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= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
  
−
'''Oct 6, 2010:''' - Dani, John, Jeff
+
'''December 17, 2014''' - McQ, John, Dani
−
* Feature ranges
+
* Platform UI leadership to be discussed in the next PMC call
−
** Some projects using a buckminster capability to convert feature includes to wider ranges
+
* no call on December 24 and December 31
−
** No longer able to install SR0 once SR1 is available
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''December 10, 2014''' - Alex, McQ, John, Dani, Martin
 +
* Dani: {{bug|427768}} Mickael (Red Hat) - Nested Project support contribution to Common Navigator to better support Maven projects
 +
* Dani: Red Hat also will wants to contribute making the Import easier {{bug|421930}}. First in the e4 incubator.
 +
** Just import from a folder, and contribute project configurators via extension point (e.g. detect POM files, Makefiles, ...)
 +
** McQ: Many complexities ... different users may want very different things to happen
 +
*** McQ: Just point to a Git repo -- the Git repo has a little metadata file at the root which allows launching the apps that the repo had been intended for ... maybe just make the project tree(s) a little more self-describing
 +
*** Is there a growing list of repos which already have that? - John: In the Java world, pom.xml is getting that ...
 +
*** Alex: .doap getting this (at least for Apache and GNOME projects - specifies at least the languages used)
 +
* Web IDEs : McQ and others gone through a lot of analysis of Web IDE's
 +
** Cloud9 has a much larger set of starting points ; in terms of the underlying core structure, Orion (and also Jay) are more interesting
 +
** Orion has an extremely lightweight plug-in model: pieces coming from all over the world may look like all running on the server - nice infrastructure for building Community around it
 +
** Orion + Flux could be a rival for anything out there
 +
** Orion continues to push on the Core Coding experience - Orion Editor is on par or better than most desktop editors
 +
* Vision: See [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-vision/msg00065.html Minutes on the platform-vision mailing list] ... Delivery will depend on people actually participating
  
−
'''Sep 29, 2010:''' - Dani, John, Martin, Jeff
+
<hr/>
−
* John: UNIX groups - ongoing, now with Webmaster
+
'''December 3, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, Dani, John (McQ travelling)
−
* John: Parts of e4 project now moving to git - may pave the way for more git on Eclipse later on
+
* John: [https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/platform-vision/ Platform Vision] - How to turn that into actionable items, Wayne wants to present to the Board
−
** PDE Build Fetch factory for git currently exists as a patch on a bug, should live in egit - {{bug|289838}}
+
* John: '''Performance tests''' running again since a couple weeks, now the graphs are also back again :)
−
* Jeff: Download page - Cluttered and hard to navigate - {{bug|326444}} for Equinox: too many columns, too much text
+
** See http://download.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/drops4/I20141202-0800/performance.php
−
** Make it easier to find "the latest"; update the look to be more consistent with main web pages
+
** Results are there but fingerprints currently missing
−
** Most people just get the SDK, or the SWT downloads
+
** Baseline is 4.4.0 at the moment (consider comparing against 3.x at some point)
−
** '''AI''' File bug for discussion
+
** John: From experience, a single result isn't helpful, there's often weird anomalies from build to build ... need to look at trends over multiple builds, thus the graphs are really useful
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Sep 22, 2010:''' - Dani, Jeff, Martin, John
+
'''November 26, 2014''' - Alex, Dani
−
* John: 3.7 -> 4.1 EPP upgrade - idea is to just upgrade the Platform (not a long-term, but interim idea)
+
* No relevant topics / decisions
−
** Goal is increasing the usage of 4.1, without further producing full EPP's
+
−
* Dani: How to move forward with UNIX group restructuring
+
−
** Wait for the build.e.o problems to get resolved, then John to follow up with Denis (via the discussion bug), once there is a concrete suggestion of what is desired in terms of ACL's
+
−
* John: M2a rebuild - anything we can do to reduce the chance of getting such bugs in the future?
+
−
** No-Reference analysis warnings were turned off in the past since there were too many false positives
+
−
** Dani - Bytecode are independent of warnings, there's really 2 issues:
+
−
*** (a) compiler only changed every 6 weeks, earlier compiler adoption would have found this earlier
+
−
*** (b) bytecode comparison after builds ?
+
−
*** John: using the new p2 every week turned out to be too volatile (but compiler may be more stable)
+
−
**** Goal of updating basebuilder more often would be adding "compile Eclipse" as a big testcase for the compiler
+
−
** '''AI John''' to discuss with Kim
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Sep 15, 2010:''' - Dani, Jeff, McQ, John
+
'''November 19, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, Dani  (''McQ and John had issues dialing in'')
−
* Moving up to ICU4J 4.6 which requires Java 5
+
* Dani: '''Jetty 9''' - Upgrade has been done, but new versions coming out ... will probably update from Jetty 9.2.3 to Jetty 9.2.5. Probably 9.3
−
** We are stuck on old version of ICU4J unless we can move to Java 5
+
** WTP interested in newer Jetty version ... need to agree on a common version across the Release Train.
−
** We previously agreed moving to Java 5 is ok - no complaints here
+
** Alex: New Jetty JSP compiler failing ... filed a bug, will want this fixed (Jetty working on it)
−
** Need to document the steps for someone running RCP on Foundation 1.1 - have to switch to older version of ICU4J
+
* Dani: '''{{bug|179924}} Request for ssh-agent''' - patch against Team from YMNK (JSch Committer)
−
** This will enable us to consume future ICU4J versions that may be able to split large timezone data into a separately consumable piece.
+
** egit would contribute the agent, but would make more sense putting it in Platform (+1 from Martin, no objection from Alex)
−
* Unix groups
+
* Equinox Declarative Services implementation - ProSyst stopped providing fixes, not responsive any more
−
** Preference is to avoid multiple votes
+
** New specificiation (R6) from OSGi adding lot of features, cannot risk staying behind
−
** Try to use ACLs to enable multiple groups for some directories
+
** Suggestion to remove the ProSyst stuff and replace it with the Apache Felix implementation (used by IBM / WebSphere and others)
−
** If this is too complex, then have two groups but not expose two votes. I.e., when a committer is approved, we need to tell webmasters to add "common" along with whatever component they are being added to.
+
** Martin: How mature / stable is the Felix code ? Can we influence it ?
−
* Release train and 3.7/4.1 split
+
*** Dani: Very mature. Have more influence on Felix than on the Prosyst stuff ... through the IBM committers and others.
−
** Planning council working out how to handle 3.7/4.1 split
+
*** Alex agrees. Using some parts of Felix already.
−
** Some argued that having 4.1 EPP packages would greatly improve adoption
+
* John (via Dani): '''Move e4 into Platform/UI''' - would like to start the review process next week.
−
** Being able to "one click" upgrade from 3.7->4.1 EPP not too bad and greatly reduces dis/mirror footprint (for example a link in welcome page)
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''November 5, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* Eclipse Foundation greatbugs initiative - call into PMC
 +
* Dani: EclipseCon Europe Report - met lot of people, best attended EclipseCon Europe ever :)
 +
** IOT; IDE in the Web; are people moving away from Eclipse before the transition to Web can be completed ?
 +
* Alex: Discussion with Christian Campo on scaling up
 +
** Should better go into SWT ... but SWT has a reputation that it's hard getting a change in -- people prefer re-doing things their own than contributing :(
 +
** Alex thinks this problem doesn't exist any more ... but how to fight this misconception ?
 +
** John: Getting a change in may now be hard due to other reasons, eg lack of experienced committers
 +
** Alex: Consider voting in new committers more easily if somebody is interested ?
 +
* Alex: Difference between Eclipse and the Linux Foundation
 +
** Linux Foundation doesn't provide anything that anybody can use directly (just a source tarball) --&gt; all users become "contributors" of some sort
 +
** This leads to different expectations and has a number advantages (eg issues are reported to and worked on by member companies only)
  
−
'''Sep 8, 2010:''' - John, Jeff, McQ
+
'''October 22, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, John
−
* Discussed reception of 4.0 release.
+
* Platform plan update nearly done, will be released soon
−
** We probably overdid the caution and it appears to be getting very little use
+
* Orion release review is ongoing, release will be next week
−
** Will encourage Eclipse project developers to use 4.1 builds to help find and iron out bugs
+
* Brief discussion of new bug reporting tool and related bug [https://dev.eclipse.org/recommenders/committers/dashboard/#/dashboard/temp/e6leTB3gQy-zUZI-73KtRQ dashboard]
−
* Discussed [[Eclipse/PMC/Unix Groups]] again
+
* PMC called '''canceled''' next week due to EclipseCon Europe
−
** Need to resolve with webmasters how to handle "common" things. Entered {{bug|324772}} to iron out details with web master
+
−
* John asked for input on draft Indigo plan
+
−
* Discussed how to better handle ECF contributions
+
−
** Either ECF needs to be done earlier, or we have to live with our dates slipping
+
−
** Need to work together to see if we can improve contribution process
+
−
** We need to at least make sure they are in the loop on our build and end-game schedules
+
−
* Jeff mentioned target platform management in PDE has a few holes. Will have a follow-up call to dive into details with PDE committers.
+
  
 +
'''October 1, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ
 +
* Dani - In touch with Oracle regarding Solaris x86
 +
* McQ - '''Platform UI''' tension between making Platform UI as stable as possible, versus new features
 +
** Community forming for new contributions - that's great! - But takes committer's time; committers reduced to "productize and fix" is problematic
 +
** how to get more contributions for bug fixes ?
 +
*** Alex: What about saying "This release we only accept bug fixes" ? Or for some milestone, eg after M4 only accept bug fixes ?
 +
*** Dani: Sounds great, but will the Community accept that ? - JDT BugBash did not work that well...
 +
*** Dani to prepare a draft message
 +
* Dani was in Bangalore - talked to Arun - good collaboration with Alex
 +
** Hard to get new SWT developers (Sami moving away on RH side)
 +
** Ideas to keep SWT relevant ... eg generate Browser based things
 +
*** GTK3 supports running in a browser now... (just one label for now, but an interesting approach)
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
 
+
'''September 24, 2014''' - Alex, Dani, McQ, John, Martin
−
'''Sep 1, 2010:''' - John, Jeff, Dani
+
* John: '''SWT Binaries Repository''' has got too big
−
* Discussed [[Eclipse/PMC/Unix Groups]]
+
** Will prune old versions out of the git repository (which is only used internally) - "Release" drops will still be available from release builds.
−
** Agreed with general direction about greatly reducing number of groups
+
** '''DECISION:''' OK to prune.
−
** Dani proposed some changes to text and search components, which have since been incorporated into the doc
+
* '''SWT master still has sources for old Platforms''' like carbon and motif - cluttering up the source code
 +
** '''DECISION:''' OK to remove references - source would remain in git for old branches, but not be visible in master any more.
 +
* Dani: '''p2 and Equinox''' - no sign-off for M2, leaders stepping down ?
 +
** consider moving p2 back into Equinox, and probably Equinox back into the Eclipse project ?
 +
** John: Equinox committers not really knowledgeable about p2 ... still, with less than 3 active committers a threshold is reached (can't hold elections any more)
 +
** Still there's a couple of people contributing, so there are knowledgeable folk around
 +
** Dani: If there's committers committing code, they should also be responsible for sign-off
 +
* Dani: '''Java 7 and Jetty 9'''
 +
** Been using Jetty 8 for a while, now, there is Community Pressure upgrading to Jetty 9 but that requires Java 7
 +
** Java 6 no longer getting public updates since February 2013
 +
** John:Adoptions needed in the Help System when moving to Jetty 9 ?
 +
*** Alex don't think so - been shipping Jetty 9 for over a year already; only required changing some dependencies.
 +
*** '''ACTION ITEM: Alex offered to check this'''
 +
* Alex: '''Drop all the Java 6 Platforms from the list of Reference Platforms?'''
 +
** '''DECISION:''' Yes this needs to be done. Trying to support Java 6 won't buy any benefit at this point.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
 
+
'''September 17, 2014''' - no meeting
−
'''Aug 25, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin
+
−
* Dani - 3.6.1 looks ok - no other topics
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Aug 18, 2010:''' - Dani, John, Martin
+
'''September 10, 2014''' - John, Martin, Alex, Dani
−
* John - '''Eclipse 3.x and 4.0''' and the Release Train
+
* John: Mars having some build hickups due to removing Mac 32-bit builds
−
** Early feedback from 4.0 adopters is that most stuff actually works when dropping in binaries (talking binary compatibility, not source compatibility)
+
* John: Luna SR1 - almost done, respinning for 2 bugs in Equinox
−
** Martin is concerned that dropping binaries built against 3.x into 4.0 will fail late at runtime only, due to use of internals
+
* John: Cloud TLP (for Orion and others) - still on track for announcing end October
−
** John suggests API usage scan to understand issues early
+
* Alex: Been busy with other stuff recently, back on the GTK version support discussion this week
−
** Martin is more interested in source compatibility (build against 4.0) - can this be made super simple?
+
** Martin: Many people will know what distro they have (or need), but not what GTK they have on there
 +
*** John: Also running GTK on AIX, Solaris, Linux Power and other which are not moving up that fast...
 +
*** Martin: Examples: RHEL 5.8 was GTK 2.10.4-21 ; RHEL 4.5 was at GTK 2.4.13-22
 +
*** Popular distros would be Ubuntu LTS, RHEL, OpenSUSE
 +
** Alex: Newer distros have up to 3 GTK versions installed, along with some means to switch between them, it's very confusing
 +
** Eclipse is the only project that dynamically loads DLL's and tries to support a broad range ... others typically compile against a specific version
 +
*** Most projects require GTK 2.24
 +
** John: GTK versions are not really predictable ... between 3.04 and 3.10 there was a breaking change
 +
** Alex: In every release there are small issues that we work around; and there's certain releases that are breaking stuff
 +
** '''NEXT ACTION: Send E-Mail'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Aug 11, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani
+
'''September 3, 2014''' - John, Alex, Dani
−
* McQ - '''3.7 Planning Process''' - input requested from all committers about plan items
+
* Dani: away next week and on/off the next two weeks due to travel
−
* '''Eclipse 4.0 Feedback''' - not too much seen, neither good nor bad
+
* Dani: RC4 next week. PMC please watch the PMC mailing list
 +
** John: will be available and monitor the mailing list
 +
* Dani: Oracle interested in providing access to a Solaris 64-bit machine {{bug|442266}}
 +
* John: How/where to graduate the e4 tools
 +
** the community wants to graduate this out of incubation
 +
** initially proposed to create a separate project, but feels like adding too much overhead
 +
** John: proposed PDE as home, then Dani suggested to use Platform UI
 +
** Alex, Dani and John agree to suggest Platform UI as home for the e4 tools.
 +
** John to send a note to Lars
 +
* Alex: Limit supported number of GTK+ versions
 +
** SWT currently has to support over 20 different version. This doesn't scale.
 +
** Proposal: Bump min supported version with one minor release each release. Aka Luna has Gtk 2.10 as min, Mars would have 2.12 as min. Can consider even two minor releases (Mars requires 2.14) as this would keep the amount of supported versions the same as GTK releases one minor release every 6 months.
 +
** Dani, John: this is too limiting. We tended to support the most possible. Newest versions might have too many bugs.
 +
** All agree: we'd like to limit the amount of supported versions
 +
** Alex to cast a poll via Eclipse Foundation, which versions are used by users and companies
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Aug 4, 2010:''' - meeting cancelled
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''August 27, 2014''' - cancelled
−
'''Jul 28, 2010:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani, Jeff
+
−
* Discussed process for handling security patches
+
−
** If patches had metadata that would allow them to be flagged as security or "critical" patches, then p2 could automatically apply them on startup
+
−
** Deluxe solution would use out of process installer to be able to repair corrupt install that can't even start
+
−
** Simple solution is to put patches in the eclipse/updates/3.6 repository and users need to apply them manually
+
−
* McQ gave a summary of the state of the Eclipse SDK 4.0 release (see his later [http://dev.eclipse.org/blogs/mcqjustmcq/2010/07/28/growing-the-future/ blog post]).
+
−
* Discussed possibility of facet work moving to e4
+
−
** Need to be clear on what would be required to migrate it to the platform
+
−
** Have separate call with Konstantin to discuss
+
−
* Discussed state of builds moving to Foundation infrastructure
+
−
** Could explore migrating build to different build technology such as Buckminster or Tycho if it provides any benefit
+
−
** Concern about the build/test machines becoming a bottleneck as more projects move to it
+
−
** Still need to run performance tests on IBM hardware for now because virtualized machine is not consistent enough
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 21, 2010:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani
 
−
* McQ - '''State of Eclipse 4.0'''
 
−
** Not where we'd like us to be, but converging fast and there seem no issues blocking shipping
 
−
** Not slowing down people any more, and get some new capabilities (view tear-off etc)
 
−
** Should we have 3.7 and 4.1 release trains? allow projects to choose? - Discussions ongoing with PC, Foundation (enough resources to support this?)
 
−
* John - '''Eclipse 4.0 Release Review'''
 
−
** Need to go public now to have 1-week review period
 
−
* Dani - need to start publishing the '''3.6.1 freeze plan'''
 
−
* Dani - '''separate groups for resources and runtime'''
 
−
** Too small micro-components make operation harder
 
−
** McQ 0, Martin 0, Dani +1, John +1 (but strive for more simplicity on other areas)
 
−
* Vacations - McQ 2 weeks off starting Aug 16
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''August 20, 2014''' - John, Alex, Dani
−
'''Jul 14, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani
+
* Dani: new platform PowerPC 64-bit LE {{bug|441358 }}
−
* Dani - '''Problem launching Oracle/Sun jre6u21 on Windows'''
+
** maintained by IBM
−
** {{bug|319514}} Quickly runs out of Permgen space, because the vendor name has changed and so the -XXPermGen flag is not appended
+
** will be added to 4.4.1 as early access
−
** Put in a quick workaround for 3.6.1, patch ahead of time (some people wanted a 3.6a but we don't think that's worth the ripple)
+
** Dani to send a note to cross-platform
−
** Most commercial products ship a VM, so likely not as bad as thought
+
* Dani: individual made patches to support Solaris 64-bit {{bug|442266}}
−
*** Very natural that failure can happen when we don't control the VMs and the VM has custom arguments
+
** we'd like to add it but don't have a machine to support it
−
** Only a windows issue for now (Linux parses version and looks for "hotspot")
+
** important because our current 32-bit Solaris build will become obselete since there's no 32-bit JRE for Java 7 and beyond
−
** Martin: Placing a .hotspotrc file somewhere is another possible workaround
+
** Oracle should be interested since they provide both, Java and Solaris
−
** Dani and Martin propose updating the FAQ, adding a Readme section, circulating the information about workarounds should be sufficient.
+
** Dani to ask Oracle
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 7, 2010:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, John, Dani
 
−
* McQ - '''Graduating e4 without changing the name'''
 
−
** Jeff - a little effort upfront on messaging may pay off really big in the longer run ... picking up 4.0 without proper messaging may end up in lot negative press
 
−
** eg messages about the state of Performance, BIDI, ... cf Eclipse 4.0 "Early Adopter Release"
 
−
* Dani - '''BREE to 1.5 for JDT-UI''', what is the process?
 
−
** '''approved''', all in favor, eat our own dogfood, 1.6 does not provide much benefit
 
−
* Dani - '''Checkin Policies for 3.6.1 Maintenance Stream'''
 
−
** We should have more control over what goes into M-builds .. what's the least intrusive way doing so?
 
−
** McQ suggests M7-ish policies + endgame . Dani suggests mandatory 1-committer code review. Martin requires fix verification.
 
−
** Bring up the topic on Arch call, since committers are affected .. the goal is keeping quality high and having change control.
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''August 13, 2014''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
−
'''Jun 30, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, John
+
* Dani: Any feedback for the [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_5.xml Mars plan]?
−
* No negative response yet about switching to Java 6 reference platforms
+
** McQ:
−
** Components free to move up but not a free-for-all. Justify reasons for moving up on eclipse-pmc mailing list.
+
*** It does not cover Orion, but that is OK and like in previous release plans. Orion will most likely be moved to another top-level project soon.
−
** In many cases there is little added benefit of Java 6 so Java 5 is more likely as a bundle execution environment
+
*** We want to remove Mac OS X Universal 32-bit (all agreed)
−
* 4.0 release and bundle/package naming
+
* Dani: How to deal with requests to push our bundles to repo.eclipse.org {{bug|441530}}
−
** Agreed that we will not migrate bundle/package namespaces at this time
+
** Dani: OK for me but we won't do the work
−
** e4 API is not ready so the separation is helpful to divide it from the mature API
+
** Alex: Maven needs the dependencies in the pom.xml. We don't want copy them from the manifest into the pom.xml and then maintain this. The pom should be updated when publishing the file into the Maven repo. Ideally by an automated task.
−
** It is not simply a package name issue, there are also class names containing "e4". Need to work through the process of merging the new API with the old, but this will take time
+
** Conclusion: all agree with this, i.e. we won't do the actual work and we won't "pollute" our pom files.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 23, 2010:''' - Jeff, John
+
'''August 6, 2014''' - McQ, Dani
−
* No topics
+
* Dani: Will provide initial Mars plan next week
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''Jun 16, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Jeff
 
−
* McQ - '''Java 4 going away''' (was EOL since October 2008, Java 5 EOL since October 2009)
 
−
** Dani: Don't bump up any BREBump up to 1.5 only if needed
 
−
** Jeff: If moving off 1.4, why not move up to 1.6 ?
 
−
*** Reality is that we want the tiny Foundatation-1.1 or the big wad, and 1.5 is no better than 1.6
 
−
*** Equinox may start using Generics and down-compile to 1.4 ... think about what's in ercp
 
−
** Start a cross-project discussion... question is whether everyone who depends on Platform has 1.6 VM Support
 
−
** Martin has no problem with 1.6, suggest asking on cross-project / some of the bigger players (e.g. Jetty, Modeling, ...)
 
−
*** McQ to ask Boris bring up with the Board
 
−
* Martin, Jeff, Dani vacation next 2 weeks (likely not on the call).
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 9, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, McQ, John
+
'''No meetings in July'''
−
* Dani - '''Approval for Docs''' - flexibility around docs is good, but after RC4 is too late.
+
 
−
* Dani - '''Re-Opening HEAD''' - basically OK, to be discussed at the Arch call.
+
−
* McQ - '''Shutting down status messages''' for rest of the month except for really noteworthy things.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 2, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, McQ, John, McQ
+
'''Jun 4, 2014''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex
−
* Dani - '''ECF Issues''': Why does Eclipse have a process with Approvals while ECF does not. At the moment, there is a mutual dependency.
+
* Dani: '''RC4 Status''' looking good
−
** Once we decided to consume them, we have no control over their rules.
+
** 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
−
** Our only option is not consuming late changes from them (and thus burn the community and them).
+
** Rest of the team working on docs
−
** John - there are some cases where we could push back a bit more (without going to the limit of not consuming at all).
+
** Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
−
** Problems have been due to the build (and not due to quality issues in their code). But this doesn't change the fact that '''ANY''' late binding change is work and risk and should thus be pushed back if possible.
+
* John: '''Went over the N&N''' ... number of things went in after M7 :)
−
** McQ would like to be more flexible accepting changes .. are we becoming too stiff? ie. do what we can to mitigate risk, but live with taking risk .. that's part of the Eclipse Way.
+
** Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way
−
* John - '''Builds after RC4'''
+
 
−
** Need PMC agreement. John going to discuss cross-project criteria.
+
−
** McQ doesn't want to tie our release to the winds of others (outside Eclipse) getting back to us or not. '''We should not be asking cross-project for approval.'''
+
−
** Each project is going to do what makes most sense to them (including us). In favor of having the conversation, but not asking for approval.
+
−
* John - '''When to start 3.7 and 3.6.1 builds''' - defer to next week.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 26, 2010:''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Jeff, John
+
'''Jun 11, 2014''' - Martin, McQ, Alex, John
−
* Brief meeting. John just mentions that there's surprisingly many "Critical" bugs. Maybe just a triage problem. Will bring up in Arch call.
+
* John: Eclipse Theming: When switching the OS Theme to dark, Eclipse should be aware
 +
** Dark Theme is currently a tech preview
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 19, 2010:''' - Dani, McQ, Martin, Jeff, John
+
'''Jun 4, 2014''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex
−
* John - {{bug|27930}} '''Naming of Eclipse Classic'''
+
* Dani: '''RC4 Status''' looking good
−
** McQ - No other package on that page is the output of a single project, would want to see Eclipse SDK removed from packages page
+
** 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
−
** Jeff - "RCP/Plugin Developer" used to be direct replacements (SDK + Mylyn + XML Editor), but now also includes RAP (217MB)
+
** Rest of the team working on docs
−
** Dani - Some people go to downloads/ and then look for a milestone
+
** Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
−
** "Development Builds" tab provides access to milestones of packages; "Projects" tab provides access to direct project output.
+
* John: '''Went over the N&N''' ... number of things went in after M7 :)
−
** '''Resolution:''' 650.000 people have downloaded classic (#2 download), even scrolling down - changing this is a waste.
+
** Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way
−
* Dani - {{bug|313524}} '''Preference for new API Constant''' for the Formatter (also [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=59891#c45 bug 59891 comment 45] and onwards)
+
 
−
** Some people don't like the new look (method wrapping) - currently no way to have the formatter behave the same in 3.5 and 3.6
+
−
** '''Resolution:''' pmc+ since little effort avoids lot of churn. Keeping the functionality without allowing to disable is a no-go.
+
−
* Martin - '''Feedback channel for removing API''' process (e.g. {{bug|311931}})
+
−
** '''Resolution:''' Add a suggestion to the [[Eclipse/API Central/API Removal Process]] page to start fresh for the feedback channel if there's a lot of discussion on the existing bug (by bugzilla clone)
+
−
* John - '''4.0 topics'''
+
−
** FYI: Ian created a draft of a [http://www.eclipse.org/helios/eclipse-sdk-4.0/ landing page]. Working on a [http://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse/Eclipse_SDK_4.0_FAQ release FAQ] page
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 12, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, John, Jeff, Dani
+
'''May 28, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* Remaining work for Release - John: Checklist (Docs, collective N&N etc... IP Logs end May)
+
* Dani: '''EOL'ing the Delta Pack''' - announce now, remove during Mars - it's been obsoleted by p2 functionality
−
** [[Eclipse/Release checklist]], and [[Eclipse Doc Checklist]]. '''AI Dani''' has another one for Docs - will update for 3.6 and send offline
+
** Alex: Some of the test suite relied on the delta pack, it caused issues, OK with removing (PDE tests would need to be cleaned up)
−
** [[Platform-releng-faq#Eclipse_Release_checklist]] also links to [[3.3 Release checklist]]
+
* Dani: '''Copyright Updates''' - tool is very slow since not ported from CVS properly, can run for hours
−
* IP Logs for subprojects - '''AI Jeff''' talk to Wayne to allow IP logs for container projects, also ask Boris (committer rep) - unsure if we have a committer rep on the IP Advisory committee, but we should have
+
** John: Worth doing periodically but probably won't matter legally since copyright lasts for 7 years
−
* Eclipse SDK 4.0 Naming
+
** The change is not without risk (Dani: Could schedule after the release)
−
** John - from Mailing List discussion, "Eclipse SDK 4.0 Early Adopter Release" seemed to be the favorite one
+
** McQ: Should consider updating the tool as part of that work
−
** Next year's release will be 4.1. Ian going to prepare a landing page to send the right message, working with Boris and John
+
** Alex: Has a new intern, could use this as an opportunity to join
−
* API Deletion - luceneSearchParticipant
+
* Dani: '''RC3 status''' - last planned build - looking good, except for Platform UI, where the list of bugs is still long
−
** Deprecation should include a migration path (if it exists).
+
* McQ: Discussions about a new Eclipse.org Web-based Toplevel Project
−
** Will document deletions in the migration guide (and probably also in the README)
+
 
−
** Martin: Add a Bugzilla Keyword for API Deletions, will make it very easy to create a query for all pending API deletions
+
−
** Jeff: Whatever we do, current deletions should be examplary.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 5, 2010:''' - McQ, Martin, John, Dani
+
'''May 14, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
−
* Martin - {{bug|309059}} root cert validity? - Tom investigating, no new info
+
* Alex: SWT GTK3 and the Endgame Rules
−
* Martin - How to mark issues for [[Polish3.6]] (UNC issues, Launcher vmargs {{bug|149994}}) - who sets the Bugzilla polish kwd?
+
* Dani: Luna Plan Update
−
** Martin to bring up again, and add to the Polish Wiki, and add the polish keyword on bz.
+
* John: New Dashboard created by the EMO
−
** Any Eclipse Platform committer is allowed to suggest items that bug him personally on the polish list (against any component).
+
−
* John - Helios Plan update
+
−
* John - API Removal
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 28, 2010:''' - Jeff, Martin, John, McQ, Dani
+
'''May 7, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, John, Martin
−
* Martin - '''[[Eclipse/UNC_Paths]]''' - testing for 3.6 ? Bugzilla: [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwords&short_desc=unc&classification=Eclipse&classification=RT&product=Equinox&product=Platform&product=JDT&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&product=PDE All open with UNC in the summary]
+
* Martin {{bug|241957}} - GTK clipboard hang
−
** Especially {{bug|289322}} and {{bug|262601}} are blocking for Martin, because these make it impossible to have Eclipse installed on an UNC path (common scenario in large organizations)
+
** Alex: GTK guys recommended using the async API, but no time for more investigation
−
** Consensus: ''No concerted effort'', there are likely other more pressing issues; but ''investigate and prioritize what we find, and fix if possible''.
+
** McQ: Switching a sync API to async implementation underneath can be extremely messy (need to be aware of all possible events and event sources...)
−
** <b><i>Running on UNC is considered a Polish item</i></b>.
+
** McQ: If there is an idea canceling the clipboard wait ... given that the issue occurs only rarely, even a hacky solution is better than nothing
−
* Jeff, McQ - '''Eclipse 4.0 Naming'''
+
* Dani: will do a plan update, hopefully this week
−
** Suggestion: "Eclipse 4.0 Indigo Preview"
+
−
** McQ: Don't want to send a negative message - it ''is'' usable though add-on support may be missing
+
−
** John: This is a new release of the Platform, but not all of Eclipse Foundation technology... unsure how to phrase that into a release name
+
−
** Jeff: Based on this, putting Indigo into the name is a negative and may trigger false assumptions
+
−
** McQ: ''Eclipse SDK 4.0 Developer Release'' - sends the right message
+
−
** Jeff: '''Come up with 3 or 4 suggestions and bounce these around'''. Start a public discussion. Check with other OSS projects, e.g. Andrew Overholt
+
−
* McQ - '''1.5 BREE for Resources to support Unicode Characters'''
+
−
** Suggest everything on top of the base RCP move up to 1.5
+
−
** Jeff: "Move when you need to and not before" - when do we "need to"
+
−
* John - '''[[Eclipse/API Central/API Removal Process]]
+
−
** Just a compilation of things discussed before. '''Discuss on the Mailing List'''
+
−
* McQ - '''Pascal as the OBR spec lead'''
+
−
** From point of view of the Eclipse Project, can't imagine what value we'd get from participating in OBR spec. IBM might care.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 21, 2010:''' - Jeff, Martin, John, Dani, McQ
+
'''April 30, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
−
* John - extended '''2 day test pass''' for M7 on Mon and Tue
+
* McQ: '''WB4 perspective customization''' - has it caused any issues ?
−
* Jeff - '''Eclipse 4.0 naming'''
+
** Martin: Dealing with detached views works differently (dragging a window fails - must drag the tab inside the window)
−
** McQ hopes that Eclipse 4.0 will be good enough for public consumption - whatever we call it, it needs to be what we call it
+
** Dani: Saved perspectives / windows are lost on an existing workspace when moving from 3.x to 4.x
−
** Jeff - the message should be that it's (a) new, (b) cool, (c) not quite done yet
+
*** Martin/McQ: When crossing the major version boundary, it is OK to lose state - it's not nice but acceptable
−
** McQ - 4.0 won't be as performant as 3.x. Users will see the new cool presentation, but other than that it's like 3.6
+
** Dani: The bigger problem is, that the whole "Perspective customization" dialog is still not working as expected
−
** Biggest problem will be people who don't follow the Community and just get 4.0 because they heard about it
+
*** Martin: Agree with the concern, but the Perspective customization dialog wasn't ever great
−
** Jeff - Comes down to setting expectations. Naming is one aspect of this, there's other aspects.
+
*** McQ: If invest work here, rather make it good than bring back the previous status quo
−
** John - Ian organized an e4-evangelist call.
+
*** Martin: Most customization done via plugin.xml / Java , don't expect end users to do a lot of customization themselves
−
** McQ - Most people will just consume the release train (Helios) anyways, and will notice that 4.0 is "different".
+
* Dani: '''M7 status'''
−
* Martin - {{bug|306822}} '''IncrementalBuilder.getRule()''' API addition: Ask James whether CDT Helios can pick up the change
+
** Defect triage under control - some items deferred to 4.5
−
* Martin - '''James for committer''' - move to public policy of only considering committed contributions
+
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 14, 2010:''' - John, Dani, Martin, Jeff
+
'''April 23, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin
−
* Martin - '''Startup Performance tests''': Cold start after reboot is 20% slower in 3.6m6 compared to 3.5.2 (while warm start is about the same)
+
* Alex - GTK2 or GTK3 as default - GTK3 it is
−
** Manual test: Reboot a minimal WinXP system, then start into a fresh workspace with 1 JDT project (20 files) 1 open file in the editor.
+
** GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to
−
** 28 sec in 3.5.2 but 36 sec in 3.6m6. Will file a bug tomorrow.
+
*** xulrunner - latest version not supported by swt and latest distros don't even ship standalone xulrunner
−
** John: There are 2 startup performance tests in the suite, but they are unreliable. In 3.6, changed the way tests are installed (director rather than dropins), thus baseline is not helpful.
+
*** webkitgtk - gtk2 version in maintenance mode, upstream consider dropping, really crashy See [https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-gtk/2014-March/001821.html]
−
** Jeff: Try have a look at {{Bug|308157}} Jarfile cache now limited to 100. Reason might just be cycling through more Jar's.
+
** GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
−
* John, Dani - '''Polish List'''
+
** McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
−
* John - '''e4 plan update'''. Waiting on McQ, wants an accurate list on what's graduating.
+
* Dani - '''Freeze Plan created'''
−
** Jeff - once something is in 4.0 you cannot remove in 4.x so better think twice before graduating.
+
* John - '''Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret'''
−
** John - Eclipse SDK 4.0 has a minimal API exposed, most new stuff is under the covers so this is not so much of an issue.
+
*  
−
** Jeff - More important to have Eclipse SDK 4.0 rock solid than have it feature complete. Do few things well rather than many things poorly.
+
−
** John - '''Self-hosting a day on Eclipse 4.0 without blocking issues!''' (But much to be polished, bugs, errors in the log etc).
+
−
* Jeff - '''Runtime SDK's vs "targets"''': The label SDK is ambiguous. Want to install tooling + target platform together, but cannot do that today.
+
−
** Today, we use "SDK" for (a) tools+source+docs, or (b) runtime+source+docs. None of both is really an SDK.
+
−
** Better call the target stuff just "targets".
+
−
** Developer docs as part of the tooling is wrong ... should be associated with targets instead.
+
−
** John: p2 does have the ability to install into multiple profiles (plan = multiple profiles)... might be (mis)used for this, is it a hack?
+
−
** Jeff: Much target provisioning was deferred off 3.6
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 7, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff, John
+
'''April 16, 2014''' - Dani, Alex
−
* Builds - short call
+
* no topics today
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Mar 31, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John
+
'''April 9, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* Martin - '''EclipseCon Report'''
+
* Dani - '''Kepler SR2 and Java 8'''
−
** General industry trend pointing up (as perceived on the exhibition floor); e4 rover great success! other strong topics included build (b3, buckminster, maven / tycho / nexus, athena...)
+
** Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
−
** e4 message in general very well positioned and received; git / egit was another hot topic
+
** Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
−
** Modeling and RT projects in an up trend, other projects seem to go slightly down in terms of Community interest as well as commercial involvement
+
** Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
−
** API Tutorial very well received, Martin going to work on a "Wiki" version of checklists and guidance, will notify AC when done
+
** Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
−
* John - Eclipse 4.0: Timing for graduating e4 incubation material into the Eclipse proper
+
 
−
** We cannot ship an Eclipse SDK out of the e4 project
+
* John - '''Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions'''
−
** Want a clear message what Eclipse 4.0 is... probably "includes incubating components" like some EPP packages
+
** Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
−
** '''AI John''' talk to Mike and Ian
+
** Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
 +
** Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
 +
** Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Mar 17, 2010:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
+
 
−
* McQ: '''git''' vs CVS: Should there be contributions by Platform on Egit?
+
'''April 2, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
−
** Martin: Don't know how well egit proceeded recently, Boris might know more... important point is that the major workflows are perfect. Looks like the major workflows have been identified already.
+
* Dani - new GTK3+ issues
−
* Martin: '''WebkitGTK / MiniBrowser''': In addition to the recent WebkitGTK discussion, perhaps work on a "Minibrowser" API that can live with published frozen Mozilla API only? Many apps may not need the full feature-richness of today's Browser.
+
** crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX ({{bug|431330}})
−
** McQ unsure whether this is worthwile, since all industry trends go towards more web integration. '''AI Martin''' follow up with Grant
+
** problems with main menu ({{bug|419830}})
−
* Dani: '''Performance and Polish''' passes
+
* Dani - '''Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work'''
−
** All teams need to fix the issues that Frederic finds. M7 is the performance and polish pass. Prioritize items.
+
** Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
−
* Dani: '''Freeze Plan'''
+
* Dani - need to '''approve API changes for Java 8 in M7'''
−
** Suggest a 2-day test pass (mon/tue) before the RC's, ie move 1 day from RC2 into M7
+
** No API changes, only additions
 +
** Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
 +
** ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
 +
** There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
 +
* John - '''SWT over JavaFX'''
 +
** EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
 +
** Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
 +
** Relationship to Tom Schindl's [http://www.eclipse.org/efxclipse/index.html e(fx)clipse project] ?
 +
*** e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
 +
*** Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
 +
*** Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in {{bug|426243}}
 +
*** Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
 +
**** It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
 +
**** John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
 +
*** Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Mar 10, 2010:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, John
+
'''March 26, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* John: '''Provisional API guidelines''' (removing the requirement to have "internal" in the package name) - important for e4 which will have a lot of provisional API.  
+
* John - '''EclipseCon Update'''
−
** See also {{bug|261874}} and Wiki [[Provisional API Guidelines Update Proposal]]
+
** Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
−
** "Old School" wanted to make provisional API deliberately painful. Migrating "provisional" to real without renaming will make breakage more subtle
+
** IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
−
** The game has changed: Adding x-internal, friends and API Tooling works much better than before, making it clear where API is provisional
+
** Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
−
** Martin: Much in favor of this, do we have any markup beyond x-internal for (a) making provisional API more explicitly visible or (b) work on a smaller granularity such as just a class?
+
** Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
−
*** McQ: granularity smaller than package makes it too easy to pollute API
+
** See also Blog Posts from [http://cdtdoug.ca/ Doug Schaefer] and [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/author/irbull/ Ian Bull] as well as [https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2014/news/top-5-ian-bull top 5 from Ian]
−
*** Jeff: would like x-api-status:=provisional markup instead of x-internal:=true ... better do it right than half-baken. Could probably come to a fairly fast consensus on MANIFEST markup
+
* John - '''ARM port of GTK''' - any tracking items ?
−
** Resolution Lets agree now that x-internal is sufficient for provisional API, and discuss further approvements in parallel. '''AI John''' to search existing bugs about provisional API markup and initiate a discussion on the eclipse-pmc mailing list.
+
** Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
−
* Jeff: '''Target Provisioning and PDE:''' Target components in Galileo (which cannot be installed into the host) - came up with sort of a hack which still confuses users
+
** IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
−
** Want just a little bit help in PDE to make target provisioning just a little bit better .. a number of PDE bugs related to this, many been deferred .. there will be new bugs coming to capture what can be done in the short term
+
** Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
−
** Resolution: will mark up those new bugs where they request PMC involvement
+
** Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
−
* McQ: '''Build Quality:''' There is traditionally a drop in quality around this time of year (API Freeze and Eclipsecon), plus infrastructure problems. It's not really bad but we need to be careful now.
+
*** Example: {{bug|430698}}, {{bug|429237}}, {{bug|415757}}; {{bug|419855}} talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
−
** John: Resist the urge to put in extra fixes. We are past the test pass. Quality over function, especially now.
+
*** Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
 +
*** Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
 +
**** Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
 +
**** Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
 +
* Alex - '''Java 8 vs Java 7''' currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
 +
** In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
 +
** ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is {{bug|390889}} and we'll try to fix it for M7.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Mar 3, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
+
'''March 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
−
* Martin: Remove org.eclipse.update.configurator and related bundles from SDK? As per {{bug|304505}} it makes Eclipse slow even when off.
+
* McQ - '''Congrats on Java 8 Release''' to coincide with the Oracle release
−
** Dani: Might be more than a packaging issue, somebody would have to invest
+
* Dani - '''Windows 8 Support''' - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
−
** McQ: Should fix the Performance issue at any rate, regardless of other issues.
+
** McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
−
* John sick, Dani vacation next week.
+
** Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
 +
** Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Feb 24, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
+
'''March 12, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, McQ, John
−
* Dani: Remove Java 7 support as a plan item due to (a) legal reasons and (b) Java 7 not being finished when Eclipse 3.6 ships
+
* GTK - SWT team discussions
 +
* John - '''preparing for Java 8 release'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Feb 17, 2010:''' - Martin, Dani, John
+
'''March 5, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* Martin: {{bug|196337}} Pushing CDT Spawner into the Platform?
+
* Dani: '''How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit''' - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
−
** John, Dani: Platform could only accept it when there is use for it in the SDK. Otherwise it would just bloat the Platform
+
* Dani: '''Windows 8 Support'''
−
** Recommended best practice: Keep Spawner living in CDT, but put it into a separate bundle such that it can be used by others out of Helios or other p2 Repos
+
** Not listed in official plan
−
** The [[Nexus Project]], which was once meant to collect such micro functionality to be shared between projects was never successful. Similar requests (e.g. faceted projects) are consumed as individual bundles through p2 today, no matter in which project they have their home where they are developed.
+
** No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
−
* Martin: {{bug|301563}} Fast project import from snapshot data - UI or not?
+
** Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
−
** John: Want some UI in the Platform in order to test it more easily, e.g. an export wizard
+
** Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
−
* John: Webkit
+
** AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
−
** Foundation is considering allowing LGPL for exempt prereqs, but not for works-with .. missing a policy for dealing with LGPL works-with
+
*** Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
−
** John: Our original reason for marking works-with is that the SWT browser can use either Mozilla or WebKit. However our long term direction is WebKit-only due to brittleness of the Mozilla API which keeps breaking us. There is an increasing number of distros bundling these WebKit libraries so there is a reasonable chance going forward that the library will already be present on the user's machine.
+
* Dani: '''State of GTK 3+'''
−
** Martin: Exempt works-with (optional) prereq is perfectly fine for Webkit, since there is a chance it's already there on a Platform (similar to Mozilla)
+
** Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
−
** Classifying it as such makes most sense for Product builders, who look at the prereqs to understand what they need to bundle with their Eclipse based product.
+
** Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
−
** PMC agreed to reclassify these libraries as exempt pre-req.
+
** Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
 +
** Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
 +
** On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
 +
** Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
 +
* Alex: '''GTK 3 in Mars'''
 +
** Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
 +
** RHEL 5 would no longer work
 +
** Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Feb 10, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ
+
'''February 26, 2014''' - Alex, John, Martin, McQ
−
* We agreed to list WebKitGTK and libsoup 2.4 as works-with prerequisites
+
* John: '''Orion Release''' this week
−
* We need to find consensus on {{bug|243582}} (embedding source info in binaries)
+
 
−
* Discussed moving Ubuntu version on the plan from 9.04 to 10.04. It is too early to make this decision because release candidates of 10.04 are not yet available, but we will continue to monitor it and make the decision to move up (or not) later in the 3.6 cycle
+
* Alex: '''Eclipse on ARM64'''
 +
** Launcher and swt at first
 +
** Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
 +
** John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
 +
*** Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
 +
*** At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
 +
** Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
 +
 
 +
* Dani: Update on '''GTK 3+ issue''' - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
 +
** Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
 +
** McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
 +
*** If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
 +
*** Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
 +
*** Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Feb 03, 2010:''' - Dani, Martin
+
'''February 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
−
* Dani: {{Bug|301563}} -  Fast project import from snapshot data
+
* Dani: '''Silenio to work on GTK issue?'''
−
** Has the feature been verified to really return the expected performance gain? - Martin: Yes, Cisco reports 10 minute -> 5 seconds improvement by using the feature on project import on their view (65000 files)
+
* John: '''GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation'''
−
** Is the feature valuable without Index contributions from JDT / CDT? - Martin: Yes, even "plain" projects benefit when there are linked resources pointing to web folders through RSE/EFS since they can be browsed immediately and refresh can be reduced to what's really needed. But most benefit is gained when there is also a shared index to be imported for immediate use.
+
* John: '''e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools'''
−
** Dani proposed checkin into a branch for easier merge / review - Martin: Will start working with patches
+
** Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
−
** AI Martin: Contact Sharon regarding IP review (reserve a slot)
+
** Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
 +
** Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
 +
** John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
 +
** Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
 +
*** If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
 +
** Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 27, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
'''February 5, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* Dani: Markus Keller taking over JDT UI
+
* Dani: '''Confcall Numbers:''' Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
−
* John: M6 Splashscreen for Eclipsecon: {{bug|297355}}
+
* Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
−
* McQ: Removing Builds - SWT needs Linux-Motif, so only WPF about to be removed
+
* Alex: Testing on modern Linux
−
** In discussions with Microsoft, it turned out that WPF is not required to get full Windows 7 experience under Win32
+
−
** XAML for styling was meant to be a cool idea but never got flying
+
−
** Socialize people with this -- find whether people are inerested in contributing on this, if yes then we should support them
+
−
* Still working the IBM approval process for travelling to Eclipsecon
+
−
* Avoid merging major feature work after a milestone's Tuesday test pass
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 20, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
'''January 22, 2014''' - John, Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* McQ: Contacted Steve N, still interested but unlikely to get more energy for investing into Eclipse
+
* John, Alex: '''New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora'''
−
* John: 3.5.2 test pass tomorrow, but yesterday's I-build been a mess
+
** Alex been looking at Browser
−
* McQ: Message about supporting Open JDK in a blog ... status should be "nice that it works but it's not a reference platform"
+
** Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
 +
** Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
 +
*** Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
 +
*** Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
 +
* Dani: '''M5 Status'''
 +
** Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 13, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Martin
+
'''January 15, 2014''' - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin
−
* McQ: U Manitoba students to help with technical communication (documentation, website, ...) for e4
+
* Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
−
* Dani: New way of contributing Capabilities for Helios... are we OK? - John: yes, Platform Capabilities are in the SDK feature
+
* Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion
−
** FYI: Incubating projects are
+
−
* Martin: Documenting the Platforms we routinely test on
+
−
** Unittest / Perftest machines are know. When John updated the Reference Platform doc, he made sure that he knows at least one committer on each platform
+
−
** A poll to know what Platform(s) are actively used (by committers) on milestone granularity would be very helpful - John going to set that up
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jan 6, 2010:''' - John, Dani, McQ, Jeff
+
'''January 8, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ
−
* Agreed on 3.5.2 [http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/freeze_plan_3_5_2.php freeze plan]
+
* Dani: '''API Freeze''' with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception
−
** Note RC2 is a week earlier to avoid colliding with Helios M5 week
+
−
* Discussed Helios plan updates 2 {{bug|298200}}
+
−
** Update Java 7 plan item to indicate only working on publicly available bits. Some progress made on getting access to specs but going slowly.
+
−
** Update reference JRE's to latest version of each JRE
+
−
* Jeff will be away for next six weeks (vacation)
+
−
* McQ to contact Steve to see if he still wishes to remain on PMC
+
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Revision as of 05:18, 18 December 2014

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every wednesday at 10.30am EST.

Meeting Minutes

December 17, 2014 - McQ, John, Dani

  • Platform UI leadership to be discussed in the next PMC call
  • no call on December 24 and December 31

December 10, 2014 - Alex, McQ, John, Dani, Martin

  • Dani: bug 427768 Mickael (Red Hat) - Nested Project support contribution to Common Navigator to better support Maven projects
  • Dani: Red Hat also will wants to contribute making the Import easier bug 421930. First in the e4 incubator.
    • Just import from a folder, and contribute project configurators via extension point (e.g. detect POM files, Makefiles, ...)
    • McQ: Many complexities ... different users may want very different things to happen
      • McQ: Just point to a Git repo -- the Git repo has a little metadata file at the root which allows launching the apps that the repo had been intended for ... maybe just make the project tree(s) a little more self-describing
      • Is there a growing list of repos which already have that? - John: In the Java world, pom.xml is getting that ...
      • Alex: .doap getting this (at least for Apache and GNOME projects - specifies at least the languages used)
  • Web IDEs : McQ and others gone through a lot of analysis of Web IDE's
    • Cloud9 has a much larger set of starting points ; in terms of the underlying core structure, Orion (and also Jay) are more interesting
    • Orion has an extremely lightweight plug-in model: pieces coming from all over the world may look like all running on the server - nice infrastructure for building Community around it
    • Orion + Flux could be a rival for anything out there
    • Orion continues to push on the Core Coding experience - Orion Editor is on par or better than most desktop editors
  • Vision: See Minutes on the platform-vision mailing list ... Delivery will depend on people actually participating

December 3, 2014 - Alex, Martin, Dani, John (McQ travelling)

  • John: Platform Vision - How to turn that into actionable items, Wayne wants to present to the Board
  • John: Performance tests running again since a couple weeks, now the graphs are also back again :)

November 26, 2014 - Alex, Dani

  • No relevant topics / decisions

November 19, 2014 - Alex, Martin, Dani (McQ and John had issues dialing in)

  • Dani: Jetty 9 - Upgrade has been done, but new versions coming out ... will probably update from Jetty 9.2.3 to Jetty 9.2.5. Probably 9.3
    • WTP interested in newer Jetty version ... need to agree on a common version across the Release Train.
    • Alex: New Jetty JSP compiler failing ... filed a bug, will want this fixed (Jetty working on it)
  • Dani: bug 179924 Request for ssh-agent - patch against Team from YMNK (JSch Committer)
    • egit would contribute the agent, but would make more sense putting it in Platform (+1 from Martin, no objection from Alex)
  • Equinox Declarative Services implementation - ProSyst stopped providing fixes, not responsive any more
    • New specificiation (R6) from OSGi adding lot of features, cannot risk staying behind
    • Suggestion to remove the ProSyst stuff and replace it with the Apache Felix implementation (used by IBM / WebSphere and others)
    • Martin: How mature / stable is the Felix code ? Can we influence it ?
      • Dani: Very mature. Have more influence on Felix than on the Prosyst stuff ... through the IBM committers and others.
      • Alex agrees. Using some parts of Felix already.
  • John (via Dani): Move e4 into Platform/UI - would like to start the review process next week.

November 5, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Eclipse Foundation greatbugs initiative - call into PMC
  • Dani: EclipseCon Europe Report - met lot of people, best attended EclipseCon Europe ever :)
    • IOT; IDE in the Web; are people moving away from Eclipse before the transition to Web can be completed ?
  • Alex: Discussion with Christian Campo on scaling up
    • Should better go into SWT ... but SWT has a reputation that it's hard getting a change in -- people prefer re-doing things their own than contributing :(
    • Alex thinks this problem doesn't exist any more ... but how to fight this misconception ?
    • John: Getting a change in may now be hard due to other reasons, eg lack of experienced committers
    • Alex: Consider voting in new committers more easily if somebody is interested ?
  • Alex: Difference between Eclipse and the Linux Foundation
    • Linux Foundation doesn't provide anything that anybody can use directly (just a source tarball) --> all users become "contributors" of some sort
    • This leads to different expectations and has a number advantages (eg issues are reported to and worked on by member companies only)

October 22, 2014 - Alex, Dani, McQ, John

  • Platform plan update nearly done, will be released soon
  • Orion release review is ongoing, release will be next week
  • Brief discussion of new bug reporting tool and related bug dashboard
  • PMC called canceled next week due to EclipseCon Europe

October 1, 2014 - Alex, Dani, Martin, McQ

  • Dani - In touch with Oracle regarding Solaris x86
  • McQ - Platform UI tension between making Platform UI as stable as possible, versus new features
    • Community forming for new contributions - that's great! - But takes committer's time; committers reduced to "productize and fix" is problematic
    • how to get more contributions for bug fixes ?
      • Alex: What about saying "This release we only accept bug fixes" ? Or for some milestone, eg after M4 only accept bug fixes ?
      • Dani: Sounds great, but will the Community accept that ? - JDT BugBash did not work that well...
      • Dani to prepare a draft message
  • Dani was in Bangalore - talked to Arun - good collaboration with Alex
    • Hard to get new SWT developers (Sami moving away on RH side)
    • Ideas to keep SWT relevant ... eg generate Browser based things
      • GTK3 supports running in a browser now... (just one label for now, but an interesting approach)

September 24, 2014 - Alex, Dani, McQ, John, Martin

  • John: SWT Binaries Repository has got too big
    • Will prune old versions out of the git repository (which is only used internally) - "Release" drops will still be available from release builds.
    • DECISION: OK to prune.
  • SWT master still has sources for old Platforms like carbon and motif - cluttering up the source code
    • DECISION: OK to remove references - source would remain in git for old branches, but not be visible in master any more.
  • Dani: p2 and Equinox - no sign-off for M2, leaders stepping down ?
    • consider moving p2 back into Equinox, and probably Equinox back into the Eclipse project ?
    • John: Equinox committers not really knowledgeable about p2 ... still, with less than 3 active committers a threshold is reached (can't hold elections any more)
    • Still there's a couple of people contributing, so there are knowledgeable folk around
    • Dani: If there's committers committing code, they should also be responsible for sign-off
  • Dani: Java 7 and Jetty 9
    • Been using Jetty 8 for a while, now, there is Community Pressure upgrading to Jetty 9 but that requires Java 7
    • Java 6 no longer getting public updates since February 2013
    • John:Adoptions needed in the Help System when moving to Jetty 9 ?
      • Alex don't think so - been shipping Jetty 9 for over a year already; only required changing some dependencies.
      • ACTION ITEM: Alex offered to check this
  • Alex: Drop all the Java 6 Platforms from the list of Reference Platforms?
    • DECISION: Yes this needs to be done. Trying to support Java 6 won't buy any benefit at this point.

September 17, 2014 - no meeting

September 10, 2014 - John, Martin, Alex, Dani

  • John: Mars having some build hickups due to removing Mac 32-bit builds
  • John: Luna SR1 - almost done, respinning for 2 bugs in Equinox
  • John: Cloud TLP (for Orion and others) - still on track for announcing end October
  • Alex: Been busy with other stuff recently, back on the GTK version support discussion this week
    • Martin: Many people will know what distro they have (or need), but not what GTK they have on there
      • John: Also running GTK on AIX, Solaris, Linux Power and other which are not moving up that fast...
      • Martin: Examples: RHEL 5.8 was GTK 2.10.4-21 ; RHEL 4.5 was at GTK 2.4.13-22
      • Popular distros would be Ubuntu LTS, RHEL, OpenSUSE
    • Alex: Newer distros have up to 3 GTK versions installed, along with some means to switch between them, it's very confusing
    • Eclipse is the only project that dynamically loads DLL's and tries to support a broad range ... others typically compile against a specific version
      • Most projects require GTK 2.24
    • John: GTK versions are not really predictable ... between 3.04 and 3.10 there was a breaking change
    • Alex: In every release there are small issues that we work around; and there's certain releases that are breaking stuff
    • NEXT ACTION: Send E-Mail

September 3, 2014 - John, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: away next week and on/off the next two weeks due to travel
  • Dani: RC4 next week. PMC please watch the PMC mailing list
    • John: will be available and monitor the mailing list
  • Dani: Oracle interested in providing access to a Solaris 64-bit machine bug 442266
  • John: How/where to graduate the e4 tools
    • the community wants to graduate this out of incubation
    • initially proposed to create a separate project, but feels like adding too much overhead
    • John: proposed PDE as home, then Dani suggested to use Platform UI
    • Alex, Dani and John agree to suggest Platform UI as home for the e4 tools.
    • John to send a note to Lars
  • Alex: Limit supported number of GTK+ versions
    • SWT currently has to support over 20 different version. This doesn't scale.
    • Proposal: Bump min supported version with one minor release each release. Aka Luna has Gtk 2.10 as min, Mars would have 2.12 as min. Can consider even two minor releases (Mars requires 2.14) as this would keep the amount of supported versions the same as GTK releases one minor release every 6 months.
    • Dani, John: this is too limiting. We tended to support the most possible. Newest versions might have too many bugs.
    • All agree: we'd like to limit the amount of supported versions
    • Alex to cast a poll via Eclipse Foundation, which versions are used by users and companies

August 27, 2014 - cancelled

August 20, 2014 - John, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: new platform PowerPC 64-bit LE bug 441358
    • maintained by IBM
    • will be added to 4.4.1 as early access
    • Dani to send a note to cross-platform
  • Dani: individual made patches to support Solaris 64-bit bug 442266
    • we'd like to add it but don't have a machine to support it
    • important because our current 32-bit Solaris build will become obselete since there's no 32-bit JRE for Java 7 and beyond
    • Oracle should be interested since they provide both, Java and Solaris
    • Dani to ask Oracle

August 13, 2014 - McQ, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Any feedback for the Mars plan?
    • McQ:
      • It does not cover Orion, but that is OK and like in previous release plans. Orion will most likely be moved to another top-level project soon.
      • We want to remove Mac OS X Universal 32-bit (all agreed)
  • Dani: How to deal with requests to push our bundles to repo.eclipse.org bug 441530
    • Dani: OK for me but we won't do the work
    • Alex: Maven needs the dependencies in the pom.xml. We don't want copy them from the manifest into the pom.xml and then maintain this. The pom should be updated when publishing the file into the Maven repo. Ideally by an automated task.
    • Conclusion: all agree with this, i.e. we won't do the actual work and we won't "pollute" our pom files.

August 6, 2014 - McQ, Dani

  • Dani: Will provide initial Mars plan next week


No meetings in July


Jun 4, 2014 - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: RC4 Status looking good
    • 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
    • Rest of the team working on docs
    • Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
  • John: Went over the N&N ... number of things went in after M7 :)
    • Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way


Jun 11, 2014 - Martin, McQ, Alex, John

  • John: Eclipse Theming: When switching the OS Theme to dark, Eclipse should be aware
    • Dark Theme is currently a tech preview


Jun 4, 2014 - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: RC4 Status looking good
    • 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
    • Rest of the team working on docs
    • Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
  • John: Went over the N&N ... number of things went in after M7 :)
    • Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way


May 28, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: EOL'ing the Delta Pack - announce now, remove during Mars - it's been obsoleted by p2 functionality
    • Alex: Some of the test suite relied on the delta pack, it caused issues, OK with removing (PDE tests would need to be cleaned up)
  • Dani: Copyright Updates - tool is very slow since not ported from CVS properly, can run for hours
    • John: Worth doing periodically but probably won't matter legally since copyright lasts for 7 years
    • The change is not without risk (Dani: Could schedule after the release)
    • McQ: Should consider updating the tool as part of that work
    • Alex: Has a new intern, could use this as an opportunity to join
  • Dani: RC3 status - last planned build - looking good, except for Platform UI, where the list of bugs is still long
  • McQ: Discussions about a new Eclipse.org Web-based Toplevel Project


May 14, 2014 - Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Alex: SWT GTK3 and the Endgame Rules
  • Dani: Luna Plan Update
  • John: New Dashboard created by the EMO

May 7, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Martin bug 241957 - GTK clipboard hang
    • Alex: GTK guys recommended using the async API, but no time for more investigation
    • McQ: Switching a sync API to async implementation underneath can be extremely messy (need to be aware of all possible events and event sources...)
    • McQ: If there is an idea canceling the clipboard wait ... given that the issue occurs only rarely, even a hacky solution is better than nothing
  • Dani: will do a plan update, hopefully this week

April 30, 2014 - Dani, Martin, McQ

  • McQ: WB4 perspective customization - has it caused any issues ?
    • Martin: Dealing with detached views works differently (dragging a window fails - must drag the tab inside the window)
    • Dani: Saved perspectives / windows are lost on an existing workspace when moving from 3.x to 4.x
      • Martin/McQ: When crossing the major version boundary, it is OK to lose state - it's not nice but acceptable
    • Dani: The bigger problem is, that the whole "Perspective customization" dialog is still not working as expected
      • Martin: Agree with the concern, but the Perspective customization dialog wasn't ever great
      • McQ: If invest work here, rather make it good than bring back the previous status quo
      • Martin: Most customization done via plugin.xml / Java , don't expect end users to do a lot of customization themselves
  • Dani: M7 status
    • Defect triage under control - some items deferred to 4.5


April 23, 2014 - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin

  • Alex - GTK2 or GTK3 as default - GTK3 it is
    • GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to
      • xulrunner - latest version not supported by swt and latest distros don't even ship standalone xulrunner
      • webkitgtk - gtk2 version in maintenance mode, upstream consider dropping, really crashy See [1]
    • GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
    • McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
  • Dani - Freeze Plan created
  • John - Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret

April 16, 2014 - Dani, Alex

  • no topics today

April 9, 2014 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani - Kepler SR2 and Java 8
    • Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
    • Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
    • Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
    • Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
  • John - Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions
    • Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
    • Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
    • Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
    • Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches

April 2, 2014 - Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Dani - new GTK3+ issues
    • crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX (bug 431330)
    • problems with main menu (bug 419830)
  • Dani - Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work
    • Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
  • Dani - need to approve API changes for Java 8 in M7
    • No API changes, only additions
    • Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
    • ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
    • There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
  • John - SWT over JavaFX
    • EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
    • Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
    • Relationship to Tom Schindl's e(fx)clipse project ?
      • e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
      • Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
      • Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in bug 426243
      • Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
        • It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
        • John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
      • Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX


March 26, 2014 - John, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • John - EclipseCon Update
    • Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
    • IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
    • Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
    • Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
    • See also Blog Posts from Doug Schaefer and Ian Bull as well as top 5 from Ian
  • John - ARM port of GTK - any tracking items ?
    • Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
    • IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
    • Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
    • Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
      • Example: bug 430698, bug 429237, bug 415757; bug 419855 talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
      • Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
      • Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
        • Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
        • Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
  • Alex - Java 8 vs Java 7 currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
    • In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
    • ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is bug 390889 and we'll try to fix it for M7.

March 19, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • McQ - Congrats on Java 8 Release to coincide with the Oracle release
  • Dani - Windows 8 Support - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
    • McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
    • Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
    • Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation

March 12, 2014 - Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • GTK - SWT team discussions
  • John - preparing for Java 8 release

March 5, 2014 - John, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
  • Dani: Windows 8 Support
    • Not listed in official plan
    • No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
    • Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
    • Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
    • AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
      • Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
  • Dani: State of GTK 3+
    • Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
    • Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
    • Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
    • Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
    • On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
    • Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
  • Alex: GTK 3 in Mars
    • Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
    • RHEL 5 would no longer work
    • Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI

February 26, 2014 - Alex, John, Martin, McQ

  • John: Orion Release this week
  • Alex: Eclipse on ARM64
    • Launcher and swt at first
    • Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
    • John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
      • Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
      • At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
    • Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
  • Dani: Update on GTK 3+ issue - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
    • Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
    • McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
      • If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
      • Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
      • Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it


February 19, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin, John

  • Dani: Silenio to work on GTK issue?
  • John: GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation
  • John: e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools
    • Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
    • Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
    • Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
    • John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
    • Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
      • If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
    • Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE

February 5, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Confcall Numbers: Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
  • Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
  • Alex: Testing on modern Linux

January 22, 2014 - John, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • John, Alex: New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora
    • Alex been looking at Browser
    • Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
    • Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
      • Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
      • Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
  • Dani: M5 Status
    • Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier

January 15, 2014 - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin

  • Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
  • Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion

January 8, 2014 - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ

  • Dani: API Freeze with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception

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