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= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
'''September 14, 2011:''' - John, McQ, Dani, Martin
 
* Martin: '''PMC membership''' - still looking for people to ask after Steve and Jeff left
 
* John: '''Jetty 8''' - should be using Jetty from Eclipse (Jetty 7 ist stable, Jetty 8 is current) but API changes after Jetty 6
 
** eg standalone help - AI John to ping Chris G;
 
** No longer re-exporting Jetty API since 3.6 (deprecated api, introduced replacements)
 
** releng, would need Jetty at -1 if using current from train .. makes builds a bit more messy again
 
** check with Equinox
 
  
'''September 7, 2011:''' - John, McQ
+
 
* State of building Juno at eclipse.org: we are close but still some issues with the tests. Transition to Git halted our progress on this. Once the Git migration is complete, we should just make the switch over and live with the pain of some failing tests. Component teams will need to help with diagnosing problems with their tests.
+
'''September 17, 2014''' - no meeting
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 31, 2011:''' - Dani, John
+
'''September 10, 2014''' - John, Martin, Alex, Dani
 +
* John: Mars having some build hickups due to removing Mac 32-bit builds
 +
* John: Luna SR1 - almost done, respinning for 2 bugs in Equinox
 +
* John: Cloud TLP (for Orion and others) - still on track for announcing end October
 +
* Alex: Been busy with other stuff recently, back on the GTK version support discussion this week
 +
** Martin: Many people will know what distro they have (or need), but not what GTK they have on there
 +
*** John: Also running GTK on AIX, Solaris, Linux Power and other which are not moving up that fast...
 +
*** Martin: Examples: RHEL 5.8 was GTK 2.10.4-21 ; RHEL 4.5 was at GTK 2.4.13-22
 +
*** Popular distros would be Ubuntu LTS, RHEL, OpenSUSE
 +
** Alex: Newer distros have up to 3 GTK versions installed, along with some means to switch between them, it's very confusing
 +
** Eclipse is the only project that dynamically loads DLL's and tries to support a broad range ... others typically compile against a specific version
 +
*** Most projects require GTK 2.24
 +
** John: GTK versions are not really predictable ... between 3.04 and 3.10 there was a breaking change
 +
** Alex: In every release there are small issues that we work around; and there's certain releases that are breaking stuff
 +
** '''NEXT ACTION: Send E-Mail'''
  
* We need to pull the new ICU4J out of maintenance release because the fix didn't pass review in time. We will defer to Indigo SR2
+
<hr/>
* Some discussion of the treatment of tags in Git vs CVS. Committers need to be aware they can't checkout the contents of a particular build into their workspace all at once.
+
'''September 3, 2014''' - John, Alex, Dani
 +
* Dani: away next week and on/off the next two weeks due to travel
 +
* Dani: RC4 next week. PMC please watch the PMC mailing list
 +
** John: will be available and monitor the mailing list
 +
* Dani: Oracle interested in providing access to a Solaris 64-bit machine {{bug|442266}}
 +
* John: How/where to graduate the e4 tools
 +
** the community wants to graduate this out of incubation
 +
** initially proposed to create a separate project, but feels like adding too much overhead
 +
** John: proposed PDE as home, then Dani suggested to use Platform UI
 +
** Alex, Dani and John agree to suggest Platform UI as home for the e4 tools.
 +
** John to send a note to Lars
 +
* Alex: Limit supported number of GTK+ versions
 +
** SWT currently has to support over 20 different version. This doesn't scale.
 +
** Proposal: Bump min supported version with one minor release each release. Aka Luna has Gtk 2.10 as min, Mars would have 2.12 as min. Can consider even two minor releases (Mars requires 2.14) as this would keep the amount of supported versions the same as GTK releases one minor release every 6 months.
 +
** Dani, John: this is too limiting. We tended to support the most possible. Newest versions might have too many bugs.
 +
** All agree: we'd like to limit the amount of supported versions
 +
** Alex to cast a poll via Eclipse Foundation, which versions are used by users and companies
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
'''August 24, 2011:''' - Dani, John
+
'''August 27, 2014''' - cancelled
* EGit is far behind on level of polish, usability, robustness, conforming to UI guidelines, etc. We may need to make contributions to avoid it hurting productivity
+
* Proposed workflow changes in bugzilla 4.0: {{bug|337245}}. Proposing removing NEW, ASSIGNED and CLOSED states which would lose valuable information for us.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
  
'''August 10, 2011:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''August 20, 2014''' - John, Alex, Dani
* Dani / Martin - '''Debug Flexible Hierarchy "provisional.api" namespace'''
+
* Dani: new platform PowerPC 64-bit LE {{bug|441358 }}
** Cannot be moved into an "API" namespace without breaking external non-SDK clients since types are leaked from internal packages
+
** maintained by IBM
** Q1: Move framework to a place outside Debug?
+
** will be added to 4.4.1 as early access
** Q2: Declare "internal" packages as API? - API Tools won't be usable
+
** Dani to send a note to cross-platform
** McQ: Is it really impossible to add new API in parallel while keeping the old one in place for now?
+
* Dani: individual made patches to support Solaris 64-bit {{bug|442266}}
*** Issues: (1) Performance, (2) bugs due to delegating, (3) is it worth doing that work? CDT already marked x-friends - Debug could offer the same for other clients.
+
** we'd like to add it but don't have a machine to support it
** McQ: Do we anticipate a huge Community out there just waiting for stuff to become full API? Then it's probably worth it...
+
** important because our current 32-bit Solaris build will become obselete since there's no 32-bit JRE for Java 7 and beyond
*** But at this point any potential consumers already consume, so it's likely not worth the pain of renaming
+
** Oracle should be interested since they provide both, Java and Solaris
*** Dani's suggestion: Go into a separate bundle and re-export, such that clients don't need debug
+
** Dani to ask Oracle
** John: Unless packages were intended to be API from the beginning, it's likely not API quality (that's likely also why Boris didn't want it in Jface)
+
** Martin: Would really want to see namespace refactored... quality standards..
+
** John: Had the experience in p2, it was much more than just package renaming
+
*** Very painful for user community, but in the end produced a much better results (but p2 was very young at that time)
+
** McQ: Can we provide backward compatible versions in parallel to the new namespace? We CANNOT break consumers.
+
*** Renaming only makes sense if mirroring/proxying is possible.
+
*** Lots of consumers in the old form, how many new consumers would we gain in the new form?
+
** Martin: Create a fork / clone on the UI side for new consumers, as real API?
+
*** McQ: Only makes sense if there's a community just waiting to pick this up.
+
*** Dani: Debug itself could not move to the new framework without breaking clients ... so we'd not have any clients inside the SDK
+
** McQ: It's non-trivial work, and before starting it we'd need to verify there's consumers for it
+
** Learnings from the past: Not keep stuff in provisional for so long any more
+
** Resolution: '''Pawel to find consumers for a refactored new bundle, then decide if / how to do the work'''
+
* Dani: '''Java 7 - Segfault due to loop optimizations''' ([http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/08/java7-hotspot details])
+
** Occurs a lot inside Apache Lucene, how to communicate that?
+
** McQ: send to eclipse-dev and cross-project
+
** Oracle aware of the issue - working on an early refresh, workaround exists (disable loop optimizations via -XX:-UseLoopPredicate)
+
** Another JIT bug was fixed by Oracle before GA because we reported it
+
** AI Dani '''Talk to Oracle when an update can be expected, soon send a message to eclipse-dev / cross-project'''
+
* Vacation notices:
+
** Martin: away from August 14 to September 1
+
** McQ: away from August 22 to September 5
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 3, 2011:''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
 
* Dani - successfully moved Java 7 support to 3.7.1, 3.8, 4.1.1 and 4.2 streams
 
  
 +
'''August 13, 2014''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
 +
* Dani: Any feedback for the [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_5.xml Mars plan]?
 +
** McQ:
 +
*** It does not cover Orion, but that is OK and like in previous release plans. Orion will most likely be moved to another top-level project soon.
 +
*** We want to remove Mac OS X Universal 32-bit (all agreed)
 +
* Dani: How to deal with requests to push our bundles to repo.eclipse.org {{bug|441530}}
 +
** Dani: OK for me but we won't do the work
 +
** Alex: Maven needs the dependencies in the pom.xml. We don't want copy them from the manifest into the pom.xml and then maintain this. The pom should be updated when publishing the file into the Maven repo. Ideally by an automated task.
 +
** Conclusion: all agree with this, i.e. we won't do the actual work and we won't "pollute" our pom files.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 27, 2011:''' - Dani, John, McQ
+
'''August 6, 2014''' - McQ, Dani
* Discussed how many versions back PDE should support development on. Historically we used N-2 but currently it is N-7. The layers of compatibility are starting to become hard to manage. We agreed dropping support for versions prior to 3.6 is ok if there is a benefit in doing so (cleans up PDE, makes the situation less confusing for end user, etc). However PDE must handle existing plugins with old version numbers in the plugin.xml (possibly with a warning and a quick fix to update/remove the number).
+
* Dani: Will provide initial Mars plan next week
* We have some rough days ahead: first release train milestone on 4.x, ongoing build pain from Git migration, merge of Java 7 into mainline, and lots of people on holidays. Hold onto your hats!
+
  
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 20, 2011:''' - Dani, Martin, John, Jeff
+
'''No meetings in July'''
* Dani - '''p2 Installer {{bug|317785}}''' affects Java 7 users - when they want to update it looks like they are dead
+
** Regression test only fails once every 100 times .. might be more often in the wild
+
** Might need some note on the download page (clickthrough) - people dont read the readme
+
* John - '''git migration''' - parts from git / parts from CVS isn't that bad for now
+
  
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 13, 2011:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin
+
'''Jun 4, 2014''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex
* Want more Community involvement in the Eclipse PMC - "outside representation" in addition to companies with a commercial interest
+
* Dani: '''RC4 Status''' looking good
* nice Java 7 webcast last week - Mike Milinkovich mentions our Eclipse Java 7 Support (BETA)
+
** 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
 +
** Rest of the team working on docs
 +
** Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
 +
* John: '''Went over the N&N''' ... number of things went in after M7 :)
 +
** Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way
  
<hr/>
 
'''July 6, 2011:''' - John, Dani, Martin
 
* Dani - on track with Java 7 work; Oracle interested in having good Eclipse support
 
* git migration - Platform UI likely going to move this week
 
** Paul has a tool for gathering build notes from git (currently a commandline script)
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 15, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Jeff
+
'''Jun 11, 2014''' - Martin, McQ, Alex, John
* John - '''git migration''': should egit be part of the SDK ?
+
* John: Eclipse Theming: When switching the OS Theme to dark, Eclipse should be aware
** Build-time circular dependencies. Keep SDK small, but make it a very simple and obvious step to obtain egit.
+
** Dark Theme is currently a tech preview
** It's already easy to update - milestone to mileston SDK update is a single step for SDK + egit.
+
* John - '''git migration''' and the mapfiles
+
** In orion, just tag HEAD of the build branch
+
** Dani: need to make sure that build notes can still be created
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''June 1, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani
 
* Some discussion of proposed Eclipse Foundation security policy
 
* We still want to see the disclosure time-frame being 3 months after the release containing the fix. Not all of our consumer community has the build technology or expertise to apply source patches to their products. Making sure the fix is in a maintenance release is the only practical way for some people to consume fixes
 
* It would be nice for critical security fixes to appear in the simultaneous release repository even after the SR2 time period. p2 would need some small amount of work to be able to flag critical/security patches and automatically notify the user about them being available. Nobody has signed up to do this work.
 
* Some discussion of Git migration. There is no need to move everything at once since our build can handle homogeneous inputs from both CVS and Git. One possibility is migrating Equinox as a first step. The most complicated piece is migrating the repository containing the builder itself. We will need to decide on where map files and documentation go: likely some kind of "common" repository for Eclipse TLP.
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 25, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
'''Jun 4, 2014''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex
* Missing CQ's for old legacy stuff in old update sites / repos
+
* Dani: '''RC4 Status''' looking good
** No problem for ZIP's (we can move to archive)
+
** 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
** OK with removing some legacy old stuff... How many years back to keep old stuff?
+
** Rest of the team working on docs
* Java 7 and 3.7.1
+
** Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
** Mike M OK with including in 3.7.1 (when it's stable enough)
+
* John: '''Went over the N&N''' ... number of things went in after M7 :)
 +
** Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 4, 2011:''' - Jeff, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''May 28, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
 +
* Dani: '''EOL'ing the Delta Pack''' - announce now, remove during Mars - it's been obsoleted by p2 functionality
 +
** Alex: Some of the test suite relied on the delta pack, it caused issues, OK with removing (PDE tests would need to be cleaned up)
 +
* Dani: '''Copyright Updates''' - tool is very slow since not ported from CVS properly, can run for hours
 +
** John: Worth doing periodically but probably won't matter legally since copyright lasts for 7 years
 +
** The change is not without risk (Dani: Could schedule after the release)
 +
** McQ: Should consider updating the tool as part of that work
 +
** Alex: Has a new intern, could use this as an opportunity to join
 +
* Dani: '''RC3 status''' - last planned build - looking good, except for Platform UI, where the list of bugs is still long
 +
* McQ: Discussions about a new Eclipse.org Web-based Toplevel Project
  
* RC1 test pass went well overall
 
* Investigating an SWT blocker preventing checkbox tables from working
 
* There is a problem with the Ant mail task with Ant 1.8. Ant mail requires an optional extra jar to be added. In Ant 1.7 this didn't cause build to fail, but in Ant 1.8 it does. Our conclusion was to document in the migration guide but take no other action.
 
* Git migration:
 
** Kim and DJ are investigating migration of the build to Git. Making progress but don't have a full build working yet
 
** We should consider summer 2011 for migration. For those teams with forked code between 3.x/4.x, they are finding it difficult to keep fixes in sync and potentially git can help with that.
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 27, 2011:''' - Jeff, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''May 14, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
* Dani '''still 100 bugs tagged 3.7''' - need to remind in the archcall to properly tag target milestones
+
* Alex: SWT GTK3 and the Endgame Rules
* John '''EDL for Examples'''
+
* Dani: Luna Plan Update
** Value of examples is they're there to be used - there's no business value in holding on to IP via Copyright so EDL seems right
+
* John: New Dashboard created by the EMO
** Re-licensing existing examples is difficult (eg SWT examples); but new examples should go under EDL
+
** Including examples in distributed features must take care of fixing abouts
+
* John '''3.7 plan final update''': all plan items committed or deferred; update to RH6
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 20, 2011:''' - Jeff, Dani, Martin, McQ, John
+
'''May 7, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, John, Martin
* Jeff,Martin '''Builds at Eclipse''' - Work ongoing. IBM Mac has been donated. Mac testing has problems with some weird vnc bug
+
* Martin {{bug|241957}} - GTK clipboard hang
** Martin - could kick a 3.6.2+ build and artifacts OK, but confused by lots of warning messages. Kim responded immediately, but can this be made "more official" ?
+
** Alex: GTK guys recommended using the async API, but no time for more investigation
** Public Builds - get the engineering underpinnings in place, then polish afterwards
+
** McQ: Switching a sync API to async implementation underneath can be extremely messy (need to be aware of all possible events and event sources...)
** Won't get a lot better in 3.7 but could make it a plan item for 3.8
+
** McQ: If there is an idea canceling the clipboard wait ... given that the issue occurs only rarely, even a hacky solution is better than nothing
** John agrees that improving the warning messages to be more informative is a good thing - Kim's very helpful
+
* Dani: will do a plan update, hopefully this week
* Dani '''Polish Bug to be prioritized''': {{bug|342648}} In SWT on Linux, RTL mode, Tree.getItem(Point) gives invalid result.
+
** Regression ?
+
** McQ: Every GTK version needs work - maybe it's specific to a new GTK; might be more than a P2
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 13, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani, Jeff
+
'''April 30, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
* John: reminder to review proposed project charter update
+
* McQ: '''WB4 perspective customization''' - has it caused any issues ?
* Freeze plan for Indigo is ready
+
** Martin: Dealing with detached views works differently (dragging a window fails - must drag the tab inside the window)
* Reviewed new polish items
+
** Dani: Saved perspectives / windows are lost on an existing workspace when moving from 3.x to 4.x
* Investigating some 4.1 compatibility problems, possibly related to EMF changes
+
*** Martin/McQ: When crossing the major version boundary, it is OK to lose state - it's not nice but acceptable
 +
** Dani: The bigger problem is, that the whole "Perspective customization" dialog is still not working as expected
 +
*** Martin: Agree with the concern, but the Perspective customization dialog wasn't ever great
 +
*** McQ: If invest work here, rather make it good than bring back the previous status quo
 +
*** Martin: Most customization done via plugin.xml / Java , don't expect end users to do a lot of customization themselves
 +
* Dani: '''M7 status'''
 +
** Defect triage under control - some items deferred to 4.5
 +
 
 +
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''April 23, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin
 +
* Alex - GTK2 or GTK3 as default - GTK3 it is
 +
** GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to
 +
*** xulrunner - latest version not supported by swt and latest distros don't even ship standalone xulrunner
 +
*** webkitgtk - gtk2 version in maintenance mode, upstream consider dropping, really crashy See [https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-gtk/2014-March/001821.html]
 +
** GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
 +
** McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
 +
* Dani - '''Freeze Plan created'''
 +
* John - '''Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret'''
 +
*
  
'''March 30, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani
 
* Discussed and clarified the API approval guidelines. Will be announced in the arch call.
 
* Dani - Java 7 deferred from 3.7. GA planned together with 3.7.1.
 
** John: is feature work which might need review
 
* John - we need to prepare the Git migration
 
** John to ask DJ to do investigations
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''April 16, 2014''' - Dani, Alex
 +
* no topics today
  
'''March 23, 2011:''' - McQ, Dani
 
* Prioritized the [[Polish3.7]] list. This is a recurring task for the next few weeks.
 
* Discussed and agreed on API change approval process, see [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg01368.html PMC mailing list note].
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''April 9, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
 +
* Dani - '''Kepler SR2 and Java 8'''
 +
** Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
 +
** Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
 +
** Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
 +
** Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
  
'''March 9, 2011:''' - John, McQ
+
* John - '''Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions'''
 
+
** Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
* Ongoing discussion of direction for 2012 release train. Will continue discussion in email to ensure all PMC members are involved.
+
** Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
 +
** Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
 +
** Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 2, 2011:'''
 
* McQ - Migrating to 4.x. Don't be disruptive when there is no need to. Want to avoid migration pain.
 
** New feature work will be in 4.x, but as long as there are committers working on 3.x it will stay alive
 
** Make sure that quality keeps up: Releng / Build, make long-term committers continue reviewing contributions
 
** Problem with 4.x is just the bugs (impeding productivity), it's not anything architectural
 
** '''Convene again next week and come up with a consistent message''', AI McQ get hold of Jeff for a statement
 
* John - '''3.6.2+ builds''' set up on Hudson now
 
** Kim's {{bug|338557}} Job's mostly ready, Martin is the first tester. Should inform the Community once things go smoothly
 
** Updating version numbers like going to a virtual never-existing "3.6.3" release in order to give a clear and consistent message
 
** Dani has an (internal) document - Martin: interested for TM and CDT projects - '''AI Dani''' send Doc to Martin for for meeting notes
 
** Always updating the micro by one only ... so if bundle was not updated in Helios SR1 or SR2, it should go .1 in 3.6.2+
 
  
'''February 23, 2011:'''
+
'''April 2, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
* Martin - '''3.6.2+ M-Builds post 3.6.2''' - needed for adopters to get 3.6.2+ bundles signed; on demand only? If scheduled, how often?
+
* Dani - new GTK3+ issues
 +
** crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX ({{bug|431330}})
 +
** problems with main menu ({{bug|419830}})
 +
* Dani - '''Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work'''
 +
** Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
 +
* Dani - need to '''approve API changes for Java 8 in M7'''
 +
** No API changes, only additions
 +
** Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
 +
** ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
 +
** There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
 +
* John - '''SWT over JavaFX'''
 +
** EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
 +
** Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
 +
** Relationship to Tom Schindl's [http://www.eclipse.org/efxclipse/index.html e(fx)clipse project] ?
 +
*** e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
 +
*** Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
 +
*** Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in {{bug|426243}}
 +
*** Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
 +
**** It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
 +
**** John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
 +
*** Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX
 +
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 16, 2011:'''
+
'''March 26, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
 +
* John - '''EclipseCon Update'''
 +
** Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
 +
** IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
 +
** Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
 +
** Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
 +
** See also Blog Posts from [http://cdtdoug.ca/ Doug Schaefer] and [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/author/irbull/ Ian Bull] as well as [https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2014/news/top-5-ian-bull top 5 from Ian]
 +
* John - '''ARM port of GTK''' - any tracking items ?
 +
** Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
 +
** IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
 +
** Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
 +
** Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
 +
*** Example: {{bug|430698}}, {{bug|429237}}, {{bug|415757}}; {{bug|419855}} talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
 +
*** Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
 +
*** Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
 +
**** Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
 +
**** Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
 +
* Alex - '''Java 8 vs Java 7''' currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
 +
** In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
 +
** ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is {{bug|390889}} and we'll try to fix it for M7.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 9, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
'''March 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
* Dani - '''Builder bug''':  Theoretically, the builder bug can cause bad binaries shipped from Eclipse.org
+
* McQ - '''Congrats on Java 8 Release''' to coincide with the Oracle release
** But switching the builder now could have other consequences. Most people likely use the 3.6.0 or 3.6.1 builder
+
* Dani - '''Windows 8 Support''' - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
** Platform uses the 3.6.1 builder. Bug appeared in 3.6.0
+
** McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
** McQ thinks we should recommend using the new builder - John: can never know whether a problematic code construct is there or not
+
** Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
** Provide a patched version of the 3.6.1 basebuilder as an option for people to use - '''AI John''' ask Kim to re-produce a new basebuilder, then respin RC4
+
** Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation
* McQ - '''Builds at Eclipse.org'''
+
** IBM Ottawa consolidating 7 offices into 2, plan to not have a build lab
+
** Kim still frustrated with Foundation facilities; McQ talked to people both inside IBM and the Foundation
+
  
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''March 12, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, McQ, John
 +
* GTK - SWT team discussions
 +
* John - '''preparing for Java 8 release'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''February 2, 2011:''' - Canceled (no topics)
+
'''March 5, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit''' - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
 +
* Dani: '''Windows 8 Support'''
 +
** Not listed in official plan
 +
** No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
 +
** Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
 +
** Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
 +
** AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
 +
*** Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
 +
* Dani: '''State of GTK 3+'''
 +
** Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
 +
** Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
 +
** Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
 +
** Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
 +
** On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
 +
** Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
 +
* Alex: '''GTK 3 in Mars'''
 +
** Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
 +
** RHEL 5 would no longer work
 +
** Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI
 +
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''February 26, 2014''' - Alex, John, Martin, McQ
 +
* John: '''Orion Release''' this week
 +
 +
* Alex: '''Eclipse on ARM64'''
 +
** Launcher and swt at first
 +
** Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
 +
** John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
 +
*** Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
 +
*** At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
 +
** Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
 +
 +
* Dani: Update on '''GTK 3+ issue''' - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
 +
** Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
 +
** McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
 +
*** If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
 +
*** Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
 +
*** Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it
  
'''January 26, 2011:''' - Dani, John, Martin,
 
* Dani: {{bug|330534}} '''ObjectTeams Contribution''' - JDT might allow using their namespace as an exception, couple p2 bugs pending
 
** If the p2 solution cannot be done, OT/J will need to remain off the train
 
* Martin: Concerned about '''Eclipse 3.x quality''', many regressions and not being addressed
 
** {{bug|320329}} ThreadJob#waitForRun can spin when blockingJob is not RUNNING
 
*** '''Platform Runtime: Regression''' introduced in 3.6, can have severe Performance impact, reported 10-Jul, commenters unsure about approach to fix
 
*** A buggy contribution was accepted, and then the contributor left
 
*** John spent a lot of time.. there was a fix that didn't work
 
*** Dani: Could the contribution be pulled out? - No because it's new API (yield())
 
*** Contributor was quite good originally but then just switched teams and was no longer available
 
*** The new testcase from Markus Schorn might help narrowing down the case quickly
 
** {{bug|335153}} Regression: p2 downloads are much slower due to picking remote artifacts even when a local file: URL is available
 
*** '''p2: Regression''' introduced in 3.6, reported 24-Jan, testcase + patch attached, response pending
 
** {{bug|332840}} Wrong error about API change (Regression; works with 3.7M3)
 
*** '''API Tooling: Regression''' introduced in 3.7M4, reported 17-Dec, Olivier:  "I'll take a look" but no response since
 
** {{bug|332838}} Bogus potential null pointer access warning (regression; works with 3.6)
 
*** '''JDT: Regression''' introduced in 3.7M4, reported 17-Dec, Ayushman: "I'll investigate" but no response since
 
** {{bug|332507}} [regression] incomplete build path reported on o.e.rse.subsystem.shells.local
 
*** '''PDE UI: Regression''' introduced in 3.7M4, reported 14-Dec, initial traffic but no followup since 16-Dec
 
** {{bug|335466}} Regression: category.xml processing fails when "name" contains special chars
 
*** Just detected recently
 
** {{bug|313899}} [Progress] Every user-job causes a busy cursor to be shown for a minimum of 250ms
 
*** '''Platform UI''': Patch provided on 21-May, no response whatsoever from Platform UI
 
** John: There had been a fair bit of turnover, new committers getting up to speed ... having less experienced people is a fact
 
*** Identifying key bugs in the big bug database takes a lot of experience
 
** Dani: M5 is the Major feature freeze, so new feature / API work has highest priority ... so quality drop is somewhat expected in M5
 
** Even for regressions... if the regression is less critical than new bugs, it goes behind
 
** '''RESOLUTION:''' Make the important bugs visible to the component leads or PMC. It's natural that we sometimes need to ping on a bug. M5 is a problematic time.
 
* John: {{bug|335374}} '''Redhat 6 as a Reference Platform'''
 
** SWT team doing some final testing, then will put only RH6 on the Ref Platform list
 
* John: '''OpenJDK as a Reference Platform''' - Oracle is interested and might contribute testing
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
''' January 19, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Jeff, Dani, Martin
+
'''February 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
* Jeff will be unavailable for meeting next 6-7 weeks
+
* Dani: '''Silenio to work on GTK issue?'''
* John: How do we interpret "under the direction of the PMC" in [http://www.eclipse.org/legal/EclipseLegalProcessPoster.pdf Eclipse legal process]?
+
* John: '''GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation'''
** McQ: Not about approval, but about PMC being aware
+
* John: '''e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools'''
** Jeff: Goal is to indicate "Working with an Eclipse mindset", ie in close collaboration with a committer ... contributor must be aware of IP due diligence guidelines from the beginning of evolution of the code. We want to avoid introducing IP leaks by accepting legacy code that was written before assuming an Eclipse mindset.
+
** Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
** McQ: This is about understanding the direction of Eclipse as a whole. Request a PMC +1 on the bug as work is being started. PMC should work with committer to ensure that contributor has been instructed about IP rules.
+
** Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
 +
** Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
 +
** John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
 +
** Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
 +
*** If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
 +
** Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
''' January 12, 2011:''' -  
+
'''February 5, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''Confcall Numbers:''' Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
 +
* Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
 +
* Alex: Testing on modern Linux
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
''' January 5, 2011:''' - McQ, John, Dani, Jeff, Martin
+
'''January 22, 2014''' - John, Dani, Alex, Martin
* Dani: Component Lead progress? - Portal still doesn't have the correct list of components
+
* John, Alex: '''New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora'''
 +
** Alex been looking at Browser
 +
** Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
 +
** Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
 +
*** Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
 +
*** Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
 +
* Dani: '''M5 Status'''
 +
** Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier
 +
 
 +
<hr/>
 +
'''January 15, 2014''' - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin
 +
* Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
 +
* Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion
 +
 
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''January 8, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ
 +
* Dani: '''API Freeze''' with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Revision as of 05:42, 18 September 2014

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every wednesday at 10.30am EST.

Meeting Minutes

September 17, 2014 - no meeting


September 10, 2014 - John, Martin, Alex, Dani

  • John: Mars having some build hickups due to removing Mac 32-bit builds
  • John: Luna SR1 - almost done, respinning for 2 bugs in Equinox
  • John: Cloud TLP (for Orion and others) - still on track for announcing end October
  • Alex: Been busy with other stuff recently, back on the GTK version support discussion this week
    • Martin: Many people will know what distro they have (or need), but not what GTK they have on there
      • John: Also running GTK on AIX, Solaris, Linux Power and other which are not moving up that fast...
      • Martin: Examples: RHEL 5.8 was GTK 2.10.4-21 ; RHEL 4.5 was at GTK 2.4.13-22
      • Popular distros would be Ubuntu LTS, RHEL, OpenSUSE
    • Alex: Newer distros have up to 3 GTK versions installed, along with some means to switch between them, it's very confusing
    • Eclipse is the only project that dynamically loads DLL's and tries to support a broad range ... others typically compile against a specific version
      • Most projects require GTK 2.24
    • John: GTK versions are not really predictable ... between 3.04 and 3.10 there was a breaking change
    • Alex: In every release there are small issues that we work around; and there's certain releases that are breaking stuff
    • NEXT ACTION: Send E-Mail

September 3, 2014 - John, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: away next week and on/off the next two weeks due to travel
  • Dani: RC4 next week. PMC please watch the PMC mailing list
    • John: will be available and monitor the mailing list
  • Dani: Oracle interested in providing access to a Solaris 64-bit machine bug 442266
  • John: How/where to graduate the e4 tools
    • the community wants to graduate this out of incubation
    • initially proposed to create a separate project, but feels like adding too much overhead
    • John: proposed PDE as home, then Dani suggested to use Platform UI
    • Alex, Dani and John agree to suggest Platform UI as home for the e4 tools.
    • John to send a note to Lars
  • Alex: Limit supported number of GTK+ versions
    • SWT currently has to support over 20 different version. This doesn't scale.
    • Proposal: Bump min supported version with one minor release each release. Aka Luna has Gtk 2.10 as min, Mars would have 2.12 as min. Can consider even two minor releases (Mars requires 2.14) as this would keep the amount of supported versions the same as GTK releases one minor release every 6 months.
    • Dani, John: this is too limiting. We tended to support the most possible. Newest versions might have too many bugs.
    • All agree: we'd like to limit the amount of supported versions
    • Alex to cast a poll via Eclipse Foundation, which versions are used by users and companies

August 27, 2014 - cancelled


August 20, 2014 - John, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: new platform PowerPC 64-bit LE bug 441358
    • maintained by IBM
    • will be added to 4.4.1 as early access
    • Dani to send a note to cross-platform
  • Dani: individual made patches to support Solaris 64-bit bug 442266
    • we'd like to add it but don't have a machine to support it
    • important because our current 32-bit Solaris build will become obselete since there's no 32-bit JRE for Java 7 and beyond
    • Oracle should be interested since they provide both, Java and Solaris
    • Dani to ask Oracle

August 13, 2014 - McQ, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Any feedback for the Mars plan?
    • McQ:
      • It does not cover Orion, but that is OK and like in previous release plans. Orion will most likely be moved to another top-level project soon.
      • We want to remove Mac OS X Universal 32-bit (all agreed)
  • Dani: How to deal with requests to push our bundles to repo.eclipse.org bug 441530
    • Dani: OK for me but we won't do the work
    • Alex: Maven needs the dependencies in the pom.xml. We don't want copy them from the manifest into the pom.xml and then maintain this. The pom should be updated when publishing the file into the Maven repo. Ideally by an automated task.
    • Conclusion: all agree with this, i.e. we won't do the actual work and we won't "pollute" our pom files.

August 6, 2014 - McQ, Dani

  • Dani: Will provide initial Mars plan next week



No meetings in July



Jun 4, 2014 - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: RC4 Status looking good
    • 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
    • Rest of the team working on docs
    • Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
  • John: Went over the N&N ... number of things went in after M7 :)
    • Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way



Jun 11, 2014 - Martin, McQ, Alex, John

  • John: Eclipse Theming: When switching the OS Theme to dark, Eclipse should be aware
    • Dark Theme is currently a tech preview



Jun 4, 2014 - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: RC4 Status looking good
    • 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
    • Rest of the team working on docs
    • Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
  • John: Went over the N&N ... number of things went in after M7 :)
    • Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way



May 28, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: EOL'ing the Delta Pack - announce now, remove during Mars - it's been obsoleted by p2 functionality
    • Alex: Some of the test suite relied on the delta pack, it caused issues, OK with removing (PDE tests would need to be cleaned up)
  • Dani: Copyright Updates - tool is very slow since not ported from CVS properly, can run for hours
    • John: Worth doing periodically but probably won't matter legally since copyright lasts for 7 years
    • The change is not without risk (Dani: Could schedule after the release)
    • McQ: Should consider updating the tool as part of that work
    • Alex: Has a new intern, could use this as an opportunity to join
  • Dani: RC3 status - last planned build - looking good, except for Platform UI, where the list of bugs is still long
  • McQ: Discussions about a new Eclipse.org Web-based Toplevel Project



May 14, 2014 - Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Alex: SWT GTK3 and the Endgame Rules
  • Dani: Luna Plan Update
  • John: New Dashboard created by the EMO

May 7, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Martin bug 241957 - GTK clipboard hang
    • Alex: GTK guys recommended using the async API, but no time for more investigation
    • McQ: Switching a sync API to async implementation underneath can be extremely messy (need to be aware of all possible events and event sources...)
    • McQ: If there is an idea canceling the clipboard wait ... given that the issue occurs only rarely, even a hacky solution is better than nothing
  • Dani: will do a plan update, hopefully this week

April 30, 2014 - Dani, Martin, McQ

  • McQ: WB4 perspective customization - has it caused any issues ?
    • Martin: Dealing with detached views works differently (dragging a window fails - must drag the tab inside the window)
    • Dani: Saved perspectives / windows are lost on an existing workspace when moving from 3.x to 4.x
      • Martin/McQ: When crossing the major version boundary, it is OK to lose state - it's not nice but acceptable
    • Dani: The bigger problem is, that the whole "Perspective customization" dialog is still not working as expected
      • Martin: Agree with the concern, but the Perspective customization dialog wasn't ever great
      • McQ: If invest work here, rather make it good than bring back the previous status quo
      • Martin: Most customization done via plugin.xml / Java , don't expect end users to do a lot of customization themselves
  • Dani: M7 status
    • Defect triage under control - some items deferred to 4.5



April 23, 2014 - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin

  • Alex - GTK2 or GTK3 as default - GTK3 it is
    • GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to
      • xulrunner - latest version not supported by swt and latest distros don't even ship standalone xulrunner
      • webkitgtk - gtk2 version in maintenance mode, upstream consider dropping, really crashy See [1]
    • GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
    • McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
  • Dani - Freeze Plan created
  • John - Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret

April 16, 2014 - Dani, Alex

  • no topics today

April 9, 2014 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani - Kepler SR2 and Java 8
    • Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
    • Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
    • Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
    • Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
  • John - Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions
    • Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
    • Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
    • Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
    • Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches

April 2, 2014 - Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Dani - new GTK3+ issues
    • crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX (bug 431330)
    • problems with main menu (bug 419830)
  • Dani - Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work
    • Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
  • Dani - need to approve API changes for Java 8 in M7
    • No API changes, only additions
    • Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
    • ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
    • There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
  • John - SWT over JavaFX
    • EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
    • Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
    • Relationship to Tom Schindl's e(fx)clipse project ?
      • e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
      • Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
      • Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in bug 426243
      • Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
        • It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
        • John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
      • Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX



March 26, 2014 - John, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • John - EclipseCon Update
    • Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
    • IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
    • Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
    • Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
    • See also Blog Posts from Doug Schaefer and Ian Bull as well as top 5 from Ian
  • John - ARM port of GTK - any tracking items ?
    • Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
    • IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
    • Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
    • Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
      • Example: bug 430698, bug 429237, bug 415757; bug 419855 talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
      • Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
      • Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
        • Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
        • Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
  • Alex - Java 8 vs Java 7 currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
    • In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
    • ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is bug 390889 and we'll try to fix it for M7.

March 19, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • McQ - Congrats on Java 8 Release to coincide with the Oracle release
  • Dani - Windows 8 Support - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
    • McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
    • Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
    • Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation

March 12, 2014 - Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • GTK - SWT team discussions
  • John - preparing for Java 8 release

March 5, 2014 - John, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
  • Dani: Windows 8 Support
    • Not listed in official plan
    • No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
    • Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
    • Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
    • AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
      • Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
  • Dani: State of GTK 3+
    • Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
    • Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
    • Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
    • Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
    • On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
    • Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
  • Alex: GTK 3 in Mars
    • Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
    • RHEL 5 would no longer work
    • Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI

February 26, 2014 - Alex, John, Martin, McQ

  • John: Orion Release this week
  • Alex: Eclipse on ARM64
    • Launcher and swt at first
    • Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
    • John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
      • Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
      • At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
    • Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
  • Dani: Update on GTK 3+ issue - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
    • Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
    • McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
      • If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
      • Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
      • Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it



February 19, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin, John

  • Dani: Silenio to work on GTK issue?
  • John: GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation
  • John: e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools
    • Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
    • Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
    • Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
    • John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
    • Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
      • If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
    • Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE

February 5, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Confcall Numbers: Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
  • Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
  • Alex: Testing on modern Linux

January 22, 2014 - John, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • John, Alex: New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora
    • Alex been looking at Browser
    • Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
    • Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
      • Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
      • Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
  • Dani: M5 Status
    • Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier

January 15, 2014 - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin

  • Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
  • Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion

January 8, 2014 - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ

  • Dani: API Freeze with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception

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