Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret

April 16, 2014 - Dani, Alex

  • no topics today

April 9, 2014 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani - Kepler SR2 and Java 8
    • Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
    • Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
    • Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
    • Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
  • John - Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions
    • Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
    • Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
    • Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
    • Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches

April 2, 2014 - Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Dani - new GTK3+ issues
    • crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX (bug 431330)
    • problems with main menu (bug 419830)
  • Dani - Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work
    • Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
  • Dani - need to approve API changes for Java 8 in M7
    • No API changes, only additions
    • Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
    • ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
    • There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
  • John - SWT over JavaFX
    • EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
    • Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
    • Relationship to Tom Schindl's e(fx)clipse project ?
      • e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
      • Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
      • Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in bug 426243
      • Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
        • It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
        • John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
      • Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX


March 26, 2014 - John, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • John - EclipseCon Update
    • Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
    • IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
    • Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
    • Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
    • See also Blog Posts from Doug Schaefer and Ian Bull as well as top 5 from Ian
  • John - ARM port of GTK - any tracking items ?
    • Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
    • IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
    • Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
    • Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
      • Example: bug 430698, bug 429237, bug 415757; bug 419855 talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
      • Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
      • Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
        • Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
        • Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
  • Alex - Java 8 vs Java 7 currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
    • In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
    • ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is bug 390889 and we'll try to fix it for M7.

March 19, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • McQ - Congrats on Java 8 Release to coincide with the Oracle release
  • Dani - Windows 8 Support - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
    • McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
    • Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
    • Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation

March 12, 2014 - Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • GTK - SWT team discussions
  • John - preparing for Java 8 release

March 5, 2014 - John, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
  • Dani: Windows 8 Support
    • Not listed in official plan
    • No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
    • Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
    • Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
    • AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
      • Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
  • Dani: State of GTK 3+
    • Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
    • Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
    • Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
    • Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
    • On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
    • Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
  • Alex: GTK 3 in Mars
    • Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
    • RHEL 5 would no longer work
    • Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI

February 26, 2014 - Alex, John, Martin, McQ

  • John: Orion Release this week
  • Alex: Eclipse on ARM64
    • Launcher and swt at first
    • Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
    • John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
      • Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
      • At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
    • Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
  • Dani: Update on GTK 3+ issue - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
    • Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
    • McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
      • If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
      • Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
      • Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it


February 19, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin, John

  • Dani: Silenio to work on GTK issue?
  • John: GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation
  • John: e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools
    • Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
    • Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
    • Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
    • John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
    • Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
      • If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
    • Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE

February 5, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Confcall Numbers: Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
  • Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
  • Alex: Testing on modern Linux

January 22, 2014 - John, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • John, Alex: New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora
    • Alex been looking at Browser
    • Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
    • Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
      • Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
      • Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
  • Dani: M5 Status
    • Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier

January 15, 2014 - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin

  • Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
  • Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion

January 8, 2014 - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ

  • Dani: API Freeze with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception

Archive

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