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= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
'''November 27, 2013''' - Andrew, Dani, Martin
 
* Dani: '''Standalone Eclipse Compiler for Java now requires Java 6''' (target can be Java ME or older releases, but host must be Java 6)
 
** Andrew will talk to OpenJDK people - might affect them for bootstrapping their compiler
 
* Dani: {{bug|421321}} - Change '''Eclipse-SourceReferences headers''' from 'git:' to 'http:'
 
** Makes sense since easier for firewalls, but would require touching all bundles :(
 
** AI Martin will comment on the bug -- handling this in the git CM provider makes more sense than converting all URI's
 
* Andrew: '''Java 6 vs Java 7''' - Platform provides Java 6, EPP requires Java 7
 
** Project Plan / Reference Platforms: Should be testing on the latest publicly available JVM. Don't want to test on Previews.
 
** Dani will switch the project plan to the "latest available" JVM updates.
 
* McQ: '''New People Coming Online''' to work on SWT, JDT, PDE.
 
** Andrew: Alex Kurtakov from Redhat also interested on Platform.
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''August 20, 2014''' - John, Alex, Dani
'''November 20, 2013''' - McQ, Martin
+
* Dani: new platform PowerPC 64-bit LE {{bug|441358 }}
* McQ: '''Silenio stepping down as SWT Lead''' - Shift to Orion
+
** maintained by IBM
** Current work is well in hand
+
** will be added to 4.4.1 as early access
 +
** Dani to send a note to cross-platform
 +
* Dani: individual made patches to support Solaris 64-bit {{bug|442266}}
 +
** we'd like to add it but don't have a machine to support it
 +
** important because our current 32-bit Solaris build will become obselete since there's no 32-bit JRE for Java 7 and beyond
 +
** Oracle should be interested since they provide both, Java and Solaris
 +
** Dani to ask Oracle
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''November 13, 2013''' - Andrew, Dani, McQ, John, Martin
 
* McQ: '''EclipseCon''' - 8 talks submitted. Ian looking for JavaScript talks.
 
* John: '''Plan for Luna'''
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''August 13, 2014''' - McQ, Alex, Dani
'''November 6, 2013''' - Andrew, Martin, Dani, McQ, John
+
* Dani: Any feedback for the [https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?planurl=http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/plans/eclipse_project_plan_4_5.xml Mars plan]?
* Martin: '''Detached Views ?''' - what are people doing with them ? - Reach out to Eric Moffat / ask on UI-Dev mailing list
+
** McQ:
** McQ: Main difference between 3.x detached views is that 3.x was just a view, in 4.x can define a layout in them
+
*** It does not cover Orion, but that is OK and like in previous release plans. Orion will most likely be moved to another top-level project soon.
** John: Always had the characteristic of being strongly coupled to a main window
+
*** We want to remove Mac OS X Universal 32-bit (all agreed)
** McQ: In 4.x, there should be a way for doing any workflow you want
+
* Dani: How to deal with requests to push our bundles to repo.eclipse.org {{bug|441530}}
* John: '''Discussion around Look and Feel in Eclipse 4'''
+
** Dani: OK for me but we won't do the work
** ide-dev BOF at ECE ; some of people's complaints look like low-hanging fruit (inactive tabs, color of drag boxes, ...)
+
** Alex: Maven needs the dependencies in the pom.xml. We don't want copy them from the manifest into the pom.xml and then maintain this. The pom should be updated when publishing the file into the Maven repo. Ideally by an automated task.
** Platform want to get out of the business defining the L&F of the EPP packages - should be a community effort
+
** Conclusion: all agree with this, i.e. we won't do the actual work and we won't "pollute" our pom files.
*** Dani: What Platform does should be usable
+
*** Martin: Diversity makes sense - consistency is important too, but you need to try things to know what can work. Today, community doesn't even know what is possible with the e4 styling, so moving forward and allowing more styles is a good thing now.
+
** John: There's the Chrome theme on Marketplace which is quite popular ... Platform could just pick some Theming and ship it
+
* McQ: '''Rumors on JDT''' - 11 active committers, 3 new in the past year - this '''is''' an Open Project
+
* John '''ECE Hackathon''' went really well, 15 committers - lots of interest :)
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''October 30, 2013''' - McQ, Dani, Andrew, Martin
+
'''August 6, 2014''' - McQ, Dani
* Andrew: Excited by {{bug|379102}} Kris Daniel '''patch for Shared Installs'''
+
* Dani: Will provide initial Mars plan next week
* Andrew: ECE Hackathon went well; "Let's make Eclipse Fun Again" BoF
+
* McQ: Hackathon next week for BlueMax cloudfoundry (Orion)
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''October 16, 2013''' - John, Dani, Andrew, Martin
 
* Dani: '''Good progress on Java 8''' - {{bug|380190}} compiler work done - going to send something
 
* Martin: {{bug|402509}} Context Menu Filtering : Paul set to 4.4 for discussion as part of UI review; Martin still interested, could help with some resources (testing, or even implementation when architectural guidance is given)
 
* '''IDE Working Group''' ([[IDE Working Group Proposal]])
 
** John: from PMC point of view, a good thing: sponsored contributors would be just like another group of contributors
 
** Some companies prefer making code contributions but for other companies this is very impractical and might work better with a [http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130603225716/leagueoflegends/images/6/66/Iffem_shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg shut up and take my money] model.
 
* Andrew: '''Krzystof Daniel for commit rights on p2'''
 
** It appears to be resolved already but we hope it doesn't have to come to this in the future.
 
** Recent studies show that timely responses within 1 day (even "we'll respond in a month") will dramatically increase engagement
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''October 9, 2013''' - John, Dani, Andrew, Martin
+
'''No meetings in July'''
* John: '''Builds''' - looks like things are under control
+
* John: '''Help System Security Bug''' - {{bug|418443}} only when help server is run on https, thus not an issue when run locally
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''October 2, 2013''' - McQ, John, Dani
 
* no discussion topics
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 25, 2013''' - McQ, Andrew, Martin, John
+
'''Jun 4, 2014''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex
* Andrew: '''Commercial Support Thread''' - Directory of consultants to effect change when needed
+
* Dani: '''RC4 Status''' looking good
** Foundation to employ developers to "do whatever is best for the Platform" : Who decides on features, and where does the funding come from ?
+
** 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
** There is precedent of Foundations employing developers... but don't think that "developers for hire" model could work
+
** Rest of the team working on docs
 +
** Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
 +
* John: '''Went over the N&N''' ... number of things went in after M7 :)
 +
** Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way
  
* Martin: '''ide-dev''' discussion
 
** A Platform team tries to come up with features and architecture that they think is valuable...
 
** but there's not the same drive towards a product / UX that a commercial product has
 
** Because of the nature how we do things, it's harder to get to a polished UX
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 18, 2013''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''Jun 11, 2014''' - Martin, McQ, Alex, John
* Mozilla: Orion vs CodeMirror as Editor - Speed of progressing on Editor features, Community size ?
+
* John: Eclipse Theming: When switching the OS Theme to dark, Eclipse should be aware
** CodeMirror addons can't be absorbed at Orion (licenses, provenance, etc.)
+
** Dark Theme is currently a tech preview
** Can we prove that the Orion editor is better ?
+
** What matters is our amount of commitment to "Development in the Cloud"
+
  
<hr/>
 
'''September 11, 2013''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
 
* John: '''RC4''' navigaton history fix ({{bug|416902}}) - review
 
* McQ: Focusing Ottawa on Orion
 
* Martin: '''[[E4/Scripting]]''' progress. Homepage has links onto Requirements, EclipseCon Europe talk and more
 
** McQ: Overlap with RAP when JavaScript is being used ?
 
* John: Krzystof Daniel of Red Hat for committer / component lead
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''September 4, 2013''' - No meeting
+
'''Jun 4, 2014''' - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex
 +
* Dani: '''RC4 Status''' looking good
 +
** 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
 +
** Rest of the team working on docs
 +
** Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
 +
* John: '''Went over the N&N''' ... number of things went in after M7 :)
 +
** Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way
  
'''August 28, 2013''' - Dani, John, Martin
 
* Dani: '''Stardust adding features to SR1''' - Planning Council exception - no objections
 
* John: '''language tooling on [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ide-dev/ ide-dev]''' - where to host the work ?
 
** Eclipse project/e4 proposed
 
** Dani: '''What's the goal?''' - make it easier adding new languages, or refactor existing projects ?
 
*** Martin interested in cross-language crossreferencing
 
**** Lua tooling / C bindings, Java/JNI, Python C bindings, TCF, CORBA generated stubs/proxies, ...
 
*** Easier to create tooling for JVM-based languages
 
*** Common support for refactoring
 
*** ...
 
** AC could be involved - makes sense for AC to be involved in a working group
 
*** In the end, it boils down to who steps up writing code
 
* Martin: short update on scripting-dev ... making progress, code has been provided, e4 proposed as a home, no feedback yet
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 21, 2013''' - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin
+
'''May 28, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin
* Dani: '''Still need the links to the torrents?''' Can we measure usage of torrents ? "Eclipse SDK" traffic is low these days anyways, would make sense for EPP only if ever
+
* Dani: '''EOL'ing the Delta Pack''' - announce now, remove during Mars - it's been obsoleted by p2 functionality
* Martin: Some traffic these days on the [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-scripting-dev/ eclipse-scripting-dev] mailing list
+
** Alex: Some of the test suite relied on the delta pack, it caused issues, OK with removing (PDE tests would need to be cleaned up)
** John: Some UI would likely be simpler with e4 now ...
+
* Dani: '''Copyright Updates''' - tool is very slow since not ported from CVS properly, can run for hours
** e4 would be a possible initial place for the project (incubator), initial basic hooks could even be put into the Platform
+
** John: Worth doing periodically but probably won't matter legally since copyright lasts for 7 years
* Luna M1 went pretty well
+
** The change is not without risk (Dani: Could schedule after the release)
 +
** McQ: Should consider updating the tool as part of that work
 +
** Alex: Has a new intern, could use this as an opportunity to join
 +
* Dani: '''RC3 status''' - last planned build - looking good, except for Platform UI, where the list of bugs is still long
 +
* McQ: Discussions about a new Eclipse.org Web-based Toplevel Project
  
<hr/>
 
'''August 14, 2013''' - Dani, Andrew
 
* Dani: no changes to release pace for Luna. For details see [[Planning_Council/August_7_2013]]
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''August 7, 2013''' - Dani, Andrew, Martin, McQ
+
'''May 14, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
* Dani - '''Moving to more frequent releases''' to be discussed at the PC today
+
* Alex: SWT GTK3 and the Endgame Rules
** McQ believes that aggregating monthly releases into a train can't work given the size of the train, so the monthly release wouldn't be useful to anyone
+
* Dani: Luna Plan Update
** Martin agrees that as a commercial adopter, stability (of the yearly train) is key: new features are interesting in one or two projects but not in the train
+
* John: New Dashboard created by the EMO
** Moving faster with the train can't be at the expense of no longer getting backports of bugfixes to those releases that I have chosen to adopt !
+
** McQ: No more SR releases, but only converge the development streams every 4 months ? - Backports could be made but adopters would have to build themselves.
+
* What causes most grief when adopting a new Platform version ?
+
** Notifications have proven most problematic .. on either Resource / project system or XML / EMF models: subtle change of behavior can have a big impact when notifications trigger other notifications
+
*** Can it be fixed with a community effort ? [Not sure, most problems are in layers on top of the platform...]
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 31, 2013''' - Dani, John, Andrew, Martin
+
'''May 7, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Alex, John, Martin
* ide-dev list : "Eclipse as an IDE" from a cross project / cross PMC point of view
+
* Martin {{bug|241957}} - GTK clipboard hang
** Tools + Equinox + Packages ...
+
** Alex: GTK guys recommended using the async API, but no time for more investigation
* The "Uber Package..."
+
** McQ: Switching a sync API to async implementation underneath can be extremely messy (need to be aware of all possible events and event sources...)
** Not recommendable. Better to improve Marketplace ... not all Train projects are on the Marketplace.
+
** McQ: If there is an idea canceling the clipboard wait ... given that the issue occurs only rarely, even a hacky solution is better than nothing
** Dani: As per the downloads page, it looks like the standard package doesn't have marketplace client ? - Martin: might be filtered; might be worth a bug if not visible.
+
* Dani: will do a plan update, hopefully this week
*** filed {{bug|414305}}
+
* Looking forward to discussions on ide-dev.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''July 24, 2013''' - McQ, Dani, John
+
'''April 30, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, McQ
* Brief planning discussion. Kepler SR1 end-game plan released. Luna M1 is August 9th.
+
* McQ: '''WB4 perspective customization''' - has it caused any issues ?
* We will resume architecture team meetings on August 7th. John to remind team next week.
+
** Martin: Dealing with detached views works differently (dragging a window fails - must drag the tab inside the window)
* John will be away Aug 1-16
+
** Dani: Saved perspectives / windows are lost on an existing workspace when moving from 3.x to 4.x
 +
*** Martin/McQ: When crossing the major version boundary, it is OK to lose state - it's not nice but acceptable
 +
** Dani: The bigger problem is, that the whole "Perspective customization" dialog is still not working as expected
 +
*** Martin: Agree with the concern, but the Perspective customization dialog wasn't ever great
 +
*** McQ: If invest work here, rather make it good than bring back the previous status quo
 +
*** Martin: Most customization done via plugin.xml / Java , don't expect end users to do a lot of customization themselves
 +
* Dani: '''M7 status'''
 +
** Defect triage under control - some items deferred to 4.5
  
'''July 17, 2013''' - McQ, Dani, John, Andrew
 
* Brief discussion of the "code smells" thread on cross-project list
 
* Overall positive discussion and we hope to see good things come out of it
 
 
'''June 26, 2013''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew, John
 
* Andrew: '''Orion Browser API Standardization'''
 
* John: '''More process around Kepler Maintenance Stream''' - 1 reviewer, similar to RC1 ?
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 19, 2013''' - John, Dani, Martin
+
'''April 23, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin
* John/Dani: '''Kepler Retrospect'''
+
* Alex - GTK2 or GTK3 as default - GTK3 it is
** JDT Versioning: Bundles and features at 3.10 for Luna, Marketing version at 4.4
+
** GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to
** Freeze Plan: Worked fine for Platform, but others on the Train didn't quite play by the rules
+
*** xulrunner - latest version not supported by swt and latest distros don't even ship standalone xulrunner
*** Dani to replace John on the Planning Council (phone meeting once per month)
+
*** webkitgtk - gtk2 version in maintenance mode, upstream consider dropping, really crashy See [https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-gtk/2014-March/001821.html]
* '''Rules of Engagement for Maintenance Releases'''
+
** GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
** JDT is in the middle of a release cycle, since doing Java 8
+
** McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
* {{Bug|411132}} '''Security Advisory''' regarding raw Javadoc - Eclipse help system not vulnerable, suggest improving the docs around "Help" setting to disallow opening external links
+
* Dani - '''Freeze Plan created'''
 +
* John - '''Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret'''
 +
*
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''June 12, 2013''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani, Andrew
+
'''April 16, 2014''' - Dani, Alex
* John: '''EclipseCon France Report''' - 2 day board meeting was good: strategic planning for what the Foundation should focus on
+
* no topics today
* Dani: 4.3 ramp-down looks good ... but other projects on the release train ship significant changes late ?!?
+
* Dani: Java 8 looking good
+
* John: Planning - e4 vs compatibility layer
+
** McQ: Because we want e4 to be a complete Platform, it makes sense to look at our own editors and see what it takes to have them run on pure e4
+
** But that's on a case-by-case basis only
+
** There's still a lot of confusion around e4
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 29, 2013''' - Dani, Andrew, Martin
+
'''April 9, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
* Dani: '''4.3 Release Update''' - looking good, some minor doc fixes only for RC4.
+
* Dani - '''Kepler SR2 and Java 8'''
* Martin: '''4.3 Standard Package''' with egit and mpc - also looking good.
+
** Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
** Minor binary diffs traced down to an "encoding" flag in the JAR format which is not significant (see {{bug|408944}})
+
** Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
** Automated comparison of SDK against EPP are still possible when unzipping all Jar's and comparing the contents (actually listing contents with unzip -v is also fine)
+
** Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
 +
** Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
  
<hr/>
+
* John - '''Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions'''
'''May 22, 2013''' - Dani, Martin, John, McQ
+
** Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
* John: '''4.3 Update''' - still 100 bugs open with 4.3 target milestone, need a reminder
+
** Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
** There's still some [[Platform_UI/Plan/4.3 | Platform/UI 4.3 Backlog]] - some keybindings, activation, about dlg; need to make some decisions what's in or what's out
+
** Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
** Don't work on the list until the last day ... for any 2 bugs fixed, there's probably 1 introduced so need to ramp down
+
** Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches
** Release review: Docs, N&N looking good
+
* Google Android announcement - IntelliJ is well integrated and polished, but Eclipse has more plugins ... the 2 concepts are somewhat at odds
+
** Just one in the large ecosystem - but need to watch for a trend of others moving away
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''May 15, 2013''' - Dani, Martin, John, McQ
 
* John: Switching focus from Orion to Eclipse Platform for the endgame - will be away first week of June
 
* Mike Milinkovich did a demo on Orion in the Zurich lab and at the Eclipse Stammtisch Zurich
 
  
<hr/>
+
'''April 2, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
'''May 8, 2013''' - Dani, Martin, John, Andrew, McQ
+
* Dani - new GTK3+ issues
* Dani: {{bug|403149}} '''Removing Tycho Dependency''' - AI John comment on the bug
+
** crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX ({{bug|431330}})
** Martin would like to see a simple Doc page somewhere that explains how to fix the versions
+
** problems with main menu ({{bug|419830}})
** Dani thinks that any serious build would update pom versions automatically as part of the build
+
* Dani - '''Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work'''
* Martin: {{bug|402509}} context menu filtering - request gentle nudge
+
** Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
* John: Will '''switch to Asterisk''' for the PMC from next week on - '''AI McQ''' update the invite
+
* Dani - need to '''approve API changes for Java 8 in M7'''
 +
** No API changes, only additions
 +
** Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
 +
** ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
 +
** There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
 +
* John - '''SWT over JavaFX'''
 +
** EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
 +
** Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
 +
** Relationship to Tom Schindl's [http://www.eclipse.org/efxclipse/index.html e(fx)clipse project] ?
 +
*** e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
 +
*** Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
 +
*** Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in {{bug|426243}}
 +
*** Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
 +
**** It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
 +
**** John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
 +
*** Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX
  
<hr/>
 
'''May 1, 2013''' - John, Dani, Andrew, McQ
 
* John: LTS now running IBM Juno maintenance builds in LTS forge. Some small details still being worked out.
 
* Dani: Gerrit can be configured to deny non-fast-forward merges. We agreed to request that all Eclipse project Gerrit repositories be configured in this way. See {{bug|402791}} for details.
 
* Dani: Request for JUnit bundle to stop re-exporting Hamcrest bundle. Hamcrest was originally part of JUnit so this was done for compatibility reasons. We agreed that we will not do this because it breaks all users of JUnit bundle. See {{bug|403676}} for details.
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 24, 2013''' - John, Dani, Martin
+
'''March 26, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
* Dani: '''Upload Freeze Plan'''
+
* John - '''EclipseCon Update'''
* Dani: '''Java 8 Update'''
+
** Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
* John: '''Pawel stepping down as Platform/Debug Lead'''
+
** IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
** Leaves Pin & Clone orphaned for next year. Working sets for expression view also not in Kepler.
+
** Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
 +
** Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
 +
** See also Blog Posts from [http://cdtdoug.ca/ Doug Schaefer] and [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/author/irbull/ Ian Bull] as well as [https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2014/news/top-5-ian-bull top 5 from Ian]
 +
* John - '''ARM port of GTK''' - any tracking items ?
 +
** Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
 +
** IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
 +
** Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
 +
** Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
 +
*** Example: {{bug|430698}}, {{bug|429237}}, {{bug|415757}}; {{bug|419855}} talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
 +
*** Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
 +
*** Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
 +
**** Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
 +
**** Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
 +
* Alex - '''Java 8 vs Java 7''' currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
 +
** In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
 +
** ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is {{bug|390889}} and we'll try to fix it for M7.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 17, 2013''' - John, Dani, Martin
+
'''March 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
* Martin: '''New Classic Package''' - Will commit SDK branding, and Egit Capability def
+
* McQ - '''Congrats on Java 8 Release''' to coincide with the Oracle release
** CSS - Should inherit proper styling from Platform (most probably OK)
+
* Dani - '''Windows 8 Support''' - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
* John: '''API Baselines''' - remind teams to set API baselines
+
** McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
* Martin: {{bug|402509}} context menu filtering - request gentle nudge
+
** Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
* John: [[Platform_UI/Plan/4.3 |Triage of Platform UI issues to be addressed]]
+
** Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation
 
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''April 3, 2013''' - McQ, Dani, John, Andrew
+
'''March 12, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, McQ, John
* John: Kepler draft plan update ready, please take a look and provide comments
+
* GTK - SWT team discussions
* We discussed EclipseCon. It was a very good event for Eclipse project. On desktop community is moving forward on Eclipse 4. There was lots of good feedback, and very little grumbling. Orion was very well represented, lots of talks and demos from several companies adopting it.
+
* John - '''preparing for Java 8 release'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 20, 2013''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Andrew
+
'''March 5, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
* Dani: '''Java 8''' - jdt.core making very good progress - almost everything compiles in the editor
+
* Dani: '''How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit''' - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
* Dani: '''pom files update''' - to be discussed in the arch call
+
* Dani: '''Windows 8 Support'''
* Martin: {{bug|402509}} '''Context Menus''' - no feedback, ping again
+
** Not listed in official plan
* Martin: {{bug|145635}} '''Pin & Clone'''
+
** No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
** Dani - the feature itself is good and makes sense, would also like it in JDT
+
** Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
** '''The UI metaphor is new and would need some testing in the Field''' - McQ would like the patch in ASAP in a way that doesn't cause more swirl to start experimenting
+
** Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
** CDT would need to adopt it, upstream changes needed
+
** AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
** Current implementation showed quite a lot of ripples and bugs
+
*** Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
*** Current impl breaks existing workflows, that's the big problem
+
* Dani: '''State of GTK 3+'''
** John: only 1 milestone left, if it appears in M7 and breaks any adopters they have little time to react;
+
** Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
*** Can loop-in JDT and CDT, but there might be others ...  
+
** Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
*** Was PTP involved in any way ? They could also be broken, they have very special requirements
+
** Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
** McQ: Do we have ownership of this work ? - If we have a clear need and a clear owner working on it we could give it a try
+
** Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
** '''AI Martin''' (1) Clarify with CDT why they didn't like the feature and what are their plans; all the rest comes after that eg PTP, Pawel, can it be done in a non-breaking way
+
** On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
* John: {{bug|402912}} '''Significant Memory Leak in M6''' fixed this week: noticable if eclipse running for a long time
+
** Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
** Workaround for M6: Turn off Workbench Autosave feature by setting it to 0
+
* Alex: '''GTK 3 in Mars'''
** ''AI Post to cross-project'' - people doing demos at Eclipsecon might want to use the workaround
+
** Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
* Martin: {{bug|397896}} '''New Classic Package''' - initial package done but unusable while the SDK branding bundle's contents is not migrated
+
** RHEL 5 would no longer work
** Martin will continue pushing for this to happen - fallback would be not
+
** Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI
** Not much risk in judging whether it's good or not, only binary diff needed
+
* John: {{bug|380325}} '''Java 7 filesystem fragment'''
+
** McQ do we know performance implications, could we get rid of the native bundles ?
+
** Martin would like to have the fragment in all builds, to make it easier to test performance etc implications
+
* Martin: {{bug|403589}} '''eclipse.inf'''
+
** Different binary bits depending on distribution channel is bad ... Tycho removed
+
** Defect in post-processing (why does it add eclipse.inf) or defect in bundle preparation (why isn't eclipse.inf in there) ?
+
** Maybe related to pack200 conditioning - Martin thinks that eclipse.inf was used in the past as a marker to know whether pack200 conditioning has happened ... now downstream aggregator conditions and adds eclipse.inf
+
** '''AI John investigate'''
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''March 13, 2013''' - McQ, John, Martin, Dani
+
'''February 26, 2014''' - Alex, John, Martin, McQ
* Andrew: '''{{bug|397896}} final throughts on the EPP package'''
+
* John: '''Orion Release''' this week
** Move forward with [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=397896#c17 ]
+
** Testing - could find someone if it's just "use during the test pass"
+
** Q: Can the EPP build be done frequently so it's available 1 week before the milestone for testing ?
+
* Martin: '''{{bug|402509}} context menu filtering'''
+
** Would like to get some advice from Platform on the approach; some trajectory of a solution moving forward
+
** Not a must-have for Kepler, but would like to see where this is heading
+
** '''AI McQ''' find Platform folk to discuss this
+
* John: '''Eclipse 4 API Status'''
+
** Publishing a "usable subset" of the former provisional API as final: model, core services; consume injection
+
** Allows building a real Eclipse 4 App now on API
+
*** Mostly clean-up, documentation; removing some bad stuff
+
*** Writing an App on Kepler E4 API might actually be able to run on Juno
+
** Some of the advanced stuff remains provisional for now, eg define injection
+
* John: '''Plan Update''' - No permission to update in the PMI
+
* McQ: '''CBI''' / Bad Launcher
+
** Have an idea that doing some little extra work after the CBI build might be good enough for now
+
** HP-UX CBI Build doesn't start out of the box (will likely stay a known issue for M6)
+
* Martin: '''{{bug|380325}} Java7 EFS Plugin''': Build ?
+
  
<hr/>
+
* Alex: '''Eclipse on ARM64'''
'''March 6, 2013''' - McQ, John, Martin, Andrew
+
** Launcher and swt at first
* Martin: '''{{bug|402509}} context menu filtering'''
+
** Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
** AI Martin ask engineers document what we're doing today
+
** John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
* Martin: '''{{bug|397896}} EPP vs Classic''' - how to proceed
+
*** Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
** Martin's recent findings on Marketplace
+
*** At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
*** There's p2, Marketplace, Packages in the Open but they are only parts of the solution
+
** Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
*** There's commercial installers from EclipseSource (Yoxos), Genuitec, IBM
+
*** John: p2 simplified UI (eg Webtools Server Adaptors; Mylyn)
+
** What's missing ? David too booked ?
+
* John: '''CBI Builds in Kepler''' - SDK in good shape but repo and Equinox downloadpage not quite right yet, some might take until M6
+
* John: '''Delete old Platform/UI Branches''' - any PMC Policy ? No, convert branches to tags
+
* John: '''API Freeze next week''' - some (modest) new Eclipse 4 API's
+
** McQ recommends going for a "complete, but minimal subset of what people will want to do", rather than too many convenience methods
+
** John: Some API has been provisional for 3 years - can't make wholesale changes now for the fun of it
+
*** May phase in some changes by adding @noreference rather than deleting stuff
+
*** In some cases there's pressure to use interfaces rather than classes, in order to be able and leverage Java 8 constructs
+
* Orion - anybody going to JSConf ?
+
  
<hr/>
+
* Dani: Update on '''GTK 3+ issue''' - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
'''February 27, 2013''' - John, Andrew, Dani
+
** Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
* Nothing noteworthy
+
** McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
 +
*** If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
 +
*** Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
 +
*** Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it
  
<hr/>
 
'''February 20, 2013''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Andrew
 
* John: '''Orion Release Review''', please give feedback
 
 
<hr/>
 
'''February 13, 2013'''
 
* {{bug|156134}} re-exporting debug dependencies
 
 
<hr/>
 
'''February 6, 2013''' - John, Dani, Martin
 
* John: '''M5a and SR2 RC4'''
 
* John: Pawel and Platform / Debug work (Pin & Clone)
 
** Only adopt when it's really ready and satisfies all criteria, otherwise not into Kepler
 
** Maybe pull out Debug plugins into a feature of their own ?
 
 
<hr/>
 
'''January 30, 2013''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin, Andrew
 
* John: '''SR2 RC3''' looking good - want to know about any remaining issues
 
* Dani: '''Java 8 Update''' - Markus Keller will move from JDT UI to JDT Core, taking over JSR-308
 
* John: '''NODE Dependency in Orion (exempt pre-req)'''
 
** Not shipping NODE ourselves, pushing to NODE package manager instead (or clone from git)
 
** Andrew: Is it a workswith ?
 
** Martin: Is there any overlap with the Java portion ?
 
*** The server code is completely distinct from Java, but the same client can interact with both
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 24, 2013''' -  
+
'''February 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
* Martin: '''4.3 and 3.8 dual-stream''' - [http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=webtools#themes_and_priorities Webtools project plan]
+
* Dani: '''Silenio to work on GTK issue?'''
** egit, mylyn, dtp have been doing both n + n-1 for a long time
+
* John: '''GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation'''
** Technically, running on both should be possible if Platform API is used (except for the changes in Theming)
+
* John: '''e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools'''
** The Eclipse Community needs to advance the latest (4.3)
+
** Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
** IBM product teams have been told not to forward at all if they can't forward to 4.x - shipping on 4.2
+
** Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
** John: Having '''wider ranges of tolerance''' is something we should be able to do (otherwise our plugin system is failing)
+
** Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
** John: Java8 will be the first killer feature in 4.x
+
** John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
* Dani: '''Java 8'''
+
** Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
** Will provide feature patches as soon as it makes sense - early draft, participating in expert group
+
*** If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
** Want to have the compiler and editor ready when Java 8 goes GA - initial refactoring etc in SR1 - full feature set in the next release
+
** Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE
* John: '''CBI update'''
+
** Consider switch after M5
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 17, 2013''' - McQ, John, Martin
+
'''February 5, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
* John: '''{{bug|397896}} EPP vs Classic'''
+
* Dani: '''Confcall Numbers:''' Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
** Could volunteer to own the EPP package from Platform POV
+
* Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
** Then Wayne would own the decision of RCP/RAP vs Classic - what's the difference, keep both or unify
+
* Alex: Testing on modern Linux
* John: '''Test Failures on I-Builds'''
+
** Move away tests that have been failing for 9 months
+
** Dani: Most tests are actually down to 0 failures
+
* John: '''CBI / Maven Builds'''
+
** Appears to be fragile at the moment - Maven .micro releases are breaking the build!
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 10, 2013''' - McQ, John, Dani, Martin
+
'''January 22, 2014''' - John, Dani, Alex, Martin
* McQ: '''CBI''' - Switching Platform build to CBI for SR2 is not doable
+
* John, Alex: '''New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora'''
** Want to make CBI work for Juno since it's the LTS stream
+
** Alex been looking at Browser
** CBI SDK builds are good at this point, it's only a couple of minor issues (shape of repos, download page, ...
+
** Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
** When to switch to CBI in the Kepler Stream ? - Proposal do do it immediately
+
** Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
* CBI patches waiting for Platform to pick up
+
*** Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
 +
*** Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
 +
* Dani: '''M5 Status'''
 +
** Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
'''January 3, 2013''' - McQ, Andrew, John, Dani
+
'''January 15, 2014''' - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin
* Andrew will recommend good conferences to promote Orion
+
* Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
 +
* Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''January 8, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ
 +
* Dani: '''API Freeze''' with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception
  
 
= Archive =
 
= Archive =
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
 
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]

Revision as of 04:19, 22 August 2014

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every wednesday at 10.30am EST.

Meeting Minutes

August 20, 2014 - John, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: new platform PowerPC 64-bit LE bug 441358
    • maintained by IBM
    • will be added to 4.4.1 as early access
    • Dani to send a note to cross-platform
  • Dani: individual made patches to support Solaris 64-bit bug 442266
    • we'd like to add it but don't have a machine to support it
    • important because our current 32-bit Solaris build will become obselete since there's no 32-bit JRE for Java 7 and beyond
    • Oracle should be interested since they provide both, Java and Solaris
    • Dani to ask Oracle

August 13, 2014 - McQ, Alex, Dani

  • Dani: Any feedback for the Mars plan?
    • McQ:
      • It does not cover Orion, but that is OK and like in previous release plans. Orion will most likely be moved to another top-level project soon.
      • We want to remove Mac OS X Universal 32-bit (all agreed)
  • Dani: How to deal with requests to push our bundles to repo.eclipse.org bug 441530
    • Dani: OK for me but we won't do the work
    • Alex: Maven needs the dependencies in the pom.xml. We don't want copy them from the manifest into the pom.xml and then maintain this. The pom should be updated when publishing the file into the Maven repo. Ideally by an automated task.
    • Conclusion: all agree with this, i.e. we won't do the actual work and we won't "pollute" our pom files.

August 6, 2014 - McQ, Dani

  • Dani: Will provide initial Mars plan next week



No meetings in July



Jun 4, 2014 - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: RC4 Status looking good
    • 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
    • Rest of the team working on docs
    • Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
  • John: Went over the N&N ... number of things went in after M7 :)
    • Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way



Jun 11, 2014 - Martin, McQ, Alex, John

  • John: Eclipse Theming: When switching the OS Theme to dark, Eclipse should be aware
    • Dark Theme is currently a tech preview



Jun 4, 2014 - Dani, John, Martin, McQ, Alex

  • Dani: RC4 Status looking good
    • 1 bug in JDT, 1 bug in Debug and 1 in Platform/UI on Linux being investigated ("Show In" no longer working)
    • Rest of the team working on docs
    • Alex: On Ubuntu, might want to disable UBUNTU_MENUPROXY ... this is causing a lot of issues
  • John: Went over the N&N ... number of things went in after M7 :)
    • Dark Theme - Good story in place combining the old 3.x Presentation API with the new E4 (CSS) technology in a good way



May 28, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin

  • Dani: EOL'ing the Delta Pack - announce now, remove during Mars - it's been obsoleted by p2 functionality
    • Alex: Some of the test suite relied on the delta pack, it caused issues, OK with removing (PDE tests would need to be cleaned up)
  • Dani: Copyright Updates - tool is very slow since not ported from CVS properly, can run for hours
    • John: Worth doing periodically but probably won't matter legally since copyright lasts for 7 years
    • The change is not without risk (Dani: Could schedule after the release)
    • McQ: Should consider updating the tool as part of that work
    • Alex: Has a new intern, could use this as an opportunity to join
  • Dani: RC3 status - last planned build - looking good, except for Platform UI, where the list of bugs is still long
  • McQ: Discussions about a new Eclipse.org Web-based Toplevel Project



May 14, 2014 - Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Alex: SWT GTK3 and the Endgame Rules
  • Dani: Luna Plan Update
  • John: New Dashboard created by the EMO

May 7, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Martin bug 241957 - GTK clipboard hang
    • Alex: GTK guys recommended using the async API, but no time for more investigation
    • McQ: Switching a sync API to async implementation underneath can be extremely messy (need to be aware of all possible events and event sources...)
    • McQ: If there is an idea canceling the clipboard wait ... given that the issue occurs only rarely, even a hacky solution is better than nothing
  • Dani: will do a plan update, hopefully this week

April 30, 2014 - Dani, Martin, McQ

  • McQ: WB4 perspective customization - has it caused any issues ?
    • Martin: Dealing with detached views works differently (dragging a window fails - must drag the tab inside the window)
    • Dani: Saved perspectives / windows are lost on an existing workspace when moving from 3.x to 4.x
      • Martin/McQ: When crossing the major version boundary, it is OK to lose state - it's not nice but acceptable
    • Dani: The bigger problem is, that the whole "Perspective customization" dialog is still not working as expected
      • Martin: Agree with the concern, but the Perspective customization dialog wasn't ever great
      • McQ: If invest work here, rather make it good than bring back the previous status quo
      • Martin: Most customization done via plugin.xml / Java , don't expect end users to do a lot of customization themselves
  • Dani: M7 status
    • Defect triage under control - some items deferred to 4.5



April 23, 2014 - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin

  • Alex - GTK2 or GTK3 as default - GTK3 it is
    • GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to
      • xulrunner - latest version not supported by swt and latest distros don't even ship standalone xulrunner
      • webkitgtk - gtk2 version in maintenance mode, upstream consider dropping, really crashy See [1]
    • GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
    • McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
  • Dani - Freeze Plan created
  • John - Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret

April 16, 2014 - Dani, Alex

  • no topics today

April 9, 2014 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani - Kepler SR2 and Java 8
    • Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
    • Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
    • Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
    • Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
  • John - Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions
    • Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
    • Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
    • Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
    • Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches

April 2, 2014 - Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Dani - new GTK3+ issues
    • crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX (bug 431330)
    • problems with main menu (bug 419830)
  • Dani - Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work
    • Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
  • Dani - need to approve API changes for Java 8 in M7
    • No API changes, only additions
    • Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
    • ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
    • There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
  • John - SWT over JavaFX
    • EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
    • Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
    • Relationship to Tom Schindl's e(fx)clipse project ?
      • e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
      • Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
      • Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in bug 426243
      • Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
        • It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
        • John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
      • Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX



March 26, 2014 - John, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • John - EclipseCon Update
    • Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
    • IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
    • Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
    • Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
    • See also Blog Posts from Doug Schaefer and Ian Bull as well as top 5 from Ian
  • John - ARM port of GTK - any tracking items ?
    • Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
    • IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
    • Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
    • Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
      • Example: bug 430698, bug 429237, bug 415757; bug 419855 talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
      • Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
      • Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
        • Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
        • Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
  • Alex - Java 8 vs Java 7 currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
    • In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
    • ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is bug 390889 and we'll try to fix it for M7.

March 19, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • McQ - Congrats on Java 8 Release to coincide with the Oracle release
  • Dani - Windows 8 Support - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
    • McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
    • Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
    • Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation

March 12, 2014 - Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • GTK - SWT team discussions
  • John - preparing for Java 8 release

March 5, 2014 - John, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
  • Dani: Windows 8 Support
    • Not listed in official plan
    • No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
    • Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
    • Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
    • AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
      • Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
  • Dani: State of GTK 3+
    • Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
    • Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
    • Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
    • Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
    • On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
    • Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
  • Alex: GTK 3 in Mars
    • Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
    • RHEL 5 would no longer work
    • Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI

February 26, 2014 - Alex, John, Martin, McQ

  • John: Orion Release this week
  • Alex: Eclipse on ARM64
    • Launcher and swt at first
    • Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
    • John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
      • Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
      • At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
    • Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
  • Dani: Update on GTK 3+ issue - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
    • Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
    • McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
      • If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
      • Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
      • Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it



February 19, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin, John

  • Dani: Silenio to work on GTK issue?
  • John: GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation
  • John: e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools
    • Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
    • Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
    • Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
    • John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
    • Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
      • If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
    • Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE

February 5, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Confcall Numbers: Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
  • Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
  • Alex: Testing on modern Linux

January 22, 2014 - John, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • John, Alex: New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora
    • Alex been looking at Browser
    • Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
    • Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
      • Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
      • Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
  • Dani: M5 Status
    • Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier

January 15, 2014 - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin

  • Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
  • Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion

January 8, 2014 - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ

  • Dani: API Freeze with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception

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