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Difference between revisions of "Eclipse/PMC"
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= Meeting Minutes = | = Meeting Minutes = | ||
| − | ''' | + | '''April 23, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin |
| − | * | + | * Alex - GTK2 or GTK3 as default - GTK3 it is |
| − | * | + | ** GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to |
| − | ** | + | *** xulrunner - latest version not supported by swt and latest distros don't even ship standalone xulrunner |
| − | * | + | *** webkitgtk - gtk2 version in maintenance mode, upstream consider dropping, really crashy See [https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-gtk/2014-March/001821.html] |
| − | ** | + | ** GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there) |
| − | ** | + | ** McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3) |
| − | + | * Dani - '''Freeze Plan created''' | |
| − | ** | + | * John - '''Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret''' |
| − | + | * | |
| − | * | + | |
| − | * John | + | |
| − | * | + | |
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
<hr/> | <hr/> | ||
| − | ''' | + | '''April 16, 2014''' - Dani, Alex |
| − | * | + | * no topics today |
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
<hr/> | <hr/> | ||
| − | ''' | + | '''April 9, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Alex |
| − | * | + | * Dani - '''Kepler SR2 and Java 8''' |
| − | + | ** Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages. | |
| + | ** Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates | ||
| + | ** Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch" | ||
| + | ** Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt. | ||
| + | * John - '''Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions''' | ||
| + | ** Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons | ||
| + | ** Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion) | ||
| + | ** Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things | ||
| + | ** Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches | ||
<hr/> | <hr/> | ||
| − | ''' | + | |
| − | * | + | '''April 2, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin |
| − | ** | + | * Dani - new GTK3+ issues |
| − | ** | + | ** crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX ({{bug|431330}}) |
| − | * | + | ** problems with main menu ({{bug|419830}}) |
| + | * Dani - '''Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work''' | ||
| + | ** Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log. | ||
| + | * Dani - need to '''approve API changes for Java 8 in M7''' | ||
| + | ** No API changes, only additions | ||
| + | ** Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI | ||
| + | ** ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved | ||
| + | ** There were no objections i.e. changes were approved | ||
| + | * John - '''SWT over JavaFX''' | ||
| + | ** EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work | ||
| + | ** Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project | ||
| + | ** Relationship to Tom Schindl's [http://www.eclipse.org/efxclipse/index.html e(fx)clipse project] ? | ||
| + | *** e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ... | ||
| + | *** Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it | ||
| + | *** Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in {{bug|426243}} | ||
| + | *** Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler | ||
| + | **** It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms | ||
| + | **** John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it | ||
| + | *** Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX | ||
| + | |||
<hr/> | <hr/> | ||
| − | ''' | + | '''March 26, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex |
| − | * | + | * John - '''EclipseCon Update''' |
| − | ** | + | ** Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions |
| − | * | + | ** IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects |
| − | ** Orion | + | ** Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd |
| − | ** | + | ** Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux |
| − | * | + | ** See also Blog Posts from [http://cdtdoug.ca/ Doug Schaefer] and [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/author/irbull/ Ian Bull] as well as [https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2014/news/top-5-ian-bull top 5 from Ian] |
| − | ** | + | * John - '''ARM port of GTK''' - any tracking items ? |
| − | ** | + | ** Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too |
| − | ** | + | ** IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT |
| − | + | ** Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case... | |
| − | ** | + | ** Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures |
| − | ** | + | *** Example: {{bug|430698}}, {{bug|429237}}, {{bug|415757}}; {{bug|419855}} talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver |
| − | ** | + | *** Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware |
| − | *** | + | *** Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!) |
| − | *** | + | **** Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox |
| − | ** | + | **** Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security |
| − | * ''' | + | * Alex - '''Java 8 vs Java 7''' currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's |
| − | ** | + | ** In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too) |
| + | ** ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is {{bug|390889}} and we'll try to fix it for M7. | ||
<hr/> | <hr/> | ||
| − | ''' | + | '''March 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ |
| − | * McQ | + | * McQ - '''Congrats on Java 8 Release''' to coincide with the Oracle release |
| − | * | + | * Dani - '''Windows 8 Support''' - any answer to John's E-Mail ? |
| − | * | + | ** McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it |
| − | * | + | ** Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project |
| − | ** | + | ** Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation |
| − | ** | + | |
| + | <hr/> | ||
| + | '''March 12, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, McQ, John | ||
| + | * GTK - SWT team discussions | ||
| + | * John - '''preparing for Java 8 release''' | ||
<hr/> | <hr/> | ||
| − | ''' | + | '''March 5, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex |
| − | * | + | * Dani: '''How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit''' - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline |
| − | ** | + | * Dani: '''Windows 8 Support''' |
| − | ** | + | ** Not listed in official plan |
| − | * | + | ** No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM |
| − | *** | + | ** Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ? |
| − | *** | + | ** Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues |
| + | ** AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev | ||
| + | *** Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today. | ||
| + | * Dani: '''State of GTK 3+''' | ||
| + | ** Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything | ||
| + | ** Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version | ||
| + | ** Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for | ||
| + | ** Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser | ||
| + | ** On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse | ||
| + | ** Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side) | ||
| + | * Alex: '''GTK 3 in Mars''' | ||
| + | ** Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk | ||
| + | ** RHEL 5 would no longer work | ||
| + | ** Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI | ||
<hr/> | <hr/> | ||
| − | ''' | + | '''February 26, 2014''' - Alex, John, Martin, McQ |
| − | * | + | * John: '''Orion Release''' this week |
| − | ** | + | |
| − | ** | + | * Alex: '''Eclipse on ARM64''' |
| − | *** | + | ** Launcher and swt at first |
| − | ** | + | ** Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling |
| − | * | + | ** John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first |
| − | * | + | *** Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job |
| − | * | + | *** At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time |
| − | ** | + | ** Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants |
| − | ** | + | |
| + | * Dani: Update on '''GTK 3+ issue''' - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished | ||
| + | ** Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part | ||
| + | ** McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen | ||
| + | *** If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead... | ||
| + | *** Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details | ||
| + | *** Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it | ||
| + | |||
<hr/> | <hr/> | ||
| − | ''' | + | '''February 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John |
| − | * | + | * Dani: '''Silenio to work on GTK issue?''' |
| − | ** | + | * John: '''GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation''' |
| + | * John: '''e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools''' | ||
| + | ** Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ... | ||
| + | ** Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE | ||
| + | ** Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1 | ||
| + | ** John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps | ||
| + | ** Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate? | ||
| + | *** If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ? | ||
| + | ** Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE | ||
| + | |||
| + | <hr/> | ||
| + | '''February 5, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex | ||
| + | * Dani: '''Confcall Numbers:''' Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP | ||
| + | * Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects | ||
| + | * Alex: Testing on modern Linux | ||
| + | |||
| + | <hr/> | ||
| + | '''January 22, 2014''' - John, Dani, Alex, Martin | ||
| + | * John, Alex: '''New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora''' | ||
| + | ** Alex been looking at Browser | ||
| + | ** Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday | ||
| + | ** Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README | ||
| + | *** Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky | ||
| + | *** Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only | ||
| + | * Dani: '''M5 Status''' | ||
| + | ** Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier | ||
| + | |||
| + | <hr/> | ||
| + | '''January 15, 2014''' - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin | ||
| + | * Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4 | ||
| + | * Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion | ||
| + | |||
<hr/> | <hr/> | ||
| + | '''January 8, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ | ||
| + | * Dani: '''API Freeze''' with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception | ||
= Archive = | = Archive = | ||
| + | * [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]] | ||
| + | * [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]] | ||
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]] | * [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]] | ||
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]] | * [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]] | ||
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]] | * [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]] | ||
Revision as of 11:14, 23 April 2014
Documents
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
Meeting Schedule
The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every wednesday at 10.30am EST.
Meeting Minutes
April 23, 2014 - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin
- Alex - GTK2 or GTK3 as default - GTK3 it is
- GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to
- xulrunner - latest version not supported by swt and latest distros don't even ship standalone xulrunner
- webkitgtk - gtk2 version in maintenance mode, upstream consider dropping, really crashy See [1]
- GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
- McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
- GTK2 - more stable on old systems but no usable browser due to
- Dani - Freeze Plan created
- John - Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret
April 16, 2014 - Dani, Alex
- no topics today
April 9, 2014 - Dani, Martin, Alex
- Dani - Kepler SR2 and Java 8
- Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
- Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
- Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
- Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
- John - Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions
- Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
- Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
- Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
- Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches
April 2, 2014 - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
- Dani - new GTK3+ issues
- crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX (bug 431330)
- problems with main menu (bug 419830)
- Dani - Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work
- Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
- Dani - need to approve API changes for Java 8 in M7
- No API changes, only additions
- Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
- ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
- There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
- John - SWT over JavaFX
- EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
- Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
- Relationship to Tom Schindl's e(fx)clipse project ?
- e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
- Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
- Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in bug 426243
- Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
- It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
- John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
- Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX
March 26, 2014 - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
- John - EclipseCon Update
- Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
- IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
- Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
- Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
- See also Blog Posts from Doug Schaefer and Ian Bull as well as top 5 from Ian
- John - ARM port of GTK - any tracking items ?
- Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
- IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
- Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
- Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
- Example: bug 430698, bug 429237, bug 415757; bug 419855 talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
- Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
- Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
- Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
- Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
- Alex - Java 8 vs Java 7 currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
- In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
- ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is bug 390889 and we'll try to fix it for M7.
March 19, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
- McQ - Congrats on Java 8 Release to coincide with the Oracle release
- Dani - Windows 8 Support - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
- McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
- Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
- Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation
March 12, 2014 - Alex, Martin, McQ, John
- GTK - SWT team discussions
- John - preparing for Java 8 release
March 5, 2014 - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
- Dani: How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
- Dani: Windows 8 Support
- Not listed in official plan
- No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
- Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
- Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
- AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
- Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
- Dani: State of GTK 3+
- Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
- Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
- Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
- Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
- On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
- Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
- Alex: GTK 3 in Mars
- Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
- RHEL 5 would no longer work
- Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI
February 26, 2014 - Alex, John, Martin, McQ
- John: Orion Release this week
- Alex: Eclipse on ARM64
- Launcher and swt at first
- Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
- John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
- Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
- At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
- Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
- Dani: Update on GTK 3+ issue - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
- Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
- McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
- If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
- Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
- Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it
February 19, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
- Dani: Silenio to work on GTK issue?
- John: GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation
- John: e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools
- Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
- Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
- Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
- John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
- Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
- If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
- Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE
February 5, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
- Dani: Confcall Numbers: Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
- Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
- Alex: Testing on modern Linux
January 22, 2014 - John, Dani, Alex, Martin
- John, Alex: New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora
- Alex been looking at Browser
- Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
- Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
- Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
- Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
- Dani: M5 Status
- Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier
January 15, 2014 - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin
- Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
- Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion
January 8, 2014 - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ
- Dani: API Freeze with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception